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Endurance vs Speed Training and WSER Predictions | Episode 115
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In this episode of Peak Pursuits Sim, Brodie and James sit down to deep dive their current training, discussing the phase, mindsets, and sessions that they are doing right now.
Then hear some WSER predictions and Broken Arrow results before we recap some awesome racing around Aus over the weekend!
Results:
- Broken Arrow Skyrace
- Surf Coast Trail Marathon (VIC)
- Mt Baranduda Trail Run: RTRS Round 3 (VIC)
- Kowen Winter Trails (NSW)
- Kiama Coastal Classic (NSW)
- Freycinet Circuits Trail Run (TAS)
- Kunanyi Trail Series: Knockers Solstice (TAS)
- Curtis Island Trail Run (QLD)
- Snakes N Ladders (WA)
***Don’t forget, use code PEAK at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Join us on Patreon HERE
Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Follow James: Instagram | Strava | Website
Follow Sim: Instagram | Strava
Follow Brodie: Instagram | Strava
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Preview
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 115 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Simone Brick and I am joined by two regular co-hosts this week for a fun episode.
00:00:21
Speaker
James Sieber, are we doing? I'm doing well. It feels weird like having both of you in front of me and not having a guest. It's ah it's been a long time. I'm quite looking forward to it. yeah should be fun. It should be very fun. And the other the other host we have here, Brodie, how are we doing? Yeah, pretty good. This is what happens when I don't do my job well enough and I don't manage to get a guest.
00:00:41
Speaker
Nah. We're not with three of us. It's fine. Now it feels like a treat when it's just when it's just us on the podcast in a weird way. um Yeah, was thinking it's probably a good idea to do it every now and then because, yeah, it's nice to catch up and and and see because I feel like when we have the guest on as it should be, the focus is very much on the guest. So it's probably nice maybe every couple of months at least to catch on with a few of the regular guests because then we'll focus in a little bit more on what we've been up to and um get to hear about that, I reckon.
00:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So that's essentially what you've got coming up for this episode. We'll get to some news, some awesome results at Broken Arrow. Obviously, it's Western States coming up next weekend, so a big week in the trail
Coaching Insights and Training Journeys
00:01:23
Speaker
world. But before then, we're going to go a little deeper into where we are currently at, our training, and as all three of us are coaches.
00:01:32
Speaker
As we go through our training, ah maybe some of the things that our runners or our athletes might ask us on the regular basis and just give a bit more of that insider info into what training in on the trail actually looks like or in Brodie's case, rehabbing. um But, yeah, I suppose to get us started on there, give the two-minute elevator pitch, um James, of where you're currently at within your training and sort of what you're working towards.
00:02:05
Speaker
So i think the last time I was on the main show was about the time Luke Nelson, in my sports car, who's been looking after me, he was kind of like, cool, we've hit this point now in your rehab where we can stop thinking it quite so rehab-based and start thinking it performance-based. And that was also the point where we both had a chat and was like, okay, for where... for my goals and what I'm looking for looking where i have to go Like Luke is a great coach.
00:02:30
Speaker
He is a really good trail running coach, but he's kind of like where you want to get to probably worth, we start to consult with somebody else as well. So Luke still writes my strength programs.
00:02:40
Speaker
Yep. because we still definitely have to have like ah a consideration period about how everything goes and and until, oh, well, technically beginning of August is a year, but until February, which is when I have the fourth dose of the drug I've got to take for my bone density, I'm still like in the high risk zone. So he'll definitely definitely take me through there, but it's also very nice having somebody else just write your program and not have to think about it in the slightest. I'm really enjoying that for both the running in the strength side. So I think beginning of...
00:03:09
Speaker
What month is it? June. So yeah, first first of June, started up with a new coach, which has been, been a fun. It felt like, i think because of everything I'd associated with Luke was, and this is not bad saying this, it's me being injured. Nothing to do with him, but like, he's the guy that's got me back to running. So I think stepping ah stepping forward from Luke,
00:03:30
Speaker
to a coach that has nothing to do with rehab and all about performance has felt like a really positive shift. As i think you'll come to later, Sim, it's also kind of highlights where you actually are in the fitness journey and yeah getting back to to it But...
00:03:47
Speaker
yeah, yeah so so since beginning of June, Shiv and I go back to the UK and Europe in early May. End of May, we're doing the TMB as a fast pack. So everything's just been focused around increasing. May next year? Did I say May? No, I meant July.
00:04:02
Speaker
i was going to say, you said May. i was like, hang on. ah I said I was going to stumble on my words a bit today. So yeah, but beginning of July, we head back over to the Okay, yeah. TMB at the end of end of July. So it's all about trying to get back in some ah elevation into the week. So that that's kind of like the main thing and that we've been pulling. So where I left off with Luke, we were just getting back to six days. And now we're still being very conscious about how the elevation has increased. But I think I went from...
00:04:33
Speaker
Pre-UTA, I think I had a couple of weeks around 2000 meters, obviously a bit of recovery after UTA. And then i think it went up to like 23, 28 or 29 and then 3300 was last week. This week I'll come back down a little bit. and But it's been feeling really good. It's fun to actually get out there on adventures.
00:04:54
Speaker
The last two weekends I've run with um Gerald McPherson and Hannah McRae. they They moved up to Meddleford at the beginning of the year. So that's been cool to get a chance to catch up with them. And they've been doing some pretty big training days for UTMB and TDS in August. So they've been able to take part in some of their long run, kind of keep them company for a little bit.
00:05:14
Speaker
Yeah, nice. But it's been taught yeah it's been it's been it's been really fun. It's just I missed going on adventures so much and just spending a whole morning out in
James' TMB Trail Plans
00:05:23
Speaker
the mountains. yes Yeah. I feel that. It's a pretty good feeling.
00:05:26
Speaker
I feel that. Can you say who the new coach is? um Not yet. i yeah i will do. um it's so They're based in the States though, so nobody in Australia.
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, cool. Gotcha. Gotcha. James, with the um with the vert that you're doing, is that because of TMB, be like because of the build up to TMB, be like what do you have to do on a give me the stats for TMB. What have you got to do in that period?
00:05:56
Speaker
So we we split it over six days. i think the TMB is obviously, it' ah it's a major hiking route. So it's the the route for UTMB, but the TMB is slightly different to what the UTMB race does, but essentially the same thing. um So we'll just go with the UTMB stats because they're in my head. So that's 170K with 10,000 meters.
00:06:16
Speaker
But we split it over six days. Where do you start? and like We're going to start but in In Luzuch? Yeah, so we'll do like where it's actually meant to start. So we bypass Chamonix on the last day. You don't actually go into Chamonix. So we're la Zouche to Le Contamine, Le Contamine de Courmayeur, Courmayeur Fouilly, La to Champé-Lac. Champé-Lac, Argentier, Argentier, la Zouche. That is exactly what me and Matt did.
00:06:40
Speaker
Minus the last two days, obviously, because we didn't. said it with a beautiful French accent as well. Yeah, we. You did, you did. um But, yes, can confirm that, like, so I can give you some of those stats because um we did do, and you can, if you haven't looked at these, we did do some of the alternate routes that were,
00:06:57
Speaker
much prettier, i will say. like There was some very cool alternates, um particularly on day one um by Calder Trico. But like day one for you, then we had 16.7 only with 750 up um because I think that was net down. But day two, or so ah day, on why is it, why have i not called, I've called TMB day one, day three and day four, but I've decided not to label day two with TMB. But either way, i think the longest day for us and for you by the looks of it into Cormier, that was like 28K with 2,000.
00:07:31
Speaker
um ah So the the the route that we have, the the longest day is the second day. Contamin Cormier is like 45K. Oh, you go all the way to Cormier.
00:07:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Maybe you don't do exactly what we did then. When we were booking the refuges or trying to book the refuges, I went on when the site opened up, everything got released, i had everything booked and then the site crashed and it wouldn't load up again for a couple of weeks. I think they had like too big a rush of people. And by the time that I actually got the chance to get back on and book it all, the middle stop, because i can't remember what the place is called, there's only two refuges and that one was completely booked out. So that meant that our only option was to do one big day. And then the next refuge that I wanted to stay in after Cormier, which is, um
00:08:21
Speaker
I can never remember what's the Grand Colferé on the Italian side. There's only one refuge that was all booked up. So we have to go up and over into La Fouli. So I think it's a day into 35k day or so. yeah.
00:08:32
Speaker
five k day or so but but we yeah so so We ended up doing 38. We hiked and to the just before Cormier.
00:08:43
Speaker
um There's one that's like you just catch the gondola down. We did cheat with a couple of gondolas by the way. um Highly recommend sometimes. um But yeah that day too we did a 37 and a half K version and that was 13 hours. Yeah. So to answer your question, Brady, it's to make sure that we can actually do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah That's all sort of what I was getting at.
Training Strategies and Adaptations
00:09:05
Speaker
Yeah. we We would like to do it all, like do the whole route without having to take any public transport any gondolas.
00:09:12
Speaker
We also, when we booked this, we probably would have, so I think we have like a 45, 35, a 15, and then like two thirty s to finish off something with something like that. Yeah.
00:09:24
Speaker
So we know that the champy sorry the ah La de Champé-Lac is a very short day to act as a bit of a recovery day. And because we missed out on a lot of the refuges, we just ended up booking Airbnbs for most of it. So we're in a hotel in Courmayeur, an Airbnb in Champé-Lac. So we'll go a bit more of a luxurious way around it. But to be honest, it's cost us exactly the same as if we were to book the refuges. Yeah, the refuges are expensive. Yeah. The difference is obviously we don't get the food, but then because we're dairy-free – there was a high possibility we wouldn't be able to eat much in the refuges anyway. So we kind of went, this is the safe route to do it.
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah. And are you going to be fast packing are you hiking? Fast packing. So we will try and run the sections that we can. So we'll kind of run the flats, take it easy on the downs and be hiking the ups.
00:10:11
Speaker
think you'll be fine. I think we manage it already like quite well just on what you've already been doing. And when we booked it, we had no idea what condition I would be in and also Shiv, to be fair with her her hip, although that's going really really well. So we did think we could do it over less days, but we wanted to have, if we had to, we could hike every single step. It would be very long days, but we could hike it. You could, yeah. And so that's kind of how we we planned it all out.
00:10:38
Speaker
ah So, yeah, no, I'm feeling i'm fairly confident. I had a message, Luke, maybe two weeks ago, three weeks ago because we had a deadline of where a lot of the accommodation could be cancelled and I just said, like, are we being stupid? am Am I going to hurt myself and risk anything? And he was just like, no. Like, obviously, you're at risk of doing any injury at any point in time, but you've done everything right. You've ticked all the boxes. And that is like speed. Like, obviously, it's like lots of lots of footsteps, but um like the – The force that you hit the ground with those forced footsteps is is sometimes the bigger issue with a bone injury. So it's not like you're going to be sprinting around. You're going to be sort of taking in the sights, taking it easy. so yeah Yeah. A good portion is also then the fueling for the time um because like you're still having some bone load there.
00:11:25
Speaker
um But yeah it it's it's much easier when hiking and fastpacking. Well, I think that's probably the biggest question in my head is just how we're going to do the nutrition side of it. Because I'm not just I don't want to just fuel with gels and drink mix. So it's like, okay, so then you're drinking, you're taking like your whole food and stuff, but then it's making sure you have enough to cover that period of time and you don't quite know how long it's going to take. So it's,
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah, but but you've got to remember that it being in Europe, the refugios are very well set up to feed you. even And even if you ask for no cheese in a sandwich, like, they're going to give it to you, those sorts of things. But we've only... It was cafeterias on the way.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah, we only ever needed to take the food for that one day. and then, yeah especially when you're going into Cormier and, like, Le Fouli has a supermarket. Like, you you walk past... You're never short on food.
00:12:10
Speaker
um yeah And we just... didn't carry much and picked up food constantly along the way and proper food. I didn't have a single gel, a single, even lolly, I don't think I was just eating normal food the whole time. And we hiked every step because I think Matt's longest hike on the way in was 10 Ks.
