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Trust, Teams, and Tax Credit Innovation with Biz Williams
7 Plays21 days ago
In this episode of MustardHub Voices: Behind the Build, host Curtis Forbes sits down with Biz Williams, CRO at HRLogics and founder of Ryze Credits, to explore how a designer-turned-sales-leader built one of the fastest-growing compliance and tax-credit startups in the HR tech space. Biz shares her journey from creative beginnings to closing a $1.4 million revenue run in just three months, then merging with HR Logix to expand a full suite of compliance and credit-management tools.
Together, they dive into the leadership lessons behind her success—from earning trust through empathy to identifying real team players and future leaders. Biz unpacks how automation and AI are reshaping HR operations, why human judgment still matters, and what today’s executives can learn from listening to their people. Packed with insight, humor, and heart, this conversation is a masterclass in leading with transparency, scaling with purpose, and building relationships that last longer than any contract.
About Biz:
Elizabeth “Biz” Williams is a SaaS industry veteran with 14 years of experience in the space. She created Ryze Credits in 2024, which she sold to HRlogics in June 2025. Subsequently, she joined HRlogistics in the role of CRO.
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Overview
00:00:07
Speaker
It's that time again. Welcome to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. In these fireside chats, I sit down with the people building, backing, and running better workplaces.
Guest Introduction: Biz Williams
00:00:17
Speaker
I'm your host, Curtis Forbes.
00:00:19
Speaker
My guest today is Biz Williams. Biz is a SaaS industry veteran, 14 years experience in the space. She created Rise Credits in 2024, which she ah sold to HR Logix in June 2025.
Career Journey and Business Transition
00:00:35
Speaker
And subsequently, she joined Logix in the role of CRO. Thanks so much for joining me on Behind the Build, Biz. Welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
00:00:46
Speaker
Yeah, well I am very much looking forward to ah to hearing all about RISE, hearing all about HR Logix, to hearing all about kind of your story and how you know you you got there. You have a very interesting...
00:00:59
Speaker
career trajectory, which I'd like to hear. you know Tell me a little bit about that before we jump into some of the other things. I'd like to kind of hear what brought you all the way up to 2024, and then we'll jump into the next phase.
00:01:13
Speaker
a lot. I mean, ah if you go back to the very beginning of career life, I actually had my degree in graphic design. So nothing related to sales or revenue or building anything at all.
00:01:26
Speaker
and But just had that creative background realized that I didn't want to sit there and not talk to anybody all day long. So I didn't pursue that after college, ah but got into the sign making industry, believe it or not, and and developed a...
00:01:43
Speaker
sleeping giant mentality where we were we had certain customers, we wanted to go and grow those customers.
Team Building and Product Development
00:01:48
Speaker
And that really ah created the love for for going out and hunting for more business and and looking into various clients or prospects that that could sustain the business.
00:02:02
Speaker
um So it was tapped by snagg a job And without having that B2B experience, I was put into SMB role. and But you know and being a a young mom and hungry, having to succeed and do well, and having to make up the salary difference from being kind of top of my game at one company and then you know starting over at another one at a completely different industry, had to work my way up. So made a name for myself and took a long time to move into your management.
00:02:35
Speaker
um But I did. it took about nine years with Snaggadob to finally move into management. And just because that I say this, I think I had a mentor one time where i said, when is it okay to be okay with someone else being in charge of your wallet?
00:02:50
Speaker
And anyone else that's ever managed a team probably can understand that, that mentality of when is it okay to not be 100% control anymore?
00:03:01
Speaker
And he said to me, you know, if you don't have a team that you like, you go out and you build it. And so that began the mentality of I don't have to settle for second best if I don't have what I need to build a team and to know that this team is going to see be successful behind
Founding and Merging of Rise Credits
00:03:19
Speaker
me.
00:03:19
Speaker
And I go out and I find who is. ah So that's, ah that kind of started that, that mentality and that mindset and, you know, moved into supporting a new product at Snagajob, new team, developing the buyer personas and what works. And, um you know, even though it was backed by another company, it gave the bandwidth to me to know what it would be like to build my own company.
00:03:47
Speaker
um And then with HR Logix moving over there in 2023, you know, and some things, the change is happening and what have you. said, you know what, I really want to do this myself. I'm seeing the what the company is doing from a state credit perspective and the the manualness of everything and saying there's got to be ah better way to do this.
00:04:07
Speaker
And so and my now business partner and and good friends, he's the CEO of HR Logix, said, let me go build this, you know. Let me just go do this. And he had my back on it.
