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Episode 7 - The Battle of Lake George
241 Plays3 months ago
Upstate New York will see much fierce fighting throughout the war. Join us as we discuss the first of these large-scale encounters between the French, the British, and their respective Native American allies. French general Dieskau prepares a nimble, deadly strike against the advancing British - will William Johnson's provincial troops be able to stand their ground? Tune in to find out.
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Transcript
Introduction to the 1755 Campaign in New York
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome back to Tales from the French and Indian War. I am your host, Jackson, and by my side, as always, is... Your wonderful co-host, Matt. And we are back again talking today about the action in upstate New York in
Recap: British Successes and Failures
00:00:31
Speaker
1755. The other two prongs of Newcastle and Cumberland's four pronged assault on New France with the goal of completely taking it by storm in one campaign season.
00:00:43
Speaker
So last week, or not week, I guess, last episode, we talked about a great success and a great failure for the British. The success of seizing control of most of Acadia in modern-day Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.
00:00:59
Speaker
And then the great failure of the Battle of the Monongahela, also known as Braddock's Defeat, where Braddock was defeated.
Trivia: Origin of 'Cajun'
00:01:08
Speaker
So today we're talking about what's going on in upstate New York, the middle ground between these two, so the wide right flank and then the wide left flank of this assault.
00:01:19
Speaker
Are you ready, Matt? Anything to say before we jump in? I'm so ready and I encourage our listeners to always keep an eye out for the fun facts that we might reference. Last episode, Jackson talked about how the word Cajun comes from the Acadians being exiled out Canada and then eventually making their way down to
Strategic Importance of Waterways
00:01:39
Speaker
Louisiana. I brought that up to my wife and my sister-in-law and I was like, oh, hey, guess what?
00:01:45
Speaker
Because they were talking about Cajun stuff and I was like, oh, I know this and you don't. So it's always fun to have those in the back pocket. And since like this is happening on American soil, a lot of like these places and things will come up. So you get to throw in a little bit of history knowledge and sound really smart.
00:02:01
Speaker
Yeah, want to charm and enchant your friends and family with amazing little facts and trivia? Well, keep listening and we'll we'll give you everything you need to sound sophisticated and knowledgeable.
00:02:14
Speaker
alllthough All the well-actualies you need. Yes, yes. All right. Well, let's get into it. Yes. So today we're zooming in on Eastern upstate New York.
00:02:26
Speaker
So specifically, we're going to be talking about the area around, well, Lake George, as we are talking about the Battle of Lake George. at it Oh, what is mostly called was it called Lake George before the Battle, Jackson? oh Well, we'll get in the we'll get into that. Don't you worry. Yeah.
00:02:43
Speaker
but yeah So for our listeners, for some knowledge of the geography of the area, this is going to take place on one of the main highways of the British colonies or ah but ah short distance from it.
00:02:58
Speaker
So the Hudson River at this time, going up from the Atlantic into like where New York City is, and then pretty much straight north. Or guess technically it's flowing from north down south into the Atlantic.
00:03:10
Speaker
But this is the highway for the British colonies to get to upstate New York. The biggest town up there is Albany, which is one of the centers of the British fur trade. And then from Albany, we're not far from it, is the Mohawk River going west across upstate New York.
00:03:27
Speaker
That is leading to frontier settlements and then the powerful Iroquois League. And then north of Albany, through some different portages and rivers, is a ah section of that talking about Lake George, which is a very, very long and narrow lake north to south.
00:03:46
Speaker
And then not too far north of that is Lake Champlain, which is also more or less narrow, but it's it's very it goes very far north to south, but not not so ah far east to west. And that's the border between Vermont and New York.
00:04:04
Speaker
So this is the area that we are focusing in today. And I saw a, we had a comment on Apple podcasts when I was looking at there. I hadn't checked in a while and we have a listener who was just visiting some history sites around the Lake George area and was enjoying following the podcast as a,
00:04:23
Speaker
he or she was diving into French and Indian War history. So hopefully this episode can teach you something new about the area or at least go right in line with what you were learning as you were going along in your history tour.
00:04:37
Speaker
Thanks for listening. We appreciate it. Yeah, definitely. right. So, oh, you have, you have something? Go ahead. I was just going to say, ah you know, like to piggyback on the historical significance of this waterway that, that flows down from like the top of New York and down into New York city through the Hudson river.
00:04:57
Speaker
ah Jackson I had talked about this a little bit before the episode, but this route of, of water served as a highway between ah Montreal and New York. So,
00:05:08
Speaker
Really, I mean, if you think about it, like um like during the Civil War, how Richmond and ah in Washington, D.C. were so close and they had direct routes between each other. That's why this this waterway becomes a major point of focus is because this is a direct route that each side could send troops on. And it was also a huge point of contention about who was going to control this waterway.
00:05:29
Speaker
And if you did control it, then you could force settlers and ah military forces up throughout North America and into different colonies. So I just kind of wanted to highlight the fact that this does actually ah connect two major settlements, both on the British and the French side. and We'll see more conflict here as the war goes on.
00:05:50
Speaker
Yep, that's a great point. This will be a focal area for several years in a row for this war. There's almost always going to be some kind of action up till the end of the war, effectively, in North America.
