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What we learned this week: How the MLS calendar and broadcast changes could fundamentally change the league
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Niko and Jeremiah learned a lot this week but really the hot topic became the MLS proposed calendar changes and putting MLS season pass behind only one paywall. They also review the Sounders' disappointing playoff exit at the hands of themselves and Minnesota. Finally the guys briefly touch on the uncertainties in play contract negotiations including Stefan Frei, Obed Vargas, and Paul Rothrock.
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Transcript
Sounders Legends and Partnerships
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. Here we go. Come on. Hey, O'Shaan.
00:00:14
Speaker
Let's go. The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winners. Here comes Ruiz Diaz through the middle to crown it for Seattle.
00:00:25
Speaker
The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:59
Speaker
you know what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't? Ever since I wrote a commentary that we didn't take the outcome seriously.
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
Season Review and Offseason Plans
00:01:41
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adientes on the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. i am Jeremiah O'Shan. It is Friday. i don't know how many more times we're going to be doing this for the next few weeks, but we are only about a week removed from the end of the regular season. And I am here with Nico Moreno to talk about the way the season ended, to look ahead to the offseason, and to sort of talk about some of what we learned this week. Nico, welcome back.
00:02:09
Speaker
Thank you, Jeremiah. You are absolutely correct. I am going to go ahead and save my my my goodbyes to the audience for for the year as I believe we still have one big press conference, hopefully in the horizon.
00:02:23
Speaker
so I'm guessing that we will do at least one more of these, what we learned this week. But it's been it's been great, man. And you know obviously, like I said, I'll save my goodbyes for then, but ah excited to come on, talk to you. We have not been able to discuss the end of the season for the Sounders. You know, probably some more overall takes than going into a game that I'm sure most of our audience wants to completely forget.
00:02:48
Speaker
And, you know, we'll get into what we what we know, which is, you know, offseason is usually our full season or, yeah you know, our our playoffs because, you know, we're we're getting out there trying to get the most information we can. So, yeah, man, excited to be back on.
00:03:04
Speaker
and And just to be clear, give a little housekeeping. It's not that we aren't going to do shows in the offseason. It's that I don't know that we're going have a weekly show to talk about every week, especially as we get closer into the holiday
MLS Calendar Changes and Implications
00:03:17
Speaker
seasons. But this week has been a very newsy week, as it were, not not just because of the Sounders, but because of the MLS has announced that We are switching the calendar in 2027 to be closer to Europe so that the championship game will now be played in May and the season will start in July. It sounds like once everything gets going, we'll talk a little bit about that.
00:03:44
Speaker
Talk about the impact on the Sounders, impact on the transfer window. Of course, there was also the news yesterday that and MLS is getting rid of MLS season pass.
00:03:55
Speaker
So there is no you don't need to have a MLS-specific... subscription to watch MLS games that is now being rolled into Apple TV, which used to be called Apple TV plus it is still a subscription service, but now you get everything that comes with that. So you get Ted Lasso and you get, you know, every other, all the other shows you'll get actually F1. I believe um major league baseball now actually has games on, on Apple TV as well.
00:04:20
Speaker
And then on top of that, they are packaging it. You can now get a package with Peacock, which is the NBC channel. And so you can get essentially premier league games and MLS games for 1499 a month, which is essentially the same price you were playing for just MLS season pass.
00:04:36
Speaker
So this is all seemingly good news and, and good for the MLS fan. I should add that if you are a season ticket holder, you will still get Apple TV. Uh,
00:04:47
Speaker
as part of your season ticket package so if for mls for season ticket holders there's actually there's really no downside to this uh anyway nico do you want you have anything to add about all that sort of the uh the streaming aspect of this the streaming aspect is it's great it's always felt to me like the right way of doing it from the very beginning.
00:05:14
Speaker
i have always found it a little convoluted that you had to get a subscription to Apple and then a subscription to MLS season pass. It just minimizes and takes away from using the phenomenal platform that Apple can be the get people interested because they have such great shows, such great movies ah that, you know, usually if you have that package and there's some MLS on, you might just watch a couple of games a lot easier than you having to get a whole other subscription.
00:05:49
Speaker
And you're like, yeah, I'm not going to do that. Right. and There's no point that I'm going to add more to what I'm going be paying. Much more accessible casual sports fan. And even sketch. Correct. Uh, Merritt Paulson is quoted in the sports business journal as saying that he thinks that MLS will double its audience by next year, just by, and I don't think that's actually that crazy of an idea. Now, is it, is it doubling a relatively small number?
00:06:14
Speaker
Yes, probably. But ah doubling is good. ah You know, having um ah more of an audience. And I think that it's, you know, I definitely heard a few people expressing a little bit of frustration over this move because they had come up with clever workarounds.
00:06:32
Speaker
Like someone had told me that, ah the way it they used to do it was they would wait for people who were getting MLS season pass for free to then sell it on eBay essentially.
00:06:44
Speaker
And so they would get it at like these. And I was like, wow, that's like a, that's like a real galaxy brain idea. But the good news is that you still get Apple TV, Apple free with most device purchases. So I would imagine that to the degree that there was a market for MLS season pass on eBay, there is probably a market for Apple TV at deep discounts as well.
00:07:03
Speaker
So I just think this is this is a good move. I think it signals that MLS understands that it has to reach more people. And then today there was an article in sports business journal that also said that and MLS and Apple have sort of reworked the financial elements of their deal.
00:07:20
Speaker
Don Garber said it was a positive. We don't have any information about whether, what that means. Like essentially, i think we can assume that MLS was supposed to be eligible for getting percentage of this MLS season and pass sales. If they,
00:07:37
Speaker
went over a certain number, that number is no longer, you know, that's not really a relevant number anymore. So I would imagine they maybe just get like a ah slightly bigger chunk of the, of what they were getting before. I don't know, but these are, those are sort of problems for somebody else that's counting beans at and MLS and and not my problem.
00:07:56
Speaker
To me, MLS is just making all the right decisions. and And it goes from the streaming aspect to aligning with the international calendar yeah because of not just the transfer window, which is phenomenal, right? You're going to be able to buy and sell players a lot easier.
00:08:14
Speaker
But to me, the fact that ah You no longer are going to have to be as interrupted when it comes to the FIFA international windows for ah players to play with their national teams is going to be huge. This is something that was, although it happens in other leagues, it seemed like it was a lot more of a obstruction for MLS teams. And and look, MLS, ah for all accounts, ah and I mean, this was last year, but I believe that they're the league that um exports the most amount of players for national teams because of its size. Obviously you have right a lot of, you know, Concordia teams and Caribbean teams and, you know, South America. But at the end of the day, that's a whole lot of players. At one point it was like 75 players.
00:09:01
Speaker
players were coming off to ah play for the national team. So but that's going to slow down a bit. i think that the playoff format is going to be so much better, so much involved.
00:09:12
Speaker
You got a team like New York City right now that I'd be upset because of the the break of the FIFA break, right? You're red hot. You beat Charlotte. Nico Fernandez is killing. Alonso Martinez is killing. And now you got to stop for two weeks and right then get restarted. I mean, all those things are going to go away. So um I just think it's all great. The Canadian teams being able to be part of that transfer window is huge before.
00:09:38
Speaker
And you have no idea how many times, you know, three, four years ago. There were so many agents that just didn't understand It's like, I don't get it. I thought Vancouver and Toronto and Montreal were all MLS.
