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Episode 16 - The Siege & Massacre of Fort William Henry
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August, 1757. French and Indian forces at their full might come crashing down on Fort William Henry. A decisive and impressive French victory suddenly becomes marred by a post-siege catastrophe. Learn about the tragic fate of Fort William Henry and the chaotic nature of the French-native coalition forces.
Intro & Outro music - "Drums and Guns" by Village Volunteers Fife & Drum Corps
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Transcript
Introduction to French and Indian War Battles
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome back to Tales from the French and Indian War. I am your host, Jackson. And I am your co-host, Matt. And today we are back to covering large-scale battles of the
Siege of Fort William Henry Overview
00:00:25
Speaker
French and Indian War. i feel like it's been a couple months since we had anything of great scale.
00:00:30
Speaker
i think really not since we talked about the Battle Fort Oswego couple months ago have we seen action on the scale as that of which we'll be talking about today. Isn't that right, Matt?
00:00:42
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah, we've been engaged in a lot of tomfoolery since then. yes Going around to different unexplored areas of the war. And it's been fun, but I am glad to get back into the the major battles and, you know, where there's a little bit more source material to go off of.
00:01:00
Speaker
Yeah, unlike the last couple episodes we've done, there's almost no shortage of source material for this one, especially in secondhand material, ah secondary sources. So lot to pull from, and that was it was fun to dive in and research for this.
00:01:17
Speaker
So as you might expect from the title and what we've been talking about the last couple of weeks, today we are covering the actual siege of Fort William Henry.
00:01:28
Speaker
So if you had tuned in couple episodes ago, we talked about the quote unquote siege of Fort William Henry, a military action, but it didn't end up coming to a head, coming to a climax um with the the brother of Governor Vaudrey raiding and harassing the garrison in March of 1757.
00:01:52
Speaker
So today we'll be covering the actual battle that everyone thinks of when they hear about this that takes place in August of 1757. So just a few months after that.
Strategic Priorities of 1757
00:02:03
Speaker
1757. It's interesting year. There's lot of strategic priorities that are shifting in this year. Some areas of the war that we've seen a lot of action are pretty quiet, like the Ohio country.
00:02:18
Speaker
There's, i mean, of course, constant Indian raids still going on along the British frontier, but The British are not making any large scale attempts or really any substantial attempt of any kind to attack the French possessions in the Ohio country near modern day Pittsburgh.
00:02:35
Speaker
So that area is pretty quiet after in the first few years of the war we saw most of the action was taking place there. The British... arep The Loudoun, the commander of the British forces in North America, he is planning on an expedition to go after the French fortress of Louisbourg, which is close to Acadia. I think it's Cape Breton Island. Maybe it's called Cape Breton Island now. Yeah, I think so.
French and Native American Strategies
00:03:03
Speaker
cape bre sounds yeah familiar i think in french it was cape breton but uh uh we call it now cape breton because the english took over spoiler um but the the french are still firmly installed there in 1757 it's one of the key fortresses allowing them to keep contesting the gulf of saint lawrence and getting supplies and ships over to quebec from that way so loud and wants to conquer that So a lot of the British war effort, the offensive war effort, is going to be yeah gathering for that campaign. And I think we'll we'll probably want to cover that ah before we get into 1758, even though it has a very underwhelming result, we could say.
00:03:45
Speaker
But that's the British priority here at this summer of 1757. For the French, last year they you know last year they had crushed Oswego and removed that thorn in their side. And now governor vaudrail of French Canada has ordered Montcalm and the French forces to go down to Fort William Henry and destroy it. So obviously they had wanted to do that in March.
00:04:09
Speaker
Vaudreuil's brother didn't have either the guts or the right strategy to seize the fort, but now they're sending everybody, the the largest army we've seen from the French side up to this point in the war.
00:04:23
Speaker
So this is also coming at a time where Fort William Henry is more isolated than ever. There's constant French raids coming down to this point. The Rangers are also trying to do their counter raids. And there's you know tons and tons small-scale skirmish action. But at this most extreme point on the New York frontier, they are getting more and more isolated. They know there's going to be another attack coming, most likely. The French aren't going to give up.
00:04:50
Speaker
ah The British realize that. So at also at this point, the French are enjoying the highest level of Native American support that they have gotten in the war so far.
00:05:01
Speaker
So, Matt, in the Battle of the Monongahela, the French had a decent amount of Native American support, but how many total natives did they have in that battle?
00:05:16
Speaker
Uh, that's a good question. I would say it's probably, probably more than half of their force was, was native at that time. Yeah. So I'm just pulling up my notes from that episode again.
00:05:27
Speaker
And yeah, that was a native majority force. So I always like to say that it was, uh, an Indian and French victory rather than a French and Indian victory. Cause there was about six to 700 natives. Well, there was only about like two to 300, uh, French,
00:05:45
Speaker
So that was already one of the largest like gatherings of Indians fighting in these European wars, especially from different nations. I don't remember how many were at the Battle of Monongahela, but several different Indian nations had gathered for that.
00:06:00
Speaker
However, what we're going to see here in the summer of 1757, a much higher quantity of natives are gathering, fighting for the French cause. You know, they have been witnessing and hearing about multiple French victories, one after another. The Ohio country, French control, Oswego destroyed. So they are coming out for the campaigning season 1757.
00:06:24
Speaker
ready to fight with the for the French and take part in some of these great victories that they are just getting back to back and then you know't get there their spoils and glory and loot along the way.
00:06:37
Speaker
So, you know, France is winning. They want to join the winning side, as one would. This native intensive strategy is very important for governor Vaudreuil.