00:04:19
Speaker
ah Let me take the state credit team with me. And we went and built something fantastic that grew to $1.4 million dollars in contractor revenue within the first three months. And then they wanted it back.
Innovations and Challenges in Tax Credits
00:04:31
Speaker
so yeah So we merged in June of 2025. And um now was kind of doing the whole thing of rebuilding the entire company to create a massive 2026 trajectory.
00:04:46
Speaker
I, there's something about, so I love that you have a creative background. um i i mean, my background was in, is in music. I mean, I i spent 15 years on the, on the jazz circuit playing music and,
00:04:59
Speaker
Something about the coming from that artist background with an entrepreneurial spirit, you know you you have that experience with a blank page right or a blank screen or in my case, write that sheet music, which can be terrifying to most people. right But it's just it's an infinite amount of possibilities. And you're tasked with you know creating that uniqueness on that that page, um which is amazing.
00:05:28
Speaker
Which is so cool, right? And I mean, not not everybody can do that. Clearly you've done it exceptionally well, um but there's just there's something about that mentality and and I love seeing that kind of stuff.
00:05:39
Speaker
so um So you were at HR Logix, you saw where it was going, you saw the opportunity to make something better, and then you took the team, basically, you went and did that and wanted it all back.
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah we we basically said we were using another provider for the federal tax credit WOTC. It wasn't going so well. And they had completely shut down their state credit processing because they didn't have anybody to do it.
00:06:10
Speaker
he said, we were at dinner one day and I said, i need a better WOTC provider. And he was like, well, i need state credits back. said So we were kind of writing down on a piece of paper of, well, if we shared this salary, you know, and this person helped you over here and like this person helped me over here and, you know, all this stuff. And i was like, I just looked at him. and was like why don't we just merge?
00:06:31
Speaker
Like, this is getting too complicated. Like, let's just merge. We both need each other. let's just merge. And so, yeah, we made it happen probably 30 days later. So to tell me more about Rise, right? I kind of have an an understanding now what what drove you to create the company.
00:06:48
Speaker
ah Talk to me a little bit about, um you know, what it did, maybe how how it sort of innovated a little bit before you made that decision to go back together. Yeah. So there has never really been a central repository of a system that enables people to see what tax credits are applicable to where they have locations.
00:07:07
Speaker
And so a lot of this for CPAs, even for ourselves at HR Logics, prior to the tool being created, it lived on Excel sheets. And there are things that change every single year. You know, for federal empowerment zones, there are different census tracts.
00:07:21
Speaker
You know, and it's not a, if you're in this area, this zip code, and you'd make these changes or do these things, then this credit applies to you.
Client Relationships and Business Success
00:07:31
Speaker
it could be down to the literal across the street in the same zip code, but you no longer qualify.
00:07:39
Speaker
And so having to do all of that research and keep on top of the ever-changing changes that the government makes every single year to who qualifies, what qualifies, et cetera, et cetera, is just impossible for the average person if they're not paying attention to tax credits as they're primary position, they can't keep up with it. So there are other systems, there's Walters-Clor, there's CCH, there's Thomson Reuters, but for all these systems, you're going to be paying thousands of dollars for them to not even get all the information that you need.
00:08:14
Speaker
and When we were doing the research, I had actually my daughter, my oldest daughter was doing a lot of the research to look up the credits look up the information, then pull up the state website, pull up the form, look and see if there's a look back period, a carry forward period. They look for the qualifications, look for the math, because we have a calculator built into every credit to actually estimate the amount. um So it it was a lot of work. i mean, it took months you to research. Now, again, lot of these credits, we have to keep up with them because they change every single year. Changes are happening at the end of the year too. So
00:08:51
Speaker
all of that work that was already done on loading those 3000 credits in will have to be revamped and looked at again. So we have a team of researchers that, that go in and look at that information. You had some really impressive, quick success with, with rise.
00:09:09
Speaker
I mean, you, you did so well so quickly. Did you, did you think that was going to happen? What were your expectations initially? and think it's trust. And I try to, um, tell this to every single one of our my employees that not every deal that they come across needs to be one that they sell.
00:09:27
Speaker
And i think that's why my former customers, when I reached out to them, and it wasn't even customers of of HR Logix, it was customers that I had kept in touch with for my snag a job days.
00:09:38
Speaker
um It was never a sell it and forget it. I always wanted to be the consultant and be the person they could rely on to tell them the truth. And When I approached them of the opportunity just to do a tax credit analysis for them, I said, look, the best case scenario is we find nothing for you and you are already doing everything that you possibly could be doing for your business to save and lower your income tax liability for both federal and state.
