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The Gift That Keeps on Giving with Nat Salvione
4 Plays1 month ago
Nat Salvione has spent more than two decades in the gift card and rewards industry, and his passion for the work hasn’t dimmed. As Chief Commercial Officer at GiftBit, Nat leads the company’s expansion and partnerships while championing a simpler, more meaningful approach to incentives. In this episode, Nat and Curtis dive into why gift cards have a uniquely lasting impact compared to cash, drawing on compelling studies that show how employees remember not just receiving a gift card—but what they earned it for and how they used it. Nat reflects on his journey from reviewing fraud transactions in the early 2000s to shaping modern employee recognition programs, sharing personal stories that highlight the emotional resonance of well-designed rewards. Together, they examine where most recognition programs miss the mark, how companies can remove friction while staying financially sound, and why understanding individuals—not just budgets—is the key to building recognition that truly sticks.
About Nat:
Nat Salvione is the Chief Commercial Officer at Giftbit, a digital rewards and incentives platform that helps organizations connect more meaningfully with customers, employees, and partners. With over 20 years of experience in the industry, Nat leads Giftbit’s expansion, partnerships, and go-to-market strategy. He brings a deep passion for the gift card and rewards space, helping businesses unlock innovative ways to engage and build lasting relationships.
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Guests
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello again. It's time for another fireside chat. This is Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build, where I sit down with people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes.
00:00:18
Speaker
Today's guest is Nat Salvione. Nat is the Chief Commercial Officer at GiftBit. a digital rewards and incentives platform that helps organizations connect more meaningfully with customers, employees, and partners. With over 20 years experience in the industry, Nat leads GiftBits expansion, partnerships, and go-to-market strategy.
00:00:40
Speaker
He brings deep passion for the gift card and reward space, helping businesses unlock innovative ways to engage and build lasting relationships. Welcome to Behind the Build, Nat. Appreciate you joining me.
00:00:54
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah, it's pleasure to be
GiftBit's Alignment with Mustard Hub Values
00:00:56
Speaker
here. i yeah I've been really looking forward to the conversation because GiftBit has been a fantastic partner to MustardHub since we were just getting started.
00:01:08
Speaker
um Also, you're about a lot of the things we hold dear here at MustardHub. Rewards, recognition, incentives, engagement, relationships, connection, etc.,
00:01:21
Speaker
ah Not only that, but you've been about these things for a large part of your career. So let's take a look
Nat Salvione's Career Journey
00:01:29
Speaker
back. How did you end up working in the space that you're in now? You've had a long career in gift cards, which is pretty unique.
00:01:38
Speaker
Well, for sure. And and it's a niche it's ah it's a niche specialty. And, you know, it's not that great at parties to just say you're in the gift card space for 20 years. But, know, I love it.
00:01:49
Speaker
I personally love it. Uh, yeah, I started, um, actually in corporate America late. I got my first job, when I was over 30 years old and it was a kind of a tier three customer service job, which did fraud.
00:02:05
Speaker
ah we did fraud evaluation for online, um, purchases is, is, is for a gift card company. Actually they were called gift certificates back then. And, um, or we were, we were going to be,
00:02:17
Speaker
one of the dot-com booms in the early 2000s. And were growing fast and had a lot of online purchases, but um people were often trying to steal the gift cards with stolen credit cards. So we were reviewing transactions.
Impact of Gift Cards as Rewards
00:02:31
Speaker
And there I just started to understand how, ah first of all, how desirable gift cards were. Everyone wanted them. um And then ah although the business was was retail focused, the most exciting part of the business was of giftcertificates.com was the fact that businesses started to use them for rewarding their employees. And ah i just, that was very exciting. And I just kind of followed that, um that thread all the way till today.
00:03:03
Speaker
That's pretty cool. When did you see that really start taking flight with employees, but just specifically in the workplace in general, I'd say. ah Yeah, the, um it was really,
00:03:16
Speaker
It was really from my early days giftgevers.com. The most exciting part of the business was us trying to compete as an online.com space, but the most profitable and the most successful part of our business were the companies that were using um gift cards. And, ah you know, gift cards...
00:03:39
Speaker
if you if you look at the National Retail Federation, they do a study of what what people want for the holidays. i don't know what what year we're on right now, but it's like 18, 19 years in a row, gift cards are the most desirable requested gift for someone on on the holidays. And um everyone everyone wants them. And when businesses were giving them out, um they just worked for the employees.
