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How Ayla Derrick Built a Junior-Led Game Studio and Launched Plantasia
45 Plays3 days ago
Guest: Ayla Derrick, Founder & Creative Director at Cave Bear Games
️ Host: Greg Posner
🔹 Episode Summary:
What happens when a former teacher with no game dev background builds a studio of junior developers and releases a cozy solarpunk game on Steam? You get Plantasia — a passion-driven project built on heart, hustle, and clear values.
Greg sits down with Ayla Derrick to talk about the origin of Cave Bear Games, the lessons learned from launching on Steam, and the importance of leading with empathy in the indie space.
🔑 Key Topics & Timestamps:
[00:02:00] From Teacher to Game Developer: Ayla’s Unlikely Start
Discover how Ayla Derrick pivoted from teaching to game dev and built a successful studio with no prior experience.
[00:07:00] Building a Studio of Juniors — and Making It Work
Learn how a team of junior developers created a game on Steam under Ayla’s leadership, proving that passion beats pedigree.
[00:13:00] Designing Plantasia for the Bottom Third of Your Screen
Explore the design of Plantasia, a solarpunk idle game intentionally built to sit on the bottom of your screen.
[00:20:00] Going Viral, Going Live: The Early Access Launch Story
Hear the inside story of how Cave Bear’s Plantasia launched on Steam after a viral moment turned their studio real.
[00:27:00] Leadership by Teaching: Why Studio Culture Matters
Discover how Ayla applies classroom leadership to studio culture and why it keeps her team motivated and growing.
🗣️ Quotes:
“We didn’t mean to become a studio. We just went viral, and suddenly we had to be one.”
“The pillars were communication, education, and passion. That’s what kept us together.”
🔗 Links:
- Cave Bear Games
- Wishlist Plantasia on Steam
- Ayla on LinkedIn
Recommended
Transcript
Ayla Derrick's Journey from Education to Gaming
00:00:00
Speaker
Today we have a really special episode. We're talking with the founder of Cave Bear Games, Ayla Derrick. She has a really cool background. She came from the education world and decided to start her own gaming studio. She found a bunch of junior developers to help her build this portfolio project. And we talk about how she gets started, how she learns about the gaming industry, how she built the community up, how she gives back to the community.
00:00:20
Speaker
It's really an episode that's full of great insights to help really any indie game or anyone in gaming grow. Ayla's full of great content, so this is a really fun episode. Let us know what you think. are you Have you played the Cave of Bear games? Do you know Plantasia? Do you follow it? If you haven't, check it out, but we hope you enjoy this episode.
Challenges and Feedback in Game Development
00:00:41
Speaker
Good morning, good afternoon. Welcome to Player Driven, Greg here. Today, we are joined by Ayla Derrick. She is the founder of Cave Bear Games, a studio made up entirely of junior developers built from the ground up with heart, hustle, and a lot of vision, which we're going to hear about today.
00:00:58
Speaker
Ayla's background is in education, not game dev, which is something I love to talk about and learn more about. And it didn't stop her from building a team and a studio and this whole passion project and bringing Plantasia, her game to life.
00:01:10
Speaker
I'm really excited about the entire conversation and learning how she did it. ah Before we do jump in, Ayla, thank you so much for joining us today. How are you? Hi Greg, I'm doing so well, really, really busy.
00:01:22
Speaker
um Obviously our game recently launched into early access and so we're still actively developing for final release. And I got a bunch of other stuff going on just everywhere in life. ah But super happy to be here, really happy to talk about what we did, how what went right, what didn't.
00:01:37
Speaker
And um I think more people can do stuff like this if they want. So um I wanna kind of share the knowledge. Yeah. And you know what? It's funny that you don't have a game dev background, but here you are Your game just launched right into early access, like you talked about. And and we're going to get more into it, but I'm really curious. You know, it's been maybe like three-ish weeks, right?
00:01:58
Speaker
What's the pulse check? like what What are those daily things that you're looking into at Steam, measuring, monitoring, or maybe it's nothing right now? You know, if I remember to look, I will look. Some days I definitely forget ah because, you know, it's just going well. I'm not, you know, hyper focused on our stats or anything. i think we have already exceeded everyone's expectations, including my own.
00:02:18
Speaker
ah So, yeah, I mean, when I go on Steamworks, you know, the back end of Steam, I look at how many wishlists we have. We've grown about 600 wishlists since we started. So now we have around 2,600.
00:02:30
Speaker
Um, we have sold almost 250 copies. I think it's been a couple days since I checked. So maybe I'll do that. Uh, so about 260, 250 Um, um I mean, that's kind of just what I look at. I look at the discussions. We have a very like some discussion posts that people have done and I will respond to those as the founder. And usually it's just like bugs and stuff. And I'm like, yeah, we're
Building a Studio and Community
00:02:52
Speaker
working on it.
00:02:52
Speaker
ah And like the reviews as well, I also look it just because i I like to see the reviews. Thankfully, they are all overwhelming overwhelmingly positive. We have 20 reviews now. um Yeah, it's just been really good. The response has been really good and the game works as intended, which is what I was very nervous about.
00:03:10
Speaker
So, ah yeah, it's been overall a good time. Nothing. and don't think we've had any really truly negative reviews ah or or comments at all. Like, you know, besides like bugs, but everyone's very respectful and very like, I'm sure you're working on it. Just here it is, you know, helpful.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah. I know this is a weird question, but do you kind of want to hear a negative review just so you can start to say, hey what am I not seeing here or is the feedback enough? No, the feedback is really good. I mean, the feedback is very respectful, very in-depth. I mean, I think that helps that most of our audience is devs from like LinkedIn, and so they know how to give like feedback, which is helpful. um Honestly, like the only kind of even remotely negative stuff we've gotten is when people don't understand the whole bottom of the screen thing.
00:03:55
Speaker
So our game it sits on the bottom third of your computer screen instead of taking up your entire monitor because it's an idle game and it's meant to be played while you are doing other things like work or school. And ah some people don't realize that despite all of our promotional material.
