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Sports Lawyer Andrew Visnovsky helps explain the upcoming MLS CBA negotiations
64 Plays7 minutes ago
Andrew Visnovsky formerly with MLS Player Relations joins Jeremiah to help break down some of the challenges of the upcoming CBA negotiations for this next era of Major League Soccer.
Andrew Visnovsky is Senior Counsel at Vela Wood. His practice is focused on the sports business, advising players, agents, clubs, and governing bodies on matters related to strategic regulatory advice, player and business transactions, and disputes.
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Transcript
Introduction and Will Bruin's New Role
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. Here we go.
00:00:11
Speaker
Come on. Hey, O'Shaan. Let's
Seattle Sounders' MLS Cup Triumph
00:00:15
Speaker
go. The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winners. Here comes Ruiz Diaz through the middle to crown it for Seattle.
00:00:25
Speaker
The Sounders rule the region.
CBA Negotiations: Past Overlooks
00:00:58
Speaker
what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't? Ever since I wrote a commentary that we didn't take the outcome seriously.
Sponsorship: Full Pull Wines
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
Podcast Intro and Guest Introduction
00:01:41
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adientes on the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. I am Jeremiah O'Shan and joining me today is someone I've been low wanting to get on the show for a lot of reasons, but now I feel like I have a really good one to talk about.
00:01:56
Speaker
sort of the upcoming MLS CBA and a lot of the negotiations that are going to be going on with the new calendars. Andrew Visnosky, he is a sports lawyer, used to work for the for MLS. He is about as knowledgeable as anyone who isn't currently working ah for MLS right now about these things. Welcome to the show, Andrew.
00:02:15
Speaker
How's it going? Good, good. So, ah you know, we have... You know, this is a ah fascinating time. You know, it's it's funny because the thing that got me first, one of the first things I covered when i started covering the Sounders and MLS was the 2010
Upcoming MLS CBA Changes
00:02:33
Speaker
MLS CBA. And I felt empowered to talk about it because I had just gone through my own CBA negotiations at my last newspaper job. And so I was all excited to be able to say like, no, I actually understand some of the things that are going on here. But
00:02:46
Speaker
We've now gone through, I think, four CBA negotiations since then. The league is a very different place. And this CBA... is very interesting for a lot of different reasons. And it was notable to me that when MLS announced this change, this calendar change, that it was sort of with the rather significant asterisk of, we have not agreed to a new CBA with the players yet, which I guess almost means you can't really like, it it feels like that is a pretty big asterisk about this whole thing.
Complexities in CBA Negotiations
00:03:23
Speaker
Right.
00:03:24
Speaker
ah Yeah, I mean, i think there's there's there's two sides to it. One is... the changes that they need to make for the CBA for in most part wouldn't, wouldn't amount to a lot of significant change.
00:03:42
Speaker
um But they still need to happen for them to be able to shift the CBA or shift the season, which, which we can get into more details in a bit, but um you can't just do it with the CBA as is because the CBA itself, like doesn't really,
00:04:03
Speaker
contemplate
00:04:06
Speaker
ah ah season that doesn't start in January and end in December. Right. Yeah. ah And one of the things that you pointed out to me when we were kind of going over this is that the CBA actually ends in January of 2028, which means it would be ending in the middle of the first sort of quote unquote real see new season, ah the 2728 season, which, you know, ah would be a but ah for obvious reasons is ah is a sort of nightmare scenario for these.
00:04:39
Speaker
ah You know, if like it just puts a it puts ah some real. ah like almost a gun to the head of everyone of saying like, we need to get this deal done before we get too far down. Like they're not going to want to run the, you know, run this up presumably even into 27, you know, which is not how the CBAs have been negotiated in the past, which everyone that I've been covering, you know, there were negotiations going on right up until the the moment the season was about to start and sometimes delayed the start of the season.
Mid-CBA Changes and Player Contracts
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i think, So usually what would happen when MLS does these sort of mid CBA changes, whether it be bringing in TAM, I think the U22 initiative also came in before the CBA. All those things usually wind up being negotiated with the with the MLS Players Association as sort of like a side deal. Like, yeah, we'll let you do it.
00:05:37
Speaker
Um, and then we'll incorporate, if we keep doing it into the next CBA, it'll get incorporated into the next CBA. so stuff like that and like Leagues Cup and all of that kind of, when they want to do a big change like that in the middle of the CBA, they kind of negotiate ad hoc to bring in a newer, to bring in the new player initiatives or whatever. And usually with those, it's easier because it's like, ah and MLS is like, we want to spend more money in the union. It's like, yes, please spend more money on us.
