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Emily Scahill on Breaking into Gaming: Career & Hiring Insights from SkillSearch
32 Plays4 days ago
Podcast Summary:In this episode of Player Driven, host Greg speaks with Emily Scahill, Head of Client Success for Games at SkillSearch, about talent acquisition in gaming, the impact of layoffs, and how studios can hire smarter. Emily shares her journey from HR to recruitment, the importance of networking, and why a holistic hiring approach is key to long-term success.
Key Timestamps & Takeaways
1️⃣ [01:37] From HR to Gaming Recruitment: A Non-Traditional Path- Emily transitioned from HR management into recruitment, reversing the usual career trajectory.
- Her passion for video games led her to SkillSearch, a games and interactive tech talent agency.
- Takeaway: Follow your interests—they can lead to unexpected and fulfilling career paths.
- Many candidates don’t fully understand the challenges of a role before accepting it.
- Overhiring during COVID led to mass layoffs when demand normalized.
- Takeaway: Studios must think long-term when hiring, considering risks like overexpansion and retention issues.
- Reaching out to professionals on LinkedIn can provide mentorship and industry insights.
- Studios and job seekers alike should leverage networking to stay ahead of trends.
- Takeaway: Proactive networking can open unexpected opportunities.
- SkillSearch helps gaming studios fill roles by providing top industry talent.
- They offer salary benchmarking, employer branding advice, and recruitment strategy insights.
- Takeaway: Companies should view recruitment agencies as strategic partners, not just headhunters.
- CVs should be clear and concise, highlighting achievements in bullet points.
- Cover letters should be short but tailored to the role.
- LinkedIn is now a key job search tool—keep it professional and updated.
- Takeaway: Small details in presentation and outreach can make a huge difference in landing a job.
Final Thoughts & Key Themes
✅ Be strategic in hiring – Avoid short-term thinking.
✅ Network effectively – It can lead to career-defining opportunities.
✅ Optimize your job search tools – LinkedIn, resumes, and cover letters matter.
✅ Stay informed – Market trends impact hiring and job security.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Emily Skahill and episode overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the latest episode of Player Driven. Before you get listening, let's hear what you're about to listen to. Today we're being joined by Emily Skahill. She is the head of client success at Skillsearch. They do some really cool things. We talk about things about her transition from HR to recruitment in gaming and what that was like. We talk about the importance of strategic hiring when it comes to gaming. How do you know when to hire, how to scale, how to make sure you don't make any of those mistakes.
00:00:28
Speaker
And most importantly, we talk about networking and career development and gaming. How do you build out your network? How do you continue to nurture that network and make sure that it helps work for you? It's a really fun episode. Emily is a blast and I hope you guys enjoy it.
00:00:46
Speaker
Good morning. Good afternoon. Welcome to Player Driven. Greg here. Today we have the pleasure of being joined by Emily Skahill. She is the head of client success for games at Skill Search. So we're going to learn a lot about what studios are looking for, what attracts top tier talent. And she has a really cool story coming from HR and how that all rounds out. And it tells a really fun story that I'm excited to learn more about. First, Emily, thank you so much for joining me today. How's your day? How are you?
00:01:16
Speaker
Yeah, I'm really well. Thank you. it's it's ah It's great to be here. How are you doing? I am doing well. I am home with a sick child, but life goes on. Oh, no. oh I hope we get better soon.
Emily's transition from HR to gaming recruitment
00:01:28
Speaker
Me too. He needs to go back to school. I am excited to about today's conversation. um Before we just jump into it, did I miss anything? Do you want to say anything about yourself?
00:01:39
Speaker
um i Who knows? I can talk a little bit more about myself if that would be helpful, but I feel like you summarized it well. A lot of people know a little more about Emily Scale. I've been with Skill Search, the games talent acquisition, I say games we We also work in interactive tech. The interactive tech team will tell me off if I don't mention that. um We've been working in that space for 30 years and by interactive tech I mean things like um VR. you know It's not just used in a gaming context, it's also used in a commercial context, AI, robotics, that sort of thing.
00:02:18
Speaker
um and yes so I've been working with them for a couple of years now, started out as a a recruitment consultant, having transitioned from um a HR management role, which is a bit of an odd journey. you know Normally you go from recruitment to HR, but I went the reverse way um because I've been a HR manager for for many years and um but always since I was a kid really passionate about video games and I found out that there was a video games talent agency in my home city and I couldn't believe I had no idea the whole time. um So I took the leap, took the opportunity to to join um you know my favourite industry and um I've been so, so much more happy um ever since ah as much as I enjoyed HR and
00:03:08
Speaker
driving forward initiatives, hopefully creating a great working environment for staff, managers and volunteers um and and you know making it and and working on EDI and making an inclusive and welcoming environment. I yeah i just love working in in this creative space, talking to ah video game studios and publishers and service providers and learning, learning about how it's all made. um So yeah, ah hopefully, hopefully bringing something to the industry with my background and my experience. Yeah, you have so much you said there. And I think we just build the podcast off of basically what you just spoke about there, because I find it awesome and fascinating. And I have lots of questions at the same time. So just going to throw a bunch of things out here and let's see what sticks with us.
