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At Craft Beer's Coalface
415 Plays25 days ago
"Our goal was always to showcase every beer at every brewery as if it was our own."
Joslyn Erickson works in a unique but essential part of the beer industry. She runs Hop On Brewery Tours alongside partner Matt Farrelly, which the pair launched nearly a decade ago in Queensland. Back then, Brisbane had only six craft breweries and the Gold Coast was home to just a handful of breweries and venues where you could find anything other than mainstream beer.
It means Joslyn has enjoyed a front row seat to take in craft beer’s growth in South East Queensland, observing how the culture and attitudes have changed, whether for better or worse. At the same time, she's performed a crucial role stewarding at some of the country's major beer awards.
Will Ziebell and Craig Williams caught up with Joslyn to talk about the importance of embracing beer tourism, ways she believes breweries can find new customers, and her passion for beer education, which has seen her launch The Lauter Tun on Instagram.
Ahead of the chat, James and Will discuss a new series from Rob Horner on the impact of global beer cultures on Australian brewers, Mick Wüst's second deep dive into life at Fermentis, the lessons learned by Your Mates over their first decade, a joyous collab event featuring Deaf artist Gonketa, and the benefits of joining our Crafty Cabal beer club.
If you enjoy the show, please consider liking, subscribing, rating or reviewing!
Start of segments:
- 13:30 – Joslyn Erickson Part 1
- 41:13 – Grainstock 2025 Preview
- 45:48 – Joslyn Erickson Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Will's Return and Stone & Wood's Sale
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. How are you going there, Will? I am doing great, James. and And you're borderline in Victoria right now. ah yeah, back in Renmark, which my family and I have a bit of an attachment to. This is actually the the same bank of the Murray where I did the interview about Stone and Wood selling to Lyon many years ago when we were um avoiding the final lockdown in Melbourne and we just stayed in SA for a couple of months rather than coming back to that.
00:00:34
Speaker
um So this is our our final stop. By the time this show goes out, um I will actually be in my own bed, in my own house for the first time in in three months. um Bit of sadness that the trip coming to an end at the same time, I'll be able to get my laptop fixed and not be relying on this sort of tractor-like 2011 model I've been trying to survive on for the last month since my screen died.
00:00:54
Speaker
But yeah, so next week, I was about to say, well, next week I guess we will be recording this intro together in Melbourne. But the travel doesn't end because we'll be heading straight off to um the Riverina for for grain stock.
Grainstock Event Preview
00:01:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we might be recording it somewhere on the side of a highway anyway, depending on how we go next week. But yeah, can't wait for grain stock. I mean, tickets are still available. I believe there's bus seats available um as well from some of the capital cities. So if you want to come, ah now's the time to grab a ticket.
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. and yeah yeah And there'll be a bit of a chat with Stu coming up late in the show, a bit more of a heads up of what's happening there. The programme, we've seen the programmes looking pretty yeah dense and high quality. So yeah we'll be up there for a few days recording a few more podcasts and just enjoying the networking, I guess.
00:01:40
Speaker
Yeah, I absolutely can't wait. And
Inclusive Beer Tasting with Gongetto
00:01:42
Speaker
um speaking of fun events last week, I just wanted to give a shout out to, ah we we spoke about it on the Have You Done A Rallying segment a couple of weeks ago, Craig and I, but I went to the Stomping Grounds event with Gongetto, who's also known as Jacob. he's He's a deaf graphic artist. We've written about him before. He's part of this group in Melbourne, ah in melbourne a collective called Auslan Beer, where they ah review beer basically using Auslan. and um It was an incredible event. There were 60 or 70 people there, primarily from the deaf community. um
00:02:16
Speaker
I mean, it was a it was a full house. ah They sold out, but also Jacob or Gongetto went a bit off the yeah off the brief and just invited a lot of other people along as well and told them to come and buy
Creating a Unique NIPA with Chili
00:02:28
Speaker
some beers.
00:02:29
Speaker
And there were even people in so on Stomping Grounds, ah you know, Instagram posts commenting like, has anyone got any tickets? Like it's a sold out gig or something like that but it was incredible to witness this uh beer tasting they went through the beer they brewed uh together but also the stomping ground call range and all ausland interpreted it was just an incredible thing to say i'd never experienced anything uh quite like it really and how was jacob or gogetta's uh nipa or hazy that he brewed It was excellent. Yeah. So they had ah two versions and one with a with chili added.
00:03:04
Speaker
ah They made him dial back the chili a little bit because in his mind there's there's no such thing as too much. so um But it was still nice and present. And if you wanted to guess in terms of Auslan, what do you imagine someone might have a bit of trouble with interpreting?
00:03:22
Speaker
Like what sort of maybe beer... term or ingredient or something like that. Is it is it hazy? and No, no. it's um the The biggest problem was
Belgian Australian Beer Culture
00:03:34
Speaker
Equinot.
00:03:35
Speaker
Right. Of course, the hot names. Yeah. yeah once you Once you get into just words that are quite made up or sort of bringing multiple things together, it gets a little bit more difficult.
00:03:46
Speaker
Imagine being a car dealership for some sort of you know Japanese motor manufacturer as well. All those words are made up. Yeah, yeah, true. jerry So yeah, I just wanted to shout out Gungeta the Stomping Ground crew. it was ah It was a really incredible event.
00:04:02
Speaker
Excellent stuff. Well, and I guess, you know, you're talking adjuncts in beer there. If there's a country that uses more adjuncts in beer more than Belgium, I'd be very surprised. um And we've put a story, an article like, story maybe he doesn't do it justice, like ah an in-depth feature, I'd say, and almost like a thought piece that's been a long time coming from... I've kind of been thinking of it as a love letter.
00:04:23
Speaker
love love letter to Belgian Australian beer. Yeah, by Rob Horner, done a couple of pieces for us. Well, thats this is the second piece for us now. Done set a few pieces for Good Beer Hunting back when that magazine was still around.
00:04:36
Speaker
um And it's, yeah, he's he's sort pitched an idea to us last year where he wanted to look at how, I guess, Australian brewers were interpreting different beer cultures from around the world. ah Started off with Belgium, chatted to Anneliese from Maddox on the Gold Coast, Brian from Artisan in the Great Southern, and Jason, he's Newcastle based, he's behind the International Beer Collector, been bringing over fantastic beers from Europe for a long, long time.
00:04:59
Speaker
um And obviously
Your Mates' 10th Anniversary
00:05:00
Speaker
he's got their take on I guess, how they brought Belgian culture to Australia, you know, how they feel about how they're doing it. um But also, I think there's a lot of his thought and a lot of his sort of feelings on on it. And it's I think next he wants to look at sort of Bavarian sort of German Czech style beers and how they're done over here. um And it's going to be an occasional series, but um not just the love letter element to it, but he's also um done some fantastic illustrations to um sort of decorate the piece as well.
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah. i'd say the personalized illustrations were really nice as well. First time we've done anything like that on the site. I'm pretty sure I say that confidently, but first time I'm aware of anyway.
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, for sure. um So, yeah, so we'll obviously include that in the show notes. um And, yeah, hopefully people really enjoy that. It's ah it's a you know a deep dive read, but it's a fantastic piece of and that's a piece of writing.
00:05:51
Speaker
um Will, um I guess we we mentioned Gold Coast there, a little little bit up the coast, Sunshine Coast. You had a chat to Hep from your mates who are turning 10 this month. Yeah, 10 years. 10 years of Lowry, importantly. That was their first beer.
00:06:05
Speaker
ah It was great to... um so So they provided 10 lessons of 10 years, which is but something we like to do, to ask people to sort of reflect on what they've learned um when they reach a milestone like this. And it was really interesting to chat to you. You know, they started ah in wholesale primarily. It was a long time until they had a venue. So...
