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Grainstock 2025
210 Plays9 hours ago
"We're all massive grain users – bakers, brewers, distillers – so it's so good to get to connect with them."
Grainstock was a first-of-its-kind industry gathering and beer festival celebrating grain, agriculture, brewing, distilling and baking under the one banner.
Held at Voyager Craft Malt’s home at the Whitton Malt House over three days, it brought diverse yet linked industries together for farm tours, networking, and a symposium exploring the opportunities, challenges and future for farmers and businesses that rely on grain.
During the conference, Will and Craig sat down with three guests to chat about their respective backgrounds, what brought them to Whitton, and their experience at the conference.
First up, we have Caolan Vaughan, head brewer at Stone & Wood, who has been overseeing the introduction of regen and organic ingredients at the brewery. He’s followed by Phil Stevens, who used to lead brewing at The Welder's Dog and is now focused on native grains, before we’re joined by distiller and CIBD board member Lisa Macrae.
Ahead of those interviews, James and Will discuss Lachy Crothers’ new fresh AF beer project, the return of Ballarat Bitter to its founding family's hands, and Rehn Bier’s move into the Old Mill Brewery with some Barossa mates. We also unveil the latest Have You Done A Rallings? winner.
Start of segments:
- 17:42 – Caolan Vaughan
- 27:59 – Phil Stevens
- 39:19 – Have You Done A Rallings?
- 43:07 – Lisa Macrae
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
GrainStock Event Highlights
00:00:05
Speaker
I'm Will. I'm James. And here we are once again reunited, Will. How's it feel? Great, great. After spending much last week together at GrainStock. Yes. And I've been sort of thinking we probably don't need to hype up GrainStock too much in the intro because the three interviews we have today were all recorded at GrainStock.
00:00:23
Speaker
And it comes ah across very clearly from all three so you know interviewees. um how much they enjoyed it. But yeah, it was a fantastic event. I think everyone's sort of excited about it anyway. And Matt Kierkegaard, who sort of stepped away from the beer industry a year and a half ago, I was doing a Q&A with him as one of the panels.
00:00:41
Speaker
um I think he was a bit like, why am I coming back to do this? and And as part of the thing, he goes, this feels like like an early good beer week or something. You know, just the the vibe there was people were excited and it's hard to sort of put your finger exactly what it was. It was probably a whole bunch of things. I don't know how you felt about it.
00:00:57
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the weather was perfect, that that helps. But having a lot of people from different industries together, from distilling, bakers and brewers, I think really helped people meet a lot of new people and make these connections that they don't normally
Event Logistics and Industry Unity
00:01:09
Speaker
get to make. So I think that was a big part of it, similar to early good beer weeks, where it was like a lot of the cities were maybe a bit more segmented, and then all of a sudden you have people coming into Melbourne and really getting to know each other. It it did have that sense about it, I think. Yeah, yeah.
00:01:21
Speaker
I think Stu and Brad have quite rightly engendered lot of goodwill towards Voyager over the years. And I think ah attendees who hadn't been there or hadn't even been to like Chris's farm or a barley farm to have that as part of the experience. like For people who weren't there, the you know the welcome, one of the first stops was standing in a barley paddock having beer and a barbecue and being welcomed in you know it was just you know quite fantastic um but I guess you know the the bread was the bread was amazing the beers were amazing the whiskies were amazing um but yeah it was it was just a really really good vibe um so yeah congratulations to Stu and Brad and everyone else that helped them pull it off um I'd imagine they'll be taking well knowing that they're If they are taking a well-deserved breather, get on them. And I'm sure the event will be back maybe not next year, maybe two years.
00:02:07
Speaker
You know, they're to see how they do it. But um and I think, you know, there's about 250 people travelled to Whitton and Griffith, which, you know, they're not near anything. No, it's it's hard from all the capital cities. So the fact that they could get people to come ah come to their space was was really important as well.
00:02:22
Speaker
And I think you know what was interesting as well, even though it was sort of you know Voyager putting it on, they had a lot of ah other, you could say, competitors out there in the beer industry, came on board, sponsored the event sponsored buses to get people there from Canberra, from Sydney, from from Adelaide, from Melbourne. um So yeah, um if you didn't go this time, whenever the next one is on, we highly recommend attending the next Grain Stock because it was a great
Lockie Crothers' Fresh Beer Project
00:02:43
Speaker
thing. And all three of the chats that we have as part of this week's show, um I think that enthusiasm really comes through as well.
00:02:50
Speaker
um But I guess we'll get to that. But before that, Will, you've come straight back into it, despite you a few big days in row, straight back in with a couple of articles for us. First one, you chatted to Lockie Crothers, who's, I guess, well-known a lot of people in the beer industry.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yeah, Lockie, a lot of people would know from his time at Ballistic. He also brewed overseas in the UK, and he's from WA originally. And he's launched a sort of project called FAF, which is about fresh beer. I think we've got language barriers on this, so it's...
00:03:18
Speaker
So it won't do the language warning. It's in the article though. But yeah, I mean, Lockie, while he was at Ballistic, he was pivotal in the Sleep When You're Dead series, which was definitely very innovative at the time. They'll release a beer within two months.
00:03:30
Speaker
If it was still on bottle shop shelves, they'll credit it so that they'll bring the beer off sale because he was just so passionate about fresh beer. And now this is sort of taking it to a next level. You know, long story short, hit it will he'll pre-sale the beer.
00:03:43
Speaker
Once it's packaged, he'll pack it on the Monday, send it off. He's, you know, confident he'll be able to get it to just about everyone in Australia who wants to drink it by the Friday and everyone's sort of drinking it together within a week of it being packaged.
00:03:55
Speaker
And I'm thinking every beer will be some variation on IPA, so can really push the freshness, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and different kind of IPA or different recipe each time. lot of the details of the recipe included on the can so people can really understand it. And, yeah, you know, he also said that it's his chance to really experiment as well with different brewing techniques and that kind of thing, whatever he's hearing or whatever he's reading about overseas or other Australian breweries. It means he can just do it and really throw them at the at the beer and and learn that way as well.
00:04:25
Speaker
yeah was interesting. When I was reading your article, a lot common ground, it seems, with what Rhys Lopez is doing at Evil Megacool, who obviously had on the show a few weeks ago. um and you know, one of Rhys' hopes was that more people would do that sort of model, small batch production.