Strategic hiring in gaming and industry challenges
00:03:54
Speaker
Our first conversation, you told me they were a whole trans transition from
00:03:58
Speaker
HR to recruiting or hiring, right? And I found that fascinating because in my mind, and I know i I'm just sectioning off a piece of HR, right? I'm used to ah HR being those ones that deliver the not so great news, right? Especially in this gaming industry recently, it's been hammered with lay layoffs everywhere, right? And it's been tough. And now you're gone to the hiring side where you're trying to help these individuals find jobs, find new locations, or helping the studios fill the roles that they have available to them.
00:04:26
Speaker
Is there experience that you took from the HR world that you were able to apply to the hiring side of things to say, hey, I know how to help make this journey easier or any skills or best practices you can recommend?
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah i think I think it's about taking a ah holistic approach. you know Often um those those bad conversations that you have to have or difficult conversations you have to have as as a HR professional can come from not getting the foundations right early on. And and that's not to say it's all HR's fault or all managers fault.
00:05:06
Speaker
um things pop up, life happens, ah sometimes candidates are or you know staff are dealing with their own issues, something changes for them or or it's just not the right job fit but that that I guess that's my point is sometimes those performance issues where you have to have those difficult conversations um can come from not properly vetting your, or not, not recasting a wide enough net, not, not recruiting in the right way, looking in the right places to find the right skills, and then not properly vetting those people in the selection process to make sure they're a right fit for not only the role, the team, the wider studio culture,
00:05:48
Speaker
The challenges that that may pop up and may they may face, um you know, a lot of us when we think about a job will think about, oh, yeah, I could do that. I'm motivated by that. But are you still motivated when you think about all the challenges that will arise during that job? ah Can you take the worst day in that job and keep going? What if it turns into a few weeks or a few months? um Are you motivated to can you can you deal with that? Are you motivated to get through that?
00:06:19
Speaker
m So yeah it's it's that kind of thing and then and then also you know planning properly, risk assessing, um yeah not as unfortunately we've seen in so many cases the overhiring that happened and um and i't I don't want to come across as like a and know it all or and hindsight is is you know what's it 2020 is that phrase yeah but it does boggle my mind when I think about the overhiring that happened during the pandemic and we're now reaping what was sown hopefully coming out the other side of it now but you had
00:07:03
Speaker
this mad rush for for talent and this this gold rush because everyone was at home and locked down and and playing video games during COVID and then they were released and it says it was so short-sighted and I think hume and humanity in general is so, I'm getting very philosophical now, but so short-sighted and so bad at assessing risk.
00:07:28
Speaker
um like we weren't prepared for COVID um when you know flu's a thing like we could have learned from the flu um and planned for an epidemic you know epidemics happen we were so ill prepared for that and then we had COVID and we were we overhired and we were so ill prepared to deal with the consequences of of things going back to normality which is presumably what we were all aiming for um And so, yeah, long tangent, it's taking the but holistic holistic approach to think about the future, assess risks appropriately, therefore, hire appropriately. um And that includes not just overhiring, but planning for what if your key staff member working on this project leaves, where will that
Networking and career development strategies
00:08:21
Speaker
leave you? What kind of other pressure will that put on the rest of the team?
00:08:24
Speaker
Will you be able to deliver on deadlines? um All those sorts of things. So I think, you know, it's that thinking strategically, thinking about, yeah, the employment life cycle as a whole um and how you can mitigate against various different factors um ah is, is I think, what I bring from HR to to recruitment in general.
00:08:53
Speaker
There's two things I wrote down while you're talking. I loved everything you were talking about. First one that stood out to me was people really want to fill these roles, but people don't really understand the challenges that might arise and they may not be able to stand up to those challenges or live up to those challenges. And I think gaming is a really good call out for something like that. And I can speak from my own experience. For a long time, I wanted to open up my own little restaurant and I thought it sounded like such a great idea. I love cooking. I love doing all that stuff.
00:09:22
Speaker
But people don't think about the side the negative side to this, right? When a hobby becomes a job, you have to deal with these pressures, whether they be the pressures you prepared yourself for or you didn't prepare yourself for. it And I think, you know, people think about making games and they're like, oh, it's gonna be great.
