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Episode 392: Mailbag for Week 12
70 Plays2 years ago
These questions were taken before the Open Cup loss to the Galaxy on Wednesday but are still relevant as they're mostly about the larger MLS campaign. We talk about the Sounders' penchant for "playing down" to opponents; what we think of the Léo Chú-Jordan Morris partnership; and how much patience we should have with Raúl Ruidíaz among other things.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Here we go. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! What a save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS co-pointers! Here comes Ray D'Ace from the middle to crowd it! The vehicle! And now they truly can't stop the celebrations.
00:01:04
Speaker
Seattle Sounders, the greatest MLS team in history.
Seattle Sounders Q&A for MLS Week 12
00:01:12
Speaker
This is a tiny f***ing doll.
00:01:17
Speaker
Is that what you young people call twerking? Welcome back to another episode of Noose Adiata, sponsored by Full Pulled Wines, Watson's Counter, and her Subst...
00:01:47
Speaker
Starting over again. Three, two. Welcome back to another episode of NOS Adietta, sponsored by Full Pole Wines, Watson's Counter, and our Substack subscribers. This is the question and answer episode of week 12 of the MLS season. I am Jeremiah O'Shan. Joining me today is Aaron Campo and our engineer, Lickett.
Challenges Against Low-Table Teams
00:02:08
Speaker
All right. Uh, I think what we're going to maybe start doing is opening with the questions we get from our sub sex subscribers. Uh, cause that just seems like, why not, right? Yeah, why not? Uh, so it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that we've pasted them all at the same time. Uh, we started into the Google doc. Um, yeah, Jesus really just telling people how we make this sausage here. Oh, I said, it's not like we did that. Oh, fair enough.
00:02:37
Speaker
I wouldn't listen. I wouldn't lie to the listeners. First one's from Tristan. It feels as though the Sounders constantly struggle against low table teams. It's strange to see a game with such finesse one week and then look a bit amateurish to the next game. It seems formation changes slash congestion or a main driving force, but is there something else behind this trend?
00:03:00
Speaker
I don't know what is behind it. I wish I did, but I think it's hard to escape that the Sounders' two most frustrating results this year have come against bad teams, frankly, and teams who the Sounders should have been able to put away relatively, maybe not easily, but
00:03:21
Speaker
that it's against Sporting Kansas City and the Timbers does make it even more frustrating. Not just because they were bad, but these are not teams that I enjoy dropping points to at all. And they're two teams who the Sounders have a very weird history with as well. Yeah. And I think too, like, you know, earlier on in the season, you could have pointed to RSL Colorado as teams of the Sounders dominated.
00:03:48
Speaker
that were bad, but those teams might not actually be that bad. I don't think they may not be as terrible as they seemed at the time. They did spanks supporting Casey pretty good, obviously. But yeah, I mean, I do think that playing down to the level of opposition is not
00:04:10
Speaker
uniquely a sounders problem, but it does kind of feel like a sounders problem. Like something that happens to the team more than you would expect it to. Yeah, I mean, this one felt a lot like the Miami lost last year where they was at last year. I think that was last year, right? So they lost one year to Miami at home and Miami had come in also really bad. And I don't know, it just felt kind of like it does feel like one of those things where
00:04:40
Speaker
Good teams should not be dropping results like this under any circumstances.
Injury Impact and Player Combinations
00:04:45
Speaker
And they did, and they did, and they have to kind of figure that out. This is from Alex M. I'm torn on how often the team should deploy the Morris and Chu left wing nine combination versus the Morris A-Bear combination. As we wait for Rui Diaz to get healthy, should Morris and Chu only be used as an option when we think we'll have less of the ball or be more reliant on transition moments?
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think that my preference is Morrison Chu to start with. You mentioned this on the mainline episode earlier this week. It feels like Chu is just more effective as a starter than coming off the bench. I think that he tends to grow into games.
00:05:30
Speaker
And I think a bear has looked pretty good off the bench a lot. I also think that starting with Morrison, she gives you a little more flexibility because you can stick with that combination. You can keep Morris up top and bring in a more defensive option at left wing if you need to. So I just I think it gives you some more options. And I just think Jordan has looked so, so good as a forward this year that.