00:10:07
Speaker
If we do find something, though, I can guarantee you're not already participating in it. So it's a win-win either way. Either you're doing everything possible and you're doing everything right.
00:10:17
Speaker
Or we find something that you're not participating in and we lower your income tax liability even further. So there is no reason why we shouldn't take a look at that information. And so and we did. We found some some pretty great numbers for a couple of of clients. And um you know I said, I don't and don't even really care about your WOTC. You're already doing WOTC. If you're happy with your provider, great.
00:10:41
Speaker
Stay with them. um And both of the larger customers that signed on first and second, one was 12,500 employees. The other one is 45,000 employees. um And both of them said, it was that. It was that moment that you were willing to walk away from the biggest tax credit just to save us 500 bucks on, you know, potentially on something else that we said, here here's that trust that we're going to put in you. Because we know it's not about just the dollars with working with us. and It's legitimately about you wanting to help us at that point.
00:11:12
Speaker
And so and i I believe wholeheartedly in that. If you are truthful and you lead with empathy, then people will trust you and they will refer you. And it's a whole lot easier to do business later versus having shady practices and just doing whatever possible to get the deal in the door.
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing. um Well, congratulations on all that. And I guess I have to ask then, you know, as ah as a founder myself. Tips, tricks, secrets you want to share, a formula to follow the meteoric success?
00:11:42
Speaker
Yeah. Keep your relationships up. you know Everyone, regardless of who they are. and i I've always been famous on LinkedIn for being a huge social seller and just a connector.
00:11:57
Speaker
um There have been people that reached out to me in their lifetime and just said, hey, I'm a manager at this restaurant. I got laid off. Do you have any pointers? They well, you know, I don't I'm not a recruiter. I don't help in that way, but I'll post on my LinkedIn on your behalf.
00:12:12
Speaker
And now those same people that I helped 10 years ago are now VP of operations or VP of up like h r You know, therere there are people that helped when it didn't matter if they were going to get me anything in return or any value in return, but they remembered that.
00:12:29
Speaker
yeah And so they were open to conversations when I needed the same help.
Understanding Tax Credits and Compliance
00:12:34
Speaker
Um, so i would say just keep your, keep, keep the help flowing and karma is real. It'll come back to you when, when ready.
00:12:43
Speaker
So, um, Want to go back to your timeline, want to go back to Rise, just for the sake of everybody listening, maybe you can tell them what WOTC is.
00:12:54
Speaker
um so I know that not everybody's really familiar with that tax credit. um Let's start there. And then I'm kind of curious, you know, after you launched Rise, you know, you crushed it.
00:13:09
Speaker
um how did HR Logix come back into the picture or were they there really the whole time? So let's start off by telling everybody a little bit about what WOTC is so we know and then get into that.
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah. So I'll ill speak holistically and then dive deeper into WOTC specifically because there are over 3,000 state tax credits and incentives that businesses can take advantage of across the United States. um Some drill down right down to the locality, some are federal-like.
00:13:38
Speaker
WOTC, FICA, and Federal Empowerment Zones. um So WOTC has been around for a very long time. Really, it was created back in 1978 under a different name and then took it its true name of WOTC back in 1994. So it's not a new credit. It has been around for a very long time.
00:13:55
Speaker
There are different categories that a new hire can self-identify as being. So the initial one was for veterans, encouraging employers to hire veterans coming out of of the war and just giving them a place to to be.
00:14:09
Speaker
and The mindset of the government is if employers are hiring these people that self-identify as one of the 10 categories, then they will come off of the government assistance.
00:14:20
Speaker
So either food stamps or SSI or TANF, long-term unemployed, um various different categories that they could qualify for. and So supposedly, I don't know if the stat is correct, but for every dollar that the government hands out in a credit to the employer is a $11 savings to the government.
00:14:43
Speaker
So it it's a pretty large amount. Now, if you've been following and tracking the news, WOTC gets renewed every five years. and This will be the third time in its lifetime that it's going to go in hiatus.
00:14:55
Speaker
The longest period of time that went in hiatus was about three months, but the government still re-enabled the credit and then went retroactive with credits. So what we're trying to tell every employer now is, yes, the credit supposedly expires 12-31-25.
