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Building Team Trust in Times of Change with Jake Worcester
36 Plays1 month ago
In this episode of The Cultivating Leaders Podcast, host Nicole Erceg sits down with Jake Worcester, Vice President of Development at National 4-H Council, to explore the art of navigating change in today’s evolving workplace. Jake shares practical strategies for leading through transitions, fostering a strong team culture in remote environments, and building trust and resilience in times of uncertainty. Whether you’re leading a remote team or adapting to workplace shifts, this conversation is packed with actionable insights to help you lead with confidence and clarity.
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About The Cultivating Leaders Podcast
Real stories. Practical advice. Tangible growth. Join The Cultivating Leaders Podcast, brought to you by Agriculture Future of America, as we explore what it takes to lead in food, agriculture, and beyond. Whether you’re just starting out or leading at the highest level, this podcast is your go-to resource for leadership that matters. Listen now and start cultivating your leadership journey.
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Transcript
Introduction to Cultivating Leaders Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to the Cultivating Leaders podcast, where we get inside the minds of leaders to harvest great ideas and lessons that help you grow as a difference maker in food and agriculture. I'm your host and curiosity captain, Nicole Ursig.
Guest Introduction: Jake Worcester and Youth Leadership
00:00:17
Speaker
Today, I am super excited to introduce you to someone who has had an incredible impact on youth development and leadership in agriculture, and as a fellow Wildcats, Go Cats, we love K-State, Jake Worcester.
00:00:29
Speaker
Jake currently serves as the Vice President of Development for National 4-H Council, where he champions ah efforts that fuel the growth of young leaders across the nation. With a rich background that includes serving as the President and CEO of the Kansas 4-H Foundation and holding leadership roles that have combined strategy, fundraising, program development, Jake's career is marked by a deep commitment to empowering youth.
00:00:52
Speaker
His extensive experience in nonprofit management and his dedication to fostering leadership in agriculture has driven meaningful progress in supporting youth and community initiatives.
Jake's Background and Influence of Kansas
00:01:02
Speaker
Jake, welcome to the pod. So happy to be here, Nicole. Thanks for inviting me. And that bio was over the top generous. So thank you for that. But glad to be here with you today. OK, well, what did I miss in the bio? Oh my goodness, not a lot. You know, I've i've been fortunate to ah have some great experiences in my life. I grew up in a wonderful family in Northwest Kansas and my career you know really launched out of my experiences at K-State. And, you know, I've had the real fortune to do some fun things along the way, learn a lot, make a few mistakes and learn from those two and end up in a place where I'm just thrilled to to come to work every day thinking about the next generation of leaders. ah
00:01:43
Speaker
for the agriculture industry and for our country. I love that.
Leadership Journey and Community Involvement
00:01:47
Speaker
Okay, so tell me about your leadership journey. How did it begin and and how did you get where you are today? Yeah, well, like so many of us here, you know i was I was fortunate to have, ah first and foremost, I would say a family that expected a us to engage in our community. and And so from early in my life, I saw the power of but what it meant in a small town to to say we're going to stand up and help our neighbors and and do more. And I think that that bred a confidence and an interest in saying, how can I continue to do that? And I don't know that.
00:02:16
Speaker
When I was a kid, I didn't know it that way. It was just the experience that I had. And ah then certainly got engaged in in organizations, 4-H, FFA, um you know had those experiences through my youth. I was involved in things like student government and sports. you know Really fortunate to grow up in a community where I was able to do the things that I enjoyed doing and have the experiences I wanted to have. And as I went to um you know, went to college and had a great experience as well at K-State that mirrored a lot of that, a lot of organizational involvement, found ways to get engaged and in things that I felt made and the experience better, so
00:02:53
Speaker
the the university, um I really just identified that there was an opportunity to do that in a way that was beneficial
Career Diversity and Empowering the Next Generation
00:03:00
Speaker
for others. And so I've just always had an interest in that and I'm fortunate to have grown up in ah in an environment that encouraged me to be engaged and involved. And that turns out that some of that is leadership. and so um Also, I've had the opportunity in my professional life from early on to to have some unique opportunities and so some chances to to put that to use in different places and have had a variety of experiences. I've worked in corporate the corporate world, I've worked in the nonprofit industry, I've worked in government, I've worked in small current ventures, you know everything in between and you know all of those have given me other unique experiences and opportunities.
00:03:41
Speaker
that have really shaped my, you know, my worldview. And I found a passion now and in philanthropic industry, thinking about how do we help people with resources, invest those resources in a way that makes their communities, our country, our world a better place. And so, and we get to do that in my world, we get to do that through young people, which is a um on those days where I feel like I look around and maybe the world is on fire some days is what it feels like. ah you know Getting to every day work alongside young people and see their passion for for what they're doing, um their wisdom at a young age, their experiences, their interest in in their um you know their peers, in their communities, in their schools, wherever they are.
00:04:30
Speaker
that makes me feel really good about where we're headed and what the future holds, even in the midst of some challenging times.
Defining Leadership: Simplicity and Tactical Approaches
00:04:37
Speaker
So tell me, Jake, what does being a leader mean to you? You know, there's, there's no one definition of leadership, in my opinion, but um in at its basic level, leadership is about saying, I want to help others improve something about the world around us. so And I believe I have the ability to do that. That's what that's to me what being a leader is. And it's so it a combination of being able to not only have a vision of where you want to go,
00:05:07
Speaker
um but also the means and the capacity to help others head in that direction. So there's some there are some technical sides to that in terms of skills and abilities, but but basically it's about having an idea of how we can improve something, whether it's our industry, whether it's our community, whether it's a product, um and putting our talents to use to help others come in that same direction to make that change a reality. So that's that's at a basic level.
