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Showing Up as Your True Self with Ellen Zimmerman
55 Plays1 month ago
Want to lead with confidence and build real connections in the agriculture industry? In this episode, Ellen Zimmerman, Director of Industry Relations for the U.S. Grains Council, shares how embracing authenticity and fostering genuine relationships can make you a magnetic leader!
In this conversation, Ellen dives into:
- Authenticity in Leadership: Her journey to owning how she shows up
- Building Genuine Relationships: Fun tips and tricks to staying connected
- The Power of Mentors: How a “personal board of directors” can guide your career and life
Whether you’re a seasoned pro or just starting your leadership journey, Ellen’s insights will help you show up as your true self and build lasting connections.
Connect with Ellen
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About The Cultivating Leaders Podcast
Real stories. Practical advice. Tangible growth. Join The Cultivating Leaders Podcast, brought to you by Agriculture Future of America, as we explore what it takes to lead in food, agriculture, and beyond. Whether you’re just starting out or leading at the highest level, this podcast is your go-to resource for leadership that matters. Listen now and start cultivating your leadership journey.
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Transcript
Introduction to Cultivating Leaders Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
They're going to tell you through their their body language, through emotions on their face, what they want to talk about. And those are the things you need to be watching for. Like, oh, you got excited about X, tell me why, where did you find that interest? That's not something I'm familiar with. Can you tell me more?
00:00:18
Speaker
i can't tell you the number of times that I've never heard that. Can you tell me more? but Like, just very honestly. And that, again, allows them to really open up, help drive the conversation of what they're comfortable talking about.
00:00:34
Speaker
Welcome to the Cultivating Leaders podcast, where we get inside the minds of leaders to harvest great ideas and lessons that help you grow as a difference maker in food and agriculture. I'm your host and curiosity captain, Nicole Ersig.
Meet Ellen Zimmerman
00:00:46
Speaker
Today we have with us Ellen Zimmerman. Ellen is a seasoned leader in agriculture, currently serving as the Director of Industry Relations for the U.S. Grains Council. With a deep passion for fostering connections and strengthening the industry, Ellen has dedicated her career to building bridges between industry professionals, students, and global markets.
00:01:04
Speaker
Throughout her career, she's been a champion for authentic leadership, believing that the best leaders bring their whole selves to the table. Her work at the U.S. Grains Council focuses on industry engagement, advocacy, and forging meaningful relationships that drive impact.
00:01:17
Speaker
In recognition of her commitment to mentorship and leadership development, Ellen was recently named the AFA Bridge Builder Award winner, an honor that celebrates individuals who create opportunities for young professionals and emerging leaders in agriculture.
00:01:30
Speaker
Beyond her professional work, Ellen is known for her ability to connect with people in an authentic, inspiring way, helping others find confidence in their own leadership voices. Ellen, welcome to the Cultivating Leaders podcast.
00:01:41
Speaker
Thanks so much for being with us today. Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to
Ellen's Love for the Color Yellow
00:01:45
Speaker
be here. Well, let's dive right in. I just gave a little bit of your background, but what is something that people wouldn't know about you from perusing your LinkedIn profile or what I just told them? Yeah. So I had two things that came to mind immediately. The first is I have a great passion for the color yellow.
00:02:03
Speaker
it is you know not just my favorite color. i think of it more of like a way of life. it's the first word I said as a baby. And yeah, it's just always been like core to who I am and how I show up, I would say.
00:02:16
Speaker
And then the other fun thing that I would say I get a lot of questions and people notice are my glasses. So I have lots of glasses that I coordinate with outfits. So those would be kind of my my two quick ones today. I love that. If you do not know Ellen, and obviously this is an audio platform. So Ellen is coming to us today with bright blue gri glasses. And if you know her in person, she has impeccable outfits. They always match whatever the vibe is of the day. She is wearing her color yellow, of course.
00:02:45
Speaker
ah We've got what a yellow Stanley, a yellow phone case. There is always yellow. Yes, two phone cases. i have a work phone and a personal phone, and they both have yellow cases. I'm always wearing my yellow watch band, too. So always have at least a little bit of yellow.
00:02:58
Speaker
Okay, think because I know you, ah the color yellow is such a fitting for your personality because it's so sunny and bright. ah But okay, you said you've liked yellow since you were obviously an infant. So is that like, what's the purpose of the color yellow? What does it mean to you?
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, like I think that you kind of summed it up well. It's very bright, sunshiny. I think it's very welcoming. I've heard someone can certainly fact check me on this, but I've heard like especially like a pastel yellow is very calming. And so you'll see that in like school walls a lot that are painted like a like a soft yellow of sorts.
