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Will the Sounders have to play short-handed against Real Salt Lake?
0 Playsin 2 hours
With several key players on International duty and several more injured the Sounders are missing as many as 11 players for their match against Real Salt Lake. In this episode of What We Learned This Week Jeremiah, Niko, and Tim talk about what players could be called up from Tacoma Defiance to fill the roster and speculate on what a possible starting lineup will look like against RSL. Will we see chaos or is this is a good opportunity for some younger players? The guys also round up how Obed Vargas and Reed Baker-Whiting have looked for their respective Mexico and United States National Teams at the U20 World Cup.
Follow Niko Moreno on BlueSky and YouTube.
Tim Ostlund-Foss writes for Sounder at Heart.
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Transcript
Introduction and Partnerships
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. Here we go. Come on. Hey, O'Shaan.
00:00:14
Speaker
Let's The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup Here comes Ruiz Diaz through the middle to crown it for Seattle. The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:29
Speaker
of
00:00:59
Speaker
you know what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't? Ever since I wrote a commentary that we didn't take the outcome seriously.
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
Team Updates and Injury Crisis
00:01:41
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adietes on the Sounder at Heart podcast network. I am Jeremiah O'Shan. It is Friday. We are at Long Acres. And of course, I am joined by Nico Moreno and again, Tim Foss of Sounder at Heart.
00:01:54
Speaker
Welcome to the welcome back, guys. It's been a it's actually been this is a good this is like the kind of week that this show was designed for, because i actually think we learned a lot in training this week.
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And it's it's been a little while since all three of us were here. So good to good to congregate and have a little chat. Yeah, more eyes, more ideas into what, one, we could potentially see on the field, too, who are some players that might step up. um There are obviously some injury updates and things that we've been able to see in here. So, yeah you're absolutely right, Jeremiah.
00:02:30
Speaker
This is what this show is all about. Exactly. So let's get right into that. it The Sounders are down to 13 healthy and available first team players. They would have qualified for a um extreme hardship.
00:02:47
Speaker
ah So even though the roster is frozen, in normal In a normal time, they would still be allowed to have one player up from the from Defiance or whatever on a short-term loan.
00:03:00
Speaker
But because it's an extreme hardship, they're able to bring up as many as three in this case. because they're down So it's basically how many players they need to get to 18, we found out. or Sorry, they need to get to 16 outfield players. So they can bring up three players from...
00:03:15
Speaker
ah Tacoma Defiance to play on a short-term loan for the Sounders We were basically told they gonna use all three of those call-ups all week We they've had five They've had more than this in and out but all week they've had five players that have been training with them you suke no me and Tina Lopez Sebastian Gomez Leo Bernie who is technically out twin in between because he was on a full season loan so I don't know I should have asked, but I think he would count as one of those call-ups.
00:03:46
Speaker
And then who's the – oh, Peter Kingston. So you've got two center – no, you've got one center back. you Two center backs. Two center backs. Chino and Leo. Yes, okay, two center backs, kind of a winger in Sebastian Gomez.
00:04:01
Speaker
I guess you would maybe call Tsukunome an attacking player. And then Peter Kingston is more of a midfielder. He could maybe deputize as ah as a fullback if needed.
00:04:11
Speaker
But those are all all five of those players are interesting. We did get some clarification. Yusuke Nome is not eligible for call-up because he would require an international roster spot.
00:04:23
Speaker
The Sounders do not have an open international roster spot. So it seems like Sukunome's presence was more about maybe looking towards next year and it it seems to indicate that he's probably going to get signed to the first team, but they're giving him some early reps.
00:04:35
Speaker
So among Leo, Bernie, Tino Lopez, Sebastian Gomez, Peter Kingston, I don't know if you want to, you want to just, let's talk about those players a little bit. Tim,
Player Evaluations: Gomez, Lopez, and Hawkins
00:04:45
Speaker
you want to pick one or two of those you want to talk about?
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think, Not that he necessarily is the most likely to join the group just because of some of what we've seen in training regarding the way they're probably going to line up on the field.
00:05:02
Speaker
um Sebastian Gomez might not have the best shot just because I don't know that they're really going to be using pure wingers although i think he could be he can function as sort of a pocket winger a little bit so maybe he does make a little bit of sense but him getting a ah call for this game would be really intriguing for me because i do think he's one of the players currently at defiance who has I've described it as a ah Snyder Brunel sort of trajectory that like by that I mean probably a around next summer signing. But um just from a productivity standpoint in a very similar number of minutes to Georgie Manungu before Manungu was a like full time first team player.
00:05:57
Speaker
Gomez compared really favorably from a productivity standpoint and is five years younger than him or something around that range. He is 18, but he's a, he's a really technical,
00:06:13
Speaker
attacking player who mostly plays out wide who's got good vision and um ah a high motor player too yeah definitely they've the defiance during the second half of the season have used him in central midfield a bit too so there is a little bit of versatility that was more out of necessity than anything else but I think he's a very intriguing option, maybe not as much of a some of those other guys are more raising the floor for this game. And he probably would be maybe he plays 15 minutes at the end of this game if he gets called up. But I think.
00:06:52
Speaker
If you're already kind of locked into your playoff seating at this point, a little bit of value in kind of getting a sense of what you've got ah ahead of the offseason.
00:07:05
Speaker
um But I think he's a he's a really intriguing prospect. I actually think he's got a pretty good chance to be called in just because they don't have a lot of options out wide. Like they are a little flush with forwards. They have all of Osaze, Danny Mussovsky, and Jordan Morris.
00:07:22
Speaker
Only one of them most likely is going to start. And so they don't really have great bench options. yeah So I think he might actually be, he might make sense just as a player to have in case they need another wide attacker.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yeah. Or if you're chasing a goal. Right, exactly. Because what we've heard a lot from Brian this season when he comes to Kalani playing that wingback position is that he doesn't mind him in in those inside channels and being a guy that can connect through. He can be a guy that gets into the 18, makes some of those inside runs.
00:07:55
Speaker
That puts Sebastian Gomez on that wide end where we've seen him here at practice. I still recall when... ah Paul Rothrock had that hand injury. The first player they called in to replace him was Sebastian Gomez. And that's who you kind of reminds me a lot of, actually, the way he plays. He has very Paul Rothrock vibes to me.
00:08:15
Speaker
But what I would say is that I do see him comfortable when he does come inside. You know, I've seen him a couple of times play that neutral ah when they do the small started games where your pivots are usually your neutrals because you want to keep them constantly on the sidelines.
00:08:28
Speaker
transition phase of the game. ah So I think that's that's a great call. It's interesting. I like him as a player for what I see here at training. ah He's a guy that maybe two to three times a week, you're like, oh, that was a nice play. That was a nice turn.
00:08:43
Speaker
You know, those are the sort of things that I look for in a player that I'm bringing up. ah I'm curious to see if Tino Lopez is the guy that gets brought up because I do think that Obviously, best case scenario, Stu should be your first guy off the bench to replace your center backs.
00:09:03
Speaker
But if there is a need to have someone else, Tino Lopez was a guy that I was very high on about a year ago. And he sounded like he was trending in the right direction. And he kind of fell off little bit. He's been hurt. He's gotten a lot of he's been in and out of of his health has not been great this year, which is I think what's held him back mainly. Yeah, and what I've seen in our practice with him is he he has that ability to be on the ball a lot, right? And that's something that this team needs because they built out of the back so much because they they do need your center backs to have so much of the possession of the ball to help out on the attack, push up a little bit higher, especially if you're going to play with three men on the back.