00:09:37
Speaker
I'm just gonna come here I'll throw some code together and I'll have a game and everyone wants to come play this game but they don't think about the other aspects that come along with that side of the things and it gets scary when all of a sudden you're doing your hobby and you love it and you come across this challenge that you're not really sure how you face it and it becomes a fight or a flight type of circumstance of can I live up to this can I do this and I think I think people are often ill-prepared. They think they know everything. But it's something you learn with age, right? This experience makes a big difference. And whether you hate it or love it and that idea, like when you've been in the driver's seat and you know how these things are going to go, it does kind of prepare you for for what's going to happen and what's going to come next.
00:10:18
Speaker
100%. And i think I think, you know, yes, those experiences come with age, but um this is where people can take advantage of how connected we are now as well, you know. um Not everybody wants, well, I think there's a kind of a joke that goes, if you if you're on LinkedIn, you've you've failed, um because nobody wants to be on LinkedIn.
00:10:45
Speaker
my audience here yeah everyone I swear I spend sort of seven hours of my working day. um So I maybe by that metric failed at some things. What was it saying? I have no idea. um I think yeah in terms of taking advantage of of you know how connected we are now and you can take advantage of platforms like LinkedIn.
00:11:10
Speaker
um and reach out to people for a conversation or a coffee if you're interested in in trying something, in getting into a particular field, you know try to find people that are experienced who've done that before, have an honest conversation with them about what are the toughest parts of this job. or and The same thing applies to um you know working at a studio or working at a particular company easier said than done because really you want a trusted friend that's maybe working there that will be honest with you and not just be like, why are you asking me all these weird questions about my company? What are you what you up to? But um you know if you were, for example, looking at starting your own business or starting your own studio, try and reach out to someone that's done that before. There's a lot that you can learn from and and prepare for to know whether you can deal with the challenges or
00:12:07
Speaker
even if you can't deal with them now, prepare yourself to be able to deal with them. yeah Yeah, I think that's the best part of the the audience you can build. And I think I encourage everyone to network online. right Most people don't bite when you message them online, and more people are happy to share their experiences. That's what I've learned about doing this podcast is I can reach out to most people in most industries, and people are excited to be able to talk and tell what they do. right and If you have questions about a studio, if you have questions about a role, or you have a mentor that you just want to reach out to because you admire their work,
00:12:40
Speaker
I think people are often often flattered when they reach out and hear from from people who look at their work, watch this work, or want to understand what they do. And I think people are, especially in this culture where we are now in this kind of content creation type of culture, people like to be able to share these types of things with one another and support best practices. Yeah. ah It's so true. I think, you know, people by their nature are, they want to help other people unless they're having a particularly bad day or you catch them at a bad time.
00:13:09
Speaker
I think it's it's natural to to want to help other people, so I would say don't be afraid, don't be shy to reach out. ah It's nice for someone to be able to share their experience and and and think about that.
Career reflections and opportunities in gaming
00:13:21
Speaker
The other thing you mentioned a little earlier, which I loved is that humankind as a whole, we are very reactive as a group rather than proactive, right? And we saw that the prime example of it was during COVID where all of a sudden we all were bored sitting on our couches because we couldn't leave our houses and gaming just skyrocketed, right? And the first thing these companies thought of us, let's hire a ton of people because people will be sitting on their couches for the inevitable future.
00:13:45
Speaker
Well, then COVID's gone and people start leaving their house again and they have less time for gaming and all of a sudden we have these massive layoffs, right? That's one example of many, right? And another one that's less related to COVID is the amount of live ops games that come out these days. How many online player versus player shooters can we have? People only have so many hours a day to play a game and they keep pumping these out, right? and I think this year, right we've seen games like Concord, where it didn't just it just didn't click with the audience, and all of a sudden companies lose millions of dollars. And I think people are going to start, again, proactively taking a look at the market and start saying, all right, how do we prepare for the future? right We keep falling into these same mistakes over and over again of chasing the hottest trend. And it does work for that small 1% of the companies that can publish a game, because we put it out there. right But for 99% of the companies, they can't compete. they can't
00:14:36
Speaker
keep up with these AAA publishers. And that's why, I mean, we're in this world of indies that are coming out now, right? Balocho is a great example of that, where who saw that coming, right? And I think, you know, I think there's more educated people taking a look at the market and say, hey, which genres have not been tapped into for a number of years that perhaps we can create new content for, or new games for, right? And I think,
00:14:58
Speaker
It's funny, i I just loved how you said we're reactive, right? And I agree with that. It's just there's this little, and I think it's never going to change. I think humankind is just, we're built to be reactive, not proactive, but there's a small subset of people that are those difference makers that are are thinking ahead of us. And it's fascinating to kind of see that. And I just loved how you put that.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah, i think you I think you put it better than than me, to be honest, in terms of that that reactive nature. it's yeah i mean And there are some things that you just can't see coming. you know the the it's It's not just the overhiring and COVID that's caused these redundancies. It's things like the um you know the the war in Ukraine and the um you know, therefore funding drying up from Russia and stuff like that's had a big impact. And I think a few, you know, even a few months out, um I suppose there were warning signs, but people didn't really think it was going to happen. um and And so, yeah, there's, there is a limit to how much you can assess risk, but there is, I think people just don't
00:16:11
Speaker
It's important to keep educated right keep educating yourself keep up to date with the news, um try and mitigate, and not all risks will happen, um but try and mitigate for risk as much as possible and and just that whole thing about you know, the amount of hiring that went on in COVID is one that for me really sticks out because I'm just like you surely, surely we were all planning to leave the house a again someday. You mentioned that
00:16:45
Speaker
ah earlier, right, going going from your HR to client success, customer success, right in the gaming was kind of you having an opportunity in the field that you love the gaming world. Can you kind of tell us a little more of kind of that transition on like, how did this appduce opportunity come to be? And what does it mean to you?