00:03:35
Speaker
And I've just always like it. It makes me so happy. Like yellow is the first word I said as a baby is more like Lello, right? And then um mom my mom and dad always said the first like full thought I shared was Lolo makes me happy. And to to this day, it's very true. know, it just makes me so happy.
00:03:54
Speaker
oh I love that so much. That just like warms my heart. yeah So I think your ah personality and your style and fashion is
Vibrant Style and Leadership
00:04:03
Speaker
so... it it totally ties into what we want to talk about today in authentic leadership. Because when Ellen walks into a room, you know that she's there, ah but not in like in a very sunny, positive way. And in a way where like, when you just said that thing about the pastels, it makes me think like you are already thinking of how can I benefit the other people in this room, even with just the clothes that I'm wearing?
00:04:24
Speaker
Where does that come from? that's That's a really good question of where does it come from? i don't know that I have a good answer. What I can say is that it has been, a lot of like reflection and and work on myself to have I don't know if even the confidence but just be comfortable being like yeah I'm gonna these crazy bright blue glasses because they make me happy i am gonna bright blue colors because they make me happy and it's taken me some time to to be comfortable enough in my own skin and then comfortable enough in my my work product to know that
00:05:03
Speaker
It doesn't matter that I am the most boldly dressed person in the room. I'm still going to execute to my very best ability. And I've been able to like set that expectation. And again, it's been a lot of like personal work to be able ah to walk into rooms that way.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think a lot of times, especially in agriculture, right?
Navigating Professional Dress Codes
00:05:22
Speaker
Like we're a fairly conservative industry. i like we both came up through the world of of FFA, right? Like you wear pantyhose, you're buttoned up.
00:05:31
Speaker
and And a lot of times professionalism is very tied into neutral colors. Like don't be too bold. Don't be too much. um Tell me about that journey that you've been on of like, no, I can be my whole self and also be a strong professional that it in this industry that people are going to listen to. And, and I think Ellen, I'm going to speak for you, but I think it's part of your magic as well. Like it makes you very magnetic.
00:05:56
Speaker
ah Thank you. Yeah. So actually i would say it starts with the FFA, honestly, where the, it's a very like prescribed the way you look, the way you show up in that official dress and don't get me wrong, huge, huge respect for that blue corduroy jacket.
00:06:12
Speaker
um But there's just kind of like two kind of defining moments when I think about me and official dress that that plays into that. So the first, I did public speaking um contest, the the CDE.
00:06:23
Speaker
And again, if you know me, probably even if this is your first time hearing me, I like to talk. It comes out pretty obviously. So I was like really jazzed about the public speaking contest. And I also played basketball. um And the public speaking contest in Ohio is in the winter. And so for every speaking contest, I was either coming straight from basketball practice to be able to compete or going straight from that ah competition back to basketball practice. And I think it was it was either districts or regionals of my freshman year.
00:06:57
Speaker
so I was doing the creed. Little freshman Ellen and I wore pants. I didn't have pantyhose, which was okay. I had my jacket, but I was coming from practice. Again, for those that are listening on audio, I have pretty crazy curly hair too, which just adds to the the bigness of me walking into a room.
00:07:18
Speaker
ah But after basketball practice, you know, there's not really recovering the the hair for the day after three hours of running. So I pulled it back in like a ponytail and it was like ah a best of a like clean bun, not a messy bun of the the early 2000s era. ah But like,
00:07:35
Speaker
We've all done those, but yeah. like I was like very intentional. I like want this to look as nice as possible. And they gave me a zero on professional dress um because of my hair. And it was like noted like messy style or something like that in the scorecard.
00:07:50
Speaker
um So that was like a very defining moment of like, I tried really hard and it still wasn't good enough. I will say I did, I still won the contest. um So my words must've hit home even with a zero on my attire.
00:08:05
Speaker
And so that was like really one moment that i I'll never forget, like, seeing that zero because of literally the way I showed up still in a professional dress. So that was one. And then the other is I was like super proud to be wearing, the official national FFA a line skirt. Like that was my Christmas gift one year.
00:08:26
Speaker
And I got a lot of comments that that skirt was terrible and like, didn't look good with, uh, my jacket. I don't know if it was like, my body type, the size, I couldn't tell you, but I have several people commented like, that skirt does not go, like, you look ridiculous.
00:08:42
Speaker
And that was like a ah pretty big blow because it was the official one. Like my parents, that i asked for the official one. I got it for Christmas. was so excited to wear it and just kind of got like, pass on that Ellen.