00:05:56
Speaker
I just really, I want to see him there. This last game, obviously being the exception, he, he did not great, but we kind of talked about that to death of why that might've been. So, um, that's my preference. But I do think that there is a case to be made for the more saber combination. And I do think if it's a game where you feel like you're going to have a little more trouble getting into fine pine defenses and you're going to see a little bit more of the ball and have the opposite
00:06:22
Speaker
giving you a lot of possession, that maybe that's the formation that makes more sense. Yeah. And I will add that you're probably going to get a chance to see Abare Morris on Saturday. At least that's what I would hope. I don't know exactly what that lineup will look like, but my
00:06:41
Speaker
I mean, my, my hope is that they, they use, like I, I suppose maybe we'll see, I wouldn't be totally shocked to see Lidero again out on the right in that game. If only because it would be easier to put, there's a compelling case to be made that, you know, you put Rusnak, Atencio and Jalpaolo as that central three, and that's a much more stable central three. And you can let,
00:07:07
Speaker
Lidaro roam and sort of be a little bit more of a free player out on the right and and not have to worry about locking down that midfield as much so Maybe we'll get to we'll get a good look at what that looks like because we aren't gonna see chew again So yeah, it wouldn't be bad. Yeah
00:07:24
Speaker
The next one is from Lair. Do we think we'll have a healthy Rui Diaz back this season for more than a couple games at a time? It feels like ever since he re-signed with a team that he hasn't been fully healthy and while he has been great on the field at times, that seems increasingly rare. Do we have any options with this contract or just have to wait it out?
00:07:42
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there are options if you are willing to pay for them. The Sounders could theoretically buy Rui Diaz out at any point in the next year and a half. But yeah, they would have to pay out his contract, you know, right now that would probably cost somewhere in the $5 million range. He's got probably two, three, you know, yeah, he's got like a year and
00:08:06
Speaker
and two-thirds left on his contract. I don't think the center is going to do that in part because it's expensive, but also in part that finding a reliable goal scorer is a lot easier said than done. And if they think they can get him healthy, it's a reasonable gamble to, if he's going to be out a couple more weeks, okay, you wait him out and hopefully he comes back.
00:08:30
Speaker
It's at this point starting to feel unlikely that he's going to be able to stay healthy because he hasn't. But it doesn't really cost you anything to see him out. And I would think early worst case scenario, he gets hurt again and they sort of have some decisions to make in the summer.
00:08:50
Speaker
But best case scenario, he stays healthy. They get him into next year and he is able to play out his contract. I don't think the Sounders are going to be particularly inclined to sign them to another contract though.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think that it's unlikely that the Sounders are ready to replace Roel right now. And if you're not ready to replace them, there's no point in buying them out mid-season. Exactly. I do think that it's worth considering, though, if Jordan continues to play really well, if they bear continues to play well.
00:09:21
Speaker
I think it's worth considering whether or not you want to do it in the off season if he's not able to get healthy, but I think everybody's going to hope that he will. And I think Raul has been less reliable than you would hope for from somebody who has that many resources committed to him. But I do think this year has been more the exception than the rule. He's been a little bit fragile in the past.
00:09:47
Speaker
This has been ratcheted up a notch and I don't know if it's reasonable to just expect him to be hurt this much going forward. It might feel like that right now because he came back for like two or three weeks and then got hurt again, but I think more than likely he's healthy the rest of the year.
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Totally. This question is from Brandon. Legitimate question. How do we rank against the other teams with regards to injuries? Can we quantify maybe how much salary per game is out due to injuries? I realize I only care about the Sounders, but it feels like we always have a portion of the season where a lot of guys are down. Is this normal?
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah, we didn't have a chance to look at the data on this, and I think it would actually be kind of a bear to compile all that data, but I think that teams with older designated players and core players probably have more salary and importance, however you want to quantify that, lost to injury than other teams.
00:10:55
Speaker
And, you know, that's just kind of the nature of the beast. And I think it's important to remember that a big part of the reason the Sounders have the roster that they currently have is because they built a roster that could win the Champions League last year. And part of having to do that was committing to some older players maybe longer than they would have liked. And so, you know, that's just kind of one of the trade-offs you have to make.
00:11:21
Speaker
Um, I think that they probably have lost more of their, you know, salary budget to injury this year than other teams and maybe have done so more than average, but you know, I feel like they also have a pretty deep team. I feel like going and getting a bear was a part of trying to prepare for that because role has been somewhat injury prone in the past. And, um, I don't think it's something that.
00:11:47
Speaker
the sounders are doing wrong necessarily. I just think it's one of the risks that goes along with the way they've built their roster.
00:11:57
Speaker
Yeah, I know I will add this other caveat is it's I think the reason it seems that the Sounders have lost a lot of time to injuries, it's because in the last three years, every year they've lost multiple designated players for significant portions of time or important players for significant portions of time.