00:09:41
Speaker
There is that need for one of those three to push up and kind of help the the the buildup and the link of play a little bit higher up the field. So Tino Lopez is a guy that... I'm curious and and I really want to see if he does get a call up to to get up there. But I will, again, preface it by saying that I would much rather see Stu, a guy that it seems like he's your future center back. He and I've told you this and I've said it in a couple of shows that the kid has gained some serious muscle mass. yeah Yeah. It looks like he's just been in the gym just pumping.
00:10:14
Speaker
ah So I want to see where he's at right now because he's always had the technical skills, always had the that the breaking pass ability. ah But now with a little bit of a broader, you know, back, shoulders, I mean, I'm interested to see his physicality.
00:10:26
Speaker
Yeah, he has not unfortunately been able to get on the field much in the last few months. He he's basically missed the last four months ah where he had, my understanding is he had like ah a quad injury or a some kind of muscle injury that he picked up while doing post-game sort of like, ah what do they call it?
00:10:44
Speaker
Cool down exercises. Warm downs. Warm downs. There you go. And so he hurt himself there and that ended up being a kind of, you know, somewhat significant injury. And then in the process of recovering, he got and he had another injury. So he's put them together. He's missed four months, essentially.
00:10:59
Speaker
Before that, he was a you know, he was on like a rocket ship in terms of his ascension. He was, you know, ah he would have he would almost certainly be at the U-20 World Cup right now. ah He was probably the Sounders best.
00:11:12
Speaker
you know, a center back prospect. He has, you know, last year we were talking about how even last year
Defensive Challenges and Tactical Debates
00:11:18
Speaker
he'd probably outgrown and MLS Next Pro. And the idea this year was for him to, if not necessarily get serious minutes with the first team to be loaned out and to, you know, be playing somewhere else competitive soccer.
00:11:30
Speaker
Unfortunately, the injury sort of like put a kibosh on that. He did get some decent minutes. He got into, I think, three games with the Sounders this year. looked fine in all those games. Hasn't gotten a start yet, unfortunately, but he has gotten onto the field a few times.
00:11:44
Speaker
And I suspect that he's going to get ah significant amount of playing time in this one just because... JP probably can't like my suspicion is JP is going to start. That's what it looks like is JP is going to start.
00:11:56
Speaker
I can't imagine he goes more than 50, 60 minutes at most. He might come out at half and then I would imagine what they would do is then move Alex up to his spot and then put Stewart in. ah But yeah, Antino Lopez. Another thing about him.
00:12:09
Speaker
He was kind of a leader with the Defiance last year. he was I think he was actually the team captain a lot of the time. And he I like him a lot in terms of his stability. He's a good floor raiser.
00:12:20
Speaker
on the The other center back that they're talking about bringing in is Leo Bernie, who's had ah who also has struggled to stay healthy this year. He has been healthy, I feel like, for a couple months now, which is good.
00:12:32
Speaker
you know You look at his numbers, and they haven't been great with Defiance. I think a lot of that is that... He just hasn't been healthy. He also happened to be with Defiance at a time when the Defiance were awful.
00:12:44
Speaker
Yeah, ah probably their worst run of results that they've ever they've had since moving into MLS Next Pro. And I don't necessarily put that on him. That was a very dysfunctional sort of team for a few months there, ah in part because they just I think we're kind of about a talent deficit.
00:12:59
Speaker
Yeah. i The Stu Hawkins note is something that I wasn't considering as much saying that Seba Gomez might be the option. I think really it probably because you do have Stu probably is between one of Bernie and Lopez gets the call because you also whether they stay in the three back the whole game or not.
00:13:29
Speaker
the The Sounders have sort of, through the development system, gotten to a place where Hawkins is sort of the in a Jackson Reagan mold as far as size and distribution ability and to varying degrees, Antino Lopez and Leo Bernie are more in the Jamar mold of, they are a little bit more athletic. Physicality is a little bit more of their game. They both can distribute some, but I think because
00:14:04
Speaker
Lopez has been ah little bit ah healthier for a little bit longer. Maybe that is the more sensible choice. Yeah. um Even if I think you could.
00:14:17
Speaker
The organization was pretty high on Leo Bernie when they brought him in at the start of this year. And he just hasn't had as much of an opportunity to really get going. it feels like he's been dealing with one injury or another basically from almost beginning of training camp. Right. And so I think maybe his ceiling is higher, but in this game from your subs, probably looking to raise the floor. And I think Tino Lopez is the better option there. And then Peter Kingston provides you with...
00:14:47
Speaker
If versatility, versatility, he can play in central midfield. That's primarily where he plays with defiance. So whether that's, you know, if I believe he and Danny Leyva have played alongside each other. that would make sense. A few times. If JP can only go, even if it's 45, if you make a halftime sub, you can bring Peter Kingston on to play there. He could also...
00:15:13
Speaker
presumably play the Kalani, Kosarienzi, right wing back role. I think he gives you some some options and flexibility. And a good passer. And set piece service too.
00:15:26
Speaker
He's a good passer. I like that about him. I mean, he's 24. He has the frame for Ed. Seems like he's never um out of sorts when he's with the team.
00:15:37
Speaker
I don't think there's been anything that has been brilliant that I've seen out of him, but sometimes you need those players that can be a safe bet. And he he has the experience playing in USL and he feels beyond his years at times, although he's 24, you know, he's up there, but he he he does feel like a guy that you could count on. So I think all all those guys could be interesting. But if I had to pick the three, ah it'd probably be Tino,
00:16:07
Speaker
uh, I would like to see Sebas and Peter Kingston. I, yeah, and that's who I would probably be. Peter Kingston is also a guy that Wade Weber really likes. And if I was making a list of guys whose talent identification is better than mine, Wade Weber is pretty high on that list.
00:16:23
Speaker
So his hit rate's solid. is His hit rate is, it is sort like a a slept on thing. Wade Weber has overseen a very, uh, productive stretch of, uh, Defiance era. Like he they give you look at the number of players that are on the first team roster that have been coached for at least a season by Wade Weber. It's kind of ridiculously high.
00:16:45
Speaker
I mean, Wade was calling his shot on Jackson Reagan and Paul Rothrock like eight years ago. Exactly. Yeah, it's pretty good. And based on that in like 15 years when they've both retired from soccer, presumably they're going to be president and vice president. Right. Yeah, that is that was a common thing. Wade used to tell people is like, I think these guys are going to be president when president and vice president one day. ah So let's get into the to what we actually think is going to happen with the the starting lineup. They're not a lot. Like I said, there's only 13 available outfield players. So there aren't a lot of options and it kind of
00:17:20
Speaker
picks itself a little bit uh like i said three of those are forwards probably only i don't think they're gonna do something crazy like go to a two forward setup so i think we can assume jordan morris is one of those starters uh and then the other player off the bench is stewart hawkins who is not eligible to start or who probably is probably not healthy enough to start You see where I'm going. The lineup kind of writes itself it kind of makes itself.
00:17:45
Speaker
ah The question is what formation we think it is. And to me, it looks it makes the most sense to go with the 3-4-2-1 that they started the season with. They have not played with a ton since you know ah June or so.