00:04:10
Speaker
um And they'll be like, the game is bugged at the bottom of my screen. And I'm like, brother, like just read. and But I get it. It's fine. It's fine. And I just tell them, yeah, it's actually supposed to be like that.
00:04:21
Speaker
But it is. It's a learning curve. um It's hard to to understand that it's a new type of genre. um So, you know, I'm nice. But sometimes in the back of my head, I'm like. Just read the thing. just Just watch one video. That's all you need to do. That's it.
00:04:37
Speaker
You found the game. Just figure that out. um I want to talk about that in a little bit. right I think the lower third of the game is such a unique take on a PC type of game. And and I love that it's not genre bending, but it's a different way to look at it. But and let's talk about let's talk about you first. right you You are not a game dev. You were in education prior to this.
00:05:00
Speaker
were you a gamer at some point? Why why go into gaming? Yeah, I mean, I've always been a gamer. um But I think as a woman, I didn't really consider myself too much of a gamer. You know, i played things like The Sims um and,
Leadership and Team Dynamics
00:05:16
Speaker
you know, the cozy girl games, Nintendogs on the DS. i was a big DS girl when I was a kid.
00:05:22
Speaker
um Whereas I had brothers who were playing Halo and and Star Wars and and League and all those games that were actual games or whatever. um So, you know, I didn't, I never encountered any actual like discrimination ah for being a woman in games or as a gamer, but it was more of those like really casual kind of baked in things of like, yeah, well, your game isn't really a game kind of thing.
00:05:47
Speaker
um And so I never really considered myself a real gamer. i was more of just like, yeah, I like games, but I'm a very casual gamer. and That's what I call myself. It's very casual. I'm not trying to be super competitive and be a world ranking player.
00:06:01
Speaker
I don't play like shooters or or like competitive games like Apex or, or you know, League. um So I just play I just play have fun. Right. And so that, too, I never really kept up with the gaming industry at all.
00:06:14
Speaker
i I don't know. I didn't know. I'm only learning now. I didn't know anything about devs or publishers. I never paid attention to credits like or anything like that. didn't care. ah Sometimes I just wanted to play a game and sometimes I just didn't know what that game was called because I never paid attention to to those things. It just was something that I had.
00:06:35
Speaker
Um, But yeah, i was also one of those people who like wanted to work at GameStop as a teenager, like really, really wanted to because I really did like games. ah But I always told myself, no, you actually like don't know enough about games to actually work at GameStop because they have to know stuff. And like, you know, we go to GameStop and we ask for recommendations and they know what to tell us.
00:06:56
Speaker
And so i I talked myself out of working at GameStop as a teenager. And now I regret it. Like, I really regret it. I wish I worked at GameStop. It's such a classic, like, origin story. And I want it so bad.
00:07:10
Speaker
honestly would still work at GameStop, to be real. ah But now they're not nearly as cool as they used to be. It's fine. um But yeah, so and very casual gamer experience. And so, yeah, and ending ah ending up here a dev, as a founder, as a creative
Marketing and Launching on Steam
00:07:26
Speaker
director is not really what I expected at all, but I'm very happy to have gotten here.
00:07:31
Speaker
yeah It's really funny. When I was growing up, I really wanted to work at Blockbuster because whatever case they used to take off when they were they had the games and like those plastic cases, I was just like, I want to do that for a living. i want to do that for living. And then realized it was nothing. But I know those feelings. I just want to be there and do this.
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah. um What I love that you're doing is that you came into gaming, and I still want to explore this subject, and you didn't know the full back end of gaming, but you built a game...
00:08:04
Speaker
or a team of juniors up, right? These other people that might be having a hard time getting their voices, their work being seen. What you're doing is you created a platform to help amplify the voices of those others that wanted to help and be a part of this as well. And I think where the gaming industry is today, you know, and you probably have taken a look at things like Manor Lords. How do you build this community up? You're building this mega community up, but you're also enabling those people that work for you, help you volunteer to learn more and get their work being seen. And I think we need more of that in the industry today of How can I help you get your work seen?
00:08:36
Speaker
What is the mission that's being done? And I think even though, and I hope this doesn't come off as rude, right? You may not be the expert in the industry yet. You are taking people under your wings and you're kind of showing them, Hey, here's what we can do. And I,
00:08:48
Speaker
commend you for that because I think that's the knowledge share we need in this industry. Some people will look and say, hey, I need to compete with these developers or these developers, right? But the end of the day, when you're an indie, you guys want to work together to build up a better product, right? And when you start involving your community, when you bring people on to help you, I think you're empowering those people. And I think that's something that's maybe overlooked, but something I think that you do that's amazing.
00:09:09
Speaker
So first all, thank you for that. Yeah, and thank you. No, I mean, I'm a teacher, right? So it's kind of natural for me to want to teach other people and help other people. ah I'm a lifelong learner, growth mindset, all that jazz. And I think that it doesn't matter.
00:09:25
Speaker
You know, if someone is equal to you, higher than you or lower than you, you can learn from everyone. Everyone has different experiences and they've navigated the world differently. And, you know, there's just always something to learn. So, yeah, I don't mind ah teaching people what we have done or answering and questions when they come to me.
00:09:44
Speaker
i am definitely not an expert. I i never have claimed to be. Uh, but I have done something different and that not a lot of other people are doing and it has succeeded for me. And yeah, I'm more than happy to share that if other people want to do that.
00:09:56
Speaker
Um, I run a program where I work with other, uh, indie studios that are, that are pre-seed, you know, volunteer similar to Cave Bear. Um, and they're all they're all doing their own thing. I don't tell them how to run their business.
00:10:08
Speaker
But we do work under a mission of you know supporting each other instead of competing. you know I think, obviously, this is still a business. We are technically competing with each other. But there's so many games, so many studios that I just don't think we need to compete directly with everyone and and view everyone as like, oh, big, scary. Like we can't let them know anything that we're doing.