00:06:08
Speaker
um With a, with a season shift, it's a little different because it's sort of changing working conditions and, In a way that, I mean, people have posted the the difference in the season between the 2026 season with the World Cup break and this new season schedule. And they're basic it's basically the same. It's just when you want to say the season starts and when it ends, basically. right Right. And so the changes are really more about dates.
00:06:39
Speaker
Um, like when, when you can, when's the latest date you can exercise an option. When is a player, when is the semi, semi guaranteed contract, um, guaranteed date start?
00:06:51
Speaker
When is a player get, um, get a service year? At what point for them being on the roster they does it count as a service year? So all of that stuff needs to be shifted and it's not like a very significant,
00:07:04
Speaker
change or a material change, um the union will probably try to get some amount of benefit out of it. um But the fact that like they're going to do that and then have to negotiate a whole new CBA on top of that, I have a feeling that the the
00:07:28
Speaker
they're just going to do a whole new CBA, which puts more pressure on the league to get that done before July of 2027.
00:07:38
Speaker
um because if they don't, then that they're, they're in a kind of a pickle in terms of how you want to interpret the CBA and how these things count. And that turns into a fight with the union. If the union wants to kick up, kick up that dust. Right.
00:07:54
Speaker
Um, And so there are certain things that um they could probably do if they changed around the dates, but it would just be awkward and tough um for them to continue because of the language of the CBA and how it talks about specific months and specific dates and not necessarily like a certain point within a season, if that makes sense.
00:08:18
Speaker
Yeah, it it does make sense. You know, one of the things, though, that has been sort of circulating around about this about this sort of CBA ah negotiation is that, you know, back in 2020, they, you know, is it interestingly enough, the 2020 season started on a CBA that was the most.
00:08:41
Speaker
ah it seemed like that there was the easiest negotiation because the the league was sort of moving into this mode of wanting to spend more. The players got a lot of what they asked for. And then of course the rug gets pulled out from them right away where we go into the lockdown, the league enforces a force majeure and they have to renegotiate big portions of the contract and the, or the CBA and the players felt kind of collectively like they got kind of,
00:09:10
Speaker
rung out on that one. And then that sort of bled into the the fight over the Club World Cup bonuses this last summer, where even though, you know, the players felt like they had some standing to sort of demand some changes, the league was not as inclined to make those changes as they were some other changes that they had made at various times in the CBA.
Players Union Expectations
00:09:30
Speaker
And so it seems like the the players union is sort of looking at this as an opportunity to sort of maybe, you know, get a win where they, they felt like they haven't been able to get one. And I'm curious of how you feel like that might end up playing out. Is it like, what kinds of things do you imagine player, the players are going to be looking for that they maybe thought were otherwise out of the their reach in a normal situation?
00:09:55
Speaker
Um, that's ah really good question. i think it's, I think the things that players always are looking for are higher minimum salaries, higher, um, ah higher salary cap, um, and more protections for long-term contracts for employees.
00:10:18
Speaker
Um, so things like getting rid of semi-guarantee contracts, um, expanding the, um the salary cap. So it's not, there's not like these tiered right um player levels, like getting rid of getting rid of Tam and just sort of incorporating the entirety of the salary cap into one, um one like hard cap.
00:10:47
Speaker
Right. As opposed to an allocation money type of deal where you yeah you have these classes of of money that end up getting restricted on who can get get access to it.
00:10:58
Speaker
Exactly. And the the problem with that also is and this is a problem with all players unions and players associations is that you have these different stratosphere of players and each stratosphere wants something else out of, um, the CBA, right? The guys that like the Messies and the Lorenzo insignias of the world, um don't really care what's in the CBA, right? Like they're getting paid, um, nine figures, nine. No, that's too much.
00:11:31
Speaker
Um, eight figures. Um, and like, they don't need, they don't care about the pension and the relocation bonuses and the minimum salaries and stuff like that. And like some Tam guys might even be thinking, Hey, if they get rid of Tam, like that might take money out of my pocket eventually. Right. Right. So, but the vast majority of the guys that are in the union are the guys that are journeymen, not Tam.
00:12:03
Speaker
um remembering dudes kind of guys. Um, and so those guys are the ones that are really like driving the bus in terms of the union, um in a lot of ways. So I think ultimately it comes down, like they're always going to be trying to get more money and more like overall player spend.
