Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Tales from the French and Indian War. I am your host, Jackson. And I am your co-host, Matt. Matt, we got to see each other recently, which is pretty rare these days. It's not right. It is It is rare. I think we keep moving further away from each other through no no intentional intentional action, but if the distance does keep growing. Hopefully it is set now and it won't be changing anytime soon. But yeah it was nice to have you guys up here in northern Michigan where we have recently moved.
Speaker: Yeah, it was a fun trip. I was telling Matt I went up to Mackinac Island afterwards and there's a few forts from way back in the day. Unfortunately for this podcast, I didn't know before I went, but there are three forts, two on the island and then one in Mackinac City. The French and Indian era fort is in Mackinac city. And we just did not have time to swing by and check it out. I only saw the one on the Island, which has more, uh, it were of 1812 history.
Speaker: so yes Yeah, we'll have to come up again to see Fort Mishal and Mackinac. Yeah, I guess just another reason to come back. Now, we're learning that traveling with a baby is a little bit different than traveling without one. So you have to make some concessions here and there. so Of course.
Speaker: Oh, good. But Matt, today we are talking about the battle on snowshoes. What? I thought we already talked about this.
Speaker: We did, but not this battle on snowshoes. Yes, this is the second battle on snowshoes. This, I think, is the most famous of the three. we covered the first one, the one in the winter of 1757 in, like, January.
Speaker: This one will be taking place, I think it is in March 17... it March Yes, March yes that's right i had that in my notes and then I deleted that line as I was reorganizing things and then I realized I no longer had the date of the of the battle anymore. It sounds a bit, in in all fairness, it sounds a bit late for a battle on snowshoes, but this is in the upper parts of New York. so I think that our listeners there would agree that you could expect snow to still be on the ground in early March.
Speaker: Even, i mean, even in these days, ah when I was in college, one of the, one of the spring breaks, I went up to Montreal, which of course is the opposite direction. Most college students go in spring break, but that was in the middle of March and yes, it was still snowing up there in Montreal. So If we think a few hundred years back when the winters were even worse, no, no surprise that we're still in very wintry weather in March of 1758. That's right. We're in 1758 now.
Speaker: We, uh, we're getting, we're getting through the years. We've, uh, I think we've had quite a few episodes in 1757 and now we're moving 1758 when the war really heats up and To show how it heats up, we're going to cover a battle on snowshoes. Yes, to show how it heats up, it's a battle in freezing winter weather again. Exactly. Yeah, we got a lot cool stuff coming up.
Speaker: I'm hoping we'll get a few big episodes out here in August. Some of the large battles of 1758. But right now, another small one, but another just interesting, fascinating little affair. So we'll jump right into it.
Speaker: So we have talked before in the podcast how outside of the large battles with thousands of soldiers in total, there's constant, constant small scale, small scale warfare, irregular warfare, la petite guerre, shock and terror raids, basically constantly across all fronts, pretty much.
Speaker: We've covered several of these actions, like Fort Bull, the first battle on snowshoes, the raid in Kataning, etc., etc. Today, these it's it's no different.
Speaker: The raids are continuing, as even in the the dreadful conditions of winter. Yeah, we've covered, I think, three... Yeah, three cold weather daring raids already. Fort Bull first on snowshoes and then Rigaud's first raid against Fort William Henry. That was also in March in the winter. So, yeah, by now you listeners know that...
Speaker: Though the big armies might rest for the winter, the the small forces of maybe 50, 100, 200, up to like, well, up to a few hundred soldiers can still be on the move and trying to harass, attack, gain intel, and otherwise secure advantages even in the depths of winter.
Speaker: So we are back with our friend Robert Rogers. If you haven't listened to our episode on the first Battle of Snowshoes, I would recommend listening to that because we dive into his background, where he came from, where the the Ranger companies he yeah he developed, where where that got its origin. So if you haven't listened to those, I'd recommend doing that now because we're going to be skipping some of the background.
Speaker: On that episode, I think we even covered the Roberts Rules of Ranging, which are still used by the U.S. Army Rangers and i in a modified form, in a modern version. But there's a lot of fascinating history there. So, yeah, go listen to that episode. And if you're researching this...
Speaker: Be careful when you're researching because both the 1757 and 1758 battle involved almost the exact same parties, at least on the British side. You know, this is still Robert.