00:04:40
Speaker
never doing the same thing, direct to customer sales. So it's kind of interesting that so soon, i mean, obviously this project has been in the works for a while, but you know, that someone else is already following that that same sort of model.
00:04:51
Speaker
Yeah. Well, they did have conversations about each other, both from WA. So, like you said, he got a lot of help from Rhys about ah Working with Australia Post and that kind of thing. But, i you know, i look, these are small mile numbers, but I do wonder if we might see a micro trend in this area. Like a lot of the conversations around craft beer have been about brew pubs, really. It's like this is the way to success. This is how you can run viable business. I think a few people are looking at this really direct consumer model,
00:05:19
Speaker
Again, small, but I had two separate conversations last week at Grainstock about people were like, I love the Eva Melgocorp chat just because of that element of the model of doing some kind of subscription or some kind of really small project, sort of a bit for the brewer as well, when when you can just brew beers you're passionate about.
Industry Reacquisitions and Collaborations
00:05:37
Speaker
So yeah, I think it'll be really interesting to see if if other people do go down that path when you can, if you've already got the audience as well, that really helps. And I think someone like Lockie is pretty well known in the industry and he doesn't need to appeal to that many people but uh yeah if he captures them and and he's always releasing beers to them then it works out for him i have to say shn of his massive beard he could have walked past me 20 times in the street smiling and waving at me and i wouldn't have had a clue yeah that giant beard was so synonymous with him back in the day but um yeah no um yeah good stuff and best of luck to lockheed first beer only went on sale this week um i guess a very different part of the beer world this more ownership sort of related story that he picked up on earlier this week as well
00:06:18
Speaker
Yeah, so Bellarat Bitter, which is a very famous beer in that regional city. it's It's been bought by one of the descendants of the founder. So Stephen Coughlin has um bought it back off Asahi, which doesn't happen very often um or slash ever. ah he He's been sort of in conversation with him a long time. He grew up, you know, with these posters in the house.
00:06:40
Speaker
Have a look at the story because it's hard to explain, but this, you know, Bellarat birdie does have a sort of, it's not the same, but not two miles away from those early Guinness ads that people really love. Like there is quite a nostalgia play around it. And um ah as soon as I saw that branding, was like, why do i recognize this guy so much? and it's because there are still signs and things like that up in Bellarat. So people would definitely wear it. If you you look at the Bellarat career,
00:07:04
Speaker
You know story about him. There's a lot of people really excited about the prospect of this It's it's you know, it is a mainstream beer more or less I mean this would have been a beer equivalent to Melbourne or Carlton or something which probably why can't decide to get rid of it in the day because they could just replace it with basically the same beer So yeah, I mean good luck to him mean it's It's definitely not going in the craft space and he wants to focus on pubs in Bellarat and that kind of thing so that's a pretty tough market but uh Yeah, he's fortunate to have been able to get it back really um and not have to yeah go go into too long a battle to get it.
00:07:40
Speaker
Yeah, no good stuff. um And jumping over the border to South Australia, another article from Bryony from Flavor Logic that's got up on the site this week. um Many people, especially in South Australia, will know Rain Beer. and small Small brewing operation based in Barossa. Been going about 13 years now.
00:08:00
Speaker
New owners took over a couple of years ago. And they've just got into a joint venture with some other and producers. Sally Can Wait in the Kitchen. Some other booze producers as well. Taken over um an iconic and old venue in the main street of Tanunda. And reopened it as the Old Mill Brewery. um Just, I guess it's another example of people in the beer industry or the booze and hospital industries consolidating or collaborating and going, okay, together we're stronger. Yeah. And, and finding, you know, different hospitality approaches and being like, we can have our beer on, but we can also do ah interesting things around it rather than just being like, this is a brewery tap room. It it comes across a bit differently and potentially appeals to more people as well.
00:08:44
Speaker
And you know, and Rain are still going to brew at their other site, but this will be their cellar door now, but one they share with other people. So um yeah, best of luck to them because I know with Barossa Valley Brewing closing their tap room down in Tanunda, there's not been ah as big a sort of craft beer presence within the region for a while. So yeah, that's that's pretty exciting to see.
00:09:03
Speaker
um And then I guess stepping... But across another state board at WA, it's the the Vibe of It livestream takes place next week, which is the, I guess, collaboration again. Rocky Ridge and HPA have produced these beers to showcase some Aussie hops. and We'll be hosting a live stream from Humdinger Studios next Thursday. um You've had the beers arrive, Will. you've tucked into them yet. I think you're being very well behaved and waiting till nearer the show. Well, I'm not sure how many we need to drink on the stage or any, well, not on the stage, in the podcast studio rather.
00:09:34
Speaker
So I've sort of kept them safely in the fridge though. Cool. Lockie would be proud that I've protected them, although that they weren't brewed a week ago. But yeah, that will be taking place on October 23 from six o'clock. um The packs are all sold out. If you go to the tap, where you can still buy the beers individually i believe and um yeah so or if you just want to watch it and join us or if you missed the live stream we had a couple of emails about that it will of course be at youtube on youtube as well so you can watch it at a later date yeah that's so if you head to the crafty pint podcast uh podcast channel on youtube which is just youtube.com slash at the crafty pint podcast you'll find um the link there to if you want to save it or set a notification up to um
Sustainable Brewing and Regenerative Practices
00:10:14
Speaker
here when it goes live. So we'll see you from there next Thursday. um In the meantime, um before we get to the main chat, I guess we have another event to tell people about which which which will be launched probably by the time you watch or or view this or certainly it's going to hit the Crafty Pint socials and Molly Rose socials on on um this Thursday.
00:10:35
Speaker
um Crafty Cheer, so a festive feast um that we put together with the team at Molly Rose, I guess to you know kick off the the holiday season. um So if you care to join us, it'll be us with Molly Rose, a couple of other brewers and a distiller.
00:10:48
Speaker
um Just a long table feast with some delicious beer, delicious cocktail, delicious food. yeah Sorry. Yeah. So it's at Molly Rose and we'll be joined by some of our good mates in the ah beer and distilling game. And um it's it's taking place on December 4th. So yeah, nice and early for the Christmas season. But if you leave things later, you're sort of overwhelmed by Christmas stuff, aren't you? and Exactly. So you need to need to get in early. So come and join us. It'll be great fun.