00:05:36
Speaker
I love it. So your definition of leadership is all about other people. Sure. Yeah. I mean, leadership is pretty lame if no one is coming with you. And I don't think that meets the definition, right? So yeah, I mean, we have to have the ability to inspire others to move forward. And I think we say things like that. And and it's easy to put that into um context and think, oh, I've got to be inspirational. It's not about charisma.
00:06:02
Speaker
though charisma is a skill or and a characteristic that can help you ah help you in places. It's not about grandiose vision, but it is about having ideas of what the future could look like that's different than today that inspires in others a desire to get to that thing.
00:06:23
Speaker
And so it can be it can't be very simple. It can be very a ah tactical. It can be very tangible. It can also be big and audacious and all those things. But all of that's leadership. It's just different ah different applications of leadership in different places. And we all have the ability to exercise that and to think about what in our world could we have some influence on that would make life better in some way. And if we can do that in a way and convey it in a way that gets others to say, that makes sense and I want to help do that, that's leadership.
Future of Agriculture: Technology and AI Disruption
00:06:56
Speaker
I love it. You have worked at Agriculture Future of America. This is an Agriculture Future of America podcast. ah Talking about the future and being a leader in like creating that vision, what do you think the future of agriculture looks like in 10 years?
00:07:09
Speaker
Gosh, I wish I knew. i That would, I'd be in a really good place if I could tell you what the future of agriculture looked like. um I do believe the future is very different than what we see today in this industry. And I think that's true across many industries. We're seeing such a disruption and I i truly believe we are at a time and entering into probably already in the time of disruption, but accelerating disruption to the way in which work And that disruption is going to have the is going to create significant opportunity, but also significant challenge for so many of us. And so um I think the the the clearest picture of the future I have is that we don't know what jobs are going to look like. We don't know how we're going to get work done. I just know it's going to be very different than today.
00:08:04
Speaker
ah in most places. We're still going to need farmers and ranchers working hard, producing the food we have every day. But the way they do their work is so different today than it was, and I think it will continue to be different tomorrow. um But in our ah you know in our our professional workspaces, the offices, the ah the industry players along the supply chain in administration and management, all of those pieces of the puzzle that takes food from the field to the table. um The way in which those those things get done are going to change immensely. and
00:08:40
Speaker
um want to I really appreciate Scott Galloway, who is a podcaster. I listen to a lot in a number of places. He's a marketing professor at NYU. His view on AI is one that i I have adopted and I believe strongly he's probably right in that he you know he says, ah AI isn't going to take your job, but someone who knows how to use AI to put it to work for them may.
00:09:07
Speaker
and And so that's, I think the future is for is for those who embrace the change that's coming and determine how can we use these new tools, this new this new world we're getting ready to enter um where the idea of technology is going to look different the way we interact with technology
Managing Change with Empathy and Communication
00:09:26
Speaker
is going to be different. How how can those of us um who choose to embrace it, those are the individuals that are going to succeed and be well positioned.
00:09:35
Speaker
And that's that's, I think, the biggest challenge ahead for many of us is to figure out how do we fit into a world that we don't understand yet. Absolutely. so how do ah I mean, obviously, agriculture has changed. The workplace has changed. um And change can be really scary for a lot of people and very unsettling. ah We like consistency. and We like to know what to be able to expect. ah So like you lead a team. You lead in a different type of environment. How how do you lead people through that type of change?
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah, well, one of the things about change is people, the the people who love change are the ones who are who are um you know doing it to others. They're making the change they want to make. you I like to say I like change, I do, as long as I'm controlling it, right? You know, that's that's the reality of ah of change. But you know, change is hard, and and it's a process. And it's, yeah especially in an evolved world, which we we absolutely live in, and in ah in an evolving world, a world of accelerating change,
00:10:35
Speaker
um Those few things that don't change are what we tend to cling to because they provide us stability. And so as we think about leading through change, we think about, and I specifically think about my team, we've undergone a lot of change at National 4-H Council over the last few years. And that's a it's a good thing. We've needed to change. We we need to do things differently.
00:10:55
Speaker
um but it's it's been challenging. And so we're constantly thinking about, and I'm thinking about with my team, you know, how can I help paint a picture of where we're headed? How can I help make that as tangible as possible ah for all the individuals on the team?
00:11:09
Speaker
yeah Talk about some of those changes that you've undergone. Yeah. you know we are We're in the same spaces of a lot of others in terms of how are we implementing new tools, how are we implementing new technologies. ah That's a piece of the change. I actually say we we sometimes maybe complain about those more or they they cause us more heartburn because they're in our day-to-day lives. But the The big changes for us have been a ah significant change in philosophy about how we do business and the way in which we engage with partners. My role ah is development, so I'm thinking about fund development specifically. you know how do we How do we bring the resources together to fuel an organization that serves 6 million youth nationally? It's a big task.
00:11:48
Speaker
And so um we're we are really looking at how do we change our philosophy and the way we interact with our partners to help our partners better understand what we're trying to accomplish and where our mission intersects with their mission and what they're trying to accomplish and to do that in ah you in a modern way and in ah in a forward-looking way in terms of how we we raise our dollars and and make those things happen. We've also made significant changes to who we are as an organization in terms of moving from a very um
00:12:19
Speaker
facilities focused and, and you know, event focused organization into a movement that really is about how do we empower cooperative extension ah systems around the country to to impact youth in a bigger and better way. That shift to a more strategic approach doesn't doesn't happen easily. And for those who have been in the organization and have have kind of built their career around the way we have done it,
00:12:47
Speaker
it is a change and it's challenging. um And, you know, we've also undergone some some significant changes in our just just coming out of the out of the pandemic and and COVID and the great recession or the the great resignation and, ah you know, some turnover. We have new team members. We we have a fabulous team right now, but a lot of new people. And so how do you integrate new associates into teams with with those who have been there a while. Those are all the things that we're working through.
