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Niche networking nirvana with Martin Whiskin
27 Plays1 year ago
We all accept that in business, being a 'Jack of all trades and master of none' is a bad thing. Yet so many business people try to be all things to all people. How often have you asked a client who their target audience is, and they have replied 'everyone'?
Voiceover artist Martin Whiskin and filmmaker/photographer Ben Bowles have built a network in a niche. To find out more about the roots of The Creative Collective Networking Group, I invited Martin to join me for a Live Action Networking (LAN) session.
Martin's official biog
Martin is a voiceover artist from Kent and works with brands and organisations like Tesco, Arsenal FC, BBC and Dave’s Fish Bar. He also co-runs The Creative Collective networking group – a networking group for creatives. Funny that.
Martin on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-whiskin-voiceover/
Martin's website - https://www.martinwhiskin.co.uk/
The Creative Collective Networking Group -
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Yesseo Untitled SEO'
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Yesseo Untitled SEO podcast. This is where we do LAN, which is Live Action Networking. Although I do wonder if it ought to be WAN, which is Wide Area Networking. Anyway, I have a guest here today who's now looking at me because I haven't told him what this podcast is about at all.
00:00:20
Speaker
but it is somebody I know. The concept of the podcast is people in tech and to a certain extent people in creativity don't talk to each other enough. We all have skills and we all develop skills and the way we can learn faster is to share our skills as well as it's just nice speaking to people. So the concept of this series of the Untitled SEO podcast is I speak to people and get to know them. So who are you?
00:00:44
Speaker
You know who I am. In this instance, I do actually know the other person, but the people listening don't know who you are. What's your name? Good point.
Meet Martin Whiskin: Voiceover Artist and Longtime Friend
00:00:55
Speaker
My name is Martin Whiskin and my profession is voiceover artist. I've known Andrew for years and years and years through the music form. You played at my wedding reception?
00:01:09
Speaker
We did. That kind of goes, and I put out your album. Well, we put out your album, I should say. Yeah, that was a good time, a good time. Crazy days, crazy days. Again, if I could, but yeah, not now with the kids now, so it's done.
00:01:27
Speaker
But I brought you along, Martin, because you do something I think is really interesting, which did partly inspire the flavour for this season of the SEO podcast.
The Birth of Creative Collective
00:01:38
Speaker
You bring people together, who technically could well be competitors. So I tell you what, I'll let you explain your
00:01:48
Speaker
how your networking group came about. So tell us a name, but then we'll dig into the past. OK, cool. So yeah, the group is called The Creative Collective. And officially, it's The Creative Collective Networking Group. And the reason it's got that on the end, although it sounds boring, is because there are other The Creative Collectives out there doing different stuff, I might add. But yeah, it came about because I'd done loads and loads and loads and loads of networking for my voiceover business.
00:02:17
Speaker
And I felt a bit like I was hitting my head against a brick wall after a while because there's only a certain amount of times you can ask the same people for the same referrals. And I found that, and don't get me wrong, I love networking with everyone.
00:02:32
Speaker
And I built some great friendships through it. But when you're asking, I don't know, an accountant, a mortgage broker for connections into the creative world, they might have one every couple of years, you know, so it wasn't fruitful, really that fruitful. So I thought there's got to be a group somewhere where all these video makers, radio producers, all that sort of stuff that I would need for my work, where they all hang out. So I started asking around and nobody knew of one.
00:03:02
Speaker
And the last person that replied was Ben, who I'd done a little bit of work with before. And actually I had met him, despite what I've said, I did meet him through networking. He makes videos. And he said, well, I don't know of one, so why don't we just start one? So there was obviously a need. He spotted that need before me, even though it was rather obvious. Yeah. And that's how it started. So it kind of came about from a
00:03:26
Speaker
originally a selfish need because I wanted to talk to those people quicker, but has grown into much more than that. It grew really fast as well.
Traditional vs. Creative Networking
00:03:35
Speaker
You invited me along and I spent years just ignoring the existence of networking meetings because in the very early days of SEO, 20 years ago, you just didn't need it. People found out what you did to give you money. It was quite an easy thing to get traction in.