00:11:14
Speaker
And if you're a member of our Crafty Cabal Beer Club, you can save $20 on tickets as well. So i have a look on the Crafty Cabal website for how to access that discount. um So this week's guest, Will, so you and Craig spoke to these three while I was, we sort of shared hosting duties all day. it was like passing the battle. like You've done your stint, Will. You go and do some podcasts. I'll take to the stage. So you and Craig had a chat to three people that I guess covered by much of the cross-section of the people who was there at Grainstock.
00:11:42
Speaker
Ideally, that's what we were hoping for and quite nicely. we We do kind of have brewing distilling and baking all covered in here I didn't think one of the chats would be quite as baking heavy But first up you're gonna hear from Killen Vaughan. He's a brewer at Stone and Wood. He's very passionate about region By virtue of them, you know stone and wood using regenerative malt it's quite a obviously significant amount of it potentially because ah that they make quite a bit of Pacific Ale. Well, that was it. I think Keelan was, you know, yeah he gave the last talk of the day as well in the main room and he was like, look, you know, we're using maybe two or 3% of this Regen malt in Pacific Ale, but we're making a lot of Pacific Ale.
00:12:20
Speaker
And they've obviously got the second beer, the and NRB Northern Rivers beer, which is around 75%, 80% using Regen grain as well as ah Ryefield's organic hops. um But yeah, he was we've I'm sure we've talked about this on the show before. like I think when Keelan...
00:12:33
Speaker
first sort of got into this and realized that the potential and know what what he could do in his role as head brewer at stone and wood you know within line within kieran to try and showcase what's happening in this field like he's he's he's totally bought into but bought into the the project so to speak Yeah, he's definitely passionate about it and his passion will come through and not too different. So Phil Stevens, he he was head brewer, ah founding head brewer at Welder's Dog ah in the New England region. He was there for a long time and since stepping away from there, he's also while brewing there though, he's he's long had a fascination with native grains and and since leaving there, he's been much more into it and he's really trying to both understand and promote um the growth of this industry.
00:13:18
Speaker
It's pretty tough for brewers. Brewers can use it, but a small amount, but he's particularly in terms of baking and distilling, he's is you know really excited about the idea of being able to make spirits where you showcase something that is truly sustainable. You're talking about things that grow in Australia that are endemic to Australia and don't grow anywhere else in the world and are also far better for the environment because they yeah they don't have to be harvested all the time. They're perennial grains often. So yeah, um he his passion really comes through. Yeah. And he's been working think with First Nations people as well and sort of having some eye-opening experiences on sort of both sides of that conversation.
00:13:54
Speaker
um But yeah, just this talk about creating genuinely, uniquely Australian flavours. And I have to say, you know, we always try and pull out some sort of snappy reels for lift to use on socials for each week's show. And i was like...
00:14:06
Speaker
You can pretty much take almost every sentence that Phil says. Like, he his he's he's so good. um I think, you we'll to do a follow-up story. i I think even though beer is only sort of a smaller part of what he's doing, i think, you know, where he's come from and what he's doing is so fascinating. it's We'll probably follow up with a story with Phil as well because, yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed listening that chat.
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah, and even though, you know, they might not make up a large percentage of a grist or something like that, they can add flavours that are very unique to beer as well. So it'll be interesting to see who goes down that path. one of my allar I said this when introduced Phil at Grainstock, but one of my favourite beers was he did a ah ah native orange sour, which this native orange he used, it's it's a...
00:14:44
Speaker
member of the caper family it looks nothing like an orange but the the kind of citrus flavor it added was just mind-blowing I drank it during uh COVID probably the first year of lockdown so I don't know it all blows into one 2020 I think and it still like stands out to me and that was uh what five years ago yeah And um from Phil, we then chat to Lisa McRae, who's a distiller. She's worked in distilling in Scotland, WA, Tassie, New South Wales.
00:15:08
Speaker
She's now on the board of the CIBD. d She's also um you know involved with Pink Boots Society. She's just ah she's a very lovely person, very... very serious about education and promoting education and distilling space and also just growing the distilling, the craft independent distilling um industry. um I met her at the CIB conference early in the year. And when we were talking about who to have on, I was sort of like, yeah, we got to get Lisa on because she's so across the industry um and knew she'd be a really good guest.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, they're all great. And i guess next week we'll also have ah another chat from Grainstock with Topher Bain from Wildflower and Chris Greenwood, who I i guess has been... key to the whole Voyager project. you know That's where but we met everyone else on it on his farm.
00:15:54
Speaker
um And we've got another interview we recorded there that will run a bit further down the line as well. ah But i this week's show, i it was when I'm having a listen in to check. Well, it seems to the show before it goes out there and you know but beside what rules we're getting out, i'm like, this is just this is just a a good, good show. so Maybe we should just do 15-minute interviews from now on. People out there nodding, I reckon. um So, yeah, that comes up after the break. and Before then, Will?
00:16:21
Speaker
Well, I mean, if you want to shout out a brewery you love, maybe someone you use beers you drank at Grainstock, if you were there, or maybe you saw their beer pouring at Grainstock, you could nominate them for our Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month. um And as for our Good Beer Citizen campaign, Have You Done a Rallings? We'll have the next winner of that coming up in one of the breaks in the show. So without further ado.
00:16:42
Speaker
ah Enjoy the show. And if you do, make sure you like, subscribe, or leave a comment on how um whichever platform you listen to us on, because it helps people discover the show. Cheers. Cheers.
00:16:54
Speaker
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00:17:09
Speaker
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00:17:31
Speaker
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00:17:43
Speaker
Killen, thank you so much for joining us at Crainstock. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Now, do you want to tell us a little bit about why you wanted to come here? Yeah. Oh, well, firstly, yeah, Stu and the team here at Voyager have just put on an absolutely amazing show like this.
00:17:57
Speaker
this conference has been pulled together and, and it's brought all the best of the industry that we love together. And, you know, it's been a pretty tough few years. So it's so nice to get together and connect. So, but I'm here primarily obviously to connect with everyone and and learn a few more things, but we're here to talk about, yeah, Regen, Regen Garan.
00:18:15
Speaker
mean, I'd love to, um you know, we're going to be putting this podcast together with a few other ah guests here as well getting their take on grain stock, but give us the the kind of cliff notes version of region what you're talking about later today. Yep.