Inevitability of Injuries with Aging Players
00:12:18
Speaker
That said, I think you got to have different categories for assessing of like the degree to which this is preventable. And on one hand, you have muscle injuries. Those are generally classified as the more preventable types, but then you have all these kind of like freakish injuries. Like they've had multiple players do their ACL. They have this situation with Christian Roldon where he's missing multiple games because of concussion syndrome.
00:12:46
Speaker
they have new who getting malaria, I mean, these are kind of more freakish things that you don't really have any way of guarding against. And, and so yeah, I think your frustration is totally valid. And I think it's born out of a real, you know, a real trend.
00:13:03
Speaker
It's just not as there's not so much you can do about it. I guess is my point. Yeah. I also think it's important to remember that whatever team you follow is going to seem like it has more injuries than the other teams in the league because you know about all of them. Right. Whereas a lot of the time I don't even know who the players on the other teams are necessarily let alone they're missing their first choice. You know.
00:13:27
Speaker
left or center back or whatever, who was maybe the 10th most important player on the team. Like it's one of those things. Um, thank you as always to our wonderful subscribers for the questions. Uh, now onto questions from Twitter. Uh, the first one is from at Kenny sloth two, five, three. Did anyone else notice EMR is a very good day passing the football Sunday thought he was breaking lines and winning everything in the air. Despite the results, I thought it was a defensive player of the year type performance. Thanks. Thank you, Kenny.
00:13:57
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think Yemor has been relatively good this year. I'll be honest, I didn't clock Yemor as having that good of a performance against sporting against the city. You know, I thought there was a lot of blame to go around on both goals, especially with the center backs. But, you know, I'm willing to be
00:14:20
Speaker
prove
Player Performance and Tactical Decisions
00:14:21
Speaker
like maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. That's that wouldn't be the first time. And I'm looking at his numbers now. He had 92 percent passing, which is very good for him. He had nine progressive passes. That's also very good for him. So, yeah, I mean, he he did some things well. And I think generally he's been really good this year. Yeah, I think that the only game where he has stood out to me as having just a legitimately bad game was against Portland, where
00:14:48
Speaker
He was more than bad, I think it's fair to say. But other than that, I think he has been at that defensive player of the year quality level this year. I was maybe a little higher on him in this game than you were, but I agree that he didn't stand out as having a great game to me. But, you know, I was in a pretty sour mood about the game, so I wasn't inclined maybe to notice positive takeaways from it.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'd be willing to bet he was one of the Sounders better players. Yeah. That doesn't strike me as particularly controversial. And, uh, yeah, I mean, he's, I think he's someone who if the Sounders end up being very good this year, I think he'll probably be a contender for defensive player of the year. Uh, this is from a W Stiggs. What plus minus did you see from playing Lidero at right wing and Abraham the center? Will we ever try that again?
00:15:45
Speaker
Uh, in this shape, I didn't see any pluses to it, uh, a bears, not a 10. He, I think could be an effective withdrawn forward and a, and a.
00:15:56
Speaker
you know, formation where you're playing that way. But you can't play with a withdrawn forward and two midfielders. It's just not going to happen. It's not going to work. And, you know, with the tactical sort of more common setups you're going to face, it's kind of doomed to fail. I think Nico can play on the right. I think he's been effective on the right. I still think he can be, especially if he has a lot of freedom to sort of cut inside and occupy the space in the middle. But I do think you need to have
00:16:24
Speaker
just a more robust midfield to support that. And, you know, a bear, I think I like him playing in the middle and I don't think, I mean, he's, he's had some great games as a nine this year. And I, and I'm, you know, I think that him on the, him in the middle, Nico on the right, Jordan on the left could be pretty formidable. I don't, I don't have any opposition to it, but I do not think you can ever play Nico on the right.
00:16:51
Speaker
And a bear is a 10 behind another striker. I just don't think that's going to cut it. I yeah, I think the plus of this was potentially Jordan as the nine, not necessarily playing to the strengths of a bear or Lidaro. And I think that was, that was where the mistake was, uh, that you, I think they prioritized getting Morris up top over a more sound structure.
Defensive Lineup Needs and Adjustments
00:17:19
Speaker
All right. Uh, the next one is from Bill Jones, TRPT. Should we have started Freddy Montero on Sunday? He seemed like the most efficient player setting up chances for our offense. And he seemed to bring some leadership we're lacking early on. Yeah. I, I would be hesitant to say that he should have started. I don't know where you start. I guess you could have started them theoretically instead of a bear. Uh, and maybe he would have been better.
00:17:46
Speaker
I'd be willing to believe that, but that feels more of one of those hindsight-y. Like, I would have never called for that before the game. Yeah. I think that he is a more effective withdrawn forward than a bear, but I think a lot of the reason it looked better in the second half is because Sporting KC was just unconcerned with doing much but defending. And you're always going to look a little better in those situations.
