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Special Episode - Young Washington movie review
149 Plays5 days ago
Join us as we discuss the recently-released Young Washington movie! We've been keeping our eye on this one ever since the trailer was announced. Does it live up to our expectations? Would we recommend it? What does the movie do right and what does it do wrong? Tune in to find out!
Intro & outro music - "Drums and Guns" by Village Volunteers Fife & Drum Corps
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome back to Tales from the French and Indian War. i am your host, Jackson. I am your co-host, Matt. And today we are doing another special episode where we will be discussing the movie Young Washington, which came out just a couple weeks ago as of this recording. We had mentioned it ever since the trailers had dropped and we were getting pretty excited. So we knew we wanted to do a an episode where we're discussing the movie And we haven't really talked about it much at all yet between or between ourselves. So you'll get a live discussion of our thoughts, different scenes, different decisions the writers and producers made, what what we thought.
00:00:53
Speaker
And it should be pretty fun. But yeah, I am. I'm very excited to talk about it. As Jackson said, we've intentionally not talked about it between ourselves. So you'll be hearing our true visceral reactions everyone's opinions. So if one of us like to see another one didn't, you'll hear the outrage in our voices. so Or you could just hear should be fun. Like yes, men to each other. And one of us will say, I didn't like that. And the other person will say, ah well, I did. And then the first person will say, oh, OK, maybe it wasn't so bad, I guess. Yeah, we'll come out completely aligned on everything.
00:01:29
Speaker
Yes, we'll see. We'll see how much we think for ourselves, I guess, too. This could be ah very vulnerable for us, Matt. I hope it'll be a good discussion. Very vulnerable. I'll say before we get into it, a special shout out to one of our listeners, Colin, who lives in New York.
00:01:46
Speaker
He had messaged us on our Facebook account and he said he had been listening to our episodes and that had inspired him to go out and visit some local history sites in upstate New York, of which there is no shortage So that is something we love to hear. You know at the beginning of the podcast, especially I was going out and visiting some of the sites in Allegheny County and the surrounding areas.
00:02:10
Speaker
So we're all about exploring local history. And i love hearing whenever this podcast has kind of reached people and got them to dig into where they live and learn about what happened in the past. So thanks for messaging, Colin.
00:02:26
Speaker
Really glad to hear that. Yeah, that's really cool. And to put it out there, you know, I haven't really been to most of those sites that we talked about or that Jackson has visited. So it's always interesting to hear what, you know, what you guys go and see and learn there. And, ah you know, I hope to hope to make it out there pretty soon and see a lot of the sites in Pennsylvania and New York and otherwise. But ah it's cool that, you know, people are our listeners are getting out there for the firsthand experiences, because that's always the best part about you know For me, that's always like the best part about learning about history is like learning about something and then going and seeing where it happened and feeling like you know you understand the whole context around the around the scene. and It's it's a really cool experience, so I'm glad we've encouraged some people to do that.
00:03:10
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, Matt, next time you come out here, we're to have to somehow tear ourselves away from Twilight Imperium and actually go out and I'll take you to see some of the sights around Fitzpatrick. Sounds like a plan.
Release and Viewing Experiences
00:03:21
Speaker
If possible. But yeah, so Young Washington came out the weekend of July 4th. What a great timing on that one. America 250 movie about the most famous founding father of the United States.
00:03:37
Speaker
The movie is just about, well, as the title suggests, his life when he was younger, particularly in the French and Indian War, which this podcast is all about.
00:03:48
Speaker
I've got a couple listener comments from our Facebook post. I asked if anyone had seen it and their thoughts. We'll discuss those, and then we'll just launch right from there into discussion about our general thoughts about the movie and then can get ah into the weeds, especially since we've been reading and listening so much about this period leading up to this. So first comment from longtime listener Adam.
00:04:15
Speaker
He is in the UK and he notified us that it's not even released there until August. So actually, funny story on that. So I was not in the US to celebrate the 4th. I was in Italy at the time on a family vacation. And I tried to go to an Italian movie theater to watch it. Really? It was. Yeah, I was like, oh it's going to be released everywhere. And then I went there and they had never even heard of the movie. And then I looked it up and it was a U.S. exclusive release. So, yeah, I had that issue as well.
00:04:49
Speaker
They're going be like, why on earth would we show young Washington in Rome? Yeah, I was like, i'm see that I know. Yeah, the the well, I think i think it was the decision by the producer to make it like a you know, a US exclusive release for like the holiday. But regardless, I don't think it would have been played anyways.
00:05:08
Speaker
Yes. So unfortunately for Adam, he has not been able to see it yet. And if you're if you don't want to hear our thoughts about all the details, then this is your last warning, Adam. Look out because we're going to talk spoilers, quote unquote, about ah the historical movie.
00:05:26
Speaker
Next up, we have a comment from
Historical Accuracy Debate
00:05:28
Speaker
Scott. He mentioned one of the historical inaccuracies was Christopher Gist dying in the battle at Fort Necessity. He actually lived until 1759 and died from smallpox.
00:05:40
Speaker
That is correct. And we will talk a little bit more about that scene. a few few different thoughts about the Fort Necessity portrayal, some good, some bad. So yeah, we'll we'll talk a little bit more about that further on. For sure. And then last comment we had got was from Jordan. One of our Canadian listeners, he loved it.
00:06:02
Speaker
And he had said, has to say, after listening to the pod, I came in much more knowledgeable and excited. So many details you guys discussed were there. I'm not completely caught up in all episodes, but I'm doing my best every time I cut the lawn or have time. Jordan from Jordan, Ontario.
00:06:16
Speaker
So nice to hear from one of our Canadian listeners. I looked up where Jordan, Ontario was really not far from where Fort Niagara would have been, you know, just on that eastern, southeastern side of Ontario. So definitely not far from French and Indian war history over there. Glad, glad you enjoyed the movie and that you were able to profit from some of our earlier episodes to, to go in with some extra knowledge. That's great.
Film Impressions and Character Analysis
00:06:42
Speaker
So Matt, let's start off with overall thoughts. So maybe just in a few sentences, perhaps, what did you think? Does it get a thumbs up, thumbs down, best part, worst part maybe?
00:06:55
Speaker
ah Yeah. So, Big thumbs up from me, the movie in general. I thought it was i thought was a great movie. I think it did a really good job um explaining this period of history to you know an audience. And we've talked about it before. like In the U.S., we don't we talked about the Fresh End the New War very briefly in school. and you know Most people have never heard of the Jimenville affair or... braddock's defeat or any of that and while the movie didn't give those i that one nitpick i'll get into later i wish the movie would have like given a little uh like i don't know blurb or text on the screen saying oh this is the jumanville blend because it didn't really like delineate which battle was which uh for people but i think it did a good job of explaining you know how the french and indian war started. I think it did a great job of showing the different dynamics at play between the French, the British colonists and the natives. And I think it was a great, I think the historical inaccuracies, you know, were there just like they're in every, every movie that you know that comes out of Hollywood. for necessary reasons. You know, this period isn't always the most romantic that to have a film of, but I think, i think it was a great movie. I really enjoyed it and I thought they got a lot right.