00:18:00
Speaker
But... It's a formation that they know well. And if they do that, I would assume it's going to be what Steph Fry and then center backs of John Bell, Jackson Reagan, Alex rolled on. That's another kind of ah maybe surprise. I don't think it shouldn't be like you know Alex looked very good when he played there ah earlier this year. I think in a three back and a three center back set up, it actually is kind of a really intriguing situation.
00:18:24
Speaker
option going forward even uh and then the the wing backs would probably be paul rothrock on the left uh kalani cosarienzi and then it looks like a double pivot of danny leva and jao paulo uh and then jesus ferrero probably play as the 10 and then you have uh next to pedro next to pedro and then jordan up top yeah i mean without having a full strength It's a pretty good lineup and really good selection of players for that formation. agree.
00:19:02
Speaker
the The prospect of Ferreira and De La Vega under Morris is... If you at any point recently have been like, man, I wish they were playing more through balls for Jordan Morris. There's going to be some of the baby. Yeah, you're going to see it, especially JP and Danny Leyva are both very capable of playing.
00:19:23
Speaker
They both play a particular sort of clipped ball over the top for someone like Jordan to run on to. But you also have. Kalani and Paul, who are absolute dogs and will make runs in behind as well. So Jordan is not the only one who has to stretch the back line. Those guys will also stretch for width and depth, which then creates more space for Jordan to run into space for those balls over the top and having De La Vega and Ferreira making that secondary run behind.
00:20:03
Speaker
I think it's a really intriguing and exciting setup. i think the only quit I don't think their ability to generate chances should be... inquit like This is ah an offense or this is a group of players who I feel very confident will generate chances.
00:20:15
Speaker
I think the only question is is how effectively can they defend? Because that is a little bit more of a makeshift. there's not you know Danny Leyva and JP have played together. They have had some games where they were actually really effective early in the season.
00:20:27
Speaker
but they aren't necessarily as mobile as Christian and Obed. ah Maybe an understatement. ah But they are both capable players. I think the only question for me is really how many minutes can Joe Paulo go?
00:20:40
Speaker
Yeah, durability is ah one of the things. Discipline defensively is the other one. I think Kalani and Paul Rothrock are both guys that are going to be on the attacking end. and yeah that They focus on that aspect of the game.
00:20:57
Speaker
So, you know, how much can you exploit those spaces that that they leave? i think that JP is the guy that you would want there because his IQ allows him to see and anticipate those pockets of space before they create. I've seen him do it consistently.
00:21:13
Speaker
i think he's going to be doing a lot of ah traffic control and making sure that guys are in the right spots. um I think Alex does a good job at that as well in the three-man back line. He's going to be able to close some space, but that's going to be the real question mark is how disciplined.
Sounders' Resilience Amidst Injuries
00:21:30
Speaker
ah you know I talked to Danny Leyva this week. ah yesterday and he was talking about how communication going to be key and you're going to have to let somebody know hey i'm getting high cover my space which is something that in those the stretch of games where seattle was dropping points that was something that i would talk to a player we talked to another one everybody was like yeah we should ah i should have let him know that i was higher ah should have you know maybe mentioned this and that so that's going to be a key component. I'm also a little bit um concerned about, you know, the width is a thing that
00:22:05
Speaker
but Kalani and Paul Ratham both give, but you do kind of miss the the services into the box from Alex. yeah Alex is such a good service into the 18 that, you know, maybe Ferreira can do some of those things when he gets out on the wider channels of of the game.
00:22:21
Speaker
ah But those are maybe maybe, that's maybe the only thing is the services into the 18 from those white spaces. Maybe the one and only thing that that that you might be missing. but But I'm excited. I think you guys are right for having...
00:22:35
Speaker
You said 13 players available. Yeah. It all fits very well. And that's credit to the roster build. That's credit to the system. And it's it's credit to a team that that next man mentality is just a slogan unless you show it on the field. And it feels like this team has done it consistently.
00:22:54
Speaker
They've lost one game at home all season long, despite the ridiculous amount of injuries. So, you know, that the proof is in the pudding. Yeah, I will say that you're you're probably right. i don't I don't expect this team to be throwing in a lot of crosses ah to the degree that they're going to be getting into the box. It's probably going to be a little bit more like cutbacks and and things like that.
00:23:15
Speaker
ah You know, and I will. One of the other things i was I was just thinking about right now was it may have ended up being a little bit of a blessing in disguise that Albert was not available for this game, because I'm sure the temptation would have been to start him next to either JP or Danny and if we're being totally honest I don't know that either one of them are an ideal like Albert is not an ideal partner for either one of those people ah He had a great like he he was great at covering ground last week.
00:23:44
Speaker
I think he can do that job but his strength is getting forward. And if he's going to be, you know, if he's paired with either one of those guys, I think there's, you know, I think he's exposing JP too much if he's exposed with, if he's with him and he's, and then I also think he's maybe being asked to be a little bit more a defensive player than he should be if he's with Danny.
00:24:05
Speaker
And so I just, I think that in some ways this is a better pairing for what, for the whole, you know, given everyone else. i would agree And so, you know, look, It would be great to have Albert, but I i can kind of see, you know, i can I can convince myself that this is better than if Albert were actually available.
00:24:22
Speaker
ah The one that really does hurt is Kim being out, and it does look like, and this that one could be a little bit more of a concern, like a bigger concern, because their center back situation doesn't necessarily get any better next week. Because next week they are playing at New York City FC.
00:24:40
Speaker
Yamar probably won't be back by then. No, he won't. I don't see any reason to believe Kim's going to be back by then. And so that there's no one else ah really other than Stu. Maybe Stu can get bitter, ah which is would be another good option. But ah it's that's that's one that gives me a little bit more pause heading into the playoffs. Hopefully, Yamar is ready for the playoffs. We can deal with that ah later. I just had a...
00:25:04
Speaker
horrifying thought of going into the playoffs without yay more and it's like actually a pretty big concern because i don't know we don't we have no idea when kim might be available i mean maybe he's available for the playoffs but it did not sound earlier this week you know we wanted maybe we'll talk about this earlier this week brian schmetzer gave an update on kim and he he did not sound optimistic about kim kim's uh ability to get back soon He struggled to describe the injury made me very nervous. yeah The fact that he got into calling it whether was swelling or an injury in the calf, a mass, and talking about blood work and all of these things was just odd to me. I i don't know what the situation is, but it clearly sounds like it's a lot more complex than just a regular injury. Well, he said he was kind of bothered by it, I think, is what he said. like He made a comment that he was –
00:25:56
Speaker
yeah That it wasn't a simple like it wasn't like he just had a cramp. No. Or, you know, there is a, you know, ah like, I don't know, there's some there's something going on there that does not sound.
00:26:09
Speaker
And it sounds like it's sort of been this ongoing issue that they thought they'd worked through and they clearly haven't. Like, I think this is the same injury that basically knocked him out of at halftime of the Club World Cup. Right. Because Kim has hasn't looked good the last two games, and it it's been a little bit of a mobility issue. There's that one opportunity that Portland has where he kind of like stumbles and falls. yeah It's a little bit of flat-footedness, but it's you can tell that he's just not there with the explosiveness. I'm going to go ahead and say that that's probably ah a factor.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree. um it is You know, when you start getting into using terms like mass and for a leg injury, needing to do blood work, you kind of start turning towards like, well, I hope Kim Kihi is OK. Right.
00:26:55
Speaker
Period. Not just I hope he's back for the playoffs sort of situation. sort of Yeah. And it it does start to give. chad marshall going out in the playoffs ptsd vibes a little bit of just you you start being so short-handed that it's like you just kind of run out of bodies right uh and that's you know tough A tough way for the deepest team in the league to go out. Right, yeah. ah There's only so deep you can be.
