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Jess Jason | Finding Strength In Pressure
384 Plays5 days ago
This week, James sits down with your Peak Pursuits co-host Jess Jason for a deeper conversation.
We know the 'high-level' Jess from the main show, but this episode goes deeper into her own story. From growing up in the track world, to moving into road marathons, to finding trail running and suddenly being selected for Australian teams, Jess talks through the moments that have shaped how she sees herself as both a runner and a person.
They get into the good stuff, but also the harder parts: body image, food, stress fractures, coaching environments, sponsorship pressure, race anxiety, and the constant work of trying to keep running fun when it starts to feel heavy.
It’s an open, thoughtful conversation between two people who spend a lot of time talking about the sport, but this time with Jess on the other side of the interview.
At its heart, this one is about confidence, pressure, enjoyment, and why running tends to work best when you don’t let it become your whole identity.
Let us know your thoughts in the comments
***Don’t forget, use code PEAK at Bix’s website for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
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Transcript
Introduction and Marathon Reflection
00:00:15
Speaker
Jess, was about to say welcome back to the podcast and that doesn't work when you're on the podcast all the time. But welcome. We're doing a long form today. I'm excited to do this. Obviously, we've had Vlad and Sim, but yeah, we're going to get to talk to taught yourself a bit more in depth, which I'm excited. So thank you for letting me do this with you.
00:00:33
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah, no, I'm excited. um I feel like I've listened to a few of your interviews now and they're very high quality. like your a lot of people say like you're a very good interviewer, so I'm excited to be on the other side of that.
00:00:47
Speaker
I appreciate that. And then that puts no pressure on me whatsoever. Now I'm just going to clam up and suck. But no, I do do appreciate you saying that. So obviously everyone listening, the the first thing I say i so this with Sims and Vlad is that episode two, I think of PP Shoots was you introducing yourself to the podcast. And so for anyone that wants to kind high level overview about your journey into running a bit more chronological, I would say go back and listen to that now and then come back today. We're going to kind of touch on some points that you mentioned there and then speak about the stuff a bit more recent and go a bit deeper into your story. um so
00:01:23
Speaker
With that, one of the things that came across what going through your Instagram was your post from Melbourne Marathon, which a snippet of it just reads, I've never been more proud of myself, not for just finishing my first marathon or hitting my goal time, but for how much I've grown as a person.
00:01:39
Speaker
Whenever I read something like that, I think about the memories that that must bring up for the person that's writing it, especially now we're, what, nearly four years, from three and a half years removed from that moment. When you do think about that and your time on the track and roads like coming in through running, what comes to mind when you hear me say it?
00:01:57
Speaker
Oh, like that brings up so much, so many emotions to me. Like I just got that like lump in my throat just then, like just remembering how I felt um writing that post and like finishing the
Transition to Road Running
00:02:12
Speaker
Melbourne Marathon. um Yeah, and I think like that's for so many reasons. Like it was probably the first time in like years that I was like truly sort of proud of myself and like proud of like the work but also like the mindset that I had around running and like around that race.
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it was it was a really like happy moment and like, yeah, pivotal in my life, like a – Yeah, early 20s was a bit of a struggle. um And yeah, i was I think I was 27 when I ran the Melbourne Marathon, so it was back in 2022. And and yeah i think it was just like a turning point for me in terms of like maturing, but also like being a bit more confident and healthy.
00:03:07
Speaker
healthy Yeah. You said that it had been a while since you'd felt like that. When was the last time pre-Melbourne that you remember feeling that level of pride in yourself or confidence?
00:03:20
Speaker
um oh Probably like not since high school sort of thing. yeah Yeah. Yeah. What changed?
00:03:32
Speaker
I think i so for the Melbourne Marathon, um I was coached by Crosby. So i had been living in Melbourne um for a few years at that point. So I moved when I was 21 and first sort of jumped into a couple of like elite training groups over there.
00:03:54
Speaker
um So with Bruce Scriven and Peter Fortune. So there were sort of some older people um kind of veterans in the sport um so they coached people like Lyndon Hall um Kat Bissett and even like Morgan Mitchell's under Peter Fortune now um so some pretty cool cool experience like training in those environments but um It was like a little bit, like, i don't know, i find I still find that kind of old school mentality around the sport difficult to navigate um because I do think –
00:04:34
Speaker
body image comes into it a lot more than it should. um And to be honest, like i I'm still finding that today, like even in the Canberra environment. um And when I moved to Tim, I was really keen to switch from track running to road running, um mostly because I was finding a lot of enjoyment in I'd done a few half marathons just like as fun runs.
00:05:03
Speaker
And I felt like I had a bit of talent there. um But when I had sort of mentioned that to some of the coaches I was with, they had said, oh, you're not built for that sort of thing. Like you're built like a 200-meter runner.
00:05:22
Speaker
It takes a lot of like – it's really hard to like listen to that and just brush it off because – These are people that are looked up to so highly in the sport. They've been around for years. They've coached like Cathy Freeman. um Like they've got a lot of prestige. So it's it's it's it was really difficult to kind of ignore that. um But, yeah, Tim Crosby had coached a few of the girls that i I had seen that had had really good results in the marathon. So i was like, oh, I'm going to reach out to this guy and see if he'll help me. And um his approach was just so different. Like I found him to be a lot more positive and reassuring. He was probably like –
00:06:06
Speaker
the first coach I had ever had that had been, that had told me that, like, I was doing well. and um Yeah. How crazy.
00:06:17
Speaker
And, yeah, like, i yeah, I've had a bit of a rough trot with coaching and, like, um yeah it was just so refreshing to have someone that was, like,
00:06:28
Speaker
making me feel good about myself and like making me feel um confident and like reassuring me that I'd be able to do this marathon. um And yeah, that like it just showed with how I felt on the day of the race. Like I just remember feeling so calm um and like excited. And um I think that does also come like with doing things for the first time because there's There's no pressure. There's no expectation. But I think there is a part of it that um comes from good coaching and, like, building that confidence in your athlete. Yeah. um
00:07:08
Speaker
And, yeah like, it just it went perfectly. Like, I just followed his plan to a T, yeah. and ran like a few minutes faster than what we had thought so yeah it was a perfect day and i remember like crying on the finish line which is like pretty typical after you do a marathon but it was just happy tears and like so much emotion and um yeah it was a good day when you started with Tim how long how much time did you have until Melbourne was coming up
00:07:42
Speaker
um It wasn't, it was less than a year. It was probably only like eight or seven or eight months. um So I remember I joined a few weeks before i like, or maybe like a month before Gold Coast marath ah half marathon. um And so I did the half and then a few months later I did the full.
