Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
UTA 22 Recap with Bridget Lunn, Junior/Youth Participation in Ultras and Erniold Melbourne Trail Tee Review | Episode 112
376 Plays1 day ago
In this episode brought to you by Erniold, Brodie and James sit down with Bridget Lunn to cover her amazing 2026 season so far, including representing Australia at the World University Cross Country Championships, 2nd at Buffalo 20km and 1st at the recent UTA 22!
The group then discuss a recent instagram post from Ruth Croft, diving into the topic of junior/youth participation in ultras, before Brodie and James review the Erniold Melbourne Trail Tee. We finish by covering results from across Australia and the Oceania athletes in action at the Maxi Race in France.
Results:
Charlie Hamilton racing Maxxi Race in France
Rapid Ascent Trail Series Rd 1: Blackwood (VIC)
Myponga Loop (SA)
Jolly Jumbuck Trail Run (WA)
Off The Beaten Track Series Rd 3: Eungella - Rainforest Run (QLD)
In The Raw Trail Run (QLD)
Dead Cow Gully BYU (QLD)
Introducing the 'MELBOURNE Trail Tee'
Key features; Anti-piling technical fabric, an oversize-cropped fit, made in Melbourne.
As a Melbourne-born brand, producing this garment locally is core to who they are. Supporting local makers and keeping production close to home is part of what makes this range so meaningful. Developed for all runners, the Melbourne range combines premium technical fabrics with functional detailing to elevate the running experience. Explore more at http://erniold.com/
Join us on Patreon HERE
***Don’t forget, use code PEAK at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Follow James: Instagram | Strava | Website
Follow Brodie: Instagram | Strava | Website
Follow Bridget Lunn: Instagram | Strava
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Elevate your running experience with Ernie Old. Ernie Old Running offers performance apparel without the noise, where paired back design meets athlete-grade functionality. The brand was founded locally in Melbourne by two lifelong friends. Ernie Old was born from the city's running community and delivers gear built for movement, carefully constructed and never mass-produced. In this episode, we review a new addition to the Melbourne range, the Melbourne Trail T, a technical unisex t-shirt sublimated and hand-sewn in Melbourne, Australia. Designed for everyday training and racing, this tee is ideal for those extra stressful events. Explore more at erneald.com and at ernealdrunning on Instagram.
00:00:43
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 112 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Brody and I'm one of your regular hosts and this week I'm joined by James. James, how are you going?
00:00:55
Speaker
Doing well, thank you. Excited to be here as always. Yeah, it's going to be a fun week and we're lucky enough to be joined by Bridget Lunn. Bridget is fresh off the back of a win at the UTA 22, so we're very lucky to grab her on and we're going to hear a bit about that and a few other things. But um firstly, Bridget, how are you going?
00:01:14
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going great. Thanks. Happy to be here. Awesome. Yeah, we're excited to talk to you. It's been um been a big year, I guess, for you um so far and lots of interesting transitions between various things. And yeah, you've already ticked off a lot of what looks like big goals. So um yeah, I'm excited to hear a little bit more about that. I guess, um where can we start? have we Have we had you on before, Bridget, or done a little mini interview with you? I can't remember.
00:01:42
Speaker
um I think I was on briefly for the Golden Trail series last year. i was like, I've definitely heard from Bridget somewhere. I should know our own podcast, but I've forgotten. So if anyone wants to hear a little bit more about Bridget and and um ah her background to running, um head over head back to
Bridget's International Racing Experience
00:02:00
Speaker
those. ah chasing the ticket episodes um and we'll touch on a few of those things but mainly I want to chat about um what's been happening this year um Bridget I guess the first thing I saw this year and you can tell me about what led into it was the World University cross-country champs um can you tell us a little bit about how that eventuated what what made you want to go down that track and and how it went Yeah, I mean, I'd never had got the chance to represent Australia before and it was definitely a big goal of mine um in the last maybe two years um of my running. I'd say I'm only four or five years into my running journey in total. And yeah, when I started that thought would never have even crossed my mind. But
00:02:44
Speaker
Yeah, I suppose two years ago when I saw the previous iteration of the World University Cross Country Champs, I thought, oh, maybe one day I'll be able to do something as cool as that. And I guess I kind of worked away and got to the point where could put together a obviously decent application, I suppose.
00:03:03
Speaker
um And yeah, so I got to go and compete over in Europe. um It was held in Italy. was my first time ever going to Europe as well. I'm not particularly well traveled or anything like that. So that was really cool.
00:03:16
Speaker
um And yeah, I mean, it's just such a cool experience to be able to um represent your country like that. um so I ran the 10K cross country, which was it was a really hilly course, which played to my strengths pretty well.
00:03:32
Speaker
um And yeah, it's just so much fun. I had a really great race that day. um i managed to finish first out of the Aussies, um smack bang in the middle of the pack as well, overall.
00:03:44
Speaker
Um, and yeah, the next day somehow I was able to back it up and run another 5k on the same course in the team relay. Um, and I think we came seventh. Um, yeah, I don't know. It's just so cool. And I don't think I'll be able to do something like that again.
00:04:01
Speaker
It sounds, sounds really cool. Did you, did you have to do some sort of trials race or like, how did you, how did you get into the team? um There wasn't a trial, but I'd run in the Australian cross-country champs that year. um And I think that would have been my strongest result on my application.
00:04:21
Speaker
um Otherwise, I just put in you know a handful of pretty mid-track results and things like that. um I think I might have even put a trial result on there. Yeah. Nice. Good to hear.
00:04:36
Speaker
Fantastic. And in terms of the the race, i remember we I remember we mentioned at the time that it had a pretty good result and maybe that was partially because the course was it like a bit hillier or I think Simone was talking
Transition from Trail to Cross Country
00:04:50
Speaker
about it. um was Do you feel like the like the experience in trail running over the past couple of years has...
00:04:57
Speaker
had sort of like contributed to um you on that course or like how did you compare to the to the people that you would normally be around or even behind? Like did it did it help do you think? um Yeah, I think if anything it just gave me the confidence to know that I could get around those hills pretty well. um We had to do i think seven laps of the course and each of them had these two really steep hills. um Yeah, I think just the confidence overall, like in my weekly training, i actually train on cross-country track here in Canberra um and otherwise I'm running on the track. So yeah, I think I was pretty well prepared for cross-country race. Yeah, nice.
00:05:42
Speaker
When bridge Bridget, when you're looking back at your training, it's like you you haven't been in the sport still for that long. We still a lot of stuff that you can work on knowing that the cross country, like well, it was there. What was the focus that you had to switch from going from the trail season last year, kind of finishing off. i Um, I think was, was Hounslow your last trail race last year, like kind of last key one.
00:06:04
Speaker
um yeah. So how am I what changed from then to build into worlds? Um, Yeah, just going through looking, it was Hounslow. That was my last trail race I did last year. So that was September. And then I think I had um ah had my application for the World Union Cross Country is sort of at the front of my mind.
00:06:26
Speaker
um And so I'd done id done a 10k road race and a 5k track race um to try and get good times to put on my application. But I remember they both just went absolutely terribly and I didn't end up putting either of them on. Um, so they were my goals, but, um, I remember I was, cause I was on the single track trail team last year and I was supposed to be going to the, um, the Grampians, um, the Grampians race and I was doing the stage there.
00:06:54
Speaker
and, But I think they announced the nomination window for World Uni Cross Country only like a couple of weeks before it closed. And so I was sort of freaking out. That's why I did all these races last minute and put Grampians on hold. um I think I did. There was the cross country selection trials for the world cross country. So like the actual one rather than the university one.
00:07:19
Speaker
um And I remembered I did do that. to put it on my um application, I suppose. um Yeah. And then after that, I guess the window closed and actually had a really good summer building up my training. And I think i built a lot of fitness. um Yeah. After I'd already submit my application. um not it Yeah. It all works out in the end, doesn't it?
00:07:44
Speaker
definitely and how much of a leading did they give you in terms of like how how far ahead of when you had to go over there did you get told you're on the team um that's a great question i think we got told in actually can't remember it was either january or february i think okay so and then the race was in march it was pretty quick turnaround Yeah, so you kind of have to be committed to that's what you're targeting. And if you get on, great. And if not, you've got a bit of speed to go back to the trails with.
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah,
Pre-Buffalo Race Challenges
00:08:16
Speaker
exactly. And coming back off well junior so World Junior, World Junior, World Junior E-Cross, one of the things we spoke about in the lead up to Buffalo was you were, I think you you only landed back in Australia the week orb or the week before maybe it was a pretty tight turnaround. you obviously had a big back to back race as well for the 10k into the 5k.
00:08:35
Speaker
How did you feel going into Buffalo? Were you confident in the fitness that you were carrying in? um I don't know. i didn't really have many expectations for Buffalo. um There was sort of another layer of complexity to that. So after the cross-country race, we were sort of traveling for maybe half a week and then we landed back in Australia on the Saturday. And then the very next day i had to pack up all my stuff and move to Jindaby for my GP placement.
00:09:02
Speaker
Oh wow. um So I had, it was quite chaotic. um Yeah, moving down to Jindabyne by myself and then I had to drive from Jindabyne to Bright um the next week and it had actually snowed um that weekend as well.
00:09:18
Speaker
And to get from Jindabyne to Bright, you have to go through Thredbo, that's a the fastest way. And I was just driving through snow and I was by myself and it was very stressful i was going very slow on those roads um yeah so i tried not to have too many expectations I think I managed to do maybe one or two sessions in that like 13 days in between cross-country and Buffalo um but yeah I don't know I went into Buffalo feeling quite normal actually which was somewhat surprising
00:09:51
Speaker
And did you feel different coming back onto the trails now you'd had this summer of kind of track and cross country training? Um, not really. i mean, I felt slow because you're hiking up Hills rather than sprinting, but you couldn't feel like that. That's like like, I guess that having that reason to focus a bit differently on from a fitness perspective, like you are out of the Hills a bit. You are like, I think you set your fight. You you set your 5k PB in the last sort of six months or in in that previous six months, that correct.
00:10:20
Speaker
Yeah, I did it ah three weeks before cross country, i think. Yeah. So like you click clearly at a, from a speed perspective, the fastest you had been, but you do that at the cost of the specific training for the trails. So like, yeah, it was there, apart from the house, low, the hills were going, was there any area that you felt like, okay, I'm noticeably stronger here now? um I mean, I think I tried to take the lead from the start and I took the first K out at like 340 and felt completely fine.
00:10:47
Speaker
So there's that, I suppose. Yeah. On the flats, I definitely feel way faster. I feel about the same on the hills, I suppose. It's a good place to be. 340, quite comfortable. Yeah, like I don't do any um really hill specific training anyway, even when I am sort of doing a trail season. um Is that because you will preference training with the group versus going to the hills? Yeah, I just think that your speed going uphill, like, yes, there's a strength component, but I think most of it comes down to just your general fitness.
00:11:22
Speaker
um And I don't know, I still do So on a Saturday when I train on the cross-country track, like there's a there's a little bit of an incline on the K reps that we do. yeah And some ah we've been doing some four by 30 second hills at the end of a session.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, I don't know. I think it seems to work as a strategy and I guess um doing something different to other people and maybe people can make their own judgment on kind of what works best.
Performance Insights and Training Routine
00:11:53
Speaker
when clearly with the results, like you were second at Buffalo to Joe Hepton and Joe's kind of, I don't know, really making a a name for herself on the trail side in the last couple of, last year or so. um But maybe with it with her as the exception, when you've been on the courses at Buffalo and UTA, are you noticing yourself being stronger or weaker than the other ladies in the field on the climbs at all?
00:12:18
Speaker
Um, yeah, to be honest, I'd say so. Like I always considered myself as somewhat of a weak climber. Um, and I guess, yeah, going into UTA, which i don't know, maybe we'll talk about at some point. Um, my strategy was to kind of my strategy was to kind of, um, sprint the downhill to get as much of a lead as I could. And then just try and hold everyone else off on the uphill. Cause I thought that would be my weakness, but yeah,
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think maybe it hasn't turned out to be that way. So yeah, I'd say maybe maybe I'm feeling stronger on the climbs in general. Very good place to be. It's very interesting. like um I think always like, well, obviously we're trying to commentate a little bit on the sport and in terms of, I guess this year we've done the Buffalo preview and the UTA preview and I've always, like my perception has been that like if you were going to um be at risk of something coming undone, Bridget, it would have been the downhills in those races, especially like Buffalo where you've got to go down and then climb back up and then go down again. did you Do you feel like downhills is just like...