00:27:27
Speaker
i mean, I suppose this is where Alex Rodon's center back starts to come into play. Like, i don't know, maybe he's their they center back in the playoffs, which doesn't, like, I laugh, but it's not, I don't think that that's... i would not At this point, I would not be at all surprised to see Alex Rolando start a playoff game.
00:27:40
Speaker
I don't hate that idea. i mean, I like it conceptually. it does not make me feel warm and cozy and comfortable going into the playoffs. But I think... It's not a bad like it's there are certainly worse situations you could be in. i suppose ah anything else about this group of players that you feel like we need to get into, you know, John Bell. I will just say John Bell has been sort of a underrated.
00:28:08
Speaker
you know, he's a addition. He's been able to just fill in and he's been reliable and he doesn't necessarily do anything to make you jump out of your seat in excitement, but he just is solid. He he does his job.
00:28:20
Speaker
I do think it's i like I don't want to harp on it too much, but I this is almost an ideal set of players to have available to play the formation they're likely to play in that.
00:28:38
Speaker
I think that three back, particularly with Alex and John as the wide center backs, provides you with a degree of cushion with the way Rothrock and Cossarienzi are likely to play as wingbacks.
00:28:56
Speaker
But those guys are also going to get back. It just is their primary Primary directive is to get forward and be involved.
00:29:09
Speaker
The that three back also provides you with some ground cover help with a midfield pairing that is not your most mobile midfield pairing. That midfield pairing also is probably your best ball control.
00:29:24
Speaker
Yes. Midfield pair, which this is a game. The centers probably want 60 percent of the ball. Yeah. And not that I think there are too many comparisons you can really draw from these two teams meeting in March.
00:29:36
Speaker
But one of the frustrating things from that game was. When Jackson came in he was playing on the right side and was pushing way up on the right wing. That's the game where he was like playing almost as a ah right wing, like he was like just serving in crosses, right? Which it Jackson's long balls are excellent, but he does not play those Alex rolled on balls very often. yeah And playing in the three back with Alex there where, you know, Kalani is going to push up and inside probably you still do have the potential to when you are holding possession deep in the other team's half to have Alex serve those sort of early crosses.
00:30:26
Speaker
It's, you know, it all adds up. but I like not guaranteeing a win, but I think it's a it's a group that sets up really well for this game and and they match up well because Regardless of the changes in the backfield, which I think my only concern sometimes with J Bell and Alex is that because they are so Comfortable on the ball. Sometimes they get too comfortable on the ball and it's an easy turnover It's a bad pass and of sudden you are on a bad position where you're given ah a soft goal
00:31:00
Speaker
RSL doesn't have great talent up top, especially without Luna, especially without Gozo. They just don't have that, right? Is Agata, Isseko, Victor, ah none of those guys necessarily make you nervous on the attacking end. So I think that Seattle matches up well in that regard.
00:31:20
Speaker
I think set pieces is where I would focus on defensively. because obviously you have a pairing there that don't don't don't really play with each other too much too often. So we'll see where that goes. And I feel like that's the only way that I would see RSL sneaking into this game is either on a soft turnover, on a bad part of the field, or a set piece.
00:31:43
Speaker
Aside from there, I'm totally with you. shadows Seattle should dominate possession, dominate volume of creativity and opportunities, and dominate most parts of this game. One other thing that I think is worth mentioning, at least, is that both with the first team and over the last couple seasons playing with Tacoma Defiance, there is quite a bit of familiarity with particularly that sort of back seven, essentially the three center backs, the two midfielders in the wingbacks, um, apart from JP, all of those guys over the last two or three seasons have all spent time with defiance playing together. So they're like, hopefully there is that familiarity that presents itself on the field and helps to smooth some of those potential cracks.
00:32:38
Speaker
Um, Yeah, so let's talk about ah RSL a little bit more. This is a team who is currently in the final... absolutely that right? Yeah, they're they they need this result to get in. They need a win, not not a result. Well, they yeah, they're they're currently...
00:32:56
Speaker
Tied for the final playoff spot with Colorado. They have the tiebreaker on Colorado. This is their, they do have one more game after this. So theoretically they have an out. If they don't, if they don't get points in this game, they still have a chance to, to sneak in.
00:33:13
Speaker
ah But it is a big game for them. I mean, it's a, there's much more on the line for them than there is for the Sounders. ah But they are, like we said, they're, they're down some notable players. Ruben Luna being the most notable.
00:33:24
Speaker
ah Is it Carlos Gozo? Yeah, Gozo and Brian Ojeda. Brian Ojeda. Who is, you know, a guy that doesn't just help their, ah you know, he's a distributor, but he's also a guy that mid-range can beat you pretty quickly.
00:33:38
Speaker
So, yeah, that's some tough guys that they're missing. I think Brian Barra might be a guy that might have to step up in some of those set piece opportunities. ah But, yeah, but but but that's a team that, look, both Alex and Brian called them desperate.
00:33:52
Speaker
and And that's always, you know, something to be mindful when, you know, you're thinking that a team is going to come in here with just nothing to lose necessarily. Just, you know, just going to put all those eggs in this basket and try to figure it out.
00:34:02
Speaker
So what do you Goncalves has been sort of a mercurial player for them. He was signed as a designated player. He hasn't really lived up to that, that billing at all. He, he does have four goals and three assists this year.
00:34:16
Speaker
ah But he seems like someone who this is the kind of game where they'd say, look, You're getting all this money. This is where we need to step up. Right. Yeah. And he's he's interesting. i don't think there's anything incredible about him. He reminds me a little bit of um the way he plays the game to ah Costa from from Portland.
00:34:41
Speaker
Just not as. good, I would call it. But but he he does have moments of brilliance. He likes to come inside. He's a creative player. i think he sees the the field pretty well. um I think he puts a lot of key passes in through.
00:34:54
Speaker
i don't have the statistics on it, but he feels like one of those guys that probably is up there in terms key passes for this team. ah So, yeah, I mean, there are some pieces there. i think that the most interesting part of this game in terms of the roster is Jetling coming back with this team.
00:35:11
Speaker
obviously with the background he has here. And look, he's a guy that no matter where he's been here in MLS, he still plays like Jedlin, right? He gets forward. He puts good passes in. He gives you a lot of that width from the fullback position. So, you know, maybe he's a guy that...
Significant Figures: Yedlin and Keller
00:35:30
Speaker
you know has an inspired game and you got to be mindful of yeah this is deandre yedlin's second ever game as a visitor in seattle uh the first since 2022 he was here with miami uh pre messy miami notably that was the year that they were basic Yeah, they were basically ah tanking the first half of the season to make room for to make sure they could sign Messi and all his buddies after in the summer.
00:35:56
Speaker
And this was a rare win for Miami in that game. I don't people really remember. it was a ugly one zero win. I remember the the video guys from Miami getting into the the locker or into the elevator to that go down to the locker rooms.
00:36:09
Speaker
And they just had this big grin on their face like they couldn't believe they got out here with the win. ah but yeah, uh, Deandre Yedlin is, you know, an an interesting player, you know, it's, it's funny to think it's been over 10 years since he last played here.
