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Episode 15 - The "Siege" of Fort William Henry, March 1757
320 Plays2 months ago
Most people who know a little about the French and Indian War have heard of the infamous Siege of Fort William Henry in the summer of 1757. But did you know about the "Siege" of Fort William Henry? Join us as we recount the fascinating tale of a French winter attack on the aforementioned fort and its questionable results. You'll also hear a bit about how French troops were equipped for cold-weather operations.
Intro & outro music - "Drums and Guns" by Village Volunteers Fife & Drum Corps
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Transcript
Introduction: Overlooked Episodes in History
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome back to Tales from the French and Indian War. I am your host, Jackson. I am your co-host, Matt. And we're talking about something incredible today. Matt, what are we talking about?
00:00:25
Speaker
I have no idea. It could be anything. It could be a different war. I don't know. Yes, Matt is completely in the dark on this one because we had to push back the recording date for the last episode and that gave me a couple more days to just get like a head start on the next episode's notes and then I ended up getting like almost all of it done. so I was just like, okay, I'm just going to take care of this one and We'll let Matt just kind of wonder and and see how it goes along and see if he's familiar with this event or if it'll be all new. We'll find out. He'll be along for the ride.
00:01:01
Speaker
Yes, the audience will get to figure out how little I know about this period all in one episode.
Focus: The Siege that Wasn't a Siege
00:01:07
Speaker
No, don't worry. to What we're talking about today is going to be a more minor um episode, a minor event of the overall war. Usually when you're reading through one of those like comprehensive summaries of the war, it might get like a paragraph mention or sometimes even just a few sentences mentioned.
00:01:28
Speaker
if or maybe one sentence, depending on like what kind of level of detail the book is going into. There are a couple exceptions to that. i would be mainly using ah the book Montcalm and Wolf by Francis Parkman, which is, I think, one of those like Hallmark staples. like If you want to read about the French and Union war in an engaging and readable manner. That's very comprehensive. That is one to look at. I've been borrowing that from the library and reading through excerpts as we go through episodes.
00:01:58
Speaker
And then also Bougainville's journal, because he goes over the what we're talking about today in some pretty decent detail. But for more general levels of like books, this event isn't talked about too much. So listeners, maybe you've heard of it. Maybe you have no idea. Matt maybe you've heard of it maybe you don't really have an idea we'll find out we'llll we'll go on this discovery journey together listeners and podcast hosts sounds fun alright Matt so first off a question for you have you ever heard of the siege of Fort William Henry yes I have good I know that one so that's not what we're talking about today ah but have you ever heard about the siege of Fort William Henry
00:02:46
Speaker
ah well I don't know why did you emphasize the sea well we will discover that today so this I don't think Fort William Henry is by a sea is it I'm pretty sure it's not unless I'm thinking no no not sea siege but like in quotes like quote unquote siege of Fort William Henry see I thought you were emphasizing the sea in the siege in is there a naval battle It is not by the sea, no. Okay. Yes. Two for two. It's on the very southern edge of Lake George in upstate New York, pretty far from the Atlantic. So no no sea involved here, just ah a quote unquote siege. Yeah. It could also be called a raid.
00:03:32
Speaker
Now, this is a minor enough event where I don't even think it has a dedicated Wikipedia page, which is pretty rare because most of the most stuff about this war and and most wars in general and recorded history are pretty thoroughly detailed on Wikipedia. But I don't think this event has a specific page for it. So it's a little niche.
Obscurity: The Event Lacking a Wikipedia Page
00:03:54
Speaker
That's crazy because some of the even like smaller frontier rates that we've covered have, you know, at least small Wikipedia pages or references. So this should this must be a pretty niche topic.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, at least maybe I'll be proven wrong. But when I was doing some casual browsing, i did I could not find a Wikipedia page for it. So we'll see. If any listeners can feel free to correct us if they want to do some more digging on the topic. Anyway, we've beat around the bush enough.
00:04:19
Speaker
So what we are talking about today is actually a direct follow-up from our previous episode. So we talked about the battle on snowshoes in late January, 1757. So one of the aftermath effects we mentioned at the end of that episode was that there were some British prisoners taken from the skirmish out in the wilderness.
00:04:40
Speaker
These prisoners were, well, the ones that the natives didn't take with them to the wilderness. The British prisoners were questioned, and from there, the French learned about some of the military movements garrison strength for Fort William Henry and Fort Edward to its south.
Context: Prelude to the Event
00:04:57
Speaker
And then additionally, some of the prisoners even agreed to go to with the French on an attack taking place in March or in, ah well, it started in mid-February. The attack actually happened in March of 1757. So this will just be two months after the battle on snowshoes and some of the intelligence and even a couple ah prisoner defectors, essentially, are going along on a daring attack of Fort William Henry
00:05:29
Speaker
Now, if you most people will have heard of the siege of Fort William Henry, so they know so you can already know at this point, this moment is not going to be where the fort is taken by the French.