00:10:28
Speaker
Like there's so much competition already. We can definitely benefit from just some support. There's definitely a lot of gatekeeping in the industry. It's just kind of the culture. i don't think people do it really on purpose. It's just you know, NDAs are the norm, you know?
00:10:41
Speaker
ah So it's it's kind of going against that a little bit. and But it's been very successful. People want to share and they want to help. They want to support. So yeah, I'm just kind of giving them an opportunity to do that.
00:10:52
Speaker
And I don't know if what you were referring to was the game design skills workshop that you run, but I ah feel like that's almost like a full circle connection there, right? like You're trying to make your mark one person at a time. you started by learning there. Now you're running workshops there. So I think it's kind of learning from the best. Then when you become at that level, how do you share that knowledge with the rest of the people as well?
00:11:13
Speaker
Yeah, no, the partner program that I was just talking about is different from Game Design Skills. Game Design Skills is just the community that I started in. It's a game design educational community and website. um I found them on Google when I first transferred into the industry, didn't know anything about anything.
00:11:28
Speaker
And so just learned from them. But yeah, they
Future Directions and Personal Aspirations
00:11:30
Speaker
they really like me over there. They believe in me, which is amazing. And now I run little LinkedIn networking workshops ah just at the it's like one three hour, two hour, three hour lesson at the end of their like 12 week level design or mechanics workshops, very small.
00:11:44
Speaker
um But yeah, it's, it's nice because I'm a teacher and it's now I'm just teaching in a game design ah community, which is fun. um But yeah, it's different than the partner program where I do, we bring together other studios in general, whereas GDS is more of like the individual trying to to learn a specific skill.
00:12:02
Speaker
That's still awesome. I think you know when you can bring other studios and and share those industry knowledge, I think that's where real partnership, real power is made. um ah want to talk about that step when you decide to start Cave Bear, right? You you said, hey, I'm going to do this.
00:12:18
Speaker
What are those first few days like? Or maybe let's back up before you decide doing it. Do you talk to other people on how you want to get started? do you just say, hey, I'm going to do this? do you start a Discord channel?
00:12:29
Speaker
I was in the GDS community. I was, um you know, there. I was active there. I had become an admin as well. And I was just, you know, it was a group of friends that I liked.
00:12:40
Speaker
um And I had the game idea and I knew that I couldn't do the game idea any justice by myself. So I wanted to see if anyone would join me. And so i slowly, very casually started putting it out there like, hey i have a game idea.
00:12:54
Speaker
you know, if you're interested, like maybe working on it, let me know. Portfolio project, you know, that's something we need. um And a couple of people were interested. and so that was the very start of the team. And then we got a couple of people more from people that they knew.
00:13:09
Speaker
um and then the only thing we needed ah to really start was a programmer. And that's when I went to LinkedIn and was like just really casual on my post in in my ah like my own profile because I was already getting just a little tiny bit of traction on LinkedIn.
00:13:22
Speaker
So I thought maybe I could find someone And that's when I was like hey, we need a Unity programmer. um And we got one. So that really worked out. But that was that was kind of it. that's I think that is when I made the Discord.
00:13:35
Speaker
um I think it was like, if I remember correctly, the Discord was just like a personal Discord that I had already. And I just made like a private channel in there for our team. And that's where we started. And and now that personal private discord is now the Cape Bear Games discord. And we do actually still have like that personal friends channel in there that's hidden under a special role.
00:13:59
Speaker
It's not active, like no one ever talks in it, but it's still technically there. so I used my friends as like my first community members to boost those numbers on the Cape Bear discord. But now it's like obviously so much, so much more than that.
00:14:12
Speaker
I love it yeah That's the original seed. The original seed is still there and just kind of like Plantasia, right? What did it blossom into? You you have this whole community of ah plants now all over the place and I think that's awesome.
00:14:23
Speaker
um When you get started like that, right? You have these volunteers or whatever you want to call them, juniors that want to help and be a part of it. At that point, is it kind of, do you have an order of operations? Is it like, hey, we you had the discord, we're going to start community management. We're going to start growing the community. We're going to start doing development We're going to start creating images like, is it throwing a bunch of crap against the wall, see what sticks, or you had a plan?
00:14:49
Speaker
I mean, the thing is with with us is we didn't have a plan at all. And so when I recommend things to other people now, it's completely different from what I did. um But I think there were a few because we never meant to be a studio or anything fish official at all. It just kind of happened like that because we went viral on LinkedIn. And that's when I was like, OK, maybe we can do something more official and more substantial here.
00:15:14
Speaker
um But it was really just like supposed to be a portfolio project, really casual kind of thing. Um, but I tell people to do different things, but there were a couple of things in the beginning that were natural to me. I think just as a teacher and just also who I am personally that, uh, defined our success, uh, immediately.
00:15:36
Speaker
Um, and that was the pillars of the studio. We talk about game pillars a lot. Uh, I'm actually not very good at them. We had game pillars for Plantasia. They were bad. We don't use them.
00:15:47
Speaker
Um, I'll do better next time. But yeah, I did make pillars for the studio um and they were pretty much just values that I personally valued and wanted the team to value as well.
00:16:00
Speaker
And that was communication and education. Education, obviously, former teacher, very important to me. And we were all juniors. We're all trying to learn. So I wanted us to make sure we were still learning. And then communication is just personally very, very important to me. I'm a huge communicator.
00:16:14
Speaker
I over communicate in some in some ways. um you know I don't believe in holding things in. we were working as a team. You need to communicate. And so that was really, really big for me. But I know communication is really hard for a lot of people who haven't mastered it.
00:16:28
Speaker
ah And so I wanted that kind of expectation that we will be working towards that. ah But then the third pillar was passion. um And that isn't like...
00:16:41
Speaker
super relative to who I am passion wise. I mean, I guess i I have passion, sure, but it was more of like, hey, this is the reason we are here ah is because we all have this passion for this game.
00:16:53
Speaker
And so we need to kind of keep that at the top of our minds, say, you know, keep reminding ourselves of that passion and making sure that we are fostering that passion. And that has what has kept us together as a volunteer team.
