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Adventure, Mindset, and Preparing for OCC feat. Toby Sparkes | Episode 119
1 Playsin 16 hours
In this ep Sim is joined by Brodie (the day before he is due to become a dad!) and Toby Sparkes to talk through Toby's route into the sport, his journey so far, and how is preparing for OCC this year. Hear about Toby's adventures all over the world and how he combines them with training to get the most out of himself.
Then Brodie's update sparks a conversation around mindsets in the return from injury and how our relationship with the sport changes before sim details her peak training week before Europe that ended with a hitout at You Yangs half mara.
Results as usual with a massive weekend o races around Aus!
We hope you enjoy!
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Results:
- The Guzzler Ultra Trail Running Festival (QLD)
- Sri Chinmoy Canberra Trail Series: Aranda Meander (ACT)
- Boyne Valley 50 (QLD)
- Wildhorse at Night (QLD)
- You Yangs Trail Running Festival (VIC)
- Maher's Hill Trail Run RTRS 4 (VIC)
- Goldfields Pipeline Marathon (WA)
- North West Trail Running Series 1 (TAS)
***Don’t forget, use code PEAK at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Follow Sim: Instagram | Strava
Follow Brodie: Instagram | Strava
Follow Toby: Instagram | Strava
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcomes
00:00:00
Speaker
Music
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 119 the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Simone Brick and this week I'm joined by Brody Nankervis who must be a very nervous Brody at this point. How are we doing? Yeah, all right. Sort of just waiting, waiting, playing the waiting game.
00:00:26
Speaker
um So yeah, i've I finished work, I stopped working last week as well so it's sort of like I get to join in the nervous wait instead of sort of being distracted by work. So yeah.
00:00:37
Speaker
yeah What date's the actual due you date? Tomorrow, theoretically. So, yeah, it's sort of been like the last sort of week has been like anytime now. And then I think Laura's like, I would like this to be finished soon. So, i can butt yeah.
00:00:52
Speaker
So anytime now, essentially. Yeah, yeah. Exciting times, exciting times.
Toby Sparks: Trekking and Trail Running
00:00:57
Speaker
And we are also joined by over in, actually I didn't even ask where you are, maybe still Spain, but over in Europe at least, Toby Sparks. How we doing Toby and where are you? ah Yeah, that's a really good question Sim. I'm in Barcelona, so still in Spain very much. And yeah, thanks for having me on the pod. It's been a long time listening and I've finally crash landed here. I can't believe we haven't had you on yet. Are you kidding wow i just I tried to get him once, but he was he didn't reply to his messages. so yeah I think I was delayed by about half an hour, which meant that I missed my opportunity.
00:01:34
Speaker
Yeah, you've got to be quick, you've got to be right on to it. Anyone listening, if you ever approach, you've got to be right on to otherwise drop off. I was going to say, normally you don't though, normally you stick with it. I reckon with that one, I'd just message someone though, like I've waited a bit and then I'd just message them and then Toby messaged me back and I was like, that would happen, wouldn't it?
00:01:56
Speaker
Of course. Anyway, course he's made it. He's made it. Yes. You're here now. You're here now. and you've been, well, most recently you popped up on a random Instagram video that I was looking at as I was scrolling and then just went, oh, that's Toby. Where the hell is he? And your race on the weekend, which was fun to see. um But before that this year, I suppose...
00:02:18
Speaker
since we haven't introduced you properly to the podcast, you've been a name that's been mentioned many a time in many a preview and debate on different people's positions and then also racing Vlad very closely um a few times there. But yeah, I suppose then Toby, give us the give us the rundown of life at home when you are in Oz and when you got into running.
00:02:43
Speaker
Gee, that's quite the yeah introduction. i'm But ah yes, ah essentially, um I, like some of the other people that you've interviewed, work as a trekking guide predominantly at home. um so I'm used to sort of working, like you know, like long hours, lots of time on the feet ah throughout the summer. And then I just get this winter period where this year I've chosen to sort of train and race over here in Europe.