00:06:01
Speaker
But yeah, ah basically, if if the British were to control Lake George and Lake Champlain, then they are very close and within striking distance to Montreal, one of the the largest, most productive cities or settlements of the French in Canada.
00:06:17
Speaker
And ah Vice versa, if the French were to secure Lake Champlain and then Lake George, they are going to be very close to Albany, that critical trading and commercial hub for the British colonies. And then if they were to take Albany, then it's not that far to get into some of the bigger New England settlements, like strike into Massachusetts or go down the river and attack New York, which of course would be a huge blow.
00:06:41
Speaker
So this is a a critical waterway, as Matt highlighted. And it's also like the shortest distance between the major population centers of the French and British, respectively.
Leadership: Discau and Johnson
00:06:53
Speaker
It's like the Ohio country, Fort Duquesne, you know, that's way out there on the edge of the wilderness and very far from major population centers.
00:07:02
Speaker
And then Acadia is also on the edge of the British and French colonies, still pretty far from major population centers. But this upstate New York waterway, the chain of waterways and portages is, even though it's wilderness, the most direct route for the two armies to face off.
00:07:19
Speaker
And I would just to add to that, I would encourage the listeners to go on like Google Earth or some other type of map and and look at the structure of Lake George and Lake Champlain. They look more like very large rivers than they do lakes. And that's because the rivers flow through them and continue on past them.
00:07:37
Speaker
So it it makes a lot more sense when you see them live. So I encourage you to do that, just to go in there and you can see a very direct route straight from Montreal down to New York. So just kind of interesting to see.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah. So one of the things we left off with at the last episode, one of the effects of Braddock's defeat is that the French were able to capture the war plans for the British.
00:08:02
Speaker
And that is going to precipitate or lead into this battle. So originally the French commander, the commander of the French forces in North America, he was the Baron of, I think it would be pronounced because he was German, Discau.
00:08:18
Speaker
I'm not exactly certain about that. um So he was a German in the service of the French army and a veteran of the previous war between the two in Europe. ah So that would be the war of Austrian succession. Okay.
00:08:31
Speaker
uh his name was jean erdmann in french but in uh german it would have been ludwig august von disco so what's called disco and i hope that's correct pronunciation anyone can feel free to correct me in the comments as always we're not professionals we just really like this time period As a non-French speaker or German speaker, that sounded correct to me. So yes keep it up, Jackson.
00:08:55
Speaker
Thank you. I appreciate the the confidence. So he is a veteran of previous wars. you know you're You're kind of your typical experienced European commander. He's been sent to the New World in 1755. He was on one of those ships that Admiral Boscoen was not able to capture coming into New France, along with reinforcements.
00:09:16
Speaker
So the war this this year could have turned out very differently for the French if Bosquin had captured his ship instead of the Alcide and the Lys in early June.
00:09:28
Speaker
But he gets notice of the British war plan, so he knows that the British are planning to march and sail up north from Albany up towards Montreal.
00:09:39
Speaker
The goal of the British is to take Fort Saint-Frederic in Crown Point, just north of Ticonderoga. And then, if possible, push forward from there. But that is the main French installation in the area. So that's the main target.
00:09:51
Speaker
At the same time, Shirley, William Shirley, is heading west. His goal is Fort Niagara. So the French learn of these plans and Discau was originally going to attack the British Fort Oswego, which is the only British installation contesting Lake Ontario, you know, between the French St. Lawrence River and then French Fort Niagara.
00:10:13
Speaker
So originally he was going to attack there, but after learning of these plans and the British attack north through Lake George, Lake Champlain, he's going to pivot under orders from the governor and address the British thrust that way.
00:10:28
Speaker
So already we see the effects of the the battles we talked about in last episode are directly affecting these battles that are about to take place in September of 1755.
00:10:40
Speaker
seventeen fifty five So, the for example, the Battle of the Monongahela happened in July, early July of 1755. The intel makes its way back to New France and it is acted upon...
00:10:53
Speaker
here as we are in getting into the end of August and the this battle will take place on September 8th. So Discau is going to depart with about 1500 men. He's going to, he has more than that, that he comes down with, but he's going to leave some behind at Ticonderoga to start building a new French fort, Fort Carillon.
00:11:15
Speaker
And he's going to start heading south to contest the British advance, halt them, defeat them, send them packing with about 1,500 men. It's a mix of about 200 French grenadiers, so well-trained and disciplined frontline soldiers.
00:11:34
Speaker
and About 600 Canadian militia and about 700 natives with him, mostly from the Abenaki, some of the Mohawks who had been more in the pro-French circle of influence, and then Nipissing Indians as well.
00:11:50
Speaker
So he's heading south across Lake George through the wilderness and the woods on the east side of Lake George to attack the British. But we got to back up and kind of go over what the British thrust north was looking like.
00:12:04
Speaker
William Johnson, the leader of this British force moving north, He has a very interesting background. He's an immigrant. He was born in Ireland to either a lower middle class or poor family. i think I've seen conflicting information as to exactly what the economic status of his family was.