00:04:07
Speaker
a lot of a lot of companies, common common sense would be, hey, let's let's give our employees cash because everyone likes cash, which is true, but it's not memorable. There was a study done.
00:04:19
Speaker
This was probably maybe my my landmark moment was there was a study done in, the I think, 2012, 2013, where they asked employees what they would like to get. everyone said they wanted what they what they would like to get and everyone would said they wanted cash, but after they received their reward at work, they asked what they remembered getting and everyone remember getting gift cards. In fact, two out of three people that received a reward at work forever, for as long as they ran the study, remembered getting a gift card.
00:04:49
Speaker
Number one, they remembered getting the gift card. Number two, they remembered specifically what they did to get the gift card. And number three, they remembered what they spent that gift card on.
00:05:01
Speaker
And, um, If you ask someone that got cash, they might remember they got a ah vague deposit, you know direct deposit in their account, but they'd never be able to tie it to what they write did or what they spent it on. And so that what the word I used there was impact.
00:05:17
Speaker
Gift cards had a real impact on the on the um employee when you when they received it as a reward. It really does. you can't If you get a deposit, you can't necessarily tie back to when you used those real dollars.
00:05:32
Speaker
on whatever type of meaningful purchase maybe that you may have made. You can, however, when you hand over the gift card or you use a digital gift card, tie back in your mind, right? Immediately the action that you took to get that or who it was that gave it to you or what the occasion was that you received it, right? And and you're tying that back at the time that you're using it, which is like you said, pretty incredible incredibly impactful.
00:06:00
Speaker
um I just, I tell you one quick story. yeah ah ah Early days at giftstreetchurch.com. I, I, um I made, I wasn't in the sales department, but I made a sale just from the ah interacting with ah with a company. And my manager at that time gave me an REI gift card and we're talking 20 years ago now.
00:06:20
Speaker
And I was a new dad and I use that REI gift card to get a bike and a, and a, and a trailer to for my son to ride in. Yeah. So 20 years later, this is hugely impactful um to receive that gift card. for Yeah. And you still, and you still remember it.
00:06:36
Speaker
That's incredible. So what, what brought you two gift bit and how long have you been there?
Joining GiftBit: Nat's Experience
00:06:44
Speaker
um I'm, I'm approaching three years now and the, the gift card and incentive space, at least in the United States and actually globally,
00:06:55
Speaker
It's a relatively small community of of people that have been doing it for a long time. And so I i ran into Leif, our CEO at Giftbit, early days.
00:07:08
Speaker
And he was, where it was, the company was called Kind back then. And we we just kind of hit it off and we have stayed in contact throughout throughout the years. And ah during the pandemic, I was working for a ah company in ah London at the time, and that was proving just logistically challenging because yeah my, I would have to wake up at five in the morning for the first meeting. It's already 2 PM in London. So it was, it just, for me, it was, it was like ah the days of hustling were a little bit past me. That was, that was a little bit rough. thanks and appreciate Leaf and I, we we, we started talking and he, he was ready to push the gas pedal on gift bid and, and, and start to expand the go to market motion. So we, yeah, I joined in,
00:07:54
Speaker
let's see what that would have been 20, 2023, um, January. And so you okay that's awesome. So just to ask for everybody who, who might be watching or listening to this, tell us a little bit about what is gift bit. Can you, can you give the audience a little more context on what gift bit is and what gift bit does?
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think gift bit, who we are we're we're a small company still sort of in the startup mold although although the company has been in existence for 10 plus years um and based in ah victoria canada or maybe we might say calgary canada now but we have we have employees both in the us and canada and um What we really, in essence, we try to do is simplify the operationally complex task of sending gift cards um around the world.
00:08:53
Speaker
And um there are other companies that do this, but I think what we bring is a straightforwardness. I think this is really our differentiation is um Sending a gift card is ah is a high volume, low margin activity because it's it's effectively like a ah financial transaction.
00:09:15
Speaker
So a lot of companies, a lot of companies in our space, unfortunately, um optimize ah friction in the action so that they can they can earn some money on unclaimed or unused gift cards. And we we have, ah from day one, have thought this isn't a good model because we really want the rewards to work. And for them to work, you know, people need to receive them and they do enjoy spending them. And so we've we've brought a straightforwardness I'd like to say transparency, but that word just feels overused to me these days. So um we like to use straightforwardness where we yeah we can share at every level of the of the ah the interaction what's happened and give our customers a clear view into how their rewards program is doing. And then then then second is ah we've really designed
00:10:08
Speaker
um what's a What's a complicated financial technical interaction for for humans to understand and use? So we've we've we've leaned into simplicity there.