00:06:48
Speaker
He is viewing native support and constant harassing raids as key to the, to new France's strategy. While the European French like Montcalm and Bougainville, Lévis, those, they are viewing working with the natives as just a necessary evil. You know, they, if it was their choice, they wouldn't want anything to do with them, but they understand that in America, things are a little different and, uh,
00:07:12
Speaker
They do serve as valuable scouts and guides and some provide some good irregular warfare, so they're begrudgingly fighting alongside them. So in this summer, there are 33 different Indian nations that are represented in at least some amount of warriors gathering at Fort Carillon in what is now Ticonderoga, New York. jackson not i not to interject but just to show our listeners how smart i am i i found a lot of the nations that these are from if you don't mind i can tell them yes yeah that's from my research what i found um i'm gonna i am going to butcher probably all of these names but um there was around 1800 native americans in this forest that we'll talk about today that's over double the battle of monongahela
00:08:04
Speaker
Yes. And about 820 of them were, I don't know how to say this, domicilated? Domicilated? Oh, so in French, Christianized. Yes, in French is domicilié. Ah, okay. And yeah, the translation is kind of like domesticated or, you know, I don't, that out term wouldn't be correct.
00:08:26
Speaker
yeah to use but the idea is yes they're more living in a a European way or they've accepted Roman Catholicism as their faith now but yes go on okay so you had like about half the forests were Christian natives that were yeah had grown more accustomed to European culture than about the other half which I have on here they were called Piedenhot is that close of all? Piedenhot Oh, hey, Don. Okay. This is very hard. I don't know how you speak French so easily. um
00:09:01
Speaker
Yeah, about 986 were that. Yes. And do you know that refers to? Is it upper country? Yeah, literally it means like upper country. Okay.
00:09:11
Speaker
And that's referring to upper as in like up the waterways. So like around the Great Lakes, you know Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Ontario, like that area.
00:09:22
Speaker
Okay. So... to go back to what i was talking about so about half were christianized those christianized natives came from the abenaki tribe the iroquois and these are mostly around uh saint louis uh saint francis so up in uh french canada uh then you have nipissings algonkins
00:09:49
Speaker
Maybe i shouldn't ah I shouldn't have read these. It's okay. I've got... Oudatois? Oudatois? Satois? Oudatois is the French way pronouncing Ottawa.
00:10:02
Speaker
Ah, okay. That's why... You see, you know, we were talking about how many sources we can get for this episode, and I got that from a primary source. So that would make sense. Very good. Yeah, you'll find the spelling and nomenclature for some of these tribes will vary, especially if the European source will try to translate the name of the tribe, like, you know, the fox tribe.
00:10:24
Speaker
or if they're going to actually just try to like how the name the name sounds in the native language, if they just try to like write it out how it sounds. So you'll find a ah few different ways some of these tribes can be referred to.
00:10:36
Speaker
Uh, yeah. And then you had some smaller groups like the Hurons and the uh, the Amalasites. males Yeah. I think we call Malasites in English. Um, and then the, upper country Indians are the great lakes region. Indians are a lot easier. Um, you have Ottawa Ojibwe, which is Chippewa, Potawatomi, Winnebago, uh, the S pronounce it souk or saw. I actually don't know how that one's pronounced. I would say sock, but so I'm not sure about that one. yeah fox iowa uh minima me that sounds like a nominee the nominee yeah it's like uh like i'm finding nemo the ah and and and ni namin knee yeah listeners can just uh watch us struggle with some of these names yeah and i about um we mean no disrespect jackson i just not are not uh fluent in the language so no um but yeah so that's uh that's
00:11:35
Speaker
but good portion of the tribes that I found. But since there were 30, I'm sure there are probably many more that I am not listing. So, yeah. And some of them too, are they're like different branches or different kind of like clans of the same, what like, you know, you could say Iroquois, but you know, there's some groups of Iroquois here, some groups there, you know, it's a so you might find within some of these nations we've listed, there were several different groups that took part.
00:12:04
Speaker
One fun fact, i don't know if you saw this in the source you were looking at, but some of the nations such as the Iowa, which if the the native Iowa lived anywhere near the modern state of Iowa, they came a long, long way to participate in this campaign. I wondered that too. I didn't look into them, but yeah, that's a far trip.
00:12:24
Speaker
But some of those nations like the Iowa, no one in the French command even had an interpreter to speak their language. like That's how far away from the French zone of influence some of these natives were coming and flocking to the sides of the French.
00:12:38
Speaker
ah That's going to be a little bit of a foreshadowing for how things can get out of control later on in the episode. But... um this is a indian heavy force there's about uh 6 000 french and french canadians assembled and about 1800 indians so with this large gathering of indians from all over we're seeing a reflection of that and how it impacts the french army one example on july 10th there was a chanting of a te deum the catholic hymn or or song of praise and thanksgiving for victories or good fortune.
00:13:16
Speaker
But it was in the Iroquois language. And then there were some French officers that with all this mixing between the different groups, they were formally adopted into Iroquois tribes and given Indian names.
00:13:28
Speaker
In a similar way that William Johnson on the British side was adopted into the the Iroquois tribe. But Bougainville, for example, he gets the Indian name and Garoniatsigua or something of that nature.
00:13:41
Speaker
I've got a really interesting tidbit from the book, Montcommon Wolf. just about a paragraph that I'd like to read. looking course. Some of these, the clash or the melding between these two cultures in a very interesting way.
00:13:54
Speaker
So it's referring to Montcalm and his staff, like Bougainville and Rigaud. They were going to kind of collect some of these or invite some of the Indians along the St. Lawrence River to to join them. These would be some of the domicile, like the more European living.
00:14:15
Speaker
um Indians or the ones living in mission settlements with the Jesuits. So it says, um when they landed, the Indians came down to the shore, their priest at their head and greeted the general with a volley of musketry, then received him after dark in their grand council lodge where the circle of wild and ah where the circle of wild and savage visages, half seen in the dim light of a few candles, suggested to Bougainville a midnight conclave of wizards.
00:14:43
Speaker
He acted vicariously the chief part in the ceremony. Quote, I sang the war song in the name of Monsieur de Montcalm and was much applauded. It was nothing but these words. Let us trample the English under our feet, chanted over and over again in cadence with the movements of the savages. End quote.