00:18:12
Speaker
This is from tie fighter 17 safe to say Alex at left back can't happen again. Or is that an overreaction? If there was two games to try it, LA and Kansas city were those games. If we looked instantly better once he went to Darb right back.
00:18:27
Speaker
Um, I think it's a lot less likely to happen again than it, you know, maybe, maybe would have been if he had performed pretty well. Uh, it was pretty rough performance. I do think the team looked better when he went to write back, but I also think that that was a larger tactical shift. I don't think it was just him. I don't think that was the sole change. And so I think that, you know, it's, it's maybe a little unfair to, to put it all on, on that shift, but, um,
00:18:54
Speaker
I'm a lot less confident than I was before. I think you definitely have a little more leeway to try something like playing Cody Baker there next time out or maybe even playing a 3-4-2-1 or something the next time out. I would like them... This wasn't the question because somehow we didn't get this question, but we usually do.
00:19:15
Speaker
I definitely think that a backup left back has become more of a priority in terms of something that you might want to ask about or look for in the transfer window. Or if not a left back, a left-footed center back, somebody else who can play on the left side of defense.
00:19:35
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, go ahead. Anything to add there or are you ready for the next one? No, I think I, yeah, I, yeah, I'm, I'm good with that. Cool. All right. So this one is from dudes B. Does this team implode without a center defensive mid? We have so much talent at center mid, but how many are great at defensive cover and breaking up plays just JP and maybe a 10 CEO in my opinion. Yeah. You know, I think there's maybe something to that. I, I, I tend to think Obed is a,
00:20:06
Speaker
a solid defensive midfielder, but maybe that's not, you know, he probably doesn't do that job, that specific job as well as Atencio does. I do think that the Rusnak, Vargas central midfield pairing can work. And I didn't really see them imploding. I didn't think the defensive midfielder
00:20:32
Speaker
issue was the root cause of their problems. Although I understand where this person is coming from. I don't think it's totally off. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely think it was a numbers game more than a personnel thing.
00:20:45
Speaker
Yeah, because we have seen them play pretty effectively this year without a true to center defensive midfielder. And it's, you know, so we know they can do it. It's just, I can't do it if they've got two against five. Yeah. Next one is from, I guess it's your turn, but I'm going to go ahead and ask it anyway, because I've got momentum. It's from Dan Linane. Are Yemar and Regan too similar in their style of play? Would Ariaga provide some better diversity of skill in the back?
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, I, I, I don't tend to think that Ariaga would provide better diversity of skill. I, I, I actually think Yeymar and Reagan are pretty good contrast there. Uh, and in fact, you know, I don't know that putting Aria, like if you, you could swap out Ariaga and Reagan, I think relatively easily. And in fact, that's what we did for the most of the last, uh, two years. I don't know that you could do like Ariaga and Reagan as easily though. I feel like that would
00:21:43
Speaker
maybe leave you a little bit overly exposed. Yeah, I think that there are some things that you could argue Ariaga does a little better than one or the other. But yeah, I don't I don't think that there's going to be such a clear difference that it's going to solve any problems that you're currently having, at least stylistically, you know, maybe you feel like one of the two needs a break and Ariaga could come in and provide
Speculation on New USL2 Teams
00:22:06
Speaker
something different, but I don't think it's going to be a totally different skill set kind of kind of thing. And I don't know. I never really, I haven't really considered Reagan anymore to be.
00:22:16
Speaker
too similar. They feel like they have pretty different games. Yeymar is much more aggressive. Regan is going to be, he's the better passer. I just don't really think of them as redundant, I guess. Yeah. I would tend to agree. They're similarly shaped, I guess.
00:22:38
Speaker
Right. All right. This is from Topher again. Given the success of Ballard FC, by the way, they just announced their roster and I guess they're getting ready to kick off their season later this month. Any chance other neighborhoods get U.S.L. two teams, Ballard versus West Seattle Derby sometime soon?
00:22:57
Speaker
I could see West Seattle potentially getting a team because it feels sort of provincial in the same way that Ballard does. It kind of feels like that's the only other part of town that would be likely to get one.
00:23:13
Speaker
I don't know, the east side as a whole getting one. I could see Tacoma getting one. I could see like South King County getting one like Kent or Tukwila or what have you. And Crossfire used to have an equivalent of the U.S.L. 2 team.