00:17:05
Speaker
You know, with with paid teams, you're paid. That's what's keeping you around. that is the motivation, but with volunteer unpaid teams, it's, it's, um, passion. So those were kind of the three pillars and, you know, for other studios, they can have their own pillars, but I think those three are still very important to just kind of have as expectations ah and just, yeah, have, make sure all the team knows that. And that I think those three pillars are are huge a factor to the entire team's success.
00:17:36
Speaker
ah Honestly, it's one of the the main things I think made sure we, we have stuck together and built and released a game. I love the fact that you bring up pillars. i think on like my fourth or fifth podcast I ever did, someone, a game director told me about the concept of pillars. And was just like, wow, this is genius. Like, i guess everyone knew it at the time except me. But like you start to create create the foundations that you're built on or your studio or the game is built on. And it just kind of, even if it wasn't good your first time, the fact that you did it right and you followed the best practice and then the next time you'll do it a little better, you're never going to be perfect at it, right? But at least it gave you hope. It gave the people that were following you hope that, want hey, there's a bigger thing going on here. I can feel it. And the fact that I think that goes a long way, even if it wasn't perfect, it it was good enough to get people to go with you, right? Yeah.
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. ah it's um And I think that's perhaps my strength, if I can brag about myself for a moment. um Just my strength as a leader in and going into this project as the leader, where I was able to recognize these things really early on.
00:18:44
Speaker
you know Obviously the project, the game is what we were all focusing on. And I think a lot of leaders focus a little bit too much on that, where they're just really excited to have this game idea and they want to get working on it as quick as possible.
00:18:55
Speaker
And that's great. That's exactly what I wanted to do as well. But you have to kind of think of the bigger picture. If you want this game to come out, you need the team to do it and to have to look at them and, hey, what are their expectations?
00:19:06
Speaker
What can they ah expect from themselves? What can they expect from you? um And what can they expect from the project? And that's another thing I tell people as well as like expectations. You need to set that out very, very clearly. That's part of the communication pillar, in my opinion, um so that everyone is aware how long this project is going to go, ah what is expected of them, what is expected from the leader.
00:19:26
Speaker
ah And yeah, clear communication. It all goes back to either communication or education. Everything in the world, honestly. Yeah, I think you look at the role of a teacher, right? And a teacher probably has one of the hardest jobs in the world of creating lesson plans, trying to work with these kids, depending, no matter what the age, right? ah Grading, following up, keeping them disciplined, teaching them. Like you're you're creating this model. You want to provide this model example of how things work. And when you look at a studio, you have a bunch of kids that are running around trying to do things, right? So how do you clearly communicate with them? How do you get through to them? How do you make sure things are clear? I think the skill sets of a teacher are, are,
00:20:05
Speaker
very managerial, right? and you can motivate people with that. And it's one of the one of the jobs that I often hear a lot of people coming from education into gaming. I think it's just they understand how to keep order when there's chaos. And I think that is often overlooked. You know you have these these amazing developers coming and starting their own indie studios, but they don't really know how to manage people because they don't like They're geniuses of what they do, but management is a whole nother skill that this is just so hard to use that if you haven't, and I think it goes a long way and everything you're talking about shows the kind of leader that you are based on that.
00:20:38
Speaker
Yeah. And I think, you know, I think management and the type of leadership that we are talking about oftentimes goes to the producer. I love my producer. i I don't personally want to be my own producer.
00:20:51
Speaker
I think that's a lot of like little work that I'm just not a fan of. I like the more bigger picture stuff. um But i've I've learned that oftentimes a producer is a people manager alongside. And while I have taken that role from my producer where where she does help me with it, um I am the main people manager on the team, which is not I'm learning as common for a creative director. Usually they are just like in the meetings directing things.
00:21:14
Speaker
um But I enjoy it. I i i enjoy people. I like. people i like managing people. And like I said, that that teacher background really helps because as a teacher, you have to know how individual students learn, what motivates them, what drives them. You have to learn them specifically and then make sure that you are communicating with them in a way that allows them to participate with the whole class.
00:21:39
Speaker
and learn what everyone else is learning. So it's very individually focused. And that's what I do with with my team is I make sure I know them well enough to know what they are interested in, what they are invested in, ah and give them that opportunity to explore that.
00:21:54
Speaker
ah And that maintains their passion as well. Yeah, i the teaching aspect of my background, has transferred a lot more than I expected into this role.
00:22:06
Speaker
I didn't think, I thought I thought i was gonna rely on my writing background and to it to get into games. And I don't like at all. Sometimes I help my narrative designer. um and But for the most part, it's it's by far the teaching that that affects my leadership.
00:22:22
Speaker
And I'm glad because it's worked out. I think most people are in some sort of job or career that don't think that their skills can translate to another industry, but that's not the case. It could be a different name. It could be a different title. But if you're a project manager, it might be a project manager here. It might be a game director here, or like you said, a producer or right.
00:22:42
Speaker
Like your skills can translate very well from one vertical to another. You just got to figure out how you use it and how you kind of flex that skill. Definitely. I have one last question that want to go to our ah fireball round where I ask you quick questions, but from the studio perspective, if you could go back to the beginning, what is one change or one thing you would do different than you did?
00:23:06
Speaker
you know, we've made a lot of mistakes, obviously we're a junior team. Um, you know, we did pre-production wrong. We didn't in involve QA and play testing earlier, not early enough. Um, but I think the one that has caused me personally, the most stress has been marketing.
00:23:21
Speaker
There were just a lot of, I didn't fully understand what marketing meant. I didn't understand that it really is a whole separate thing, nearly as big as development itself.
00:23:32
Speaker
Um, And so I understand now why why kind of publishers exist ah and they kind of take all that marketing off the plate of the development team. I still like doing marketing internally if I can manage it, hopefully I can in the future, ah but I definitely see the appeal of just handing it off to someone else.
00:23:50
Speaker
um you know i just I kind of hired backwards. We hired a community manager ah first and then a marketing director last and that definitely should have been switched. No hate to my community manager. She's great.