00:15:01
Speaker
Then came the war feast, against which occasion Montcalm had caused three oxen to be roasted. On the next day, the party went to Kaffnawaga, or Sos Saint-Louis, where the ceremony was repeated, and Bougainville, who again sang the war song in the name of his commander, was recruited by adoption into the clan of the Turtle.
00:15:20
Speaker
three other Three more oxen were solemnly devoured, and with one voice, the warriors took up the hatchet. That's an interesting, you can really just imagine that moment of like this European born and bred classically educated Frenchman just kind of like dancing around the circle, trying to take part in this cultural aspect, this invitation to warfare, just saying like, we will trample the English under our feet over and over.
00:15:46
Speaker
Makes for an interesting image. That'd be a good movie. Could be a very interesting, very dramatic or intense scene. But anyway, yes. So we got some interesting mixing between the two forces, each side influencing each other.
00:16:02
Speaker
By mid-July, army is heading south. This is most likely the largest multi-nation in Indian gathering ever to that point in history, most likely, from what I could tell.
00:16:14
Speaker
Yeah, I would say so. I mean, yeah. Yeah, I think from some of the light research I did on this point, the previous largest multi-nation gathering may have been the Battle of Mongahela.
00:16:26
Speaker
And then before that, this wouldn't be multi-nation, but like the the most Indian warriors gathered could have been under the Iroquois when they were at their peak in power in the 1600s during some of the
French Siege Tactics and Advancements
00:16:37
Speaker
Beaver Wars.
00:16:38
Speaker
But yeah, this is definitely one of the most significant gatherings of Indians in North America ever since the first European contact. As the the forces are moving south along Lake George, some are going by bateau and then some are walking alongside because they just simply do not have enough bateau to carry the entire force and all the artillery and supplies.
00:17:03
Speaker
George Monroe, who is the commander at Fort William Henry, he sends out a detachment of 350 New Jersey provincials commanded by John Parker to move up Lake George and do kind of like reconnaissance in force, you know.
00:17:18
Speaker
They're kind of blind at this point because there's so many harassing raids around the fort. He wants to figure out where the French are, what they're up to. So he's sending about 300 men up north along the lake in some bateau to discover where the enemy is, where are the French exactly.
00:17:36
Speaker
On July 21st, the three advance bateaux. They are surprised and captured without a shot by a group of French and Indians under Corbière and our old friend Charles-Michel de Langlade.
00:17:51
Speaker
He's come up a few times. but This is taking place at Sabbath Day Point or just near it. So the French from these captives that the French take, they learn that all the rest of the the New Jersey provincials are on their way and they're planning on landing at Sabbath Day Point, which is on the west side of Lake George.
00:18:10
Speaker
If you're looking at a map, there's a part where Lake George is heading like to the northeast, and then it kind of straightens out more more or less going straight north. So Sabbath Day Point is at that kind of angle where it starts to go from northeast to just north, and it's a a fairly narrow part of the lake. So it's a good spot for an ambush.
00:18:31
Speaker
So they set up, they split up their forces along the lake. They've got muskets at the point, you know, some riflemen. Not rifles exactly, but on the opposite side of the lake, behind like a bluff of land, they've got 50 canoes hiding and ready to just burst out along the water. That's a lot canoes. Yes, and you know that they know how to move quickly in them.
00:18:55
Speaker
yes On July 23rd, the rest of Parker's New Jersey force starts cruising right along through Sabbath Day Point and fall right into the trap.
00:19:07
Speaker
So the first boats, they're actually captured completely silently and without a shot, just like the the original advanced guard. The rest, they suddenly realize, ah wait, something's not right here.
00:19:21
Speaker
But then the musket fire strikes them. The canoes are launched. They are surrounded. it quickly becomes a bloodbath chaos and they're all stuck in boats. You know, they're not even on dry ground where they could run or form a line or, you know, they're in a very vulnerable position.
00:19:38
Speaker
But ah some of the New Jersey provincials are shot. Some are fall into the water and drown. Some are kind of skewered by Indians as they're in the water.
00:19:51
Speaker
The three of them are eaten. Oh. And then, yeah about only 100 of the 350 escape. The prisoners are enslaved and carried off by Indians. Some are later ransomed by Montcalm and sent up to Montreal. So first taste of some intense violence in this campaign this season. But it's I think there was only maybe like one to three casualties on the French side. And then obviously you could see 250 killed or captured.
00:20:20
Speaker
on the British side. So very devastating ambush here. By August 3rd, the French have made their way down the rest of Lake George, and they are pretty much right at the doorstep of Fort William Henry.
00:20:35
Speaker
So there's 250 French boats carrying a good chunk of of soldiers and equipment, along with 150 Indian canoes. so This is quite ah quite a little armada here. Jackson, not to cut you off, but yeah I'm just curious because I do not know much about the Sabbath day or the Sabbath point battle, but did Monroe find out about this? I mean, besides the fact that his scouting party had went missing, ah was there any like ah signal or sign that hey you know something's really wrong out there that would have you know prompted the british to beefing up their garrison so he did yeah he did know the french were somewhere and they were there was a lot of activity they they knew they knew that much uh and there were some survivors that escaped so i assume they would have went straight back to fort william henry and informed him
00:21:28
Speaker
um Because I think he just, yeah, he just knew there was a large French force, but he didn't know exactly where they were. Were there a few days away? Were they weeks away? had they left at all? You know, so he, I think he was just trying to figure out, get a, get a lay of the land.
00:21:41
Speaker
And he had hoped, I think by sending 300 troops that there would be some safety in numbers, but that ended up not being the case at all. Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:52
Speaker
Yes, as the French move down, there's about 2,000 walking alongside the lake under Lévis and the rest in boats. And the siege is quickly becomes underway. So the French, they set up their artillery batteries and their main positions on the west side of the lake.
00:22:13
Speaker
they want to quickly do that the time-tested Vauban siege tactics where they're building trenches they're setting up artillery batteries that are facing at different angles and then slowly surrounding the fort so Montcalm and I think Boulemac they are in charge of the main force and the artillery and then they send Lévis, the knight, along with, I believe he's a French Canadian officer, la Cône, to cut off the road from Fort William Henry to Fort Edward further to the south.