00:10:22
Speaker
I love that. um Also, one of the reasons that we love GiftBit. you know mustard so So Mustard Hub does work with GiftBit, but to speak more generally, maybe you can tell us the kinds of companies that come to GiftBit. um you know What does that look like? what do they What do they often look like? And why do they come to GiftBit?
GiftBit's Market Differentiation
00:10:41
Speaker
What are the reasons that you find folks will come to GiftBit over some of those others like you talked about?
00:10:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think this is one of the reasons I've i've loved this space for so long is ah every company in every vertical and of any size really has a need for rewards at their company.
00:11:02
Speaker
So like many, many B2B companies, like we would consider ourselves B2B company, they optimize for maybe a vertical or a company size platform. But for us, vertical and company size are irrelevant. It's really about the use case.
00:11:16
Speaker
How are people using rewards? So if there's an incentive-based program or a need for rewards for your customers, really, you're ah you're a great candidate to to use the GIFBit platform.
00:11:28
Speaker
um And we ah we have two primary users. want One is more project-based, where maybe the company doesn't have the resources to integrate to the api for an ongoing rewards program and they just need to send out a batch of rewards we've really we've really um developed a platform so people could do that and then second probably our favorite type of customers are like the mustard hub companies that that have a ah need to to integrate gift cards into basically their platform and so gift cards
00:12:04
Speaker
I assume, um as I'm talking to you, i'm I'm assuming gift cards enhance the Mustard Hub platform and make your platform better, which is what we we really love to do. We like to be behind the scenes and watch our ah customers succeed in using rewards.
00:12:19
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you kind of nailed it there. um Definitely working behind the scenes to, I think, help make um Mustard Hub better, right? um You know, without GiftBit, I think that we'd certainly be lacking some some pretty powerful elements of, you know, what we what we do Um, so how do you, in your role as chief commercial officer, how do you work with these organizations, right? What is your role with them?
00:12:49
Speaker
or do you, or do you have one? Yeah,
Nat Salvione's Dual Role at GiftBit
00:12:54
Speaker
that's a great question. I think that has evolved. Um, right, right now I, I view myself as having two, two roles. One, um interacting with the customers for me is, is really a joy. I, I,
00:13:09
Speaker
I hope this doesn't sound corny at all, but I do really, really enjoy hearing about how our customers use rewards. And there's always a sense of amazement and wonder um for a rewards program that really works. And so, um, I enjoy interacting with customers really just to, just to expand sort of my, even my worldview of rewards, uh, after having done it for so long, there's still time after time where a company, you know, um,
00:13:36
Speaker
maybe their entire maybe their entire employee base has gotten healthier because they've used rewards to encourage healthy actions. And to me, that that's amazing to hear it. And second, really, as um
00:13:51
Speaker
right now, i also the second thing that really brings me joy at work is watching my team succeed. So I have seen a lot in in the gift card world and I i don't enjoy really directly um helping anymore. I'd rather much rather work through through my team. So the sales and account management and partnerships role, I really like to to you know embolden them to to take risks and to be the leaders that I hope that they all can grow into be.
00:14:25
Speaker
Also the sign of a very good leader. um but But very cool. So you know obviously, One of the big reasons that we're talking today is because of our our lasting partnership with GiftBit. and And you guys have been fantastic partner in helping our our customers recognize their own employees, right?
00:14:45
Speaker
um So may on on on a scale of one to 10, or maybe you can give me some feedback on do you think most companies are doing recognition right for their workforce?
00:15:01
Speaker
How do you feel about that? um I actually, I would say no. um I might even give it a one. If you're talking about like and in industry-wide or or and incorporating all companies of all sizes, um yeah, I would i would lean more way more towards one than 10 on that scale.
00:15:23
Speaker
Now, we we like strong opinions here. Tell me why. What is it that you see um where leaders are really... um Lacking leaders or or they're their companies, right?
00:15:36
Speaker
ah Yeah, I think... um ah So, yeah, this is this is probably a probably a the heart of the issue, which is in order to effectively recognize um someone, you really have to understand the individual.
