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The 2025 End of Season What We Learned This Week roster episode
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Niko joins Jeremiah for what they were calling the “last What We Learned This Week” for the year because today’s press conference was probably the last real information for the rest of 2025. The guys discussed said press conference which was aimed at addressing the current state of the Sounders’ roster. They talk about how they think the team is set up going into the 2026 campaign and what they believe will be their best opportunities for improvement.
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Transcript
Will Bruin joins Sounder at Heart Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network.
Seattle Sounders: MLS Cup Victors
00:00:11
Speaker
Here we go.
00:00:11
Speaker
Come on. Hey, O'Shaan. Let's go. The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winners. Here comes Ruiz Diaz through the middle to crown it for Seattle.
00:00:25
Speaker
The Sounders rule the region.
Reflecting on Sounders' Past and Present
00:00:58
Speaker
what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't? Ever since I wrote a commentary that we didn't take the outcome seriously.
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
Sounders' End-of-Season Press Conference Overview
00:01:41
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Adietes on the Center at Heart Podcast Network. I am Jeremiah O'Shan. We are at Long Acres. We just got finished with the end-of-season press conference with Craig Weibel and Brian Schmetzer. And I am joined by Nico Moreno for, I guess, what we'll we're going to call this maybe the the last episode of what we learned this week. Because...
00:02:04
Speaker
I don't know. i don't know. We have to call it that. Anyway, Nico, welcome to the show. Welcome back. Thank you. And I think we it's fair to call it because what we'll learn from here on out would be more based on an opinion than observations. And I feel like that's the the premises of our show.
00:02:22
Speaker
Good job there, identifying what our show is, because I had a hard time identifying that. But that is a good. Yeah, this is based on our observations. And this is something that we can share our observations from. And it was.
00:02:35
Speaker
I would say a particularly un-newsy press conference. It was it was like almost 40 minutes. There wasn't a lot revealed. Maybe the most authoritative thing that the Sounders, I guess there's two main takeaways. One is they seem very confident in the group that they're bringing back. They have 22 players coming back.
00:02:55
Speaker
We can run through the list of of who's leaving and who's coming. But as of today, they have 22 players under contract for 2026 a lot beyond. a lot beyond And they feel pretty good about the group that they're bringing back. I would go as far to say that based on today, the distinct impression I got was that the starting lineup on first kick will probably, I would give it maybe a 75 to 80% chance, be made up of players that are currently on the roster today.
00:03:28
Speaker
ah Yeah.
Current Roster Assessment and Future Potential
00:03:29
Speaker
And I believe that when you truthfully and honestly look into the season and you are not hyperbolic about the way the season ended, it's a fair approach. I would say it's a coherent approach to what...
00:03:53
Speaker
I think this team needs to build on. ah Do I think that there's places that there is a need to maybe get a little help? Absolutely. And there's definitely room for improvement. But I think both you and i know that going into next season, with the exception of Pedro De La Vega, who is clearly not going to be available until about April,
00:04:15
Speaker
The starting 11 is pretty much there. ah Another one that could be pending is what happens with Obed. Yeah, I mean, there's variables there. And I'm not saying it's this exact same starting lineup from the last game, but like Obed's replacement is probably already on the roster.
00:04:32
Speaker
True, true. Pedro De La Vega's replacement is probably already on the roster, at least as far as the season opening goes. And that, you know, this time last year, if I remember correctly, or not this time, but when we had this press conference last year, they were already well down the road of the Jesus Ferreira trade.
00:04:51
Speaker
And they were talking openly about we need to add offensive firepower, They clearly had they had an open DP spot. There was a lot of things that were going, a lot of question marks that were going into last offseason that are just not not here. ah And that doesn't, again, like you said, it's not that they can't improve. It's just that they feel secure in the group they have. and And that has been something that I feel...
Youth Development Success in Sounders' Academy
00:05:18
Speaker
If you're a Sounder fan or if you're just a fan of of MLS, you have to, in sorts of ways, give the Sounders credit and give them the benefit of the doubt that that's the right way to success because they have done a lot and it has been proven that through their academy and through Tacoma Defiance, they've been able to bring in players to fill in spots to be successful. Today, Craig Weibel talked about Osasio de Rosario being a guy that they felt like by sitting on that U22 spot that they were hoping to go out there and and get, let's say, out broad, by not doing that and and allowing a guy like Osasio de Rosario to get more minutes to see what you get out of him, maybe that was the best move. and he sounded like...
00:06:08
Speaker
I mean, he was, ah he almost was taking a victory lap on He was, he was. That was the closest thing he came to being, sort of like pounding his chest, was he was like, it was a good thing we didn't make that signing because it allowed Osaze sort of show that he,
00:06:24
Speaker
in And to his credit, you know, it's easy to sit here and say that in some ways, but they deserve some credit. They do. If Osase, if the Sounders, it and we kind of were saying this at the time, they had signed players who produced the way that Osase and Snyder Brunel did, and they were coming from abroad.
00:06:41
Speaker
I think there would have been a lot more excitement. There would be no questions about, are they willing to spend? and Because they would have obviously spent, but they, you know, those were both players, I think, performed at a much higher level than you would have expected a random U-22 to come in and perform at off the bat.
00:06:59
Speaker
Absolutely. And this all goes into clearly providing, you know, depth, providing a guy that's going to, you know, push for more minutes.