Speaker: There are since Rangers, unfortunately, I think. i don't know if his unit was just one of the only ones to have snowshoes. So then every every battle that they were in was called the Battle of Snowshoes. But. it's it's not all the time that you would get three. I think he was he's in the third one.
Speaker: I believe so. So I think, I feel like because he became such a notable or colorful figure from this era of history, any he winter battle he was associated and he just kind of gets gets lumped into the battle on snowshoes. Obviously, this is the only time soldiers used snowshoes and battled, but I think it just kind of got wrapped up in his his legend, his fame.
Speaker: He's the snowshoes guy. Yeah, that's Roger's the snowshoes guy Yeah, so brief bit of background as to what sets up this this encounter on the ice.
Speaker: One of the most crucial things for both sides at this time, of course, and with any army in any era, is intel. Intelligence on enemy strength, enemy movement, enemy preparations. Especially since this is March, the campaigning season is going to start in just a couple months. And the preparations for those offensive moves start earlier because you've got to get all the food, you've got to get the troops, you've got to get the equipment.
Speaker: So what the British are doing and the French, of course, vice versa, constantly sending out patrols, scouting parties, raids to gauge the strength of the enemy.
Speaker: They need to know what's coming. You know, are the French going to be planning anything from Fort Carillon? Are they amassing troops? Are they amassing supplies for an upcoming attack?
Speaker: There's no way to know at this time unless you send some people out to go scope out the area. Maybe take some prisoners to interrogate or just see it for themselves. So the British are sending out these missions just before Rogers goes out.
Speaker: Israel Putnam's, or Putnam, I'm not sure if it's Putnam or Putnam. He goes on to fame in the American War of Independence, but he's active in the French and Indian War here as a leader of Connecticut Rangers. So by this point, the British are really developing these light infantry, these Ranger units by this point in the war. But he had just recently returned from his own scouting expedition near Fort Carillon, but the French were on alert. they i don't i can't recall if there was a a battle between or skirmish.
Speaker: But either way, the French had caught on to that the British were sending in forces to scout out their areas. And in his journal, Rogers indicates that the French probably will know that Rogers and his group of Rangers are now going to be coming up to continue. scouting uh there's i think some some worry or some ambivalence about like well you know you you don't want to go into enemy territory when they are expecting you of course but it was that yeah actually to add on to that jackson i was uh reading in robert's journal so like one in uh the putnam's expedition with his rangers i believe all of them came back but one oh
Speaker: uh i think it was i'm trying john robbins was his name um that he was missing in action captured or deserted they they were not sure um but basically in roger's journal he writes that um this gentleman about the 28th of february ordered out a scout under the direction of one putnam captain of a company of one of the connecticut provincial regiments giving out public publicly at the same time that upon Putnam's return, I should be sent to the French forts with a strong party of 400 Rangers. This was not known only to all the officers, but soldiers also at Fort Edward before Putnam's departure.
Speaker: And I think before they even set out, as you mentioned there, the original task force was supposed to be about 400 men. But when he gets set off, I believe he only has about, yeah, about 180 total Rangers and a few regulars that loud. And before he got replaced, and we'll talk more about that in a coming episode, he had sent some regulars up to be trained in the ranging ways, so to speak. So, but he's only got about 180 and he was hoping for had mentioned.
Speaker: at four hundred that you had mentioned And they weren't another thing. They weren't well supplied either. Some of the sleds that were bringing supplies to Fort Edward were ambushed by the French on their way, specifically for the Rangers expedition. So that led another concern for for Rogers and his operational security. He thought it was already kind of conceived to the French that they would be coming.
Speaker: Yeah, so we got ah now a couple factors working against this expedition before they even step out of Fort Edward. That is not good. And remember, of course, Fort William Henry, which was the most advanced British post in this eastern upstate New York, that is still smoking ruins from Montcalm's battle. And if you haven't watched or listened to our episode about the Battle of Fort William Henry,
Speaker: you You'll want to go check that out. But so now Fort Edward is now the extreme post of British power in the area. So that's where they're setting out from. So the snow at this point is recorded. It may have been up to four feet deep. I think he mentions that in his journal, if I remember reading. I did this research a couple weeks ago, so some of my memory is fading as I'm looking at my notes here.
Speaker: I had forefoot as well, so our notes align. Very good. Now we know, of course, people love to exaggerate in their journals. you know, you can see our episode on German flats about the French commander saying they like killed 5,000 cattle or whatever it was in the radio.
