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The Controversy of Resident Evil 5 and 6 || Resident Evil Month
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After their run ins with the dreaded podcast bots, a new organisation calling themselves the Brolly Corporation have emerged from the shadows seeking to destroy indie podcasts once and for all. It's up to Satsunami and the PodPack Collective to stop them by discussing the iconic gaming franchise Resident Evil! Welcome to Resident Evil Month!
In this episode, Satsunami is joined by resident co-host Adam to take on two of the most contentious entries into the franchise: Resident Evil 5 and 6! But what makes these games so controversial? Is there still some good in them? And what will really happen after 7 minutes?! All of this and more in this episode of Resident Evil Month!
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Transcript
Aftermath of Broly Corporation's Fall
00:00:03
Speaker
After the fall of the Broly Corporation, reports started popping up all over the world of bots trying to sell their services in the podcast Black Market.
Uncovering the Podcast Black Market
00:00:12
Speaker
My investigation took me to places all over the world where little did I know I would encounter an old friend who knew all too well about the threat that they posed.
Adam's Return and Broly Corporation's Deeds
00:00:22
Speaker
I'm back. Adam? I thought you went missing after Terminator month. Well, technically everything was hunky-dory until I heard about a little Kickstarter campaign from the Broly Corporation. You know, one thing led to another, and after some digging, I found out their nefarious secret.
The Facade of Triangle Broly Corporation
00:00:37
Speaker
Organic promotions, thousands of fake views, Red Panda City was only the beginning. Just look at this. Hmm. Triangle Broly Corporation. Legally distinct from the other one. Pinky Promise.
New Adventure Against Broly Threat
00:00:50
Speaker
Do Not Steal. Damn them!
00:00:52
Speaker
So what do we do now? Delve through another adventure rich with puzzles, horror and intrigue? Or maybe we can... Did you just punch that boulder? Pretty sick, right? Who needs guns when you've got these guns?
00:01:07
Speaker
Good Lord, you could bench press a sandwich shop with those up there. Anyway, that's beside the point. We've got to nip this issue in the bud as soon as possible. I'm way ahead
Adam Breadfield's Comedic Identity
00:01:17
Speaker
of you. But before we begin, there's a few ground rules I've got to lay out. First, we go in with double. No, no, no, no, no no triple the explosions. We're going to make the Spencer Mansion incident look like a firework in a hurricane. Two more bombastic locations. The Pandalurians need to be kept confused long enough not to question plot holes. Aha. And the final thing?
Introduction to Resident Evil Month
00:01:37
Speaker
I want you to call me by my codename, Adam Breadfield. Nope. Absolutely not. Nope. No way. Albert Whiskor?
00:01:44
Speaker
Civ? Ah? Ooh, ooh, ooh. What about Pies Nivens? Oh, Ingrid Bunnigan? Ah, this is going to be a long mission, isn't it? Oh, yes it is. Welcome to Resident Evil Month.
00:01:59
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Resident Evil
Adam's Transformation Story
00:02:04
Speaker
Month. My name is Satsunami and joining me today is none other than, well, unfortunately, I have to call him by his contractually obligated name, is none other than Adam Bredfield. Adam, welcome back.
00:02:17
Speaker
Oh, it is wonderful to be back and I feel all fresh just with this new name and everything. Oh, it just feels right, doesn't it? Yeah, I've got to ask because, you know, the sandwich is looking a lot more muscly recently. Talk us through your workouts.
00:02:32
Speaker
Well, basically, given that I am a sandwich, obviously, obviously, and this is, sorry to go peel behind the scenes here, but obviously, once recording's done, Satsu has to stick me up in the freezer. I am a sandwich. My shelf life is limited, you know, so he's going to stuff me deep in that freezer. But, you know, being in the freezer gives you plenty of time to focus, work on your core, work on your biceps. I can lift all those frozen pizzas that you keep in there, all those chicken breasts, whatever else you've got in your freezer. For anyone coming into this episode for the first time, As a first time listener, please for the love of God, look at his avatar
Collaborative Resident Evil Discussions
00:03:02
Speaker
as a sandwich. Better I think when you'd have no clue what's going on. Yeah, you're right. Just ignore what I said. No context. He's just a talking sandwich. I'm a red panda. Let's get into this.
00:03:12
Speaker
um Of course. But yeah, Adam, before we begin, most importantly, how are you doing tonight? I'm doing all right, thanks. It's nice to be back on. I can't imagine, I do wonder how many people have you asked to talk about these two games?
00:03:24
Speaker
How many people would just slam the phone down in anger, you know, and never talk to you again? But luckily, I'm one the few people who's actually quite excited to come and talk about these two games. So you know your friends your supporting cast well, I'll say that. Yes, you are indeed my rock that's not going to be punched into lava pit of this podcast because this is a PodPak collaboration
Controversial Resident Evil Games
00:03:44
Speaker
month, of course. We have got some amazing podcasters, creators and people on here this month. We have got Luke from the Howdy Beans podcast. We have got Joey from the Game Club podcast. We, of course, have yourself, Adam, fantastic co-host and friend. I should have said friend first because that's more important than... I feel like my name is starting to stick out here as the sore thumb. So it's like, got all these amazing people and then I just fished Adam out of the freezer. And guest starring Adam!
00:04:11
Speaker
Woo! And last but certainly not least, next week we will indeed have the amazing Dan from Casting Views talking about Resident Evil 7 and 8, which is going to be terrifying but also fantastic.
Resident Evil 5 and 6 Reception
00:04:25
Speaker
But this week, of course, we are diving into...
00:04:29
Speaker
Some of the more contentious games of the series, and going back to something you said there about the picking and choosing of this month, I went to the pod pack and I said, right guys, who wants to be involved in this month? Who wants to take what game? Luke immediately said, want to talk about the Toon 3 remake. Joey wanted to talk about the 4 remake. Dan, for some reason, wanted to take seven and eight and then while he was playing them he started shouting at me saying why did you make me play these games these are terrifying i apologize because i was also screaming but then there was a sandwich shaped hole as of and i was like who am i gonna get to play these games and then i was telling you about the month and everything and then you graciously accepted my bombardment of pleas messages e-begging you know that kind of thing so yes thank you so much because today we are indeed going to be talking about Resident Evil 5 and 6, which, Adam, is it right to say these are the black zombie sheep of
Spin-offs and Adaptations
00:05:28
Speaker
the franchise? Well, I think definitely for the most part. I think that'll be most people's impression, certainly of 6.
00:05:34
Speaker
Five certainly as well, but I think Five enjoys a slightly more positive consensus around it, although people still don't like Five. But certainly, I think if you were to take both these games, this is probably seen as a bit of the nadir, honestly, of the Resident Evil month, I would say, in the popular opinion anyway. Whenever you think of the silliness of the franchise, I mean, obviously you think of the films, and of course, the other day I finally watched Welcome to Raccoon City. Have you ever seen that, by the way, before we get into this? I have not, be honest. It's free on Prime.
00:06:04
Speaker
and Anyway, long story short, I feel as if there's only one scene that's absolutely hilarious and then the rest of it can just be
Controversy Surrounding Resident Evil 5
00:06:11
Speaker
binned. It is very baffling how much they have fumbled around the Resident Evil series outside of the games. I mean, you've got your bad games, of course, as well, but I would probably limit that to the spin-off games where they tried something different and you think, well, they're not trying to capitalise on the core series, the numbered games, and also the Netflix series, but we don't talk about the Netflix series. Yeah, for these ones, I remember when especially the fifth game came out, and I don't know about you, but I remember seeing this, and I think it was HMV. This is how long ago it was. It was an HMV, and they had clips from Five all over the gaming section. And for some reason, it was, you know, the intro that they play in the game. And it's quite... I have to say, you know, the guy who gets the parasite shoved down his throat and everything and he's squirming and then he bursts and turns into a big grubbly monster. It's quite violent to show to the public. I'm not going to lie. But for the sixth one, I would say that I found out about his reputation before I actually looked into it. had no interest in playing Resident Evil 6 before that. I think a mutual friend had told me that they tried playing it. They got stuck. in a car, and it's like they had to do a quick time event, but you could just leave it and you didn't really have to do anything. The game just waited until you pressed the button. So it was infamous from day one, and we will get into that because the gaming landscape of 2012 when 6 came out was absolutely brutal for that kind of
Shift in Resident Evil's Genre
00:07:42
Speaker
thing. But switching it back onto you, what was your first exposure, see, to 5 and 6?
00:07:48
Speaker
Well, Resident Evil 5 is the first Resident Evil game I ever played. This is actually kind of what got me into the series. So I remember when this game was coming out. So obviously it came out in 2009. So I must have started seeing promotional stuff for it, either the back end of 2008 or kind early 2009. this was a time when, so I was in my late teens at this point, kind of getting towards the end of high school. I was getting much more into sort of, well, I say much more into video. I was always into video games. I was getting maybe a wider perspective on video games. Like I was maybe more interested to try genres that I hadn't before. mean, obviously was of that age where perhaps I was looking for slightly more mature experiences, you know, in gaming and everything than maybe what I'd played previously. Obviously I really enjoyed shooters. mean, know even at that time i enjoyed so i remember seeing the promotional stuff right and i remember was quite into the watching lot of the e3 stuff from that year whatever the e3 whether it was 2009 2008 i can't remember whatever the one before the game was released i was really into watching that remember watching the demo for five and hearing a lot about it and being really interested in it like the setting and everything i thought looked really cool so when it came out i'm pretty sure i didn't buy it but i'm pretty sure i rented it showing my age there as well remember renting I didn't play 6 until a good few years after out, probably like 4 5 to be honest.
00:09:03
Speaker
but and i have subsequently played every other mainline res and evil game you know after that so it definitely wasn my entry point with regards to sick i didn't play six till a good few years after it came out probably like four or five years to be honest As with you, I also knew the game by its reputation before I played it. So I didn't go in with maybe particularly high hopes. So I do think that clouded my view of the game before going in. I didn't really go in with an unbiased opinion because I kind of knew what the consensus was on it. So a little bit similar to you, but I was very much into 5 at the time. It was very exciting to play it when it came out. I had a friend, i remember, who played it, and you know that way when you go over to a friend's house when you're in school and they're playing a game and you're like, oh, what's this game? And they're like, oh, it's the game X, game Y, but in this case, of course, it was Resident Evil 5, and I think They must have been playing the Mercenaries mode. Because, and again, I could be totally wrong, but I'm convinced they were playing as Albert Wesker. So I'm assuming that's the Mercenary mode or something like that. They the really stupid pistol. Do you remember this as like the really long pistol?
00:10:10
Speaker
I don't remember the long pistol. I mean, that does sound like Mercenaries mode, to be honest with you. Which was...
2009 Gaming Landscape and Resident Evil 5
00:10:15
Speaker
Oh, good. Did Mercenaries mode start in... I don't even know if it started in 5 Mercenaries mode or it started... before that but certainly like i know it was becoming a bigger thing i'm pretty sure certainly by six it was i'm pretty sure as well it wasn't five but yeah sounds like it i would say in terms of the gameplay that was my first exposure to it and it's one of these games that again you see it in passing you realize how popular it is but again i had no real interest at the time in horror games or anything like that so i was like oh that looks like a cool game moving on back to sonic Although, sorry, of technically back then I would have been into Call of Duty and Halo and, oh, gritty manly games.