00:08:21
Speaker
Yeah. ah I would agree. Also gets a thumbs up from me overall. Very enjoyable. It was about two hours, but I never found myself, you know, checking my phone or looking at the time. It kind of flew by, i think, Part of that is probably because I've been so intensely into this period of history that I was extra paying attention to see if I could you know catch any Easter eggs or find any inaccuracies. So perhaps that made a factor. But overall, I definitely appreciate getting a feature film set in this French and Indian War period, which is so under underrepresented.
00:09:01
Speaker
It's definitely an action movie first. There's some spectacular scenes, some very cool shots. Also, that means that some of the decisions will be made at the cost of historical accuracy in order to improve like the flow of the movie or to make more or prepared character arcs, perhaps. you know It's not like a step-by-step recreation of some of these battles.
00:09:29
Speaker
I think overall it captures the spirit of you know young Washington's life in the French and Indian War, not so much the letter, but I don't i don't think any of the decisions the writers or directors made were like egregious. you know Sometimes you hear about historical movies where they just pull things way out of left field and it it almost leaves like a bad taste in your mouth after you go watch the movie because it's just like...
00:09:55
Speaker
so against the actual history. I didn't get that feeling this time. We'll talk about some of the inaccuracies when we get into our more detailed parts and the nitpicks. Sure. Last bit I wanted to mention was that it was it was a strange feeling watching a movie after having read and studied so much about the period because there was some lines in the movie where I was like, oh, I know exactly what primary source they drew from for this quote. Yeah, that's what I know. There are some quotes and I was like, oh, I've read that. read that. I knew that. So never before in any other movie have I, you know, had this much of background information.
00:10:36
Speaker
You know, i I was trying to think of anything I could compare it with and it was like, I don't know, like 1917 all quite on the Western front. I only have a very general knowledge of World War I. I wouldn't be able to pick out like, oh, that's referencing this officer or, oh, this is clearly taking place in this battle. And like I can't do that for that. You know, I just have a very general like history lover interest in World War One. And that's, you know, not too much beyond the basics. But for this one, I was wondering if it maybe v even distracted me a little bit from the movie.
00:11:11
Speaker
Because I had all the background in both. Jax, I know you also saw the movie with your father-in-law. Is that right? Yes, correct. Yeah. So I i also saw my father in law. I don't know if yours got the same experience minded. But, you know, when there was a quote or something that i recognize, I'd be like, Oh, yeah, he actually said that or like, if there is, there's an inaccuracy, I was like, that didn't happen. so Maybe not the best experience for him. But, ah you know, I could, I could stop myself.
00:11:40
Speaker
No, i did I had no chatter during the movie. I was too focused on what was going on and also focused on how hot it was because I saw it like right in the middle of the 95 degree days with all the humidity. And even in the movie theater, it was still a little sticky. oh But anyway, ah last little note before we get into it. I know I've said that a few times.
00:12:01
Speaker
One cool thing about the movie. We had a huge jump in listens during the weekend where it came out in like the week surrounding the the release weekend.
00:12:11
Speaker
we got like 25% of our overall listens since we started the podcast happened in that period. So really awesome about people getting interested in this period, maybe who had never even known that Washington was in the French and Indian war or never even knew really what the French and Indian war was.
00:12:30
Speaker
It seems like it's driving people to learn a little bit more, at least about Fort necessity and Braddock's defeat. We really hope if you are a listener and you're the The hubbub about Young Washington drove you to check out this podcast. Really glad you're here and we hope you stick with us as we go beyond Washington's involvement like we have been.
00:12:51
Speaker
So that was really cool to see all the extra listens we got. For sure. All right, Matt, where would you want to start? What's the what's the scene or the decision or you know the cinematography or you know character choice that is top of mind for you that you want to discuss?
00:13:10
Speaker
I think... i think the I think the first one we have to start with is George Washington, how they portrayed a young Washington. um i think i mean, i I assume you probably think that's probably a good place to start. that know Maybe before that, I'll just say the movie, for those who haven't seen it, it covers from when he was a child up until Braddock's defeat. And shortly after that, that is the timeframe that the movie is portraying. But yeah, I think that's a great place to start.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah, so as Jackson said, they had to cover a a large swath of time or a swath of time there, you know from Washington's father dying at the beginning you know to Lawrence Washington being kind of a step-in father for him. Fun fact, and i Jackson, I don't know if if you knew this, I didn't realize how much older Lawrence was then.
00:14:04
Speaker
George. And I don't know if that was like a creative liberty the movie took or if he actually was that much older. But I i like in my head when we have been talking about Lawrence Washington, I never really pictured him as being like, you know,
00:14:18
Speaker
35 years older than Washington, which is what he looks like, especially at the beginning of the movie. And I know it was like the actor they picked to play Lawrence. And, you know, you can only age someone so much with CGI or
Key Historical Events Portrayal
00:14:30
Speaker
whatever. But it seemed like there was like this other father that came in that was actually his brother. But yeah, all I...
00:14:38
Speaker
knew was that he looked up to lawrence and lawrence was kind of like a mentor figure but i have i personally have no idea the actual age difference or or anything like that yeah so that that was just something that like kind of caught me off guard but um i think that the movie got washington's general motivations right i think it showed his like struggle against the um you know the british royalty or the uh the british mainlanders who have come over and were getting you know commissions from the crown and how he desperately wanted a commission and how that drove a lot of his behavior and
00:15:19
Speaker
desire to prove himself um matt i think yeah when we had when you had done some background on washington during one of our first episodes you had mentioned he was in like a middle class upper middle class of virginia society but he was kind of on the outside of the you know the elites and that's what he wanted to break into was that right yeah that was right i think it seemed like the movie yeah the movie portrayed that those kind of like class dynamics i think pretty well from what you had told me Yeah, I think if anything, maybe the movie portrayed him as being a little bit less than he actually was to kind of show more of an underdog story. But because really, I mean, after Lawrence dies, which they don't really talk about in the movie, after Lawrence dies, he inherited Mount Vernon. So, OK, so, yeah, they did kind of leave that part out.
00:16:08
Speaker
Yeah. So he got Mount Vernon and I mean, that's, that was a huge estate and then he would have taken over Lawrence's kind of, you know, prestige and land ownership and would not have been a tenant farmer about him. you have any idea when that would have happened? Like how old he was when he inherited it It's okay if you don't. Uh, I don't know for sure, but I do know that the one thing the movie got, you know, quote unquote wrong was that Lawrence died in the movie a lot sooner than he died in real life. I think he died quite a few years later. so he would have died after these events. But I think the movie had to have him die in the middle as like another motivation for him. um but yeah so he would die so maybe maybe the movie did it kind of right by not mentioning it because it might have happened after this and i'm not entirely sure i don't fully remember when it happened if one of our listeners does please tell us um because that i'm actually curious about that but um
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah, so that I think it generally got his motivations right. I think um one thing I didn't like so much was that it it it started, and this movie was, you know, it was filmed as like, you know, a 4th of July, America's 250th birthday.