00:06:22
Speaker
You know, it's that ah kind of a classic story that you you struggle to imagine happening too much anymore when most places are venue-led. They're, you know, i've I've barely ever seen their beer in Victoria. They have very deep roots in South East Queensland and the Sunshine Coast in particular, which is obviously such a busy beer region. But it was great to chat Hep about some of those lessons along the way and how they managed, you know,
00:06:48
Speaker
to almost where they've had moments where they've almost sort of grown and tried to go a bit national and then held themselves back. And they think that's worked to their benefit yeah as well. And also always interesting to hear, you know, he's like, there's still people 15 minutes away from your mates that have never heard of us.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah. ah which which might seem mad to us, but we're in a bubble. They're like, there's still so many people they can grab. it and And they are a brand, I think, that really know who they are. They have a very strong drive and tie into outdoor activities, recreational activities, fishing, all that kind of stuff. um So that they were poised, I think, to capture maybe a more mainstream audience, but there's still a huge amount of people they're not talking to and, um yeah, really trying to reach them as well.
Fermentus' Yeast Project
00:07:34
Speaker
which reflects nicely on our main guest this week. Before we get to that, however, and we're another feature we put out on the site this week, Mick Wurst returned to Fermentis over in Europe pretty much exactly a year ago.
00:07:47
Speaker
um he did a piece with, a so yeah I guess, Life Inside a Sensory Lab in the company of one of their leading sensory experts, Dr. Gabriella Montandon. And on the back of their, I guess, the launch of their superior yeast project, he's gone back there and had a look at how um that the Fermentus Campus works and how they're sort of looking to develop, um you know, playing playing around with, you know, developing new yeast or trying yeast in different places, doing a lot of research. I guess a real sort of, you know, behind the scenes of big yeast, as he as he calls it in the title.
00:08:17
Speaker
um You know, we we probably spent a lot of time talking to some of the the smaller producers, but, you know, at the same time, there's on that scale, they've got access to funding and labs and, you know, 50 small brew kits, you know, in the one campus.
00:08:31
Speaker
um So that's another bit of a deep dive in in typical mix fashion there. But yeah, the the main guest I was referring to in relation to, so your mates and, you know, and I guess craft beer still having a lot of people we can reach out to um is Joss from
Engaging New Craft Beer Customers
00:08:45
Speaker
Hopon Brewery Tours. And that's one of the, I think the point she gets across is there's still so much work to be done by breweries to, you that will find new people and bring new people into their into their business.
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Joss was a very obvious guest for us to get. She has a unique role, I think, in beer, not just from Hop On Brewery Tours, which she runs with Matt, but also as a steward as well. That's how a lot of people in the Queensland, Brisbane beer industry know her. She was head steward of the indies too. So yeah, just a very different perspective, I think, from lot of guests we've had before. And I think it's a very rewarding chat to listen to.
00:09:21
Speaker
yeah Yeah, for sure. and um And talking of rewarding, actually, and we're not necessarily the best at pushing our own our own, I guess, offering. But she did talk about how and the cost of, say, tasting paddles could can get a bit prohibitive at some breweries these days. And you know maybe breweries need to look at them as more of a loss leader.
00:09:39
Speaker
um But of course, if you're a member of the Crafty Pints beer club, the Crafty Cabal, There are many breweries around the country offering two-for-one tasting paddles. So if you think 20 or 25 bucks for a tasting paddle, especially if you're buying one for yourself and your mate or your partner, is a bit prohibitive, then sign up to the Crafty Cabal and you could be enjoying two-for-one beers and two-for-one tasting paddles at many places around the country.
00:10:00
Speaker
i'm I guess on that note as well, we have a competition running at the minute to win one of the Rocky Ridge and HPA beers. um It's the vibe of it, Mix Packs, ahead of our live stream that we're doing a live tasting about these beers. So these are six beers that Rocky Ridge have done showcasing six Australian hops with a nice sort of castle theme.
00:10:20
Speaker
um And the Mix Packs have already sold out, which is great. um But we we are giving a few away to Crafty Cabal members. um Just one of and a number of giveaways, actually. We've got ah some matriarch packs and on offer ahead of Co-Conspirators' upcoming Matriarch Day. And also, if you're heading to Phillip Island this weekend during the school holidays in Victoria, there's a rare opportunity to visit Green Gully Brewings a Farm Brewery, where Luke is offering Cabal members two-for-one beers and a free pretzel. So if that sounds like your kind of thing, then jump online at craftycabal.com and sign to become a member, and we'll make sure we look after you.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yes, Gwen Garley, a wonderful brewery. I'm surprised they haven't yet been nominated for a Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month. I'm sure that's on its way. Or you could jump online right now and nominate Luke and what he does, his wonderful funky farmhouse beers, by going to craftspint.com slash bluestone.
00:11:13
Speaker
um And, of course, um yeah if you think Luke, the former ah lead singer of a Melbourne cult thrash band back in the 80s, is more of a good beer citizen, you can nominate him in our Have are You Done a Rallings podcast.
00:11:25
Speaker
campaign, which is craftypint.com forward slash Rallings. Um, anyway, probably about time to get to the chat with Joss. So we'll enjoy it. And if you do make sure you leave us a like comment or review to help people find the podcast.
00:11:37
Speaker
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00:11:55
Speaker
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00:12:09
Speaker
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00:12:19
Speaker
Fermentus has long been at the forefront of active dry yeast development and with the launch of Superior Yeast has yet again raised the standard with another game-changing evolution.
00:12:30
Speaker
Significant investment in their dry-phase production and packaging facilities has raised the microbiological quality of Fermentus beer yeast to a whole new level. With fewer contaminants, Fermentus Active Dry Beer Yeast is better and more reliable than ever. Their new look packaging features customisable labelling, globally compliant markings and unique QR codes for improved traceability, as well as easy access to production data and product information.
00:13:01
Speaker
And when you're ready to pitch, Fermentus' patented easy-to-open technology, incorporating their trademark Percy device, ensures a more sterile environment when pitching yeast.
00:13:13
Speaker
With less risk of cross-contamination, brewers can craft their best beer with confidence time and time again. Find out more at Fermentus.com and talk to your Bintani representative today.
00:13:31
Speaker
Jocelyn, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for the invitation to join you guys. It's pleasure. It is our pleasure
Educating Through The Lautatun
00:13:39
Speaker
to have you. And one of the reasons we wanted to have you on, there's many reasons, but you've just recently launched a new sort of focus or Instagram account called the Lortatun. Do you want to tell us a little bit about it?
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, it's um been really exciting. I've actually been working with Craig through the Pink Boots team. a society mentorship program, which has been fantastic.
00:14:02
Speaker
And the idea is taking some of the information that we would normally share on tour with our guests and breaking it down into bite-sized bits that doing just little kind of two-minute reels on Instagram to try and educate the wider population who can't come on tour with us. So it's kind of teaching people what they didn't know they didn't know about beer um and spirits.
00:14:26
Speaker
Yeah, nice. And and is this sort of a, there's a few there already that you've put up a few little reels and yeah it seems to be sort of breaking down some of the kind of the myths behind beer.
00:14:37
Speaker
Give us a few examples there, Joz. ah So the ones I've done so far are talking about draft beer and how draft is a serving method, not a style and cerveza being again a generic word for beer and not necessarily a style and there has been a little bit of pushback in the comments and people talking about how things evolve and how things change and i do understand that it's all meant to be taken with a grain of salt um and then there are a few that i have on the pipeline talking about beer bellies and, um you know, talking more about dark beers and heavy and light beers and what that means.
00:15:15
Speaker
And then there are a few that I have kind of up my sleeve that I'm really excited about talking to other people, having them join me and have a bit of a conversation about, I don't know, more unique flares that people perhaps have added to their beers. So The idea is not just beer focus. That's the main part of it. But it's the tagline is separating fact from fiction in beer and spirits. So talking about things like how gin makes you sad.
00:15:44
Speaker
Well, why is that the case? Kind of breaking that down. And yeah, just those little bite sized bits of information that somebody can really quickly watch and go, oh, didn't know that. And then keep scrolling.
00:15:56
Speaker
ah And I mean, where whered did it sort of come from in terms of these questions you're getting asked on brewery tours or things you feel you actively need to get across? Like like where's the genesis there?
00:16:08
Speaker
It's a little bit of all of that. So a lot of them do come from tour. um The case in point with the cerveza, I was talking to somebody two, three weeks ago and they said, oh, that's that's a lager. And I was like, well, yeah, now, but that's not really where it all started.
