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Episode 14 - The First Battle on Snowshoes
252 Plays2 months ago
Not to be confused with the second (or third) battle on snowshoes! Learn about Robert Rogers and his rangers - try saying that five times fast - and one of their engagements in the bitterly cold winter of 1756-1757. Rogers vs. de Langlade - a showdown for the century!
Intro & outro music - "Drums and Guns" by Village Volunteers Fife & Drum Corps
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Transcript
Introduction to the First Battle on Snowshoes
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome back to Tales from the French and Indian War. i am your host, Jackson. And I am your co-host, Matt. And today we are talking about a fascinating, yet probably not well-known episode of the French and Indian War.
00:00:30
Speaker
There's a very similar occasion that... most people who are into this period probably would have heard of, but this is not the more famous event. Today we are talking about the first battle on snowshoes taking place in the winter
Personal Experiences with Snowshoes
00:00:47
Speaker
1756, 1757. have ever worn snowshoes?
00:00:50
Speaker
matt have you ever ah worn snowshoes No, but my mother-in-law has, and we have them up at their cabin up north in Michigan, and I've always been wanting to try them, but i never thought of them as a military device before reading this episode. And I'll tell you what, the French militia and French forces were very upset that they were not issued them because this. So we will get into that.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, I have used ah snowshoes once. I was visiting family in New Hampshire, and it was the wintertime, and we always tried to do a hike when I'd go out there and visit. And so this time it had happened just after a big snowstorm. So we got snowshoes to hike up the mountain, and then we brought so little sleds to slide down the trails on our way back, which was very fun.
00:01:46
Speaker
You were a true ranger. ah Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't even know about the Rangers of the French and Indian War then. I didn't even have the French and Indian War in my mind at all. What a young, naive lad I was.
00:01:59
Speaker
listeners for a visual depiction of if you need to if you've never seen snowshoes or yeah i mean i think most people have seen them but if you've never worn them or anything we're not really talking about modern snowshoes here we're talking about like 17th century snowshoes so imagine you're strapping a tennis racket to your foot that's uh roughly the equivalent of what these were like at the time honestly it does look pretty similar Yeah.
00:02:24
Speaker
But yeah, basically it just helps you get across whenever there's a ah few inches of snow to a few feet of snow. It helps you traverse that. And it really comes in handy, especially when you're going long distances in snow. I'm sure everyone has... ah unless you live in i don't know somewhere where it never snows i'm sure everyone has experienced when there's a lot of snow on the ground and you're trudging through it and after like 100 feet you're like hoof all right i'm a little tired so walking on top of all that snow rather than walking through it is a big asset hence the snowshoes definitely
Winter Warfare and Historical Context
00:03:03
Speaker
Yeah. So let's get into it. First, we just got to talk about winter in general during these times. I think we've mentioned before on the podcast how the main armies would go into winter quarters during during wars. you know They'd be fighting in the like late spring, summer, and then early fall.
00:03:27
Speaker
maybe even mid to late fall. But as the weather got colder, the bulk of the armies would withdraw to some secure points within their territory where there are lots of farms and cities around where they could have supplies and be safe from enemy attack.
00:03:43
Speaker
And they would wait out the winter until conditions were a little bit better to to attack. And some of that stuff is still consistent.
00:03:54
Speaker
ah Today, you know, I'm thinking about like the war in Ukraine, how the muddy and wintry conditions could really impact the timing of attacks and can really disable a lot of vehicles even today with all the technology.
00:04:11
Speaker
um I remember I feel like I remember reading the reports right before the war started about how the mud would impact like Russian vehicles trying to move across those planes.
00:04:22
Speaker
So even today, winter conditions still play a huge role in the movement of troops and attack plans. And back then it it sure did, too. But ah winter in general back then was actually a bit colder and more intense.
00:04:38
Speaker
So it's not just the effect of stuff like global warming or climate change or anything, you know, how we've had some hotter years on record recently. And there was a period called Little Ice Age that is said to have lasted around, think like 14 or 1500 up to about 1800 And global temperatures...
00:05:00
Speaker
I think, yeah, around mid-1800s, believe around 1850s. So you're talking like close to the beginning of the Civil War was when it finally died down. Yeah.
00:05:11
Speaker
so Yeah. so there's a few centuries where there's these overall colder temperatures. And I think that contrasts within the medieval period. I had read about there being a medieval warming period where temperatures were a little bit warmer then.
00:05:24
Speaker
So we're still in this this mini ice age or little ice age, whatever it was called, whatever whatever ah scientists call it nowadays. ah So winters, especially in North America, were very cold, lots of snow, and most of the fighting would stop because it's ah really hard to move huge amounts of troops and supplies in the winter.