00:15:55
Speaker
And um a lot of companies... approach recognition like a, like a project, like they would rolling out their health benefits plan. And, um and that would just miss, it that misses the mark.
00:16:10
Speaker
ah I remember ah early days at one of the, one of the companies I worked for is a large company, is a public company. um ah The HR department had decided we weren't we weren't recognizing the employees well enough and engaging them. So they formed a committee and the committee
Critique of Corporate Recognition Strategies
00:16:31
Speaker
met a few times. I was on the committee and, um, I was so frustrated because everyone was talking about generalizations and, um, budget and, um sustain all the, all these things about a program, but there was no talk about like the people that were working there. So I think the,
00:16:54
Speaker
program ended up being like you could send someone a kudos and he counted the kudos and when they got enough kudos they could bring the kudos to the HR desk and the HR desk would hand them a gift card and and no one use no one used it.
00:17:09
Speaker
It was too complicated. ah First of all, no one likes walking over to the HR at least at that company. I don't know about all companies. but um Definitely a friction point for sure. yeah and so it it seemed like it met the needs of being in their budget and fair and all the things that people try to um box in, and which I get it. I get, I understand that concept, but there wasn't the thought that, you know, one person might like to be quietly thanked and another person might like to be publicly recognized and another person might like a gift card. And for sure, people like to pick their own rewards. um
00:17:47
Speaker
And so, yeah, I think, um, that that was that experience. And then ah the the second thing is, is the the to understand a person intrinsically and what might motivate them, ah you really have to take the focus off yourself and what's good for you and think about that that person. And that's that's um that's really hard for an organization to do.
00:18:12
Speaker
So in order for that to be effective, you might need to actually trust the people that know that that person well like ah their team lead or their supervisor or their manager and empower them to recognize them in a in a in in a way that would make sense but that would decentralize the rewards program and the recognition program which is very hard for um leaders to do is they like to they really like to control and um you know
00:18:42
Speaker
know that everything's sort of buttoned up. And it might get messy, but you know messiness sometimes is very inspiring for people. I almost hear that you know there's organizations that that so carefully plan out this like recognition strategy to develop a culture that that winds up being performative at best simply because it lacks really the authenticity, um which would come from just understanding the human and and doing
Recognition Imbalance: New Hires vs. Long-term Employees
00:19:18
Speaker
it because you want to be human and you want to humanize.
00:19:21
Speaker
Right. And it has sort of less, uh, about the, the corporate optics and more about, um, you know, let's just do this because we like each other.
00:19:36
Speaker
And we want everybody to feel better. Exactly right. Yes. um So I'm curious then, like, you know, if if you wanted to look at it maybe a little differently, what would it look like when an organization is really nailing it?
00:19:53
Speaker
how do you describe, ah you've probably worked with some of these before, or you've, or you've seen it, you've had some customers like that. What do, what do they look like? What do they do when they're really doing it right?
00:20:05
Speaker
How would you describe that?
00:20:09
Speaker
Yeah. So what one thing I wanted to mention also, I'll, I'll answer that, but I, I wanted to mention so another thing that I had seen, and I think it will play into this. And that is that, um,
00:20:23
Speaker
especially ah entrepreneurs, um and i'm not i'm I'm not speaking about it, I'm speaking generally from my experience, um ah and companies themselves, um they really celebrate their new hires.
00:20:39
Speaker
And um if you if you look on LinkedIn, just just browse through your LinkedIn feed, you're going to see the people in your network with a photo of their new hire pack, their water bottle they got, their shirt, their laptop, and how excited they are to join this company. but try the But look through the feed and find out how many people are celebrating another year or just an average moment at their company.
00:21:06
Speaker
um Yeah, companies, they don't celebrate their existing employees. Oh my God, I love that. I love that you're bringing this up because like now that you pointed out I was just on LinkedIn this morning and like, you're a hundred percent right.
00:21:22
Speaker
Yeah. We, it's almost like the um rom-com movies, um, that end when the, when the, the couple gets together and there's, there's no real, there's no real celebration of what a, what an actual marriage would be like. Um, and it's kind of like how we are in the, in this space. And I,
00:21:41
Speaker
I had a, I had a, I worked for a CEO at a past company that absolutely celebrated and would send out these glowing emails when a new person joined, like their whole background.