00:16:24
Speaker
um So it it does come from tours. It comes from um just talking to people who aren't beer drinkers and kind of what they say or what they think, whether It's just in casual conversation. And the reason I wanted to do it is because beer education is so much of a focus of what we do in the business, but it's also something that I want to start to, I guess, elaborate on, on a more personal level. So, um,
00:16:53
Speaker
it's It's taking that idea of of expanding this knowledge for people outside of the industry and ideally leading into more events and um doing tastings and pairings and things like that. And just what we always work towards in the industry, which is...
00:17:12
Speaker
we we have our own little echo chamber, right? Where you can talk to you guys, or we can go down to the the brewery down the road and have a chat with them. And they go, Oh yeah. Did you know that this matches with that? And you can do all these crazy things with beer, but what is it? 95, 96% of the people in Australia are still happy to drink Forex and great Northern.
00:17:31
Speaker
and there are just so many misconceptions around it. And I just want to, want to break it down a bit. i do I do think it's a it's a really common thing when you're inside that beer bubble. You can you really can get wrapped up and I think particularly in the in the big cities. and you know It was a big eye-opener for me moving from Melbourne to the Sunshine Coast, you know a regional
Beer Promotion Differences: Sunshine vs. Gold Coast
00:17:53
Speaker
holiday destination and you know if you you work a couple of shifts behind a bar and it becomes apparent really, really quickly just how minimal awareness craft beer or beer education or anything has outside of that little bubble. And yeah I think it's great. I think what you're doing there, just trying to, you know, broaden that knowledge is fantastic.
00:18:15
Speaker
Thanks. Well, I mean, but take that and amplify it because the Sunshine Coast do a great job of of advertising their beer. And there is so much more, I think, connection with the local communities and the environment. And you see a lot more of.
00:18:30
Speaker
places like Mullaney Dairy and people are very aware of that. Whereas on the Gold Coast, it's all glitter strip. That's how they sell it. And so there's even less of that kind of connection to the producers, the makers, the ones that are actively out there trying to focus on these kind of small independent products instead of you know what you see on kind of a tourism scale.
00:18:53
Speaker
and empty there's a sorry what Do you think there's a disconnect with you know brewers and so on? like is there I guess, is there an opportunity for brewers to you know maybe go and run a tour or do ah do a few shifts behind a bar? or Or are they getting those opportunities to be face-to-face with consumers as much as I guess maybe they were in the early days?
00:19:16
Speaker
No, probably not. And I think we've seen that across the board. When you go to festivals, i'm there are fewer festivals and they're kind of on a different scale than they used to be.
00:19:27
Speaker
And I think in a ah way that's good, right? We've seen the growth of craft beer. um If you look at something like beer and cider, it used to be really small. It got to be quite large and focused on the music, but then your focus does change because it's a bigger space. You're trying to get more punters in. It's just that that changing, um,
00:19:45
Speaker
goal, I suppose. I think on the coast, it's a challenge enough to get people into your venue. Everybody's fighting for the tourism dollar and fighting for that.
00:19:55
Speaker
And I don't think there's necessarily the support that the brewers need to showcase their products. So I don't think it's their fault necessarily that they're not in front of the consumer as much. I think people try as much as they can. I think there's a disconnect of people coming to the Gold Coast and maybe Brisbane as well of understanding that that not everything is corporate.
00:20:17
Speaker
I don't know if that makes sense, but because they are these big tourism draw cards, you forget that they're these mom and pop businesses that that need their dollars. Whereas I think on the Sunshine Coast, I think they do a really good job of highlighting the independent, the small, the bespoke.
00:20:33
Speaker
And that's one of the reasons people love going to the Sunshine Coast, because it just feels a world away from all of that. And do you think like, you know, are there other things you'd like to see in terms of the education
Current State of Beer Education
00:20:44
Speaker
space? Obviously, your you're taking it on yourself um and trying to to get these messages across. But yeah, I kind of wonder if we have faded away from that a little bit um since beer got to a sort of maybe a a certain point, a certain ceiling where There are a lot of breweries, so you kind of go, well, people understand and people do know what an that it might not know what an XBA is, but they want to drink an x yeah XBA or a hazy pale. So there might be and another side of that of being like, well, job's done, isn't it?
00:21:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think that there is a lack of education on the whole. i think it's really interesting um because there's always such a high staff turnover at a lot of the breweries because they are fundamentally hospitality venues.
00:21:30
Speaker
So you go in and there's a high turnover of staff who work at the bar. And there's very much this generational change as well of people who aren't drinking. We've all read the articles and the stats and there's lower beer consumption.
00:21:42
Speaker
But the amount of times I've walked into a brewery and will ask somebody, oh, there's this new beer on top, what's it like? They go, oh, I don't actually drink beer. And you go, cool, cool. Great place for you to be working or their celiac or their whatever.
00:21:56
Speaker
Not to say that they shouldn't be there, but it does make it harder because you think, well, then what are you telling your consumers? And there are times where I've been at a bar, I've been waiting for people to pour our beers for a group, whatever.
00:22:08
Speaker
And another random punter will come up to the table or to the bar and say, oh, can you tell me about this? And the person behind the bar is like, oh, I don't really know. And so me being me, I will just start talking to them explain to them what that is. Or they'll say, oh, I don't know if I like this. Can you tell me about it? And I'll make the recommendations.
00:22:28
Speaker
But I'm not the one who's working there. And I've seen it across multiple venues. And I think that that's a shame. um i think... There's a lack of understanding even within breweries of the process of the ingredients. I think some do it better than others, but yeah, I think lack of education, even starting with staff who's serving the beer is really like, we're missing a huge chunk of that.
00:22:55
Speaker
um And then I think within Queensland, and I know it's different in other states, the lack of opportunity to have fresh local beer at a majority of venues, um you know, tap contracts and this and that, which people have talked to death.
00:23:10
Speaker
But you do see people fighting over these few taps. And so nobody is going to go in to a bar and go, oh, Forex, what's that? I've never heard of it. um And so there's that lack of opportunity to even present people with something new and something different.
00:23:25
Speaker
That's fantastic.
Evolving Beer Culture and Consumer Interaction
00:23:26
Speaker
And, and, um, yeah, does it feel like it's changed a lot in your time since when, when did you Matt start hop on? Uh, just over nine years ago, we started running our tours.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah. Because it would have been such a different world, right, in terms of like often in in those early days of craft beer, it was people who made the beer working in the tap room. Hospitality experience was probably far worse as a general sense and they were less good at the hospitality.
00:23:54
Speaker
But there was sort of someone there who intimately knew the product and it was a small um community too. Yeah, it was. It was so interconnected and you could find the brewer still.
00:24:07
Speaker
um Even up until I would say even up until the pandemic, um you found a lot more of that connectivity, I think. And at least we saw it also with opening hours from venues. And that was actually a big change after the lockdown is places opened a lot later.
00:24:25
Speaker
But having earlier openings actually allowed us when we did our tours to be on site when the brewer was on site because they might not leave until midday, but we were maybe in there at 10, 30, 11 o'clock. And so there was a bit of that crossover and people had more of that connection to see, oh, they're, you know, they're mashing in or they're canning or they're doing whatever. Whereas now that aspect tends to be done before the doors open to guests for them to come in.
00:24:54
Speaker
Um, you also, i feel like you just saw a lot more collaboration and a lot more joy. Not that people aren't happy now, but I think when we started nine years ago, we had six breweries in Brisbane.
00:25:07
Speaker
Like that was it. You know, it was Newstead, it was Green Beacon, it was Bacchus, it was all in. And so there was more of this, everybody kind of had a connection to somebody else. They were more aware of what the other breweries were doing. they might have gone in together to buy load of strawberries that they split three ways to all do their own strawberry beer, whatever it might be.
00:25:30
Speaker
Whereas now it seems to be much more individually focused. um And for better or for worse, obviously, people are fighting to keep their own doors open. So the last thing on their mind is a collaboration or this. But we've noted that even between Brisbane and Gold Coast, people don't know each other.
