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The "Dream 100" Execution Plan [Google Sheet System]
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In this AI marketing podcast episode, Dan Sanchez and Ken Freire explore why great ideas alone aren't enough to build authority—you need relationships to move markets. They unpack how podcasting acts as a "Swiss Army Knife" for networking, allowing you to connect with gatekeepers, dream clients, and industry peers. Dan and Ken provide a step-by-step guide on who to interview, how to execute genuine outreach without over-automating, and how to use AI strategically in pre-production without killing the human connection.
My Favorite AI Tools
- Tella (AI screen recording app I record all my solo episodes with) - https://danchez.com/tella
- High Level (My all in one marketing platform) - https://danchez.com/highlevel
- Zencastr (Best AI podcast tool) - https://danchez.com/podtools
- n8n (my favorite AI automation tool) - https://danchez.com/n8n
Resources Mentioned
- Content-Based Networking by James Carberry - Book Link
- The Ultimate Podcast Assessment - https://aidrivenmarketer.com/pod
- My Showrunner (Custom GPT) - https://myshowrunner.com/
- Fathom (AI Notetaker) - https://fathom.video/
- Social Media Examiner - https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/
- Otter.ai - https://otter.ai/
Timestamps
- 00:00 – Why ideas are incomplete without relationships.
- 07:45 – Credibility by Association: Leveraging the "Oprah Effect."
- 12:20 – The serendipity of opportunities: How knowing people leads to career leaps.
- 18:42 – The "Dream 100" Strategy: Targeting ideal prospects and partners.
- 25:45 – The 5-Step Framework: From building the list to the final follow-up.
- 36:59 – The AI Warning: Why you must not use AI for outreach.
- 38:12 – The AI Advantage: Using Custom GPTs for pre-interview research and questions.
- 47:52 – The Follow-Up Game: Turning interviews into genuine friendships with memes and texts.
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
00:00:05
Dan Sanchez
If you've been listening to the series we've been doing on the AI-driven marketer around thought leadership, then you probably have the general idea that great ideas lead to being an authority.
00:00:18
Dan Sanchez
And that's cute, but it's incomplete. In fact, it's kind of wrong. Because ideas generally don't move markets. It it would seem like they do, but it's usually not just the ideas. Because markets are people.
00:00:34
Dan Sanchez
And we need to build relationships with those people who already have the authority, already have the influence in order to get our ideas seen by the market. Because remember, skepticism is high.
00:00:47
Dan Sanchez
So one of the fastest ways you can go and build authority is by building some strategic relationships. It's interesting that we kicked off yesterday's episode or two days ago from this episode with the fact that we use podcasting so much to get our ideas out there. But podcasting, again, it's Swiss Army knife, is also a fantastic tool in order to build relationships with just about anybody you need to in the industry.
00:01:13
Dan Sanchez
So in this episode, we're going to cover a little bit more about how it can be used to build relationships with anybody you need, how those relationships can be used to your advantage to build authority in a step-by-step process that we use to do it.
00:01:27
Dan Sanchez
So welcome back to the AI Driver Marketer. Again, this is the Own the Show series where we're taking a podcast series into individual chapters of a book called Own the Show. And we're kind of building it in public. We're learning in the light with everybody else. And we're hoping for the best, hoping this becomes a good book. We'll have to follow up. Stay tuned for the final episode where we actually talk about the publishing process of this book. And you can judge the book for yourself and let us know. Anyway, I'm Dan Sanchez and I'm joined by my co-host, Ken Freire.
00:01:55
Ken Freire
What's up, bro? I'm ready for the book launch. Let's do it.
00:01:58
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:01:59
Ken Freire
yeah
00:01:59
Dan Sanchez
And I know this is this is like a topic that's near and dear to your heart. It's interesting because I actually learned about this whole topic of using a podcast to build relationships from James Carberry, who got a shout out in the last episode, but deserves a huge shout out in this one because he's the one who even taught. He wrote the book on this topic.
00:02:15
Dan Sanchez
called content-based networking.
00:02:15
Ken Freire
For sure.
00:02:17
Dan Sanchez
And it's become a mainstay for me because I've always wanted to build relationships. I'm more the introvert and I'm like, I need a way to build relationships and podcasting like gave it to me. it was like a gift from on high or more like from, from James Carberry to give this introvert a way to go and make friends with lots of people out there.
00:02:34
Dan Sanchez
But I figured like salespeople would want to do this. Interestingly, in martin and marketers are the ones you get to usually do podcasts, but you're the sales guy.
00:02:41
Ken Freire
Oh.
00:02:43
Dan Sanchez
So has this hit like a chord for you, being able to like have a podcast to to meet and greet anybody you want? And you're an extrovert, so it's like like a double win for you.
00:02:52
Ken Freire
I for Sherman, I am an extrovert and but even extroverts sometimes, especially salespeople have a hard time.
00:02:53
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:03:00
Ken Freire
Like, how do I come across as I want to get to know you and I'm not trying to pitch you.
00:03:04
Dan Sanchez
yeah. yeah.
00:03:05
Ken Freire
But then also deep down inside, you're like, this might be an opportunity. And it's this weird balance, man. Like, honestly, like you're truly wanting to serve them. But you're like, can this be a closed deal somewhere down the line?
00:03:17
Ken Freire
And people could sense that motive. And what I have found is I remember thinking to myself, how do I walk through this in a authentic way and also meet new people that normally if I just ask them to go meet up for a cup of coffee, it would never work.
00:03:36
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:03:37
Ken Freire
And I remember when you told me about James Carberry's book, and i I've got to meet him a couple of times now, and I read it. It was like this light bulb that like this is the door or the gateway to anyone that I want to meet. And sometimes it takes a little bit bit of finagling, but man, it has opened so many doors for me. In just about any industry that I wanted to get into, i literally just start a podcast. I start interviewing a few people and then I start interviewing higher end people. It has not failed me yet.
00:04:10
Ken Freire
So it's it's beautiful. i'm I'm excited we get to talk about this because I feel like in some ways I've developed my own framework on this area as well.
00:04:19
Dan Sanchez
This chapter is so powerful that you literally could ignore the rest of this book, do nothing but build relationships through a podcast and still make out incredibly well. It's just that powerful because we all know like relationships, they can move mountains, you know, and they're not just in a buyer way. Sure, you can interview your ideal buyers and provided you're not like just like pitching them at the end of the interview. Don't do that. because it builds trust. People buy from people they know, like, and trust.
00:04:48
Dan Sanchez
So if you can figure out a systematic way to build relationships, and I'd say podcasting is one of the best ways to do it, then you have a great system for making friends and friends buy from friends, friends recommend friends, friends give endorsements or help share content from, or all kinds of things when they're people that they know, like, and trust.
00:05:06
Dan Sanchez
So a podcast gives us a systematic play in order to do that. But let's talk a little bit more about like why relationships are so important to thought leadership specifically. I'll give my first one, and it's one we actually already kind of previewed when we were talking about the 30-30-30 plan, which is after reading your 30-ish books, doing 30 interviews with people who are already in that space, who are already influential out there, or specifically the authors that you're reading, because it's one of the best ways I've ever found to learn something.
00:05:37
Dan Sanchez
it's one thing to go and read the book, but if you ever talk to the offer author of a book, you find you can go way deeper because now you can get your unanswered questions answered. You can actually find the deeper meaning behind what they meant. You can actually wrestle with them if you have a difference of opinion in a polite way, but in a really constructive way, you can actually solidify what you really know about a topic after talking to the people who really know what they're talking about.