00:15:10
Speaker
and The current president legislation you know has said, we are not going to review another tax bill until at least June of 2026. So we're expecting a six-month hiatus. However,
00:15:22
Speaker
Just for history's purposes, we know that they've always gone retroactive. So continue screening because if you don't continue screening during the hiring process, you will miss out on that capability of getting that credit. You cannot go back with WOTC and rescreen because again, it is a credit to incentivize employers to hire someone that they may or may not have hired. I say it's the only time in hiring that you can actually be discriminatory and choose one person over another.
00:15:50
Speaker
because they self-identify as one of these applicable categories. Yeah, interesting. Okay. um You know, kind of a left turn from here, but um if you had the confidence score, you know, the the likelihood that it will be renewed in about, you know, well, I guess what would be what, eight months from now in in June, is that looking likely?
00:16:12
Speaker
Yes. Yes, it is. We've, we are very shocked. um I think there is one thing that you can't predict right now and it's the current administration. It's, it's there's a lot of things that are out of left field. So when we're lobbying for different credits, you know, every legislator, senator, delegate was saying, this is going to be expanded.
00:16:31
Speaker
It's not only going to be renewed, but it's going to be expanded to it include an additional category. Spouses of veterans would now be included in And so it was very surprising that it wasn't in the big, beautiful bill. I mean, shocking to senators and and delegates across the nation from, you know Republicans and Democrats were expecting this to be in there. So it does have bipartisan support.
00:16:57
Speaker
ah So we do feel strongly that it will actually be renewed, but the timeline looks like it'll be longer than, than in years past. um So tell me about HR logics. Let's kind of jump on that. What is HR logics do?
00:17:14
Speaker
Yeah. HRLogix is a compliance hive. So it focuses on everything from unemployment claims management, employment and wage verifications, I-9, and of course, tax credits. The holistic goal of the company is to reduce the potential for um fines received from audits. So if you're looking at an I-9, there's 80% of errors that could occur.
00:17:37
Speaker
um equate to nearly $3,000 in fines if if it's an entire form that's being audited and fines found or errors found. So Logix reduces that capability, again, from 60 to 80% of most common errors that are found on an I-9. Yeah.
00:17:55
Speaker
i think a lot of businesses are coming to us either from a reseller capacity or a direct capacity with not having confidence in their existing platform to know that they are audit ready. Like they won't be fined if, you know, someone comes to the door and says, Hey, we're auditing you in 72 hours, get all of your forms together.
00:18:15
Speaker
It's sending a lot of mass panic across ah the nation right now. And it's, and A lot of audits stem from ICE raids. So as ICE raids increase and they pick up somebody that they say, hey, who's your employer? They say, oh, it's Joe Smith down the road.
00:18:32
Speaker
Now, all of a sudden, Joe Smith is going to get an audit, you know, again, with three days notice to see if he's got anybody else there that you potentially find. Applicant tracking systems, onboarding systems, payroll systems,
00:18:46
Speaker
They have other roadmaps within their repertoire. And every time the government makes change to the I-9 and says, you have 90 days to make this change, it throws off their entire product roadmap. ah So they come to us in a quiet or a reseller capacity where they want to utilize our software. We worry about all of the changes to it.
00:19:05
Speaker
um And then that way they can continue on with their existing roadmap and their goals for their own company. So kind of work behind the scenes as well as from a ah direct client perspective. And that's the same thing for all of our products. So Unemployment Claims Management as well, we're the software that runs and the system.
00:19:22
Speaker
you know Even if they do or respond to claims in-house, we give them the software to ingest those claims and respond electronically. Wow. So you're getting, organizations are really coming to you with challenges that are not only Okay, so this is this is an incredibly wide scope, right? You have the individual business that is either worried or currently having some issue.
00:19:52
Speaker
um You have you know the the large you know conglomerates and the organizations that um obviously could either be worrying about or having the issue and also then are interested in you know the the financial aspect right ah of those different kinds of tax credits as well.
00:20:11
Speaker
And then you have partners coming to you looking to essentially offload the headache. Exactly. Wow. Okay. So that's amazing. Now, your client base can be supported across you know the the employee lifecycle with HR Logix, but where you think where do you think i most organizations need the most help when it comes to their workforce? like and And do they know, whatever that is, do they know that that's a weakness?
00:20:42
Speaker
Sometimes people don't know. um We used to have another platform that I would say, no one knew it was a problem until they got their penalty letters in the mail.
00:20:52
Speaker
And I think it's going to be that same way with I-9 is that no one knows that their current provider is not compliant.
Leadership in Talent Management
00:21:00
Speaker
They just trust that they're compliant until they get audited.