00:08:04
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. Obviously you already touched on some of the stuff that that Tim's done, but when when you do look back at that period and coming off the back of some coaching that hasn't worked for you, which ah I will come back to, but, and then thinking about the approach that Tim did, what do you think were like the main drivers that got you not just that performance, but also started to to reshape how you saw yourself?
00:08:28
Speaker
um Sorry, can you ask that again? Yeah, of course. No, I was just saying, like, but when you started with Tim, anyone that knows Tim tim Crosby, is a very particular personality, um but in a, like, a really, like, he'll tell you to it straight, but he's very endearing, like, has a, and also is extremely knowledgeable in what he does, so From a TEDx in any way that you want, what were like the main things that Tim changed or implemented that got you to feel the way you did on the start line of Melbourne? um
00:09:00
Speaker
I really, i just think it was like more the feedback after sessions and like there was like a lot of sessions that didn't go well, but he would be like, you're so strong to get through that. Like there was always something positive to bring out of the session.
00:09:20
Speaker
um
Joining Wolfpack and Running Motivations
00:09:21
Speaker
Yeah. And he was, yeah, he was just really good at like, um kind of like bringing you back to like what your strengths are um and yeah just like keeping you moving forward yeah it's it's incredible how much power just some positivity that's not not delusional but just is is helping to reinforce that trying is the success you can have yeah well when you moved across so you came from from Perth over to Melbourne to do your masters so that's correct
00:09:54
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. How old were you then? 21. Okay. And you also came in, is that when you joined the Wolfpack? Yeah. Yeah. So what was the experience like coming from a Perth environment into the Melbourne environment and then also into the Wolfpack training club?
00:10:09
Speaker
It was pretty crazy. Like, cause when you're over in Perth, like you look at all of these really good runners on the East coast um and kind of like look up to them as like idols or like like role models in the sport. And it was, yeah, like kind of surreal to be like training in that environment. I thought it was really cool. Like i was super excited and um it was really fun as well. Like, cause everyone was sort of around the same age and we were all like at uni so like just yeah we like went out on the weekends like did one like one tours and like yeah it was it it wasn't as serious as you would think like okay I think because we were all like quite young and um yeah like there were a few athletes that were like obviously taking it a bit more seriously than the rest but um
00:11:01
Speaker
yeah i don't know it was just like a really fun environment and um it was like pretty competitive at training like i think um thinking back now like some of the sessions are probably a bit too much of a race than an actual session but i think when you're young like you can probably get away with a bit more intensity Yeah. Yeah. And and there's, there's definitely a time and place where I think there's the power of training groups is immense, but maybe not every session of every week feeling like that. What was the process of joining the Wolfpack?
00:11:35
Speaker
Like, was it as simple as just getting in touch and and coming along or is it a bit more complex to that? Um, it was just like my coach that I had in Perth had the connection. So he had just put me in touch. Um, yeah.
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah. And when, when you came over, what was your like goal with running? What were you trying to get out of it? I don't think I really had a goal back then. Um, I think I was mainly doing it because it was a way for me to meet people and be social in a new city where I didn't really know anyone.
00:12:12
Speaker
Okay. yeah Yeah. So it ah it must have been being tricky then being in that environment. Like I'm guessing maybe there was this like pressure to perform and to succeed and excel because you see what those, some of the ladies have gone on to do.
00:12:27
Speaker
um But if you're kind of like not entirely sure where you're at, was it tricky being in that place in that part of that team at that time? Yeah, I think back then, like, I wasn't super focused on racing or, like, the outcomes of races. um To be honest, like, my relationship running wasn't super healthy, even though it wasn't performance focused. But, like, I think, like, a lot of the reason why I've sort of stuck with it was, um like, weight related and body image related. yeah. I thought that if I stopped running, um like I would get fat and i would get overweight.
00:13:08
Speaker
And that was probably like one of my biggest drivers. um Yeah. As well as like I do, i'm like I'm a competitive person and I do love the feeling of like being good at something.
00:13:21
Speaker
and kind of racing people and like, yeah, I do like, I enjoy that kind of environment. So like, I think it was a bit of the two, yeah but I definitely wasn't like, if I, I reckon back then, if someone said, oh, you can't race, you can't race ever again, but you can just keep training. Like I would have been totally happy to do that.
00:13:42
Speaker
When you were back at high school and you were were feeling good, did you, did you have those thoughts about running as a form of weight loss or weight control? Yeah, I think that started um in year 12.
00:13:57
Speaker
um So before then I was actually just like a sprinter, mainly doing 400 hurdles and a few eight hundred s Okay. And um yeah, at the same time, like sort of enjoying high school life, like was um like to go out and party and like running was, again, just like what I did.
00:14:23
Speaker
it was just kind of like what I had done um since primary school and like I think my parents sort of kept me in it because they're like, oh, this is – like probably good for her to keep her like um behaved even though like i remember just not wanting to go to training and like being like oh mom like i've got a sore knee to like not go to training um like making excuses and things like that um but then yeah like things did turn around i think once when you get to that age like 16 17
00:14:57
Speaker
you start to kind of think about um your body image and like things like that. um And i I had a coach at the time who I had had since I was like
Body Image and Coaching Impact
00:15:10
Speaker
12. I'd been with her since I was 12.
00:15:13
Speaker
And she was pretty focused skin folds and things like that. um And I remember when I was 17, like she said to me, like I'd had a bad training session um and she said to me, Jess, you're a bit um soft on your belly, like maybe try and do some crunches.
00:15:41
Speaker
um, after school and you'll get better or something like that. And that was, that started to make me think about like my body more. Um, and then, yeah, there was just this like turning point where I was like, Oh, like I'll just, I just won't eat breakfast.
00:15:58
Speaker
and then yeah And then it spiraled into like, I just won't eat for the whole day. And cause I saw results. Like i as I started to lose weight, I did get faster.
00:16:10
Speaker
Um, which makes sense because you don't have put as much power in or effort in to like run fast um and yeah I like sort of came down to training after like an end of season break having lost a fair bit weight and my coach was like oh you're gonna do well this season so i was like Cool, like this is what I need to do. Yeah. um And then, yeah it sort of went on for like a year and um that gets to a point where like your body just has no energy um and I just got terrible energy
00:16:48
Speaker
at running like had no energy to do it um and yeah it took like um I didn't have a lot of support unfortunately like um I remember people would just sort of like ignore it um I didn't have, yeah, like many people to help me through it and I did like definitely isolate myself.
00:17:14
Speaker
So it was, yeah, it was tricky. I remember like my teachers at school said to me, Jess, like you're doing this the easy way. Like um it's it's harder to be good at running if like you eat more.