00:18:27
Speaker
So um when we say region, we use and it basically, it's low carb, low import malt that we've been using. We've been using it since about 2022. And we are trying to use our beer essentially as a catalyst for change to help bring people along on the journey to to move towards more regenerative styles of agriculture and be it's a pretty sexy ingredient ah product and to uh to help can i can i pause you for one second and just i guess for ah listeners who maybe aren't as familiar with the idea of regenerative yeahp regenerative farming what like what does that mean in a nutshell yep yep absolutely so
00:19:05
Speaker
ah Basically, moving away from synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, things like that, no or low tillage. It's all about increasing or carbon catcher, so carbon sequestration, um increasing the microbiome of the soil, so increasing the carbon content, so it's heaps better for like water retention.
00:19:29
Speaker
It saves like water runoff and stops like pollution going down into waterways. like There are so many positive things that that comes out of just by doing actually a much more traditional way of farming.
00:19:42
Speaker
um Also integrating livestock to use as a fertilizer, rotation of crops, using things like cover crops or green manures to to make sure that you don't have pastures that just, you know, you've soil blowing away. So, yeah, it's a really holistic way of how to look after the soil, which in turn yields some pretty, pretty brilliant barley for malting and brewing.
00:20:07
Speaker
And obviously yeah sustainability and stone wood have gone together pretty closely for a long time. Like when it was sort of malt something you started looking at as as the head brewer leading that, or is it more recent or how do you sort of connect with it? little team We've been actually dabbling with it.
00:20:24
Speaker
for longer, we started using it like full time in Pacific Island in 2000, just a small percentage. ah But that is growing, we're we we're we're lucky to be a beer that's growing. We've also got a NRB, the Northern Rivers beer, which is ah the vast majority of that we're about 75% of the malt in that is comes from a region grown barley that stew molds for us here.
00:20:46
Speaker
That's um but we've been dabbling with it sort of like pre COVID. But it really sort of we but like, you know, they're taking the in the sand we we want to start using this um and you know we've got uh we're starting to see it slowly be used in some of the other sites um in line but stonewood is still leading the charge merwoolanbar brewery is still leading the charge with the uh the use of it and and yeah but it's starting to grow like there is there's been some amazing presentations on um very similar sort of philosophies well there's different grains but
00:21:22
Speaker
Same philosophy, all good outcomes. and Yeah, yeah we we're at Grainstock. It's ah you know a conference dedicated to and built around grain and whether that's brewers, distillers, bakers, yep or across the supply chain.
Grainstock Presentations and Sustainable Agriculture
00:21:37
Speaker
You're speaking a bit later on. Are there any other presentations that you've really that have stood out to you so far today?
00:21:43
Speaker
Oh, look, this I've been lucky enough to see a few of them. I haven't been, gis sick sometimes you get a bit of a trade off. You want to see them all, but it's not quite possible. Hopefully they're available to watch. I'm not sure.
00:21:54
Speaker
But um Matt Newell from Department of Planning and Infrastructure in New new South Wales, DPI, I think it is. um He did a presentation on Mount Wright just before.
00:22:05
Speaker
And that's a perennial grain and it's very similar sort of philosophy. It's not necessarily integrating regen sort of practices, but just it being a perennial, it grows, you know, for multiple years. You do not need to plant it every single year like you do with traditional grains like barley and wheat.
00:22:22
Speaker
So that that's fantastic. we've We've brewed with that in the past. There's a really great beer from Topher at Wildflower on at the bar at the moment. So I highly recommend you go on to try that. um There was a ah Derek from Bluestones did a really great presentation on it. Yeah, there's just there's my just getting industry people together and sharing, um you know, their passions and their their loves and what they're what they're doing. and You always learn something new. So, yeah, it's been a great... I look forward to next year already. Stu might need a bit of a break after. He's smiling still. He hasn't collapsed yet.
00:22:59
Speaker
ah In terms of, know, it's grain stock and and talking about the malt and the kind of the impact that can have on your um sustainability but method, you know, you do...
00:23:10
Speaker
malt, it's not always the most exciting part of beer. I think it yeah can almost be a harder story to sell. Do do you find that like, or do you think you need to push it? Obviously in craft beer, we're generally talking about hot hops. And you know what? It's so nice to not talk about hops for a little while. Like I love hops. And I brought them out um look we you can't make beer without hops like plain and simple so love it but in terms of impact like in terms of the sheer impact of changing or influencing agriculture to a more sustainable uh farming systems like better better systems better practices like that has real change like it can really help mitigate climate change and that
00:23:49
Speaker
At the end of the day, that is what we we do need to be focusing on. And and this is our way. I'm using you know my my vice of making beer as as the as the the you know the path for yeah influencing it. so you know And it's it's difficult. it's like we You can't just you know snap your fingers and everyone starts adopting it. It takes change and there's got to be education. You've got to have like policies that are promoting these sorts of practices. so
00:24:21
Speaker
you know We're just doing what we can. we can't, yeah. And um there's more people jumping on board as well. Well, that's it. you you guys have been such a ah pioneer in that operating more sustainably or as sustainably as you can for such a long time. And it is I definitely see that around the the event as well. A lot of people are are starting to take those, even just the the first steps on that journey themselves. Absolutely. Yeah. It's really exciting.
00:24:44
Speaker
Hearing some of the the the presentations today, just like, oh, there's much. I'm talking about that too. It's like, oh, yeah, you know, it's just, it's good. There's more people talking about it. and um And look, we all we all care about where our brain comes from and and the impact that it can potentially have, both for for the better.
00:25:04
Speaker
So, yeah, let's... And cool to hang out with a few bakers for once at a conference. I'll tell you what, the bread at the catering tables has been fantastic. I think it's the highlight. that's why i vote I haven't had any beers yet. I haven't tried any whiskeys yet either, but...
00:25:19
Speaker
Oh my God, I've eaten a lot of bread. they ah that's It's fantastic. So yeah, look, and we're all, we're sorry there's such synergies between, we're all we all you know massive grain users. So, you know, bakers, brewers, distillers.
00:25:33
Speaker
So it's so good to be able to connect with them. And then we've got, obviously, we've got some great farmers out there as well. so Yeah, it's been, wow, what a day, basically. Yeah, great. Well, before we wrap up, you know, what about going to the farms and things like that? Is that something you try and do? and Yeah. like And what's that like as a brewer?
00:25:50
Speaker
Look, to be honest, we eat most brewers, they don't get out of their brewery very often. and that's Mostly emails. Yeah, yeah, exactly. um It is special to be able to see where where the grain comes from, and particularly when you've seen fields that have been grown, you know, using regen practices, like and how healthy you look into the soil, you actually see like, they're living, it's living it, there's so many microbes growing in them.