00:21:05
Speaker
And now all of a sudden they are facing a really large fine. and I've had businesses that I've spoken with that all of a sudden they got a $500,000 fine. and for most businesses that would put them out of business.
00:21:17
Speaker
And so we've had to negotiate with the government to reduce their fines and show that they were ah making waves in order to be in better standing. you do that on their behalf?
00:21:28
Speaker
Yep, we do. We do. And then, you know, on the unemployment claim side of things, ah there are a lot of fraudulent claims that are are processed every single year. and We go in, we help them respond to those claims. We win on their behalf with 97% rate.
00:21:44
Speaker
And then the government still pays the unemployment. So we help them go back and say, wait, wait, wait, wait. wait we wait the The employer won that claim. you You don't get to charge them that money for that.
00:21:56
Speaker
So yes, we'll go in and identify those disparities and help them. So, you know, a lot of times, you know, maybe leadership could have missed some things, isn't paying attention to the right signals,
00:22:11
Speaker
might be ignoring or dismissing you know some of the things that might be important. you know HR is often seen as a cost center you know for most businesses. So a lot of leadership, you know especially in small business, some medium-sized businesses, they just don't pay a lot of mind to it. So I'm obviously not pointing the finger at leadership, but I'm kind of curious, you know,
00:22:33
Speaker
you know A lot of these problems can boil down to leadership problems. you know Do you feel like organizations are putting the right people into these leadership roles that have to be paying mind to all the stuff you're talking about?
00:22:47
Speaker
I just don't think they know. and And yes and no. I know I ah brought this up previously of... putting the right people in the right fit positions. you know it's It's something that was Niagara Jobs' motto years ago. And we've seen time and time again that an individual contributor, meaning an individual that works for somebody else, um is really good at their job. They're really good at being an individual contributor. And then you put them over management or leadership and they flounder because they weren't made.
00:23:18
Speaker
you know, to be a manager or they weren't trained properly on how to lead other people. um Or maybe just hereditarily, they're just not good at leading other people. They're good at their jobs and that's okay.
00:23:31
Speaker
ah But I think we have this mindset of, you know you have to progress to a certain level. You know, you have to start here and then you have to move here and you have to move here and so on and so on. And they don't think that every person should be in a leadership role or should work towards that. They could be happy with what they're good at now and and kind of keep them in that role if they don't want to progress in their career.
00:23:55
Speaker
ah So yes, you have people that probably are being put into positions that have no idea what they're doing or what they're looking at or know to poke holes in certain things because it's always been done this certain way and they're just going with the status quo. So they haven't gotten in trouble yet.
00:24:12
Speaker
yeah So why make changes? Well, i I love to talk about leadership here on um on a lot of these chats, and I love to talk about people problems, and and I think they go together most of the time.
00:24:24
Speaker
So you said something you know that kind of leads me down this path. I mean, what makes somebody a good candidate for a leadership role? How do you identify people in the organization that should be nurtured or upskilled?
00:24:43
Speaker
I always believe it's somebody that doesn't really mind about succeeding themselves, but they find joy in seeing others succeed.
00:24:55
Speaker
I mean, i I like that. I think that – I mean, I would probably agree with that wholeheartedly, although, right, there there's there's probably a a million caveats, right? But what – On the other side of the coin, what do you feel like would make somebody a poor fit for leadership, you know, or signals that somebody that's in the leadership role is not the right fit?
00:25:18
Speaker
Uses a lot of the word i versus we. um Selfishness. Honestly, I think you can peg that from from somebody all the time. what are they What are they constantly asking for? Things for themselves or asking because it'll be for the betterment of the team?
00:25:35
Speaker
So, you know, regardless of role, he you know, I, first of all, I think a lot of that makes sense, you know, we were to, and you've, I think, had this really interesting career trajectory where, you know, you were, you were part of a team, right? You worked your way up in that, in that team, you know, over the years, you have been part of multiple teams. You started your own organization,
00:26:02
Speaker
right, as as a founder, um you know, and now you're, you know, C-suite in this new organization. how do you feel like HR leaders should identify those candidates who are, you know, so we've we've talked about who we may make a good leadership leader or in a leadership role, but just candidates that are a right fit in general, regardless of role. Are there tools they can use, frameworks to follow, yeah something that maybe is a bit more outside of the box or or less semantic?
