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Startup Savvy: Dan Fox on Cybersecurity, AI, and Customer Magic
62 Plays4 months ago
Episode Description: In this episode of Player: Engage, Greg talks with Dan Fox, a seasoned expert in cybersecurity and the leader of the cybersecurity team at ScalePad. Dan shares his career journey, insights into building successful startups, and the importance of staying curious and adaptable in the ever-evolving tech industry. They discuss the role of AI in cybersecurity, the importance of customer experience, and practical advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Listen Here: Dan Fox - ScalePad
Timestamps & Key Takeaways:
- 00:01.25 - 01:25.08: Greg introduces Dan Fox, highlighting his impressive background in cybersecurity and his role in various successful companies, including Smarsh, Securecast, Carbonite, and Webroot.
- 09:15.91 - 09:45.14: Startup Challenges and Strategies - Dan shares his experiences in startup environments, discussing the importance of wearing multiple hats, staying adaptable, and learning from both successes and failures.
- 25:26.28 - 25:58.21: Delivering Value to Customers - Emphasizes the importance of listening to customers, solving their problems effectively, and being an advisory partner rather than just a salesperson.
- 30:48.71 - 31:37.05: Staying Curious and Lifelong Learning - Dan highlights the significance of continuous learning and curiosity, sharing examples of how he expanded his knowledge through formal courses and self-education.
- 38:02.03 - 39:37.54: Leveraging AI in Cybersecurity - Discusses the integration of AI in cybersecurity for automating tasks, improving threat detection, and enhancing customer support processes.
Key Concepts:
- Startup Environment: Dan emphasizes adaptability and versatility in startups, highlighting the need to wear multiple hats and learn from both successes and failures.
- Customer Experience: Dan underscores the importance of understanding and solving customer problems effectively. He believes in being an advisory partner to build strong, lasting relationships and trust.
- Continuous Learning: Staying curious and committed to lifelong learning is crucial. Dan shares his journey of continuous education, using formal courses and online resources to stay ahead in the tech industry.
- AI Integration: The integration of AI in cybersecurity is transforming the industry. Dan explains how AI automates tasks, enhances threat detection, and improves customer support processes, leading to greater efficiency and accuracy.
- Career Evolution: Dan’s career demonstrates the importance of being open to new opportunities and adapting to different roles. His journey from customer support to founding successful startups and leading cybersecurity teams showcases the diverse paths to success in tech.
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:08
gregp
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Player Engage podcast. Today we have an episode I'm very excited about. We are going to talk about, or we are going to talk to, Dan Fox.
Dan Fox's Cybersecurity Journey
00:00:18
gregp
He's a seasoned expert in cybersecurity. ah He started his impressive journey where I first met Dan at Smarsh. He played a pivotal role in growing the company from a small team to an industry leader with over 300 employees and $100 million dollars in revenue. leveraging Leveraging his experience, Dan founded Securecast, a SaaS-based company in security awareness, and was later acquired by Webroot. He continued to drive innovation in cybersecurity through roles at Carbonite and Webroot. In 2020, Dan co-founded ControlMap, a groundbreaking cybersecurity compliance platform that was acquired by Scalepad in 2023.
00:00:53
gregp
Now Dan leads the cybersecurity team at Scalepad. He continues to lead the charge in delivering top-notch cybersecurity service across rap various sectors. And truthfully, what excites me most about this kind this interview here with Dan is it took me a long time to realize this, but Dan was one of my first mentors I had in my career. He was the first one that hired me as my job at Smarsh, which got me a role in customer service. and got to really see what customer service was like then. And my whole life now has been dedicated to building out this customer service role at Helpshift and so on. So before I gush too much about Dan, say too many nice things about him. ah Dan, thank you
Early Career and Growth at Smarsh
00:01:29
gregp
for joining me today. Is there anything you'd like to say?
00:01:32
Dan Fox
Yeah, thanks for having me on, Greg. And your your journey has been an impressive one. I'm glad to have been a part of it from the beginning. when When you joined in, you got to see the early days of starting a software company from the ground up. You were there, I think, in the first 20. You were the very one of the very first folks coming into our New York office at the time. And yes, Marsh is now a a multi-billion dollar unicorn company. So they've done phenomenal. i've i've I left Smarsh years ago and in 2015, I think. So it's been a bit, but they've they've come a long way. Actually, to sorry, 2017 rather. um But yeah, you've you've been there from for a long time and you've then grown into where you are today. So it's happy to be on here to to join you. chat Chat about it a little bit.
00:02:20
gregp
Hey, you know, you helped open my eyes to a whole bunch of different worlds that that I didn't even know existed when I graduated college, right? But at first, as a graduate in finance, right, I along with most people probably listening had no idea what you wanted to do when you grow up, right? I know I wanted to be in tech. So I found Dan through Smarsh and Dan. introduced me to the world of customer service. You think you know what you know about technical support until you're actually put in that role and you start seeing how systems are built out. ah Before we jump too much into how kind of customer service was, let's call it almost 18 years ago now, crazy. um Let's talk about Dan, right? And cu you at Smarsh, I think you are one of the first few employees probably within the top five to 10 at Smarsh.
00:03:06
gregp
How do you step into a role of a startup? kind of What support did you have then? how how did you What was your day-to-day like back then, if you can even remember?
00:03:14
Dan Fox
Yeah, i'll I'll give you a little history even before then and then we'll jump into that um because I think really it's important to to start at the beginning. ah you know I started on on a um in a help center, on a help desk in my very first role. I was supporting real estate professionals and you know had a at the time it was one of the largest real estate companies in the San Francisco Bay Area. ah Before that, I was supporting kind of data center migrations for Yahoo and and Microsoft, actually just as a midnight shift worker moving systems. You start at the beginning, right and then the you kind of keep expanding your knowledge. What I learned and I needed to sort of bridge the gap on was understanding how these systems operated. I i got into um Active Directory and Exchange and became certified in Microsoft.
00:04:05
Dan Fox
And that's where I shifted from becoming you know more of a customer service, ah you know working with the customers to also doing the system admin. I'm still working with customers the whole time, but then I was becoming a system admin at that point. Spent a couple years running systems and then I was in a position where I could join a company like Smarsh, which had a very promising future, but I was basically the first tech employee there at Smarsh, where I was both managing the call center, the help center, helping customers directly, but then at the same time supporting the system, supporting the IT, and wearing those two hats. So I didn't just kind of you know put myself in that position. I was already kind of five years into my career by then.