00:08:54
Speaker
Good try, but no. And so those two moments. Like you're trying to follow the rules to a T. Like i have the National FFA official skirt. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I those two moments, specifically as it's tied to like a very prescribed outfit, I carried that with me for a long time, for sure. Tell me more about your journey. Okay. so you've had these experiences where it's like appearance obviously matters, but you can try so hard to fit the mold and follow the rules and still it not be enough.
00:09:22
Speaker
So how did that impact the way that you have like grew up and transformed into the professional that you are today where you're like, I'm going to show up as me and that's going to be what helps me win?
00:09:34
Speaker
Yeah. I think it was you know in that reflection of I tried my best. I did follow the rules and it still wasn't good enough. So Why do that? Not that, again, that I was unhappy in my official dress, but why go through all of that extra effort to to not be true Ellen and still you know not get um ah W on the comments on people's thoughts, on people's opinions?
00:09:56
Speaker
And the i would say the standard or expected professional dress, I think some people can really rock that and look that and make it look really great. I don't feel comfortable in that. I don't feel confident in that. And In settings where I need to wear a suit, that is performative in some way, right? And so I want to feel confident. I want to feel comfortable. yeah And my personality doesn't really match it either. Like, as soon
Colors, Confidence, and Supportive Relationships
00:10:24
Speaker
as I start talking, they're to be like, you look real ridiculous in this black suit. Like, that just doesn't go with...
00:10:30
Speaker
with who I am. And so I think, again, it took a lot of time and it was like slowly, maybe not like at a conference, but at a board meeting when it's just like 10 people, right? Kind of stepping out in in a bold color or or something like that, that made me feel more comfortable and more confident. And I can feel the difference.
00:10:51
Speaker
ah Yellow is my favorite color, maybe is my power color. And if I'm in Navy, i can dress that Navy up in a lot of fun ways and still feel really powerful. And so I think it's just really, again, making sure I feel as good as I sound and in every way I can control.
00:11:07
Speaker
I love that. I think it also, whether you realize it or not, I think it says something to other women in agriculture. I know that even in in my career, the like what is acceptable dress and not, I did not intend this entire podcast to be about fashion, but this is relevant because I saw something recently where um the new secretary of agriculture, Brooke Rollins, her, one of her photos that was, you know, published as they're announcing her as secretary of ag, she's wearing a hot pink blazer in front of the U.S. app.
00:11:35
Speaker
no And I was like that. Like, I love that. And I love seeing, you know, at AFA events, so many young women show up in colors that are bold and different. And whether it's a purple blazer because I'm a K-Stater – Orange because you go to Oklahoma State. I love ah like it honestly starts a lot of conversations sometimes too. It can can be a way to connect with people showing up in something that makes you feel comfortable. Or like you said, Navy is my power color. It's going to give you some energy when you walk into a room or have a hard conversation.
00:12:06
Speaker
I feel like so many people, and and I must say young leaders, but people in general, right, feel like they need to act a certain way or show up a certain way to feel like they're taken seriously. How did you develop confidence in your unique leadership voice?
00:12:20
Speaker
I think I have been extremely lucky to be surrounded by um people that make me feel comfortable, that I've been able to build a really good relationship with.
00:12:31
Speaker
And that has allowed me to then be that person for for new people we're bringing into the circle, right? and and so Being able to be surrounded by people who ask my opinion, who listen when I am sharing thoughts, that started for me at a very early stage in my career. And it was those people around me that really helped to build my confidence. The other thing I would say is and this has been the case, even with some additional experience and years under my belt now,
00:13:00
Speaker
I am just Ellen. i don't like i don't have the ability to to turn off pieces of my personality, the part of my reactions. And that can be a really good thing. I think it's a really good thing. But if you if we're at happy hour, if we're at brunch on the weekend, if we're talking about...
00:13:21
Speaker
If I'm just chilling with my friends at home, that is the same Ellen that is going to show up in boardrooms on a stage giving presentations. It's the exact same person. i feel a lot of feelings. I react very big. And my my current board members saw me just two weeks ago getting shaky excited about something because I was just so jazzed about the things we were talking about.
00:13:45
Speaker
I have let us wheel loose in a board meeting because I was just so dang excited. and that that's not, you know, performative or something I'm making up. That's true feeling. That's true feeling. I get excited about stuff. I make the most out of every situation. I've had this stuff yeah who knows how many thousands of envelopes throughout my professional career doing some sort of member outreach.