00:03:11
Speaker
um So, ah yeah, that's that's basically me in terms of, yeah, like working. But coming from a training and running stance, I guess like this is, it's hard to remember when I wasn't running. It's something that I was doing a lot as a kid in the form trail running. Not particularly, but definitely in the last couple of years, I've been wanting to test my potential and see how far I can take it. So um here we are. Yeah, it's just now that I've been ah looking more into you as you were getting me onto the pod because I know your recent years, ah but your first ITRA result actually isn't until 2023. Were you doing any trail running before then? ah Just small scale sort of locally.
00:03:56
Speaker
um i' done yeah like a like i did like a race at the Kanani Trail Series. And then, yeah, as ah as a kid, I was predominantly on the roads, I guess. I didn't have whole lot of structure so with that. It was basically just like going out and running three or four times a week as hard as I can and then yeah racing even harder whenever that sort of came around.
00:04:19
Speaker
um but yeah yeah that's like my slow little trickle into running i kind of liked it but you didn't really understand the yeah the sort of yeah backbone of training training that needs to go into some really strong results so Well, you must have launched straight from local trail races into your first three ITRA results are a second, a second, and a first, and they're all international. So you dove straight in. This is saying with Doi Inth and on Thailand by UTMB, where you came second in the 25K. Then not that, oh no, ah later the next year, you had two races in Ecuador.
00:04:56
Speaker
What were those ones about? Were that was just exploration or... Yeah, cool. This is this is forcing an elaboration. So um I like, yeah, okay. So, yeah, i wasn't racing too much locally.
00:05:11
Speaker
um I lived out on Christmas Island um out south of Jakarta for about a year. And this was like ah in my nomadic transit experience.
00:05:24
Speaker
seasonal working sort of ways it was the first job in a while where i'd had routine and structure and so it seemed like the perfect place to like actually you know have some stability in running and eating and sleeping and having you know uh yeah like a week to week sort of basis and Christmas Island is yeah only ah a small place that has one marathon on there. And I think i must have arrived there yeah earlier in the year and it was in August. And I think i was like the first person to sign up. And it was like the thing that I was set on for yeah for five months beforehand.
00:05:58
Speaker
Nice. um Yeah. And then so yeah i tested yeah i tested that out and then it ran a pretty – I was aiming for sub three. I got a fair bit under sub three um in a marathon that's like kind of a trail run and then high – yeah, high humidity and heat. And it was a pretty promising result and it had me like invigorated. And so once – well being on the island, I only had so many places to be able to race specifically. And so once I finished my um contract on Christmas Island, I ah then headed over to Thailand essentially for a bit of a holiday, but then that race at UCMB. And then there's obviously like it it was a I think it was the year before it was a major, but regardless, it was a pretty big year and my eyes had never really seen a race quite like it.
00:06:45
Speaker
um So once I got there, saw the hype around it, saw how many people were around and then placed second behind like a yeah a brooks a Brooks athlete, a really, really good American runner. um I started thinking to myself, i was like, oh, maybe I can, yeah. It kind of set a bit of a fire in my stomach, I suppose. um And then, yeah, I went back to to Tasmania for so so some kind of normal home life. that Tassie is where I'm from. And then i set out for ah like a bikepacking trip in in South America. So I started in Chile way up to North Peru over about six months.
Cycling Adventures and Racing Plans
00:07:25
Speaker
And ah yeah, funnily enough, I was kind of, ah yeah, this pod existed then and I was listening to it pre-downloaded whenever I was in a town in reception and then listened to the podcast when I was cycling away for a day. And like, um yeah, listening to you guys sort of speak about the Australian scene and and maybe me as a very beginner, novice runner, having some insight into the intricacies of trail running i think like it was yeah like a combination of cycling by myself and then listening to peak pursuits um that then really like was yeah really made me sort of carve out a month-long trip a month-long sort of span in my south america trip to train in peru and then to race i ran i ran three races in ecuador
00:08:14
Speaker
um in a questionable amount of spacing. was going to say there must have been close. I think there was three races in like in four weeks or something. And I really, i didn't know it at the time, but the last one I was like really fatigued.
00:08:30
Speaker
And, yeah, in re in retrospect, I can see that that wasn't a smart smart move, particularly at all high altitude as well, you know, like I was pretty. you know, sleeping just below 3000, training above 3000. And like the that that has on your body, I never really fully um yeah yeah understood until, you know, now I'm learning a bit more and have a greater understanding. So, um yeah yeah, it's a bit of an obscure way to get in, but I guess it was just sort of, yeah um yeah, it was kind of just stitching trail running into what was my already existing sort of nomadic lifestyle in a way. yes Yeah, nice. Yeah, because, well, you still, you hit the ground running after that trip because it was only a month after the last race in Ecuador, you ran triple tops, but you must have been exhausted for that one.