00:12:23
Speaker
um but And then it comes down to benefits and um media revenue sharing and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, that's still all just how do we get more money into our into our pockets?
00:12:38
Speaker
Right. So the thing that players might be looking for in this case is the ah out of left field answer of more money. Right. Yeah, yeah. it's I mean – mean, and that makes sense. I mean, because they – like, charters were obviously a big deal but couple CBAs ago. Or maybe that was even the last CBA, I guess. It was the last CBA.
00:12:57
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it was in the last CBA that they – and that was the big win. And they ended – Although it was funny because they ended up getting their big ask almost for free because they, if I remember correctly, the big give was the the league was going to like double or maybe even triple the number of charters teams were allowed to fly. And then during the pandemic, they flew all charter. And then they just decided, what if we just did this
Charter Flights and League Parity
00:13:22
Speaker
from now on? And it's actually hard now to imagine a league where you're, because what's so tough about the charter situation is that it just makes scheduling so much easier.
00:13:32
Speaker
And i I would think that though that's sort of the thing that the league kind of came to understand is that, look, it costs more money, but we can we have so much more flexibility if we can get teams in and out of a market on whatever schedule we want them in and out of a market, as opposed to having to book 30 airline tickets, which is I can only imagine must have been a huge nightmare.
00:13:55
Speaker
I mean, there's people whose entire jobs it is to book the travel and the hotels for these for these teams. so um But it isn't it's so much easier to just charter the jet, for sure. um And I think that was part of that was more holding onto this idea of, like, parity and trying to make sure that, like, no team gets, like, too much of an unfair advantage. But I think everyone kind of agreed that, like...
00:14:23
Speaker
if a team doesn't want to cover the cost for charters, that's kind of on them. It's no different than like if a team wants to have a bad practice facility or not spend money on sports science staff or recovery staff or stuff like that, or scouting staff even.
00:14:39
Speaker
um It's no different in terms of the difference in parity there. And I think, I mean, during the pandemic, there were a lot of charter flights that were involved to get,
00:14:53
Speaker
players where they needed to go. um And I think you can't really put that genie back in the bottle, you know, it's really hard to be like, all right, well, Now that like we don't have to worry about a global pandemic, we're just going to start putting now that we're like starting to make money again as a professional sports league with like attendance.
00:15:12
Speaker
um We're going to so close off the tap on the charters. And I think the teams that might not really be able to like swing all of those charters. I don't know if that's true for any team anymore, but the ones that it might be a little tight for them.
00:15:26
Speaker
I think they were fine with letting the teams that had a lot of money do it. I don't think they were like, it's not just, safe I think the charters, the charter fight to me was more about um principle than actual anything. effective If that makes sense. Like it was more about like, if we, if we don't hold our ground here,
00:15:47
Speaker
then we're going to lose ground somewhere where it's more important to us. Right. mean, that sort of seemed like how free agent, the kind like how free agency became yeah a thing too, where they, it started off more as a principle.
00:16:00
Speaker
and then once they, once they allowed it to start, it became, it was very easy for them to expand what free, how to get like what free agency meant, yeah relatively speaking.
00:16:14
Speaker
Yeah. And I think, I think it's funny because MLS as of now has so many guardrails in terms of just its regular salary budget rules, um, that it needed to put in so many more guardrails onto free agency as well.
00:16:33
Speaker
Um, and I understand why, why they do it. Um, I understand like the, the, the, the justification for it and the the policy decision behind it, but,
00:16:46
Speaker
if you already have a salary cap and you're already like requiring these people to budget in a way that is like fairly reasonable, I, it's not a huge deal to then have an unrestricted free agency because it all has to fall under the cap or fit within the TAM parameters or whatever.
Challenges of Sprint Season
00:17:04
Speaker
So I don't think they're like,
00:17:07
Speaker
i think I think the fear of overspending is more affected by um domestic player rules and limits on international players than it is on free agency. Yeah. No, i would I would agree with that. ah So what are some of the – don't know. what are What are some of the areas of this of this change that you think are going to end up being – Interesting to watch. You know, we have this sprint season. i don't know if that's officially what they're calling it yet, but we have the sprint season. It's great reason for what it is. I love that. I mean, no I think it is.