00:26:15
Speaker
um The water retention, like, it's so nice to see that. And, um you know, even just walking around the fields of some of the stuff that this team at Voyager are growing around here, it's it's it's special. But knowing where your grain comes from, knowing the farmer, um being able to work through problems together is is is the best way. Like, you know, we're moving relationships. That's something we've always wanted. and and yeah, it's special to be able to share it with everyone.
00:26:41
Speaker
Great. Well, Killen, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you. Cheers, mate. Cheers, mate. Yeah, look forward to the next beer.
00:26:50
Speaker
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00:28:04
Speaker
So, do you want to tell us a little bit about your relationship with native grains, maybe going back to the welder's dog days? Yeah, sure. Well, I actually got into them just before that um out of interest, but...
00:28:15
Speaker
um starting the brewery and getting in contact with stew and and using conventional grains um really sort of brought on that sort of knowledge and interest in grains in and of themselves um and a little bit of stuff about sustainability and um sort of added to the whole picture and that's when sort of my interest in native grains really took off um and i started exploring them in more detail and and trying to hunt more down and and learn more about them.
00:28:44
Speaker
What was that journey like? You just on Google or? i Started definitely started on Google and ate up everything there. But you can go on Google, there's not a hell of a lot out there. Well, there's a bit more now, but there wasn't much out there at the start. But um One of the one of the sort of key researchers in the space was at UNE, which is in Armidale where I'm from.
00:29:04
Speaker
um So I went and visited him and um he was nice enough to throw me a few old sample bags that he'd had ah that he'd collected 20 odd years ago. and I took them home and I cleaned them up. And um that was my first kind of experience of holding them in my hands, um which is quite
Exploring Native Grains in Brewing
00:29:20
Speaker
profound. and thinking there's something here you know like we need to look more into this because there's something special about um these wild totally undomesticated grains that offer something that our current grains don't have And were there any need names in particular of like, like what, what are he sort of talking about? Yeah, well, that one in particular was weeping grass, which has been one that's played a central role over the, over the, you know, ensuing decade of exploring them.
00:29:45
Speaker
Um, it's, uh, Latin names, Michaelinus depoides. It's, um, found over a really wide region of New South Wales and Victoria. Um, and it's got just a super fragrance.
00:29:58
Speaker
It's got. as far as native grains go, are relatively large actual seed size. um And that's the one that we've probably done the most work on. Yeah. And um yeah, in in brewing, but probably it has applications in baking, baking bread at home and all those kind of things. Yeah. brew Brewing beer is a little bit of a tough one just because of the way that the economics work with how much grain to how much beer and what beer is generally worth.
00:30:24
Speaker
Brewing is a little bit difficult. So I never actually really went down that path. um Just because the availability of the amounts that you get didn't really, you know, you'd have to throw everything you had into one brew and then you can't, you know, you can't tweak it or whatever.
00:30:39
Speaker
um But in terms of baking, that's a really exciting space for it. And so pursued sourdough fairly early on. And the results are just spectacular. The bread that came out is just on another level.
00:30:51
Speaker
So you've gone from just to get back to that sort of journey, but, you know, the welder's dog brewing, initial curiosity and sort of ancient grains, talking to the researcher and then sort of exploring down that path. Like what what were the next steps there and and where are you at now in terms of that journey?
00:31:09
Speaker
um I suppose it kind of related to I mean, the progression kind of related to my ability to acquire larger and larger quantities of the grain, which then allows you to do more with it.
00:31:21
Speaker
um So I, um at some point I was ringing around because there's a large market for mine regeneration. So at some point I was ringing around and I rang a guy, um Darren Vincent, down in Victoria.
00:31:33
Speaker
He supplies grain to snowy hydro regen and mine regens, but they have to have a very high germination rate for the mines to take that. has to be in the ninety s So he had a couple of hundred kilos of microlena, the grain I was speaking about earlier, um that didn't hit that benchmark and he just had it sitting in his shed. There was nothing he could do with it.
00:31:54
Speaker
um And he said, oh, would you like me to send you that couple of hundred kilos? And I was like, that's a massive jackpot. so he just sent it to me you know i so that was when I got a good batch worth and then started really trying to work out how to take it from what looks like grass clippings and turn it into something that looks like a grain you might buy in a shop you can make with and that was a big turning point so I I cleaned up all of that and then I had a good amount um and then once I had that I could really start linking up with the crew of the plant breeding Institute in Narrabri
00:32:26
Speaker
that we're doing some work on this stuff. I could send it out to a few bakeries, get some feedback and start actually exploring what it might look like if we had supply of this grain into the into the commercial realm.
00:32:38
Speaker
Yeah. And what about um I mean, um ah First Nations people involved in this at all? or how addy do you need to work with communities there? how does that sort of? Yeah, so the project at um Sydney Uni in Narrabri is majorly focused on that.
00:32:53
Speaker
And that's where I've done, yeah, a lot of work there sitting down with um a diverse array of stakeholders, many of them Indigenous, and had many conversations about what they want the industry to look like and what we can do to ensure that we acknowledge Indigenous heritage and ownership of these grains.
00:33:16
Speaker
They've been using these grains for thousands of years um and they really feel that um and they really want to be able to use them again. um So in terms of ah bringing anything to actual market or anything like that then the first stop is having to make sure that the ducks are in a row with indigenous culture um and that they've been um properly you know thought about in that and so there's lots of different ways that we might be able to do that um you can't just say indigenous people think x or y there is a diverse a group of people as anyone else and with a diverse ah array of opinions
00:33:57
Speaker
um but certainly there's key sticking points that they want to see um and so we've got to be really sensitive to that and um and make sure we go forward in a really sensitive manner Yeah, okay. and And in terms of people, you know, using them, do you think like, it um say, Weeping Glass has has the most um use in bakeries or or bread or or do you see it has a future in brewing or it gets pretty tricky or what about distilling? like ah Yeah, I think... Where can it go? Yeah, I think, I mean, I think baking's good. Like, if you just back of the envelope maths, um being able to add a couple of dollars onto a loaf of bread...