00:05:43
Speaker
However, it's still really interesting, so I will go ahead and dive into it now.
Preparations: The Winter Raid Plan
00:05:48
Speaker
So the brother of the French Canadian governor general, Vaudreuil, his brother, who has like almost the exact same name, it's kind of annoying. So Vaudreuil is Pierre.
00:06:03
Speaker
And then his brother is Francois Pierre. It's like, come on, guys. how why They couldn't have changed that. And of course, so they have the same name, the same like land, and like nobility name and all that. I didn't know that some American podcasters would be talking about this a few centuries later and then you know It would just turn into a big hassle.
00:06:25
Speaker
what' their names yeah Very inconsiderate. No foresight, really. That's why they lost the war. oh spoiler. who oh oops so no So, Vaudrey's brother, which I'll just, I guess, he's often referred to as Rigo.
00:06:42
Speaker
Now, that was the both of their last names, but Vaudrey is usually called to by his nobility name, Vaudrey, and then his brother is usually referred to as Rigaud to differentiate him from Vaudray. So I will call him Rigaud. That's the brother.
00:06:56
Speaker
He is, at this point, he was the governor of the town of Trois-Rivières, or Three Rivers, in between Quebec City and Montreal. It's kind of like the the third main city of New France.
00:07:08
Speaker
But he is starting going to start gathering troops in mid-February or late February to prepare an attack, a daring still winter attack on Fort William Henry. So as we discussed last episode, there weren't typically a lot of large military movements in winter just because of the difficulty in supplying and getting enough troops.
00:07:30
Speaker
Moving them across the wilderness it is generally very difficult and did not happen much. This is going to be an exception. Because Rigaud is going to gather about 300 regulars, 50 of whom were grenadiers, and then almost 900 other soldiers, including some of the troops de la marine, the French Marines, some militiamen, and then about 350 Indians will also be joining this attack.
00:07:59
Speaker
In total, there's going to be about 1,500 troops. Oh, wow. That's a pretty big-sized force. Yeah. Yeah, so i mean, we talked about the, well, like Braddock's da defeat, for example, the British involved in that battle. It wasn't their full force. It was like ah about half of it, but that was 1,300 men.
00:08:17
Speaker
So now we have 1,500 French descending in winter to attack Fort William Henry. So a larger force than Braddock's flying column. So this is a sizable amount of troops for this theater of the war, especially in winter.
00:08:31
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So, Bougainville, as he's writing about this expedition before, like as it's gathering, even before it leaves, he's already pessimistic about it.
00:08:42
Speaker
I think on the one hand, it's the typical like European distrust of, you know, the colonials. you know Because Vaudreuil and Rigaud, they were both born and raised in new France.
00:08:53
Speaker
ah But he is one of his concerns is that this is way too many men, way too many supplies, and it's going to you know take time to organize. It's going to alert the British. They'll be able to strengthen their defenses.
00:09:06
Speaker
ah And he's he's just kind of viewing it as a waste. He also records at the same time some of the tensions between Vaudrey and Montcalm. I think there was also some questioning about how Vaudrey's brother was the one being led being chosen to lead this attack. And there you know there's some...
00:09:27
Speaker
rumors he may not have been qualified um and then things like that. So yeah we talked a little bit about the growing divide between the French leadership and Bougainville himself is just outright noting that in his journal at this point too.
00:09:43
Speaker
you might be wondering what kind of supplies would a soldier need to take in the mid 1700s to go on a winter expedition. And in our last episode, we talked about just how cold and snowy the North American winters were at this time, especially in this area.
00:10:00
Speaker
So thankfully, Bougainville writes down basically the entire equipment list that each like regular soldier would be taking. Matt, I guess this would be ah maybe a good point. Go ahead and just guess if you can some of the things. Now I will say there's a few items on here. I don't even know what they are because it's just such period specific vocab. And I think even in the journal I was reading, there were like footnotes saying this. It's unsure what this is or like what he meant by this.
00:10:31
Speaker
But go ahead try to guess what kind of supplies they'd be bringing for the soldiers. um Item one, snowshoes. ah So it's good you put that out. That is on the list. And I'm wondering if that is a lesson from the battle on snowshoes where they're like, okay, we're going to make sure we have enough snowshoes around for this whole gang.
00:10:52
Speaker
and they got there. Because yes, a pair of snowshoes was on the equipment list. That's funny. So let's see about other things. So I would assume that they probably need wool socks or some sort of heavy socks and probably multiple pairs if they could afford such a such a luxury. um Yeah, we got some wool clothing on here.