00:12:27
Speaker
And he was very like, matt I'm i part of in the back of my head, I'm like, I watched Matt make it through that day and he on no training and no running. So I have every faith you will be sweet. Yeah. Yeah. So like, and if it but is, it's also, i think the thing that I'm feeling coming back is that the speed side has actually come back really quickly, yeah but I have always struggled translating flat speed to trails and that's probably more evident now. And so I think that just spending time, I think last week was 10 and a half hours or so training. Like it's all pretty cruisy, but just being out there again and starting to build a bit of endurance and bit of strength is, is going to help with what,
00:13:08
Speaker
I want to do kind of in the back end of the year. There's nothing really set, but more next year. That's an interesting one of why do you think that you've struggled to translate flat speed to the trails? Like what is the block there that's not letting you translate it? again Yeah, I think i I struggle to translate speed to endurance anyway. Like I'm a power athlete. I'm a mind sport growing up.
00:13:29
Speaker
Skiing as is's from a snow sport side, most of the racing is 60 to 90 seconds long. Yeah. Okay. I was better at what what we had in England, which is called dry slopes, which is just basically imagine a, don't know, 200 meter, 300 meter hill covered in toothpaste, a toothbrush bristles. Yeah. And we'd ski on that. yeah And that would take 12 to 18 seconds. That was like my jam. Like that's what I was the best in the country at. Okay. So I was, yeah, that's, that's what my, and if I go into the gym, I get strong really quickly. So my muscle fiber type is very much like explosive, it's power. And I just think that it's, I'm getting it to to act slow twitch and be a bit more endurance focused, but
00:14:11
Speaker
mine I think i I maintain what I'm naturally better at and I lose what I'm not. yeah so Which is funny because I also feel like if we put my injury aside, I work really well off high mileage and my body absorbs it really well. I like being out there, but it sort of contradicts what I feel like my natural athleticism is meant to be like.
00:14:31
Speaker
yeah And then also like you look at my build, like I'm 90 kilos. yeah. Well, it just speaks to the strength aspect of it, though, because it takes a lot of strength to have that power and it takes a lot of strength to go for a long time and have that good endurance. So you're a strong runner.
00:14:48
Speaker
um And to me, that's you speak in my language because I feel exactly the same. um It's really an interesting point. Though when you talk about like the which what came back quicker because like that's like intuitively to me that's the opposite to me like I will speed will be the thing that takes me longer to get back. But it's a good point there because I don't know if people think about it that much that it depends on the athlete you are in terms of how you come back from an injury like it it depends on your.
00:15:17
Speaker
what you were saying there, your muscle fiber typology, like what have you have are you more slow twitch? Are you more fast twitch? Some of that's genetic, some of that's trained. um Yeah, I never really thought of that because when you said like the speed came back faster, i was like, what do you mean? Like and that's not a thing. And I think it's it's one of the things when when I intake a new athlete, I, in the questionnaires, I ask them how like what they like doing, what they don't like doing. And it's really interesting. Like you see people just love speed, they love endurance, so they love short hills, et cetera. And then if you ask them, okay, well, what, and obviously this only goes to people that understand this a bit, but like what direction do you like to start fast and try and extend it to create? Like if say you're trying to break 20 minutes in a are you someone that finds running the pace really easy, but you just can't hold it? Or are you someone that finds like running the longer reps really comfortable, but you just can't bring it forward. And it sort of speaks to that fast twitch, slow twitch sort of focused athlete and stuff. and And since doing that and then seeing how that is shown in the training and then now being injured, coming back, it's just, yeah, it is, it's fascinating.
00:16:22
Speaker
One run, like, brodie you and i come back sim you and i we're all going to be different we're all going to have things that are come back faster and slower um but until you're in the moment of living it and you're thinking incredibly critically about it you go oh yeah okay this kind of makes sense now yeah for sure because i'm in a this actually for my training i've been thinking about this a lot too because the speed for me like what is typically my top end speed when I've never really focused on it because I don't really feel like it's been what I need to focus on, um if that makes sense. big And that's why, like it it came back quickly of I'm running sessions at by no means as fast as I can. I know that will return. But I also know that my way to for that to return is actually for me to run more because it will come back naturally.
00:17:15
Speaker
But also realistically, like the speed has definitely come back a lot quicker than any form of endurance of what I had or how I felt on easy runs. Like I'm only now starting to feel sometimes normal on an easy run or like my easy run pace is back to where it was. um I've had months of I can pump out a session and I can run fast. That's fine. Like give me some recovery and I'll be i'll be running fast for short reps for sure. um I did have two parents that are sprinters. So I don't know where my endurance genetics came from, but not my parents. um So there's none there. but
00:17:53
Speaker
But that is why I look at these things and in depth too when I look at my training and I go, okay, well, what do I actually need to work on? Because For me to focus on speed feels silly because i know it will come back.
00:18:07
Speaker
But if my endurance isn't going to come back naturally. So if I work on endurance, they both come forward. But if I was to work on speed, I'd be hampering myself because I'm not the person that once I get faster, I'm also able to hold it longer and more. I've seen athletes like that. I've coached athletes like that where I go, I just get you fast. And for whatever reason you hold because you're more efficient or that's just your strength in that way. um Whereas for me, it's like I take a step back and I go, well, I don't need more speed. I need more endurance. So all of my training needs to be geared that way, knowing that the other will come through too. um But Brodie, would you be different in a return where you need to work on the speed to actually get
Brodie's Recovery and Training Routine
00:18:45
Speaker
it back? I don't know if I've like thought about it that much in terms of it, but I would say that the easy running comes back faster for me in general. like I'll be able to run a long time and not be too tired if the intensity is low um pretty easily, but it's more about that. I guess it's that middle intensity.
00:19:04
Speaker
I've never really been any good at the the really speed, speed stuff, so that's... I feel like that does improve to your level pretty fast, like for anyone. But it's that it's that middle ground of more like, I guess, race, more racy effort or 5K, 10K, that sort of, I have to work a lot a lot of a lot of time on that. um Whereas I feel like I could, I don't know, we'll see when I come back, but I feel like. If my body allowed me to from a musc like ah can just a musculoskeletal point of view, um i would be able to run two and a half hours relatively easily, pretty close to coming back from...
00:19:45
Speaker
having some time off. um yeah But I don't know, that might just be a long forgotten dream of mine. Who knows? We'll find out when I come back. Although I won't be. The the fact of my recovery will be that I will be very graduated, so I won't even be able to test that theory. yeah and when building back like running 60 minutes 70 minutes for the first time like it felt like a slog and and not from a i'm unfit just like this doesn't feel very natural um it becomes it like the long run on the weekend was three hours 45 or something like that and it felt like nothing but so you get back to it it's just yeah the direction my body wants to go is is definitely i think if i was to restart and not ski i would have probably been a good 800 meter runner that kind of feels like my sweet spot and or or a straight out sprinter it's not too late james just get the bike up in and we'll see see sort i've i've got some of the um i was billy's bike up plus is that billy yeah i mean yeah yeah i well i've got some of that sat in the drawer and like just i can't really warrant this for doing a like steady session i want to warrant it but i also don't want to get up people using in ultras now like and i know just feel like i want to feel how good it can make you feel and it's going to do that in my mind at least best on a hard session yeah yeah fair well um that's actually reminding me i've got some in the cupboard i might take it tomorrow morning
00:21:13
Speaker
um Some different stuff, the Soda Bix stuff. But yeah, um but yeah it's it's so interesting um having been on a return myself like you, James. But this time around, i think, Brodie, I could relate to what you were saying with the it it was easy to go out and run two and a half hours or whatever.
00:21:34
Speaker
whenever I'd returned from an injury where I could keep training and therefore I had some level of aerobic capacity. and Maybe that's a difference for me. Maybe my injuries recently I've done some sort of, I've done aerobic conditioning, a lot of it.
00:21:47
Speaker
Yeah, whereas this time around, and me too, which hence why in my head I thought that would be easy too. And off the break I had, it's not. it It was just like my body went, no, we have nothing at this point. You're rebuilding everything. um And so in that way, speed felt even easier again because you're taking such longer breaks and it's nice and short and you're just like, okay, this feels the closest to how it used to feel, whereas if I tried to go out for especially at the beginning, any length of time, it was just like I hasn't felt this hard since I began running, like and since I first tried to start learning to run. um And I think that's the stage I'm still in um where I'm back training and I'm training properly and my training weeks look normal and quite intense, to be fair. But my mileage is much lower still. And by goodness, does it have to be much lower? Because I have not been this just like feeling the muscle fatigue and how hard a normal training week is. Like you take that for granted when you can just do it and bump and bank them week after week after week. But I knew coming into the...
00:22:59
Speaker
um coming into the year, if it was going well, that this period here would be the time where I'm like, okay, I'm just going to be constantly tired because I need to layer on endurance at this point if I want to be able to do what I'm trying to do in Europe. I live now in like five weeks, four weeks, something like that.
00:23:17
Speaker
um And so, it's It's interesting, as you've said, James, as a coach as well, where having a few people at the moment where like either they're stepping up distance, they're newer to running, newer coaching, and they're telling me their experiences and I'm just like, oh, I feel you.
00:23:32
Speaker
I feel you to my bones right now. um Whereas I think after many years, you do lose some form of touch with exactly how it feels to go through that process of building endurance. um I think because my endurance was so good for so long, Either by during injuries I'm biking and I'm swimming and I'm doing as much as I can to maintain it or by running. um Whereas now like my three and a half hour run yesterday, yes, yesterday, like I got through it but i had to I was trudging and it was just like so slow and so painful. But it's also that knowledge of going, well, there's actually no way to make this better other than doing it.
00:24:16
Speaker
And going and and like actually just sticking with it. So it's like you in my head, even starting yesterday, I was like, a few months ago, I would have had to just call it a day because I feel too tired and this is crap. But this time around, this at this point, I'm like, no, I feel like I can get through this. I just have to slow it down. And you have to suck up your ego and go, well, the main aim of today is time on feet. And the main aim is to build endurance that I've lost.
00:24:38
Speaker
And I tell you what, it's a lot more fun building speed. It's a lot less fun building endurance, at least for what I experience of this, because I'm just tired constantly at this point um in my, and like, that's the point you want to be. In my head, I'm going, well, you need to be tired for in order for your body to be adapting to what you're doing. But then there's that line of how tired is too tired, how sore is too sore and trying to stay on the right side of that line which is always tricky.
00:25:10
Speaker
Yeah, it is. um And like right now from increasing the climbing on both sides, my abductors are pretty pretty fried. Like I can get them to feel good by going and doing some Copenhagens and some isometrics for them but like you you are, because you haven't felt this in so long, you're thinking, is this okay or am I pushing this, i need to pull back?
00:25:29
Speaker
And obviously this is where having a coach is great because you can offload that, but you're just constantly navigating this new world of of like these niggles that you didn't used to feel because your body, your body's adjusting to this load, but it's also doing it off a really rubbish base because you've been out for however long you've been out for. And it's really hard. As and you said before, like the ego side of this is,
00:25:48
Speaker
I feel like the hardest part of anybody's recovery is the point where you start to feel good and you realize how far away you are and how far you've got to go forward because you can't run what you used to run, but you're also not doing like a walk run program or you're not having to do this completely abbreviated training program yeah and you're just impatient you're like i just i want to get back to that like i miss feeling like that i want to get do this or you're you're running 30 seconds a k slower for your easy pace or your heart rate is high whatever it might be and you kind of i i find that this is this is the part in coaching where i'm having to really reassure people be like don't rush just trust it be patient it's going to come around yeah just if you force this moment it could all go wrong Yeah, yeah. And I think I actually said this to one of my coaching clients last week of your body loves slow, steady challenges and adaptation that it has time to adapt to. Your body hates being forced through adaptations because somewhere something's shortcut at some point and that's where the but parts of the body breaks down. Like you're always working with the weakest part of whatever is trying to adapt. um
00:26:54
Speaker
And it's keeping that in mind. And for me, yeah, it's the same. It's like, okay, What's the weakest part at the moment? Pay attention to that. And if that's coming along for the ride, then we're good, um which for me at the moment is my bloody calves. It's why I can't, I haven't even been doing that much climb because my calves are destroyed. um But I suppose to get into a bit more um detail, Brodie, quickly give us sort of what your weeks currently look like in the rehab phase, um like of what you're actually able to do for you. And then James, I want to hear what like an actual week's stance looks like.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah, I guess for me it's changing sort of week to week. And like I see my physio on a Wednesday, so stuff has been changing. When you said that you can relate to some of your athletes who are new to um new to maybe running or coming back from a long-term injury, um I've had the fun experience of being able to relate to my patients who have had – pretty serious orthopedic surgeries because i've like it's crazy it's such a different feeling to anything i've had before um the stiffness that i currently have at the front of my ankle is pretty crazy like i just i just haven't had that sensation before and and like you know you see people i work with people all the time and i'm just like oh yeah like yep that symptom sucks a bit but like How bad actually is it? you always i always think I always assume people are laying it on a bit thick and then having experienced it now, I'm like, oh, yeah, I get i get some of that. Like it's just stuff that you can't see from the outside that, um yeah, is definitely a thing. So, yeah, I've been dealing with that a bit. um ah Thankfully, I came out of the boot last Wednesday into a shoe with a heel raise. Cool. That's a pretty big step.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yeah, so that's ah that's that's been good. um I was sort of eager to get out because my calf is wasting away every day that goes on. um And I just felt like i I felt like I wasn't progressing at all.