00:03:52
Speaker
But then I started going to networking and I identified very quickly, there was a type of networking I very much didn't like. And I'll say it's BNI, just couldn't get on with it at all. And I used to go along for, in a similar way to how you might watch a channel five documentary. Kind of like, it's almost like a morbid curiosity, but then a couple of things happened that made me never want to go back. Not happened at the group, I should say, but I don't know why I'm even trying to evade this. I don't think anyone at BNI is going to listen to this and come around and kneecap me, but
00:04:22
Speaker
For the people who BNI works for, it works very well. And I think that's trades and certain other things like that. Brilliant. They get in a room, share cards, away they go. But I identified with that very quickly that SEO isn't something people idly just sort of go, give it a go. You know, it requires an investment as does, you know, anything creative. And I do count SEO as being a creative thing. So
00:04:49
Speaker
When you invited me along, I was like, really? I'm not sure there's enough space in the world for another networking thing. I go to one called Pub Networking, which is spreading around the country, which I love. It's run by my friend Milo. I thought, I really don't know about this. And I'll be honest with you. I went along the first time thinking, it's just going to be me and Martin. And I was like, I'm there for you, Martin. I'm definitely there for you. I want to be a part of this. And I'd quite happily just spend an hour chatting with you.
00:05:19
Speaker
But I was really surprised to find there was about 40 people there.
The Rise of Creative Collective
00:05:24
Speaker
Yeah, we were really, really lucky right from the beginning. And I think it's because it's a niche group. So it's just for creatives. We don't say you can't come if you're, you know, whatever. But the idea is that it's for creatives.
00:05:39
Speaker
And I think that's why it became popular quite quickly because it was a different prospect to, like you said, the BNIs that people would have gotten used to. And because of the format as well, I think people talk about the format outside of the group because it's, again, it's not just going around the room for an hour listening to everyone's one-minute pitch because everyone's done that to death.
00:06:05
Speaker
both the groups that host it and the people that have done networking have done that and it's boring. You see people kind of go dead behind the eyes when they when they do their introduction that networking things once and there's not many exceptions. Actually, I was a face to face yesterday called coastal net and Woodbridge here in Suffolk. And that's really fun because we're all we're all together in a very small cafe and people are just like, Hello, I do this and everyone has to like, they've, they've got a similar thing, their energy is, is very, it's quite similar to creative collective, actually, it's not
00:06:35
Speaker
It's not a, Hello, my name's Bill and I organize pensions. It's not, you know, some of the things that come up at Creative Collective Networking Group, when people introduce themselves, make me laugh. And I'm sure they meant to. I'm not just like laughing at people. So rude. So the vibe of it, was this something that you actually thought about and designed?
00:07:04
Speaker
The vibe, no, but I think the structure helps it because it's quite fast paced, you're always doing lots of different things throughout the meeting. And that helps keep everybody on their toes, I think. So there's a lot of energy just naturally. But because me and Ben are just two blokes doing, you know,
00:07:28
Speaker
fun jobs, I guess. We're kind of just really down to earth. I'm not trying to sound arrogant or anything here, but quite friendly people, I think. No, I think it's okay. I don't think anyone should ever apologize for being friendly. It's like when people apologize for creating a brilliant piece of art, they're like, I'm sorry, but I think this is good.
00:07:48
Speaker
You should, shouldn't you? You should be proud of that. I'm one of the friendliest people you could ever meet. There you go. And I think that attract that has helped to attract the right sort of person to the room. And when we get someone through the doors that isn't quite on that wavelength of energy, fun, doesn't mind messing about a bit, they stand out and they realize that and they don't come back.
00:08:15
Speaker
And we don't do it on purpose. We don't, you know, it's just maybe they don't fit in. And that's fine. It's not for everyone. I'll admit that. Well, that's good. I think networking when it does try to be for absolutely everybody, that's when it the only output of that is the color beige. Yes. Because everybody you've got some sort of people who aren't quite as hyper trying to elevate their energy to try and get to where the hyper people are. You've got the hyper people trying to damp themselves down.
00:08:45
Speaker
So everyone ends up just sort of in this band in the middle of...
00:08:48
Speaker
Yeah. And there's groups, there's new all business type groups that are still starting now, which is great. You know, it's awesome that people still want to give things a go, but there was a new one down here in Kent last week that I saw. So, oh, that sounds, that sounds quite good. Sounds like it could be, have some potential there. And I looked at the pictures of it and it's everyone that I've met on all of the other networking groups from around here. So yeah, it's, um, I think there might be a point now where there's too many networking groups.
00:09:17
Speaker
You've really got to be doing something different. I know the exact same thing. I mean, I've been married for many, many years, very happily. But I've I can remember speaking to a friend, a drummer of my band actually a while ago about online dating.