00:10:53
Speaker
That's as said, because Resident Evil 5 came out in 2009, didn't it? Yep, it did. I think, oh, I think that kind of traditional, when the game's originally got released October, it? It's tough time, September, October. I'm pretty sure it was around then. Yeah, so, at least for me personally, I think I was getting towards the end of high school and everything, and I don't know, I was just a scaredy-cat guy and want to play a game with his zombies, you know, that... yeah It sounds weird to say because at the same time, there was a lot of similar games that came out, like Left 4 Dead 2 especially, and some particular games that we will talk about later on, but... It seemed as if it was quite similar to a lot of games that were coming out at the time, and I was more interested in co-op games and, you know, more action shooter games than this particular one, which I know is ironic because this is literally the one where someone punches a
Community Opinions on Resident Evil 5 and 6
00:11:43
Speaker
bolt. into a thing of lava so yeah it was interesting but before we dive into this because i think we both have a lot to say about both of these games so i reached out to our amazing pandalurians and asked them what they thought about this game so adam are you ready to hear some of the tales that you are about to hear
00:12:02
Speaker
but from the lovely listeners at home lay them on me so I asked friend of the channel and fellow pod pack member Dan from casting views about it he said oh man it was so long ago it wasn't five where you had the companion whose AI was frustrating as hell to which I of course responded that's the one and then he said oh and six has an inappropriate cover we will get on to the inappropriate cover don't you worry laughing Yes, the infamous giraffe, isn't it?
00:12:30
Speaker
That's it. That's the one. Yes, we're we'll touch on it. I shouldn't say touch on it, sorry. You can touch on it if you want. I'll stand back. I do not want that pair of it on. but Yeah, the next comment comes from Highscore High Stakes Podcast who says RE5 is an excellent game. It refined the RE4 formula and gave it co-op whilst the horror elements took a massive hit.
00:12:51
Speaker
It was really fun to play. RE6 can get in the bin though. Too long, boring and it had nothing memorable at all. Designed by committee at its worst. Fellow PodPak member Seismic Cinema said, played av five of my brother wasn't a big fan to be honest hadn't played any other game before but it seemed like an action game with none of the horrorer associated with resident evil i gave up when chris had to fist the boulder to progress always bothered me how you were chasing bad people through these elaborate puzzles and levels trying to catch up
00:13:23
Speaker
but they were always at the other end like how did they get there And last but not least, friend of the channel said he sent me a gif of a shirtless Wesker and just said, give me seven minutes with this man. That's it. That's the thoughts.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah. feel like And again, I don't want to court any Wesker aficionados, let's just say, but I feel like there's a lot of people that probably feel that about certain character
Design Choices and Influences in Resident Evil 5
00:13:50
Speaker
characters. Yeah, have you got any thoughts on that before we begin?
00:13:52
Speaker
No, it's interesting to hear other people's thoughts on it. Some thoughts that I think I definitely share there. Whether that's Wesker related or not, I shall not say. But yeah, definitely some thoughts I share there. It's interesting to hear some other ones that perhaps I maybe don't as much agree with, but still interesting to hear. Without any further ado, while we dive into it Let's do it. And of course, we will be right back after these messages...
00:14:11
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a Scottish variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime in general interest. Join me, your host, Satsunami, as well as the rest of our Chatsunami team for our takes on these very important pop culture topics. Sir, it's clearly a trap. I accept copyright! That happens three times in the film. Every time that general goes, don't do this one thing, he goes, do you know what I'ma do? It's the exact thing. She had the pointy teeth. What was that about? looked like Bilbo when he wants the ring back.
00:14:44
Speaker
She turned into it. I just want the lightsaber one more time. Parasite says, no, you will get back into your office and work. No, says the man in Zoom. your Trousers are for the working man. You're bursting into your hotel room. Honey, we need to go.
00:15:02
Speaker
Leave the kids. You can milk an odysh. Oh.
00:15:09
Speaker
That's the worst thing you've ever said on any of the episodes. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out at our website, chattsunami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:15:25
Speaker
Stay classy and have banana. This has been chattsunami. I'm sorry for...
00:15:36
Speaker
Greetings! My name is RoboticBattletoaster. I'm a variety game streamer on Twitch. There, I play a range of both multiplayer and single-player games. You can also find me on Twitter and in my Discord server, where you can vote what games I play. And, of course, join in on the fun and back-and-forth banter in a relaxed and safe environment. I hope to see you there.
00:15:55
Speaker
So, without any further ado, let's get back to Chatsunami. Ta-ta! Seriously, though, I cannot believe that he could do that kind of thing in seven minutes. You know, usually it takes... Oh, sorry, we're back. So, Adam.
00:16:07
Speaker
Sorry, is that joke okay? Yeah, no, go for it. So, Adam, will we dive into the weird and wonderful world of Resident Evil 5, first of the all? Yeah, let's do it. Let's hold hands and skip into the heart of Africa.
00:16:20
Speaker
This game is such an anomaly to me, to be honest, because as I've said in past episodes this month, my first game of the series that I played all the way through, although I've technically seen let's plays and things like that the first game that i played of this series was the resident evil 4 remake absolutely loved it and that was the game that genuinely inspired me to go back play the first one play two and three play five and six of course and then seven and eight which but trust me we won't get on to next week i have to say, the history of this game is absolutely fascinating. The way I described it to you, and last week as well, was the way that Resident Evil 4 seemed to change the whole formula of the franchise. So it went from survival horror and all these elaborate puzzles to slightly more action-oriented, and the way I thought of it was relating back, ironically enough, to our Terminator month.
00:17:18
Speaker
was that Resident Evil 4 seems to be the kind of turning point. It is the Terminator 2 of this franchise, isn't it? I think that's a fair comparison. And what i mean by that, sorry, before I hand it back to you there, is that when I say the Terminator 2, it's something that I brought up when we were discussing all the films on Terminator a Month, which honestly feels like yesterday, but I know it was years ago, and can't. I can't believe that. ah when we were rewatching the terminator films it felt as if one and two were absolute peak they were at the height of their game and then
00:17:51
Speaker
after that terminator two was so good and so perfect in the way that it did the formula that all of the preceding films wanted to copy it and they never quite reached that same height and that's how I feel especially about five where and well technically that's how I feel a about five and six I feel as if they were trying to hit the heights of the action set pieces the goofiness but try and weave in some horror and such and they just never hit the same heights as four and I'm not saying that makes them bad games necessarily but yeah what are your thoughts on that, Adam. I think just to extend the Terminator 2 comparison a little bit more, I think as well, like Terminator 2, Resident Evil 4 was also widely critically praised and also we did very well financially. So from a pure sort of economic viewpoint, it made complete sense for Capcom to try and build on that.
00:18:42
Speaker
You know, that was a formula they'd proven to be very successful, you know, was something that was going to lead to good revenue and also like wide scale praise for them. So I completely understand why they went that direction. Now, again, whether you think the way they evolved on that was good or bad, i think is a bit of personal
Evolution from Resident Evil 4 to 5
00:18:58
Speaker
preference there.
00:18:58
Speaker
But no, I can see your point. V definitely took a lot of the elements from IV and ran with them. It certainly carried on a lot of things. Obviously, the control scheme, in a way, is quite reminiscent of IV. Obviously, it was updated for for the more modern consoles of the time. But, you know, it's still that over-the-shoulder shooting. When you're shooting, you can't move. You know, so definitely built on that kind of idea. Obviously, it lent more into the action, which IV had already started. But yeah, as well, it was trying to do its own, obviously trying to do its own things as well. The biggest thing being co-op. That was a really big departure. Well, it was a big departure, i think, for the mainline series. so And then also as well, kind of finding its own middle ground by, as you say, again, maybe putting more of the action in, more kind of set piece action sequences. And I guess the horror being, I don't know if they deliberately de-emphasized the horror as a purpose thing. I think it maybe was just ah probably a symptom, I think, a little bit of the kind of direction they went.
00:19:49
Speaker
But I think it very much, for me, it's very much a kind of evolution. As the storyline has the evolution of the last Plagas virus, I think Resident Evil 5 is a kind of evolution of the core ideas and the core mechanics and gameplay and systems of 4.
00:20:02
Speaker
Yeah, because from what I've seen of it, it seemed to really refine a lot of the mechanics in 4. But ironically enough, it also backtracks. in a lot of them so there was no longer merchant character that you could go to you had to do all your inventory reorganizing and between missions which you and I got very accustomed to didn't we when we played through this game it felt weird for me personally and I've been called out by Martin McAllister for this by the way so bear with But the way I played these games in order was played the 4 remake first, then I played the 2 and 3 remake, then 7 and 8 because was waiting until we had time together to play the 5th game. And then once I played through all of them, i went back to the 1st game and I also played the 6th game. And the 1st game, i could kind of give it a bit of leeway because it was remade in 2002. and everything i could understand the fixed camera angles and having to stand and shoot for this one this genuinely took me off guard completely because i completely forgot that you couldn't move and shoot at the same time initially it was really hard to get used to because remember when we were playing it and you're like oh what fun and was like how do you shoot how do you aim i'm not saying there's a hidden recording on patreon on I don't know, nothing, but it was a challenge, wasn't it? It certainly is. I think as well, it's probably important to, obviously, I know you've done Resident Evil 4 already, so not to go to massive tangent on that, but I think it is important to distinguish between the original Resident Evil 4 and the remake of Resident Evil 4. Obviously, they share a lot of similar DNA and everything, but the remake does have a more modern style of gameplay, you know, and everything to the original. And so in a way, playing Resident Evil 4 remake and then playing this, I know you didn't do that, but presumably you did. 5 probably doesn't seem as much a natural progression and probably maybe in some ways seems a bit of a regression. But if you're playing the original Resident Evil 4, you know, back in the day, then playing this, this very much did feel like a kind of... I say an evolution, again, it depends on what he, because people would argue it maybe was a regression anyway, but it certainly felt it was trying to build off of that original game more than certainly it does feel now that there' the remake is, you know, probably the more popular version of Resident Evil 4, certainly currently anyway. Yeah, because something that i want to point out is that I'm not criticising this game for the gameplay, you know, because it came out in 2009, there's not been a remake yet as of recording this episode, and I swear to God when this episode comes out, if there's been announcement i'll have to edit a thing and be like hey satanami here yeah that's more a kind of hindsight thing you know going back to old mechanics and things and that doesn't necessarily make it bad but the cracks do show in certain regards when you've got a trained soldier and and he's just kind of standing there like a lemon and Just shooting and it's like, move, Chris, move, move, Sivan. He can because yeah he's bolted to the ground. But something that I brought up to you just before we started this is the fact that it's quite interesting. the type of games that were coming out around this time and i've just got a few examples here because as i said 2009 fine year etc but we had quite gritty games didn't we i say gritty some of them are fantastical but you know we had assassin's creed 2 we had call of duty modern warfare 2 left for dead 2 there was a lot of twos going there Uncharted 2, even. Infamous. Demon's Souls.
00:23:31
Speaker
Bayonetta, which I did not realise. Prototype. You know those kind of quite gritty looking games, but also very action oriented. Oh, also, your favourite Halo game, Halo 3 ODST, came out this year. Woohoo! glad you managed to name drop that in here. A completely unrelated, completely unrelated thing. You're like, better mention ODST.
00:23:51
Speaker
Oh, you know you love it. You're a smooth operator, Mr. Satsu. Oh, and anyway, before you eject me in the studio for that. Yeah, it was quite a more, obviously not for all games, but the gaming landscape at that time seemed to be going in a more gritty direction, didn't it?
00:24:10
Speaker
And you can certainly tell it with this game that it was, as what we're saying, it was less fun. focused on the horror, although there was horror elements, but it's kind of hard to see it as a horror game when you're playing as Chris Beefy Boy, Redfield, as opposed to realistic proportions versus a Jojo character, punching zombies and everything. I think as well, like I think it's a good point to raise about the kind of tone around AAA games of this time, certainly. I think as well, the other thing to point out is to point out like other trends going on at that time, and particularly, I'm going to draw it back to two games you mentioned, which were Modern Warfare 2 and Uncharted 2.
00:24:45
Speaker
Obviously, this was the heyday of the modern military shooter. It was at its height. It was peak of popularity. We're not that far removed at this point from seminal title Call of Duty 4. And alongside that, we're also seeing the rise of the action-adventure. And basically, this is the period, to me anyway, that AAA games basically became action-adventure games. ah That was the kind of staple. That's what people expected games to be, Uncharted 2 being the prime example and probably the one that really did help. to maybe not quite kickstart it off, but certainly cement this trend. They were the two, I think, probably most popular games of this year. I remember the two of them being in contention for Game of the Year's. You know, think they were two of the best-selling games of the year. So really, like, that's where the trends were going. Being a videoing company that wants to make money, I think you can maybe see why Capcom were looking at what was happening around the industry, seeing where the trends were, and maybe looking at potentially how they could start to align their series towards this. Now, I don't think Resident Evil 5 is a full move into it. It's certainly not a full move into action adventure.