Financial Constraints on Sounders' Roster
00:07:10
Speaker
And, know,
00:07:12
Speaker
The reality of a question that you asked that I thought was spot on is the lack of flexibility that this team has when it comes to the cab to go out there and and make major changes. That's why, you know, I find it laughable that I have heard some people talked about. in in other places in you know the the universe of this MLS content creation is that that that the Sounders next season is is pivotal. There's some big changes coming. None of that is true. and all of that is actually almost delusional because ah the Sounders –
00:07:49
Speaker
have no flexibility. There's no upcoming big contracts that are going to end. There's no indicators that tell you anything other than this team is going to be, like you said, 80% the same because of the season that they were having, because of the success that they found, because of the core group of the players that they have put together. This is an 86 goal team, the best they've ever had. This is a one loss at home team that you need to continue to build on. So there's all of these components that clearly tell you that you have to build from what you have within right now.
00:08:22
Speaker
And it would be one thing if we were talking about them bringing back the same roster because they just didn't have the creativity or the money or whatever else. But the reality is that they had a good season last year. They were very close to getting out.
00:08:38
Speaker
That maybe undersells it. They should have gotten out of the first round. And I don't know that there's any number of moves they could have made that would have ensured a better result because where they failed to where they failed against Minnesota was in areas where no one was really talking about trying to improve this team.
00:08:54
Speaker
They gave up two. We've said this a million times, but it bears repeating. The difference between them advancing and them getting knocked out was giving up two set piece goals when you were up a man and then missing two penalties when you had a chance to clinch Those are the that' that's not about a particular player failing to deliver.
Future Roster Outlook
00:09:18
Speaker
I mean, Jordan Morris came through and scored one of the most clutch goals of his career. 88 minute goal equalizer on the road descended into into penalties. there's I don't know that you could have put anyone, you couldve like you can't put Sungman Hoon on the roster and say, oh, he's going to do better. Oh, by the way guess who missed his penalty in the and in in the shootout, by the way. But it's a you know and so i think it's it's one thing to say that you want them to make change.
00:09:47
Speaker
Totally fair. We all like new things. It's another thing to say they have to make changes because I just don't know that they have. I don't see any reason why they have ah they have a bunch of young guys coming up.
00:09:59
Speaker
They have a bunch of veterans who are not too old, that are very much in the prime of their career. This is a team that has both the present and even some of the future in a good position. This is not a bad position to be working from.
00:10:14
Speaker
And again, look, I will die on the hill. And I hope that people find my honesty, it what it is. And all I want to do is be a voice of clarity. It's very easy to to panic and to paint everything with this shed brush. I could say that word. yeah sure because the team lost. But the reality is that there's a lot of things that the Sounders are doing well. And this season was a perfect example.
00:10:41
Speaker
Look at what Kalani Kostorienzi was able to come in and do and the way he was able to perform and the way he was able to be a contributor. Look at Georgie Manungu's development and growth and the ability that I think he has. He's someone that I feel like if there's a question is how many more minutes can we give this guy, up you know, in, in, in, on the wing, you have ah guys like a Snyder Brunel that today, Brian talked about not not just his, his IQ, but the way that he crashes the box and, and the goals that he got, you got to go like Danny Leyva that I have said in several shows in the Sounder of Heart podcast network that he's a guy that I feel like is is ready to take on Obed's role once Obed leaves. So you have to give him the way of the doubt because the proof is in the pudding and the proof is last season.
00:11:30
Speaker
I would totally agree with that. And it was, ah you know, it's funny. The one player that we didn't really talk about at the press conference and maybe is the glaring player that was, you know, and you mentioned was Georgie Manungu. Here's a player who on a per minute basis was as productive as just about anyone.
00:11:48
Speaker
And he is poised for... You know, there's a lot of talk about, oh, well, what are they going to do with Pedro De La Vega out for the first couple months of the season? And, you know, we don't know what Paul Areola's condition is going to be. And we don't know if Paul Rothrock is going to be back. Those are all legitimate questions.
00:12:06
Speaker
But it's not like they where where what it does is it opens up a real opportunity for Georgie to get minutes. And this is a player who I think anyone who watches ah him play for just 10 or 15 minutes can see why you would want to see him get more minutes and why you would want to be excited. Like I'm genuinely excited about the prospect of him maybe opening the season with a real shot to establish himself.
00:12:30
Speaker
Yeah, and there's there's the Polarriola possibility. Then eventually in April-ish, you'll get Pedro back. ah That's maybe a position where you know you could also add other guys onto that attacking end. Someone like Reed Baker Whiting.
00:12:47
Speaker
think that the team is currently looking for a left back or wing back depending on what they're hoping to do next season. So I feel like that's a place where you could add some depth um and you could maybe make Ree Baker-Widey more of a full-on winger. So there's just a lot of ways to fulfill those
Sounders' Strategic and Ambition Analysis
00:13:09
Speaker
positions.
00:13:09
Speaker
Now, again, I'm not sitting here telling you that I feel like this team should... go into next season and do absolutely nothing. I think that there will be some acquisitions, but I just want to create a, a real expectation with some set of baseline, set of baseline. That's beautifully put a baseline that is founded with some real insight and, and some true knowledge of, know,
00:13:36
Speaker
the game and what the way things are done within the Sounders. So all of you out there listening to this aren't expecting Mbappé to be here next season. I hope that none of you are, but there just seems to be, you know, this small group of people that, that believe that that's what's needed to win. And if the Sounders have done anything, even when I've doubted them, even when I've doubted them,
00:14:00
Speaker
which was like two years ago when I looked at the roster and I was like, ah that's tough. They've been able to get to a Western Conference final. And and this year, again, you just mentioned it, regardless of the the way you went out it and it was disappointing, you have to take the body of work. You have to take what they were able to do in League's Cup and understand that there is a potential for this team to in my opinion, go out there and be a top three team in the West. Yeah, we know just off the mics we were talking about what does this team need to do to level up.
