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Episode 450: Ahead of Super Bowl LIX, John Eisenberg Chronicles the Long Journey of the Black Quarterback
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John Eisenberg grew up surrounded by books. It was no surprise then that he wanted to write them one day. He has written eleven, his latest being Rocket Men: The Black Quarterbacks Who Revolutionized Pro Football.
Sponsor: The Power of Narrative Conference. Use CNF15 at checkout for a 15% discount.
Newsletter: Rage Against the Algorithm
Show notes: brendanomeara.com
Support: Patreon.com/cnfpod
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Transcript
Fred Durst and Steve Prefontaine
00:00:00
Speaker
Does it bring you peace to know that Fred Durst did it all for the Nookie, the front runner, the life of Steve Prefontaine is available for pre-order. I've gotten some nice notes from people who beat that link like it owed them money. You can visit the bookseller of your choice, palsbookshop.org. Straight to the publisher, HarperCollins, Barnes and Noble, they're having a pretty cool sale for their members. It's like through this Friday, so you gotta hustle. But if you're a member, you can't beat 25% off.
Importance of Pre-orders for Authors
00:00:29
Speaker
unless you ask for it for like your birthday or something. You get it for free. In which case you have free money and you can buy more of them. $32.99, $65.98, $98.97. I'm just spitballing here. Everything helps. Every author you know under the sun pegs for pre-orders. It's just the game. It's the name of the game, man.
Podcast Promotion and Introduction
00:00:49
Speaker
And you only have so many dollars at your disposal, so I've realized. It's a big ask, but I'll just say, consider it.
00:00:56
Speaker
and promotional support for the podcast. let's let's Let's go to, let's do the NPR voice. Promotional support for the podcast is brought to you by the Power of Narrative Conference, celebrating its 26th year. On the last weekend of March 28th and 29th, I can't, I can't do that. Three to 400 journalists from around the world are coming. Keynote speakers, Susan Orlean, Connie Schultz, Dan Zach.
00:01:20
Speaker
Connie freaking Chung, listeners of this podcast, get 15% off enrollment if you use the code CNF15. It's coming. It's coming up. To learn more, visit combeyond.bu.edu and use that CNF15 code much better. It's more than just a book about someone, when it's your book about someone.
00:01:52
Speaker
Oh hey CNFers, this is the Creative Nonfiction Pocket. It's a show where I speak to tellers of true tales about the true tales they tell. I'm your unreliable narrator in the voice of a generation. Self-proclaimed, Brendan O'Mara, hey hey.
John Eisenberg and 'Rocket Men' Discussion
00:02:06
Speaker
Well, today we have John Eisenberg, who is the author of 11 books of non-fiction. That's right, a palindromic number. His latest being Rocket Men, The Black Quarterbacks, who revolutionized pro football.
00:02:21
Speaker
I had had this book in my queue for more than a year forgot about it John then followed up not too long ago and I was like okay I'm gonna make a point of reading this get it in the pile then we were granted the second meeting of two black quarterbacks in the Super Bowl Patrick Mahomes and Jalen Hurts the first meeting ever being between these same two quarterbacks two Super Bowls ago so it was time for any emergency podcast If I had you know sound effects, I would just have sirens going off right now, but we're not that big of an operation. It really is a stunning book that details the institutional racism of the NFL, which could just be extrapolated to the institutional racism of this country, but we won't go there for this.
00:03:07
Speaker
The NFL posited that black men were intellectually inferior and unable to play quarterback at the level of white quarterbacks. Yeah, real classy. When black quarterbacks did get that rare opportunity to play under center, they were given such short leashes that if they didn't play perfectly,
00:03:25
Speaker
their careers were likely over. Like they might even just have like three or four games, and if they just didn't play particularly well, they'd get benched, and then odds are they weren they weren't getting re resigned. Again, they would often have to change positions. They would be like, you can play wide receiver or running back, but we just don't think you can handle the bandwidth that it takes to be a quarterback.
00:03:44
Speaker
Whereas a white quarterback might get several seasons and several opportunities to prove his worth. Have things changed? Well, at the quarterback position you might say yes. Things have finally changed where nearly close, I would say close to half of the league's starting quarterbacks are are black men.
00:04:04
Speaker
But the same old issue is there for head coaches. Look no farther than Antonio Pearson, Gerard Mayo, who were fired after one season with the Raiders and the Patriots, this after given some of the shittiest rosters to deal with, only to be replaced by Pete Carroll, who's a soon-to-be 74-year-old white man, and Mike Frable, one of the most in-demand white coaches. I suspect they'll get several years to build the culture.
00:04:30
Speaker
But that's another book, and John is not willing to tackle that one. He had his plate full with this one, and someone else can write the head coach book. But we're not here to talk about that aforementioned as-of-yet-unwritten book.
Engagement and Media Strategies
00:04:42
Speaker
Show notes to this episode and more at brenthedomera.com. Hey, there you'll find show notes to this episode and more anytime I've been getting the social media itch. The rash of it.
00:04:53
Speaker
Ew. I go to my website noodle around with either a blog post or a post to my anti-social media feed. go and Go check it out. I literally treat it like a fake social media feed with a time stamp and everything. I don't know if it's fun or sick. Also, sign up for the monthly rage. Look at the algorithm newsletter where I spin some hot tracks.
00:05:16
Speaker
Not really, but it's a fun place to share some resources. I think that will be of value to you. Certainly things that appeal to my taste over the month and i i I then lay them out before you. And especially cool as a CNF in happy hour. No one does that.
00:05:33
Speaker
Go get it. First of the month, no spam. As far as I can tell, you can't beat it. Also, reviews and ratings. I never go out of style. I haven't asked for them in a while, and I feel like if I don't ask, then I never get them. So if you have a moment, maybe write a kind review for Apple Podcasts. I always read them on when I get new ones. Or leave a rating on Spotify. This way, the wayward CNF-er might give this humble little show, which turns 12 in a few weeks, a chance.
00:05:59
Speaker
So John Eisenberg, he grew up in Dallas, Texas, went to U Penn, so he's wicked smart, as my public school cronies from upon a quite high would say, and he became a newspaper reporter and a columnist at the, or for the, depends, I don't know, Baltimore Sun, among other gigs.
Eisenberg's Career Journey
00:06:16
Speaker
He's covered the Super Bowl, Olympics, Cal Ripken's Iron Man streak. Cal Ripken was my favorite player growing up and why I wore the number eight and why many people of my generation loved the number eight.
