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USMNT roster decisions, Pochettino and Cristian Roldan discussion with Adam Belz of Scuffed
2.3k Plays3 days ago
Adam Belz of The Scuffed Podcast joins Jeremiah to discuss the recent USMNT World Cup draw. They also dug into roster decisions leading up to the World Cup and of course, Cristian Roldan’s place on the roster. To round the conversation out the two conversed about whether or not Mauricio Pochettino is exactly the right coach for the USMNT for all the reasons no one really expected.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Host
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. Here we go.
00:00:11
Speaker
Come on. Hey, O'Shaan. Let's go. The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winners. Here comes Ruiz Diaz through the middle to crown it for Seattle.
00:00:25
Speaker
The Sounders rule the region.
Player Selection and Sponsorship Insights
00:00:58
Speaker
what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't? Ever since I wrote a commentary that we didn't take the outcome seriously.
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
Guest Introduction and Podcast Inspirations
00:01:42
Speaker
back to another episode of Nos Adiates on the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. I am Jeremiah Oshan. Joining me today, ah ah one of my favorite, honestly, people who I listen to, who I i don't i didn't tell them I was going to say this, but I think I've said it before. Honestly, a inspiration to me to take Sounder at Heart independent.
00:02:03
Speaker
ah Adam Bells, the host of the Scuffed podcast, a U.S. national team podcast that I personally listen to almost every single week. And welcome back to the show, Adam.
00:02:15
Speaker
Honored, Jeremiah, in so many ways by that intro, by your allowing me to grace your podcast.
US National Team and Seattle Connection
00:02:21
Speaker
Thanks for having me. Yes, yes. ah So I it's it is a I can't say it's surreal because I this is not the first time this has happened to me, but I was literally listening to scuffed. But right before we started recording, I listened to your guys call in show after the draw.
00:02:39
Speaker
Of course, the main reason I want to have you on is to talk about the U.S. national team draw in the World Cup. and sort of like how that connects with Seattle specifically. And I i like guess I'll just start there. It seemed like if i if I was picking up what you guys were laying down in your call-in show in the immediate aftermath of the draw, there seems to be like a genuine excitement about not just the draw, but about scuffed folks coming to Seattle for the game on the 19th and potentially for the round of 16 against Belgium. Now, that would be just a whole other level. Oh, man.
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah. We're not supposed to talk about that. We're not supposed to i know i i got that look ahead. Right. Right. We can only talk about Paraguay. well Yeah. No other northern nations which shall be mentioned. No, yeah we we're going to come to Seattle. I think that's pretty clear now. ah Vince and me and Sanjay.
00:03:33
Speaker
And ah we're going to try to throw a party there, hopefully in conjunction with you. Yeah. We'll how on that goes. Yeah. Easy yes for me when that when you when that came up. i am I would have been happy just to come as ah as a guest, but to to possibly help throw this thing, I am 100% on board with that. Awesome. People should be looking for that information.
Seattle Weather and World Cup Excitement
00:03:57
Speaker
LA just seems complicated you know and siry in a lot of ways. and see I've actually never been to Seattle. Shame on me. You're coming at the right time.
00:04:09
Speaker
Of course, what's going to end up happening is it's going to be raining and gloomy because that is not out of the question in June. yeah i don't mind the rain. I don't mind it. Perfect. It's beautiful, right? When it rains and see oh my god when it in God. Especially in June. ah Like right now, you know, we're in the middle of what they call an atmospheric river right now. So we have like just streams of of rain coming in. It's not literally raining right now, but like it gets so like this time of year, there's, you know, wet leaves everywhere. Yeah.
00:04:41
Speaker
It's like if you if you looked at it from a satellite, there's like a ribbon of white over Seattle. Yeah, exactly. that's how and things Like over the Amazon River? Exactly. That's how it it can be like right now. Although, weirdly, Seattle is every now and then gets caught in what they call a rain shadow. And it's like...
00:05:00
Speaker
there's literally flooding going all around Seattle right now. And in Seattle, it's actually been not that bad, but because of all the rain and because of the, the foliage, the leaves coming down, there's, it's kind of messy and all that kind of stuff, but you get to June and everything is green and lush and it's beautiful. And so when it rains in June, it's actually kind of like magical. So I will not, I, that it could be, it would be very, it would be a fun juxtaposition if we have sort of like a nice light rain here and it's,
00:05:30
Speaker
100 degrees and sweltering in Kansas City. Oh, yeah. I mean, everybody will everybody'll be welcoming the rain in that context for sure. Yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait for that. That's the game against Australia.
00:05:43
Speaker
June nineteenth right? Yeah, noon on Friday. Yeah, which I don't know. People were kind of worked up about some of these kickoff times. We have a lot of noon kickoff times in Seattle.
00:05:55
Speaker
I don't mind that at all. I think it's even when the Club World Cup, like we also had a bunch of early, you know, midday, ah you know, businessman special type of kickoffs during the Club World Cup. And I was saying, look, if you give people months of advance notice,
00:06:11
Speaker
That should not impact whether or not – I mean it's definitely not going to impact of attendance. This is going to be a sellout. It will be boisterous. It will be amazing. But even on TV, noon on Friday, I don't think that's going to be a problem. I think people are going to be tuning in for this stuff.
00:06:24
Speaker
It almost makes it more fun when World game is happening during the day. Yeah. I still remember like 2010 going to like ah going into bars for breakfast. oh Is there anything better?
00:06:35
Speaker
No, it was great. 2010, I do think, you know, that's a good, maybe a good segue into this.
Reflecting on Past World Cups
00:06:41
Speaker
2010, I think, is when a lot of, I keep hearing soccer fans mentioning 2010, at least of a certain age, people closer to our age, certainly, saying that was when they got hooked, was 2010 and that sort of magical U.S. run.
00:06:57
Speaker
And it wasn't, I guess in context, it wasn't that magical. I think they went out in the round of 16, but they, ah they had a bunch of dramatic games. They had, it was, it was, there was just ah ah an energy around that team. There was some, you know, I think that was the first time that social media played a big part in the,
00:07:18
Speaker
sort of the proliferation, like everyone was taking their cameras out and filming the celebrations and doing all this kind of stuff. And there was always viral moments. And 2010 really seems like that's when the sort of the modern state of the American fan kicks off.
00:07:34
Speaker
Is that, is that fair to say? And this seems to be like the next opportunity to really, there hasn't really been like a leveling up opportunity since then. And this feels like it could be that.
00:07:44
Speaker
There was that, you know, I feel like when you're watching a world cup game, when the, when the moment comes, everybody is in it together, hoping for catharsis. Right. Like that is the, there is, that is, there's your, you're hoping for the climax, not to get too sexual, but like that moment. And, um,
00:08:04
Speaker
and um And 2010 provided that, right? mean, you had the catharsis of the John Brooks winner, game winner. And then, of course, the the game winner against Algeria.
00:08:18
Speaker
The John book that was 2014 actually. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, that's terrible. Yeah. that's okay. That was great though. Yeah. So, so, so yeah. 2010 was Clint Dempsey. about bookss Yeah. The real one is, is Landon Donovan's goal against Algeria. That's, that's, that's where like everything's on the line and we've, and we got what we wanted, you know, like in the late stages of the game.
00:08:42
Speaker
So that, I don't know, somehow that makes it, that I think that makes it more powerful. In 2006, do you remember in 2006 that goal that Dempsey scored? oh I remember exactly where it was.
00:08:54
Speaker
It was, I mean, that is such a satisfying goal. The one where he just puts his laces through it and screams and runs over to the corner flag. um People don't always remember that it was 2-0. They were losing 2-0 at the time and they lost that game 2-1 and they were eliminated from the World Cup in that game by Ghana.
00:09:11
Speaker
But that moment lived on as sort of a magical moment because of Clint's reaction and because of the pureness of the goal. And it was just this amazing moment that even though 2006 was ultimately a failure of a, like they got grouped 2006, but there were still moments in that, in that tournament, like,
00:09:33
Speaker
ah the the the grinding out the tie against Italy and the, and certainly that goal against Ghana were these sort of magical moments that set up 2010, I think.
The Role of Social Media in Soccer Fandom
00:09:45
Speaker
Yeah. I just think, right. And I just, I just think even though that moment was a moment of the Dempsey goal against Ghana was the one in 2006 was a moment of discreet catharsis. It wasn't the big picture catharsis that you get when you advance from the group, thanks to this goal from Donovan, even though it was kind of a scrappy goal, you know?