00:36:22
Speaker
ah A long time. And it's like he has, I mean, he's a legitimate Seattle guy. He grew up here. He went to, he played for the Sounders Academy, played for the Sounders for a couple of years, but it's hard to, it doesn't necessarily feel like he's a, yeah it's like, there's a whole generation of fans that have grown up without like knowing that he was really on the team or seeing him with the team. Yeah, it is a strange, he's one of those guys who I imagine if you were not actively following the team at the time is just sort of a,
00:36:51
Speaker
almost a mythic figure. Right. Like he, he has the, the goal against T grace, him and his, his first Jimmy Traore, his first competitive game at Lumen field. If I remember correctly, you know, and he ah shines particularly brightly, but even some of that is more reflective of, and then he went to the world cup and then he,
00:37:17
Speaker
went to Tottenham and like, right. And he has somehow, I think he has like close to a hundred caps with the national team, which is wild. Cause it's like, he hasn't been in the national team for a long time at this point. Yeah.
00:37:28
Speaker
But those are different times, I guess pre golden generation, ah for the U.S. Miss national team. I don't know we have enough time, but and hopeful hopefully I don't get us too long on this because this is something that I've actually talked with a lot of fans about and some criticize me for it, some don't. But when I look at the Andrew Jettlin,
00:37:51
Speaker
Because of his tenure here and not getting a lot of the championships that others do. I don't have him in my all-time 11. I don't think, I mean, I don't think you can, to me, I think it's as easy as he just didn't play enough games here to be like. Right?
00:38:07
Speaker
And just people are like, oh, that's crazy. He's like the best player to come out of here at that position. was like, well, you know, there's a best 11 because you did X. With this team, right? he I think he was the most proud promising player. Like, you could put him on the list of, like, if you just take his whole career and you don't just look at his Sounders time, you could argue that he was among one of the more accomplished players.
00:38:30
Speaker
I just look. He had 75 caps, so he's not going to get to 100. There was a time when I thought he would certainly get to 100, but he stopped getting, he hasn't been called up for forever. ah for three, oh, for two years at this point.
00:38:43
Speaker
But whatever, this is getting beside the point. i with I'm with you. I always think it's a little weird when people include him in their best 11 because I just don't think he has a resume with the Sounders. ah You know, you there's a debate going on right now, maybe not the most heated debate, but currently you can still vote for, this is a good plug.
00:39:03
Speaker
If you are a Sounders Alliance member, you are eligible to vote for the Eternal Sounders Circle of Legends. And there are three people that are currently nominated for that. Jimmy Gabriel, Siggy Schmidt, and Casey Keller.
00:39:17
Speaker
And Jimmy Gabriel is someone who has been involved. He's nominated as a builder. He's been someone who's been involved with this team literally since the NASL era. He's very influential in terms of like kind of guiding the Sounders to where they ultimately lead. Brian talks about all the time. Yeah, Brian talks about him. He's the most important, maybe probably the most important person in terms of shaping Brian as a head coach.
00:39:39
Speaker
Siggy Schmidt was, of course, the head coach for, I believe, seven, eight years. The first eight seasons. Parts of eight seasons. Very successful. I don't think that needs a lot to be said about him. But Casey, I bring it up because Casey Keller only played here three years.
00:39:52
Speaker
But the difference between Keller and and Yedlin, to me, is that So Keller obviously has this amazing resume. he he you know At one point, he was maybe the best goalkeeper in the world. yeah I think a lot of people would sometimes forget that. He was an amazing goalkeeper. The heights of his career are maybe higher than any American ever.
00:40:11
Speaker
ah But that was not necessarily when he was here. But the thing is that when he was here, he won. He was the team. A, he was the team captain. B, they were very good. They made the playoffs all three years. They were competitive all three years.
00:40:24
Speaker
they won this They won the U.S. Open Cup all three years. He won a goalkeeper of the year. And honestly, there's ah the other element of it is that his signing, to me, may have been the most important single signing that the Sounders made 2009.
00:40:37
Speaker
I sort of sent this message of like, no, we're a real soccer team and we're bringing in this literal legend. Like this is like just to give you a little anecdote. In 2006, my wife and I went to ah we want to be in Europe during the World Cup.
00:40:51
Speaker
And the player that she fell in love with was Casey Keller. And so she sort of had this like ah love affair. relatively speaking, with... with ah Platonically. Platonically with Casey Keller. and so But that's the sort of like that's the myth that's like the the mythos that he had around him. And so bringing him into the Sounders was this very clear message of like, no, we're a real serious soccer team.
00:41:12
Speaker
I remember when I came to Seattle the first time ah when we were interviewing for her program in early 2009, they had these banners that were hanging off these buildings. And the one that we immediately recognized was like, oh shit, Casey Keller is playing here. And I think it did kind of...
00:41:27
Speaker
And then, of course, he he was the broadcaster for over a decade, a colored commentator for over a decade. And so for and I know there's been some debate as to whether or not he really belongs in this. Absolutely. I think he 100 percent belongs. I don't think it's a question. I was actually taken aback I heard a few people tell me like, oh, I don't know Keller belongs. He was the first big name that I thought the Sounders signed. He was, yeah. As someone who clearly was just starting to get into MLS when the Sounders came on to the picture. I had seen, obviously, previously where I was a casual watcher because of Valderrama, Diablo Echeverry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:42:00
Speaker
You know, and you you you follow it in a very minimal way. But when they brought in Casey Keller, was like, wow, you know, that that is one of the best in in in that position at one point in time. Right.
00:42:11
Speaker
I mean, you you obviously knew of Casey Keller before the Sounders. And I was just like, man, that that is a big, big get. I think one thing and i ah I agree. Casey Keller should be a lock for team.
00:42:26
Speaker
And sort of a parallel where I also agree. I i don't think DeAndre Yedlin is an all-time best 11 right back just because what he did with the Sounders is not enough to get him right there.
00:42:44
Speaker
He did win. He was on the 2014 team. but wasn't like the guy. no I think the parallel sort of between Casey Keller and DeAndre Yedlin is not only did Casey Keller come to the Sounders as a legend of the game, but it was also this,
00:43:06
Speaker
sort of first step to a certain degree of like the Seattle Sounders will have Seattle roots or, you know, the greater Puget sound that Casey Keller is a local guy. That is important. DeAndre Edlin in a similar way is sort of a herald of what,
00:43:26
Speaker
the next yeah decade of the Sounders is going to be of, we are going to continue to build through local roots, but local roots that come through the club that there is plenty of fair debate over whether DeAndre Yedlin is a Sounders developed guy, but he was that first wave. He was a, yeah, like the, in same way that Jordan Morris and, you know, some of these early, like the earliest Academy players are, it's like, okay, I don't know how much the Sounders can really claim as being developed, but like players, people who are involved in the Sounders did play significant roles in developing. I mean, Darren, Swatsky is ah a great example of a player of someone who was involved in the Sounders and had a huge role in developing some of these guys before he was with the Sounders. Although he was, you know a former USL player as well.
00:44:17
Speaker
Uh, But yeah, Yedlin is a very important person in the Sounders history. I just don't think he's a best 11 Sounders player. It'll be cool to see him here. Yeah. He's got a great, you know, his whole vibe is is fun.
00:44:30
Speaker
It would be, there is an interesting alternate history where if Yedlin were to have come to the Sounders now and we were this developed and MLS was where it was, seeing his trajectory and because you could see a world where he doesn't necessarily need to go to Europe right away.