00:25:49
Speaker
Owners don't know each other. Brewers don't know each other, which is so strange for us who don't. are lucky enough to know most of those people. And you go, it's only 60 Ks away. Like, how do you guys not have this chat going on?
00:26:03
Speaker
And so I feel like that's really, i I think that that's changed from an industry standpoint.
Comparing Beer and Wine Tours
00:26:10
Speaker
And then the consumer standpoint would be completely different because now people feel like there's a huge range and it's almost choice overload that I think people go back to the OG, what they were drinking. And I think we've seen a shift of people going back to the mainstream beers because they go, ah, too many choices. You walk into a bottle shop.
00:26:31
Speaker
Where do I go? What do I do? I'll just stick with this because I know it. I trust it. It's been around forever. Hmm. It's interesting, just starting nine years ago, and and I completely agree, I think there was probably a lot more um value placed on the idea of of brewery tours and and working with businesses such as yours to to bring new people into um a person' a brewer's business or whatever it might be.
00:26:56
Speaker
um To hear that's changed over the years, i completely understand where that's coming from. do you Do you think just from the the idea of the tour business, is there still a public appetite for brewery tours or food and drink tours? And are you still seeing that that traction?
00:27:13
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. We definitely are. And people get more than they anticipate when they come on tour with us. Not to make it sound like an ad, but um people come on and they're like, oh if you've ever done a wine tour, you know that the sample sizes are quite small.
00:27:29
Speaker
um Even doing something like the Forex tour, they're very, very small, you know, kind of thimble size little tasters they get. And when we say, oh, you get all your tasters included, I think people come on and they're like, oh, you know, it's not going to be very much.
00:27:43
Speaker
And it's mainly thinking of us as drivers. And then we get into the education at the very first start. And we um you know are talking about the production and the ingredients and the different flavors that people go, i had no idea, but are so happy at the end of it because they feel like they have got the value out of it and go, oh my goodness, there's so much to know. And you go, ah we're going to tell our friends this when we go to the pub or we're going to get other people to come on board.
00:28:11
Speaker
because there is definitely an appetite for learning and kind of going back to like the, the louder ton is that idea of showcasing the fact that there are so many varieties and so many little tweaks that you can make.
00:28:27
Speaker
People think of wine as being, Oh, this complex drink and not to take anything away from wine. But there are heaps more varieties of beer than there are of wine.
00:28:39
Speaker
And yet people still think of it as this homogenous drink. And so it's breaking that down. And I think people i think people love it. um I think that there is and unexpected aspect to our tours. When we say it's education, but go how much is there to learn? And then you showcase and they go, had no idea so much was involved.
00:28:59
Speaker
So yeah. People want to learn, but I don't know if they know where to start or what questions to ask. And hopefully we can give them a little bit more of that. um I don't know, a few of the bullet points that they can take away. So next time they go in somewhere, they can go, OK, these are the things that we learned or remember or want to ask for or look for.
00:29:21
Speaker
I do wonder if if the wine industry has kind of um kept that new audience in mind a little bit better than craft beer. And, i you know, if you imagine the the marketing funnel and you you want to fill the funnel with newbies, people who are curious but don't know anything about it, and you want to drill them down to the the pointy end beer consumer.
00:29:41
Speaker
Do you think that's why people go on wine tours? I think people absolutely, i think the wine that cellar door experience of people going into a winery, every winery does it. They will always have the the piece of paper with the the glass things on it, the tasting notes and so on, and they will happily take anyone through ah tasting, um they haven't gotten to the point where they treat everyone who walks through the door like a pointy end wine consumer yet, which I kind of feel like craft beer, we're sort of doing that a little bit.
00:30:09
Speaker
yeah I think we need to get back to that point of welcoming the tours or the making the brewery experience or the beer experience approachable for yeah the Forex drinker or the Great Northern drinker who might be curious about what else is out there.
00:30:23
Speaker
Yeah. And you do hear a lot of commentary about people feeling like they're not good enough to be in there or they get talked down to because they don't know the difference between a hazy pale ale and an XPA or whatever it might be.
Craft Beer Marketing Challenges
00:30:35
Speaker
We really try not to do that. I just think it's really interesting because I would never, i guess when I see people doing wine tours, I'm sure there is a huge percentage of people who are curious about it, but I also think it's something that people know exist.
00:30:48
Speaker
And I think that that's our thing is after almost 10 years is people don't necessarily think to do a brewery tour. Again, going back to that to that idea that beer is this homogenous forex.
00:31:01
Speaker
So why would you do a tour for that? And I think in places like in the States, in Canada, there is more of that. um I mean, but I also think that wine tours and this goes back almost to this odd gendering of of liquid, which is strange, right? Like girls do wine tours like a hen's party. Go, you get the pretty pictures out in the vineyards and it's sundresses and all that.
00:31:26
Speaker
Whereas beer is for boys. And we definitely do get more bucks parties than hens tours. But I wonder. if we were in high country Victoria or Tasmania, where they grow all the hops and you had more of this opportunity to say, come with us and you get pretty pictures surrounded by vines, if that would actually change the demographic and it seems so crazy and so superficial.
00:31:51
Speaker
um But I do wonder sometimes if that would change, if you're like, look at these Instagram shots that you could get. That's a bit intense, sorry. No, no, that's a wonderful tangent. um Yeah, I suppose...
00:32:03
Speaker
You've got to, yeah, that thing about people knowing about it, like it's so ingrained in a culture of okay, end of year celebration, we're going on a winery tour. This is where we're going. Like whether it's end of uni hens,
00:32:15
Speaker
birthdays, those kinds of things, like it's what you do, but, um, getting people to that level with beer is a bit harder. And I often try to organize things like that and still have to spend far too much time explaining what that you can walk between six breweries or whatever.
00:32:31
Speaker
It does make me wonder too. I feel like there could be something learned from the wine tour experience. Um, Craig, like you were saying, you go in and it's pre prepared in terms of they know which,
00:32:45
Speaker
wines are going to serve you, which order to serve it in You end with the dessert wine. They have the explanations there. I'm sure that there's the opportunity to curate your own, but maybe they only have eight wines and you get a small taste of each of the eight wines.
00:32:59
Speaker
And often they do it for really cheap, if any cost at all, because I think psychologically there's a bit of guilt. If you get something for free, you're likely to buy a bottle because you're like, oh, they gave me these tasters.
00:33:11
Speaker
And you can set up subscriptions right there. How many, I mean, we did it. You know, you walk in, you do wine tour and you become a member. And all of a sudden you're getting these wines. And have not thought about it before until you brought it up. But like, I've never seen a brewery have a subscription program with the exception of somebody like Black Hops and their home guard.
00:33:33
Speaker
I can't think of anywhere else that I've
Subscription Models for Breweries
00:33:35
Speaker
gone into. And they're like, hey, we can actually release, you know, a different beer every three months and we can send you a 12 pack and you subscribe to it just like you would subscribe to wine.
00:33:45
Speaker
um and And maybe that's something things that they're missing. Maybe that's another selling point. But I think the price of paddles is also putting people off. Like it's putting us off.
00:33:57
Speaker
You know, if you go into a place and you're paying 20, $25 for four or five beer tasters, that's a lot of money. And then you might not buy a pint afterwards or a schooner afterwards because you go, well, I just, you know, for two of us, we just spent $50.
00:34:13
Speaker
It's, and I know that there's a lot involved and it's a cost thing, but I kind of miss the days where you could go in and they were, you know, $5, $10 for a tasting paddle. Cause then you're likely to do two or three, try all the beers and then stay for more.
00:34:27
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Maybe it's a bit of a, you know, it could be smaller serving sizes or it could even be treated as ah as a loss leader or that's your marketing budget right there to invest in getting people tasting your beer.
00:34:40
Speaker
Now, Joss, our very avid listeners might detect a bit of an accent that you've got going on. i You hail from the States. i do.
00:34:51
Speaker
I wasn't going to say Canada. I was going to get it hopefully right. Was that where your kind of interest in craft beer stemmed from? to tell Tell me more about where it all
Joss's Craft Beer Journey from Portland
00:35:01
Speaker
began.