00:10:06
Speaker
So I, I, yeah, I, I think 2010 looms large.
00:10:10
Speaker
looms large Yeah. Largely yeah because of that moment. Largely because of that moment. I totally agree. Yeah. I think that that moment in that and the call and it was just like this perfect kind of setup. And again, I think that the newness of, it was sort of like, it was still sort of new that people were falling in love with the idea of having cell phones everywhere they went and filming all these interactions. And the again, I think the thing that made 2010 so powerful was
World Cup Group Dynamics and Challenges
00:10:40
Speaker
that there was just this proliferation of videos everywhere, of reactions in Kansas City, of reactions in Seattle, and reactions in Chicago. i i I feel like at Soccer House or in Chicago, there was this huge public watch party,
00:10:55
Speaker
maybe not at soccer house, but in, in like a big park in Chicago where, you know, tens of thousands of American fans. And it was the first time where American fans, where we saw these images that we were used to only connecting to European clubs or European nations. And it was like, Oh, this can happen here in the United States.
00:11:15
Speaker
And, and this feels like it could be that on steroids potentially. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, those limbs flying everywhere in the yeah and bars across America. that's a I mean, there's a really good compilation of that on YouTube that if you want to find a little joy for yourself, go look it up and watch it because it's it doesn't miss, as they say. It doesn't miss.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah. ah So. All right. So one of the the recurring themes that we picked up pretty clearly from the presser of Pochettino's presser and and sort of from the players and you guys talked a lot about was this idea of not getting ahead of ourselves.
00:11:57
Speaker
But let's be honest. that's ah That's a player and coach problem. That's not a fan. Like, we should – why shouldn't we embrace getting ahead of ourselves? Why shouldn't we – you know, like I realize the players got to stay grounded. They got to be focused on Paraguay and they got to be focused on getting out of the group. And they can say, look, we just want to finish top half of the group, which I – yeah That can't be the goal.
00:12:20
Speaker
No. cool Like this, we should like, this would be like, it's our job. I think to get everyone excited about what this could be. Right.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah, i um'm I kind of bounce back and forth on this because, of course, we're going to map out what the what it what happens if we're the winner of our group, what happens if we're the runner-up, who we might face in the round of 16 under each scenario.
00:12:46
Speaker
um And it does matter. We do want to win the group. I think it matters a lot. It's it's a difference of ah playing Belgium in the round of 16 likely or playing Argentina in the round of 16. It's a big difference. Yeah.
00:12:59
Speaker
Yeah, there's a big difference there. I, am yeah, I mean, I want to dream. I mean, what's that's the whole point of this is right dreaming and thinking big and believing that the impossible can happen.
00:13:15
Speaker
I do think I had, I was talking to somebody on the phone this morning, a coach in Florida. And he was like, he was kind of mad at all the podcasts for being too dreamy. He was like, man,
World Cup Ticketing and Fan Access
00:13:24
Speaker
Paraguay, Paraguay and Australia, they both just lost to us. They're going to want another piece of us.
00:13:30
Speaker
If we don't come correct in those games, we are going to get, uh, we cannot, we cannot sleep on those opponents. So, you know, I mean, I, I see, ah I see it from all angles. I mean, sure. I, I, and I, I deal with this a lot.
00:13:44
Speaker
Uh, In Sanders fandom, too, where we people get frustrated at us for talking about the big picture. But look, it's the coaching staff's job to make sure that the players are not looking past Paraguay.
00:14:02
Speaker
It's like the coaching staff's job to prepare them. We can't do that. it's not we're not doing I don't think we're doing anyone a service by acting like... this is not a manageable group.
00:14:13
Speaker
If we are sitting here saying expectations are that we beat Paraguay and we don't, then we don't talk about anything beyond that, that we're not doing our jobs as like, our job is to, so is to create the narrative and to create the hype and to get this and not to be, and and not to be,
00:14:30
Speaker
silly about it, but I do think that, you know, like let's we can talk about the group a little bit. What I find really, and I think this was maybe Vince's point, one of your co-hosts point about this, which is look,
00:14:43
Speaker
Yes, every one of these teams is capable of beating the U.S. Australia. Very capable. Very capable. They're actually all pretty even, you know and and almost no matter who comes out of that UEFA qualifying group, ah which, by the way, until this weekend, I had never heard the term Turkey i but Now I feel like I guess that's the what we're that's what we're saying. I realize it's since 2022, that's how they have said that's this pronounced. get scolded every time I say Turkey. I'm like, who do who you think you are?
00:15:10
Speaker
William Bradford? Yeah. That's the i that's I got to say that's just been a kind of it's like cutter and ah like it's always been cutter, I guess.
00:15:21
Speaker
But we had if we said Qatar, we were awful. ah Anytime I hear what cutter, I think of George W. Bush cutter. Right. Exactly. But that's apparently that's anyway. we're ah I just thought that was an interesting thing that I caught my attention. I didn't like everyone was saying Turkey a this week and I had never once heard that.
00:15:42
Speaker
I heard the the country's name pronounced that way. You got to tip your cap to Erdogan's propaganda machine, you know? Absolutely. Absolutely. But that's one of the countries that we could. But the the other ones that could come out of that group are what? Northern Ireland, Wales. No, no are i no. Am I confused? It's Slovakia, Kosovo, and Romania.
00:16:05
Speaker
Oh, I'm talking about, so I got confused. Those are the countries that could come to the United States. I mean, come to Seattle. Thank you. Oh, I see. I see. I see. I got totally confused. I keep getting those two groups messed up because those are the only two groups I know. And so I keep flip-flopping which one is which. But, ah okay, so it's Kosovo. Are you going to go bunch of games?
00:16:24
Speaker
I'm not...
Player Dynamics and Team Preparation
00:16:26
Speaker
No, I don't... If I go to a game as a fan, it will be ah because I fell into some cheap tickets. The tickets are...
00:16:36
Speaker
ah what like I have not had an opportunity to buy tickets because I've not gotten I've not won any of the ah the lotteries so far but I honestly the prices are so expensive that I do not know that I will be able to justify going to any of these games unless ti it unless the prices come down or I happen to fall into tickets I will try to cover maybe a couple games but I'm i'm not even i'm not're I'm still formulating how I want to approach this okay but okay Like these two, I can't, I'm honestly blown away at how expensive the tickets are. And I say this as someone thousand bucks, right? Like a thousand It's crazy. Plus. Yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker
Yeah. It's totally crazy. Uh, I've never, it's, it's wild. Uh, but, uh, anyway, I, I do feel like it's important for me to know the games that are going on here, but so it's Kosovo, Slovakia and who's the other one.
00:17:28
Speaker
Romania. And Vince keeps telling me Slovakia is you could could give ah Turkey a some some trouble. And Slovakia, it's funny because I always think of Slovakia as the S in ah in easy ah from the famous i English headline where Yanks were the Y in the group of England's group in 2010. But that was Slovenia.
00:17:58
Speaker
Oh, that was Slovenia. Yeah. Look at me. Slovakia is where Albert Rusnak played, I guess. See, I get those two confused all the time, too. it I mean, they're easy to confuse.
00:18:09
Speaker
But slovenia Slovenia is like over by Italy. and Okay. And the Balkans. And then Slovakia is like, you know, over like closer to.
00:18:22
Speaker
Ukraine, maybe, I think. Okay. Yeah. But what's interesting about this – and I don't know. I haven't looked too deeply into all four of the teams coming out of the the playoff group. But I did notice that the group that the U.S. s is in is rated by ELO rankings, I believe, or maybe it was by FIFA rankings either way, as one of like the two hardest groups in – two or three hardest groups of the 12 – Not because there is any one outlier that is bringing that average up, but because they're all like in the mid-20s to mid-30s ranking-wise, right?
00:18:55
Speaker
Right. It's the second, if you add up all the rankings, ah it's the second lowest group ranking by the FIFA rankings overall. I think the ELO ratings tell a little different story. I'd have to...
00:19:10
Speaker
I'd have to do some math on that. But but the point is that this is these teams are all relatively evenly matched. But in some ways, I feel like that's a good thing for... Because if the U.S. wins this group, it won't be well. They got out of it the easiest group. It will be because they...
00:19:25
Speaker
they beat some decent teams and there's going to be some, you know, every one of these games has the potential to be competitive and exciting and interesting and compelling. ah You know, Australia is probably in, in some ways has just like a lot of ready-made storylines where you're, you're going to have a bunch of players probably that, that play in MLS. And so you're going to have sort of like, like Australia and the United States seem like they are always sort of very similar power or, you know, strength wise. And,
00:19:55
Speaker
Baraguay obviously has connections as well. And, you know, we can kind of go down this list. and it's and and And what's fascinating is that the U.S. won't be overwhelming favorites against any of these teams, but they should be favorites against all of them.