00:14:32
Speaker
And the thing is, is that within the constraints of what they have, I don't know that there is. I think this is a frustrating answer. There is not an easy way. There is not an obvious thing that you can say.
00:14:44
Speaker
and I'm sure a lot of people say, well, go out and get a number, and get a true number nine. I hear that all the time. And I'm not going to discount the possibility that you can upgrade from Jordan Morris.
00:14:55
Speaker
But I think we also have to be realistic about how hard it is to upgrade from Jordan Morris. It's not that easy to go from a player who does all the things that Jordan does well to someone who's going to fit in seamlessly. Now, if the Sounders had an unlimited budget,
00:15:11
Speaker
that would probably be a position that they would try to upgrade from. Because because theoretically, you could move Jordan Morris on, open up that spot, and then go sign, like for lack of a better player, a Peter Musa.
00:15:24
Speaker
a play right a A player who is likely, vaguely available if you have the money, who you know can perform in MLS. Could you bring him in, and would you feel like you have upgraded the roster?
00:15:36
Speaker
You would. You'd feel that way. Would that guarantee any better performance?
Player Expectations for Next Season
00:15:41
Speaker
No. I don't think it would do that either. No. Of course not. And... I always go with the way clubs do business. When was the last time that the Sounders moved on from a DP, whether it's through a sell or transaction? But Oba maybe? It might be one. I would say Oba is the only player who the only DP in recent memory that they've moved on from.
00:16:08
Speaker
pre like prematurely for lack of a better term, ah where they, they just said he is not performing at the level we need, you you know, like Nico and Raul for all intents and purposes retired as the correct. Like they didn't, they didn't literally retire, but they moved on. They moved on in ways that are the natural end cycle of their time.
00:16:27
Speaker
you have to You would have to, same thing, Clint Dempsey basically moved on once his life site his playing cycle was over. ah Trying to think who would have been before that. And I guess Oba, yeah, Oba would probably be the one before that.
00:16:39
Speaker
and And then, sure, before Oba, there was like a litany of players who they bought out and they sort of got out of for, you know, earlier on. But for the modern era of and MLS, this is not what they do. They do not move on from a Jordan Morris, especially if he's performing. I've seen people suggest that they should move on from Albert Rusanek. He's coming off two straight, like almost best 11 quality years. I'm not quite sure how much better you think anyone's going to be. you know Is he the best number 10 in the league?
00:17:08
Speaker
No. But to upgrade from Albert is not an easy task. ah you know a sense like A bander maybe is an upgrade. the Yeah. Yeah. ah You know, sure. i mean, you go get me a Martino Hada. i mean, maybe. And and even then, ah the the stats don't quite put it together. And again, I'm not a full stats guy. i really am not. But I think a lot of people do.
00:17:33
Speaker
um like to see stats. And if you put his stats compared to a Martino Hada, they're not far off. Now, when it comes to the eye test, I think this is his best season just recently because of the, the work rate, because of the defensive output, because of his progression dribbling on the ball. um I thought that there were moments that, that,
00:17:57
Speaker
ah Albert Rosnack was truly being a guy that was a a pillar of of that offense. So, With that and the the acquisition of Ferreira, who I cannot praise enough ah because of the versatility he had this season and how effective he was, I've told you, I've told a of people, I think that he's still getting better. And I think that next season you'll be even better than than this season. And you should be able to bet on that rather than having to go out there and move on from your –
00:18:32
Speaker
Biggest pieces of your salary, right? It's your 3DPs and it's Ferreira. That's your four most valuable players. And again, if this was another club, perhaps you move on from Pedro and you take a loss on that because you're not going to get...
00:18:49
Speaker
you know, much for for him and you go and replace him with another South American player of the likes of Silvetti in, in, in Miami, but that's just not in the card. So why would we even think about that? Yeah. And I, and I would say this also, if you're looking for the sound, how do the sounders get better next year?
00:19:07
Speaker
Well, the good news is that there's a lot of players who have better production. You mentioned Jesus Ferreira. It's not hard to imagine him improving on on next year. You can say, oh, well, Danny Masofsky had a career year. Can you really expect to repeat that?
00:19:22
Speaker
No, he probably can't. But you know you can expect to pick up the load? Jordan Morris. Yep. You can probably expect Osas de Rosaro to improve. ah If Pedro de la Vega picks up anywhere close to where he left off, this will probably be a better season than he had last year.
00:19:37
Speaker
Paul Areola looked like he was a man on fire before he got hurt. If he can, if if by mid season, he is playing anything close to what he was playing with at the beginning of last year.
00:19:48
Speaker
That's another area for improvement. Okay.
Roster Changes and New Signings
00:19:50
Speaker
You're going to lose. Maybe you lose Paul Rothrock. Georgie Minungu could probably pick up that production. You can go down the list and there's a lot of reasons to believe that the Sounders can get better even without having to dramatically upgrade the roster.
00:20:04
Speaker
That does not mean that we don't want to see players come in. There are, you know, ah there are about nine open roster spots right now. Some of those will be filled internally. I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone like Yusuke Nome signs yes or Peter Kingston or Antino Lopez. There's definitely some candidates for players to to come in.
00:20:26
Speaker
They're going to have to sign some goalkeepers. They're down to one goalkeeper right now. That's the most glaring area where they can add some depth. It might be Stephen Fry. might be one of them. But there are...
00:20:37
Speaker
Again, this is not to say that they can't upgrade. It's just that the need to upgrade from the external parts of the roster are not as pressing as I think some might think. And the overall message from the Sounders was be prepared for that.