00:25:42
Speaker
It perhaps is more of a step towards a modern military shooter, probably. But it certainly was steps in that direction, which, you know, would continue with 6. But yeah, I think that kind of context is important because it's just, it was what was popular at the time. It's what people wanted to play. As you know, when a company gets a game that has received so positively in and terms of gameplay, story, that kind of thing, and you know where I'm going with this, the fact that all of the players loved 4, so they took all of these tropes and things all the time and they decided to carry it forward.
00:26:16
Speaker
And it's so fascinating because before this you had 1 to 3, which were complete survival horrors on the PlayStation, then 64, that kind of thing. And then, of course, you had to code Veronica in between, which I have to give a shout out to that one, and a couple of spin-offs. But when 4 came around, and again, just mirroring what you're saying, I won't spend too much time on that, but 4 definitely changed the direction of the series. So i think when they saw the dollar or the yen signs in their eyes, they were like, yeah, okay, this is where Resident Evil needs to go. I can't exactly begrudge them for making that decision, and especially as a new fan of the series as opposed to an old school one, but I can't really begrudge them because obviously for a series to survive, you have to go with the trends, otherwise you're only going to get that hardcore fandom.
Resident Evil 5's Depiction of Africa
00:27:04
Speaker
And I'm going to be honest, unless they're buying thousands of copies a day, don't think they're going to make their money back from that.
00:27:09
Speaker
But yeah, it is fascinating to see that this is the direction they decided to go with this. And yeah, the story as well, because I think this is a good time to talk about a the story, and B, the Ouroboros story.
00:27:23
Speaker
elephant in the room, if that's okay to address it. Of course, let's go for it. As I was facetiously saying, the Ouroboros elephant in the room, which is, of course, the reception that this game had well before it came out. So as we were talking about, the whole story revolves, and spoilers ahead, but the story revolves around so Chris Redfield from, of course, the first game getting sent to Africa with the BSAA, who are a counter-bioterrorism task force. Is that right in sense? Yeah, yeah, it's a kind of, yeah, I guess a slight war on terror analogy. And he gets sent in with the West African BSA department, or their contingency, as it were, and they are investigating an outbreak of the, well, I would say last Plagas, but you know, it's just the Plagas outbreak from the fourth game, which seems to be erupting in this village in Africa. So he gets there, he ends up teaming up with Sheva, who is again another member of the BSA there and the two of them vow to try and stop this outbreak from happening and along the way Chris is of course trying to find one of his long lost companions which we will get onto later and then he comes across an old foe by the name of Albert Wesker which again we'll get onto him as well. It ends the way you would think a Resident Evil game ends with just a massive explosion and sunglasses getting thrown in the air but
00:28:45
Speaker
Before we go on to talk about those particular points, before this game came out, and I'm actually curious if you heard about this before you played this game, but there was an editor from, I think it was Newsweek it was called, that pointed out that there was a lot of racist imagery that seemed to be coming out this game. Of course, just Redfield going into Africa and showing some uncomfortable imagery. But on the flip side, i think there was a lot of people who countered this, you know, and said that no, it wasn't racism. And they had a diverse group of characters that were in the game and things. Of course, Eurogamer also picked up in the controversy and I think kind of added fuel to the fire with it. But did you hear about this at the time?
00:29:29
Speaker
I actually surprisingly did not. Now, I'm going to probably partly put this down as much as I was becoming more interested in video games. I wasn't maybe looking at the widest range of different sources, to be honest. I think as well, as you pointed out, a lot of this obviously came quite early on, sort of 2007, it looks the kind of 2073 trailer.
00:29:48
Speaker
I think as well, it might be worth pointing out that at this point, I don't know if they decided to make this a co-op game because a lot of that footage, I think, very much focused around just Chris fighting off waves of enemies. Now, of course, you can certainly understand, I can totally see where the controversy came from. And to be honest, I can completely understand why people haven't. issue with this game, with some of its imagery, with its setting and the like. You know, it's obviously, as you mentioned, it's not by any means, it doesn't seem to be a uniform opinion on it. It does seem quite divided. One thing as well, just for a matter of interest, because I didn't actually know this until recently, but the BBFC, so that's the, in Britain, that's the British Board of Film Classification, kind of looked into the One cut scene from the game that was quite notorious, where a white woman is sort of being dragged away by one of the kind of enemy characters. And they looked into that because that that was often held up as a scene that was highlighting the kind of racism of this game.
00:30:41
Speaker
They looked into it. In their opinion, they didn't consider it to be racist for what that's worth. Again, I don't think that should be a definitive categorization to say this game isn't racist, because if that's what you feel, I can completely understand. And I think there's enough sort of evidence there to back that up if that's the way you feel. While similarly, if you don't feel that way, I think as well, I can understand that as well. But it's a difficult one. It's a difficult one, and I can completely see where it came from. It looks like this surprised Capcom quite a lot. I don't think Capcom quite expected this. So i think it was something that they kind of, I think, had to scramble a bit to deal with. To be honest, I don't know where I fall on this, to be 100% honest. There's some parts of me that are like, is this any worse a depiction of Africa than Resident Evil 4 is a bad depiction of Spain? Or, you know, the other Resident Evil games are a bad depiction of the USA. On that level, part of me is like, I don't know if it's any worse than... On the other hand, though, i do think there are some problematic parts in it. There's a bit where you go to a village, a tribal village, which I think is quite problematic in some of the way the enemies are portrayed and the like. So again, part of me is like, I just don't quite know where I fall on it, to be honest, because I can completely see both sides. I don't know what your kind of thoughts on it are. Yeah, I have to agree with you on that point, because on the one hand, i can understand why people were making those particular comparisons, let's just say. Because, yeah, when you look at that imagery of Chris going into Africa and everything, and you can definitely see that, I think, Capcom probably just didn't really, as you were saying, think Capcom didn't really expect it because this isn't really the first time they've been semi-insensitive.
00:32:16
Speaker
I remember when I tried out Resident Evil 4 for the first time, the original one, and I've got a friend in Spain and I messaged them and I was like, oh look, I'm playing this game, they are talking Spanish, and then they got back to me and said, technically they're not. And it's like, what do you mean? It's like, well, they are speaking Spanish, but they're speaking Latin American Spanish, which I know you might think, oh, well, what's the difference kind of thing? But again, it's Cap. going, ah, Latin American Spanish, you know, same thing. And again, I don't think that was a purposely racist thing, but I do think on the other hand, it's just more in the lines of insensitivity. And think as well, this is probably where this lands for me, that I don't think it was intended to be racist probably and I can't say that 100% you know I'm not going to say that if you feel as if this game's racist or anything or the depictions are uncomfortable you know I'm not going to say oh you're wrong because you're obviously entitled and valid to feel that way a listener but I just think it seems more of the kind of thought oh here's an idea and then the put it in and you're like, oh, that is very uncomfortable because, again, I was in the same mindset as you. At the very beginning, you've got all the infected villagers and they're coming at you. I genuinely don't think that was intended as being racist. And I think that it is very valid to say that it's no worse to be angry at the fifth game for killing people who are from that country and then not being angry at killing people from that country in the fourth game.
00:33:47
Speaker
Because as well then that leads into the issue of, well, if you're not going to have native African people in this game, then you're going to cause more issues, if that makes sense. You know, you're just going to erase them from the game. It's like that doesn't fix the issue either. So it's literally a boulder in the hard way. with this but the one that I genuinely I do agree with you was when Adam and I were playing through this game and you said to me there's one particular scene that is quite uncomfortable in a way and I was like what do you mean surely it can't be any worse than what we've been playing you know it must just be the same and then we go to that level where they're all dressed in the tribal gear and things and Yeah, I'm not going to lie, I'm totally with you on that boat.
00:34:30
Speaker
I thought that was a little bit too far. And they tried to wave it off in the game that, oh, this is the outfit of that particular tribe and everything. And, oh, they live in this very remote area and you're going in, gunning them down, as it were. Again, I don't think it was intentional, but I do think they skirted the line, as it were, between insensitivity and what they could
Potential Remake Needs for Resident Evil 5
00:34:54
Speaker
get away with. So it's a complex issue, isn't it? I feel as if on the one hand, people can easily wave it off and say, no no, no, no, it's not racist. But just because it's not intended doesn't mean that it's not uncomfortable. No, 100%. That's what makes it so difficult is that I don't think there's a complete right or wrong to it. really is how you feel. I don't think either way, there's a right or a wrong way to feel about it.
00:35:17
Speaker
You know, this is just you and I have given our opinions on how we feel about it, but there's obviously different opinions out there and that are no less valid than ours. So yeah, it's a hard one. And again, I would agree with you. don't think it's ever trying to intentionally be racist. But again, that doesn't, you know, you don't have to be intentional for something to be racist. There is stuff in there that I think is unfortunately problematic. So So it is a legacy of the game. If they ever did remake, I don't know if Capcom ever planned to remake Resident Evil 5 or not, but it would be, at least would be interesting from a, I guess, from a kind of academic point of view. be interesting to what they decided to do about that. Being that it probably, for all the stuff we talk about with it, you know, people not liking the direction it was taking the franchise in and everything. The allegations of racism, I think, are the game's, unfortunately, games lasting legacies at its most problematic aspect.
Character Arcs in Resident Evil 5
00:36:04
Speaker
So again, i don't know quite how you would tackle that, because to be honest, whatever way you tackle it, you're going annoy some people for whatever reason. That'll be a tricky one. As I said, as of this episode, there hasn't been any announcement or plans to remake five, I think.
00:36:20
Speaker
and i'm speculating here but i think they're going in the direction of creating resident evil 9 which will be interesting to see where they take that but yeah again as you were saying you summed up perfectly there there's no real right or wrong answer but i felt as if it was an important thing to talk about rather than you know just brushing it aside and saying well whisker's goofy he's got no shirt on we know that we You know this game is 100% goofy. Even the story is really over the top. As we said, you've got the return of Wesker, who is now like a drugged up Blade looking guy, which very, very bizarre, isn't it? Granted, you know, I'm coming into the franchise late, but I didn't expect And then when I saw it, I was like, oh, that's why he looks like he's from the Matrix. You know, it was very strange pivot because as we were talking about there, I think the majority the game takes place in these very unique and, let's face it, gorgeous looking settings in Africa. But then we get to that point of a Resident Evil game where it's like, oh, you're nearing the end. We have to stick you in the lab. And you're like, don't. Let me out the lab! And you have to fight your way to Wesker, you have to fight Excella, I think her name is, who's his henchwoman and looks like she's dressed as a Greek goddess or something for some weird reason. And you've got the sleazy businessman that you have to fight against as well. Resident Evil loves their fish monsters, don't they? It's a wee bit of a staple. Yeah, yeah, it's getting there, definitely. But yeah, see in terms of the story, before we move on to 6, because I know we'll have a lot to say about that, but what did you think of the story overall for this? Because I feel as if this is quite contentious as well, seeing as it's pulling elements from especially the first few games. It's an interesting one. Overall, think the story is quite meh, to be honest. I mean, my counterpoint would be I don't think there's that many good Resident Evil stories anyway. Again, my own personal opinion, I don't think any of the main Resident Evil games have that great story. To be honest, I don't think that's where the strength of the series has ever lain. Five certainly does have a lot of very over-the-top
00:38:24
Speaker
elements to it and then particularly with the villains transforming themselves into mutated monsters is quite over the top in this one there's some parts of it i like chris redfield is my favorite resident evil protagonist now maybe that's partly because resident evil 5 was my first game so obviously like chris is a character that you know the first character i played as and stuff so perhaps i've got a fondness from that kind of angle I like parts of it. I like the whole, it's building up to this kind of combination of the Chris-Wesker relationship and conflict. I do like that it's kind of built around that and that's what it sort of builds towards. I do like parts of it.