00:20:09
Speaker
ah Maybe not Turkey, right? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what i don't know odds maybe what the odds makers are saying. But, yeah, I think you're right. It's it's ah it's a relatively evenly matched group. I think that also...
00:20:22
Speaker
raises
Importance of a Strong Start for the US Team
00:20:23
Speaker
the prospect of chaos, you know, in the group where like if, say if it was like us and then Argentina and then two teams that were, you know, really are expected to beat.
00:20:35
Speaker
you know, say like, i don't know, Haiti and, you know, Curacao, we're not going to play them because they're concaf teams. But anyway, just like say, it's say the group is broken down that way. Two really weak teams, us and a strong, very strong team, that strong team, we can expect them to not drop any points against those other two teams. So it sort of like cleans out,
00:20:55
Speaker
the bottom of the group and then we you know and we get we get four points we can win or something something like that or four points to get out of the group i feel like with our group currently anything can happen in any of these games so there is a possibility of chaos yeah uh which seems like it could be i don't know i feel like that's that's all good for narrative reasons like could be a lot of fun yeah mean I hope it's a lot of fun. I think it's going to be it could be stressful. It also could be really stressful, i guess. Yeah.
00:21:28
Speaker
I mean, you gotta to be, we gotta win that first game. I think, I think we should, we need to, we need to make our mark on June 12th, get three points and it's not going to be easy. I don't think.
00:21:43
Speaker
No, I don't think it's going to be easy either. How much do you take away, though, from the other thing that's interesting about, but let's assume it's Turkey that's playing in this game, that are in this that that advances out just for the clint cleanliness of the narrative.
00:21:58
Speaker
The U.S. has played all three of these teams in the the last year. They have beaten, did they did they they lost, ah or they tied Turkey, is that right? Tied Turkey, turkey yeah, yeah and and beat Australia and Paraguay, both 2-1.
00:22:13
Speaker
Right. This fall. And it seemed like we were quite a bit stronger than Australia. Yeah. And the Paraguay game was pretty... it was a good game. It was pretty even, though. It's like we blew them out of the water or anything.
00:22:31
Speaker
Does that... Do you think that helps, though, in terms of setting... expectations or whatnot that the U S has played these teams so recently, which I'm sure has never happened before that they've played all the group stage opponents recently.
00:22:47
Speaker
I don't, don't know. I've, I've made the point on our podcast that the team we played Paraguay with is far from our first choice team. Sure.
00:22:58
Speaker
And we still beat them two to one. And so they, they, they may want to get another piece of us, And we'll be, and we'll relish the chance to do that at the world cup, but they're going to be getting something different than who they faced in the fall.
00:23:12
Speaker
Cause Christian Pulisic wasn't there. Uh, Weston McKinney wasn't there. Tim way. I wasn't there. Who else wasn't there? Um, I don't think, yeah, Chris Richards wasn't there. was going to say Richards.
00:23:24
Speaker
And Jedi Robinson wasn't there. Who knows if he will be there in the summer. We'll see, i guess. And there's at least one other kind of important player who wasn't there. Josh Sargent wasn't there.
00:23:36
Speaker
fact
00:23:39
Speaker
i is that that was i hope you appreciated. don't know how many listeners will appreciate that one, but I hope you did. I did. i very i really did. Yeah, he's... Man, he he came into that camp in September.
00:23:54
Speaker
Was it September? And didn't play very well. And then didn't score a goal all fall for North City either. Yeah. something Something must have snapped for him. he did He did just score over the weekend.
00:24:07
Speaker
But nobody's tracking him anymore. He's he's out of the pride. I mean, is he... He has to have had, not to get, I don't want to turn this into a Josh Sargent thing, but he has, of all the players who we thought were um like core members, we were expecting to be core members of this team in 2022. He seemed to be, like his fall from that point has to have been the most stark, right?
00:24:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, did people see him as a core member of the team then? i sort of i saw a potential. Well, I think that they were he was relatively young. he it felt like there was a lot of, like people expected him to be Yeah, the way I remember it, he played very well at the World Cup too. Didn't score any goals, but he played well. right And, you know, you can't just keep coming into national team camps and kind of not doing anything, you know, when you're the striker.
00:25:02
Speaker
So yeah. Right. Yeah. And I, buddy, right. and I suppose that's a good, I'll use this as a, as a nice transition into one of all the players that were in 2022, who we thought for sure, for sure would not be part of 20, of 2026.
Team Culture and Coaching Impact
00:25:21
Speaker
Christian rolled on had to be like the least likely of all the rostered players from 20. I think he was one of two players that didn't play in that tournament. Is that right?
00:25:32
Speaker
e Yeah, did Scali also not play? Or did he play? I can't remember. But different ends of the spectrum in terms of what the XB... Like, Roldan, this was sort of like his...
00:25:43
Speaker
his chant. I mean, people didn't think he really want should have been on the 2022 team. And then even as recently as, i don't know, four months ago, i it didn't seem like his, it was in the cards for him to get into the national team. I remember texting you after at one point, and it, I think you laughed. I think I heard laughter in the, in the response. Uh, but,
00:26:08
Speaker
Christian, all of a sudden, I don't know if he's a lock for the for the roster, but he looks like I don't think anyone at this point would even be surprised if he was starting games at the World Cup this next this next tournament.
00:26:21
Speaker
ah Whether or not they think he should be, it just wouldn't be that surprising given his status in the the way the coaching staff seems to scene see him. Yeah. I mean, it's, I'd certainly be, so I think I can say I'd be surprised if he doesn't make the roster now. Yeah. um For the World Cup.
00:26:38
Speaker
It's just, any laughter about Roldan for me is kind of inseparable from, i mean, it's just sort of like an example of how modern digital life sort of affects you in ways you, we could never have a guest 15 years ago, but there's a guy in our discord server for our podcast who loves Christian Roldan and loves sure it's MCB who is that's also in our discord.
00:27:04
Speaker
Oh, okay. All right. so you So some of your listeners will know MCB. And he wrote a... um He wrote... Maybe he's shared it on near your Discord, too. He wrote a manifesto about Christian Roldan because he he he could not accept ah all the all the hate he was getting from USMNT fans. All the shit he was getting. I don't know I've seen this. he watched a lot of games. He looked at a lot of stats and he wrote up something. And people on the Discord call it the Roldanifesto.
00:27:33
Speaker
Uh-huh. And... and um So anytime Roldan comes up, I just immediately think of my digital friend MCB anna and that manifesto he wrote. But yeah, ah so so enough about that.
00:27:48
Speaker
I think it's really cool that Roldan is back in the in the program because of what maybe it illustrates about Poch, know? Like, I think we all agree Christian Roldan is a man of great character and, like, just a decent human being who takes care of his business.
00:28:08
Speaker
And um Potch likes that stuff a lot. You know, he's... Roldan's also good at soccer, but he really likes the intangible stuff a lot. And um it's hard to imagine him getting into the back into the in the program under...
00:28:27
Speaker
Berhalter or um um say Jesse Marsh was the coach or, you know, it kind of it kind of takes like this big personality from Argentina to come in and say, you know what?
00:28:43
Speaker
I want to see some more Christian Roldan. Yeah. And I, I think that he is a good illustration of this and you guys talked about it a bit, but it, you know Under previous coaches, you know let's just say a Bob Bradley, to to use an example, if they were saying stuff like it's not about the quality of the player, it's it's not about getting the best players, it's getting the right players, which i you know you guys talked a lot about this.
00:29:08
Speaker
ah and And sort of that it's not always about assembling the roster of the 26 most talented Americans and putting them out there. and And it's about, you know, you got to have some of that. You have to have some of your best talent.
00:29:21
Speaker
But in order to get the most out of that talent, you may have to have players who work together and will understand the collective goal and that, you know, Christian is sort of a really good illustration of a player who says and means it. And I think this is the difference is that a lot of players will say this stuff, but you really get the sense that Christian means it when he says, look, if I can't,
00:29:42
Speaker
help the team on the field, my job is to be the absolute best practice player that we have, like to raise everyone's level, to push every player, to make sure that they are giving, that they're doing everything possible to keep me from getting onto the field.