00:28:59
Speaker
And it had been sort of long enough that I was in the boot. So um physio still like a slightly worry that my tendon's lengthening too quickly, but I sort of convinced him that maybe we try putting a heel raise in so it's not in a lengthened position and my calf will be activating a bit more than it is in the boot. So that will be beneficial. um And it seems to be going really well. So we'll see. We'll do some reassessment on Wednesday. But yeah.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah, walking's not quite right. um I'm quite stiff at the front of my ankle, so I struggle to sort of bend my foot, but called dorsiflexion. um That's really limited, so that limits my walking a little bit.
00:29:37
Speaker
um So, yeah, it's... It's interesting, but i'm I'm starting to feel my calf activate. Like the other day I walked to the gym. My gym is like three minute walk. Oh it's probably like a four minute walk. And I felt fatigue in my calf. Oh dear. It's crazy. But it's it's nice. It's nice to feel my calf actually doing something. Yeah.
00:30:00
Speaker
But, yeah, the difference is crazy in terms of, like, the the the size at the moment. Like, I wasted away quite a bit. um And on top of that, I'm getting a bit of ankle swelling probably, I think, more to do with the fracture, just loading it up for the first time because it's been in the boot for so long. Yeah.
00:30:18
Speaker
It's a bit of a funny kind ah sort of like I've got a thin calf and then, like, a fat ankle. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, but but it's meant I've been able to get back to work as well and whatnot, which is good. But it also meant that I had been sort of cycling at the gym. I've just been doing day on day off. It was very sort of um simple program. I was doing cycling max hour at the gym because the bike is uncomfortable and it wasn't very fun doing it in a cam boot. And then the next day doing a gym session. um
00:30:56
Speaker
doing some sort of weight bearing exercise through my through the cam boot. But obviously I'm not like doing my normal squats and stuff because I'm not really like you're in a different position than you normally are. So not a good idea to load it up a lot, but just trying to keep the movement patterns. um So, yeah, I was doing sort of cycling gym, cycling gym, cycling gym.
00:31:18
Speaker
um I hadn't been cleared to swim yet. And then when I saw the physio he because he was putting me in um a shoe he wanted me to not cycle for a week and just not have too many variables at the same time and yeah but he let me get in the pool so i've sort of done the opposite and i been i've done a little bit of cycling that was another he said i could do one i did two um stretching i've essentially been doing like gym uh swim gym swim but i hate swimming and he doesn't want me kicking yet so i've got to do it with the um
00:31:53
Speaker
Pool boy. find it easier with the pool boy. No. like Not if you can't kick. No, I've just, well, I don't know. I feel like I don't i don't kick very well when I swim anyway. So with the pool boy between my legs and it holding the back half like up without having to kick and my arms able to just do all the work, I could genuinely...
00:32:13
Speaker
Kicking in that position as well, it actually is quite nice because it gives you that buoyancy. But I think if you actually fully let your legs go dead um and just let them float along behind you. That's crazy. is hi and da I'm really good for like 50 meters and then I'm like knackered for the rest.
00:32:31
Speaker
I remember that growing up. I swam first and the sessions where they would tell you to do that and you just knew that your upper body was going to be fried and you'd always feel sick. Like when you realize how much your legs do and I, this is going back a long time ago, but I just remember hating the days that you had to immobilize your legs and just all upper body. I don't know what, because I grew up a swimmer too, but I don't kick very well and I never have kicked very well. You're just more of a power athlete than me. I'm just so weak. I'm such a weak person. My arms are so weak. I can tell you my body is mostly slow twitch muscle fibres. There you go, Brody. Your mission is to just get buff. Yeah. Get strong. You know I've been in the gym doing upper limb because that was the first thing I could do before I did any weight-bearing stuff. Like literally all I could do was upper limb. And like, yeah, I've got a tiny bit stronger, but I'm still weak. And I just think my physiology is just not designed to be a strength, like a pure power athlete. Like I can be certain amount of strong. I'm not, but I'm just...
00:33:36
Speaker
I'm not – I like to be honest, I didn't try in a calorie excess to like build muscle or anything like that. Maybe if I'd done that, I could have, but i was also like I don't want to do that. bulk Yeah, just like going for it, like 300, 400 grams of protein a day, just like – Bulking season.
00:33:53
Speaker
Bulking season. I do love weirdly little like skinny arm runners walking into the gym. Some are very deceptively strong, but most it's just like – No, no. Yeah, I'm one of those weak ones. Although I can do five chin-ups now. Nice. I cannot do a pull-up, unfortunately. But pull-ups are pretty hard. so up Pull-ups are very hard.
00:34:18
Speaker
Pull-ups are very hard. I'll give you that one. Awesome. Well, I'm glad you're able to at least keep busy and back to work and in a shoe. Like all very, very big steps forward overall.
00:34:30
Speaker
um and But this sort of phase you're in with the shoe, how long is it meant to last? Well, like, yeah, I guess now um hopefully if everything goes well this week, um which it feels like it has been going fine, then I'll continue what I'm doing and then slowly take the heel raise out and then slowly just do more and more. So essentially I guess the next phase is get myself strong enough to be able to start running And that will probably be <unk>m like the fastest that was going to be was four months. I'm nearly at three months. I don't feel like I'll be starting a return to run in a month and ah and a week.
00:35:09
Speaker
yeah I feel like it'll be closer to the end of August is my guess. um And i also don't know how much the fracture will affect that, like the slow slow down the recovery a little bit. Yeah.
00:35:21
Speaker
But yeah, I'm not too worried. Like I'm just excited now. I can like I feel like the last while I was in the boot, it was sort of just like maintenance and I even couldn't do a lot of cross training and I couldn't do normal strength whereas in the next six weeks I'll be able to sort of slowly get back to doing that um yeah so I bought a bike trainer bought a new bike to put on well not a new bike but a secondhand bike to put on my bike trainer so I still so I have two bikes and I can just ride my other one to work um nice so yeah I'm excited to
00:35:52
Speaker
get into a bit of that like i don't think i'll go crazy it was just so that it's something convenient at home that i can do and i haven't been in australian winter for like the last four years so i i don't know i don't think i want to do a lot of riding outside so no um yeah so i've got that set up ready to go and yeah it'll just be about doing the slow rehab and build back my calf muscle and then nice hopefully get to some sort of return to run and like my I've been really working on my other Achilles um and I was a bit unsure of like because I've got like a bit of a like essentially like a bony growth like a Haglund's can be sharp and pointy or it can be in my case it's just the calcaneus which is the heel bone is very pronounced but which means like if you've got a pronounced heel bone and your tendon is going is going over that, it's more likely to be compressed if your bone is bigger, if that makes sense. And sort of got to the point where I was like, can I ever actually fully shake this Achilles while the bone is so pronounced and would I need to consider surgery? And it's still something that I might need to consider and I might think about if it struggles in the return. But like having this...
00:37:08
Speaker
12 weeks where I haven't even been riding much. I've really been going after the strength and the range strength, like really getting into dorsiflexion on my right. And I feel like my Achilles is in a much better position, my right one, which is the longer term one. So I'm hoping, fingers crossed, that...
00:37:28
Speaker
The surgery has fixed my left one and I've fixed my right one. And when I come back, I'll be able to go ahead without any issues. But, yeah, we'll see. Awesome. I definitely hope so.
00:37:40
Speaker
I'll be hoping in that for you. There's something positive about it anyway. yeah Good. I know having the bike train is also going to be very handy for what you've got coming up as well. Oh, yeah yes. Yeah, well, that was the other main main purpose. So I can be like present and I don't have to like even like go to the gym because like I go to the gym and then it's a lot of a faff to come back. Whereas if Laura just needs me to do something quickly um while I've jumped on the bike, I can just jump off and and do it. Or if I need to stop, I can just abort.
00:38:13
Speaker
Yeah. Because how many weeks till, Bob? About four weeks now. Yeah, the due date's a month today. Yeah, it's getting close. did some ah did some cleaning up on the weekend. Going to put put some stuff up on Marketplace just to give us a bit more space, just some like – We're getting rid of the coffee table, so we've got a bit more space on the floor and um another, like we've got another cupboard thing that we just got rid of, so I can put my bike there.
00:38:43
Speaker
yeah Priorities, priorities. Yeah, got the priorities. Need the space, use the space. you Love it, love it. Well, that will be very exciting, very, very exciting. Yeah, so it's coming up quick.
Life Changes and Training Adjustments
00:38:55
Speaker
so But the good thing now is I'm like fully functioning human. I went back to – I did my first day of like full duties work today where I wasn't like restricted in what I could do. Oh, nice. So, yeah, I'm sort of back to – normal like i'm i'm a bit i'm fairly unrestricted in what i can do except when i tried to get out of the pool just before and i like you know how you get up i've been got out of the stairs last time but this time i like pulled myself up onto the edge and then i was like sitting on the ground and i couldn't get up because i didn't have like i didn't have enough range in my ankle and someone came over and was like you all right because i was like really struggling to like get up I was sitting on my bum but I couldn't like roll forward because I didn't have the range in my ankle and I was my brain couldn't figure it out so I'm a mostly unrestricted human at the moment
00:39:49
Speaker
Oh, what a humbling moment. I love that. Yeah, yeah. She's like, you all right? i was like, yes, i had ankle surgery, I promise. Oh, that's great. That is so, so good. Awesome.
00:40:02
Speaker
Awesome. Well, James, um I'm intrigued to hear just what what did the last week actually look like with this new coach of that 3300, I think you said, of elevation. But talk us through sort of how that was broken up and how Maybe even like if you had any questions in the week that you had to ask your coach or anything along those lines to give some info. Why am I so unfit? Or maybe more more specifically, why is it so hard to keep my heart rate down on hills? So every Monday,
00:40:32
Speaker
ah i had been having So I had been running on Monday and having Thursday as a rest day. I still, I i have two two people I still do PT sessions with, which carry over from when I was working as a PT. And they're they're both on Thursdays.
00:40:47
Speaker
So I used to have Thursday as my rest day, but one of them starts at 6am and then I drive half an hour to get to there. So I never got asleep in during the week. And as the volume was creeping up, I was like, oh, I really missed having one morning where I don't have to do anything. And I just...
00:41:03
Speaker
can just sleep so that's gone back to monday rest day and uh shiv used logic and realized that actually i had a very clear window on thursday to run which worked out well anyway uh so yeah monday rest tuesday is the session day doing one session at the moment as we yeah put more focus on the vert and the sessions are all very controlled so this was a 10 minute uphill at we'll say sort of marathon intensity um jog back down and into five by three minute at threshold on rolling or undulating trail yeah which was was good fun and again the the flatter it gets the closer to flat the better i feel so i was going uphill in that 10 minute
00:41:48
Speaker
And I started off, i was like, yeah, this is feels feels really controlled. Check my heart rate. And it's just already gone bang. I was like, this is just ridiculous. So it it it almost feels like I can't go up. And granted, this is quite, it was quite a steep hill.
00:42:01
Speaker
But it feels like I can't go up anything steeper than sort of 8% to 10% without my heart rate is really spiking at the moment. which is getting better um but and a lot of that i feel like a bit like you're saying same your calves it's just a lot like the the endurance or the strength endurance of a lot a lot of my especially my posterior chain on my glutes my hammies my calves they're all getting a bit cooked so when you see your heart rate go up though if it doesn't match how you're feeling do you actually slow down or you do do you just keep going
00:42:32
Speaker
About a minute later, it will match how I'm feeling. It's what I'm finding out. So it is like, I just i haven't got i haven't got the effort calibration back yet, ah which is, again, it's so much easier for me to do it on the flats where you're more economical and it's just more familiar. yeah Whereas go up onto the trails and especially...