00:17:22
Speaker
celebration so they planted some seeds in washington about like you know he's really like he he has a passion for the colonies and freedom and liberty which might have not necessarily been true he was from everything that i've read you know he was a true-blooded loyalist in the beginning like he um was not like perhaps his uh more independent leanings developed well after the events depicted in the movie you're saying correct yeah he wanted in his young early days he wouldn't have been so much of like the colonies are strong on their own and you know but i think the movie had to play those ideas because we know washington is an american audience as being the founder of our country so And I think they're doing yeah another movie about him and like the revolution. So definitely some foreshadowing that they're, if they're making, you know, a sequel, they want this to lead right into that. So it makes, is that going be called like old Washington? Middle-aged Washington. Yeah.
00:18:28
Speaker
ah no Now, so for Washington himself, and I'm leaning on you because, I mean, even though this was like a year ago when we were doing the heavy research into like this time of his life for some of the early podcast episodes, he had always struck me from the general knowledge I know as pretty serious, ambitious, but very dutiful person.
00:18:52
Speaker
um And i get the sense he probably wouldn't be super like fun at parties, like just a very serious down to business kind of guy. Like I must do my duty. I want to cultivate virtue and I want to be a productive member and I want to get into this upper class of society.
00:19:08
Speaker
Does that sound right to you? and do you think the movie portrayed his character and his temperament well? I think it did. um i thought his like kind of attitude at the party that he goes to with Lawrence or kind of breaks into, i think he seemed a bit awkward enough or upright or, so you know, don't want to say stiff, but like upright enough that it seemed like, you know, he wasn't. the most outgoing person in the world but he you know saw this as like a way to advance himself and not so much of like just a social gathering but um one thing that the movie actually got right and wrong is his relationship with with uh sally fairfax um
00:19:56
Speaker
So he he didn't he didn't meet Sally until after she was married in real life. Whereas the movie shows it as like, oh, they're flirting. And then she marries this other guy. So then that becomes a big you know ah motivation for him and kind of like... ah it kind of he's doing stuff out of spite because of that but he doesn't meet her until after she was married um but they still had a very flirtatious relationship from everything that i researched so he was kind of yeah he he kind of in his real life he flirted through letters with a married woman quite a bit um which again they can't really put that in the movie because you know that kind of
00:20:42
Speaker
it cuts against the vibe of those scenes with her yeah so yeah it wasn't so much of like they were in love and then she had to marry someone out of duty she was already married um but no i think to get back to your question yeah i think the movie does a decent job of showing like his not fun at party personality like he doesn't seem like he'd be a fun person to have ah a joking conversation with i guess that's that was just the vibe i got Yeah. Okay.
00:21:10
Speaker
Yeah. I agree pretty much on the main points there. Although I didn't know anything about the Fairfax girl before the movie. That was the one, their relationship was the one area I was completely in. I had nowhereah no prior knowledge of. So glad that you knew a little bit more about that. Yeah.
00:21:28
Speaker
Moving on, they have, I noticed they combined a couple of Washington's missions. So they had, they depicted him as a surveyor. that like That was pretty early on in his career, like when he's a teenager. surveying the Ohio country.
00:21:47
Speaker
But while, and Christopher Gist is with him in that scene, I don't know if, I don't know when he had met or became knowledgeable of Christopher Gist. I know at least by 1753. So it's possible that they had, maybe he had helped him survey. I don't know about that. But While they were serving, that is when the half king, Tenechurison, or Tenegrison, you know, there's different ways to say his name. They have then him meet them in the woods and lead them and show them the French fort, which would have been Fort LaBeouf, I believe.
00:22:18
Speaker
Whereas, and then he goes back and tells Dinwiddie and that kind of kicks off the the Fort Necessity arc, you know, building the road, getting getting ah an installation set up and that. But they they combine like the surveying with the 1753 trip where he goes up and he doesn't even know where Fort LaBeouf is, but he's got to find his way there with Christopher Gist, with Gaius Suta, I believe. And then i was sad they skipped out on Logstown, you know? Yeah. Super.
00:22:49
Speaker
famous important site that is just like 10 minutes away from me that doesn't even have anything except a plaque of anyway they combine those two and then they have so they have like washington kind of like sprinting on back and forth between the ohio country and virginia like back to back a few times um then let's see they i think they did a good job portraying, like when he's going out to demand the French to leave and build the road to eventually build a fort at what is now Pittsburgh.
00:23:26
Speaker
They kind of... cut out the road building part and the fort building part. And they, so they combined in 1753 with where he had to demand the French to leave. And they kind combined that with him in 1754 going up to, ah you know, build fort essentially. They combined those two. But i think they did a good job showing how a lot of the Virginians with him on in 1754 were just, you know, they were just there to get paid. They were kind of rough and tumble countrymen.
00:23:56
Speaker
They weren't necessarily looking to to fight the French. They had just kind of signed up, you know, to get a paycheck, to get some adventure, into although they didn't pick it in the in the ah the movie, just to, like, build a road, essentially. Sure, they had muskets, but, you know, they weren't trained trained men.
00:24:11
Speaker
I think the movie did a good job showing the... the rough and tumble nature of the the militia, the men, and also the the ambiguity around the orders that Dinwiddie gave him, which I think we discussed in our episode. yeah like Does this mean we can we are supposed to like shoot and kill any friends we see? Or does this mean we just tell them to leave? or like and then Yeah, I think it was Gist in the movie. it was like, oh, that's clear as mud. Like when Washington read the order and that made me laugh. Yeah, that was good.
00:24:46
Speaker
Yeah. I noticed they, did you notice they combined on the French side? So inside out, you know, guys know me. I love digging in the French side of this conflict. Little disappointed that, I mean, it makes sense. It's a movie about young Washington. Washington's the main character. Why would they give us like a big backstory or a point of view from one of the French characters? You know, that's this that's not what this movie is for.
00:25:10
Speaker
Of course, I would have liked that, but they chose to combine Jacques Legardeur de Saint Pierre and then Joumanville. So Matt, do you remember anything about Legardeur? I don't, but I didn't notice in the movie that they were the same person yeah in both. And I was like, no, that's not that's not right. That was Joumanville. That was a different guy in Fort LaBeouf. I couldn't remember the name of the French commander, but I leaned over to my father-in-law. I was like, that's not right. That's not the right guy. Yes, i would have loved i think it would have been a great contrast with like, you know, the 1920 year old Washington, no no military experience meeting Legarder, who had just gone to the Ohio country, like recalled back from pretty much the Rocky Mountains.