00:06:01
Dan Sanchez
And you might find that some of them don't know what they're talking about even if they've written a book. But generally, you end up really solidifying your own learning by being able to talk to people who are world-class on that very specific subject that you want to become known for. And that's one of my favorite things to do with the podcast. It's what I did with this one when I started Driven Marketer. I just started interviewing people who were doing great things with AI in the early days, and it was a great way to kick off my own learning.
00:06:27
Ken Freire
You know, i i even have a little, I don't know if I've ever told you I've done this before. i don't do it a lot because I like buying books. But if you ever want to get free books, you could even ask that guest to come join and be like, hey, by the way, do you mind sending copy of your book so I can read it beforehand?
00:06:44
Ken Freire
And dude, most of the time they're like, absolutely, because they want the the audience that you're about to go in front of them. So I've gotten free books that way. and I have have a lot of books.
00:06:55
Dan Sanchez
Bro, I just buy their book.
00:06:55
Ken Freire
Yeah. That's what i saying.
00:06:57
Dan Sanchez
There have been people that are like, can I send you a more a newer version of my book?
00:06:57
Ken Freire
I still buy I normally buy their books.
00:07:01
Dan Sanchez
And I'm like, sure, here, send it. I have certainly gotten free books from being a podcaster, but I generally just buy their book. Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:09
Ken Freire
I have a lot of books that I buy.
00:07:11
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:07:11
Ken Freire
if it's a higher end, like a A-lister, right? I have like, I rank them sometimes like an A-lister. I typically buy their book and I tell them hey, I just read your book.
00:07:20
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
00:07:20
Ken Freire
Would love to interview you on your podcast. But then there are other people I don't have time to do that. I don't i don't have time to read 50 books if I'm like reaching out to that many people. So it's it's just a fun way for those of you who are book aficionados like I am. But another another way that why relationships are so important that you got to think about is it's credibility through association.
00:07:46
Ken Freire
right like When people start to picture you, they're like, oh, yeah, Ken has been on a podcast with these guys. Yeah, I could do that. right i It's funny because, Dan, you and I have been friends for 20 plus years now, I think.
00:08:00
Ken Freire
I got to do the math or 19 years, 19 years. Right. Now there are people who reach out to me and they're like dude, you're friends with Dan Sanchez. And I'm like, yeah, dude, I've known him forever. They're like, oh my gosh, he's awesome. He's amazing. He's so great. Like he's such a whiz with AI. And I'm like,
00:08:16
Ken Freire
Oh yeah. Like, you know, like I forget about that.
00:08:19
Ken Freire
Like, and they're like, you must know a bunch of stuff. I'm like, I mean, I guess, I don't know. I was like, I just learned a lot from Dan. Like, I just look at you for that stuff. So, but there is so much from just being around the same group of people that people naturally think, oh, you roll with this crew. You must know a lot.
00:08:35
Dan Sanchez
Yep. Especially if they're all within a very tight niche. All of a sudden you're showing up on the socials like, oh, I just talked to so-and-so.
00:08:39
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:42
Dan Sanchez
Oh, I just talked to this person. I just talked to this person. Even without you saying anything, like you could literally put no ideas. Hopefully you're talking about the books you're reading, some of the ideas you've had, and you're like posting those too. But even if you do none of that, people are just going to start associating those people's success With you at Sweetfish, we used to call this the Oprah effect. And that's kind of like how Oprah got her rise to power. She was interviewing all the most awesome people, right? Interviewing them. And some of that would come off on her and she would shine because of it.
00:09:13
Dan Sanchez
It's funny because you don't really even have to say anything. It's just some of that credibility just from being associated with these people ends up coming off on you. But you don't have to brag about it. You don't have to be like, oh, you don't have to like name drop it. You just tell the truth and be like, oh, I interviewed so-and-so. Here's what I learned from them. Again, go the humble route, be the student route.
00:09:31
Dan Sanchez
And that ends up being enough. But the other cool thing is once you get to know them, they might your relationship might go farther than the interview, which is the hopes that you actually build a method of maintaining these relationships. And if you become friends with these people, you know sometimes they might even give you something like a formal endorsement. They might give you a kind word that you can post on your website or be like, I love the way you do X and you can put that on your website next to their photo. like that That becomes real credibility, real value. Because even though your ideas might be great, again, we're dealing with the trust problem. not amount of ideas problem. And in order for people to believe your great ideas and actually put them to test to find out how great they are, they need to actually believe it first. So credibility is everything. And showing up as your real authentic self, showing up in humility as a student is one way to do that. But another way is to get other people saying awesome things about you. So again, first rule of thought leadership is you can't call yourself a thought leader. You let other people say it.
00:10:29
Dan Sanchez
And if these people say it, then it's probably true.
00:10:34
Ken Freire
Yeah, which brings up the next one is that while it creates association, it creates endorsements, it's also creating great distribution content.
00:10:45
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:10:46
Ken Freire
Right, because if you have like, for example, Dan, if I have you on my show or whatever, you're gonna share that, or most like more often than that, you'll share it. People will share whenever they've been on a show.
00:10:58
Ken Freire
And that's how your audience starts to grow, right? So if you're building relationships with people within your niche, and they're like, oh my gosh, This guy was on the podcast. That's great, right? also now you have more content to distribute.
00:11:13
Ken Freire
Sometimes it's hard for people to just come up with content week after week after week.
00:11:19
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:11:19
Ken Freire
But when you're interviewing someone, they're creating the content for you. And that grows your base. So I find that being able to do both of these is super valuable, super important. And and it can change the dynamic and how quickly you grow your thought leadership.
00:11:35
Dan Sanchez
And also you build relationships with these people. They see you on social and if they're active on the same social platforms, they might be more likely because they know you now, you know, you start in a relationship and hopefully you keep it going. You text them fun things every once in a while. You keep that relationship going. When they see you on LinkedIn or Instagram or wherever you are,
00:11:52
Dan Sanchez
they're going to be more likely to engage with your stuff. Maybe even share it every once in a while. Maybe just on LinkedIn, you know, it's driven by comments. So they comment. That means it goes after all their people with their comment attached to it. And that just tends to build over time when you have all these relationships. So it's distribution through all that too.
00:12:08
Dan Sanchez
It also creates, this is the most fun part. It's the part that you can't really measure. There's no ROI on this, but the serendipity of the opportunities that just comes from knowing lots of people and having them know and like and trust you.
00:12:17
Ken Freire
Yep.
00:12:19
Dan Sanchez
on a one-to-one basis with these kinds of people. I can't tell you how many opportunities have just shown up out of the blue. One phone call. like Like I work at Social Media Examiner because of a friend, not because of like, because I just got lucky with like Michael Stelzner. Like my Logan Lyles, who's a friend, plugged me into a smaller podcast, which then got me seen by Stelzner, then got me on his podcast, which got me into his group and then got me into his conference and then working for him full time. like There was a progression there because of who I knew, not because of what I was actually publishing on my own.
00:12:57
Dan Sanchez
It was a relationship that got those connect that that whole path started. So there's all kinds of opportunities that come just because of who you know and how they trust you.