Navigating Change and Emotions in the Workplace
00:13:20
Speaker
One of the things we've found that I believe is true is that the better we can paint a picture of where we're going is is step one to that process of saying, here's where we're trying to get and why it's and why it's important to our mission.
00:13:35
Speaker
i That's a big part of change management. But the other piece that we so often forget about, and and I'm guilty of this just like anyone is, I get excited about where we're heading. I've had time to process it maybe in my role. I've been in more conversations. I've been a part of that decision-making process. You've been able to picture it more clearly. I've been, right. and i' but And I've had time to wrestle with the idea that the way we have done things is not the way we're going to do things. And we forget that then when we roll that change out to a broader audience,
00:14:05
Speaker
they haven't had that same opportunity to wrestle with how this is what this is gonna mean and how this is gonna change, but it feels a lot more abrupt. And we forget that there truly is a, what I believe is a grieving process to change. And it's not it's not it's not necessarily grief in the traditional sense, except that it works a lot the same way, which is there's this thing I'm good at, and I've been good at doing it.
00:14:29
Speaker
I may or may not like doing it. Maybe it's part of my job I do don't like, but I know I'm good at it. And that's important to me. Now you're telling me that is no longer what we're going to do. That thing I knew I was good at that I felt comfortable with, you're taking away from me. It takes ah some time to to grieve the loss of that thing that I knew I did well. And if we don't give people the time to grieve that loss,
00:14:54
Speaker
We end up in a position of trying to get them to adopt a new a new technique, a new process, a new experience um when they aren't yet ready to let go of the old. And so we've got to build in time for that to happen. um I don't believe I do that well all the time, ah but but we do. um When we're intentional about that, we have more success with some of these changes.
00:15:18
Speaker
I love that ah comparison to grief because I think it's easy to notice in organizations, especially with tenured team members, right, who have been there a long time. And they've already seen a lot of change in the organization and they have changed.
00:15:34
Speaker
um and And I think the process of grief comes from because something was so good. And it doesn't mean that the change is bad, or that or it doesn't mean that what we were doing before was bad. um The new future may be great, but we are letting go of something good, and that can be really hard. ah Any advice for someone who is maybe managing a team? Because I think about like someone who is, we're we're going to continue to see changes in the workplace.
00:16:00
Speaker
um And I think the challenge for a lot of leaders is how do we hang on to those good people and not lose them in the change? ah To give any advice for giving some time for that grief and how to lead a team member through that um so that you don't you don't lose them along the way, or that they don't experience too much, I would say, emotional turmoil from the change.
00:16:20
Speaker
Well, one of the one piece of advice, I guess, or or or at least experience that I've had, yield um like it works better than others, is um is very intentionally building in time to acknowledge that that um that loss.
00:16:36
Speaker
Right? And to have those conversations that are very open and transparent, authentic around the fact that, you know, hey, I know this is different for you. And that's going to mean this thing, you know, this thing you've done that you've done so well is not something that we're going to do anymore.
00:16:55
Speaker
I'm sure that has to be hard. You know, it's having those those just open conversations about that and being willing to listen and to think about and to ah process with them what that looks like and how that must feel.
00:17:08
Speaker
and you know wouldn't um Some of us are better, and I'm not one that would claim I'm great at this, but some of us are better than others at at consoling someone in a time of grief. You know, they lose a loved one. um Some people are so wonderful at it. Others are challenged by it. What I've always thought, though, is um those are the moments where, you know, the best we can do is be authentic and be ourselves and be vulnerable and just say, I'm here and I'm listening and I want to know, I want you to know I care about you and I want you to tell me about this this person or this, you know.
00:17:40
Speaker
ah That makes sense to us. But then when we do it in the workplace and we're thinking about a change in terms of they're losing a process, they're losing ah a role, they're losing a a a team, maybe their team is changing, you know and they're losing individuals in which they felt, we don't approach it the same way. And I wonder why. like What if we did approach it the same way? What if we said to them, I know you're losing something here. Tell me about it. Tell me what you loved about the team we've had.
00:18:11
Speaker
And then in the process of talking about that, we have the opportunity to begin to move forward to um talking about the team we're going to have, talking about the role that person is going to have, talking about the contribution they can make to the organization going forward. And so I think if we...
00:18:26
Speaker
can exert ourselves in those moments authentically and vulnerably, and to be able to remember we've gone through it before too, then we put ourselves in a position of potentially having much greater success in that that place.
00:18:42
Speaker
I really love this comparison because yeah it's just honestly, you're almost thinking thinking of it as a way of celebrating what was and acknowledging what was and the good parts of it and what we enjoyed about it. i mean It's the same thing we would do in grieving anything else. right We're going to celebrate what was, we're going to remember this, and then that process is going to help us move forward.
00:19:03
Speaker
For sure. And lots of times, mean you look at you look at change in an organization and think about what the challenge to to that change is for people. Oftentimes, we can look back afterwards and realize, oh, we didn't take a moment to say thank you for all the great work that had done. What we did was we stopped doing it that way. And that can feel like to someone who's spent a lot of their time, their career, their effort has gone into um a certain ah certain way of doing work.
00:19:31
Speaker
Or to produce a certain product that we're no longer going to make and they've poured their heart and soul into that. Now that's no longer there. um Why wouldn't that be jarring? It should be. And so how can we celebrate it? How can we make sure the appreciation is felt for the great work that has been done to this point?