00:20:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think that if there are some places where I feel like I look at what is available, I think left back is somewhere where I would like to get help in. I think that right winger, like a down the line right winger would be ah a good addition to this team. You're likely going to lose Paul Rothrock. I don't see that going any other way. You clearly lost Ryan Kent. He's obviously more of a left-sided guy. That was maybe the, just to hang on that.
00:21:20
Speaker
The one thing that they said sort of like newsy, Ryan Kent gone. Like they, they affected, I think he literally said the door is closed on Ryan Kent's return. Yep. He said that there's not going to be a role for him next year. I don't know how, how true that is. And again, that could be an indication of how highly they are under wingers. But I also, and he would never say this, of course, it was probably have to do with the salary and the compensation that then you probably would need to give him to, to, to, to keep him here. But look, it's not like I'm upset about it. I knew that he was gone. I wasn't necessarily advocating to bring him back.
00:21:58
Speaker
It was more of a Hail Mary, you know, the way he was brought in and it it didn't quite hit a touchdown. It was, It was okay. It was good. it was interesting. It was fun. Yeah, it was fun. And I think if they could have brought him back, they probably would have at a at the right price. But that's just kind of the way it went. So that's why right winger, I feel like getting a different profile right winger is somewhere where I could see them getting some help in.
00:22:24
Speaker
Because I do know that they like Koza Rianci higher as well. But he's a different profile. he's much more of a sort of a, read he's like the right-sided version of Reed. Correct. Like more of a player you bring in to sort of lock the game down a little bit as a winger.
00:22:39
Speaker
Otherwise, he can be a wingback or he can be right back. Same thing with with Reed. Reed is another player who I think has some real upside potential for next year. i think you I think there is a chance that he'll displace new who.
00:22:54
Speaker
You know, you've mentioned this before that there's a chance that new who gets moved somewhere else in the league. I don't know how likely that is. that It seems like the Sounders have tried that before and it hasn't quite come off. But I don't know. I'm not I'm not stressing, I guess, about the state of the roster.
00:23:12
Speaker
I feel genuinely pretty good about it ah Among the players who they who we we might see more minutes from next year, who do you think you're most excited about?
00:23:27
Speaker
Repeat the question again. Among the the younger players who we're likely to see more from next year, and who do you think you're most excited about? ah That's a tough question because we don't want to go chalk and go Georgie. And don't know if he qualifies as young, right? mean, I think he would. But we've already talked about We've already talked about him. It's not as much interesting to talk about him. Yeah, I think Stu Hawkins. Oh, interesting. I think Stu Hawkins simply because I feel like he is...
00:23:55
Speaker
The future of the position to a certain extent. I think that if the Sounders are going on business, you probably continue to develop and get Jackson Reagan to be this really, really good person.
00:24:13
Speaker
center back and if there's a market for him maybe you cash in on that if there's a person that can take that role on and i feel like that's too and i'm high in it because of the overall fit of the player i think he has the right mentality i think athletically he's great the the growth physically for me was a a question mark and he has fixed that i mean he's he's filled out He's filled out. He's just so much more muscular. He just he he looks like a like a center back. So when you add that with his ability on the ball, and his IQ, his um ability to put in breaking passes. I'm just excited to see him get more more minutes. You could go with that. You know, Kalani Kosarianzi, you know, he's fun, but he was fun this season. Yeah, I mean, in some ways, I almost feel like Kalani... Like, there's not a lot of untapped upside yeah this point with Kalani. He played 1,700 minutes. He had three goals. He had two assists. Is he going to... Like, he could have a very good year next year and not upgrade on what he did. Because i Alex seems to be the right back for now.
00:25:20
Speaker
So it's not very likely that Kalani is going to see a lot more playing time than he had this year. I guess the the player who... I really am intrigued by, and you've mentioned already is Danny Leyva. And it's funny to think of him as a young player, but he's 22.
00:25:38
Speaker
He's going into his eighth or ninth MLS season, which is wild to say. And he is someone who I think maybe for the first time in his career is going to start preseason with a realistic expectation of having a defined role.
00:25:59
Speaker
You can go through every, you know, hit before this year, I think his career high in minutes was the year, his first season. And that was sort of, he kind of came out of know a little bit out of nowhere. And he, this year, I think showed a maturity. He showed a flexibility.
00:26:17
Speaker
He, he was both a backup for Albert Rusnak he ably played the you know in that double pivot and You know he's in some ways You know, I don't think he's a defensive midfielder necessarily, but he could pair with Christian really effectively, I think.
00:26:37
Speaker
And I don't see any reason why if Obed gets moved, why Danny Leyva shouldn't get the first chance to soak up those minutes. And I'm really bullish on what that could look like.
00:26:50
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network, which now includes Nos Adietes, Loving Scorchers, and The Cooler Guild. Although this podcast is free, it's only made possible through our paid subscribers. Plans start as low as $30 a year and allow us to remain independent and mostly ad-free. subscribers get access to all our written and podcast content, including a full text RSS feed and a mostly ad free podcast feed that includes every show in one spot. If you really like what we're doing though, I'd encourage you to sign up at our higher tiers, which include all sorts of various perks. The most popular of those is our members only discord or the real Sounders sickos hang out. I know I've called this group, the smartest, funniest and best informed Sounders fans in the world, but it's more than the rough equivalent of a Sounders Mensa meeting. Discord is where we make things happen. Like, for real.
00:27:38
Speaker
You know the promotion the Sounders ran that offered fans the opportunity to trade in their messy jersey for a Paul Rothrock one? That originated in our community. You'll not only be the first to know about stuff, but you also have a semi-direct line to the movers and shakers at the Sounders organization. If you want to be one of the totally normal people who occupy the Sounder at Heart Discord, just become a supporter of Sounder at Heart. Anyway, thanks for listening, and go Durs.