00:09:20
Speaker
ah And then we finally get a few of the Aussie results coming up um from 2025 now. So that was late 2024 was Ecuador and then triple tops and then 2025 was the year of 50Ks for you, it would seem, going from Gone Nuts to Kunanyi Marathon to Five Peaks to UTA 50, which is a lot of 50Ks before May. um And you were, what was it, second in all of them by UTA 50.
00:09:49
Speaker
um So from this whole 2025 period, then going Italy and back to Thailand, what was your sort of approach to running throughout the 2025 year?
00:10:01
Speaker
yeah Yeah, so I guess my approach was like um let's start working with people that know more than me and give myself the best chance of like ah to beginning to understand my potential in the sport. So ah yeah, I guess it was just like proper periodization and training and stimulus that would would help me for the races that I had there. um Yeah, in combination with like understanding nutrition was probably a huge ah huge one for me.
00:10:33
Speaker
I feel like it's it's constant work for nutrition. Like you what one thing can work and then and suddenly it's different. But like prior to that, I was kind of just heading out with like a packet or two of gummy bears and then just like – My first 50K was at Gone Nuts in a um in a relay for two and I just ate gummy bears the whole time, you know. And so there was a lot of, it was really clear that when I started, you know, I had a bit of a chat with my now coach, Millie Young, um that that was a very low-lying fruit that could be worked on. Yeah. Yeah. But the yeah but the yeah, the mindset was just basically, let's yeah let's start putting all those sort of foundational things in place to give myself the best chance of putting out results and and gauging where that is. So that was pretty much 2025 in a nutshell, like a head to the most competitive races in Oz, see where I stack up against my fellow Australians and and sort of go from there. Yeah, nice, nice. you were It looks like you were in Italy in August though. Was that just a a holiday or was that a trip for that race or trail to the Sardone?
00:11:43
Speaker
Yeah, it was so i'd I'd set out to do a bikepacking trip after the running season. I felt like it was a good idea to maybe get off the legs for a month or two. And I set out to cycle um from sort of like Western Turkey up to the north of the Balkans. So Croatia was sort of the mark.
00:12:03
Speaker
And yeah. Yeah, that's that's something that I i kind of did, ah but then got a job along the way working for a long distance cycling guiding company over here in Europe.
00:12:15
Speaker
And so they set me out on a scouting trip around the same time as what that Italian race was. And so it was me scouting bikepacking or cycling routes for this company and in turn then yeah tapping back into running. I just kind of synced up the two at the same time. Yeah, nice.
00:12:36
Speaker
Yeah, because I – yeah, I don't – I running's my thing you know I really like bike riding but I find once I'm cycling I'm just itching to like get on my feet and that's that was kind a product of that so there's no real training going into that Italian race it was just to get that sort of taste of yeah of competing and like and and long distance running I guess in a way that cycling doesn't give to me.
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice. And then finishing off the year at the Chiang Mai, the Thailand 50K again, was that, oh, you already would have had your OCC spot for this year from UTA, yes? Yeah, correct, yeah.
00:13:17
Speaker
So was that just, again, another race to tick off the tip um end of the season? i ah Yeah, pretty i pretty much. i I had some really pleasant memories of that event in in Thailand.
00:13:32
Speaker
from when I was, you know, when I first did the 20k and came second. And I think like my ego saw that I was, yeah yeah, I was listening to the pod last week, Brody, and it that conversation with Lincoln about prize money and and what it, you know, what that sort of entails for the top end and the mentality around it. And I guess I saw Chiang Mai as like, oh, top five pays, um,
00:13:56
Speaker
I could probably get that and i'll probably pay for my trip. And yeah, I found out that that wasn't the case once I worked out who was there. um but and nonetheless, like it gave me an opportunity to race against some world-class trail athletes. Like I think, yeah, Hayden Hawks was on there. And then the, yeah, Rui, yeah what's his last name? Yueta. Yeah.