00:13:26
Speaker
come at a natural strength for you or do you actually find in these races they do they they are a bit harder because from the outside it looks like you're handling them really well and surprisingly so so maybe I'm sort of like unwriting my perceptions I guess or like my biases because obviously yeah it looks like on paper you're doing pretty well like what's your perception of that um I think from a like technical point, obviously when you're going downhill, you have to make really quick decisions about where to put your feet and things like that. And I think generally I do okay at that.
00:14:00
Speaker
um However, yeah UCA being essentially like a road downhill, like not technical at all, but very, very steep. um i Yeah, I definitely had issues there, not going to lie.
00:14:14
Speaker
And was it in the moment or was it later in the course that you started to suffer because of it? Do you think? ah No, i suffered straight away. um I had i had a shoe malfunction. um i had worn these shoes before for just jogging, but I hadn't raced in them before and I definitely never like really sensed a downhill before.
00:14:38
Speaker
um And I think the heel lock just wasn't good enough. And so every step I'd take, my foot would shift slightly forwards. um And obviously you're landing quite heavily on your heels on a really steep downhill.
00:14:49
Speaker
And yeah, three kilometers into UTA, I just had these massive blisters on my heels and they were just burning. um and yeah it hurt a lot so I tried to like point my toes a bit more to land like less on my heels and more on my midfoot and yeah obviously my legs were not conditioned to be doing that and so after a couple minutes of that both of my calves just started cramping and it was horrible that was the worst like The last 5Ks of that descent were just horrible.
00:15:20
Speaker
um I thought I was going to be stuck in that valley forever because normally when I climb it's my calves that get really sore. um And I thought I just was not going to make it out. But yeah, it ended up, I think it was specifically my soleus muscles that were killing on the downhills um rather than my gastrocs. So I guess maybe that little differentiation saved me somewhat. Yeah.
00:15:45
Speaker
But yeah, the climbs ended up being okay. But it was really strange running the rest of UTA and just hoping that around the next corner there'd be a climb rather than a descent.
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah, I can't say I've had that feeling very much. i did see that reading that in your Instagram and thought, yeah, that's quite a unique perspective. I don't think many people get that feeling very often. if it does It really points to how susceptible, like I see i see it in the were coaching when people sort of try to slightly change how their foot hits the ground, whether they've been told by a podiatrist or they just want to test it out and how quickly that can fire up muscles that are just being acted like you used in ways they're not used to it. um Because, yeah, cramping,
00:16:29
Speaker
5k into a downhill through your calves or specifically layer so the bottom part it's not maybe a normal experience and also i yeah would not fill you with a lot of confidence whatsoever kind of i can imagine you get into the bottom and be like cool this is either gonna like i'm walking or i'm okay let's see what happens literally yeah Yeah, it's it's really interesting how changing like just something so slightly can do it. I remember like doing a climb with someone once and i I can't remember who it was but like it was a bit slippy and it was quite steep and it was just like the slippiness that was making them contract their calf like different. They're like cramped within like three, four minutes. yeah But I wasn't having the same issue. it was like It was like I was a little bit more used to that sort of contraction or something. So, its yeah, it's really interesting how just like tiny changes can can overload certain muscles.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah. You're just better, Brody. It's right. You can say it. Well, they're much better than climbing at me usually, so I just hope that it's always slippy. I do see it, especially like when people are on an unstable surface and they start trying to grip with their toes um for stability, like that small action can just cause so much pain and an issue for your planter and then up into the calves as well. yeah Your body's ah the body's an incredible thing. It works as one big piece. It's not isolated muscles that we're that we're just firing one at a time, so it's can be pretty susceptible to it coming into, we kind of gone on to It's my whole stay there, Bridget coming into UTA, you've been post Buffalo. It's what six weeks or so, six, seven weeks to UTA cross country's done. This kind of the the focus. What was the approach to bridge yourself from Buffalo to UTA? Um, yeah, well, I was back in Jindabyne for the next four weeks, um, for my placement.
00:18:10
Speaker
Um, and there's, there's a track at Jindabyne, which I'd kind of sneak onto early in the morning before anyone else was there. Um, but the track is like, i'd I'd say it's quite a slow track. Like it's kind of this carpet with sand in it.
00:18:25
Speaker
Um, anyway, it doesn't make you feel very fast when you run on it in essence. Um, and yeah, I just tried to build, back up to 100k weeks in the rest of that time um and then you know feeling pretty average doing park runs on Saturday um but as soon as I came back to Canberra I don't like something just clicked and I suddenly felt like really fit and I was hitting you know pbs in my sessions and yeah just feeling really good so yeah in general my lead up to UTA was yeah pretty well perfect I'd say
00:18:59
Speaker
It's the altitude camp. It's worked for you. Yeah. so What is the altitude of Jindabyne? Jindabyne's at 900 metres and Canberra's at like 500 or 600, depending on where you are. So it's not very... Clutching at straws, but but we can click yeah claim it. could Could you notice the difference running? Obviously the track had a high resistance. You're going to notice that. And it's probably there a surface that's going to give you a bit less response from it. But could you feel in sort of faster sessions that extra 400 meters of altitude?
00:19:33
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know if I'm just saying that, but you definitely feel slow. And yeah, especially doing, because I do in my long runs, the um Charlotte's Pass to Cozzy Loop. And yeah, I think you can feel it. Oh, yeah. Well, you're getting up, but it is You're you' up to the top there, aren't you? So like you're up to 2,000 meters.
00:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, I would say you're definitely going to feel that. And then going the last couple of weeks, so so you've gone through Canberra, like your, sorry, step back, your typical training, say back to 100k weeks.
00:20:04
Speaker
do Do you work with a coach at all? um i kind of i train with a group but i'd say i'm mainly self-coached yeah um as in like i'll rock up and do whatever session they're doing with them but everything else i kind of decide myself yeah so what do you try to make a kind of typical week in that block obviously outside of the gender buying aspect but like what you try to to make that look like Yeah. um So Monday is like an easy run, normally like 6 to eight k
00:20:37
Speaker
um Tuesday, i had been doing like a 6K easy run in the morning, but now it's winter and dark and I don't want to do that. um And then Tuesday afternoon track session, um which is normally like 400s, but hopefully we'll be moving up to 1600 soon because it's cross-country season. Yeah. Do they try to structure the sessions around particular races that are coming up or times of this the season?
00:21:04
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, all the sessions are ah tailored for 1500 meter runners essentially. Okay. But I don't know. It works. I try not to do, sometimes I'll do like 300s and 200s and I won't do that. But if it's 400 meters or longer, I'll do it.
00:21:19
Speaker
um And it's fun as well. Would recommend. You feel really fast. Yeah. And then Wednesday is like 16k on the trails.
00:21:31
Speaker
Thursday is a threshold session. um And I sort of worked my way up to 12 kilometers of threshold um broken up into 6k and then 3x2k, which is feeling good. Friday is a rest day.
00:21:48
Speaker
um saturdays normally k reps on the grass um and then sunday long run about 25ks and that's yeah taking me to 100ks for the week and it's made me feel really fit yeah it's a pretty dense week of work like there's not well there's monday that's quite relaxed but it's and you' you're you're doing a pretty decent amount of training each each day do you feel that fatigue build up by the time you get to that sunday long run um I mean, I think because I've built up to it over quite a while. um Yeah, I think you you kind of just get used to it, to be honest. And as long as you know, like how hard you can push yourself in each session, i think, yeah, it's you can manage it.
00:22:34
Speaker
do Do you feel like you're good at controlling your intensity when you're doing stuff like the threshold sessions or are you trying to prove yourself to the Strava gods?
00:22:44
Speaker
No, I think I'm pretty good. I've kind of tried to maintain the same threshold paces for the last like two years. So I don't actually know whether I'm running at a threshold or not, but Yeah, it's obviously quite a long run, like that day's 20Ks and then two days later to turn around and do K reps at Stromlo. Yeah, I think it's manageable.
00:23:07
Speaker
Well, and yeah, no but the the reason for for my question being that I think that one can back up quite comfortably off genuine threshold or sub threshold style work. But so so many of us often overreach that little bit and that would then suddenly make Friday, the recovery is like a bit harder. Saturday, it feels a bit harder again. Then you compound that into the Sunday. Whereas youve got if you've got that control, it it does work. because yeah because that's what 40 minutes worth of threshold plus on a Thursday for you.
00:23:34
Speaker
Yeah. And I think something that I've had to do is I always do my threshold sessions by myself. Like, I don't think I'd ever really do a threshold run with a group because, yeah, you really do have to control yourself. And if someone's going out too fast, like you don't know if they're running at threshold or not, like they might be super threshold as well. There's no point chasing them.
00:23:53
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. I'd often do threshold on a treadmill as well. um just so I can control my pace, um yeah, like really specifically. so yeah, these are things that, yeah, I can sort of help you control yourself.
00:24:06
Speaker
I think that's really smart. Like it's it's fun to do thresholds with people because when you, in my experience, when you do them right, they get kind of boring because you're at quite a controlled intensity. But some of the threshold sessions that I've definitely overcooked myself have been with other people that have been just that touch fitter than you or you both just get in a race, which is probably a bit more of a me thing than anything else. But yeah, I think that makes lot sense. Do you ever do your thresholds on an incline if you're using the treadmill or do you do you keep it all flat?
00:24:32
Speaker
No, I just keep them flat. Yeah, I don't know. Brody, got any questions on Bridget's training? ah Not
Sustainable Training Approaches
00:24:40
Speaker
really. Like I just i find it like like I guess Bridget was saying before, like there's many ways to do training um and many ways to get the same outcome um and different things are going to work better for different people. And obviously, Bridget's training probably doesn't look exactly – like your very traditional trail running training. It's probably more of a, say, road cross-country focus, but it works and she's still having great results. And and you can see the similarities there, the things that ah the training sessions that work on similar things. So, yeah, I think it's its it's nice to highlight that there's
00:25:19
Speaker
different ways to do it and um if you do it the way that you can do it consistently for many weeks on end that's going to be the best so less of a question more of ah my summary sorry but yeah no it's just kind of really interesting It is, yeah, it it is interesting that he said, Bridget, I think it it really points to the fact that as you're developing as a runner, as you said, you're still, still I would say like four or five years is pretty new to the sport that you're not needing to like, there's plenty of time to do that volume.
00:25:51
Speaker
that intensity, that distribution, it probably works for the age you are, where you are, the environment that you're in. And if you've got that understanding of how your body is responding, like people listening to this, i not not talking about yourself now, but like it can work really well, but you have to be really good at understanding your body because a lot of people that try to do three sessions a week plus a long run,
00:26:09
Speaker
would end up really putting themselves and in ah in a hole. um And then all the other stuff that goes around it, like making sure you're sleeping and eating and hydrating and balancing the the work and life stress, et cetera. But it does point out that like there's not just this one way of doing it for every person. It is once you can find that way that works for you at that point for that cycle, it's great. i had um one question about the training on that on that note.
00:26:31
Speaker
um In terms of the UTA where you were saying the downhill was was tricky, it sounded like maybe it was mostly like the blister situation. Do you think there was anything you could have done to prepare better for the downhill? i think like shoe choice is a bit difficult unless you like obviously practice in it. But like, do you feel like it was mostly the shoe or do you feel like you could have done some specific training to also manage that downhill? Yeah, I'm not really sure. i mean, yeah, maybe some specific downhill training would have helped. um
00:27:04
Speaker
I do think mainly my issue was the shoe because that's the reason why I had to change my gait in the first place. Yeah. Yeah, I think, yeah, I hadn't done any part of the UTA course before as well. So I didn't really know what to expect. um So I guess going forward, something I would change would be, um yeah, to do like a specific practice in the shoes I'm planning on wearing, um even if I can't.
00:27:34
Speaker
get out to the course to do a recce or something, which often I can't because, you know, I can't take leave from uni and things like that. Um, but just trying to find a section of trail around here that's somewhat similar to the course. And I guess in Canberra, there's a lot of choice for that.
00:27:52
Speaker
Um, and yeah, and just maybe trying to do like, uh, some kind of effort in the race day shoes and just, you know, have a practice run. That's something I'll try and do in the future, I think.