Speaker: So people love to exaggerate, but regardless, very cold, lots of snow. So of course they're equipped with snowshoes. They head out on March 10th along the east side of Lake George.
Speaker: And then at some point they make their way west of the lake. So they'll be crossing over the frozen lake right around Sabbath day point where a severe loss for a British expeditionary force happened in the previous year, which we have covered.
Speaker: So they cross the lake around that point and now it's another on the west side of Lake George and they're mostly marching through the night in order to maintain secrecy or at least what what amount of secrecy they still can maintain now that there's been a ah couple operational leaks.
Speaker: So you can imagine the scene, you know, how intense it might be sneaking across the frozen lake, you know, that would probably the most exposed they would have been at that point, you know no cover on the lake.
Speaker: If there was a full moon or something, it would be, it would feel very exposed, um, Robert, he mentions halting and crouching low at one point when a scout thinks he sees a fire ahead on the other side of a lake.
Speaker: So they slowly work up to it and it's just like a trick of the light on a branch or something. And then imagine the ah sigh of relief as ah they can continue working across that wide open lake.
Speaker: I was reading in Robert's journal, he he notes that they saw a dog run across the lake at some point. And I think they halted for quite a while and sent scouting parties because there was a dog, because dogs were associated with Indian parties. So if there was a dog, there was likely at least an Indian scouting party. But then they like followed this dog, his scouting party from you know the ranger scouting party. followed this dog and they determined it was like a stray from a recent Indian raid that had occurred around that area. So, but yeah, I agree. He was being extremely cautious, assuming that his, you know, the secrecy of his operation was already given up. He wasn't, he was very cautious to not be walking into an ambush, which we'll, we'll get to that later.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. He's, ah I believe the first battle on snowshoes, I'm trying to remember the casualties amount. That one was determined like ah it wasn't clear which side won. Both sides took some casualties.
Speaker: I know Roger's unit lost some men, a couple officers, and they had to abandon some men. But in general, I think that one's either considered ah a minor French victory or just kind of a wash.
Speaker: But so this what Rogers knows how deadly ah warfare on the frontier can be. Very much so. He's got plenty of experience. He's trying to be extra cautious, especially since in the last battle he was caught completely unawares as he was making his way back from a raid.
Speaker: So yes, very tense, slow progress, lots of scouting. By March 13th, around 2 p.m. in the afternoon, one of his advance guards spots some enemies, which looks to be ah about 100 people, mostly Indians, led by the French officer Durante.
Speaker: Now, unfortunately for the French officers in this battle, i actually did not get much. Well, I did not get any. I did not look up their background. So I cannot tell you all, dear listeners, or i'm yeah if I'm related to any of them or whatnot.
Speaker: I hadn't seen their name yet before in the war. So this could just be like the only time that they're one of the main characters we can we can we can say. If they come up again, though, I'll be sure to do some extra background information since there'll be some recurring figures. But...
Speaker: Rogers's advance guard spots about 100 French and Indians, mostly Indians led by French officers, and they were searching for the ranger's trail. So they did, by the accounts that I read, they did they were aware that the British were operating around Fort Carrion, somewhere around Lake George, and they were you know on their own patrol trying to pick up the trail.
Speaker: The rangers, at this point, they're still undetected. They set down their packs and they start to prepare an ambush. So on their east side, there is a mountain, I think, like one of the last hills before hitting Lake George.
Speaker: And then on the the west side, there's some kind of stream or waterway. The French and the Indians are traveling up the stream because it's I believe it's frozen over on that. So they're traveling up the ice and Rogers' troops line up behind a bank somewhere not far from this stream.
Speaker: And when they're ready, they open fire. Seems to be strong effect. Rogers estimates that they killed 40 or so in the opening volley, but as we'll see at the post-battle casualty reports, that is certainly a overestimation as we see often in these battles. you know We've talked about it plenty of times.
Speaker: both ah Both sides always think they killed more or they want to report that they killed more so that they look better. But either way, definitely a surprise attack. The French and Indians are caught unaware and they have been, they've fallen into an ambush from Rogers and his Rangers.
Speaker: So Durante's group, as they are they're caught by surprise, they start to withdraw and, I can't tell. it seems it may have been a disordered retreat or maybe a it was, a i guess, I think I was looking at the British source. So it seemed like, you know, they're fleeing the field, but it could have also been knowledge that there was another French and Indian force because of course Durante would have known.