00:17:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think that is a good name for it. ah I agree. But they're they're going to be doing this this kind of shortened season and then that's going to go and then that'll bleed into twenty seven, twenty eight, which is the first sort of real season here.
00:17:54
Speaker
you know you you mentioned how a lot of the calendar now, you know it's something like 84% or something of the dates that are you know being played under this new calendar are being played this season, this upcoming season.
00:18:06
Speaker
ah What do you see as the as sort of the the big challenges that maybe are not getting talked about as much as... ah you know we've We've obviously talked to death this idea of the the winter schedules, but ah you know, to the degree that that that's that we're playing in the winter.
00:18:24
Speaker
um But what anything else out there that you you feel like is is notable and that maybe hasn't gotten quite as much of attention?
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Impact of CBA Changes on Player Bonuses
00:20:48
Speaker
Other than the CBA expiring on January 31st. Right, other than the CBA expiring right in the middle of the first year. um Yeah, I mean...
00:20:58
Speaker
There's a lot of like weird things in the CBA that require certain dates. And so like this is like very... think... um i think there's a lot of like weirdness when you look at like player bonuses um and how they're structured. Right. So like sometimes a player can be like, you can have a bonus that's scored 20 goals in a season.
00:21:23
Speaker
Right. And sometimes it can be like, you are the number one you earn the golden boot. And so it might take less than 20 goals to earn the golden boot. If you are playing in a sprint season,
00:21:36
Speaker
no And so, yeah. And so a lot, and like, there's lots of bonuses that are like percentages of minutes played and, or even just total starts. And it's assuming that you're starting, it's assuming you have a full season, right? So it's like, all right, I'm going to get a bonus if I get 10 starts and you're a, you're like a mid 10,
00:22:03
Speaker
um your your mid mid rosser guy You're You're going to be getting some starts, but you're not you're not like a nailed-on everyday starter. and like So it's achievable in a regular season maybe to get like 10 starts. But in a sprint season where there's only 20 games or however little there's going to be... 14, believe. That's a lot harder to achieve those bonuses. So I think...
00:22:30
Speaker
that is going to be a big point of contention for, um, the union for this sprint season is how do we, how, how are we going to be thinking about these bonuses? And then, um, you brought it up earlier. I don't know if it was when we were talking before we, we went on or if it was while we on, but you were talking about, um, a lot of players contracts are going to be ending in December.
00:22:57
Speaker
Right. Yeah. um And so how are we, how are they going to handle those extensions? Are they going to extend, are they going to agree? And that's not some, that's really not something that the CBA can solve. I mean, it sort of can, you can kind of, you could conceivably negotiate an agreement that said any, any contracts that were negotiated before July, 2027 that end actually end June.
00:23:23
Speaker
in december actually end in june Let's say, but i don't think later you're saying I don't think the union would be cool with that. Or the I should say the Players Association would be cool with that. And I don't think i don't think um the league would be super happy with it either because it would such a pain to sort of track and manage. so and then right And on top of that, then you have to you have to start considering bonuses and when those are paid out.
00:23:53
Speaker
um You have to start considering when you're exercising options. You have to start considering, do you have to renegotiate the option years? And so you kind of have to renegotiate every single player's contract.
00:24:09
Speaker
Right. Especially for the 2027 sprint season, especially for the the twenty twenty seven like sprint season um So that at least they you either have to and likely you have to extend all of their contracts by six months, basically.
Renegotiating Player Contracts for 2027
00:24:26
Speaker
Right. And it's and it's going to be an interesting dance that they have to do, because you would imagine that there are some players who would be thrilled to just add six months to their contract. But there are probably a lot of other players who would be apoplectic.
00:24:41
Speaker
yeah over the idea that they don't get a chance to renegotiate this deal that they're getting ready to go into. And so I don't know. i don't i mean i just think that there's a there's just a lot in the details of this that are sort of getting hand, I felt like ah maybe have been hand-waved a little bit, like, well, they'll figure this out. and it's But it's going to be a real, ah a good deal of figuring. And, you know, you sort of, I think this is in our pre-show, pre-recording conversation, but one of the other things,
00:25:09
Speaker
that we've heard a lot about is the way that time off is negotiated into the CBA and that's getting totally thrown. i mean, that's in like anybody who has had a job understands that time off is pretty important. And so negotiate, yeah to negotiate to when you think that you have, you know, two months off in the off season and now you're going to have one month off in the off season or whatever it might be.