00:28:04
Speaker
What made you decide to go for those shoes for UTA? Well, okay, normally normally I run in the Fuji Speed twos which are ASICs.
00:28:16
Speaker
um And I bought those three years ago or maybe two years ago um because they were the only carbon-plated trail shoe I could find at the time. um And I actually had to order them from overseas as well because there weren't any in Australia. yeah And that's what I had been doing on my trail races um But they're quite firm underfoot. And I thought that in the really steep downhill, and I wanted to like go as hard as I could, I thought they'd be too hard and they'd like hurt my heels, like smacking the hard ground.
00:28:52
Speaker
um And so opted for the Fuji Speed 4, which actually got um given by a friend because I thought they'd be like a softer underfoot.
00:29:04
Speaker
um So that's the reason I chose them. um yeah since I've actually ordered some different trail shoes to try out today so cool I'll have some more insights in the trail shoes in the future I think it just points out to how much yeah like model to model or year to year like two to three to four shoes can change unfortunately and you can't can't take it for granted that going from a speed two to speed four is going to have the same fit and interaction with with your foot. it
00:29:35
Speaker
It makes me think about last year, as you said, you were on the um single track trail team. I don't think we've really had anybody on that's been on there except for James, but where you didn't speak about too much. What was the experience like being on the trail team and what was the decision not to reapply for it this year? um Yeah, I mean, it's a really great opportunity and I really love what Singletrack's doing at the moment, um especially trying to like foster their younger athletes and people who are both um like at all ends of the spectrum in terms of their journey in trail running. um Yeah, I think it's really good. I i thought that'd be, I guess, more of a like team aspect. So Buffalo last year was the first um race that we did together. That's when we met everyone. um And it was really exciting and, yeah, awesome to meet everyone and the team.
00:30:24
Speaker
um And then race, they give you all the gear to run in as well, which is really cool. Like, I don't know, it makes you feel important, which is nice. um And then...
00:30:36
Speaker
I kind of like didn't really hear anything um until Hounslow came around. and I think because most of Singletracks races are based around Melbourne um and you know even on the website, they'll say, oh, it's only a two-hour drive from Melbourne or whatever. and I'm like, well, it's like a 10-hour drive from Canberra.
00:30:56
Speaker
um So I think a lot of a lot of people on the trail team were maybe more from that area. And so they didn't want to come to Hounslow to race.
00:31:06
Speaker
um And yeah, like racing in Hounslow, it was like I definitely got to catch up with a handful of the trail team, but most them weren't really there. then...
00:31:17
Speaker
and then Yeah, i had to pull out of Grampians as well, which was going to be my third race for them to focus on uni, the Unicross.
00:31:28
Speaker
um Yeah, I think it's – I found it to be like quite a lot of work making all the social media posts um for them. And I guess for a couple pairs of shoes and a few clothes and entry to a couple races, I guess I just didn't really – um say that it was worth it and I think um right now when I'm trying to like race the best I can and maybe I can get support in other ways, um I think as well it was worth sort of giving that opportunity to someone who maybe isn't at the same point in their running journey um and maybe it would be more useful for them to sort of push them along and sort of get them in the community.
00:32:11
Speaker
um Yeah, don't know if that kind of makes sense. It does. And it's it's ah it's a thought i ive I've had about the trail team and like it's awesome to see them trying it. And it's the only the the second year of doing it. But I do feel like the the expectations versus what we see from like, as you say, people coming together, the interactions, the development for the for the runner. Out from the outside, I wasn't sure like how much value you, as in you, Bridget, or you, the other runners would get from it. So like what what benefit do you feel like you did get from the single track tower team um yeah well i guess as we mentioned before like i haven't been in the sport for very long um and that yeah definitely sort of allowed me to immerse myself in the community and meet so many great people and other runners and everyone at single track who organizes the events um yeah that was really cool
Community Engagement and Personal Goals
00:33:06
Speaker
Sweet. nice I'm going to be interviewing Nigel Preston, who's the RD for Single Track this this week. So I'm trying to get some ideas in my head for conversations. Because I think it is interesting because i said I love what they're trying to do, but I personally feel like they're not quite where they probably want to be, or I'm not quite sure what the point of it is for the athlete, aside from potentially getting some like social media awareness. So do you feel like it's helped you potentially start conversations with other brands if that's something that you're trying to do or you're interested in or has it given you an insight into that side of the sport? um Yeah, I mean, I've been trying to know great success so far to be in contact with other brands for support.
00:33:46
Speaker
um Yeah, I think in general, like the trail team's really good um for like the runners who want to be part of the community.
00:33:56
Speaker
um But I guess jumping back a bit, it's more... Like I feel like it's not quite targeted for where I am at. Yeah. Where I'm sort of at the stage where I'm, you know, maybe looking for like actual sponsorship maybe one day.
00:34:11
Speaker
um And like my goal for each race is to try and win or at least do my did my best to get on that podium, which I think is not quite what the single track trail team is about.
00:34:23
Speaker
um It is more about that community. um Yeah, like overall, it's really great to be a part of, especially at that stage in my running career, I guess. Like, yeah, but if you take me back to that year, i'd definitely sign up again.
00:34:38
Speaker
um But I guess I've kind of moved on a little bit. Yeah, graduated. Graduated. I think is their their whole their whole premise is that yeah it's it's a year of exposure and then you can either reapply or you or you can move move forward. um So trying to pursue a sponsor is something that you are actively doing this year.
00:34:58
Speaker
Um, attempting.
00:35:01
Speaker
I asked James Barnett the same question. And when you start to look at lining up the sponsor, because as you as you see said, with the trail team, it comes with obligation that whether it's social media, whether it's certain events, whether it's just the pressure of something else on, on your own performance, what, why do you want at this stage of your life to try and pursue a sponsor?
00:35:23
Speaker
um I guess because like at the moment being a student, I find it really hard to um like afford all the running gear and it's hard to um like get to races where you have to pay the entry fee, you have to pay accommodation, travel.
00:35:40
Speaker
it just really adds up. And I think, yeah, having some support for that would be really helpful. Yeah. um i should add though i do have a sponsor and that is bix who i believe is and part of this podcast slightly um they are really helpful yeah yeah for sure what we said before i would take personally take nutrition sponsor over a shoe sponsor because i'm probably going to buy the shoes that i need but i'm essentially not always going to buy the nutrition that i need to feel my runs properly so yeah absolutely really valuable one and
00:36:15
Speaker
Obviously, we and are incredibly biased when I say this, but Vlad is an incredibly good good guy who wants the sport and the people in the sport to go like to succeed. So it's cool that you're... a I think it's like like you said, it's pretty biased for us to say. Although I haven't said that much about our bix like what I feel about Bix, but I just i think...
00:36:36
Speaker
Like the amount of athletes in Australia that they support, that they get behind, even if it's only in a small... I don't even know the way that they get behind them because i'm not I'm not in that space. I don't know the ins and outs of it. But i just they've got such a visible presence in Australian trail running compared to any other...
00:36:54
Speaker
brand really full stop yeah definitely any other nutrition brand but like the amount of people carrying bix around is and and and yeah hearing vlad's interview and and and what he's doing i'm assuming he like ah obviously it's a business decision but there is a there's definitely an an altruistic component to it so it's it's cool to see that and i guess that's maybe an interesting thing in the running brand space is maybe we have less of those local Australian owned brands that don't, they don't really exist. The only one that really jumps to mind is Tarkine.
00:37:29
Speaker
Um, and they probably do punch above their weight in terms of the athletes they sponsor. Um, but yeah, it's an interesting, interesting one, but shout out to Bix. Yeah.
00:37:40
Speaker
And I think it it is a case of for a lot of these brands, being able to measure the return on their investment on people is pretty hard, especially when we don't have live streams. So the spectator element is pretty low. So like the people seeing you wearing the stuff is only the people that are at the events that are probably already exposed to them because of the expo. So you do have to take somebody who is, and not just Bix, but if there's other brands out there that are probably very Australian focused, like from a socks perspective, all I wear is Relly, which is an Australian brand. And they're like,
00:38:08
Speaker
They're kind of doing the same thing on a smaller scale, but it's, they love the sport and they want to see the Australian runner succeed. And that's just separate from the investment. Like they they still want, obviously it pays to have Bridget wearing Vlad's, like Bix's hat.
00:38:22
Speaker
And then then being on a podium, obviously that's good. That's great marketing. But ah I believe... there is a large port and they just want to see Australian trail runners have an opportunity to to succeed, which is pretty cool.
00:38:33
Speaker
It's why I like before the podcast and not using Bix myself, but I always had a lot of admiration for that as a brand because of what they're trying to do. And it would be awesome to see more. It probably is going to come more from the independent, the smaller scale businesses in Australia, but, but doing that. And if you listen to this and you are, and you're like, Oh, shout me out, reach out. Cause we'd love to hear.
00:38:52
Speaker
Yeah, nice. um A little bit on that train and then and then we can – I've got one last question for you, Bridget, and then we can
Upcoming Races and Recovery Strategies
00:39:00
Speaker
move on. But um in terms of this year, what's what's on the cards for later in the year? um Are you going to – like I guess the other thing with your running ah more focused – not focused around ah road running but more that that training allows you – gives you opportunities to do a ah wide variety of stuff, which is pretty cool and I think is great. at your age as well um what's on the cards for the rest of the year yeah so there's not many um kind of big trail races that i could really find in australia over winter um so in the next trial run i'm going to do at the moment is hounslow um just the 17 again i did it last year it's not just
00:39:41
Speaker
Yeah, we'll to this, but it's not not just. It's a big, yep. Yeah, so over winter, I'll do um cross country. I'll just do the New South Wales champs and then I'll do the Australian champs and then, I don't know, maybe I'll do a 10K road race, but that's more just to...
00:40:02
Speaker
to get me interested, I suppose, over winter, just give me something in the short term to aim for while I'm training. um And then, yeah, Hounslow. And ideally, like I'd like to do Roller Coaster, which is in October, i think. Yeah. um However, it is...
00:40:22
Speaker
I think to two weeks before my final exams for the year. um And we don't get a study break before our exams. We're expected to go to placement and then sit our final exams for the year.
00:40:33
Speaker
um So i may not be able to make that one. It's also in Melbourne, so a big drive from Canberra. Yeah. um But otherwise, I'd really like to do COSY32 this year.
00:40:47
Speaker
I think that'll be a major goal as well. um Yeah. That's all the races I've lined up. I was going to ask if that's been, would that be longest race? And then I got reminded that you did start COSY100K in 2023. Yeah.
00:41:00
Speaker
in twenty twenty three Yes. Well, actually, six weeks before 100K, of which I DNF'd, I ran 100K for Inward Bound, which is an ANU event where you get blindfolded, dropped in the bush, and then you have to run your way home using nothing but a map and a compass.
00:41:20
Speaker
And that was the exact same distance and elevation as the COSI 100. So I have done before. And I didn't even have ah directions. Yeah, yeah. made for trails then not gonna get lost all right we'll we'll touch on that in a bit but we'll we'll come to that as part of one of our new topics that we're gonna we're gonna chat about but um anything else on UTA Bridget that you feel like is a reflection point and now you're looking back a couple weeks post and anything you're particularly proud of or takeaways for developing yourself going forward
00:41:52
Speaker
um well I mean, I definitely had some development points that we've discussed earlier. um Yeah, I mean, it's ah it's taken me two weeks to recover from it. um i did this Saturday would have been 15 days and that was the first time I could run without any pain in my legs. um Yeah, no, I'm really happy with how it went and how I, um for some reason, pushed through the pain. Yeah.
00:42:20
Speaker
yeah Nice. Excited. I'm really excited to get back into training. I don't know. Good. I think i so that's that the the biggest thing of after you do these big races, you've had pretty big busy season. Now you've given yourself that window to actually still be hungry for more rather than just jump straight back in and get the training back to a hundred K and not let the body recover, not let the mind be ready. So that's good to hear. That makes us excited for, uh, watching you at Hounslow and then roller coaster slash Cosi coming up.
00:42:48
Speaker
That's one. Yeah, good. Thanks so much for that, Bridget. We've managed to talk for 45 minutes. I was looking at it, I was like, oh, I've got a few more questions. We'll finish it in half an hour. But that's all right. This is the best part of the episode. So hope everyone enjoyed that. All right, going to move on to some more exciting stuff. James, how are you going?