00:38:56
Speaker
I really like Wesker's portrayal. Maybe again because it's the first game I played, but I really like Wesker's portrayal. and I really like his design, his mannerisms, the way he speaks and everything. I just think it's great. I really enjoy it. I'm trying to formulate my thoughts on Shiva, to be honest, because on one level, I do like the fact there's a kind of partner thing to it.
00:39:13
Speaker
I think what maybe slightly helps the game is that in it against any kind of allegations of racism are that, you know, you do have a black main character in it, like, and you know, a playable protagonist as well. Again, maybe that does help a bit if you want to look at it as maybe not as racist, perhaps, or maybe it doesn't matter to you anyway. But I think it was important to have an element of that in there. I don't know if she was the most developed character, unfortunately. Now, part of this, I think, does stem from the fact that I do think it does seem that the co-op elements were of more later additions. It was sort of added in halfway through. Well, perhaps if they'd been something that been planned at the beginning, perhaps we could have got a more fleshed out character. I think there's nothing wrong with Shiva. I just don't think it's as well developed. And I wish there was maybe more put into kind of her motivations and maybe if she was given them slightly more interesting ties to maybe the overall Umbrella, Wesker, Uroboros plotline. but i still think she's fine for she is. I generally like the ideas. Maybe it's just in the execution. I think the story perhaps isn't done the best. And again, I just, I would probably say for me, that's a criticism i could level against most mainland Resident Evil games personally. But I do think five does stand out for perhaps as more over the top elements.
00:40:18
Speaker
Unfortunately, I think some of them work well, you we'll probably come on to it, but I really do like a lot of the boss fights in this, but perhaps in some of the other kind of story beats, it probably doesn't work as well, to be honest. Yeah, you make a fantastic point there because one of the things that I have to say kinda hurts the game as a whole, or rather not hurts the game but hurts the narrative of the game is just the bombastic elements and leaving the boulder in the room as aside here, Yeah, I do feel like you've got Sheva, who is an absolutely fantastic character, to her but I do agree there's some elements where it's like you wish there was more development. I think her backstory is that she came from a place where Umbrella decided to do experiments on her hometown, and then that of obviously led to her being quite peeved.
00:41:04
Speaker
To put it very nicely, be very peeved against Umbrella. And then eventually that led to her joining the BSA later on. And I think she has a great character. And Chris as well. I like Chris's development in this because, as we were saying, let's face it, the development of the characters in the first game was paper thin, wasn't it? It wasn't the best. though It was good. It was serviceable in the first game.
00:41:28
Speaker
But, you know, you've got Chris as the main hero. You've got Jill as the main hero. They were two sides of the same coin, you know, so they weren't overly different. But then you get to this and, of course, by 2009, you have a lot more narrative-driven games along with your action. You know, it's not enough to have fun gameplay. You have to have that story element to prop it up.
00:41:48
Speaker
Having Chris try to hunt down Jill, I really liked that element of it. And I liked how supportive Sheva was as well to that. To be like, nah, we're going to burn this down together. Jill, on the other hand, I have conflicting things about that because I like the fact that we're trying to find her, but the whole mind control thing and dyeing her hair blondes. I'm sure there's a Resident Evil fan out there to say actually the thing in her chest turned her into... a Wesker type person, you know, and that turned a hair blonde or something. I don't know. Do you know the reason for that? I have not a clue, but let's say it was something do with that chest implant thing. Yeah, let's say it was the, I don't know, the B virus, the blonde virus. Or maybe she was trying to change it herself.
00:42:31
Speaker
Who knows? Perhaps you thought a change was necessary. And the fact that she stole one of Wesker's bodysuits as well. Fully with heels, would you believe? Which I was kind of like, hmm, that seems like the least tactical thing you could have added to this uniform. You know when people look at a design and they go, that's a very human design? Every time I look at a character in this game, I think, wow, that's a very Capcom design.
00:42:53
Speaker
it's very capcom coded as it were because you've got her and the bodysuit and everything but then you've got wesker as we were saying dressed as cross between a blade character and a matrix character it is so surreal to watch you're like what is going on here but i have to say he actually made me scream in terror in this game and i think remember when we were playing it and i was like oh what do we do for this boss fight you're like yeah just run and gun and everything i'm like that I'll be fine. And I saw him at the end of a corridor and I'm shooting away thinking, nah, that's fine. You know, pop a few bullets and I'll be fine. I didn't realise he had super speed and my soul left my body. at me this blonde hunky man running at me like Johnny Bravo and he I was like Jesus Christ so apologies for rupturing your eardrums at that part for all the kind of bombast of Resident Evil 5 and perhaps it is ridiculous at some points and where it doesn't work like I think maybe the fight with the giant doesn't really work to be honest in the way that it I think it worked quite well in Resident Evil 4 I think it does quite the same here on rails seen just before that in the vehicle with the the enemies and the bikes and everything that's a bit hit and miss as well but where the bombast works I really do think a lot of these boss fights are a lot of fun to play. not only they just kind of think some of them are quite epi
00:44:03
Speaker
but as well just those moments the one thing i always remember about reney wo five i always remember that the first fight with weca words wesker and jill versus chris and shiva and that exact as you said exact bit of wests becauses like dashing around like she isn't blinked from the dishonored games charging around the place and he's stalking you and chasing you down you know if you're plan as chris i think it adds a lot of fun doesn't really horror But I think it can provoke these kind of moments of terror. But I think it's that kind of fun terror where you're like panicking and stuff. And, you know, then your co-op partner, if you're playing with somebody else, is trying to come and help you out if they can, you know, at the same time. So I think it makes for a lot of fun. I think that's why I have a particular fondness for this game and and particularly for kind of Wesker and his design and everything. Just I think it leads to these very kind of fun, cool moments.
00:44:43
Speaker
As you said, for all the bombast and action moments, it is very memorable, isn't it? Especially with the iconic Whisker line of the seven minutes. Seven minutes is all I have to spend with you. And then he just beats the shit out and you're like, oh no, Whisker, I'm sorry, please. Yamaro. And it's like, no, no, no. yo You signed up for this, that's it. Some people's fantasies, my horror, okay? It was not a good time.
00:45:11
Speaker
Especially, see when he just teleports, that as you were saying, with a blink and disordered, where it just appears, and it's like, Jesus Christ, my soul, honestly, my soul was just hovering at that point above my body.
Co-op Dynamics in Resident Evil 5
00:45:21
Speaker
It's like, yeah, I'm not coming back until you finish this boss fight. I keep leaving and coming back. You know, you've got that, and I will agree with you. I feel as if the giant fight didn't land, the boat chase, that was that was okay, the on-rail shooting sections...
00:45:36
Speaker
Again, i think they wanted a more grandiose story. The fact that they were going to Africa, so they wanted to take advantage of the iconography, which some bits obviously did it better than others. And I liked the development into the lore of it, with the progenitor virus coming into it, and learning a bit more of Oswald Spencer as a guy. a bit iffy with him getting killed off in this game, but it was Wesker. Wesker, seven minutes. You know what mean? In fact, he did a less than seven minutes, but yeah, then you've got moments that you think, wow, this is cool, this is awesome, this is great, and then other moments where you're like, yeah, I don't see why we need a temple under middle of this village. I wasn't too fond of those moments. I felt as if when we were playing through it, was like, yeah, this is quite tedious and... Yeah, some moments landed and others didn't, which I know is such a reductive way to summarise this game, but i genuinely think that there were some excellent moments that I think should be praised in it, but other moments where I was just like, yeah, this could have been an email, the game, you know what i mean?
00:46:41
Speaker
I think it's fair to say I like the game overall but I think it's fair to say it's far from perfect it's not blemish free at all like it's got plenty of warts from some problematic moments as we've mentioned to I think some kind of failed attempts at very bombastic gameplay I'm not totally obviously this game is what I feel like started to kind of de-emphasize invent well that's unfair to say because inventory management is still a part of it it just I don't know. I don't quite like it as well because it's not like with 4 or something where you're like, you have a briefcase and you can build it up and everything. Or it's not like the old games where you you know you're running between save rooms to i item boxes and everything like that. and It's a much more limited, much more focused one. And I think it makes it a bit duller, to be honest. you know I don't think it makes as interesting as those other elements in older games. And what I think in some of the more recent games as well. So it's not perfect. It's not perfect at all. And I said the story is what it is. I don't think the story is anything special. I think one thing as well I would, maybe one bigger problem I have with this game is I think it does lack some more memorable environment. You and I were talking a few weeks back, I think. we I've not long completed the Resident Evil 4 remake. And I was talking about how much I love the castle environment in that. I think it's like such a standout high point of the game. I love the way it's interconnected and I love the environment. I love the enemies. I mean, I think it's really cool. I think 5 lacks that.
00:47:57
Speaker
I kind of like the fact that 5 does take a slightly different approach where a lot of it is in broad daylight. That's quite different to, you know, a lot of the previous Resident Evil games, certainly, you know, adds a kind of new element. I do think some of the opening scenes are quite good. You know, I do like some of that as much as a kind of obviously trying to copy 4 in some way. I do think it does it quite well. But don't, again, I don't think the environments are a standout thing. It's more corridor-esque. It's more just designed to kind funnel you down from point A to point B, get you into the combat and everything, which is fine. think it works for this game, but I think it does unfortunately mean that I don't look back on any area. The things I look back on the moments I say. I think about the kind of boss fights with Wesker and everything. I don't really think about, oh, I love exploring or being in that particular environment. So again, long winded way of me saying it's not a perfect game at all.
00:48:41
Speaker
But in spite of that, I still had a lot of fun playing this again with you. And I think the co-op was a bit of a divisive point and we can argue maybe it does help to reduce the horror in it. But I think the co-op adds a lot to it. And I think there's still a lot of value in this game as a co-op experience. I had a lot of fun with it. I think it you know provides a good lot of tense moments. i think it provides some good fun action.
00:49:01
Speaker
and yeah, I just think it's a bit of a blast to play with somebody to be honest no i'm totally with you there because the co-op mechanic was quite divisive i think at the time probably but especially in hindsight now because other than probably i think five and six are the main co-op ones not including any spin-offs or side modes that kind of thing but for this game yeah they definitely wanted to emphasize having you play play with other people, having to play with your friends, but if you didn't then that's perfectly fine as well.
Resident Evil 6's Critiques and Fanbase
00:49:33
Speaker
I think if I played this game on my own I don't think I would have enjoyed it the same to be honest because half of it, and I'm not just saying this because you're here, but I genuinely think half of the fun from this game was playing with yourself. The fact that we got through so many situations where we're laughing, we're joking, we're wincing at some cultural incident at the end of the day we're like oh this is such a great game and yeah again you've got the very memorable moments like as we said this everyone merits the and i'll always do the voice for that apologies but you've got that you've got the darker tone at the beginning but then that's kind of thrown in away for a gigantic fish mutation of the sleazy businessman that you have to fight someone on the ship which
00:50:17
Speaker
Again, it's quite interesting, I've got to say, because I played Resident Evil Revelations before I played Resident Evil 5, or at least before I got to that part in Resident Evil 5, and I thought, oh, this looks like an asset swap, which obviously I can't hold that against Capcom because, you know, it's their game, and if it's easy enough to take a ship from one game and put it in another, I'm not going to beat them down for that.