00:21:53
Speaker
um But, but ah I don't want to say disregard, but it's just like um maybe overlook the contribution of the employees that have just been laboring. And The other thing I noticed that causes probably a lot of toxicity in in workplaces is there are your core group of people that have been there a long time that hold all the historical context, know why things do are the way they are.
00:22:21
Speaker
And every new employee that joins just has to feed on that knowledge like go like a piranha. And eventually over time, you're just you're you really um dismotivating the core important group for the organization. So when I see an important and a successful recognition program, it's less emphasizing the new people and it's it's way more recognizing the actual contributors, the quiet people that week after week are delivering value for your for the company. And the second thing is that the go to market team, because they interact with customers,
00:23:02
Speaker
um often have ah a lot more visibility within an organization. um So I ah also ah really like to see companies that highlight um just the just to the people that are contributing in their quiet ways.
00:23:19
Speaker
um And then I think the third thing ah that that I've seen is, ah and this has been studied, so this is not new, but oftentimes,
00:23:31
Speaker
ah a growth path for a person in a company, eventually they have to become a manager or, or there's no more, or there's no more path
Decentralizing Recognition for Success
00:23:39
Speaker
for them. And, um and then the resources and training and investment into becoming a good manager isn't there.
00:23:47
Speaker
You just have to sort of wing it. And, um you know, managing is, is, is hard. it's difficult and learning how to think less about your success and about other people's success, you need a whole change in perspective.
00:24:01
Speaker
And it's not easy to have a change in perspective. That's one of life's hardest lessons. So I think yeah sitting down and considering all of these things for your organization um really would, as the as the foundation, and then thinking about right recognition after that is really important.
00:24:18
Speaker
So when it comes to building a rewards and recognition program, so let's let's imagine for a moment in in fantasy land and hopefully not so fantasy land, let's imagine for a moment that we want you know this authenticity, that we don't want something that's simply performative for corporate optics.
00:24:40
Speaker
We're building a rewards and recognition program. What should leaders keep in mind to, to do it the right way. I mean, do you have any suggested steps for them just to even get started?
00:24:53
Speaker
Um, yeah, so rewards and recognition that they go, they go together. And, um, uh, first of all, the, the realization that there's a lot of ways to recognize people and what, what, want some what some might motivate some person may not motivate another, but knowing if, um,
00:25:15
Speaker
your employee would love to be shouted out on Slack um or ah would love to you know have it a day off or um would love to be enrolled in a in a continuing training or be sent to on a trade show to represent the company. like All of those might ah motivate people in different ways.
00:25:40
Speaker
So, um, yeah, first, the first thing to kick off the program is to, um push the recognition all the way down to the lowest level and, and let go, let go of the control.
00:25:53
Speaker
That would be the first thing is we don't, we don't, uh, want a corporate recognition strategy. We want to put the recognition in the hands of the the managers. And then second, and this is ah the cool thing about gift cards is everyone loves gift cards.
00:26:08
Speaker
Everyone. Um, And ah a lot of a lot of leaders, they like to be innovative and like, well, everyone gives gift cards, so let's do something different and and let's give parking spaces or let's give water bottles. But um and every time someone tries to do something different, it it it fails because you're imposing what you want on onto the employee.
00:26:30
Speaker
The beauty about gift cards is the is the person who gets the, who receives the reward can choose what to spend on. And many people amazingly with gift cards, many people don't use it for themselves.
00:26:46
Speaker
A lot of times they give it away and yeah um you know, especially someone who has been working ah lot for their company and, maybe wish they could do more at home and they received this gift card. And it's a good way to actually treat, treat your family members.
00:27:03
Speaker
And you can say, I, I, I received this for doing um something at work. And it, even that, that kind of wholesome interaction because of what happened at work is, it's way more.
00:27:18
Speaker
so they won't And just for the, just for my, maybe the audience who's listening, um, GiftBit has an integration with hundreds or or thousands of of gift cards. So you're really putting the power of choice in the recipient's hands because the recipient now has an opportunity to um you know I guess redeem write a ah gift card I mean, you name it, everything from Amazon to Starbucks to Home Depot and Guitar Center and Wine of the Month Club or literally everything and anything in between. So, um you know, the nice thing is it's not just handing over a gift card to a big box retailer, but rather um the opportunity for the receiver then to redeem it.