00:11:17
Speaker
Two cotton shirts, two pairs of stockings. That must be the equivalent of the socks there. So, yep. Also two pairs of moccasins as well. And ah one thing was it was called a dressed deer skin. I don't know if that would have been in like a cloak or a shirt or some kind of deer skin item, but I don't exactly know what that is. But yeah, warm clothes and a couple different pairs of shirts and stockings, moccasins. Yep.
00:11:43
Speaker
Okay, so then I'm assuming that obviously ah your basics, so you would have your musket and you know your powder and ah flints and stuff like that, you know ramrods, stuff like everything you would need to conduct warfare, when that would be on any campaign, but then I'm trying to think specific things for winter, probably a blanket or something. Maybe that's what the deer skin would have been. something blank that someone here for ah yeah Blankets on here. There also is a bear skin.
00:12:16
Speaker
oh Now you might be wondering like, okay, this is starting to like add up. And then of course there's other stuff like a tomahawk, several different kinds of knives, like needles and stuff to mend um your, your equipment, your your, your, your clothing along the way.
00:12:34
Speaker
But especially with like a bear skin, you might be thinking like, oh okay, that's going to get pretty heavy. So they also, and you know this isn't even counting their rations. They're issued 12 days rations bread, salt, pork, and peas. Officers got a bonus of brandy and chocolate on top of that.
Movement: The March to Fort William Henry
00:12:50
Speaker
But they also mentioned having dog sled teams used to move supplies, which would be... very helpful in the winter. And then also they mentioned having some kind of like sleds or like, uh, don't know if that would be the proper term, but basically like something you could pull along with you on the snow or maybe like every so many soldiers would have one that they would pile on some of their extra stuff like the bear skins or some of the the stuff they didn't need or couldn't exactly carry on them for, you know, days upon days.
00:13:23
Speaker
Okay. Is there, is that, is that most of it or is there more? That's most of it. I mean, I got the whole list here, but I mean, there's some things that could be condensed into a single category. It does mention a pair of mittens, as you might imagine. It's bitter bitterly cold.
00:13:40
Speaker
But yeah, there's a few things I don't exactly know, like a drag rope and a portage, two portage collars. I think the note in the book said that maybe a portage collar was like what someone would wear as they drag the sled behind them.
00:13:54
Speaker
perhaps that couldn be that's probably what I would assume the drag rope would be for but yeah that makes sense yeah But yeah, so lots of different kind of clothes, tools, food, some winter-specific items like snowshoes and and heavy bear skins. And yeah, so that is kind of what the equipment, the kit that these soldiers are leaving.
00:14:18
Speaker
That's a lot of equipment for 1,500 men to be hauling for the winter. yeah And like, obviously, I don't... I imagine the Indians weren't issued this. The militia, i don't know if they...
00:14:31
Speaker
I don't know if they would have been included in this kind of issue list, but definitely all the regular soldiers and the Marines would. So that was, that's at least, let's see, 300 regulars plus 16 companies of 17 troops the Marines. So yeah, that's at least five, 600 or so regulars at the minimum outfitted this way, possibly the militia as well.
00:14:55
Speaker
So they are leaving in late February in different kind of groups, leaving from the French Fort Saint-Jean, which is north of Fort Saint-Frédéric. think it's on the Richelieu River.
00:15:07
Speaker
Then they head over to Fort Carrion. And from there, they are heading south towards Fort William Henry. And this is, course, where travel becomes difficult. So at this point, you know, there's no roads around Lake George, Lake Champlain, it's all just wilderness, hills, mountains, forests.
00:15:27
Speaker
So the best way to travel is, especially in the winter, is to walk across the lake because it's frozen over. However, around this time as they left, there were some occasional thaws, which left at least parts of the lake more difficult to navigate because you couldn't move hundreds of soldiers over them.
00:15:45
Speaker
And then there was some rain as they were descending down the lake, which had spoiled some of their rations. And like we mentioned the previous episode, it was around this time where ration and food supply in Quebec, in New France, was starting to get a little difficult. So it must have felt really infuriating to have some rat precious rations spoiled by the weather.
00:16:09
Speaker
Jackson, so while you're on the topic of rations, I'd like to take this opportunity to shout out a YouTube channel that I've been obsessed with. um If you're into like learning about rations or the type of food that we're talking about in this period in early colonial times too in America, you should look up Townsend's on YouTube.
00:16:31
Speaker
He does a lot of videos on like how to make recipes. ah In this time, a lot from the Revolutionary War, but one thing they talk about is salt pork, and there's like videos on how to make salt salt pork, and you know how it was eaten, and they go into like so the Revolutionary War at some points throughout it like Valley Forge, some soldiers would eat it raw, which is disgusting. Yeah. It's yeah, it's those. If you ever are like curious on like some of the food that Jackson and are talking about here, that YouTube channel is amazing to watch. So just quick shout out there. So maybe you could go to their channel if they have anything about, well, yeah, salt pork or peas or bread.