00:35:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think it must have. um I am from Portland, Oregon, so, you know, kind of a... Pretty good place to fall in love with know, right? Pretty good place to forge a love of beer um and was just surrounded by...
00:35:16
Speaker
good beer and and access to it. And i don't, it's been a long time since I've lived in the States. um But it was easy, at least in Oregon.
00:35:27
Speaker
They sold beer in the supermarket. They sold beer at the 7-Eleven. They sold beer pretty much everywhere. And it was roughly the same price as your mainstream beer. A six pack, I don't recall being way more expensive than Budweiser, Miller, Coors, any of those.
00:35:43
Speaker
And we're talking things like Full Sail and Bridgeport and Rogue and things like that, that um Sierra Nevada, that you could go in and get a six pack for six or $8. And so even as a very poor underage student, ah you could still get a decent beer. So I don't, I don't,
00:36:07
Speaker
think it was such a big step. I feel like here you're either a beer drinker or you're a craft beer drinker. I don't feel like there was that delineation when I was growing up. um But yeah, it it must have started my love for My family is not big, big drinkers.
00:36:22
Speaker
um So it wasn't necessarily around But my best friend did date a guy who was a home brewer. And it was kind of in summer between, you know, college terms. And I do remember having some home brew and he was a beer writer.
00:36:38
Speaker
um And now he actually is a cider maker and judge. And I mean, it's crazy to see his trajectory. Yeah. But the funniest thing is, i ah in my head, I've always been a beer drinker.
00:36:50
Speaker
And recently I was watching a video because my dad loved home videos. And I was rifling through the fridge trying to find something to drink. And I literally pulled out a bottle of Bridgeport IPA and went, IPA, i don't like IPA. And I put it back in the fridge. Like, oh, if only I could go back.
00:37:07
Speaker
um But it took a while to wait. to build up to the bitterness level. I definitely drank a lot of amber ales, uh, when I first started, cause I have a sweet tooth and that was kind of the perfect intro, the nice sweet caramel.
00:37:19
Speaker
And then that got me, that got me started. Did you, um, when you moved to Australia, first of all, when was that? And did, uh, did you land in Queensland? Cause it would have looked very different. I'm sure you couldn't find an amber ale too easily.
00:37:34
Speaker
No, I couldn't. So I moved here almost exactly 15 years ago. So like within days will be my 15th anniversary in Australia. And I remember, so Matt and I met in Mexico and he knew that I liked beer and he had a six pack of um Carlton Fusion in the fridge for me. So, Carlton Dry with Lime, basically. RIP, that was a classic.
00:38:00
Speaker
Yeah, I remember opening the fridge and being like, what is this? Like, this is this does not count. And the first beer that we bought together was Blue Tongue.
00:38:11
Speaker
And we bought solely because i liked the packaging design. There was a lizard on it. Everything else was kind of in a blur, I remember... Somebody giving us hot hog at a cafe that no longer exists in Surfers Paradise.
00:38:27
Speaker
And I remember that the CFO at the company I used to work at was married to one of the founders of Stone and Wood. And she used to bring Pacific Ale to those really awkward ah Friday barbecues where it's like, oh, everybody gets to hang out and it's horrible.
00:38:42
Speaker
And nobody would drink it. Because there would be Corona and 4X summer and everybody drank that. And so she used to bring Pacific ale and um I swiped a six pack of that and took it home with me.
00:38:54
Speaker
And that was kind of the start, I think, of actually going, OK, there are a few choices. You just have to find them. But hot hog, I think, was an absolute game changer.
00:39:06
Speaker
I think Hop Hog has a ah lot to it's probably to blame for a lot of craft beer nerds getting into it. You've kind of got two out of the three there with Hop Hog, Pacific Ale, and the the only one you're missing is Little Creatures for the sort of trifecta.
00:39:21
Speaker
I don't actually remember the first time I would have had a Little Creatures. I remember, i don't know, I just don't remember it being quite as ubiquitous. And maybe once I had Hoppog, I didn't want to go back.
00:39:32
Speaker
And then it led to things like Brew Cult and stuff that you could find a little bit more um in like obscure bottle shops and things like that. Yeah, wow. What was Blue Tongue? Was that was that um John Singleton's beer, the advertising guy?
00:39:47
Speaker
I would not be able tell I'm pretty sure it was a lager. That's about all. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yes. Back in the days when advertising moguls bought beer brands and yeah maybe a few America's Cup yachts.
00:40:03
Speaker
I have to say there was a really good pub that used to be on the cold coast called Not Tonight. um And it was in Southport and it was right on the tram. And we used to go there with friends. So there was a guy named James Graham who used to write for the Crafty Pint many, many, many years ago.
00:40:18
Speaker
um And we were friends with him and we to always go and have beers there. And they'd always have such a crazy range that um I remember, I feel like that was one of the places, first places we had Killer Sprocket.
00:40:30
Speaker
It would have been one of the first places we had Brew Cult. So the focus was very much on independent restaurants. back then and we're talking, and don't know, probably 12, 13 years ago.
00:40:41
Speaker
um So that's, I blame them. I blame them for having good beer. Interestingly, James Smith's middle name is Graham. So I often, there was a period where I wondered if this James Graham in Queensland was ah was just some kind of pseudonym for James, some some kind of tax write-off. But um I think we'll come back and have a great chat about how you guys started Hop On Brewery Tours, but let's take a quick break first.
00:41:07
Speaker
Cheers.
00:41:13
Speaker
G'day guys, Craig here from the Crocky Pine and we're back talking all things grain stock. It is an all new industry symposium and beer festival coming up from the 9th to the 11th of October in the heart of the New South Wales Riverina. Now in past episodes we've talked a lot about the conference side of the event but today it's all about the beer festival.
00:41:35
Speaker
um Joining me today is festival organiser Adam Gaffey to give us the lowdown. Welcome Adam. Hi, Craig. thanks Thanks for having me. no very excited, mate. i'm ah I'm looking forward to the festival. Now, tell me, the we've got the conference on the Friday, tour is on the Thursday. The festival is the main deal on the Saturday.
00:41:55
Speaker
For the beer lovers listening, what can they expect from the beer festival side of it?
Grainstock Festival Details
00:42:01
Speaker
Yeah, so we have a great line-up coming um this year. Obviously, this is our first year doing it, but we've got, but to say we've probably got about 45 to 50 breweries coming. like Just to name few of some of the the rock stars that will be joining us.
00:42:16
Speaker
ah Three Ravens, Big Shed Brewing, um Felons coming all the way from Queensland, obviously. um There is Goodlands, King River Brewing, Mitter Mitter,
00:42:29
Speaker
um I could go over the list, but really it is too long. our Stomping Ground are coming from Melbourne, Walsh Tower, Marrickville, Sydney. um So the list goes on. So, yeah, that's that's pretty much what they can see in terms of food-wise.
00:42:43
Speaker
We have food trucks um local and we also have some from out of state. So we've got guys like Smokey Suze coming from Sydney. They're bringing their van.
00:42:56
Speaker
That should be quite interesting. Nice. We also have yeah a lot of local treats like from Limoni. um We've got tasty Tibetan treats, which they pretty much do their hand-rolled dumplings. So there's yeah there's loads of food um that go along with that. And also not to also just to mention, we have a lot of distillers coming because it is a grain festival.
00:43:14
Speaker
Nice, yep. There's plenty of distillers coming, which they'll have tastings on the side as well. Yeah, wonderful. And in terms of entertainment, what have we got lined up? Yeah, so to cover the entertainment, we've got a good lineup of local bands.
00:43:28
Speaker
um Yeah, doing everything from 60s, 70s rock style bands. So there's a lineup of five or six bands coming. So yeah, starting off during the day, start kicks off at 11 o'clock, ends at seven. So yeah, through the day, it'll just have bands hitting the stage. so Yeah, nice. and And where are you actually holding it, Adam?
00:43:48
Speaker
Yeah, so it's at the it's an old historic winery site and it's it's close to the CBD in Griffith called Miranda's. um So yeah, it's walking distance from the CBD, beautiful grass grass area, um perfect for a venue like this.