00:04:47
gregp
I think you know it's the life of a startup where you're wearing many hats. And I think there's a lot of pros that come with it, as well as a lot of cons. with it The con would mostly be you're you're just stretched very thin. You're doing a lot. You're taking a lot of them. But at the same time, you get to learn a lot about yourself at that time. And you get to see what you do like and what you don't like. it And it's funny you mentioned kind of moving data centers. I remember driving with you up to Massachusetts and ripping out a data center. And and overnight, that was became a nightmare. But it's funny.
00:05:13
Dan Fox
Yeah, that was not a fun project.
00:05:16
gregp
Yeah, right. it's It's funny how you can kind of understand that stuff. And through the time at Smarsh, right you began to manage a team of customer support agents. um Back then, we were supporting people with phone and we were supporting people with email. I remember an inbox at the end of the day, we would always take a look at the inbox and see if we can leave it overnight ah and see if we can get back to some of these tickets tomorrow. Sometimes tickets would go crazy. And there was always this hair pulling event of how well are we doing in support? I know this is a silly question. It might be years too late, but was there strategies back there?
00:05:50
gregp
Was it just kind of throw a bunch of stuff against the wall because we were a startup and how we can handle handle it it? And I don't know how had to even come up with that.
00:05:56
Dan Fox
yeah Yeah, it's a good question. i mean At the time, it was just handling the customer's requests and getting back to them as quickly as possible. For the most part, it was kind of the first in, first out. you know as soon Whoever comes in, we're going to respond to as quickly as possible. We always try to zero out. the best we can. You're never really at zero, um but you have to have your priorities. and The tools got better. we We started just with a shared inbox, and then we had to go into our own kind of CRM that we built to sort of respond to tickets.
00:06:31
Dan Fox
and Then we ended up buying a CRM. Smarsh actually bought a Smarsh CRM for a hot minute.
00:06:34
gregp
Thanks.
00:06:37
Dan Fox
I think it lasted a couple of years. and then We decided, well, it's the Salesforce thing. They got it kind of figured out. um We went to Salesforce. So we went through the whole journey ah from from you know old you know the ah very beginning to the end. But the the whole process, what you need to pay attention to is the customer's journey along the way. like What's their experience like? are you Are you servicing them with what they need? And I remember being
Transition to Pre-Sales Engineering and Learning
00:07:04
Dan Fox
ah proactive was one of the number one things that we needed to work on. We were pretty good at being reactive, but the more we could document out ahead of time and like proactively service the customer, both on the technology side, like automations, but also on the ah the documentation side to get ahead of that and reduce those tickets. That was the real magic, right? That's that's what you really needed to focus in on. Reduce
00:07:30
Dan Fox
as as as far down as possible. like Think of how Apple you know services you with their iPhone. like It's almost like magic when you open it up and just walks you through all these complex tech integrations. like That's how you have to view your job.
00:07:45
gregp
You said things that, I mean, as a sales engineer for HelpShift would come right out of my mouth because we still talk about the same strategies today. How do you become proactive? How do you alert people before things happen? and It's not easy, but it's also important as a customer just to understand that stuff. and and you know what i What I loved is that as you kind of progressed at Smarsh, I remember getting a call one day from you saying, Hey, you've been post sales for a long time. We need a pre-sales engineer. And I had no idea what that was in in my life. like I don't know what a pre-sales engineer was. it You told me it was on the sales side. I'm just like, I don't want to work with sales. so Screw those guys. um But then you you understand what the role of a pre-sales engineer is, and it's supporting
00:08:28
gregp
the customer before their customer and helping align sales visions and hey, we can't always do that, but we can do this and and just setting the expectations. How did you first get involved in the role of pre-sales? Yeah, let's just start with that.
00:08:43
Dan Fox
Yeah, so that's a great question. I mean, I think being a product expert was probably where that landed. Once you know the product and the service and the customer journey well enough, you're in a very valuable place for the business because now you can answer the questions that the The same process is true on the sales side. The prospective customer is is concerned about how are you going to service me? How are how is your product going to to service my need? Now you're in a place to basically go in and present that well, and you just have to tune up those presentation skills. It is a shift. It's not exactly the same because one is reactively fixing
00:09:26
Dan Fox
a technical thing where you said hey this is broken how do i fix this or how do i configure this or how do i you know go forward the other is is seeing the whole picture and saying here is. What we can do for you and here's what we can solve for you and so that's the shift that kind of takes place but once your product expert you're kind of a domain knowledge expert you're in a great position to make that that transition.
00:09:49
gregp
You know, over the years, you've had a lot of different roles from support to co-founder to sales engineering. Was there ever a point that everything just kind of clicked and it was just like, this is what I was meant to do.
00:10:03
Dan Fox
Um... you know I don't know if there's a day where that just happens. That would be nice.
00:10:09
gregp
That would be so much easier.
00:10:13
Dan Fox
I would say the the biggest the biggest um impact there has been just staying curious. like being As you sort of are exposed to more things, I've continued for myself just being curious about each piece of the business, each piece of technology. so For instance, I had a blocker at one point where I couldn't understand how database technology worked. So I took a database course at the the local junior college in Portland and was like, okay, i mean I need to understand this. I mean, now you just go to YouTube University. You can get whatever you want or chat GPT. It'll tell you everything. It's wonderful. I love it.
00:10:51
Dan Fox
um But you you know just being being curious and understanding, like that opened my my world on the database side. And then then I had some questions about, well, how do the APIs integrate and how does the software integrate? I had some missing pieces in my knowledge and I just kind of
Founding and Selling Securecast
00:11:07
Dan Fox
kept exposing those. And the same was true in marketing. Like, okay, how do I understand how a business markets and how do they automate that marketing? or Same was true in like customer customer service. like How do we automate these things? You just stay curious and like you kind of keep going down the road. When you keep asking those questions and finding the answers, you do end up getting to a point where you're sort of ah a solid generalist, where you can you can actually feel confident to solve a business problem. A great example with with my first company, Securecast,
00:11:39
Dan Fox
That was just solving a business problem that I saw and ah shopped around for solutions and was like looking at what was out there and realized this isn't there isn't anything that great out there I could build better, I think. turned out you know it's hard It's actually harder than it looks. It is hard to build a successful business, but I got to learn a lot along the way there too.