00:14:06
Speaker
I'm going to have a good time doing that. I call those stuffing parties. When we have to pack pallets for meetings, those are packing parties. I am going to have a good time. And that that is the truth, no matter what setting I'm in.
00:14:19
Speaker
i think that's so great, Ellen, because i think people can see you in like a leadership role on a stage and also the bringing your authentic fun self to the parts of leadership that I think a lot of people don't see. Right. Like we have all been at a trade show, packing up a trade show booth.
00:14:34
Speaker
And how much that sucks. And it's typically late at night and you're exhausted and tired. And you're telling me like, I'm going to bring my whole self to it and I'm going to have a good time doing it. I think that is so inspiring. And that's the mark of, I think, true leadership, right? When you can show up and bring that full energy, full self and the strengths that you have into situations that maybe even aren't necessarily fun.
00:14:56
Speaker
So I love that. We talked a lot about young Ellen, and I'm curious, looking back, what do you wish your younger self knew about leadership? I think, you know, I've really honestly hit on some of that already of like, you can be your true self and successful. You can be full Ellen in every room. Cause again, it like I, and I never turned it off cause I don't have that ability But I did feel self-conscious about it. You know, like, even though that is how I was showing up, there was still definitely like moments of doubt of like, maybe I shouldn't have gotten shaky excited in front of the entire board when I'm talking about some membership campaign, right?
00:15:34
Speaker
Those things that I feel comfortable doing now have taken me some time to get to that point and and kind of at least lessen or slow down the second guessing of that. And so I'm thankful I've been able to kind of reach this point and I'm excited to see, you know, I can still be a young professional. I'm not sure.
00:15:55
Speaker
You absolutely are. Yes. Yes. you you okay good. I hope as I get more tenure, more wisdom, I'm excited to see like what that, what that feels like in the future, because I have been able to just be Ellen all of the time.
00:16:09
Speaker
And I'm thankful for the confidence now and kind of the the process that I have undergone as an individual to get there. you ever deal with imposter syndrome?
Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
00:16:22
Speaker
oh Yes, so much. So much. I've read books on it. i I'm not shy about saying like, I go to therapy, I have a coach, like all of the things, all of the things.
00:16:35
Speaker
And I think All of that stems from some sort of imposter syndrome. I mean, you heard it here. Can I still be a ah young professional? I ask myself at least, at least twice a day, am i old enough to be making this decision? I ask myself that too. Right? like When you look around the room for the adult and realize it's you. Yeah. like Oh, shoot. Yeah.
00:16:55
Speaker
We were talking about signatures on something and they're like, well, whoever's the one like responsible executing the program should be the one who sides off on this form. And they're like, that's you. I was like, me? I'm, if that's me, I'm the one that wants to sign it.
00:17:09
Speaker
Okay. I'll sign the form. So yeah, absolutely. I definitely feel that and always have. And I both want to cure myself of that and also keep a little piece of that too, because I do think it kind of helps me like stay in check. Like what am I working towards? How am I working towards it?
00:17:28
Speaker
Who's helped me get there? i think those pieces of the questioning that I go through, are good and and should stay. The other ones that are more doubt leaning of you're not old enough, you don't know enough, those aren't helpful. The questions I should be getting, like what additional information do I need to feel confident, not I don't know enough.
00:17:49
Speaker
Right. But I think those are the difference between imposter syndrome and being like authentic to to who you are and and what you know and and where you want to go. What I hear you saying, Ellen, is there is a good part of imposter syndrome that like, honestly, if if maybe we don't feel a little bit, then we're maybe not pushing ourselves hard enough because imposter syndrome is sometimes, at least for me, a signal that I'm stepping outside of my comfort zone. And that is typically good.
00:18:17
Speaker
And also the way to kind of help heal and help deal with the negative emotions that come with that is sometimes just doing the reps and put like doing it anyway, using the tools in your your toolbox, talking to other people about it.
00:18:32
Speaker
And it helps you push through to get through the icky part or the not so fun part feeling of of imposter syndrome. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. That's exactly it. And I think it's it's really interesting to talk about because I don't know about you. When I looked at ah professionals or people that I admired in the industry, I, in my head when I was younger at least, put them put a lot of people on a pedestal and never realized like when you said you're like, I'm just Ellen, like we're all just human and dealing with these same things, right? Like whether it's imposter syndrome or a little bit of fear or like, oh yeah, I'm the adult in the room now. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:05
Speaker
Yeah. And ah that that is really important to me. And the team that I work with, the team that I have the the great fortune of leading, I don't hide those questions or those pieces from them because i don't know that, um you know, my my mentors or previous leaders were intentionally hiding them, hiding those questions.