00:17:36
Speaker
or something along along the lines of that and that really resonated with me for some reason because I was like I don't want to do it the easy way like that's just the kind of person I was um say so so they were saying that like the the hard way is to do it whilst fueling yourself but that's the better way to do it is that what they were saying yeah they were saying like oh it's easy to be good at running if you're skinny and tiny um but it's harder to be good at running if you're putting the work in and eating properly. I don't know. It doesn't make sense. Yeah, okay. But at the time, i was like, I'm not doing it the easy way.
00:18:13
Speaker
o So then i started eating again. um And, yeah, it took – that was probably when I was like – Yeah, 18 or like year 12, like last year of school. um And then, yeah, like I ah was definitely eating like in my early 20s, but I was like but definitely not eating enough and like still had like the background noise of like being smaller is better for running and all of that. And it yeah, it was probably like not till I was in my mid to late 20s that I had finally um had a healthy relationship with food.
00:18:50
Speaker
I appreciate you sharing all that. Like it's not easy or I personally don't find it easy thinking back to it, even just to kind of take take back to the emotions of like feeling sorry for that but that version of you that had to go through all of that. um And it's it's interesting hearing that it's a female coach that was the one that was reinforcing that because I feel like we often get told that like it's the men it's the male cultures or like the the old school men that see like women as small boys and therefore they should look the same and have the same body fat etc um it's yeah and it's it's incredibly powerful what people's words have on especially kids that are developing and we trust our coaches and look up to them and want to make them happy and listen to them it's really it's actually really sad to look back at it now because um
00:19:35
Speaker
Yeah, there was definitely like a few girls in my group that were all around the were all around the same age and like we really took in her advice. Like she – would say like she would go over east for like states and come back and be like oh all of the girls over there like they don't have any rest days so you guys are lazy and like she would be like they don't eat sweet potatoes there's too many carbs and things like that and we'd be oh wait all these young girls in over in Perth would be like okay that's what we need to do and
00:20:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's really sad because, like, there's a lot of girls that I train with that um had a lot of talent and a lot of them don't run anymore. or Like, they gave up running ages ago. um So, yeah, I guess that's that's why I feel like it's important to kind of tell this story because, like,
00:20:27
Speaker
like it needs to stop and I think it is getting better but like I do still kind of see it because like yeah I'll go i'll go down to um the track in Canberra and um i don't know for example like I trained with a pretty um popular group over here like that coaches a lot of amazing athletes. And yeah, I still get comments like, oh, like this session will be good for your triathlon. Like it sort of looked me up and down and go, oh, you don't do triathlon because you couldn't be a long distance runner because you're too
00:21:08
Speaker
your body doesn't look like it's the right shape kind of thing. um Which like I'm old enough now and I've had enough experience to just be like, oh, that's just silly. But like, it just makes me worry about like the younger girls that hear that and maybe like take it the wrong way.
00:21:25
Speaker
it Definitely. And just being older doesn't mean it still can't have an effect or at least it can't just like, it's my experience. It's just, it's so easy to reignite those little thought processes that you may not even realize. Um, but yeah, it's, I feel like we're, we're better, but also in a way, almost blind now to the, to this, that we think it's gone, but it's very much still, still there. Um, maybe we just don't see it as much it's not, not, not as obvious, but Yeah, no, i think it's it's ah it's a very good message to share. Like if if you were talking and giving advice to the 15, 16, 17 year old girl that was turning out to a track club and trying to get better, what would you have wanted to have heard at that age that you think would have set you and your friends up for success?
00:22:09
Speaker
think like literally just have fun. Like don't take it so seriously. um Because I don't think you need, like as long as you're having fun and enjoying yourself and like I think people that choose running, even from a young age, like they are competitive people. Like they love racing and they love like the feeling of winning. So like as long as you're like having fun and you're doing that, like the results will come.
00:22:33
Speaker
Perfect. Did you have many injuries through that period or do you manage to kind of stay clear? No, I had, yeah, a lot of injuries. um yeah Yeah, so with like the long-term effects of not eating um comes a lot of bone stress um because, yeah I guess like you don't have enough um energy to replace like what's getting sort of taken away from your bones when you run.
00:23:06
Speaker
um Yeah, i I literally lost count um oh wow how many ah stress fractures I had. I think they started from around 1920 and and i probably had like two or three at least stress reactions a year. um Yeah. say how How does that make you feel about trusting your body now in training?
00:23:34
Speaker
Um, I'm definitely getting there. Like, yeah, the last one I had was after the Melbourne marathon actually, um which was, i remember it being like pretty, a pretty hard pill to swallow because I was like, Oh, I'm healthy now. Like,
00:23:50
Speaker
I'm doing all the right things. I'm eating enough and I'm fueling myself, but I've got this stress fracture and it's like, it's not really supposed to happen because I'm healthy now. But um yeah, there's a lot of factors that come into it. Like it's not just eating enough. um There is...
00:24:08
Speaker
The training side. So yeah I've had to learn to chill out with the training. um I think when I sort of build up to Melbourne Marathon, like I had built myself up to the most amount of volume that I'd ever been able to handle.
Trail Running Adventures
00:24:27
Speaker
Um, and I was like, oh, this is amazing. Like, I'm just going to keep doing this. And then, um, the trail running stuff came on the cards and i made my first Australian team, uh, in the world mountain,
00:24:44
Speaker
and trail running champs in 2023 and i tried to keep up the same volume i had done for the marathon whilst adding in elevation and yeah it was just it didn't work out for my body was tim still coaching you through to worlds yes yeah It is definitely the I'm sure as a coach now, just yourself, like you you see this, the people that transition from roads to trails and hit Hills and don't slow down going up them. And then also just try and like, it's, it's the issue of being distance based, not time-based because a hundred K on the road is very different to a hundred K on the trails with 3000 meters put in there. But yeah, if yeah, sometimes we have to learn ourselves the hard way. Uh,
00:25:30
Speaker
When going going through all this and and and definitely like thinking back to hearing your name for the first time, which was in 2023 at Two Bays, where I think you were second to Kate and being like, oh, who's this? like This is ah a brand new name. That's quite exciting. Is it just a roadrunner coming to Two Bays because it's like the hybrid or is this actually somebody that's going to move move into the the trail space? You then went really quickly from Two Bays, Warby,
00:25:56
Speaker
worlds like you got onto the world team off those two and it's basically five months from kind of going oh this looks fun to oh crap I'm on a worlds team yeah what was that process like for you like ah how are you feeling when you got selected for that worlds team um I was super like shocked I was like I wasn't it wasn't even on my radar like so after warby i was like I'll do Gold Coast marathon because i was still I'd only done one marathon and it went well so i was like oh I want to do another one Um, and then i had met Kate at two bays and we were training together a bit more because she had moved to Melbourne.