00:09:51
Speaker
Why is the window different? Now that's all changed. So overall, I'm just stoked that the league is putting themselves in a trajectory to continue to get better and improve in all aspects, on the performance aspect, on just the optics across the world. And of course, in the viewership and streaming opportunities,
00:10:13
Speaker
It it's it's all just seems like it's going in the right direction. Yeah. So the the downside to this move is mostly one that is fan focused to a degree. You know, there are probably roughly half the league plays in markets where it's going to be challenging to play during some of the winter months.
00:10:34
Speaker
Now it that doesn't. And I think that this has maybe been overblown. The reality is that MLS already plays games in February and champions in Hunker Calf champions cup. There are almost every team plays early season games in March.
00:10:49
Speaker
ah So the fact that there' there's this idea that MLS did not play through the winter is not true. Like there have always been an MLS MLS cup right now is in December.
00:11:01
Speaker
Again, that's only two teams, but teams. we've seen it have that like they figured out how to play MLS cup in Toronto. You know, ah these are not on impossible ah hurdles to clear.
00:11:14
Speaker
now The complaint, and I've heard a lot of this from especially fans in places like Minnesota and Colorado, and I assume you know most of these markets that it gets really cold, is that it's just putting a higher percentage of the season in weather that we don't think it's suitable to be at least watching games outside.
00:11:37
Speaker
And that's a ah legitimate complaint. I just think it's overblown as to how big of a deal that is. MLS has said that they're they're probably going to take a break of somewhere between six to eight weeks during the winter. They'll probably take off in early December and then come back in early to mid February.
00:11:58
Speaker
I would imagine that there is scheduling that they can do to lessen the impact in Seattle. I was surprised how many people in Seattle were telling me like, oh, well, this is killing it for me on season tickets. And i was really confused because I don't know.
00:12:12
Speaker
i don't, I don't see this change being that bad. And I think most Seattle soccer fans are cool with going to games and crappy weather. Anyway, it's sort of like part of the Seattle sports culture. The Seahawks are not hurt at all by bad weather.
00:12:28
Speaker
i don't know why the sounders would necessarily be hurt much. ah Essentially we're losing games in June and part of July. That doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world. i would imagine a lot of Seattle people are like, well, that's when I'd rather be doing other stuff anyway. don't know. Do you, do you, are you sympathetic at all to these perceived downsides?
00:12:52
Speaker
I definitely am ah sympathetic or empathetic to how we can change and move people's livelihood. Change is hard.
00:13:03
Speaker
And it is coming from me who has a hard time just posting on blue sky because it's just different, right? It just messes with my everyday habits. So I absolutely understand why people would look at this and be like, this is not going to work for me.
00:13:18
Speaker
This is how I do it every year. This is I've been doing this since 2009. And this is just, you know, an inconvenience. But I think at the end of the day, once you start to really look into it, as you mentioned, there isn't going to be that much of a difference because of the footprint of the overall year, because of the times when things happen,
00:13:39
Speaker
Because, and you mentioned this to me, you know, off camera and off the record, obviously just conversating yesterday when you mentioned that it'd be a lot easier to not have to worry about moving playoff games because of weather conditions.
Impact on Player Transfers and Talent Levels
00:13:57
Speaker
Now you have that in May. In May, it's going to be a lot more... um easier for for for the climate to be to be perfect and not have to move things around rather than in in the early part of the season where you could easily move or postpone the game. So, additionally to that, I would say that I have gotten couple of people that have DMed me or called me and told me, look, this is just not going to work for me.
00:14:21
Speaker
I'm a Seahawks season ticket holder and I'm also a Sounders ticket holder and this is going to be too much in a specific time of the year. So everybody has their own obstacles and I can understand where that could be fair.
00:14:36
Speaker
But at the same time, if you're a fan, if you are someone that has been, you know, with the Sounders from day one.
00:14:46
Speaker
I don't know why you wouldn't go to these games. and and And I just don't see that there would be that much of an inconvenience that your fandom would be affected by it. um You might lose some casual people, you know, here and there.
00:15:00
Speaker
ah But at the end of the day, I feel like the pros overcome the cons. And, and yeah you know, we've talked about those. And so for me, it is going to be ah learning curve and people are just going to have to get used to it.
00:15:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think the the playoff thing is is pretty big, though. And i one of the things that I also saw brought up, and I think it's worth addressing, is that under the current schedule,
00:15:27
Speaker
our season, the Sounders season and the Seahawks season overlaps about 75%, I want to say, of the Seahawks. And now it's going to be closer to 100%, at least of the eml of the NFL regular season.
00:15:41
Speaker
You have home games, right? so But the ah the sort of like the rub here is that even though there is more dates that are overlapping, it will be easier to schedule around in this new system Because what makes it tricky is not the set schedule.
00:15:58
Speaker
The set schedule is what it is. You figure out how to work around it and and you go from there. What throws a wrench into this whole thing is playoffs. Because, and and if you go back and look at the times that the the Sounders have been, had really had to move games or,
00:16:14
Speaker
play in suboptimal conditions, whether it be football lines on the field, or they couldn't open up the whole stadium or whatever it was, it's almost always during the playoffs because those games aren't already on the calendar.
00:16:26
Speaker
And first and goal is not just holding the dates to the degree that the the sounders sort of need to. And so in the future, yes, there's going to be more overlap. And I suppose if you want grass to be installed at Lumen field. This is maybe a setback in that sense, because it makes it a little bit tougher to sort of manage that.
00:16:47
Speaker
But I don't know that grass is a real consideration at this point in terms of a permanent surface at Lumen field. And in any case, that's a bridge we can cross when we get there. But from a pure scheduling standpoint, this is better.
00:16:58
Speaker
And the playoffs will be like Lumen field should be always available. during the playoffs now. That's great. That means probably more Saturday playoff games.
00:17:10
Speaker
That means ah more ideal setups. it it I think the entire playoff in MLS is going to be way better. And like you said, the biggest reason that this is a benefit is that you don't have to play through international breaks.
00:17:23
Speaker
You don't have to worry about international breaks interrupting the season in April and May, which is great.
00:17:31
Speaker
And at the end of the day, the biggest objective is continue to improve the league. And... Look, 10, 15 years ago when I first started this, maybe three or four years after I started covering, I saw that MLS had the infrastructure and the resources to become a top league in in the world.
00:17:58
Speaker
People would tell me that it was impossible, that it would never happen, that the MLS would never be a top 10 league. We are there now. And if you want to be a top five, top six, top seven league in the world, you needed to make this change happen so you can go out there and get the best possible talent to your league.
00:18:16
Speaker
Make your product speak for itself. It's no longer about having to do gimmicky things or ah having to do all these random tournaments.
00:18:27
Speaker
You're going to allow U.S. soccer to grow because the Domestic League is one of the top five, top six, top seven leagues in the world. And that that was necessary for you to be able to First of all, you take away the narrative for any owner who has ever said, oh, look, it's just difficult to get things done in the summer because this is how it works in Europe.
00:18:48
Speaker
Now that's out of the question. Now you're putting the responsibility on the ownership and on MLS in general to get these players here. And look, I've said this a thousand times. I think that today,
00:19:01
Speaker
and MLS is the biggest showcase, maybe outside of Argentina, maybe Brazil, ah in America for ah players to to get to Europe, right? If you're a prospect in South America, top-end prospect, you're no longer going to Mexico, which used to be one of the stops before you went to Europe.