00:22:48
Speaker
So the goal is to surround the fort, cut off communications and then begin a proper traditional siege. what's funny is they probably didn't even need to come off that road to fort edward i don't think reinforcements were ever going to come and we can talk about that too when we get into it but um the uh commander i think it was a web i think he was the overall commander yeah proves to be very useless in this entire affair which we will see but uh
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think, though, and we can talk about it more, but I do believe the French, by cutting off that road between Fort William Henry and Fort Edward, they do intercept some pleas for help from Monroe. Yeah, we might as well go unanswered.
00:23:34
Speaker
just We could probably get into that right about now. or So like the siege continues. The French, eventually, once their artillery is all set up, they start unleashing heavy artillery onto the fort.
00:23:45
Speaker
it's not going to be able to take too much more of that. The Indians alongside, they're pretty delighted seeing the big cannons go off. There's one mark, I think in Bougainville's journal where one of the, some of the Indians like either asked to try or were invited to try like aiming and shooting a cannon to which they were delighted.
00:24:04
Speaker
um There's definitely a lot of friction as I was reading through Bougainville's journal at this point, you know, Montcalm in that very rigid European hierarchy.
00:24:14
Speaker
He's trying to give orders to Indians like, Hey, I need you to patrol the road leading to Fort Edward ambush any parties, you know, just kind of do scouting missions and like that.
00:24:25
Speaker
yeah, some of the native i mean their society does not work in that kind of rigid top-down way so some of them are just skirmishing around the fort trying to to get some daring scalp attacks uh so there's already some since there's some continuing friction there in the chain of command but overall the siege proceeds very well and then a letter A messenger ends up getting intercepted, sent from Webb up to the besieged Monroe, but he does not make it through the French lines and deliver the letter. Do you know what was in the letter?
00:25:02
Speaker
I do not. So let me see if I – I wonder if I have – Jax, I did want to – not to back up too far, but on August 3rd when the French initially arrived, didn't it Monroe go to for the Fort William Henry and talk to Monroe and ah demand surrender off the bat?
00:25:24
Speaker
ah Yes, I do believe that took place, I'm remembering my reading correctly, and I think Monroe's response was, we will fight to the end. Yes. I think there was some foreshadowing there where Montcullen was like...
00:25:36
Speaker
but It's best to just surrender nicely. i don't know how well we can restrain our native allies if you have a stubborn defense. Yes, i will. I did want to point and set that out. Yeah. So the the actual quote from my common that is since was perhaps there would not be time.
00:25:56
Speaker
to restrain the cruelties of a mob of Indians of so many different nations. And this we'll we'll see after everything happens this battle. and I don't want to spoil too much, but Mokam alludes to the fact several times in some of his diaries and manuscripts after the battle of, like you know, I did have we i did have natives of 30 different nations. And you like you can tell it that he...
00:26:26
Speaker
knew that was a problem from the beginning and then this when he was offering a surrender like hey i have natives of 30 different nations i can't like i'm not promising i can control them but Yeah, and that's part of the very unique situation the French were in here, where they glad they're glad to accept almost 2,000 extra bodies on the campaign.
00:26:52
Speaker
But yeah, they're they're each there's so many fragmented, different, unique nations that all require a unique diplomacy and unique relations between Montcalm and the chiefs.
00:27:04
Speaker
uh it's kind of like if you're having a party at your house and you invite some friends and then one of your friends goes on and invites a bunch people you have no idea who they are and some of them invite people you really don't know who they are and you have no relationship with them no rapport and it's be very hard if you asked them to do something for them to just be like, well, I don't care who you are, but it's very a unique situation where they're technically all on the same side, but there's so many differing cultural practices, different ways their military affairs are conducted. And Montcalm can, can be pretty honest in saying when he says things or hints, things like that, where he's like, i don't,
00:27:48
Speaker
I really don't think we can control him. He's like, I'm not trying to threaten you, but actually, no, we don't know his exact intonation. But he obviously had experience with this from the Battle of Oswego, where we did see a small scale, or at least smaller scale, end of battle massacre or pillaging that was not the French's intention and got pretty ugly.
00:28:14
Speaker
Yes. um Yeah, it's ah it is funny. And you have to imagine someone like Macomb, who is very much used European warfare in dealing with French regulars and the harsh discipline that they face, similar to how harsh the discipline was for the for British regulars. How big of a difference or change that had to be for him, where he's issuing orders and he's not really being listened to, but Also, at the same time, there's 1800 of them. So it's not like you can enforce like discipline in your army or anything of that nature because you're facing impossible mutiny at that point. So, yeah, it's just it had to be such a like a culture shock for him. and he probably realized like they they won't even listen to me. Like I can't, it had to be so, so weird. And we see in a lot of wars, whenever there's a large alliance of different ethnic groups, different nations, all working together against some common enemies, lot of times they do not operate super efficiently. Like I'm thinking of, you know, it took how many coalitions before Napoleon was defeated? Like all those different European nations banding together, but they're speaking different languages. They have different priorities.
00:29:29
Speaker
they They want to look out for their own nation above all rather than do something that might help the overall cause, but hurt them a little bit more than their allies.
00:29:39
Speaker
In Europe at this point, we're seeing the coalition of nations attacking Prussia, they you know they eventually do not find success and the the coalition collapses eventually. So already, even with just all Europeans together, it's hard for multiple nations to juggle all their priorities and work together. How much more so for these completely different cultures from the European side and then over like thousands of miles of North American Indian tribes like represented all of them to to work together as a efficient machine not going happen i think yeah i think a good way to think about this battle and which might make the outcome make a lot more sense is that it's kind of a two versus one so you have basically two separate armies that are marching on the british fort uh together but under separate command really so yes and that second army is actually like 30 micro armies
00:30:37
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Makes it even harder. Yeah. ah ah One other note, I want to back up just a teeny bit for a quick note before we get into this letter that was intercepted.