00:25:53
Speaker
like way out West, you know, traveled all across the continent. He had fought in a war, very experienced, like 50, 60 year old officer. And having that kind of contrast, I think would be really great, especially since he was a overall, ah like a well-liked officer, very respectable guy.
00:26:10
Speaker
So they combined him in Jumanville. They made Jumanville essentially the commander at Fort LaBeouf and they made him, A little, you know, arrogant, which is very understandable because you could imagine in their position, if they see, you know, this 20 year old guy telling them they have to leave with a message from the governor that you probably would kind of laugh at him a little bit. But, you know, they're they're making him one of the villain characters, which, you know, you got to have a villain.
00:26:37
Speaker
um And I, yeah, so I could see how actually portraying the officer there accurately, that would have just kind of cut up the flow. And you don't want to root against the antagonist in George Washington's journey.
00:26:51
Speaker
If it was like someone cool and experienced like Legado. He was such a he was such a like a stereotypical French enemy. was like it it was kind of ah It was a funny characterization, would say.
00:27:06
Speaker
So speaking of Jumanville, shortly after that, the we you know they have a scene depicting the Jumanville affair, which I knew they would have to have a scene. That's not something you can just skip over when talking about Washington's life in this period. What were your thoughts about how they portrayed that?
00:27:22
Speaker
I thought they were going to tell us who finally fired the first shot, but they didn't. Yeah. No one knew. Yeah. Um, now that I thought the scene was pretty good. Um, I think it showed probably the amount of confusion that occurred. Um, and I think it showed Washington trying to restrain the men, um, which from all accounts he did, at least from his own accounts, he did, um fuck Yeah, he's not going to say, I did not. I encouraged the men. Yeah, um i think I think it did a good. i think i think that scene was pretty good, honestly.
00:28:03
Speaker
I think it showed the the natives kind of going berserk and you know taking the entire matter too far. But something in me I don't know. I think it the scene might have been a little bit more violent in the movie than it probably was in real life. like it almost like seemed I don't know if you could top the violence in real life, though. Well, outside of like what happens to Juminville, yeah, that part, yeah, they did not they did not portray that in theaters, which I understand why. um but maybe outside it seemed like more of like in in the movie they were trying to depict like an actual battle battle where i think it would have been over pretty quick i think it was ah a 10 or 15 minute affair in total if i remember correctly which i mean i guess in the movie it's what probably a three five minute scene i don't know yeah probably i'm probably nitpicking a bit i think i i think overall it was pretty good
00:28:55
Speaker
yeah I think as well with, you know, the different accounts and the different interpretations, I think they they did portray it in a pretty, pretty good way, like a kind of middle of a road.
00:29:07
Speaker
Like, you know, there was one account that it was Washington himself who fired the first shot. They didn't have that. They had an unknown. British, know, whether it's an Indian ally or militiamen, they didn't know someone fired a first shot. Washington didn't want to like give away their position yet, but you know, the shot rang out, the French were alerted, the French reached for their guns.
00:29:28
Speaker
And then, you know, then everyone fires cause you know, it's just escalating way, way, way too quickly. Um, so I think, since we don't know for a fact how it all started, i think that was a pretty fair way to have like first shot from the British, but it wasn't like intentional or not ordered. And then it, you know, just chaos. Everything, everything's just goes off from there.
00:29:54
Speaker
ah I appreciated they had like Washington trying to deescalate after it all all gets out of his hand. He's, you know, running around saying like prisoners only prisoners only as like Indians are tomahawking men or like the Virginians are like stabbing people. He's like prisoners only, but then they do show kind of like some of the culpability in Washington hands when like a Frenchman comes up and raises his gun and then Washington just shoots him down at right after he was yelling prisoners only. Yeah. so They didn't have Washington firing the first shot, but they still showed him on camera killing a Frenchman, which I think is a a fair compromise for interpretation's sake.
00:30:31
Speaker
Yeah. One thing was interesting. Yeah. They had the half king mention the reason he hated the French as they had boiled and ate his father alive. i Don't recall ever reading that anywhere. The only reason I had read why he didn't like the French was that they had once like whipped him.
00:30:54
Speaker
hu I forget like what he did or what problem they found with him, but he got caught and punished. I don't know what what he had done, but he took that very personally.
00:31:05
Speaker
And then his power in the region was dependent on like the Iroquois who had kind of set him up there and with the French coming into the Ohio country they were you know taking all of his influence and power away so those are the two main reasons I had read and research as to why he wanted the French to go and wanted to get the British to help him do that I had never heard of a French boiling and eating his father or any for that matter we have talked about cannibalism but typically that's uh the natives and ceremonial you know consuming their enemies after a battle uh now we have seen sometimes you know the different cultures they rub off on each other a lot of the europeans adopted scalping uh i'm not gonna say that never happened anywhere the european but i i had never read that i wonder i wonder where they got it from or what inspiration
00:31:59
Speaker
That did seem very out of left field for me as well. I was like, uh, what? So that was because it seemed like something much more than a native tribe would have done at that time than the French, especially like, uh, you know, the French regulars. And you know, like a, uh, officer, well-respected, like minor nobility in the colonies, like for Jumonville to be, I think they had, he had said he was the one who did that. Maybe it was a French-aligned native tribe that killed his father and boiled and eat and eaten him alive. Maybe that's maybe that happened.
00:32:33
Speaker
Who knows? who knows yeah It's hard to know. it Everything's foggy. Let's see. Let's move on to Fort Necessity. So maybe maybe I'll go first. So I have a few positives, a few negatives for the Fort Necessity scene. I'll start with positives because we're optimists on this show. um The model, the replica of Fort Necessity looked great.
00:32:59
Speaker
I've been to the museum and the the replica there a couple times. It really showed how it It was a very basic affair and it was pretty small, all things considered. You had the inner walled area, the storehouse, and then on the outside you had the breastworks that they had hastily made the the few days before. So as far as the look of the fort and the general vibe of like the the meadows that it was in that was that was top notch.
00:33:25
Speaker
um Also positives, the shot of Fort Necessity burning at nighttime was like a really cool shot. And I think that the surrender negotiations negotiations going on and then marching out in real life. Of course, that happened in the morning of the 4th. But I think it was a great decision to have, you know, the fort in flames behind Washington as he like has to sign his his surrender, you know, initials on that that document that said he assassinated him.
00:33:54
Speaker
um you know a change like that is so small and it you know the visual element was so striking i think that's i think that's a ah good change uh that's that's fine by me even if they weren't showing it raining and and everything that as far as negatives for fort necessity uh they showed everyone on the british side taking shelter within the fort at the end when it was getting crazy. Really, it was just all the able-bodied people were still outside in the Breastworks, and then it was just the sick and wounded that were crammed inside. And that's not a huge nitpick, but something they could have done.