00:05:46
Speaker
Now, that does not mean that nothing happened. As we're going to talk about today, there's lots of small-scale action going on. All throughout the winter, all throughout any kind of time of the year between the French and the British.
00:05:59
Speaker
But the main troops, you're not going see thousands of troops typically moving in the winter.
Adaptation of British Troops to Winter Raids
00:06:05
Speaker
That's a much more difficult affair to arrange. Yeah, for sure. So to just add on to that, the the troops that were active during this time of the year would have been native troops, um which, as we talked about before, have been more prevalent on the French side than the British side for this time. So the battle on snowshoes, the British um contingent of this battle is kind of an answer to this. and And we'll kind of get into this more as we go throughout the episode. But because of the the low level of military power,
00:06:38
Speaker
happenings in the winter supply routes and stuff were a little bit more vulnerable troop security details and stuff were were lessened because there wasn't much of a risk especially for the French because the British didn't have that many native allies that were conducting raids on the frontier at the time ah i think almost all of the raids we've talked about so far outside of maybe one or two have been French or I guess pro-French raids. So I think that kind of has a little bit to do why why this battle happens. And yeah like I said, the British are coming up with their answer to this frontier warfare in the winter, um which is something very out of the norm for the British military, especially on on the mainland. So yeah. Yeah, we're we're definitely going to get into that a bit more because it the the presence of these more nimble, more wilderness focused, more ranger like troops is going, yes, just as you said, to be a ah big asset for the British and cover some of their weaknesses up to this point.
00:07:40
Speaker
Just one more note about the weather before we get into the main actors and the lead up to the action for this skirmish. I was reading through Bougainville's journal, which is a nice primary source I drew for the lead up to the Oswego battle, and I think it will be a primary source for the rest of the war, at least until 1760, I think.
00:08:02
Speaker
But throughout January, he is, i think, either in Quebec City or Fort Saint-Jean, which is, I think, on the the Richelieu River.
00:08:12
Speaker
But he's just you know recording daily entries while he's waiting out the winter in winter winter quarters, mostly just remarking the temperature and if there's any interesting like troop movements or like raiding parties returning or visitors of like Indian chiefs or something like that. But and By January 3rd, he's already remarking in his journal that more snow has fallen than in an entire ordinary winter.
00:08:37
Speaker
Now we can imagine, since he's coming from Europe, where the winters generally don't produce as much snow as in North America, maybe he's a little naive or something, but he is a scientific-minded guy, so i mean he might have been just interviewing locals and they would be saying, yeah, this is more snow than we've than we usually get.
00:08:55
Speaker
ah Regardless, it's a very cold and harsh winter. He's describing heavy snowfalls coming and going, freezing rain. He says that is it is impossible to conceive of a viler sort of weather.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah, if you live in really any part of New England or Ohio or Pennsylvania during this year, 2025 2026, you would know exactly what he's talking about. So imagine fighting for the last few months in the weather that we've had. It's been a particularly harsh winter for today's setting but i'm sure this probably would have been mild back then so just give you some oh modern day yes they would have considered this one mild even though yeah for the last few years we did have a ah pretty intense winter um bougainville records that the temperature in some of the weeks leading up to the battle on snowshoes ranged from negative 29 degrees fahrenheit
00:09:53
Speaker
on the 18th of january up to 32 degrees fahrenheit on the 21st which is the day that this skirmish takes place so yeah i know it got down to like eight degrees six degrees around here around pittsburgh this winter but it did not get to negative 29 degrees no sir thank you um one thing to note uh also on top of these winter conditions is that the supply situation in Canada began to deteriorate noticeably.
00:10:26
Speaker
ah Bougainville notes this. He writes that they will be very much inconvenienced in the coming 1757 campaigns if supplies from France do not arrive soon.
00:10:36
Speaker
When I was researching the the previous episode, he even noted then in 1756 that rations in the different French posts around New France were poor quality.
00:10:47
Speaker
And, you know, this heavy, intense winter is also very demanding on rations and food supplies. So, yeah. We're seeing a the introduction of a theme that will become very important at the end of this year.
00:11:01
Speaker
And in 1758, the food supply, the harvest quality, all of that is going to play a big role in the coming years of the French and Indian War. So with that, I think we've got our background. We have the the stage
Robert Rogers and the Formation of Rogers' Rangers
00:11:15
Speaker
set. We have the environmental factors at play.