00:12:26
Speaker
But a large Irish family, he moves over to the British colonies to manage his uncle's one of his uncle's, his his property in along the Mohawk River, supposed to develop it, kind of oversee it, run the day-to-day operations. I believe he also like was engaged in fur trading a bit too. I think he like managed the state, like, which was very common at that time. But then I think he also kind of helped run a fur trading business.
00:12:52
Speaker
Yeah, he's going to get involved in a lot of different things ah because he's right on the frontier, not far from where the Mohawk Iroquois are established. So he's in constant contact with them. There's a lot of commercial opportunities from that, including the fur trade.
00:13:07
Speaker
He's involved in some land speculation and business dealings. And because he's so close to the Iroquois orbit, He, unlike most other British settlers, he's actually going to really spend a lot of time immersing himself in Iroquois culture to the point where he learns the language very well, or at least the Mohawk language. I'm not sure as how mutually intelligible the different Iroquois tribes are.
00:13:36
Speaker
ah Their languages were, I'm sure, they were all Iroquoian languages, so there's and they were in a league together, so I'm sure just knowing Mohawk Iroquois would mean he would be able to communicate with any of these six nations. But he learns their language, he treats them pretty well, unlike a lot of the other British settlers, so much so that he ends up getting adopted, like, officially into the Iroquois League, and he gets an honormer he becomes an honorary chief,
00:14:03
Speaker
and gets the name, i don't know how to pronounce this very well, Waragi Yegi. ah So he is a ah rare example of a British colonist who is seeking out, understanding, and immersing himself in native culture to the point where he is accepted, and he's going to become a very powerful intermediary between the British colonists and the governors and the Iroquois League, who the British are really hoping...
00:14:31
Speaker
will either be neutral or more preferably help them in this war fight against the French. I believe he married into a to an Iroquois Confederacy tribe as well, correct?
00:14:42
Speaker
I'd heard he had a lot of different romantic affairs, according to some sources, but he one of the long-term relationships he had was with a native woman who ended up being known as Molly Brandt, who was the sister of the eventual Mohawk leader, Joseph Brandt, who plays a big role in the American Revolution.
00:15:04
Speaker
Molly Brown was who I was thinking of. Yes. Okay. So yeah, he's getting very much involved and exposed to the natives and trying to help leverage them and influence them to stick to the British rather than going to the French.
00:15:22
Speaker
and In addition to his military role, because of this involvement in the Iroquois Confederacy, he becomes the British Superintendent of Indian Affairs in 1755. So he gets an appointment from the Crown as well.
00:15:35
Speaker
and right Yes. Yep. So normally... each Indian tribe is discussing and doing diplomacy with representatives from each of the colonies. So it can be a ah source of great contention and frustration for the natives and for the colonies because, you know, the natives might be dealing with one or two officials from the British colonies and make a deal, but then another colony doesn't have to respect that deal because they never made it. You know, there's been a lot of ah previous issues between the British colonies and Indians because of,
00:16:11
Speaker
you know 13 different British representatives, each representing their colony to all of these different tribes. So eventually, yes, in 1755, William Johnson does become the superintendent of Indian affairs.
00:16:23
Speaker
So he is like the official Indian agent. All Indian diplomacy is supposed to be routed through him, or at the very least, I know all Indian diplomacy of the Iroquois League is supposed to be routed through him, and he is the the crown's representative So that's going to be a ah huge streamlining of the kind of chaotic diplomacy and more ineffective diplomacy of the previous years.
Battle of Lake George: Initial Engagement
00:16:47
Speaker
I think it's pretty impressive, too, that it came up kind of organically. And you would think if this Britain was going to appoint one of their own to be a the superintendent and of Indian Affairs, they probably would have just appointed a military commander or someone who had bought a commission in the same sense. But this This actually develops into a very profitable relationship with the British. And we'll see that you're going to see become a strong ally moving forward.
00:17:11
Speaker
I think William Johnson has hand in that. like jo has ah has a huge hand in that Yeah, William Johnson, he is massive player in upstate New York and massive player for the British and Indian relationships, which to this point have not been that solid.
00:17:30
Speaker
But for this push where Johnson is moving forward... He is able to leverage his relationships and get a few hundred Mohawk Indians to join the force of about, I think it is two or 3000 provincials.
00:17:46
Speaker
Yes, I have here. He's got about 2000 provincial infantry. So no British Redcoats, no regulars. and about 200 Mohawks. They're moving up north. They take some time to cover their advance. So they start building a fort that will be known as Fort Edward along the way. So this slows down their advance, but where Braddock ran into the issue of he pushed so far through the wilderness, and then when he got defeated, they had to retreat all the way back to Fort Cumberland, the Cumberland Gap.
00:18:18
Speaker
he William Johnson is building some forts as he goes so that if there is, they run into trouble, if they need a place to hold up. They will have some. One quick note checks. And I want to talk about, or just mentioned to me about Johnson's force. I know you'd mentioned there's 2000 provincials, 200 Mohawks and no regulars.
00:18:36
Speaker
The 2000 provincials included in this force have, as far as I've read, they have no battle experience prior to this. Um, So he has a very ah largely untrained force, which we'll see like the engagement going forward, they're going to be going toe to toe with French regulars and French Grenadiers.