00:28:05
Speaker
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00:29:06
Speaker
I'm excited, too. I definitely feel like I don't see him as a young player because he's been here so long, yeah so long. but But he's absolutely, you know, he fits in the young category. ah i mean, it's funny to think that, you know, 10 years ago, he would have been the same age as like rookies.
00:29:27
Speaker
Yeah. That's not really the way it works anymore. But like if you were if you had gone to college, you'd barely be coming out of college right now. Yeah, and and I feel like he's the one player that hasn't had his moment to shine, right? There was an Obed moment. There was a Josh Atencio moment. There has been, but and this sounds crazy, a Snyder moment because he does he came in and scored some goals and people were super high on him. But I don't think that people see the full potential of Danny Leva because they're not really out here. but um you know it's It's a little like a...
00:29:57
Speaker
you know, he's, we've got Danny Leyva at home kind of syndrome. Yes, true, and true, very very true, very true. There's Danny Leyva at home. There's no need to go out there and look for any other. No, 100%. So I am excited to see him taken the responsibility and see him step into that role. and And that can change a lot of the way he plays that could add on. He's always had a chip on his shoulder where, you know, it's like, when is it going to be my time? I feel like when they give him that position, he's not going to waste it. He's not going waste that chance. And between his set piece ability, I still think that he's the best passer on the team when he comes to through balls. yeah um
00:30:38
Speaker
And as he continues to develop his mid range shot, I do believe that he's going to be a guy that can fit in and maybe not play that pivot position to the level of Obed Bargaz immediately. But I think that he can grow and be very close to it in terms of just the execution of of the way they play. Yeah. I mean, there's going some, you know he's not as physical as Obed. Obed has some tools that,
00:31:06
Speaker
that Danny doesn't have, yeah you know, Obed breaks. He has escapability. I like to call it like he has ability to dribble out of trouble the way in a, probably to a better degree degree of than Danny.
00:31:16
Speaker
But Danny also is, i think a much better, like long passer. Absolutely. He's much better. He's much more likely to hit that through ball. He's much more likely to deliver. His vision is definitely there, you know, I would say at a higher level than Obed. Now, Obed's clearly the generational talent. And I've said this over and over again. Anytime that you move on from a generational talent, you're clearly not going to get exactly that. But what this team has shown us this season is that they can slide in players to play certain positions. And the effectiveness of the system allows him to be successful. And I feel like he can come in and and you won't see that big of a change on the way the team ticks on the field.
Sounders' System Adaptability
00:32:01
Speaker
Yeah, you knew it's funny. You can go back to, I want to say it was 2015 when Garth Lagoe was first here. And he was talking about how his aspiration was for the centers to try to have a plug and play system where you could lose a Clint Dempsey or an Obafemi Martins. And you're not going to necessarily replace them.
00:32:18
Speaker
perfectly but your system allows you to play through that and i think that they are finally at that point where they have players who are maybe not exact replicas of the player that they're playing behind but they allow the the collective allows them to stay at a high level and to sort of move into that and i feel like that that's Kind of what they're talking about today. You know, we asked specifically about going out and signing a U-22.
00:32:44
Speaker
And, you know, this was the sort of the one moment where Craig was, i guess I talked about this before. He almost took a victory lap of saying how, like, aren't we lucky we didn't sign someone because it worked out so well.
00:32:58
Speaker
But more than that, I think it indicated that they are not in any rush to go out and sign U-22 this summer. Now, that would seem like a prudent thing to do. they have some We know they have some cash. they They have a lot of money that they did not spend in terms of winnings last year. there is you know They got $8 million dollars from the Club World Cup. They got probably a million bucks from the League's Cup.
00:33:21
Speaker
There's cash if they wanted to tap into it. Ownership, of course, has to make that available. it does not look like they're making that available. But more than that, Craig is still kind of pounding this drum. I think it's not the most exciting thing, but I understand where he's coming from.
Debating Ambition and Success in Sounders' Strategy
00:33:37
Speaker
They aren't going to go sign a U22 just to sign a U22. They want, if they're going to sign a u twenty two they want that player to be contributing meaningfully to the front. They don't, they're not looking to bring in a project and they gave absolutely no indication that they are going to sign that player this winter.
00:33:56
Speaker
And that might sound unambitious. And ambition is a word that I have a really hard time processing without context because I feel like in so certainly in the sp sports world, in Spanish media, uses this cliché that to the point that it drives me nuts when people use it because ambition doesn't necessarily mean winning or success. All ambition means is that you're willing to swing for defenses, but just because you swing for defenses doesn't mean that you hit a homer. It means that you strike out. It means that you, you don't, you don't do your job. And sometimes it's better to get a base hit to just get on base. But
00:34:43
Speaker
that ambition can go one or two ways. It could absolutely get you closer to the objective quicker, or it could just tear you down. And the Sounders have made it a mythology, ah a way of doing business,
00:35:00
Speaker
in in Not the opposite direction, but not being ambitious, but being safe, being successful, understanding where they need to bring in players. I think that the most ambitious team I've covered since I started doing this is Inter-Miami. And what have they got to show for it? Absolutely nothing yet. They got one Leagues Cup. The Sounders just won one with a different way of doing business. So that is exactly what shows you that ambition doesn't equate to wins. Yeah, i mean, I think you can argue the Portland Timbers showed a lot of ambition. That's true. They got absolutely nothing to show for it.
00:35:36
Speaker
I think you can argue that Atlanta United was maybe the most ambitious this year. Absolutely. They had nothing to show for it. They almost won the the the wooden spoon. I think you can argue FC Cincinnati had as much ambition as anyone this year.