00:17:12
Speaker
in the seventeen fifty s or so you can if it's still cold out before spring comes in you can go outside in the cold eat some 1700s made salt pork and just think ah so this is what the canadians felt like as they were walking down lake george in 1757. they have a they have a video called uh peas are the best for survival dash winter survival food so okay yeah i'll have to check that out yep So yeah, they are now heading down about 1500 troops walking along the lake over the frozen parts, making some progress.
00:17:47
Speaker
they They left Fort Carillon on the 15th of March. So they're walking down the lake now towards Fort William Henry. So while they were at Fort Carillon, importantly, they had workers, carpenters, I believe, and i would imagine, working hard to make some custom ladders for the
Surprise Lost: Shift in Strategy
00:18:08
Speaker
attack.
00:18:08
Speaker
So the idea was there's these ladders there and they were built in certain segments and you could combine them to make an like an even longer ladder. And these ladders, they made like hundreds.
00:18:20
Speaker
They were given to every fourth soldier And then the idea was they would use this to scale the walls because they're you know they're not bringing any artillery with them. you know This is a much more a mobile attack, mobile advance, no heavy weapons support here. So the only way to get through a fort with walls is to climb over it, essentially.
00:18:42
Speaker
So they leave the fifteenth of March. They, the 16th, Rigaud, the commander, he sets out a scouting party ahead of 75 Indians, 25 Frenchmen. They're heading, they're walking right down the middle of the lake in columns.
00:18:57
Speaker
You know, like I said before, it's no roads along the lake at this time. On the eighteenth They like get within vicinity of the fort and there is an attack ordered to happen. So the idea to use the ladders, scale the walls, surprise the fort, you know, the garrison shouldn't be expecting this.
00:19:19
Speaker
It was also like a day after St. Patrick's day. And I think there were some Irishmen in the garrison. So they were probably celebrating, but, And the garrison at this time in Fort William Henry was pretty small. It was just 346 men total, including some rangers, and then about 128 either sick, wounded, otherwise incapable of fighting.
00:19:41
Speaker
On a side note, before I get into like the this this attack... Notice that there's about 350 men in the winter garrison for Fort William Henry. And that, when I read that, that added some more context to last episode's remarks, where Bougainville was saying that the commander of Fort Carillon de Lusignan, he was kind of a little reckless in sending out like 200 troops to go chase down Robert Rogers.
00:20:06
Speaker
Well, if Fort Carillon's garrison was a similar size as to Fort William Henry, yeah that's like over half the garrison just being emptied out maybe there was just like 100 or 150 or 200 soldiers left so that wouldn't have the fort at a ah more vulnerable stage when you have that many soldiers leaving in the winter to go attack some enemies so anyway attack is ordered However, they are spotted on the approach. I think this is, I believe it was around, it was either in the night or around dawn or just before dawn. But the sentries at Fort William Henry, they hear the noise on the lake. They they are alerted and the element of surprise is lost.
00:20:47
Speaker
So Rigaud, he ends up hesitating and they don't end up storming the walls. Now, Matt, before I go on to what happens next, what would you do, we'll say, if you were the French commander, you've got 1,500 men at your command, it's like five times the amount of defenders, you've only got ladders ah to to seize the walls, but the element of surprise has been lost. What would you do?
00:21:18
Speaker
ah Well, first I would probably get off the lake um just because of the fear of, you know, cannonball shattering ice or anything of that nature. um But then as far as a plan to siege the walls...
00:21:36
Speaker
I think you would have to do it. I mean, if you're if you're still committed sieging the castle, or not the castle, the fort, and you're going to use the ladders, I think you would have to do a nighttime raid or something to make your men less easy to spot. If you do a daytime attack, I think it would be pretty easy to focus fire on the men carrying the ladders and I yeah, I think that was your only option really is to try to you know mount some element of surprise or, you know, gain that back in a way but it seems kind of like a futile attack.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah. we'll see how that matches up with what Rigo does. So he ends up, after the surprise is lost, he ends up reconsidering the attack. he Whether he's just not bold enough...
00:22:32
Speaker
or whether he just thinks the cost would be way too great for an attack. We don't exactly know. But, you know, he inspects the fort again with some scouts and the attack. He determines it to be impossible. So the plan has now changed. So he is shifting from seizing the fort to now destroying everything outside the fort.