00:17:07
Speaker
It was really bizarre actually. So I worked in higher education as a HR manager um and so um you know that that means that their students and graduates um was the audience that my and My ah charity or company was working with um and Skillsearch posted a graduate job opportunity and tagged my organization in it to get access to that audience.
00:17:39
Speaker
um And I saw it and realised that it was recruitment in video games and I reached out and was like, can you apply for this if you graduated a very, very, very, very long time ago? And they said, yes, absolutely you can, which is great to hear, um but it's probably too junior for you.
00:18:00
Speaker
and And at the time, unfortunately, my husband was was going through through a redundancy and I said, yes, actually, you know, I can't take a pay cut to that extent right now. I'm i'm the sole breadwinner. um ah But we kept talking, they kept in touch and eventually we found a position that that you know worked for for both of us. So I think i think you know it's it's always important to Give yourself every opportunity possible. If you see something and you're not sure, reach out and ask a question. Reach out and start a conversation. Keep in touch because you never know where it might lead. Don't shoot yourself in the foot or exclude yourself from an opportunity by going, oh, that doesn't work for me, or that's not the right role, or I'll never get that. like you have You have to give yourself every every opportunity possible.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yeah, you know, this kind of goes back to the networking thing that we were just talking about earlier, but in the other way of like, you don't get what you don't ask for. Right. And the worst that can happen is that you're rejected and say, sorry, no, we're only hiring new graduates. Right. But, but you.
00:19:09
Speaker
I figured, what do I have to lose? I'm going to ask. I'm going to start this conversation. And it didn't take off right away. But you realize, hey, we can keep this conversation alive. We can keep it going. And it did kind of build into that. And I think that it's something that we talked about in sales. One of my mentors, Ed, he always said, if you're talking to your prospect every day,
00:19:28
Speaker
Often, it means that they're not talking to your competitors. So if you're the one talking to the people who are hiring in the job and creating the job and building the stuff out, they're going to start to know who Emily is. And they're going to start saying, hey, we have a role that I think is shaped for. So always staying in touch, always just asking questions. Be inquisitive. I don't know if that's the right word I want to use there, right? like And these companies will not build a role for you, but they're going to identify this is a good position for you. Even if you don't think it makes sense. Like I know you now, right? And I recommend you do here. And and I love how it brought you into the industry that you love it. And one of the questions I always love to ask is before all this, before you had that degree, what did Emily dream of being when she was growing up?
00:20:14
Speaker
Oh, do you know what? i never I never really knew when I was really little, I wanted to be a vet just because I love animals, still do. Then I realized maybe cutting them open isn't what I want to do. There's a line to be drawn there, right? Yeah, like petting them versus cutting them open, two very different interactions.
00:20:37
Speaker
um ah Yeah, I kind of kind of just bumbled through, ah ah guess is I I just worked worked my socks off at school um and through my degree.
00:20:52
Speaker
um I remember just as I was um leaving A level, um which I guess is college for different audiences maybe, um ah but before uni, before before college in the US I guess, um the the final years of school basically.
00:21:11
Speaker
We call that high school. High school, yeah. Just as I was leaving, I spoke to the head of the the head of head of ah high school back then is um because we were meant to be choosing what we wanted to do, our careers, etc. And I just didn't have a clue.
00:21:28
Speaker
um you know I liked science, but in my 17-year-old, 18-year-old brain, I was like, well, I don't want to be a doctor or a scientist, so what good is that to me? Could it roll in the money? I know. so Why didn't I stick to a STEM subject? like um But um yeah, his so his advice was just, well, if you're not sure what you want to do, pick something you're good at.