00:34:34
Speaker
um probably isn't too bad. It's kind of a sourdough kind of a premium product with a decent margin. And so and, and, and given you could tell the story, people are likely to pay another two or $3 for the for a really novel experience to have something that stands out as really different beer, I think is a little bit more tricky, I don't think it's going to have as pronounced difference on the end product. And therefore, you might struggle to to charge what you need to charge given the high prices of it at the moment.
00:35:04
Speaker
but distilling i think probably sits in the middle somewhere like when you concentrate that grain um influence in distilling i think you can probably bring out native grain aspects a little bit more and also we know that some whiskeys sell for thousands thousands thousands of dollars so they've got a you know they've got a premium market whereas no beers sell for even hundreds of dollars, you know, short of maybe canteen or something like that.
00:35:29
Speaker
So I think beer is going to struggle for a little bit until they're more widely available, but distilling and baking probably have a chance. Yeah. And in terms of, you know, do you think it's because of the flavor that excites you in particular or how it's grown? Like, like what sort of draws you to it? Native grains and that sense? I just, i love it that it's so on the margin of what we know.
00:35:48
Speaker
um And I also love that it's um not on the margin of what Indigenous people know. So you've got this like kind of simultaneous discovery on our front and rediscovery for them.
00:36:00
Speaker
um And it's really nice to be able to take some the native grain bread to one of these um listening circles and share it around and see... this look of, you know, wonder on Indigenous people's faces when they taste something that, you know, has been in their culture for thousands of years. And then you also get to see the look of wonder on, you know, other white Australians faces when they're tasting it for the first time.
00:36:24
Speaker
Um, so yeah, that there's, and and then the, the, in terms of them domesticating it and growing it, the fact it's perennial it's, I mean, it's more than sustainable. I've been saying today sustainability 2.0 it's what was already there. There's nothing more sustainable than putting back what already grew in a place, um, before white settlement, you know, so there's all those things draw you to it. And there's thousands of grass species. It's like prospecting. You never know what you're going to find when you get a new species. i was going to say, as this kind of opened up a Pandora's box of there's all these other native grains out there, what' what's sort of if you can get this weeping grass so that that commercialization that you're looking for, what's the next one on the that you're curious about?
00:37:07
Speaker
um well there's one called Mitchell grass which has has been farmed fairly successfully but um one of the main proponents of that um passed his farm on and and the the person who inherited decided not to continue it um but um but yeah exactly we're just getting somewhere yeah anyway um but yeah there's both of course macro which is called red grass that's one that's got um phenols and terpenoids and really aromatic compounds in the bract in the in the sheath of the seed um and it's got this amazing strawberry lolly kind of fragrance that is is not anywhere near any other grain ever seen
00:37:47
Speaker
We've got native lemongrasses that have real lemon scents. um And we haven't even scratched the surface of the thousand thousand odd grass seeds endemic to Australia. So if you could take that red grass and and capture that, which you can, put that into, say, a whiskey,
00:38:03
Speaker
then that's kind of starting to be able to um bring about um almost what we you can see the market wants and the people want, which is an Australian whiskey. And we we look for that all the time by, you know, um using Australian ingredients, but often they're just Australian grown the warning versions Even Australian grown wheat or Australian and that's not Australian.
00:38:27
Speaker
That's Australian grown wheat. This is the opportunity. We live in a we live on an island nation, a continent that's been separate from the rest of the world for millions of years. We've got stuff here that tastes of Australia, not of Australia influence on an imported species, you know, so.
00:38:43
Speaker
um yeah my my sort of thinking is that we've got the ability to perhaps bring out a true australian cuisine which is the true taste of australia phil that's a wonderful place to finish on i think thank you you've got me sold i'm uh i'm in let's do it thank you for joining us no worries thanks for having me cheers thanks phil It's time for Have You Done A Rowlings? Proudly presented by the legends at Rowlings labels. For the very best digitally printed cans and cartons with no MOQ, visit rowlingsprint.com.au and chat to Brad and Paul today.
00:39:20
Speaker
G'day listeners, James and Will here to talk about our Have You Done
Community Engagement in Beer and Spirits
00:39:24
Speaker
a Rowlings campaign. This is where we celebrate good beer citizens within the beer world. And our latest winner has come courtesy of Liz at Molly Rose Brewing. he does She could be a winner because she does so much with communities and ah social groups and all these things around Molly Rose.
00:39:40
Speaker
Well, and and interestingly, and I know Liz has recently completed her first Melbourne Marathon, which is kind of appropriate time for her nomination. um As it's Mel Vanderwater, who's a key figure in the Australian Beer Milers Club.
00:39:52
Speaker
um We've written a couple of articles about these guys. um They, well, as the as the name suggests, there's beer and there's running a mile. We'll include a link to one of the articles there, but essentially,
00:40:04
Speaker
It's this sort of global club slash phenomenon. um The idea is that you chug a beer, you run a lap of the track, you chug another beer, basically you do it four times until you've run a mile.
00:40:15
Speaker
um The world record is something phenomenal, like far quicker than I could run without drinking, like probably quicker than i could drink four beers, to be honest. um and yeah Mel's based in Melbourne. I guess Rhea Offsider um has even jumped on TV to help us promote Pint of Origin. They're just a really good bunch of people and there's a lot of familiar faces from, you see some around craft beer events that take part in this. There's regular runs all at sort breweries and and pubs and venues around Melbourne and the rest of Australia, they they tend to hold their biggest national events here in and Melbourne as well.
00:40:47
Speaker
But but yeah there's just so much tie in with the the beer industry and they're just very, very enthusiastic, passionate people who whenever if they get any TV coverage, they look to sort of get behind that the you know the local beer scene as well.
00:41:01
Speaker
Yeah, and they do them in funny costumes and they're really serious about promoting those breweries as well. You know, that they really make sure people know about them and they're always changing where they run from and that kind of thing. Well, there's a there's an Esky Sprint as well as the Aussie Beer Mile. like there's there's yeah you know There's a lot of fun stuff goes on.
00:41:17
Speaker
But i'm what did Liz have to say about Mel? So Liz says that Mel is an absolute legend behind the Aussie Beer Mile. What started as her love of running and craft beer has turned into a community that gets together every week and month, all while supporting beer venues along the way.