00:19:46
Speaker
um while also then getting excited about the opportunity to do more and to do it again. So how do we make sure that there's so there that but that change doesn't feel like an attack on their worth, right? And so um that can be a challenge. It can be ah ah a hard one to navigate. But it again is where we have to have a human centric approach to our leadership. Like this isn't just about processes. It isn't just about products. It isn't just about things. It's about people.
00:20:15
Speaker
and people matter, and if the your people matter to you, make sure they know it. Yeah.
Emotions as Strengths and Balancing Professionalism
00:20:21
Speaker
Well, and I think, too, ah ah there's, so in some spaces, right, a mindset of, like, it's just business. Get over it. And, like, it's just business. it does like It's not a big deal. We don't need to bring emotions into this. But I also think, like, if you want passionate, driven people in your organization, there's a lot of emotion in the work, whether it's just ah a project or a process or a product. Like, people care about it. And you want them to, because that's what gets you results. Now, you also have to be able to deal with the other side of it, right, is that when we change,
00:20:49
Speaker
we're going to have some negative emotions that come along with it. That's right. and I love the way you put that in the quote because it's so true. i am I am so blessed to have a wonderful team of individuals I work with at National 4-H Council.
00:21:04
Speaker
And one of the things that makes them so amazing is they are passionate. They are they hi highly engaged and highly emotional about our work and their work. And, um you know, across the board. let's you know ah approximately 30 people ah that are part of my team, you know, of that group, they're all that way in different ways. And that that presents differently. But there's no doubt that there is a lot of emotion, and there is a lot of passion in their work.
00:21:38
Speaker
And so, yes, there are days where I'd love to be able to say, this is business, get over it. um And sometimes there's some truth in that, to be honest, right? Sometimes we need to learn that as professionals, especially as we're growing our career, that there are hard things and ands it's something we need to learn to deal with.
00:21:57
Speaker
But the way to do that is not to tell someone that their feelings arent don't matter. and you know Those are very valid feelings. And so how do we, in the moment, how do we um help them process those, but then also help them grow in the way that they they deal with that? Because I think that's the give and take of this. And that's the place where I see people.
00:22:18
Speaker
um with some some of our, um with youth and with young people and and I think about AFA and college students and getting ready to launch into their careers, you know, we think about what are those skills that they need. One of the skills that I do think is one we have to continue to develop.
00:22:38
Speaker
is the ability to um grapple with and internally be able to handle the fact that, yes, um I have a high degree of emotion and attachment to this thing and and and a belief around this. How does that present in a professional setting? How do I um use that to my advantage, ah to my benefit, to my team's benefit?
00:23:00
Speaker
and not distract from and detract from my ability to get work done in a positive way. Because in the end, if we're going to work, our job is to produce for that organization um and to to provide benefit to that organization because that's the only reason we're there. There is a reality of the fact that work is a transaction, right? I'm doing this thing and producing something and in exchange, you're giving me a paycheck and benefits and a place to exercise my skills. And that's okay. That's ah that's a good thing. and And there can be a lot more to work than just that, but that is basic.
00:23:32
Speaker
At its basic level, that's true. So how do I make sure that I can utilize the emotional attachment I may have to um to my own feelings, the way I'm presenting in the workplace? um How can I use that to my benefit, to my team's benefit, um and make sure that I'm able to process some of the raw emotions before they spill out of my mouth, before they come up in ah in the workplace? um because those a Because those feelings and emotions, I believe, are very valid.
00:24:03
Speaker
But we have a responsibility as individuals to make sure we present them in a way that others can also um understand and help us grapple with. ah And that's the two-way side of this of this approach is it's not only my responsibility as a leader um to acknowledge and to ah validate your emotions, your feelings. I can't validate your emotions, but I can validate your feelings. i you know it's It's not my job.
00:24:33
Speaker
alone to do that. I do believe it's part of my job. I also need you to help me understand what you're feeling in a way that that in the context of the profession that we're in. And so that that challenge is there and I'm i'm way open to to thoughts and ideas about how we do that and and um do that well because I think it's a constant tension we face in the workplace of wanting to be open to the open and and vulnerable about um where we're at, what the impact that has on individuals.
00:25:05
Speaker
while also needing to balance the professional realities of needing to move our organization forward and be successful.
Feedback Strategies and Authentic Leadership
00:25:10
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. What I hear you saying is the the emotions that we have in the workplace are strength, and acknowledging those from a leadership standpoint is incredibly important um to lead people well. But emotions, while they're strength, I had a leadership coach tell me one time, ah he's like, Nicole, do you know what a weakness is? And I was like, Well, gosh, Kevin, what do you mean? He's like, it's a strength taken to an extreme. And I think when we see emotions taken to an extreme, that's where we have some of the challenges in the workplace. And it's finding that
00:25:40
Speaker
that I don't want to say balance, but right sizing of, okay, how do i I bring my authentic self and show that I care and be able to acknowledge my my team's emotions as a leader, but also create good boundaries too of like, um how do I make sure that that my emotions aren't spilling over into causing problems for other people? Exactly. I could not agree more and I love that.
00:26:04
Speaker
ah that concept that most for most of us our weaknesses all can be refrained as overdone strengths. And you know I think that's very true and I'd encourage anyone as they're thinking about kind of evaluating yourself and thinking about how you present in the workplace of yeah where are those places where you would describe a weakness for yourself? Can you think about what the inverse of that is? What's the strength behind that? And how does that present? And and maybe it's about how do I tone down that strength? How do I moderate that strength that I have?