00:21:54
Speaker
and that's a more of a generalist mainstream subject so I didn't go for what was back then, I guess, considered by some more of like a wacky subject like psychology. Again, looking back now, why didn't I choose that? And I just stuck to sort of one of the core subjects, so like English, maths, those kinds of things. So I went I went down an English literature route, studied that at university. um And ah yeah, I ended up then standing to be an elected officer for um the student
00:22:29
Speaker
union as as I left uni because basically it was the the charity there that's where I became a HR manager eventually um that got me through university it was a very tough time as it is for many many people going to university um So yeah I said to be an elected officer because I wanted to give something back to the organisation that had got me through those three years um and and then it yeah it became HR and then you've already heard the bit about about you know and joining Skill Search and the kind of advice I've gathered over the years as it applies to me but it might not apply to everyone
00:23:12
Speaker
is if you're not sure what you want to do, follow your interests. I think when I was younger, I put all this pressure on myself to work out what what my passion is. What's my passion? What do I want to do? And I could never fully commit to something.
00:23:28
Speaker
um and And, you know, some people know and that's amazing. Some people know at a very early age, they want to be a doctor and they can get everything towards that. You know, they do the right courses, they do the right volunteering. By the time they get to the university application point, you know, they they're the golden candidate and they're they're fully prepped and ready to go. ah That wasn't me. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And yeah, I think over the years I've learned if you follow your interests, because lots of people have many and varied interests,
00:24:00
Speaker
it will lead you somewhere eventually. you know I have interests outside of video games, not many. It's my main passion. But um you know I've ended up in this industry because yeah it's an interest of mine and I followed every opportunity that's, I guess, presented itself after a certain point. I wish when I was a lot lot younger, I'd realised that you should learn.
00:24:27
Speaker
you can or should learn coding or r or something else if you want to work in video games. But the good news for us is there are lots of other roles in video games too, like recruitment, like HR, like sales. So you can, there are lots of ways of finding your way there eventually. That's one of the whole reasons I wanted to start this podcast is because I never, after failing C++, plus plus I never thought I'd have a way to get into the gaming industry. And then through sales and sales engineering, I
Quick-fire personal insights from Emily
00:24:52
Speaker
was able to find it. So I love the idea of follow your interests because It really, ah when you love what you do and you do what you love, it comes natural to you. And like you mentioned earlier, there still are going to be hurdles. There still are going to be times when you have things pushing against you, forces kind of that are are tough and you have to find a way to overcome it, right? And that's just part of having a job. um but ah But once you follow your interests, you just kind of love what you do and and you just kind of run with it. And I think that's fantastic.
00:25:19
Speaker
I'm usually about halfway through there. I'd like to go kind of to a fireball around where I can throw some quick hitting questions at you. Good to go. I'm ready. I'll try and be succinct. Emily just recently posted a cool picture of her playing Dragon Age with her govi lights on her TV, everything glowing. But outside of Dragon Age, what game are you playing now?
00:25:41
Speaker
outside of Dragon Age. what can It can be Dragon Age 2. Cult of the Lamb. I discovered that recently and I adore it and it's nice to have something co-op to play so that and me and my husband actually spend some time together rather than just play side by side completely different things. ah Nice. um What is your dream vacation?
00:26:01
Speaker
dream vacation. Probably I've i've had the the privilege of going to Japan once. I think that I'd love to go back. It was 2016 when I went so much has changed since and it's such a diverse and varied country. I'd i'd love to to return and and see more of it. Great. If you had one last meal, what would that meal be? Oh, sushi.
00:26:29
Speaker
Or dumping. gear perfect Japanese cuisine in general. but Matches with your dream trip. yeah not Last book or movie you read or watched.
00:26:41
Speaker
um Okay, the last movie we watched was Gladiator, the 2,000 one. because i didn' real one okay Yeah, we'd never seen it. And I guess, you know, it was on our minds because number two is coming out. So finally saw that. um And the last book I read... um At the moment, I'm reading Butter, um which is a Japanese book translated to English, I'm not smart enough to know Japanese, um about a serial killer who also loves cooking. Beautiful. Fresh sushi. Yeah, exactly. There you go. I think that's all I got. yeah We'll end it there. I appreciate those answers here.
Understanding Skillsearch's role and industry trends
00:27:27
Speaker
I want to talk a little bit about Skill Search.
00:27:30
Speaker
Can you kind of just break it down? What what is Skillsearch and what's it providing to its customers? Sure. Okay. This is the one I should be able to answer really well. We'll see how it goes. My pressure's on.