00:26:35
Speaker
Um, and she was like, why don't you try and apply for the world's team? Like, um, that would be pretty cool. And I was like, oh I don't think I'd be like, I don't think I'd be selected, but she was like, Oh, you might as well try. and then, um, yeah, I put my road marathon down as one of the races and then those two trial races and Yeah, got selected, um which was, yeah, amazing. Like I was super excited and went to train super hard, got a lot of advice from Coach Tim and, ah yeah, like Simone as well um helped a lot with the training program.
00:27:16
Speaker
um But, yeah, I think it was just like a little bit too much um for where I was at and, yeah, it was kind of inevitable that I got injured. But it's... but if Yeah, I don't know how I would, like it would have been interesting if I actually lined up in Austria because I definitely wasn't ready.
00:27:34
Speaker
i Like thinking now to what, like a 45k race with, I don't know, 3,500 metres of gain or whatever it was. Like I don't know how I would have actually made it through that race coming off like the little trail experience I had. I can't imagine myself getting through that.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah. well What was your training looking like in the build-up to it? you remember? ah I was also in the process of moving back to Perth. um Of course. So,
00:28:06
Speaker
it yeah, it was definitely more like road marathon kind of style um with, yeah, like cause a track session and then like a longer kind of tempo. um And then I'd just try and get out on the trails for my long run on the weekend.
00:28:23
Speaker
Yeah, but probably would have been a pretty rude shock going across and and racing there. But you did make it across and you did get to experience an element of the world's atmosphere. do you feel like having had that from 2023, it was beneficial as you went through like Asia Pacific and then to worlds last year? 24, sorry. 23.
00:28:45
Speaker
twenty three Yeah, I think it was cool to experience. Like it it definitely made um made me like super keen to put more eggs in the trail basket.
00:28:55
Speaker
um i was like, oh, this is epic. Like it was just massive. There was like all these amazing people and then like um Even though I couldn't run in Austria, like I still sort of hobbled around onto the trails and I was just like, this is epic. Like coming from Perth and even like Melbourne and Australia, like just the mountains, you don't really realize like how beautiful the mountains are in Europe until you're there.
00:29:20
Speaker
um and I was like, oh, i love this. Like I want more of this. um So I think it was, yeah, really good for like building that motivation and drive to like make the next team in two years.
00:29:33
Speaker
Was it kind of that point where you went, okay, I'm going to go all in on trail now? Yeah, I think so. I was like, this is made for me. Like i always loved, like I was starting to love the longer distances. um Like once I had moved into road, I was like, this is so much more fun than running around the track. And then I was like, trail is long distances and it's like,
00:29:56
Speaker
different terrain and there's like different things to look at and it's hard and you need to be strong I was like this is perfect for me yeah yeah it definitely uh well it's definitely seemed to suit you because you've gone kind of went from from strength to strength through the next couple of years end of 24 is when you had age specifics you had you you hadn't been signed by ASICS by then or was that beginning 25 24
00:30:25
Speaker
It was 24. 24. Okay. yeah so So yeah, you've had 23. It's gone really well, obviously outside of, of worlds being, being a bit overloaded, but then ASICS comes around the corner. Was that ever something that you expected to achieve by, by moving into trail running? and i know i have, I have heard you speak about Tim say that there are like potentially more opportunities for on the trails, but were you ever thinking that within a year you might have ah a brand behind you?
00:30:50
Speaker
ah No, definitely not. i wasn't It wasn't something that I was really chasing um or really thinking about, actually. I like i sort sort of had noticed that like you know Simone had a deal and then there was like Kelly, um like the Melbourne runners that I had met um that had sort of backing with a brand. I was like, oh, that's cool. like Maybe if I keep doing this, I might get like an opportunity as well.
00:31:15
Speaker
um but I hadn't reached out to anyone about it or anything. um And then i signed up for Buffalo 20K the start of 2024 and i was living in Perth at the time. So I had my cousin's wedding around like a week before. so I was like, oh, I'll travel over for that and it'll work really well. I'll go do the race. um And it was my it was going to be my first sort of race back.
00:31:45
Speaker
um since having my last stress fracture. um So i didn't yeah I didn't really get to race much in 2023. three like at the back end of 2023 because of that stressy. um Yes, and then i got to like a few days out from Buffalo.
00:32:08
Speaker
So, sorry, i was over in Perth, um signed up for Buffalo and then I got a call from Colin, fairy godmother, Colin.
00:32:21
Speaker
And he was like, oh, like, ASICS is sponsoring the event this year. It was the first time they were sponsoring Buffalo and they were looking for athletes to join their trail team.
00:32:34
Speaker
um And he was like, do you want to just put like a resume forward and send it to the ASICS team and see what they say. And I was like, definitely. um So I did that and they actually said no. um Yeah, they were like, sorry, um we don't have any opportunities at the moment. um And I was like, okay, fair enough. That's weird. And then, um i' yeah, I just didn't know where it had come from. I was sort of like, who is this Colin guy? And why is he looking out for me? um
00:33:06
Speaker
but I was like oh thanks like thanks to the opportunity anyway and then I traveled to Melbourne still like with the plan to compete at Buffalo oh and I did get to fit in Warby as well so I was literally the night before the race at Warby I was just sitting there and then I got uh this call from Assics and they were like oh actually like we changed our minds um we do have a deal fee and then they sent me through a contract.
00:33:38
Speaker
Wow. Have you ever had the conversation with anyone there? Be like, what got you to change your minds? No, but my guess is Colin just like put in his magic touch and...
00:33:51
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know why, but he was, yeah, I owe him a lot for um just backing me and, yeah, having belief. Because, like, at that point, I'd only done Buffalo and Warby, um the only trail races. So he had obviously seen something in those results, I think. And believed that I had potential. So, um yeah super grateful for that. um But, yeah, then I raced Warby and that was my last race as an unsponsored trail athlete.
00:34:27
Speaker
And then a few days out from Buffalo, I actually got a little shin niggle and didn't end up racing. So, yeah. But that wasn't a stress it response or anything. That was just a niggle. No, it was, yeah, just a niggle. I think it was because um like I'd done Warby and then I had my cousin's wedding the next day and it was dancing and late night. So, yeah.
00:34:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I can feel that one. Siobhan's got a running joke that I did my second stress for fracture last year because I was dancing at my best mate's wedding for too long. it's it's yeah It happens. It happens to the best of us. yeah when And I agree. um ah My guess is Colin was doing his things. And he is very good at talent identification. Like he sees stuff in people that he yeah yeah he he definitely likes to celebrate the athlete, which is it's good to have people like him in the sport.