00:12:00
gregp
You said stay curious and I think that that is a great way to put it. I think especially in the world of AI today and people are worried about AI coming into the the industry is you know the best thing you can do is be curious and investigate what AI is and understand how to use it and how to how to mold it because if you don't, and AI is going to come. right There's no way of getting away from it. It's a lesson you need to learn now or else you're going to start to get left behind. I love how you put that because that led you to founding your first company is you're you're curious on how this works. And I also love, you know, I remember, and I keep saying that, sorry.
00:12:33
gregp
But, ah you know, years ago, we had we had a bet going on and that kind of taught me to stay curious. yeah The bet was who can get exchange certified first. and And I remember, I remember it was me, you and Michael, and I just remember just starting my my ass off for this Microsoft exam and finally passing and feeling so good that I passed it.
00:12:42
Dan Fox
Oh, yeah.
00:12:52
gregp
And like, You know, I think it's fun when you work with your colleagues and you can kind of push each other because, you know, there's this friendly banter I think we all had at Smarsh at the time was like, I'm going to close more tickets than you. I'm going to do this better than you. And then eventually it's like, I don't want to answer the phone anymore. What do I need to do to stop answering the phone? And what like you kind of all push each other to raise the bar and you kind of learn so much about how The operation works and i think smarts are such a cool place to learn that because we were all young we were all hungry and smarts was a great place that they encourage that and they helped us growing there were good days and there were bad days but you know overall it was such a positive experience to be able to see everything and.
00:13:35
gregp
Anyone that's in a sort of company like that should take advantage of it because resources that companies can give you real world experiences. You can't learn that ah in a ah classroom. You can't learn that on YouTube, right? You can watch stuff about it, but you need to live it to really understand how it works.
00:13:50
Dan Fox
Absolutely. you You bring up a really good point on company culture, right? I mean, that's kind of having a good company culture. ah you know and ah Companies are there to embrace that for the most part. So you can make a change. It's not just this is up to some HR person. HR is doing the best they can. You can you can have an impact on your own team and your own group. And you probably, we did that together. Like we had our own team off-site, we had our own team get togethers both virtually and in person. We were a hybrid work environment in the early days, which was pretty great. And just having that culture to to to kind of push each other forward, but also kind of be there to celebrate and learn together um is is a really positive thing to be part of, absolutely.
00:14:37
gregp
so you So you graduate Smarsh, we'll call it, right? You start securecast. But even before so starting securecast, you had the idea because you noticed there was something missing in the market. A lot of times we talk to people that don't know that next step to take, right? Like, A, how do you know it's the right time to quit your job and start this company?
00:14:53
Dan Fox
Yeah.
00:14:57
gregp
Maybe you're doing them both parallel, but what how do you know there's the point where it's like, all right, this is the point. I have to make this jump now. It's either all or nothing. and and kind of how How does that decision get made?
00:15:09
Dan Fox
Yeah, and's so that's a great question, too. i you know it's um You have to almost ask yourself if you're in a place, if you're ready to do this. I was asked recently by someone who's just coming out of college, like, okay, how do i like I have some business ideas I want to get started. Is this the right time to do that? And you know it really depends on if you feel confident if you're in a place to succeed. I think there's a lot of value for working with companies and seeing them in their success in learning along the way because it opens up all these opportunities and all these is questions and all these business challenges you've never you were never aware of. where And you're getting paid to do it, which is awesome. Whereas if you're building your own business, you're not getting paid. You're you're paying out all the money to learn all the lessons. So learn the lessons while you're getting paid. ah But in that scenario, I felt like I had enough knowledge to basically you know start the business. there was there's
00:16:03
Dan Fox
you know Marketing, there's sales, there's there's you know standing up a the actual technical part of the business. All those pieces I felt were there and I had enough to get going. and you know what We built basically a security awareness platform that was adopted by several hundred organizations within a
Post-Acquisition Experiences and Reflections
00:16:23
Dan Fox
couple of years' time. And it was large enough at that point where we could make the decision, do we take a round of funding or do we you know get acquired at that point? um And that was kind of the fork in the road that we had to face.
00:16:35
Dan Fox
But really, I think if I go back to the beginning, it was, am I in a place to to solve this business problem? And I would have never been aware of this business problem at all had I not been working for a business in this space.
00:16:46
gregp
I've.
00:16:50
Dan Fox
I don't think I could have come up with that on my own. So you need to be in an environment to succeed.
00:16:56
gregp
Yeah, you know it's often, and I think I'm guilty at this. like You have an idea for a business, and you want to start this idea for a business, and you make up this, hey, there's this is problem in the market. But it may not be a problem. right The beauty of it is when you're at a company, you can understand that, yeah, this is a real problem, because I am facing this problem. And I spoke to other professionals in the same position. They are also having this problem. right so So by being in a professional environment, you get to kind of ah kind of absorb that and understand, yeah, this is a real issue with no solution. um What I'm curious about, though, is, you know, you just talked about it.
00:17:26
gregp
You you talked about do we take around the funding? Do we get acquired, right? And you did get acquired by, I think, Webroot, right, for secure tests. What is that conversation like?
00:17:34
Dan Fox
Yeah.
00:17:36
gregp
Do you talk with the other co-founders? Do you just kind of go based off your gut? Do you, I mean, that must be hard to give up control of your baby. And how how does that go down?
00:17:45
Dan Fox
It is and it isn't. I mean, in in the two scenarios we've been in for acquisitions, I've been in personally for acquisitions. um there's a there's Basically, you have the business and you're looking to take it to the next step. The business isn't you. right it's It's a business. It's its own thing. and it's It's going to the next step and it's going to grow. and It's going to need people. It's going to need capital. It's going to need all the things to successfully grow. and in the In the case with Securecast, we started seeing that there was a market growing in the channel, it's called, or the MSP, the the managed service provider.
00:18:21
gregp
Thank
00:18:27
Dan Fox
ah channel, which is all the outsourced IT folks. And we started building toward that, but we realized, oh man, to really accelerate, if we hook into an ecosystem where there's already 10,000 companies in that channel using that service, we can just grow like crazy just being attached to it.
00:18:41
gregp
you.
00:18:48
Dan Fox
Now, no one's going to just attach your product to their product for free. like There's got to be a win-win. That scenario was one of those things like, okay, we'll we'll go ahead and we can we can integrate and then we can um we can grow together. and it made sense the The deal made sense to be acquired at that point ah to make that all happen. and That business still exists today. It's ah it's awesome. Webroot was acquired by Carbonite. Carbonite was acquired by OpenText. Open text security awareness still up there is the same platform we built and it's now servicing where we were in hundreds. Then it went to thousands and then it went to tens of thousands of businesses.