00:35:50
Speaker
They are in essentially the same situation that the Sounders are in. You can kind of go down the list. And yeah, Miami's in a good place right now. But they are, you know, the so we'll see.
00:36:00
Speaker
But ambition is not a guarantee any more of a guarantee of success than a sound process. And the Sounders do seem, it's not sexy, but there is a there is a sensible sensible process in place.
00:36:15
Speaker
And if you are primarily interested in winning games, and the Sounders seem to be primarily interested in winning games, It's hard to argue sort of with that process because it's it's leading to a lot of success, even if it isn't the absolute most success that any team has ever had. ah Would it be more fun if they were a little bit more ambitious? Yeah, but frankly.
00:36:37
Speaker
Sure. For us, it'd be fun. would be a lot of fun. And so I don't want to begrudge anyone for wishing that they were more outwardly ambitious than they have been. But I also think we need to sometimes pump the brakes a little bit on our frustrations and saying things like we can't compete when they very clearly are or we need to blow it up and change it and and all of this, you know, unnecessary radical opinions rather than just looking at the product and understanding that there's room for improvement. What you have is pretty good. Compare it around the league. Compare it absolutely anywhere, and and and you will see what you have available.
00:37:18
Speaker
Another thing that I wanted to say today after press conference is brian was in an excellent mood brian that was a he was in a good mood and i want to take the opportunity to say two things one he i thought it was great that he immediately came off and said this was a successful season i would absolutely agree that it was a successful season you had a successful season because of the title that you got because of the way the team performed, because coming into this season, both you and I sat in this exact same table and said, look, this team needs to be better offensively. They need to score more goals. That was achieved. You were able to bring in real players from your academy and your Tacoma Defiance team and make them not just contributors, but key pieces of this season.
00:38:08
Speaker
So to me, there's just so much more positives that 2025 left than I think people tend to see. But I am more than happy to admit when I was wrong than most.
Brian Schmetzer: Confidence and Coaching Performance
00:38:25
Speaker
And I'll sit here and admit that I was wrong when it came to Brian Smetzer. I... The season before this one had said that I thought that the tank was empty and that there was need for change before he got his extension, ah right before the playoffs that they end up ah obviously getting through farther than I thought they would and that they lose to LAFC in the Western Conference Championship. Against the Galaxy.
00:38:53
Speaker
i guess the cox is hard I've always said that there is a expiration date on coaches and how far their ability to influence the team goes. And I thought that that was, that it was done. And I thought that the team could look and and maybe move on. And, you know, I questioned whether his job was in the hot seat and I didn't really know that he could put it together again. And he did that. He,
00:39:20
Speaker
Again, this is not something he admitted because we asked him. I don't know if if he'd reinvented himself or not, but the way he coached this team this season, to me, reflected a coach that still has what's left in the tank. And I think that he could continue to be successful. You know, that is that is a good observation because I think it is something that we can easily overlook. If you look back to where he was with his job,
00:39:47
Speaker
18 months ago when they were starting slow last year and we were asking Adrian Hanauer about Brian Schmetzer's job security. Yes. and Yes. And it was an open question. And I think a lot of us who covered the team were seeing signs of like, you know, maybe exhaustion a little bit. It was maybe looking like he had maybe ah burned it Like he was, he was running out of ideas a little bit and This I've said this before, but I'll say it again. This was easily the most impressive coaching job he's ever done.
00:40:20
Speaker
ah You know, I don't think he was realistically in the running for coach of the year because they just didn't do enough in the regular season. But, you know, if they had gotten five more points this year, I think he would have been in the running for for coach of the year. Yeah, there was a point. I thought i there was a point. I did, too. like Coming out of League's Cup, I thought there was a real chance that he might win coach of the year.
00:40:42
Speaker
But, you know, he did a great job this year. i think the Sounders, the coaching staff seems to be in a really good place right now. I think the one area that they need to improve, and this is, you know, they kind of mentioned this, is that part of what makes this offseason tricky is it really does feel like the one area you need to improve is on something that you can improve with better with more attention to detail, and that's set-piece defending.
00:41:06
Speaker
If this team was a little bit better on set-piece defending, they would probably be in MLS, the the Western Conference final right I would agree. I would absolutely agree. And that you just don't blow it up because of it. Like, that's ah not a good reason to blow up the roster. You know what? That brings up a great point because i will admit that I have a really serious problem. It might be a disease, but I found myself – Over the the weekend, I had some some alone time, and and there was times where i couldn't go to sleep, and i ended up watching the 2-2 between the Galaxy and the Sounders all over again. The Colorado. I went back and looked at those games where the Sounders... yeah
00:41:48
Speaker
Gave up the the lead. and and And unfortunately, i came up with a very simplistic idea of how they can fix that. But I do think that Christian Roldan, as great as he was all season by standards of his play and his durability and his defensive effort, but either him Either Christian needs to maybe step up a lot more on that vocalness of being that leader on the field or someone else needs to help them. But there were many of times where if you pause that LA Galaxy game where they're about to throw the ball in and people are on the wrong side of the ball, there was nobody that was saying, guys, what are we doing? Get back, move.
00:42:35
Speaker
it was kind of like this mute moment where nobody was talking. And again, this might sound simplistic, but I saw the same thing against Austin. And again, this is terrible that I'm watching these games all over again, but, but he's sick no no I feel like I'm sick, but,
00:42:51
Speaker
I really do feel I can do that conclusion. I just wanted to know what it was that this team can change because, again, it's not necessarily the roster or or the talent or we see Andy Rose. How long do we see Andy Rose know practicing set pieces? He's out there like a madman, right? So.