00:06:28
Speaker
I also loved Nomar. Nomar Garcia Parrots and stuff. I mean, could could there have been a better name for a Boston Red Sox fan to have Nomar as your shortstop? I played shortstop and I should have been a catcher, but that's neither here nor there. But I loved Nomar. Oh, he's a rookie in 96. Oh man, he was such a badass.
00:06:52
Speaker
um Where was I? a John Eisenberg, the guest. ah He has a pretty cool sub-stack, the bird tapes about historic Baltimore Orioles baseball interviews. And right now, you're gonna hear from him, parting a shot at the end about where did all the fun websites go. And for now, let's settle in. This is a great conversation with me and John Eisenberg.
00:07:31
Speaker
Well, I grew up sort of in a reading family. I mean, my mother, my first job was in a bookstore. My mother owned a bookstore in Dallas, Texas. ah My first job was sitting on the cash register. And so, ah you know, I grew up with books in my hand.
00:07:47
Speaker
And it was you know sort of a reading environment, so I always loved that. And then I went to work as a journalist out of college, and I was writing for newspapers for years, but I never lost that sort of yearning. Let me give this a try. you know I would love to write a book someday. I set it as a goal. And so it was in the 90s. I was writing a column for The Baltimore Sun.
00:08:06
Speaker
And, uh, which was great. I was going around the world covering great events and, and, uh, it was a glory days of newspapers, really. And, uh, it was a great job. And, uh, but I never, I never lost that bug. So I was just looking for a story, you know, and I was covering the Kentucky Derby one year. And, uh, a horse, a totally obscure horse by the name of Lil E.T. wins the Kentucky Derby in 1992.
00:08:35
Speaker
And the son said, all right, come back from Kentucky with that story, because it turned out he was told in New Freedom, Pennsylvania, which is just over the PA a line from Maryland and 30 minutes from Baltimore from my house. So it was like they said, tell tell that story. So I start reporting out that story. And it's unbelievable. The story is unbelievable.
00:08:57
Speaker
You know, the horses fold, and you know, modest pedigree. No one's ever heard of any any of the bloodlines. And he he gets sick. The horse is sick as a yearling, almost dies, and has this terrible intestinal problem. Then gets sold for $3,000, which is, you know, that is chump change in the horse racing business. And this is years ago.
00:09:19
Speaker
You know there's that and then he he gets he gets sold and then he gets pin hooked which people don't know is basically it's like a used car dealer you know that they buy them and they're gonna turn them around and sell it and so.
00:09:34
Speaker
this is a This is a horse that wins the Kentucky Derby. So I thought, well, this is so good. It's just a rags to riches story. And so I wrote the story for the sun and introduced myself to all the principles, the owner, the trainer, the breeder, the jockey, it was Pat Day, famous Hall of Fame jockey. And so once I finished and turn this story in, I said, now that could be a book.
00:09:57
Speaker
that could be a book. And so, you know, just dig way deeper into it. And I just I had no agent, I had no anything. I did have a profile. I mean, I was writing a column for a major newspaper, but ah so I found the publisher University Press of Kentucky, right place. They liked it immediately and said, you know, I didn't have to write. I mean, I wrote one chapter.
00:10:23
Speaker
as you do when you're selling a book, you don't have to write the whole book in nonfiction. So ah and they said, we'll we'll take it. And so it paid me a little bit of money and off I went and I did it strictly on the side from my job. I mean, I was covering the World Cup of Soccer.
00:10:39
Speaker
I'm covering you know the World Series every year and the Super Bowl and all this stuff, and I'm sitting in press rooms writing this book. ah you know In the meantime, going around interviewing all the particulars and building this narrative.
00:10:54
Speaker
And so it was it was a mom I say it was a mom and pop ah start. I mean, I didn't have an agent. I didn't have a big publisher. I didn't make much money. But I just wanted to write a book. And I really wanted to hold it in my hand. And so eventually, it took a long time since I was doing it on the side.
00:11:14
Speaker
and but Eventually, yeah, I held that book in my hand and it was very well received, which I was pleased about. and so that That's what gave me the book. and from From that point forward, once you're a published author, you yeah even with a small press, i mean I got an agent after that and the agent started hooking me up with better publishers and just slowly started climbing the ranks of better publishers. But it was that first one, you know that's the hard one to write, I think.
Narrative Building in Non-fiction Writing
00:11:51
Speaker
and But it was a horse-racing story that I fell in love with. now To this day, I go back and look at that book and I thought, oh, that's not bad, you know the lily tea, the longest shot. I wrote it a long time ago. But you know it was it was it was definitely near my heart.
00:12:08
Speaker
Oh, that's great. and And what were, or what would you identify, you know, some of the the key lessons that you learned just from the experience of that first book that you've, you know, since parlayed to double digits? Yeah, 11 books. ah Well, you know, certainly what I learned is, and especially what what was important for me was I came into it. I am not a horse racing expert. I wrote columns on horse racing for the newspaper and I'd go to the track and, but I needed people to hold my hand and, and,
00:12:37
Speaker
go around and care, you know, and learn. There's a whole language of the track, as you know. but You know, if you ask the question the wrong way, you immediately identify it as, you know, an amateur. yeah And so, ah you know, you, there's also, so I really had to learn. ah The turf writer, the Baltimore Sun, Dale Austin was great. An older guy with a big sense of humor, and he really held my hand. But once I get into the book, you know, who really, i what I found, the lesson I learned was you really ah Work your sources and if you find one ah you know if you're lucky, you find one that is gold. and In my case, this trainer of Lily T, Lynn Whiting, was this old sort of old school trainer, son of a trainer.
00:13:24
Speaker
and had sort of really, he never ran a horse in the Derby unless he thought he could win. You know, the really with the right, he had the right instincts. He wasn't after a big barn, big stable. He wanted to run a few horses, win some races, and a great horse landed in his barn and he trained it up and and entered it in the Derby in one and And it was the event of his lifetime. And he just held my hand through the whole thing. He just really taught me the ins and outs of horse racing as well as and what made this story different.
00:13:56
Speaker
So, you know, I learned in there that the value, you know, it's so important to, I mean, you you go into it with an idea of what the story is, in ah in a large sense, the arc of the story, but it's in those details, you know, how are you how are you going to bring this thing to life? You know, ah you may have the bones, it's the old thing, you may have the bones, but where's the flesh and blood? You know, who's going to give you the details?
00:14:22
Speaker
And Lynn Whiting just piled it on for me. He's no longer living. ah And he gave me so many great details and pointed me in the direction of the right people. And so aside from learning about horse racing, I really learned about narrative nonfiction and and that one, which was you know you gotta dig deep and if you're lucky i mean you can you can report it it all you want and on the clips and and the archives and all that but you really you know if you find people that can really really bring it to life and give you those details that that make it leap off the page you you're you're you're lucky and you're yeah and you're you've got a good book on your hands
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah, there's there's interviewing for information and then there's interviewing for scene. So how did you learn the the skill of of doing that to really, yeah, to get that meat on the skeleton, get give it the muscle and the heart?