00:13:02
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:13:08
Ken Freire
Yeah, I'll give you another cool story. This just happened yesterday. I was on a podcast, for some of you don't know, I have my my own personal podcast. It's a passion project that I love helping men kill shame and find their God-given purpose, right? Like that's a lot of what I do. So I was on this guy's podcast. He has a pretty big podcast. And then afterwards we were interviewing, or he we were just talking and he was telling me some stuff that he was going through in his business. And I was like, hey man, I know a guy who actually grew a community within a similar space that you are, and he's crushing it right now.
00:13:42
Ken Freire
What if I just put you guys together? And like all three of us get in a car, and he was like, would you do that for me? I'm like, absolutely. So like I'm literally in a three-way text message with these guys, and I'm just seeing the potential of how much both of their businesses can grow and people can be impacted for the better.
00:13:53
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:00
Ken Freire
Because they're both in the space of like healing and and making sure that people are and men specifically are walking in their God given purpose. And I just got excited to see that like I have no skin in the game on it. But just to see that come to fruition gets me excited.
00:14:16
Ken Freire
Which leads to ultimately what we're talking about here is that when you build these relationships, they help you scale so much more faster than you actually think. It's the intangibles that people don't see.
00:14:29
Ken Freire
And that's what we're really talking about here is like the more people see you, you're not isolated. You're not by yourself. You're not a one man show just kind of growing your your thing on your own. There's so many people supporting you and encouraging you and relating with you.
00:14:43
Ken Freire
That's what this is all about. And ultimately, that that's what may brings significance to our life. It's not the money that you make. It's the relationships that you've built that people are like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go for them.
00:14:56
Ken Freire
And here's the fun part, too. Like even if if you're growing a business and that one, for whatever reason, you transition out of it or you sell it, you still have those relationships that they're going to back you up.
00:15:06
Dan Sanchez
So now we want to talk to you about which people you should be interviewing and what other kind of collaborative opportunities there are when you're doing a video podcast specifically. But before I do, I do have to make a plug. Are you on the edge about starting a podcast?
00:15:20
Dan Sanchez
If you're selling with your expertise, you probably should. But to be sure, we built an assessment just for you. If you go to AIDrivenMarketer.com, slash pod, P-O-D, you can find out. Take the assessment. Find out if the podcast is right for you and see if that's the next step you need to take. Hopefully, if we're creating enough content and pushing towards the podcast, it's probably becoming obvious that you should start one. It's the ultimate tool for building authority. But if not, there are certain and certain things that where a podcast isn't the right choice. So that's why we built this assessment. Go take it to AIDriverMarketer.com slash pod.
00:15:56
Dan Sanchez
So things people you need to be thinking about interviewing if you're trying to build authority. And I usually do these in between even doing, at the beginning, I'm doing all interviews, but then later on in podcasts, I like to sneak in a lot more solo episodes in order to build authority. But here's some people you need to build in the beginning and then every once in a while later on in order to continue building relationships.
00:16:17
Dan Sanchez
The obvious one is like other thought leaders, like the people the people you want to be more like and other influencers. You want to rub arms and rub shoulders with those people, whoever they might be out there. One, they have some tidbits that you can learn from.
00:16:29
Dan Sanchez
They have some influence that you can gain and credibility just from association from having them on.
00:16:29
Ken Freire
Thank
00:16:33
Dan Sanchez
And you want to learn from them and get a better sense for the industry from them. You might even ask them after the interview, like, hey, like you're crushing it here. And I'd like to be more into space too, but from this angle and ask them for advice, like ju generally a one question advice.
00:16:49
Dan Sanchez
so You don't want to ask them too much because you just did a whole interview with them, but they can help you in all kinds of different ways. If you're actually just taking the time to interview them and talk to them. Another one is interviewing gatekeepers.
00:17:00
Dan Sanchez
Like there's a lot of people out there that would love to be featured in whatever media outlet. It might be a big one like Forbes or it might just be a niche industry conference, whatever it might be.
00:17:11
Dan Sanchez
Think about who controls what gets on said articles or on said stage. Interview those people. They are the gatekeepers. Build relationships with them because they're trying to figure out, they're trying to find out who's coming up next on their stages or who's coming up next, who they can interview and who's got what when it comes to the topic that you're talking about. So interview the gatekeepers of all these different things just to build relationships with them. They're also moving around all the time. So if you maintain these relationships, chances are that's going to work out in your favor when it comes to getting in the position to get some of that earned media later on.
00:17:45
Ken Freire
Yeah, absolutely. And and so so many times people will think, oh, I shouldn't reach out to the gatekeepers because I'm going to be kind of blunt here, but they think it's too low level.
00:17:57
Ken Freire
And that is actually the biggest misconception you could have. No one's too low level. It is like sometimes it's that person who's going to give you the doorway. so So don't ever like assume, oh, they're just a manager or they're just an ICP or whatever, right? Like it's or anybody could work.
00:18:17
Ken Freire
And for sure.
00:18:17
Dan Sanchez
That person's usually got good insights too. if They're not out in front of the limelight. So there's, they probably have some things to say that aren't usually said and some hot takes that you should probably hear.
00:18:27
Ken Freire
Exactly. All right. The next type of people that you would want to interview are your dream 100 prospects.
00:18:36
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:18:36
Ken Freire
Think about I
00:18:37
Dan Sanchez
This is kind of an old concept. I forget which book this comes from. Actually, Dream 100. I feel like it's one of those old school direct marketer guys.
00:18:41
Ken Freire
i do.
00:18:43
Dan Sanchez
Which one is it?
00:18:43
Ken Freire
Oh, well I who I learned it from was Russell Brunson. I don't know if he came up with it.
00:18:49
Dan Sanchez
he didn't make it up.
00:18:50
Dan Sanchez
going to look it up.
00:18:51
Ken Freire
I knew you were going to do that.
00:18:52
Dan Sanchez
It wasn't him.
00:18:52
Ken Freire
I do.
00:18:53
Dan Sanchez
It wasn't him. It was someone else.
00:18:55
Ken Freire
It might have been his mentor who who who came up with it.
00:18:58
Dan Sanchez
Now I know who it is. I just can't remember his name because he passed and then he passed it on to his daughter.
00:19:00
Ken Freire
Okay, wait.
00:19:03
Dan Sanchez
Chet Holmes invented the Dream 100 strategy.
00:19:07
Ken Freire
There you go. Google or ChatGPT for the save.
00:19:10
Dan Sanchez
There you go
00:19:10
Ken Freire
I learned it from Russell. You know, well, here's the fascinating part. Even this is a great point is that like when we're talking about thought leadership, when you start to create content, if you're the one who are just rehashing some some content or something like that, you're going remembered by that.
00:19:24
Ken Freire
Like just now,
00:19:24
Dan Sanchez
go.
00:19:25
Ken Freire
I didn't know who chat was right.
00:19:27
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:19:28
Ken Freire
i just knew dream 100 because i learned it from Russell. Right. Now, here's the deal with the dream 100. What you want to do here is like, who are the people that you would want to work with?
00:19:38
Ken Freire
And you can start interviewing those individuals and just kind of have a hit list. Right. Of who you want to. interview, contact, reach out to.
00:19:47
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:19:48
Ken Freire
This is such a great play for you if you're in a B2B space and trying to close more deals. Man, like we were just talking about someone who's thinking about doing this in the higher ed space. Literally, they if they just start interviewing,
00:20:03
Ken Freire
a hundred different schools, right? And finding the right person in that school to to interview, man, they're gonna start getting more leads and deals. It's just gonna happen. Like, because you're you've started the relationship on trust and reciprocity, not on like, hey, can I just show you this new pitch deck, right?