00:28:08
Speaker
Any number of places that might be meaningful, important or impactful to them. Like you said, if they want to, you know, use it for their family in some way, right? There, there might be, you know, dozens and dozens or more of things, you know, specific to that, you know, that interest. There's movie theaters, airline experiences. go Exactly. Experiences travel, right? So it's, it's pretty incredible. So all of a sudden,
00:28:36
Speaker
you know, a manager might not need to stand in line at
Digital Rewards vs. Physical Gift Cards
00:28:41
Speaker
CVS, Walgreens, grocery store, whatever to purchase all of these gift cards that they're hoping to that they're hoping their employee is going to like and want and use, right? so So you're also, you know, not just are you putting so much power in those managers' hands now to be able to put this program, you know, we'll call it in in air quotes, program,
00:29:05
Speaker
um together to do it in a meaningful way because they know what their employees are are like. um but But you're also saving them time and you're able to allow them to make an impactful gesture now even more efficiently. even though I kind of hate to use that word in this context because we're talking about being human and authentic and like efficiency doesn't necessarily need to be in there, but it is. Well, I mean, that's an important point because the um many companies to this day buy gift cards and keep them to hand out and if you do that um you have to kind of pre-select what you think people will want and oftentimes they're like well amazon has everything so that's a safe gift card to give and they're not wrong but um not everyone loves amazon and amazon doesn't can't deliver experiences
00:30:02
Speaker
I visited a company a few years ago and they were talking about their rewards program and um they had put some thought into it. They had bought four gift cards, four packs of gift cards for stores that were around the office so that someone, when they did something ah you know worthwhile would receive one of those gift cards and they wanted to let the the employee choose. So they made a kind of a ceremony and they had it, they had them laminated in like, in,
00:30:32
Speaker
I would call it a, I'm Gen X, I would call it a trapper keeper, but it was something where they opened up and all the four were there and they would call them in and say, here, pick which one of these. Well, one of their employees who was a high value employee, but hard hard to figure out what they would want, earned one of those gift cards, walked in looked at the four and say,
00:30:56
Speaker
then said, you don't know me at all and didn't pick any and left. So what was supposed to be an amazing experience turned into kind of a flop and then everyone felt bad about it. um And it would have been so much better if they if they had said, hey, you choose what gift card you want and we'll buy it. Now that's not operationally efficient, but that's where giftki the gift bit comes in as we We can handle all ah all ah all of that and send send each employee a link to choose their gift card. And they feel honored because you're putting that the putting their responsibility to choose on them. But it's also very easy to do.
00:31:32
Speaker
I love that. It's like it is operationally efficient gratitude. It's operationally efficient love. There you go. i just You can send that to your marketing department.
00:31:43
Speaker
that That one's free. but that is funny so But it's really, it's it's in a sense, that's that's really what GiftBit is able to almost help with with us, with Mustard Hub, and what it's able to deliver to its customers customers, partners, uh, et cetera, is that operationally efficient, you know, love, you know, and, and, and gratitude, which, you know, goes a pretty long way.
00:32:17
Speaker
I'll say one more thing too. Yeah. And by the way thank you. Operation efficient gratitude is, uh, well, I'm taking a note. I think we're both going to steal that. The other thing that I think, uh,
00:32:30
Speaker
We have a concept that um it the the reward needs to be a certain value. and in order for that to fit in your budget, the accomplishment needs to be ah pretty large. So it's not it's not uncommon for a company to have employee of the quarter or employee of the month.
00:32:47
Speaker
But anyone that's been part of those programs knows that it's not really employee of the quarter. It's employee, it's someone who did something good in the last week of the quarter, because that's what everyone remembers. and um So ah what what we advocate and what I love to see are more frequent, smaller rewards because you know everyone knows that building a habit is not an overnight thing.
Effectiveness of Small, Frequent Rewards
00:33:13
Speaker
It's a lot of behavioral changes little by little by little.
00:33:16
Speaker
um But it's also not operationally efficient to give someone a five to go to the store and get a $5 gift card every everyone every time someone does something small. So that's another example of why an API-driven ah the digital reward payout on on triggers, which is what you can build with GIFBIT, we can actually help change habits with behavioral small frequent reward payouts. Yeah. out um That's really strong. I mean, it's such a strong value proposition, you know, trying to, and I was just having a conversation even this morning about about that recency bias, right, that you find in so many magic managerial assessments, or when you have these sort of collective recognition circles, you know, where you get together once a week, once a month, once a quarter, and everybody's just trying to jog their brain over the last 24 hours, 48 hours on who they want to recognize rather than,
00:34:15
Speaker
you know, where's this cumulative um value or lie with, with all the individuals, right. In the organization and being able to do something like you're talking about helps sort of even avoid that, that recency bias and make sure that those folks who, you know, have really been at it quietly delivering value every single day, um you know, have an opportunity to, you know, be rewarded in some way for that.