00:19:20
Speaker
You're no longer trying to stay in a domestic league until somebody takes you. Sure, if you're good enough, you're already in Italy, you're already in France, you're already in Portugal, right? But the one stop is going to be America because of everything that has to do with the way the MLS league works. So for me, this is just phenomenal. It's huge.
00:19:37
Speaker
This is MLS 3.0. three point zero And I think we should all be glad that it happened. you know You bring up a ah really good point about this is that the main pitch of this change is really about raising the talent level in MLS.
00:19:54
Speaker
And that's you know part of it is that it's going to be easier to sell players because the summer transfer window will happen at a time that is the MLS off season and there'll be less downside on the flip side.
00:20:07
Speaker
and MLS should be able to bring in higher quality players in the summer and they, and they don't have to do. And I think one of the the things that gets overlooked is that it wasn't that it was impossible to sign players in the summer before we've seen lots and lots of players get signed in the summer, but what it does is it, it forces teams to sort of budget in a way that they're going to have available resources in the summer.
00:20:29
Speaker
This gets rid of that. This is allowing teams to build their roster with the primary goal of adding players in the summer, which should, in theory, allow the early season games to be played at something closer to an optimized roster.
00:20:45
Speaker
And so, you know, you look at the way that the Sounders many times have had to go into CONCACAF Champions League, where most teams go into CONCACAF Champions League with a roster that has obvious ah compromises in it.
00:20:58
Speaker
because they are leaving an open DP spot or, you know, in the sound, even when the sounders won in 2022, they were making compromises because they were, you know, they, they signed players to longer term contracts and they might've otherwise signed them to because they wanted to have, make sure that there was stability so they can make a run for CONCACAF champions league.
00:21:17
Speaker
And so this will allow teams to just make holistically better roster building decisions and But I will say there is a huge caveat to all this.
00:21:28
Speaker
This is all predicated on MLS ultimately being willing to spend more money to loosening the roster rules to allow teams to really optimize on all this new roster flexibility.
00:21:42
Speaker
And if they don't do that, then I think this is going to fall flat. But there was also indications yesterday in Don Garber's address that they are weighing these these kind of decisions. And I would hope that you know they are serious about not just putting more money into the system, but also loosening the way that teams are allowed to spend.
00:22:03
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's that's all coming. in I think this is all going to be about and MLS 3.0. This is all going to be tied together. Look, i I talked to several. I spent a lot of time on the phone over the last two days. And speaking to both GMs, sporting directors, and coaches, I even talked to one one former front office person. Let's just call it that way. He did not give up much.
00:22:29
Speaker
And he said, look, I kind of feel like some of these restrictions that are not being changed cost me my job. You know? And yeah he's just like, man, this, it kind of sucks, right? I mean, it really does. so it does go um create this sort of new way about handling business in MLS.
00:22:48
Speaker
And it's all at the end going to be beneficial for the product on the field. and And that's all that we want. i had one coach also so tell me, that the off season being a lot shorter is also going to help recruiting.
00:23:02
Speaker
i had this former ah coach tell me, look, there was a, and the only reason why I'm not saying his name because he told me not to ah necessarily mention this.
00:23:13
Speaker
ah But overall, he said, look, I had a really good international player that wanted to come to my club. The money was there. We could have done it, but he was in the bubble to get into his national team.
00:23:29
Speaker
And he knew that the off season would be potentially, if we were not going to make the playoffs, it'd be like three months long. And that could essentially hurt his chances to make that world So he decided not to come here.
00:23:45
Speaker
He went elsewhere and that was a problem. Right. So all of that is being mitigated by this new calendar. So it's not just one, two, three, but it it all goes into accounts for and MLS having the best possible chance to have the best possible players on the field.
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah. And so of the things that did not get announced yesterday, but was reported pretty widely or not widely, but it was reported pretty you know strongly by Paul Tenorio of The Athletic was that MLS was also going to be changing its competitive structure.
00:24:18
Speaker
And so what he said was going to happen was MLS was going to move to a single table, but then break the single table up into five. five sort of geographic divisions.
00:24:30
Speaker
And the purpose of those divisions would just be for scheduling purposes. So you know who you play twice every year. So you would play everyone in your division twice. That would be 10 games. And then you would have the remaining 24 of your games going against the remaining 24 teams. So you'd play every team.
00:24:47
Speaker
in the league at least once. that'll be the first That would be the first time since 2019 that MLS teams would play each other every season. and or every Yeah, every season. And i think that and then the the the total playoff would be a single table.
00:25:03
Speaker
the The playoffs would then be determined by a single table. So you know the top 16 teams presumably would from the single table would all just go into the playoffs. And then they also were talking about redoing the way that the playoffs are run.
00:25:15
Speaker
And the idea they have seems to be a essentially like a five round playoff of a hybrid single elimination, double and um animation type of idea. But the whole playoffs would occur probably in about a month, which again helps the scheduling because one of the problems now is that the gap between teams who don't make the playoffs And those who get to MLS cup is almost two months long. And that creates a lot more off season for a lot more players.
00:25:45
Speaker
And that is not really ideal. There are no, I don't think there's any leagues in the world that have as long of an off season as the one that you would go through. If you get eliminated from, if you don't make it to playoffs in MLS.
00:25:58
Speaker
Yeah, and there really isn't. And and you would also obviously help the Ewing Smiths national team and and in all of the purposes that, you know, I always make sure to...
00:26:12
Speaker
because this is the way it works all around the world is the the the league, the domestic league and the federation work together. It feels like sometimes the U.S. s Soccer Federation and MLS don't.
00:26:24
Speaker
I think this makes it a lot easier for them to work together. and And it all kind of goes hand in hand with with the offseason and all the things that we've already mentioned. So, yeah, I totally agree with you.
00:26:37
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so i don't know. I think I think in the in the wash, this is looking like ah good change. I understand change is hard and people don't like it. And there's going to be understanding. i don't blame anyone for for being frustrated because they got into a routine and they wanted to do this. yeahp But, you know, this idea that no one's going to go to games in January is not really a relevant argument there are not going to be games in January I would just again I would just remind people that the degree to which we go to games in February now is probably going to be relatively unchanged ah and yeah you're going to miss out on some games in June and July and that's you know I can understand why people like those games but
00:27:16
Speaker
this is ultimately not that big of a change. that The, the funny thing is that the, the midwinter break may actually end up being a little bit longer than the off season, which is a, you know, a little bit of ah a mind F, but, uh, Oh i yeah, it's true. Oh crap. You're right.
00:27:33
Speaker
And it'll be interesting to see how they, how they bridge the the winter break, because i I can't imagine that they're just going to take six weeks off and that'll be that. I would think they'll come up with some sort of like mid season tournament. Maybe that's when leagues cup gets played.
00:27:47
Speaker
And maybe league. That's what I imagine. Yeah. Yeah. And they'll probably play Leagues Cup at, you know, just in Southern markets or or something like that, that they'll probably change the way that that's done. There's a lot of in creative ways that they could go about doing a ah mid-season tournament like that if they wanted to.
00:28:05
Speaker
And that's a great point, Jeremiah, because look, at the end of the day, MLS has the the the infrastructure, the the stadiums, and enough knowledge of how weather works to, you know, manage the calendar for the Chicagos, the Colorados, the New York City's, right? All those, Minnesota, all those teams that are obviously competitive.
00:28:31
Speaker
wondering what's going to happen to their attendance. Because, you know, like you said, it's a valid point to to think that the people that are enduring going to a super cold game in Toronto for a final is not the same people that are going to be willing to go to the exact same temperature and heartache for a week five game. Right. Right. Or a week three game.