00:19:26
Dan Fox
That same baby has grown to a full grown thing, and I could have stayed on as long as I wanted through that process, um as long as that all makes sense for everybody. so ah you know i i think it's it's a i For me, disconnecting yourself from your business is a healthy thing. I think you want to look at it like, hey, how do we make this thing grow successfully together?
00:19:48
gregp
That's awesome, you know being able to identify that if I need to grow, if this needs to grow, with me maybe you can't be a part of it. And I think that's a mature way and a great way to look at it. And it's a great way to to create that split. So now you've you've sold your first company. Congratulations. And you kind of can do whatever you want and you can stick around. You can build something else. You can go somewhere else. Like, where does your mind go after this? Is this kind of like, ah oh, the world is my oyster.
00:20:16
Dan Fox
Yeah, yeah, so I mean, there's there was more exposure there. So I i learned a lot at Smarsh over that decade that I was there almost 12 years that I was at Smarsh, but I also wasn't exposed to to a whole bunch of the executive leadership. Pieces and mergers and acquisitions and all these other things even though we smart acquired a couple of companies that i got to manage bring him in and i was on the leadership team there's just more to learn and so going into ah kind of being a co-founder expose me to a lot of other different. Challenges owning a product owning that that book of business expose me to more.
00:20:52
Dan Fox
to more business challenges. Going into a publicly traded company was really interesting to learn about how publicly traded companies operate along the way. Again, I kind of just think it keeps feeding back into the ah curiosity ah piece of more opportunities to learn, more more pieces to continue to to to learn along the way. With our particular deal, to answer your question directly, ah Both times we built in something called an earn out component where you earn out over a period of time, based on the success of the product. You get a piece of that. And you get a piece of equity in the new business that you just were acquired by so in that case I became an owner.
00:21:34
Dan Fox
ah with some shares in Webroot. I had an earn-out that was paid out in cash and shares over a three-year time span. um That was kind of awesome, honestly. like every Every year, based on our performance, we saw you know a check and a shares come in. And it just so happens that those shares were completely matured when a full acquisition took place. I could have never known that going in. But that was a ah pretty awesome outcome. Then I got to see all of that, which I never would have been exposed to had I just you know stayed in in the same role. So I guess it just changing things up is really valuable to me.
Fun Fireball Round
00:22:14
gregp
So about halfway through, we do a fireball around where I'm just going to throw some questions at you. Simple questions.
00:22:18
Dan Fox
OK.
00:22:19
gregp
Five questions. Very simple. Ready?
00:22:22
Dan Fox
OK, sure, shoot it.
00:22:24
gregp
What did you have for breakfast?
00:22:27
Dan Fox
Crepes, both sweet and savory.
00:22:28
gregp
Great.
00:22:29
Dan Fox
My wife just crushed it. I was on a um an early morning call and normally I'm part of making breakfast. It's a lot simpler than that. She made crepes. It was awesome.
00:22:39
gregp
All right, there you go, Breakfast of Champions. If you were to go to a bar, what drink are you ordering?
00:22:46
Dan Fox
Normally a hazy IPA.
00:22:49
Dan Fox
Juicy, hazy IPA is my go-to.
00:22:49
gregp
All right.
00:22:52
gregp
What is the last show you binged watched?
00:22:55
Dan Fox
Um, last show, uh, the three body problems and and the interesting one for me lately. I don't know. I've probably binged things though, to be honest. It's like binging to me is watching two or three episodes a week. So put me in the, uh, different old person camp or something.
00:23:11
gregp
Hey, that's your that you're not that old yet, Dan, don't worry.
00:23:16
Dan Fox
I don't know.
00:23:20
gregp
What up?
00:23:22
gregp
Dan has traveled a lot in his lifetime. But what is your dream vacation?
00:23:27
Dan Fox
Oh, how bad is that background noise? I don't know. Motorcycle that just went by. ah Dream vacation for me is one that I went to all my with my family.
00:23:35
gregp
You're good.
00:23:39
Dan Fox
We went to Costa Rica and Nicaragua, both the last two winters. Nicaragua, we spent two months there working remote. and from a villa that overlooked the water. $1,500 a month, by the way. you know We're not talking big money here. We're talking your rent. um So that was pretty pretty successful. We rented out our house and went lived abroad. So I think my best vacation is not like a one or two week. It's in spending a month or two and like really getting to know the culture and living there.
00:24:15
Dan Fox
So that's what I'm all about.
00:24:17
gregp
That's a tough life, Dan, but at $1,500, can't beat that. ah
00:24:21
Dan Fox
I don't know. It was good. I'll have to show you the picture someday. It's what you get for your money in other countries is mind-blowing.
00:24:29
gregp
Last question is one that may not relate to you, but it's part of the part of the podcast is, what is the last game you played?
00:24:37
Dan Fox
I was playing Pac-Man and Dr.
00:24:37
gregp
Pong.
00:24:40
Dan Fox
Mario with my son yesterday.
00:24:42
gregp
Nice, love Dr.
00:24:43
Dan Fox
Little old-school throwback.
00:24:43
gregp
Merritt.
Customer Centricity and Value
00:24:45
gregp
You know, Dr. Mario was the first game I ever played with my father. I remember growing up and it's what sparked my love of video games.
00:24:52
Dan Fox
Are you serious?
00:24:53
gregp
Yeah. Maybe maybe you just did the same.
00:24:53
Dan Fox
No way. Well, yeah, well, he's he's got one of those little multiplayer things where it's got all the games on it, all the old school arcade ones. I love i love those. Those are kind of what our go-to.
00:25:02
gregp
Nice. Nice. All right. You're off the hot seat here. Um, you were talking about how you can kind of do what you wanted. You were getting paid out, which is great. ah One thing I'm curious about is, you know, you have garnered a lot of different skill sets throughout time. Is there one skill set that you have that you love tapping into that? And maybe it's product management, maybe it's QA, maybe it's coding, maybe it's something else.