00:29:58
Speaker
And that's, and that he accepts that, that role. And, and it almost takes a player like, or a coach like Pochettino to say, to have the, the gravitas to be able to say, that's exactly what we need more Christian ruled ons. We need, and and I'm going to not, and I'm not just going to say that I'm actually going to put them on the team and I'm not going to just put them on the team. I'm going to put them on the field. I'm not going to just going them on the field I'm going to start him.
00:30:22
Speaker
And then when he has two assists against Australia, you go, see, this is what I'm talking about. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, totally. Um,
00:30:36
Speaker
I didn't really ask you a question. I apologize. that's No, but I had efforts i had something i was going to say. I forgot what it was though. ah Yeah. Oh yeah. To that point, Potch, Potch has said like explicitly, he's looking, he's watching the players to see how they behave when they know they're not going to play.
00:30:57
Speaker
That is a really important thing for him. um And i mean, that's basically what you just said. Like Roldan says, if i'm If I'm not going to play, then my job is to be the best practice player there is. That is like, that's just music Mauricio Pochettino's ears. and um And, you know, it should be. It makes all the sense in the world, right? like Yeah. and You need players who can accept, who can put the team ahead of themselves, who can accept a role that isn't glamorous.
00:31:31
Speaker
You need all that. You know, and I wonder when he got hired, you know, his hiring was unlike any previous U.S. national team hire. He was a player. he was like a coach who the the team effectively almost literally broke the budget in order to sign. Like they brought they explicitly ah brought in money from outside the organization.
00:31:55
Speaker
to pay for them. And the idea being that we need a real ah quote unquote, real coach. Like we can't, we can't just elevate some assistant. We can't just go to end MLS and hire the best and MLS coach. We can't, you know, we, we, we've done all these other things and they haven't really worked. We need to go get the guy.
00:32:15
Speaker
But do you think this is what folks really hadn't much like, do you, like it is funny. It is, there is an irony that the coach who, we brought in to sort of make the hard decisions and be like kind of the big time coach is ending up with Christian Roldan, you know, ah as potentially a starting player and, and sort of like there, there does seem to be an irony there that here, you know, this is the guy who, if, if Greg Berhalter were making all the same personnel choices, there would be a very different mood around the team, I think.
00:32:49
Speaker
Oh, for sure. Yeah. There's a lot of irony in that. um We can agree. I just don't, I just don't think Potch, um, yeah, he doesn't care what anybody thinks, which helps a lot.
00:33:03
Speaker
And, um, I, I would put myself in the category of people who thought we, if we get an elite coach, they're going to come in they're going they're going pick all the players that I like the best and he's going arrange them in the right way.
00:33:18
Speaker
And we're going to, you know, win a couple more games than we usually do at a world cup. And, um, And it it is it is striking that he's called up so many MLS players. He's continued to call up those players. And he seems to genuinely prioritize a lot of this intangible stuff that we don't really i mean we don't really know about. you know right We don't know exactly what ro went went wrong in March.
00:33:47
Speaker
It could have just been a generally bad attitude from everybody or so sort of a lazy attitude. Or just not the attitude that he wanted. Yeah. It could have been something more serious. Who knows? But, but yeah, he's he's, he's, he's throwing us, he's throwing all the cliches at us about team and selflessness and, um and they're cliches because they're, because they're real, you know? I mean, it isn't FIFA. It isn't like the video game where you just pick the 11 players with the, the longest green bars under their names. You know, it's, do they even do green bars? I don't know.
00:34:24
Speaker
I don't know. You're asking something the absolute wrong person on that one. I have no idea. I've never, I don't think I've played FIFA once. I've only even, in college I've only spun up soccer manager a few times. And I certainly don't understand it as much as I should.
00:34:41
Speaker
And so maybe it, maybe I'm the wrong guy to say this, but it does feel like there's a potential, because I feel like though, that's so much of the discourse around the national team. and to the a certain degree, the club game as well, but has been sort of like informed by those green, we'll use the green bars as as stand in, whether they're real or not FC or whatever.
00:35:04
Speaker
Right. Exactly. And that, That so much of the discourse has been around like, well, what if we created this fictional team that had the the highest collective ranking in these databases? Wouldn't that be the best?
00:35:17
Speaker
and i And it does seem like Pochettino has sort of destroyed that notion. At at least he is attempting to ah whether or not I suppose if the U.S. falls flat, it'll just be like, see, we were right all along. We should have been, you know, we should have been playing these guys. But ah right now where we sit, it it does look like he has in a relatively short amount of time because it wasn't always, you know, a few months ago, it didn't look like this way. But for the last few months, it does seem like he's finally like broken through in terms of like creating, changing the culture the way that he intended to.
00:35:52
Speaker
It seems like it. Yeah. I mean, we got four good results in a row. Drew Ecuador beat Australia, beat Paraguay, and then just destroyed Uruguay, which was the big, I think kind of the, the big reason for all the positive vibes, five to one over a team that is consistently in the top eight in the world.
00:36:16
Speaker
um But, you know, I mean, we'll
Unpredictability of the World Cup
00:36:20
Speaker
see. We'll see. It's going to be, yeah it's going to be hard. It's going hard at the world cup. And the, you know, we talked, Greg Velasquez talked about it on our show quite a bit, but he, I mean, he points out pretty convincingly that what a guy wasn't really trying that hard in that game.
00:36:35
Speaker
And, um, So there's always, soccer's a complicated game. That's why, that's why the badge FC stuff doesn't work necessarily. And why you can beat a really good team and lose to a really bad team in the same group stage, you know? Mm-hmm.
00:36:52
Speaker
Yeah, you know, and I think this is ah something, i don't remember where you guys got it from, but you got you have referenced this a few times where, you know, we spend all this time talking about where the team is in the buildup to these tournaments. And we say, you know, we predict it's going to go one way and and we we can only we can only go off of what we've seen, right? But yet the World Cup has a tendency to just be its own thing.
00:37:19
Speaker
Like it is almost disconnected from, You know, the they ultimately, the best team usually is the one who or one of the best certainly whoever wins the World Cup is undisputed is oftentimes a chalk team, right? It's France. It's Argentina. It's Germany. It's Brazil. It's always a chalk team. It's never it's always a chalk team. There's never been an underdog winner.
00:37:41
Speaker
Right. But we get to, but getting into the semifinals, any, almost seemingly anything can happen up through the semifinals. Right. Uh, where there is, you know, South Korea makes a miracle run and in 98 and, you know, we have plenty of examples of these of no 2002. Uh, yeah. 2002 and 98 was France.
00:38:02
Speaker
And, um, yeah. and ninety eight was france and um Anyway, we have all these examples of teams making these runs. And it does seem like they're oftentimes disconnected from where the – like Denmark famously winning the Euros after getting called off the beach or whatever it was. And Greece making – Greece won the Euros in 2004. Morocco went to the semis of the World Cup.
00:38:29
Speaker
Right. and And so I don't – I guess i don't know what my point of this is, but there is sort of an unpredictability to to all of this. But I bring it up because it's like, why couldn't the U.S. You know, the U.S. seems to be putting itself in a position where maybe they can pull. They can they can make a impressive run, which I think to me, like to me, to call this successful, they need to get to the quarterfinals. And then everything after the quarterfinals is sort of, you know, that's when you're talking about like history making type stuff. But yeah.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think quarterfinals is kind of a, um people will be disappointed if we don't get there in a World Cup on our on our home soil. But I think you're really right about it just being its own thing, the tournament.
00:39:17
Speaker
I had John Polis, who used to be the the press secretary for the U.S. men's national team back in like, back at the 1990 World Cup in Italy on my show like a year ago or something.
00:39:30
Speaker
And something he said really stuck with me. He's like, it's just a snapshot in time. are People. Oh, that's where it was from. Yeah. People who are, um you know, you know, wringing their hands about a tournament that's 18 months away. ah It's like, totally yeah he couldn't think of anything more pointless. It's like the, that they go into that camp, they do those friendlies. They go into that camp and that that group stage starts and it's just,
00:39:56
Speaker
it's its own thing, you know, it's like, how, how are they, how, how are they feeling about each other in that moment? And how does that translate on the field? It's, it's almost like what happens before and what happens after doesn't matter that much within the, within a larger framework of the best teams always win. And, um, usually the best teams are the ones in the semifinals, although we've listed some exceptions to that, you know?