00:24:01
Speaker
um But yeah, it's just kind of that order of operations that I just didn't know. the thing is, like I thought that I was personally interested in marketing So I thought that I would kind of be doing most of it. That was definitely the wrong assumption. i have way too much other stuff to do. And I also don't know marketing like that.
00:24:16
Speaker
I just was kind of mutually interested in it. Not interested in anymore. Don't want to do it at all. Not just like, so not interested. um But yeah, I mean, marketing, I think, is the one that has caused me the most stress because And it it shouldn't because I tell myself this, ah it shouldn't because the goal of our game isn't even financial success.
00:24:38
Speaker
It's not. It's just more of, it caused me so much stress because I could see the game that they that we were building and how, sorry, this is really inappropriate. I love it. I know.
00:24:51
Speaker
I can see the progress and I can see the game that our team was making and I can see all of our team members and how amazingly talented they were and how this game we were making was actually really good in quality.
00:25:02
Speaker
um And I just wanted people to see it. I wanted people to be there when it came out. And I just and so I was really kind of focused on marketing because I knew that was the only way that they could see it. If we succeeded in marketing, they would they would be able to see it.
00:25:17
Speaker
And so I almost felt like that responsibility to the team to make sure marketing succeeded. So I definitely put a lot more pressure on myself with it than I needed to. And I constantly told myself, like, it's not supposed to be a financial success. It's OK if marketing doesn't work out the way you wanted it.
00:25:31
Speaker
um But i I put the pressure on myself nonetheless. And so that's probably what I would change is just kind of go about understand marketing more ah from the beginning, ah build the team a little bit differently.
00:25:42
Speaker
And um yeah, just yeah, lower my expectations a little bit for myself. I appreciate hearing that. I think, you know, understanding even if you want to do something, knowing that this might be someone that's more talented or better out there, right? i think I think a good leader hires people that are really good in their position and just say, hey, take it and run. it Maybe every once in a while I want to do something and let me be me, but like you're an expert at this. And I think that self-identification of saying, hey, next time around, I know to do this, right? I think that's the learnings there. Yeah, I think that's what
00:26:14
Speaker
you know, ended up making the whole team in general. as I had this game i idea and it was very cool and I liked it but I knew that I was simply not capable of doing it myself. um And, know,
00:26:25
Speaker
you know Thankfully, it was it was a pretty simple game idea and I wasn't too attached to to extra stuff on it. So I was able to give my team the freedom to to change things. um But honestly, they all loved the game idea to begin with. So they didn't even want to change a lot.
00:26:40
Speaker
I'm very lucky there that they enjoyed what I was ah thinking about. um But yeah, like the thing is, I understand that I'm good at people and I'm good at managing people and I'm good at the ah you know maintaining the overall vision of the game.
00:26:53
Speaker
ah But I'm not good at anything else. And that is why I have amazing 15 person team, and which is bigger than most indie studios. And that's because I just want them to be able to handle it. A, because I'm selfish and lazy myself, but also just because I know that they can do it better.
00:27:09
Speaker
And I want the game to be good. Well, we were all lazy at heart. So so I appreciate hearing that. Fireball round. I just kind of throw a few questions at you. ah Good to go. I'm ready. All right. What is the last show you binge watched?
00:27:26
Speaker
Oh, God. What a terrible question to ask. um I and watching so many shows right now that are coming out one at a time, which is unfortunate.
00:27:38
Speaker
um Oh, Severance. Severance. Well, we watched that we watch that every week. We binge-watched the first season. i don't know. I'll say Severance. Severance is really We just finished that one as well, back-to-back.
00:27:51
Speaker
if you haven't If you haven't seen it, you absolutely have to see it. You should see it. game of thrones level but it has not yet let us down oh no it's not game of thrones level that's too much hype it's worth it i'm sorry if you don't agree it is that good what is the last game that's not plantasia that you played uh i play infinity nikki every day all right how i talking love tap that i heard it's very uh gotcha is that what it is it's not you know um It's my first gotcha game.
00:28:22
Speaker
yeah ah It definitely has gotcha. I do believe that it does it in a way where I don't feel like I have to participate ah money-wise if I don't want to.
00:28:33
Speaker
I can definitely ah not spend money on it. I do allow myself $10 a month. There you go. like that. It's very strict on that. It's for the developers. People are working on that game. Yeah, exactly.
00:28:45
Speaker
think when you're in the industry, you don't mind spending a few bucks here and there. Yeah, exactly. What is your dream vacation? um I went to Hawaii for the first time last year.
00:28:58
Speaker
ah it was amazing. It was everything I thought it was and more. ah The water temperature was beautiful. I'm from South Florida. I'm big on beaches and being able to swim in the ocean, and I cannot do that here in San Diego. The water is too cold.
00:29:11
Speaker
And Hawaii was gorgeous and beautiful. So maybe a cruise to Hawaii because I'm also, and this is just, it's, there's so many issues both with traveling to Hawaii and cruises separately that it's guilty pleasure. Okay. I understand all the bad things that, okay. He asked dream vacation.
00:29:30
Speaker
Um, Hawaii, I think would be, would be it. Cause I, I really want to go back. Um, We're going to edit that to Hawaiian Cruise just to let you know. Yeah, Hawaiian Cruise. Ideally, I do love cruises. It's just like the free food.
00:29:42
Speaker
ah I'm just really big on unlimited free food. And then my husband will be like, because he's not a fan of cruises, he'll be like, it's not free. You you pay for it I'm like, well, you pay for it in the ticket price. So it doesn't change depending on how much food you eat.
00:29:55
Speaker
So in my head, that's free. Okay. um So anyway, yeah, I like cruises too. I'm with you. Team cruise. my My wife is begging me to do a Disney cruise when my youngest is a little little older. So cute that that will be and our future one day. Uh, the last question I had for you, if I can remember it was, I don't remember it now. I'm just going, this is why should write things down. I don't write things down. So we can go back to Plantasia.