00:25:30
Dan Fox
Yeah, I think still it's um delivering value to the customer. which can be both on the post-sale and pre-sale side. and It really comes down to listening to the customer and solving their problem. so you know Just this morning, I was on a on a call with a ah fairly large organization that's split across you know seven different countries. and We're looking at our are tech stack and just being open and honest, like being in a place where I can say, okay, here's where we're going to really
00:26:02
Dan Fox
crush it for you. And here's the three things that are going to be your challenges. Are those deal breakers? like Just being open and honest, and like are we really solving the value prop that the customer needs and not just trying to sell them on something? I like being in that role where I'm more of an advisory. I'm on the customer's side. I'm the consultant for them, not just trying to sell them to hit a quote that's That's a little more painful to me. I'm happy to not have to do that at that side. and you know Honestly, it all works out. I'll say just being on the customer's side is is the place of power in any organization. Listen to them.
00:26:42
Dan Fox
you know that's I follow Jesse Cole and the Savannah Bananas. That guy's amazing. He's always all about the power of the customer. and You should guys should you should follow him too. It's like how he always looks at everything through the customer journey. That's really what you want to do. It still drives every business. It doesn't matter if it's a baseball team doing back flips or it's software.
00:27:05
gregp
Customers love when you do backflips, but ah it sounds like you're still a sales engineer at heart.
00:27:07
Dan Fox
They do.
00:27:09
gregp
I mean, you're selling the business, but I think the concept and role of a sales engineer has evolved over the years rather than just necessarily giving demos, you're doing talks, you're doing bigger things than that. In your eyes, I mean, is it still what you're doing considered in a way sales engineering? Is it something else? And have you seen that role evolve over the past 10 to 15 years that you've been in it?
Dedication to Family and Community Service
00:27:31
Dan Fox
Yeah, it's a great question. I think um viewing the role is for my role is like a more of a product owner in a way where I sort of own the product and try to deliver for what the customer needs.
00:27:38
gregp
Yeah.
00:27:44
Dan Fox
But that does mean I end up in a sales engineering role and I train the sales engineers to demo successfully. I train the support team on how to answer the question successfully And at the end of the day, it's rolling up to you know the success and failure rolls up to myself, in um my co-founder. He's the product manager, which I was the product manager at Webroot. In that sense, they did not have a product owner and a product manager separate.
00:28:13
gregp
you
00:28:14
Dan Fox
ah The differences of product manager tends to be the more technical driven manage all the software side and get all the releases out. The product owner is more of someone who is managing the business requirements. And then that's how Halab and I split up our functions. He took the technical, I take the customer. And so that's how we split up and own those two pieces.
00:28:36
gregp
When you look back at everything, right you know I love how you mentioned customer is still kind of your your driving function. I think, again, maybe it's because of the role we all had at Smarsh, but I like to look at it the same way. I always like to say, you know yeah if I was a customer, I wouldn't want to have to deal with this. I want to make sure I'm in the right mood. But i mean when you look at kind of your journey so far and what you've learned so far, is there anything that you know that This is a bad question. Maybe I don't want to word it like this, but what what are what are the the top lessons learned that that that you think are important? Do you have pillars of some sort that you you look into like, hey, this is what's important to me or this is what's important to me?
00:29:18
Dan Fox
Yeah, I think for me, you know, my driving force is a couple things. I mean, one, it's my family is probably one of the main driving forces, but why I'm still doing the work I'm doing is, is, is it useful out there? Am I, am I serving my community well? And in this, I've kind of landed in cybersecurity. So I kind of took, I went through it and then kind of veered off into cybersecurity and then went deeper and deeper into that. Now um what I'm doing is I'm solving for cybersecurity compliance and helping small businesses achieve their cybersecurity compliance goals. And to me, it this is a way that that organizations can secure themselves and ideally protect themselves from hackers coming from you know all kinds of different malicious actors, whether it's overseas or just somebody accidentally
00:30:13
Dan Fox
you know revealing the customer, the company's PII data or whatever, this protected data, just trying to protect um organizations and ultimately that's protecting jobs and you know ideally you know servicing some good for folks. So that's kind of,
Customer Success and Service Insights
00:30:30
Dan Fox
for me, the the driving factor is just, am I using my time well to service the community? And in this sense, I'm actually feel like I'm protecting businesses protecting people's jobs, protecting our nation. It's become a national goal is protecting our businesses. I'm aligning with that.
00:30:52
gregp
It's crazy and awesome. and And you mentioned earlier in the podcast that the concept of staying curious and you know, there's a lot of places you can learn information ah more so than there were back in the day when when we were doing it. But where do you Dan, where do you get your latest kind of news on what's going on in the industry?
00:31:10
Dan Fox
I have so much coming at me. um So i I follow some of the top tier thought leadership pieces out there. in In my world, that would be like the CISO world, the security officer world. So there's a lot of news. kind of primary sources there. If you were to look up, Hey, what's your, what's your, what's my top five or top 10, um, news sources for your industry, you will get a response back.
00:31:40
Dan Fox
And so following a couple of those is one, I actually do presentations every week and I cover sort of what the top pieces are. And I pull it from a number of those different sources, but also just customer demand. I have requests for, from customers over and over again for all these different features, functions, frameworks,
00:31:57
gregp
Thanks.
00:31:59
Dan Fox
how to support you know this one new thing in Iceland. like If it's a one-off thing, and and it's like this doesn't make a lot of sense for us to do, it won't make sense. But if the people in Iceland are like, no, no, we're aligned with the EU, this is a bigger thing. like Here, let's put all these pieces together, and there's this one thing I'm looking at, we're calling this two. Oh yeah, this makes a lot of sense. There's like a deadline. We got to get this done. you know When I reach out to my customer base, I get the response back. Oh yeah, there's 20 people that need this thing. That's where it's like, okay, there's there's time to put onto that. I wasn't even aware of NIST2 until it was brought up to me by a customer. So those are probably two sources ah for me is paying attention to what the customer needs, but also paying attention to industry news out there.
00:32:42
gregp
It's interesting. you I would say it's funny because in that help shift world, right? One of the things we push our customers to do is always ask for feedback from your customers, right? Even if you're launching a game for the first time, the first thing you should do is be get getting and feedback from customers because you fall in love with your baby. You build this game or you build this product or this feature that you love and you think it's right. But if you're not listening to the people who are using it, the people who are playing it, you're not going to necessarily build the product that that is right for the audience. ah And yes, you don't have to listen to every piece of information. You don't have to take every piece of feedback, but when you start collecting that feedback and you can organize it, you can make much more educated decisions. And it's also a great way to just create a community of some sorts, right? You're listening to feedback, you're providing that feedback. And I think that's part of where where this whole customer support world is going, listening to that feedback from people and making the appropriate changes based on what you hear.