00:26:33
Speaker
Maybe that helps you present in a different way in the workplace. That's a fun way to think about it. Yeah. Yeah. I think about it like music, like the song is really good, but if the music is too loud, it's going to hurt my ears or it's going to hurt other people's ears, right? Just to be vulnerable. I think you know one of the things that I believe is a strength of mine ah is i I like to use humor and I like to have fun. like and i just I think work should be an enjoyable place to be. and if and more engaging as a team. um you know i want I want to have fun. I want to i want to crack jokes. I want to you know be light and and laid back and and enjoyable. And um i would think I think most of the folks I work with would tell you that I do that. um I also know I can overdo it. And there are times where i've got to be where I can become aware that I may be overdoing it. And what it what happens is
00:27:22
Speaker
I come across as less serious. I come across as less, um maybe less dedicated, maybe less interested in the business solution we have to have because I'm cracking jokes, right? I'm i'm still having fun. I'm i'm being sarcastic or self-deprecating or whatever that might be. And so I do have to be aware that I can take that strength that can be a strength and take it too far.
00:27:44
Speaker
And so, um you know, that's an example, and there are lots more for me of where where the that happens. But I'd encourage everyone to think about that. Where do you, where do you have strengths that when you over-present them, they can become weaknesses?
00:27:57
Speaker
I found it's a ah great way to help folks deal with feedback too because I think as we talk about emotions in the workplace, right? Like all of us have gotten hard feedback that it hurts. And okay, how do I address this instead of trying to weakness fix? Okay, where did I turn up too much? and I'm less, it's it's easier to manage through the emotion of that when it's like, Well, you're funny, Jake. Just maybe not funny right now when we're talking about this. Like, it it hurts way less than like, when you, when you start to tell yourself a story of like, Oh, people don't think I'm serious, or I'm not business minded. It completely can help you reframe the story that you tell yourself about your strengths and weaknesses too.
00:28:38
Speaker
Yeah, and if if, one, you can do that for yourself, but also as a leader, you can do that for your for your team, right? You can think about how do I give this feedback in a way that, one, um helps helps deflect early defensiveness, right? And so if you come to me, and Nicole, and you say, Jake, I so appreciate how much joy and fun you bring to our meetings. I think it's so often valuable.
00:29:02
Speaker
Um, that immediately puts me in a good place in a place to be receptive to what you're going to say next. And so if next you're saying, um, but there are times where you may be, you know, you're in your quest to do that. It takes us off course and it makes it feel like what we're talking about isn't as serious. I appreciate talking about how we can, how we can like identify where that is and how I can help you reign that in and be, be able to apply that in the right way.
00:29:26
Speaker
It's a totally different conversation than your comment is inappropriate. you are you know your're You're not serious enough for what we're trying to do. are you you know It lands completely different, right? Which I think then relates to the action that you're going to take to resolve it. That's right. That's right. And this all goes back to the definition of leadership, right? Where we talked about at the very beginning of you know One of the one of the aspects is do I have the capacity to move people toward this thing we're trying to solve this this change we're trying to make and um if I can't convey feedback in a way that that people can grasp and internalize and do something valuable with and instead if I give feedback in a way that causes them to be defensive and shut me out.
00:30:08
Speaker
then I'm not going to be as effective as a leader. And so you may say to me, how tough enough, you need to just hear this and fix this. ah you I know you wouldn't say that, Nicole. But but if somebody says that to me, that they can be right. That can be true. It doesn't mean it's the most effective way to move me, right? It doesn't mean it's the most effective way to get what is best for the team or the organization out of me And that as leaders is the other thing we have to think about is how, you know, all of our actions, we should, in all of our actions, we should attempt to do that. You know, how can I best move this individual in a way that helps the organization, regardless of whether I think that's, yeah you know, silly that I have to do that or that it's it's more work than it should be. That's part of leadership is to figure out what's the work we can do to do that. Saying all of that upfront,
00:31:00
Speaker
I also want to just say, I get it wrong a ton. I don't do that all the time. And it's easy in the midst of work and the stresses and the the things that are piling on to not do that as effectively as we all want to. As leaders, we're humans, we're going to mess up and and often we're going to mess up on our people. I have really enjoyed getting to work with people who recognize when they do it. And you know, I think we all have those moments where like, Oh, I didn't have a great I wasn't great in that interaction or like I got a little bit spicy in that conversation.
Managing Remote Teams: Communication and Interaction
00:31:33
Speaker
And I really value the people that are whether I got a text from someone this morning that was like, Hey, I was a little saucy last night. and I was like, I wasn't upset about it at all. But I loved that she had thought about it and was like, I'm gonna do just make sure that you're okay. And
00:31:46
Speaker
I think it deepened our like those moments deepen the relationship. um They don't hurt it and they don't amplify what someone may have thought was a poor interaction. Look, I would never um advocate for for creating ah challenges so that you can then apologize for them. That's not the right outcome. However, those moments where that happens give us an opportunity. The moments where we screw up give us an opportunity to again be authentic and to build build a closer relationship with individuals.
00:32:15
Speaker
Um, because when someone sends you a text and says, I got a little saucy last night, you have the opportunity to say, I love your sauce and here's why. And and like, we can be in this together and fix this. And sometimes that person's going to say, I got a little saucy and you're gonna be like, yeah, you did. I felt it. Um, but that's okay. And I understand that you. you know, you're passionate, we're doing these things and and and this happens. And so I do think owning that moment and recognizing it. One of the other things, and I i hope that I do this well, I don't know, I probably don't ask for feedback around this enough, but like, ah one of my goals is always to create an environment where my team feels like they can tell me when I screw up. They can tell me, hey, that kind of hurt the way you present that.
00:32:56
Speaker
You know, maybe it didn't hurt, but it rubbed me the wrong way. It was abrasive, you know, whatever that might be. um I didn't like it, whatever that is. I want them to tell me those things. It doesn't always mean that we can fix it right away. And it doesn't mean I even will think I'm wrong. But what it might mean is I have the opportunity to say, I hear you. What it always means is I have the opportunity to say, I hear you. And what it might mean is I can say, let me present it differently and in a different way and help better, and help better convey why.