00:50:42
Speaker
But yeah, there was a lot that I loved and a lot that I disliked, but I feel as if it's better as a co-op experience overall. As a single player experience, I think I would have hated this game genuinely. And I played through the DLCs and I did. enjoy them for the most part so the dlc i mean is the prequel to the game where you as chris redfield and jill valentine you go into the spencer mansion 2.0 as i were to try and find oswald spencer you have to fight wesker again i nearly got my ass kicked but fortunately survived then you've got the other one with the desperate escape where you escape with jill and josh through the remains of the umbrella facility and that was a lot of fun and that was interested and again i love that different angle of the bsa that it wasn't just oh it's just american we're just gonna crash in and take over i love that part of it but yeah unfortunately that's not really something that carried on to the later games and it's something we will talk about of course in our seven and eight retrospective and the game that of course we are about to move on to which is resident evil 6
00:51:52
Speaker
aka the game that has a giraffe getting inappropriate actions medicates with a human silhouette. And yeah, I'm going to be honest, you see at the time when you first saw that logo, were you just as horrified as I was? Do you know what? I don't think I'd seen the logo until I'd heard the sort of comments about it. I don't know if I actually was ever able to able to view this logo without that image in my head, unfortunately. So i don't know if I can ever say i had an ever unbiased look at it. I mean, i don't. know Once you have that im image in head, i think it's very difficult and it's impossible, I think, to not see it, unfortunately. Apparently Capcom didn't see it, so there you go. Well, you say that, but apparently they did tweet out and they just put the one word that said giraffe in it. I don't know when that was, but I'm going to be honest, I think if they didn't know at the time, they certainly know now.
00:52:41
Speaker
but Yeah, that'll be an interesting one for them to remake, but ironically enough, this game is also controversial, but for completely different reasons. You know, we spent a good while diving into the complex controversies of the fifth game, you know, whether it was inappropriate or not, but...
00:52:59
Speaker
Before this game, this is just a whole, to borrow a phrase from a TV show, it's like a whole bouquet of whoopsie daisies, isn't it? Again, I went into this game very open-minded, thinking, what is the worst that could happen in this game? What is the worst? Surely it's not as bad, because, I mean, you know me very well, Adam. I am a Sonic fan. I've been through the wars.
00:53:18
Speaker
I know how bad these types of games can get. but honestly, nothing prepared me for what was about to come. And of course, we get into Resident Evil 6, which is an absolute dumpster fire. Is that right in saying, or am I being hyperbolic as usual? This one's hard to talk about for a completely different reason. You're right. This is, in many ways, putting aside the very real controversy of Five and the very important controversy of Five. You know more sort of entertainment, let's have a laugh about This is the most controversial, I think, of the mainline games, because... You're right. It is the subject of a lot of ridicule, a lot of apathy, a fair bit of hate as well, if we're honest, this game. That being said, it does have quite a loyal legion of fans who really like it and will fight tooth and nail that people just didn't get it at the time. And that actually, once you understand what this game was supposed to be about and how you're supposed to play it, then it is like an absolute gem. I think, and to honest, for me, this happens a lot with these type of games. I think if you get a game that's either the subject of quite high profile criticism or high profile praise, you know, obviously that tends to sort of create the narrative and skew the narrative in the public and a conscience. But do think as well, you do tend to get a backlash. You will get sizable contingent of people who, you know, if it's a game that's highly praised, will be like, no tell you what, this is overrated. It's not that good. And here's why. Well, you know, similarly, you get a game that is high profile or seen as a high profile failure, the subject of... fairly vocal criticism. You all get a large edition of people who say, nope, you just don't get it. This is actually a gem. People, you just don't understand it. And they will, you can say, fight tooth and nail to tell you why it is a game that should be better remembered and has kind of been unfairly treated. And we can see that all over the place. I mean, the other one that springs to my mind is the when Castlevania went onto the Nintendo 64. Its Nintendo 64 version is usually quite highly critically panned.
00:55:10
Speaker
oh god what's it The angry video game nerd did a particularly brutal takedown of it. But that has subsequently led to a large group people being like, no, this is actually a great game and here's why. I think Resident Evil 6 has that, to be honest. And it's been a long time. I've only ever played through this game once. And that was a good few years ago. And to be honest, I was thinking about playing through it again for this.
00:55:29
Speaker
I actually ended up not doing that. So I decided instead to kind of dive in to people's thoughts about this. And it's interesting to see how split the things are. I still would say overall people are probably more critical of it than they praise it. But I think it's interesting that it does have this kind of split reputation. And it does seem to be that a lot of people either fall in the category of no this is terrible or else people kind of laugh at it or people kind of fall into this is actually amazing and how could you ever say it's a bad game? Yeah, that was absolutely fascinating to me when I saw that because I was genuinely like, game you're trying to
Narrative Ambitions in Resident Evil 6
00:56:01
Speaker
do. And again, I came into this with an open mind. was like, okay, there are some elements that I appreciate.
00:56:08
Speaker
And I do like the fact that they just decided to go all out for this game. Unfortunately, it doesn't pay off. But of course, we will get into that in a minute. But there was a lot in this game that I genuinely, I just think, what were they thinking? Again, not to coin the phrase from the Angry Video Game Nerd, but genuinely, what were they thinking for certain elements, for the characters, for the story? The gameplay itself, I will admit, was great. had someone on Twitter not yell at me, but they were quite, not annoyed, but they were quite peeved that I was criticising the game when the AI was, and their words, not mine, the AI was supposed to be like amazing and everything, and it was a step up from five Honestly, couldn't see it as a single player of this game. I feel as if this is one of the games that they definitely... a Five was, oh, we're going to add co-op and just see how we run with this. Six was a game that they definitely had a mind of, oh, this is going to be a co-op game first and foremost.
00:57:06
Speaker
And I'm going to be honest, I hate it. but just I hate the co-opness of it. Again, see if you and I were playing it and we went through it, we could make some jokes. It's like big, goofy, fun action. But objectively, do you know what it is? And I don't mean this as a compliment. It is the Sonic Adventure of the series. And when I say that, I don't mean Sonic Adventure is a bad game or anything. What I mean that is they have... They've taken a central narrative and they've split it into different perspectives. So you play as those different perspectives. You get to see it. You play as Leon, who is trying to uncover a conspiracy theory. And he's helped by his mysterious girlfriend, Ada Wong, which I know she's not technically his girlfriend, but you know what i mean You've got Jake and Sherry who are trying to figure out the secret to antibodies within Jake. And we will get on to Jake because he is a particularly fascinating character in this story. We've got Chris and Pears who... That's the heavy action BSA part of it, which...
00:58:08
Speaker
Again, it made me feel as if I wanted to play an action game focused on the BSA. It didn't make me want to play a Resident Evil game, if that makes sense. It didn't feel like a Resident Evil game at that point. And at last the but not least, we've got Ada, who is the weirdest, weirdest part of this game entirely. The reason that this kicks off in the first place. If I could summarise it, I would say that the game is too long, too tedious, and it's just overly repetitive. And you know, some people love that about this game, the fact that there's so much additions to the lore, to the backstories and everything. There's certain elements I do like. For example, the whole idea of Chris having this survivor's guilt, much like Leon, ironically enough, where he is absolutely in this fit of depression and then sadly at the end of it he loses one of the only people who believe in him and then he has to continue on for his sake. I loved that part of the story. I genuinely thought that was so well done. For Leon's story, I was just, I was really annoyed.
00:59:08
Speaker
I'm going to be honest, man. I was just so annoyed. The central story beats were, oh, Leon, you're here. What happened? Oh, well, let me explain later. And then it takes some ages to actually explain what you already know. If that makes sense.
00:59:24
Speaker
Funny enough, I felt as if Jake's storyline was pretty compelling. Ada's was just an absolute omni-shambles, but sorry, I have rambled long enough. Flipping it back onto you, what did you think of the story, both as I think the first impression and revisiting it for this episode when you were researching it.
00:59:42
Speaker
I would agree with you. I think there are some interesting elements. I also agree that I quite like some of the themes of the Chris Pears storyline. I do think there's interesting stuff there. Again, it doesn't maybe come together in the execution, but at least I think there's interesting ideas there.
00:59:56
Speaker
On one level, I actually like the ideas of them having these sort of branching narratives and having these kind of four separate campaigns. You know, i like the idea. I think... the problem becomes and when they try and force them to mingle together and you and you keep crossing paths with people and they try and get you to see things from a different perspective I don't mean like view story things different perspective them i literally mean see events from a different perspective you know somewhere else and whatever but that I think is a problem and I think there was a bit too much of that I almost wonder if maybe trying to do something a bit more separate might have been better Again, there's some interesting stuff. I mean, I think the characters are a bit of a mix as well. Obviously, you've got favorites like Chris and Leon and Ada in there. I think maybe some the new characters are a bit more of a mixed bag of what people think about them. I've seen quite wildly different interpretations of peers, for instance. like I've seen some people say they really liked him as a counterpoint to Chris and thought that dynamic played off really well. While I've seen other people say he's very annoying, he's very bland, adds nothing to it. So I think just it highlights, again, the very mixed reception of this game. And again, maybe that's just people have different opinions of things, you know, and generally, but I think it really is highlighted in this game. The general problem with 6, I think, is the length of its story and length of its campaign. Now, if you really like this game, then it's great this much material. There's about 20 hours, I think, worth of gameplay in this. Probably maybe more, maybe slightly less depending how you play, but it's a sizable chunk of content you get which is in one way great, I guess, if you want to go down the value for money angle. And there's lots to this game. You know, there's no denying that. If you really like the game, really into the story, really like the gameplay, then there's lots here to get into. So that's great. But if, for instance, obviously the way you experienced it, if I'm honest, when I played it, I didn't really enjoy this game that much at all. To be honest, when I played it, it becomes a slog when there's that much to get through. In many ways, it doesn't feel, sorry, I know I'm straight away from the story now, but it doesn't feel that there's that huge,
01:01:41
Speaker
huge amount of difference in the gameplay as well, I think, which is a shame and maybe seems like something they maybe more wanted to try and get, but I think just weren't able to either weren't able to just pull it off, ran out of time. You know, I think the scale of this game is something to consider that I think they maybe were trying to be a bit too ambitious Capcom in this. And even with a development staff of 600, I think this was a struggle for them to pull this all together. So maybe we should celebrate what they actually managed do, because I think it is a relatively... Again, it's very bombastic, the storyline. It's very ridiculous.
01:02:09
Speaker
I struggle to remember lot of the kind of moment-to-moment, if I'm honest. I remember some of the big points about it, but it's very over-the-top. It's very bombastic. It sort of takes what was happening in 4 and 5. And I suppose in all the Resident Evil games to an extent, they're all quite bombastic in their own way, but it really runs with that. But maybe we could say it pushes it maybe too far in this case. I think that seems a bit of the consensus around it. no, 100%. Basically, they took all of the action elements of 5 and then they just ramped it up to 11 and they just said, you know what, run free. You can have as many Michael Bay explosions as you want. You can have all of the absolute ridiculous elements of it. get me wrong, Resident Evil has an underlying silliness. One of my favourite scenes, and it's something that I came across completely by chance on YouTube, is scene where Chris confronts Wesker in the original game.
01:03:01
Speaker
And I think I sent this to you to ask if it was real. And it's, you know, the scene where Chris starts laughing at Wesker, and Wesker says in the most pitiful voice, stop it. He's like, you're Pinafall Whisker. That is so silly and so dumb, but at the same time, it adds that charm to the game. do you know what I mean? That kind of, oh, it's silly, but it's also got a serious narrative underneath. Because for all the silly moments in the first game, you've got untold horrors like the Hunters, of Lisa Trevor, which was absolutely Absolutely terrifying. You've got the Crimson Hedge, you know, you've got all of that. And even in 5, going back to that one, despite the fact we said, oh, it's a bit silly with the Weskers, 7 Minutes and everything else, you've still got these poor villagers in West Africa who have been infected by the Plagas virus. And that is horrible.
01:03:50
Speaker
horrifying how you see them mutate and evolve and you know depending on the strain whether it's type two or three they transform into horrible creatures and then got bugs and you've got huge alligators and things there are horrifying elements woven within it but I feel as if while in the fifth game they're overshadowed like the horror elements are overshadowed by the silliness this game puts the silliness at the forefront and then hides it behind a lot of repair Oh, you've got to find three keys. Oh, you've got to pull three switches. That is the same repetitive game loop that you've got in each story.