00:11:18
Speaker
So Matt, do you want to talk a little bit about the leading figure in this skirmish for the British side, Mr. Robert Rogers? I would love to. um He's probably like my favorite American quote unquote of the war. um You know, obviously he did fight for the British, but he is born and raised in the colonies, ah which isn't very common. So I think he was born. ah believe in 1731 um he was born in massachusetts he didn't live there that long so his uh his family were ulster scots which were a um and i'm not very knowledgeable in this but it's a subset of scottish immigrants uh and they're they're well known throughout history history to be very hardy and
00:12:07
Speaker
A lot of them had served in the military and the Royal military um and stuff. So they're a very hardy group of people. They lived in Massachusetts. after he was born, he actually moved to New Hampshire. Back then it was very much like the frontier. ah you know, that was that was kind of where the line ended, where the road ended. so you, you know, went out there and, you know, you had smaller settlements, cabins, um and then really just dense woodland. And it was a it was a kind of a no-man's land between the British colonies and where the French colonies were. So,
00:12:42
Speaker
This is just to give you some context of where Rogers grew up at. His dad, I actually, i was i was reading this right before we got this episode. I was telling Jackson about it. It's a fun fact, but not that fun. When Roberts was a child, ah his dad went out to visit one of his friends in the wilderness. um He was going up a river got out his canoe walked up to this cabin where his friend was staying his friend mistook his father for a bear uh and shot him and killed him and that's how he lost his father which is a very tragic tale but it i think it goes to show um the frontier land we're talking about you know like these are people that lived
00:13:23
Speaker
in fear of their lives every day, you know, not just from what other colonists would have feared, whereas natives hunger, stuff like that, but also from like wildlife and, uh, just surviving day to day. It was a big thing for them. Um,
00:13:37
Speaker
So that's that's the kind of the you know the area and the area that he grew up in. ah When he got older, he did go into the military. um He was first inducted in the military through, I believe, the King George's War and the War of Austrian Succession, which we've talked about. previously. He didn't really see any service in that war in battle, but he was in the military. Then later on, he he ended up getting, i'm not commissioned, but he joined the New Hampshire militia as a private and a scouting company in 1747.
00:14:16
Speaker
And then later on in 1756, Rogers was recruited by John Winslow, who was an officer in the British military, who was under William Shirley, who was the governor of Massachusetts at the time to form this, they, I think they kind of saw it as more of a scouting regiment, but it was really, you know, what we're going to eventually call Roberts Rangers. They were going to be a frontiersman unit. uh and rogers because of his background as i talked about living in the frontiers growing up there he was tapped to lead this regiment and he was not and as i talked about you know he grew up in in america he wasn't brought up in the british military he didn't adhere to a lot of their customs so when he was looking for men to fill this unit of his rangers he didn't look for um you know wealthy aristocrats and you know the in the colonies or ah from the mainland he looked for people who he thought were going to be successful in this role So he went after like trappers, backwoods men. He had African-Americans in his unit. It was very what you would call almost like a ragtag group of soldiers at the time, but he picked them for very specific reasons.
00:15:29
Speaker
And we'll see that comes out to his benefit. So that's kind of a... with short background on on Robert Rogers, he'll obviously be much more involved, not only in the French and Indian War, but also in the American Revolution, which, oh, Jackson, really quick, I do want to mention, there is a show on Netflix that I suggest everybody watch. It's called Turn. um Jackson, I don't know if you've ever watched this, but it's really good show. It's about the American Revolution, about George Washington's spy ring at the time. But Robert Rogers is portrayed in that. I don't think he's portrayed particularly well in that show. They kind of paint him as a as a villain. and you know, we could talk about Robert Rogers in the Revolutionary War, but eventually Rogers goes on to serve on the British side. He did try to serve on the American side in the Revolutionary War, but... Because he was on the British side, he was kind of portrayed as this evil villain figure. But for our purposes, he's an American hero in the French
Rogers' Scouting Missions and Challenges
00:16:29
Speaker
Indian War. So I would like to remember him as that. For our purposes, he is a dirty British colonist fighting the good Frenchman.
00:16:37
Speaker
He actually, hey, he spoke fluent French. So, ah you know, he is a man of of many talents. Yes, I had read there was some some rumors that he may have been involved in smuggling to Canada, and that is how he had picked up some French, which did actually end up serving him. ah If not in this battle, i think in the next battle in snowshoes, he uses some French to ah temporarily confuse enemies who aren't expecting any French to come out of the enemy's mouths.
00:17:10
Speaker
But I had one quick note. You had mentioned how Rogers was picking the you know the ideal kind of scouter scouting units, you know the the woodsman, anyone who had the skills to succeed in these tough conditions.
00:17:24
Speaker
I had also read he his original companies included quite a few natives from the Mohawk and Pequot tribes. because obviously natives know the the land better than anyone around, and they're very used to traveling, moving through, fighting in the wilderness.
00:17:40
Speaker
But also, that ended up mirroring a bit the more original rangers. So a lot of people who study this time period know about Roger's rangers, but there's another unit of rangers that predates his called Gorham's rangers,
00:17:56
Speaker
They were created in King George's War, the previous one, in 1744. And originally, that was an all-Indian unit led by a British commander, ah well John Gorham, and then his brother, Joseph Gorham.