00:43:12
Speaker
yeah no Just not as exciting. Sorry, James. That's fine. That's fine. um I'm good. i am I feel like, so the recovery of the back of doing UTA was was good, except for my calves.
00:43:30
Speaker
Speaking of calves, but my mine were caused by the stairs, not so much from the ah the up or or the down. of of the more runnable stuff but yeah so they they were pretty sore for a bit i think anyone that's on our patreon vlad sim and i jumped on friday after uta i think maybe the yeah it must have been uh friday afternoon and i was telling everybody how i managed to fall down the stairs outside the front of our house on friday morning as i tried to start my uh my long run and that was really annoying So I didn't do anything bad. um ah was speaking to to Luke and he said that it's most likely like just irritated the fat pad. it So it was causing a lot a lot of pressure and inflammation fluid in my knee. So I couldn't really, couldn't bend it, couldn't lock it out, definitely couldn't run.
00:44:15
Speaker
So I had essentially Friday, Saturday, Sunday. i ran Sunday. That didn't go very well. It felt fine on the run, but it didn't respond well afterwards. So then try to run Monday morning. That didn't go very well.
00:44:26
Speaker
And then Tuesday, i was able to 20 minutes in the morning that felt quite good. And then after that, it felt even better. And so I had a chat to Luke and we sort of agreed that we would try splitting it up into doubles, just short doubles rather than trying to get the 60 minutes high plan that morning.
00:44:43
Speaker
And that went really well. So I did 20 minutes in the morning, 30 minutes in the evening. The next day i ran with SJ and I think I did 50 minutes in the morning and then 45 in the evening.
00:44:53
Speaker
And then by Friday, Thursday was rest day by Friday. I went on the trails for about 75 minutes and still could still feel it, but no pain. So it meant I could go up to Tumit to meet, catch up with Ian Best for a run on Saturday morning. So that was fun. It's also pretty humbling as we were going uphill. He had some weight in his pack. We were chatting. I looked down at my heart rate and I'm above threshold and like, well, I need to stop running right now. And he was just absolutely fine. So it's always nice and humbling. It's where I've really felt the lack of fitness from last year. It's just the longer climbs.
00:45:31
Speaker
So, but that was cool. It was cool to be, just to run in Tumut. I've never gone up there. It was very pretty. um But yeah, so we're we're now good. I've sort of entered this week starts in what in my head is like a next phase of the the the journey back where I'm sort of still have to have a bit of that rehab mindset there. So we can't obviously make jumps too quickly and that's be quite purposeful with how we add things in, but it I can now start to think a little bit more about performance. Sort of, we've ticked a lot of the boxes to get to here. We've brought intensity back in. We brought the hills back in. we we did Well, it's actually technically last week I did sit up doing six days. So gone gone back to six days of running.
00:46:15
Speaker
i Ironically brought back in doubles, which I didn't intend to. And I won't do this week, but I actually really quite enjoyed. It made me really excited to finish the day um and actually probably work a bit more productively because I had to get out to do something in the evening.
00:46:29
Speaker
So yeah, it's, I feel like we're kind of entering a bit where I'm not thinking about my leg as much and I feel quite excited about training. um And now it's just a matter of, yeah, getting used to actually like training properly again, which is exciting and a little bit daunting.
00:46:47
Speaker
Nice. Sounds like a big journey. So yeah, UTA for you was like end of the end of the rehab block, I guess, or like you sort of, that was like you needed to build the capacity to be able to do UTA and and now you tick that off, you can sort of go, okay, now on to just normal programming?
00:47:07
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much. I think with UTA... Obviously within the scope of where you're at, but like oh now you like, I can get better. I think where I am now, probably the best way to describe it is we're approaching it as if I'm somebody that has held higher volume than where I'm at right now, but not for very long.
00:47:26
Speaker
So we don't have to go like really slow progression, but I can't just go back to 110, 130, 140k weeks like that. So it's not kind of like you'd be building back off off array so it's it's a So it's a nice place to be. Honestly, it's more just the fact that in...
00:47:41
Speaker
the last two weeks since UTA, except for the fact that like ignoring my knee, I haven't thought about my leg once, which that's the first time in a year and a half. So that feels like a really big, and i'm I'm only realizing that now as I'm talking about it. So that feels like a really big step. And then, yeah, The you UTA was a case of, can we build the re like can we get me back to a point where I can just go and run 22K with that elevation?
00:48:07
Speaker
doesn't have be hard, but it still felt hard, but it doesn't have to be like fast and aggressive. But we just want to finish it confident that my body's not just suddenly going to turn around and break down again. So that's very much where where that got to and that's the result that's come come off it. So it's it's yeah it's exciting for anyone. I think anyone that's kind of gone through a long-term, Brody, as you're in the middle of it right now, there's so many moments when you're coming back where you just wonder, like, am I ever going to feel good again? am I ever going to trust my body again? Am I ever going to be able to train without getting injured again?
00:48:37
Speaker
And my journey isn't even that long compared to what a lot of people go through. And some people, there they're managing stuff for their whole life. So... It's yeah, feel, feel, feel pretty grateful to be at a point where I think like this week we're back to, we're going up, yeah, six days and we'll be close to nine hours of running again. And I haven't done nine hours of running and for for a very long time. And that's kind of the point around that sort of window is when I start to really feel myself have, have enough load to be getting fitter.
00:49:05
Speaker
Whereas it's kind of felt like I've obviously been getting fitter, but it felt like we're more just been reintroducing stuff up to now. And then from now I can be cool, let's try and get fitter. Yeah, yeah.
00:49:15
Speaker
Yeah, nice. Very exciting. Well, I feel like I'm a long way from there. Yeah, how how ah how are you going? Yeah, like I feel like I was as on two weeks ago. I don't know if that much has changed. Like little bits are changing day by day, but um yeah, it's pretty slow. um not a Not a heap has changed. i'm Mostly walking, well, I'm pretty much...
00:49:39
Speaker
exclusively walking around without crutches now. um When I was allowed to go to crutches to start like off crutches, I still had to use them um for a little bit, whereas now I can sort of just do whatever and I'm not having any issues. um So, yeah, that's going pretty well. um I'm in the gym, starting to do some stuff. Like my calf is like so weak, like incredibly weak.
00:50:04
Speaker
I can like... isometrically just move 20 kilos in seated knee so that's not very much um i think like when i was working on my achilles with lochie my like max that i could we were trying to work towards two times body weight so that was more like 130 to 140 um that I could probably just move for like a second. So it feels like quite a long way from that. um I've lost a lot of muscle bulk.
00:50:37
Speaker
um And at this stage, i'm so because I'm still in the boot, I'm still sort of wasting. So really I'm just hanging on to what I currently have. um So, yeah, it's another week.
00:50:48
Speaker
Can a bit in the boot, maybe a bit longer depending on how things are going. um But yeah, it's just slow. I'm on the exercise bike with my cam boot. It's not very enjoyable.
00:50:59
Speaker
That's about all I'm doing, that and the gym. I've started doing some normal like double leg exercises, ah like just like basic squat, um deadlift and...
00:51:12
Speaker
uh hip thrust but just with like much reduced weight just trying to keep the movement pattern um because obviously with the cambo it's a bit weird i'm a bit yeah unbalanced and one leg's a bit higher so um yeah i'm doing little bits and pieces yeah it's gonna be a long journey so how long has it been now ah It's been eight weeks yesterday. but um And then it's like the fastest possible I would start running, I think, is around 16 weeks.
00:51:43
Speaker
um So when you're... it's still two weeks. I'm only really halfway to doing like very basic return to run. Yeah. I think it's, if you're happy to talk about it, I feel like it is interesting for people because there's a certain people listening to this podcast will either be in this right now or will will experience this at some point. Unfortunately, that it's just the case of of running, even if it's just you step off a rock or whatever it was and your ankle goes. um How have you found it to be like coping with where you are, what's ahead, where what's happened to you? Like when you're at week eight versus say weeks two to three, because I personally found it was almost... to a degree the closer I got to the to like the next stage almost the worse it got because you kind of like you have that realization of where you're like what's going on yeah I think I mentioned last time I was on or maybe just talking to people that the whole time I've actually been pretty good from a like a
00:52:36
Speaker
existential crisis point of view that like if I don't get back to elite level run running I'll be fine like I've I don't know no one finishes their career going I've achieved everything I wanted to achieve I feel like I'm longer away from that than some people and more than I would have liked because I've sort of messed with the last three years and haven't allowed myself to sort of work towards my potential um But I've also, like I don't know, you you can look back on all your decisions and go, i shouldn't have done that, shouldn't have done that, shouldn't have done that. And it's very easy to do that. um But I've experienced a...
00:53:15
Speaker
Rich level of racing, traveling, seeing stuff, experiencing highs, lows. Like I feel like if it finished now, obviously I want to continue. But like if I never have I had this dread that I won't get back to it because I think if I don't get back to it, I feel okay still.
00:53:34
Speaker
um which is interesting i didn't think i would be at that point i'm the sort of person that's been like i'm gonna run for as long as i can competitively as long as i can whereas i have like friends in orienteering who like got to 30 and they'd be like i've had enough of doing this i just want to not i don't want to be competitive anymore um whereas i've never been like that so it's an interesting feeling to have that peace with that side of things What I've nearly struggled more with is like the will I get back to being able to run and train and like because I still want to train even if I'm not competitive. Will I be able to get back to being active and and and and pushing myself in the mountains and that sort of stuff even if I'm not competitive? Will I be able to do it at all? That's the bit that I'm a bit like worried about. um Nearly less so on my left and more on my right, which is the non injured side, like the left one. I'm like, oh, maybe this will fix it. Whereas the right one, I'm still having I'm still having like my bursa getting inflamed and I'm not running.
00:54:35
Speaker
um and it happens at weird times. Like I'm i'm really – I'm doing still rehab for it. um So I'm pushing it and some of it will be related to the rehab, but some of it's not related to the rehab and I'm doing more in the rehab than I ever have. So maybe when I get back to running, it won't actually be an issue. I don't know. But um it just feels like it's the sort of thing that is not going to go away without addressing the anatomy. So I'm starting to think that I will –
00:55:06
Speaker
need to have surgery on the other side as well, which at the moment is this like just like, I just don't want to do it. But um I don't know. We'll see there's a lot of There's a lot to happen, but it was sort of like what you were saying with like the, oh, is this...
00:55:19
Speaker
am I going to get back to the point where I can actually do the thing I enjoy doing? Not even if you take away the competition point, just the, I want to go out and run in the mountains. Will I get back to being able to do that without stirring my Achilles up?
00:55:32
Speaker
Um, I'm not sure at this stage, which is, I think that's the thing I'm struggling with the most. Yeah, no, I can imagine. Like, it it sounds like your relationship with what the sport, what you need out of the sport has changed.
00:55:44
Speaker
um And I would say that like a large part of that is probably what also you've got coming up very soon with becoming a dad. um But at the same time, like, there's something that is... people that like to push themselves, whether it's to come first in the race or it's to finish a race, like that doesn't leave you. And and so like the idea of being able to train hard, regardless of what the endpoint is for that, yeah, it it is. it It's it the thing that like I probably missed the most was I missed the social element.
00:56:14
Speaker
I miss the adventures and I really miss working hard. Like I like to push myself because the physical challenge, the mental challenge when you're when you're in it, like I feel I get a lot of reward from that. um And I don't know what I would, it put I don't know what I would do if I couldn't do that with running.
00:56:29
Speaker
Probably back to the gym, but yeah for me that was, Yeah, and I guess I've always run. Running has been everything. I've never done another sport, um so I don't actually know what I would do. Like I've done a fair bit of riding and it doesn't quite hit the same. I don't know. There's something about being able to run, like look up at the top of a mountain and go, I'm going to run up there and then get to the top and have a sick view. Like I do it so much when I've traveled.
00:57:00
Speaker
And I guess that's the other thing. Like running allowed me to travel so much. that like and then on my travels, I've always like I even think of like a few years ago when I was in um Albania, like we were staying at this like beautiful Riverside Hotel we had to catch a boat into.
00:57:16
Speaker
like I decided it would be fun to try and like climb up this like steep ass slope behind us like it would have been like 40 percent there was this very rough mountain trail and there was like mountain goat up there that was like the only thing that could like manage it and I was like crumbling and it was like there'd been like a bit of a landslide and I was like oh that's all right I'll get up through this and like I got all the way up to the top and I'm like standing up on top of this thing and I've i've got the picture of it and it's just like I just love doing that stuff.