00:19:27
Speaker
But I hope that if they know like I'm questioning this or like I don't feel but I don't have enough information to feel confident with this ah decision and that sort of thing that's going to empower them to ask those same questions.
00:19:39
Speaker
If I'm showing up very honestly, very ah i i think feedback is really important. It can also be really hard. And so I'm very honest about how I'm feeling in those conversations of like, this is a really important conversation I want to have with you.
00:19:55
Speaker
It's also not easy for me. So like be with me in that. And um I don't hide those pieces from my team because again, I want them to show up and tell me when they don't feel great about a really important conversation, but we still have to have it Yes.
00:20:11
Speaker
I think that authenticity can lead to deeper relationships. And while the hard conversations never get easier, it can help at least show the humanity when you have to have those hard conversations.
00:20:23
Speaker
Yes. yeah So you are like your job is building relationships
Building Connections through Personal Touches
00:20:28
Speaker
with people. ah Tell me one I think everything we've talked about here, agriculture is a people business and you're you're a people person.
00:20:35
Speaker
What tips do you have for us on building connections and building relationships, especially with people in agriculture? Yeah. Oh, good question. And you're exactly right. Agriculture is a people business. I yeah'm in the business of building relationships. That's the the goal of of my job. And so i think some ways that I've been successful in building relationships is being willing to share a little bit about myself, again, giving someone else that permission signaling to them that this is like open and honest. And i loved that you intro being the curious captain, i think asking questions, right? Like that's
00:21:12
Speaker
That's all about it. And like finding common ground. i have been in a lot of different situations with different types of people. i feel fortunate. I've been able to travel to a lot of different countries.
00:21:24
Speaker
At the end of the day, we're all just human. And how can, how can I be curious with someone to learn something about them or share a piece of of me that allows us to connect together? beyond, you know, we're having rainy weather here in Washington, D.C. That's a good start, but like there's so much more we could talk about, right?
00:21:42
Speaker
but Yes. What's your tip for getting beyond that, especially in people of different cultures? When I travel other places, I always know the tipping culture where I'm going and who their president is.
00:21:55
Speaker
And those seem like maybe some obscure specific factoids to have. Yeah, the president one is interesting to me, but I like it. Yeah, well, everyone knows the president of the United States. That's true. And everyone, everyone does. And so i feel like it's only appropriate. I know at least that amount of information about where I'm going, about the person I'm meeting. And so that is like, I know they're going to know my president. I want to know their their emperor, their president, their king, who whatever it may be, their prime minister, their of where I'm going. and Because again, that shows that I'm coming into this with good faith, with and good intentions. I want to know about you and and that sort of thing, just as I hope they're, you know, showing that they know my president as like something common to talk about, right?
00:22:41
Speaker
yeah It's hard to like nail a specific, i'll say like, oh, do this. ah Listen truly to listen with curiosity. Ask questions about the small little factoids or you seem really interested in x Can you tell me how you got that interest? um You know, something very simple that you're going to hear as someone sharing pieces of them, an update, that sort of thing.
00:23:05
Speaker
they're They're going to come, they're going to show you what they want to talk about and be able to connect with. I can talk about my outfits till my face turns blue, but that's maybe not what they want to talk about. So let them show you in those first couple of questions what they want to talk about.
00:23:18
Speaker
I like that. Can you tell me more? That's a good one to have in your back pocket too, to just ask people. What about staying in touch with people? Because you've built relationships across countries, across cultures.
00:23:30
Speaker
You spend a lot of time on a plane. I know you live in a, like you grew up in Ohio, but now you live in DC. So what about like you meet these people and how do you continue to cultivate the relationship once you've had that initial connection? even though you may not see them for ah while. Yeah, there's a lot of different ways that I do that.
00:23:47
Speaker
I, of course, use like social media, LinkedIn. That is an easy, obvious way, low-hanging fruit. For the people that I care about, I hope they know that I care about them because they're probably receiving three to four cards a year from me, birthday, for their anniversaries, for their job anniversary, for the holidays.
00:24:07
Speaker
i send... little kids birthday cards. i send probably 400 to 500 cards a year, depending on the the who, the what, the why, Mother's Day, I probably send 25 Mother's Day cards to people.
00:24:20
Speaker
Same with Father's Day. i keep what I call emergency correspondence in my bag all of the time. So I always have a blank card, a thank you card and a happy birthday card on me at all times.