00:22:57
Speaker
So with forts, you know, usually they're They're fairly small overall surface area, but there's a lot of outbuildings supporting the fort or for extra space for, you know, where, where things are made. You know, this is on the edge of Lake George, so they have lots of bateau those you know flat kind of larger than canoes better good for transporting things they also help have some actual craft with cannon i believe on the on the lake so you need like lumber mill to you know ship a little shipyard there's all sorts of like extra warehouses and storehouses you know on the outside of the fort
00:23:40
Speaker
So Rigaud determines he's he's not feeling bullish on attacking the fort anymore and
Destruction: Impact on British Resources
00:23:46
Speaker
seizing it. So he and his men are now going to destroy everything outside the fort.
00:23:52
Speaker
So on March 19th, they began burning bateau on the outside of the fort. So there there had been hundreds of bateaux that the British had made. and the idea was, well,
00:24:02
Speaker
When it warms up in 1757, they're going to use those bateaux to transport men, supplies, cannons for their own attack on Fort Carrion.
00:24:14
Speaker
So Derrigo's men start burning down these bateaux. English see this from the walls of Fort William Henry. You know, they're trying to shoot down at these men ah who are trying to burn their their precious transportation.
00:24:32
Speaker
At some point, the English do make a... They do sally out, at least with, you know, a handful of men, but they end up getting driven back. The burning continues on. And then some of the French troops will again start to encircle the fort just to make sure that communication and troop movement to Fort Edward to the south is cut off.
00:24:52
Speaker
So it ends up being, the fort ends up like sort of being under siege at this point. You know, it's technically cut off, but the French troops have already like abandoned the idea of storming the fort.
00:25:06
Speaker
And now it's so it's become more of like a raid, but it's also sort of a siege because this is a much better plan than what I had. So I get if listeners are wondering why I'm not a military commander. This this would be why.
00:25:19
Speaker
Well, to be fair, we have grown up in a world very, very different from 1750s North America, and we don't have the the military training experience or education that men of our age back then would have had by now. Fair enough, fair enough. Some of these officers we read, like at least on the French-Canadian side, they like joined the Marines at like age 12 or age 10 or something. So it's like...
00:25:44
Speaker
yeah that that's that's a long time to start gaining experience so i don't blame you for not ending up choosing the same route that he did and it's it's funny too when you get into later wars in this period and you start having you know different governments allowing rich nobles to buy into officer ranks rather than have training um then you start seeing decisions like i would have made so uh that's kind of uh just an interesting tidbit Yes.
00:26:15
Speaker
Competence is better than how much money you can spend on an officer. commission cop put on Competence over commission. Boom. There we go. ah So on the 20th, the next another day passes as the destruction around the fort continues.
00:26:32
Speaker
On the 20th, the main detachment of French soldiers... advance towards the fort, I believe, like still from the lake, or at least, I don't know if the, they had camped out on the lake or like on the shore, just off of the lake, the French, I'm not exactly sure, but they start advancing towards the fort on the next day. And they're like waving their ladders up high, kind of like parading around a little bit as they advance.
00:26:58
Speaker
And they end up, and it ends up kind of being a little awkward, but they like They ask the commander of the of Fort William Henry, I think was Major Ayer, but I don't know his first name and that may be off, but they ask him to surrender without having to resort to bloodshed. You mentioned, Matt, about trying to regain the element of surprise.
00:27:22
Speaker
This is absolutely not the way to do that. So, you know, with, with ladders, like you said, yeah, you definitely want this, this element of surprise so that you minimize casualties on the way to the walls and going up the walls.
00:27:36
Speaker
But since they're trying to do this, like a kind of intimidation show, Obviously, the the English are watching that happen and then they get this the surrender offer and the major rejects that.
00:27:50
Speaker
So now the French are like, well, I guess that didn't work. And we can't, we don't really want to just charge the walls now while all of the British are lined up on it.
00:28:01
Speaker
So the English refuse to surrender. The French end up just going back to keep burning more of those bateaux and the outbuildings. There's light skirmishing going on this whole time, but with the range, there's not it's not to not involving a lot of casualties for that.
00:28:17
Speaker
Sure. but on the 21st, there's a lot of some some nasty weather, either snow or heavy rain. So there's very little action that ends up happening there. On the 22nd, a French officer gathers 20 volunteers to go and burn a 16-gun ship while under fire from the fort. So this was one of a few British vessels that actually had some some real combat potential.
00:28:44
Speaker
So he gathers some volunteers to go and specifically destroy that, which would be a pretty big blow. I'm not sure how long it would take to make a vessel of that kind, but I'm sure it takes a lot of time, skill and effort to assemble those.
00:28:59
Speaker
And that's yeah that's the the only place the British can make ships to contest Lake George. While this group dashes out to burn the ship, there's a couple killed and three wounded as they're taking fire while trying to light the boat in these cold, wet conditions.
00:29:20
Speaker
They do eventually get to burn it. In all, from these last few days of action, the French burned about 300 bateaux, four vessels, two storehouses, a small, it was called a volunteer fort. I don't know if that was just like if they had excess troops in the in the garrison. I'm not exactly sure what that would entail.