00:33:35
Dan Fox
Yeah, I want to share a story with that for a moment, if you don't mind. So if you're familiar with Gainsight, Gainsight is kind of a leader in customer success. They've sort of led the term, coined it. They have a ah ah conference ah but that is sort of the the thought leadership and customer success, something to pay attention to. But where that came from, Nick Mehta is the founder. He's awesome to follow. You should follow him on LinkedIn because he's hilarious and does all kinds of funny like rap videos and stuff. ah But apart from that, he was the the CEO of a competitor of Smarsh for a few years.
00:34:13
Dan Fox
And he was there basically to bring the value up of the business and and turn that over and and sell the business. And the way you bring up about the value in a business is what? You have to sell more customers, but also the more customers you put in, you can't be having them leaking out the bottom and canceling. You've got to retain. You've got to have retention. And so that's the whole picture of customer success is retention, right? Onboarding them successfully and making sure that they feel serviced well and engaged. He was getting crushed by Smarsh. ah The company was live office.
00:34:47
Dan Fox
Smarsh was going after the customers pretty hard because we had a great reputation. We we figured out all the pieces on how to onboard a live office customer well.
00:34:54
gregp
Bye.
00:34:57
Dan Fox
And he was just seeing like, I'm throwing in all these new customers, but all these other customers going out to Smarsh, like what's the problem? he He completely shifted over his focus less to the sales marketing where most CEOs pay attention and more to the customer success, which didn't even exist or the coin the phrase wasn't even coined back then to pay attention to how he can prevent Smarsh from taking their business. So we were a big part of actually creating this this whole new, you know if you if you will, industry because he saw how much that impacted the valuation. And he went from that journey. He ended up exiting live office to Symantec and Smarsh actually bought a piece of that business back in the day. This is all disclosed publicly. I'm not sharing any industry secrets or anything. But um from there, he went he moved up to Silicon Valley from l LA and basically like
00:35:45
Dan Fox
went into all the private equity firms and all the VCs and was like, guys, this is something you need to pay attention to. We've got to have a solution. And I've got a framework. And so we took all that and built software on it. And you know when you're saying, hey, get customer feedback, all those automated tools to do all of that is driven really from that problem that we realized, which is customer retention is key.
00:36:10
gregp
Yeah, I remember reading, I i read the book of Tony Whatever from Zappos, right? And that was kind of like that first experience. like Zappos had that amazing customer support experience that no matter what would happen, then Chewy also did something similar.
00:36:16
Dan Fox
oh yeah
00:36:24
gregp
And it shows you that people remember good customer service. They'll come back. They'll be willing to spend a little bit more. They'll have a little more leniency for when things get screwed up if you have a good customer experience, if you provide good proactive support. ah
AI’s Role in Cybersecurity and Future Speculations
00:36:37
gregp
And I still think to this day it goes overlooked that it's worth investing a little bit of money into your experience because your experience is almost the face of your business for your current customers.
00:36:42
Dan Fox
Oh yeah.
00:36:47
gregp
And you don't want to lose customers. You want to keep bringing customers in, right? And it's funny to hear the story about Nick. I know all about Nick, but I didn't realize that they were leaking out the bottom. it And it was our experience that people were were sold on. at Smarsh. And it's just funny, because Gainsight is a powerhouse, and it's awesome to see that. and And I know we had a few people from Smarsh go to Gainsight, and they have that same thing.
00:37:07
Dan Fox
Yeah.
00:37:08
gregp
And so ah you know, it's funny, again, we're in different industries, Dan, you're in cybersecurity, I'm in gaming, right? But like, the same principles exist, you don't you want to have customer retention, you want to acquire new customers for cheap, you want to keep customer satisfaction high, right? Like, these metrics translate well strategies translate well, it's just the tech that we're using that might be different or the terminology that we're actually selling it might be different. But the truth is the strategies across these industry don't differ too much.
00:37:36
Dan Fox
It's true. yeah We all have the same goal, which is servicing servicing our customer, doing it effectively, as efficiently as possible. um i mean there is There is definitely the operational side of the house. right like There is a cost center to servicing customers. you if you can If you can improve that process the best you can and also still come out where the customer is a raving fan, then that's the win.
00:37:56
gregp
them.
00:38:03
Dan Fox
That's what every business is going for.
00:38:05
gregp
So the other day, you posted ah a video online of you using chat GPT as an example to show how you could build out a knowledge base. And it really hit home for me because people use our knowledge. they They build up knowledge bases on help shift. And so it's always just questions come to us like, what should I put in there? How should I do this? And you literally just took a screenshot. You threw it in there. You said, describe what you see here. And it it knew all all the acronyms. It knew all the other stuff that it's fascinating.
00:38:28
Dan Fox
Yeah.
00:38:29
gregp
It's just a great strategy to do that. So How are you leveraging AI, whether it be for work or for fun these days, and how do you see it making an impact in the industry?
00:38:39
Dan Fox
Oh, it's it's huge. it's I'm using it for for a lot of things. So for a great example, I'm on a team call and we're brainstorming and I will literally just take everything that everyone's saying and just put it in the chat GPT and come out and then pop it in. Like here here's what I got back and I'm trying not to claim it as my own, but it's like and it's like better than anything that we all can come up with. I mean, that just tells you the power ah of what's there. It still needs an operator. Like we still need a person to sort of like mediate this.
00:39:12
gregp
Thank
00:39:12
Dan Fox
ah you know leverage the value back to to everyone. But that's um you know an example of taking a screenshot and putting it up there and saying, hey, you could say act as a technical writer and describe these things, but focus in on these three points. And then you can then take that feedback and then kind of clean it up and clean it up again. I mean, it's amazing. ah We even just used AI a couple hours ago on a webinar to pick our the winners.
00:39:41
gregp
you.
00:39:42
Dan Fox
you know you Back in the day when you wanted to pick a winner of ah like out of a thousand people that were on the webinar, you'd have to load it into a script and like automate the picking, or you'd just have to like pick a number, or sometimes it'd just be somebody in the back who's like picking a name. You're like, oh, I like that name. Literally, we could just go chat GPT, pick me a random number between one and 850, give me three numbers and it'll go, here we go. That used to be hard. It's not hard and everything's getting easier. so um yeah Whatever you can think of to use it for, it's pretty impressive. and Now that ah I was just following RSA, which is the big security conference, and where this is being implemented is like automating the the looking across all the threat intelligence and seeing where the patching is missing. Things that we had to create a lot of scripts for now, we can automate that and then find
00:40:33
Dan Fox
where we have holes that's being leveraged. ah Integrating into ticketing systems. So I imagine this this applies to you, but being able to say summarize this customer's three ticket or summarize all the the ticket history of this customer and give me a summary of are they happy?