00:24:31
Speaker
um but So I can give that to someone that I see in person, or i can send that off in the mail ah quick So I always have cards on me and yeah, ah the people that are close to me receive a lot of cards and and they know that I'm thinking about them wherever that may be. And sometimes I sent several out from from Sioux Falls because that's when I had time in my hotel room earlier this week to to pop a couple of cards in and envelopes and and send them out. So they'll be postmarked Sioux Falls, South Dakota instead of DC. So i would say cards is like a really important piece for me. I love that snail mail just makes people feel so special. Right?
00:25:07
Speaker
Right. My niece actually is turning six today. so oh congrats huge day for the whole family. And she loves, loves getting mail. So she definitely got a card from me at Ellen.
00:25:20
Speaker
I have a lot of little people in my life. My niece is is an example of that. i do lots of FaceTimes or I'll just do videos. I know when my best friend's babies were really little, I would just take a video of me walking to or from work and play like I Spy essentially by myself.
00:25:35
Speaker
Like I spy something green. what's green? and Is that green? Is this green? I've done videos of me reading books or just like a one-sided conversation. And one, I want them to know Ellen is thinking about them and knows them and loves them.
00:25:51
Speaker
But it's also a great parent tool because they'll just open up that Aunt Ellen folder and instead of watching Netflix or whatever, they can scroll pictures and videos of of Aunt Ellen. So I'm like my own YouTube for just the people that I know and love.
00:26:07
Speaker
I love it. You could be the next Miss Rachel, just Aunt Ellen on YouTube. Oh my gosh. Yes, exactly. i am the Miss Rachel for some some littles in my life. So yeah, I would say i use Marco Polo, FaceTime, text.
00:26:21
Speaker
I love an audio message as opposed to just a text so that they can hear my voice and my inflection. I am not a monotone speaker. And so... When I do those voice messages, they could really hear hear the emotion too. So those are just some of my quick quick ways that I keep in touch with my people.
00:26:39
Speaker
What a wonderful pro tip. I love the one, especially for friends or, you know, people with littles in your life. That's, that's a good one. Question for you. If you're sending out all this correspondence at it'd be digital or mail or whatever it may be.
00:26:54
Speaker
Are you overwhelmed with the, uh, notifications responses back number of things that now it's like you have sent something out and now there's more things to respond to? um no, no.
00:27:06
Speaker
No, I don't feel overwhelmed by that. I just kind of, I have a process when I sit down on an airplane, personal text first, work text, WhatsApp, Teams, messages next, and then I'll go to my email and do as much as i can until lose connectivity, taking off.
00:27:25
Speaker
And then would have a to-do list on the plane that's either Wi-Fi or not Wi-Fi connected, so I can keep moving and No, it's just like part of part of my process. If I get in the car, same thing.
00:27:37
Speaker
Personal messages, work messages, emails. And I just kind of work through it like that bit by bit. yeah I think you're the first person to ever say like that, at least that I've talked to, you that's not like, oh my gosh, I have a million emails and that doesn't overwhelm me. But I love your process.
00:27:53
Speaker
I may need to steal some of that. By all means. I hope it helps. You've talked a lot, Ellen, in this conversation around like people that have influenced you and that part of your success has been because of other mentors or other voices that you've had and that's allowed you to be it for other people.
00:28:10
Speaker
What advice do you have for emerging leaders who want to connect with someone and cultivate a mentorship that can help them, who can support them in an authentic way, who can help them be their authentic
Guidance and Support Systems for Leaders
00:28:21
Speaker
selves?
00:28:21
Speaker
Oh, I love this question. So I actually got this from an AFA leaders conference or webinar or something from AFA that I got this piece of advice about a personal board of directors.
00:28:34
Speaker
And that it has been like huge for me. One, it took a lot of pressure off me of like finding the mentor that I'm going to be able to like connect with and like foster a relationship with. And they have to have all the answers because I have questions and I need answers to being able to say, like okay, like here is who I'm going to talk to I think they're a really great manager of people. So I'm going to ask them mine my people management questions.
00:29:00
Speaker
This person, i love their career path. So I'm going ask them about how they like made the moves in their career to get where they wanted to be. This person has like really great hiring practices. of i love being in an interview with them. So going talk to this person about that.
00:29:14
Speaker
And that allowed me want to keep surrounding myself with really great voices, took the pressure off me of picking the one single correct mentor. And it also takes a lot less time of each one of those personal board of directors. Because like I said, I got a lot of questions and I want answers.
00:29:31
Speaker
And I can kind of spread the love of who I'm pinging and how often I'm pinging them. Not that I think that any one of them would say like no to asking a question, but I think in like a true respect of their time, I'm not i'm not ki hitting them up every week, every day, every month. It's a much more like casual and less time intensive relationship for both of us.