00:34:42
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah.
Recognition Strategies Beyond Generational Stereotypes
00:34:44
Speaker
um you know i'm kind of curious so i've had a lot of recent conversations about like a multi-generational workforce um you know do you your gen x you mentioned that me too do you do you think that engagement and recognition look different um differently across generations the the consensus is that Things that fuel Gen Z, you know, and make them feel appreciated and and and take care ah taken care of are really different than what baby boomers are looking for. Or maybe, you know, Gen X. Thoughts on how to find common ground?
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's an interesting um question because it does it does go back to, I think, I think, Dividing groups into generations is helpful in like a macro view. But ah again, i think ah it really comes down to the individual.
00:35:42
Speaker
Although um the entire the entire incentive industry in the U.S. as we know it, um it started right around the Great Depression because there there was a ah man, you know Mr. Maritz, I forget his first name.
00:35:59
Speaker
he sold ah watches and when the great depression hit, he had a bunch of watches that he couldn't move because no one could afford them. So he started selling them to businesses to hand out for, um, you know, when they retired or after they'd been there for 10 years. And that, that, don't know if people still remember, but getting a watch at work was a big deal for, for the boomers. And there was a big, um,
00:36:25
Speaker
you know, it was more common to work for a company for 20, 30, 40 years and and and earn your watch. And today, obviously, generationally, the whole system of working and in a place has changed. But one thing hasn't changed, and that is um people stay and thrive where they feel valued.
00:36:45
Speaker
and um And I think, honestly, um a digital gift card today can span any generation.
00:36:57
Speaker
maybe 10 years ago at our company, we would have these meetings where does the older generation know how to use a digital gift card? And maybe they still need a ah yeah plastic gift card because they're used to taking things out of there. But we're underselling just how pervasive technology is today and and also how much everyone loves loves a gift card. I mean, back to my my original stat.
00:37:18
Speaker
um Even though we like to pick out ah Christmas gifts for people because it's fun to pick out a gift, um oftentimes we we don't quite hit the mark when when we when we buy, especially for someone that we don't know very well. But ah anytime you get a gift card for someone and they redeem that card, they will remember who they got across all generations.
00:37:41
Speaker
um and and And it's the perfect reward. and And we could – I guess technically we could we could redeem a gift card for Breitling or a Tag Heuer or Rolex if we really wanted if we really wanted to at the end of the day.
00:37:57
Speaker
um But you you brought up something interesting about you know the changes right in the world of work. And you know what i'm I know there's there's some some statistics right that you know in the next five years or so we're probably going to see upwards of 60% or even more of our workforce actively engaged in the gig economy, right?
Inclusive Recognition of All Contributors
00:38:24
Speaker
um Not necessarily full-time, but at least in some capacity. You know, any thoughts on how to appreciate engage not just, you know, folks who might be casual employees, contractors, part-timers? What about remote employees in a distributed, you know, team? Like, how do you...
00:38:43
Speaker
How do you recognize and support folks across all these different styles of work and different worker classifications? Yeah, um that's a great point. i And I know i don't not claim to be able to speak to those macro ah trends. However, I have seen um that if someone is delivering value to your company, no matter what their classification is,
00:39:10
Speaker
um it's worthwhile to reward them. And it is very demotivating um to have an all-hands meeting for a company. Invite your maybe your 1099 contractors or your part-time employees or the work-from-home folks, and then roll things out that only benefit the FTEs. um there's ah if there's a quick way to just um show you don't care, is is this and to talk and and even classify, even to talk in groups when you're when you're um when you're addressing the entire organization.
00:39:46
Speaker
um Again, this is more of a human-centered thing, but you're talking about people, and you're talking about someone with feelings, and someone when activated, um when nourished or cherished,
00:40:00
Speaker
can thrive and add value to your organization, you obviously view them as having value because you have this financial arrangement with them. Right. um Why not, why not lean into that and get it the most value as possible? And if, if for your own company structure, it's important that they stay contract. Well, that's, that's more of a, that's more of a legal or ah or organization structure thing. It it shouldn't really,
00:40:26
Speaker
ah it shouldn't really interfere with the way you value them as people that are using their time and energy to add value to your organization and to deliver value to to your leadership.