00:09:32
Speaker
He said the problem with online dating is eventually you get to the point where you just recognize every single person on every single website. I think networking could be the same, especially because it's online, the context doesn't change that much. You get to know everyone's like the frame that they sit in. Like, Oh, right, these people again, but also the way that people write up
00:09:54
Speaker
The words that they they hope will attract us to the networking meetings, they all will end up being the same that ones I love the most. And I told myself I wasn't going to list my favorite networking because there's I'm not sure there's a lot of context for many listeners, but I'm going to I'm going to try and contextualize it. I like creative collective networking. Thank you. Thank you.
Community and Communication
00:10:14
Speaker
Because the vibe is just very relaxed and it's creative people and I'm a creative person. And it's just you've carved something out, which is just very nice.
00:10:23
Speaker
I like pub networking because it's in a pub, but also my friend Milo, he's done a similar thing that the stamp that he's put on it is so anti-clique and it's so friendly and it's so non-threatening that it's just wonderful. And the other one is a 4N group called Midweek Music.
00:10:45
Speaker
which annoyingly does clash with the creative collective, which is a pain in the ass really. But it's all because they've got a common niche, they've all got a common thread of things. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Sorry, go on, was you gonna say something else? No, I deliberately didn't ask a question and then I stopped talking to see how long it would take you to pick up the thread and you were really fast. Well done.
00:11:13
Speaker
I mean, that's, that's literally my job is talking. I don't like silences. Although if anyone interested in voiceover is listening in silences in in voiceover is very important as well. How do you invoice for silence? I can do voiceover silences. It's just I mean, I just meant pausing between sentences and what like 10 minute job of just
00:11:35
Speaker
Here's your empty MP3. Maybe that. I have sent one of those before, an empty MP3 to someone. What, deliberately? No. Slightly embarrassing. Yeah, I'd accidentally muted the track before exporting it, but because it was the same length, somehow it remained the same file size. Wow. Yeah, I didn't understand it either, but it was definitely empty.
00:12:01
Speaker
I read your guide notes and it said like very relaxed voice. So I thought, well, what's more relaxed than me being asleep? Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Well, I can't remember what I was going to say now. I know. I threw you under the curve ball. I'm fucking you around. It's fine, man. It's fine. I think you're right. Groups need to be doing something different. And actually I've heard a lot about BNI and I've never been
00:12:29
Speaker
I've been invited a lot, but thus far held off just because I really don't think, from what I've heard, I really don't think it would be me. If you want to see what the total other end of the scale is to Creative Collective, just as an educational exercise, but there's things I'm not going to say in a podcast recording about BNI that I'll share with you separately. Okay. Afterwards, yes. But it works very well for the people who like it. There's always ends on a positive. Exactly.
00:13:02
Speaker
I'm just going to post so you can leave the silence for the longest now. Without this being a hagiography, I'm going to tell you some of the other things I like about Creative Collective Networking Group because they're things that I haven't seen anybody else doing. I'd love to know if these things developed organically or whether you and Ben have
00:13:26
Speaker
really intense meetings, plotting out the next 10 years. So we'll start with the first one, the WhatsApp group, which I mean, go on, tell us about that. There's, yeah, there's a WhatsApp group for members. And there's, I think we've got 39 members now. So there's 39 people in there.
00:13:44
Speaker
And it's wise to mute that group because it just, from day to day, it can have a couple of hundred, 300 messages in it. And if you're out in a meeting or something, you come back, you got no chance of keeping up with it.
00:13:57
Speaker
But it is good fun and it has helped people to bond, I think, because there's people just messing around, dropping gifs in there, voice notes to each other and things. We also have the referral WhatsApp group, which is not for chat, but just for passing work around, basically.
00:14:20
Speaker
I read a book a short while ago called Tribes by Seth Godin and it's about how to create communities or a band of followers and the way to do it is give them
00:14:33
Speaker
something in common, which is the creative roles that they all have, and a mode of communication, which is a WhatsApp group and the networking groups. Me and Ben were talking the other day about how we don't even have to put anything in there some days and people are just talking.
00:14:52
Speaker
And that's job done to me. That's the community has been built now and it can live on its own. It doesn't need us to guide it. We've just got the Zoom license basically. It's a lovely thing and I think it's a very democratic and very transparent way of running a group because it's not ego led.