00:34:32
Speaker
ah You could still show you know like the hectic pressure and the mounting casualties without having you know everybody inside the tiny little fort. Also, one of the bigger the bigger nitpick for this scene is they had the French having cannons. oh this was gonna be my i was like oh i bet i noticed this in checks did yeah so they well so they had the both the french and british having full cannons in reality the british just had like swivel guns i believe pretty sure i don't think they had any heavy guns but the french certainly didn't because they had just booked it from fort duquesne after they learned about the jumanville affair uh so and there was no roads from fort duquesne uh down to fort necessity you know, they took the waterways and then they dismant dismounted from their boats and they hoofed it the rest of the way. So there is no way they're dragging these heavy cannons along that way to pursue Washington.
00:35:24
Speaker
And if they did have cannons, it would be over in five minutes like that. Two cannonballs would completely destroy the fort. Not not to contradict you. The only I looked it up right after because I was curious. OK.
00:35:37
Speaker
According to a quick Google search, Google said that the French did have cannon, but they were very, very small, like handgun cannons that could be mounted on like a tripod. So we're not talking. Like a swivel gun, I guess. Yes, actually. didn't that. didn't know that. Those, but still very different from the new cannons.
00:35:54
Speaker
It could be wrong. But yeah, because I was curious. I was like, I don't think they had like 15 pounders or whatever. So yeah, I think, no, you're you're completely right though. If anything, would have been very small artillery that the French would have. logged and you're you're right they didn't have the yeah know the logistics or the the manpower to have pulled massive bombardment through the night through the rain you don't know no yeah ah one and last nitpick for the Fort Necessity is they had the French like giving battle briefly like out
00:36:28
Speaker
not like briefly i guess don't know they had the french some of the french out in the open for a while and there was exchanges taking place and they were taking some casualties as washington was trying to direct the troops but in reality they just did like a couple very far range volleys from the open port and then like immediately went off and into the woods and surrounded the fort so there really weren't any french just kind of standing out in the open for a good chunk of the battle.
00:36:55
Speaker
It was pretty much all using the woods and heights to the advantage, but that's that's not too too great of a nitpick. Your thoughts on Fort Necessity and how it was depicted.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah, um I think you you hit on lot of the points I was going to. I think the location of the fort and the structure of the fort was absolutely perfect. you know Washington built it in low ground. He built it right by the trees under the false assumption that the trees would provide them cover. yeah i don't really think he thought too much about the low ground issue with the rain. So it was kind of funny in in the scene. You could see it like the realization starts to set in when everyone's coming up to him like we're going to drown here like if it rains we are done and it' see if you could tell it was didn't seem like something he had thought about um yeah you could tell especially right after the jubin vilfire just how over over his head he was in in all of this and yeah it wasn't on top of his game
00:37:53
Speaker
I can't remember what general was, but when one of the the British regular officers shows up and is like, why did you build this like this? You have absolutely no clue what you're doing. um Was was funny. i think it was a I was hoping they weren't going to skip over that part of it because I think that yeah this is probably the least lustrous part of Washington's career and the biggest blunder he made. And they they did they did justice by they they showed it and showed his mistakes and it was clearly his mistake. And I thought that was good. The parts I didn't like were that i you talked about the cannons. I thought that was a little bit over the top. Yeah.
00:38:33
Speaker
Also, like can we also talk about the the effect of artillery in this entire movie? like i was I noticed that every time a cannonball would explode. yeah That's a very big Hollywood thing. They do so much.
00:38:48
Speaker
yeah so i i that's a nitpick across all of all war movies those who don't know the cannons at this time they would just shoot you know the cannonball and the idea was nothing's going to stop it so if it's shooting at enemy troops it's just going to tear right through their lines or if it's going against a wooden palisade it's just going to crush and go right through it it's not they don't have explosives in them at least not, uh, either not in this period or not in this theater of war. I don't know exactly when cannons became explosive, but maybe, you know, a little bit more about that. don't know.
00:39:23
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think it, regardless of when it had been this time period. So, um, Yeah, so that was just one thing, the artillery. I didn't like how fast the battle went either. I mean, we talked about it and it was kind of like an all day slog where the British were, you know, kind of kept up in this true yeah this fort and just being rained down fire and stuff. And it went over really quick. Like they got, oh they all went in the fort and then they were like, oh, this was hopeless. And then Gis dies. So then they just immediately, you know, await the white flag. Did you notice the little the line earlier, before the battle starts, where like some of the Virginians are like, they mention like, oh, we you know can we get into the rum yet? like As they're like marching on their way up there. I didn't. They didn't show it in the movie, but part of what you know pushed to the surrender at Fort Necessity was people had broken into the rum supply because they were...
00:40:20
Speaker
despairing and they didn't they thought they were all going to die in a few minutes so they didn't show people breaking in and getting drunk but they they alluded to that there were there was rum and that people were interested in it earlier which is which is a fun detail i didn't i did not notice that comment know that's a good point because i was thinking too they didn't show like the you know people drinking rum and stuff but that's cool that they gave a little nod to it and i understand the movie's restricted to you know time restraints so they can't show you know yeah a full battle all day and um i think they did the best they could obviously the biggest blunder here was
00:40:55
Speaker
just dying yes i was about to say we got to talk about that so i think what they were going for was they had guest playing a mentoring role to washington throughout the early and middle part of the movie and they you know since for a story arc purpose by the end of the movie they want washington really stepping into and assuming a leadership role as he did in the in braddock's defeat But it seemed like they went with that the the Hollywood trope of you got to kill off the mentor figures so that the hero can you know rise and discover his destiny. When, no, Christopher Gist, as our Facebook commenter message mentioned, he did not die that day.
00:41:34
Speaker
he was at Braddock's defeat as well, and he didn't die there either. He had like ah a frontier death in 1759, likely due to smallpox. So yeah that was a questionable choice. you know They could still have...
00:41:48
Speaker
the Washington experience, the intense emotional and like, you know, catalytic experience of I commanded these troops, they're dying left and right around me. i have to surrender. I failed. And then have that like propel him later on to his third act.
00:42:05
Speaker
They didn't have to also kill Christopher Gist, who was like his mentor and friend to get that react. They could just show him looking around and seeing troops falling dead left and right around him, you know, for the same effect, I think. I was thinking the same thing. They did not need to kill guests to give Washington motivation to be a better commander and to right his wrongs. I thought that was just, yeah, just, it was just unnecessary. And I think it just does an an injustice to the real, the real Christopher Gist. And, um,
00:42:34
Speaker
you know, because he obviously had more military experience and he did more in his life than die at that battle. But, and you know what they, they could have, they could have kept him around and not have him like overshadow Washington by at the the battle of Monongahela, have him be with the Virginians who are kind of like pinned down and trapped. And then you can still have Washington come and rally and like save them. Like, Just have him be like locked down or wounded or, you know, some.