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question. ah ah interview cost Interviewing for information is what I pretty much did for newspapers all those years. so yeah And ah interviewing for scene is what you have to do for books. I mean, you still need information, but you know you definitely need scene as well.
00:15:36
Speaker
So I don't know. It was strictly organic. I mean, that's that's a really interesting question for me. You know, it's just how you relate to people and becoming aware of what you need, which when you start out, maybe writing nonfiction, you start out writing a book nonfiction and you've written for a newspaper, as I have, you've written columns, feature stories and all that. And it's, you know, you have quotes supporting your text and you know it's ah It's journalism. and Let me tell you, it wasn't the first book that I realized this. It took me a little while. But what I realized is, you know you don't have to always put those quotes in there.
00:16:18
Speaker
ah you know you know it's its It's maybe better off if you get this information, master it, and tell it yourself in your own voice. you know Develop a voice and and you drive the narrative, not someone else's voice.
00:16:34
Speaker
So and and the the most important part of that is interviewing people for scene and Knowing you know getting those details. So I started learning it on that book. It took me a while to figure Right. Yeah. Especially coming from newspaper backgrounds where you do you do quote people extensively. You outsource a lot of that commentary to the people that you interview and talk to. And um yeah I fell prey to this. I mean know always even with the most recently with this prefontaine biography I have coming out like my early drafts
00:17:07
Speaker
We're really, because so many of the people from the early 70s in that running culture were just such good talkers, especially Prefontaine, that sometimes you just want to ah leave their words there. But like over the over the course of a big narrative, and you know this as well as anyone, is you You do have to be the the authority and you have to take control of the wheel and paraphrase things, put it into your voice. You still cite where you got that information from, but it's coming from you know your point of view and how you phrase what they say, and it puts your stamp on it.
Publishing Journey and Editing Insights
00:17:41
Speaker
Yeah, but it's your book, and you know, it becomes your book. It's more than just a book about someone. when It's your book about someone. Yeah. And there there is a there is a difference. And I also I was fortunate in my second book, my first book for a major publisher, ah after I wrote that Lilly T book, I got an agent agent. I wrote a book. He I signed a deal wrote a book for Simon and Schuster, which was great second.
00:18:05
Speaker
book, A Place to Land. And it was a book about, it was autobiographical. It was about growing up in Dallas as in the 60s as a fan of the Cowboys. And just as a kid, it was really about my sort of memoir of being a kid and and in Dallas where the Kennedy assassination was you know and when I was 17 years old. And it was really about the the city growing up. It was about me growing up. And it was about the Cowboys growing up.
00:18:33
Speaker
ah you know Now, they're sort of you know the obnoxious America's team. But but you know in the 60s, it was different. It was all pretty pretty innocent. But you know anyway, I wrote that book for Simon and Schuster. It was called Cotton Bowl Days. And my editor, Jeff Newman, who's a really, really good editor, really smart, ah said something that ah to me. you know I had some great quotes.
00:18:57
Speaker
and I had him in there, and his comment to me, and I so i still tell people this, you know whenever I teach or talk to people, ah the the you know i said his comment to me was, you are not editing and but until you are leaving out things you like.
00:19:12
Speaker
All right, you haven't even started editing until you're leaving out things that you really like. That just almost knocked me you know to my knees. I was like, oh, man, I like a lot of this. but So ah you know keep it a little bit shorter than you think, and you know you go to take that stuff out. And maybe say it in your own words, shorter. And so that that was a huge lesson for me.
00:19:39
Speaker
Well that is that is tremendous tremendously good um insight and a good sense of when you know you're getting you're starting to get to the heart of things. you You know you're starting to really reduce the sauce to something concentrated and good to use a cooking metaphor. Because yeah, they're when you start seeing things that you're like that are on the floor now you're like man that was that was good and that took a lot of that took a lot of legwork to dig that up and how I found that person interviewed that person spent 90 minutes on the phone with that person and none of it actually is like in on the record though it's never quite gone it doesn't form the world you're building
00:20:18
Speaker
it It causes you, though, to look at everything. And that is, if you think of your your narrative, your through line of your book, what you're writing a book about is basically a straight line through the narrative. And so you can maybe sway from it a little bit as you go forward through there. You can go to the left, to the right, and get away from what you're writing about and tell some story that you've come across or somebody's backstory or whatever. You can get away a little bit, but ah not not too often and not too far. Remember what you're writing about. And so that really sort of, that that's the that what lies ah that's what lies underneath that lesson of you're not editing until you're taking stuff out that you like. It's it's like, you know remember what you're writing about. And even if you like, it doesn't really contribute to what you're writing about, to the thesis of this book, to the narrative. And if it doesn't,
00:21:10
Speaker
out and even if it's great and you know it's painful at times yeah but you do it. Absolutely yeah that is that's very well put and and ah speaking of through line at what point do you find the through line be it through interviewing or archival research you know when does it when does it strike you and you're like okay here's the clothesline on which I can sort start hanging the narrative.
00:21:39
Speaker
I think it comes at different times in different books. um yeah like that That book about the Cowboys, for instance, the one that I caught in bold days, it didn't I wanted to write about my childhood growing up. I wasn't sure I was old enough to be writing about my you know my childhood, but I wanted to do it. and the the you know The legendary people, sort of my experience as a fan, as a kid, and not until halfway through or even later did, you know, it just hit me like smack in the forehead. Look who's as I described it just a few minutes ago. It was me growing up. It's the team growing up and it's the city growing up.
00:22:20
Speaker
I didn't even think about that when I signed the deal to do that book. So that came to me as I was writing the book. And so this is as simple as that. you yeah And I was so excited when when a couple of reviewers got it. you know It was just like, yeah, they you know they totally understand. I didn't know that at first. But say, for instance, my most recent book, Rocket Men, about the but history of black quarterbacks,
00:22:48
Speaker
I mean, I knew what the through line was before I started, you know, and so, you know, I'm going to tell a story here. It's going to be searing. It's going to be it's it's going to be sad in a lot of ways. And, you know, probably couldn't have even published this book 15 or 20 years ago because it was all just bad endings of people's careers for the most part. So you're going to I knew what I was getting into and it was going to be tough. And fortunately,
00:23:16
Speaker
The last five to 10 years and in pro football, there's been an opening of the door of opportunity and it gives it a better ending. And so I pretty much knew from the start. So it it depends. it It really can be different.