00:28:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I think, but this is this is sort of, a again, where I come out on this, is that there are roughly roughly half the league is in this situation, And supposedly there was overwhelming support among the league owners who presumably have a lot to lose if they, if they're attendance craters.
00:29:16
Speaker
And so I have to assume that they're going to figure this out. If it is in the best interest of everyone to figure out good solutions, if they just sort of like plow forward, that's not going to be great. But if you bring in better talent, if you have to take fewer international breaks, if you, you know, you can kind of just go down the list and I can see how this is a positive thing.
00:29:36
Speaker
But I think that's that's probably the main things we wanted to get to on that subject.
Sounders' Playoff Performance
00:29:40
Speaker
i I would like to, though, close the door, close the books on the 2025 Sounders season.
00:29:49
Speaker
It, of course, ended in very disappointing fashion. The Sounders ultimately outplayed Minnesota United in my book, but they they that doesn't keep them from going out.
00:30:01
Speaker
in the first round, probably, you know, Brian Spencer called it the, I think he called it what the most, the hardest loss of his career. Yeah. The toughest loss of his career, which i I can understand why he says that, because I think this is probably the first time where he felt like,
00:30:17
Speaker
and Like almost undeniably, they were the better team and they had the win in their hand multiple times. They were up to zero. They're up a man. They had two chances to seal it in the penalty shootout and they just couldn't get the job done. It was a very unsounders performance in that way.
00:30:34
Speaker
And I'm curious if you felt like it it undercut anything you believed about this team prior. I think he he definitely put this overcast over a season that I would still consider successful.
00:30:50
Speaker
um I think that... Ultimately, it it will always leave a bad taste in your mouth to choke on a game because that's what this was, right? We can move around it and call it disappointing and call it, you know, whatever. But at the end of the day, Seattle had everything in their favor to win this game. And in my opinion, due to individual mistakes and they gave it up.
00:31:20
Speaker
Right. And there are times where even me who is very hard on Brian's Metzer, and I always call it like it is in this one, it's hard for me to put it on him because when the game is at stake and you have an additional player on the field and it's still the first half and you're unable to do two things. One,
00:31:50
Speaker
keep possession, not make silly mistakes, take advantage of that man advantage.
00:32:01
Speaker
I put it on the players. There's times where a player just has to be able to say, look, they're down the man. I'm going to push higher. I'm going to go here. I'm going to make sure that I exploit that area. And he just felt like after the two zero, it's not like they laid off the gas. I just felt like they were unable to do more than what they were doing.
00:32:19
Speaker
they The plan continued to be the same. and if you finish that, that first half, because you know, that there were good chances in the second half, but if after Rosales goes out, you are able to get one more, that game is cooked and you were unable to do that.
00:32:34
Speaker
Not to mention, Legemar has had, has not had his best year. He's still an excellent defender. The mistake was clumsy, I would call it. I don't think it was something that ah was done on purpose or anything. I think he has his arm way too too high. You're talking the free kick that led to Pereira's goal.
00:32:56
Speaker
because that's what kind of started unraveling everything, right? That that goal by Pereira just put oxygen back in the stadium and put oxygen back into the team.
00:33:08
Speaker
You could just see Ramsey excel, like, okay, it's not over, right? And that sort of lifeline is what...
00:33:20
Speaker
honestly has been hunting the the Sounders all season so long and Minnesota takes advantage of it. So for me, just to close it up, I put it more on the players. I know that Brian, and i I stand by this. I think Brian did everything he could to win this game.
00:33:36
Speaker
And to me, that's undeniable. I thought that the Andrew Thomas decision was not is he easy for him. it was almost unnatural for him to do it. And he has to completely change the chip of what he believes is right to give his team the best possible chance to win that game.
00:33:53
Speaker
And he did that. I thought that he brought in his amulet in Paul Rothrock. when he thought that he could make a difference. It didn't work out. We could sit here and break the game after watching it three or four times like I have and say, look, maybe Georgie might have done a little bit more. Maybe ah you add another player.
00:34:15
Speaker
Maybe you don't take out Ferreira because I thought that he was... Getting better as the game went along and I wanted to see him shoot a PK for once. But but at the end of the day, Brian threw all the meat in the grill, everything he had in the fridge, he threw it out. It's there. And and he goes out of the playoffs saying, I did everything I could to change the game.
00:34:39
Speaker
Yeah, one of the things um mentioned before this game and one of the things that I've said since then is that he sort of emptied the chamber. He did not go down with bullets left to fire. he you know, I think he pulled all the levers that he reasonably had to pull.
00:34:56
Speaker
And, and you're right. It wasn't that they let off the, you know, i've I've heard this said that they let off the gas and they, I didn't see that. I don't, I don't think it was that they stopped attacking or that they stopped creating chances. It was that they just didn't like the, the one that's going to haunt them obviously is the, is the Albert Rusnak chance. Oh yeah.
00:35:13
Speaker
where it's just a perfectly executed, especially a man up type of move. He has the whole goal to look at and he just puts it off the post. Not so unlike the, you know, the, the Obed Vargas penalty where he, he does everything right to get the,
00:35:29
Speaker
the opening he needs. And then he just doesn't have the final execution. And it was kind of that, that, that way for the centers, the centers created three or four really good chances. And I guess you give some credit. You certainly give some credit to Minnesota for, you know, blocking shots and, and making some, some good saves and, and frankly converting their chances.
00:35:49
Speaker
But there is sort of an irony to the shootout where, know, the The Sounders players who miss are Jordan Morris, who just had just scored one of the biggest clutch goals of his career ah few minutes earlier. Yep.
00:36:04
Speaker
And then you have Obed Vargas, who is coming off... maybe his best performance as a pro and he has a chance to win it. And then he, he puts it off the, the, the post.
00:36:16
Speaker
And then you have Osase De Rosario who has had this amazing rise all year, who had the starring performance in the league's cup final. And he looks so confident and he hit such a shitty penalty. Yeah.
00:36:30
Speaker
yeah And correct me if I'm wrong, just to add to your point, wasn't he like one of the main PK takers for Tacoma defiance or something like that? I mean, he's definitely taken some, he has plenty of, this is not certainly that this is like the fourth penalty he's taken this year. So he has plenty of experience. He hasn't been great on, on the penalties, but but for sure he was, he had, he has the, he has the experience to do this.
00:36:52
Speaker
And then of course ah the final miss is Andrew Thomas who had, a heroic performance in the, in the shootout where he dislocates his finger. He makes two saves.
00:37:06
Speaker
He just looks like he is loving me a whole moment. And then he, and then a chance to keep the shootout going. He puts it off the, off the crossbar, just sort of a brutal way for this season to
Reflecting on the Season's End
00:37:17
Speaker
end.
00:37:17
Speaker
And I don't know that I'm totally over it because I'm, I'm sure what's going to happen is The league's going to start playing again this weekend. And I'm going be like, God damn it. The centers are better than half these teams.
00:37:28
Speaker
Yeah, no, and you should feel that way, right? And ah the the the most difficult part is that the team was prepared. they knew that They knew what they needed to do in set pieces. They knew what they needed to do when they had the lead.
00:37:42
Speaker
They just weren't able to execute it at the end of the day. And it's difficult because i don't know if we overlooked, and you and I talked about this, i don't know if we overlooked the kryptonite that maybe set pieces are for this team or and or it had been throughout the year.