00:29:42
Speaker
Some huts, a sawmill, and then just spare wood piles that were surrounding the fort to be used for other things. And then on the twenty third French leave and they head back north.
00:29:53
Speaker
So that ends the quote unquote siege of Fort William Henry. um More and more so ended up being a raid, but it was originally intended to be a bold swift attack to wipe out British presence on Lake George, but ends up doing some damage, certainly, but not not the original effect at all.
00:30:18
Speaker
doubt, Jackson, I'll ask you this. Do you think it has an effect on the upcoming full siege on William Henry? Do you think the French forces were allowed or were able to gain some intelligence on the forward and you know potential weaknesses and kind of like a probing party, if you will? Well, they um they did surround it for a few days, so they would have definitely had had ample time to really get a good understanding of the fort's positioning, and and they would have plenty of people who would participate later that year who could you know relay this information and navigate. So there's probably some geographical advantage there with the french the attacking soldiers being very familiar with the area later on the year.
00:31:04
Speaker
i do think one of the main benefits, though, Well, I guess, yeah, we could get into talking about what if this would be a victory for either side or how we would actually classify this. But regardless, the destruction of all of that property, especially the bateau and some of the ships there, that effectively ruins any chance of the British mounting an effective attack on the French positions for that entire year.
00:31:32
Speaker
It takes a lot to organize a huge army to attack and those bateaux were very, very important for that purpose. Like I said, no roads going north to Fort Carillon. you're going to make your own road like Braddock and that takes a ton of effort and it's very slow, liable to ambush, or you're going across the lake and how are you going to go across the lake in the summer when you have no boats?
00:31:59
Speaker
So ah it definitely ah definitely impacted negatively the British efforts in 1757 to do any kind of offensive action of scale in the area.
00:32:13
Speaker
So all in all, as far as the death toll, it's pretty light overall for some of the other things we've covered. Most of it was just light skirmishing. There was a couple like short so like sorties and then some dashing to burn that boat under fire.
00:32:28
Speaker
In all, there's about 11 French killed or wounded and then seven killed or wounded for the British. you know, very light. um I mean, Washington's ambush on Jumonville had a higher death toll than than this, I believe, or at least including prisoners. It definitely did.
00:32:46
Speaker
uh john stark who we mentioned he's kind of the hero of the battle the first battle on snowshoes he was there at that fight and he was wounded lightly the damage on the british goods and structures definitely make it either very difficult or just outright impossible that they can attack fort carillon and you know they've been trying to do that for three years now Like in 1755, if you remember William Johnson and the Provincials, they were supposed to go all the way to Crown Point.
00:33:15
Speaker
When Discow ends up coming down and attacking them, there's some very fierce fighting. And ah William Johnson can't can't push forward any more than what would become Fort William Henry. So 1755, they can't reach the French forts. 1756, we actually had a listener comment on, i think on Facebook, saying, And he wanted us to do like an episode or something on the British expedition of 1756, which I think, I believe it just ended up failing to materialize, but I bet there's more to the story there. So perhaps at some point we can look back in time to the second attempt of the British to take those French forts, which obviously failed. And then now this year in 1757, again, it's going to be a failed offense or at least for the most part.
Debate: Was it a Siege or a Raid?
00:34:04
Speaker
failed offense in the the New York Lakes area. Bougainville, after this you know this expedition leaves and comes back, he estimates that the same result could have been accomplished with 600 to 800 men rather than about And it would have been less of a drain on supplies. I was going to ask if the if there was a pretty negative reaction from the French crown about this or just the French you know government in Canada. I mean, sending 1,500 men on a
00:34:37
Speaker
on a what would seem like to be a major siege or military action and just having some light raiding and packing up and going home seems like a large waste of resources. Yeah, so I mean, if their intention had just been to raid, then yeah, I i'm completely agree with Dugonville that 600, 800 would be a very comfortable amount to accomplish the same things.
00:35:02
Speaker
um Obviously, they had intended originally to just take the fort. Now, I don't know how the French government like over in France reacted, but in Quebec, like in New France, the the colonial officials were treating this as like an amazing victory.
00:35:18
Speaker
And I think the bishop, the Catholic bishop in Quebec City, and of course there's much a lot more you know mixing of church and state for the the french possessions in those times but he like sent out a letter or he ordered like ah a te deum to be sung which is usually like for great victories like those those hymn that hymn will be sung at this time um so by the with the head bishop or the archbishop i can't remember if he was an archbishop or just a normal bishop but
00:35:51
Speaker
But for him, like ordering like tae deum to be sung on the occasion of this attack is usually something referred like reserved for more crushing victories or more consequential victories. And Bougainville and Montcalm, they kind of like snicker at that. Like, this is like ridiculous. Why are they celebrating this like this raid? Yeah.