00:15:17
Speaker
I think sometimes the sort of the tribe type mentality that people like Godin talk about leads to almost a cult leaders. And we do see it a lot in digital marketing. I'm not going to name names, but there are people who are the big players. And it's all just kind of a cult of personality BS thing that I don't really like. It's not friendly, I don't think. Whereas most people in the WhatsApp group seem to spend most of their time ripping the piss out of you, Martin.
00:15:47
Speaker
It has been said. They don't really worship you. I don't want to break that to you and upset you. It's fine. It's fine. I don't mind at all. No, I don't. I was just thinking about it. No, I really don't. It's something that... I think that, again, a lot of the stuff with this group has just happened organically. And if something is me becoming the scapegoat of the group has happened organically because someone once took the mickey out of me and someone else thought, I'm going to try that, then it's fine. It's all part of the...
00:16:17
Speaker
It's just very, I want everybody to enjoy it and I want everybody to take ownership of it and feel welcome and comfortable to muck about with each other. So there's another extension of that which I only became aware of this week and that's you set up working groups on Zoom where, George, tell us a little bit about that rather than me trying to hamfistedly cobble my way through it.
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah, so going back to actually the other question that you asked was, do me and Ben have lots of meetings behind the scenes?
The Value of Online Co-working
00:16:51
Speaker
Not really. We sort of log on 10 minutes before the meeting starts and quickly chat about stuff and then we chat between the breakout rooms. Are we always having ideas for things?
00:17:00
Speaker
And something I've wanted to try for ages is like an online co-working thing because I used to work in offices. And if there's one thing that I miss rather than the regular monthly check, of course, it's having someone to always talk to if you want to.
00:17:21
Speaker
And the obvious way to, you know, you can go to a co-working space, you could have a phone call or a Zoom chat, or I thought, well, maybe we could all just log on to Zoom and work for an hour or so and just chat, light chat every now and then. So we've done it twice now.
00:17:37
Speaker
And we only have like five or six people log on for it because a lot of people in the group are either out on the shoots or when they're voiceovers, they're talking or editing audio so they can't listen to the chat and edit audio at the same time. And it's just a really nice calm atmosphere. I got so much done on yesterday's co-working session. I think we was logged on for three hours in the end.
00:17:58
Speaker
just working away. And every now and then someone would say, I don't know how to do this in Excel. Or, oh, did anyone see this last night? It was literally the sort of stuff you would talk about in an office. Except you're at home. Yeah, it was really, really nice.
00:18:13
Speaker
Matt, who works here at Yesio, said he loved it. He said he got so much done. Yeah. And I really wanted to join you. It's interesting, because I think, obviously, when you have the networking on Zoom, you're very focused. We certainly should be. And I think it's the height of rudeness when you see people that are actually doing something else during the Zoom networking thing. Just leave work, actually doing the work for just a minute and commit to the moment. But
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah, I was really surprised that I heard several reports saying that it's one of the most productive times of the day. Yeah. I was just ticking things off one after the other. It was really, really good and I felt a proper sense of achievement afterwards and that it was just a nice thing. I felt like I'd hung out with some friends for a while. You had. Yeah, exactly. But I think some people still have that
00:19:08
Speaker
mental barrier or hurdle to get over that this digital thing isn't as good as face-to-face. I'm not so sure, but it's still a very, very valuable way to build relationships. I wouldn't have the network I do if it hadn't have been for Zoom networking. It removed so much of the time deficit for networking for me, because I can pop along. I'm still at my desk. I don't have a car.
00:19:36
Speaker
So the networking thing I went to yesterday, I got a lift from my wife there because she happened to be working in the same area. But that was an hour before the session, the session, you know, before the meeting starts. So I sat in a coffee shop for an hour. And then afterwards, I didn't manage to catch a lift back to Ipswich from anyone in the room. So I had to catch a train. So I sat on the platform in Woodbridge with three quarters an hour, a freezingly bum, and then had to pretty much run back to my office for the next meeting. So I lost a whole morning for an hour and a half meeting, which which
00:20:05
Speaker
is nowhere near as kind of a convenient as pop along to zoom. There's a couple of other things I just want to talk about and sort of see where the inspiration came from. So one of the things that's really impressed me that you and Ben do is why I've never really got a name for I'm going to call it manual connections. Because the whole point of going along to a networking thing is somebody says hi, I do you know, I'd say I say I'm senior white haired SEO at
00:20:32
Speaker
at the SEO, and I like to speak to people who run design agencies, people who run design agencies go, all right, that's interesting. And then everyone puts the details in the chat, you know, in several different types of networking group. But it doesn't mean it necessarily happens. What I've noticed that that you do is on LinkedIn, you'll start a group chat between me and someone you think it might be interesting for me to meet. And just say, Hello, Andrew, there's Michelle here.