00:42:50
Speaker
I didn't choose the best hill for this, but it's also the case of getting a 10-minute uphill into an undulating trail. There's only so many places I can do that without it being... Yeah, anyway. So it was... I think i think the trail averaged like 20% for the climb. So it was a decent climb. And it just at that in at that grade, I'm just muscling my way up the hill.
00:43:10
Speaker
yeah But yeah it was good fun. i yeah My comments to my coach after that was basically like, is this too hard? Because it felt... tough but sustainable and especially when i turned right off a fire trail onto a single track and i just got into one of those head spaces where don't know i hate saying this as a coach because i hate like i know i should know better but i had kind of committed to it and i knew i could back off yep but i didn't yep
00:43:41
Speaker
And this is why I have a coach. Yes, exactly. exactly So it was so that that was good fun. The five by three minute rolling, um that had 90 seconds recovery after each. And if I felt like at that intensity, I could have got done 10 of them. Okay. And was that off effort or heart rate? Like, are you looking at your heart rate? That was off effort. Okay. So when I look back at my heart rate,
00:44:04
Speaker
it was pretty much spot on where it should be. Like, I think my, I've never done any, any, any testing. I did a 15 K race and, uh, but two years ago, two and half years ago. And i know that back then sort of my threshold heart rate was about 171, 172. That's definitely higher now as I'm coming back, but it was all in the low one seventies. So that it felt super, super crazy. The only issue with that is that I was, know,
00:44:28
Speaker
panicking and trying to find a toilet in the fourth rep. Oh, I hate that. Yeah. I got close and i was like, oh I think I'm okay. And then I veered away from it. And then I was like, oh no, I'm not okay. Nah, I'm the person that stops straight away. I'm like, nah, I'm not running uncomfortable.
00:44:42
Speaker
Yeah. but So, yeah, so that was, that was Tuesday and then a gym session in the afternoon. Wednesday was 90 minutes on trails, uh, keeping everything really easy using poles. So the climbs, um, well, actually, and I forgot my, uh, I forgot the lucky straps, uh, for this. So I was having to just hold the poles. Yeah. I, I got home, got in the shower and my triceps started cramping. Yeah. And I was like, oh that's, that's not a good feeling. So that's what the straps of all people do not just grip your poles. Yeah, straps really, really make a difference. Definitely definitely have a strap on hand
00:45:22
Speaker
ah your hand. Yeah, could cut that for the real, I reckon. That's great. i got i got so many I've got so many things I could say about that, but we won't. Moving on. I've got to move on. um So yeah, that was cool. ah And then Thursday thursday was a it was supposed to be a 75 minute flat run, but I miscalculated the route length in my head. So that ended up being closer to 90 minutes. um But it was again, very easy. One of the things I would say that coming back is, i'm my easies are very easy now. And that has made getting back into some volume feel so much more comfortable. Like
00:46:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:19
Speaker
it just just feels a lot nicer especially when i'm um i'm going out for like decentized runs
Organizing Trail Events and Endurance Building
00:46:25
Speaker
most days it just means that there's no barrier to like oh i've got to go and do this it just feels very comfortable yeah uh friday was a steady run i had half an hour easy and then 60 minutes steady um pretty much at what ao like aerobic threshold would feel like was gonna say what do you call steady like because this is one of the things i get asked all the time when i give my athletes steady runs and they're like yeah what is steady I think obviously it depends on the athlete because for someone a steady could be faster than their marathon pace by far depending on like what the marathon pace is or where the fitness is at. um For me this is one this is where a coach has given me like a bit of a heart rate guide so maxing out at 160 which would probably be about where the top of my zone 2 is right now which would
00:47:15
Speaker
yeah so um that was fun did that on single tracks it made me really appreciate how running on single tracks like I think a lot of people struggle with getting the coordination for them and the skill and getting like getting your eyesight ready for them my legs were getting cooked like the constant the little undulations all the stop start for the turns and I really enjoy running on single trails and I was just like geez this this stuff makes you strong yeah like moving with purpose over that sort of terrain. And it's been the same with getting back onto technical downhills is that I feel like a lot of, it's it's easy to to avoid them because you don't feel like youre good at them you don't enjoy them you worry about your ankles. But then the less you do, the worse you get and it keeps compounding and rolling down. And whereas coming back into it and being like, we'll do a, we have a single trail that's about two k
00:48:01
Speaker
um here and I'll get 1k down and my brain just feels like it's fried and my eyes go a bit glassy and then the next time I'm 1k and a half down and now I can do the whole thing without feeling like that but they're real skill things but yeah to running fast on single trails and the downhills have been highlighted a lot to me yeah and then saturday we so sunday we had the third round of the riverina trail series um at mount baranduda which is the mount like right by my back door so saturday i marked ah marked the course for like the long course part of it so that was the first half of my long run
00:48:36
Speaker
which took a bit longer because there'd been a load of storms and all treat like a bunch of trees had come down. i yeah had to drag a bunch of stuff out the way. And then about an hour 45 into my run, looped back around to the car, changed my vest, picked up Gerald and Hannah at the start of their run. And then we did...
00:48:53
Speaker
they They asked me for vert and technical. So I took them on every single goat track I know basically. Nice. And it was really good fun. It was pretty miserable day. It was sort of raining, but not really raining. That kind of like misty rain. We're in the clouds.
00:49:09
Speaker
I was loving it. It felt like that's like my perfect conditions for a race would be that kind of stuff because it feels very like I'm not just taking the piss. It feels like being in the UK. Yeah. And don't think Gerald and Hannah were quite enjoying my enthusiasm for the conditions. um Yes, so that went down well. And I think they've also decided that's just getting them used to the weather.
00:49:31
Speaker
Yeah, well, i I did say that. Like, it's it's probably better weather here than it is there. And the weekend before when Shiv and I ran with them, We designed a route that I based off, if anyone that's in the bright area knows, Timmy G, he's kind of, he's the guy that started Trails and Ls. So Victorian listeners will probably understand that reference. um He did this route back in January. and i was like, oh, that's cool. Kind of going out to Mount Beauty and doing ah doing a loop around there.
00:49:56
Speaker
And it was, there's definitely fire trails. They haven't been used in quite a long time. yeah one of them one go i think Yeah. So I think between last weekend and this weekend, I might be banned from any route planning now, yeah but it's been, it's been fun to get to know them a bit more and and just have have people that their goals are mountain based. And so you can go and just have fun and chat and spend and yeah three and a half hours with them. yeah And then also keep break up theirs. And then Sunday was the, ah the race. So that's early, early start was was pretty cool. Actually. We, so Matt who he's the RD and then for myself, it was our biggest ever numbers for the event.
00:50:37
Speaker
Uh, Matt's been involved with it for five years and I've been involved with it. my second year and, Mount Baranduda is the most traily, I was say like the most hilly, the most technical. And so to see that event be the biggest numbers we've had across any of those five years period was a pretty, yeah. Like when you put a lot of effort into growing this and trying to build something that the the community, you hope that the local community wants to take part in.
00:51:02
Speaker
And then you get... that feedback by them signing up and the numbers being up 20, 30% on what they were last year. It's, it feels pretty cool. it's And it's so sick, like seeing everyone go out there, we, as we'll get to with the results, but the, the women's field for the long course was just ridiculous. Um,
00:51:21
Speaker
nice Joe Dorff was up running. He's run this race three times. he's run i think he's run like 76 minutes, 79 minutes, and then he ran 78 minutes this year. 30 seconds back was Ellie Jackson. Nice. And Joe was running scared. Ellie doesn't have Strava, which isn't where i watch.
00:51:41
Speaker
But Ellie beat Joe up this climb that's had a lot of like good athletes run it. And Joe set the course record on the climb. So Ellie was ahead of the men's course record. Nice. yeah she She smashed the course record by like 13 minutes. But then they had SJ, Shiv, a lady called Tori Thomas as well from Mount Beauty. And then a lady called Nadia who was, I think she was fifth or sixth Buffalo 100K. So i could for ah a regional kind of essentially random race, a really stacked field, which was which was fun to see. so That was Sunday, finished finish up there. We're normally done by about midday, which is, again, it a nice morning. And then just went for went for a ah jog to the gym, gym session, jog time. So it's 6K for me to get to the gym, so it works out pretty nicely. so Nice. that i I love how that like you say that your focus is endurance and you can just tell from the week. like You don't need any and analysis to see that that's an endurance-based week because all the days are quite big and it's it's backing up day after day. And with how big you're doing on those days, especially from where you come, like, i don't, like, you it would be, like, horrible or feel even worse to be trying to do them any faster.
00:52:53
Speaker
Like, when I'm doing endurance blocks like that, it's like, okay, no, this is just all long and slow. Let's go. Like, get it done. love it. it couldn't like so Did you take some ah inspiration from Billy Curtis, it looks like, maybe in that week? he was saying he I saw in the in the interview, he said he didn't doesn't do barely anything over 145 heart rate.
00:53:10
Speaker
i ah i i I accidentally went well over that. i did Actually, I did say a Yeah, yeah. know that the I think and i think of the end of the uphill, I maxed... Yeah, I was touching like 176, 177. I think there was one there's one of the three-minute reps in the middle of it had a climb that was like a really douchey climb. But i again, I kept my foot down rather than packing off, and that that one hit 180. So i'm I'm not perfect. I will never say that. um But no, I can do...
00:53:43
Speaker
The way that we've we've kind of built this up, I couldn't do that if I was getting greedy and trying to run everything fast and make it look good for Strava. So like you'll see, I think my my run yesterday was, I think it was probably like 5.10 pace and my average high rate maybe in the mid one twenty s high 120s so and just cruising and it It felt really nice. It was just really pleasant. I love it. Listen to podcasts and jog up the jog up the rail trail. So love it yeah, no, it's, it's, it feels, feels cool. I feel like I'm at the point now where i I'm starting. Yeah.
00:54:16
Speaker
i I do have that trust again. Like I haven't actually thought about my leg from an injury perspective, um, for a couple of weeks. So yeah, i'm i'm aware I'm aware of all the other little things that are now showing up as I bring it all back in, but they all I get these little flare ups for a day or two and then they disappear again and then something else comes up and it's just everything readjusting. but Nice. it's Yeah, it's a it's a fun week and i haven't had haven't had a coach that's probably, ah maybe i had I had some coaches back in 2022 that were probably similar focused. Yeah. um Back then I think I was craving more speed work.
00:54:51
Speaker
um But now this is kind of, I didn't, the person i'm working with is not because I knew they were going to, program you know, there's actually no idea they're going to program. i I chose them because of the person that they they are and the way that they go about their coaching. Yeah.
00:55:06
Speaker
the fact that it's worked out like this, I was like, Oh, this is fun. So like this week it's very like ah tomorrow my sessions, two by 15 minutes uphill and then a two hours on Wednesday.
00:55:17
Speaker
And then and google got four hours on Saturday, which it sounds really sad to say we're hoping to be able to go and do the good loop, which is Harrietville up on a cord to the Razorback. not going to summit to to Mount Feathertop and back down Bungalow. We should not can that this time of year. That sucks. Yeah. So this is the thing. Like we're excited because both Shiv and have wanted to do this loop for the last two years, but neither of us have been to it. But we're gutted because we should not be able to do this in the end of June. Yeah, not a adultpe not at no, not all. I hope you can because it is a fun loop. But either way, um yes, folks, if you're listening, that's how to build endurance. Slow, slow, take it easy, get through each day. Like I love it. I love those phases where the focus isn't on any one day or any one session. It's just on ticking it all off one after the other, after the other, after the other, knowing that that is... achieving the goal yeah um so I love that I love that and then um I'll just quickly go through my week because it's in some ways very similar in some ways very different because my heart rate's definitely not that low um but it's a it's it's interesting because we're in a similar aim um I'm just not going about it in the way you are um I'm going about it in a different way where um
00:56:27
Speaker
Just my Mondays is always my easy day. Last week it was only 6K easy, um so 30 minutes. Today I bumped that up to 10K, so it goes up a bit. Actually, today I bumped it up to 10K plus a two-hour bike ride. Tim's decided to really dump me in the deep end at this point where my easy Monday is a 10K run and a two-hour bike ride.
00:56:47
Speaker
Um, but last week's track session, I've been adding on to all of the group's track sessions and not because I fit like for a different reason where I can't hit top end speed or I can hit top end speed, but it breaks me down too much. And there's no point in breaking myself down to build speed when I'm trying to race Trofeo Kima.