00:30:49
Speaker
So I mentioned how some of the French are walking because they didn't they had walked to get to Fort William Henry because they didn't have enough boats. So I think the the French had 250 boats.
00:31:00
Speaker
Do you remember how many boats were burned in the raid against Fort William Henry? Oh no, but I think it was quite a few, wasn't it? Yeah, it was around 300. So if 250 French boats can't even carry their whole force of like 6,000, that shows some perspective on how much damage burning 300 boats can do because 300 boats is goingnna you know he's going to transport 5,000, 6,000 troops.
00:31:27
Speaker
So for all of that to be destroyed in that earlier raid, that is pretty significant. um if the french didn't themselves they didn't get attacked but they still didn't even have enough boats to to move the whole army anyway so the letter as the siege has been going on a couple days i think uh do you have so august 3rd or 4th when the siege officially behead began august 4th august 4th okay yeah So the siege has been going on ah actually just one day, I think, because I'm looking at Bougainville's journal right now on August 5th, and he writes about intercepting this letter. so Yeah, August 4th would have been when the trench works were started.
00:32:08
Speaker
And then I think August 3rd, there was like some, like a few like probing attacks by the the natives on the fort, but nothing really. And then 4th, the French really settled it and started digging the zigzag for the zigzag trenches towards the fort Right.
00:32:23
Speaker
So Bougainville mentions this letter intercepted from General Webb, who was at Fort Edward, that was going to Monroe, who is besieged right now.
00:32:34
Speaker
The summary, I'll just read it here. He informed him that he could not send help until he had been joined by the militia of the colonies, which he had ordered to march at once.
00:32:45
Speaker
um And that a Canadian who was captured on the 4th by one of his parties told him that the French army was 11,000 strong and it had a considerable artillery train and that it has surrounded the fort entirely for a distance of five miles.
00:32:59
Speaker
And he informed him of these details so that if the militia he had sent for arrived too late for him to march to the aid of the fort, the commander might see to obtaining the best terms he could. So this is excellent, excellent news or like a wonderful serendipitous event for the French. They've just started their siege.
00:33:18
Speaker
And what do they, they get very crucial intelligence. They know that the the general Webb, he's basically given permission to Monroe to surrender. He's saying, I'm not going to march until ah the militia from like New England or lower in New York come up and join me.
00:33:37
Speaker
And there's possibly 11,000, a little bit of overestimate, but there's supposed to be 11,000 enemies completely surrounding you with artillery. So maybe just try to get the best terms you can.
00:33:50
Speaker
So when the French know this, they their job is so much easier. They don't have to worry so much anymore about their southern flank where Lévis and Lacorn are set up on that road south to Edward because there's not going to be any forces coming. And then we use this letter in like a parlay mid-siege to speak with Monroe and persuade him to surrender.
00:34:14
Speaker
And that could last until August 9th, I believe, is when Monroe officially surrenders. Were you able to find any familial link between, general Webb and general McClellan?
00:34:29
Speaker
No, didn't look at, didn't look at that angle of the story. That's what I was thinking when I was reading this, i was like, ah, that's like, uh, you know, it's not prudent. I will not send reinforcements. Sorry.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yeah, the host of the key battles of the Civil War podcast said that General moved at like the speed of an iceberg or something. or maybe Lincoln said that. I don't know. I can't remember. It's been a few years. But yes, Webb, indecisive, I suppose. he doesn't He doesn't want to risk Fort Edward II, so he is not coming to aid Monroe.
Surrender and Aftermath of Fort William Henry
00:35:03
Speaker
August 9th, surrender, his agreement is reached. It's very generous to the British side. They're awarded honors of war, unlike the defenders at Oswego.
00:35:16
Speaker
um so they will be conducted to Fort Edward under escort. They have ah to promise not to serve the military in the military for 18 months.
00:35:28
Speaker
And then they also have to promise to like lobby the the leaders of the British colonies to send back all French prisoners taken since the beginning of the conflict. Now, I don't know about you, but I know there was so much of like an honor system in European warfare culture at this point, but...
00:35:49
Speaker
I don't, how on earth could you ever trust or expect these soldiers to be like, no, I, sorry, I promised I wouldn't take up the musket against France for eight, for 17 more months. Sorry. I can't. Oh, the yeah concept of parole. Yeah. It makes no sense, but I mean, you'd have to think it went on for decades. i mean, centuries really. So it must've been honored at least some or just, I, I don't know. I thought the same thing. Like, oh yeah, for 18 months, I'm not going to re-enlist or I'm not going to fight again. Like that just seems crazy.
00:36:23
Speaker
Yeah. Especially if you're like, if, if these are like British regulars that are saying that, like there's no way because there's, they're paid. Yeah. They're paid. And there's only several, there's only like several hundred or thousand of them in the colonies. Like they're not, I just, it just seems absurd to me too. So I completely agree. Yeah.
00:36:43
Speaker
Yeah. I do think at this fort, it might've been all provincials. There was a list in Bougainville's journal after the battle of like all the prisoners they took. Yeah, I think it was think it was all provincial. So at least they had like homes to go to, but. Oh no, actually there were regulars there from the 35th foot and the 60th Royal Americans, but they were like colonial regulars. So they were not,
00:37:09
Speaker
uh from england per se okay because well actually i take that back the 35th foot might have been but the 60th royal americans were like raised in the colonies but still technically regular troops now matt do you know what was missing from these surrender terms um safe passage or well actually well that's it i think he does he does offer them safe passage um I don't know. What what do you think is missing, Jackson? So what is missing is prior deliberation with all of the native allies in France. yes. So Montcalm comes up with these terms and he informs the natives, but it's very much after the fact.
00:37:54
Speaker
Like, here's what we've agreed. Please honor it. And according to some sources, at least, he had some assent. People say, you know, chief saying, yes, we will we will agree. We'll restrain our young men.