00:57:43
Speaker
And um so I think that sort of stuff I should be able to do. But like that sort of thing in running is is what I want to do. And I don't want to be defeatist, but like I don't really want to run with the symptomology that I've had the last three years because it just hasn't been enjoyable and it also hasn't equaled.
00:58:02
Speaker
At times it has equaled okay performance, but it hasn't equaled performance. So I don't yeah i don't think it's worth it. like yeah you know is that the thing is like Do you push through the thing or do you do some things you can push through? And I tried to push through this one pretty hard and didn't quite get the outcome that I probably was looking for.
00:58:23
Speaker
Yeah. ah Like if you can, yeah, if you can push through and you can still get to your top level of performance, then I guess there's probably an argument ah at ah times for that, depending on the person, depending on the reason. But yeah, like said, you, we weren't seeing the best from you.
00:58:36
Speaker
So you can do that in a lot of pain and not get what you really want out of it. Yeah. Yeah. On the flip side, I've been doing a lot of like coaching, a lot of reading, like I've had a bit of spare time. So I've been trying to like up, so well not the, yeah, upskill do more reading on the stuff that I find really interesting, like physiology and, and, and training theory and that sort of stuff. And,
00:58:58
Speaker
Like I sort of want to apply some of that stuff on myself as well. So like on the flip side is like not even from a competition standpoint, I just want to like put some of it into practice. And obviously I am with the the athletes that I coach. um I get to put some of that into practice. um So yeah, um it's it's cool that i I think I still get that.
00:59:19
Speaker
I'll still get that sort of competitive side from even just the athletes I'm coaching. So it's i'm I'm not too worried about that, but i just want to get back to running. Yeah, for sure. so Bridget, when we're saying like the reasons why why we run, what's your reason for doing it Um, a good question. I think I just want to get to the point where I'm the best that I could possibly be.
00:59:45
Speaker
and I think something that constantly drives me forward is I never want to get to the point when I'm like 50 or something and looking back and saying, oh well, if something was different, I could have been this. Like, I just, I want to find out now what I could possibly do.
01:00:00
Speaker
um yeah that definitely drives me forward it and I just love it I love yeah yeah racing running as fast as I can in sessions it's just so much fun given how intensive your studies are at the moment and you're going to go into a job that is also very time and energy and and like the emotional element of it as well is is it ever hard for you to kind of give that time to your running when you've got so much else going on ah know I know.
01:00:26
Speaker
I mean, i kind of prioritize running. i You know, running is my full time job and medicine is my side hustle kind of thing. um Yeah, it means I definitely don't get the time to study as much as I would like for medicine. And I'm often like leaving my placement an hour or two early so I can get to training and things like that.
01:00:47
Speaker
um And I still have one more year of study left after this. um I'm not quite sure how I'm gonna be able to fit everything in once I graduate um and have an intern job where you know i have to be working overtime and night shifts and things like that. I don't know how that's gonna look with running.
01:01:06
Speaker
um And yeah, like I've considered maybe I'd have to do that part time, but yeah, like at the moment, At the moment I can fit it in just.
01:01:17
Speaker
and The few runners in the States that I've heard that have gone through residency, is that what you call it? Like the next day? Yeah. And yeah hearing about 3am treadmill runs because that's the only time you can fit it in or it's like, or it's 11pm and all they're having to like, they the only way they can run is if they can you commute to where they're working and run there and run back all hours of the day. So it Yeah, it sounds it sounds hard, um but at the same in the same vein, it's like probably two things that you really love because I feel like medicine is not something you can do if you don't love it because of how intense it it is. And so we' kind of we're pretty good at finding ways to do the things that we really want to do.
01:01:54
Speaker
Yeah, totally. We'll find a way. yeah Yeah, I'm planning to get on the run commutes. I reckon that's going to be back half of the year, hopefully, when I'm back doing some running. um But I feel like it's going to be a good way to maximize time so I can be home as much as possible. um Because, like, you know, when you go to work all day and then you get home and it's, like, 5, 5.15 and then you, like, have to go out and and train, it's, like... I don't know, then you're you're not home properly until 7 and then yeah you haven't participated in the dinner cooking potentially and all that sort of stuff. And I think adding the family element to that, um yeah, i can see I can definitely see the utility of the run commute. I know Phil Gore does a lot of run commutes, so I'm going to get amongst that, I think.
01:02:44
Speaker
think it was Harvey Lewis as well over in the States. I remember him a couple of years ago. Like he was was always going about like the backpack he was using for his run commutes, but just that's their way of getting it in, especially like if you're you're a new dad and obviously baby won't be sleeping a hell of a lot, but we'll be going to bed very early and like you want to be interacting and through dinner time and stuff. It's yeah, it would definitely be tricky. Run commutes don't really work for me.
01:03:05
Speaker
i I have to walk a meter to get into my office. So I can't really do too much of that.
01:03:11
Speaker
Cool. Move on, Brody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, we're going to move on to a couple of news items from this week. The main one, or not the main one, but the first one, Cab Off The Rank, was just a post that, and something I've been thinking about for a while, I know James has been thinking about. We're both on the Autra Trail Subcommittee, so we're talking about this topic a little bit on there as well um in terms of youth and junior participation in the sport in general. um But, yeah, a post from Ruth Croft this week, which I thought like just highlighted it so well um and a lot of like what I was thinking and and cool to see from someone who is –
01:03:55
Speaker
such an ultra focused athlete as well and hearing a little bit about her story into the sport and her opinions on this. So I'll just read part of it. It's quite long. So if you want to if you want to jump on and have a look, head over to her page on Instagram. um But I'll just read a part of it out.
01:04:12
Speaker
So ultras have always existed, but over the last few years, they've become far more visible, popular and celebrated. a lot of the messaging around them revolves around suffering, pushing through pain and constantly testing your limits.
01:04:24
Speaker
And there is pride in that. And that mindset is often praised. By no means am I saying teenagers shouldn't challenge themselves and I'm definitely not trying to gatekeep endurance sport. I honestly understand the draw. When I was younger, I was always a kid who wanted to do more.
01:04:38
Speaker
But the pathway looked very different then. It was track, cross-country, mountain running and road relays all through the club system. There was progression, variety, and time to slowly develop. I didn't run my first ultra until I was 24. And then she talks a little bit about adolescence and their development. I'll just skip through to a little this part at the end. um For me, being young in sport should be about building a foundation grounded in the joy of movement, developing technique, speed, and a healthy relationship with training.
01:05:06
Speaker
As adults, whether we're coaches, parents, race organizers or mentors, it's on us to make decisions that prioritize long-term health over short-term achievement. Because the goal isn't just to see how far they can go now, it's to make sure they're still running healthy and happy years down the line and they have a body that enables them to do just that. um So, yeah, that was something that i yeah really resonated with me um and something that I think is, yeah, a bit of a gap in trail running in general as a sport, definitely a gap in Australia in terms of how we look after and support junior participation um and then even up into sort of youth and under 25s.
Discussion on Ultra Running Culture
01:05:51
Speaker
And even some of the things, Bridget, you were saying in terms of the single track trail team and some other bits and pieces um sort of just highlights how much of a gap there is compared to other sports where there is a lot more effort on pathways ah progression. And I think that's a bit what Ruth was sort of referring to her with her sort of club upbringing through those other sports. So you can do it through other running, but in within trail running,
01:06:17
Speaker
there isn't as much and I guess our mountain running scene isn't very big in Australia so it's it's not really a huge part of the pathway maybe that's a bit different in New Zealand um but yeah it was just something that definitely resonated a lot with me oops sorry got a fire alarm going off um i might let you guys okay it's stopped now but i might just check on that i'll let uh yeah wait did you i don't know if i obviously i read out the post and i sent it through to you guys beforehand any thoughts on like what she's saying i think like bridget obviously you're a great person to talk about with this because you are that person that is on that sort of pathway where you're building slowly and not sort of rushing through to the longer distances but any thoughts from your point of view Yeah, I kind of have two.
01:07:04
Speaker
um I guess specifically in the trail scene, seems like there is a lot of pressure to go up to the ultras. um Like I've been asked in multiple interviews, you know, when I'm going up to the 50.
01:07:19
Speaker
um And for example, UTA, like the 22 didn't have any prize money at all. um And they don't have any elite support either. So I had to buy my entry at full price.
01:07:30
Speaker
um And there's just, they don't consider the sub-ultras to be a competitive distance at all. And I think even on the website, it'll say like for people who aren't quite ready for ultras or for people who are just getting into trail running and things like that. And it's totally not what it is at all.
01:07:49
Speaker
um Yeah, I think especially 20K distance really can be ah fun competitive distance. And also, I'd say like a fun one to watch as well because it's shorter. Like you don't have to sit in front of the TV all day to like, i don't know, get a gist of what's going on. Like moves can be made in the really short term. And I think, yeah, that could be quite interesting to watch.
01:08:11
Speaker
um Yeah, and then I guess there's no kind of mountain running in Australia, I suppose, but I guess my view on the 10K trails that we have in Australia, I understand that that is sort of a niche that does cross over a lot with cross country because cross country is 10K. So I think if you're focusing on that, given that we don't really have many dedicated mountain races like VKs and things like that,
01:08:36
Speaker
Like, I don't know, maybe I can understand that a bit more. um And then the other thing I was going to say is even if you look at um the collegiate athletic system in America, the NCAA, the women even through like into their twenty s their cross country is only six kilometers long and that's for people who are distance runners.
01:09:00
Speaker
Um, so yeah, it's just, I think especially people who are younger, like use this opportunity to focus on your speed because that is something that you have an advantage in. Like you have the potential to build your speed up more so than maybe people who are a bit older where you can perform better at the longer distances.
01:09:21
Speaker
Um, Yeah, I think there really should be no rush to focus on the ultras. Like, yeah, have fun doing the short stuff first and that'll sort of give you the opportunity to um like build a su sustainable relationship with the sport long term. Yeah, I think you said at the start bridge, like the the messaging that we get around the sport is the 10K, even the 20K, sometimes even the 30K is the the gateway, the stepping stone to get into the ultras.
01:09:50
Speaker
And you see it it's not just UTMB, like so many different race organizers, single track don't get behind the 10K at Buffalo. Like there's there's this big chasm that just creates this immediate barrier of like, okay, if there's no communication, there's no attention, there's no like clear pathway because if, if juniors come in, they're kind of told immediately, well, this isn't good enough. We want more from you. You've got to go longer.
01:10:14
Speaker
And if you don't want to go and do that, then, there's not a place for you in the sport. Like to me, that's kind of how it comes across. And so as somebody that coaches juniors as well, like I don't want them to come into an environment where at the ages of like under 18 or even up to sort 21, 22, the pressure is to go longer. If A, they're not ready for And like you say, it's the perfect time to develop their speed. Like the aerobic side, the endurance, like that is going to develop off not that much volume at that stage of their life. And it's going to take years to fully...
01:10:46
Speaker
show itself. That's why we're seeing people in their 30s, 40s, Ludovic Pomeroy in their 50s, like still like smashing a hundred miles. there's plenty of time for that, but the the skips and development that this is then causing. And I understand if you're drawn to the hundred K, like if youre you're drawn to being out there for ages, I get it. It's fun. It's exciting. it's exhilarating. But if we did everything that was fun and exciting, exhilarating in our lives, we we would have a lot of probably issue problems going on. So like it it is good to to kind of it. Are you comparing ultra running to illicit drug use, James? No, i'm am I'm not comparing it to anything. I am being very good right now. um but my my my point being is that like just because – and it's a conversation you haven't you have in coaching for for anyone. Just because something can be done doesn't mean that it should be done.
01:11:34
Speaker
And it's it's why people get injured. It's why people get burnt out. It's why people don't stay in the sport that long. Is that like, just because you can go out there and run 100K, just because you can train for 15 hours a week, just because you can go and summit mountains every day, like that's not the reason to do it. If...