00:57:07
Speaker
I don't need the speed. I need the endurance. So what I've been doing is doing the group session, which in this case last week was four by one K 60 second rest, 400 two minute rest. But then I'll always add on at the end to make it so that my overall um speed work for the day is eight K. So I'll get eight K worth of track work in. um And I just I just want to hit eight K worth of work at 345 pace or faster is essentially what I want out of every Tuesday. So I added on just six by 400 off about 30 seconds, 100 meter jog because we do a 500 meter track here in Melbourne, um do it differently. And that's always then gym day. And I have actually got a new exercise physiologist that's written me two gym programs that are actually a lot of fun and have actually got me very sore because they're different. so it's been really good.
00:57:57
Speaker
In what ways they vary from how you're doing yourself? Well, because with Ehlers-Danlos, the main thing I need is a lot of isometrics. So there's a lot of isometrics, but these other than different ones. Like one that is killing me is like a hamstring bridge, single leg hamstring bridge, but the ball of my foot is on a foam roller.
00:58:14
Speaker
And then try and hold your heel up really high as well. And I'm holding that for 45 seconds on each leg. And I tell you what, if you want like feel like you're dying within 20 seconds, try and hold that damn thing because it hurts.
00:58:28
Speaker
But things like that. And then a a bit few more plyos which have challenged me, like just different ones because I would not be able to explain it in words. You'd have to watch it, so I'm not going to try. But it's just different exercises as well as the basics. I've still got my squats in there. I've still got um your usual core exercises. He's also added in some upper body, which I normally neglect, but because it's in my program now, I'll do it. um So, yeah, simple things, but simple things that are making me very sore.
00:58:55
Speaker
um And then Wednesdays at the moment, I, in the evening, do an uphill treadmill heat session. So we have Run Club here in Melbourne, which is like a it' like a spin class but with treadmills, essentially. Imagine a spin classroom, so dark room, bright lights, oh no, colourful lights, um but just with a bunch of treadmills in there. And they heat the room up to about 30, by the end it's about 33 degrees. And they have multiple humidifiers in the room as well going, as well as all the people sweating on the treadmills. And so it gets hot um in there and it's just a free like 45 to 55 minutes, depending on what time you get there. But I put the treadmill on this one. It was up at 13% the whole time. I pretty much just chuck it. like The treadmills don't like going to 15, I've realized it this gym so i put it at put it at 13 to keep the treadmill happy um and just go. And so this one, it was what, 6.6K with 850 meters gain in the humidity, which did mean that my average heart rate was what, 168? And by the end, I'm at 190-ish, 185. Didn't quite hit 190 this week, thank goodness. But I just leave the treadmill on the same pace the entire time and do my best to stay on the damn thing.
01:00:15
Speaker
um Previous weeks, this is the first week I have managed to stay on the treadmill at 13% and I think I had it at like 8km per hour, maybe a bit faster um and not slow it down. So I've done this like four weeks in a row now and it was like, oh, I did it a couple times before I went away and now after. And I was like, finally. But that last five minutes, I was staring at that damn thing going, this has got to end at some point. So i was pushing pretty hard, I'm going to say, the last 10 minutes there.
01:00:45
Speaker
Sim, from a heat training perspective, i haven't heard too many protocols where they're like they they're pushing themselves to that point. Are you doing it from the heat Well, so the only thing that's making it that hard is the heat.
01:00:57
Speaker
The pace I'm running at, if it wasn't hot, I would be able to hold fine. So from what I'm feeling is the heat, not the pace. Yeah, yeah. So like the the i like from my understanding with with heat training from this perspective is you kind of – you don't need your heart rate to be that high. You just allow the cardiac drift to drop your pace and you just move to kind of maintain that same level of heat strain. Yeah. Yeah. like the Yes. And I'm going to say if I was actually doing a heat training block, yes. yeah But I'm not actually doing this for the heat training. um I'm doing it because the rest of the group does it and I like the suffering. And also it's like i'm on a trip I love uphill treadmills, but this is my way to do it with a group of other people. And also i find it's actually better because I want to be able to run a steady pace for a long time up a climb. um
01:01:46
Speaker
Now, I could do it faster if I wasn't in the heat, obviously, but it's actually better for me at this point to do it slower. And what I'm mentally training at that point in time is the fact that like I was – 25 minutes into this and already wanted to slow the treadmill down. So at that point, it becomes that mental game of like, which I used to suck at on climbs of, I would slow down so early because I didn't know how long I could hold a pace for.
01:02:12
Speaker
It feels different on a climb than it does on the flat. And it feels like you have to slow down. And so this is like that mental game of constantly reassuring myself that no, you don't actually have to. And you'll have bad patches and you'll have good patches, which I did. There was times I'm like, hey, I just passed five minutes and I didn't even realize.
01:02:28
Speaker
And then it's like, why is this hurting? why It's not hurting. Why is this so hard again? yeah um But to me, it's – and I know my physiology is showing that, yes, I'm working hard. My heart rate's high. But it's the mental hardness that I'm there for, if that makes that make sense.
01:02:42
Speaker
Second question is, can you get out of your head the fact that all you're doing is breathing in other people's sweat? um Because that's what I just, I can't, both those rooms, like those environments, I just can't, yeah. I've honestly never even thought of it that way, but I don't think we are. Well, I've got a humidifier right next to me that's spurting out its own humid air. So I'm breathing in that too. I don't know. It doesn't bother me.
01:03:03
Speaker
Free electrolytes, James. Free electrolytes. Cool. I will say I go through. I will say to make this doable, I go through a litre and a half and 2,000 milligrams of sodium in 45 minutes during this.
01:03:19
Speaker
So I i am constantly. Everyone else has salt, so you must be. getting yeah um No, so im I am drinking and I am like hydrating and I hydrate all day in the lead up because with my current condition, it's like I just need this to be a good thing. And yeah, it's rebuilding some of the um confidence I guess I have in myself of that I can handle stuff like that now. So um happy days. And then I'm not actually too beat up on a Thursday, which this week I did what 17 Ks. Damn, I ran faster than I probably should have. But 17 Ks in an hour 20 for my Thursday sort of midweek long, I'm going to call it.
01:03:59
Speaker
um So what was my heart rate there? ah yeah, not too bad. 143 for which actually means I'm somewhat getting back to normal, um which is happy days. um And then for my session this week, I was actually really nervous about it and it was really long for where I'm at. It was three times Albert Park laps, but on the gravel, not on the road. So the gravel is about four point seven five k It's not quite five k um And it's just three laps progressive with 60 seconds rest between.
01:04:34
Speaker
i won't go into too much detail, but it was a bit of a shocker because the wind, um and I normally wouldn't complain about the wind, but this was not just wind. This was freaking, I think it was 30 k's per hour consistent with 50 to 60 k's per hour gusts. on this day at this time so it's pretty feral um but either way I did manage to still progress but I had to have very stern words with myself in between lap two and three because I almost pulled it and that for me is the thing that I'm currently dealing with of having gone so long where it did make more sense to pull out of sessions when they were feeling bad than to keep going. But now I'm back in the phase where everyone, where like I have permission to keep going and to push to actually being really tired. um
01:05:16
Speaker
it's It's having to rebuild that mental muscle again of no, you can push here. So in the end of the last lap, because I was running more at my natural speed, it actually felt the best out of all of them. However, again, i think it was, what, 19 minutes with an average heart rate of 179.
01:05:31
Speaker
um So heart rate's up, but I wouldn't have guessed that if I hadn't looked at it afterwards. Like I looked at it afterwards. I wouldn't have told you it was that high at the time. So not quite there. They're not quite together in that way yet, like my how I feel and what my heart rate's doing. um But then yeah, gym again that afternoon, 90 minute mountain bike ride on Saturday, which actually the hills at Listerfield, some of them had me, I was so pain, it was in so much pain trying to get up the damn hills um from my legs being tired. And then my legs were ridiculously tired again yesterday. So I had to run very slow. I think our average heart rate was 126 for about three and a half hours, 25K through Mount Dandenong. Um, and my plan heading out yesterday was actually to run three hours and Tim wanted me to cover 28K and I knew 10 minutes in that wasn't going to happen.
01:06:24
Speaker
So I opted because my main aim is the endurance, um, I haven't even told Tim this actually, he's probably still hasn't even seen the run, but I opted to go slower and just go, I'm just going to stay out here longer because I still want the distance, but I don't want to push my body to like I could have if I wanted to run that distance in three hours. I could have made it happen. But I would be in a wreck.
01:06:46
Speaker
So I was like, I want to finish this. And I did. I finished it when you're only averaging 120 something beats. Like I finished the run and just went about my day. Felt fine. Happy days. Off we go. It was slow. But if I had have tried to push, I would have been destroyed. for the rest of the day. So again, it's like that walking the line of choosing the days you can push through to be really tired, we like I did on Friday, and then going, okay, body, you've done good, we go easy today, um which I think is, that's one of the things i i I love having input in as a coach when I'm watching my athletes and they have a really ripper session today And sometimes they then go smash their long run.
01:07:23
Speaker
And I'm like, i I will be proactively going, you had a really good session. I want you to take it easy. Like I'm going to tell you beforehand that you have to take this easy, easy, like even easier than normal um because it's it's like that ah overall load for the week that you want to look at um because my load was quite high. That's my highest load week since in the return overall when you look at the numbers. um Yeah, I think – That was where I was like, okay, don't get carried away now. Suck up the ego and go really slow on Sunday.
01:07:55
Speaker
um But, yeah, it feels good to be tired. Why do you why do you think you're so tired by Sunday? Um, that was the longest session I've done in a long time.
01:08:06
Speaker
Um, that with this week we bumped everything up. So we bumped up the midweek long. There's normally only been like 10 K I did 17. The session has maybe been eight K's worth of work. I did 12, 13, 14, 13.
01:08:20
Speaker
Um, and then the Saturday, the I did a mountain bike instead of a trainer bike, which is more leg load again. yeah, It was, it's just I've bumped everything up essentially. Yeah, yeah. yeah um What was the, sorry, I was going to ask, what was the goal of the, as in the um three by roughly 5K? Like was that threshold or was it no particular zone?
01:08:50
Speaker
Tim doesn't give, and specifically because of the way that conditions can go and everything, he doesn't give specifics. um which I like and I've always operated off, hence why I think so deeply about my own training because he encourages it. So essentially it's you I have to progress.
01:09:07
Speaker
So I have to start that first lap knowing that I can progress for the second lap and the third lap. So that then helps. So the goal was to be faster in the second and then faster. More the effort was harder in the second and effort again harder in the third. Yeah, yeah. Like I went 20. Or had to progress speed.
01:09:26
Speaker
No, I had progressed. I went 20 minutes, 1940, and then 18.55. So you also progress yeah progress effort but also progress speed. Yeah. And every time I've done that workout, I'm always aiming for like 20 to 30 seconds faster per lap. And so that's where in the first couple of Ks of the first lap, that kind of dictates my pace for that lap because I need to be able to go in the back of my head, okay, can I get 30 seconds faster next lap and 30 seconds faster again when I'm most tired? Yeah. And that's when you know you've done it really wrong if you can't. And the fact that I could means essentially I then look at it and i go, okay, I did i did that fine.
01:10:03
Speaker
um The paces were all over the place because of the wind. But it's it's that knowing in yourself at the start of the session and going. and And this is one of the things I think I'm good at in training of going, well, here's the conditions. Here's how I feel. How do I? what pace do I need to run to actually still execute this session and make it yeah so that I progress? Like i' you almost never find me go backwards in a session, um partially because I love sandbagging the first few reps and partially because, yeah, exactly.
01:10:34
Speaker
um And because I'm just like, well, i'm not I'm not here to suffer. I'm here to execute a session the way it's been written and I need to progress. So there was no threshold, subthreshold. It was just progress each way. Yeah, yeah. More so, i guess mike in my head I was thinking like I understand the the goal that of the session but what's the session trying to achieve?
01:10:53
Speaker
Do you know that? Just I'm i'm really it and that it achieved that because my hamstrings, my quads, my glutes were all but like That was much harder muscularly than it was fatigue and effort-wise. So it's to work more on muscular system. Yeah, holding one pace for a longer period of time and then getting faster when it's like a steady pace is really,
01:11:16
Speaker
sore right now like I'm it's hard and I have to really focus even though my heart rate that second rep was the hardest because it's kind of that in between pace where I have to focus enough to keep running but I I'm like it's hurting enough that I'm feeling really tired so I have to i don't know it's just form essentially for that period of time um that I'm trying to work on but yeah it's um meeting session I'll tell you that Until we get to four. It'll get to four at some point. But however, that was, I hope everyone enjoyed. That was a long in the end training talk, but trying to give some insights into sort of how we go about things and where it might translate into what you're
Western States Race Predictions
01:11:59
Speaker
doing.