00:29:51
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. That's great that's great advice. What do you do when you get advice from your board of directors or feedback that maybe you don't like or don't agree with? Huh. Good question.
00:30:02
Speaker
i would say asking more questions. i My dad always says life is all about perspectives. And if I'm hearing something that I don't even agree with from one of those people that are on my board of directors, I'm not understanding their perspective or I've not shared enough about my perspective for them to really like kind of see where I'm coming from. If it's advice that's like, oh gosh, like I don't like the way that feels coming at me.
00:30:26
Speaker
I think it's all about perspective and and asking more questions to understand why they think that is. And and through that line of questioning, maybe i end up agreeing with them or being like, okay, That's not my experience. That's not my perspective.
00:30:38
Speaker
This advice doesn't apply to me. But I really appreciate the learning I've been able to do in partnership with them. One of the things you said that really struck me it is you may not have explained yourself well enough.
00:30:49
Speaker
Or they may not understand where you're coming from. think especially young leaders and especially when you're talking at a power dynamic of someone you look up to, it can be hard to push through. okay they're selling me something i don't agree with or don't – going to say I don't want to hear, but maybe I just haven't explained myself well enough.
00:31:07
Speaker
What advice or what tips or or how do you push through and know when like, hey – I need to share more versus i think some people, the natural thing is to retreat and defer, right? To someone, especially in a, in a position of power. Yeah.
00:31:22
Speaker
I think a lot of that depends on that personal relationship that you have with that person. And then also like, what, what is the format in which you're communicating? Maybe you're currently texting or emailing and you need to make it a voice call or a Teams or a Zoom and that sort of thing. Because again, like understanding that perspective, where they're coming from, what else is going on in their life that they're they're coming at you like that? What else is going in your life that you're hearing it that way. And and so I would say switch up the communication format and ask more questions.
00:31:56
Speaker
I like it. ah One of the things we've talked about is, and I think this leads into it, right, is having that confidence when you show up at work. What are some small but maybe powerful habits or tips that you can give us to show up with confidence?
00:32:08
Speaker
I would say an obvious and easy one, have a routine. I actually have lots of different types of routines that come into my life at different times. I have a routine at home where I am sharing a bathroom with my husband and getting ready for the day and sharing a commute with him.
00:32:24
Speaker
have a different routine that I'm in a hotel by myself on my way to work. So I would say get a routine. And one of the things that is in all of my routines is I say, you're okay, Ellen, a lot.
00:32:37
Speaker
You're okay, Ellen. You are okay. And I have an excellent playlist that I can like pick a song and be like, it's go time. And I'm happy to share that playlist. But for me, again, just kind of like mixing up what what you're hearing kind of can reset things for you. So if it's if it's not a song for you, is it an audio recording from someone that you care about? Is it a reel that really speaks to you? is it The intro of a podcast.
00:33:04
Speaker
I don't know. Find something that you can hop in and when you when you walk through the door whatever, it's go time. It's go time. Security, airport security is one of those like transition moments for me. i i love the work I do.
00:33:19
Speaker
also really love my husband and my home and my friends and I'm gone a lot. And walking through security is like, okay, now you get to do what you love. Here we go. and And then it's go time. Where did you get the idea or how did you start building those routines? Not feeling confident, not feeling powerful, not feeling myself and figuring out what helped.
00:33:42
Speaker
make me feel that way. so I would say, you know, i have certain songs that I've been listening to since I was trying to feel confident walking on a basketball court in, I don't know, 2006 in junior high to some of those songs are the exact same songs that I listened to before i do a presentation to to a board. Yeah, just kind of feeling When I'm not feeling awesome, not feeling confident and trying things that but fix it.
00:34:06
Speaker
Yeah. It's almost like you've created just a little toolbox that anytime you can reach into and I'm going to try this or I'm going to try this. yeahp Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, let's, we are getting to the end of our conversation, but couple just more quick hits, rapid fire type of questions.
Leadership Philosophy: Radical Candor
00:34:22
Speaker
If you had to sum up your leadership philosophy in one sentence, Ellen, what would it be? Radical candor. I want to dive into that, but I said rapid fire. ah What is one book, podcast, or leadership resource that has shaped the way you lead? This will allow you to dig in deeper.
00:34:37
Speaker
Radical Candor. It is a book that I just absolutely loved. And I want to lead and be that Radical Candor. Okay, I have to. ah If anyone has listened to any of these episodes, they already know that I am a book nerd. And I love Kim Scott. Radical Candor is a great read.