00:20:18
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:20:23
Ken Freire
Like, it's just fascinating how that works.
00:20:23
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:20:25
Dan Sanchez
There is a caveat in that you could, if you're too aggressive in your sales and using a podcast to interview ideal buyers, provided another caveat is that you have your your your annual contract size with clients has to be large enough to justify spending them so this much time on it. Otherwise it doesn't work. And I'm generally looking at like your contract size being, i don't know,
00:20:48
Dan Sanchez
about $40,000 or $50,000 a year in annual contract size. That's kind of the size where it's like it starts to make sense. But even a smaller, you could probably still make it worth it. It takes a lot in the very beginning.
00:21:00
Dan Sanchez
like You have to do a lot of these. You also have to do it in such a way that you're not like hard pitching people at the end of the interview. Otherwise, it becomes a bait and switch. And I've seen people do it.
00:21:07
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:21:08
Dan Sanchez
it's It's so bad. It's like, it makes me want to throw up because- They're literally burning relationships faster than they're actually building them. There are nicer ways of following up where you can kind of like, just kind of like give a hint that's like, Hey, if you need help with this, I'm available without actually going in for like the sale.
00:21:26
Dan Sanchez
But again, the goal is a relationship because relationships are more powerful than going even for a direct sale. Because if you can build goodwill with people and actually build a genuine relationship that usually comes back around in a lot of different ways.
00:21:40
Dan Sanchez
Sometimes it comes back and around in the form of sales directly with the people you're building relationships with, and that's great. Though some people go a little bit too hard on it, so it's worth worth mentioning that.
00:21:51
Dan Sanchez
Another one is interviewing peers in your industry or people who maybe sell to the same audience
00:21:51
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:21:58
Dan Sanchez
but aren't your ideal buyer. They're not gatekeepers and they're not necessarily thought leaders themselves, but they could be strategic partners in some way. If only you had the relationship and got to know them and what they're trying to do, you might be able to figure out a a win-win relationship there. For example, you might be a coach who sells to real estate agents.
00:22:20
Dan Sanchez
So what's stopping you from interviewing people who sell software to real estate agents? Well, nothing. You could interview their people and see what they got going on. You might be able to find some kind of win-win relationship between that software company and you as a real estate coach.
00:22:35
Dan Sanchez
There's probably a win there if you would only take the time to build some relationships with some of those people that are also like selling to and talking to the same audience. There's a lot there.
00:22:44
Ken Freire
yeah you know i i even do it from you know people who who work really close together like for example i would say we are in the space of helping people with their marketing the marketing side right legion developing all that i know a lot of sales coaches
00:22:55
Dan Sanchez
Yes.
00:23:01
Ken Freire
So I've partnered with them and I said, hey man, if you ever want to do a collab, like i our clients, I don't want to be, I've been in sales for 15, 20 years. I don't want to be the sales coach.
00:23:11
Ken Freire
But if you, I'll refer them to you guys. And they're like, dude, that'd be awesome. and I'm like, hey, can you do the can you do the same? There's going be some people that they're going need some marketing expertise. would you be Would we be willing or would we be your preferred partner? And they're like, oh, for sure, dude.
00:23:27
Ken Freire
Well, because we built a relationship, it's so easy for them to say yes, of course. You know, so we have that reciprocity there. it it And the partnership works so well when you're talking about marketing to sales, sales and marketing. I find too many times people are trying to do both, but the reality is that they're not good at both.
00:23:44
Ken Freire
So they should just stick to one or the other in that scenario.
00:23:48
Dan Sanchez
the last one on this list. It's probably not limited to this, it's pretty good list. This is a new one that's become possible recently.
00:23:51
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:23:55
Dan Sanchez
It's something you've been able to do on Instagram for a while, but it just became possible on YouTube, being able to do collaborations. So if you are doing, hopefully if you're doing a podcast, you're doing a video podcast, which means you're distributing on YouTube.
00:24:07
Dan Sanchez
If you interview somebody who has a larger channel than you, or maybe similar size, or even smaller, it doesn't really matter, you can officially link their channel to your channel on that one piece of content so that their little, you know, their their avatar shows up next to yours when it comes to this video.
00:24:25
Dan Sanchez
And it goes out to some of their audience, it goes out to some of your audience.
00:24:26
Ken Freire
Amen.
00:24:28
Dan Sanchez
That's a great way to get crossover. And I'm seeing people do this more and more. I'm starting to see collabs pop up on YouTube. And YouTube is a great way to get seen by audiences that probably wouldn't have found you on Apple.
00:24:39
Dan Sanchez
YouTube has way more distribution power for content than podcasts ever do, which is why we usually later we'll talk about like the two channel rule specifically for growing a podcast.
00:24:50
Dan Sanchez
But for now, just know that YouTube is one of the best ways to get found as a podcast and doing collabs makes it even easier.
00:24:57
Ken Freire
Yeah, dude, that would be awesome for so many people that I would just say, when you're even coming up with your list of 100 or you know just the people that you're you're thinking about, start using that framework of like, ooh, who has a good YouTube list?
00:25:13
Ken Freire
Because there are some people who have a great like LinkedIn profile or or great like Instagram, but they don't have a massive YouTube Dan,
00:25:24
Ken Freire
then let's walk through the process. okay So we kind of gave you the what the why, the what, the how, but now let's like get down to the how. How do you actually use relationships? How do you bring them into the podcast? What do you kind of do?
00:25:36
Dan Sanchez
It's not too hard of a process. It's kind of five steps. You need a list, you need to do outreach, do a pre-interview, interview, and then follow up. So let's break this down one by one. First is the list.
00:25:47
Dan Sanchez
This is, in my opinion, like the fun part because it's always fun to start.
00:25:52
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:52
Dan Sanchez
The hard part's always the middle. right But the fun part is actually coming up and I usually, I almost do this solely in Google sheets. You should do this in a CRM, but for some reason, if I'm creating a list, I'm usually, I'm usually a sprinter.
00:26:06
Dan Sanchez
I'm not like a long game guy. I'm like, I'm going to go do this for 30 people in a row and then take a break. So I'll come up with a list in Google sheets and I'll go and find the names and usually LinkedIn profiles of the people that I want and why I want them. Right. And usually create another little, uh, uh,
00:26:22
Dan Sanchez
column with status of like not reached out to yet reached out to replied joined or booked pre-interview did pre-interview did interview done or follow up, you know, so like I give it some status indicators and then I just build that whole Google sheet.
00:26:37
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:26:42
Dan Sanchez
It's a pretty simple Google sheet with name, LinkedIn badge, a place for notes on the far right, and then the status indicator of them all. And that's, I build that list and that's pretty much it. Do you do anything else with your list?
00:26:52
Ken Freire
Yeah, I do something slightly different with my list, but pretty much that. I i have my list in Google Sheets, right my initial list. But once someone says yes, I actually move them to either like an Asana or Trello board, something where I can walk through the production and where they're at.
00:27:09
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:27:10
Ken Freire
The reason for that is the list. i If I'm using it like a CRM, I want to see how many times I reached out to them. Like, this is this the first outreach, second can outreach, what time?
00:27:17
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:27:19
Ken Freire
Like, I also talk about days. Like, I'm looking at that. So it's helpful. I'm not like spnging spamming them like, you know right away.
00:27:27
Ken Freire
so I do little things like that. That's super helpful. That gets me.