00:40:45
gregp
Bye.
00:40:50
Dan Fox
Like what's happening? You can do that now in ticketing systems. Like that's awesome. So ah you know keep where you want to use it. It's it's pretty cool.
00:41:01
gregp
I think we're on the horizon of a lot of cool enterprises pushing out tools with AI. And yeah, we started dabbling with it. you know There's like the Gardner hype cycle. And I think we're at the top of the hype cycle. And I think we're going to start to see some mature products come out. And it's going to be some crazy stuff. I think it's i mean, in the world of CRM, I'm going to see what they build out with CRMs and just throwing unstructured data in there.
00:41:19
Dan Fox
Yeah.
00:41:23
gregp
Again, I remember to SmarshJ isn't even here, right? We we use Salesforce. and clunky to use tool. It's hard to find structured data. But once you can start making sense of unstructured data, I feel like the power is going to be crazy on what you can do with it.
00:41:39
Dan Fox
It's already, yeah, it's I'm already seeing it. i was and Our conference that I was at last week, Microsoft's investing heavily into this. And they're basically seeing that they can take all of, across all the systems and all the data, automate the configurations, things that used to you see, you have to manually script out, AI will pick up and and suggest for you. And then the next step is allowing it to automatically update those things for you. um And then taking whatever data input, it's AI is so good at taking any data and then translating it into what you want to see and say, I want to take you know a year's worth of support tickets and and summarize it for me.
00:42:19
Dan Fox
in one page or summarize it for me in ah in a paragraph. like That's rad. That's ra but's so cool that you can you could now do that. and Microsoft's investing heavy. ah That's going to be the theme of their year. they the The head of their corporate division came up on our stage and was presenting like their whole strategy around it. and as Basically, three quarters of their attention is on AI integration right now. so um
00:42:44
gregp
it nuts
00:42:46
Dan Fox
ah RSA, I saw a stat that said that, well, so two stats that are really cool.
00:42:46
gregp
i'm
00:42:51
Dan Fox
The chat GPT reached a million users in under two months. And then the iPhone, like it took like like six years and then the internet, it took like 15 years. Like this is like the speed at which everything's happening is crazy. But right now there's only like 6,000 SAS integrations for AI.
00:43:05
gregp
It's
00:43:10
Dan Fox
Well, this is as of two months ago.
00:43:11
gregp
nuts.
00:43:12
Dan Fox
For now, it could be like 10,000. I don't know. But the expectation is it will be a million by the end of the year.
00:43:18
gregp
It's crazy. It's awesome. ah I'm excited to see where it goes. and I mean, for your business and cybersecurity, right? I mean, like just imagine you're like Scrooge McDuck money in your eyes. Like there's gonna be a lot of ah lot of need for security with the the future of AI, right? Obviously, a lot of companies are already saying, hey, don't use chat GPT just because it's not private.
00:43:34
Dan Fox
Yeah.
00:43:38
gregp
And it makes sense, right? I know Microsoft's co-pilot does have a private instance, but like, This can be a lot of ah lot of weird things going on with AI, but a lot of cool stuff as well.
00:43:50
Dan Fox
Yeah, well, there's already frameworks that they had to be very quick, the the governing bodies out there. So NIST is one of the main governing bodies for cybersecurity and then ISO is the European equivalent and they already rolled out AI best practices as of last month because they had to, the adoption is so fast.
00:44:00
gregp
Yeah, but how they know already? It's evolving so quick.
Career Achievements and Personal Reflections
00:44:14
Dan Fox
Well, they they write it like, for example, the the same principles apply, which is like security. Like you have to secure the data. Still, you have to think about where is this data going? it's you You gave it a great example between co-pilot and chat GPT. Is this protected data? You need me need to decide, am I putting protected data in? Yes or no. You need to decide what you're doing with that.
00:44:38
gregp
So we're coming up on time here, Dan, but you've accomplished a lot in your career from, again, customer support, moving data centers, starting a company, selling a company, starting a company, selling a company. um I know at at your heart, family is one of the most important things to you. You've guys moved all around. You've had great family experiences. but where Where do you see your next steps? Are you going? I mean, I know it's probably hard to define that, especially at the level you are, but but where do you see yourself going from here?
00:45:08
Dan Fox
huh That's a good question. I have to ask myself that pretty regularly because I'm at the the the kind of getting to the end of the the cycle where I can decide where the next step would be with Control Map. We merged it into a company called Scalepad. um we had When you do that, it's not like it's just done. like you there' is there's Think of the process of when you onboard a customer, right? You have to like train the sales people. You got to train the support people. yeah I got to go hire some people to make it all successful, like you to stand up. We're in a place now where it's standing on its own two feet and it's succeeding.
00:45:44
Dan Fox
And so like there's some question there, like, do we, are we going to dive deeper and acquire more security products? And like, do I want to keep doing that? um So I want to keep going down this MSP, kind of the small business managed service providers and educating them on the security, which is what I'm kind of doing now. And I get a kick out of, you know, those are the things where it's like, that's where my track is. I also could go back and become a practitioner. And if I'm, you know, interested in maybe being a CISO for a company, I can see that. ah But what i what's driving my decision right now is like, am I getting enough time with my kids? It's summer. like um I want to make sure that I have the time to spend with them and go do things. I want to be able to take days off, which my current role allows me to do. And so that's that's a win. like ah for For this year, I'm very happy with where that all is.
00:46:35
Dan Fox
But I think family does drive a lot of that for me and that the age that my kids are and where I'm at.
00:46:42
gregp
Years ago at Smarsh, you decided to focus on security. And at the time, it may have been one of the best bets you've made, because since then, cybersecurity has been paramount at any company in any vertical, no matter what. But are there ever days you look back and say, I wish I went more down this path, or I regret not doing more of this before getting into here?