00:21:01
Speaker
She does this, I think it might be useful for you two to speak to each other. And that's amazing. That's so good. That's worth price of admission alone being like a matchmaking. Matchmaking, that's what it is. Matchmakers. Did they ever have a coffee matchmaker? Yeah. I used to love the coffee ones. But the matchmaking thing then, that, excuse me a second, I just need to clear my throat. I'm going to mute.
Fostering Personal Connections
00:21:38
Speaker
So when I first started networking, actually one of the first events I went to was a face to face chamber of commerce.
00:21:45
Speaker
and the lady who was running the event really nice and still talk to her now. She's always really supportive and I took that on board, being supportive of anyone, no matter what type of business they were, unless they were idiots, of course. And I saw her
00:22:03
Speaker
first hand, she would just say to me, oh, you should meet so-and-so. He runs this digital agency. Oof, connection done. And it was like a match made in heaven, I guess. It was a digital voiceover. And I saw her doing that for the whole meeting, just walking around saying, oh, have you met so-and-so to all different people? And I thought, oh, I'd love to be able to do that. Just put people together and just let them get on with it. Not for any personal reason other than
00:22:31
Speaker
I like to see the result of it. I've put people together and heard them start projects together and you think, that was a well-made connection and that's it. I just love doing it. It's just a fun thing to do as well, I'm guessing. I'm always on the lookout for, I'm a real believer in abundance but I think we can create more abundance
00:22:53
Speaker
but by just being good, just being nice. And it's kind of a cliche that comes up in a lot of self help, you know, like some business development books of if you want to succeed, then make damn sure you help other people succeed, but do it from from the bottom of your heart, don't do it as a step on the ladder up the
00:23:14
Speaker
you know, up to wherever you want to get to. So you're doing that. Well done. This is just a celebration of Martin. Can I come back? Absolutely. So the other thing that I like is the mastermind groups, you sort of set up splinter groups.
Supportive Peer-to-Peer Groups
00:23:33
Speaker
Yeah, we did call it the mastermind group, but I think Ben wanted it to be a bit softer, so we call it the peer-to-peer group, but it's the same sort of thing. Yeah, so like I said, we're always coming up with ideas how to give people more value from their membership.
00:23:50
Speaker
by bringing everyone together to help their businesses in whatever way that is. So one of them is this peer-to-peer group where we meet once a month on a Thursday evening, I think it is, and it's completely different to the networking. So it's very relaxed, no pitching, anything like that. And we just have a top. Ben generally asks the group if they've got any topics they want to talk about. He asks a question and we go around the room discussing this business topic. And we've had laughs. We've had
00:24:19
Speaker
literal tears on these groups because they're really supportive and some of the stuff we've heard on them groups people are incredibly open and giving in what they what they talk about like really personal stuff and it's it's really it's a really special thing and I think a lot of people that is their favorite part of the creative collective is the peer-to-peer support group
00:24:42
Speaker
I think it's really special because it being working for yourself can be so isolating. I mean, it was just me here for like the first 15 years. And hearing other people talk about challenges and it can be something as simple as I'm really annoyed because cash flows gone up the sawnay and I'm owed loads of money and I can't afford groceries. And sometimes it's just nice to hear that and or to voice things like that and have somebody else say me too. And the other way around as well people, some of the things I've heard in the groups,
00:25:13
Speaker
Sometimes it can be people struggling with something that I remember struggling with either recently or years ago and being able to just say, okay, well, I haven't got the answer, but this was my experience of it. I can't think of any other way that you can get that kind of support because I work with a coach who's great, but you don't get that kind of me, you know, oh yeah, I'm there as well kind of thing. We're on the ground. Yeah.
00:25:39
Speaker
I think it's been, for me, the Creative Collective has been a really good leveller of...
Diverse Perspectives in Networking
00:25:49
Speaker
business experience, age, time in business. So, you know, there's people in the group who have been doing it for 40 years, someone like you been doing it for 20, 23, 23 years. And then we've got a couple of people who haven't even started their business yet, but they're in the planning stages. And I think that's amazing because they all, we can all talk about the same sorts of things together and everyone can learn from the innocence or the experience. And I think it's, yeah,
00:26:17
Speaker
It's glorious man, glorious. I love having the people who are just about to start. I had a quick session with a couple of people from the group yesterday and one of them is very experienced in marketing. And just great. And the other person hasn't really started her business yet.