00:40:22
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Uh, it,
00:40:26
Speaker
And I guess that's that's we are finally at that point where it's worth, though, talking about some of this stuff, because you're right. If we were to because at the time, I want to say that 18 months ago when you talk about you're looking at a snapshot like the U.S. felt like it was in a very, very different place than they felt like it was in a tailspin, didn't it? Right. and Like it felt like it was like, honestly, 18 months ago, I wouldn't have been sure that Pochettino would even be the coach still.
00:40:51
Speaker
We lost to Panama in the CONCACAF Nations League semifinals after also losing them in Copa America, you know, less than 12 months earlier.
00:41:03
Speaker
And then we lost to Canada in the in the third place game, which was it's just kind of insulting to have to even play that game and then to also lose it to Canada. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, things were not looking good. And then we, you know, remember we got totally trounced by Switzerland at the beginning of the summer. That came on the, or right before, or right after the draw with Turkey And then he called up a bunch of players.
00:41:29
Speaker
It seemed like a pretty experimental Gold Cup roster. And this is when the the sort of the irony started to kick in that he was... He was not going to be Mr. Badge FC. he was gonna He was going to call up a lot of MLS players and players that fans didn't have a lot of context for, like Max Arfston and Pat Ajumang.
00:41:48
Speaker
And, I mean, the Arfston the arrston call, that has paid off, man. I mean, he's... Big time. he's He is the... If Jedi Robinson isn't there, he's just probably going to be the starting left back, left wing back at the World Cup.
00:42:05
Speaker
What is going on with Robinson? He has been, because he was like the Iron Man for, and I guess maybe that's why, but he hasn't been able to play at all, right? He had surgery right after the season in the summer and hasn't played since. I mean, he played he played a little bit against Oxford United in that FA Cup, ah you know, round of...
00:42:31
Speaker
128 or something, whatever it was. he played like He played a little bit in that game, did not look like himself, and he hasn't been back on the field since. And I think that was in September or maybe August.
00:42:43
Speaker
So I think people are starting to worry that...
00:42:48
Speaker
When's he coming back? He's just right. Thank you for listening to the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network, which now includes Nos Adietes, Lobbing Scorchers, and The Cooler Guild. Although this podcast is free, it's only made possible through our paid subscribers. Plans start as low as $30 a year and allow us to remain independent and mostly ad-free. subscribers get access to all our written and podcast content, including a full text RSS feed and a mostly ad free podcast feed that includes every show in one spot. If you really like what we're doing though, I'd encourage you to sign up at our higher tiers, which include all sorts of various perks. The most popular of those is our members only discord where the real Sounders sickos hang out. I know I've called this group the smartest, funniest and best informed Sounders fans in the world, but it's more than the rough equivalent of a Sounders Mensa meeting. Discord is where we make things happen. Like, for real. You know the promotion the Sounders ran that offered fans the opportunity to trade in their messy jersey for a Paul Rothrock one? That originated in our community. You'll not only be the first to know about stuff, but you also have a semi-direct line to the movers and shakers at the Sounders organization. If you want to be one of the totally normal people who occupy the Sounder at Heart Discord, just become a supporter of Sounder at Heart. Anyway, thanks for listening, and go Durs.
00:44:05
Speaker
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00:45:07
Speaker
I mean, cause that would, i mean, cause he has to like, we we if you were, i mean, the assumption is that he'll be playing by then, right? You would think, but, But what what's the – I guess what are what are some of the big question marks that you think still are around this team you know ah six months out from meaningful games? Well, let me just let me just wrap up the Jedi thing because I think oh yeah um Brian Sharetta, the American Soccer Now reporter, he said on Big Soccer – or he sort of speculated on Big Soccer that it has to do with the type of knee surgery –
00:45:45
Speaker
Robinson had when he was a teenager at Everton. It's like that he he blew his ACL when he was an academy player and he had a type of surgery done that apparently has certain percentage of sort of deterioration rate over the course of 10 years.
00:46:03
Speaker
And then we about hit that It might not be 10 years, might be seven or eight. I don't know. Anyway, it's all a little speculative, but it is the it's the knee and it is the same knee that he had the surgery on.
00:46:16
Speaker
And there is this like medical reality that the the type of surgery he got isn't um doesn't have have the best track record for long-lasting results. So that's obviously a worst case scenario that that's what all this is, but...
00:46:32
Speaker
Is that a kind of he's done period type of situation? though i don't I don't know. I don't know. and don't know if that's true, but it it does. It is. I think it's a pretty serious problem. Okay.
00:46:44
Speaker
Other question marks, um, center back, as everybody knows, we've got Tim Reams, another player that, you know, you, you said Christian Roldan's one of the players that nobody expected to be back after the 2022 world cup. Tim Reams kind of another one.
00:46:58
Speaker
Yeah. Good point. Nobody's, he sort of snuck his way onto that roster. at the last minute, thanks to a Chris Richards injury. And now he is, um yeah, he's coming.
00:47:11
Speaker
and I mean, he's been the rock, ah right? Almost. He's been, which I don't love, but ah it does seem like he has been in some ways the most reliable center back that the U.S. has had, you know, ah chris not like non-Chris Richards edition.
00:47:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, maybe even more reliable. I mean, in a lot of ways, more reliable than Richards. But um he's old. He's 39, I think. white and He was old for the last World Cup.
00:47:41
Speaker
Right. So, so yeah, he's, you just can't, you can't count on him to win a foot race and to erase other people's mistakes or his own. He just isn't that kind of defender.
00:47:55
Speaker
He is, he is excellent on the ball. He is obviously a leader on the team. He's got, he's the one talking to Potch all the time. um So yeah, he's going to be there.
00:48:07
Speaker
Just hope he doesn't, you know, he doesn't get exposed physically. you can You can manage your way through that in soccer, you know, yeah in if if you get a couple of some lucky breaks.
00:48:21
Speaker
But it's definitely a concern. And then and then even beyond that, it's Dennis Richards. And then who's the, if we're going to do a three center back formation or if, we're you know, God forbid one of these guys gets injured, who's the next center back off the bench?
00:48:35
Speaker
I think it's kind of anybody's guess at this point. Tristan Blackman's in the mix, the Vancouver Whitecaps center back. And he has what, one cap at this point? What? Two caps. How many caps is Tristan Blackman? Two caps, but they're recent. And then he got hurt. No, I know. Which is why he wasn't in the last camp.
00:48:50
Speaker
And then, ah yeah. um Mark McKenzie, he's in the mix. Austin Trustee, who plays at Celtic. he's ah He's somewhere in there. There's probably a couple couple of others I'm not thinking of, but nobody's like, nobody, the reason Reem is still around and still is probably the most reliable center back for the team is because nobody's stepped up and replaced him.
00:49:12
Speaker
um And that is a that is a big weakness for the team, I think. and then And the big hope, I guess, was the kid from in Germany whose name
Center Back Selection Challenges
00:49:23
Speaker
is escaping me. No Kai Banks. Yeah. No Kai Banks. And he has completely fallen off, right? like like I mean, maybe not like he may have a future, but it does not look like 26 is remotely in his ah in his range at this point. I wouldn't rule him out completely yet because he could he could do really well in the second half of the Bundesliga season. Yeah.
00:49:46
Speaker
I mean, Potts has even said he's at an age where he can just explode and you know overnight he can become one of the best center backs in the Bundesliga. But he's not that right now. He is far from that. He's he's i mean he's like barely a starter on his club at this point. He starts every game. But he's but it's like he's his performances are not necessarily demanding that he's starting.
00:50:09
Speaker
No. Yeah. He's not, he's not been playing well lately at all. um But he keeps starting. So, and Augsburg did win over the weekend. I haven't, haven't checked in on that. I mean, sometimes with stuff like this, it's like, it happens sometimes.
00:50:22
Speaker
over the course of a couple of weeks, you know, especially when you're only 19 years old and you're learning how to play center back at a high level. So i so I don't rule them out, but if, if, if the world cup were tomorrow, no chance, no Kai banks makes the roster in my opinion. And I guess that's also why Tanner tests. I mean, Tanner Tessman has not played,
00:50:40
Speaker
center back for the U S but I guess he's been playing some for Leon right at center back. And as, does that seem like a I guess that's a, more of the big question marks is if he's better for the U S as a center mid or center back. glad you brought that up. Yeah. Cause I forgot to mention it. Yeah. He's, he's a, he's better as a midfielder, but do we need, what do we need more?
00:50:59
Speaker
um We need center backs more than we need midfielders. So we'll see how it goes. There's an injur there's an injury injury crisis at Lyon, and that's why he's playing center back.