01:11:59
Speaker
A quick break in the show to thank Bix. Bix has just come out with their 30 gram gel in two brand new flavors. This is a new gel, new flavors. You've got the choice of the salted strawberry or the berry. The salted strawberry is also packing 300 milligrams of sodium as an increase, whereas the berry has 200 milligrams. Both make them perfect for the conditions we have in Australia, yeah whereas most gels on the market do not have sodium within them. What Bix has done here is take the recipe for the gels that work so well, that 1.8 ratio that is very, very friendly on the stomach and added a soft, subtle, but very tasty twist that you can dial in your race day and your training nutrition to that extra fine detail.
01:12:39
Speaker
As you know, Bix has been supporting the show from the start and it literally helps keep the podcast coming to you every week. So if you want to support the show, level up your own nutrition game, head over to the Bix website, use our brand new code PEAK, P-E-A-K, for 20% off at checkout. And with that, let's get back to the show.
01:12:56
Speaker
quick We don't have too much else to discuss this week. um However, I would love to get just a quick one from both of you and you're both going to fail me on the quick here. But Western States, western states give me your predictions.
01:13:09
Speaker
the king The kings of ah quick predictions. Yeah. but we can We can speak for three hours about this, Sim. I know. I know. But this can count as one of your head-to-heads, by the way.
01:13:21
Speaker
Oh, wow. I have not been following it that closely. Too bad. Yeah, for the yeah for the for for the women,
01:13:30
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Like, i I don't know people's current forms because I haven't been following it that closely. I'm very excited to see Jen Lichter run. um I think that will be very interesting to see how she goes over 100 miles. She's just been, like, so dominant in the shorter distance. Yeah.
01:13:47
Speaker
And she just looks so fast. So, ah yeah, if she can somehow translate that into 100 miles, I think she'll be hard to beat. um Apart from her ah like, look, there's there's just so many good women in this. um Like, Abby Holbe, defending champ, she's going to, like, I didn't expect her to win last year. um So, I guess if I'm...
01:14:13
Speaker
I don't know. if If you apply the same logic and I don't expect her to be up the top, then she will. So therefore, I'm going to do it i'm goingnna get around my head and she'll do it again. um Yeah, that's going to be exciting. Molly Seidel, just interesting to see. Like I don't think she's going to be in the top three or even maybe top five, but it's cool to see her there. Martina Milnachik.
01:14:39
Speaker
I'm excited to see her run her run. at She did CCC last year. Yeah, that was really impressive. um But yeah, do i have to give you it? Can I give you a first or am I giving you a top three?
01:14:51
Speaker
Depends. ahs ye Give me top three. Come on, you can pick it. and You can pick it. Well, okay i've i've I've made my free tale free trail fantasy picks. Okay. Go to him. cheating because he's already prepared and you're making me do this off the bat. ah I know. i will i so So my answer but was going to be, I want your top ten, Brody, not not just your –
01:15:14
Speaker
but I could do that, but we don't we don't have all night. So I'll do three. Let's do – I'm going to go ah Lichter first and I'm going to go Hall second.
01:15:30
Speaker
I have no idea how she's been training, but Martina Milnadschik in third. Yeah. either women I think on the women's side, Jen Ligtas to me is the most interesting storyline.
01:15:42
Speaker
She stepped up to the hundred K and nailed it. I think still had a a couple of, like still have definitely things to work on, but objectively like it was her then Anne Flower. Anne Flower is now dropped out of States and then followed by Tara Dower from memory. I think she was third in that race.
01:15:59
Speaker
Uh, And Jen just looked very calm. And they've put out, should Jen's je's got a bunch of stuff that's come out on YouTube. She's part of this training camp as well.
01:16:09
Speaker
with one of the the CTS coaches and like they're known for very high mileage, still for the athlete, specificity specificity, a lot of time on course. If she's coming in with that freshness and she's able to execute states like that with the same head, because it seemed like she had a very smart race head, which makes sense. She she was probably the best 50K runner in the world last year, maybe outside of Tove.
01:16:34
Speaker
So I think it's going to be interesting. I've i've got Jen i've got je to win, which is it's her first miler. So she's probably going to, she's probably win all DNF slash walk it in. i was going to say that's a brave call. it Yeah, I was umming and ahhing. Seems most people are Western States, isn't it? true And we've got until the weekend to actually lock these in. I'm sure people will drop out in that time as well. I've put Tara Dara for a second and then I've got Abbey Hall in for third.
01:17:00
Speaker
um ah Yeah, I agree with your your pick about Martina Brody. I do have her in my top 10, but I think that There's always going to be women, women less so than men, but someone's always going to have a bad day. That's just the case of it.
01:17:16
Speaker
I just, I feel like people are getting more and more dialed to this. You're hearing some of the interviews, FreeTrails put out five or six with the men so far, they've got the with the women to follow and everyone's just, there's just so much, so much more dialing in now than what there it was even two, three years ago. Like, yeah.
01:17:37
Speaker
it's kind of, likes there's there's not a recipe because there's different approaches. Like on the men's side, that you've got Jim versus say like Jeff McGavro and Adam Peterman versus someone like Hans Troyer following very different training approaches. um Like Hans being under David Roach and Adam and Jeff being under um CTS. Then you've got like Dan Jones under ah Robbie Britton. So it's kind of, it's really interesting. One of the names in the men's field that I'm super curious to see how he goes. I've only put him eighth.
01:18:08
Speaker
but i do think he could be on the podium is thomas codden he won uh kianti and basically like his post-race uh interviews were like yeah i've been doing this for years in europe just i don't shout about it and i don't do the us races like i'm this good and i just i just loved loved the confidence i think it was his first was like 120k whatever it um
01:18:34
Speaker
i I feel like it that approach could also backfire on a Western States when you have Jim Womsey in the field. If there's anybody that's probably going to go with Jim's first move, it might be Thomas. But yeah, so I've got, ah you can't, I think if you bet against Jim,
01:18:49
Speaker
at states you're yeah it's yeah i don't think it's it's worth doing so uh jim for first i've got jeff mcgavro for second and then hans troyer in for third um nice yeah so is killian still running uh killian is still running his knees average he is running now which is good he wasn't running for like four weeks two weeks ago yeah okay but i don't have killian in my top 10.
01:19:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I didn't realize it didn't. Yeah, the field's so good that, yeah, you have to be in shape to be competitive, even if you are killing. The way these guys are thinking, like,
01:19:25
Speaker
the conversation has always been about can you break the course record can we break 14 I'm sure that that is a thought but they're just trying to win and I think to win this year and the conditions are looking favourable it's going to take something into the low 1350s to 1340s like it sounds like a lot of these guys think there's time on this course um with the right field and I think that you've got the right field you've got like Hayden Hawks in there Adam Peterman Dan Jones Zach Miller Anthony Costalis Will Murray like those are guys in my top 10 and that's leaving out a lot of people that could very easily podium this race so yeah wait who else did you have in your women's top 10 um so going fourth down Emily Horgood Caitlin Fielder Martina Monarcha kind of all good Fiona Pascal Riley Brady Holly Ranson no Molly Seidel no she'll DNF
01:20:12
Speaker
Oh, good. That was a very quick call. I say that because we we are a tiny Australian podcast and I was ever going to listen to that. But no, I just, I think that the, the caliber of 100 mile athletes or athletes that have so much trail pedigree in this field, it's going to be, it would be really hard. I think for someone like Molly to actually fully let go of that and not get swept away with it. And I just, I don't see the benefit to Molly of walking it in.
01:20:43
Speaker
Like she doesn't need to get a hundred mile finish. She's there to compete. So yeah if if the day isn't going quite to plan, I don't think she's going to do a a walk it in approach. I think she'd be like, cool.
01:20:53
Speaker
I've learned the first X distance. Let's go away and let's come back next year and and and do it. Yeah, I hear. I do hear that. Good definition. I still think we should cut that clip and then we will be a big podcast. Maybe cut the clip out. No, no, no. Like I do hear you. The reasoning is is sound. It just like i'm I'm one of the people just hoping Molly goes for it and just hangs.
01:21:23
Speaker
for me. like But then again, it's it's it's half, six of one, half a dozen of the other for what way it can go whenever a new athlete is coming in that you know, as you said, has that mindset of, well, I'm in it. I'm not here to jog along. So like I'm going to put myself in it. And then that is where things hit the fan or go well.
01:21:42
Speaker
And it's like a risk reward. I just, and unless you are somebody that has had a list of DNFs recently, especially at a particular race or a particular distance, when this is your job, I do not understand walking it in and death marching it in.
01:21:58
Speaker
i think it does it does a lot of respect to the race. You're respecting everybody else who's out there to get this done that has to wait 10 years to get into this. But your income is based on your body and yeah the risk you're putting yourself in by forcing that last 40 miles is huge. Well, and it depends how long.
01:22:15
Speaker
If it's five miles, go, keep going. Yeah, so yeah if it's five miles, sorry. I'm i'm thinking more like in in my head, I've got Adam, like Adam Peaseman last year who basically walks it in for 60 miles. Yeah, fair. And it's for him, it sounded like the complete right thing to do. And I don't think he got any particular bad repercussions from that. But yeah, I don't know. I just, I wouldn't put my body through that unnecessarily if this was my way of making money.
01:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, fair. No, no, no. It's a very, very good call. And even people who are making money, like I think we've seen some like sub-elites, even on the Australian level this year, who have finished races where they didn't go to plan and they really suffered through the last two, three hours and then have a really hard four weeks afterwards or four to six weeks afterwards. Yeah.
01:22:57
Speaker
that maybe they could have avoided. I've just death marched in my last two. so well And actually I would say. i wasn't pointing fingers at you, Sim, but I just think. I have reasons, I swear, guys.
01:23:09
Speaker
If you're trying to have a performance mindset, then i think i'm I'm very, I know the other side of the the argument that you should finish, but I'm i'm a very much a supporter of pulling the pin when you need to pull the pin. Yeah.
01:23:22
Speaker
yeah and before i think i had three dns in a row and no matter what happened the next race that i would that i did i was finishing yeah and i think in in that sense like the negative thought cycle it feeds is not worth it i think at ah a local or a domestic level when you're when you're developing you're growing you obviously are always running the risk of injuries but sometimes you have to learn that you can feel like you're knocking on death door, but then half an hour later you come good again. And maybe you've just got dehydrated or the, so I think there is a benefit a bit to there. i agree that like, if you're, if you're feeling something's wrong with your body and you're pushing it to the end, then yeah i think it's questionable, but for the, like everyone at this level, they understand their body. They know the mindset, like they've got themselves to a professional trail runner. I think, and for me, that's like not clear cut, but more clear cut.
01:24:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Brody, who's your top three? Yeah. Men, I think like Jim's hard to go past. Come on, bet against him, I dare you.
01:24:22
Speaker
No, it's just like like if any year he's going to lose was either last year when he was injured or or this year because of the field. like Like the field is crazy. There's probably like five guys that I'd be comfortable to say that could beat him. Yeah.
01:24:39
Speaker
Whereas I'm not sure we've seen that as much in recent years. You would have said he was the standout favorite and I think he's still the favorite. So I'm going to pick him. um And then I'm going Hans Troyer and then I'm going our boy Danny Jones.
01:24:53
Speaker
was going to say, come on, Dan Jones in there somewhere. Let's go. I would love to see it. I know Dan wants to win, but I think it'd be great to see him on the podium. And like it just looks like he's been putting out some amazing work. He's probably the person I've watched the closest. So he's the only one I actually know how has been training. I'm sure the other guys have been doing a lot. um But yeah, I'd love to see Dan on the podium. And yeah, Hans Troy just looks like such a talent, I think. Yeah.
01:25:19
Speaker
Yeah, i I'm not sure how he'll go this, yeah, like the 100 miles, but um yeah, I think he's on the trajectory. I think he's M9 from last year. Yeah, he was in last year. Yeah, yeah. yeah so I think like and and had a a rough day but still got it done.
01:25:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think he's my risky pick, I reckon, but I think if he pulls it off, he'll pull it off and be up there. I think Hans is probably the one that if I'm looking at this list and I'm thinking who actually could beat Jim, he's probably the one.