00:26:32
Speaker
Yeah, StunningJob always used a nine box review system and it was you know putting people into different categories. So you can look up nine box on Google for anybody listening um and see which one works for your organization. But and we use that as an annual performance view review where it was putting in the like kind of meets expectations, below expectations or exceeds expectations. And Even if they exceeded expectations, we are putting in them into a separate box of ready for the next level or, you know, constantly going above and beyond, doing more than what they are supposed to in their job title, but also mentoring others around them would signify, yes, this is somebody that we need to progress and put into a future role.
00:27:19
Speaker
you i'm Curious, so getting sort of more into, i think, how we see the the future of of technology. Any thoughts on the
AI and Future Work Trends
00:27:29
Speaker
direction of HR tech when it comes to recruiting and filtering candidates, but specifically when it comes to AI? You know, it's being applied in in so many ways.
00:27:37
Speaker
many of which have come under a lot of scrutiny. um you know It's helping find stronger candidates and better fits. Is it overlooking untapped talent? In your experience, what do you you know what are what are your thoughts on that?
00:27:52
Speaker
Here's what I worry about with AI. And AI right now, you're you're training it on who you want to look for. And so you're saying, I need two years experience, look for these keywords on the resume, scrape the people that meet those that criteria.
00:28:11
Speaker
What I found is that some of the best fit people didn't make sense on paper. And so that's what I worry about. If you're just utilizing a system that automatically screens in people or screens them out without actually looking at the person and really having the conversation of what they want to do, you know, what is their dream past all of the standard interview questions, ask some things that are out of the box.
00:28:37
Speaker
What do they really want to do? you know Not tied to what the job description is here. Where do you really fully see yourself? like What is your dream? And I tell that to people when interviewing them because I say, this is something that we've posted out. This job, this role is something that we've posted out.
00:28:53
Speaker
However, what you tell me right now could make me think of potential other hole that we already have in the organization that I'm might need to fill in the near future. And I would rather put you in that role than put you over here.
00:29:08
Speaker
In past lives, I have fought tooth and nail for people that did not make sense on paper. And they were always the best candidate. Every single one of them, I said, just trust me on this.
00:29:20
Speaker
Trust me. And they did. Fortunately, they did. and they turned out to be the top performers of the organization. Yeah. Biz, you you you just might be sort of that oracle, um you know, who who who knows.
00:29:35
Speaker
um I've found that to be the case often, um you know, and and I think that that's actually good advice for a lot of folks. There's so many new tools out there that use AI to, you know, essentially handle the entire process from soup to nuts for you to make it entirely hands-off. And I think that There is a lot of missed opportunity there for a lot of those folks. We'll make sure that they all contact you just in case you might be able to tell them. It's not the answer that anybody wants to hear, right? We all want to get people through the process with less headaches because they have a lot on their plates every single day. But
00:30:12
Speaker
and making the wrong decision costs the company far more money and time than just spending a few extra minutes with actually getting to know people that are getting through the process. A thousand percent.
00:30:25
Speaker
and Tell me the way that things are going to look different and in the next five or ten years. you know is As things continue to evolve, predictions for the future of work, what things are going to look like for the workforce you know in the in the relatively near future?
00:30:39
Speaker
If I had a magic wand to be able to predict the craziness that I feel like is going to happen in the next few years, and I think that pet that things are moving at such a trajectory that I can't even gather what's going to happen in the next six months because you know when you go to hr tech, you're like, that sounds like a really good idea. I don't think anybody's thought of that. Then you go there and there's 10 vendors that are already thinking of that.
00:31:06
Speaker
We have just so much talent across the globe of just constantly thinking of the next best thing or what will make their life easier in their own role and then bringing that to a company and then someone saying, Hey, we can actually create a company out of this.
00:31:22
Speaker
There's just so much talent and just so many places and tools that everyone has at their disposal now, especially with AI to make things that are great and game changers quickly.
00:31:34
Speaker
You can roll out an app and, you know, couple of months, if not less, you know, there's so many tools that you can kid you can use. So, ah it's hard for me to say what's going to happen, but I hope, I hope that there's somewhat of a return to the actual people versus pushing into tools to hire people.
00:31:55
Speaker
Oh man. Well, from your mouth to God's ears, let's, ah I, I like that very human centered prediction and and I hope that that's the case. it It does make me wonder, I have a question like,
00:32:10
Speaker
with the way that AI is taking over HR at lightning speed. you know Yesterday, what would Amazon let go of 14,000 people, right? It's citing ai right? there' there's There's no need for the position anymore. They can automate everything.
00:32:28
Speaker
And it makes me curious really specifically about your work, right? Your work is centered around hiring people.