00:51:10
Speaker
he He also is not the fastest human on earth, just like Tim Ream. um Maybe a little faster than Tim, but not that much faster. and But also also a really good passer.
00:51:23
Speaker
So maybe maybe it works out that way where he ends up playing center back. It's something so's it's kind of exciting to think about as a possibility. Yeah, this is the part where I am contractually ob obligated to say, well, what's Jackson Reagan got to do to get into this team? Because he seems to tick all the same boxes. He's just a younger version, a younger, bigger version of Tim Ream. But good of passer as Tim Ream?
00:51:46
Speaker
He is a he is by by the metrics, the best passing center back in MLS. Okay. But, ah you know. He's left footed too? No, he's right footed. That's the. Okay. But he plays on the left side. Okay.
00:52:00
Speaker
But, know, don't know. I mean, I feel like. i don't I think it's probably too late to get called. But who knows? Who knows? Yeah. what one more One more window before the pre-World Cup camp. It does seem unlikely, Jeremiah. But I don't know why he didn't. I don't know why Tristan Blackman gets the call.
00:52:19
Speaker
I mean, Blackman is one defender of the year in MLS, so I'm not no shade on Tristan Blackman, but that does a that suddenly seems like an interesting. he so but This is the state of the center back situation that we're even having this conversation, right?
00:52:33
Speaker
Well, but there you we know Potch loves nobody loves more than Sebastian Berhalter. the former coach's son. He really, really, really likes him.
00:52:45
Speaker
And, um, and maybe Tristan benefits from that being Sebastian's teammate, you know? I mean, and that is a ah funny little element is, you know, a couple months ago you would have said, how funny is it that Sebastian Berhalter has a better chance of making the world cup than Gio Reyna.
00:53:01
Speaker
And now it looks like, Why not both? Why not both? what ah What an amazing narrative that would be if both Sebastian Berhalter and Gio Reyna were to make the 2026 World Cup team, which I can't imagine in the immediate aftermath of the world of the previous World Cup was on literally anyone's... Right. Like...
00:53:24
Speaker
like I would have always expected Gio to be there, but I guess Sebastian is the one who's a surprise. Um, and you know, there was a lot, obviously there was the big controversy between each of their parents, but I don't, none of them. I just want to remind everybody that neither of them had any role in that, you know, Gio had some role. Gio had some role
00:53:51
Speaker
perhaps not behaving the best in camp and then getting, uh, having a story told about him by Berhalter, by coach Berhalter. That was his role. But everything that came after that and everything that happened 40 years ago, uh, 30 years ago, sorry, had nothing to do with Sebastian and Gio. So I have seen no reason why they can't be friends, you know?
00:54:12
Speaker
Right. Yeah, it's just, right. There's no reason they can't. And they have a lot of shared history. they like this is I think the thing that's most fascinating about that whole thing is that these are not two former teammates. These are two people whose lives have been as intertwined as two non-related lives can be, essentially. They were effectively best friends. they had Their wives were best friends. They they had many, many...
00:54:43
Speaker
you know many many celebrations together these are you know these are found family types that yeah that and it's what's made this whole and and like best i can tell sebastian and geo at one point were very good friends and yeah they they in some ways grew up together um and they didn't literally grow up together but the but they did um you know they spent time together as children so Yeah, it's really something. But it's it's cool. It's cool that, I mean, I'm very excited that Gio is back in the mix and starting to play more than anyone outside of the Reina family. I think you have been his champion.
00:55:22
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I just love the way he plays soccer, you know? um And i think, I do think, even though I have a lot of respect for the Roldans and the Berhalters, I will stand on my Euro snobbery a little bit and say,
00:55:41
Speaker
when the chips are down, when the game is difficult and tight and there are, uh, world, you know, world-class or borderline world-class players throwing themselves at you in, you know, at full speed, there is nobody on the team who can handle that kind of situation better than, than Gio Reyna in the middle of the park. And, and I do think there is some evidence that, that, um,
00:56:07
Speaker
I know I'm on a Sounders podcast, so I hesitate to say it, but there's some evidence that Roldan struggles a little bit when it gets really, really fast, really, really difficult. And same with Berhalter.
00:56:20
Speaker
Yeah. ah You know, I think it'll be interesting to see. I i tend to think that, there is certainly evidence of what you're speaking to. And I think you can find moments in his appearances with the national team, especially where you say, see, that's what I'm talking about. But I, I also think that's one of those things where we find things that we're looking for and it's easy to,
00:56:44
Speaker
find them if you're if you're laser focused on finding the failings of a player any player you can and i it's true i'm sure you can always find those moments because i but i think if you take the body of work i think you see you know christian rolled on i think if you look at the the level of competition that he's performed against you know to focus on him over the last year or so you know this is a guy who stood toe to toe with huh The Club World Cup and so forth. Yeah, I mean, you you look at the way he he acquitted himself in the Club World Cup and he's not going to face better opponents than that. Now, you can argue that's not – those were trumped up friendlies and you can – that wouldn't be ah an incorrect assertion.
00:57:26
Speaker
But I just think we only you know we can only know what we – on some level, i think Pochettino's faith in Roldan has been shown. like that he like that it's Or it's been rewarded, I should say.
00:57:41
Speaker
and i agree with that. you don't And and i tend I tend to think Christian gets a little bit of a – And not, you know, not just from you, but from a lot of folks, I think there's this desire to undersell the 30 year old who's playing in MLS as a, you know, as a commodity.
00:57:59
Speaker
And I, and I, so I sort of was trying to wink, wink ah about the Euro snobbery, but it's not just, it's not just MLS players who I think this way about. I think it's, um, I just think the world, like when a, when a world cup match gets going, it has this winnowing effect on like, it's just like who can actually handle this, not just in a, in like a character and mentality sense, but like has the actual soccer ability to do it.
Future of US Soccer and 2026 World Cup
00:58:28
Speaker
And like ah another, another player I, I hope ruled on plays and proves me wrong and does, and like is brilliant.
00:58:36
Speaker
But another player another player I think about this way is ah Brendan Aronson. you know like he People love his energy. he's He's running all over the place. But like when he gets on the ball in a World Cup game, I don't i don't expect a ah great thing to happen. you know I actually prefer Roldan to get on the ball than Brendan Aronson.
00:59:00
Speaker
Am I digging my hole deeper over here? Am I just, am I? No, I don't think you're digging your hole. No, no. Who cares? i'm not, I didn't have you on here to, to, to glaze our, I, that's a term I picked up from my kids. ah yeah Gross. To glaze our, our listeners.
00:59:18
Speaker
i want i want to i mean I had you on because I i want to hear this stuff. ah But who are the players in the U.S. that you feel like have that potential to sort of elevate elevate the team yeah and sort of be, like on the other side of the coin, who are the players that you're looking at as you know force multipliers or are players who are gonna that we're going to come away from this thing saying, like, see, we can we we have these guys too?
00:59:44
Speaker
I think West McKinney. definitely. Um, I think Fuller and Baligan, uh, Tyler Adams, Christian Pulisic, of course, I think Serginio Dest could be, you could get the full gamut of experiences from him in a, in a world cup. You could get some really bad stuff and you could get some really wonderful stuff. Both.
01:00:04
Speaker
Um,
01:00:07
Speaker
Yeah, in the middle of the park, which is where Roldan plays, ah it's McKinney and Reyna. I think Malik Tillman has has the quality. He is inconsistent.
01:00:19
Speaker
is' inconistent but He he has games where he just looks like he played against Manchester City a couple weeks ago and looked like the the best player on the pitch. And then he and then he he kind of he got yanked after an hour over the weekend against Augsburg, actually. actually ah when Nokai Banks and Augsburg beat Leverkusen. So yeah, those are the ones that I have some confidence that they can really elevate.
01:00:47
Speaker
ah
01:00:49
Speaker
And I, you know, that doesn't mean, i just think like that, that job receiving the ball in the middle of the park, And then figuring out how to figuring out how to release one of your teammates forward, not just pass it back to the guy who passed it to you. that is That is one of the hardest things in sports, to receive that ball in traffic, turn forward, and then do something ah useful with it.
01:01:16
Speaker
And um not very many people are that good at it. you know That's my that's my take on it. Yeah, no, I think that's ah that's fair. ah And no I think Reyna is. i think rain I think that is that is specifically what Reyna brings to the table, is that ability.
01:01:36
Speaker
Anyway, I interrupted you. No, no, no, no. i That's totally fair. Fine. ah So i'm going to let you get out of here soon. But, you know, we're looking at we're still six months away from this thing.