00:27:31
Dan Sanchez
And that's why you're the pro sales guy.
00:27:35
Ken Freire
That stuff, man, I tell people all the time. i get about eight to 10 people who will say yes to me. Who would want to be on a podcast.
00:27:43
Ken Freire
rare, like rarely do I get people who say no, like not at all. And the and like, one out 10 would be like, No, i don't. That's not what I want to do. The other one literally is like, they're like, I can't do it right now. But can you reach out like in September when I'm back from vacation?
00:28:00
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:28:01
Ken Freire
Which is like, okay, cool. And that's the other thing but i have on the list is like, if it's a delay, when I should reach it back out to them.
00:28:08
Dan Sanchez
I had one guest say no to me once. i was like, bro, you're not you're not that famous yet, okay? To be asking me for my audience size. It was a new it was it was when there's this podcast before I had an audience on it. out But and I did make it work and he got on the show anyway.
00:28:25
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, otherwise, yeah, i hardly ever have people say no or not now because I'm busy doing a writing a book or something like that. So I've had people do that, come back later.
00:28:34
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yep.
00:28:34
Dan Sanchez
Very few no's. If anything, you just get ghosted and they don't respond. the next one is outreach. You actually have to do the deed of reaching out to them. I find this part, this is where most people die. This is where people don't like execute, but it's actually one of the simpler parts because your outreach just needs to be really simple. It should never be more than like three sentences. Hey, I'm doing an interview series on X. Would love to have you on my show. Interested.
00:28:57
Dan Sanchez
It's like the simplest outreach script of all time. And there's a bunch of different little variations and little tweaks you can test and do, but like generally that's it. I just go ham and start booking it. And also even better if you know who they are and what you love about them. Like, Oh, I read your book. Oh, I love this thing. You say, then of course, customize it a little bit, but it should only just be a small little tweak so that they know you actually know who they are. Cause there's so many people spamming people on LinkedIn with like mass messages and you can smell those coming from a mile away.
00:29:24
Ken Freire
Yeah. Two things that I would add that that first anchor message of like, do you know something about them is really important. I found that it's super helpful. And then the second thing is don't write a massive paragraph of what your podcast is, what you do, all that fun stuff.
00:29:36
Dan Sanchez
Josh, keep it short.
00:29:40
Ken Freire
Like you're like, get rid of that sales pitch. Just be like, would you be interested in being a guest on the podcast?
00:29:43
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:29:47
Ken Freire
That's it. Like it.
00:29:48
Dan Sanchez
If they want to know about you, they'll just freaking click through the link.
00:29:48
Ken Freire
it
00:29:50
Dan Sanchez
Like, don't introduce yourself.
00:29:51
Ken Freire
Exactly. You don't need to do it.
00:29:53
Dan Sanchez
They don't care who you are.
00:29:55
Ken Freire
Or they'll be like, oh, tell me more. Great. Now you're starting a conversation.
00:29:58
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Gosh.
00:29:59
Ken Freire
But like, don't put it in. oh my gosh, for the love of God. i i see this all the time and it drives me nuts.
00:30:06
Dan Sanchez
You know, I get pitched for people being on this podcast all the time and they just make the same mistake over and over because they automated it.
00:30:06
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:30:12
Dan Sanchez
All of them do. I probably get like five or 10 a day now.
00:30:13
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:30:15
Dan Sanchez
Like it's, it's coming, it's becoming a problem. It's like filling up my inbox. I'm like, I got to change my email now. But it's always way too long. I can tell they've actually never listened to the show, even though it says it takes, uses AI to have listened to a recent episode be like, I love when you and Travis or you and Ken talked about my frigging, no, you haven't.
00:30:35
Dan Sanchez
Y'all lying. It's not a good place to start from.
00:30:38
Ken Freire
I know that's the one. Yeah, for sure. I don't try to use it.
00:30:40
Dan Sanchez
So you can't automate this, essentially.
00:30:42
Ken Freire
You can't automate the outreach. This outreach outreach is specific to just like go do that.
00:30:45
Dan Sanchez
You got to do it manually.
00:30:49
Ken Freire
The like the only caveat i I have added or I will add is if I'm going for like a A-lister or someone who's a lot more famous, I do tend to like put a little soft pitch in there like, hey, would you be interested in this podcast, we get about X amount of downloads or X something to show some credibility.
00:31:09
Ken Freire
But again, it's like, real quick, it's not a long paragraph. It's so that the person would think it's worth it enough for them.
00:31:17
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:31:18
Ken Freire
Because there will be people who ask, like, what's the size of the podcast? what's like What's the audience? And most of the time, those people are a little bit more experts, you know, in the field or in the world.
00:31:28
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:31:29
Ken Freire
So it's like, all right, they're going to want to know that. That's when I add it.
00:31:33
Dan Sanchez
One way, I think the most well-known person I've ever gotten a podcast is someone who's on LinkedIn with like a million followers. So like lots of reach. But I took a lot of time to get to know him because I was showing up in his posts in the comments regularly early. Like as soon as he posted, I was there commenting because I had notifications hit me instantly and he knew what time he posted. But I was showing up in there for weeks, showing up, major comment, major comment. So we'd interacted in the comments multiple times. Eventually I show up in the DMs and I'm asking him for a tip.
00:32:03
Dan Sanchez
He gives a tip. I implement it. I give him feedback on how I implemented it. So like I'm showing that I'm hustling and I'm actually taking the devices seriously. Eventually he starts showing up in my comments because I think he had a system where he was like, okay, if someone's showing up consistently, I'm going to show them some love and give them some comments too.
00:32:19
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:19
Dan Sanchez
And eventually I just shot him a DM like, hey, I'd love to have you on the show. And he said, yes. Great, great guy. But I had also taken time to do that. So some people who have are getting hit up for podcasts all the time, like this particular guy, and it just it just took more time. And if you ever come up with a list of like a bunch of people to interview and some of them are too busy, like that doesn't mean no forever.
00:32:43
Dan Sanchez
It just means you have to try harder and take quite a few extra steps sometimes in order to get their attention so that then you can make the pitch and them not just ignore you. So almost anything's possible. You just have to get creative, be patient and be generous and compassionate. Know that their inboxes get crowded if you're going after someone who's more like B list, A list.
00:33:04
Ken Freire
Yeah. Well, and one key thing there before we move on, because you built the relationship, people would be more likely to say yes.
00:33:13
Dan Sanchez
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:14
Ken Freire
And I just don't want people to miss that. But like, there was some reciprocity there that people are like, Oh, yeah, for sure, dude. Dan's asking me? Yeah, why not? You know, like, it's natural. There was some positive, you know, whatever thing in the bank, right? A positive coin in the bank for people to say, Yeah, I want to hang out with Dan. Let's do this.
00:33:33
Dan Sanchez
I probably could have kept developing that relationship. I let it go after a while, but he even bought my kid's book when I was promoting it. The AI or the, not the AI one, the marketing for kids book. I was like, man, that could have been something more if I would have kept that relationship going.
00:33:46
Dan Sanchez
should probably reach back out to him again.
00:33:47
Ken Freire
Bro, you should.
00:33:47
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:33:48
Ken Freire
this is your This is your sign. This is God's name.
00:33:50
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, it's a sign. All right. So next step after outreach, of course, is the pre-interview. And if your goal is, related you don't you don't have to do a pre-interview. Shoot, most of the podcasts I get invited to speak on, like very few of them actually have a pre-interview. But I'm this kind of person that if I just show up, you just started asking me questions about marketing, AI, or any of this stuff that we're talking about on the pod, like I'm ready to go. like Shoot, let's go. Yeah.