Speaker: that But he falls back. The British, who think that is the entire French force, the entire patrol, they want to pursue this group and not let them escape. Some of them do not take the time to reload their guns after this opening volley or two.
Speaker: some So they start to charge forward. Some of them are er stopping to scalp fallen Indians, but a lot of them have not reloaded yet. So they're pursuing these these retreating French and Indians.
Speaker: Roger, I wanted to add, Roger is doubles down on the 40 number he he mentions in his journal that his party scalped 40 Indians in that that pursual. Oh, OK. So he he's claiming the physical evidence of 40, 40 scalps. Correct. Yes.
Speaker: Yeah. So as Rogers' rangers pursue the fleeing enemies, they they don't know that Durante's men is just an advance guard of their own and that there's 200 additional men led by Lange behind him, mostly Canadians and other Indians.
Speaker: They are not far behind, so Durante is heading back towards friendly forces, as they both set out from Fort Carillon together or or at similar times. So Lange, he has the advantage of knowing.
Speaker: He gets his own element of surprise here. So as Durante's men are retreating back, you know they inform him, and they can set up their own ambush. So they get ready as the ragers close in chasing Durante's men.
Speaker: Then they pop out and start ah firing against the Rangers who have now been taken by surprise. So i don't ah I don't know if Durante, if it was just like a legitimate, oh crap, we need to, we got to flee for our lives and let's head towards our friends. Or if it was one of those strategic moves, like a fake retreat or like trying to draw them, like a very tactical retreat, trying to draw enemies towards them.
Speaker: your friends, or maybe just a mixture of both. It does seem like they were caught by surprise at at the very least. You know, you hear about like the Mongols using that fake retreat strategy to ah annihilate their enemies who get too excited and start chasing them down thinking they've won the day. And then whoop there's a lot more of them.
Speaker: Yeah. From the few sources i read it it sounded like lane lane he when he heard the firing occurred then he like deployed his men into an ambush okay yeah so in that account it sounds like almost like you know it it was a planned attack that went awry that they just happened to retreat back to their men rather than a plant thing that makes sense especially because yeah credit to the french yeah the musket shots would have been heard for a few miles so yeah they wouldn't even have to have reached lang before he knows oh something's up let's get ready that's right
Speaker: Okay, so yes, now it's the ranger's turn to be in the hot seat. In his journal, Rogers records they retreat to safe safer ground higher up on the mountain. So I believe they would move further east to get up on that mountain. But the cost, he records, is about 50 of his men have already fallen at this point. So that's some some high casualties and a few minutes of fighting from Lange's 200 Canadians and Indians firing down on them.
Speaker: So up on this mountain, the Rangers rally, start returning fire for about an hour and a half. The Rangers hang on to their position, trying to keep the French and Indians at bay from getting too close because yeah now they're they're certainly outnumbered, you know, and the and the opening engagement engagement.
Speaker: It was about 180 to 100 in the favor of British. Now, you know, with an extra 200 French and Indians, now the Rangers, especially after casualties, are quite quite overpowered here, outnumbered.
Speaker: Eventually... a group of Indians start to work their way up the mountain on the rangers right flank. So I believe that would be just about north of their positions on the mountain. so they're trying to get up on the high ground and then fire down and into the rangers from above.
Speaker: Casualties are starting to pile up for the British. I've got here that 100 privates and eight officers were killed at this point of the fight.
Speaker: And so that totals to about a man a minute almost for like an hour and a half of fighting a at this point. which is And then it's also important to note there's only 14 officers total in Roucher's company. So most of the leadership had been cut down. good not Yeah, that's a good point. And we know that in this irregular warfare where honor was not so much the the ruling principle, officers were explicitly targeted if they could be identified. Now, of course, this is different than like Braddock's defeat, where officers are very clearly marked. They're often on horseback. They're, you know, shouting and commanding.
Speaker: It's going to be harder to pick out a ranger officer. But at this, I mean, regardless, just so many people are dying over half of them. or half of the officers have been included in those killed. So yeah, that's a 50% of your leadership being cut off is a, is a big blow.
Speaker: And well, over half of your, your grunts also being dead is it's looking very, very bad for Rogers. It could be at this point, it's looking like it could be an annihilation of his entire force.