00:36:15
Speaker
So I don't know the French in France felt, the government, but at least the French who yeah came over to New France, they were not super impressed by the whole affair.
00:36:27
Speaker
So the British will end up framing this as a failed siege and a victory for them. And then the Indians who came along, they're not too impressed either because there wasn't much of a chance for plunder, glory, and very few scalps.
00:36:44
Speaker
So I guess, Matt, was this a siege? Um, no I would say, i would say no, just because there wasn't a, there wasn't a bona fide effort made at taking the fort outside of, um,
00:37:05
Speaker
near the end when you had mentioned that you know they kind of paraded around with the ladders going towards the wall, but then it kind of fizzled out. um I think for a fort to be under siege, you know there has to be some sort of like um either you are actively attacking the fort, whether that's through artillery fire or if you're actively trying to starve out a fort.
00:37:28
Speaker
um cut off supply routes, which wasn't really what they were doing. They were just, you know writing in the area and, um you know, trying to, I think, maybe tempt the British at sallying out more of their force, but it didn't happen. So I would say probably, probably not.
00:37:44
Speaker
Yeah, I'm still thinking about how I want to title this episode when we release it, like the quote unquote siege of Fort William Henry or the raid of Fort William Henry. I was still thinking that over as we were logging in. i want to, you know, there's a little bit of what's what's that called? I think I think a good a good title would be the siege of Fort William Henry, but siege in quotes. Yeah. OK.
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah, maybe I'll do that.
00:38:13
Speaker
Yeah, get some get some eyeballs. People thinking that they're talking about the real siege of Fort William Henry. But no, it's this episode of the war.
00:38:24
Speaker
Obviously, the you know the French government in Canada would have loved for it to have been called a siege. So I think maybe yeah some quotes around that word kind of shows some of the different framing on each side.
00:38:37
Speaker
Well, see, I think would just be the opposite. The British... definitely wanted it to be viewed as a siege because what was the end result the oh yeah you're you're correct yes so the british we we fought off a siege and won and then the friends they're probably much more incentivized to just call it a devastating raid or attack oh yeah that's true an attack yeah to whittle down the british supplies around like george to destroy their vain ambitions of conquest for the year So, yeah, I mean, yeah, we've talked a little bit about it before, but the framing of some of these battles and events that happened in the war is just as important almost as the actual fighting.
00:39:19
Speaker
But yeah, that's that's what I've got for you today, Matt. that's ah That was a good story. um mi When we were talking about this, I went on the Fort William Henry website. because i know I've seen it before. They have like a kind of a timeline of history historical events on there. and They have one line about this, and it's like...
00:39:38
Speaker
It's like St. Patrick's day ended in a French defeat. That was it. And so I think that's kind of funny. It's a very forgotten event. That is for sure. something but Yeah, there's a good account. If you want to read what the most info that I've found in one place, that would be in the book, Montcalm and Wolf. There was a nice like kind of narrated very readable account that the author drew up.
00:40:04
Speaker
And it's at least like two or three pages of the book. So that's, that's the most page ah length that I've seen this attack be given.
00:40:15
Speaker
But yeah, I guess now they'll to close, well, guess we have to say who won. Was it French defeat? Was it a French victory? ah How is it inconclusive? I guess that's also an option.
00:40:28
Speaker
I would say the party that won was all the fur traders in ah French Canada. Outfitting. as How to supply this army, you know, that order of 1,500 bearskins. That's pretty good for business. but The homeless snowshoe makers in Canada. withs yeah um If I had to pick a winner...
Outcome: Reflections on the Event
00:40:52
Speaker
I would say probably the British, guess just because I think a force of 1500 French could theoretically ah take that for it and probably could have at this time, which would have done devastating blows to the British position there, which we'll see later on. But it would have advanced that sooner.
00:41:13
Speaker
So I think if anything, the British probably got lucky here um and that the attack failed and that while the French were well equipped for winter warfare, they were not well equipped for siege warfare. um i think Yeah, i think I think if anything, the British got lucky. So I would say it's probably a ah victory for them.
00:41:32
Speaker
Yeah, i i guess there is the, I'm going to say inconclusive. At first, I was thinking French victory just for the the strategic blow to British war effort for the year.
00:41:47
Speaker
But then i was I'm also thinking, well, if if a force is attacking, there is some kind of engagement, and then the attacking force withdraws and the defenders hold the field.
00:41:58
Speaker
like That's also technically a strategic victory for the defenders. ah So it's very complicated. So I end up having, I think I'm going to say it's got to be inconclusive. no No victory on either side, really. I think the French absolutely could have taken the fort if they just kind of steeled themselves and attacked. They would have had some heavier casualties.