00:18:56
Speaker
um So I just want to give the listeners some background there that ah this force is like commonly described as a ah an army of farmers, because essentially, that's what it was there was there was no trained British military units in this force.
00:19:10
Speaker
Yes, definitely more on the inexperienced side, these troops. I think most of them are coming from the different New England and New York colonies. um yeah But yes, don't have the the same experience, discipline drills as a regular infantry for either side.
00:19:28
Speaker
So... As both of these forces are heading towards each other, Discao is moving south with half of his force to engage the advancing British.
00:19:39
Speaker
and By September 3rd, Discao, this is when he leaves Ticonderoga with his half of his force, he learns that Fort Edward... whether his information is accurate at the time he receives it or if it quickly becomes outdated.
00:19:54
Speaker
Not exactly sure. But he learns that Fort Edward, the British have just built, is going to be lightly defended because most of William Johnson's men have moved and have reached the southern shore of Lake George and started building a fort which will become Fort William Henry.
00:20:09
Speaker
And as Johnson reaches this lake, It was previously more commonly known as Lac Saint Sacrement with a French name because I think it was Champlain that had ah explored in that area. I'm not sure if he himself gave it that name or if a later person did. I think it might have been somewhat later. but It had a French name.
00:20:29
Speaker
So William Johnson is like, no, we're at war with the French. This from from now on, this is known as Lake George in honor of the king. And it is still called that to this day. So if you didn't know how this war ended, ah that is a spoiler indicator of which way it it might go.
00:20:49
Speaker
Also, you know drop some comments. If you want the French to win, root for the French in the comments. If you want the British to win, i guess you can also comment. But who's going to win this war? Don't look up spoilers. Don't look up anything online or ever or read any book. No, no, no. Don't think about it at all. ah Yes. So, and it seems like ah from what I was able to read that Discal might have better understood the important role of militia and Indians on his advance more so than Braddock had. It seemed like they're
00:21:20
Speaker
There's probably less tensions and less disdain from his part towards his soldiers, especially you can see that with the choice of soldiers that he took down with him. It could have been much more French regular heavy, but he is bringing along lots of militia and Indians because this is a wilderness area and he knows that they are skilled in that.
00:21:44
Speaker
So also present at this battle, commanding the the militia and the Indians is our old friend, Jacques Legardeau de Saint-Pierre. Which if you don't remember, he was the French commander that met with Washington and delivered him the French response to his diplomatic mission in 1753. Super, super experienced.
00:22:05
Speaker
Yeah, super experienced French-Canadian officer, had experience all over the continent, And this was also one of the people that i mentioned in our second episode that is extremely, extremely distantly related to me.
00:22:19
Speaker
I was going to say, this your fourth removed? So we ah we already went over this one, so I won't go on about it. But yes, he's back and he is ready to take part in this battle.
00:22:33
Speaker
So... occurs on September 8th, 1755. And the way the battle will end up playing out, there's three distinct phases that happen. It's kind of neatly separated into three different phases.
00:22:49
Speaker
I would love to talk about the first phase. if you Oh yeah, by all means, go ahead. It's a very interesting. So ah Jackson had talked about the French forces were on there their way to Fort Edwards.
00:23:01
Speaker
And they were actually taking the newly built roads that that ah William Johnson had just constructed. So in a way, William Johnson kind of aided the French advance in that aspect.
00:23:12
Speaker
um But ah upon learning of this approach, William Johnson sent out about a thousand provincials and about 200 Mohawk Indians to reinforce Fort Edward because he knew that he knew the French were on their way.
Battle Analysis: French Ambush
00:23:28
Speaker
on On their way to Fort Edward, and as Jackson had noted, at this area was heavily wilderness, they stumbled into an ambush. And the way this ambush happened, so the French had formed a hook shape along the road that the British were taking to Fort Edward.
00:23:46
Speaker
And this hook shape was intended to draw in as many... British soldiers and Native Americans as it could so that all fire could be concentrated on them at once.
00:23:57
Speaker
It was a great plan, perfectly designed plan, um except at the very beginning of the hook, several Native Americans and provincials began firing on the British before they could fully be enveloped into the ambush.
00:24:14
Speaker
So the ambush gets launched prematurely. It's still devastating on the British, but since they weren't fully encircled and trapped within this hook shape,
00:24:25
Speaker
ah they were allowed to retreat and do a firing retreat. So we're not talking about a route or anything. But I would say this first stage is definitely considered a French victory, even though it could have been much more devastating for the British had it not kind of been blundered by a few of the French soldiers on the first edge of the hook. It was just a very fascinating story.
00:24:49
Speaker
concept so that, you know, they kind of got a little trigger happy. And as soon as they saw, as soon as they saw British soldiers, they fired and the plane kind of went awry, even though, as I mentioned, the British will take heavy losses from this.
00:25:03
Speaker
yeah so Yeah. And this this could have been probably more devastating than Braddock's defeat if that ambush had kicked off just a little bit later. Because, you know, at least with with Braddock's defeat, both forces ended up running into each other at the same time.