Speaker: I say to Roger's credit, he is a very stalwart man. He he held the center with around 30 which is a pretty small group at that point of the whole force, and held the center for considerably long amount of time. I think he started with around... uh around 50 men and then they were cut down to around 20 as we get to like the next actions in the sequence but um yeah he he held the line with his men instead of you know just ordering them from behind so and that also might be why the officers in this sort of a company would have been cut down sooner they were more involved in fighting than you know regular officers might have been yeah yeah certainly
Speaker: So as these casualties start to mount, Rogers at last is forced to retreat in order to to avoid total destruction of all of his men. you know At some point, whether the casualties have become too high or whether a French and Indian maneuver is looking to you know completely destroy them,
Speaker: I don't know the exact cutoff point where Rogers thinks, no, we should keep firing back. We should keep holding this position. And when he starts to think, no, we just got to leave, get out of here. It's been the cost has been way, way too great.
Speaker: But at some point he retreats. And of course, with a lot of retreats, it gets a little chaotic. There's one officer Phillips. I just have his last name, but he is a little bit separated with his group from Rogers's group on this mountainside.
Speaker: So he and his men become surrounded at this very last portion of the battle. And he ends up, I think there might have been some back and forth communication with the French and Indians, but he ends up surrendering his soldiers. I don't, I think there was only like 10 or 20 with him, but he surrenders. He's hoping for good treatment.
Speaker: However, when the French and Indians discover a scalp, a recent scalp, in one of his men's coat pockets, they end up executing them all.
Speaker: However, Phillips, I don't know exactly how, but he- What a crazy war crime that hadn't been committed by either party. this point Well, you know, and in the middle of of a battle, that everyone's blood is running very, very hot. And if they see something sort like that, it'll it'll just set you off. And yeah, execution of prisoners of war, unfortunately, is not ah not rare in this war or this period on the frontier. Nope.
Speaker: So, yeah, the ironically, one of the rangers' biggest ah mistakes in this battle, you know, breaking line, charging ah the fleeing enemies, and also stopping to scalp on the way, that comes back directly to haunt Phillips' group here as they're surrendering, and one of those scalps is discovered.
Speaker: Philip somehow, he escapes he like in his account of what happened. I think I read that somewhere. maybe it was reported in Roger's journal at some point. But he manages to cut his way free, I think, while their fate is still being deliberated or the executions are just starting. and He said, that man has a scalp on him. Yeah, he pushed his man forward and said, he has a scalp. But he just turned it around.
Speaker: No, that did not happen. Or maybe maybe, I don't know. maybe it tip So that's all I have for the battle before we look at the casualties and aftermath. do you have anything else you want to talk about the very, the last stage of the battle?
Speaker: ah Yeah. Well, actually, Jackson, have a quiz for you. Which rule of ranging did Roberts follow in his, in his, or Robert. Yeah. Roberts. No Rogers. Yeah. Which one did Robert Rogers follow of his rules of ranging? You say that 10 times fast.
Speaker: Robert Rogers rule of ranging. Oh gosh. I gave you a clue there if you if you picked up on it. Hmm.
Speaker: Oh, gosh, I'm going to let me look real quickly through my notes. see If I have anything that might give it away. i do i never i never read his rules, so I don't have any. ah Well, i'll I'll just tell you. yeah Retreat instead of fight to the death. yeah you're you're not You're not wrong. Rule number 10. Yeah, rule number 10 of his rules of ranging. If the enemy is so superior that you are in danger of being surrounded by them, let the whole body disperse and everyone take a different route to the place of rendezvous appointed for that evening.
Speaker: which was every morning be altered and fixed for that evening's ambush or is it for that evening ensuring no ambush. Um, yeah. So what he did basically is he ordered a retreat, but instead of organized or ordering an organized retreat, as you, we would typically see recommended, uh, instead of a route, he orders like kind of a semi route where he says every minute for himself, but we're all going to gather back where we left our sleds. Um,
Speaker: the night before so yeah they all take their individual routes and that's uh and i know we haven't really gotten to the retreat yet but that's uh he gives that order which follows directly from his rules of ranging so i thought that was and it seem fall perhaps that's some character growth from the first battle on snowshoes where i know you had mentioned or We had read somewhere that he was returning on the same path he had taken to the raid, which was a no-no in his own rules of ranging. so Correct. Perhaps he is refining and becoming more diligent to his rules now.
Speaker: yeah um But yeah, so do I can get into the final parts of the battle. So like I said, they they all disperse, all the Rangers disperse into their own past to rendezvous rendezvous at a certain point.