00:35:23
Speaker
um But when you do sign, and I find this conversation really interesting with everyone that's that that we've had on that is sponsored, whether it's just sort of essentially a a shoe deal or whether it's people that are going on to international teams, as thinking of Charlie, Mikey, for example, and But signing that first deal must feel like a lot of different emotions, like excitement, three nerves. there's there's this Now there's this new pressure of a brand who's supporting you and you want to give it back to them. You know, there's going to be eyeballs on you because you now you're like one of the ASICS athletes. How did you find the first race that you did that was on like a bit of a bigger scale but when you were with ASICS?
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah, my first race went really well, actually. So that was Townsloe in 2024. And I think like I went into it with a pretty good headspace because I was like, oh, I don't have any expectation for this kind of distance. um I don't know how it's going to go.
00:36:22
Speaker
um And I was sort of just like really happy to be on the start line because of Buffalo. Like i I did have plans to race at UTA as well that year, but because of the shin, i had pulled out of that as well. um So I was sort of like just eager to get on a start line.
00:36:38
Speaker
um So yeah, Hounslow went really well. Like i um won that race and um i was really like I was able to get the most out of myself that day. like I have finished absolutely cooked, which such a good feeling. um Yeah, and even like the rest of that year went pretty well. like So and then I went to Asia Pacific Champs and did the short trail over there and came seventh.
00:37:05
Speaker
um It's funny looking back to it now because I remember being disappointed at that um because... Yeah, I think after Hounslow, an expectation did start to grow. um both like ah like probably initially coming from myself, but also like I had met a few people in Canberra that were in the trail scene and they were like, oh, you did so well, like you're going to like podium at Asia Pacific Champs. I like, what? Like, that's crazy. um But I had that kind of like in my ear.
00:37:39
Speaker
um And then, yeah, i I initially saw the seventh as like a bit of a disappointment, but now looking back at it, like I think it's pretty amazing. um especially because it was only like six weeks after Hounslow, I think.
00:37:52
Speaker
um Yeah, and then I finished off the year with COSY30, which was another one of like probably my best races that I put together. um It was, yeah just a good day. um i seemed to race really well in the heat. It was a hot day. um And, yeah, so finish of the year pretty well.
00:38:14
Speaker
The training you're doing in 24, because Hounslow was your first marathon, correct? Yes. Like first trail marathon, yeah. So you kind of learned the lessons through 23. had that initial build into trails, probably there yeah ah overdone it a bit, had to spend the rest time recovering, then coming in into 24.
00:38:32
Speaker
this you You'd moved back to Perth. You were with your coach back there. How how differently were you approaching the 2024 season? I think it was like I was pretty conservative. um I was finding life like a little bit different because in Melbourne I had like my little group to train with and everything was super social. I was always training with people. Um, But when I moved to Perth, it was like a lot more solo, which I hadn't done for like probably ever really because training had always been with a group. Like ah sessions were always with the group and like I wasn't used to that dynamic. um
00:39:11
Speaker
But because there wasn't many sort of other trail runners involved in Perth to train with um and also like I had some other commitments with like a run club and things like that I couldn't um fit in with like the group training that my coach was setting um so actually i i wasn't enjoying it to be honest like I was like this is really hard like it's so hard to motivate yourself when you're doing a solo session when you're not used to it, I think.
00:39:45
Speaker
um and And like, I think I was still like able to train really well, but I think I was putting, I started to grow this seed of like putting too much weight in two sessions and like getting really nervous. Yeah.
00:40:02
Speaker
yeah I noticed like my nerves definitely started to grow with that new sort of training structure. um I think because I, yeah, because it was solo, like I didn't have people around me to sort of take my mind off what I was doing. That's really interesting because as someone that trains solo quite a lot, and i and again, I see this is that the benefit of it is you can run your own pace, do your own session. And if you're having a good day, great, bad day, not so great. So I was actually thinking you were going to say the opposite, but for you, it yeah, it it didn't didn't play out like that.
00:40:36
Speaker
Maybe it was good in that way because like I haven't been injured since really, like I haven't had any major injuries. um can So maybe I was able to train a bit more within myself. um um But yeah, like I think enjoyment is such a big factor
Training Challenges and Anxiety Management
00:40:57
Speaker
for me. um So yeah, it's interesting. There's definitely like pros and cons to both approaches.
00:41:04
Speaker
were there any moments when you were over in Perth where you were sort of starting to lose the love again for the sport? Um, I think that sort of came a bit later, like more into 2025 for sure.
00:41:19
Speaker
right yeah. So, um, yeah, I think like after I had a good year in 2024, yeah, was kind of like,
00:41:32
Speaker
i was like really excited to be going and going to Worlds and to continue that form. um And like over in Canberra, like I do have, I have had like a few groups to jump in with, but um again, it was like a lot of solo sessions, um especially cause like i've I've got like, I had a structure that i thought was working for me, um which is kind of like the Tuesday, Friday,
00:42:03
Speaker
session split, which is not what, um, a lot of groups over here do. They're more like the Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. yeah Um, yeah. So then I think the more I was having to do solo sessions, the more I started to lose the love for it. Um, and yeah, I think just putting a lot of weight into the session, like, um,
00:42:33
Speaker
I think like my perspective on running shifted from this is really fun and social and like low pressure to if I don't hit the right splits in my sessions, like that's not, that means I'm not on track and that means I'm not going to do well.
00:42:52
Speaker
um So, yeah, and then I think that really started to show with my races in 2025.
00:43:01
Speaker
like Buffalo Marathon didn't go well for me. um And, yeah like UTA 50 was okay, but, again, like i didn't I didn't feel myself. Like I didn't feel the way I felt in 2024.
00:43:19
Speaker
um I think I had reached a point where I was, like, just cooked from, like, the pressure that I put on myself in training um and probably, like,
00:43:31
Speaker
sort of going back to back to back with racing and not really having like a proper break as well. Yeah, it's because you you did have ah quite a dense period. Like when we think back to Hounslow was September 2024 and then Age Pacifics is October, Cosby 30s December and then Buffalo Marathon is is ah March, UTA 50 is May, which was your first 50k, which to some people listening to this, they'll be like, oh, that's absolutely fine. But when you consider that Hounslow was your first marathon, you're only in trail for
00:44:03
Speaker
Yeah. A year and a half of which you spent half the year recovering from an injury. it is it's ah It's a lot going on, but it's also hard when we, as a sport, like that is a pretty common density of racing to see. Yeah.
00:44:17
Speaker
I think it was also um like moving to Canberra. There's a lot more opportunities for elevation over here, which, yeah, I got a little bit excited about. I was like, okay, I'm going to go to the big mountains every weekend in the lead up to Buffalo, like from two months out.
00:44:34
Speaker
And I think I've learned since being here that um it really takes it out of you, like doing those long climbs and long descents. And it's probably not something that i that my body or my energy levels can handle i doing week in and week out.