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah I love that sense of discovery of you know you went into the you know that ah cotton ball days and it's just like yeah they as you did your research and plumbed your memory and ah started to you know figure out figure it out ends up kind of like the Polaroid picture starts to come into focus more.
00:23:48
Speaker
And, but you didn't, like you said, you you didn't know that heading in. And I think sometimes we can get into trouble by painting ourselves in a certain corner, but we really do need to leave our minds open to discovery. And that only comes through, you know, doing the work and letting it, kind of letting it letting the current of that reporting kind of dictate, you know, where the story goes. Don't don't don't don't try to force it, like kind of surrender to what you find.
00:24:12
Speaker
Oh, definitely. You don't know what you're going to find and you don't know what, sit down in any interview, you don't know what's going to come out of it. And a lot of times it will be something that can drive a narrative, you know, or a particular character's place in a narrative. You weren't expecting that at all. And you're going to, this definitely happened in Rocket Man for me.
00:24:35
Speaker
ah because I was writing about really well-known people, ah you know Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson, all these guys, and I didn't get to them. I mean, interviewing the top echelon media superstar people now, you don't just sit down for the old one-on-one. like you I mean, it's really, really hard. they Most of them have their own YouTube channels or you know they just don't want to do that stuff anymore. So it's really hard. So I had to talk to people around them.
00:25:04
Speaker
and really, really searched for the right people that could give me some insight into them. And that was how I had to go about that book. And even though I knew what the the larger structure, the narrative was about, I needed those details. you know and I didn't know what I was gonna get. So I definitely searched around and interviewed different people, found the right people to give me some insights that people didn't know.
00:25:32
Speaker
So I didn't know and I felt like well, I'm pretty attuned to this stuff. So I guess most people don't know about these guys So when you set out to write rocket men, you know, what was or who was your first phone call as you're starting to starting the process of Building the mass that would become the book.
Challenges in Writing About Race in Sports
00:25:55
Speaker
Well, my first phone call, set of phone calls, I sort of, this is fourth or fifth book of profile football history I've written. You know, my book, The League, ah has ah has really, is the one for me that's really broken through.
00:26:10
Speaker
and done well for a number of years. And I've written early Green Bay Packers. I mean, early Vince Lombardi history, wrote another book on the Cowboys and the Dallas alice Texans in the early 60s, AFL, NFL. So that whole era, I sort of developed a a clan of people you know that I could go to, historians or scouts or people that just knew about it.
00:26:36
Speaker
So I called a bunch of them, called a bunch of them and said, yeah, can you walk me through that era in regards to this story? And I have to tell you, you know, there were quite a few that said, you know what, I think I'm going to sit this one out.
00:26:49
Speaker
ah you know i don't i don't and you know I like working with you, I like your books, but you know this is this is a little bit of a hot potato and it doesn't necessarily reflect well on on the NFL. and you know A lot of people don't mind digging into that, but some people do.
00:27:08
Speaker
yeah And so, that you know, that was my introduction to the fact that, well, this is going to be a little different, you know, this, this, you know, this exam, this, this story is definitely people react to it differently than the other just basic football history that I've written, because it's a book about race. Right off the bat, I knew, okay, you know, you're in a different lane here.
00:27:34
Speaker
What would you identify as an early victory for your research and your reporting as you were you know that starting to starting to get more information? Well, it was certain guys. there were you know I wrote this book during the pandemic.
00:27:52
Speaker
And so travel was limited, and it was harder to get a hold of some people. And ah you know I was really, some of it had to be on the phone, which I don't like doing, but you just had to do it. And it was a little worrisome, to be honest with you, ah you know that I could get everything that I needed.
00:28:12
Speaker
And ah I had an interview with ah James Harris, who is in the book, was a quarterback in the 70s, the Los Angeles Rams. And he's one of the first black quarterbacks in the NFL, the modern NFL.
00:28:26
Speaker
I knew him a little bit because he, I'm in Baltimore. I've spent a lot of time around the Baltimore Ravens, actually worked for the Ravens at one point, writing for their digital side. And I knew James a little bit. And he's he's got a very interesting cause he had tremendous problems in the late sixties and early seventies, getting a chance to play. he his His experience pretty much sums up what was going on for many years. So I got him on the phone. He doesn't do a lot of interviews.
00:28:55
Speaker
And we started talking. And he was just unbelievable. He's such a storyteller. He's from the South. And he's like he's out of that old southern storytelling you know niche of this world, which I love. And he just started rolling. And you know I asked him one question.
00:29:15
Speaker
at one point what was it like to get you know you're from little town louisiana you're coming out of gremlin you get never even been around white people and you know grown up in the gym crow south practically and then you get drafted by the buffalo bills and you go up to buffalo to try to make the team What was that summer like? and He talked for half an hour about just unbelievable experience when he he went up there. He didn't have a contract. when you know he He needed money to buy sandwiches at night. and you know The team gave him walking around money, but they made him work for it. They made him clean his teammates cleats and stuff that you just cannot believe. and so He told me this story literally half an hour.
00:30:00
Speaker
And I was like, and then he gets to the end of it, and I'm like stunned, you know, I'm silent. I was like, you know what, James, that was that's an unbelievable story. And really, we should just stop right there. Really, that should be a book in itself the summer of 69. I mean, there was so much that went on. And so that interview.
00:30:19
Speaker
but I said, you know, you you you're on to something here. you You got to find more people like this. Easier said than done. But, you know, it's poignant and important and searing, as I said, stuff for them. And so get them talking on it. You're good. So what was the the very early experience for black quarterbacks in in professional football?
00:30:44
Speaker
Well, James, is and but we're talking modern football. I mean, really, the I mean, there were no black players in the NFL the 12 years, well, through World War II. There were a few in the first decade and then none for thirty from 1934 to 46 or 33 to 45, I think it was 12 years. Terrible, the worst you know thing. ah I mean, you look at the history of the NFL, it's segregated just like Major League Baseball.
00:31:13
Speaker
And they did reintegrate after the war. And um so ah you know there was a trickle of players, ah black players, into the 50s. They started drafting players sort of grudgingly. But certainly we're not going to give quarterbacks an opportunity because the game was evolving. Football was becoming much more sophisticated. The offenses were complex.
00:31:34
Speaker
and You know, very honestly, there was just a racist ideology. I mean, the people in charge didn't believe that a black player, you know, were they smart enough to handle these offenses? Would white teammates lead? Would they work hard? Just everything you could imagine, there was doubt.