00:25:36
Speaker
Those are big changes that absolutely require, you know, a you know, negotiations. but Especially if you have one month off and you have to go play in an international tournament and in during that month off.
00:25:50
Speaker
Right. And like, yeah, you get the, you get the like month and a half, two month winter break. um But that's basically what you had in the off season anyway, but that's not in the middle of the season.
00:26:02
Speaker
And you're also presumed and presumably they're going to try to fill that with something, whether it be leagues cup or something else. But the whole, I mean, it's, it is interesting because i was thinking about this is that it really undermines the whole nature of that, that break. If you don't come back until if you're off for six weeks and then you come back into champions league. Well, one of the pitches of this new schedule is that and MLS is going better prepared for champions league. Well, if you're just coming out of a six month or six week off season, don't know how much better prepared you are going to be than if you are coming out of a two month off season, which is what it was now. So they're probably going to want to fill that time with something. So time off is absolutely getting moved around in ways that are not one to one.
00:26:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's funny because I think somebody did the math and it was like, if you make teams that make it to and MLS Cup will have a shorter offseason than the winter break.
00:27:00
Speaker
h um Which is also very funny to me. um But hey I think...
00:27:13
Speaker
Honestly, i i feel for my former colleagues in the player department um because it's going to fall on them to really manage the individual contract process for all of these players and all of their um handling of the bonuses and the administrative issues of contract extensions and stuff like that.
00:27:35
Speaker
Um, and like the front office staff of these clubs, they're all going to have to, everyone's probably going to have to negotiate six month extension for every single
Synchronizing Contracts with New Season
00:27:45
Speaker
player.
00:27:45
Speaker
And there's over, there's a thousand players. I think it's 30, there's players. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Something like 900 plus.
00:27:58
Speaker
Yeah. So you got to do that for 900 players. Right. That's, that's a huge left. Yeah. Anyway, you want to say something? It is. it is.
00:28:10
Speaker
I think that gives a lot of leverage to the union or the, I keep saying union, the Players Association. is there a technical difference between a Players Association and a union?
00:28:22
Speaker
There's not, but since there's a MLS team called the Philadelphia Union, it's co point it kind of gets' confusing. um But they been they were the MLS Players Union for a very long time, and they just recently changed it, I think two years ago.
00:28:38
Speaker
um But either either way, um given the time that the CBA expires and the massive amount of work that the league is going to have to do to get all the player contracts, all 900 player contracts in sync with that season, with that new season.
00:29:02
Speaker
um I think the players association has a lot more leverage than they have in the past to really sort of take ah take a stick to the things that they, that have kind of been their pet peeves with the, with the right with the CBA, like unrestricted free agency, um the salary cap, um player trades, stuff like that.
00:29:30
Speaker
And you see lee like the NWSL, like changing how they handle trades, changing how they handle free agency. yeah, I think the wind is blowing really positively for the players association to get, get some W's in this next negotiation for sure.
Strategic League Changes and Growth
00:29:50
Speaker
Thanks. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. ah And do you think that the, you know, you would think MLS understood sort of the Pandora's box for lack of a better term that they were sort of opening here. Do you think that indicates any degree of change? Cause it wasn't so long ago That even if all the owners didn't weren't 100% aligned on exactly what they wanted to to do, there was sort of this sense of everybody getting on board with it. And there was sort of like once they picked a direction, they were really good about sort of staying on that direction.
00:30:24
Speaker
And that's sort of how they resisted free agency for so long. ah This feels to me a little bit like there's a change going on here where there is a faction of owners and maybe folks in the league office who really felt like it was important to make this change as soon as feasible.
00:30:45
Speaker
and then dealing with the consequences and the fallout, even if it ends up costing them money because they just felt it was so important to to make the change. And it was about, you know, trying to sort of like put some gasoline on this thing as opposed to the slow and steady growth that is sort of been the guiding light for the league for, you know, the better part of 30 years.
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think the league, um there, there's a,
00:31:13
Speaker
it's but The league has this thing, and it's both a strength and a weakness, where if they don't think things are working, they change it, right? We see that with how they change the playoffs.
00:31:25
Speaker
We see that with how they change the salary cap when they bring in TAM and designated players and all that. And so they're not a league that is like beholden to tradition, if they believe that tradition um is getting in the way of their growth.
00:31:42
Speaker
um that has pluses and negatives, right? I think a big negative is that like, there's no institutional momentum towards um like, like the tradition of the playoffs and what to expect from the league season.