00:32:39
Speaker
So what does that mean for HR logic, right? When we're seeing, you know, this, this new technology come into the fray that is either slowing hiring, stopping hiring, or, you know, creating this waterfall of, ah you know, where companies are just shedding employees like, like crazy. How does that affect, you know, your work and how do you see your work evolving?
00:33:07
Speaker
over those next five or 10 years with that technology change. Yeah, I mean, it is changing. And at the end of the day, to me, have you could be ever been on something where technology wasn't working properly?
00:33:19
Speaker
Technology makes mistakes. And i think there's always going to have to be someone there for checks and balances to ensure that the data being inputted is actually correct. and Because at the end of the day, even our systems through API ingestion and payroll data that we're receiving, if the data is inaccurate that we're receiving,
00:33:37
Speaker
we we can't do anything about it. And without an actual human being there to analyze the data and ensure that it's correct for accuracy, then we're submitting things to the state that's inaccurate and that can get us in trouble as a company.
00:33:50
Speaker
So I don't think that for us, we'll ever be able to fully remove the human capability or human aspect to to our work just because we're putting our names behind it.
00:34:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I like that. i and I didn't mean to get too far off topic, but it it certainly got my wheels turning, um you know, and thought it would was worth ah at least asking.
00:34:14
Speaker
But getting back to sort of leadership, you know, i want to know, you know, what kind of things should tomorrow's leaders begin to learn?
00:34:25
Speaker
today? You know are there new roles, new demands that the next generation should be prepared for? You know, whether it's things in your domain that you see them dismissing or not understanding well, or other things that you're just simply saying from a anecdotally, right, from your experience with with customers?
00:34:44
Speaker
Generational differences. Oh, man, we talk about that so much. You nailed that. Yeah, it's it's so tough. It is so tough because you almost have to put on a different hat for every single person that you're talking to and know how they like to receive information and and how they want you to receive information and what's valuable to them.
00:35:07
Speaker
um so I do think that most people should go through some sort of leadership development program. um I think that they should do a little bit of research, and but also get to know their people too, their peers around them. If they're they're really thinking about going into leadership, really talk to their peers and say, could this be somebody that I could manage?
00:35:29
Speaker
And why or why not? And what would inhibit my ability to lead them? um So it's a lot of just internal data research. Yeah. I really do love that you said that. we We do talk about those things a lot. And it's, I think also that it's one of the biggest things that tomorrow's leaders, well, frankly, it's, it's tomorrow's kind of here.
00:35:52
Speaker
It's, it's already today.
Generational Differences and Motivation
00:35:54
Speaker
I mean, the The generational mix, I think, that we're seeing in these organizations with boomers, Gen X, the lost generation in between Gen X and millennials. Everybody forgets about them. yeah Thank you. Thank you.
00:36:09
Speaker
you know Okay. See, everybody forgets about them except us. Yes, exactly. Those little three years. I wasn't there. um you know and the And the millennials.
00:36:20
Speaker
yeah Every Gen Z, whatever you want to call all of these folks, like we're all in the same place now. We're all in the same place. We're all working together, should be working together, right? Towards the same end goal. And yet, you know, we have...
00:36:40
Speaker
these sort of one size fits all or standard incentive packages for everybody. Whereas like the 20 year old, you know,
00:36:53
Speaker
might not be super motivated by that insurance and and retirement, possibly retirement. You don't really know what their motivations are, but you know that 40-year-old who's got two kids you know is going to care a lot about retirement and health insurance. and the sick you know But 65-year-old is mostly, you know probably cares about you know just taking care of their retirement. They're almost done. They don't care about student loan help, right? Like the 20-year-old.
00:37:20
Speaker
or 25 year old might. So, you know, those kinds of differences there, those motivational differences are one thing. And then you have the whole psychography model, right? Of your employee.
00:37:33
Speaker
We act different, we're motivated differently, right? You're the boomers, right? There's been studies that come out that talk about how they, the majority of them already feel motivated or or even engaged at work because engagement looks different to them.
00:37:49
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And Gen it's like 14% of them feel engaged at work compared to the you know the overwhelming majority of boomers. But are is is there really a different level of engagement or do they have different expectations of what that engagement looks like?
00:38:05
Speaker
I think it's different expectations. um So I think that a lot of the older generations feel like there is a job description and I chose this job and they chose me and therefore this is something that I need to do.