01:04:26
Speaker
And I'm sorry, I was so bored when I was playing this game. And it didn't help because I was playing it on my Steam Deck and it kept crashing every so often and it wouldn't save it at the checkpoint that it saved at initially. So then that's pushing me back another 10-15 minutes that have to repeat and do all over again and that was a slog. It was a struggle and I know some people might be saying well it's better if you play it on an Xbox or if you play it on the PC rather than the Steam Deck but honestly it was just such a slog getting through this game and I appreciate as I was saying the grandiose nature of it.
Character Dynamics in Resident Evil 6
01:05:01
Speaker
I appreciate the vision as it were.
01:05:03
Speaker
Because one of the stories that I was really impressed with, and I don't know how you feel about this, but with Jake in this game. Because when I first saw Jake, I rolled my eyes because I genuinely thought, oh great, this is a stereotypical character of the time. Especially with infamous in games like that, where you thought, great, we're going to have this baldy, angsty, brooding guy. But he was surprisingly one of the best characters of six And I'm going to stand by that because I genuinely did not expect to like him as much as ah thought I would. And although it's silly that spoilers reveal that he is Wesker's son and everything and he has to deal with the sins of the father, which is actually an interesting theme. Again, going back to the idea that there are good themes in this game, that he has teamed up with Sherry Birkin, who Sherry is also a victim of this idea that her father, William Birkin, created the G-Virus, and, you know, she's having to not pay for it, but, you know, she has to live with the fact that she knows that her father's done this to the world and everything, and it's a bit like Jake as well. He is just a mercenary with no home, and his twist, other than being Wesker's son, is, of course, that he has antibodies that he's not able to be infected with the game's new virus, which is the C-Virus. It stands for chrysalid virus, I think. but he is an interesting character and I do think it was quite clever that they paired those two together. Not gonna lie, didn't like some of the more problematic moments when they kind of sexualised Sherry in some scenes and you were like, oh, ah wonderful, thanks Capcom, 10 out of 10. For legal reasons, that is definitely a joke. Sort of your shut out, Capcom. But did you feel that way as well for Jake's storyline, or were you kind of indifferent when he played it? To be honest, I think I was a bit indifferent by this point. So if I remember rightly, the way I played these stories, I do wonder if the order you play the stories in makes a difference. it'll be interesting to hear the order you played them in. So I started with Chris's story, then I played Ada's, then I played Jake's, and I finished with Leon's, I'm pretty sure. So I'll be honest... I had found Ada's story ah very much of a... And I found Chris' story with the slog as well, but very much had found Ada's story quite a grind. So I was quite done with this game i was by the time I got to Jake's story. So I wasn't really giving much to the game, no matter what it was kind giving back. I do agree. I do think it's interesting the teaming Jake up with Sherry, because I do think it's interesting to have two children of villains, for lack of a better word. i do do think that's interesting. And I think there's some interesting stuff there. I can't help but agree with you a little bit. like There's something a bit cringey about Jake's design. And especially when you read some of the developer commentary in the lore on up to this game, they developed, where was I reading it? They developed Jake because they wanted a character that would appeal to, for lack of a better term, the youth of 2012.
01:07:48
Speaker
So Jake move was designed to be somebody today's youth can empathize with. That's a bit of a cringeworthy tagline for this character. I would never say he's the worst character in this series or the character I hated or anything like that. It's a bit meh from me but i think there is some kind of interesting stuff there yeah well funny enough and this is me totally not bringing up my list of games from 2012 but yeah it's funny you say that they designed them around one that the kids of 2012 would sympathize with and relate to because man i can see the inspiration of this the correct term you've got max pain 3 coming out that year you've got far cry 3 you've got assassin's creed 3 lots of threes surprisingly well i say that but there's also black ops 2 for the call of duty series ironically enough the revelation series for resident than evil also came out in the same year but that is of course a story for another day but you've got hitman absolution as well I mean, you've got Mass Effect 3 as well, with the and I'm talking about the default Maleship character, and I don't think Maleship is anywhere near that level of underbaked or anything, but design-wise, I can see why they went with that. There's also an interesting game as well, and I'm curious...
01:09:02
Speaker
Curious to hear your thoughts about this as well. But sorry, just before I go on to say that, in case you're wondering, I went the basic route. I went Leon, Chris, Jake, and then Ada. Totally agree. Ada's story is so slog-worthy. It's just so boring. And something interesting about Ada's story as well is, I think it was on-disc DLC at the time. Then i think people found out they got quite angry, they weren't happy with the demo either, so Capcom eventually released it, and I think the idea was you had to play the first three campaigns, and then you could unlock Ada's campaign, but I think now they've just unlocked them all at the very beginning, so you can play them in whatever order you want. Personally, I think the best order if you are going to replay this is Leon, Chris, Jake, and then Ada, but if you've got 100 billion hours to spare, replay this, sure.
Comparisons with Spec Ops: The Line
01:09:53
Speaker
But one particular example I want to bring your attention to, you and it's a very, favourite's probably the wrong word, but very fond game that you and I have played, and that is Spec Ops The Line. There is actually surprising similarity between the two. Have you noticed this before I go on? Yeah. Is it the way they open? Yep. Bingo. There we go.
01:10:14
Speaker
If you read, and can't believe I'm diving into this again, but in preparation when I was recording my solo episode for Spec Ops, I read the biography of Walt Williams, who is the writer for Spec Ops Align, called Significant Zero.
01:10:29
Speaker
That is a fascinating read, by the way. I would wholly recommend it. But at the very beginning, he talks about one very particular change, and I've got kind of mixed feelings about it myself, but I'm very particular change that the higher-ups in the studio made. So, you know, Spec Ops Line was a very psychologically driven, oh, Horrors of War, that kind of thing. But then the studios apparently turned round to Walt and said, listen, we want the helicopter chase scene near the end of the game. We want that at the very beginning of the game. Then, oh, we can flash back and see where we're coming from, that kind of thing. And he was obviously outraged by this, and that's what led him to write in that, again, I don't agree with this personally, but the whole thing that, ooh, anything after the helicopter crash it was just a dream or a hallucination, and you're like, yeah, I don't like that. But again, story for another day. But I feel as if, It's kind of a similar opening here with Resident Evil 6 because it takes you through the mechanics as Leon and Helena and you're running through the streets of Shanghai trying to avoid zombies and whatnot and then you get the big explosion. You literally have to run away from an explosion. i think it's the dumbest thing ever and as someone who loves these kind of silly moments, I feel as if there's way too many of them in this game that really sully the experience. And then you have to play through it again. So you're like, well, what's the point of flashing forward, flashing back? It seemed to be the thing, wasn't it, at the time that they wanted this big, bombastic action hook at the start of the game. Otherwise, oh, gamers aren't going to like it. Oh, they're going to think this is a game for babies, that kind of thing. would agree with that as a point. I think as well, we talked about this with Resident Evil 5 in the way that it was starting to become influenced by trends in the video gaming space, you know, in 2009. And I think Resident Evil 6 is even more that case. I mean, it's worth saying that Resident Evil 5, I think, so but res five sold very well. For a long time, it was Capcom's best-selling game ever. It had shifted a lot of units.
01:12:32
Speaker
It had received mostly positive reviews. So obviously maybe some fans of the series didn't like it, but generally from my lot of critics and stuff, it had done fairly well and, you know, added to that, you know, its blockbuster sales. Obviously Capcom felt like they were in the right direction. And, you know, the trends that we talked about that were present in 2009 were even more present by 2012, obviously.
01:12:52
Speaker
You know, the military, oh as much as we were maybe starting to go into more sort of futuristic terrain, the military shooter was still very popular. The AAA action adventure was taken off even more. Obviously, Uncharted 3 in the year before. you mentioned we have Max Payne 3 this year. Again, Prototype 2 came out as well, as you say, and everything. So, like, the action adventure of AAA's honor really was taking off.
01:13:11
Speaker
And i think there's quite a well-known statement from Capcom sort of during the development of Resident Evil 6. I think in the lead up to its release, they talked about that they thought the survival horror market was too niche.
01:13:25
Speaker
And that's why they were going for a more action adventure type game. And I think it's very understandable. And I think to an extent they are right. And they certainly were right in 2012. Survival horror, I don't think, has ever particularly been the most popular genre. Like it has done well. There's no denying that. And it certainly was a very popular genre in the kind of late 90s. But it had fallen away. Like action adventure very much. And shooters became the more popular ones. Now, again, whether you used it you say they were too quick to turn their back on survival horror, and perhaps they were, it is obviously a genre that has survived and, you know, it's thriving again now in many ways. But I think they had sort of identified what was going on in the gaming space and were trying to orientate their game towards it. I think, again, it comes down to question of scale. I think it was just too big, I think. Five, for me, works a bit better because it's not too long. I don't think it, out for me, it doesn't outstay. It's welcome too long. Whereas I think Six does outstay. For me, anyway, outstay is welcomed by quite a while. And I think quite a lot of people feel that way about it. You know, again, if you really like it, then great, there's that much content. But it just feels like I can see what they were trying to do, but it just didn't manage to pull it off.
01:14:28
Speaker
But I think it's worth saying as well that Resident Evil 6 sold really well as
Resident Evil 6's Commercial and Critical Reception
01:14:32
Speaker
well. And, you know, still now, if you look at Capcom's best-selling games of all time, Resident Evil 6 is number nine on that list. So it's still in the top 10. Resident Evil 5 is number eight. So they're both still in the top 10 there. They have been overtaken now by some of the more recent Resident Evil games. But, you know, they still sold a lot of the time.
01:14:48
Speaker
Unfortunately for Resident Evil 6, as much as it sold well, it didn't do enough to recoup the costs for Capcom. You know, obviously, it was a, as I mentioned, it was a staff of 600 people who were developing it. So there was a lot of cost that went into it.
01:15:00
Speaker
And even though it had sold well and was a very high selling game for them, it just wasn't enough, I think, to completely recoup that cost. So it didn't end up being the kind of success that they hoped. But that switch to Action Engine did work, did drive sales, just obviously not enough for them they needed. Yeah, because it's an interesting point that you made there about the viability of horror games within the gaming market. Because don't get me wrong, I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert of horror games because I've got into them fairly late in my life. You know, I've got my favourites, I've got my less than favourable ones. But I do think that although I don't agree with the way they took Resident Evil 6 and made it more into action horror, mainly action, not so much horror, I feel as if in a way it was almost a necessity that they had
01:15:47
Speaker
to move away from that or at the very least either go full in survival horror or go full in action. This kind of hybrid purgatory in between just doesn't work for this game because again as I said there's a lot of themes and things that do work in this game but for every moment where you think oh this is a really interesting moment and oh what's going to happen with this then all of a sudden you've got a gratuitous shot of for example helena's sister who has been experimented on that it should be like a really sad scene and she evolves into a halfn naked lady angelly half naked half naked lady monster and you're like okay right that's the theme you're going for whereas then you get to simmons who is the villain for the most part
01:16:35
Speaker
and his reasons for being a villain is just so dumb it's just he worked with Ada Wong what once twice maybe grew infatuated with her and then decided to try and literally remake Ada Wong from test subjects and that's where the C-virus kind of came from and I hate the C-virus I'm gonna be honest just wanna of the dumbest virus strains in this particular series. The idea is interesting, but when you find out why it was made, it's not even like, oh, it's a clever idea that people develop into these hideous creatures. It's like, no, you're literally turning them into insect people or half-naked people. And again, this is obviously how viruses tend technically work in the real world, there's mutations and whatnot, but I don't know why someone said, oh, want to spend billions of dollars because I'm secretly part of this shady organisation called The Family. My forefathers, they have been part of The Family, and oh, we're going to spend millions on this virus. And you're like, but why though? Why just to have Era Wong 2.0? And it's just, I don't know, I feel as if some bits are written by competent writer, you know, and then other bits are written by a teenager, if that makes sense. It flips between the two so much and it really makes it redundant at times, you know, when you think, oh, the game's ended. Oh no, the villain's alive. Oh, shoot them. And no more is that apparent than with the fight you have against Ustanak, who is the tyrant of this game. And the idea is cool. You know, he's quite... a relatively intimidating foe because you have to run away from him you can't really fight him until the very end and as stupid as it is it is pretty cool that jake is pulling up fisticuffs against that kind of thing but the one thing that really annoys me is just you know the fact you keep killing him he goes into the lava and then somehow he keeps surviving and you're just like the game doesn't know when to end it just keeps going on and on and on a bit like myself but I digress. It just keeps going on. think, when is this game going to end?