01:11:52
Speaker
you want to be around for a while and if you want to develop well as an athlete and if you want to create an environment and a community that actually looks welcoming and engaging. The other side of it, again, like you're saying, is that we don't have the event side to it. So I think the the main thing when with Ruth's post where she was saying how I was trying to get this point. Yeah. Like they had the track, the cross country, the mountain running and the road relays. Victoria has got a really good cross country scene. i think Canberra or DST has a pretty decent one. And correct me if I'm wrong, Bridget, like an okay one. Um,
01:12:25
Speaker
Outside of that, i don't really think there is much. like You hear about 10 people on the start list for them. So i think one of the issues is actually kind of you need the cross-country potentially to bridge the gap into the trail. and And so for a lot of states, they don't have that gap.
01:12:37
Speaker
And then, yeah, we just don't. As we've spoken about before, we don't have that then next step for people where we do celebrate the mountain running distance. And also, you can go and do, especially as as as an adult,
01:12:48
Speaker
You could go and do two, three, realistically, you could probably go and do a eight to 12K trail event most weekends and be fine, as long as you're like, take that with some caveats. But it's very, very replicable week to week. You can learn how to race. You can really develop the racing side of it as well. And then if you're a junior, you can do that with some mu at a lot more frequency than what you could do for a longer distance race. And so developing all these other skills in running, that's not just simply the case of running.
01:13:16
Speaker
um So it's it's a it's a shame. I feel like I've kind of gone with a bit of soapbox rant here, but it's great to see Ruth putting a post out there because it is somebody that, she said she did her first ultra at 24.
01:13:29
Speaker
I'd probably say that's still quite young. and it's like don't see that as a okay i'm gonna do my first ultra at 24 it's like it's just know there's other like like we saying we're training there's other ways to do it and we're seeing it at the moment like a lot of people that are under 20 going to ultras but not just like the 50k going to the 100k or the 100 mile really young doing multiple of them very close together and just being like like why like why and well that did It could even be like like you said, 24 is young and maybe that is like for some people that might still be too young. um
01:14:04
Speaker
But it may be appropriate to do 140 or what do we say, 42K, so 150K race in the year. And the rest of the racing you did was much shorter than that. And you did that as a fun test. But it's I think at the moment we see people moving up to 100K. We're way past that, yeah. Even 100 miles and they do couple or three or four in a year and that their goal is to continue doing that. It's not like ah I'm going to try this thing and but my focus is still working on these other things. um
01:14:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's I think it's it's a very cultural thing because it's the the culture of trail running and you you see that in the – in the media around trail running even like you said that's UTMB's web page is all very focused on the ultra stuff like UTMB itself the 160k lap of Mont Blanc is seen in for trail running culturally at the pinnacle of the sport so something the pinnacle of the sport being a 160K ultramarathon means that that's like all of the messaging gets pushed that way. and and yeah It frustrates me sometimes when I see some of the media coming out of various places.
01:15:17
Speaker
A lot of out of the US, there's a very high, even like the ones, and they're still championing the short distance, but they still talk about it. And this is things like free trial and even single track there. They talk about the short distance as being a building towards the to the longer races instead of it just being...
01:15:35
Speaker
its own type of racing and I think that always means it bias people towards saying okay well the the longest stuff is the pinnacle you can't stop until you get there so you have to work your way and and some people interpret that as the faster I get there the better so I'm going to start I'm going to start going there straight away so yeah it's it's part of it is deeply rooted in the the culture of trail running But I also think there's a big opportunity and it's something I'd like to see change in Australia in the next five years for us to really champion that short stuff.
01:16:09
Speaker
And look, to be honest, if trail running gets in the Olympics, it's not going to be long. It's going to be short. No, exactly. and like ah That would actually be great for the sport in my mind. like That's one benefit to the Olympics if in that whole Olympic situation.
01:16:22
Speaker
but ah like a debate of should we be in the Olympics? Shouldn't we be in the Olympics? I feel like for me it'd be a nice balancing act between saying hey UTMB that's one of the pinnacles of our sport but so is the Olympics which is done over that it could be as short as 10k which would be crazy to think about ah I think two things pop into mind when you were talking there is that yes, at 24, your first ultra.
01:16:48
Speaker
The caveat around there, I guess the consideration is the recovery cost of that person, the 24 year old doing a 50 K is completely different than a 34 year old who's got 10 to 15 years worth of training behind them. And so if you are looking up to somebody and they go and do the 50 K and then you see them do another 50 K race four weeks later, or if you watch the golden trail series,
01:17:09
Speaker
what, two weekends ago, three weekends ago, Elazine won Zagama a marathon, then backs it up into Ledger Skyrace, which is like a 25K or something race, wins both of them. It kind of makes you go oh, I should be able to do that, right? that's That's normal, but that is the polar opposite of normal. um And so it's... Yeah, and if you look into that closer, he was pretty much one of the only people that raced both. Both, yeah. and But it's it's not uncommon to see, especially the elites that have the perfect recovery context to be able to back up big races, maybe maybe not not always week like one week after, but within two to three weeks, they're backing up again. or but like It's a completely different context when you've got somebody that's been training for four five years. As we were saying, like that's still young.
01:17:50
Speaker
From a training age, that is still very young. There's not that much you can do in four or five years, especially when you're thinking about the 20-year development opportunity and running. And so, yeah, just... If you're looking at the longer stuff, don't like just just consider why.
01:18:04
Speaker
Is it because you're you're rushing to get to it? um Yeah, I know. it's It's tricky because you don't have to tell people to not go off after what they want to do. But also it's a case of like probably not giving themselves the best opportunity to be their best self in five years when they actually could do the best or have the most fun, um look after their body, and then also create create the framework around their training to understand nutrition, hydration, sleep. like There's so many other elements to running longer that you have to consider that you don't have to consider if your race is an hour long.
01:18:35
Speaker
I think a lot of people get drawn to it as well because it's just like something that they have to do, like to be able to say that I ran 100K. That's a huge thing, right? But I think what people don't realize is that but I would say like most runners with a bit of training will be able to complete 100Ks. You can walk 100Ks. It's possible. You don't have to prove that you can. I don't know. I just don't think it's special to prove that you can do one hundred k race just for the sake of it. like I don't know.
01:19:05
Speaker
Do something faster. to Actually put in the work and then yeah do something sustainable because it's possible to do 100Ks. You don't have to prove it. I think we just got the yeah the clip for the episode there. yeah Yeah. Perfect. yeah But you're completely, you're completely, you're yeah you're completely right. bret Like it's, it is, it is, you have to put in the time you have to put in the commitment, especially if you want to run, if you run, if you want to run any distance, well, you don't just turn up on the start line and go for it, but it's a different level of challenge to go and run one hundred K at any pace and just get it done. Then trying to go as fast as you physically can over this 15 K race or 10 K race or whatever it is. Like it's, it, it is, it's another element. And I think,
01:19:46
Speaker
I wonder if maybe we've just put so much emphasis on the longer distance, the ultras is the more playful side. It's the fun side as well. The cool kids hang out and the, it's not cool to care and to try and get faster.
01:19:57
Speaker
But I know I personally see somebody trying to take a minute off their park run time and committing to that. Like to me, that's epic. Cause that's like, you're having to really try and figure things out and really push your body to work harder. And it's awesome as well to run your first hundred mile or 250 mile or whatever it is. But like both, both are big achievements.
01:20:16
Speaker
and it's not that like one is cooler than the other it's like it's two different options but especially when you're younger like trying to get faster become a better runner like skillfully a better runner it it will pay off tenfold as you get older i haven't done the longest distances but i'm not i like i get what you're saying there but um i don't know how you can be playful in the mountains for the distance of 100 miles like i feel like you're playful for maybe 30k of that and then after that it's a grind like you're you're in the pain cave you're in and out of the pain cave you're problem solving like it's a different yeah i feel like it's ultra running is like grounded in the the hardness and like a personal challenge and gritting your so and beating a
01:20:58
Speaker
beating a challenge, I guess, is for me is what it looks like. Whereas I think being going out for a max of three hours is playful in the mountains. like I feel like after that it's like, is it playful anymore or is it is it that you're out there sort of to really grit your teeth and and challenge yourself?
01:21:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. i've had that yet that's the question that goes down to the end individual person to me yes like yeah i love i love the maybe it's playful after the fact maybe it's just the classic type two kind of type yeah type b whatever type two type two thank you fine um it's been a day uh where you're like you look back and like oh that's really cool but to me like i i do love when you create a link up that you know and it gets it it comes down to training like most people can't do this it's like if you you're a guy or anyone trying to run a faster 5k like once you once you're under 30 minutes you're in a very small minority of people once you're under 20 minutes for a guy or 23 minutes for a female you're in a very small minority and then you start talking about like what what the pros do or even like the sub elite like
01:22:01
Speaker
and it's the same thing for going and doing a 50k 60k 100k run like you are in a very small minority of people that can do it and you've had to put the commitment to get there um to me both have hard spots and my personal psychology is i'd rather but i'd be out there in the mountain i don't know i'm listening to it right and i'm like i i don't know if i'd rather be out there or just run a 5k um yeah Depends. Depends what you're searching for at that moment, I think. Yeah. um I'll finish this little discussion off just with, I think that the the cool thing to say, and it's it's good that Bridget's here, is that we have some some really good role models now doing the short distances. And I think that for me is like really key. And I'd love to see brands get behind these people as well. So I'm in your corner, Bridget, for sure. Yeah.
01:22:50
Speaker
It's cool to see people like Bridget Katinka going over to the World Mountain Running Champs. like Those people are being role models for the young people. In the men's side, you've got James Barnett who who did himself go to the long stuff and he's come back and started really sort of – I think he's a and a great example of someone who's – tried the long stuff ah maybe a tad too early and he's come back to this short stuff and he's really flourishing and I think seeing someone like him um him race and and then some some more on the female side, like it's great to see that. um
01:23:24
Speaker
The thing what we need is more races and opportunities for these people to compete because and and for it to be showcased. So I think there's a place for sponsors, there's a place for events,
01:23:36
Speaker
They have some of these events already showcasing them a little bit more, um telling the storylines, not always focusing on the long stuff. So I think there's a lot of people that can do a lot of things to to help with this um and change the culture bit by bit over time. And I don't want to take away the culture of ultras and how special they are, but I think there's ah there's a time and place for them is sort of my my overall feeling. So, yeah.
01:24:04
Speaker
and Ruth's last point that goes ah as adults, whether we're coaches, parents, race organizers or mentors, it's on us to make decisions to prioritize long-term health over short-term achievement. Like it does, it does come to come to conversations like these, like it's, if I was a 20 year old boy again and I wanted to go and do something like If my parents told me to not do it, I'm probably going to doubly go and do it. But if you're looking up to her a mentor or role model, is somebody you respect and you see them double downing on on this or you have a coach in your corner that's saying, and like this is what you, like right now, this is where you're going to be great at. Like this is where we we should put the folks to focus on. Like that goes a really...
01:24:41
Speaker
really long way and even in our as a very very small scale so example of this when we do the results now we're conscious to go often the winner of multiple distances rather than focusing on what may be the marquee distance for that race and and missing out the the 10k short course or something um because why why were we miss like when i was doing the run cheese why wasn't i putting that putting that in And it is it just speaks to the sport-wide prioritization of the longer distance events.
01:25:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure we'll be talking about this for a long time in the future because it's it's a long way from from being solved, I think. But, um yeah, it's a good discussion to have and good to have so on someone someone. Such a ah great guest for the the the topic as well, Bridget. So thank you for coming on. um Good timing.
01:25:36
Speaker
um All right. Well, let's ah move on to one more thing and then we'll we'll jump into the results because I just noted we we've been going for ah
Review of Ernie Old's Trail Tee
01:25:45
Speaker
for a while. um So as you would have heard at the front of the episode, this week we are brought to you by Ernie Old. um So we're going to be doing a little bit of a review of their Melbourne Trail Tea, which is out now. It's been out for a couple of months. um But they've just I think they're just getting some new stock in of most sizes. So they had sort of run out of a few sizes. But I think now if you head over to their their site, you can find a better range of sizes. So James, you've been trying out the top. um I've been trying out the top, but I haven't been running in it. So I have some feedback, but it's maybe not as ah relevant as yours. do you want to get us started? What's your what's your thoughts?
01:26:31
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So I think like when you, well, when the top arrived, the first thing that kind of hit me was like, okay, it's really light. It felt like a nice material. wasn't really sure what the material was. i think it's, I'm just looking at the specifications. It's 27% elastane.