00:38:07
Speaker
But I think some of that was just in the like respect to the face, but kind of probably some anger ah behind the scenes where like, how dare he you know create all these capitulation terms without asking us, without working with us. you know We came all this way, some of us from Iowa.
00:38:28
Speaker
And yeah they're just letting all the enemies walk out with their guns, with their possessions. And, you know, 2000. Yeah. What do we get this wooden fort that we're never going come back to? Like, no. And the fort itself is going to be destroyed. So it's like they're like there's some a little bit of like plundering of of the fort that will happen. But um yeah, a lot of these natives are thinking, why did I come all this way? Why did I risk my life? Some of us have died fighting and skirmishing around this fort.
00:39:02
Speaker
and you just kind of blocked us out of the surrender negotiations. Okay. So that's setting up a great misunderstanding. So we could say that, yes.
00:39:15
Speaker
And if you remember the natives, the main some of the main objectives they have for participating in these are scalps, plunder, and prisoners. So scalps to show their bravery in combat, they're the amount of enemies they've defeated, plunder, well, you know useful items, expensive items they can sell for goods that they need, anything valuable, and then prisoners to take back to their tribes,
00:39:40
Speaker
And the best case is to be ransomed away or to be adopted into the families. And the worst case is to be tortured and killed. Oh, now that you bring up scalps, I did want to mention one thing in this episode, which we did not talk about. when We talked about the first battle of Fort William Henry on around St. Patrick's Day. like two episodes ago. And we talked about this offline a bit, which I thought was fascinating. But um in French Canada, there were like pretty available scout bounties and contracts put out for the natives. And I'm not really sure who these like bounties were like sponsored by or who they were paid out by. And you might I don't know if you know that Jackson, but it might've just been the the colonial government. And I think that some of the British colonies had done the same thing at ah certain points too.
00:40:28
Speaker
Okay. So yeah, they were like these scalp bounties. So not only were they collecting scalps for bravery and to show how many enemies they had killed and stuff like that, it was more, they were getting paid for it. But it was to the it was to the extent where natives, and this happened in the St. Patrick's Day raid that we talked about, where the natives on the French side were scalping their own if they died. Because really when you turn in a scalp, you can't really tell whether or not this is a...
00:40:54
Speaker
a friend a you know a foe or a friendly scalp so they like if their brother died beside them they would scalp them uh before coming back so it was to the point where they were like scalps were scalps didn't matter where they came from they were getting them um So it's just it's crazy, you know, like just that that drive. And that's, you know, that was the mindset like I'm coming here to get something. I'm not coming here to take territory. I'm not coming here to, you know, advance France's geopolitical power in the colonies.
00:41:28
Speaker
I'm coming to take in like full stop. You know, it reminds me, there's some kind of quote where it's like, anytime a metric is created, it becomes useless. Or like anytime you get a KPI, it becomes useless. Like ah in sales, for example, I used to work in sales jobs, like on the phone and they would always measure like how many calls you made, how many, how much time were you on the phone?
00:41:55
Speaker
yeah, And it was like very high numbers that you had to get. But what ah ended up happening is a lot of people would just, they would have a few numbers that they would cold call and they knew like no one would ever pick up or like it would put you on like an unending, like answering machine that would count towards your talk time.
00:42:12
Speaker
So like if you needed a couple of extra calls, you know, for the day, you would just call those those numbers. completely pointless you're not going to make a sale from it but the metric had become the king so people find ways to abuse the metrics and it's just kind of funny that hundreds of years ago you know the metric was bring in a scalp get money and so the abuse of that metric becomes well how about we scalp our own people or i had also read sometimes they would cut scalps in half so it's like oh look i got two scalps this was a child yeah
00:42:46
Speaker
yeah so crazy it's human nature doesn't change i suppose no in the afternoon of august 9th that's when the siege has ended the troubles do start to begin so the fort has been emptied by this point or at least mostly emptied and the british have kind of been moved off to their own separate camp and then the next morning they're going to leave once the french escort comes and go down to fort edward
00:43:16
Speaker
ah But while this is this kind of intermediary stage, while the British are leaving, French are installing and taking control of the fort, some plundering does occur. Some Indians, and possibly some French Canadians as well, break into the fort.
00:43:32
Speaker
They're grabbing plunder you know before it's distributed or you know consigned away to the military. There are some wounded British that are still in the fort and they will be killed. there you know Some French soldiers will even die trying to stop the violence, but it eventually calms down, although it's a very, very ominous sign for the future.
00:43:53
Speaker
So it's a very tense night, the August 9th. And then in the morning on August 10th is when Everything kind of goes to crap.
00:44:04
Speaker
ah So from my understanding, there's a few different sources, different perspectives, but from my understanding, there were some threats or rumors going through the British camp.
00:44:15
Speaker
And I mean... possibly very well substantiated that they were going to be attacked during the night or or early in the morning and sure enough when they wake up they do see quite a few armed and angry indians kind of like skulking around the camp threatening making threatening gestures things like that and it's still very early in the morning and the french escort has not yet arrived now there's some uh We'll get into the details a little bit about like the escort and what the French could or could not have done or should or should not have done. But Bougainville's kind of
00:44:52
Speaker
explanation, you know, trying to, it's justification for what happened afterwards. Propaganda. Very possibly. it He was saying that because of this tense situation and the rumors circulating, the British got up and started leaving, going south to Fort Edward earlier than the agreed upon time. And so the escort had not yet arrived there.
00:45:17
Speaker
That could very well just be after the fact justification for the the readers in Europe. We will let the the listener decide. But regardless, the British get up and start moving.
00:45:28
Speaker
And then some Indians start attacking the rear of this British column that is up and moving. There seems to be some kind of like a war cry, may have been a prearranged signal.
00:45:39
Speaker
And suddenly dozens or even hundreds of Indians start rushing upon the British column and attacking the exposed British soldiers. They do have their guns, but they have no ammo, like no bullets in the guns as part of the agreement.