01:01:49
Speaker
What are you looking at for the next six months, both on and off the field? What are the things that you, what's like, what's left to do? What's, uh, what's left to figure out?
01:02:01
Speaker
Uh, I guess what, how do you think, what's the most efficient, what's the, how is this next six months going to be used?
01:02:10
Speaker
It's a really good question. I, I don't know that there's that much more to figure out, like with the roster, um, I would guess Pochettino mostly knows who he's going to call up.
01:02:25
Speaker
And you know we got these two games in March, but premium friendlies, first Belgium and then Portugal in Atlanta. That's nice.
01:02:37
Speaker
yeah I didn't even clock that Belgium. that we might be seeing We might be getting to know Belgium very well. Yeah, right. And ah the apparently the Portugal game is almost sold out already now that Cristiano Ronaldo and Donald Trump are best buddies.
01:02:58
Speaker
And he's coming back to soil for the first time in a long time. Without threat of arrest, apparently. Yeah. you know, think of that what you want.
01:03:09
Speaker
But... ah Yeah, I think i think the the one thing I'll be thinking about, this isn't precisely answer your question, but it's it's what's interesting to me is, like, how is this World Cup going to affect the sport in this country and the way Americans um feel about soccer and consume it and ah approach it?
01:03:34
Speaker
Will it make more kids want to play? Yeah. I'm really thinking about that. And I, and I'm, and I don't know how you quantify that or even how you would go about trying to quantify it or even think about it, but it's, but I'm, it's something I'm sort of picking my way around.
01:03:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think of it's something I've thought about a lot as well. You know, I i i know for a long time people have been saying, well, the 94 World Cup left us MLS as the legacy. And that, you know, pre there's really American soccer is two eras.
01:04:09
Speaker
There's pre-94 and there's post-94 and there's a very clear dividing line. And I think that And folks have been sort of saying, well, and look at how much farther along we are in 2026. The legacy of this has to be even bigger than MLS. But I think that could end up being true. But I think it's going to be much harder to quantify, like you said. Like, what is there left to – because in a lot of ways, soccer has already broken through to the mainstream. Now, it's not MLS necessarily, but soccer is now a mainstream –
01:04:42
Speaker
consumed by consumers right it's it you know you you you combine all the leagues together and you have a pretty viable commercial product in terms of like soccer being you know maybe the third biggest sport in the united states by consumption right uh yeah i would think it's you know it's right there with with the others uh but What's the next level? And what does that, you know, how do we even, how do we even figure that? I don't, I don't know. You know, i know 2022, I was asked by someone like, what do you, what do what is the thing that no one's talking about? And at that time I said, well, I think we don't, haven't gotten our hands around how,
01:05:24
Speaker
the impact of what 2026 is going to have. And I still don't think we have our hands around it. I still don't know what the impact of this is going to be. And it's, there are times when I become really, really frustrated and say, this is a huge blown opportunity because of how politicized it's become and how, you know, ah banana Republicy this all feels and in some ways.
01:05:49
Speaker
And yet we still, i still can't help, but, feel like this is somehow overcoming that at times uh and i think it will don't know think it'll just the games will start and it'll all just be about the games i mean you know qatar cutter was that um yeah that was not not a Not a human rights picnic over there either. And um it was about the games, you know? I mean, everyone that went said that if you just look at the time we were there and what I saw, it was they everyone raves about the experience, right?
01:06:32
Speaker
And they kind of put blinders on everything else that was going on around before and after and everything else. And they focus on... the, you know, the four weeks of the tournament and it was by most estimations, ah extremely successful, enjoyable experience. And I, I can't help but think that might be what ends up happening here is that, you know, there is going to be a lot of consternation and rightful frustration over stuff that happens before and and after and maybe during, but yet when those games start playing, we're all like kind of little kids. Yeah.
01:07:09
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I, and I mean, i would imagine the American experience for foreign travelers going to be grittier, grittier than the Qatar experience. You know, you're going to see. Well, you can't just take a shuttle to every, from every stadium. like Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
01:07:26
Speaker
I'm really going out on a limb there. Yeah. You're going, you got venues all over the country. The country is massive. mean, closer to Brazil in that way. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think people, people don't love soccer.
01:07:44
Speaker
Most people in America don't love soccer the way we do. Right. And I think the, what I want is more people to love the game and, and sort of appreciate for for the riches that it brings in a lot of ways, but all just a lot of, lot of it's just as a game.
Coaching Philosophy and Cultural Impact
01:08:04
Speaker
It's such an incredible game.
01:08:06
Speaker
Um, and so I see Pochettino on CBS this morning or, or whatever they call their morning show on the morning shows or on, uh, some of the mainstream sports shows. And I'm glad and he's there. He seems to be presenting himself. He's presenting himself well, you know, he's saying, he's saying good things.
01:08:24
Speaker
And, um, you just have to wait. And I guess I'm just hoping that a lot of people get excited. And I think a lot of that has to do with the moment of catharsis in, uh, in some of these games.
01:08:38
Speaker
It also just has to do with us. We can't go, if we go out in the round of 16, you know, it's just like every other world cup and people are just going to turn off their TV and turn on the Dodgers game or whatever, you know? Um,
01:08:55
Speaker
change the channel is the right way to say that you're going to change the channel to the Dodgers game. Right. But if we, you know, if we, if we take it up a notch and if we, and if we play in the way Potch says he wants everybody to play, you know, really believing and playing hard and,
01:09:10
Speaker
He showed, I saw he showed, um is it Pat McAfee, the sports guy? Pat McAfee, the clip back of- Pat McAfee. McAfee, McAfee. Showed him the clip of Tillman tackling somebody from Uruguay and then Alex Freeman picking the ball up and dribbling past Ronald Araujo and scoring.
01:09:33
Speaker
And um he said, Posh said to him, like, we think that the American people will love this kind of tackle. And then he shows him the clip. And, you know, I'm like, and that that kind of stuff is um it's cool. I think it's a good it's a good good move.
01:09:49
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. i had a whole i had a whole line of questioning I wanted to get into you about the the right way. What kind of questions journalists should be asking Pochettino and all that kind of stuff. But I think that's maybe...
01:10:01
Speaker
This is a good place to end this. Can we talk about a little bit? Okay, sure. We'll cut this in. No, that's good. Let's talk about that. i that would have Yes, I wanted to get into this. This is a little more journalism-y.
01:10:15
Speaker
I liked what you said. you so one of the things, people may or may not know this, but Pochettino has been actively pushing back against a fair amount of questions that he gets from the press corps. And he sort of does not, he says he doesn't appreciate the framing of a lot of these questions. Most famously, the bit about...
01:10:36
Speaker
your non first choice, but know why you what was the, he really didn't like the insinuation that the 70 players in the pool are in somehow hierarchical, i hierarchical.
01:10:48
Speaker
And, ah and I think you made a good observation, which is, cause I think a lot of fans have reactions one way or the other about how the questions are stupid um,
01:11:00
Speaker
poach as being too thin skinned about them. And i I think maybe I misunderstood your point, but I thought what you were saying is that that friction is good. That's going to get us better because every single time he pushes back against one of those questions, he shows us something about his mindset, about the way he thinks and that I've always believed and I constantly am coaching the people in in the Sounders press corps. Don't Don't be discouraged when the coach dis says he dislikes your question because we're learning things when the coach says he dislikes your question.
01:11:39
Speaker
And sure, I understand. I don't like someone telling me I may ask a bad question. Right. Right. But our job is not to be liked by the coach and to be the coach that the the the journalist he wants to call on most and get the question that he wants. our question Our job is not to ask the questions he wants to be asked in the exact way they want to be asked.
01:11:59
Speaker
Our job is to ideally get information from him. And if that information comes in the form of a prickly answer, that's fine.
01:12:11
Speaker
That's good even. Yeah. Job well done in that case. right You know, um, you know, one of the, one of the members of the press corps who really understands this, I think is Ron Blum from the Associated Press.
01:12:22
Speaker
Cause he, he, he asks the sort of blunt, almost over simplistic question almost every time. And almost so every time you get a good, you get some kind of good response. Sometimes the, sometimes the person answers the question cause they want to answer it.
01:12:40
Speaker
Uh, And sometimes they kind of dodge around it. um But it's not the point of asking questions is not to look smart. It's not like you said, it's not to be the be friends with the coach, but it's also not to look smart.
01:12:52
Speaker
Agreed. The reporter is not there to look smart. The reporter is there to get something out of the person they're interviewing um to reveal to to get them to reveal something about themselves. And so, yeah, I i totally agree with that.