01:18:36
Speaker
And again, with the Ada stuff, am I just clutching my perils here when I say there's a lot of weird choices in objectification when for the female characters, and I've seen see the concept art of some of the alternative outfits that we're going to give to some people. Let me say the female characters do not come out of it well. Again, it's just I'm not mad.
01:18:55
Speaker
Come come, I'm just very, very disappointed but yeah there's no consistency for this particular virus because you've got half naked people as i said and then the other half are bug creatures and simmons himself he gets injected and he literally turns into a digimon because he turns into a dog then he turns into a t-rex and then he turns into a giant fly And I'm going to be honest, it went from, oh, that's cool, to, oh, the writer's teenage son got into the writing room again and just wrote this. Again, am I clutching my perils at this, or do you think that's a fair assessment?
01:19:29
Speaker
Assessment, I guess. Certainly, the bit that sticks out in my mind is the bit with Jake and Sherry in the changing room or whatever it is That bit sticks out in the mind, and I think it's great. I mean, I think it's a little bit, unfortunately, of a trend with some of these games. Even looking at some of the stuff about the development of Resident Evil 5, and they're talking about making Shiva, they really want to stress, oh, they want to make this beautiful woman, but who's also like a powerful fighter and stuff. And there's not nothing inherently wrong with that, I suppose, as a concept. but You can never help but feel that there is always this sort of undertone to the way they want to create female characters in this series at points. Yeah, again, it's not maybe not something that I'm particularly a big fan of either, to be honest.
01:20:04
Speaker
I suppose, at the very least, like, I do think they do try to give the female characters some stuff to do, give them important roles in the plot. I suppose at least, you know, whether we think it works all the time or not, I suppose it's a different matter, but at least they are there to have a role. It's not just pure sort of eye candy or fan service type thing. There is at least reasons for them to be, you know, present in the story and everything. But I do think it's a fair point that some of it's not great, I guess, depending on your viewpoint. Like, I do think it can be problematic, to be honest.
01:20:32
Speaker
Again, it's between the bolder and the hard place with this one, because I don't want to be like, oh, you can't have strong female characters who are also attractive. But yeah, i feel as if. that's not really a Resident Evil 6 problem solely. I feel as if that's a kind of Capcom problem and within the horror genre as a whole that idea of having these types of characters and these inappropriate situations like yeah I totally agree with that. I completely rolled my eyes when you had that scene where they escape from the facility of Neo Umbrella which I thought was a cool idea. I thought Neo Umbrella sounded like a totally cooler name than Tricell in the fifth game. But yeah, you've got Jake shirtless and then you've got Sherry in the most inappropriate hospital gown. It's not even a hospital gown. It's like, you know why they've put her in that. It's all, oh, look.
01:21:29
Speaker
they're getting closer and i mean it is kind of sweet that jake looks away and everything and he's quite polite to her and again it's like there are elements where you're just like yeah great the whole ada bursting from the cocoon thing i was like oh this is him this is odd Thanks Capcom for this. It's more of a Capcom issue. One thing I thought was quite funny, and I don't know if you remember this, but one thing I did laugh at quite a bit was I am so used to see the remakes now of Leon's character in 2 and 4, and they have taken out some of his more inappropriate comments away towards women. So you know in 4 where Ada shoots off and she goes away and he's left sitting in the boat and he rolls his eyes and he goes, ugh, woman. and things like that and you're like oh dear that doesn't hold up today but then they've changed it to him saying something like oh story of my life and everything it's so weird seeing the old characterization of leon where trying to flirt with people and he's like oh my gosh it's one of the few things i'm not going to
01:22:31
Speaker
levy against the game because it is probably a product of the time and everything and that's how Leon was represented. At the same time though, what did you think of the globetrotting in this game? Did you feel as if this was a good part of the game or did you feel as if there wasn't much to If one thing I'd say is i think it gives it maybe a slightly distinctive feel to some of the other games in the mainline series, which I think it can be a good thing. Yeah.
01:22:59
Speaker
location where i was like oh that was a lot of fun i really enjoyed being in that location i remember the europe is eonia the european esque country i remember bits of that remember bits of stuff in china stuff and i suppose there's some of the bits isn't there with leon and helein in somewhere in america So i can kind of vaguely remember these sort of settings, but again, there's nothing that I think that memorable, unfortunately. And again, it's not maybe trying to evoke the same type experience as things like 4 and some of the older games were.
01:23:27
Speaker
But again, just when you think of some the Resident Evil, or certainly when I think of some the Resident Evil games, I'm always drawn to things like the Spencer Mansion, the Raccoon City Police Department, the castle in Resident Evil 4.
01:23:37
Speaker
There's just nothing like that to me in 5, and especially in 6 as well, especially As much as I think the Globetrotting is an interesting idea, and again, it fits in with the bigger scale, and I suppose it does give a bit of a unique element to Six, I just don't think there was anything that was that stand out to me that made me think, oh I really enjoyed visiting this part of the game.
01:23:55
Speaker
You know, it was just all sort of blurs in a bit to the slog that I found the game, to be honest. I've still got trauma, see, from Ada's first mission, and you're on that damn ship trying to get out, and the amount of times I think I ended up drowning because I just couldn't find my way out, and i'm like, oh, God, I... hate this so much. That was probably the only memorable bit for me, but no, I'm totally with you there. Each game, and it is weird to say, but each game definitely has, as you said, that one iconic location, like with Spencer's Mansion, with the Racken City Police Department, with the castle. I was thinking about this when you were talking about the bombasticness, as it were, of this game, that for all the over-the-top action in the fifth game, I know I feel as if we really, really emphasise that for the fifth game that oh it's just Chris punching boulders and oh he's punching zombies and things like that they're infected. I forgot how slow the fifth game can be in terms of building up an atmosphere especially the beginning it doesn't just drop you into the action it drops you in into this West African village and you're walking through, you've got all of the inhabitants looking at you very distrusting. you meet Sheva, you meet your informant and things, and then that slowly builds up to the infection, and then you're isolated and stuck in this
01:25:12
Speaker
infected village and you have to fight your way out. The build up for that was very slow. They built up the atmosphere. It was very methodical. And again, some bits work, some bits definitely didn't. But at least I felt as if they had an idea that they were still remembering, oh, this is a horror game.
01:25:28
Speaker
But for all the action games that were coming out at the time, they just said oh we need an explosion at the very beginning oh we need leon to pew pew everything oh we need this we need that it felt as if you couldn't breathe in this game but there's no part of this game where i think you were able just to relax and go through at your own pace maybe at the beginning of leon's story where you're going through the university campus ah thought that was quite interesting. You're like, oh, this is quite slow and it's building up stuff. But then you've got the grubbly monsters and then you've got actual zombies that come out the ground in the cemetery. Then you've got, is it right in saying the booby gas monster? Because I cannot remember the name of it. lot of this is going to very Left 4 Dead inspired. But yeah, that's probably an apt description, to be honest. Yeah, it's very inappropriate. Just slap a sensor bar over it. Because it is not a fun time. And again, you've got that whole thing of the city that Leon's in and he's supposed to be protecting the president and to cover up, they nook the city and everything.
01:26:33
Speaker
Remember how big of a deal that was in Resident Evil 2 and 3, where you had to rush against the clock and try and get out of there before the whole city was going to get destroyed? Whereas in this one, it's kind of an after thought because you see it you go oh no how terrible and then you have to move on to the next set piece where Hunnigan Leon's assistant helps or rather one of the government agents helps him out by putting him on a plane to China we've got a massive outbreak of the C virus there which I have to admit that was one of my favorite scenes of this See where it's like the kind of pre-rendered scene, and I think it was one they used a lot for the promotion, where it's Chris yelling down the phone at Leon and Helena yelling, get out of there, there's a bomb that's about to go off, it blows up, the blue smoke just rolls through the city, and then you've got all the zombies that just pop out. It's so well done.
01:27:24
Speaker
But the thing is, you don't really, no pun intended, you don't have time to breathe for these moments. It's like, oh no, this whole city in China has been infected, how awful. Anyway, let's move on to the next set piece, you know. And even with Ada realising that this guy, Simmons, had cloned her, essentially, and tricked a woman into, i think it was the woman who turns, her name's Carla, and she was his head of research or genetic engineering, that kind of thing. And then he tricks her into taking the virus, if you read the lore and everything. And she turns into Ada and decides to create new umbrella on the back of that and make Ada Walt look bad for some reason, even though nobody would know who Ada Wong is, except for obviously the core cast, you know, because you've got people going, oh my god, it's Ada Wong, and then you're like, why would anybody know who Ada Wong was? It's like, no one would know. That's a bit of a nitpick for the plot, but that we could spend hours talking about how much the plot doesn't make sense, but we kind of joked about it in the opening skit, but they don't give you enough time to ruminate on anything, do they? Not at all. It does feel like it's trying to shuffle you from one kind of set piece another, it's interesting this is something that i did see in a fair few criticism of the game they do have these slow sections but they really don't fill the purpose of what slow sections should do and what they have done in previous games where like if we take resident evil 4 again for example so obviously you know once you've done the initial but you get into the very famous village square fight and which is a very high octane high tension battle against the ganados and everything and then After that, though, it dies down, and then you have a very quieter, kind of a little bit spooky trip through the farm section everything, and that kind of slows the pace, and I guess brings a bit more of that spooky tension to it and everything.
01:29:07
Speaker
And other games have done that, in the series, have done that quite well as well, where it seems that in Resident Evil 6 you do get these slow bits, but they don't really build anything. They just sort of feel like they're there to artificially slow things down and drag it out a bit and really don't seem to add much to the experience. In fact, you probably do just kind of forget about them too much because you just think about the set piece kind of stuff. It feels like a kind of weird inclusion that doesn't really fit with the game because it's not really a tense experience, to be honest, or like a very particularly horror-filled one So it's like, what are these sections doing? it's not even like really downtime, really, to be honest. It drags out a bit too long. So It's just unevenly paced, to be honest, which is a shame. It feels like they weren't able to bring it together into the kind of cohesive experience I guess they were hoping. And that does summarise it perfectly, to be honest, because I feel as well, and I don't know how you felt about it when you first played it, but I felt like a lot of the enemies in this game didn't necessarily feel like Resident Evil. evil enemies, you know, you've got your zombies and everything, oh look, oh no, your mutations of creatures, and then you've got the bugs and you're like, okay, this is a bit, technically it has happened before, you know, especially with 5, the game before it, but then As I said, you've got the T-Rex, which makes no sense. The Javel, who are the... It's as if they've taken them out of another FPS game, because the Javel are just zombies with guns, because you come across certain zombies that do have guns, but, you know, they've got no sense of how to use it. They just fire it off randomly and in random directions, because they've obviously had these weapons before they've turned, so you can kind of understand that. But the Javel just souped up.
01:30:48
Speaker
almost super soldiers that you have to fight against. And as I said, when you're pummeling through half of them, you're like, this isn't tense. It doesn't feel, I don't know, it doesn't feel tense or you're on the edge of your seat going, oh, what's going to happen next? Because honestly, hit the nail on the head there that when you get your downtime moments and your slow moments, it doesn't really add anything because the idea of a slow moment is special. especially in a horror game, is it's supposed to build up that tension of, oh, what's coming next? What is going to be popping around that corner?