00:43:09
Speaker
I just wanted to know what it was. And the only conclusion that I could come up with is that. It's a little bit more leadership. Little tweaks. Yeah, little tweaks to just communication. Tightening the screws a little bit. Absolutely. Somebody else helping out Christian. Yeah.
00:43:22
Speaker
That in those moments when the game is on the line, you remind everybody that 100%.
00:43:30
Speaker
alert. We just need to
Minor Improvements for Sounders' Next Level
00:43:32
Speaker
be ready. Right. So yeah, I don't know why i started out with that, but there it is. I think that's a, and I think that's in some ways what makes this a very, uh, frustrating off season to look at because i think you're right. I think the difference between where the team is now and where they could be is just tightening the screws, just kind of doing a you know doing some routine maintenance and, and things that maybe got a little bit neglected are, are areas that can be fixed.
00:44:01
Speaker
And it's not, they're not that far. They aren't like, I, that's not, it would be It would be more fun to sit here and say a lot of stuff can be like these are the obvious ways that they can get better. If they can just get a number nine, if they can just get a number 10, if they can just get a number six, whatever you want to say, that would be a lot more satisfying and a lot easier to rant and rave about. But I just don't I don't think that's the answer. I think, you know, this was Christian's first year as a first full season as ah as a six and as essentially like he's probably going to be the captain next year.
00:44:32
Speaker
And you know that's that's an area where they could they could improve, they could where he can take that that sort of more vocal leadership role, and he can he can be the guy who says, we cannot get have the we cannot have the whole team on the wrong side of the ball the way that we did against the at the end of the Galaxy game. We cannot have...
00:44:50
Speaker
numbers committed forward against Austin. we We have to close down, you know, we like little things. These are little things. ah We can't let a guy get loose on the back post when we're up a man. Yeah. Or or against New York, we can't allow Rutherford to take that free kick as quickly as he did when...
00:45:09
Speaker
New York City FC is on the attacking and pressing you as high as they are when you could just let that ball roll, allow your team to just push them back by just letting them out. There were just little moments that I do feel like are very correctable. And a lot of it does have to do in my the humble opinion.
00:45:27
Speaker
With a couple of guys on the field that are wary, that have this really high IQ, the way I know Christian does, and it's all about field awareness and awareness of where the game is at the specific moment in time. But all of that is just to add on to what you just said. I think that there is something here.
00:45:50
Speaker
we were just asked where I think this team could be next season. And I don't flinch to say that I do believe that this team has the capability to be one of the top three teams in the Western conference with what they have, with what I think that they're going to be able to add on. And,
00:46:10
Speaker
obviously the the bigger things are still to
Future Predictions and Potential Ownership Changes
00:46:14
Speaker
come, right? 2027 is going to be a huge year for the Sounders. There's expiring contracts to a guy like Albert Rusnak. There is options to a guy like Jesus Ferreira, Jordan Morris. There's a whole bunch of things that are coming up. That's when this team is going to be looking into changing a lot of things, new calendar, new way of doing business.
00:46:36
Speaker
That's when things really get convoluted and you could honestly say, hmm, maybe this year they're going to do it differently. Maybe this year you have to do a little bit more than you did before. There's just a lot of question marks going into those seasons. But as of right now, as of what we're looking at directly for next season, man, I think that there is a really good product that's there for the Sounders.
00:46:57
Speaker
Yeah, and those are 2027 questions. Correct. And I think those are big. This could have been a very different press conference if we had had anyone here that could talk about the ownership situation. Yes. But there wasn't anyone here to talk about the ownership situation. So that's something that's going to have to wait. we don't we didn't We learned literally nothing about that.
00:47:16
Speaker
So we didn't really get to get into that. And that is something else that is going to be hanging over this team most likely next offseason. Yeah. And that those will be some interesting questions. We will most likely be having a very different conversation at this point next year.
00:47:32
Speaker
But for right now, yeah this is this is how it is. and i And I don't think it's a bad place to be. like i know I am actually optimistic about how things are shaping up for next year. I think there's a very good reason to think that they can improve on the margins and see a real improvement in the standings. And I'm just excited to see the development of certain players. And again, this doesn't mean that the team can't have a bad season. I mean, there's injuries, there's a whole bunch of things, but when you truly look at what they have available, I think that's fair, but you want to talk about a
00:48:03
Speaker
pivotal season. We'll talk about it at the end of 2020 takes. That'll be a pivotal season, potentially new ownership or additional ownership. And, you know, what that's going to look like in terms of calendar. i mean, for all we know, you know, Mark Cuban is going to come grab this team and put a stadium on top of the space. needle I don't know. I'm just saying that, you know, that there there are things that you can talk about. Stadium in the cloud. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I'm just, you know, obviously there is a lot of things to look at, but in this press conference overall, I saw a coach that is confident in what he was able to build. yeah I saw a GM that is maybe wary and maybe we talk a little bit about Ovid Vargas. Cause I did press him on the Ovid Vargas situation. a that weird Yeah. It almost feels like it could be a whole episode, but yeah,
00:48:56
Speaker
Yeah, the Obed, he the the one thing he seemed frustrated by and the the one time he looked kind of like a little annoyed was when you pressed him on the Obed-Vargas situation.
00:49:07
Speaker
And he... tried to play it off like he doesn't care like he's not worried about it. Like it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal if Obed were to walk on a free, which I don't believe at all. He made it sound like there was no way that it was going to happen almost. He was just like, oh, well, I'd have to see if it happens. Well, that's why I'm asking because I don't know. Are you concerned? There is a possibility. There is a potential. And I would think that it would be catastrophic to allow a guy like Obed to walk away on a free, right? would be bad. It would But again, that's and that's ah let's a let's maybe a later episode because we don't have a lot of new we didn't get any new information other than Craig being sort of defiant about the idea that it's even a concern.