00:26:37
Speaker
And what I realized is the two really great things about that session, I was just showing them how to use LinkedIn Sales Navigator. The thing I really enjoyed about that session is always, I can say the names, that's not doxing anyone, is it? Lisa came with her experience and the way that she looks at data and sees opportunities. And I went, wow, I think she's been in business about as long as I have, I think. And Evelyn,
00:27:08
Speaker
was the other person who hasn't fully started her business yet. I learned more from Evelyn. Lisa was brilliant, but Evelyn's perspective on things, she was asking questions about what, she was like, what's that in sales navigator? I was like, you know, I haven't got a clue. It was the personas thing. She said, well, click on it. And I was like, yeah, I hadn't thought of that. It was brilliant because it's just that reminder that however long you've been in business, it doesn't mean you've sorted it. In fact, I think the longer I'm in business, the more questions I've got.
00:27:36
Speaker
And having that mix of energy was just, God, it's brilliant. It really made my afternoon just that little hour session that we spent together.
Revitalizing Member Enthusiasm
00:27:44
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah, it's a really nice thing, I think, because you've got the inquisitive nature of needing to know everything. And on occasion, I guess, people who've been in business for a long time could think they know everything. But then when there's someone new asking questions, oh, actually, I didn't know that either.
00:28:05
Speaker
It's great. It's also the enthusiasm because we never deny the fact that being in business can be quite difficult and you can get jaded if you don't keep the energy levels up sometimes. So having the enthusiasm of someone who's only six months into their
00:28:23
Speaker
journey. So I use their journey kind of kind of make you go, you know what, I do like this. This is really good. And I do I do want want more of it. It's nice to know that
00:28:37
Speaker
I think everyone, no matter what level you're at, is in the boat together, I think. And something that, just going back to the co-working thing the other day, people were doing all different things on there. And talking about the journey and how hard it is for businesses sometimes, something that came from that for me on Tuesday, I had a really, I was feeling the grind on Tuesday. I was like, oh man, this is awful.
00:29:05
Speaker
But then Wednesday, when I was with people that I knew and got along with and doing the similar sort of things in business, I felt, I feel blinding after that. And yeah, it's really, really, I'm, I'm so chuffed that it happened. God, mindset's so important. It really is. Right. This has been a real loving. And if anyone's still listening at the 28, 29 minute mark, and they haven't already signed up for their first creative creative
00:29:35
Speaker
creative collective networking group. Thank you. There we go. It's because I've missed lunch. I normally have lunch at my land. I've worked for myself at home for so many years. If I don't eat at noon, my body's like, something's wrong. So if people haven't already searched it and looked it up, how can they find out more apart from looking in the show notes where I'll put the
Discover More About Creative Collective
00:29:57
Speaker
links? Yes, the creative collective
00:30:01
Speaker
Networking.co.uk. Just to make it even more complicated. Yeah, but it was rushed, so it hasn't yet hit the stomach. Yeah, the Creative Collective Networking.co.uk. We've got a Facebook group as well, which I think is the same thing. Our logo, which is probably
00:30:19
Speaker
other people's logos as well as a light bulb, a coloured light bulb. It's a nice one. And yeah, LinkedIn, I guess, if you search for Martin Whiskin or Ben, I think it's just Ben Bowles, then get in touch with us and we'll bring you along. Right, listeners, I heartily recommend you do. Don't worry, I'd say probably don't worry too much about fretting over whether you're a creative or not. Just go, you'll know.
00:30:48
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Yeah, that's it really. That's a terrible sign off. You're a voiceover artist. Give me a nicer sign off than that. Nicer sign off. You've been listening to Andrew Laws from Yesseo and Martin Whiskin from Martin Whiskin. From Martin. I was in a networking group once and I said, somebody I know well, I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't someone I knew. A person before me said, the typical kind of, I'm Jonathan,
00:31:17
Speaker
Second name from Taylor accountant. And I said, I'm Andrew laws from Bruce and Irene laws. I love that. That's brilliant. And now I know your parents' names. Right. Go nuts. Send them, send them Christmas cards. I love that. Cool. Well, thank you. It's been a joy. Well, thank you very much as well. And listeners, thank you very much for listening. Like subscribe, or I'll send Martin around to find you and he'll probably just give you a hug or something.