00:38:02
Speaker
And so when the matchup came up against Minnesota, we were all in consensus that that was the best matchup out of all the other teams. Or it felt like that because right they had slowed down.
00:38:15
Speaker
They had lost some pieces. but it ended up being an Achilles heel that that maybe we didn't quite see. Thank you for listening to the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network, which now includes Nos Arietes, Loving Scorchers, and The Cooler Guild. Although this podcast is free, it's only made possible through our paid subscribers.
00:38:34
Speaker
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00:39:09
Speaker
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00:39:38
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:40:40
Speaker
And I mean, and I think to our, you know, in our defense, we've asked Brian about this multiple times throughout the year. And he, I think the answer has pretty consistently been, i know we haven't been great on set pieces, but we were great last year. It's the same players that we have. It's the same coaching staff.
00:40:57
Speaker
I don't see why this is going to continue. And it did, it just continued. They gave up 12 goals during the regular season on set pieces. They gave up three more in the, in, in the playoffs, it's Set pieces were a real problem for this team.
00:41:11
Speaker
And i think that if anything, the Sounders were not proactive enough about, about fixing whatever was wrong because the, the last two goals they gave up in this game were just totally inexcusable. You cannot lose players when you're up a man.
00:41:28
Speaker
I don't understand how that happens. How do you get back open back post runners when you have a man advantage? That's insane. Yeah, it's it's just unheard of. it's It's something, and especially to a team that just doesn't do it, right? That that that is not equipped to do it.
00:41:45
Speaker
Yeah, like that they're not a comeback team, that's for sure. Yeah, they're just not equipped to do it. Yeah, it was it was a very it was a very frustrating game. I don't know that it ultimately changed how I feel about the construction of the team.
00:42:00
Speaker
If anything, you know one of the things that happened the last few years is I think we would look back on the the play the the last three the previous three times the Sounders got to the playoffs, so their offense was clearly a problem.
00:42:16
Speaker
They got shut out against RSL. And they, you know, we knew that that was not a, like they, they just didn't have the offensive fire fire about that. They need, they struggled down the stretch that season, very clearly a problem.
00:42:28
Speaker
2023, they're back in the playoffs, best defense in the league, but their offense just was ultimately not able to produce much 2024. Same story, best offensive in the league.
00:42:39
Speaker
They ground out some results, but ultimately the offense was just not there. The Sounders ended up scoring more goal or the same number of goals, in this three game playoff series and they had their previous three playoff campaigns. So the entire, so the last, I believe seven or eight games combined, the offense was not a problem. I am not worried about this team's ability to create goals. I am very comfortable with like not making big changes on the offense going into the, into the off season. Yeah.
00:43:11
Speaker
But I do wonder if they they're going to have to make some changes to defense. And i'll I'll add this because I know this is something you guys talked about on lobbing scorchers, but I'm not convinced that the problem is open play defend defending. And i so I don't, my point is, I don't think this is a result of sort of like throwing caution to the wind on offense.
00:43:35
Speaker
Really the the problem this year was ah c combination of, they gave up a bunch more penalties this year. They gave up a bunch more own goals, but really the main problem was that they gave up I believe eight more set piece goals this year than they did last year.
00:43:48
Speaker
That's just a, you know, in their net, their net difference on, on PK on penalties or sorry, on, on set pieces was something like 13, net difference of 13 goals because they also scored less on, on set pieces. And so that's to me where you have to focus your energy is how do we get better on set pieces? And the good news is that that seems like something you can do through mostly through coaching.
00:44:11
Speaker
Yeah, especially because, look, if you've obsessed as much as I have in this Minnesota game, look, the set pieces, is and I don't want to come down on, like, Alex or or Obed, but Obed specifically, he'd he'd been beaten to quite a few set pieces this year.
00:44:29
Speaker
Obviously, it's not a big part of his game, and you have to try to shield that at times. Yeah. that the the the second the The last goal that puts up Minnesota up 3-2,
00:44:41
Speaker
It was almost you know like frustrating beyond the point of
00:44:49
Speaker
Like the way. No one marks more can at any point. No one does. And look, it's a good design play to pull Alex away because there is a runner that kind of pulls away. And I think it's Albert Alex. I put it more on Alex in this one, but you have to be prepared for that. Right. And that those are the situations where.
00:45:12
Speaker
I guess it does go back to the coaching a bit, but it also goes to, in my opinion, mainly to player awareness. You have to be a guy that understands, okay, this is this is where the ball is coming from.
00:45:22
Speaker
This guy is just making a run just to make it. There is some savviness there that that needs to happen. And again, i don't want to criticize a guy like Alex, who had such a phenomenal season in so many ways, yeah being so versatile, being you' such a good defender, you know, ironically.
00:45:40
Speaker
But those are the things that you might have to change. Now, when it comes to personnel, I just don't know if if there's a huge change that could help you there. um And that's why part of the reason why I say that this isn't a success is not just Leak's cup, but because you know you have a core group that is going to take over next season.
Future of Key Players
00:46:01
Speaker
It's almost obvious that you know that Andrew Thomas is going to take over at the goalkeeping position. I really do hope for even for Stefan Fry.
00:46:12
Speaker
I want him to just let that go to Andrew Thomas. simply because I have so much respect for stuff that I always say all of my stars, all the hall of famers that I've watched in sports, I want them to retire and not the sport to retire them.
00:46:33
Speaker
And I feel like this was the perfect end of his stardom for for seven fry now you allowed your Thomas to take over next season and you're not worried about having this really good young guy behind you questioning every single game that you hop on and then all of a sudden maybe you're taking off four five six games into the season so that's why I want it to happen but you have a core group you know that you get Christian for the long run You know that you have Jesus Pereira, who was excellent all season, who was versatile, who was cerebral, who was a key component in how fluid this offense was. You have Jordan Morris still for the long run.
00:47:08
Speaker
You know, you have key players that going to be here for a while. and and And I feel like that's huge. That's why the whole... thought process of you got to blow it up. You have to just get rid of yeah everyone.
00:47:21
Speaker
There's some major changes that need to happen in this team is ludicrous. It's ludicrous. It's crazy because you're completely ignoring everything that you did well this season because you got bounced off in the first week or the first round of the playoffs.
00:47:37
Speaker
Like that doesn't happen always or, or at times, are you the first fifth seed to go out in the first round of the playoffs? Come on, man. Like, what are we talking about? Like, we could not have this panic mentality yeah or you're getting nowhere. So so to me, as I mentioned on on KJR on on on Wednesday, I like to think that both you and i have enough respect of the audience to know.
00:48:07
Speaker
For them to know that the when we are the voice of clarity and calmness is not because we don't respect their passion and we don't understand that you want to be upset that your team did not get as far as they should have.
00:48:18
Speaker
But you also have to understand that there is a lot of good pieces to this team that you don't want to just get rid of because you're upset. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I understand people want to, you know, and people want to rage at the end of a season.
00:48:32
Speaker
all but we're also, we're not here to <unk> say your rage is correct. right You know, yeah we're we're here to to like say, I understand why you're, I understand why you're mad, but also understand that the foundation that the Sounders built this year, I think is probably stronger than it's frankly ever been.
00:48:51
Speaker
ah That said, we are expecting some change this off every year has change. ah You sort of alluded to one of the big ones. What's your sense of what happens with Steph Fry? You know, he is out of contract.
00:49:03
Speaker
He has said, He has said that he'd like to play another year. I, I suspect that he is open to returning though, as a backup. And I would think that the only way he comes back to the Sounders is as a backup, but what, how do you see that situation playing out?