Speaker: In that period, Rogers throws off his jacket and we don't know whether that was intentional or not. We don't know if it was to you know maybe... blend in a bit better not really sure what his jacket would have looked like at this time hopefully maybe our listeners could look that up but if it was ah a more of a vibrant color maybe he ditched that to blend in more but regardless he ditches his jacket and supposedly the the like local legend is that he slid down i think it's like a 400 foot um I can find it in my notes yeah 400 foot rock wall um
Speaker: off of bald mountain or just whatever occurred at to the frozen surface of lake george um and i think it today that like uh that wall is called rogers slide um so if you live in the area let me know Yeah, so let me, yeah, if you live in the area, let us know if you see it or if there's anything there to, you know commemorate that, but that's the local legend, so he slid down a 400-foot rock face to Lake George to escape, but the fact that he ditched his coat, it had his officer's commission in it, which was signed by William Shirley, so it's kind of interesting that he carried that with him. I don't know if they would have had to, but he carried his commission that was signed by shirley and the french found that afterwards and they like briefly believed that rogers had been killed in the battle um and i i was reading that an iroquois warrior who i couldn't find the name of boasted to governor vodray later that he had killed rogers himself um so yeah the french did think he was dead for for a while um just because he'd left his jacket behind but he Rogers did not die in this and he will go on to find another battle on snowshoes. You know, I'm just spitballing here, but I'm wondering if the reason he would carry the officer's commission is because, especially at this time, way before, you know, photo ID or anything. that would be a pretty handy way to prove that you were who you said you were if you know if rogers had to interact with other british officers or you know any other british personnel on the frontier if he had to show up late and ask for supplies somewhere i'm sure he could flash that and then get what he needed that would that would be my idea
Speaker: but yeah that ah That sounds right. That makes sense. yeah So yeah, his retreat is pretty legendary. If it actually occurred that way, I don't know. Rogers doesn't actually write in his journal about how he escaped.
Speaker: So we don't we don't know from his account. You think he might write in his journal that he slid down a 400-foot rock wall, but maybe you know left it up the history to decide that.
Speaker: Well, in the absence of any firm proof, we will slightly believe the more fun version of the tale. We will definitely assume that it happened. Yeah, so to get into the aftermath, the casualties, there were several groups of natives participating in this.
Speaker: The French force was mostly Indian from both both forces, I believe. But there was Kahnawake Mohawks. These are the Mohawks that lived up in Canada and were French friendly. nipiing and or Nipissing and then Abenaki Indians made up the force.
Speaker: French wounded two cadets, one Canadian, 18 Iroquois, and one Abenaki. And then French killed one Nipissing and three Iroquois.
Speaker: And remember Rogers assumed they had killed 150 enemies. In reality, it was four dead and about 25 or 23 wounded, 22 wounded actually. So big difference there. British on the other side, though, i have, and maybe you have the same thing, Matt, 144 killed and then seven captured.
Speaker: Actually, I had 124 killed and seven captured, but pretty close. So if it's 144 and then seven captured, that is 85% of his force killed or captured in one engagement, which is a crushing blow. If it's the 120-something, then that would be probably close to like 75% or something.
Speaker: But regardless, I mean, if we think about Braddock's defeat, how crushing that was, I mean, he still had like a... It was his advance, his flying column that got, you know, almost destroyed. But there's still survivors from that. And then he still had like the rear guard and everything. not an 85% kill ratio. So is
Speaker: k ratio ah so that this is a Huge, huge blow to the these ranger companies that went on to this this mission. And he's going to have to yeah he's gonna have to spend the next year rebuilding these ranger companies and seeking to restore his reputation because he's very lucky to escape with his life and a lot of good men died that day from the British side. So there's a lot of work to be done for these British rangers to prove themselves and to get a... ah
Speaker: get a more morale encouraging result from another engagement. We will see him come back later on in this war though. He will come back in at least one, maybe even two more episodes as we go along though.
Speaker: For sure. Yes. A couple more points on Rogers. So I know you mentioned how he wrote in his journal about 40 French were killed in the initial engagement. He later wrote that, well, not later. This still would have been the same journal that he reported back with. But he estimated that 40 French Indians were killed in the initial ambush and then another 60 were killed. in subsequent action. And then he also estimated that the enemy wounded were no less than a hundred.