00:18:10
Speaker
I think they were mostly Wampanoag Indians. And they were sent into what's now Nova Scotia, into Acadia, to help the British efforts there, where they were very effective.
00:18:23
Speaker
And then they make an appearance in this war too. At some point we'll get back to some of what's going on in Acadia and we'll probably talk more about Gorim's Rangers, but um they were very active in Nova Scotia and and Acadia in both this current war and the past war as well.
00:18:40
Speaker
So we see the the genesis, the the beginning of British usage of light infantry at that time. And then with Rogers Rangers, especially, and in the and the next couple of years of this war, we really start to see more widespread adaptation of these methods and this fighting style by the British, which will shore up one of their big weaknesses.
00:19:01
Speaker
Well, yeah, so I think think we are ready to get into the the course of action here. So put on the snowshoes and get ready for battle.
00:19:13
Speaker
Yeah. So let me look at my notes here. So I have Rogers. He's leaving Fort Edward and his goal is to scout out near Crown Point, which is where the French Fort Saint-Frederic is. So Fort Edward, if we remember from, well, this will be there probably our Lake George, Battle of Lake George episode. That is a fort just to the south of Fort William Henry. Fort William Henry is on the southern tip of Lake George.
00:19:40
Speaker
ah So Fort Edward is, you know, like a, a second line fort protecting kind of the portage from the ah the the Hudson River up to Lake George. and Rogers and his rangers companies, I think there's about four of them at this time, they are stationed around Fort William Henry and Fort Edward. and They're operating, they're running raids, they're doing ah patrols, you know all sorts of things in the upstate New York area.
00:20:05
Speaker
So Rogers and about 50 of his Rangers or so those, was that was typically around the the company size for, for his Ranger units. They're leaving for Edward heading North. They get to Fort William Henry. They start making some snowshoes there, which of course will serve them well and the name to the battle.
00:20:25
Speaker
And then on January 17th, they are leaving. So they've got Rogers and a couple other officers, including John Stark, who I think will come back in and out throughout the war.
00:20:35
Speaker
And then two other officers, Spikeman and Kennedy, as some of the the main leaders. They had, oh yeah, just about 74 people after they departed from Fort William Henry.
00:20:47
Speaker
They follow a zigzagging path north and east and west, and they're going mostly across Lake George for the most part because it is completely frozen over at this time, and that means it's going to be the quickest route because everywhere else is forests, and it's a lot easier to travel over a smooth, iced-over lake than up and down the hills around the forest.
00:21:12
Speaker
So eventually they pass Fort Carillon, that's the front most French position, that is what is now called Ticonderoga. Then after they pass Fort Carillon undetected, they spot a sleigh moving over the ice ah from Fort Carillon to Fort Saint-Frédéric. So I think at this point, if I'm looking at my map correctly, that would be um more on Lake Champlain at this point. Or no, this is... Yeah, I had it in my notes as Lake Champlain. Yeah, or it's like right very close to the the beginning of...
00:21:48
Speaker
Lake Champlain, I guess. It's right in that in-between point between Lake George and Lake Champlain. So you as ah Rogers spots these sleighs moving from one French fort to another, they decide this is a good time to to jump to the attack, intercept it, get some prisoners, and then and then see what happens. Bring them back from there.
00:22:11
Speaker
So he moves to engage. um This would be only the 21st, Matt. Correct. Yeah, the morning of the 21st. Yeah, so they've been already traveling for through three, four days now in the dead of winter until they finally reach a target and they pounce.
French Response and Ambush on Rogers' Rangers
00:22:31
Speaker
So um they do intercept some of the sledges, some of the sleighs. Some of them, however, will get away and come right back where they came to warn the commander at Fort Carillon.
00:22:46
Speaker
So that is Delucignon. He's the the commander of Fort Carillon. He gets a word from some of these slaves that come back saying, hey, we've been attacked. Some of our men have been captured, killed. Some of the slaves have been taken. ah There's you know British units out on the prowl on this cold January day.
00:23:04
Speaker
So de Lusignan, he is going to send out immediately 100 regulars and Marines under the command of officers de Basse-Rôde and d'Astrelle. And he's going to send a familiar figure out as well to lead a party of mostly Ottawa Indians that had been stationed there, or at least were visiting at that time.
00:23:25
Speaker
And that leader is Charles-Michel de Langlade. So if that name sounds... familiar to our listeners. He is the one who led the raid on Pikulani that we talked about very early. He was present at the Battle of the Monongahela, aka Raddick's Defeat, and we had that short little biographical episode about him Oh, and he's also Jackson's eighth cousin once removed. No, no, no. He's my my second cousin, twice removed, brother-in-law. That was Charles Lancroix. By marriage. Probably the reason he's most famous.