00:27:43
Speaker
So we are a video games talent partner um and we, I suppose at its core, we provide candidates for jobs. Studios contract us when they're struggling to fill a job or have too many jobs to fill and they need an extra helping hand or maybe they need to fill a job covertly. um You know, there's a replacement they need to make or an upcoming job that they can't announce publicly yet, and they can't attach their name to, and they need someone else to be able to get out there in the marketplace and and find someone.
00:28:21
Speaker
and That's what we do, sort of I suppose, in its most simplistic form, um but we view ourselves and and hope that our clients ah view ourselves through our actions um as their strategic talent partner. so It's not just popping our heads up when we've got a role to fill and we're likely to earn some money, but being there all the time. So if a client of ours or a studio is struggling to um that do salary benchmarking or know why they're losing candidates at offer stage at the end of a process or
00:29:03
Speaker
um yet losing candidates throughout a process, whatever it might be, employer branding, improving ah quality and diversity, um being there to work with them and provide advice um on on developing that. and There are a few different ways of working, which I won't go into because I'll probably end up boring your audience stiff, um but we can work as a sort of, we can loan out a member of our team ah ah to a tour studio as well as just work roles ad hoc um so we can kind of become part of their team and do lots of hiring for them as and when is needed as as well as that ad hoc work. So that's kind of on the studio side. And then on the candidate side, um it's about building those relationships with candidates, being there to advise them on um their CV, their portfolio, interview skills,
00:29:59
Speaker
um how to go about the job hunt, things like networking and stuff like that, um and really understanding what it is that they're looking for next. So a lot of candidates ah intu So we've we've been running a games salary and satisfaction survey for 11 years now. The results of our upcoming one are are still being collected, but I had a little sneak peek at the data before this podcast to see if there was anything interesting that I could share. Yeah, breaking news. um And for 2025,
00:30:40
Speaker
um around 30% of candidates have said they won't actively be looking for work. About 30% um I'm going to show if I've got my memory wrong or my maths wrong here. Around 30% said that they um might be looking for work. And I think it was 40% that said that they would 100% yes, they would be looking for work. um So, you know, a lot of the time,
00:31:20
Speaker
It's about asking the right questions because those candidates that are have either said they're a maybe or no, they're not looking for work. they are um Those are the ones that you might not capture if you post a job advert um or if you reach out to them and it's not with the right opportunity, they're going to ignore you. So it's about talking to candidates and understanding exactly what their next dream role looks like or their next move looks like. So so that you know when a job comes in exactly who who is going to bite your hand off for that role, even if they've said, no, I'm not looking for work right now. um What would get them looking for work? What would be the right fit for their next right move?
00:32:14
Speaker
So I think that's fascinating and I think it's great and I have many spin-off questions, right? Years and years and years ago, I created my resume, my CV, because I needed a job out of school and I got my first job and since then I've updated the qualifications, I guess, or my job history on the LinkedIn. I haven't really messed with the template. I haven't messed with the look and feel. This was a decade ago. um Have things changed in the CV resume world? Obviously, people still have that type of stuff, but are there new trends that are seeing? Are people doing video resumes? Are they putting things on there? like
00:33:00
Speaker
Is there something that you see working in the market today when people are looking to be hired that helps them stand out than just the normal CV? That's really interesting. I haven't really seen a lot of video or if or any, maybe my colleagues have um seen video CVs. On the one hand, I would say anything you can do right now to get your CV to stand out um amongst the pile of other CVs is no bad thing. Unfortunately, candidates are up against hundreds, sometimes thousands of other candidates and doing something to make your CV stand out
00:33:35
Speaker
and and make it more memorable ah can be really beneficial. Obviously now I suppose what's probably changed over the years is a lot of studios are using ATS it's called Applicant Tracking Systems um that will um kind of pass a CV with so many systems that still say upload your CV and then fill in your entire employment history separately and you think, why did I upload my, why did I have to upload my CV? What was the point of that? It's like a nightmare. ah whole thing Do the work and then do it again. and It wasn't fun enough the first time.
00:34:22
Speaker
Now you have like, that what's connected with LinkedIn? Like you click it and nothing gets filled out. You're like, what am I connecting?
00:34:31
Speaker
um So, yeah, there there are applicant tracking systems to consider now. um And sometimes, i you know, I guess like I get asked, oh, it is my is my resume optimized for that? I think, you know, PDFs can sometimes throw them off, but really it's more important to have a ah clear layout, um you know, job title, dates, and then bullet points for under each for, you know, three or four feet for each relevant role about your responsibilities and your achievements in that role. um I think, you know, advice or just my understanding of what what a good CV looks like has developed over the years, but I don't think there have been major changes on that front. Maybe we've moved
00:35:21
Speaker
Yeah, no, I don't think there have been too many major changes. It's time for it to evolve a little bit, right? I mean, I know I'm not in that world, right? But I feel like it's so antiquated, and especially when I go to a site that's like, upload your cover letter. I'm just like, I don't want to have to create a cover letter now. Am I overthinking a cover letter or am is it? I don't know. Yeah, so old school.