00:14:19
Speaker
yeah Yeah, him and then a couple of really strong Chinese runners and in the European field. And so, ah yeah, whether I knew it at the time or not, that experience gave me, um yeah, a bit of context of the, you know, of the sort of world scale trail running and where I might fit into that. and My race didn't go as according, so i I think I could have done it quicker. But it was a brilliant learning step regardless. Yeah. Yeah, on dealing with the humidity of Thailand and those trails. Yeah. Yeah. mean
00:14:52
Speaker
Yeah. And I think like Cozzy kind of fell on that same weekend or very, very close to. And yeah, Cozzy's like definitely a race that I'm going to do in the next couple of years. But it just felt like i think in one part, yeah it's gauging my potential. and And two, it's like working out how I can develop myself as an athlete. And so yeah i saw Thailand as like as that sort of opportunity, you know, opportunity to you know, race overseas and then to also, yeah get a field that was, yeah, that really competitive as well.
00:15:27
Speaker
yeah Yeah, nice. And then that gets us to this year and slowly leading up to where you're at now with ah so far at this year, we've seen you at Buffalo 20K, a brilliant win at Diverge, ah the 26K Skyrun there, and then another fourth at UTA 50 in an incredibly good field.
Racing Experiences and Tactics
00:15:45
Speaker
So now this year,
00:15:49
Speaker
When you started the year, like was OCC, which is coming up now and in Europe, was that kind of the overall aim of the year or did you have other ideas of what you wanted to do um in the lead up? Yeah, I think OCC had to be like the the AAA race of the season when I was kind of looking at my calendar. Yeah.
00:16:10
Speaker
for so many reasons yeah maybe reasons i don't have to explain i mean um yeah it's an opportunity that doesn't come around all the time and there was you know no guarantee that i was going to get a top 10 finish this year at uta again and so it just felt like yeah an opportunity to take um and to then yep to focus on and to build up to leading up to it and so ah yeah, that that was sort of the main focus with then also, yeah, coming to some of Australia's most competitive races and then um some build like the the race in the Pyrenees was a bit of a build up and a bigger stimulus before OCC at the end of next month for sure. Yeah. So that's the one you just did over the weekend. Yeah. Yeah. yeah um Tell us about it. what What was it and how did it go?
00:16:57
Speaker
ah Yes, so it was Marathon Las Tucaz in, ah oh, and my pan pronunciation of this, Neto Pocets. ah it's It's in a small little town in the Pyrenees in Spain um called Banasqui.
00:17:11
Speaker
And, yeah, it's like ah it's a full, honestly, it's like a full Spanish race. I was looking at the results from previous years, but then also this year. And I think in my race, there must have been over 1,200 participants in that race. race And maybe that I could spot like eight.
00:17:27
Speaker
different How did you find it? ah so um From a race perspective. perspective Yeah, yeah. Like as in, no, no, no. As in how did you find this particular race to go do this particular one? ah Honestly, Piotr Babas hit me up. He's like, how about we go over to Spain and do this race? And I looked at was like, oh, great. yeah Like my time here in Europe is like, yes, race focus, but I also want to, you know, have some memorable experiences with people that I, with friends and whatnot. And I was like, yeah, that that that sounds sounds great. And then he acquired other work and then left me with us. Went to like the old Spanish race by myself, which is like, which is kind of novel. I felt like i was the exotic Australian, you know, coming from the south. But yeah, it's like, there's not there's not much English there. So it was very much a, yeah. um a
00:18:21
Speaker
not a lonely experience by all means because you're engaging with so many people but yeah i did feel like the outsider in some ways slightly not to say that the event wasn't friendly it was just the pure purely from a language stance yeah no hablas espanol that's the i blowbargos right now Muy bien. What were you going to say? I was just saying how it was a pretty big race in Spain, it looked like, with the given that it live stream. So it had to be at least some level of ah a big type of race if if they're going to pop on a live stream.
00:18:59
Speaker
Totally, yeah. in there um From my understanding, it's like in their top three races in terms of, yeah, popularity within Spain. So, it's ah yeah, it's ah it's a pretty big one for them. and it And it feels like it, you know. Maybe I'm still gauging the scene over here in Europe, but, like, yeah, it definitely takes over the town for sure.