00:44:03
Speaker
so yeah. So what what an opportunity for a weekend away for people. And, um mate, you're going to have all these brewers and distillers in town for the Grainstock Symposium. Are they going to be involved on the festival front at all?
00:44:16
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. So the idea with that is that, The brewers themselves will be coming and the distillers. They'll be serving. We've developed a container bar with one of our major sponsors, Lancer.
00:44:29
Speaker
So we've got a container bar, 20-foot refrigerator shipping container. So the brewers themselves will be pouring beers and talking about the beers that they've got. And what we plan to do is actually turn them over. There's plenty of taps, but basically at a certain time, we'll basically change the kegs over to a whole new set.
00:44:46
Speaker
of yeah, untapped, untapped beers. So yeah, it's perfect. Yeah. Wow. So there'll be something new for people to enjoy every hour of the day. ah hundred percent. Yeah. No, it should be a good event. Brilliant. Well, um I can't wait, mate. It sounds awesome. And if you're looking for a fantastic weekend away, um this is just such a magic part of the world. Make sure you grab your tickets to the Grainstock Festival.
00:45:08
Speaker
It's going to be an epic day. Food, drink, music and more on Saturday, the 11th of October. um Tickets are selling fast, I believe, Adam, at... um www.grainstock.com.au. Yeah, and and accommodation, is it hard to find or what's the story? It's getting harder to find now. there's There's quite a few things in town running at the same time, so so it's definitely worthwhile getting that accommodation fast.
00:45:36
Speaker
Don't hold your breath on this one, guys. Get onto it, grainstock.com.au. Adam, thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it, mate. Thanks, Greg. Appreciate it. Cheers. Cheers.
00:45:50
Speaker
Welcome back and Jocelyn, so from drinking a few, your sort of five or six craft beers that you could find around the place to launching ah Hop On Brewery Tours with Matt, do you want to, how did that come to be?
Inception of Hop On Brewery Tours
00:46:04
Speaker
ah So most people probably heard this story, but we both wanted to get out of the jobs that we were doing. And having gone to so many beer festivals, we saw that community in action.
00:46:15
Speaker
And it wasn't just the people serving the beer. It was the people buying the beer. So we've all seen the same people that show up at the Brews Vegas events, the Beer Insider, um when, I don't know, Saccharomyces or Brewski or ah The mill, when it was still in existence, you know they would have these great events and you'd always see the same kind of dozen people there.
00:46:36
Speaker
um And it just, it looked cool. Everybody knew each other's names. They all laughed. They all hung out. And we were on the outskirts of that and looking in and we're like, oh, it'd be be such a great community to be a part of.
00:46:48
Speaker
And that's what inspired us to do something in that space. Now, initially, we wanted to open a bottle shop. um We'd spent some time down in Launceston at St. John Craft, which is one of the best bottle shops in the country and liked the essentially the model that my beer dealer has now. So drinking on premise takeaway.
00:47:09
Speaker
i'm And that's when we discovered that in Queensland, you have to have a hotel license. Hotel licenses are very expensive. And we did talk to a few people about essentially kind of leasing one of their licenses.
00:47:23
Speaker
Um, but there were a lot of issues that could have come with that. If they got in trouble on premise, it would affect us. If we got on in trouble somehow, you know, serving minors, whatever it might be. Um, so that quickly fell to the wayside.
00:47:37
Speaker
um and being a bit lost, we went to a beer festival in Port Macquarie and Dave's brewery tours van was out front. So Dave's runs in Sydney. Well, and kind of all along that area now.
00:47:50
Speaker
And, um, We literally spent the entire drive back home going, huh, beer tours. I wonder if that exists. And we were Googling it and everything kept pointing us back to Dave's.
00:48:01
Speaker
And that's when we decided. So between the drive from Port Macquarie back to the Gold Coast, we had our name. I had sketched the logo. I had sent it to my dad, who was a graphic designer.
00:48:12
Speaker
And his response was, I thought you were doing a bottle shop. And we went, yeah, change of tack. Like, this is what we're doing now. We've decided. um And that would have been in September. And we registered it the next month.
00:48:23
Speaker
And that's kind of how it all started. And then it was just a matter of actually approaching the breweries to see if they wanted us to bring people in. had Had you done any work in in tourism or tour guiding before, Joss? Or was this sort of a ah new skill set, new experience that you you had to grow quickly?
00:48:42
Speaker
No, I've almost always worked in tourism or hospitality. i kind of realized looking back. um I was a tour leader um for two almost two years in Central America. um So I had groups of 18 people that I would basically take on a trip from Mexico to Panama.
00:49:01
Speaker
Wow. they're Anywhere between one and seven weeks. And I didn't lose anybody. So that's good. I only had a few broken bones. So, yeah, I had done that for almost two years. And then I was a travel agent before we started doing this. So, um yeah, tour tourism was easy. and Arranging itineraries was something that I had done because I was helping a business startup in Mexico.
00:49:24
Speaker
So I did a lot of research there and kind of, I don't know. I like talking to people. So approaching people and explaining what we wanted to do wasn't really a challenge.
00:49:36
Speaker
ah How many broken bones have you had on brewery tours? None yet. Knock on wood. And we did have somebody slip in and smack their head open, actually. They missed a step at the end of the day. And we thought about we we were making sure that we didn't have to take them to the hospital and all of their friends were like, yeah, he's fine.
00:49:55
Speaker
and there There were no lasting repercussions from that one. So, yeah. yeah yeah And what were the conversations like with those early, what? Yeah. Five breweries. Were they keen to work with you straight away or did they take some convincing?
00:50:13
Speaker
No convincing. um I think I was just talking to Matt about this, actually. I think there was a bit of skepticism initially. ah Somebody told us that prior to us, that there had been another company that attempted to do brewery tours, but there were only like four options.
00:50:28
Speaker
And so They couldn't offer um the the range of tours and also like the the timings of when they were open. I think it was more of like a side hustle. So we went in and I think there was a little bit of like, yeah, sure, we'll welcome you. But, you know, good luck actually making it work. um And there hasn't been like there haven't been any issues at all. Like people were really welcoming, really accommodating, making sure that our groups were always looked after.
00:50:58
Speaker
you know playing on price to make sure that it was working for everybody um and got a lot of that information of literally here are the notes about our beers our goal was always to showcase every beer at every brewery as if it were our own so trying not to play favorites trying i mean that's always hard we all have our favorites but having that um Going into each venue, and I use Newstead and Green Beacon a lot because they were pretty much our first two venues, um and going in and putting yourself in the position of somebody who owned it or who brewed the beer and sharing the stories behind the beers, sharing the the unique ah selling points of each of them, and then moving ourselves to Green Beacon and doing that again without slagging off other beers or anything like that, but really giving every
00:51:51
Speaker
brewery it's it's the honor of that that it deserved um and i think we did that really well and i think that we um we we stayed true to that commitment and and and gave that fairness to each of the breweries have you Have you found any changes just just over that that nine-year timeframe?
00:52:15
Speaker
Obviously, in that period, some of those breweries, Green Beacon, Bolta and so on, have been acquired by the the big guys. um I guess, was there any impact on on the relationship with the tours? did that Or was it just, no, we we deal with the team at the venue level and and that's it kind of thing?
00:52:33
Speaker
I'd say most of them, so so like stone and wood and green beacon, there's been very, very little change, um which has been really nice. A little bit initially from punters.
00:52:44
Speaker
I think there was a bit of a pushback. Anybody who was kind of in the know said, oh, you know, we'd really like to... stick to independent breweries when we go on tour and that was something that we actually did talk about and we kind of struggled with do we still go there our heart is with independence but when green beacon was the first brewery you know one of the first breweries to welcome us on board you feel like you can't really turn your back on that um balter was probably the biggest change a lot of that has to do more with scale than ownership um we kind of
00:53:18
Speaker
look back in fondness of the days when they first opened that we had a bit more freedom of like being able to walk behind the bar, take our guests on the brewery tour ourselves. Whereas now because it's huge and it's corporate, you have to sign the waiver, you have to wear high viz.