00:34:15
Ken Freire
Okay.
00:34:16
Dan Sanchez
But if your goal is relationship building, having a pre-interview is actually a really good thing. It slows everything down. If you're reaching out to people who aren't normally on podcasts and a pre-interview is really helpful for them. And it gives it allows you more time and more touch points to actually build relationships with them.
00:34:32
Dan Sanchez
And you can even use it to kind of get to know them outside of what their expertise is and maybe even get to know them outside of it. You know, ask them how they're doing. What's what's some good things, some good, bad things maybe going on their life, some things they they they might need some help with. Depends on like who they are and like what position of authority they're in and all that kind of stuff. So you have to feel it out. But the pre-interview is where a lot of the relational work comes in.
00:34:54
Dan Sanchez
How do you use pre-interviews, Ken?
00:34:56
Ken Freire
Oh, it's exactly that way. i built the relationships. And also, try give them really good clarity on what this process is going to look like.
00:35:02
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yep.
00:35:05
Ken Freire
Because especially if they're like really efficient with their time, they don't want it to to be like, what's going on? i it's It's almost logistical at some point too, like near the end of it. I'm like, hey, by the way, after this pre-interview, this is what's going to happen. I'm going to send you the link. It's going to give you the Calendly. It's going to do this. And then after the interview, I'm going to do this, this. Like I lay it all out for them.
00:35:27
Ken Freire
So they're never wondering. And I tell them like if by the time we record, it's going to three to four weeks before it gets launched. Because I have that much in the pipeline. Man, it just gives so many people peace.
00:35:40
Ken Freire
And then actually, the reason why I tell them how long it takes for it to actually the podcast to get launched, it then forces them to say, oh, I want this podcast to come out sooner.
00:35:51
Ken Freire
Let me book a time with you faster. So it's it's been like super helpful for me when I'm interviewing people. Because what especially if you start interviewing people who's got busy schedules, they're like, oh, I'm three weeks, six weeks out.
00:36:05
Ken Freire
Well, I'm like, hey, man, if you're six weeks out and you want to promote your book, and you're like, I'm going to be four weeks out. So that's like 10 weeks. He's like, oh, for sure. let's Let's do it a little bit sooner. Let me squeeze you in in two weeks. I'm like, perfect. you know That's how I used a pre-interview too.
00:36:22
Dan Sanchez
So we've gone this whole episode on a show called the AI driven marketer. So I'd be remiss without talking about how AI can help us power this whole thing. I've actually talked about the first couple of steps here, the lists and the outreach with an avoided talking about AI because this is where people freaking screw it up.
00:36:40
Dan Sanchez
AI has its place, but you should not use it in the list building part, especially in the beginning and the outreach part. This is what like AI is ruining this part. Do it manually.
00:36:52
Dan Sanchez
It will go better for you. Maybe you can start automating pieces of it and using AI and pieces of it later on down the line, once you've done a lot and you kind of have a system where it's like, okay, i just, I know I run through this process like this every time and AI can do it.
00:37:05
Dan Sanchez
That's a great. In the beginning for your first hundred episodes, do not use AI for this stuff. Do it manually. It just, everybody using a like using AI to do it really fast is making a huge mistake.
00:37:16
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:37:16
Dan Sanchez
But AI is super helpful for this next step of the process after the pre-interview. After the pre-interview, you have to actually start planning the episode. One thing you can do is use a tool that I created a long time ago with Susan Diaz.
00:37:31
Dan Sanchez
There's a collaboration right there. See? that I did from building relationships with this show. We built a tool called My Showrunner. You just go to myshowrunner.com. It's a custom GPT.
00:37:42
Dan Sanchez
You can either use a prebuilt custom GPT or take the whole instructions, build your own, customize it, use it to help you actually prep for the interview. And AI is really helpful for the pre-production process.
00:37:53
Ken Freire
Thank
00:37:53
Dan Sanchez
So I pretty much use AI solely or not solely, but for a lot of the pre-production for every single episode, including this one, helped me build out my list, make sure to think and check all the different ways we could be using relationships.
00:38:05
Dan Sanchez
I had most of it down for this one, but it actually filled in a few that I was like, oh yeah, I forgot about that. Specifically strategic partnerships, AI, chat, GPT was like, don't forget this one. I'm like, oh yeah, I've talked about that before.
00:38:15
Dan Sanchez
I just forgot. But it can help a lot with post pre-interview before you get into the interview, or you can just record the pre-interview and have a process for taking the transcript from the pre-interview, giving it to AI to help you think through the angle, how going frame it, how you're gonna title it, how you're going to even questions you're going to ask.
00:38:34
Dan Sanchez
You might have a few questions you have in your mind already, but chat GPT or whatever AI system you're using can help you flesh out those questions and you can pick the best ones out. and then send it to your contact. So this is where AI really comes in the process and speeds up the whole thing.
00:38:48
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:38:50
Dan Sanchez
Anything you would
00:38:51
Ken Freire
I was just going to say, i give i like I do the latter where I have my Fathom note taker in there. I know there's Otter. There's a bunch of them out there. That's the one I use because I've just gotten comfortable with it.
00:38:59
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:39:02
Ken Freire
I literally just copy and paste the transcript and then I start walking through it. And it helps me because I'm more present when I'm doing the pre-interview. I'm not looking down.
00:39:10
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:39:11
Ken Freire
I'm not writing stuff. I'm not taking notes. I'm just like asking the right questions of like trying to find the angle to the episode. And it's super helpful for me. I will say going back, I'm just going to challenge you a little bit on the list and outreach and how I use AI.
00:39:26
Ken Freire
i don't use ai on outreach, but for the list, once I create my list, i ask AI if there are other people based off of this list that I should add to it.
00:39:35
Dan Sanchez
Okay. That's fair. That's fair.
00:39:37
Ken Freire
That's the only that's the only time i I would do it.
00:39:39
Dan Sanchez
But you got to build your initial list.
00:39:41
Ken Freire
You do have to build it. and And here's why i think it's really important. And I just wanted to address this from a sales perspective. AI still doesn't have the intuition of like exactly who you're looking for.
00:39:52
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:39:53
Ken Freire
So when you let AI build your list, the problem is that it's going to give you a bunch of generic stuff. You may not like it fully, and you're just going to be weird. It needs some sort of input.
00:40:03
Ken Freire
So you giving it the right input can help a little bit. But for the outreach, i don't I've tried it. It doesn't work. I actually burned a few relationships doing automated ai outreach.
00:40:13
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:40:14
Ken Freire
And I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing that again. right so like I cut that up. all right. After pre-interview, now we have the actual interview. Dan, walk us through this.
00:40:24
Ken Freire
this i mean, it's pretty simple. It's just asking great questions.
00:40:26
Dan Sanchez
It is pretty simple, but I think a lot of people don't realize that there's a few different steps to an interview other than the interview itself. And it's funny, after working for Sweetfish, I had to train a lot of new podcast hosts. im like, okay, here's the steps, baby steps. First, they jump on the call. Like you both end up in a Zoom meeting or like in here, we're in Zencastra. Sometimes it's Riverside.
00:40:46
Dan Sanchez
It's up to you as a host to actually make the guest comfortable by showing like, hey, welcome. I'm going to walk you through the process before we record. Here's the process. And then you actually have a pre-recording process.