00:44:47
Speaker
Right. Yeah. like Like before where it was immediate, obviously making that decision. ah But in that voting, you could vote for all three guys. You can vote for all three guys. Yeah. There's no there's no limit on who you can vote for. yeah ah And and so that's another thing I like. I think he's all three of them will get in.
00:45:04
Speaker
i just. was again, I was just surprised when I heard a few people tell him, like people that I respect saying like, I don't think I'm going to vote for Casey. And I do think that there's some element of people remember Casey almost more for his color commentating and they sort of forgotten what a good player he was.
00:45:20
Speaker
and I did too. He was a like me where, you know, he maybe sometimes he get a little bit over the top. He was controversial. I think is what people wanted him to be more of a homer than he was. And I just, I'm not going to hold that against him. Yeah, I still remember he we we had a couple of ah conversations with him in Mexico, right? That's right. In the rooftop. That was a good time. And yeah, man, the guy, he he's real. And I like that, right? I mean, you're going to call it as it is or or how you think it is. And I enjoyed it. That one guy that I had ah but Not a tough time because, again, i had heard from Brian Smith, I'm not sure about Jimmy Gabriel, but he was the only guy that I was like, I don't know. i mean, I don't have a lot of but personal interactions. I never saw him play. I'm just sort of going off of what everyone says. and Yeah, that's did exactly what I did. Enough research. and i Obviously, what I had heard from.
00:46:08
Speaker
ah Brian would have heard from ah who doesn't come around here. Another controversial guy. Oh, Alan Hinton. Alan Hinton. You know, he that's like good'll be an interesting test of this is another alllan heads gets ah nominated or even voted in. He had told me some Jimmy Gabriel stuff. ah So, yeah. But buts aside from that, you know, that's I ended up voting for all three.
00:46:28
Speaker
yeah okay well uh all right let's
Listener Appreciation and Youth Success
00:46:30
Speaker
take a break we're gonna come back and we're gonna talk ah ah zoom out a little bit talk ah ah about the u20 world cup and the role that both reed and obed are taking as well as talk a little bit about uh obed vargas winning the 22 or being put atop the list of the 2222 uh you're listening to sounder art on the no you're listening to no sony it does on the center her podcast network jeez Thank you for listening to the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network, which now includes Nosarrietes, Loving Scorchers, and The Cooler Guild. Although this podcast is free, it's only made possible through our paid subscribers.
00:47:06
Speaker
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00:47:40
Speaker
Discord is where we make things happen. Like, for real. You know the promotion the Sounders ran that offered fans the opportunity to trade in their messy jersey for a Paul Rothrock one? That originated in our community. You'll not only be the first to know about stuff, but you also have a semi-direct line to the movers and shakers at the Sounders organization. If you want to be one of the totally normal people who occupy the Sounder at Heart Discord, just become a supporter of Sounder at Heart. Anyway, thanks for listening, and go Ders.
00:48:10
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:49:10
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Adientes on the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. All right. So, ah both... Part of why the Sounders are shorthanded this week is because both Reed Baker Whiting and Obed Vargas have continued to advance in the U-20 World Cup.
00:49:25
Speaker
ah Both teams, both Mexico and the United States, are through to the quarterfinals of the U-20 World Cup, which is itself a pretty cool accomplishment that two CONCACAF nations, ah both with...
00:49:37
Speaker
Sounders players involved are through to the quarterfinals, which is I think this is the fifth straight U-20 World Cup that the U.S. has gotten this far, but they've never gotten farther than that. Is that that's correct, right? I believe that's correct.
00:49:50
Speaker
and And so that's a pretty cool accomplishment. The difference this year is that both teams have gotten here by sort of. bossing kind of traditional powers. ah The U.S. has beaten both France and Italy 3-0. Most recently, they beat Italy 3-0 in a game where, like, I didn't watch the whole thing, but everything I watched looked like they were just playing at a different level than Italy was, kind of in a similar situation as the France game, where the result ends up being a little...
00:50:17
Speaker
you know, a little kind to the you United States because of the goals came so late, but they were the better team throughout. And then similarly, Mexico had this brutal group stage where they had Brazil, Morocco, and Spain, and they ended up finishing second, but they didn't lose any games.
00:50:35
Speaker
And then they just beat the crap out of the host nation, Chile. ah What have you made of of Mexico's plan? This thing and in particular, Obed Vargas's. Mexico has got one of their ah best generations that I've seen coming up. You know, there's the Marco Fabian era that that did they have some really quality guys.
00:50:56
Speaker
But in this one, they just seem to be at ah at another level. I think that Hilbert Tomora and Montel are two guys that are going to be. Yeah, Mora seems like a, like, ah what he's 16? He's 16. I mean, he's just like the best player on the field every game he plays. It's unbelievable. He's incredible. Now,
00:51:12
Speaker
To be fair, well and I guess that's with all great players, Mexico plays for Gilberto Mora. I think Obed Vargas has been sacrificed a whole lot yes to get these guys in better positions.
00:51:24
Speaker
I feel like a lot of times Obed wants to occupy the spaces that Mora takes because he has that ability to um carry that space, right?
00:51:35
Speaker
But he sees it, and it's it's almost awkward to just watch him play Okay, I'm going get wide instead, or I'm gonna i'm just going to hold back. But you could just see his mind. That's where I was going, man. I was going to pick up the ball.
00:51:48
Speaker
ah One of the goals, I want to say, was against Spain. I'm telling you that... if If Obin Vargas was somebody else, he he might fight more for that ball because he's right there, right? So I do think that Mexico this year um has every chance. If they beat Argentina, which Argentina looks very good, the Inter-Miami kid looks looks great up there.
00:52:14
Speaker
ah They have some quality guys. If they can get through Argentina, Mexico, it's a real deal. Their center backs – They're a little bit iffy. I think defensively they have some issues um in that regard. I think when it comes to set pieces, man marking, they're just a little too aggressive at times and they get gappy.
00:52:34
Speaker
But Mexico's got a good quality team, specifically on the attacking end. i thought that not a lot of times, and maybe this is more the U20 level. and And let me add this.
00:52:45
Speaker
In South America, not a lot is put into the U20 level. tournaments for some reason it's because usually those usually your best talented players are already in europe right they're in italy they're in england they're in spain they're in germany and a lot of times they don't get to be part of that cycle you're almost going with almost your your be talented players sometimes i think it's gotten a little bit better uh but in this one i thought that uh mexico brazil usually you don't expect mexico to just go at brazil that they wouldn't
00:53:17
Speaker
To, you know, toe to toe with Brazil and and against Chile. lu Chile has been a disaster. I'll say that. I said that prior to this game, I thought that the only advantage that Chile had was that they were the home team and that carries a lot of weight. Good crowd, though.
00:53:33
Speaker
Great crowd, great atmosphere. But there's just nothing brilliant about their game. There's just no magic there at all. They barely squeezed by the first round, and and there's just no no no possession-based soccer.
00:53:46
Speaker
that It just doesn't have that Chile type of soccer. So ah Mexico, great. I think Argentina is a real parameter to see where they're going. But if they can get past Argentina, man, they could go all the way.
00:53:59
Speaker
It has been interesting to watch Obed with Mexico because – i I think all of us at some point have expressed that Obed's above this level and he's playing in this tournament sort of doing his doggies a little bit of like, he's got to do some grunt work to get his opportunity with the first team. And because this team is built around Mora and
00:54:33
Speaker
Obed is very much the water carrier in that midfield, but there's also a lot of times where you see if you pick any random point, watch Obed.