00:25:19
Speaker
and it was only due to better maneuvering. But the French and Indians got the upper hand and it turned into very one-sided affair. But in this moment, you have the French and Indians... having been able to know that the enemy force is coming and set up an ambush waiting for it. So it's even a more deadly situation with about almost the same amount of British troops here. There's a a thousand and some natives as well. So, and Braddock had 1300. So it's pretty similar in, in scale and situation, but,
00:25:50
Speaker
the the The planning was more on the French side than in the other battle, but the execution ends up ah letting the the bulk of the British force withdraw and escape the the worst part of of the ambush.
00:26:03
Speaker
Now, the British young do lose... They're two commanders, both Ephraim Williams, he was the commander of the provincials there, and then Hendrik Theanoguin, or also known as Tayanoga.
00:26:17
Speaker
He was the Mohawk leader or the chief, and they both die in this opening stage of the battle. So even though crushing victory... was not obtained for the French.
00:26:29
Speaker
From this stage alone, if they just cut their, you know, if they so end it there and head back up north, it would be written in the history books as French victory. But not going to be the case, as we will see.
00:26:41
Speaker
And then just for casualty numbers in this ambush, I believe the British lost about, in addition to the two commanders, Williams and Hendrick, I believe they lost 200. ah men killed in this ambush. So, I mean, very devastating. If you think like 1,200 men going out, that's like a fifth or a sixth of your force. So were you able to, because I was trying to look at casualty figures as well for the different phases of the battle.
Battle Analysis: French Assault on Camp
00:27:07
Speaker
Were you able to confirm that that was just for the morning ambush and not for the entire day's fighting as a whole? Because I had a little bit of trouble kind of like isolating casualty figures. Yeah.
00:27:18
Speaker
i so I actually listened to that in a video that was 200, and then okay when i asked AI, they also confirmed it was 200. But I need to find an actual source for it in a second.
00:27:30
Speaker
i'm saying I was just bringing that up because i had also read that for the whole day's fighting for the British, there was about 200 killed and 100 wounded.
00:27:41
Speaker
So if it was confirmed that in the morning ambush, oh really the 200 were killed, then that would mean the other parts of the battle, the British, had very, very few casualties. So...
00:27:53
Speaker
I guess listeners, you can take what we're saying with an asterisk because there's a little bit of ambiguity, especially depending on what source you're using. Casualty estimates can vary widely, as we'll see for the French tally of casualties at the end of this battle.
00:28:08
Speaker
But we will carry on. So first stage of the battle, French victory. The ambush, although it is executed too early, is somewhat successful and the British retreat.
00:28:20
Speaker
Now at this point, the Indians, they're you know scalping the the dead and taking some loot. The Canadian militia are somewhat doing the same.
00:28:31
Speaker
They're kind of satisfied, especially the Indians. you know They fought for the French as they said they would. They've seen the French's enemy be driven off the field. they don't theyre you know they're They're quite satisfied. They want to return home with their what they have won.
00:28:47
Speaker
However, at Disco, He wants to press forward. So now instead of going towards ah his original target of Fort Edward, I believe most of the British of Ephraim Williams' contingent, they're retreating back where they came from to the the future site of Fort William Henry at the southern end of Lake George.
00:29:08
Speaker
deco he's just like It's a small military camp. um Yes, it's not a fort yet. It is like some logs and some wagons and that is the defenses. So the British are retreating in that direction. Discow wants to press the momentum and attack now where Johnson's main force is. He knows that Johnson has more troops than him, but he thinks with the...
00:29:32
Speaker
recent victory in that morning. And then with the momentum on his side and the, you know, the British retreating, they can press their advantage and win a battle against a numerically superior foe.
00:29:44
Speaker
And also, you know, these were just provincial soldiers, much more like militia, not as well trained. So, Discao is pretty confident and he's trying to push his Canadian militia and his Indians to press on to attack.
00:29:58
Speaker
However, Jacques Legardeur, he had died in that opening engagement, and he was a beloved leader of the militia and of the Indians. So his death is a blow to their confidence. Indians also want to leave because, you know, they've done what they came for, and most of them will end up leaving.
00:30:15
Speaker
So Discau will advance towards William Johnson's force, but he's just going to have his Grenadiers and most of the Canadian militia, but most of the Indians are not going to join him.
00:30:28
Speaker
They don't want to attack another force of that size. They don't want to run into cannon. they're They're leaving. So now Discau has a much smaller force for the second stage of this fight.
00:30:42
Speaker
So they arrive, they pursue the British, they arrive at the future fort. Well, yeah, and just a a quick note on that. William Johnson, when he, ah but well, I guess when all the troops in his camp ah saw that like the smoke and they heard gunshots came closer and closer to the camp as the British did a firing retreat from the ambush.
00:31:02
Speaker
Johnson ordered all the boats to be drawn up from the water um and all the wagons overturned and he kind of formed an encircled camp of of like I guess impromptu trench works, so to speak. So um it it does turn into a decently fortified position from which the British are fighting.
00:31:21
Speaker
And they do have at least like four cannon at least, and they're able to get those set up in time for the French arrival, which is also going to play a big role in their favor as well.
00:31:32
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, just like you said, yeah, the the quick British preparations to at least get some kind of defensive works is going to swing the tide in their favor.