00:44:51
Speaker
yeah and it would still be even now very new to your body like i think ah something that the that i often think of it when road runners come across the trail or people want to take trail bit more seriously is that we enter races that have four or five thousand meters of gain but doing a one thousand meter descent and or climb both is really really hard like it never really gets much easier but it's it's taxing on the body Yeah, it is. it Yeah.
00:45:18
Speaker
I think, yeah, I think I was looking at people like, i don't know, Charlie and Mikey and going, oh, they go there like every weekend and like looking on Strava at what they were doing. And I was like, oh, cool. Like if I want to be as good as them, then I'm going to do the same thing. I'm going to go train out there and do like take the hard option. Yeah. um Yeah. And I think by the time I got to Buffalo, I was just a bit cooked. Yeah.
00:45:45
Speaker
And you had mentioned i was on the podcast and and in post as well throughout last year of that sort of race anxiety and and trying to manage all those, those pressures. Did you feel like that was being made worse by anything through 24, 25?
00:46:02
Speaker
Yes, I think um I definitely started to put more pressure on myself after getting um the sponsorship with ASICS.
00:46:13
Speaker
um Yeah, it's it's it's all built internally. Like it's not coming from the brand at all. um But there is definitely a part of me that goes – I need to do well to show that i deserve this um because there's a lot of runners that would really love to have what I have.
00:46:35
Speaker
um And then, yeah, like having a bad result at Buffalo was didn't help that. um And not that it was even bad, like it was fourth.
00:46:47
Speaker
um But in my head i was like i I have to podium to like show that i deserve what I have. um And yeah, i just, I didn't really reflect on like why I might've not felt great that day. um And i sort of let it, yeah.
00:47:09
Speaker
yeah And then, yeah, sort of, I tried a few things um in between that and UTA, but felt the felt the same level ah of anxiety or possibly even worse like at UTA and I was just like oh this is not good um and and yeah I sort of I decided to go on um an SSRI for anxiety after that which was kind of the rest of my 2025 and start of this year. um Sorry Jess just in case someone doesn't know what it means what's an SSRI?
00:47:47
Speaker
ah Sorry, it's an antidepressant. So ah the one, there's like a lot of different types, um but basically the one I was on, it creates serotonin in your gut.
00:48:02
Speaker
um So it, yeah, it boosts your serotonin levels artificially. Which you also then plagued through the back end of 2025 with gut issues.
00:48:15
Speaker
Yeah. Was that related? I think so because it was basically ah at the same time I started to notice like in training sessions um whenever my heart rate would get over a certain threshold, i would ah throw up. Mm-hmm.
00:48:35
Speaker
i um Yeah, so I did – I continued to try it because I was like, oh, maybe I'm just getting used to it. um But, yeah, it sort of just got worse and worse. And ah recently I decided to get off it um to see if it would help and it's been amazing. Like I feel yeah so much better and I've i've felt myself again um since coming off it. So, yeah.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think that was a um not the best decision. And I think I rushed into I sort of was frantically trying to fix the anxiety um a bit too fast. I think I wasn't patient enough.
00:49:18
Speaker
Do you think that inpatient was driven by, again, whether they're there or not, but like the perceived external pressures of you needing to perform or or was it more internal of like, I should be able to do this and and then that's just sort of feeding itself and you just have to get over it? Like- Yeah, think so. I think I was a bit desperate. I was like, oh no, I've had two races that I'm not happy with. um Two fourth places, which I, at the time I was like, I'm falling short of the mark. Like um my contract is coming up again at the end of the year. um so i was just desperate to try anything. Yeah.
00:49:57
Speaker
Looking back, And before we jumped on, I kind of said that I see you and your your journey through running is kind of three distinct stages of up to Melbourne and then sort of up to say Buffalo UTA this year, this year. So kind of, and then going, going forward.
00:50:11
Speaker
But when we look back to results that you had through 25 and experiences in 24, what stands out as being like the marquee, I don't like positive experiences from trail.
00:50:24
Speaker
Definitely like the community. um i really enjoy going to the races and just feel like and everyone's super supportive.
00:50:35
Speaker
um And just like the way it makes you feel like being out in on the trails is just so fun. And like I love now like whenever we go on like a road trip or like travelling,
00:50:50
Speaker
I'll open like the old Charles Apple like Strava and go and look for like different trials to run on. It's just part of my life now. Like I just love it. It's it's and interesting that when I said that you haven't said like a particular event, but it's more the experience of becoming a trail runner, not the trail events. is Is that, that kind of feels more like true to what you get out of it? Yeah, I think so. i think um I definitely have enjoyed the single track events or like the slightly smaller events.
00:51:21
Speaker
Trial race, trial events, um probably over the UTMB ones. um I think they just feel a bit more, um I don't know, close knit and like low key, which just suits my personality, I think.
00:51:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's pretty common. ah You might not be able to say this, but in in your contract, to yeah is there any like need to do certain events in Australia? There's just more incentive to do um events in Australia, yeah. Yeah, okay. And coming up to getting, like you re-signed at the start of the this year, was there any part of you that had considered not re-signing? Um, yeah, like actually my coach now, Kate, um, actually like said to me, like, if you're putting so much pressure in yourself to because of like expectations, you feel you need to meet with sponsorship, then why don't you just not do it?
00:52:26
Speaker
Um, and I think it was definitely something to like weigh up, but At the same time, I was like, I felt I was like learning strategies to get through it. so I was like, there's still like a lot of benefit and opportunity that this gives me. And I wasn't prepared to sort of give that up um because like at at the end of the day, it does help me to gain more experience because it helps me get overseas um financially. Like it makes it a lot easier to make those decisions. to go and race overseas and get that experience um so yeah yeah i feel like sometimes when we're asked those questions and you immediately like no i want to say like it's a good way it's a good way to know it's the right decision for you yeah twitter i think like i'm learning that um like it's okay to have these bad results like
00:53:24
Speaker
The brand doesn't go, all like she's had one bad result, so we're going to drop it. They understand athletes have ups and downs. um And yeah, it's helping me learn that like failure is okay. like it's It's not the end of the world. Yeah.
00:53:44
Speaker
You were working with, and and you may still be with a sports psychologist last year. That's correct? Yes. Yeah. so I've been yeah working with a psychologist for maybe like a year and a half. um And it it is a bit of a process because it's hard to find – um one that works really well for you but I think I've have finally done that um and I've been with uh my now sports psychologist for maybe like six months um and yeah she's been amazing so I'm feeling pretty confident that I can like
00:54:23
Speaker
yeah, learn sort of the strategies that she has taught me. um And I don't have to rely on medication, which, yeah, it's good because, yeah, like everything comes with trade-offs. um yeah There's nothing for free. So it's, yeah, it's been good. I think I've learned so much um through the last couple of years in like, um yeah, how to deal with anxiety and like,
00:54:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think it is definitely like getting better, which is, which is awesome. Yeah. And there's, if if the the trade-off to reducing anxiety is is throwing up constantly in races, it's probably not not not quite worth it. But to I think it it is fascinating because it's still a relatively new area um for people to to pursue sports psychology and accept like being like, cool, I don't have the like the equipment, the skills to be able to help myself right now. i'm I'm hitting a hurdle and then reaching out and asking for some help for someone.