00:38:20
Speaker
So I know my expectations and I just do it. um I think younger generations are always, and feel actually kind of sorry for, for younger generations and and don't shoot me in the foot for anybody that works remote. Our entire organization is remote too, but I was having this conversation with somebody previously and said, we feel sorry for this generation because they'll never know what the water cooler talk is, you know,
00:38:45
Speaker
And so they're missing everything and they're getting their source of truth is all on social right now. And so they're not actually having these conversations or these moments at the water cooler or in the kitchen or, ah you know, just passing each other in the hallway to say, like, let's collaborate on something or let's do this. And they're seeing their peers, you know, um starting their companies at 18 and 23, and they think that they're behind. So I think that there's...
00:39:15
Speaker
this unrealistic expectation among the younger generation that they need to be CEOs and paid like CEOs by the age of 23. And if they're not, then they're left behind. um So recognition is a big thing to them.
00:39:28
Speaker
think higher wages is a big thing to them, but we also have to keep in mind ah a check and balance as well of of an organization that um I think reality is going to hit the younger generation pretty hard if it's not already.
00:39:43
Speaker
unfortunately, because I think that's the thing that I've heard from most organizations is that younger millennials, Gen z they're coming into the workforce saying, I need to make six figures within 90 days and have it basically a CEO title.
00:39:56
Speaker
um But again, I just think it's unrealistic expectations due to the way that they were raised. I call it the I want it now generation. They've never known the inability to not have something at their finger tips They didn't have to go to Blockbuster to pick up a movie. They wanted to watch something on a Friday night. You know, they just, it's on demand anytime they want to. It's on demand. They have a computer in their pocket.
00:40:17
Speaker
Yes, exactly. If there's something that I think of that I'm like, that would be really cool to make my life easier. I can just go on Amazon and look for it, you know, and it's probably there. so yeah you know, so they, they just haven't known anything else. And so they want recognition. They want it now.
00:40:36
Speaker
And they want higher wages. And they're not really sure why, but because life tells them to, you know, that they should have this higher title what have
Future Role of AI and Leadership Advice
00:40:43
Speaker
you. So, ah but organizations have to be careful with that too. Yeah. A lot of, lot of changes. They, they also never had to play on a playground with metal slides in the middle of the summer with no rails on the sides. all right. We don't have to get into all the changes. but the know The only thing that would make a metal slide. Okay. As if there was a water hose, someone arrived.
00:41:05
Speaker
Oh, man. Okay. we We'll have to take a trip down memory lane after this. But I'm curious, though, so in talking about how AI might change a lot of the shift in that workplace, right?
00:41:17
Speaker
Do you think that there's aspects of these people dynamics that are also going to change as that business landscape evolves? I think that people do need to lean into AI a little bit more as a tool to assist them to get them what they need more quickly.
00:41:31
Speaker
i i think that we can come to you know new ideas you know and bring them to fruition a lot more easily than what we could in the past. and But I don't think that AI will ever replace people. i think that we need to learn how to work alongside it.
00:41:48
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. I am in and i fall like directly in that camp. um Kind of final question I want to ask you, and I ask this a lot.
00:42:00
Speaker
Entrepreneur, business leader, CEO of ah of a large conglomerate or or enterprise. I think that you've probably worked with just about everybody in that scope.
00:42:13
Speaker
are asking or ask comes to ask you for single most important piece of advice about, about managing people. Well, about checking all of those box about not dismissing the things that they need to do right about, well, essentially we're talking about being a good leader, right?
00:42:27
Speaker
Identifying and and cultivating the talent, but the right talent, right. For the right roles. You're on an elevator up to the top floor and before the doors open and you know, they walk right out.
00:42:38
Speaker
What is that one thing you tell them? Listen to your people. It can be as simple as that. What you do with that, you know, can look different. But listen to your people. What is truly important to them and act on that and engage with them.
00:42:52
Speaker
Some of the best products that we've created in my lifetime were developed or the idea was developed by our own staff, not something externally. So it's what's going to be best for the company. What do they feel like is going to be best for the company from a product perspective, from a leadership perspective, from just benefits perspective, wage perspective, what is important to them? Because you're not talking to your people, then you're probably going to make the wrong decision.
Podcast Conclusion and Call to Action
00:43:19
Speaker
i love that. Thanks, Biz. I appreciate you joining joining me today. was really fantastic having you here on Behind the Build. Yeah. Thanks again for having me. This was great. And thank you all for joining us. Please like and share this episode.
00:43:34
Speaker
Also, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss our next installment. And then head over to mustardhub.com to learn how we help companies become destinations for workplace happiness. and turn culture into a competitive edge sign up to be one of the first to get started with mustard hub for free while you're there until next time