00:40:38
Speaker
you're I mean, that right there, i think is such a strong point. I'm a huge fan of this answer too, because um you know whether they're full-time employees or they're contractors, they're still getting paid to you know, build your dream, right? it Well, if you're the business owner, right? Or, you know, build somebody else's dream, right? There's there's there's a there's a financial arrangement, like the way you put it, right?
00:41:08
Speaker
ah For them to, you know, to to promote some behavior from them, right? That's going to add value in some way, right? They're going to be doing some work for you and the work will hopefully make your organization, you know, better, more profitable, whatever it happens to be.
00:41:25
Speaker
um And they're all human, right? So what difference does it make, you know, what the letters are next to their name or what type of taxes they wind up having to file at the end of the year, if they're part of the team in some capacity, ah excluding them is certainly, ah in in my opinion, and estimation and I feel like you're you're sort of on the same page there, um pretty toxicical pretty toxic way to go about treating everybody in your organization.
00:41:53
Speaker
So I, I, I very much appreciate that. Um, I want to keep looking ahead. Any predictions on what the future of work is going to, is
People-Focused Leadership in the Age of AI
00:42:01
Speaker
going to look like? I mean, what do you think leaders need to be preparing for in the next five, 10 years?
00:42:06
Speaker
Uh, well, what I would like to see, um, you know, I, I, I realize there's a lot of talk about AI and AI, um, and a lot of fear. And honestly, people don't, they don't do their best work when they're afraid.
00:42:20
Speaker
Um, that's, ah that's a given. And, um, ah and also the every, you know, companies, they need to, they need investors um and and investors need to, need to feel like they're showing value by um making suggestions for how companies do. But ah honestly, investors don't know the business.
00:42:41
Speaker
and And the last thing I would say about ah entrepreneurs, and and again, this is a generalization. Something I've seen is what makes someone a good entrepreneur, um maybe a little,
00:42:53
Speaker
sprinkle of narcissism, a little a little dash of paranoia, um a little a big dose of like get it done. it it doesn't make good leaders for organizations. um And what hope to see, maybe this is what I hope to see, is people is people being um you know, doing work on on themselves and and realizing um where they're short, especially in their concern for their employees as people.
00:43:26
Speaker
and um And I think an organization that has a good blend of um use of technology, but is a people first and really cares about their people, I think they're going to they're going to win in the long run. when When we have AI, we all have access to the same information at this point.
00:43:45
Speaker
um And it's what it's it's what you do with that information and how you trust the people to use it. And in order to trust someone around you, you have to be okay with them, you know, making mistakes and learning on the go and being vulnerable and authentic. And those are things that um every company would benefit from having at the top.
00:44:11
Speaker
Yeah. We do all have... Infinite knowledge, I guess, or at least access to it. One last thing as we wrap up here, um always love to sort of ask, you know, to get different perspectives on this, but, you know, business leader came to you for advice on on how to really get it right.
00:44:32
Speaker
Building their team, building alignment across the organization from day one, right? You're in an elevator almost to the top before you see them walk right out the door. What's the one thing that you tell them?
00:44:44
Speaker
Yeah. So if if I'm an elevator ride, I would ask them two questions. I would say, how do you personally, how are you motivated? And those who work directly for you, can you tell me what you think, how they're motivated and um what you would do to make the, even the close, the person you work closest with, what could you do right now to give them a good day and to maybe add a little bit of, uh,
00:45:10
Speaker
you know, dance in their step on their way. And if you think about that, then think about that rolling all the way through your organization. um Don't, yeah, you don't think about it as a as a blob, but just think about yourself and and the person closest to you. And I think you're on the way to building a good program.
00:45:27
Speaker
Well, can definitely spread spread some cheer throughout the organization. It's got to start in one spot, right, and then permeate outward. So I love that. That's great advice. I appreciate you so much for joining me and speaking with me today, Nat.
00:45:40
Speaker
um It's been awesome having you here. Yeah, yeah. This has this has been a ah real joy. ah Thank you. And for all you who are watching or listening to the episode, thank you all for joining me again for Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Please subscribe, like, share, and comment.
00:45:57
Speaker
Be sure to check us out at mustardhub.com to see how we help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge. And sign up to get started with Mustard Hub for free while you're there. Until next time, thank you.