00:31:54
Speaker
And so the black experience for quarterbacks coming out, good ones coming out of college for many years was you're going to play wide receiver. You're going to be a running back. We like you as an athlete. We're not sure. We're not sure whether you're smart enough. I mean, just basic. There it is. And so, uh, so they had, they had to change position. So it was just galling.
00:32:17
Speaker
you know And I put some stories in there, even a first round draft pick, first round draft pick, Eldridge Dickey of the Oakland Raiders in 1968 had to change positions. Super, super talented kid that given the the power and support of an organization, say today, definitely given time to develop could have been an NFL quarterback, but that opportunity didn't happen. so And it's really, this whole thing is a story of opportunity.
00:32:43
Speaker
So the experience was they couldn't even get on the field. And then finally, you know a couple did. James Harris being one. you know Finally, he gets a little bit of a chance. A coach gives him a chance. Doug Williams is a seminal figure in the story. gets a first He's drafted in the first round. Eventually wins the Super Bowl. And you get into that first generation of guys that got to play. Doug Williams and and Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon.
00:33:13
Speaker
And so those are the guys that at least went out and show the football world that a black person can play quarterback cause until they came along, you know, it just didn't happen.
00:33:25
Speaker
Yeah, and I think all the more tragic as well is like, okay, when some of these athletes got an opportunity to be under center, the leash that they were playing with was so
Racial Dynamics in NFL Quarterback Roles
00:33:40
Speaker
short. I mean, even if they had a few bad games, it might be the end of their career if they just had like a three-game funk, whereas white quarterbacks were granted two, three, or four seasons to learn on the job.
00:33:53
Speaker
that That, to me, was ah particularly striking. Very true. Unbelievably true. I did a whole chapter on Joe Gilliam, who ah what played ah for the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 70s. Just an amazing talent ah drafted from an HBCU and and shows up. and He's so good that the Steelers don't get rid of him, even though Terry Bradshaw's on the team.
00:34:17
Speaker
But yeah, he finally there's a strike a player strike a union strike in 1974 and Bradshaw's out of camp and Joe Gilliam gets the job and he's just he's just electric and they start the strike ends and Bradshaw comes back he's sitting on the bench Joe Gilliam's playing and winning he's running around he's decades ahead of You know, the the the what the football teams wanted from the quarterbacks in the 70s was wide stretch, you know, straight drop back. Don't run around, you know, throw a big pass maybe, but don't run around. Joe Gilliam was running around and doing his own thing and talking trash and ah six games he started and his performances were up and down a little bit.
00:35:02
Speaker
but he won four, they were in first place, he loses his job, and he never he never has another chance. He's 24 maybe when this happens to him. never has another chance in the NFL. A guy that was, you know, on the cover of Sports Illustrated when that was a big deal and ah showed that he could. But, you know, there's too many forces working against him. And this is in the 1970s. So, you know, it's it's a long time ago, but it's and it's not ancient history.
00:35:34
Speaker
No, no and you really get a sense of the institutionalized racism, whereas like where the where the black quarterbacks were either their position would get changed if they wanted the opportunity to play.
00:35:49
Speaker
And then what you start to see is because of that, the there's no examples for players coming up. They just realize, well, well if I'm a like a very good quarterback coming out of college, um they're gonna force me to change positions. So maybe some do. And then as a result, more of these great black quarterbacks are getting, they're just starting to sort of self-select themselves to go in different directions. And as a result, you start seeing the proliferation of white quarterbacks and now everyone sees it like only white quarterbacks exist and it's it's in it's a decade generation generational process and it takes generations to undo it and only now are we starting to see the pendulum swing to a greater sense of equity and and opportunity on the field.
00:36:36
Speaker
Yeah, only now is really true. I mean, and and it is really in the last five years, ah you know, the, you know, part of the reason I wrote the book is, as you know, as I said, I was in Baltimore, actually working for the Ravens and Lamar Jackson lands, you know, right in front of me.
00:36:52
Speaker
And he's an unbelievable player, Heisman Trophy winner. And his experience in the draft was the San Diego, then San Diego Chargers said, are you going to run the 40 because we think you'll be a good receiver? And, you know, Bill Poli in the Hall of Fame, a general manager, says, I don't know that Lamar Lamar should play another position. This is in 2018. The NFL is 98 years old.
00:37:16
Speaker
this is still happening the same thing that happened to players like in the thirties so i said this this this is you know a part of the reason i wrote it was seeing that and also uh as you said i mean i was impressed boxes in the 80s the 90s covering the super bowl covering all this stuff and very honestly i miss this story And felt I felt badly about it. I mean, I was well aware there were not many black quarterbacks. I wasn't aware. I covered the Super Bowl where Doug Williams won the Super Bowl. You know, it was MVP, first black quarterback in a seminal moment in football history and the opening of the door. People thought, oh, it's like Jackie Robinson and all this stuff. It wasn't. But, ah you know, we thought that'd be that. I didn't realize till I started started to dig into it, the next 25 Super Bowls were won by white quarterbacks.
00:38:07
Speaker
Everybody said, oh, well, dog is one. It's all going to change. Well, it didn't. It didn't change at all. You know, there were a little bit more opportunity for a few guys, but not a lot. And and the same sort of doubts and and sort of institutional racism you know Maybe it's not what it was, but it's it's certainly not gone away. It was still there and I thought, you know boy, you know this this is a story and I missed it. I feel like you know the least I can do, I've written 10 books, the least I can do is do what I do, bring to bear, you know go in and dig dig into this story and do the research and interview people and shine a light on it.
00:38:51
Speaker
because it's it's there and it's a story that needs to be told. Well yeah as you read just the as you read the entire story and then you come then you ah then you then you meet Lamar Jackson in your book and you hear a Bill Paulian echo the things that were said of these athletes from the 30s 40s 50s like through ah through all time it does hit you in ah in the gut in a different way where it's like oh wow like man the system's in place they they move at a glacial glacial pace and it's still very much happening today I mean Jamel Hill had a wonderful riff on um on on our podcast I was on Instagram about like the MVP race between Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson and Side by side, Lamar should and better win it this year. And it's like, and she's like it was his, but his reluctance to to code switch. And it's where a lot of people, he doesn't look or sound like the prototypical quarterback. And you're like, oh my God, that it still exists.
00:40:00
Speaker
It's really, really true what you know, says and you know, I address this in the book. Yeah, and you know, and I felt like and you know, here I am, you know, a white author writing about this and I wanted to find, you know, people to confirm this for me. I can't just say it. And I felt this was a case where I needed other people to say and I found some historians and, ah you know,
00:40:24
Speaker
a professor of African American history at Ole Miss and and different people to talk about that and Lamar in particular about how you know he he symbolizes something you know to black America. you know He's different. you know he He definitely, he is not code switching and he's and he's you know the Ravens haven't made him do it and he is who he is. He's very much his own person and it's great.