00:33:22
Speaker
Or I have a chance to learn a lot in those moments, too. And I have a chance to learn a lot in those moments. So, um you know, how do we how do we build an environment? Make sure that we're constantly aware of whether we're building an environment where people feel like they can tell us what they really think. um To me, that's a sign of a great leader is when you when you see a team that's willing to say to the leader,
00:33:43
Speaker
um You know, I hear you, but that I don't like the way that was presented or got a little saucy last night with me. And I would like to talk more about that. So, um, great, great analogy with the sauce, by the way.
00:33:59
Speaker
I can't take credit for it. It was it was all her. ah You were just talking about creating you know creating that that space where you can get feedback or your team can give you feedback. At National 4-H, you guys are 100% remote. ah Talk to me about building ah that type of environment in the 100% remote culture. Oh, it's challenging. And this is the first time I've been in that.
00:34:23
Speaker
that situation. So I've been at Council about two years. so And, um you know, it so many positive things about being remote and there the flexibility it allows. We've been able to tap into to talent across the country. My team stretches from the East Coast of Virginia to the West Coast, San Francisco, Seattle. ah You know, that it's it really spans the country and that is awesome. It also presents a great challenge in creating the environment and the culture that we want to create.
00:34:53
Speaker
And I thrive and I love when I am part of teams that are highly collaborative, that enjoy being with each other and working together.
00:35:04
Speaker
And I believe we've built that kind of team, um but it's not easy and it's ah it's a different approach. So one of the things that we try to do and in most of our team meetings is create space more intentionally than we would if we were all together physically. Create space for some of, I don't know what to even call it, the social aspect of um what's going on in our lives. how are we you know We welcome pets to be part of our video calls, right? You know, we try to encourage, on my team particularly, we very much try to encourage videos on. Not that there aren't times where um we totally respect that someone may have their video off, but video on just gives us a chance to so better connect. I believe that that's something that's valuable with the tools we have today. We can do that easily. and um And so we create lots of opportunities to engage that way.
00:35:52
Speaker
um there are um There are always going to be challenges with it. One of the places I know why i i try to work hard, but I need to continue to work hard is more opportunities for one-on-one engagement with team members who aren't necessarily my direct reports because um I have regular one-on-ones weekly with with all of my direct reports. We think that's important given our remote environment. There's a lot of things that we would handle in a walk by if we were written in the office together and because you don't have that, we need the ability to do that. We also try to create a culture, by the way, where um there was a time in life. You're probably too young to know this. There was a time in life where
00:36:30
Speaker
you would pick up the phone on your desk and dial someone's number and they would pick up and you would talk. And ah that when we had phones on our desks, that's what we did, right? And so we try to encourage an environment where I might ping you on Teams and check in and say, hey, can I give you a quick call? But we want those quick calls. We want those one-offs because they are the, that's the walk by, I walk by the office to stick my head in. I walk by the cubicle and and and chat real quick. That's the moment so that we do that. But also making sure as a leader,
00:37:00
Speaker
Particularly, particularly for those who are leaders of leaders. How do you check in that way with people who aren't your direct report so you don't have as regular a one on one time with it's hard. You have to be so much more intentional you have to create the space. ah One of the downsides of remote work is you know If I schedule that meeting, it feels so much more formal, right? but It's official. And what are we doing? And why why does Jake want to meet with me? Did I do something wrong? you know All of those things happen when I love the opportunity to just check in. And so um I'm convinced continuing to think about how might we do that more effectively and and create that space.
00:37:41
Speaker
um One of the other things we do try to do is very intentionally is at least twice a year we try to get the whole team together and make sure that we are in in one place physically where we can have some time and we schedule some social experiences as part of that. And and that's really important to us. um There is truth and so much value in the idea of that um getting to know someone as a human being creates space to have a much more productive professional relationship.
00:38:11
Speaker
And so, um you know, that's my, if there's one piece of advice for people who are managing remote teams to think about is how do I create more human interaction and opportunities for us to show up as people, not just employees in the, in the workspace. And that creates an environment in which then when you have the hard conversations about work.
00:38:35
Speaker
You're, you're working through that with another human you have a relationship with rather than working through it with someone who all you know of them is the works, the work that they produce. so And that we are all so much more than the work we produce.
Career Advice: Exploration and Dealing with Stagnation
00:38:49
Speaker
Absolutely. This has really gone full circle.
00:38:51
Speaker
Uh, okay. So I want to, um, well, I want to go into one of our fun little segments of this podcast. We call it speed mentoring. So, uh, I'm going to give you a couple of scenarios and, uh, you tell me in one sentence or as short as you can, how you would respond if you were this person's mentor. Okay. Put me on the spot.
00:39:12
Speaker
Okay, so this person is a young professional considering a career in the nonprofit sector, ah but they're concerned about income job stability compared to the for-profit world. So what advice would you give them to weigh these factors and decide what they want to do? Great question. I believe so strongly that the philanthropic sector is a key to moving are our communities and our country forward. It's critical. So in this, you know, in this scenario, um one of my One of the things I would say to ah to a person considering this career would be that a career in the philanthropic industry can be extraordinarily rewarding.
00:39:48
Speaker
And contrary to popular belief, there is an ability to make a living doing it. ah and But you do have to weigh the realities of a situation that says you know there's a likelihood in the philanthropic on a world that your skill set will be compensated dollars and cents wise at a little bit lower value than it could be in ah in a for-profit industry.