01:26:45
Speaker
ah So it kind of, I can't describe it. It doesn't feel, it feels different. It feels quite light. It's definitely a different fabric, isn't it? Compared to any other running top I have, it feels different.
01:26:56
Speaker
Yeah. And I wasn't sure how that was going to go on a run. um and it's quite a boxy fit as well, which is like a bigger guy I quite like, um, but it's not, it's not oversized. So it's not like it's going down to your mid thigh. It stops where you would expect it to, but it's just like a bit of a looser fit, which if you were a small frame, problem maybe, and you don't like that fit, it's probably not the style for you, but, I honestly, I really enjoyed it. Um, think the first run i messaged the group and I was quite critical about the sweatiness of it, of, of like me in it, but not because the shirt was hot, but because I was just like, I think I was having a bad day basically. But after that run, I've, I've honestly, I've, I found myself like normally I'm wearing my coaching stuff, um, because I've got to rep the brand of course. Uh, but I've just been finding myself reaching for that, especially like more often than but the most out of everything, to be honest, that I've got.
01:27:46
Speaker
Um, it has meant that I've, I've used it a decent amount. um I would probably say 10 to 15 wears or so, give or take, and a few long runs have been under under a pack. We did, and we reached out to Ernie, and they've been really good around this. i did I did find some of the stitching was coming loose around the collar, um but they've said that like that's with their sewer in Melbourne, and they've raised that as a quality issue, but like the customer service element of it was great. Like they immediately offered us another top, which was like, that's fine. All right. ah
01:28:18
Speaker
but that i don't need that but they were and it's not like it's falling apart just like bits of a couple bits coming loose my guess is that maybe it's an interaction with the pack there but like aside from that i've really really liked like the quality of the material the quality of the top uh it's super comfy um yeah if i didn't if i didn't wear all my own coaching branded stuff i would very likely just get ah and another one of these Yeah, no, it's it's such a like I would have loved to go for a run in it. I've i've done, I've been on the bike with it to just try and put it under a little bit of stress. um
01:28:53
Speaker
But yeah I really like, so like for those who don't know Ernie Old, they're fairly, very like, centered in melbourne like a lot of they try and do as much of their stuff out of melbourne which is cool to see from a brand not sending as much stuff overseas to be done or in getting it all in from overseas um so they do their design here as james was talking about they do their the sewings done in melbourne um so yeah it's pretty cool to have a brand that's working locally i really like that um and yeah i'm not a fashion person but i've been told that stripes are in um so i decided that i could wear it uh after i've been to the gym to the cafe and yeah that went down all right so yeah i feel like it's sort of it's the sort of top that actually looks it doesn't look as much like a running top so i think you very much could like
01:29:46
Speaker
Maybe I'm not encouraging people to go sweaty to their cafe afterwards, but like if you were going on an easy run or something like that and then grabbing a coffee, it'd be the sort of top that probably you just wear.
01:29:57
Speaker
I'd wear any of my running tops. I'm not a real fashionista, but um for those people who are more fashion inclined, I'm sure it's the sort of top that actually looks good as well. So yeah, I like that about it. um the It feels pretty nice.
01:30:12
Speaker
I obviously haven't run in it, but it feels pretty nice sort of sitting. And it's an interesting. It feels like slightly heavier than like I've pretty much run exclusively in Solomon Tops for the last three years. And they're they're like paper light. So I think that's why I noticed the difference. um But interestingly, it doesn't actually feel like it doesn't feel like it um sticks to me like my Solomon Tops do. I think because they're so light, they like so then stick to your skin.
01:30:42
Speaker
Whereas this one appears to like it captures the sweat, but then it doesn't like at first it feels a little bit heavier once once I get going, but then it's sort of like it seems to evaporate off quite nicely. and And I'm guessing that gives you a nice cooling effect as well. So, um yeah, I haven't obviously put it through as much running or as much of a test, but, yeah, I really like it and I'm looking forward to um getting out for a run later in the year in it because it feels like the sort of thing that would be. ah Yeah, a nice top that sort of doesn't feel like it sticks to you maybe as much um compared to some of the ones I do have.
01:31:21
Speaker
Yeah, I've definitely found that. like i've I've got a really high sweat rate. So if I go and do an hour run in even just like moderately humid or hot conditions, I'm pushing two liters an hour. So like i I'm pretty mean on clothing. And I i find that the more like the really lightweight technical stuff feels great when you put it on, but it really holds on to that moisture. And I end up just going around in a wet rag. which is pretty sad. And then also because a lot a lot of tops kind of hang maybe to like mid bum. By the time they get wet, they start kind of hanging down the bottom bum and then I can't get my waist belt as much. So it's one that like I did that I really liked. ah They called it like an oversized cropped fit. So that cropped fit meant that like it never sagged down, but it also never really felt like it held on to that much of
01:32:03
Speaker
The water and what you were saying there about the like the the airiness, the breeziness, it kept that oversized fit. So it just felt felt free. I wonder if that part of it is that it's more roomy fit in general. I think we've all had that same feedback that it feels like even it feels like it's the right size, but it feels more roomy than my other tops, like less tight. No, it's it's definitely over an oversized and oversized fit. um But yeah, I think also it's definitely on that.
01:32:33
Speaker
is it like athleisure sort of yeah you can go to the I couldn't run it and go to cafe but I could go to the gym and go to a cafe and look well probably look good like I'm like you I'm not particularly uh fashion inclined but I feel like it's a fashionable top and I it's the sort of top you wear you feel good wearing it Like I feel like, oh, maybe I've actually got a little bit of style and then the rest me wore it to the cafe a few times when I wasn't exercising just because it was, I was like, oh, I've got got to test out the fashion side of it and I got some compliments. so um that's That's pretty rare.
01:33:04
Speaker
um I didn't obviously wear it with a pack. um I think that was one of the main things they were trying to fix with this top versus the other tops in their range and why they've come out with a specific trail version was to, when you add a pack, sometimes on a top top,
01:33:20
Speaker
of different running tops. You'll notice that it frays the, frays the top where the pack is. Um, so that's what they were trying to fix partly with this, this top was one of the design features. Um, I don't know how you found that James with, did you, you wear it with a pack?
01:33:37
Speaker
Yeah, i did a ah did one two and a half hour or two hour 20 long run in it with a pack and then another like 90 or 100 minute one. i was I was trying to put it through its test. It's because obviously, even though we're partnering with them, I still wanted to like see it like, okay, can this hang on to it? Because but as a trail runner, there's not much point to a top if it can't go underneath the pack.
01:33:57
Speaker
and i had no no chafe no rubbing like i don't really put i well i don't put chaff cream on my top half uh and i didn't have any issues from this like at the the the neck is quite high but in a good way. So it it easily stayed above the shoulders of the pack. Like it was, it it would never, never cut in. The only thing that I had from it, which again, I think is really just from the amount of, the amount I sweat is that going mostly uphill, the top would maybe ride up my back a little bit towards the but but bottom of the pack. i think it was getting like pulled up and maybe because of the the short fit, but I also probably could have gone up a size. So I think if you, if you, if you get it and it feels like a little bit on the big side, that's probably not going to be an issue for you.
01:34:42
Speaker
um So yeah, no fraying. The only issue I had was the um some of the stitching around the neck, which, yeah, if if ah if i had I had purchased the top, I would have reached out and then they would have replaced it. it So like time of they were so quick and so easy from that side. And I don't think that's something that's like incredibly uncommon in running gear, given how like the test we put it through sweat and, and i and like, depending on where it's made, it goes into it. Like it's, yeah yeah it's not surprising the stuff falls apart. so Definitely something that I've had with other brands in the past anyway, the stitching. I feel like stitching's always a, can be a bit hit or miss. And sometimes it's a one-time thing. Yeah. Um,
01:35:22
Speaker
Sim did test out the pack as well, wearing it with a pack over the top of it, sorry. And she said she did four hours and she felt like it was it was very good. Again, same thing, no wear either from the pack. um And she also wore it in the rain. I'm not sure if you wore it in the rain, but the similar type of feeling with the sweat, um like it feel like it stayed really light. It didn't hang on to it compared to some of the tops. That's something I did notice, like i was saying before, like it it seemed to capture it to start with, but then it would evaporate um compared to some other tops I've run with. I feel like it if it's wet or I'm sweating a lot, it'll hang on to that fluid, ah whatever it is. um So, yeah, I think that's quite a nice feature of the material.
01:36:06
Speaker
And to be honest, the fact that we've spoken about it for 10 minutes, like saying that it's good, like it's actually a really genuine thing of like, I actually really liked the top. um It was like technically really good. Like said, I would happily, i'd'd I'd happily pay the full price for it, especially knowing how quick and attentive they were if there is something that goes wrong to it.
01:36:26
Speaker
Yeah, cool. Awesome. All right. Well, yeah, hopefully yeah we see a few Ernie Old tops on. Maybe we can do a collab with them in the future. That'd be cool. That would be cool. keep you Keep an eye out. But yeah, if you want to find out more, have a look at the top, head over to ErnieOld.com. You can find them at Ernie Old running on Instagram. We're going to tag them in our post this week as well. So yeah, go over and check them out. Thanks Ernie Old for ah sponsoring this episode and thanks for letting us try out your
Race Highlights and Local Series Importance
01:36:52
Speaker
new top.
01:36:52
Speaker
It's very good. nice one all right well let's uh move on to results uh finish up the week um i guess i can start here maybe the overseas first so we had charlie hamilton running in the maxi race in france so the maxi races um in annecy i think the the main or not the main race sorry the big race the long race is a full lap of the lake the ah The shorter distance, which is still not that short, I think it was 56 kilometers. Yeah, I think so. Is about half the lap of the lake. So they're the two main races of the maxi race. still had some other ones as well. It was sponsored Terex, which is one of the team races for Charlie and the other Terex athletes. So there was a lot of Terex athletes there. Um, and then a lot of French runners obviously, cause was in Annecy. So, um, and the French runners really overall pretty dominant. Um, they ran really well and I saw like a couple of the, um, I think I saw a post from someone from Charlie's team. I can't remember their name. I think they were just in front of him. Um, they were just, it was just how strong, yeah, how strong the French runners were in France. which is a home ground advantage, I guess.
01:38:15
Speaker
fun um But in the 56K, which is the race that Charlie was doing, um ah Simon Picard was first in 5 out of 16, Samuel Ponchett...
01:38:29
Speaker
I probably got that wrong. 526. And Dimitri Morel-Legine was third in 5 hours 29. Charlie was i think eight Yeah, I think Charlie was 8th. The results don't seem to go past 7th. And even when I export the PDF, it doesn't give me more. So I'm pretty sure Charlie was 8th because Eric said he was 7th. And then Charlie said he was 10 seconds behind Eric the whole time.
01:38:50
Speaker
That's how I figured it out. And I think that was about 5 hours 45-ish. Yeah. So say about 15 minutes off third. I'm not sure much about how Charlie felt his race went. It was his first overseas race. He's doing a stint over there.
01:39:07
Speaker
um We're hopefully going to hear from him in the next couple of weeks, which will be cool to hear. um He hadn't traveled not too long before it, so I'm sure he's using it as a bit of a build to future races. And, um yeah, it'll be interesting to hear.
01:39:19
Speaker
his side of things in the women while we're there and given we've talked about Ruth already, Ruth off the back of a fantastic run at UTA 50, I guess just two weeks later. Yeah, when we're talking about people backing up and not, don't copy it to home. Yeah.
01:39:35
Speaker
Pretty impressive backup from Ruth. She won the women's race in 6 hours 20, winning by 12 minutes over Louise Subban-Penhout in 6 hours 32 and Anais Guildo in 6 hours 38.
01:39:53
Speaker
Yeah, strong run from Ruth there. um Yeah, cool to see. She's just such a dominant power. Like not even like if you if we think Charlie was five hours 45, like she's she's not far behind that. right so And I'm sure she's just using it as an onward build to later in the year. So yeah, yeah cool cool to see from Ruth.
01:40:15
Speaker
Do you want to take us to first event back home? Yes, please do. So, pardon me, race one of the trail running series by rapid ascent down in ah kind of the whole south of Victoria, Melbourne area was at Blackwood. So for this one, a few kind of key key distances. I'm going to go through the the winners of these. So Tristan Van Pagie-Anderson took out the win there for the men's and won 37.31. Actually, it was thirty while she was in It's incredibly close racing.