00:35:50
Speaker
So your my advice for a cover letter is don't be intimidated by the by the word letter. It doesn't need to be three or four pages. In fact, one or two paragraphs is usually fine. it's more that's where So your CV is kind of ah your record of your experience and your achievements. Your cover letter is where you tailor that to the job that you're applying for. So it's kind of matchmaking, taking um, X from your CV and Y from the job other and marrying it up and being like highlighting my experience here. This is how, you know, I, how I think I'm a great match for this role or this is why I'm passionate about this role, or that kind of thing. Um, so, you know, I think again, in, in a world where you're having to compete with hundreds of thousands of applicants, taking that extra little bit of time to tailor your CV to the role, tailor your cover letter to the role.
00:36:47
Speaker
is what's going to make you stand out and make a difference. I suppose going back to your previous question about what's changed, probably the biggest change is LinkedIn. That wasn't really a massive thing years ago and now it is. And um that's where recruiters will go to look for candidates more often than not. Sometimes they'll look at places like Art Station and stuff like that. But LinkedIn, you need to make sure that that is professional, up-to-date and ah yeah easy to navigate and and understand. i think
00:37:25
Speaker
ah Yeah, ah those are those are the kind of the main the main things and your overall online presence is also something to consider. I think it can be useful when you're on the job hunt to do a little bit of an audit of your social media. Some companies will go and check that because they need to protect their brand, they need to protect their reputation. um And really, if they see something that's a red flag on your social media,
00:37:54
Speaker
most of the time that shouldn't exclude you, they should be having a conversation um about about that with you to gain gain a better understanding of of what that's about. But yeah, thinking about does my Instagram or my Facebook or or TikTok, if someone looks it up, ah say something that's gonna put an employer off, um that's that's important to to do a little audit of that as well.
00:38:23
Speaker
Well said, appreciate that.
Tips on recruiter interactions and career growth
00:38:25
Speaker
As someone or maybe, you know, people often get reached out by recruiters on on LinkedIn, right? And often it's ignored. Why? What would be the mistake? And you've already kind of answered this, but I'm going to double down here, right? Why shouldn't I ignore recruiters on LinkedIn?
00:38:44
Speaker
That's a good question. I mean, you're well within your rights to ignore a recruiter. You know, we're reaching out out the blue. You might not want what we're selling. That's fine. um ah Maybe there's something to be said for responding anyway, just to say not right now because of XYZ. But thanks for reaching out because you never know when that connection might be useful again in future and also you never know when if you're also providing a little bit of a reason as to why it's not suitable maybe they've got more information that you know perhaps wasn't clear um or or would potentially make you reconsider or just come across wrong um that that might actually mean that the job is is suitable for you.
00:39:38
Speaker
So, Emily, head of client success for games at Skill Search. You came from an HR background. For your current position, what skill set would you say you utilize the most on a day-to-day basis? And if you could go back to university, would there be a different class or a different thing you want to learn a little more to help elevate where you are today?
00:40:00
Speaker
Oh gosh, that's a really good question. I didn't even warn you for this one. I think it's something else. What skill set do I use the most?
00:40:12
Speaker
um I think ah think for me, it it's more values that I stick to.
00:40:24
Speaker
um I suppose i what's natural for me is to be very diligent and to follow up, which I think works well in sales. um You know, you have to give yourself every opportunity.
00:40:40
Speaker
um And yeah, it's kind of that consistency and building relationships over time. That's where you'll see success. I think it's, you know, in the current market in particular, it's a lot of our success doesn't necessarily come from an immediate win. Like you reach out and someone's like, yes, I'm going to give you a job.
00:41:02
Speaker
Or yes, we're looking for candidates right now that does happen, but it's very now evenly balanced with building long term relationships where over time you're building trust and people want to work with you and you get to a point where they.
00:41:17
Speaker
you know they sign an agreement with you even if they've not got roles right now because they can see the value that you bring and know they want to work with you in future. So I think it's that building trust, following up, being diligent, those kinds of things. But I suppose when I say values, it's it's more about trust and honesty and being yourself. I don't think there's any point trying to be anything else and people will see through that and you won't you won't deliver your best because you're not in your comfort zone and and you're not yeah bringing your best self to work every day, if that makes sense.
00:41:56
Speaker
um But if I had chosen something different at school,
00:42:04
Speaker
ah So that's an interesting one because I suppose you can be good at anything if you spend enough time on it. I i love art in video games. Maybe I would have loved to go down that route.