00:42:59
Speaker
i mean, he wasn't like a leader leader anyway, so you could still have him around without having him like make Washington the the learner, the junior, the apprentice, as they kind of did in this movie. So there were there were solutions they could have picked. That one was like ah an odd choice on their part.
00:43:16
Speaker
Yeah, that was, I mean, I think that's the biggest inaccuracy in the whole movie. So, I mean, one man dying when he shouldn't have, if that's our biggest gripe with a historical movie, then that's, that's a pretty good movie, I guess. Um,
00:43:28
Speaker
historical movies some of them have been way worse than that yes yeah they weren't using m one garands to defend fort necessity so we're we're doing pretty good um yeah one thing i and jackson i don't know if you know this but from the beginning i was like i think washington's uniform is incorrect because he was wearing like red as a militia as a militia officer and i was pretty sure that the virginia regiment or the virginia virginia militia wore like the red and blue which they show later in the in the film which does inspire what they were right it does inspire the like the you or the american revolution uniforms for the colonies um but i thought they were always wearing that i didn't realize that
00:44:17
Speaker
it happened later so that Washington would have been wearing a red uniform so i have no idea. With uniforms, I'm not the biggest uniform guy. you know I don't know. I i wasn't able to like point out inaccuracies and in uniforms. I know some historical historical guys get really into like that kind of stuff. Well, especially with miniature wargaming, there's people call like what button counters or rivet counters or something. which They know the uniform, they know the the vehicle designs to a tee and they paint it exactly right.
00:44:51
Speaker
I am not that kind of person. You know, like, for example, with the French Marines that they show, at first I was like, oh, these kind of look like just regular French soldiers, which wouldn't have really arrived in the colonies at this point, you know, with the white coats and then the you know the tricorn hats and then like the blue collars and stuff. Yeah.
00:45:13
Speaker
Like, I thought they had more like blue coats and those kind of those different hats. But yeah. Then like later on, like i looked it up, and I could find an example of French Marines being dressed that way or similarly. Then i was like, oh, what what did they look like? you know i i can't i can't bring this up in the and this episode. so I'm glad you brought it up because maybe you know a little bit more about the – I, you know, I only know the Virginia militia uniform because I painted a regiment of them for my Virginia Army. so Yeah, but it's like, did you paint them in 1758?
00:45:47
Speaker
did they always have the same uniform? I thought they always did. Maybe they didn't. Listeners, this is something for you guys to research. Adam especially. I know you play muskets and tomahawks, so I feel like you might know.
00:45:59
Speaker
Yeah. So let us in the comments if there were any uniform discrepancies, especially any big ones. And so that way we can learn too. Yeah. um And then just to wrap up for a necessity, I thought that was great that they showed Washington mistakenly signing the treaty that you know, that he admitted to assassinating Juminville. I think that was great. Obviously that was a big issue in the war. One of the largest things that kind of rallied the French. Sorry, just interrupting you real quick.
00:46:34
Speaker
I liked how they they had Van Braum there, the Dutchman who was the French translator. They showed him earlier in the movie, like speaking French to Jumanville slash Le Garder. And they, you know, they gave him a heavy accent, which I thought was appropriate because that also reflected how he wasn't perhaps a master of the French language. So I thought that was a nice touch. Sorry, carry on. No, that's cool. That's a good note. Yeah, that's a little bit of foreshadowing, I guess. Yeah. um One thing, ah but the only thing about the treaty that I wasn't a big fan of was when, like, Dinwiddie reacts to it, and he's very angry at Washington for admitting that he assassinated Jumanville.
00:47:12
Speaker
In real life, Dinwiddie wasn't really that upset because it gave him a reason to start fighting the French in the area. And you kind of see that in the movie where Dinwiddie immediately gives him the order to you know, go back or, uh, you know, basically you're going to write this wrong essentially, but the British colonies were that upset about the, ah the outcome of Fort Necessity because it gave them a reason to, to fight.
Braddock's Defeat Analysis
00:47:38
Speaker
Um,
00:47:39
Speaker
so and didn ah and The movie did portray Dinwiddie as having a huge financial stake in the in the area. so i he did he did he did have a lot of territory in the Ohio country, which was part of the motivation for you know we like we talked about that mixing the business and politics and his job because he did own some territory out in the Ohio country. so Having the French come in and yeah take it away from him, that was not to his interest.
00:48:09
Speaker
For sure. So yeah, I think, i think it, you know, overall Battle for Necessity was pretty, pretty good. I, I think that was like outside of, know, outside Christopher Gist dying, I think that's probably the best that could have been portrayed in a, in a film.
00:48:23
Speaker
All right, yeah. So let's move, probably end or wrap wrap up with the last major action scene of the movie. And that, of course, is Braddock's Road and then Braddock's Defeat.
00:48:36
Speaker
So your thoughts on that, or I can start if you want. I can go. I thought Braddock's Defeat was really good. First of all, can we talk about how Braddock is Gollum?
00:48:47
Speaker
Yes. It was fun to see him take that role. I was like, I recognize that face. How do I reckon I looked him up? Yeah, he played Gollum. That was pretty cool. i think ah I think Braddock was played really well. It's kind of shown as a you know boastful commander that thought he had the ways of the the frontier down because he was an experienced military commander. ah And yet at the same time, they didn't go too far with that, like make him you know like a complete...
00:49:19
Speaker
complete jerk, you know, they still had like Washington, like looking up to him and they still had like him, you know, his his death wasn't like, ah, ah serves him right. It was like, ah oh no, I've like realized my mistake and here Washington take, you know, take this sash and the pistols or whatever. So yes, they, they, they did show his negative qualities as, as his proper, but yeah think a good thing was they didn't go way too far with it and make him like a complete caricature. I think to my knowledge. Yeah, no, I agree. I think they did a good job. um
00:49:51
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it was it was cool like during the battle, and he was trying to still maintain line tactics despite the chaos, and it it obviously wasn't working. Yeah, I think that scene and that character portrayed a lot of the early British struggles in the colonies is that they did not really adapt to frontier warfare. Yeah.
00:50:12
Speaker
fast enough and um that led to a lot of men dying in the beginning so i think the the ambush and everything was was well uh well thought out i didn't the only well the only thing, so Washington, I think is portrayed a little bit more heroic. um Yeah. They kind of make him like ah an invincible superhero a little bit there. Yeah. Which I mean, you have for a movie about Washington and this is his big, you know, this is big coming up story that you, you have to do that for Hollywood. But I think he, he did lead a rear guard of like, yeah you know, he have some very valuable leadership in like rallying,
00:50:51
Speaker
troops so that the retreat wasn't a complete annihilation. Like they were still able to get troops out of there. And it was in part due to his, his stepping up there. So that is important to show. Don't get us wrong.