00:49:22
Speaker
My educated guests, knowing as much as I know of Steph, the person, and now we're not boys. I don't know him as much as other players,
00:49:36
Speaker
But following him and covering as long as I have, I do think that he wants to continue to be a goalkeeper. He has a passion for it. He is one of the first guys in the training field every day and one of the last ones to leave.
00:49:52
Speaker
That sort of commitment and routine without, you know, necessarily the pressure to be the guy make me think that he will be back.
00:50:05
Speaker
maybe for a couple of years and be a backup and someone that's going to continue to help mold the future goalkeepers for this team.
00:50:16
Speaker
I think that, Stephen Fry has embedded himself in the community of the Pacific Northwest, of the Sounders. And I would not be surprised in any way if he's like the next Tom Dutra or something. You know, is this he he is just that sort of iconic player. So for me, he stays, he signs for a couple of years, and then he essentially retires with the Sounders.
00:50:41
Speaker
And he will fill as a great option off the bench, substitute, experienced goalkeeper for this team. Yeah, that's, that's, I would say that's my hope.
00:50:54
Speaker
That's, I think that's my expectation is that he'll do that. And I think it's a good, I think that's a good solution for everybody. i think the devil is going to be in the details there where hopefully Brian is equally sort of open to like letting,
00:51:14
Speaker
letting Andrew have some, some growing pains. And I think we've seen signs that he is, you know, ah it would have been tempting in the league's cup final, for instance, to give it to Steph Fry.
00:51:28
Speaker
ah He did not do that. It would have been tempting to bring him back earlier in last year's league's cup than he did. He didn't do that. So like I think there's absolutely reason to believe that Brian understands that this is a transition that has to happen.
00:51:44
Speaker
And Andrew Thomas has done every, I think that's the thing for me though, is Andrew Thomas has done everything you can ask of him. He went 10, two and three this year. He put up very good numbers. He was the goalkeeper of the tournament in leagues cup.
00:51:57
Speaker
I don't see any reason why we shouldn't have faith that he can handle this job full time and then go from there. ah But there's some other big I think that there's some bigger questions really around around the Sounders as well.
00:52:10
Speaker
Namely, what's going to happen with Paul Rothrock and Obed Vargas? You've done a fair amount of reporting on that. What can you share at this point as to where you see those two situations going?
00:52:23
Speaker
Well, let's start with the more complicated one because there doesn't necessarily seem to be a resolution in the horizon, but also not a break of negotiation. So that's the Obit Barga situation.
00:52:38
Speaker
Talks are still ongoing. There's still a believe that there will be a resolution and that Obed Vargas will sign a contract with the team.
00:52:51
Speaker
But there is a clear gap between what Obed Vargas camp wants in terms of um compensation and moving forward and, you know, almost what the Sounders have available to, to provide. So, so yeah it's going to be interesting how that works out, but because there is a relationship between player and club, the Albert Bargers family and Albert Bargers, I think that they are very thankful and grateful for everything that the Sounders have done for them.
00:53:29
Speaker
This whole time, you know, bringing in from Alaska, everything they have done. And then the club for a player that has been outstanding, that has always come out to play that even though we could argue you and I that he should have been fairly compensated and maybe this would not be a problem if you had restructure his contract a year ago.
00:53:51
Speaker
Yeah. it'd be a lot easier to handle. and and you know, that's fair, right? That that compensation should have happened. But the the Sounders are are grateful that even that didn't happen.
00:54:04
Speaker
Ovid's been game in, game out, given 110% of his body, his technique, his talent to this team, right? There was never moping around. I'm not going to practice.
00:54:17
Speaker
I'm going to take to the media that I'm not, you know, nothing. He's just been a great professional. So because of that, that's what's keeping, that's the glue in my opinion. That's what's keeping these negotiations together. So I'll let you comment on that before we talk about Paul Rothrock.
00:54:34
Speaker
I think that that's a that seems about as where I would have guessed it was going to be. i think that to the degree that fans can be frustrated, i think it's that we didn't get a deal done for him last summer.
00:54:49
Speaker
And we're now in a point where the two sides have sometimes not perfectly aligned ah hopes and dreams right now. The Sounders, I think, still ultimately would like to move Obed, but they and i don't think they're getting overwhelmed with offers right now.
00:55:09
Speaker
And so they're not loving what it looks like, the the the world looks like in terms of being able to sell Obed this winter. And if they do sell Obed this winter, I think there's a recognition that it's going to have to be for considerably less than they think he's worth.
00:55:23
Speaker
you know I think you could make an argument that he's worth 10, 15, maybe even $20 million dollars under a perfect set of circumstances. If you go into the summer and you have him under contract for three more years, there's a lot of reason to think that you might you might be able to get a real bag for him.
00:55:41
Speaker
But given that he's going into the last year of his contract, he's still young. A lot of teams are going to look at that and say, why shouldn't we just wait until summer and sign him to a pre-contract?
00:55:52
Speaker
I think that's going to hurt his market in the short term in ah in a variety of different ways. And you know i think the best case for the Sounders at this point seems to me to be kind of get what you can.
00:56:06
Speaker
As much fun as it would be to sort of ride out the final year of an Obed Vargas contract, and maybe he delivers a championship and it all seems worth it. That's a big gamble. And I think the worst case scenario in this thing is probably not, maybe not the worst case, but one of the worst case scenarios is letting him play out the contract and him walking at the end of 2026 and you getting nothing out of it other than maybe some,
00:56:32
Speaker
Like, I guess maybe there's some training compensation, like a consult, what do they call it? um there There might be some small amount of money that they can they can recoup over the the life of Obed Vargas's career.
00:56:46
Speaker
But that would be that would be a tough blow because this has been seen as sort of their... their sort of cornerstone of their transfer strategy for a long time, where they were waiting for this money to come in and then, and then they could go out and do something.
00:57:02
Speaker
But I, I think from ah from a fan perspective, really the best we can hope for is probably like if they can get somewhere between four and $5 million dollars in the winter and then turn around and turn that into $3 million dollars a gam, that's a great deal because that $3 million a gam is money that we know they can spend on the roster.
00:57:21
Speaker
Whereas frankly, we don't know what they're going to do. If they get, let's say if they get a $20 million dollars transfer, we don't know for certain that it's going to get reinvested back into future transfer fees in part because they don't have an open DP spot right now.
00:57:35
Speaker
So they can't go out and really maximize the transfer. Like if they got a ah huge transfer fee, they can't really maximize that anyway. So I don't know. I feel like if they can move them this, this winter, that's kind of got to be where they, they put their, their focus.
00:57:51
Speaker
You're spot on. And the problem with that, and you've alluded to that is that anytime you have a fire sale, you're, yeah you're, you're, you're compromising the value, right? Regardless of of what happens, right?
00:58:06
Speaker
the the The unfortunate thing is that ends up affecting everybody. Both you and I know how much Obed wants to be part of 2026 World Cup with Mexico. Mm-hmm.
00:58:20
Speaker
no one that that really wants to be part of a team and it's on the bubble of making or not making a team makes a change this late because regardless of where you go, there is a possibility that you don't get minutes, that there is a learning curve, but that, you know, there's just so many unknown variables when you make that change that it could very easily affect whether or not a head coach like Javier and i would bring you in. Javier Aguirre could say, look, you just went to Bruges and I don't feel comfortable bringing you in because you're just not in rhythm right now. So,
00:58:58
Speaker
By making this fire cell, you are affecting what I thought was an $8 million dollar figure. That's what I thought was the least that you would take for Ovid Vargas. Now maybe you're taking five right or six just to make sure that you get something out of it. Because to your point, it would be absolute malpractice to the point of costing you your job if you allow Ovid to walk out on a free.