00:31:59
Speaker
um But I think the idea is we find that new thing and then that that's what works. And then we stick with that for a while, but we, um we try new things until we find the thing that sticks. Yeah.
00:32:11
Speaker
um And I think everybody at the league and at these clubs are very smart, very well informed, spend a lot of time thinking about these things and make very educated decision decisions on these things. um And so I think their belief when making this change all of the extra costs involved all of the headaches involved, all of the pain with the players association that might come from it will be offset by the benefit of that change and the benefits that, um, would flow through that, whether that be more fans bringing in more general soccer fans that are used to that kind of schedule, um, whether that be more money in the transfer window for selling and, um buying players, um,
00:33:05
Speaker
Or just the ability for teams to replace players when they're when they're sent out, um when they they move on. um Them being sent out at the end of the season instead of the middle of the season.
00:33:18
Speaker
And so I don't think they would make this decision if they hadn't spent a lot of time thinking about whether or not those benefits would outweigh those costs. Yeah.
00:33:30
Speaker
I don't like I'm sure they've spent a lot of money on business consultants to like give them or statistics and business analytics of what the change will do revenue wise. And um they've they've spent a lot of time like looking like looking under the hood and seeing numbers that I am not privy to and that I don't know.
Cost-Benefit Speculation of League Changes
00:33:53
Speaker
But I don't know if I agree with the idea that that those positives will happen, especially in the in the way that they would need to happen to sort of offset those costs.
00:34:08
Speaker
Um, especially on the transfer side, i don't, I don't think they're going to, I could be wrong. Um, and again, i don't have analytics. I don't have business insights. I don't, I don't have, um, I don't, I don't have any view on any of the books, but I just don't see.
00:34:26
Speaker
The only benefit that I can see is if you sell a good player, you'll be able, it'll be at the more likely be at the end of the season than the than the middle the season. Um, that's the only thing that I think.
00:34:38
Speaker
is a benefit in terms of the transfer market. um Yeah. I mean, it seems like the, I understand the appeal for sure of wanting the season to end in spring as opposed to winter.
00:34:50
Speaker
ah But I don't know if that, if any of this, I am like you where I, I, I don't know. Maybe I'm not like you. I'll just say, I, I understand the change from a ah broad perspective and I think I am largely willing to see it through. I'm like, I'm not ah doom and glooming this, but I, I do feel like there is an element of, of sort of wish like If we can just make this, like ah like looking for this magic bullet kind of theory that MLS is, like look, if we can just change the schedule, it'll change everything.
00:35:27
Speaker
And I don't know if that's really what is seeing here. And I think you know from a a lot of fans' perspective, like I think almost every market is probably seeing a fair amount of frustration over this just because change is hard of any sort,
Fan Reactions to Schedule Changes
00:35:45
Speaker
right? You can, you can sit there and you can reason with people. Like I've had, like Seattle is not a market that suddenly is going to get harder to plan. i don't think, but and there's a lot of fans that are saying like, well, I don't want to go to a bunch more games in February. And it's like, well, one or two games, but that they don't necessarily want to hear that. And, and I, and I, and I get it because it's changes hard. Yeah.
00:36:04
Speaker
yeah and i And I do wonder if if this is all going to be like, okay, so we do this and then and then what? Because I don't think this is going to, unless they're bringing in a much higher quality player, which ah itself is hard to really quantify.
00:36:25
Speaker
i don't know if this gets, like, I don't think this is going to be the thing that suddenly makes MLS more popular than than college football. you know, or whatever the next thing on the list is.
00:36:37
Speaker
I mean, the next thing on the list, I think, is probably hockey. Yeah, okay, fair. That's better one. you Now we're going really head-to-head. If we were even close to... I think every single and MLS owner would be ecstatic.
00:36:51
Speaker
and think that would be far beyond their wireless dreams. Yeah, you're right. great But, like, I think... I think when, and and look, i I was like all of those like ownership, like big decision-making conversations were far, far, far above my head when I was working the league.
00:37:09
Speaker
But I think the reason why these decisions happen is because owners are looking at the performance of their teams and their revenues.
00:37:20
Speaker
And they are looking at the business insights that the league is giving them about the popularity of the sport in general in this country. And they're like, they're trying to figure out what the disconnect is, right?
MLS and US Soccer Popularity Gap
00:37:33
Speaker
Like why is, why is professional soccer like a top three sport in the United States?