00:31:43
Speaker
Because now they're defending position against a numerically inferior foe, which is almost always going to be an easier thing to do than the other way around, than attacking a numerically superior foe in a defended position.
00:31:56
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So the French, led by the grenadiers in the center, and then the militia more on the wings, taking shots as they can, fighting in that wilderness, the Indian style, tree to tree, stump to stump, cover to cover.
00:32:10
Speaker
But the grenadiers are going to advance on Johnson's forces, and several times they're going to be beat back. The cannons are firing, the provincials are proving their worth in perhaps a surprising manner. They are maintaining their discipline under attack from professional troops.
00:32:29
Speaker
William Johnson is going to take a slight wound during this battle, and then his second-in-command, Major General Phineas Lyman, will take control. I think for most of the rest of the battle, he'll be in charge.
00:32:41
Speaker
But what William Johnson set up and started, he is going to handle well and command ah the troops and repel several French assaults. And then Diskao is going to be wounded and shot several times, in fact, during the battle.
00:32:58
Speaker
He's still defiant. he's He kind of waves off some of his comrades who are trying to like get him out of there and retreat. you know this point, he's just thinking, oh, I've thrown in my lot to the attack. So now, you know, if I die on this battlefield, oh well.
00:33:13
Speaker
Yeah. But the ah Canadian militia are starting to retreat. The regular French soldiers have been beaten back from the walls of, well, not really walls, from the defensive lines, from their advances towards the wagons and logs and cannon.
00:33:30
Speaker
They're beaten back several times and taking heavy casualties. Discau is down. So then the French will end up retreating from the field. Deescal, I would say, commits one of like the number one blunders that you'll see become more common in the Civil War and going forward past the Age of Muskets. But sort of or I would say full frontal advances and attacks versus fortified positions generally do not work.
00:33:56
Speaker
And the way Deescal structured this attack was he had ordered, as Jackson mentioned, all the Grenadiers march basically in column formation towards the the front of... um I want to say a fort, but it's not fort, of William Johnson's camp. Yes, his camp, I will say. His camp, yeah.
00:34:14
Speaker
And I think maybe part of that, too, was that you know these troops were grenadiers. And grenadiers are essentially heavy infantry. They're used to fighting in formation. And I'm sure that's how they are comfortable fighting. And he puts a small contingent on each flank, firing into the fort from fortified positions. And some of these are natives and some of them were provincials. But um as we've seen in earlier battles, that tends to be the more effective ah type of fighting rather than ah line battles anyways. And so it's just kind of it's kind of interesting.
00:34:44
Speaker
I think and we might see this later in the war, too, um how full or frontal attacks typically don't work, especially when you're attacking a fortified position. ah But it was kind to a point where the Grenadiers were almost in a way kind of like a turkey shoot for the British. They were able to focus all their cannons and musket fire i the the main force of elite troops in the middle and just kind of ignore the shots coming from the woodland area. So it it was just an interesting strategy, I would say. wouldn't say it was a winning one. And I think if if he had focused more troops on each flank, I know, get into what ifs here. I think if they would have focused more on the woodland warfare, we might have seen a different outcome, maybe just through attrition as well.
00:35:27
Speaker
Yeah, like perhaps. Now Johnson had a lot more people and supplies than Washington did in 1754 at Fort Necessity. But we saw like and in the Battle of Fort Necessity, the French and Indians didn't have any artillery or anything. They were just able to fire into that fort and the surround the troops surrounding it for hours and hours and hours. And like you said, attrition ended up winning them the day.
00:35:51
Speaker
Now D-Scout doesn't have any cannon, which could also be a knock against his strategy trying to attack forts without any cannon. um and Of course, maybe he probably wasn't ready for the speed with which William Johnson was able to throw up some kind of defensive works.
00:36:06
Speaker
But yes, like he said, I think his his tactic is pretty traditional for field warfare, like having your heavy troops in the middle and then your irregulars, your militia and your Indians on the sides.
00:36:18
Speaker
But yeah, when you're fighting against an entrenched position, it's going to be rough. Yeah. there're It's going to be very unlikely
Final Phase and Aftermath
00:36:28
Speaker
that you will succeed. And as we see here, he did not succeed in his attack.
00:36:32
Speaker
that is so This is the second stage of the battle. So he went from the morning ambush to the pursuit and then attacking Johnson's camp. The French withdraw, and now the British will claim this stage of the fight.
00:36:44
Speaker
There's one more kind of smaller section to the battle, and that is, as the French are retreating, Colonel Joseph Blanchard of Fort Edward As the battle has been developing this day, he's going to go out with just 120 provincials after hearing all the shots and smoke from the ah action that was just happening.
00:37:05
Speaker
He's going to run into some of the retreating Canadians and Indians and get the drop on them. pouring fire into them as they are retreating, surprising them.
00:37:16
Speaker
And i think sometime this part is called like the battle bloody pond or something. Oh yes. I was going to bring that up. Yeah. exactly like ah So yeah, I believe about, I think it was around two or 300 French or Canadian provincials were killed in this sort of ambush around Lake George.