01:25:53
Speaker
Yeah, nice. Even though I've put him third. So I don't know if you noticed, I didn't have him in. Yeah, is he injured? was going say, you didn't have Puppey in either. I haven't seen much recently. I just, I don't...
01:26:06
Speaker
ah ah It's really tricky. So like I think he's someone that we' they probably will finish. um Again, first time stepping up to the minor distance, he's had a really tricky, like he dislocated his shoulder, ah canyons, think it was canyons or black canyon. Then he broke his arm falling um like on a hike. like He's had a pretty tricky buildup and it just sounds like he's either running loads or he's injured.
01:26:28
Speaker
And he kind of forces himself through a lot, just listening to his interview. So yeah, that's probably on the men's side. I feel like that's more of a risky call, not being in the top 10 than Killian, but then it's Killian. I don't know. You've got make some brash decisions and get...
01:26:45
Speaker
I'm completely wrong. but Well, like you said, the depth is crazy there. You've got like Adam Peterman, Hayden Hawks, Will Murray. like There's so many guys there that it it is going to be easy to get knocked out of the top 10 in both the women's and the men's. If only comes 10th in the women's, that would be a fantastic result.
01:27:03
Speaker
And she can, but like it would be there's so many really good women running that a 10th is going to be really solid this year. As it has been other years, but like this year I think particularly. Last year we saw Hiroki Kai come into 10th, like last minute.
01:27:20
Speaker
And he did that by not going out too fast and kind of picking up the the carnage that happened at the front of the men's field. yeah i just i There's so many men in this field and women that I just don't think you can do that anymore. The the exception, when I look at my women's field,
01:27:37
Speaker
The person that I've got in there that I think might do that is Holly. But I think there's maybe like maybe there's one spot in each field. Is it because there's so many coming back compared to mourn many years? Like why is it this year? Like the same amount of golden ticket entries, but is it more return winners? There's some sponsor spots I know. Like why is the field so crazy this year?
01:27:58
Speaker
Yeah, I don't i i don't know. it It definitely leveled up a lot at Canyons when Adam, Zach, and but my brain, Hayden, got in. i think that and then And then you had Jim getting the sponsor ticket.
01:28:12
Speaker
And then there hasn't really been so far that much attrition. David Sinclair is out, which that's a real shame because he just had an incredible Transwagania. Yeah, i was and Anne Flowers. And then Anne Flowers out.
01:28:26
Speaker
But yes, there hasn't been that there there isn't that many men returning. You've got... It's a lot of women though. Yeah, you've M3, 4, 5, 7, 8 and 10. So you've lost M1 and M2. And we've got F1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10.
01:28:41
Speaker
ah So yeah, you've got a a lot of the top 10s returning. And then it just it just seems to be that like the who's who of trail running got a golden ticket. Yeah, the golden the golden ticket winners are a bit at higher level maybe than they. think that's the difference for this one.
01:28:56
Speaker
But, yeah, no, and it was definitely, I was going to say, we could probably go on for hours about Western States alone, but it's going to it's going to all pan out in, what, one week or so. Usually it's pretty good viewing time for some of the crux of the race over in Oz here. um Yeah, on a Sunday because it'll be Saturday. Yeah, it' so and and I know it's a Sunday because the last two years in a row I've been on a long run in Mount Dandenong with the live stream playing and I'm just listening to the live stream as I'm running along. um It's a great way to get a run done. um
01:29:26
Speaker
but just Sorry, Sam, one thing. I just had a quick look at the ah entrance list. There's two guys in this, I think, yeah, two guys that have finished Western States 15 times.
01:29:37
Speaker
Yeah, nice. That's pretty cool. That's cool. Lucky. There's not many people that would get that chance. um That's for sure. But either way, it is always exciting. And I think what makes it exciting is, as you've said, the fields and the how much um people get around it and that the fact that you just don't really know what could happen. It's 100 miles. It's... It's incredibly unpredictable for even the best of the best because of how long the distance is and how much you have to have it dialed. So happy ah watching for everyone next weekend. We will have the results to recap in the next episode, which is always going to be a bit exciting. And we'll have... um
01:30:16
Speaker
Hopefully we'll be able to at least get a brief word from Holly about her experience, um even if it's just a quote from her for next week's ep before we hopefully have a chat to
Race Recaps and Controversies
01:30:25
Speaker
her. But but keeping it within, i think, Olympic Valley um as where ah Western States is, there was already Broken Arrow Sky Race, which how much of this did you guys watch?
01:30:38
Speaker
I've re-watched the VK, the 23K, or the DSN. I haven't haven't looked at the but yeah. It's been too late for me. Yeah, I had to re-watch. um Yeah, I re-watched some of it.
01:30:51
Speaker
It wasn't one, that and I didn't re-watch the whole thing, but the women's finish in the 23K was wild. um So cool. Worth a watch. Yeah, yeah. yeah Like the women's ascent finish and the women's 23K finish was incredible. Like it's just, well, yeah, spoiler if you're going to go and watch it. But like in the ascent, you had um an overtake in what, the last 10, 20 meters of the race. um Anna Gibson overtaking Joyce and Jero. And then you had...
01:31:27
Speaker
like I clear clear first in the 23K, but then Joyce getting overtaken by Lauren and then Tabor Hemming, like they came through the finish together. Eventually, Joyce got given it just ahead of Tabor. Honestly, I just want them to give it to both of them. because might like When I watch it back, every time I watch it back, I'm like, Tabor gets ahead of her just slightly if you ask me. But then the the bell and the finish arch, it's quite narrow. And I'm like, to me, they crossed they crossed the line together, guys. Like, like give it to her.
01:31:59
Speaker
I would rally for Tabor to get ahead. Just because they weren't like racing for the finish line. It wasn't like Joyce dipped or anything. She like really went for the bell. I was like, that's the craziest thing that she went to ring the bell in a sprint finish. I was like, that is ball. But also, if you look where the timing that is, it's just after the bell. And because of the jump, then she ends up just a tiny bit ahead. And I'm like, either way, every time I watch it, I'm like, nah, give them both third. Come on, guys. Like this is a no-brainer if you ask me. We are not a sprint. Like we do not need to go to photo finish. They both came third.
01:32:34
Speaker
But that's just my opinion either way. But still, how exciting of a finish. Madalena, I love Madalena so much. She's one of the kindest, most incredible people you will ever meet.
01:32:45
Speaker
um And then when she just goes and obliterates these sorts of things, it's just I love it when someone that you know is such an incredible human being also is then able to do what she can do. um And, yeah, so that now women's finish with Madalena then – um Lauren. Lauren came home like a steam train.
01:33:09
Speaker
um But that makes sense because she can kick. um But either way, on that was the women's. Then on the men's, I just realized I've got the ascent open, not the… You had Philemon finally take out a win. I was going to over Elhuzine. Which was just like well watching this happen.
01:33:27
Speaker
Philemon was ahead. Elhuzine comes up from behind. And at that point, they're like sending it down this fire road coming off the ski slope. And you kind of think, okay, this is done. This is Elhuzine. He's done it again. He's controlled the race from second. And then Philemon just responds. And he's just gone. Yeah. and then but to do so cuts up the inside of elizine elizine chucks an elbow philemon gives him a look keeps pushing forward and that's that's it and i think like it just breaks elizine actually thought because there was going to be a race because elizine has struggled in the altitude before this is maybe the one but it i eventually hear him talk about it but didn't necessarily look like it yeah i think philemon just really wanted this one
01:34:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It was only 12 seconds. And I will say, i think it was Philemon as well, but it might've been Patrick that him and El Huzin having the sprint finish in America. yeah think that was phil ah Patrick. That was Patrick. Okay. Either way with Philemon and Patrick being so close, I can almost guarantee that with like, if it was a and sort of argy bargy elbow throat, like that would have just spurred him on and he's, he's gone. um Which that's that moment where you're just like, thank you for that adrenaline rush. Off I go. um But it still was only 13 seconds in the end with,
01:34:37
Speaker
Patrick coming across the line then, um which I did also love because of the timings. Madalena comes across the line first and then you've got Philemon coming across the line um after. And if you actually looked at the finish shots of the women's sprint finish for um the second, third, fourth, you can actually see Patrick kind of giving them space at the back because he didn't have anyone behind him. So Patrick was in the finish shoot at the exact same time. um But he gave everyone space and I was like, thank you, you legend. um Because here he did have Gap behind him. um But yeah, Philemon, Elhazine, Patrick.
01:35:09
Speaker
and We did have Lara Hamilton. She was there in the just in the ascent in the end. and She came 23rd. Everyone hopefully might have listened to ah episodes that we've had with Lara Hamilton. And she does have ankylosing spondylitis and she did unfortunately have a flare on the weekend. um And so she didn't end up starting the 23K, which, yeah, I've always, always feel so much for her.
01:35:37
Speaker
um Then we had Beth McKenzie coming 10th in the 46K, which that's pretty good for her. I'm here to have fun and jog. Yeah, very good.
01:35:49
Speaker
Yeah. um She's done incredibly well there. And I will say one of my things I was looking at in the 46K, it was won by Eli Hemming on the men's side, but seeing Dani back on the women's side, that's Dani Moreno, she's had an absolute horrid run with fractures and injuries and all sorts of things going wrong with her toes and feet and um yeah seeing her back that emotional finish it's one of those ones I watch and I'm like almost in tears myself going I can see how much that means to you so it was very very cool to see um bringing it home we've got some results from actually James I may as well chuck it to you go through Mount Baranduda first
01:36:29
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So I probably should get this one open. So Baranduda for the long course, like 850, 900 meters. it's's It's a fun one. As I said, we had a pretty competitive women's race. In the end, Ellie Jackson, she took out the win. She's kind of redefining all our course records, getting very close to the men's. I think Matt Doré, who holds the long course record here, he was kind of getting pretty nervous when we we heard how fast Ellie was going. So she took the win 1.19.21. So SJ, Sarah Jane Miller, second in 128.57. And then Nadia Birch, 129.22. I think all five of the five top women all broke the old course record. Nice.
01:37:10
Speaker
SJ has previously run on this course. We've had yeah a lot of people really pushing it. On the men's side, Joe Dorff, he came back. He's recovered very well off his GPT-100 that he did during the training camp.
01:37:22
Speaker
He ran 118.42, Rory Parnell 121.06 and then Jordi Probot 123.22 and then on the women's side Amy Sullivan took the win the short course in 32.41 which was think another course record for her this year and then Morgan Payne to the men in 28.11. Very nice. Could do an uphill race there, James? Like a pure uphill race? You could definitely do uphill race. The issue is you can only get – in one climb, you can get 700, 650. So that's kind of your max. If you were talking about like uphill national champ sort of thing, it be pretty similar but steeper than doing it at –
01:38:01
Speaker
tenant uh act yeah same amount of the less deep version if you did the 600 700 meters uh what would that be because i saw on the route and there's one steeper and one slightly less steep ah ah So to get to get up onto the ridge, you've kind of got, you've got one, well, ah official trails. You've got one single track that averages about 20% and then you've got three fire roads that average about 17% and then the the longest fire road averages 13%, which is maybe three and a half K to get up there.
01:38:35
Speaker
um yeah yeah and it's cool Yeah, it's a cool spot. Like it's where we we run it out of. we Add it to um Ian Bess VK Cup. yeah yeah Not a VK. Mountain running cup. Not quite a VK. that a yeah Mountain running cup.
01:38:50
Speaker
Yeah, there's it would be it's a good spot. Given its access, it's it's it's yeah it's pretty good. I was just looking at it, looked good, especially if was fire road because it's a bit easier to get a some sort of finished stuff up to the top if you needed to. Yeah, you can easily, like we we had one one lady who who rolled her ankles on the way down the descent and it was pretty wet and muddy, but we could still get a four-wheel drive up there and it's a popular spot for four-wheel driving. So you can get up to the ridge super easily. You can actually access it from the far side where it has essentially like a normal four-wheel management road up to the tower up there and you can drive down the ridge so yeah definitely it's a it's it's my favorite of the five obviously it's out my back door but it's also it feels like the most challenging and adventurous of them and you kind of feel like you're really out in the middle nowhere even though you're just 10 minutes outside for longer so yeah fun series fun race
01:39:44
Speaker
Very, very nice. um I'll quickly take us to Surf Coast before, James, it looks like you've got an Strava and everything ready for Cohen Winter Trail. But at Surf Coast in the marathon, it was won on the women's by Jade Bucklow in 3 hours 33, very close behind Nicole Varand in 3 hours 35, and Adi Sliqua in 3 hours 42. On the men's side, Braden Turner, 301, Lachlan Wright, 307, and Julian Bramucci, 312.