00:51:05
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. um I think too, like one thing that, and I wanted to ask you about this. I didn't know for sure if it wasn't true about like Braddock, not,
00:51:18
Speaker
ordering the retreat, but then you had gauge that did order or did like try to purport that there was going to be this retreat. Cause that wasn't familiar to me. i can't say a hundred percent.
00:51:32
Speaker
I feel like they were, they were making Gage out to be like a parallel to Washington and maybe they're setting up for the next movie when Gage is on the British side and Washington's leading the Americans.
00:51:43
Speaker
Maybe they're like setting something up about, you know, like a rivalry or like a difference in personalities or characters or arcs or something. But I had not read anything specific and I feel like I could see that being an innovation by the movie. Okay. Yeah. That was the only thing that I was kind of curious about, but, Overall, I think they did good. Washington obviously was portrayed as a superhero running through fields of bullets, which he did get shot at a lot in that battle, like in real life. They definitely play into that in the, for the, in the movie. I think they should have like five possible attempts where like the bullets go through his coat or something. Yeah. It's a miracle he lived. Um, and then yeah, lo and then one thing about gauge too, I think he was a little unfairly portrayed in the movie. He just, I think Washington, From what I remember researching, um I remember Washington and Gage being like friends. um
00:52:34
Speaker
And so there wasn't really this huge animosity between them, whereas one was like, oh, you know, these colonies aren't worth it, or the frontier's not worth it, and Washington's like, oh, yes, they are. like i don't I don't think that dialogue probably would have ever happened. I think him and Gage were. we're good we're good friends and you know i think if anything washington probably aspired to be like gage because gage had a royal commission which is what washington wanted so um but outside that i think i think it was a good a good scene it showed a lot of the failures of the british and in the frontier in the beginnings of the war and um yeah i thought that that was great yeah
00:53:12
Speaker
I also enjoyed it. I do... i think I agree with you that the the Fort Necessity was stronger battle sequence. There was a couple... One, think the biggest problem with the Braddock's Defeat scene was that it was a little...
00:53:30
Speaker
And I guess this could serve an artistic purpose too, but like the, the order of battle, like the, the placement of forces, it was a little hard to piece together. So they did have like gauge leading the advanced card, like the flying column. And that was accurate.
00:53:44
Speaker
It seemed like they had a lot fewer people and that, then there would have actually been. um And then they have Braddock with some people back in like in the woods a bit, but it's hard to tell like,
00:53:56
Speaker
the uh how those two locations are like linked or like the the movement of troops from and to the different like areas of the battlefield uh maybe that was artistic choice to show like how dense and chaotic it could get in the woods and on the frontier and like you don't know where the enemy's coming from exactly you just see smoke and shots uh so perhaps i can be charitable or generous and and think that One thing though, like as is commonly perceived, and I think you mentioned it just a couple of minutes ago, we got to remember that the battle on and on the Monongahela was not an ambush technically because both sides surprised each other.
00:54:36
Speaker
And so they didn't yeah and show that in the movie, especially because the French captain got killed, bejou right in like the first couple of volleys in the beginning. I actually forgot about that when I was watching, so I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah. So it was really just the French allied Indians quickly adapting and going up onto the hillside, firing down and surrounding the enemy. And then.
00:55:00
Speaker
Dumas rallying the Canadians and Marines as second in command and putting up like a firm front line. That is what turned it into the deadly massacre, we could say. it was not technically an ambush because the French didn't know the British had already got up to that point.
00:55:16
Speaker
They were hoping to cut them off at the crossing the Monongahela River. So they did perpetuate that myth. Not they not a huge deal, really, but Technically incorrect because i darn it, we've done research in this period. Obviously you did because I was like, oh it was an ambush.
00:55:32
Speaker
um The other thing that don't think they showed, ah they did a great job showing that the French had securely you know taken the high ground and were firing down. Because there was one point like when Washington is talking to Gage in the middle of the battle, like you know he's come out of his wagon after suffering from uh dysentery which they did show in the movie which i was like hey yeah true he was suffering from dysentery uh but when he like joins the battle uh he's talking with gage up on that like hilltop and it's like an open hilltop and there's just like random like british and french and no formation kind of fighting on the hilltop and i was like i don't
00:56:09
Speaker
That doesn't strike me. Like, I don't think the British ever got the high ground. I think it was still covered in trees. I don't, I don't know of any clearings. Maybe there was, I don't know, but it was just like, why are the, all these troops out in the middle of the, like in no formation out like skirmishing on the, this open hilltop. I think it would have been better if they really showed the, the, the French hemming in the British by securing all, all of the high ground on the the North side.
00:56:38
Speaker
And then, yeah, I guess with my earlier complaint about like the linking of the different areas of the battlefield, like mentally it was hard to follow. Like he was up on top of the hill talking and then he goes down to rescue the the Virginians who are down by the water. But yeah, which was in the like the the film says that the Virginians were in the front. So then Washington has to go to the front of the line. Yeah. But in real life, he was laying a rear guard that would have you know allowed troops to retreat behind them. so like yeah.
00:57:05
Speaker
You know what what would be interesting if they had shown, there was like ah an anecdote about the battle where some of the Redcoats had fired on the militia, the Virginian militia. Once the Virginian militia kind of split off to like skirmish behind trees as one does fight on the frontier. And some of the Redcoats thought they were like enemies and fired at them. i don't I don't think they showed that in the movie, but that would have been an interesting little...
00:57:29
Speaker
tidbit but still entertaining uh entertaining scene but uh yeah i do think the fort necessity or the jumanville skirmish were were the stronger of the of the of the three battle scenes that we saw agree uh agree um yeah so i guess we should probably do some concluding thoughts jackson do you want to do you want to go first well what were your main I guess what were your main takeaways from the movie? What are things that, that like, if you know, if you were going to produce this movie, what is some, what's one thing that you would have included? Or, um, I guess it's probably an unfair question to put you on a spot like this, but, um,
00:58:10
Speaker
Yeah, just ah that's just kind of what I was thinking when I left. It's like, what is you know what okay what could they have done to make it better? But I mean, I'd also just love to hear your concluding thoughts on the movie as Yeah, I think I got something. So first off, I'm just happy the movie got made. That attention is being shown on this period.
00:58:28
Speaker
All about it. But if I think if I would change one thing, it would just be... for the battles specifically like Fort Necessity and Braddock's Defeat, just turning the historical order of battle or, or ah you know, historical accuracy meter just up maybe 10, 15%, you know, like you you can show at Fort Necessity, the troops holding the breastworks instead of all piling in. You don't need to have the big cannons or like Braddock's Defeat. You can show like,
00:58:59
Speaker
the the proper like high ground encirclement or that it wasn't technically an ambush. ah You know, just turn, turn the historical accuracy for the battles specifically up just a little bit.
00:59:10
Speaker
And then I think it's a excellent, excellent movie. Still enjoyed it really all would recommend it to any general person interested in history. And we're glad we got all those extra listens on the podcast from it. at least But yeah, that's, that's the one thing I think I would change. What about you?