Speaker: he's, doubleling by his accounts, they'd have a hundred killed, a hundred wounded, which is like, I mean, as we talked about, that's almost 170 or 80 off. And, you know, we can put an asterisk next to all of these numbers. Cause I think even the more accepted numbers, There's still going to be a little bit of unknown, a little bit of, you know, trusting one source over another.
Speaker: so yeah, for sure. Maybe we won't know exactly, but it certainly seems that French and Indian casualties were were far, far lighter than what Rogers had thought. I will say the Rogers account of the action, as we talked about, is obviously more in his favor. um And he actually did get promoted, I think, in April of 1758 to Major of the Rangers. So perhaps his so his reputation did not suffer as much as I would have expected. Maybe it was just like, wow, you survived? That's amazing. Rather than you lost 80% of your men? That's terrible. Yeah.
Speaker: I think it was more of, yeah, I think, well, yeah, I think, one, the British had confidence in him that he survived and was able to escape because I think his journal points it more or paints it more as like oh, you know, we really, you know, we got the, we got the drop on them and then like circumstances changed and, you know, we were just grateful to escape with our lives essentially. Um, so that it was like a vote of confidence in him that he was promoted to that level. But then as you said, he, like his business after this point was reconstructing both one, his reputation and two, the, the shattered force of the Rangers, which were like almost completely dismantled by this battle. So, um,
Speaker: Yeah, it's a it's not ah not a great thing for Rogers, except for the fact that he yeah he personally might have come out a little bit on top, but his Rangers certainly did not.
Speaker: Yeah, another bloody, bloody skirmish in the snow of the wilderness of North America in the French and Indian War. I don't have anything else to to add here. do you have any final notes?
Speaker: No, that's that's all I had. Yeah, it this is a fun one to read about. It like went back, forth, back, forth. and Yeah, the two ambushes. Ambush leading to an ambush. You don't see that too often.
Speaker: I will say one thing, we don't really hear too much about how the snowshoes really impacted the battle here much outside the fact that the Rangers were able to navigate four feet of snow quite easily. It seemed less a distinguishing feature. Like in the first battle on snowshoes, some of the French soldiers' lack of snowshoes was notable because it was noted in the the French accounts of like, oh, we couldn't pursue the enemies effectively because some of our men were floundering in the snow. So I think it was more distinguishing a feature in that one. I think in this one, it's just like this was a winter battle with a lot of snow on the ground.
Speaker: That's usually, that's pretty unlikely that, you know, most battles took place in the summer. So boom, battle on snowshoes part two, even though it it wasn't, they didn't make a distinguishing factor in the accounts of the battle.
Speaker: And I wonder, too, because I know we talked about this in the last battle that ah in 1757 snowshoes were not a, ah I think, an automatic item that the the French militia or natives or anything would have been given on any sort of expeditions. I wonder, and I guess listeners, maybe if you want to look this up and tell us, I wonder if the French and their Indian allies were wearing snowshoes as well.
Speaker: in this battle. I truly don't know, but it would make sense if they did. would bet. Given the bet speed of maneuvering. Although all I know is that, yeah, the first battle Snowshoes, at least a sizable chunk of the force didn't have it. We did see, though, in if you remember when we looked through all the the winter equipment on Rigode's raid, Snowshoes was um part of the equipment listed, given out to like every soldier.
Speaker: So I would imagine whether it was because they just had a shortage of supply in the first battle or whether it was because they didn't incorporate it regularly and then they started to after that, I would bet that... ah the the French would have snowshoes by this point and it would be regularly adapted.
Speaker: Uh, or if it was a supply shortage, they just made sure they had more supply at Fort caviar.
Speaker: Yeah. Uh, that definitely makes sense. Yeah. Well, thanks Jackson for, uh, guiding us through another battle of snowshoes. And hopefully i think we're going to probably talk about the last one too, since we've mentioned it so many times to listeners, I, I believe, is that in, uh, is it 1759 or is that might be i don't i don't think i know like anything about that one so i can't even give like a little uh teaser or uh you know a little look ahead as to how that one goes so we will all discover it together as uh podcast hosts and listeners how fun of course of course
Speaker: All right. Well, I am hearing my baby waking up and I'm going to rock her back to sleep. So we'll close here. ah and thank you all for listening. Any comments or suggestions or anything like that, feel free to write in Spotify comments or on Facebook.
Speaker: We'd be happy to hear from you all. We'll be back soon with some more bombastic French and Indian war action. All right. See you later. Bye.