01:40:13
Speaker
The half marathon was won on the women's side by Brooke Williams. And this was very close because it was 1.41.10 to then Kelly Angel in 1.41.25. So they had a very good battle out there on the day. Tamika Day came in third in 1.54. On the men's side, it was won by Mark Corbin, 1.32, followed by Sam Maffitt in 1.35 and William Clearfield in 1.41.17, which makes Brooke...
01:40:39
Speaker
Third outright and put someone between Brooke and Kelly. So that would have been a fun little finish there with three of them coming in. Oh, wow. Very close together. That's a very fun course.
01:40:49
Speaker
Back on the trails again. he's um He must be the most raced person or the person we've said the most in the result, i think. Yeah. Yeah. Always, always. But, yeah, James, take us to what happened at Cohen.
01:41:02
Speaker
So yeah, this, this one came as a bit of a surprise, uh, to me when I was looking at results in the marathon, the men's winner was Patrick Clark. We're in three hours, 12 flat. I had to double check that one because we we haven't seen Patrick step up to this kind of distance before. I also appreciated, i think he's been doing some of his own shoe cobbling. So he's been taking off the, um, outsoles from road, super shoes and putting Vibram outsoles on. I know he's made a VK shoe for Ian. And he, yeah, did did the whole race in in them. So yeah, he took the win, three hours, 12. Harrison Flynn, who's part of the single track hat trail team, three hours, 20, 33, which given the credentials of Patrick, I'm assuming this was his first marathon, but i still think that's a very good run for Harrison to be that close. And then Dylan Hull,
01:41:48
Speaker
third 325-34. On the women's side, we had Britt Harridan, so three fifty thirty five ahead of Chana Marsh, 405-52, and then Cassie Cohen, 410-19. And they also had the half marathon there, which Samuel McCabe took out the win in 27. Another close race from James Barker, 128.40 on the women's side. Cetely Reid took the win there in 146.35. And then we also had a couple of guys we're familiar with. Ben Butler took the win in the twelve k in 44.49. Toby Lang second On the women's side,
01:42:23
Speaker
vanda muhlinggraf in one hour and thirty four seconds From Justine Hobson in one hour and 47 seconds. From Matilda Stevenson in one hour and 48 seconds. That is a race.
01:42:36
Speaker
Damn. that is I love seeing this. that That's what, 15 seconds between top three? Yeah. who Justine's an oriental. She was in the World Champs team with me last year. She usually would do shorter stuff, I guess. so Maybe she got a good kick. No. Oh, damn. Yeah, well, yeah, outdipping someone by one second. That sounds like a lot of fun, that one. Love that. Awesome. Brodie, take us to Kiyama and the Tassie races.
01:43:06
Speaker
Yeah, so we had Kiyama Coastal Classic in that is in New South Wales, I believe. um In the 21K, we had Tom Gladwin took the win in and Jack Stratton was second, 132-20.
01:43:22
Speaker
Soper 133-53, so pretty close there and pretty close again in the women's...
01:43:32
Speaker
Two people with the same name, maybe sisters, cousins. I reckon has got to be sisters, sisterly rivalry. There you go. Grace Harrison took the win in 148-18 and Ruby Harrison took second in one fifty two fifty nine and Sophie Brown was third in some... close racing there as well there was also 12k benjamin merrick won that in the 15 to 19 category 48 48 and in the women also 15 to 19 category caitlin hogan in 54 44 so that's cool to see some young guns having a crack there
01:44:11
Speaker
That being said, I want to give a shout-out now that I see this, that the 12K was won in by a guy in the 15 to 19. Second place was in 60 to 69 before another 15 to 19. Yeah, true. I didn't know you could recognise that. That's wild. Gary Wheeler.
01:44:25
Speaker
I'd love to see that podium, actually. know. Oh, that would be great. And it wasn't even by that much. It was two minutes and then he had another 15 to 19-year-old coming up one minute behind him. So go Gary. Awesome. Awesome work, Gary. Shout out there.
01:44:40
Speaker
Well done. um There was also 5K. So harris Harry Nicholson won in 21.01 and Lauren Cracknell won in 26.10. Nice. go nice down This is apparently a very beautiful race.
01:44:55
Speaker
It looks nice. there's a picture at the top just along the coast there. I think Kayam is like south of Newcastle. So it's sort of like top south coast. Yeah. um We also are talking of beautiful races. We had ah the Freyse Trail Run down in Tassie. So that's like probably one of the most spectacular places to go. go hiking, let alone running. um Very cool loop. the The full loop there's quite cool. It's um you run a run along sort of up through the hazards, ah then down onto Wineglass Bay Beach, run along Wineglass Beach and then and then climb up Mount Graham and Mount Freycinet or one of them. um And then it's like an awesome view from there back to Wineglass Bay. So, yeah, pretty cool course. there
01:45:41
Speaker
Yeah, that's the 29K. So the winner there in the women's was Amy Lamprecht. She won in 3 hours, 17.36. Second was Jessica Collins hours, And third was Kate in So,
01:45:59
Speaker
Pretty close racing there and all of those names pretty well-renowned, so a good race. um In the men's rider, Jampson actually took the took the win over Alex Hunt by just over a minute. So he won in two hours, 44.17. Alex Hunt, who we've spoken a bit about on here before, very well-known multi-sport athlete, 245.20. Jerome came third in two hours 53-40 in the 11K.
01:46:32
Speaker
Thomas Merton took the win in the men in 51-11 and Ivy Rapley, who is 14. She's an orientator actually. One hour, 10, 57. Very cool. She only won 25 seconds or so?
01:46:47
Speaker
26 seconds there? Over Jacinta McGore. Ivy's from my orientarian club actually. so Very cool. I did not know that she won that. my my volunteering club in launceston so good on your ivy ah was there another race as yeah i was sorry just just in case uh someone from kayama comes and hand to has a go at you it's uh south of wollongong not south of uh newcastle oh yeah sorry no that's what i was thinking in my head but i didn't say it like that to thank you we we were staying near there over christmas and it's a beautiful way i looked at the photo like i recognize that track is a beautiful spot
01:47:25
Speaker
Why did you have to fact check me? Yeah, no. It's best you're going now. Yeah, it is. It is. um Brodie, there was also the Knockers Kanani Trail Series.
01:47:36
Speaker
Yes. I think this knockers was at nighttime. Yeah. I think it's part of 6 p.m. or something. hour run Yeah. So part of, I think Dark Mofo is happening down there at the moment. So it's sort of maybe sort of alongside that. um So it was, how far?
01:47:53
Speaker
actually don't know. 11K. 11K. Well, it's pretty quick. Samothy Wilfordius, who I think is Sam Wulford, but he's changed his name. I going to say, is that Sam Wulford?
01:48:06
Speaker
It looks suspiciously like it and he's beaten two pretty quick people. So it's either someone I've never heard of beating Titch and Andrew Gaskell or at Sam Wolford in Titch Hagger in second in 43-20 and Andrew Gaskell in third in 45-33. Now that's a very orienteering thing to do. Sam is being a Wolford. I'm not going to comment on whether we should or shouldn't be here.
01:48:32
Speaker
Doing that. Anyway, on to the women. In the win was Isabella Comfort in 55.17, Melissa Robertson in second in 57.57, and Danielle Barber in 59.10.
01:48:46
Speaker
A lot of racing happening down in Tassie this weekend. Everyone was out and about as well. Yeah. i love I love that we can just get like, you can see where all the people pop up in the local races in each state, which takes us to Queensland where there was the Curtis Island trail run. ah Do we know where Curtis Island is? Have we looked that up?
01:49:08
Speaker
In Queensland? Yep. Yeah. ah Great. I thought you were just joking notto it didn need the last No. Either way, the 6K on the women's side was won by Shana Patterson in 27.39, the six count on the male side by Sunny Ballard in 27.42. So that means that the 6K female won by four seconds over the male. I love that sprint finish between first but female and first male.
01:49:40
Speaker
Go, these women. Epic. um Could be a very young girl, to be fair. But um this being the 6K, the 14K overall, we had, again, a women's winner by 20 seconds. The fourteen k female was one females was won by in hour the men's was won by Stephen Stanhope in hour so women open slu Also so very close races. That'd be fun to be a part of It looks like time. Curtis Island near Rockhampton, so it's sort of like mid-Queensland Coast.
01:50:19
Speaker
Okay, yep, I get where you are now. Awesome. ah Then the last one was the 22K, which on the men's side was won by Jack Smith in an hour 38 and the women's side was won by Sandy Leach in two hours and two. Actually, I like that side that time. She ran two hours and two se two minutes and 22 seconds. However, it was 22.3, so of a second faster. one-tenth faster.
01:50:48
Speaker
ah one Yeah, that one, one-tenth faster. would have been all twos. But finally, for the last race we had in WA, there was Snakes and Ladders, just to bring the whole country into this one because it was a busy weekend.
Upcoming Running Events Preview
01:51:01
Speaker
They had the Black Course, which was won on the women's side by Jamie Stevens in two hours and eight minutes, and on the men's side by Connor Dale in an hour 44 minutes. The blue race, um the medium distance was won by on the females by Jolie Patterson in 52 minutes and on the men's side by Zach Thomas in 46.
01:51:23
Speaker
And then the green, which was won on the women's side by Emily Murray in 27 minutes and on the men's side by Nick Errol in 26 minutes. So pretty close there too.
01:51:35
Speaker
That's a lot of races for the weekend, um which does not stop next weekend either because obviously there is Western States. We've chatted about that a lot. But there is also the Byron Rainforest Run in New South Wales, the Newcastle Cross Country King of the Mountain in New South Wales. That sounds like a bit of fun. to to look that one up. Half of the Hill in New South Wales.
01:51:58
Speaker
That one I'm intrigued by. Why are they running half of the hill? um but Half half on the hill. Oh. assuming that running a half marathon on the hill. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Ignore me. They're running a half marathon up half of the hill.
01:52:13
Speaker
yeah I thought it said half off the hill, but that's because I had my cursor there and I was screwing with my brain. Either way, half on the hill in New South Wales. Lofty's Revenge Ultramarathon in South Australia. Wondai Country Running Festival in Queensland. Rock and Reef Bowen Trail Run, also in Queensland. Another King of the Mountain, but this time in WA.
01:52:36
Speaker
And the Sree Chinmoy Canberra Trail Series, the Ainsley Amble in Canberra. So no doubt we'll see plenty of people out again next week too because that's a lot of races around the country. But that brings us to the end of this episode. James, what you got coming up this week? running coaching my brain just a blank sorry I haven't had dinner yet and it's 8 30 and I'm really hungry I have a week to kind of settle but obviously because we're going away in two half weeks and just coming off the back of Riverina so yeah kind of all guns blazing get everything ready for that and yeah nothing nothing too exciting which is quite nice I quite like routine Nice, nice. Love that. And Brodie, what have you got coming up? Back at work, which is good. Go see the physio, see if we can progress a bit. World Cup's on. I've been loving that.
01:53:26
Speaker
Been very good. There's a lot to watch. World Cup, Diamond Leagues. The odd trail race. There's Orienteering World Champs, Junior World Champs actually coming up next weekend. i'm One of my athletes is running, so sure that's very exciting. um And then World Champs will be on. ah There's so much so much good stuff. Lucky I've got my bike trainer set up.
01:53:47
Speaker
Did he just freeze for you too, James? You guys are looking at me weird, so I must have frozen.
01:53:55
Speaker
What did i last say? ah World Champs will be on. anyway anyway Doesn't matter. Yeah, that was roughly You can just cut me out after that. Yeah, it's cool. um ah And yeah, for me, it is literally just training. I think I have my first hill session back, like hard hill session back on Friday, and I'm already semi-dreading it. I think it's like 20 by 200 uphill.
01:54:18
Speaker
or something stupid that's going to hurt. So its essentially just training for me. And no, Brody's back. Brody, we just lost you when you came back. But either way, that that signs us out for this episode. So thank you everyone for listening and bearing with us. and yeah Any questions, any follow-up um topics that you guys want covered, by all means, just message them through. We're happy to cover every anything, including ah guest requests um and the like. But until then, we'll all speak to you next week. so Thank you, guys. Thanks for everyone listening.