00:23:29
Speaker
I do think it kind of speaks to the degree to which Ballard FC is really a marketing success. And I don't mean that in any negative way at all. They've done a great job of creating an atmosphere people want to be a part of. They created a lot of energy. They have great merchandise. But the USL2 is
00:23:48
Speaker
is not, you know, like if you go around the league, I don't think you're going to find a lot of teams that are drawing 1500 people, like Ballard FC is. And again, that's not like a Ballard FC is doing great. But I think you have to like it's a lot of it is going to be how you market it and how you promote it. And
00:24:05
Speaker
And you know, like, Ballard FC has a great social media presence. They've done a good job of getting their name out there. And if someone else is going to do that in the area, I think they would have to come at it with just the same sort of energy. And they can, it's not just about putting a team there, you got to come in with a whole sort of like plan.
00:24:25
Speaker
And I, sure, West Seattle could do it. I could see it being an Eastside team pulling that off. But I, you know, you got to, it's like, there's a lot there to, to like make it.
00:24:38
Speaker
And I think the sort of the star power of Lamar Nagel is also like, it doesn't hurt. And I think you'd need someone sort of like a personality to build the team around. Right. And I guess what I was, the other thing I was sort of getting at is that
00:24:55
Speaker
The Puget Sound region is littered with either, not necessarily literally, USL2 teams, but PDL teams or teams of similar level in the pyramid who have come and gone. In fact, I think there are still some teams on the east side that are playing in some of those other leagues, the names of which are escaping me. And so it's like that level of competition is here. It's just,
00:25:25
Speaker
It's not as well. It just hasn't been done as well. Yeah.
Impact of Seattle Sounders' CCL Victory
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:35
Speaker
This is free. I think this is the last one to you. Oh, is it? Oh yeah. You're right. It's from Garrett Amini. After the Sounders became the first MLS team to win CCL, there were a flood of takes about what this meant for MLS and US soccer. A year later, did any of those takes pan out? Have we seen or felt anything change beyond just vibes? What is the lasting impact? Mostly just curious about the lasting impacts, if any, of the win on the Sounders, Seattle, MLS, or US soccer in general. You know, I think.
00:26:01
Speaker
there was probably a tendency to overstate just how big of a deal the Sounders win was going to be.
00:26:10
Speaker
It was a big hurdle to get over. I think it was sort of a mental thing that I think a lot of people in the US soccer space just wanted to stop talking about like, when are you going to win CCL? And so in that way, it was game changing. And hey, if LAFC go on to win this again, I think you can say like the Sounders were successful in that very specific way of getting over that hump and kind of clearing the way for everyone else.
00:26:40
Speaker
But beyond that, I don't know that it changed the conversation around the sounders. I don't know if it really... I don't know, maybe in Mexico they are taking more notice of MLS than before. Maybe that's one of the things that... But I feel like a lot of this was already kind of coming into
00:27:02
Speaker
focus, like the league's cup was already happening. League iMekis and MLS were already working together on a ton of projects before the Sounders won CCL. So I mean, I don't know. I don't, I don't think it was probably as big of a deal as it felt at the time, but it's still history. It's still a huge deal as far as I'm concerned. I think in, and I think we'll really not fully under appreciate the impact until we get a little farther out than, you know, just a year.
00:27:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think that a lot of the time we have a tendency in US soccer to always think of what does this achievement, this accomplishment, this event mean for the future of the game, right? Like sometimes it doesn't mean anything.
00:27:50
Speaker
I mean, it means a lot to me. It means a lot to the Sounders fans. To be the first team to ever win it is something that nobody can ever take away from the Sounders. If LAFC wins, if LAFC had been the first team to win, it would have bothered me. If LAFC wins this year, I don't want them to win, but I'm not really bothered.
00:28:12
Speaker
doesn't take away the sounder's accomplishment. But that doesn't change anything. If the sounders had gone to Morocco and made some noise there, I think maybe that would have justified some of the think pieces and some of the takes. But to me, a US soccer media ecosystem that has been
00:28:37
Speaker
openly hostile to the sounders and their fans over the years, trying to co-opt this as this big meaningful thing for American soccer was always kind of annoying to me.
00:28:49
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, it means that the Sounders won the CCL, but I think a lot of the takes at the time seem overwrought to me. It seemed sort of like a, you know, a narrative in search of a savior. I don't know, but I just, you know, it's, uh, no, to answer the question, I don't think a lot of the takes have panned out and I don't think that they were ever likely to because ultimately it's just a, it's just a tournament that they have every year that
00:29:17
Speaker
finally an MLS team one, but it's not going to change a whole lot in isolation. Uh, yeah, that's going to do it. I guess. Thank you for listening as always. Uh, thank you to our sponsors, uh, full pole wines, lots of counter. Thank you to our lovely subscribers as always. Uh, and we will catch you next time.
00:30:13
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!