01:31:19
Speaker
Are you going to be able to face it or not? Or are you going to have to run away from it? You've got that, especially in the second remake of Resident Evil 2, where you hear the footsteps, you absolutely you know what yourself, because you know what's coming next. You don't know.
01:31:34
Speaker
And you just have to make sure that you're prepared as normal. But there's So many moments like that where, especially the aftermath of the bomb that goes off in China, and you've got the smoke coming through and everything, and you're just, you're rolling your eyes going, can this car speed up? if And it's like, nope, we're going to 2020. Let's just go on this. little you're like Oh my god, this is excruciating. This is just one of the worst experiences of a horror game I've ever played. And again, you know, I wouldn't even count this as a horror game. It's got horror elements in it. As I said, I can understand why they went in this direction, but I feel as if, as a kind of summary of my thoughts about this game, it's way too bloated.
Capcom's Strategic Reboot Post-Resident Evil 6
01:32:17
Speaker
It's too convoluted. The themes that they tried to attempt, some of them really worked. and I really like the way they've added to the lore of it but other things like the C virus I did not like that at all I thought that was just silly the whole Ada plot line it was just convoluted and over the top Leon and Chris's story was probably the closest I got to enjoy game and bits of Jake's as well but I don't know
01:32:42
Speaker
It feels like one step forward and a hundred back, but flipping it onto to you, what are your final thoughts of this game? The too bloated comment, I think, is the one that I would totally agree with.
01:32:54
Speaker
And I think it's, the trouble is that if you don't gel with this game and you don't get into it, there's just, there's too much of it And it becomes, it's not a fun thing to play at any point, which is a real shame. So definitely too bloated. I think it's a game that I look at that I'm sad that the ambition they had for it just didn't come together. I think there is things to admire in some of the plots, some of the storylines, of the story elements. And I think the idea of having these sort of four distinct campaigns, I actually think is a very good idea. and I think Capcom should be praised for the ambition of trying to accomplish it.
01:33:30
Speaker
Unfortunately, it proved to be too much for them to do. but I think it really is a shame. And I do look at it with a lot of regret, this one. because I do think there is stuff in here that could have made this a really standout game in this series. Now, again, whether you like the direction it went or not is sort of immaterial, in my opinion, to it. I think if they'd been able to pull off what they wanted to do, it could have been a really standout entry to kind of made it quite distinct from the other sort of games in the series. But alas, wasn't to be. And we are sort of left with, in my opinion, as you say, something that's too bloated. And I just don't think it's got the fun factor. It's not got the fun factor or the kind of scare factor of the other games. And in that way, it's just something that's quite forgettable, sadly. honestly, something that I don't really have any desire to go back and play, which I think is a real shame. I actually went back to play bits and pieces of it before we hopped on tonight. And honestly, I just didn't enjoy myself.
01:34:20
Speaker
I think that the action gameplay and everything is relatively well done though, and kind of ending on a positive note as it were. I think the action gameplay is a lot tighter in this game as opposed to the fourth and fifth game where you had that stand and deliver gameplay loop. you had to get fixed in one position and be like stand and deliver and then shoot them and hope that they didn't get to you first but that is one of the few things i think definitely worked in it but i feel as if they kind of went too far in creating more of a not a first person but the over the shoulder third person shooter like we've had before with other games especially with stuff like gears of war and whatnot which i feel as if Gears of War, ironically enough, did that better than this game, but again, that's a whole month for another day, of course. This kind of game, when I think about the people who like this game, the people that I do think of are the ones who probably played this at the time as a co-op game. You know, don't get me wrong, there will be hardcore fans out there that will absolutely adore this game. They will defend it to the death because, like, you anything Resident Evil was amazing. But I can see why people would have fun with this game because is it's over the top it's goofy it's very action heavy and whatnot but I can see why people would love it a bit like why I enjoyed Resident Evil 5 more when I was playing it with you than when I was playing it by myself because definitely leans into that and unfortunately there's lot elements like that that feel quite awkward because almost feels like you're playing a different game because half of it is you're fighting for your life in a pit with this massive monster and then on the other side got I don't know somebody else pulling a lever and be like it's okay guys so it's like completely different and you miss the action in some parts especially at the very end of the Leon campaign where think Helena is trapped in an office block and all you can do is look down at Leon and Ada fighting for the lives what will say and this might be slightly controversial to the strippers out there but I did like the dynamic between Ada and Leon. thought it was quite a sweet dynamic that he was still very protective over and, you know, there's arguments that, oh, they only knew each other for a few days and whatnot.
01:36:40
Speaker
But I don't know. I thought that was nice, the way they did that. Again, the main thing about this is the ambition. I've said this before half-jokingly that I am of course a Sonic fan. I have seen what ambition does to a game when the developers aren't ready. Especially something like Sonico 6 where you know it's a massive game, they have massive ideas and then they're like nah nah nah we can't pull this off and it's such a shame. And I think to a degree Capcom have pulled off this game but I don't think they've fully realised it if that makes sense.
01:37:12
Speaker
100 it's something that i think can imagine the development team probably being sad that perhaps they didn't get to realize what they had hoped and i think the scale just ran away from them and i think video games are and have been for a while a very expensive and time-consuming thing to make you've only got a limited amount of time and so um i think just over ambition can be and has been a killer for games like all the way probably back to their early days we've seen that plenty of times know i think of things like daikatana and stuff like over ambition can be a total killer. And I think it claimed another victim here in Resident Evil 6. And I think, unfortunately, what also hasn't helped Resident Evil 6's sort of legacy is that the Capcom's telling of their own history, it seems like, in recent years, where the years after Resident Evil 6 are seen as the real low point and the real time of woe for Capcom, where everything was wrong and revenue was down and the studio was not in a good place.
01:38:02
Speaker
And then come the end of 2016, especially through 2017, they sort of righted the ship with things like... Monster Hunter, and then obviously Resident Evil 7 is a big part of that story of their rebirth to where they are now. And they're again a very well respected and very well liked company in the video game space. So I think the fact that they kind of in their own telling Resident Evil 6 is one of these things that started to s sink them to their kind of rock bottom.
01:38:26
Speaker
Doesn't help it. Doesn't help it. So in a way, it maybe seems that Resident Evil 6 and Capcom don't look at it as a very fond memory or don't maybe don't look at it very wistfully at all. Instead, they look at the way they brought it back from the brink. So yeah, it's a shame. I think it's a real shame what happened to this. And I can understand. I know people really do like this game and that's great. It's always great when people do enjoy a game, you know, and I think it does seem like if you really can sort of get to grips with the combat and meet it on its own terms, you can have a lot of fun playing it. I still don't think it probably removes the rough edges of this game and not everybody's going to have that experience. experience just because of the way the game is you know it's just not going to be for everybody so i think it's a shame i think it's a real shame what happened to it and it's a shame anyway we weren't able to get that big sort of globe trotting mega blockbuster entry into the series i think would have made a really nice unique entry whether you completely liked the direction or not and not say it's not fun because the game is functional so it's not i'm not trying to say it's not a functional game but you know the reality had matched the vision that capcom wanted I think it could have been a really, really interesting entry into the franchise. But again, that's not the world we live in, sadly. And that is the sad thing as well, that we've got this game that clearly they put in a lot of loose threads in this game. Like, for example, at the end of Ada's story, which I find this weird that this is the post-credit scene for Ada's story, but you've got Jake. Wesker who is, don't know, technically it's Jake Miller, but Jake Wesker who is in this random village that's been overrun by b o w creatures and he has become this almost saviour figure going from place to place and I thought that was an interesting idea. I was like, oh cool, I wonder how they're going to carry that on from here. And it's a bit like, you know that scene from Toy Story 2 where Woody's like, oh yeah, put on the next episode! We'll do
01:40:08
Speaker
Ross Rector's like, there was the last episode, Woody. And you're like, oh my god. So it's a shame because I feel as if, bar the loose reference here or there, because I think it was one of the Resident Evil films recently, the animated ones, where Chris is talking to Jill.
01:40:27
Speaker
And there's quite a poignant conversation that they both have. And, you know, he talks about not taking risks and how he a lost one of his colleagues, Pierce. because he took the virus and jill talks about the trauma of being overtaken by wesker was really damaging to her mental health as it were to put it you know very loosely but the fact is that this game is definitely a product of its time and it's one of those cult games i think that while people do enjoy it and while people say oh this is an amazing game it's you know a lot of fun it's so goofy it's so over the top a bit like how you and I watch really bad movies but at the same time man it is as you said it's a rough playing experience especially if you're playing it on your own and that's not a slight at anyone who's playing it on their own but if you're playing it on your own and you think oh I can't wait to play this game play the other ones even five I would recommend and again I wasn't the biggest fan of five but I think that both of these games for all their flaws do have redeeming qualities so if you are curious then absolutely feel free to check it out.
01:41:33
Speaker
I'm not going to promise that you're going to enjoy it but if you do enjoy it even better and again I just want to highlight something that you said there Adam that if you enjoy this game ah don't let anybody who says oh Resident Evil 6 is a terrible game and you should feel bad or oh Resident Evil 5 suck that kind of thing If you like these games or you had very memorable experiences with them, don't let anybody say, oh, that's terrible, you should feel bad, you know? And I always say that, we both say that, but it's definitely a game that, if you enjoyed it, if you loved it, absolutely, Billy, feel free, go ahead. But in summary, These are controversial entries into the series for a reason and unfortunately they do feel like staples of the time that unfortunately, well fortunately and unfortunately caused Capcom to reboot the entire series which of course led to Resident Evil 7 and 8 which of course we will indeed be talking about next week and I honestly can't wait for it because I did not get spooked for a full couple of I was just not to talk about it. So on that note, Adam, thank you so much for putting up with me in my terrible shooting in Resident Evil 5 and yet discussing these controversial but time capsule games, as it were, of the Resident Evil franchise. It's my pleasure. And you know what? It was a lot of fun to revisit Resident Evil 5. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you it's the greatest game in the franchise, but it's one that I still hold a lot of fondness for. You know, I said it was my first game in this franchise. I feel like it really got me into playing the rest of them. So I will always hold it fondly. i always think it's a really good co-op experience. I, again, don't have that same fondness for Six, sadly, but I still think, you know what, there's stuff in that game to admire. And I think it's just a really interesting period for this franchise, to be honest. It's interesting what was going on at the time. I think it's interesting where the series was going, the reaction to it. And I think it's the legacy of these two games. I think particularly Six is fascinating.
01:43:29
Speaker
And, you know, whatever it's worth, I think we can't take away that they sold well these games at the end of the day. So I don't think Capcom were mad to go down this direction with the franchise. Obviously, it didn't pay off in the long run, but, you know, I think it makes for the interesting period. So I was more than happy to come and talk about them. so Thank you very much for having me. Absolutely. It was a pleasure having in your back and and the guy i apologize had to be about raising that you And Evil 5 and 6. I swear to goodness, next time you're back, we will get a cheerier subject. We'll get one. Definitely. A lot more. It's enjoyable, the right word.
01:43:59
Speaker
but Enjoyable in a different way. Yes, very true. Not in a deadly premonition way, more in an objectively good way here. But yeah, thank you all so, so much for listening to this episode. And of course, if you want to listen to more of our episodes of Resident Evil Month, as well as other episodes from ourselves, then you can check us out at our website, chatsanami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. I also want to thank our amazing Pandalorian patrons, Robotic Battle Toaster, Ghosty, and Cryptic 1991. Thank you so, so much for supporting the show. But if you would like access to exclusive episodes, behind-the-scenes content, bloopers, more baking-related puns from Adam and I, then of course you can check us out at our Patreon page, patreon.com forward slash... Chatsunami. This podcast is of course a proud member of the Podpat Collective. For more information, check out our Twitter slash X page at Podpat Collect.
01:44:53
Speaker
But until next time, thank you all so so much for joining. And of course, next week, I will be joined by the one and only Dan from Casting Views to talk about Resident Evil Biohazard and Village. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.