00:30:23
Speaker
um now You know, you talked about it being your idea. You kind of bring it up. You built this whole team up to help build it, right? did you once Once the team was built, did anything change? do you hear but from the the developers on what they wanted to do? that the I mean, the inspiration seems to be Solar Punk, right? That's kind of the the feel.
00:30:43
Speaker
um And then idle gameplay as well, right? So ah has anything changed once you involved more of a group into this? um I mean, honestly, yeah. I mean, things have changed, but i don't think enough for me to even really remember.
00:30:57
Speaker
um There's nothing that I was super hung up on. Really, my whole thing was I wanted Rusty's Retirement meets Plant Tycoon, um which is a a game from 2007. So Rusty's Retirement, 2024, Plant Tycoon, 2007. Yeah. twenty twenty four like tycoon two thousand seven um that was kind of That was kind of it. I don't even remember if i if it was my idea for Solar Punk or if it was my narrative's idea or if it was someone else.
00:31:18
Speaker
I think maybe it was mine, but I honestly can't remember. um yeah Everyone on the team has brought their own ideas into the project and I have allowed them to do that because I did not have an extremely strict vision.
00:31:31
Speaker
I had a vision and it is strict, but it's in a way where it's like pretty simple and they again all really liked that idea and were down with it. but you know we are all juniors making a portfolio project. And so I wanted each team member to be able to bring the skills ah that they had, but also be able to challenge themselves in areas that they were interested in.
00:31:54
Speaker
So everyone has influenced the design. You know, I, well, no, maybe not. I was going to say, I think maybe we did want solar punk or maybe I did. Maybe it was my idea because I looked at my artist's portfolio before we he joined.
00:32:07
Speaker
Uh, and I was specifically looking for kind of a solar punky thing and his portfolio was really geared towards that. Um, so maybe I did, i don't remember either way, not important, but yeah, I let everyone kind of bring their own thing into, into the game.
00:32:21
Speaker
Um, Our designer, it's funny enough, is ah not a cozy game designer at all, not even a cozy game player, ah but I knew that he could do the job.
00:32:32
Speaker
ah And also he was one of like the first team members. So he was back when I was not being picky on team members at all. um I knew he could do the job and that was really all that mattered to me. So he has brought in some of his interests. We have some ARPG elements in the game, which you wouldn't expect from a cozy game, but we do have have some ARPG elements in the game that I think are are interesting and neat and provide more depth to the game for those people that want it in an optional way.
00:32:58
Speaker
um Obviously, our artist has highly influenced the game because it's all his art style, his personal art style, and he determined that entirely on his own. um You know, even our our ah programmer, our lead programmer has brought in so many of her own ideas and she has some like animation ah skills. And so she has like the Only animation in the game right now is totally her.
00:33:20
Speaker
We have not done any animation outside of just when she was bored and wanted to try something. um So everyone has brought in their own our own aspects. And I think that is really important for a leader to allow.
00:33:33
Speaker
you know i understand that we have these very specific ideas of games in our head. And I think that we can achieve that within a team. But you have to be flexible enough to understand that everyone, especially in a volunteer team, when you're not paying them,
00:33:48
Speaker
their motivation comes from being able to see themselves in their work. ah And so, yeah, you need to allow that that freedom for sure. i I love that. and i think it's lovely that you're you're letting them kind of show them their feathers or however you want to put that, right? And what they want to do.
00:34:05
Speaker
I'm curious with that, as well as the community that you're building on Discord, how do you manage many ideas like this, right? There must be lots coming at you. Is it just throw things in the Jira? Is it just pray?
00:34:18
Speaker
I mean, obviously our our um project, like our our game development is done in Discord and in Notion. When it comes to the community, the partner program, everything else, I am not very organized.
00:34:31
Speaker
um I'm not just very organized in general. You should see my desk right now. ah So it's more of like I try to remember things. And if I remember it, that means it's probably more important to me.
00:34:42
Speaker
um But also not necessarily. I just forget shit a lot of the time. My memory is not good. I need to be more organized, especially when it comes to the partner program. um So, yeah, I mean, I'm definitely not perfect.
00:34:54
Speaker
I'm definitely very messy. um And that's why I have like my own producer. Right. Because she is the organized one. My marketing director as well is extremely organized, too. She goes through our. um company email now and organizes it which is great because before she got there it was a fucking disaster it absolutely a mess and now it's like all organized and i'll go in there and there's like only two emails in the inbox instead of like 300 so uh yeah i'm not organized really at all I feel that. I feel like every week I try a new program, out whether it be Notion or Airtable. I'm going to take notes here. I'm going to take notes here. I know, and I love it, and I do use Notion a lot.
00:35:31
Speaker
um It's the only app that has allowed... has maintained my attention for long enough to actually use it relatively often. But it's still even still in there. It's really disorganized and all over the place. But at least I use it every once in a while. I like learning all the new apps. I wish I was organized. I wish I was one of those amazing organized girlies.
00:35:54
Speaker
And I thought I want that so bad, but I'm just I'm not it's not me. No, I started using ChatGPT for some notes as well because I love how it can reference them and it's not bad. and You got to be careful of kind of some hallucination type stuff. Yeah, yeah. It's just a great way to just think of your data in different ways that you haven't looked at it before.
00:36:13
Speaker
no um You also went into Steam. So Steam was your launch. You launched it about three weeks to ago into early access, right? I know you kind of had some bumps, I think, on the way to launching on Steam.
00:36:25
Speaker
Can you tell me about kind of What was your Steam experience like when it was time, maybe the first couple weeks leading into launch? How does that work? What's that process look like? So hard.
00:36:36
Speaker
it was really hard. The Steam backend, if you've ever been in it, is... a lot. It's a lot. and there's like And they have documentation, but the documentation is also a lot. and it just And if you're not technical at all, which I'm not, it it was really confusing. i'm I'm very lucky that our game is small um because if it's under a certain amount of megabytes, like 2,000 megabytes or something, then you can upload it in this very easy way directly through the back end of Steam.