00:24:01
Speaker
Fuck dad yeah, of course, of course. It's by marriage. Yeah. um this is This guy, he's he's half French Canadian. His father was a fur trader and his mother was an Ottawa Indian. So he's very experienced in both of the realms of navigating French colonial structure and society, but then also wilderness fighting and survival from his Indian heritage.
00:24:23
Speaker
Very experienced warrior and he's leading the about about 80 or so Indians there with them. And ah yeah, so they they head out in pursuit.
00:24:38
Speaker
Yeah. um And then Jackson, I'll get to the the point of how they found ah Robert Rogers, if you're if you're good to get into that part of the battle now. Yeah, by all means. ah So this will take us into some of Robert's own rules that he has created, which we have not talked about yet. So outside of leading Robert's Rangers, Robert Rogers is also famous for writing his 28 rules of ranging. Which I recommend listeners just go on Google, just search that 28 rules of range and you can find them. I would recommend trying to find either the US Army website or some other contemporary website that has the modern version of them because it's easier to read. But regardless, it's a very fascinating read. Basically in these 28 rules, Robert sets out a, basically a play-by-play of how you should operate on the frontier um and how to operate as a skirmishing company and what are good tracking tactics, what are things that you should do to throw the enemy off your trail, what good positioning you should use, like not, letting yourself get between a body of water and an enemy force, stuff like that.
00:25:56
Speaker
Very interesting. Historically, it's very important, but it also is used in modern days. So the U.S. Army Rangers still use Robert's 28 Rules of Ranging as a core principle in their teachings. It has been simplified versus what he wrote, but the main elements are still there. I would recommend you go read that. But this is important because one of his rules in those 28 rules is to never ah take the same path.
00:26:26
Speaker
back the way that you came shows the enemy exactly where uh you you came from and where you're going back to uh it's easy to ambush you and um unfortunately for roberts he did not listen to his own rules um at this point and he against the advice of his officers in his company he took the same route back to I believe the fort they were going back to. And that's where they got ambushed by the French. And the French found them along that trail. So I just wanted to add that fun little tidbit in. Yeah, another tip. I haven't read the the ranging rules, so maybe you can tell me if this is one of the rules. But one of the sources i had read ah mentioned that as the rangers were passing by on the same trail at about 3 p.m., they were singing while they marched. And I feel like it would probably be a ranging rule, like don't sing while you're in enemy territory because that will attract attention. Is there anything in there about that?
00:27:26
Speaker
It is. Yes, there is a rule as 28 rules that you should not alert the enemy to your presence. And it's funny because we've talked about, you know, there's more battles, snowshoes in 1758. The second battle snowshoes, that one, I don't want to spoil too much. It doesn't go well for Roberts in that battle either because his men alert the British to their present or alert the French to their presence because they were having a shooting competition in the woods.
00:27:53
Speaker
And ah the sound alerted the French to their position. And I haven't researched that battle too much, but do know that. So he broke another one of his rules in that battle. And he obviously broke it the same. guess that's a do as I say, not as I do kind of thing. Yes. If you want to see his ah rules in action, go to the third battle Snowshoes. And I promise you it gets better. But ah yeah, that's kind of a funny tidbit.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah, well, so yeah, as they're returning on the same trail they took up, they're passing through like I think like a depression in the ground, like a small valley, not exactly a huge valley, but they're in between two hills.
00:28:33
Speaker
Oh, actually, i had one of the sources I'd read, said this skirmish took place about two leagues, which is just a few miles southwest of Fort Carrion.
00:28:43
Speaker
And on Google Maps, it was by Trout Brook. There's a couple of those. That's not super specific, but I think it lines up, if you're following on Google Maps, around the Faroe Lake wilderness area currently. So that's just a little bit southwest of what is now Ticonderoga.
00:29:00
Speaker
And if you zoom in there, you can eventually find a trout brook. And it starts somewhere along this hilly wilderness terrain um just on the eastern side of New York, not far from Lake George and Lake Champlain that this action took place. But as the rangers moving in a column, single file formation...
00:29:20
Speaker
are moving through this depression. Suddenly they hear, well, it would have been a great tremendous bang, but they hear a lot of clicking and some bangs. So there is the French who have gotten there before them and have set up an ambush looking down into this valley led by Langlade and his natives.
00:29:45
Speaker
They get an opening volley completely by surprise against their enemies, but as it had been raining throughout the day and they had come straight from the fort with no time to dry their muskets or powder, a lot of the French muskets misfire.
00:30:03
Speaker
So the opening volley, well, it does do some damage and it takes their enemies by surprise. It could have been devastating, but their equipment was not in great shape for action.