00:47:02
Dan Fox
um I think yeah i think i would have I would have liked to have been able to ah explore you know more business courses earlier on, which you can, again, go do with YouTube University today. But understanding understanding bits of business, like Y Combinator does a really good job of understanding how to grow a business and how VCs look at businesses. And I would love to go be part of a Y Combinator ah someday or or a different version, like these exist in your own hometowns too. So you don't have to necessarily be in Silicon Valley. You can be in in wherever you are and and do these. the Being in one of those would be a pretty cool experience. And I guess other other regrets, like ah I think selling selling Apple stock and selling Tesla stock too soon would probably be on some regret list there. Hold on to the hold hoier that Nvidia stock. Maybe, I don't know, I think Nvidia is for you.
00:48:02
Dan Fox
over value, but it's just like, you know, selling too soon has probably been a problem that I've always had.
00:48:09
gregp
Okay, you know, don't say that about Nvidia. We're all hoping that the sky is the limit here.
00:48:14
Dan Fox
i love for nviia fair enough Well, it is at the moment.
00:48:14
gregp
um
00:48:17
Dan Fox
It's going nuts.
00:48:19
gregp
um Anything else you want to just talk about or share, Dan?
00:48:24
Dan Fox
um
Networking and Relationship Building
00:48:26
Dan Fox
I think just, I think appreciating the the journey that I'll just kind of make it personal with the two of us here together. like this like your career journey in your 20s and your 30s I'm now i in my 40s you know are so valuable that the the relationships that you make um maintaining those relationships over time being able to learn along the way from each other I mean we we got to
00:48:57
Dan Fox
yeah We had to be in the trenches dealing with with challenges neither of us have ever faced before. It's like fighting a war together. So you end up becoming kind of like ah like blood brothers after a while. ah Just appreciating that journey and not not wishing you were somewhere else. like Just like ah appreciate it for what it is. Learn. embrace the relationships and grow from there. I mean, I don't think either of us would say we want to go back to Smarsh and be on the help desk together, right?
00:49:26
gregp
i You know, there were some of the best days and worst days of my life, right?
00:49:27
Dan Fox
Probably not.
00:49:30
gregp
I mean, being being that first line of support, kudos to anyone that's currently in that role. And luckily, with certain roles, it's less phone these days, we had to walk like 80 year old people through how to set up Outlook, which is not a fun process to do.
00:49:42
Dan Fox
Oh, my God.
00:49:43
gregp
But you know, at the end of the day, one of my favorite times, I'll i'll always have Dan, are we were in Portland, we go to life of Riley, we would get a lot of drinks, we would play darts, we would play shuffleboard. And you know what, it was a great opportunity as us as a support team to just collectively complain, you know, environment that was our own. And it was just all right, this is a great way and a healthy way for a company to operate because at work, we were very focused, we were dedicated. But It's about the good times. you know you You're in those trenches with your peers. Those peers are the ones you should be sharing those stories with. And and here we are again, like 14 years later, Dan. like I'm so excited I still get to connect and talk with you because I do look at you as a mentor. It's funny, I always have these people that talk about mentors, mentors, mentors. I'm like, how do you even ask for a mentor? And I realize, you know what? Over time, I've always listened to you, and I loved your story, and I loved everything that you've done. and it And you truly have been a mentor to me. So I thank you for that. You've helped open my eyes to the different
00:50:36
Dan Fox
Thanks.
00:50:36
gregp
things that exist in this world, not just customer support and sales engineering. We talked real estate, we talked stocks, we talked everything. and It's just, I thank you for everything that you did and and I do appreciate these types of relationships because again, we are peers and the same people who are out there today with their peers enjoy these moments. They're going to suck, but they're also going to be awesome and they're going to have great stories to tell from it one day.
00:50:57
Dan Fox
Yeah, absolutely. Growth happens in pain. I hate to say it, but that is that is the truth. you You're kind of forced to grow in those painful moments, but there's a lot of good moments to to be there too. So I think something to take away for folks too is is don't avoid that that office happy hour you know experience. Don't avoid that conference that you're invited into and be like, ah, I'd rather just be in home Netflixing. You will never look back and remember the weekend you had Netflixing, you know you will you will remember that time you went out to that that big that big customer party and you were you know representing your company or whatever. Those are what you're going to remember. You're going to remember those experiences of going out with your team.
00:51:38
Dan Fox
so
00:51:38
gregp
And now, not only that, it's going to shape your future.
00:51:39
Dan Fox
ah
00:51:40
gregp
I mean, if you were to ask young me what I would be doing, right? I came from customer support. I was introverted. I didn't think I'd be hosting a podcast here talking about video games to people. And it's just crazy that the detours I can take on your life are how one thing can lead to another. So I love that point you made. like
Closing Remarks
00:51:56
gregp
you might have to skip a happy hour here and there. right But like just go bond. You might not be a drinker. Don't drink. Just go hang out. Go get a bite to eat.
00:52:03
Dan Fox
Yeah.
00:52:04
gregp
like these These moments, especially post-COVID where some people are hybrid, some people aren't. Taking any experience you can get when it's in person because this is how you build relationships, this is how you grow it, and keep networking. right Even if you left the company five, 10, 15 years later, just reach out.
00:52:18
Dan Fox
yeah Yeah, absolutely.
00:52:21
gregp
People aren't going to be offended that you reached out. And I think that's the best way you can continue to grow.
00:52:27
Dan Fox
Make connections. Jimmy Douglas, a good friend of both of ours from work work years is there, He became one of the head, the leaders of Tesla for their used car division. And he would always end up, end the end is his meetings with like, Hey, peace out everybody. He's just something memorable. And then everyone would know he's the guy like, that's like, you know, over the top little crazy stuff. Like whatever you, whatever you're you're comfortable with, you know, make connections, I guess that's, that's own it.
00:52:55
gregp
Own it.
00:52:57
Dan Fox
That's right. I'll give a little shout out to Jimmy.
00:52:58
gregp
what Dan, thank you again for your time. Everything about this podcast.
00:53:02
Dan Fox
Yep.
00:53:03
gregp
Thank you so much for being a part of it. You want to just let people know where they can find you. Yeah.
00:53:08
Dan Fox
ah I don't know, a classic support answer is like, reach me at support. ah You can find me on LinkedIn. It's probably the the easiest spot to find me.
00:53:20
gregp
we'll have yeah like and stays with you We'll have information about Dan as well as Control Map and Scalepad on our Player Engage website.
00:53:21
Dan Fox
I'm i'm with ah wi Control Map and Scalepad today, but my LinkedIn stays with me. ye
00:53:35
gregp
And we'll tweet about it. Again, dan Dan, thank you so much for your time today. Enjoy the rest of your day.
00:53:41
Dan Fox
Yeah, thanks. Thanks, everybody.