00:40:49
Speaker
And so I had a lot of people sort of talking about that. And it's very interesting to watch it unfold. And yes, he's had to deal with it. He's a positive young man and a really good nature. And so he he's he can definitely deal with it.
00:41:11
Speaker
ah But it is interesting to watch it just, I think it was just a year or two ago, who was it some commentator somewhere that said, Oh, yeah Lamar is not that quarterbacky quarterbacky made up a word. And you know, whatever, you know, my alarm just went up. It's like, Oh, no, you know, look, look at this. yeah It's still happening.
00:41:32
Speaker
Yeah, and while the yeah the and the opportunities for black quarterbacks to be drafted very high and to have Have a chance to succeed and have a chance to have a longer Window through its to prove the prove their skill prove their worth ah What we're starting to see now is that And just if through reading your book, I kind of noticed this like the the blackhead coach is kind of like what the black quarterback was decades ago. Like you're look at Anthony Peirce, Antonio Peirce and Gerard Mayo recently. They got one year with shitty teams and they got fired.
00:42:11
Speaker
with no players and no support. And then they're bringing in the 74-year-old, about to be 74-year-old white guy, and then the the other the other white guy to come in and save the day. It's like the lee they they didn't get the the same the same chance to build the culture. They were in and gone, just like the old black quarterbacks. So true. And I can't tell you, as I went around promoting this book, how many people said, oh what is what is volume two on the coaches?
00:42:39
Speaker
And I'm like, uh, you know, it's, that's a valid question and it's certainly what volume two should be about. I think I'm going to let someone else write it, but, uh, it is, it is a very valid story. And, you know, those, those examples you cite, uh, you know, just tell you everything you need to know. There's plenty of great black coaches in the league and, uh, you know, they, they tons of them and they, they certainly deserve that opportunity, the head coaching opportunity.
00:43:06
Speaker
But, uh, it's very much a, uh, you know, an old boys club. You're as it was with the era of Randall Cunningham and Warren moon and those first guys to get a chance, you know, if you come make it through somehow make, you know, squeeze through the gates that have been closed. Somehow they squeeze through and they're, they're in the arena and that's great and they will change things. for everybody but you know it has to happen now for coaches there is no there's no doubt about it and that's gonna be hard that's gonna be hard cuz these owners
00:43:41
Speaker
you know, very clearly, you know, the one and done mentality, pretty much. And there's there's other ones up, you know, the Houston Texans, i well how many years in a row did they fire a black coach? There were two or three in a row, happened you know, for one year.
Modern Changes in NFL Gameplay
00:43:56
Speaker
And I was like, wow, I mean, that's just incredible. So, ah yeah, it's it's very tough sledding for them.
00:44:04
Speaker
As you get later in the book and you're starting to see the quarterbacks of the ah really thrive, you have Mahomes, Jackson, you know you you Kyler Murray, ah among others, now we see Jaden Daniels there who has done exceptionally well, who didnt does isn't in your book because he you know he's still in college at the time, but we're seeing him take ah take a team to the NFL, NFC Championship game.
00:44:27
Speaker
what What really struck me late in the book was how just how much it's meant to the Doug Williams and the Warren Moons of the world. like To see what has come what they endured and to see the success of these young quarterbacks. ah To see how it affects them. I imagine that that was pretty moving for you too just to see how important it was to them seeing the success of the quarterbacks now.
00:44:51
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad you bring that up. Really true. And ah Warren Moon in particular was very much he was a friend of the book. All right. Warren Moon was very helpful. He he got into it and you know he's on the cover of the book as he should be. ah But along with Patrick Mahomes. But, ah you know, I.
00:45:09
Speaker
i I used him a lot and he told me, he said, listen, when I was playing, when I was younger man, I i didn't want to be known. You sort of understand it. He said, I didn't want to be known as a black quarterback. I wanted to be a good quarterback, you know. I didn't want to be defined that way. But he said, all these years later, you know, I see, I see the big picture and what I did and, you know, opening the door, however much along with Doug and a few other guys, what it has meant.
00:45:38
Speaker
And you know it's incredibly important to him. He takes takes great pride in that as well as well he should. ah So that was that was that was very, very gratifying. you know He really just put it straight in words. you know Yeah, you know I rejected it. He even rejected it, I believe, in his Hall of Fame speech. But he he understands now because The door has opened. you know Finally, I do believe, and I was as cynical as anybody on on this subject, but I do see these teams now not seeing color at that position anymore. It just really seems like the opportunity is there if you're good. And that's all anybody ever wanted, the opportunity. So it it really has changed. But really, and just in the last
00:46:32
Speaker
Five years are you seeing these these really, really talented black quarterbacks coming out of college and going high in the draft and letting franchises you know give them the keys to the ah offense. You're only just starting to see it, but it's happening. I don't think there's any going back. I think i think it's here to stay.
00:46:50
Speaker
Right. And I think you make the point in the book also that for the first really for the first time in the last few years maybe maybe 10 years or so like that might extend a little farther back. But the how the college game is influencing the NFL game instead of the other way around. And that was ah a much more freewheeling expansive ah offenses that played.
00:47:12
Speaker
ah that played well to um to these young quarterbacks coming up and and so that's really the coaches are coming out of that system and then the players are coming in from those coaches so now we're seeing a much more explosive dynamic NFL product as a result.
00:47:30
Speaker
football has changed. i mean yeah you We talked earlier about how you don't know about some things. when you yeah What surprises do you have when you're reporting out a book? you know I had a few moments in this book, you know and it was all towards the end. It was like, you know what's really happened here is the nature of bro quarterbacking and pro football has changed, i mean really changed.
00:47:52
Speaker
and You know, I'm a fan like anyone else, and I guess it just had not. I just hadn't thought of it quite so simply like that. It's like, yeah, the quarterback position is really different than it was even just 15 years ago.
00:48:06
Speaker
And so that that is a huge development that has and then you know teams have opened open their eyes to it instead of, until then, and we're you're talking about like 2010, any quarterback that came into the league, the NFL team looked at him and said, we're gonna teach you to do what we do. So then it finally flipped, where it was like, we're gonna let you do what you do, and we're going to you know let what you do determine what we do.
00:48:33
Speaker
yeah and that that was just a seminal change. yeah As I reported it out, it it just hit me very clearly when it happened was the generation in the early 2010s.