00:54:48
Speaker
In one of these U-20 games and you will see Obed make a run with the ball at his feet that we have seen him make a bunch of times with the Sounders where when he makes that run with the Sounders, he is getting support runs that are pulling players away or guys are making runs so that Obed can pick them out.
00:55:08
Speaker
And... Obed is making that run waiting for players to make those support runs and he's waiting and he's waiting and those runs don't come and there's not really anything for him to do at that point.
00:55:21
Speaker
And it's a little frustrating because like. Obed by himself just created this opportunity and everyone was like, well, I wish he'd pass it to me. And instead of like doing something for him to pass it to them, they just stood there and waited because ah the some of that is also a stylistic difference of players coming up through Mexican academies versus the way player like,
00:55:46
Speaker
There is a Mexican style that is distinct from the way the game gets played here or other places. And that's that's just a stylistic difference. but ah So if you look at Obed's stats from this tournament, they don't jump off. His VAT mob rating is not spectacular. And when you do have Mora and Montiel and... Dominguez... Yeah, there are guys who are popping statistically, but I don't think Mexico is in the quarterfinals if Obed's not there. Like, I think there is some degree yeah agree.
00:56:24
Speaker
They got some luck getting out of the group, but they also played Brazil and Spain dead even, two teams that Morocco beat pretty straightforwardly in a way that...
00:56:40
Speaker
To a certain degree, you make your own luck where they were in a position where basically a result got them through and Morocco didn't need a result. So they were able to rotate and Mexico beat them like you only get to play the team and the lineup that the other team puts out and they beat that lineup. And then, yeah, they.
00:57:01
Speaker
Smoked Chile. The crowd was great. The pop when Chile got their one goal was fantastic, but Mexico were head and shoulders better. And now I think as you get into tougher games, these are games where think Obed is going to have more opportunity to shine because there are going to be those moments for an individual player to play.
00:57:23
Speaker
make a difference. And, you know, he and Mora are very good friends. They are roommates when they play with, or when they go to new 20 camps, I think there is the potential for that chemistry and that friendship to express itself in a game. Very similar to, especially earlier in their Sounders careers, Christian rolled on and Jordan Morris, where uh,
00:57:50
Speaker
camaraderie and the chemistry. They're just going to look for each other in those moments. And when both players are that good, there's the the chance for something really special to happen in a big moment.
00:58:02
Speaker
And then the other Sounders player who's involved in this tournament is Reed Baker Whiting. He has not had nearly the size of a role that Obed has. He's only started one of the four games. Although i think he's gotten into all four games. yeah I think you only played like four minutes against Italy.
00:58:20
Speaker
and he has looked okay. I think depending on who you talk to, some... I think some people thought he was going to get a lot more minutes. I know one podcast I was listening to thought he might be a starter for the U S that has not really been the case. He's clearly sort of like the second tier.
00:58:36
Speaker
I do think on some level he's hurt a little bit ah by not having a position that he's really known for. I think he has played, all over the field, even for the U S mean, he can obviously play on either wing or as a fullback on either side, same kind of thing that he does with the sounders, the U S more generally though has looked really good. And this is going be a good test for them because Morocco, believe is who they play in the quarterfinals.
00:59:02
Speaker
Morocco has at times looked like one of the better teams in the tournament. ah but they also have, you know, they've they've also looked like a beatable team, kind of how all these U 20 tournaments look like.
00:59:12
Speaker
Uh, I, I don't know how much we want to get into the US since but Reid has not had as much of a big role, but it has been kind of a cool feather in the cap for MLS in general. ah There's a lot of MLS players involved in this tournament, and it sort of shows the work that MLS has done to help kind of bolster the the national team.
00:59:31
Speaker
Yeah. Reid did not play in the 9-1 win against New Caledonia. Right. Okay. And he came on in like the 84th against France and Italy. Right. um I think, you know, he played...
00:59:46
Speaker
the full game against South Africa, which was their one loss, right? But they were sort of in a, they had already advanced. They'd already won the group at that point. Yeah.
00:59:57
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and Reed was not the cause of that result, but he also, because they heavily rotated, i think was doing a bit more of the, the cover work rather than really being influential going forward.
01:00:17
Speaker
I think he's looked okay, but he hasn't made, you know, a really strong case to be the starter. I think he if this, you know, if he was healthy in this tournament was happening a year ago, maybe he starts, but the guys who are ahead of him at fullback on both sides are all starters for their MLS teams. And one of them is, I think Frankie Westfield is the guy's name. He's,
01:00:46
Speaker
starting on one side and he starts for the union, ah Luca Bambino who starts for came San diego is also not a locked in starter with the U S and he's like an every game starter for one of the top teams in the West.
01:01:01
Speaker
I don't think it's that surprising that Reed has not locked in a starting spot. Nolan Norris, I think is one of the other fullbacks who I believe is a starter for Dallas. like And has looked really good for the, for in this tournament, Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily any fault of reads that he's not played more, but he also hasn't done anything magical to earn himself a starting spot, but he hasn't really had the opportunity.
01:01:27
Speaker
um and the system doesn't fit him for to play at the winger position, in my opinion. And not to mention that the attacking guys on the wide ends, Gozzo being one of them who has been very good, ah and then Campbell, the Dormund kid. I mean, that there's just a lot of...
01:01:43
Speaker
talent there And I don't even know if I would play Reid on a four three three that high up the field necessarily. So, yeah, I just think that the system just doesn't quite work for him. So that's unfortunate, but at least he's there. He's, you know, battling it out.
01:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, good experience for him at the very least. ah And one of the other things that we heard earlier this week, we talked to Henry Browner, and we'll kind of loop this into the – in the discussion about Obed Vargas being – getting the top spot in the 2,222.
01:02:09
Speaker
ah Which is, I will say, it's kind of a funny thing because MLS has a Young Player of the Year award. And I guess this is just a way of sort of highlighting the depth of talent at this in this age group.
01:02:21
Speaker
But it's it is kind of ah it does It's like, given the the status of the Young Player award, it just seems so kind of maybe unnecessary at this point. It used to be... I don't even think it's sponsored. day I don't think it was even sponsored. No, not this year. Yeah, so it's like, that's even one... but it's Regardless, I don't want to make i don't want to make too much light of the...
01:02:38
Speaker
It's a cool thing, a cool honor. But we got to talk to Henry Browner about this. And one of the things he mentioned is that he and Sean Henderson went to the U-20 World Cup. They saw the whole group stage. And one of the things they took away from it was actually our youth setup stands up pretty good against some of these players. And one of the things he said is that we didn't see anyone there who was in our price range, notably,
01:03:03
Speaker
who we felt like was really an upgrade over Gomez, Hawkins, or Brunel, who are like the three kind of most age appropriate type of players that they're comparing them to in terms of bringing in prospects.
01:03:16
Speaker
And I thought that was kind of interesting that, you know, and because Browner, one of the things he said is like, we're always going look internal before we go external. Uh, And this doesn't mean that they're not going to sign a U-20, a U-22 player this ah winter, but I do think it sort of does a good job of setting the bar of what they need to clear in order to feel like it's good. to It's worth spending two or three million dollars to bring in an outside player.
01:03:41
Speaker
Yeah, and obviously there are U22 players that don't play this tournament. Right, and there's older players. That are lot better, right? And the older players, too. Older players, of course.
01:03:52
Speaker
um So let's go ahead and, because you're right about just adding that little bit, because our audience will go crazy we're making it sound like the team is not going to go out there and go find somebody.