00:45:54
Speaker
And it quickly becomes absolute chaos. You know, this isn't a this isn't a battle situation where you have... officers cool and collected giving orders to their different platoons and squads this is just a column of people very nervous already exhausted and then they're suddenly attacked when they had believed that they would have protection yeah and and just a quick note this isn't just soldiers obviously in this column this is soldiers women and children ah So it's the entire inhabitants of the fort, you know, the soldiers and their families. And so just like, that's a good tough context point.
00:46:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. That's important to bring up. Yeah. Cause every fort, every large military expedition or installation is going to have civilian workers there. You know, laundry has to be done. Cooking has to be done and all sorts of like logistics and transportation has to be done. So yes, they're, There are plenty of civilians here. Women and children are absolutely among those killed here or captured.
00:46:57
Speaker
And it does appear to, according to some testimonies, that there were some French Canadians or French who either took part or at least kind of like tacitly encouraged or turned a blind eye for a few minutes while this was happening. So,
00:47:14
Speaker
you got to think there's there's no love between these two forces so while you have some more noble-minded french who once this starts happening they're going to try to you know pry british prisoners away from being dragged off into the woods and trying to put a halt to this but there's going to be others who are going to be happy to see this happening to their hated foes where war has been raging between them for a few years now and before that 10 years before before that 50 years before so there's does seem to be at least some actors on the french side who are complicit in massacre i read um some primary sources i don't know where this source was from but it said that uh like when the attack started the french guards largely stood by or told the british to in quotes take to the woods and shift for yourselves and then saw there was a joseph fry who was a british survivor wrote in a journal later that this word scene of blood and slaughter obliged our officers to apply to the french guard for protection which they refused so yeah you just even more evidence first hand account yeah turning the turning the other cheek so to speak
00:48:26
Speaker
Yeah. um Once Montcalm finds out he is horrified, you know, this is the second time this has happened under his command, and he had given his honor and his word to the British that they would be protected and gave them, you know, the surrender terms, and now they are violated.
00:48:45
Speaker
um There's a little wide range of estimates as far as how many people were killed during this attack before things calmed back down. They vary from 200 at the low end to 1,500 at the very high end.
00:48:58
Speaker
The author of La Guerre de Satan, the book I have here, which I think is very, very well-researched one, the author states 185 were killed outright, but then between and captured and taken away.
00:49:14
Speaker
Yep. Those were the same numbers I came to. I did find that the 1500 numbers were from very early British accounts of it. So that doesn't surprise me too much. Yeah. Makes sense to, of exaggerate the impact or when people still haven't been counted or, or or anything like that. Show the atrocity of the enemy in the, in the, the most, the highest possible range. The total losses were about 10% of the entire like surrendering force. If you count both killed
00:49:47
Speaker
uh captive so it's kind of interesting they they act they literally decimated them i guess ah oh yeah oh yeah they're the ones killed you're saying like 185 200 because there's about a little over 2 000 defenders i think in the fort yeah so if you take like 185 killed plus like okay yeah yeah three 500 decimated yeah um So Montcalm is overwhelmed. honor his honours tarnished.
00:50:19
Speaker
Vaudreuil, when he finds out the governor general knew France, he's horrified. They actually spent a lot of August of later in the month trying to recover some of these British prisoners, ransom them back with payments of money or alcohol.
00:50:33
Speaker
They get about 200 the captured back this way. Um, so it's a very, for a campaign that went very smoothly in a siege that went very smoothly and efficiently, this is a, for the French, it is a horrible, uh, ending for them.
00:50:53
Speaker
Jackson, uh, public relations damage will go on a long way. Did you mention how Maikhan got like involved himself in the fray? I think I had heard that he was like physically in the fray and like pulling polling British who were being carried away. like I don't know if that was his his staff writing the accounts and trying to hype their leader up. Oh no, he was in there. He was in there he was he pulling people. off maybe protecting them himself oh he could have been the sources i found said the same thing like he he got his officers and they ran in and they were to the point of like grabbing the natives by the arms and holding them back and they said he recovered like hundreds of british that could have been killed or wounded yeah so if you think 300 to 500 captured or taken away that's probably not including those who were immediately recovered so there could have been at the beginning like 800 maybe
00:51:44
Speaker
I don't know, seven, eight hundred captured and then in the fray, like a couple hundred perhaps were immediately rescued. But yeah, that's... It could have been close to half. So really, he's a hero. Yeah, I mean, he's at least at least there's that for his record, yeah his his historical retrospective. It seems to be that he was immediately taking an active part in putting the chaos to an end.
00:52:11
Speaker
So yeah it happened under his watch, but at least he tried to play a ah real role in ending it. Oh, and then i have to sorry I have to mention too what we talked about right before we started recording about how the natives when they when this broke out and they were like kind of... i Actually, this probably would have happened a little bit before, but when the natives plundered the fort, they were digging up ah shallow graves in the fort of like you know freshly dead redcoats who they had thought had died in the battle or in the siege. It turned out there was actually a lot of smallpox that had broke out in
00:52:50
Speaker
uh, Fort William Henry. And when these bodies were dug up by the natives for scalps and for their coats and stuff like that, it caused an unintended spread of smallpox in the native communities. And as Jackson and I were talking before this episode, uh, it turns out in the following years, the native showings at a lot of these, uh, events slowly like dip down because of smallpox epidemics in the community. So is this where it started? Possibly. Um, But yeah, just kind of an interesting tidbit. They went a little too far and kind of caused an outbreak.
00:53:23
Speaker
Yeah, they're from this battle, or at least some historians think from this battle directly, a lot of these, some of these very distant Indian nations who had probably been less exposed to smallpox, uh, in the, in recent times, they, some of their warriors brought it back or some of the prisoners that they took brought it back and that will ravage some of those communities in the pay. Don't know.
00:53:46
Speaker
And that yes, will absolutely lead to fewer natives coming to France's side in the next year, which will be a big blow. So Matt, what happens
Impact and Legacy of the Siege
00:53:57
Speaker
now? the The French army has demolished or is demolishing Fort William Henry.