00:59:26
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, concluding thoughts, I'm also happy it was made. i think that you know, more movies like this need to be made, even though, you know, some, sometimes this period of history is probably unattractive for film because it is, uh, yeah, well, actually, no, take that back. You know, there are, there are big battles for good war movies. And as we've explored, there are smaller stories that make for, could be amazing movies like yeah for bull that we talked about and, and those like those, you know, you could have fantastic movies from those. Um, so I hope more continue to be made and, uh, I think this was great. And I kind of knew what it was going to be walking into it because the movie's called Young Washington.
01:00:08
Speaker
i knew I was very nervous for it, i will say, because it was called Young Washington. i knew from this podcast that Young Washington did not have a great experience in battle. And it wasn't the most illustrious time of his life. And i also knew this was an American movie, so it was going to paint George Washington to be a good guy or a hero um so i was just nervous how they were to do it i think they did it very well i think they showed the blunders i think they showed the triumphs at the end um and gave us gave the audience a full picture of how washington came to be who he was accurately you know despite a few missteps along the way but nothing that can't be overlooked for what the movie was in whole um one thing i think i would have
01:00:55
Speaker
not not changed but added to the movie is i wish the movie would have shown a little bit more of the treatment of um natives uh by each side yeah there was a reason that a lot of natives were fighting for the french at this time is because like the the french were treating the natives a lot better than than the british were in the in this area and they were not even treating better but more accommodating their requests they were trading with them they were interacting with them more whereas the british had at this time had more of an exclusionary policy and ah looked a little bit more hostile towards the natives, which is,
Final Thoughts and Audience Engagement
01:01:31
Speaker
you know. Yeah, I think they did they did show a little bit of that tension of where like Washington it's like, you know, we've got to fight for our land. We've got to stand up to the French who are like, you know, seizing it. And then they had like the half king be like, ah but whose land is this actually? Yeah. So they did show some of that tension, but I think,
01:01:51
Speaker
it There still was some unresolved tension as a viewer where it's like, oh, yeah, like, what about the natives who are actually living in the Ohio country? And like, you know, Washington having all is Washington's ideas of like, I'm surveying this British land. I'm telling the French to get off this British land. I'm fighting for this British land.
01:02:13
Speaker
they I feel like they didn't have a a big enough, perhaps, confrontation between those ideas and, like, the ah since when did it not become ah our land, you know, from the natives' side? Yeah. I could have explored that a little bit more. Yeah. I think, like, in even...
01:02:29
Speaker
what we're talking about this early era of the war, the natives played a, I mean, they played a massive role throughout the entire war, but they played a major role. The French force was like 60, 70% natives. It was a french an Indian, head like ah of a mostly Indian force.
01:02:47
Speaker
that Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, it was they were it was this was mostly a native versus a British fight, even though there was obviously French soldiers involved. The film doesn't really portray that for you know because we want British versus French. It seems more appropriate, and I think also...
01:03:05
Speaker
uh you know being an american film they're probably little hesitant to right it gets complicated and a little uh yeah unflattering for you get a little yes you get hot waters if you you know paint the painted native tribe in the wrong you know in the wrong picture which you should but uh regardless i think that was one thing i would like to see added despite that it was a great movie i thoroughly enjoyed it my father-in-law who was uh he's actually a listener of this podcast so shout out jay for listening um uh he really enjoyed it he thought it was great he was looking forward to seeing it um and yeah i think it's great i hope a lot of people go and watch it and i hope that sequels are made um not just old washington but also like uh if we could get like a sequel about uh fort william henry or like no we no we did to go all in on the fort bull expedition yes feature film just about that we gotta to advocate for it
01:04:04
Speaker
Maybe me and you can make an independent, low-budget Port Bowl rendition. You don't like it. Just be one of us breaking the other one's house. um This is a very low-budget Port Bowl. Look, I'm beating down Matt's door with a log.
01:04:23
Speaker
But we would get all the character deaths right. We'll say that. um But no, it was a great movie. I liked it. So that's my final thought. Yeah. Go see it if you can, if that interests you.
01:04:36
Speaker
um One closing note I have, I know I'm surprised we talked for an hour about this. I thought it might be like a 30, 40 minute episode, but plenty to talk about, you know, a two hour movie.
01:04:48
Speaker
But it's been a very fun to get a very fun discussion. But a final note I had is they have a scene early on in the movie where they show like George Washington, you know, kind of self-educating, reading some of the Greek and Roman classics that his brother like gives them to read.
01:05:03
Speaker
They also have... a line where he's meeting and talking with Fairfax and they quote a play that was very, very popular at the time in the colonies. And I've read this play before because I read a book about the Founding Fathers or about Washington years ago. And I mentioned how influential this play was for the Founding Fathers. It had a lot of themes of liberty against tyranny, standing up, being virtuous.
01:05:26
Speaker
It is called Cato, a Tragedy by Joseph Addison. There's a couple lines in the movie where they quote or refer to this play, which i I like that little Easter egg. But perhaps we could do some kind of listener activity here. i would be down to read it again. been a few years. Matt, if you want to read it it's in the public domain. You know, it's very old.
01:05:47
Speaker
It's not too long, but perhaps if any of you listeners are interested, we can have a little reading club here between now and like a few episodes from now. Like we'll give us a month to to read through it or something.
01:06:02
Speaker
And it can be kind of like a group activity for for us and our loyal listeners. i don't know if any of you are interested. You can leave a comment if so. Matt. Crickets.
01:06:12
Speaker
No, I've actually never read it, so I'd be interested in reading through it. Yeah, it's good. It's about Cato. I forget his full Roman name. I've got mar Marcus Porcius Cato Utis Hensis, or Cato the Younger. But him standing up to Julius Caesar when like the Roman Republic was turning into the Roman Empire, I think, around that time.
01:06:36
Speaker
But it was it was good, a lot of quotable lines, and it was a heavy influence on the Founding Fathers. So it might be of interest to all of you to read through. Yeah.
01:06:47
Speaker
Well, thanks everyone for listening to my, me and Jackson talk about a movie for an hour. If you can sit through this, you should go sit through young Washington for two hours. Only one more hour. Yeah. yeah thing Yeah. And you can come back here and then see if we were right or wrong, or if you agree with us or not, or whatever, but please let us know in the comments on Spotify, Apple, or Facebook. And we are,
01:07:11
Speaker
We're excited to read what you guys thought. And yeah, we're looking forward to diving into this one more. And I'm sure our next topic is a surprise. I will not ask Jackson what our next topic is, but we'll probably have an episode coming out pretty soon, I think.
01:07:27
Speaker
Yes. Excited to get back into it. I mean, I don't know i'm saying now. We never stopped making episodes, but we've got plenty in store. So stick with us.
01:07:38
Speaker
Thanks for listening and have a great rest of your day. See ya.