00:59:24
Speaker
It's that simple. Yeah. And that's why, you know, there is a lot of leverage on, the Ovid Vargas camp, although it's a huge gamble because ah aside from an injury that happens on the field, i don't know, God help it, ah an illness or a car accident or anything that that happens in the world that could affect you as a professional, you would have no insurance of having a contract, right? You you just would not be able to manage it any more than that.
00:59:56
Speaker
So it seems like the right, decision would be take the million dollar max that the Sanders could potentially give you, give yourself a three year, maybe you do a two year with an option, whatever it is.
01:00:09
Speaker
The Sanders... It is in their benefit to move you. So they're not going to hold you hostage. Right. But you're able to focus on 2026 with Mexico. And then we'll see what happens after that. But now it becomes this rush forced transaction that might not end up being good for player or club or not as good.
01:00:32
Speaker
Right. Yeah. It's yeah. Fingers crossed. well hopeful Well, hopefully this gets worked out. and And this is all sort of moot, but it is it is a tricky situation, which is kind of similar to the situation going on with Paul Rothrock, where you know he is a free agent right now.
01:00:52
Speaker
The max that he can get on free agency is about $830,000. That's based on the CBA. In case you're curious, how I got that number. The max salary budget charge is $805,000 year.
01:01:06
Speaker
ah free agents can make $25,000 more than that. So you add those two together and you're basically, you're talking about $830,000. That's the max. Cook Jeremiah cook.
01:01:17
Speaker
That's the, that's the max that he can get. My understanding. it what I'll let you do it. It's your reporting. So I don't want to get out over your, over the skis. Where does that situation seem like it is from what you've seen?
01:01:30
Speaker
What I'm hearing exactly in all of the research that I've done is that Paul Rothrock and his camp have no intent to get anything lower than max possible amount for Paul Rothrock.
01:01:49
Speaker
That puts the Sounders in a very tough situation, but one that's pretty clear cut because it's really up to the player. You could...
01:02:00
Speaker
Twisted and say, no, that the team could give the the full 830. But at the end of the day, as much as i have been a Paul Rothrock guy through and through, i have fought so people would give him his due respect.
01:02:18
Speaker
I have been out here in this show and every show saying, look, Paul Rutherford is a guy that for this system has been unbelievable. He's a key component to the success of this team. He just doesn't have the leverage that Obed does.
01:02:33
Speaker
So when it comes to the negotiating table, if you have no leverage, all I could say is, look, Paul, this is how much I can give you. And that's the most. Either you take it or as much as we'd love to have you back,
01:02:47
Speaker
It is your prerogative to go test the free market and try to get you that amount elsewhere within MLS or elsewhere anywhere else.
01:02:59
Speaker
And if you can get it, the more power to you. right You've been great. You've been phenomenal. But we cannot handicap our salary structure to give you that amount. And although $200,000 might seem not that much,
01:03:16
Speaker
which, you know, I guess it's easier said than done because, it I mean, it seems like a lot of money, but that could break a cab salary type of roster like we have in MLS. So have to go to the point, and I'll finish with this, that Paul Rother was obviously walk-on on this team. You know, he's a player that unfortunately broke late, you know, 26 years old.
01:03:42
Speaker
He just doesn't have the trajectory that others have. And so we can't compare him to other more established wingers because I'm sure that's what his agent is doing. Look, so-and-so is getting this much. So-and-so is getting that much.
01:03:55
Speaker
But because of the circumstances, you kind of have to continue to earn that salary by playing on the field. Yeah, unfortunately, MLS is sort of littered with players who had late career renaissance and then ah relatively late, like matured career renaissance.
01:04:14
Speaker
And then we're not able to sustain it. And you can go around and you can find plenty of these players ah who looked like they were extremely good players for a brief period of time. And then they ended up not doing anything.
01:04:27
Speaker
nearly as much as like Kevin Molino is a, is a good example of this or ah who's the guy Atlanta signed from the, the Haitian guy that they signed ah ah from.
01:04:38
Speaker
Anyway, there's there's like plenty of examples of players who look, they had a couple good year runs and then they, they get paid and they, they don't work out. Right. And I'm not saying that's what's going to happen to Paul, but it's a risk. Right.
01:04:50
Speaker
And I think that MLS teams are very wary of giving big money players. players from within the league who don't have a long track record.
01:05:01
Speaker
And the reality is that Paul does not have a long track record. It's not like he was throwing up enormous numbers either. I mean, let's be real. He he's, you know, he had five goals, six assists, I believe this year.
01:05:14
Speaker
Those are good numbers. They are not break the bank type of numbers. And I think that's, what What Paul may end up finding out, unfortunately, is that the Sounders put a higher value on him than other teams because part of his value for the Sounders is not just the goals and the assists.
01:05:33
Speaker
It's the relationship that he has with Brian. It's the relationship that he has with teammates. It's the relationship he has with fans. And you you you throw that all together and the Sounders are probably willing to pay some premium, which they, i would imagine, believe is reflected in the offer that they have already made him.
01:05:51
Speaker
Correct. a And so the the risk that's going to come now is that if Paul says, I appreciate the offer, but I'm going to go see what the market will offer, is that the sounders aren't just going to sit on their hands and then wait for Paul to come back.
01:06:08
Speaker
Now, maybe it works out where they don't find someone that they want. and Right. And Paul quickly decides, like, maybe this isn't the the scene. And, hey, can we still – is that all that offer still good? you know that's ah Maybe with that's what happens here.
01:06:21
Speaker
But there's also a um kind of – ah a potential reality where Paul says, I'm out. The sounders say, okay, we're going to plan B plan. B might be like a Ryan can't restructured contract or something.
01:06:35
Speaker
And they sign him. And then all of a sudden the money that they were going to play, Paul just isn't there anymore. And, and now Paul is got one, you know, Paul, maybe i don't want to say this is what's going to happen, but it's a,
01:06:47
Speaker
it's a potential thing that could happen is that Paul might be in a situation where he's actually taking less money to go play for a different team who has an, a coach who is less invested in his success, a place where he's less comfortable and he's having to prove himself all over again, which, Hey, ah Paul has been able to do over and over again is, is prove himself in new places.
01:07:09
Speaker
But I would imagine he's also at a point in his career where he was hoping to not have to do that. And ah so I don't know. I do hope this situation works out, but I also can't really judge the Sounders too harshly for not sort of breaking their budget on either the the Obed or Paul situations.
01:07:28
Speaker
I think the degree to which that we can second guess both of those, though, is is like Vargas, where they had opportunities to re-sign him probably last year. The Sounders definitely had an um um opportunity to sign Paul last year for a lot less than they're offering him now. I think he, my understanding is he was off. He was asking for three 50 or 400 last year. And the Sounders were trying to get them on closer to like two 50.
01:07:52
Speaker
That looks like it was a mistake. Like that, that, yeah that one's hard to, that that one's a little tougher, but you know, like these are, that's how these things go and you take the risk and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.
01:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, obviously, it's a lot more blatant on Ovid's part because I think that, yes unfortunately, it does when it comes to Ovid, it does feel like an overseen of talent evaluation. think you, me, and everybody knew where...