00:49:50
Speaker
Yeah.
Player Contracts and Veteran Returns
00:49:51
Speaker
And when it comes to believe actually how he feels. Right. And what what I'm hearing as well, just to add on a couple of things on what we heard, I don't know if you want to go over the list of ah those who are are walking or that did not get their option picked up. But ah it sounds like Castro is a guy that ultimately could easily come back. that When it comes to these sort of decisions, you're also allowing guys to go look for better offers, right? If you decline the offer on a guy like Jacob Castro or Leo Burnie, I think Leo maybe not so much because he he just had a hard time being on the field. So that's one that I thought that was not going to go. I think Joe Pablo's one too.
00:50:35
Speaker
monitor I do believe, and you heard Brian talk about he could potentially be back with the club at a different aspect of the game. right So I think, you know, coaching or whatever it is that could happen. um But when it comes to Jacob Castro, I think that he's a guy that, you know, just always puts you to come back. Steph and Fry, obviously. Yeah, they seem to leave the door open for Steph Fry to return. Yeah.
00:50:59
Speaker
Who else was so Ryan can't they close the door on ah the only mildly surprising player that they picked up was Kim Kihee who I guess his option must have been more reasonable than i had assumed.
00:51:11
Speaker
ah Yeah. And Sousa, they let go. Travian Sousa went on loan to the U to FC Tulsa of the USL championship. He played ah for the championship of the championship.
00:51:24
Speaker
ah They lost in in a penalty shootout, but he's not going to be back. And I would assume the door is probably he's a little on the older side for a developmental player. you didn't get any first team minutes last year.
00:51:37
Speaker
That's a tough one for him. ah Trying to think who else. No, that's about it. Yeah, obviously Paul Rothrock is going to be able to look at things. Jonathan Bell's in talks with Austin FC. um you know There have been a couple of clubs that are out there interested in him. Now it's about figuring out where best fit and compensation-wise goes. But I think that he's a player that brings a lot to the table. Yeah, I like i like Jonathan Bell. I thought he was much – I mean, for a player that got for free,
00:52:08
Speaker
Absolutely. he was great. And I would have loved to, I'm sure the Sounders have been happy to bring him back at a certain number. it just that the number that they were offering probably does not match up with the numbers that he's hoping to get.
00:52:19
Speaker
That is exactly exactly it. So J-Bell's the other one, the only other one that we haven't quite talked about that I think he's definitely out the door. And Kim's is interesting only because, you know, he's getting surgery on that anomaly, I guess you'd call it, the calf thing. And um he's a little i mean's he's a little older, right? But he's coming back on a...
00:52:43
Speaker
probably veteran veteran minimum so it is somewhere where you could be like okay i i get it it's a guy that came in this season and and worked i don't think that he he had any moments that he made me doubt why he came back uh he's a good guy on the on the training field on the group on the locker room guy i mean i've heard nothing but great things about kim from absolutely everybody in this in this club egoless Ego-less, absolutely. So when we talk about a team that drives on collective play and kind of that cemented group, yeah, I absolutely like the idea of bringing him back.
00:53:20
Speaker
Yeah.
Sounder at Heart Podcast Future Plans
00:53:21
Speaker
ah All right. Well, that's i think that's probably a good place to wrap this up. Nico, once again, thank you. I'm sure we'll be talking this offseason. I just don't want to get people's expectations that we're going to doing this on a weekly basis or anything.
00:53:32
Speaker
But we will be doing... We will have episodes. I will have episodes. I have an interview with Andrew Wisnowski. He's a ah ah sports lawyer who used to work for the league. We're going to talk about the upcoming CBA ah fight that's going to be coming up. So we'll have lots of little things like that.
00:53:47
Speaker
But this is probably the last of the... sort of regular shows. ah But Nico, this has been a blast doing this with you. ah Looking forward to talking this off season and of course doing this next year.
00:54:00
Speaker
ah People can follow you on Blue Sky at ElRoloNW. I assume are you still doing loving scorchers in the offseason? What's the plan for that? ah Yes, I think that, yes, Ari said that we're going to be doing something next week after Thanksgiving. So we're probably going to be focusing more on just the overall playoffs, to be honest, which obviously we both do do cover the the whole league. So that's going to be interesting because there are some damn good games happening there. God, I still can't believe that Miami is still in it. I've been doubting them over and over again. They keep shutting my mouth. But yeah, so we're going to be doing that. But no, I love it. Thank you, man, for doing this. I absolutely love and enjoy My favorite show to make, without a doubt, is is this one, What We Learned This Season.
00:54:44
Speaker
i I really do. i absolutely love it. I feel like it's it's it's a brand that people want hear. And that that just makes me happy. It's somewhere that we've we've never done. But I've always felt like you and I, we talk...
00:54:58
Speaker
Yeah, probably more than we should after training when we're supposed to be doing other stuff and then we never put it on wax on tape. And now we are. So I'm glad that that this is it. But yeah, definitely the last one of the year. But ah sure. And if there's anything that I could find as well ah where, you know, I will be doing some offseason stuff. I'm going be reaching out to some former players as well. nice So if we're able to do something together, that that'd be fun.
00:55:20
Speaker
Great. Well, with all that said, ah we're going to get out of here. i am Jeremiah Shan signing off for Nico Moreno. Nos Adietes, which is part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. We'll catch you next time.
00:55:59
Speaker
Let's go at Sounders.