00:30:15
Speaker
ah I saw some contradictory things about Kennedy's fate, whether he was killed in that first volley or if later in the battle he got killed by tomahawks. I'm not sure, but it seemed like he might have died. One of the Rangers officers died right in that opening moment.
00:30:33
Speaker
volley and rogers himself was injured twice during the action possibly once in the beginning and then later on as this battle will last a few different hours matt do you have anything about the the opening parts of the battle or do you want to take the narrative i have some notes here but i'll pass it back to you if you ah sure i mean i think you probably have more than i do i mean So we talked about how the French, you know, were a little bit ticked off that they weren't issued snowshoes, which to me is like insane that they weren't issued snowshoes as a regular part of their...
00:31:11
Speaker
The regulars didn't have them, but I have to imagine that the natives under Delanglade, I have to imagine they would have had snowshoes, and it was just like half of the French force that didn't. But I couldn't i didn't find anything that specifically said they did, so it could have very well been that none of them at Fort Carillon had snowshoes ready to go, or at least not enough for the whole 180 troops sent out to pursue Rogers. Yeah, so I mean, obviously, the snowshoes here for the Rangers were a big advantage um you know being heavily outnumbered as it were I think and Jackson I think my numbers might differ a little bit from yours I hit the French at around 250 total um you know and Rogers being at around like 75 ish Rangers at this time um
00:31:58
Speaker
the casualties overall in the battle were pretty similar um it eventually the the rangers did have to give ground and retreat which i would like to say that they did um follow his rules of ranging on the retreat uh so one of his rules is that when you retreat you should basically select a gathering place and then you all retreat in separate directions and then you eventually come back together at whatever this gathering place would be. So that the enemy has many different paths of retreat to follow to see like where you went, but then eventually you converge back into one. So They did do that. um
00:32:39
Speaker
So a lot of the the Ranger element was saved through the retreat. It wasn't a route or anything. it was more of like what would we would consider a tactical retreat. um But overall, i mean for being so heavily outnumbered, the Rangers did put up a pretty solid fight against the French. um And like I said, pretty similar casualty numbers and part of that and well the French really attributed to the fact that the British had snowshoes ah but just because, you know, they were like, oh, the mobility is so much better, whereas the French forces are trudging through this heavy snow and probably made it you know, tracking down a retreat kind of impossible.
00:33:15
Speaker
Yeah, and you got to think that if the French were on one or both sides of this valley firing down and the Rangers are spread out in a long column, having that extra mobility would have definitely helped the Rangers in backing up, getting in a more defensible formation as they as they slowly work their way back.
Tactical Retreat and Aftermath of the Battle
00:33:36
Speaker
ah while the French could not pursue and just run down the hills and cut them down because they are trudging through one or two feet of snow, at least at least the regulars are, and they can't kind of get into close range very quickly. John Stark, one of the officers there, he really shines during this engagement because he's in the rear of the column of rangers, and closer to the rear, there are some woods because they were going through in a more open area in that valley.
00:34:06
Speaker
But he kind of and his his soldiers back there, they are keeping up fire against the French natives as the rangers in the most danger in the front retreat towards him and get into that tree line where they're meeting back up and coordinating and then returning fire against the French.
00:34:24
Speaker
They dig in a bit there in the tree line, which gives them some great cover. At some point, it's hard to know the timing of some of these events because there's only a handful of sources, especially primary sources. There's not too many of this battle. So it's hard to give a precise timetable of like, and this is when the French tried to attack with bayonet and tomahawk and then they were beat back.
00:34:47
Speaker
you know But at some point, the French did try to move into to melee. um But this did not work out. Rogers, he one of the main things he was worried about was a flanking attack during this action, and especially because he was outnumbered. So that's going to be one of the easiest ways for enemies to defeat him.
00:35:05
Speaker
He kept a small party of troops in reserve. So I think this would have been after they retreated to the woods. So he's got some people not engaging in the fight but waiting in the back. When some of the French come to try to flank, that's when they they spring out and kind of lay down some fire, causing the attackers to withdraw.
00:35:25
Speaker
So all in all, after being caught by surprise, which was definitely their fault for breaking the ranging rules, they did. The Rangers definitely recovered well, got back to a more defensible position,
00:35:38
Speaker
ah And then as the battle is about to close, as nightfall is coming, there's an interesting note that there's a lot of verbal exchange between the two sides during the battle.
00:35:50
Speaker
The French were calling out to Rogers by name and saying, oh, it would be a pity for so many brave men to die. They should just surrender. We we will we'll treat you well. um But eventually nightfall comes and Rogers takes the limited visibility as a as cover to retreat.