00:55:24
Speaker
If you're happy to, like my personal experience is is like yourself, it's is's very hard to find the right person for you. Like there's so many people out there. um what What was it like going through the journey of trying to find the the person you've got now and and sort of, if there were any moments of you questioning, like, this is for me, it's not worth it.
00:55:43
Speaker
um but It's not worth. Sorry, like working with a sports psychologist, like I can't find the right fit. I'm just going to give it up. It's not worth that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:54
Speaker
I think, oh, I just think my personality, like, yeah, I don't know. My personality is like not to give up really. Like, I think I'll just keep trying, but it like financially, it's pretty tricky. Like it's very expensive.
00:56:06
Speaker
um So that's why it's taken so long. Like, I feel like it's taken me ages to finally get to a point where I feel like I'm actually getting somewhere with it because,
00:56:18
Speaker
um Like I can't afford to be doing a session every week. So and then you have to try um a practitioner for at least like three or four sessions before you know if they're going to work or not.
00:56:31
Speaker
So I think it's it's hard to explain, but it's just like a feeling that you get after the sessions. It's like talking to this person has made me feel lighter um and it's made me feel like I have a clear path forward.
00:56:50
Speaker
ah That was, yeah I think that's how I decided that I'd found someone that works for me. cool as no it's it's it's really good to hear and i think we're we're as people that are somewhat close obviously and and he he talking on the podcast a lot it can definitely feel like there's been a bit of ah a switch when we kind of now you you already mentioned you started with kate beginning of the year you've been building through uta was the most recent race How did you feel on the on the start line and kind of when you're looking back at at UTA, what has that given you to work with now moving forward to the rest of this year? um
00:57:28
Speaker
So I've really enjoyed working with Kate. Like it's been, i think one of my goals, so I sort of had to change coaches. i think I've already gotten through it on the podcast, but when I was looking for...
00:57:40
Speaker
a new coach at the end of last year, I was super keen to find a female coach um just because like I'd only had male coaches since my experience as a junior. um And I was like, oh, i just think it'd be really cool to like work with someone that I think has really good values and like understands um the things that females go through with training and like how we can feel good and bad and
00:58:10
Speaker
um things with our cycle and like I guess I'm getting kind of old-ish now so I need to start like whether I want a family and i was like oh like I've always respected Kate so much. um Yeah, just training with her like I felt like she had such a balance with um like doing things the right way with training but also like just having a good life balance like being able to switch off and like enjoy things outside of running and that was something that I really valued so I was like I yeah I want to work with Kate and um I think it's going super well like this is probably the first big block that we've done together that I'm in at the moment um so in the lead up to OCC and yeah I'm feeling really good like um I feel like I've got a lot of energy going into sessions and
00:59:06
Speaker
Um, I think it's helped me like, um, having confidence in like the training program because she has had a lot of experience with her own running. Um, and she understands like firsthand, um, like how to train for the races that I'm doing because she's done them herself. So yeah, I just have a lot of confidence in the training plan that she sets.
00:59:31
Speaker
That's really good to hear. what What kind of feel like the the biggest things that that she's changed over this first six months or so? um it's It's not super different. I think um it's probably a bit more, it's less like a marathon program for trail runners and more like a trail running program with a bit of speed. yeah um So like I'm doing a trail specific session every week and then it was sort of on like a fortnightly cycle. So um one week I'll do like a sort of threshold session that's flat and then I'll do like a long run session. So I'll do –
01:00:17
Speaker
Like I'll have like an elevation target, which, yeah, that's new to me. i haven't ever had elevation targets um for a session before. and And then like, yeah, sort of like a tempo in the middle of the long run. Yeah.
01:00:33
Speaker
Which is really cool. um I'm enjoying – I'm really enjoying, like, the trial-specific sessions because I feel like, for me, it's really good to switch my brain more into that kind of, like, RPE kind of mindset um because, yeah, as I was saying before, like – um training more on my own I was getting like putting too much weight on hitting certain splits in training and um yeah I think using more of an RPE and like I don't check my paces at all when I'm doing those sessions it's just like how I feel um it helps a lot to just like enjoy the session but also like tick it off and not put so much weight on it
01:01:16
Speaker
And it feels like you've previously said like your your job is a data scientist, but you don't really bring that across to your
Trail Running Philosophy and Future Goals
01:01:24
Speaker
running. The the running is sort of the the escape or the other side to that. You're not fixated on analyzing every step of your Strava graphs, et cetera. It feels like a very natural evolution for you just to be like, cool, I'm just going to do this by effort.
01:01:37
Speaker
which because the pace is completely irrelevant on an undulating or a hill or anything because it's yeah even if you're looking at the gap it's still wrong um the only thing you've got is how did that actually feel on that day which as we know is the only thing that's relevant when you're middle of a 40k trail race and trying to work out if you can hold this to the end yeah yeah i yeah it is kind of funny but i think um I think for me to do well in running, like I need, it needs to be like light and fun and not too serious. Um, that's just how I've noticed that I like, I've just noticed patterns in where, like, if I can do that, then that's when the results come for me. And, um, yeah, I dunno, I yeah can't really explain why.
01:02:23
Speaker
I then do like data science as a job, but it's I think it's it's because it's not like I'm not focusing on myself when I'm doing o the data science. Like it's it's like a focus, it's it's like an external focus. Like I'm looking at other athletes' data and it's still super interesting to me because like it does, it is like in my sort of passion wheelhouse where like I love um looking at like like things that other athletes can do in the gym and how that correlates to their performance and like what sort of trajectory they're on for the Olympics. like I find that so interesting.
01:03:05
Speaker
um But I think Like if I was to do that for myself, I would get too obsessive. ye um And that would take the enjoyment out of the sport for me. Where do you feel like you fall on the data analysis side as a coach? How heavy are you leaning into it?
01:03:24
Speaker
I think I'm more not so data heavy. I think with like the training that I set, it's definitely like, like there's a lot of thought that goes in and I use like a combination of my experience and what I've seen other coaches do um to work for different athletes.
01:03:48
Speaker
um But yeah, I don't really look at any graphs or data in that sort of way. um Yeah, so it's probably more closely related to how I approach running myself. Yeah.