00:37:02
Speaker
But if it's bigger, you have to go through this whole other process that i literally don't even know how to describe. I don't know how to do it. I'm glad I don't have to do it. um So I don't I don't know how that works. You know, it's very complicated.
00:37:14
Speaker
um It's it's just a lot. It's really Steam. It's a lot. I think that's why release managers exist so that they know how to work Steam and all of the millions of fucking things that they require. Sorry, I'm cursing a lot.
00:37:28
Speaker
um They just require so many things and they have a checklist and that checklist is helpful, but sometimes it's hard to understand what they're doing. But yeah, I mean, the Steam process is difficult. they they First, they want you to set up the page itself and get all the assets in and all the copy in.
00:37:44
Speaker
and they need to approve all of that. ah They have, again, very specific, annoying little rules. um That part took a while because we needed to get the assets the right, exactly correct um in dimensions and just content.
00:37:57
Speaker
ah And so But overall, I think I could set up a Steam page pretty quickly a second time around. um The hard part was then, well, then after that, you need to make sure that you have a build ah that is approved. And that process is a lot more... um complicated in a way, but also like a lot more scary because it's way important. It's super important to to make sure your game is coming out at the right time and then it's approved and not messing up. And Steam does this.
00:38:30
Speaker
Something else seen that pisses me off is every time you can upload a build to Steam, but if you want to set it to live, you have to you know click a few more buttons. And when you want to set it to live, they will text you ah confirmation code um There are other ways to to get around that, but you have to set those up and I haven't.
00:38:52
Speaker
and so Every time I want to set a build live, it will send me a code But sometimes it just won't send that code and I will never get a text. And it will say it has texted me and I will never get a text.
00:39:05
Speaker
Other times I will never get a text because it has said failed to send SMS. um And I'm like, all right, well, what do i do now? Because you're not sending my sending me that text. message I just can't send my build live.
00:39:18
Speaker
So they do they also just have some technical stuff. They're not perfect. um Yeah, so Steam is really complicated. I'm i'm more than willing to to help people out if they have questions. I do want to personally make some sort of guide for my partner program, um you know, because for for first time people on Steam, it's just it's insane.
00:39:37
Speaker
It's just insane. I think second time around, I'm i'm way better off. Thankfully, it is is once you got it, you kind of got it. But initially, it's ridiculous. I've heard more studios recently launching directly to web with WebGLs being a little more popular these days, which is directly streaming on web.
00:39:55
Speaker
don't that's something you've even considered, but I'd say, hey. literally didn't even know about it. you are Yeah. You're already Unity, right? so Yeah. It's in the latest Unity build, I think Unity 6. six ah You could just completely go directly to web, and then it kind of doesn't skirt scheme. Like through a browser?
00:40:15
Speaker
Yep. You play directly in browser and people are creating like high fidelity games, first person shooters. And I feel like your type of game would be kind of perfect if you could pop it out of the browser and just be running down there. Then you could not worry about it.
00:40:27
Speaker
Interesting. I'll have to look ah have to look into that. Yeah, check it out. it's So it's a new hot trend that's kicking up this year is is ah web-based games. Just like what we used to play in high school for me. We used to do like addictinggames.com.
00:40:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah like java like all the Java games. yeah Flash games. Just like that. Very cool. Yeah. Any on the flip side, though, any positive experiences through Steam? We're
00:40:54
Speaker
have to edit this one out. I mean, you know, it worked as expected. ah Thanks. um
00:41:05
Speaker
That's kind of it. I mean, it just it works as expected. yeah i i don't have anything necessarily ah positive to say, not because it's not positive, but it's because it it does what is advertised.
00:41:18
Speaker
um Yeah, I wouldn't say they made it particularly easy. I wouldn't say they have, you know, promoted our game particularly well um as expected. So then similar to the studio question, this would be my last time I asked a thing about Steam, is if you could go back to that pre-launch, what would you do different before launching on Steam next time?
00:41:39
Speaker
Oh, to make sure that my game wasn't delayed? Or in general, anything would you do anything different? i I'm sure you would do a lot different from Steam's perspective, but is there one thing like set a different price or timing or something like that?
00:41:53
Speaker
No, you know, I mean, I like the way we did it. i i um I would probably practice ah going live before actually going live, like bring in someone who knew steam and go through the whole process with them of of going live for the first time because I didn't. I just kind of woke up the morning of and was like, all right, let's figure it out.
00:42:17
Speaker
um And I definitely panicked a little bit there a couple of times. um So yeah, i would probably just talk to more people about it, of how to do it. So definitely prepare yourself for the worst.
00:42:29
Speaker
ah Talk with people who've done it before um and know exactly the steps that you have to do before you have to do them. So let's talk education yeah let's talk a little bit about Cave Bear Games. um You're kind of a values-driven studio, right? You have volunteers, you have juniors working with you.
00:42:46
Speaker
What do you wish more people out there knew about running ah value-driven studio?
00:42:54
Speaker
I think it's just what I wish people knew about values in general. um You know, I'm very, ah you know, just because of how life has gone, I'm very money averse in general.
00:43:05
Speaker
um I don't like money. I know that the world runs on money. I'm not stupid, you know, like I get it. um But I think everyone could just benefit so much more if money wasn't as involved.
00:43:19
Speaker
as it is. And that is something that I feel very lucky about with the way that Plantasia has gone. and I you know doubt that I'll ever be able to experience it again moving forward. um Just the fact that money was never a concern for us.
00:43:35
Speaker
We never thought about it. Obviously, we are most... mostly unemployed people. We are worrying about money in our daily lives, of course, but we were all under the same expectations since the beginning that this project would not make us any money and that we were not going to look for money for it.
00:43:53
Speaker
um And so it just kind of freed it from a lot of stress and expectation. And it just made it a fun thing, a fun project. And i it's it was made it very unique and very cool and very fun.
00:44:08
Speaker
And you know I recommend studios, if they are in the position to do so, um try to make their game the same way we did without that expectation. Don't go for funding.