00:42:20
Speaker
I ah don't think coding is my passion, but I do enjoy building things. ah So yeah, maybe something in those in those realms. I suppose having I did a psychology A level, so maybe if I'd stuck to that and carried that through university, that would have been useful on there.
00:42:39
Speaker
HR and recruitment front as well.
Networking and future career pathways
00:42:42
Speaker
To the first part of what you're saying, it kind of goes back to what I think the theme of this episode is almost networking is, hey, build that network, nurture your network, make sure they know who you are as a human, right? When when you become friends with someone, whether you're selling to them, whether you just want to become a contact, right? They learn to trust you, they know them and they can reach out to you, right? You you become a friend, if not a sales rep, not a person trying to push a product, you become a trusted advisor that they can reach out to you when an issue arises. So I love how you put that. 100%. The last question I have for you today, Emily, then I can have you go on with the rest of your day. And this doesn't necessarily have to be you, but more of the role of head of customer or client success. Where do you go from there? Have you thought about what that next step would look like? Is it and is it still in client success? Where does one go from there?
00:43:32
Speaker
That's a really good question. i um It's hard to say because I really love what I do. I'm enjoying what I do right now. um But just talking more generally, I suppose, is you know the question that you're asking, where you go from here. I suppose the path can often be you know that very linear um become a director, become a VP, become a you know chief of. That's the i suppose that quite linear route carrying on in the same vein.
00:44:07
Speaker
but The great thing about sales and ah business development in general and recruitment in a similar vein is your you're building out your network, you're learning a lot about the industry, you're kind of, I guess, dabbling in lots of different things and and learning about lots of different arenas and so you can kind of move from ah You can do a bit of a sideways step like business development um is quite flexible. so you know Right now i I'm developing and and looking after our clients as a service provider. You can take those skills and become
00:44:49
Speaker
a game scout, for example, or um you can become um someone that um works with platforms to get the best deal possible for their game and get their their game front and centre on storefronts. There's so many different avenues that you can take um you can take business development. um yeah So there's there's it's it's transferable skills, right which applies not just to sales, but but to any job. And again, that's where I guess the message of networking comes back again. of By speaking to other people, you can learn what those transferable skills are, how did they do it, how did they get there, and what might be open to you as well in the future.
00:45:37
Speaker
I love it. And I would also add to that, don't be afraid to look at other verticals as well, right? Skills can transfer between verticals and sometimes people are afraid that their skills won't apply and it might just have a different name. I mean, we spoke to game directors that are product managers, right? And who would think those two are related? So take those transferable skills, see where they can go in and even don't be afraid to stay in your current role, especially in sales types of roles. I mean,
00:46:01
Speaker
you don't have to manage people and you just go out and make your money, right? Sometimes that's where you want to be and that's where your skill set is. So so so know what you want at the end of the day, right? And stick to it and just become stronger at that. Yeah. And that's a really key point, to be honest, actually, is, you know, a lot of people are on this track of I'm really good at what I do. I'm excelling at what I do as an individual. And then I get promoted to a manager. That's a whole different skill set that unfortunately so often um leadership and studios don't prepare people for and some people can be amazing at what they do and be terrible managers at least to begin with and some people might never be a good manager or some people might just need the coaching and the training to develop the skills but often it's a question that
00:46:46
Speaker
isn't asked and just happens and some people don't want to be in that position either. um So it's definitely something for individuals and studios and and people in HR to to be asking and to think about in their talent planning.
Conclusion and contact information
00:47:01
Speaker
Emily, thank you so much for joining us today. We got to learn about Skill Search client success, HR, and we may have even spoken a little bit about networking today, which I love. Before we go today, can you let us know where we can find you in Skill Search and whatever you want to share?
00:47:21
Speaker
Yeah, brilliant. Thanks so much. So you can find us at skillsearch.com. I just double checked to make sure I didn't get that wrong. Please not Skillshare. Skillshare is all over YouTube. There are a number of times that we get called Skillshare. I'm wondering whether we should just change our name to it. If you can't beat them, join them. But no, we are Skillsearch. And you can find us there or on LinkedIn. Yeah, feel free to reach out any time.
00:47:52
Speaker
Awesome. We will have links to everything that Emily just mentioned on Player Driven. Again, Emily, thank you so much for joining us today. And I hope you have a great rest of the day. Amazing. Thanks. I had such a good time.
00:48:04
Speaker
We hope you enjoyed today's episode with Emily. It was a really fun episode and she has some great content to share with us. If you want to learn more, just hear some of the other interviews, be sure to hit like to follow Player Driven. We'd really appreciate it. and You can also check us out at playerdriven.io. We have all of our content there from community managers to marketing to directors of games and a lot of other content there. so Check out players from the LAO. You can follow us on all the socials as well. I appreciate you guys. Have a great rest of your week.