00:40:11
Speaker
um That does not mean that you can't make a great living and it doesn't mean you can't have a really fulfilling career. And if that's important to you, then absolutely look at the philanthropic industry as one in which we need great talent and we need people who care a lot. And so, um you you know, I'm a fan of evaluating all your options and seeing what's out there.
00:40:33
Speaker
but But baseline salary dollars are not the only consideration. and and And as long as you can make enough money to do what you want to do in life and and to feel successful, um then finding a career where you where you can feel fulfilled while you do it is really important. Absolutely.
Tips for New Remote Team Leaders
00:40:49
Speaker
I love that. Okay. Next one. This person is feeling stagnant in their current position, but they're unsure if they should pursue ah new opportunities or stay put. What would you advise?
00:41:00
Speaker
One, I'd like to understand how long we've been in our position and how stagnant we're really feeling. Let's say young professional. They've been there three to five years. Three to five years is a great length of time to begin thinking about what's next and what's out there. And, you know, I am always a fan and I will tell this, I'll say this to individuals on my own team. I don't ever think it's a bad idea to see what's in the market for your skill set.
00:41:25
Speaker
And so um exploring a little bit, what's out there, understanding what jobs are available and looking for opportunities that might fit you is always a good thing. I don't think bad things happen when you do that. I think doing that with your eyes wide open is really important though. And I never, um you know, if you're ever in the position where you're looking for a job because you're just ready to move on, then get after it and find that other thing because we're not happy. But if you're happy doing what you're doing and you feel like this is a good thing, but you're kind of itching for what's next,
00:41:54
Speaker
um One, it never hurts to look out around and see what else is out there. Utilize your network, lean into people that you know, and just share with them, hey, I'm feeling a little stagnant. And first and foremost, I should have said this at the very top, I hope you're having that conversation with the u with your leader, whoever your supervisor is. i I know that there are times in my career where I've had individuals who were ready for the next, who who at least they felt themselves. They were ready for the next challenge. They were ready for a promotion. They were ready for a different experience than they were having. But I didn't know it because we they didn't share that with me. Part of that's on me for not asking the right questions. ah but But when we can be open about that in a productive way, I want to help my team members find that next challenge. Sometimes as an organization, we can't do it.
00:42:42
Speaker
um You know, sometimes as an organization, we need this and that's what we need. And we don't have the capacity to provide other opportunities yet, but um I want to have that conversation and at least be open and honest about it as part of that experience.
4-H's Mission and the Beyond Ready Initiative
00:42:56
Speaker
Okay. Last one. Someone is leading a remote team for the very first time. Give me three practical tips that you would tell them of like, here's what I would recommend you do to get started.
00:43:06
Speaker
First and foremost, I would advocate for lots of one on ones early and and lots is relative to the size of your team and and what you have the capacity to fit into your schedule, but create opportunities to spend one on one. and um not unscheduled, but without a lot of structure around what you're going to talk about and get to know your people. So come prepared with questions. yeah What do you want to know about that? What can you learn about them? How can you be curious about their lives? um And and um the thing that I don't do well in that scenario that I would recommend is take good notes. You want to remember those things about individuals. um If they're willing to share with you about their
00:43:45
Speaker
their home life as an example, their family, they've got kids, they've got pets, what they like to do outside of the office, remember those things. It's a challenge. And if you especially have a big team, it can it can get really messy trying to remember all those things. um But spending that time getting to know individuals as individuals is really important.
00:44:05
Speaker
The second thing I would recommend is to create space, and especially as you get out of kind of that initial introductory period. um As you create regular check-ins, I think regular check-ins are much more critical in a remote environment. um I think they're important no matter what, but they're critical in a remote environment. so Whether that's regular team meetings, sub-team meetings, whatever that looks like. In those spaces, always leave a little time whenever possible to create those social moments we talked about earlier.
00:44:34
Speaker
I love that. ah I think we you and I have talked about this before. ah My team is also remote. And we do a question of the week, which is wild. um And it can be everything from like, what's your favorite, like, what's your go to karaoke song? What's your favorite Halloween candy?
00:44:50
Speaker
um all kinds of things and it it creates great conversation and fun bonding experiences. Absolutely. You know, kids do show and tell in school in kindergarten, right? And and show and tell is about creating a bond, creating an environment in which people learn about each other.
00:45:05
Speaker
Show and tell in the adult world doesn't hurt. And there's opportunities, you know, whether you need to have rules around what's what's eligible for show and tell or not, I think it depends on your work environment in the team. But, um you know, an opportunity for people to share things about themselves that make them human, as we said earlier, is so important.
00:45:22
Speaker
Okay, we're going to switch into another segment that we love to do. At AFA, we love hot takes. So controversial opinions, bold opinions, unconventional views. Tell me what is one of your unconventional or hot takes on leadership or organizational growth? Great question. ah I don't know. I don't know if it's a hot take or not. But I believe very strongly that um you know leadership is not about what I am able to accomplish. I believe it is about the position we can put the team so that the team is able to fulfill its role and its experience. And um that's a
00:46:11
Speaker
Probably not a clear answer, and and especially in a podcast format, but I'm thinking specifically about um you know how we how we show up in the workplace and create wins for the entire team really matters. And the best leaders are the ones who may or may not have a lot of spotlight on themselves, but are able to demonstrate that their team um has accomplished a lot.
00:46:33
Speaker
And it's the ability for that team to feel accomplished and that team to feel it has succeeded that is ah that is most important before we talk about external ah realities or external um recognition of that. In the end, that matters. And we've got to be able to move the the organization forward. But if the team doesn't feel successful, it doesn't matter how much you've accomplished, um they've got to feel that success themselves.