00:48:46
Speaker
ah Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick, ah Cam Newton, and ah you know there um I'm trying to think, there's there's so Robert Griffin, he got hurt, but those those were high draft picks They came into the league. The league didn't say, you have to play we the way we do. We're going to let you be you. Those guys immediately started winning. They they most of them made a Super Bowl or Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl, probably should have won two Super Bowls.
Narrative Strategies in 'Rocket Men'
00:49:17
Speaker
And, you know, he ah so those were great quarterbacks. And that's the moment it flipped, I think is really the moment ah where teams said, hey, we can
00:49:30
Speaker
pro football looked at that generation said we can put our teams in the hands of these guys this type of quarterback who are black and we can be fine and ah you know that was the really the biggest change i think in letting you know and what has gone on now here in the last four or five years finally if you know they saw it's going to be okay if we And when you were you know synthesizing and generating your pages for for the book, I always love digging into how you organize your work, all your interview transcripts and yeah whatever documents you might have. and So how did you approach yeah the writing of this and the the process through which you you wrote this particular book?
00:50:15
Speaker
This was a hard one because ah from an a narrative standpoint, because almost all of my books have been, you know, you know I wrote about that daas the start of pro football in Dallas when there were two teams, a 10-gallon war, you know, and the Dallas Texans left and went to Kansas City and became the Chiefs. That's a three-year window, a three-year window. I wrote about Vince Lombardi's first year in Green Bay, 1959, set in motion everything that ultimately led to the titles. One year window there. You know, I wrote about, ah wrote listen, and I wrote a book, you know, in 2006, I wrote a book called The Great Match Rapes about the first major, it's a book of history, the first major sports event in American history, a North, South,
00:51:00
Speaker
horse race in 1823, you know, that very narrow timeframe. So, you know, I didn't have a long span to cover this story of the quarterbacks. It's a hundred years, you know, just huge, you know, just one framework, one setting after another, one generation after another. How am I going to tie this together? How can I make it not just be like a series series of magazine articles?
00:51:29
Speaker
yeah you know First, I'm going to do what happened with Fritz Pollard, who's famous one in their early 1920s, and then story about him, and then go to somebody in the 50s, and then go to Marlon Briscoe, who played for the Denver Broncos in 1968, and then Doug Williams. How can I make them all part of a narrative? That was a big challenge. and so That really involved more writing.
00:51:56
Speaker
I thought just you know you really have to figure out where all of these people fit into the ah timeline that I'm um spooling here. How do they fit into it and tell people that? Remember that this is a timeline. This is not just their story. This is a story that is part of a bigger story. I sort of just identified when I went into it, who are the guys I'm going to write about?
00:52:22
Speaker
And there's, you know, not that many because there weren't, but I wanted to identify the guys that had failed to that didn't not failed, but they didn't get the chance. Because those stories are really important. So I just selected a bunch of, you know, 10 to 12 guys that I wanted to highlight. So and I decided, and and also what was tricky about this one, chronological, it's a it's a book unspools chronologically.
00:52:47
Speaker
yeah I start in 1920 and I end in, you know, 2020. So I almost never do that with with any book, you know, any not a nonfiction book. You know, I've always found, well, you start at a at ah at a certain point that's dramatic.
00:53:03
Speaker
and And then maybe it brings in the reader and then you go back and and explain why you know I started there and what the drama is. And then you go through the backstory and keep moving the narrative forward. ah Maybe a couple of different timeframes as you move through that eventually come together.
00:53:23
Speaker
this was completely different this was start at the beginning and end at the end and so in one sense it was a little easier you know it's just just going one direction here and so that was good but it was very tricky the but you know what was what was tricky was finding out making sure that it was, there was a narrative there, you know, that it went smoothly. And ah like I said, you know, where they fit into this. And so, um you know, that that was hard. and And the hardest part, as I mentioned earlier, was finding the people to talk about it. I was turned down by a number of people. ah That hadn't happened to me before in a book.
00:54:11
Speaker
You know, people really didn't want to talk. Some people, I guess it was too hot of an issue. ah So I had to find certain sources. So that that is a big stress when I wrote this. And so.
00:54:24
Speaker
You know, there's some serendipity involved. You know, Greg Roman, currently the offensive coordinator of the Chargers. ah He was the offensive coordinator of the Ravens when I was there. And he sort of unleashed Lamar Jackson. Okay, it turns out he was also the offensive coordinator of the 49ers when they had Colin Kaepernick.
00:54:44
Speaker
So, Greg Roman was tremendous for me. now I could sit down with him. I got him. And I said, you know, let's talk about Kaepernick. And then let's talk about Lamar and let's talk about black quarterbacks. So, I had to had to really work this sort of network and figure out who are the right people to talk to.
00:55:04
Speaker
and so guys like that just saved me and you know really gave great insight and the ah flesh and blood as well as the bones that we talked about so you know those were the real challenges right ah Greg Rome is the unofficial Harbaugh brother right there. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Well, you know, the Ravens fans got tired of him and, uh, you know, he, but he, I like him personally and you know, he's a good football coach and, uh, you know, I always appreciate anybody that likes a written word. We sat down to talk and he told me his uncle was a sport driver, you know, he likes the written word. And so we were in good shape there and, uh, he gave me a great interview so i came across ah a few guys like
00:55:51
Speaker
ah T Martin, who had won a national championship for Tennessee as a quarterback, a black quarterback, he got into, he he flamed out. Then he got in as ah and the pros, got into coaching. And it turns out, well, he he mentored Cam Newton. I needed somebody to talk about Cam Newton. Well, T Martin was his personal quarterback coach in high school when T was trying to figure that stuff out. I had no idea.
00:56:16
Speaker
completely stumbled onto that. And so he had this unbelievable insight and into Cam Newton's background and what made him tick. So, you know, I very honestly got a little lucky there. And so stuff, but stuff like that when I kept finding people to talk about these guys, and that was great.
00:56:36
Speaker
that's I love hearing you talk about the serendipity of just finding a connection or a source who knows someone. You didn't know that this particular person overlapped with so-and-so. Or you go into an archive looking for one letter. You stumble across something else that totally speaks to something that is in the book. You're like, oh my god, I would have never found this in a million years. in Or i just it's part of the stress, but also the joy of doing this. because You're like, oh my god, what else am I missing out there?
00:57:04
Speaker
Or who else could I talk to that I just haven't, you know who might be able to shed some light? That's kind of the panic, but also kind of the fun. Yeah, I'll give you one. ah you know I was just really struggling. how the Who am I going to get to talk about Russell Wilson's ah early days in the NFL ah with Seahawks? such Such an interesting period of time and such a dramatic story. But who can I get? I don't know Russell.