01:40:46
Speaker
well It's the same in the women's show. We'll go through the top three here. So then Owen Todd, one hour 37.42, so 11 seconds back. Then Lachlan Wright, one hour 37.51, so nine seconds back. So 20 seconds covering the podium, which is great great to see, especially at at ah a local race. I know they get a lot of people coming back year after year to do this series, which is i think it's one of the the cool things with the the local trail series. um A good way to keep people going like you do, Bridget, using the yeah the cross-country and the roads over winter to keep you home bit of fun. And then in the women's, Elizabeth Dornham took out the window in 1.5707, Lauren Corridas 2.01.16, then Nicole Viren in 2.03.40. So again, only about six minutes separating the podium there. I know that the conditions were pretty wet, muddy, slippery. So it's a tough day on the course. The 16K, again, in the men's, you had Oliver Legris take out the win in 1.11.48. I'm going to shout him out because I coach him. Lockie Johnson came second in 1.11.56, so six seconds back. And Lockie was going full noise to finish off on his training peaks. It sort of spikes at 2.25 to try and catch Oliver. He was closing for the game. 2.25 heart rate.
01:42:00
Speaker
No, no, no. Pace. Ah. Going like downhill as he's sending it. No, I think I'll be be hospital of in the It's a high heart rate. Yeah, it'll be very high heart rate. In the women's eye, she has ah an interesting symbol in her surname, so i'm not quite sure what to do with this one, but Leah...
01:42:17
Speaker
shipping uh it took the win there in 1 19 08 and anna carrick second and 122 21 and then in the short course the ak george dickie took out the win there in 34 33 and then eveleen eaton in 40 01 another close race second place there andrea keen was only 40 10 so nine seconds back fun to see uh so much close racing going on Yeah, and cool, like on the on the background of the chat we were having around junior athletes and youth. Yeah.
01:42:49
Speaker
Appropriate distances for for those people as well as really anyone. um Yeah, it's cool to see this trail running series. I've done one of their races before actually a few years ago, one of the first one first trail races I did. So, yeah, super cool. um I wonder if they do anything from a – like a junior point. I know they do age group prizes, I think maybe, but I wonder if they do anything from a junior point of view, try and sort of highlight that.
01:43:15
Speaker
Yeah, I'll have a look whilst we yeah as as we're talking, but it's, yeah, either way, it's just, it's that whole thing about it's creating access, it's opportunity. They've got an 8K, it's like they celebrate, from what I can tell, all all of them. um And following it, coaching people doing it, a lot of people I coach that that live in that area love doing these. It seems like they do run it really well in Rapid Ascent, obviously a massive organizer across multiple sports. So If you are yeah if you are in the Melbourne area, i think definitely a cool one to pick up and give a try. Going other side, well, kind of middle of the country, the Myponga loop, which is over in South ah south Australia. I stayed in Myponga a couple years ago and I tried to run this loop and quickly realized that most of it is on private property. So always find those races quite fun because that's something that you can't run any other time of the year unless you go and do the race. So they had the long course and the short course.
01:44:10
Speaker
The long course was won by Max Stevens in 1.14.27. And then Erin Potterhaast took out the win for the females and won 31.46. And the short course won by Charlie 25.31, and Anna Pierce in 32.16. Nice. you want to keep going or have you...
01:44:26
Speaker
us germanym keep going or you Yeah, you hit it. That WA one doesn't have one. The Cal Barry. there was, I'll see if it's when I was getting it ready. No, it keeps linking me to 2023 when I click the results. So we can't do the Cal Barry Big Oda Bash trail run, unfortunately. So we're moving on to the Jolly Jumbuk trail run in WA. know we always say it, but I just ah do appreciate the names of the WA races. So,
01:44:55
Speaker
In the black course, I think it's the long course, Conradale took out the win there for the men in 144.42. And then in in the females, Sarah Guilfoyle took the win there in 156.47. Scrolling down for the blue course, yeah, the blue course in the men's, Trent Sevier took the win there 107.43. And Madeline McLaren for the females in 121.06. And I think there might be one more distance.
01:45:23
Speaker
Yep, in the greens, stuew Hopkins took the win there at 21-13 and Ebony Regan took the win for the women's in 21-30. Yeah, yeah second overall.
01:45:34
Speaker
That's cool. Nice. I can take us to Queensland where we had off the beaten track trail series. Uh, they had, uh, 18K, 5K. So similar distances again. um I'll give us the, let's go through the winners of each. So for the 18K in the women's, we had Trinity Donovan in first in one hour, 49, 12.
01:46:02
Speaker
twelve In the men, we had Ryan Murray in 1 hour 38.12. and In the 11K, we had Ella Chappell first in the women's, 1.24.32.
01:46:14
Speaker
Just talking about ages there, she's in the 19 to 29 category. And then second and third, Abigail and Isabella Preston were in the under 18 category. So very cool to see. so um And then in the men's, another in the under eighteen teens Eli Flanagan was the winner in 1-13-32. So some good things going on up in Queensland. ah In the 5K in the women's, the winner was Rebecca Malcolm in 37-31 and the men, Aaron, oh, he's giving me a tough one, Tysimoshininskaya. That's definitely wrong.
01:46:50
Speaker
Also in the under 18. So nice run there. Aaron should have stayed with Aaron 29, 26. So that was off the beaten track. Another race in Queensland. Yeah, I can take us to it. You want to go to that one? I got a message from Billy Curtis, pretty excited about David Vernon's run to take out the win in the 25K, I think he was basically saying that Dave Vernon, who is Scottish, I think is maybe looking at becoming an Aussie, which would be very exciting for us because we've seen his name popping up quite a few times. I think I've heard him say that before. So that's very cool. Actually, I think he may already have done it.
01:47:30
Speaker
yeah we'll claim him so yeah i think he will be by next year anyway yeah yeah which yeah he's definitely making a very a very good case for him for himself at the moment and uh well probably probably the the mountain distances um but we'll we'll see we'll see what he decides to do yeah he was win 150 12 jack gill 152 29 and jeremy may 204 17 so three names we're pretty familiar with there For Jack, that's a pretty good run. If he's two minutes off David, and and we know how good David's been this year, um like he beat Nath at Tarawira and and then obviously won the mountain running champs. Like that's a great run for Jack.
01:48:08
Speaker
Yeah, think it's a really impressive run. Also great for David, but just comparatively wise, well done Jack. I'd be pretty happy to be two minutes behind David, I think. in in one of the other other races there's a a very informed female which i'll get to but i think anyone that's close to a name name like david he's doing pretty well at this distance at the moment so yeah in in the women's race you had uh kathy birth lot winning in 230 11 alana 235 10 and then flora jang in 235 50. we also had the 15k two thirty five ten and then flora zhangng in two thirty five
01:48:41
Speaker
fifty we also had the fifteen k So we have Tobias Chappell took the win there, 108.38. Brad Aird, 111.48. And Scott George, 112.43. And then Joanna Hepton took out the win, 107.57. You'll also notice that's the overall win as well. She was...
01:48:59
Speaker
or 40 seconds clear. And then she was also 13 minutes clear of second place Ella Heineger. And then third was Regan Ellis in 120-52. So there was only 20 seconds separating second and third. And it just sort of speaks to the caliber of Joe that she is ah yeah pretty something pretty special. pretty quick for 15K, even if it's...
01:49:23
Speaker
And like I saw the 25K was like had a thousand or 900 meters of climb. So I'm assuming the 15K still had a bit of climbing. So that's was a decent time. Yeah. So we also had the 9.3K. So I really appreciate they've actually said 0.3K.
01:49:37
Speaker
I like that. So Kyle Davis took the win there in 45-24 and Emma McCullough for the women in one zero three six And then lastly, the 4K, you had Jack Renee 23-46 and Lisa Nordstrom in twenty three thirty which also is another female taking out the overall podium win. Yeah, nice. Fantastic. And then one race that's still going on, we have another Backyard Ultra on at the moment and...
Upcoming Trail Races Preview
01:50:03
Speaker
Oh, is Dead Cow Gully the biggest one usually in the year? Like I feel like it's the one I've heard the most about in the past. Maybe it's because it's where the – is that where Phil's record's from? Yeah. So I think it was last year where Phil and Sam Harvey went to 119 18 yards. It looks like – I've just clicked back onto their Facebook – It says out on loop 62. So I don't know if that's done.
01:50:25
Speaker
um But that was three minutes ago. So they might have just finished on 62. It's so so testament to who who can just stay in it. But yes, I thought we were not not always covering the back guard ultras, but given the caliber of last year's one. Hard to follow. They finished midweek. Well, yeah, exactly. We're normally normally still going. but yeah I think out on 62 means they just went out, I think.
01:50:49
Speaker
Oh, okay. there was Anyway, there was three people left at 60, and i it doesn't have their names, but Jaden, Sam, and Hirotu. right So good on them. Keep going.
01:51:01
Speaker
Yeah, cool. Nice. nice So, yeah, that's ah that's the results for this week. ah We'll give you the final outcome of Dead Cow Gully next week. And, yeah there's a lot of races happening next weekend. across the country.
01:51:16
Speaker
actually believe it when I was writing all these down. It just keep going. Yeah. Yeah, and there's a few happening down in the south. ah A few weeks ago, it felt like everything was trans going up up the country. We're getting more in Queensland and that sort of thing, but there's a few happening down south as well. So in Canberra, the Sur Chinmoy, Canberra Trail Series, Red Hill, another local series, Simpson Desert Ultra.
01:51:40
Speaker
Is that where Simone's going to? I feel like she is. Yeah, cool. So we'll maybe hear from Sim about that in a couple of weeks. unbreakable in victoria sounds like maybe a back out ultra i don't know that is it's um it is like uh why am i blanking this what's the one that lazarus lake runs the one that just does five laps every barclay marathon oh it's like the barclay is this the one up in marysville Yeah, so it's it's kind of the same vibe. It's meant to be, I think, five 20-mile laps, but it could be up to like 30 miles and through the bush and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah. Okay, there you go. ah Cool. Good luck to anyone doing that. Beautiful conditions, I'm sure. Nice and cold.
01:52:18
Speaker
ah Cape to Cape Ultramarathon in WA. Race the Pyrenees in Not the Pyrenees in Victoria. I don't know. Where's the Pyrenees in Victoria? That must be – I don't know where that is.
01:52:32
Speaker
Do you know where that is, James? ah No. Well, we'll find out. Let me get back to you. Pyrenees Shire. ah it's Oh, it's ah Mount Buanga. I don't know how you say that properly, but it's like ah they used to have a race there called, can't remember what was called.
01:52:53
Speaker
Anyway, it's past Ballarat towards the Grampians, but not quite the Grampians. It's that sort of like range of hills. Yeah, the range of hills you see when you get sort of halfway out to the Grampians from Melbourne. So cool to see.
01:53:08
Speaker
Sort of like the Pyrenees, but not quite. Run Forest Trail Run in Victoria. Sarah Terra in Victoria. On the Trails Series in South Australia. On the Edge Trail Running Series in Mount Joyce is a very similar name. Yeah. The Great Keppel Island Trail Spearwire Legend Foot Race in Queensland Winter Sun Wharf to Wharf Challenge. I'd love to know what some of these ones are about. So we might have to get back to you next week on some of them.
01:53:35
Speaker
Nice. Busy week ahead. ah That might be all for us for tonight. as' being Sorry, as you can tell, my my wits are very quickly escaping me. um Thank you to James for jumping on after a big day of work. Bridget, thank you for joining us.
01:53:54
Speaker
A big day of uni today or you were prepped for this? Yeah, day off. Canberra public holiday. Yeah, benefits of living in the capital. and Good. they have the king's but Is it King's birthday weekend?
01:54:06
Speaker
I don't even know, to be honest. Is that what it is? That's next week. So it's like a different King's birthday. It might be reconciliation and then I think next week is King's birthday. You get another public holiday. Two in a row.
01:54:19
Speaker
Whoa, that's crazy. That's exciting. Well, it's probably a bad thing because it means they're all at one time a year, not as spread out, but you get to enjoy them while they're here. So have fun with that. Thank you so much for joining us, Bridget. It was great to chat to you and thanks for chipping in. Thanks for having Yeah.
01:54:38
Speaker
I guess we'll see everyone next week. Yeah. Thanks for listening, everyone. Bridget, it's been great to ah to have you on. Catch up.