01:08:24
Speaker
Ovid was going to end up. I mean, he's raised his price tag from like six to like $8 million dollars in the transfer market. So you should have probably, you should have seen that a lot sooner and and locked him in for x amount of money with Paul Rothrock. It's a little bit more difficult, but you're right. They could have absolutely signed them for more. And look to, to Paul's,
01:08:46
Speaker
effort and and and to give him his credit like he's a guy that was you know there was a point where he didn't really know if he was going to be part of this team he didn't know if he could make it ah you know he struggled with a whole bunch of stuff there was a lot of teammates around the sounders that helped continue to stay positive and and and make the breakthrough that he finally did and now that he's there he's he's kind of being gassed up to be this iconic player as well, right? I mean, you take Leagues Cup and everything that went into Leagues Cup, the Sounders themselves to a certain point are part of the problem with, you know, that yeah they put a lot of money into that stock.
01:09:24
Speaker
They created the monster. They created the monster. Correct. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, in and it's, you know, so that's, and I will say again, Paul has made a career out of betting on himself.
01:09:37
Speaker
And as much as we love that being a Seattle story, and it was sort of about his betting on himself in Seattle, He's done this other places too. You know, he went to college first at Notre Dame and then he transferred midway through to Georgetown and he won a national championship with Georgetown.
01:09:55
Speaker
He, he got drafted by Toronto. He, you know, he, he went through it there. He worked himself into, he made his MLS debut to his credit. It, despite being a third round draft pick in Toronto, he has proven himself over and over again.
01:10:10
Speaker
and and maybe it's, you know foolhardy for us to, to the bet against him in any way, but it is a, it's a risk. That's all I'm saying is that there's risk involved on both sides. And, you know, hopefully it works out. Cause I would, I would,
01:10:24
Speaker
I like this team more when Paul Rothrock is on it. Paul is probably the most interesting quote the Sounders have had since at least Brad Evans.
01:10:34
Speaker
If not, but yeah like maybe even more than Brad. Like Paul is so... Well, he's able to articulate his emotions and his feelings and give you a sense of the vibe in the team in such an effective and inspiring way that I love covering him. I love Paul's personality. I love watching him play.
01:10:57
Speaker
He's a great story. it will be less fun to cover this team if he's not here. But I also feel like I would be doing a disservice if I didn't acknowledge that there but he's not the perfect player, that the Sounders can't afford to just break the bank to bring him back and give him whatever he wants.
01:11:12
Speaker
And that I think both parties are at least acting in what they perceive are their best interests. And I i sort of can't be mad about that. Yeah, and look, on the field, to me, he's been the most electric and guaranteed spark plug sub that I've ever seen for the Sounders.
01:11:35
Speaker
He's been a guy that just can turn it on. just in a second, as soon as he puts his first foot on the field, he can turn it on. That's what he's done for the team in the past. He obviously did not have a ah great final game with, with the team this season, but he has done it before that. And he's a guy that even as a starter, his,
01:11:57
Speaker
intangibles and his energy and his duality when he comes to defense and offense, ah the havoc that he creates, all those things, you know, that they're valued. And that's why, you know, he he's a guy that I think could replicate some of the numbers that he's had here with the Sounders elsewhere. If he gets the minutes, you know, that's something that I don't say about every player.
01:12:18
Speaker
And that's what he's been able to prove to me is that he's a guy that could essentially go out there and make those numbers. What think doubt is that there are teams willing to pay him what he believes he's worth to get that into their team.
01:12:35
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that that's sort of, that's where the rubber hits the road is, you know, at, you know, six 50, you call it, I think there's probably a fair number of teams that say, this is something that we're interested in in, looking at, at, you know, closer to eight 50, you know,
01:12:53
Speaker
You know, you're you're getting into a zone where you're you're talking about we can go find players from abroad that will have similar profiles who might have higher upsides. its Some teams might be even surprised that it's 650, you know, if that's the figure, you know.
01:13:06
Speaker
I call it the Jackson-Reagan baseline, right? I feel like yeah him and Jackson kind of came in in the same fashion. Yeah. The center back position was ah a lot of bigger need at the time when Jackson came in and had this phenomenal season. He's talked about as defender of the year multiple times, and he moved on from winning a hundred thousand, something like that to six something.
01:13:30
Speaker
So that's where I laid the line at the, even at that price tag, I feel like some teams might be like, wow, that's, that's a lot of money simply and only specifically because of how he came on into the scene.
01:13:43
Speaker
And that might not be fair. It might not be fair, but, but that's just the way of the world, if you will. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think those are, we can kind of go through the whole roster, I suppose, and, and sort of break this down and maybe we will, maybe after the sounders availability, we will go through a whole
Podcast Reflections and Future Plans
01:14:01
Speaker
thing.
01:14:01
Speaker
we didn't even talk about the, the, the sales stuff, but we can, you know, we, that's something that I think we're going to get more information on. We've, we've done some, so we actually, I guess we did, we did a whole episode on the, on the sale last week.
01:14:15
Speaker
So um we'll have more to say about it though, as we move on, Nico, it's been great catching up with you. This season has been A lot of fun. ah This was easily the biggest change that we've made to the network ever since we brought Lobbing Scorchers and the Cooler Guild into it.
01:14:33
Speaker
And just adding this show has been really great for me personally. I've enjoyed interacting with you. And I'm looking forward to making this a thing next year as well and doing some episodes in the off season. So I just want to say thank you, Nico.
01:14:46
Speaker
I know our listeners have loved this. This ends up being, I believe the most listened to show on the whole network on a weekly basis. So ah congrats for that. And yeah, I don't know.
01:14:58
Speaker
I just say, say thank you. No, well, Jeremiah, well, since you're forcing the goodbyes out of me, ah first of all, fills my heart to hear that the people enjoying my coverage, our coverage.
01:15:12
Speaker
Obviously, adding on to Sandra Hart is always intimidating because you guys are such a a great source of news and information. I've called you multiple times. This may have information for the Sounders. And I do believe that because of the time you've done it, the commitment that you have to your fan base, the trust that I hear people have in Sounder Heart Heart. If you need something, if you want to hear something, there's only one side that you go to in Sounder Heart Heart.
01:15:42
Speaker
So you allowing me to be part of this network and podcasting. It just, it fills my heart hearing that people enjoy it. Cause I do believe that you have the best fans, the best followers that that really want to get into nitty gritty of, of the sounders.
01:15:57
Speaker
So for me, i appreciate the opportunity. i want to continue to be part of this project. If you would allow me, if the fans would allow I want to continue to grow this and and get better next year. And, uh,
01:16:12
Speaker
Just thank you to you. Thank you to the audience. Thank you for the comments, the support. I hear a lot of it, whether it's on the streets or, is ah you know, my DMs or, ah you know, just just regular posts. I hear the comments. I feel I'm good or bad. I'm just very.
01:16:27
Speaker
proud to be part of this project. And I feel privileged to have this platform to provide everything that I can, right? Just whatever is that I can dig up, whatever it is that I could provide with my insight, with my opinion, it it all has 110% of my effort. So thank you for having it in your network.
01:16:46
Speaker
Well, that's a that's a great place to, I think, call this. ah This has been, well we again, I don't want to get ahead of ourselves. I just wanted to say that, get it on the record.
01:16:59
Speaker
We are going to probably be doing another show soon. I don't know if it's going to be next week or not, but ah we will have another episode just to remind you. You're listening to, or I'm Jeremiah Shan signing off for No Sardietes, part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network, and we will catch you next time
01:17:43
Speaker
Let's go and Sounders. um