00:42:23
Speaker
I don't know how many, maybe 50, maybe 100, just charging the fort and putting the ladders into place. But eventually they would have just overwhelmed the defenders.
00:42:35
Speaker
Do you think it would have been impossible for them to try to transport any cannon or artillery to the siege just because of like how they were traveling on the lake and, you know, the winter terrain?
00:42:46
Speaker
I feel like I would have to go to this lake in the dead of winter and walk on it to get a feeling for like, would I want to drag a cannon across this? Like, would I trust that enough? Yeah. I don't know. I have to, well,
00:43:01
Speaker
There's ah a number of ways you can approach a siege and the approach that they outfitted themselves for it was a quick, rapid attack to scale the walls. So you I don't think you would want to outfit everyone for that, make all the ladders, but then also bring along like cannons for another, a different kind of siege. You want to optimize the force, I would imagine.
00:43:24
Speaker
So sure. Yeah. I think they probably, maybe they knew like it would just take way too long or it would just be way too unsafe to drag cannons across the lake.
00:43:36
Speaker
I would imagine. Yeah. And we're not talking about like large stone walls of like a castle or something. These are like just wooden ramparts essentially that are, bill where the fort is so like you wouldn't necessarily need cannon to you know tear down a wall or anything sure it would be helpful but ladders could do the job just let me be fine if if they're utilized well so i guess that makes sense and then like for the listeners that are like wondering like oh why would you take everything across the lake well as jackson said one it's easier just because you know it's frozen it's a flat piece of ground but if you look at the terrain of where lake george is and like um and where where fort william henry is
00:44:14
Speaker
ah Lake George kind of sits in the middle of a valley and there's hills on both
Modern Reflections: Lake George Today
00:44:19
Speaker
sides of it. Very wooded hills that would probably be difficult to this day Yeah, i was looking at the Google Maps and there's still barely any roads going along the lake and there's still a lot of just woods and and hills that are undeveloped and everything. So even today, it's still very rough terrain to go around the lake.
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah, it would be difficult to move a force of 1,500 men in that terrain in the summer, let alone the winter. so It makes sense why they went across the lake, but also that's right in front of the fort. So it's like you're approaching over a very long field, a very long flat field. Pretty much, yeah. So, yeah.
00:44:54
Speaker
Yeah. I guess one final note, as i since we're just looking here in Google Maps, I always like it when some of these small towns, like the town of what is now called the town of Lake George, where Fort William Henry, like the museum and stuff is.
00:45:08
Speaker
i always like when these small towns, like Enoswego, appreciate their history or give nods to what happened there i see there's a montcalm street there is a disco street there's a mohican street um and i think there's there's probably a couple others but i was yeah i just noticed that as i was kind of skimming around the area getting a feel for something so always like it when these areas nod oh and ottawa street as well hendrick as well i think that was the name of the the English name of one of the Indian chiefs who fought for the British on the Battle of Lake George in 1755.
00:45:42
Speaker
ah um Always love when they nod to their history and name some things after what happened there. Jackson, we need to do a battlefield tour in upstate New York. We've talked about so many things that have happened there now and I really want to go. Yeah. I visit family New Hampshire every so often. I go along route 90 through, right through upstate New York. And the last time I went was just as I was beginning to get into like,
00:46:09
Speaker
like heavily into French and Indian War stuff. But now I'm like, oh, next time I go out there, we got to stop and see this. We got to stop and see this. Can we make the detour up to Lake George and Lake Champlain? Oh, I would love to. But yeah.
00:46:21
Speaker
Your wife will be thrilled when a seven hour drive turns into a 14 hour drive, but it must be done. It simply must. There's no other way.
Conclusion and Future Topics
00:46:31
Speaker
i think the key will have to be framed. Oh, yeah, we'll do some like recreational stuff. Hiking, swimming, blah, blah, blah. But a little bit of history. We've got to go by the museum. We've got to do that. yeah of course At some point, I'll make my way over there. Maybe we can coordinate together one day. But, yeah. yes So, that is the quote-unquote siege of Fort William Henry.
00:46:57
Speaker
is the Is our next episode also a surprise? So I have an idea for fun little April Fool's one if you want to record in the next week or so. um But the next big episode for our listeners, yes, will be the actual siege of Fort William Henry.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah, we're getting to the nitty gritty. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right. Anything else before we close, Matt? I don't have anything. Thanks for the surprise. that was ah That was a fun story and I enjoyed it and I'm sure our listeners did as well.
00:47:30
Speaker
Very good. All right. Well, everyone take care of a nice rest of your day or evening. Send us a comment on Facebook or Spotify for any episode requests or feedback or you know anything else.
00:47:44
Speaker
Share it with a friend. And yeah, we appreciate it. All right. See you next time.