00:36:10
Speaker
It is ah a little bit more of a hastier retreat because the French ah take some of their provisions, their snowshoes, some snowshoes, and then also they're wounded. so the the Rangers were not able to,
00:36:24
Speaker
get out there get out there wounded from the battle, leaving those men behind, including Spikeman, one of the officers. ah And then the French discover the prisoners from the sleigh attack were killed by the British upon withdrawal because they were like, we can't take these prisoners back. It'll slow us down.
00:36:44
Speaker
we're just going to We're just going to kill them and get out of here. So with that, the battle ends as the bulk of the Rangers withdraw from action and start heading back south.
00:36:55
Speaker
All right. So the, know, we mentioned the French regulars or perhaps all of the French were at a disadvantage because they didn't have the snowshoes. Their commander de Basraud was wounded. So was Rogers.
00:37:09
Speaker
John Stark. I don't know. I don't think he was wounded. I'm not sure. No, I ah didn't see that he was. Okay. Bougainville, when he receives word about this engagement, he reports it as a great success, reporting British casualties as over 40.
00:37:26
Speaker
Obviously, that's an exaggeration. They did not have a 60% casualty rate. casualty rate um But he thinks that de Lusignan, the commander of Fort Carillon, was taking unnecessary risks by sending out almost 200 troops in ah in pursuit of these people and then thus leaving Fort Carillon light on defenses.
00:37:48
Speaker
As the Rangers withdraw and keep moving down to Fort William Henry, Stark, he pushes on to get some sledges to bring back, and then some of their more walking wounded that made it out, ah they can bring them back easier. So I feel like Stark is the MVP from this engagement for the British side, or or just overall, definitely putting in his getting putting in his share of work in battle and in logistics there ah shall we get into the aftermath of this battle I mean obviously it wasn't a large scale one compared to what we've talked about but there is still some some aftermath effects I don't know if you have anything or if I just jump into it
00:38:31
Speaker
I had, I had just a few, like just tidbits of information. Like, uh, so for one, and I don't, I don't know if you'd mentioned this Jackson, but, uh, Rogers actually, he ordered the execution of all the French prisoners that they had taken in the initial ambush. Um, did you already talk about that? Sorry if you did, I can't.
00:38:52
Speaker
yeah Oh, you did. Okay. Yeah. So he did, he did execute them. And then, um There were some rangers taking captive as well. um One of the more famous stories from that is Thomas Brown, who was 17 when he was captured. And I believe he did not get released until um several years later. 1760. I have that in here as well. yeah you can You can read his account, listeners. It has got a very, very long title, which I will read here.
00:39:25
Speaker
um So I'm glad you brought him up, Matt, but the title of his account is a plain narrative of the uncommon sufferings and remarkable deliverance of Thomas Brown of Charleston in New England, who returned to his father's house the beginning of January 1760 after having been absent three years and about eight months.
00:39:43
Speaker
containing an account of the engagement between a party of English commanded by Major Rogers and a party of French and Indians in January, 1757, how he was taken captive by the Indians and carried to Canada and from thence to the Mississippi, where he lived about a year and was again sent to Canada.
00:39:58
Speaker
So that is all, that is the title. They really had long titles back in the 1700s. For sure. Yeah. um Yeah. He ended up being like in prison in Montreal and seeing his captain scalped and, you know So even though you know a lot of these, we talk about some captives being taken in these battles, the ordeals for them lasted years and years to come. So um some might argue it was better to be killed than you know be a captive at the hands of the natives or i mean even sometimes the French or the British. so
00:40:30
Speaker
Yeah, it it's sobering to think about whenever we talk about like the casualties at the end of an encounter, how many killed, how many wounded, or how many prisoner. Like those aren't just numbers at the end of the day. These people whose entire lives are completely upended. Like Thomas Brown's, you know, being carried across like half of North America as a slave essentially. And he had to like run the gauntlet. He encountered torture. i think his fellow prisoner was killed and he had to witness that. think that was Spikeman, the officer who was wounded.
00:41:03
Speaker
Um, so yeah, a lot of terrible ordeals. His has gone down in history cause he survived and wrote down his account, which it doesn't take long to read, but how many, you know, how many others are just lost to history and, you know, we're just, just disappeared as a result of these engagements or some of the raids that happened.
00:41:23
Speaker
Very, uh, very so sobering. But yeah ah one other little aftermath effect from this is that there's some British prisoners from this battle, obviously, as we just talked about, and Bougainville questions them once they're brought back to those more secure French forts.
00:41:40
Speaker
And so the French are going to learn some more intimate details about Fort William Henry, Fort Edward, British military movements therein. and then there is an effect on some later engagements where British prisoners...
00:41:56
Speaker
that were taken in this battle, some of them will end up helping the French in some of their next offensive moves as a way to kind of not necessarily gain freedom, but gain better treatment and not risk getting killed or tortured or sold off as a slave to, you know, the Ohio country or Mississippi or, you know, God knows where.