00:53:34
Speaker
That's not a dig on us. I, you know, that's just their own protocols that have been put into place. But um no, for the most part, the the biggest challenge we've come up with, interestingly enough,
00:53:46
Speaker
is people who may not be familiar with what we do. And if we approach them and they're kind of new to the industry, we have had the question a few times of, well, what's in it for us? And you go, oh, okay.
Impact of Brewery Tours
00:53:58
Speaker
um Well, we bring people to your venue that may not have heard about you, um encourage people to buy takeaways or merchandise or whatever.
00:54:07
Speaker
It's only happened once or twice, but I think that's always been a bit, oh, okay. I don't know. And then you do look at some places that, have had so much, ah what do I want to say, return value from our guests. We might showcase it to somebody.
00:54:24
Speaker
We got an email from somebody in Brisbane saying, hey, a couple that came on tour with you loved our venue so much, they're having their wedding reception here or their engagement party or something. And that was because we took them there. And you go, that's cool.
00:54:36
Speaker
And so when breweries can see the value that we bring in, that it's not just the $20 per head that we spend while we're there, but it is the recognition. It is people going, I had no idea this existed and now I'm here every week.
00:54:49
Speaker
That's that ongoing value. And so when people think of it as this one time, oh, you're going to take up space and you're not going to pay us very much. Why should we accommodate? But again, that's happened in nine years two or three times.
00:55:04
Speaker
So we're not worried about it. ah Yeah, that's such a powerful thing, isn't it? I mean, the fact that you're bringing people with you who are kind of potentially a bit interested in craft beer, but aren't in love with it, you give them that, if they find that one brewery on that tour that they love, that's probably it.
00:55:22
Speaker
Like people, like they're going to be so infatuated with that brewery for like such a long time. And it can be anything. It can be the one beer out of the four or the five, or it can be the one person behind the bar and People just run with it. And if they have that good experience, they really stick with it.
00:55:41
Speaker
Yeah. And we love that. We love walking into a venue and you see somebody there who comes up and goes, oh, I did a tour with you three years ago and love this beer. And every time they release it, we come in and get a carton.
00:55:53
Speaker
You go, that's awesome. Like that's such a good feeling to to be approached and people remember you and things like that. So yeah, that's that's always very cool. It's why breweries sponsor festivals or events or things like that. like You want to connect your brand or your product with someone in a moment that they're going to remember or that they're enjoying or so whatever that might be. And yeah, I think these tours are just such fabulous opportunities of people who are, they've decided and they've paid for the opportunity to spend a day exploring breweries and beer opportunities and trying new things. Why wouldn't you want them
00:56:30
Speaker
in your venue and doing your thing. Exactly. it's It's been good though. Like good feedback from everybody. So that makes us really happy. I reckon um tourism marketing is is a different thing to um marketing a hospitality venue and so on. And and obviously you've, you're promoting a tour business through destination marketing databases and probably going to, you know, expos and things like that.
00:56:55
Speaker
Um, Is there something in there that breweries can pick up on themselves? Like should breweries be marketing themselves as tourism attractions? yeah and Are there any that ah that are doing that well in your in your experience? Collins is probably the one that I think of and I think ah most people would. i mean, of course, their location is phenomenal.
00:57:16
Speaker
um And they they do great. And the Brisbane marketing team, love them. If you look at how often Howard Smith Wharves is featured, whether it's Felons as a venue or Mr. Percival's or anything that's there, absolutely, absolutely ah not enough of the venues are members of their local tourism board, which is frustrating because wineries are. Sierra Mae specifically i is is a member of, I believe in
00:57:48
Speaker
I can't remember if it's Gold Coast or Brisbane, one of them, because they sit kind of in between. and I think because of that, people recognize CRMA and they know the name and they know that they host events and they do things like that.
00:57:59
Speaker
I feel like, I mean, this is a little bit of a bugbear, so sorry. I feel like breweries are so insular and that they, again, forget that they need to work with the community and they need to work with the marketing boards.
00:58:14
Speaker
And there are bars that I see doing a really good job, whether or not it's through tourism, but in hosting events and things like that. Saccharomyces always do such great events. And you kind of look at some of the breweries and they're like, yeah, but we're brewing beer and we're packaging beer and we're doing this and we're doing that. But you go, yeah, but are you involving your community in that?
00:58:35
Speaker
Are they the ones who are going to continue telling your story? Or is it still just a snapshot instead of a movie? And I think that there needs to be more of a tourism focus.
00:58:46
Speaker
And I think that breweries need to see things more through a tourism lens. Why are we promoting Brisbane? How are we uniquely Brisbane or uniquely Gold Coast in the story that we're telling and what we're showcasing?
00:59:00
Speaker
And I think that there's a massive disconnect between that. yeah What about, um do you see like enough breweries, you know, working together in their, air like you we talked about the Sunshine Coast before, like, do you think, you know, why hasn't maybe Brisbane gone down that path or um as much if it hasn't, like, do you think there's, they're missing an opportunity there or there's easy solutions?
00:59:27
Speaker
Yeah, I do. Brisbane's promoting itself for the 2032 Olympics. That's kind of the whole buildup. Brisbane has award-winning breweries, like literally ABA award-winning, IBA award-winning, Queensland beer awards. Like there are breweries that have won multiple, multiple awards, whether for their beers or for the venue.
00:59:48
Speaker
um I don't understand why that's not showcased on a much bigger scale, especially when... And we do go to a lot of the Brisbane meetings and things that there is this, all we want to attract the world. We're really focusing on business from North America or massive beer drinkers and not showcasing a lot of a lot of how it all ties together. um There are not a lot of things to do in Brisbane ah when you really look at it from a tourism standpoint. We have a few big things. We've got Mount Kutha and Lone Pine and the Hinterland, which is kind of Gold Coast, kind of, you know, like there are a few things that they always use as their selling points and then going out to Stradbroke and things. But Brisbane City
01:00:34
Speaker
Nobody's like, woo, let's go vacation for a week in Brisbane City, right? There's not a huge amount to do. And the fact that there isn't more of a focus on tourism, whether it's walking tours, brewery tours, winery tours, and those different activities.
01:00:48
Speaker
And I think that the the breweries haven't really worked as a collective, again, because they're not necessarily part of the marketing team, like marketing members.
01:00:59
Speaker
that there's not this thing going, hey, we actually have world-class beer. There's always the focus on dining and on wine and people, again, it goes back to that homogeny of beer And it's something that has has I've been fighting for for years, really, is changing that perception, changing the the narrative, even from food and wine to food and drink.
01:01:24
Speaker
Or um I don't know, I just feel like it's such a missed opportunity. And I feel like if more breweries got on board. then that would help promote the tourism aspect, which is where we would kind of fill that, that gap and connect the two of them together.
01:01:39
Speaker
But yeah, lead up to 20, 20, uh, 2032 Olympics would be such a perfect opportunity. Yeah. Nice. Well, mate, you've um let's let's move on to some of your other roles in
Stewarding and Networking in Beer Community
01:01:50
Speaker
beer. I think we've covered tourism. You're the tour operator of ah Hop On, Hop On Brewery Tours, starting up in beer education on the Laudaton. Yeah. But a lot of Queensland beer folks will know you from your role as head steward for the Queensland Beer Awards and I think you've done some other work in that space. Tell tell me more about about that how did that. How did you get involved there?
01:02:16
Speaker
and I think that was just a matter of getting to know the industry. So back when it was the CBIA in 2016, maybe, we got involved with that.
01:02:30
Speaker
um Matt and I both stewarded and we did the Queensland Beer Awards back in, I think, 2015, 2016. So we kind of did a bit of both of that.
01:02:41
Speaker
It was so interesting. it was so hot oh my god I just remember it being so ridiculously hot um and we were in a different place at the RNA so we were like outside oh it was ridiculous um and I still remember the first year we stewarded there were a lot of people because it coincided kind of just with us starting up and so we didn't actually have that working relationship yet and so it was kind of like oh my god look that's that's Brennan Fielding and that's Scotty Hargrave. And oh my God, these are these big names of people who were judges at the time.