00:41:31
Speaker
She pours so much of her time and energy, pretty much all of us her spare time, actually, which, yeah, definitely... into organizing runs rallying people and making sure breweries and bars get the love they deserve it's not just about running it's about creating a space where people connect discover new venues and celebrate good beer mel's dedication passion and general all-round awesomeness has made the aussie beer miles something really special she never stops and she never asks for anything back and she somehow makes it all look fun and effortless that's a ringing endorsement yeah i do think something about the aussie beer miles they really it's such a community like you can you can turn up and not be a very good runner and i think after a couple of years you might be like they do really welcome anyone to be a part of it even i've thought about trying to run again and then quickly disabuse myself with that notion i'm like a sack of bricks sort of hammering down on leads without any protection but um no they're awesome and think it's
00:42:23
Speaker
I think often breweries and and pubs sort of say, hey, we're supporting community sports. We're supporting community um activities. And this is almost like the flip side of that where there's a community group out there that's working support and in partnership with with you know businesses on the other side. So congratulations to Mel and to Ree and all the Aussie beer milers. No doubt we'll see you down at the the Oval in Clifton Hill sometime soon for another run.
00:42:47
Speaker
We're always keen on more nominations, so just head to craftypint.com slash railings. Now enjoy the rest of the show. Cheers. Cheers. Need something printed but it's only a short run?
00:42:57
Speaker
Talk to Rallings. Whether it's cans, cartons or coasters, Rallings has a solution for you. Visit rallingsprint.com.au today.
00:43:09
Speaker
Lisa McRae, welcome to the Crafty Point podcast and live here from Grainstock.
Lisa McRae's Distilling Journey
00:43:13
Speaker
Thanks for joining us. Thank you It's my absolute pleasure to be here. Now, Lisa, we only met earlier today when we were trying to figure out a PowerPoint problem together. And I think our minds together, we managed to solve it. It's a great result.
00:43:26
Speaker
But I'd like to take this opportunity to get to know you better. i Give me the backstory. What brought you to here today representing the CIBD? Where did you come from? Where have you been? What's the go?
00:43:39
Speaker
It's very kind. I think ah you saved the PowerPoint. I was just the one that as technology walks past and it breaks. So that's why I chose an industry that was 2000 years old. I'm like, it should be worked out the kinks by now.
00:43:49
Speaker
Excellent. It's fantastic. um But yes, I'm a bit more on the distilling scene. I've been distilling since 2014. I started in Perth with Whipstaffer Distillery with corn, um more of a corn-based mash using local WA ingredients, which is fantastic.
00:44:06
Speaker
My entry into the distilling world was a bit of a classic story of you finish school, you go to university, you have no idea what you want to do. So you take everything. I took sculpting, I took accounting, I took Chinese. I was like, surely I'll find something and it's going to be exciting. It'll stick.
00:44:20
Speaker
And nothing really did. So on the side, I was working hospitality, fell in love with whiskey. And the more that i learned about it, the more that I loved it, the more I sort of really realized that this is something that I wanted to pursue.
00:44:31
Speaker
and I'm the type of person, when I find something interesting, I want to go all in. So learn about it, best way to learn about is to make it. And then that's why i was looking for distilleries in my area.
00:44:42
Speaker
Thankfully Whippersnapper was opening up and knocked on the door, handed my resume and there we go. So it's been an incredible journey so far. It's about 10, 10, 11 years now. After working with Whippersnapper, I again wanted to go deeper. So I moved to Scotland and I wanted to to learn as much about distilling. So after a little while, I ended up in a gin distillery in Edinburgh.
00:45:04
Speaker
I thought I was going to be moving to rural Scotland. So I was so excited to be in a city. The Isle of Skye or the far north or something like Yeah, could be in town with me, two others and four sheep. And, ah actually had an incredible experience. Could not speak more highly of Summerhall distillery, making Pickering's Gin in Edinburgh.
00:45:22
Speaker
They taught me so much about engineering about quality, about craft and really about experience that you get from from drinking and from the consumer. um After a bit of time in Scotland, I decided to move back to be bit closer to home to family. So I moved to Tasmania, worked with Sullivan's Cove for a couple of months and during a different transition period for them. And then I moved to Old Kempton Distillery, which was Redlands to work with the wonderful Dean Jackson in the production space. So it's been ah wonderful journey from there. I continued on.
00:45:56
Speaker
It's a bit of a, a bit of a story. If you want 11 years condensed, not the person. That's a great way to get into it. And so, you know, you did really join the industry at a time where you could kind of knock on doors now you're, know,
00:46:09
Speaker
deeply involved in research and things like that. What brought you to that, just that desire to really throw yourself headfirst into it or did you sort of get there? I always just want to solve the problem and for for myself to really feel that I've found a solution is to to know everything about it, you know, to to actually inherently deeply understand what that is. And so then you do sort of expand more and more.
00:46:34
Speaker
And the more that I do learn is the more that I know nothing and will continue to learn. And the day that I stop learning is the day that I'll leave the industry or die, either one, because it is such a journey to keep going.
00:46:47
Speaker
And as innovation and technology is moving so rapidly as well, it just feels like you're along, you're just riding that wave at a certain point. Yeah. And, um, what, what about, um, your involvement with CRBD because that's what, and partially what you're here to speak about as well at the conference.
00:47:02
Speaker
And so I've been with, so throughout my journey, yes, starting on more of a hands-on apprenticeship based learning, working really on the floor to supplement that understanding and that knowledge. I've transitioned through the the different levels of education with the CIBD. So starting with a general certificate.
00:47:20
Speaker
moving into the diploma, certificates in in packaging in all different areas. For me, it just really, again, highlighted that understanding of what I was doing on the day and answering the question of why. And so through that, I attended a couple of conferences, met more of the team, really understood that the value that it gives you for your day to day. And and again, potentially being in Australia, being really remote,
00:47:47
Speaker
It's a little bit isolating. You can't really call it your mate, Scott, and go, hey, I've got this problem. How do I solve it Which a lot of other communities might have. We don't really have that here because we are such a young industry and we are learning.
00:47:58
Speaker
So it's great to have that CIBD, to have that foundational knowledge that we can take, learn, and then apply it. to our sets of parameters, but then completely turn it on its head. Because we're not trying to put an Australian grain or whiskey into a certain box that fits a mold for a different country.
00:48:14
Speaker
So we can take that, but then continue on that education and learning. So with the CIBD, ah Last year there was a position on the board that was open, so i ah volunteered and accepted and I've now moved into really showcasing that distilling space with Dave Withers as well as more of the regional events and and building that community and building that vibrancy that we have.