01:04:04
Speaker
Yeah. I think it's, it's always interesting and that there's no, no right or wrong answer, but I feel like coaches just kind of know what the right thing is for their athletes and you, you, you know how they're going. So it sounds like that's definitely what you, what you've been able to lean into more with one, one thing that i did forget to ask earlier.
01:04:20
Speaker
which I was personally curious when the podcast started and it was Brodie and Sim to begin with, who have obviously extensive experience on the trail. Vlad came in, Vlad's been around since the 80s in the trails.
01:04:32
Speaker
And then we have yourself coming in, who'd only been like in trail running for not even a year at that point, or maybe maybe a year. how How did you feel like joint coming on to the podcast as a like a newer trail runner? And then once you got like, because that's like another layer of of pressure and attention that comes on to you.
01:04:52
Speaker
Yeah, at the time, I was like, pretty scared about it. I was like, I think I've just got this thing where I love kind of challenging myself. um And I remember being so anxious before doing recordings at the start, like really had to G myself up and like prepare myself.
01:05:10
Speaker
um But now it just comes a lot more easily. So I think i think that's why i I wanted to do it. Like I wanted to get better at this sort of thing, at like communicating. I've never been a strong public speaker. So I was like, oh, it's an opportunity for me to practice that.
01:05:27
Speaker
um and get a bit more confident and also like I've had a lot of experience as a runner like I've been doing it for a long time and I've been in a lot of different training environments and i was like I've got so much like knowledge to share and experience to share so I was like this is what I want to give back to the running community like that's that's why I want to get involved with this podcast Yeah, I think that the conversations like we're having today, I'm sure there will be ah lots of, and hopefully younger women listening that will be able to resonate and learn from your lessons. Because yeah, running is running. It doesn't matter where that, as something Tim Crosby is known for saying, it doesn't matter where the experience comes from. It all comes together and and creates like what we put into it and how we see see the sport as ah as a whole. um So no, it it was like,
01:06:18
Speaker
it was the same when I joined on. I was terrified for the first interview, but it was always brought in mind. Like it must've been quite intimidating coming into a, to like be in essentially a spotlight in a sport that you're still relatively new at. Um, but it's definitely worked out very well.
01:06:33
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I've loved it. And it's, yeah, it's helped me learn a lot. It's helped me connect with the community more. So I think it's, it's been awesome. Yeah.
01:06:44
Speaker
Looking forward from here, um what, What's your goals with trail running over the next three to five years? like You've re-signed with ASIC, you're obviously doubling down on the sport.
01:06:57
Speaker
What does Jess want to get out of trail? I think I just want to keep getting like new experiences and challenging myself. um I think like reflecting on what I did last year, like I actually grew so much and a lot of that came from racing at Worlds.
01:07:17
Speaker
where I came seventy ninth and it was just a crazy, crazy experience. But I feel like a much more confident trail runner this year. like So I just want to keep getting those experiences and, like um yeah, re-signed with ASICS to help me like um find it easier to like get overseas and um have a bit of support.
01:07:46
Speaker
um to be able to like get more experience in um like overseas races because yeah it is just like a whole another kettle of fish over there and I think what you learn over there like bringing it back to Australia just makes you um a lot more of a stronger runner so um I think that's definitely one of my goals um and yeah I guess like my other goal with running which it always sort of has been now that I'm a bit more of a veteran in the sport is just like continue to be a good role model um just continue to be like advocate for being like a healthy all-rounded runner um
01:08:31
Speaker
with yeah like develop like being able to have tough conversations around like mental health and like yeah things that you've gone through because like hopefully that helps someone um and hopefully it helps them learn how to get out of um similar situations It's something that's always struck me about yourself, Jess, is that you seem like someone who really wants to leave the sport in a better place and you came into it and your experience. And I think we we need we need a lot of people like that in all on all avenues that are having constant constant little touch points. So i do I do really appreciate your ability to be honest and and open about conversations that aren't easy. Like said, it's never easy talking about this stuff, even if it's just ah an empathy for the person that that that you were with.
01:09:19
Speaker
we've obviously got OCC coming up. Are there any other international races that you've got your eye on in the future? ah um, I actually would really like, like I would love to, um, try and make the world's team next year. yeah um but at the same time, not putting too much pressure on that. Like I think,
01:09:45
Speaker
There's a lot of other cool races that you can do. i think that's that's what's pretty cool about trail running. um Like you don't need to make a team to be able to like travel and have experiences overseas. So yeah.
01:09:59
Speaker
I would love to, so my brother's living in Canada at the moment um and I would love to get over to the US hopefully next year and do some races over there. um the Broken Arrow Sky Race looked pretty fun. So that was definitely one that I put on my bucket list.
01:10:17
Speaker
Yeah, that that whole week just looks sick or 10 days or whatever it is. It looks like a pretty epic experience. Now, I like that. That's very exciting. Do you do have any interest in in going longer are you like enjoying this distance? Obviously, there's a conversation at the moment about, yeah, all of this area. I'm i'm curious like what what your thoughts are. Yeah, I actually, I feel like I flip-flop a lot with that. um But I am slowly coming around. to it and I guess OCC is one step closer to that 100k distance being 60. I keep forgetting this. gone on How you feel when they announced that it was going to be a 60k? I was a bit like, oh, at least the elevation spread over longer distance. Fair enough.
01:11:04
Speaker
No, I'm starting to come around to it. I'm starting to get less scared about it and there there has, like as I mentioned before, there has always been that kind of overarching voice in the back or like little voice in the back of my head that's like, oh, you're not built for this longer stuff. And the longer it gets, um I'm like, oh, I'm not made for this. But like, I'm slowly turning that off and like getting interested in just trying new things and challenging myself, which is something that I love doing.
01:11:36
Speaker
Yeah. I think that's the the beauty of trail running is that we're all built for whatever we want to do with it. Like, yeah, it's, it's, it's a pretty epic sport in that perspective. Wonderful. Well, Jess, thank you for having the conversation with me. I'm i'm sure like, I think people will get a lot from some of the the topics that we've touched on. Um, is there anything else that we haven't, haven't spoken about today that you feel like we don't get the opportunity in the main shows to talk about?
01:12:00
Speaker
um You don't need to have an answer. yeah I don't think so. i think, yeah, I just, yeah, I hope people got something out of that. And, um yeah, I think the biggest thing that I've learned in the sport is that, like, just you've got to enjoy it to do well. Like, I don't know, like, don't let it get too heavy.
01:12:23
Speaker
um If you feel like training is getting too serious and you're not enjoying it, then change change things because, like, there's not one recipe to do well um like there's a lot of different ways that you can get the best out of yourself so yeah don't don't think that you can just you have to keep charging through if you're not enjoying it i think um having fun is a big part of success perfect think that's a great place to leave it jess thank you really appreciate the time it's been good a to have a chat thanks james