00:34:54
Speaker
Curious, how do you balance the radical candor? Because some of the things she talks about are super direct, right? With like being kind, and going to say gentle, but also like, clear as kind. And you and I mean, she there's some things in there that almost come across as mean.
00:35:12
Speaker
So one, I want to know, how did you discover it? And two, how do you apply radical candor in your in your career and in your job? Yeah. so someone recommended the book to me and I read it. And a lot of that was like, o that's coming off like really strong. I don't know if that's me. I do say, i would say for me, clear is kind.
00:35:29
Speaker
How that plays out a lot is I don't want my team to ever guess how I'm feeling about what a direction about an idea that could be like, oh, I don't like that off the bat.
00:35:42
Speaker
Let's workshop this. Or I'm really, really excited about that. Here are the problems I see and X, Y, Z. Again, I'm very expressive. You're going hear it. You're going to see it. And my team never has to guess how I'm feeling about anything. I hope that's mostly mostly a good thing. But I do think I'm being very clear. I'm very clear with expectations. And I hope they see that as a kindness that they don't have to guess or try and maneuver around expectations, best practices. Where do we go next?
00:36:09
Speaker
would say that that's one way. And the other is, as I'm developing myself as a leader, have found those difficult conversations that are maybe around performance or like disagreements, or that's not how we are going to show up as a team. Those type of things, I really swing the pendulum from being like the person the kind Ellen and that we know and see, at least I hope to you've messed up. You did not meet expectations. And now I'm dropping the hammer. i have been working to find somewhere in the middle.
00:36:40
Speaker
that's kind of what I was talking about earlier. Like, this isn't comfortable for me. And when I'm not comfortable, I'm going to go to like, I've overthought this. I've over-processed this. These are the three things I need to say. going to say it and it's over. That's a disservice to me. And that's a disservice to them. And so trying to get more communicative in that discomfort with my people to say, i don't like play this feels.
00:37:02
Speaker
Here's what I got to say. How can we get better together moving on? Yeah. Well, I think you found your middle right there. But ah what I think you illustrated, Ellen, is is in those hard conversations, sometimes our tendency can be to, now I must stick to a script.
00:37:17
Speaker
And exactly what you talked about, like the Ellen that people see every day. And if you go scripted, that's going to feel super weird. And that's going to feel unsafe or scary to anyone that you're managing or leading versus being like, hey, this sucks. It's not a conversation I want to have. It's uncomfortable for me, but here's what I need to share.
00:37:35
Speaker
And it's still clear and it's still honest, but it gets the message across. So yes, Radical Candor is highly recommend, both me and Ellen. Also, if anyone is a masterclass person, Kim Scott has a masterclass on Radical Candor too. It's a great watch. They do, there's like scripted things. So you can see what it looks, what radical candor looks like done well and what it looks like when it's harmful, because it can also be really harmful if we're all too direct, right?
00:38:02
Speaker
We can't be jerks. So that's not what it's about. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Good. Good tip. I like it. Thank you, Nicole. Yeah. Okay. So what is, we're going to go back to rapid fire. I'm queen of rabbit holes. So thank you for going down that one with me.
00:38:15
Speaker
ah What is one small action someone listening today could take to start leading with authenticity?
Enhancing Authenticity with Power Colors
00:38:21
Speaker
Pick your power color. What makes you feel really good? Mine is hot pink. I got pink in my background and you can't see my artwork, but yes, mine's hot pink. So I love that, Ellen. I love that. Navy blue is yours.
00:38:31
Speaker
and yellow. You kind of have it too. Well, I am so grateful for this time today, Ellen. i think this conversation has been fun and insightful and also I think is just such a good illustration of why you are AFA's Bridge Builder Award winner.
00:38:46
Speaker
ah You know, just creating connections with people and showing up authentically. And if you haven't met her, you will know her by her glasses and and the color yellow when you see her out in the industry. She's at lots of events.
00:38:58
Speaker
So Ellen, for anyone who wants to connect with you, wants to learn more, where's the best place that they can find you? ah You can find me on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, of course, Ellen S. Zimmerman everywhere. That is also my email, ellenassimmerman at gmail.com. And um once we get connected, happy to share my phone number as well. And always happy to connect.
00:39:20
Speaker
ah in any way, because of those amazing people through AFA and all of those other places that built a bridge to me, I am never going to deny the opportunity to build a bridge to someone else. So I would love to connect. Thanks so much for being with us, Ellen.
00:39:34
Speaker
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