00:19:20
Speaker
I love races that take over town. They look cool. Yeah. Oh, it's it's beautiful. I mean, like... i think yeah it could raise yeah i mean you could raise all sorts of questions about taking over a town but like on the on the ground like looking there's just like so many locals it feels like locals getting around it and i say that because you know you've got these like big sort of medieval walls and the race is going through and you've got people looking out the window and you've got little you know old ladies and old men sitting on the street smiling and yapping and like
00:19:52
Speaker
It's um yeah, it feels like it's embraced by the local community from from my lens anyway. i think when it's not like a mega event, then it's it's beneficial to the community. I guess we're going to talk about that in a little bit later. Yeah, but I didn't want to say too much. but The same sort of thing happens at Kima, which Sim is going to do later in the summer. And like that, that is quite a small town or quite a small little valley. and Although there's not like heaps of participants, I think it's like 400 or 300. They all bring an entourage and therefore the sort of the town does sort of get taken over to some extent. But again, I feel like it's sort of it's small enough that it's sort of embraced by the community. And there's lots of people out there sort of just getting amongst it and enjoying it for the the one day every two years that it happens.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah, and I think part of it is that um a lot of these places in Europe, they are mountain towns. So realistically, like they get around the fact that you're – Well, no, but that you're you're using the mountains. You're in the mountains. you're Yeah, yeah. It's almost as like they're um celebrating as much the running as the fact that there's people coming and seeing their mountains and exploring the mountains and like – I don't know. it's like it's it's a It's like that cultural thing as much as anything. um I guess they would also be somewhat set up to have influxes of people at various times, whether that's summer or winter, because of like the touristic purpose. So they are somewhat yeah expecting that anyway, but yeah. It's it's cool when it's um maybe not too big. The terrain, Toby, looked pretty intense once you got up in the sort of high alpine. I was like watching some of the Instagram um sort of stories of the leaders, which you were one of them at one point. Not not not when it got up to the technical spot, but you were earlier in the race. um It looked quite tough running. Like it was very uneven and lots of sort of pretty slow going.
00:21:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for indicating that maybe I started a little bit too quick there, Brody. I was just saying you were in the lead pack at one point. Yeah. To do it some justice, however, I don't know if you clocked into the stream, but it was pretty funny. they did um It's the first time that I've ever had them like sort of interview me and do those like a short little video um snippets of you like looking one way and then turning and like looking very... How fun are those? They are so awkward.
00:22:16
Speaker
i've I've never done that. And so for my family that was watching at home, to see up front for about an hour, but to see me on Spanish TV sort of turning around, giving a you know a very serious gaze into the lens is, um yeah, I mean, that's worth that's worth blowing up for, I reckon. 100%. 100%. Get that TV time. But in all seriousness, how did the race go and sort of did you tick the goals you wanted to tick in terms of a race, pre-race OVP preparation?
00:22:47
Speaker
Yeah, totally. I guess i guess the goals going into it was one, don't get hurt. Two was to ah was to finish. And then the third was sort of to have um to have fun, really. And so, i yeah, I quickly realized after going after starting out too quick um that I've I hadn't placed myself in any position to be competitive. Um, I feel like there's so much, uh, at least unless you're a generational runner, I feel like there's a lot of preempted sort of tactics and, build up to being able to be competitive at a race, particularly a race like that, you know? And so, um i think once I'd blown up and got sort of overtaken, I really took the pedal of the gas and, and, uh, Yeah, it started really just enjoying it because there's beautiful scenery up there. um And yeah, it really started to get technical. I think um it had similarities to like Kananyi. So that yeah, the mountain in in Hobart on top.
00:23:47
Speaker
um But it just went on for a lot longer and the you know the climb sort of up was was many hours essentially. And then i think the altitude is actually a factor, yeah. yeah.
00:24:00
Speaker
yeah oh yeah Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah like there's some naive part of me that's like, oh, well, you cycled in South America above 3,000 metres for many months on end. You're all right. But that's not how altitude works. And I think, yeah, towards that top end it really started to hurt. um from a yeah, from like a like wanting to push sort of perspective. So yeah, I think I think yeah I think that's I think ah the altitude thing is is definitely under recognized and for something like UTMB, which you're going to tackle later in the year, it's less of a big deal. But I feel like once you go over too much like that over two and a half thousand or spend more time up around that, it becomes really difficult, especially when you're pushing it intensity. um So it's yeah, it's it's no joke for sure.