00:42:15
Speaker
So they're small, small engagement, but it will have some effect with some of the next couple episodes that we'll be talking about here. Yeah, definitely.
Legacy and Later Life of Robert Rogers
00:42:23
Speaker
And, you know, as we get later into the war, um we might cover the 1758 and 1759 Battle Snowshoes, even if not main episodes, just to discuss what happened at those, because um they're fascinating as well. And they're very easily easy to confuse with these Battle Snowshoes because they involved the same people, mostly. um They did involve Robert's Rangers, so that if you look up Robert's Rangers Battle Snowshoes, you will likely come across the wrong battle unless you look at the year. So, um
00:42:52
Speaker
But yeah, no, this was fascinating to learn about. it And I'm glad we talked about it because I think ah I had never heard of this before, you know, you'd brought it up as an episode topic, Jackson. And I'm glad we did. It's I like, like I said, Robert's Robert Rangers is one of my favorite ah military commanders at this time. And like I guess said, my favorite quote unquote American. So it was fun to cover this.
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah. Very fascinating stuff. ah I'd also like to shout out the YouTube channel that Matt and I discovered shortly before doing this episode. There's a channel called the Woodland Escape Podcast.
00:43:30
Speaker
ah And they do a ah lot of content based in the 1700s. It's a Canada-based channel. And they had and a video about Robert Rogers and winter warfare and just the general conditions and how one might survive winter.
00:43:48
Speaker
the winter in the 1700s so definitely go check that out uh if you wish it was kind of neat when matt and i were talking before recording uh he was like hey have you there's this channel you got to check out and as he was saying i was like oh is it the woodland escape i just i was just watching one of those videos so yes some uh parallel thought as they say ah Yes, and also watch, as i I mentioned, watch Turn on Netflix. If you just want to see a portrayal of Robert Rogers, maybe some could argue that it's how he was viewed by the American colonists in the Revolutionary War. But um I am blinking on the actor's name now that portrays him, but it's an excellent, um not I wouldn't say, like said, not an excellent portrayal, but a great performance and highly recommend that show if you're interested in that period as well.
00:44:39
Speaker
Yeah, I do not know much about Robert Rogers' later life. I just remember reading he got mixed up in some kind of like legal trouble or or something like that, or there's something shady he did, but I have no idea. his his Yeah, his life does get a little bit sadder as it goes on. um He does eventually die alone and poor because he... falls into alcoholism and i think that was actually fairly common for military commanders of this day because once their military service is over they don't have much else but anyways yeah he obviously had a huge part in the revolutionary war um he wanted to be in america he wanted to find the american side but he was denied by george washington who thought he was more of a loyalist and can never really be trusted. So then he was kind of forced to fight on the British side. um
00:45:33
Speaker
And I think that, you know, that's, he had a lot of, I think some hate in his heart because of that, because he was, he was loyal to his country, but he was still denied that opportunity, which um I think leads us some reasons why he was viewed as a villain in that, in that war, but, uh, regardless, it's go on. that tree i bet the Americans would have appreciated a few, hundred extra Ranger units, or hundred extra Rangers fighting alongside them. Uh, in the revolutionary war, but that is not the, uh, that is not the past that we have. That'll be a, what if, what if Rogers was better received by Washington, but yeah, so that wraps up this episode.
00:46:14
Speaker
I've got a surprise for Matt for the next episode. i have the notes pretty much already done. so he has no idea what it's about. And then I'm thinking, As we're getting close to April, specifically April 1st, I think I also have a really good short episode for that day, which Matt also doesn't know about. So couple so Matt will be kept guessing for a couple weeks. This could be a surprise. yeah Maybe um I'll have him make it up to me by having him plan an episode like three episodes from now.
00:46:48
Speaker
Okay. sound Yeah, that's ah that's a good plan. I like that. Well, yeah, thank you guys for listening as always. ah We really appreciate it. i haven't checked the stats recently to see if we got anyone in North Dakota to listen to us. But ah regardless, we're very glad to have you all listening in. If you have any episode suggestions, please let us know. You know, I'd hate to skip over something really interesting or fascinating that we might otherwise not have been aware of.
00:47:16
Speaker
But yeah, anything else to add before we close, Matt? uh yeah so we we just hit 5 000 plays on spotify so thank you all for helping us get there that was awesome we got a comment on spotify saying good job from nebraska so uh thank you chan man for that we appreciate that um but yeah so yeah i know keep engaging with us keep telling us what you want to hear about we're happy to do episodes about whatever obviously we find this fun to do so yeah keep keep uh giving us ideas
00:47:48
Speaker
All right. And with that, you guys have lovely rest of your day and you will hear from us very soon. thanks