00:44:20
Speaker
ah Don't expect money. um you know You can sell it. like Obviously, we're selling it. and We do have some money, but we're also splitting it 18 ways or something, so it's not really like any money really anyone's getting at the end of the day.
00:44:32
Speaker
um But yeah, it was just such an experience, such a fantastic positive experience to to be able to go through this whole project just purely out of passion and not at all worrying about money at all. and it was yeah It was just really freeing, really nice.
00:44:49
Speaker
So if someone was listening and wanted to support Cave Bear, right, they're already going to purchase the game, right? Because we're going to have the Steam link it in our show notes. You can check out Plantasia. But what help would you guys need
00:45:04
Speaker
You know, maybe I should put up like a go like a like a Patreon or Ko-Fi or something. If people want to donate money directly to us, that would be sick. A lot of us are pretty poor, including myself.
00:45:15
Speaker
um But no, I mean, just just buy the game, play the game, give us feedback on it, share it with your friends, buy a couple of coffee copies for your friends. You know, it's only five bucks if you got a couple couple of those bucks lying around.
00:45:28
Speaker
That would be great. um We really just want visibility. We want people to play the game. um you know Especially if you are ah connected to influencers or news media, like that is definitely something we need.
00:45:41
Speaker
um We haven't ah reached out to news media or or influencers yet. we We plan to before final release, ah but we haven't done it yet.
00:45:52
Speaker
And so any kind of visibility, big visibility like that would be huge. um But really just buy the game, give us some feedback in our Discord. We did have someone recently um who has been following us on LinkedIn for a while. He bought my lead programmer an ultra-wide monitor so that she could test the game on an ultra-wide monitor because we were having some bug issues with that.
00:46:19
Speaker
But that was like $300, over $300, which is crazy. And so that was really nice of them to do. um That was insane. And so like you know stuff like that is really cool.
00:46:30
Speaker
um But yeah, I mean, and people have been so supportive already of the game. and And like I said, we have overwhelmingly positive reviews. We haven't really received anything negative at all.
00:46:42
Speaker
um So I'm already you know blown past expectations. But yeah. any kind of visibility you can give us if you want to help. That is really what we need. Beautiful. We will, we will, we will shout to the Hills about that page and so will our audience.
00:46:58
Speaker
Um, now you said this is a portfolio project, right? That's the goal. Have you thought about what's next? Are you going to continue to build on this build what's next? And you're smiling here cause you get asked this all the time, but I have been getting asked that question a lot since, uh, we released an early access. So, um,
00:47:18
Speaker
you know I definitely know that this is what I want to keep doing. I want to keep being a creative director. I want to keep running Cave Bear for sure. At the same time, though, I want to work at an established studio. I want to know how how established studios work so that I can learn and and see what I want to bring back to my own studio.
00:47:35
Speaker
um But also, you know i have a couple of game ideas in my head. They're constantly changing. I don't know if they're even doable. You know, it's just stuff like that.
00:47:45
Speaker
So really what I'm telling people and what I also just told my team this week is I don't know what's next. I know Plantasia. We are releasing Plantasia at the end of June into full full release. And that is when we will stop working on it.
00:47:58
Speaker
We will not. It is a portfolio project. It's not a live service game. it is It's out and it's done and we are done with it. And then ah less than a month later, I'm moving countries.
00:48:09
Speaker
um So that's kind of my focus right now is finish Plantasia, move to another country, and then yeah, ask me after that. We'll see. That's fair. I would say the one one thing that stuck out that what you said was that you've created a game, you've launched a game, it could be nice to go work at another studio, but but you've done it all. I think at this point, you'd look at people that have been in those studios and poach them and say, hey, we were building something special here. And and bring the talent from those studios to you guys and you can continue to grow. You now you have this reputation, you have this brand now that has such a great online following, right? You have a huge Discord, you have a LinkedIn, you're at over 10K people on LinkedIn, right? like
00:48:47
Speaker
you're doing what you gotta be doing. and it'sarple talent It's so nice. and like, I'm, I'm very lucky to have succeeded like this so early in, in my career here. um but at the same time, like I'm still like a little kid, like there are games from studios that I love and I would love to work on.
00:49:06
Speaker
Um, and like, I want to just be a part of what they are doing. So it's hard. It's like, yeah, I can continue doing my own thing because it's awesome. And who would want to do anything else? But at the same time, it's like,
00:49:17
Speaker
But if I could work on these games, that would be like so sick, you know? like so it's hard. It's hard. That's how on the other side. i know. Yeah, it's hard. I think that's all I have for you today, Ayla. Is there anything you want to let us know? Where can we find you guys?
00:49:32
Speaker
Yeah, um definitely. Obviously, we are on Steam. You can find the game there, Plantasia on Steam. ah It's the only one, I think. um And then please join our Discord. ah Our Discord, I hope, will be linked somewhere in comments or whatever. It's just Cave Bear Games Discord. You can find us via good Google search.
00:49:52
Speaker
um We... are there. you can If you play Plantasia, you can give us feedback there. If you are a game dev, we the vast but majority of the community is game devs. If you want to volunteer on a team project, we host over 90 other indie studios in our Discord to help you find positions just like that.
00:50:10
Speaker
If you are an indie studio and you want to join that program, you know message me. um You can also find me personally on LinkedIn. That is where I'm at, Ayla Derek on LinkedIn. I got like...
00:50:21
Speaker
10,000 followers so I also think I'm um the only Ayla Derek there i don't know it could be it's a weird name um I'm there uh my dms are open you just have to connect with me and I accept most connections anyway ah happy to chat happy to answer questions I I love LinkedIn I love chatting um so yeah pretty pretty accessible uh but yeah join our discord if you can amazing we'll we'll have links to everything Ayla just mentioned so you can find her we will we will but push everything out there about Plantasia.
00:50:50
Speaker
Honestly, I love your story coming from education, building up this community, enabling junior developers to build something great. I think it's a fantastic mission and you're doing a great job at it. I would say keep keep crushing it, keep doing good, have a safe move across the world. And and thank you so much for your time today.
00:51:06
Speaker
Thank you for having me on. This was great.