00:41:04
Ken Freire
Thank
00:41:09
Dan Sanchez
usually do a sound check and a few other checks. I make sure their internet's good. My internet's good. Everything's taken care of. i have a checklist of all the things I need to do on my computer, like putting it on, do not disturb.
00:41:19
Dan Sanchez
have a, have a sign I turn out on the hallway. So my kids quiet down a little bit, all the kinds of things. And we walked through the list and I'm like, okay, I'm go about to record. So that's like, there's a, there's a pre-process before you even record.
00:41:29
Dan Sanchez
So that we, when you record, you're, you have walked through a checklist. They know you're on there, that you're taking care of them and that you really sound like, you know what you're doing, right? When you have a checklist that you walk through that like everybody gets more comfortable.
00:41:44
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:41:44
Dan Sanchez
Then there's the interview itself. There's a bunch of different ways to approach an interview. I'm not going to cover any of them right now. I think most people kind of get it. If you listen to podcasts, you've heard a lot of interviews go down and there's Again, a bunch of ways to slice it and dice it, whether you do a cold open, you jump into the conversation, or we record that afterwards. There's a bunch of different options.
00:42:04
Dan Sanchez
But that you do the interview, interview finishes, and then you have the process after the interview, the post-interview process. If you're building relationships, actually learned this little tip from Timmy Bauer. He's like, along along the line somewhere in the pre-interview, or if you book a Calendly meeting for the pre-interview, you want to get their cell phone number because you want to follow up with somebody and build relationship. You want to become text message friends with them, which is a different level of relationship.
00:42:29
Dan Sanchez
And you can use this process to get on texting basis by saying, hey, I want to follow up with you. I'll let you know in the episode goes live. is this year Is this the right cell phone number for you? right And then when the episode goes live, you text them the link rather than emailing to them, rather than Most shows don't even follow up on this process. But during the post interview, you ask them, you tell them some great things that they said during the interview, you make sure you got their cell phone number. And then you walk through your post interview checklist, whatever you might have on there.
00:42:56
Dan Sanchez
And when is there anything else you add to the interview process in the pre or post?
00:43:01
Ken Freire
In any pre or the interview process itself, the right before we hit record, I learned this from from a friend when we were doing the Full Focus podcast, the Focus on This.
00:43:12
Ken Freire
He would always tell people whenever he hit record, don't panic. There's going to be a countdown. Because if people are not if people are new to podcasting, they freak out by the countdown.
00:43:22
Dan Sanchez
That's interesting. I've never had that on my list.
00:43:24
Ken Freire
So that one I picked up on.
00:43:25
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, that's good.
00:43:26
Ken Freire
the The other one that I've actually done that's really important for a smooth transition is that most people start a podcast if they don't have a good cold open of like, hey, welcome to the show, my guest.
00:43:39
Ken Freire
And then they ask a silly question like, how are you doing today? And then they're like, good. You know, like it's it's this weird thing. i actually prep my guest beforehand on how we're going handle the introduction.
00:43:51
Ken Freire
And like, I'm like, hey, here's the question I'm gonna ask. you have an answer for that? Cool, what's your answer? i hear it. And then I'm like, because what I'm doing, trying to do is find a transition to it, to the actual conversation.
00:44:01
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:02
Ken Freire
I think that part is really important because it's like public speaking for a lot of people. They have a really hard time with the intro and they don't know how to navigate it. So giving them that space that like, I got you, I'm backing you up history is super good.
00:44:18
Dan Sanchez
You know what's funny? is i've I've gone through different phases of doing different things, and there's a really common thing that like some... I don't know what to call them. like People who are a little bit schnoody about podcasting, they're like, you're...
00:44:30
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:44:30
Dan Sanchez
you're you're wasting your audience's time by asking silly questions like, Oh, welcome to the show. And then they say, thank you. You know what i was saying? I found if I, if you can prep them for this, but I found if you don't give them the chance to say, thank you for having me on the show, they will force it in awkwardly when it's their turn time to talk after you've asked the question.
00:44:39
Ken Freire
yeah
00:44:51
Dan Sanchez
And it's almost always way more awkward that way. so I just, I'm just like, welcome to the show. They say, thank you. We move on. And it's like, it's so short that I just don't really care. Yeah. But people who are like into like more heavily edited podcasts who are usually like crafting narratives and really care, like really care about that stuff.
00:45:08
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, I don't know. Michael Selzner does it so like And he's got way more podcast followers than most of the people who get snooty about podcasts. So I'm like, I think it's fine.
00:45:16
Ken Freire
Exactly.
00:45:18
Dan Sanchez
But people will like, it's it's one of those funny things. Like they will say thank you for having me on the show if you do not give them a chance to do it.
00:45:24
Ken Freire
Yeah. and And that's what
00:45:25
Dan Sanchez
I don't even have to train them for it. I know they're always going to say the same thing. As soon as you say, welcome to the show, they will say, thanks for having me on every time.
00:45:33
Ken Freire
Yeah. Oh, the last thing that I do personally, this is actually in the pre-interview. i when I send them, I actually send them the questions beforehand of like, hey, here's the questions I'm going ask them. And this is really important to find out from your guests.
00:45:48
Ken Freire
I say, hey, do you want me to stick really strict to this? Are you okay with me bunny trailing and asking follow-up questions? There's some speakers who are really good at follow-up.
00:45:59
Ken Freire
There are others who are not good. And I have learned to mitigate a lot of editing in post-production by just asking that simple question because I'm constantly like saying, oh, I send them the questions and they just want me to follow this.
00:46:14
Ken Freire
Cool. I'm going to stick to this. That's just been helpful for for quite a bit of podcast guests that I've had.
00:46:21
Dan Sanchez
I would never give somebody that option. If you're not okay with follow, follow up, you do not want to be on my show. This is the game for me. The first question was the tee up and I'm like, I, I don't know.
00:46:31
Dan Sanchez
like I do tell them that that is part of my pre-production process of like, Hey, this is how this is. This, these are the guidelines, but we're going to deviate from these. I might even skip a question. So be prepared for that.
00:46:42
Ken Freire
Oh, for sure. there But there are some people who like, again, i'm I'm thinking about people who they might be interviewing them that they might just not be ready for follow up. It depends on the, you know, my my other podcast, like the types of people that I interview, I have to be mindful about certain things.
00:46:51
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:59
Ken Freire
So I have to be like, asking them like, what are the boundaries? What can I not ask? What can I ask?
00:47:03
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Sensitive topic.
00:47:05
Ken Freire
It's a sensitive topic.
00:47:05
Dan Sanchez
So that could happen. If you're an enterprise company, you really have to be sensitive because legal is going to come after you and they're going to tear you apart if you don't.
00:47:11
Ken Freire
Exactly.
00:47:13
Dan Sanchez
So yeah, there's, there's times, there's times. That's just not what I do for mine. And the last step of course is the followup game, which is where most relationships never happen because you did all the work of teeing it up and then you don't actually follow up and build a relationship.
00:47:16
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:47:26
Dan Sanchez
The easiest way is actually just following up with the podcast episodes, why you want to get their text number, their number so you can text them when it actually goes live. I'd say 80 to 90% of the podcasts I've been on don't follow up at all when the podcast goes live.
00:47:44
Dan Sanchez
I have to go find it afterwards if I ever find it at all. That's sad.