00:47:03
Speaker
You're saying your hot take is ah doesn't matter how many win W's you've stacked up if the team doesn't feel like it's a win. That's right. You said it so much better than I did. Thank you for that. I don't know, I was just summarizing it. I think it's a good hot take. Okay, we've got to wrap up, but we've not gotten to talk about 4-H, and I think so many people who are listening to this are probably former 4-H-ers. Just give us a little bit of a synopsis about where National 4-H is today, and is it different from when I was in 4-H, and what does the future look like? These are our future leaders, the future talent pipeline for agriculture, so give us a taste of 4-H. Awesome. Well, thank you for the opportunity to share. You know, we are so excited about where we're at right now at 4-H. I think it's important to know the history to understand where we're at. And 120 years ago, you know, the turn of the last century, the early 1900s, we had a big problem in the world, in the country. And the problem was we weren't sure we were going to be able to feed ourselves. We didn't know how we were going to do it.
00:48:07
Speaker
And we were attempting as ah as a country to get ah producers to adopt new technology and new practices, ah better farming techniques, essentially, ah to grow more food. And what we found is people didn't like changing. We talked about that earlier. They didn't like change, right? And so ah through through efforts of many people, we recognize opportunity to teach young people.
00:48:35
Speaker
and to say, could we change an industry by empowering young people with the skills? And so we began teaching youth in small ah community clubs ah how to farm better. Out of that came the world's greatest food production system we've ever seen. And and I believe 4-H had ah had a critical role in creating an environment in which we not only feed ourselves, we feed the world out of out of out of America.
00:49:06
Speaker
ah And so that's where we began and 120 years later, some things haven't changed. We are still empowering youth to solve the world's greatest problems, our country's greatest problems. The difference is what those challenges are and the ways in which we're engaging youth. So 4-H today, ah we we empower 6 million youth on an annual basis to to grow their skills, to empower to to create better communities in which to live.
00:49:33
Speaker
And we do that in a variety of ways. Many of us grew up in a traditional community club format. We still have a strong community club program across the country. But we also recognize there are a lot of youth we are not reaching that don't have access to that traditional model. So we are thinking about how does 4-H show up in different places and in different ways? Because at the end of the day,
00:49:53
Speaker
It's not whether a young person sits in a community club meeting and and goes to a project meeting. It's do they have access to a caring adult who will learn alongside them, who will help them grow their skills? And in in that spirit, we've launched an an initiative called Beyond Ready that just launched last month during and National 4-H Week, in October during National 4-H Week. And um we are so excited about this initiative because we're looking to grow from 6 million to 10 million youth by 2030.
00:50:21
Speaker
empowering a generation of leaders to be ready for what this changing world is going to bring. And we believe we can do that by by creating and and if we can impact enough youth in this generation, that we're going to create a tipping point where they inspire their peers. And we do create a generation of young people ready for this rapidly changing world. We empower them with skills, of of with with characteristics of resilience. We make sure that they understand how to be adaptable and flexible in the work in in both their work and personal life. um We want to empower a generation that cares about its communities and its peers, that knows that they can have impact here and on themselves and on others, and that that's a good thing.
00:51:04
Speaker
We want to continue the 4-H tradition of service to others, being ah at the forefront of what we do. And we want to make sure that we are empowering that generation in a way that creates opportunity for all. And then at the core, that's our mission, opportunity for all of America's youth. ah And um that's what we're after right now. So a lot of fun things happening.
00:51:24
Speaker
a lot of changes happening and still some great, ah great spots where you can go and you can see 4-H in action the way you maybe remember it if you grew up in it. But you can also see it in action in so many other places and in so many other ways. And um what it takes is caring adults and it takes a system, a cooperative extension system that's aligned to those outcomes.
00:51:45
Speaker
And we are, in the more than a decade now, I've been and involved in 4-H professionally. This is the most aligned the system has ever been across the country, dedicated to creating that generation of young people that are going to change the world. And I'm excited to be part of it.
00:52:00
Speaker
That's awesome. Well, I think this is, I'm actually glad we waited to talk about this till the end, because I think it puts a perfect bow on it from everything we talked about ah around change management. The 4-H that you just described is is absolutely different from the experience that I had. But also, if we think about the type of people and leaders that we're going to need in this changing world, I mean, you talk, like, when we talk about the definition of leadership is being able to serve other people, being able to connect young people with a caring adult.
00:52:26
Speaker
that's setting them up for success to be able to be these types of leaders that can evolve, can change, can can be good, emotionally stable leaders that show up in the workplace. So um that's very exciting. That gets me gets me very excited about the future of agriculture and to think about 10 million youth in 4-H. Wow, that'll be amazing. Okay, so you know, Jake, that at AFA we're all about building bridges. So ah where can people connect to you, find more about you, or the National 4-H Council?
00:52:54
Speaker
Yeah, so for h4 dash h dot.org ah is our is our website. Love for people to come check us out and catch up with what we're doing. I'd love to connect with anyone who'd like to connect on LinkedIn is a great way to find me. ah Personally, ah my last name is spelled Worcester like Worcestershire sauce. Go open your cabinet and look at that. Take the share off. You can find me happy to connect with anyone who who has a passion around this and to talk about where we're headed and what we're doing next.
00:53:20
Speaker
would invite anyone who wants to be part of that process in ah because we know it's going to take a lot of us. We can't do it alone. It's one of the realities ah of philanthropic work is ah we need lots of of individuals. ah We need companies. We know that other organizations, other other nonprofit organizations to all come together around this idea if we're going to be successful. So love to connect with folks, love to be part of that that process.
00:53:46
Speaker
Awesome. Well, Jake, this has been an amazing conversation. I've enjoyed it. I could keep talking to you all day. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Thanks, Nicole. My pleasure. So happy to be with you.