00:37:38
Speaker
And there's this other body of water, um that today is known as Bloody Pond. And the reason it's called that, and i think it's like just a tiny little ah body water right off of Lake George. i think it was like a swampy area that they were yeah surprised at.
00:37:54
Speaker
Yeah, this is directly south of Lake George. I'm just looking at at it right now on the map. Yeah, there's like a very small body of water. Historical plaque for it. But anyway, so the reason it's called that is because after this...
00:38:06
Speaker
small ambush uh i believe blanchard had his men rolled the bodies into the water um as like just the way to dispose of them quickly and because of the amount of bodies they rolled in the water turned blood red and say that way for a while so uh today even to this day it's known as bloody pond it's kind of a spooky Yes, very grim.
00:38:28
Speaker
yeah Very grim. So that wraps up the three stages of the fight. So we have the French and Indians winning the first stage. If they withdraw there, the day goes to them. But through pressing on and some strategic blunders and not having his full force nor heavy artillery, the French, Discao and the French are defeated.
00:38:51
Speaker
Discao ends up being captured during that second stage of the fight. So that is a big loss for the French and ah and the British will get some extra extra kills on some of the retreaters in the pursuit.
00:39:06
Speaker
Now, after the battle, both sides do claim victory. you know, for the French, William Johnson's advance was halted. You know, he stops and starts building Fort William Henry after that. He, because of that action, he is going to delay any plans of attacking Crown Point and Fort Saint-Frédéric.
00:39:25
Speaker
So, uh... You know, that French installation was safe for another year. The British advance, the ambitious advance was halted. But the French also lost two very valuable officers. Discau, now captured.
00:39:38
Speaker
And then Jacques Legardeur, who had so much experience and was beloved by the militia and Indians. He is also killed and they do not quite dislodge the the British troops. They halt the advance, but they can't send them back the other way.
00:39:53
Speaker
So this will end up being known very quickly and in all the history books as a British victory. And I would certainly agree with that. I think losing two of your most experienced commanders is is a loss enough, as well as having to vacate the field of battle and being the side to retreat. Yeah.
00:40:15
Speaker
The amount of elite troops that were killed on the French side as well, I think is a costly blow for the the French army on the continent. Yeah, I want to talk about casualty figures in a little bit. Well, right after this, as for the British side, one of the aftermath is that William Johnson will become Sir William Johnson by the British government.
00:40:35
Speaker
And this is can be hailed for the British as a great victory. And it's going to be a big proving moment for saying, hey, this was a force of all provincial infantry. you know essentially just militia, and they they held they held firm, they defended their area, and they sent the French packing.
00:40:52
Speaker
So that is more of the the after effects on the British side. But yes, they do have to halt the rest of their their planned attacks further up the the system of lakes and rivers.
Casualty Analysis and Strategic Reflections
00:41:04
Speaker
So for casualties, this i found a wide range from different sources. So I had seen some where it was like about the the British lost around 200 and 100 wounded and the French lost around the same.
00:41:18
Speaker
And then I've also seen some go all the way up to where the the British figures have been pretty steady, but the French might have up to like 600 killed. It seems like the numbers by consensus may have been pretty equal or maybe just slightly higher on the French side.
00:41:35
Speaker
But one of the the key factors of those ah those casualty figures is that a good chunk of the French casualties were their grenadiers. Those professional soldiers, I think about a third of them had died.
00:41:49
Speaker
that's about 60 to 80 Grenadiers. And New France is not going to get a lot of professional soldiers from France for the rest of this war. Really, it's just that read those reinforcements in 1755 and then a couple...
00:42:03
Speaker
more arrivals of reinforcements in the next year or two. And that's pretty much all they're going to get. So every professional soldier that France loses is a ah bigger blow than the equivalent on the British side.
00:42:18
Speaker
Yeah, i um I completely agree that the casualty figures are all over the place. Because as we've talked about before, i saw when I was just researching, you know I found anywhere from like 200 to 300 British were killed in the initial ambush. But as you had just talked about Jackson, you know that figure is also ah also given for the entire day's battle. So ah you know it's like these these casualty figures, we can never really truly rely on them. And it's usually the answer somewhere in the middle between the low and high end estimate.
00:42:48
Speaker
And same with the French side. i i read that around two or three hundred of them were rolled into the bloody pond, but that number could be closer to a hundred if we say only four, three or four hundred were killed in the day.
00:43:01
Speaker
um So take those numbers worth ah worth a grain of salt. But generally, as Jackson said, the casualties were, I think we could estimate as being pretty equal on both sides.
00:43:12
Speaker
Yeah. If you don't have like official like roll calls and counts before and after, it's very hard to know. Just like we saw when we did the battle for necessity, George Washington, like a firsthand experience of his firsthand experience in the battle.
00:43:27
Speaker
He was like, what is he said? I think we killed like 200 of them or something or 300 or something like that. But the real, or at least the the French reportings of the casualties were like 20 or less than it was less than that. I think they're just under 20.
00:43:42
Speaker
We see this in modern warfare too, where each side is going to skew casualty figures to make their side look better. So I mean, even, even the firsthand accounts too, you can't really rely on them. yeah Unfortunately, the New York times was not a thing at this point.