00:47:48
Ken Freire
That is it.
00:47:49
Dan Sanchez
Not even email, nothing. I just, I'm like, wait, what happened to that one show was on? And there's probably a lot that I forgot. So I never even had a chance to promote it or get it, get it out there or give it any extra love or share it on my socials.
00:48:02
Dan Sanchez
So it's too bad for those shows. But at the same time, I get it. It's hard. Like you're, if you're hustling on a podcast, you got episodes to do. And once you schedule it, you're like, that's done. I'm already moving on to the next one or two. So I get it. But if you want to build relationships, this is like all of this work that we've done for this one person is literally just the beginning of where the late relationship begins.
00:48:22
Dan Sanchez
The game now is in the follow-up. And I think this is where you could probably speak to it more because you're much better at this than I am. As much many times as I've done it in a podcasting rhythm, you've probably done a lot better at the follow-up.
00:48:36
Ken Freire
Yeah, so so a couple of things on follow-up. You see, now that you're you're bringing up the whole thing, and the whole process, I'm like thinking about all the little things I do. During the interview, I actually have a time where I try to find a funny personal story.
00:48:50
Dan Sanchez
Hmm.
00:48:51
Ken Freire
One, it lines up the mood of the conversation. But the other reason is because once I have that personal thing, this is my my my personality and Dan will know this to the T when I say it. But once I follow up with them, I actually will start a conversation via text and I'll send funny memes based off of the personal story that they shared with me.
00:49:10
Dan Sanchez
Yes, you were the meme friend for sure.
00:49:12
Ken Freire
I am like, I am meme king. I will send a meme, a gif, a reel. Like, I'm like, hey dude, I was thinking about you the other day. And I have so many friends friendships and relationships that I've built just by sending memes and reels, dude.
00:49:24
Ken Freire
But I am now known as this guy's like, oh, this guy's not gonna but bother me and asking tips all the time. He wants to build a relationship. So then when I do ask,
00:49:34
Ken Freire
And I haven't asked for them. They're very quick to respond. So I typically try to do that. Again, I'm a little bit more systematic. I try to do that within like 24 hours of me recording.
00:49:41
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:49:45
Ken Freire
So it's not just this like gone with the wind kind of deal. Then I'm real clear about the process that I'm working through with the podcast of like where they're at. And then somewhere within two or three days of me sending that meme or real, I'll actually text them and say, hey, dude, I've been thinking about something you said on the podcast.
00:50:06
Ken Freire
Can I help you with that? Or I think I know someone who might be able to help you with that. Would you be interested in jumping on a conversation to talk about that more?
00:50:13
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:50:14
Ken Freire
And it it it's a longer process, but man, again, some of this is a sales process, but other times it's just a relationship process.
00:50:20
Dan Sanchez
Yep. Yeah.
00:50:22
Ken Freire
And just building relationships with people, dude, it's awesome.
00:50:22
Dan Sanchez
You might, even if you're just doing it generally to build relationship, great. But some some of these things, like if you're trying to look for a strategic partners, you might have something specific you're looking for. So you have to think like, okay, post once this goes live and I give my digital high five, it's going live, we've shared it.
00:50:40
Dan Sanchez
What are you doing afterwards? Most people, if if you just sit down with a pen and paper or even have ChatGPT help you, you can think of like some touch points that can follow afterwards. And this is where ChatGPT can give you ideas of a process to build in order to systematically enter interview gatekeepers or interview thought leaders and how you can follow up and strengthen the relationship afterwards. If you just sit down with pen and paper and think about it for 15 minutes, you could probably come up with some awesome ideas and then give it to ChatGPT to flesh it out even more.
00:51:08
Dan Sanchez
But you have to have a game plan for after the interview. Because again, the interview is just the beginning. It just, you have now opened the door and you have to walk through it. And the walking through happens in the weeks and months after you've opened the interview.
00:51:17
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:51:22
Dan Sanchez
Because now you're on texting basis and have a good reason. They know you, they're starting to like you, but it can die there really easy.
00:51:29
Ken Freire
Yeah. And that's where a couple other final tips that I would say here is if you're using a CRM to keep tabs of these relationships, keep tabs of them that way and know have like a weekly or biweekly follow up.
00:51:41
Ken Freire
It doesn't have to be long. It's like, again, I'm building a relationship, so I'm not so pitching them anything.
00:51:44
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:51:46
Ken Freire
I'm actually following them on social media if I see something that, yeah.
00:51:46
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:51:49
Dan Sanchez
That's a big one. It's an easy way to add a touch point.
00:51:51
Ken Freire
At a touch point, if I see something, i'm like I'm liking it, I'm commenting on it.
00:51:51
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:51:55
Ken Freire
But also if I see something that they need help with, I'll actually shoot them a DM or i'll text them and be like, hey, dude, I saw you posted this. I know a guy or I know someone or hey, here's what I've done. Let me know if it's helpful for you.
00:52:07
Ken Freire
The other thing is that if you have an, I don't know about Android, But I know from a smart from an Apple, what I typically do is I'll have like a strategic partners list on my contact list, yeah, on my iPhone.
00:52:19
Dan Sanchez
On your iPhone. Yeah.
00:52:21
Ken Freire
So like I'll look through it regularly and be like, oh, who's on this list that I need to reach out to or connect with? Right. So sometimes it's more organic, like I'm not systematic, like every two weeks I'm hitting them up, but I'm just looking at I haven't talked to this person in a while.
00:52:35
Ken Freire
And I'll just shoot him a text and be like, dude, what's up? What's going on? And how you doing? What's happening? Anything I could be praying for you about? Whatever it is, they're just like, oh, I'm a i'm thinking about them.
00:52:43
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:52:45
Ken Freire
People love when you are thinking about them or you're encouraging them.
00:52:46
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:52:50
Ken Freire
And I would say this is just as much for an A-lister, B-lister, whoever it is. most Most of the time, people are having a hard time. And they are struggling, dude. Like even business might be going well. Their personal life might not be going well. Like something's going on.
00:53:05
Ken Freire
And i again, coming from my faith background, there's a lots of times I send this stuff to people. I'm like, hey, dude, I'm thinking about you. I've been praying for you today. Here's what I'm praying for you about. Or, hey, man, im just I just thought about you. I'm really excited. I'm really glad that you're doing this. You bring so much impact to whatever. I'm sending an encouraging note.
00:53:24
Ken Freire
It's just like, again, I'm sending memes. I'm sending encouraging things. I want people to know like I'm for them. Even when life is getting going hard, I'm going to be there. I want to be pastor. I want to take care of them. This is just all the stuff that you can do in follow-up and building relationships so that when you do have an ask,
00:53:40
Ken Freire
it just becomes a whole lot easier.
00:53:43
Dan Sanchez
And this has been a long episode, but probably one of the best ones because it's such a powerful medium. And it's one of the most undertapped marketing channels of all time, which is build genuine relationships with people because that's what builds trust. People buy from people they know, like, and trust. If you can do it individually, one relationship at a time, it is a long game that no one's going to, people going to be playing it less because of AI. And that's exactly why we need to lean into it.
00:54:10
Dan Sanchez
Because while everyone's trying to automate everything with JGBT, you need to be building genuine relationships. This is like, this is almost the anti-AI book, but it's not because we want to use AI to the best of its ability, but we also want to double down on the things AI can never do. Relationships is one of the best ones of all time, always will be, never will change. So it's worth doing a longer episode on it.