00:48:38
Speaker
And so you've been through the, um are you a chartered distiller now? Have you been through those courses to get to that point or...? i've I've got a diploma of distilling, which is fantastic. We do have our masters to go so give me five years. And I think yeah it's one of the big key takeaways I have from the CIBD is really about applying that knowledge that's relevant to your level of experience. So, you know, we don't recommend the masters for everyone. We recommend it for people that have 10 plus years experience, that have um mentors and guidance and that have that more senior leadership.
00:49:13
Speaker
It's for me that, that information, i only want people to do it when they can apply it. There's no point memorizing and regurgitating and then forgetting. It's about really having that deep understanding. And my hope is that anyone that does move through the program then can give back and build a community, build an industry.
00:49:29
Speaker
So transfers that knowledge on. There you go. For all those people studying sculpture and accounting in university and and and the the school of bartending, you too, one day could be heading towards a distilling future. Fantastic.
00:49:44
Speaker
That's great. And why do you want to come to Grainstock? Who doesn't want to come to Grainstorm? It's a fantastic opportunity to network, to to learn.
00:49:55
Speaker
And also for me, Stu and Brad are just such key pillars of this industry that have given so much to us for for years. I'm so happy to give back to them. so You know, to be a part of this community, to be a part of something that's so special and for Voyager particular, I believe have such a unique and uniquely distinctively Australian footprint that really makes, sets us apart globally.
00:50:22
Speaker
Without them and other craft malters, we won't have that ability to make these completely world-renowned products. So any way that we can support them through their years of support from us, it's a no-brainer in my opinion.
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah, nice. And this is a very broad question, but, um, you know, as someone who's worked in Scotland and Australia, like, do you think like, where are we at with telling the Australian spirit story? Like, like do you think we're getting across what we're doing well enough or more to happen? i heard some stats today about, you you know, the amount of spirits drunk in Australia that are Australian owned or Australian producers.
00:50:57
Speaker
It's stunningly small, even when you have like Archie Rose is quite a significant distillery. Um, so where do you sort of see that? Are we telling the story well enough? We have a long way to go and that's not for a lack of trying. It's just we are a small community. So we are everyday learning, everyday encouraging. We do, you know, love i love the and um methodology of think global, drink global, those sort of things where...
00:51:22
Speaker
you go overseas and everyone hears the term new world whiskey which sort of covers australia india southeast edge all these different ones where everyone's so excited about it but it's so hard to get liquid on lips just for various logistics cost all sorts of things so i think we've got a long way to go in terms of global marketing i think um verbally people know that they're aware, but like, how do we get, how do we get that liquid over there? How do we get it into bottle shops? How do we get it?
00:51:52
Speaker
Um, people trying it. And I think that's a really exciting journey to be a part of that we can see it maybe in a couple years, I'll be over there and gosh, how exciting would to be to have something on the back bar of something that I've made in Scotland and somebody next to me doesn't even know and they're talking about it.
00:52:10
Speaker
so I think it's not for a lack of effort. Everyone is doing fantastic role in terms of promoting themselves, promoting each other. We are a community that rising tide lifts all ships, but it's still not there yet.
00:52:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's so fascinating because the export potential of Australian spirits is so different to craft beer. Like, like you can really send it around the world without losing any quality. and obviously, you Sullivan's Cove and distillates like that won global awards as well. And that kind of means they disappear, but you kind of wonder if people are thinking about it all the time.
00:52:45
Speaker
Scotland's got a lot more history than we do in space. So maybe they'll always win, but be yeah great to see it take off in other places. and and And exactly right. You know, as Australian distilleries are growing, we are getting a little bit more volume. It is sort of year on year.
00:53:00
Speaker
We will be able to take on the big boys, not the millions of leaders, but we will be able to get our brands out there and we will be able to educate drinkers on on choosing a variety.
00:53:11
Speaker
And we've seen that brand loyalty isn't there as it used to know your grandfather would drink one whiskey and that's all he drank and that was nothing else now consumers are willing to try new things and so we will be able to hear people have a scotch have an american have an australian whatever different style that they're like yeah Yeah, we're here at Grainstock today. There's a lot of brewers around. There's a lot of distillers. You're obviously involved with the Institute of Brewing and Distilling, Chartered Institute.
00:53:37
Speaker
um But coming from that distilling world and having that exposure to a lot more brewers as well, do you see there's so many parallels between both industries? Uh, yes and no We're all brothers in fermentation. Uh, so there is a lot of similarities.
00:53:53
Speaker
Um, I, I love freaking brewers out when I have a whiskey and I just pour it on the floor cause I'm like, oh, I'm done. The sanitation always gets me going. um But I think we have so much to learn from each other, from brewers where they're fantastic, yeast management or the sanitation of the hygiene, brought ah distillers in terms of flavour creation, blending, all sorts of different things. So there's a lot of similarities, but ah there is a lot of differences as well.
00:54:24
Speaker
you know And it is what you love. you know I love fermentation. I love talking about grain. You couldn't catch me being a winemaker because they're the people that are passionate about that sort of thing. And so yeah we do have brewers and distillers each in their own camp. We can be buddies, but we know what we what we enjoy doing the most.
00:54:42
Speaker
And it comes the end of the day all my brewing friends drinking whiskey, all my spirits people are drinking a beer. Yeah. Well, you do hear that a lot of beer goes into the manufacturing of spirits as well. So there's ah a clear correlation there.
00:54:56
Speaker
Brothers in Fermentation would be such a good name for a band as well. Maybe we can get t-shirts made. yeah Lisa, thank you so much for joining us. My absolute pleasure. Cheers, mate.
00:55:09
Speaker
The Crafty Pints Pint of Origin Festival will be back in May 2026. Our Choose Your Own Adventure Beer Festival brings together thousands of beer lovers, hundreds of breweries, loads of Melbourne's best venues and beers from all over the world.
00:55:24
Speaker
It's a real one-of-a-kind experience and hugely anticipated every year. Even better, it offers a massive platform for brands to connect with their customers in a meaningful way.
00:55:35
Speaker
If you want to engage with discerning drinkers, with beer venues and breweries, well, we'd love to chat to you about partnership opportunities. We've got the audience and the ideas to help you achieve your objectives at any budget level.
00:55:48
Speaker
Check out our partnership prospectus at pintoforigin.com or drop Craig, that's me, a note at craig at craftypint.com. The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman.
00:56:03
Speaker
You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up-to-date on future podcast episodes via our socials. We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops.
00:56:23
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If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes. And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.