01:04:03
Speaker
ah But it was interesting, because, you know, he brings up a good point that, you You know, there's been an investment that has paid off because we can all say that it's paid off.
01:04:14
Speaker
I always bring this up because Garth was the one who started that whole pathway into just putting a lot of money into the academy. And now you're getting players that consistently help your first team. And that sort of sustainability is as important as anything.
01:04:28
Speaker
Right. I like that they're going to look internally. ah But again, yeah, I don't think that he's saying we're not going to go out there and go find an attacker, which is the one area where maybe there hasn't been a lot of developing players for the Sounders. Right.
01:04:42
Speaker
ah That said, Obed winning this 2222 is a cool honor. ah He is the third Sounders player to have won it. Yedlin and Freddie Montero but Freddie Montero was actually the first one to win it in 2010 and for those first five or six years Maybe even longer than that. It was actually 24 or 24.
01:04:59
Speaker
So was a bigger age group ah But in the last few years where it's gotten it's been more targeted towards younger players in part because there are so many more younger players getting meaningful minutes i mean you look at that top 22 you look at that whole list and And everyone on that list played significant minutes. Reed Baker Whiting, for what it's worth, finished 23rd ahead of Kevin Sullivan, who hilariously was getting some buzz for winning it last year, right after he signed to be with Manchester City.
01:05:30
Speaker
I think there's been some like that. He had a reasonably productive season at MLS Next Pro. Just kind of an interesting little note that he has fallen. The hype around him has fallen to the point where he's like not really. People aren't trying to make it seem like he's the best young player in the league. I think there's also an element with Kevin Sullivan of last year. He was just possibility. No one voting has seen him play at all. if we're being honest and we are getting to a point where these players are,
01:06:02
Speaker
playing real roles for their clubs and the math of potential actual production.
01:06:14
Speaker
What are you doing for your team currently? Like transfer potential, all of this stuff does lean a little bit more heavily on what are you actually doing right now?
01:06:25
Speaker
And what have you done so far? And you have guys like, Freeman and Vargas who are not just... contributors, but are key players written in ink starters for good teams.
01:06:40
Speaker
And Kevin Sullivan, you know, Matt Doyle has talked about it on numerous occasions when he plays an MLS. He does not look like an MLS player, but he's 15. Like he's a child. He should not look like that. Players who look like they belong at that age are anomalies like Obed Vargas.
01:07:00
Speaker
And even he was like, he's, He's a little guy but he's got skills and he's not afraid of the moment. And those are one in a million traits to have at that age.
01:07:18
Speaker
I think it makes a little bit more sense that those rankings look the way they do this year, that Kevin Sullivan probably is still going to be a really good player, but he's not.
01:07:32
Speaker
in reality, a really good player at the MLS level yet. And that's what the voting is based on. Right. And I think, and that's what I, I mean, I kind of like about one of the things I like about this list, and I do think it does actually a good job of illustrating it is that there's just a lot of young players in this league now that are getting real minutes. Yeah.
01:07:54
Speaker
Uh, you know, There are, and that's, that's ah you know, the the young, Obed is actually one of the, I think he's the youngest player in three years to have won the the award. He's 20. So he's got potentially another two years where I believe he's got two more years left, or at least one, he'd be eligible for sure next season. I don't know when his birthday is, so he might not be eligible next ah two years from now.
01:08:15
Speaker
But it's it's, he's also a real Academy product. That's the last few years. ah The players who have been winning this thing have been ah imports, imports, And and so he's only I think he's only the fifth player to have won in the academy. A fun little note.
01:08:30
Speaker
The Sounders are one of only two teams to have produced whose academy has produced two winners of this award. DeAndre Yedlin being the other one. ah FC Dallas is the only team that has produced FC Dallas Academy is the only other one that's produced.
01:08:44
Speaker
ah multiple winners. I think they had three, ah but they've, and they've had five players overall, including current sounder. Jesus. Exactly. And the sounders are also one of two teams that have two current players who are on, who won this.
01:08:59
Speaker
Do you know who the other one is? Little quiz game here. It's a, kind of counterproductive. counterintuitive Is it Real Salt Lake? It is not. It's the Columbus crew who neither one of those players were playing for them.
01:09:12
Speaker
It's Darlington Nagby who is like the second or third winner and Diego Rossi who won it with LAFC. So kind of a What I like about this list this year is that...
01:09:25
Speaker
and man I mean, don't know if I'm going get heat for this. Being a it. Being what is it? there but Being a guy that obviously wants talent from out broad being brought into the MLS.
01:09:36
Speaker
But, you know, yeah it used to be kind of flooded by the ah Tiago Amadas and Belasco's and, you know, those players that come in. And, you know, it's great that they do that. But this year, you know, Alex Freeman, Tokamari is a guy that comes out of MLS next.
01:09:55
Speaker
Owen Wolfe, who's the guy that just being a revelation for us. And those guys are coming through the development system of MLS. And, man, I think that's... Awesome. I think that's great for the league. I think it's great for U.S. soccer in general.
01:10:09
Speaker
ah And that that's what really caught my eye this year, i aside from ah La Perla Martinez, who, you know, he's been irregular necessarily. mean, he's a good player and I get why he's there.
01:10:19
Speaker
ah but But the other guys that are playing real minutes, like you mentioned, that are real key components of their teams, they're kind of gone through the MLS developing process. And that's great. Yeah, it's ah and for the for the record, Kevin is actually 16. He just turned 16 like a week ago. Happy birthday. Happy birthday, Kevin. Don't come for us.
01:10:40
Speaker
ah But, I mean, it is kind of – it is notable that if he was like – Gilberto Mora is on the U-20 Mexican national team. If Sullivan was, you know, he he could be on the U-20 national team, and he's not.
01:10:54
Speaker
ah not to Like, look, he might be a great player. i just think I just am still amused by the idea that there are people people seriously asking if he should be in the... near the top of the list last year and it's like, no, ah he was 15 year old. I didn't even think about that. That, that you know, you got more at 16. I mean, it's more at 16 being, and i mean, we also saw more a play against the Sounders here when when, and he was a very good player. I mean, Mora is a special, special players.
01:11:22
Speaker
I mean, he's getting gent like, Genuine speculation that Barcelona might swoop him. Yeah. I mean, he's a, he's more as a phenom, a scary player for us fans that have to ah worry about facing for the next, like 20 years for the next 20 years.
01:11:40
Speaker
Like literally. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. All right. Well, on that really positive note, I don't think I have much else to say about the 2222 or anything else.
01:11:51
Speaker
Of course, you can see Nico on Pool So Sports. You can find him on Soccer Down Here. You can find him on Lobbing Scorchers. And of course, on Sounder Heart, you can always read ah Tim Foss on Sounder Heart. Thank you guys for doing this. Do you have something you want to say, in Nico? Yeah, just wanted to send a um my condolences yeah and and a message of support to Sean Henderson and Chris Henderson after the passing of their father.
01:12:21
Speaker
You know, they had been dealing with that situation. They've been very, ah you know, cautious with their dad. And, you know, we've seen Chris here ah multiple times and we just hope that they are ah together going through this difficult time. So it's a big positive message for them.
01:12:39
Speaker
Yeah. right. Well, let's get out here then. I'm Jeremiah Oshan signing off for Nos Adietes, which is part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. We'll catch you next time.
01:13:17
Speaker
Let's go at Sounders. um