00:37:44
Speaker
but Major League Soccer probably isn't is like isn't even in the top three professional leagues in terms of fans in the United States. um I mean, I think it's probably Premier League, the Yamakis, and then maybe MLS, but it could be another European League. Right.
00:38:05
Speaker
don't know. Certainly if you put if you consider Champions League a separate entity, I would think Champions League is above it. No question. And so I think owners are looking at that information, seeing that disconnect and try and like trying to figure out how to bridge that gap.
00:38:23
Speaker
And so that's why they are. And then they're also trying to maximize revenue, right? Like the best of three playoff series is because they want to give teams more home playoff games and guarantee teams home playoff games. And that is a huge source of revenue
Playoff Structure and Revenue
00:38:38
Speaker
for those teams. Yeah.
00:38:39
Speaker
m Um, but I think that's, they're, they're seeing the information about how popular the sport is and how much the sport is growing and seeing that there's a disconnect with the growth of the league and trying to figure out what the answer is to that disconnect.
00:38:55
Speaker
And so if somebody has a, has an idea that maybe it's, I mean, maybe it is because we don't, so we don't start our league in September or August, or I guess it's going to be July.
00:39:09
Speaker
um maybe Maybe if we do, more people will watch the league. Let's try it. yeah And let's, and I assume, and I hope that when they're having these conversations, they are talking to business analysts and sports analysts and people that have those answers and they're being fed the right answers in terms of, yeah, we'll make the change. um But sitting, sitting on the sidelines and
00:39:42
Speaker
knowing what little I know about the industry and the sport and being a fan of the sport, I, I kind of find it hard to believe that the issue is that we don't start our league in September or August or July.
00:39:58
Speaker
Right. You put
Scheduling Playoffs Amidst Challenges
00:39:59
Speaker
it that way. And it, and it feels, you know, like it feels like a, ah so like ah the, the argument might have some holes in it. Like if only the season started,
00:40:09
Speaker
I mean, i guess there's, I mean, and I guess it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out because part of it might be like, if they have to play through international breaks still, that's going to undermine one of the big talking points. Right.
00:40:21
Speaker
well And to be completely honest, having, having to do the playoffs during those fall international breaks really hurts the momentum of absolutely the most, the most important part of the season for these teams. Yeah.
00:40:34
Speaker
It takes the focus oh away from the teams. It pushes the focus around. And you're also doing that during the time when you have two of the most popular leagues in the country playing.
00:40:50
Speaker
h um So i get wanting to get your playoffs out of out of that, like awful window. um I thought they had a good solution where they did a single elimination between the two windows and then had MLS cup after you're good to last. They also want and need more revenue for playoff games at the gate. So they need to have more playoff games.
00:41:16
Speaker
And so if you're going to do that, you're going to deal with the momentum killer of the international break. So that in and of itself might be worth it to move it to, um, move it to may.
00:41:28
Speaker
yeah, I don't like, i think that's a perfectly reasonable justification to be honest. Um, but then does that offset the cost, all the costs of moving it and all of the, like the negotiation leverage you lose with the union and the, um, the, how you're going to handle all these player contracts and bonuses and everything.
00:41:54
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, if you keep the calendar like this forever, probably over time, it'll accrue and it'll grow. Um, but it's,
00:42:05
Speaker
there's a lot there's ah There's a lot under the hood that needs to happen now. And i don't know how I don't know how it happens outside of getting a CBA negotiated and fully figured out before July 2027. don't i don't know how i don't know how they do it otherwise.
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's going to be, yeah. I mean, this is clearly going to be a big, big story and something that is going to be fascinating to watch. i if If nothing else, it'll give us lots of content to discuss.
00:42:44
Speaker
yeah But Andrew, thank you again for, for coming on. i think we have, we've dealt with what we can dealt deal with at this point. I'm sure we we'll be talking again at some point. I would love to catch up with you when we know more, but. Uh, where can people follow you? Uh, yeah.
00:43:01
Speaker
How can people kind of keep on all of the social media things? Um, my handle on Instagram blue sky is a, at soccer lawyer. Um, my me on Twitter, uh, at my name, Andrew Viznovsky. Um, and yeah, that's, that's the best way to do it.
00:43:19
Speaker
Awesome. Well, thank you for doing this, Andrew. of course. can Get out of here. I'm Jeremiah Oshan. This Nos Adietes, part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network, and we'll catch you next time.
00:44:00
Speaker
Let's go at Sounders.