00:43:55
Speaker
So I, we don't have a neutral source to go off of, but yeah. So I would say casualty figures don't quote us on it, but we do try to get it from a variety of different sources to give you ah a range.
00:44:09
Speaker
Yep. So that wraps up the conflict in this area. The only thing left to talk about for the main campaigning season in 1755 is William Shirley's advance towards Fort Niagara.
00:44:24
Speaker
Now, you'll probably notice once we finish this episode and upload this, we're probably right near the end of this episode because that does not materialize this year for the British. So William Shirley is marching with his forces west from Albany across the the Mohawk River and the Great Carrying Place Portage to Lake Oneida and then up to Fort Oswego on Lake Ontario.
00:44:49
Speaker
And from there, he is supposed to attack Fort Niagara. But I believe a key part of that plan was counting on Braddock to have succeeded in Fort Duquesne and then working his way up to join him on the attack on Fort Niagara.
00:45:03
Speaker
And once he learns that, that will not at all happen. And as he's concerned that French forces from Fort Frontenac, especially on the northeast, the opening of Lake Ontario, that they might come and attack Oswego.
00:45:18
Speaker
He ends up just kind of cutting his advance there and saying, you know what, we're going to hold up. We are going to garrison here. And it's way too risky to march or sail out to Fort Niagara and have super stretched supply lines.
00:45:33
Speaker
and not ah half of the army that we were expecting to join us and help us out. So William Shirley ends up halting his advance at Oswego. And that brings to an end the four-pronged assault on New France by the British. So we saw failure in the Ohio country.
00:45:56
Speaker
No action, you know, halting slash failure at the Fort Niagara front. front Victory, but they weren't able to go as far as they had planned in upstate New York and Vermont.
00:46:11
Speaker
And then victory with pretty relatively little bloodshed in Acadia. so you know, I guess it's like technically one out of four objectives were seized, but...
00:46:24
Speaker
There was only one really one catastrophic defeat. And I think that I would say overall, and um you might disagree with me, Jackson, I would say the plan was probably a failure.
00:46:37
Speaker
ah yeah I think the overarching goal of the plan was to knock the French out the war completely. So ah that's why it was like kind of an overwhelming force thing. If we take these four main fortified positions, then the French will have...
00:46:50
Speaker
nothing left to do but concede on the continent and that did obviously did not happen so i think the overarching objective failed as we've mentioned yes succeeded and will have lasting effects and um the plan itself wasn't a bad plan um i just think it uh you know with the limitations of the time having such a coordinated effort on four fronts just proved to be very challenging and uh yes Yep, exactly.
Preview of Future Topics and Conclusion
00:47:17
Speaker
I think we brought this quote up before, i think, two episodes ago, but Newcastle, the kind of like leader of the British government at this time, he writes to either a friend or a co-worker after having drawn up this plan and set it into motion that I fear we have either done too little or too much, you know? Yeah.
00:47:39
Speaker
They've stirred the pot, they've started war again with no declaration of war. Take a drink. um But they haven't sent the overwhelming force that could have actually knocked out New France new france all in one blow. So they're in this weird middle ground where war is here and it's not looking like it'll be over quickly.
00:48:05
Speaker
But in one effect of this, um, over urgent failures, we'll see more of a rise of William Pitt in the future who, uh, make a pretty big name for himself and come into more prominence on the, on the crown's planning side of, of these offensives. So, yes, the British government and leadership will get shaken up a few times before they really find their rhythm. But, uh,
00:48:29
Speaker
Yeah. So that is where things are left off here. think in our next episode, i want to go over some of the frontier raids that the Indians allied to the French and the French commit across the Pennsylvania and Virginia frontiers. Cause really 1755, the end of the year, and then 1756, the frontier is going to be on fire for the British.
00:48:55
Speaker
And that is worth discussing a little bit, highlighting a few different raids and what it was like to live on the frontier and or have the awful experience of being in some of these raids.
00:49:10
Speaker
And then after that, we'll probably be ready to move into 1756, I think. And we'll have plenty to talk about there. And a declaration of war. And finally, we'll get a declaration of war in 1756. So that part of the drinking game can end. You can finally stop drinking.
00:49:28
Speaker
Yes. ah But yeah, we thank you for listening. Remember, we've got a Facebook page where occasionally I'll post a really great homemade meme so you can follow that.
00:49:41
Speaker
Feel free to to yeah to share some comments on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. We'd love to hear any corrections. If we get something way wrong, please let us know.
00:49:51
Speaker
If you're enjoying it, also let us know. And yeah, we hope to keep getting these episodes out pretty regularly. Maybe a yeah probably twice a month or so. But yeah, we're grateful for you listening.
00:50:04
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Second everything Jackson said. And um I, on the comments, I think we can reply to comments on Spotify. I can't do it. think so. i So if you have any questions about the show, feel free drop us a note on Spotify, or if you do an Apple podcast, we can just discuss during the show.
00:50:20
Speaker
So ah yeah, we thank you guys all for listening and sticking with us for the last three months. And we're looking forward to continuing this on a lot longer. So sounds good. All right. Thanks for listening to Tales from the French and Indian War. We will catch you next time.
00:50:35
Speaker
Bye. See you.