00:54:02
Speaker
The chaos of the massacre has calmed down. Where do they go from here? and Do they march on forchet Fort Edward? Uh, no, they do not. Do you know any of the reasoning for why they do not?
00:54:16
Speaker
Um, I, guess I believe so around this time it would have been August. So I think a lot of the Canadian militia probably would have left the army for the harvest season. Uh, same with the natives too. It would have been their harvest season as well. So they left for that. And then I'm assuming they were probably short on supplies. Um, especially since I know they plundered Fort,
00:54:36
Speaker
fort william henry but at that time the fort supplies were kind of dwindling as well and the natives did ransack most of it so um yeah i would say i really they just probably ran out of steam and then the soldiers had better things to do so yeah so vaudray his orders were for them to take both or to proceed as far as they could However, after this battle, there's a a number of factors that lead to Montcalm deciding that was that was enough. We're heading back. And that's going to cause even more issues between Vaudreuil and Montcalm, this decision to turn back at this time. So you are right. It is harvest time.
00:55:16
Speaker
The Canadians, militia, they need to hurry back and harvest the food on their farms. and If you remember, the last harvest wasn't good. So if this one's not good, I mean, they've already French Canada has already been struggling with famine a little bit off and on in 1757. And that's part of the reason that this expedition got a later start than was ideal.
00:55:35
Speaker
But um if the harvest of this year also is bad. it could get very dire for French Canada. So yes, the militia are eager and itching to get back. Some of them will start to of standing up to their officers or deserting in the and the couple of weeks after the battle.
00:55:54
Speaker
Then yes, the Indians almost like probably over 90% of them leave after this battle. So that's another, you know, 1800 1600 troops gone. Yeah. troops gone And then, yes, there is ah some worry about supply, about food. i imagine they probably could have got a good chunk of food from...
00:56:14
Speaker
the the fort but yeah perhaps in the in the pillaging there was not a good allocation of what was taken so all those factors play a role in montcalm deciding to halt there and head back up north some historians like Guy Frego rate this decision as indefensible you know only a handful of miles from fort edward And there's a road connecting those two areas, and he still has about 5,000, 6,000 troops and with all the artillery.
00:56:48
Speaker
However, since they brought the artillery by boat, I don't know if they had, they didn't have like horses or many like animals to pull artillery. So there could have been a slow advance that way perhaps. But that's ah His decision to go back up north is going to cause a lot of problems with him and Vaudry. And there's also the possibility that maybe the massacre kind of took the wind out of his sails and he was kind of sickened with that campaign and just ready to call it quits. But for all the momentum that the French gained in the summer 1757, is their high point.
00:57:24
Speaker
So if they had taken Fort Edward II before like the end of August, perhaps, then all of the New York colony would be open, especially Albany, which is maybe a few, i don't know exactly how many miles south of Fort Edward. But Fort Edward was the last fortification before Albany, which is a big hub for the British colonies at this time.
00:57:46
Speaker
um Who knows what would have happened if... Maybe the French had a little bit more supplies or a little bit more confidence and pushed south. We could see how the rest of the war, i don't know how the grand scheme would have changed, but definitely the the next year or so of combat would have changed quite a bit if the heart of multiple British colonies was now under threat.
00:58:11
Speaker
For sure. But yeah, so that is a that is the decision made. French return up north. They ransom back some of the British prisoners, and then they prepare for the harvest and for winter quarters.
00:58:29
Speaker
you have anything else to add, Matt? Well, I mean, I think we should point out that this campaign was a ah victory for the British in a way. It becomes a massive propaganda campaign.
00:58:43
Speaker
item amongst the British colonies and and the mainland. Uh, it comes a rallying cry for the colonies. Um, and I think it also like kind of probably leads to a little bit more,
00:58:58
Speaker
prejudice between the the Europeans and the natives. You know, these natives are, you can easily paint this picture as these savage natives are like, they're slaughtering the civilized Europeans. And that probably, I mean, that prejudice is probably deepened up both sides of the conflict, both on the French regulars who saw it happen and the British as well. So I think this battle has some long lasting impacts, not just on this war, but, you know, Just an unfortunate event that business turned out that way.
00:59:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that brings the the campaigning season of 1757 to a close. We'll probably talk about Loudoun's Louisbourg expedition that's taking place around the same time. And that's also part of the reason why they didn't have extra troops on the New York frontiers because so many of them were sent off to Louisbourg.
00:59:53
Speaker
And maybe we'll take a look either for 1757 or 1758, maybe we'll take a look at what's been going on in Acadia because that hasn't been static or still there's some very interesting stories to tell in that area. But yeah, that's our episode on the Battle of Fort William Henry.
01:00:13
Speaker
Glad you stuck with us this far. Yeah, I'm excited to see what it comes in 1758 with Fort Fronternac and Fort Niagara. and A lot. Yeah, a lot happens. Fort Ticonderoga. Fort Ticonderoga. Yeah.
01:00:28
Speaker
yes yeah Yeah. Lots going to happen. So you guys, I mean, we've covered some pretty interesting and fascinating battles and tales so far, but 1758 a whole nother thing.
01:00:41
Speaker
Yes, we're really getting into the meat of the war now. And it's only taken us a year. Yeah, and a month, I think, will be when we started. We recorded the intro.
01:00:53
Speaker
or Yeah, so we're yeah just about a year of this podcast. Glad to all of our listeners, especially those who've been with us since the very beginning. It's pretty neat to see this this podcast reach ah a small but dedicated following and seeing it grow more than I would have thought. Yeah. Very grateful for all you listeners.
01:01:12
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Can't say that enough. Really appreciate the support. Keep giving us episode ideas too. Cause as you know, we like do talks and discussions about topics that don't get brought up that much, or if we can highlight a part of the war that, normally isn't talked about. We love to do that. So if you're interested in literally anything about the first day of war, please let us know on Facebook or Spotify, wherever we always read the comments. So yeah, thanks so much.
01:01:43
Speaker
All right. Well, that wraps it up for tonight. I hope you all have a great rest of your day or evening and we will see you soon.