01:13:05
Speaker
like a prickly answer or a rejection of the question. Or, I mean, when he was, when Potch was mad about the regular stuff, oh yeah you the YouTube video is just cinematic. I mean, he's bad. He's, he goes, it's very disappointing.
01:13:19
Speaker
Shaking his head, you know, very sad, very sad. You know, it wasn't sad at all. It was like, it was a totally reasonable question. And, um but it was a great moment, you know? It was.
01:13:32
Speaker
I think, I think that's, ah nobody needs, nobody needs to be the bad guy, you know? potcha That's what we need though. You know, that's what we need. That's what, that's what need we need moments like that for this to catch, to catch, to get people's attention. And, and I almost, i would almost,
01:13:53
Speaker
suggest that Pochettino might be doing it might even be know what he's doing I don't know I I it's he strikes me as someone who might actually get it like he needs to create these moments of conflict in order for there to be I mean Argentinians I know are famously low-key and low-energy and don't uh you know no one has ever called them uh you know anything other than straight and shooters when it comes to this stuff. They don't understand how to interact with the press there.
01:14:23
Speaker
Uh, but I think there's a chance I'm being sarcastic in case it's not obvious. I think there's a chance he might actually know what's know what time it is and, and actually be feeding into that. And that's fine too.
01:14:34
Speaker
Uh, well, we talked about this. We talked about this on Monday. The part of the result of all this is you can see his passion and, Right. For, for yeah his passion for the players, his passion for how the discourse is framed. Like he really, he really cares.
01:14:50
Speaker
And right there was a moment, you know, after the March window, earlier this year where it's, seems you know, you kind of wondered, is he just here for the $6 million dollars payday? At least I did. 100%. And,
01:15:04
Speaker
and um And he has totally erased that concern, I think, and partly by mixing it up with the press. you know he's he's ah He's demonstrated that he's in this for his own reasons, and he is he is um he is serious about the task.
01:15:22
Speaker
And he wants other people to see it the way he sees it and talk about it the way he talks about it because he cares. And I think that's been a really cool outcome of all this as well.
01:15:33
Speaker
Yeah, I do too. I mean, I think, you know, we, you know, I asked you earlier on in the show about, isn't it ironic that this guy who we expected to come in and sort of do the badge FC, like he was sort of the badge FC coach, right? ah And that he sort of put that on its head.
01:15:50
Speaker
And in some ways he was the only, he was the person who could do that. and in other and in and And in the same way, he's also the kind of guy who can do what he's doing now where he can act sort of like he can just be a soccer coach. He doesn't have to, you know, he doesn't have to be this, know,
01:16:08
Speaker
He doesn't have to – he can be an ambassador by not being ambassador-ly, if that makes sense. Like he can raise the profile of the game by not acting thirst so thirsty that he wants – that he's like openly being being that, you know, ah which is I think if Jesse Marsh had been the coach, probably what would we be getting right now? Like he'd probably be doing all that stuff, right? And it would feel so much more – you know, uh, forced, even if it was, even if it is really how he, even if it was genuine, it wouldn't feel as genuine as it feels when potches doing it.
01:16:42
Speaker
And we'd be so tired of hearing Jesse talk by now. Don't you think? I mean, Oh, Oh my God, dude. yeah And and i think he i think he's a I think he's a good soccer coach.
01:16:53
Speaker
I think he's a good soccer coach. I do too. If he does end up coaching the men's national team in the future, I won't be surprised and I won't be that upset about it. That is not a feeling shared by everybody on my podcast. but I have gathered.
01:17:06
Speaker
But I think, you know, so no like special ill will for Jesse Marsh from me. But um yeah, I'd be tired of him at this point if he were the coach.
01:17:17
Speaker
And, yeah you know, Potch's, the language barrier is, it's a it's a small barrier, but it is a little bit of a barrier. and I think it's helping. In terms of his way he communicates with the press.
01:17:32
Speaker
I know, but I think that, ah you know, it's it's just very funny. And I guess maybe this will be a good way to tie it all together, is that it it is very funny because I think Pochettino has ended up being the right coach. Yeah.
01:17:46
Speaker
for all the wrong, like for all the reasons we didn't think we're going to like, we need an America. Like there's always, always been this thing. we We kind of need an American coach or at least we need, we need a coach who knows the American fan and the American player and, and understands us as a people. And we, we need a coach who's going to just put all the bullshit aside and pick the,
01:18:10
Speaker
the best players and it's not going to be a popularity contest and all these. And, and, and yet he's, he's ended up in some of, in a lot of ways, the place where I think we all hoped a coach would end up, but he is sort of like, we needed it to be the right guy for all the reasons we didn't expect. You know? That's an interesting way to think about it. Yeah.
01:18:29
Speaker
Yeah. I hadn't thought of it specifically that way, but it's, it sounds right to me. Well, just came up with it on
Podcast Recommendation and Closing Remarks
01:18:36
Speaker
the fly. So there you
01:18:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:18:42
Speaker
But ah anyway. Pleasure talking with you. It has been. i've i love these little... i love taking our ah texting and bringing it into full light of everyone's sleep. So...
01:18:58
Speaker
um I do. I want to say i want to close out, though, by saying if you haven't if you are looking for another fix scuffed is like I don't know that I am a living. i don't know if I live and breathe the U.S. national team.
01:19:12
Speaker
quite like a lot of your listeners do, but I find your podcast to be absolutely essential, especially when things are getting interesting like they are right now. I think you do a really amazing job of, of synthesizing the both like having like the this like level of detachment from everything that is chaotic and crazy about u s national team, Twitter and, and sort of giving that,
01:19:39
Speaker
and so like treating it seriously enough to be like, I understand the conversations that are going on, but I also feel like you do a good job of not getting so bogged down into it. And I just really, I enjoy your, I listened to almost every episode of your podcast again, and like especially when things are getting interesting, like they are right now. And i think you do a great job and I hope people not just listen to your podcast, but join the, that become patrons. And, ah Yeah, you do great job, but Adam.
01:20:09
Speaker
I just want to say that. Thank you, Jeremiah. Yeah, appreciate your friendship and all these years being a sounding board. Let's party. Let's party in yeah in June. Yeah.
01:20:20
Speaker
Look for details on that because I think that's – I might be more excited about that that than game, to be honest you. Yeah, I mean, a watch – I mean, a nice big watch party in Seattle during the game for $1,000 less than going to the game.
01:20:36
Speaker
Sounds awful nice to me. Yeah, I think that sounds good. I like that idea. It's it's hard to... i we are We don't need to keep going. I was going to say, it's hard to watch games ah live.
01:20:50
Speaker
Don't you think? i mean, I almost... miss stuff You miss stuff. They don't show the replays as well. And you're like, what what what would happened over there? I didn't i didn't quite see that. did he Was there a deflection? and ah Yeah, i haven't I haven't watched a game that I truly care about the results from anywhere other than my couch or the press box in so long that I don't...
01:21:15
Speaker
Yeah, like I haven't sat in the stands for a game that I actually care about the results in so long ah that I don't even know in the last time it was like where I really care. Like I've been to Sounders games where I've sat in the stands recently, but not like a really important game that I'm like living and breathing the results of and I'm I agree. Like being in the stadium, there is something about being in the stadium and being in the stands and being excited. But ah I, in some ways, like I'm almost as more as excited about going to the fan fest for a random ah games,
01:21:48
Speaker
than I am about going to any game. Like I'm, I, I'm much more interested at this point in sort of just being like, I just want to be around the energy and, uh, and you can oftentimes get that at a watch party or whatever. And, um, anyway.
01:22:02
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I imagine the watch parties are going to have a lot of energy. Uh, man, can't wait. Yeah. Well, Adam, again, thank you for doing this, uh, scuffed podcast again.
01:22:14
Speaker
And you guys also cover the women's national team. It should be said you guys do a good job covering the women's national team. We are our sister podcast. ah Yeah. Boots on the ground. Check that out.
01:22:27
Speaker
That's ah vincent Vince, who's on Scuffed, does that with Tara, who used to be on Scuffed, but now is pretty busy with boots. so Great. Well, we'll hope to see. we'll we'll We'll hear more from you soon, I'm sure.
01:22:42
Speaker
But all right, well, I'm going to sign us out then on that note. ah I'm Jeremiah Shan. This is No Sadiette as part of the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network, and we'll catch you next time.
01:23:23
Speaker
Let's go at Sounders.