00:57:32
Speaker
You know he doesn't really do interviews like that and then it hit me I had interviewed Warren Moon and Warren was great. ah Talking his own story and then he's on the radio broadcast season Seattle and you know he he knows Russell well he's helped him out when he got to town and had a huge connection to it I mean he's a flight on the plane with him after games you know he was he was he's in the front row.
00:57:58
Speaker
He was in the front row of Russell Wilson's beginnings in the NFL. And I don't know remember when it hit me. Maybe I was going for a run or something, but I said, you you're an idiot. It's right in front of you. Look at this. you know you know he is Warren Moon is the person to talk to. Just call him. And so yeah, and he was great. And so you know he just was so informative about Russell and really brought texture to it.
00:58:26
Speaker
And so that that really helped me tell that story of him and Russell coming to the Seahawks. so But i that's you know there's sort of the same thing with Greg Roman. so you But you find just the right the right piece that fits from a storytelling perspective.
Book Recommendation and Cultural Impact
00:58:43
Speaker
And thats that's when you are on your way to building a good book.
00:58:49
Speaker
Well, John, as I bring these conversations down for a landing, what I always love asking the guests for just ah a fun recommendation for the listeners. And that can just be anything that you find ah that that that's just making you happy. They're like, you want to share with someone that can be anything from a brand of socks to a book you're reading. it whatever whatever Whatever is lighting you up, what would you recommend?
00:59:10
Speaker
Oh, man. Well, ah i'm I'm an English, I'm an old English major. I read a lot. I read a lot of fiction. And ah I read a book, it's not a brand new book. ah But the book Trust by Hernan Diaz is a fiction book that just really is the one that I, I've read fairly recently that I cannot get out. It was such a beautifully crafted book, one of the most beautifully crafted and written books I've ever read. And I can't recommend that book highly enough trust. And so that wouldn't, I feel good about throwing that out there. I really, really enjoyed it. Oh, that's amazing. Well, well John, ah yeah Rocket Man was such a great sort of cultural biography of the position of black quarterbacks. It was just ah and such as such a great read, a great history, an important history, I think. And ah so just thank you so much for the for the work that you've done, especially that this most recent book. And that's carving out some time to talk shop. Thanks a lot. Well, I really appreciate you having me on. Really enjoyed it. Thank you.
01:00:26
Speaker
This emergency pod came during a week where I had to read my book for the final time, thank goodness, and another book for another pod. And so I had to read three books this week.
01:00:38
Speaker
Three books, the front runner for the dozenth time or so or more, who the hell knows? ah John's and then this this other one. It was a bear to keep my eyes from shriveling up to raisins. Raisins, as the saying go, are the windows to the soul. Thanks to John for the time, for coming on for this emergency podcast. A great time to celebrate the painfully slow progress of black quarterback acceptance in professional football.
01:01:09
Speaker
Now if only the coaching ranks would catch up, but hey, give it 50 more years. you Give it 50 more years. that Maybe we'll get there. And by then, it might just be flag football. Thanks also to the Power of Narrative Conference for promotional
Nostalgia in Blogging vs. Social Media
01:01:25
Speaker
support. Pre-orders for the front runner are open and consider visiting patreon dot.com slash cnfpod to support the pod and get some one-on-one time with me to talk shit out. Sometimes you need to talk shit out.
01:01:41
Speaker
I've later been having fun writing blog posts. I know, so retro. They are usually short essays on long running, usually about two to three hundred words, on a riff that comes to my mind when I'm out for a jog or a walk. It's very old school, man. The idea of a pre-social media internet where you had to seek out people you liked, you know, bookmark their websites and actively visit them to see if they posted anything new. I miss the internet when there were fun things to read to waste your time on.
01:02:14
Speaker
It was like browsing into a magazine stand or something. You had that the agency of consumption of what you wanted to see, on your terms, really. That's why I still love Maria Popova's The Marginalion, formerly Brain Pickings. I'm not always crazy about her writing style. I take her to leave that at times, but I love that it's always about you know art, philosophy, creativity, well curated ah stuff, nourishing place to hang out for a while.
01:02:42
Speaker
you know like ah path through a garden. There's no video, no ads, no audio, just text. When you click on a link that you think might be an article, you're like, oh, that seems like cool, cool thing to read. And it's like, so it's actually a 90-minute podcast. I'm like, fuck, not everything has to be a podcast. This is from the guy who's recording a podcast. I used to love, but not anymore. like ah yeah Tim Ferriss's blog because there was always some life hacky thing When I was into life hacky things I am no longer into life hacky things I'm more in the time when I had that I wasted in my late 20s and early 30s in the in that sort of a biohacking life optimization
01:03:31
Speaker
Spat that happened around that time, but we're not gonna go there Maybe someday, but not but not now I like that Austin Kleon still blogs almost every day like it's 2009 and Seth Godin of course has been blogging every day since like 1934 or something or you know a little more contemporaneous than that and I guess I just miss when people blogged about shit they were into. you know Not to build a brand. Not to be an influencer of any kind. Just, this is our little platform. This is the garden we get to tend, and these are the the plants I choose to seed, if you will. So yes, I've been writing more blog posts. I post these parting shots as part of the show notes of a particular episode, and they act kind of as blog posts. My newsletter, Riff, is like a super blog post.
01:04:22
Speaker
Anyway thing is we got lazy and that's gonna be another blog post ah We outsourced the network effect in the community building to these mega tech platforms and it corralled us For their own needs they locked us in that was that was the strategy it worked still works So posting the Facebook Instagram Twitter blue sky snapchat threads it all feels effective in a way And maybe someone wins the virality lottery one day, and what does that really net you? I can't imagine it's much, except maybe that shiny new stalker you never asked for. Point being, there's joy and inconvenience. I don't care if zero people read my stupid little blog post about some inane thought I had while laboring through 4 or 6 mile run.
01:05:11
Speaker
I may or may not share it on social media to build a wee bit of awareness, but honestly, more people listen to this parting shot than will ever see a blue sky post or an Instagram story. And trust me, not many people listen to this point, ah depressingly little.
01:05:28
Speaker
ah Maybe find the love of blogging again, and we find the love of blogs again You know try not to outsource it to sub stack who really harness the means of distribution Like that's an easy part. That's seductive. I don't trust sub stack Be okay with making people find you. It's frustrating and slow. and There was never much of a rush until we were brain-fucked by social media. So maybe slow down a moment and remember it wasn't always this way. And we don't have to keep putting coins in the slot machine. Know what I'm saying? So stay wild, see you in efforts. And if you can't do, interview. See ya.