01:03:12
Speaker
And 12 months later, we did it again. And it was literally like, oh, hey, Brennan, hey, Scotty, hey, all of these people that we were kind of nervous around the year before. um I just, I love it. So we did that for a couple years stewarding and then the Queensland Beer Awards kind of stopped for a couple of years um and then restarted and I just got back into it. I just love,
01:03:36
Speaker
the networking side of things. and You walk your butt off. You know, you're looking at 16,000 steps kind of a day. um But I just really enjoyed it. I think more from a networking perspective.
01:03:50
Speaker
And then COVID happened. And then the Indies was held. So post lockdown, but some of the states were still in lockdown. And each state the first year of the Indies did their own kind of um judging and and tasting.
01:04:08
Speaker
And when a few of the borders were open again, it came to Queensland. And I kind of got my name put forward as somebody who knew a bit about stewarding and doing that. And that's how I got involved with helping for the Indies, um doing stewarding and basically volunteer management.
01:04:28
Speaker
Basically, I get to be bossy. So i I don't really struggle with that either. Can you give us a sense of what it's like sort of behind the scenes? I mean, there'll be a lot of listeners who haven't been to judging at all, but even those who have, probably well, obviously that they don't know what's going on behind the curtains because they're not allowed to know, but I've been behind some of them and it's ah it looks like pure chaos to me. I have no idea how anything happens, but then it's also running like such a well-oiled machine. And so mean you look at everyone who's working, it's like everyone knows their roles so well.
01:05:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's a bit like a duck on water. You know, if you try and and float and look really put together and then you go back behind the scenes and there's a lot of paddling and a lot of chaos.
01:05:15
Speaker
But having said that, um Royal Queensland in particular has evolved a lot over the years as a competition in terms of really putting forward new faces for judging, um rotating the panels, giving opportunity to people to to grow, to continue their beer judging pathway.
01:05:35
Speaker
And it's something that um on like, on the committee we've worked really hard for is, is creating that pathway to judging, um which does involve people being stewards. So they've, um they've done a really, and don't know, they put a lot of work behind it and made it really, really, really easy. So we've kind of had the same core volunteer team, which really helps everything as well, because people do kind of know their roles.
01:06:02
Speaker
um There are people that look after the kegs and the bars and, know, um i I do say that that comp could pretty much run without me at this stage because it has turned into a very well oiled machine.
01:06:14
Speaker
I'm just a bit of the go between, which I again, I love. I do a lot less stewarding these days and a lot more delegation. which i I mean is good and bad. um But what goes on behind the scenes, it's all a matter of um of attention to detail. You've got, you know, a thousand entries that are all numbered and they have to go to the correct panel in the correct order on the correct day at the correct table.
01:06:41
Speaker
um And all the judges have to have the right notes to know what they're drinking. i Not specifically, but, you know, style wise, and they've got their style guidelines and It's just a matter of making sure that everybody is um is following the same protocol in terms of, um and and not anonymity, that what am I trying to think of, but um just keeping everything consistent consistent and and secret and not divulging anything that they shouldn't.
01:07:15
Speaker
um yeah it goes really well now and it's a good team at the RNA as well that have taken a lot of load off from me um but I do miss the indies I miss the chaos chaos of the indies I was always really fun too uh trying to organize you have a week to organize all 2500 entries or whatever it was um in a cold room in the middle of wherever it was being held I i Yeah, that was a lot of brain Tetris.
01:07:44
Speaker
But I loved it because it's totally different to what I do on a day to day basis. Would you ever want to judge um beer or do do you think the fun is sort of what you're doing? you're You're where the action is and you've got the good part of it.
01:07:58
Speaker
I've got the best part of it. I did back back in 2020 or 2021, I did kind of have the opportunity. it was like, do you want to go down the judging path or do you want to keep stewarding?
01:08:10
Speaker
And I love the judges and I know that it is hard work. And Will, I think I've said this to you before, but we're not. curing all the world's ailments, right? Like it's still meant to be fun. So, and the judges, when they're judging, they just look so serious. And I'm like, you guys are just a bunch of larrikins who like experimenting with things. Like it's all just one big science project.
01:08:30
Speaker
And they're sitting there and their brows are furrowed and they're so concentrated. And I mean just thought, I don't want to do that. I want to be the one on my feet, laughing, getting to try all the beers in the background um and and being, I guess, the one that people can depend on.
01:08:45
Speaker
I think that's something that I hope people think of me as that. um I haven't scared too many volunteers off, so that's always a good thing. uh but I like being I I don't know I just I like having that responsibility and I like knowing that I can fix problems if they arise and yeah and I don't want to take the fun out of beer I don't I never wanted to go down the judging pathway to the point where I couldn't enjoy ah beer just for beer's sake that you're constantly picking it apart and looking for faults and
01:09:18
Speaker
yeah But I do still sit in on panels. Like I'll still usually do a panel or two just to kind of hear the feedback and and keep my skills, I guess, if I ever did want to do judging. i would I would say if if anyone is listening and is really interested in in how these awards work and thought and so on, like definitely ah recommend volunteering as a as a volunteer for these awards. I think, um i don't know if you remember, Joss, but I volunteered for the Queensland Beer Awards probably about four or five years ago. And I do remember you running around, bossing everyone around and doing a great great job of it
01:09:54
Speaker
ah But you made the experience super easy and super fun for everyone. and um But I would say it's ah it's a real insight into how these awards work and the level of work that goes into making sure that judges are tasting beers completely blind. They have no idea of the brewer or the the particular beer. All they're given is the style guidelines to go against and... um And I think as such, you know, those awards should be really regarded a lot more highly than things like, you know, the Gab's Hottest 100 or things like that because they are critically peer-reviewed results. Yeah. Yeah, definitely get on board. Check out any of the state-based awards and volunteer for the next one. It's so much fun.
01:10:40
Speaker
Yeah. It's much fun. Well, we best wrap up soon, but Joss, I was thinking about this this morning, you know, if you had one wish or sort of hope for where beer could go or what could happen to beer, what would it be i I've been thinking about this too since you said the question. i don't, I think, I think it would be great to get to the point where it is at the States where there's not this delineation between craft beer and regular beer, where you can have,
01:11:12
Speaker
you know, you can have Belgian beers or you can have a black IPA sitting on tap next to your Han Super Dry. So whether that's a governmental change, whether that's a brewery change, I don't know, but I would love to look at the future and you don't pick where you're going to go out to eat that night based their beer list. You actually go because it gives you the entire experience.
01:11:36
Speaker
um So yeah, I think just more, don't know, is this bad? More mainstreaming of of craft beer would, um i think I think that'd be really nice to see. Yeah, definitely.
01:11:47
Speaker
Yeah. I think, um yeah, we were were so close there like the pandemic and and that sort of thing. Like there there was a real, it finally felt like that buy local thing had had real teeth and i and people were really going out of their way to support the local business down the road, whether that's the the cafe or the brewery or the distillery or whatever. And I and i think some of that's held, but it's it's very quickly, you know, goes back to a,
01:12:15
Speaker
whatever's cheapest you know yeah and I think that that's something that breweries could do better as well I think is that highlighting the importance of independence and sharing their story and I think honesty is really important and transparency of saying not not the woe is me things are hard kind of story but just saying look this is what you're doing when you're supporting us you're your extra $50 spend allows us to buy the brand new variety of hops to be more experimental, or it allows us to hire a casual that allows us to take a family vacation or whatever it might be.
01:12:49
Speaker
Those stories are the stories of independent craft beer. And the more you share, the more people feel connected and they want to support you on that journey. And I think that, again, that's, there's a lack of that.
01:13:02
Speaker
And the breweries that can do that and can share their stories, they're the ones who do get the repeat customers and the people that are their active ambassadors. Definitely. Well, Joss, thank you so much for joining us. We best leave it there.
01:13:16
Speaker
Well, thank you guys so much. It does mean a lot that you ah reached out. So thank you. Thanks, Charles. Cheers. Welcome back anytime. Cheers. Thank you. See ya.
01:13:28
Speaker
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Speaker
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01:14:54
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up-to-date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:15:08
Speaker
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01:15:24
Speaker
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