00:24:46
Speaker
Yeah, and just that like subtle sort of, um subtle headache, I guess, that kind of, yeah, that kind of just like hums in the background. and just kind of feel shit. Yeah, you feel shit. You feel you feel heavy is like, yeah, is a really great way to put it. um So, yeah, I guess like, Yeah, I wanted to have a European racing experience.
00:25:07
Speaker
I got that. I got to see, um yeah, like how can, I mean, coming from Australia and hearing of people running, yeah, like in the Pyrenees or whether it's in the Alps over here. And yeah, in Europe, you hear about the, you know, the 40-year-olds overtake you on the climbs and I felt it And I think that was amazing. Which is just like awesome to be around. you know You've got like a population that's probably been doing this sport from a really young age and it's just so natural to them. So yeah, to get a gauge of yeah Europe running was it was a big part of it and i feel like I got that from the experience.
00:25:44
Speaker
Yeah, nice. Very, very nice. Well, now we're only a month away from OCC. um So also maybe a month and a bit, but what are the plans between now and OCC and how are you feeling for it?
00:25:59
Speaker
um Yeah, so the yeah the plans are sort of to get into the Alps into the next couple of weeks. I'm doing kind of a fast packing running mission in Bavaria before heading there with a friend. Yeah, but then from sort of early August through to OCC, it's um yeah just getting familiar with the environment, scouting the...
00:26:20
Speaker
yeah, scouting the route, you know, i'm saying seeing what it is that I'm well conceptualizing what it is that I'm actually going to be able to do, I think makes a huge difference. um And to, yeah, just do all those fundamental things that make a huge difference to racing to the best of your ability. So yeah, eating really well, getting undisrupted sleep. And yeah, and then following my sort of training program. um So I can be in the best form for when the race comes around.
00:26:51
Speaker
Yeah, perfect. And on that training program, you have said that your coach is Millie Young. Now she's going to know the terrain around that area and the whole area quite well at this point, having spent a lot of time there. hope so. You'd hope so, you'd think so. She might have been sleep deprived through a lot of it when she was out there. She's done PTL twice now, yeah? Yeah.
00:27:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah so what, what does that, your sort of training approach then look like? Uh, cause like you've already obviously said how you like the bike packing, you're going on a fast packing trip. Like there's a lot of adventure in what you do. How does then training look around that and how does it, how's like a week in some way structured? It's um yeah i mean like you know in a normal week to week it's sort of like monday's monday's rest day um and then the yeah the six days after that is a composition of sort of yeah two uh lower intensity sort of aerobic runs um yeah at least one long run depending on what's going on and then sort of two sessions of whatever stimulus we're kind of chasing so um over the last couple of years it's but yeah it's become super obvious that my
00:28:06
Speaker
the The work that I need to do needs to go into the hills. um So this whole block and going into OCC has been a lot of muscular endurance sort of work and then up-tempo hill sort of efforts ah to sort of get me ready for that as much as possible. um Yeah, this is basically a broad overview of it. Yeah, nice. And in your general training, is there then much cross training that you do do or is it mostly just running? um Yeah, I mean, yeah, when I'm guiding, there's hiking with a, you know, a 20 kilo backpack for six days straight or whatever. um
00:28:39
Speaker
And then, yeah I mean, I'll i'll hit the weights with... Because I've had an injury, like I was having sort of calf issues and then post UTA I had a little bit of ah a foot issue that went on for a couple of weeks. We've sort of integrated the cycling um into that ah just to sort of, you know, lessen the stress and the load, lessen the stress body and in the body. Yeah.
00:29:04
Speaker
and so yeah that's something that we're saying but because now i'm here in europe and i'm not carrying a ah bike around with me um it's yeah not not heaps of cross training at the moment it's mainly just getting time on the legs and sort of volume and building up into yeah what will be probably my biggest race yet i'd say yeah Yeah, yep.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah, well, the volume and the time rack up pretty quickly once you're in Europe, I always find. um saying that And the elevation is... Yeah, yeah, it's loud. Well, last question from me before I'll throw it to if Brodie's got any or the ah we've got a couple of listener questions, um but what does a good day or good result at OCC look like to you? Oh,
00:29:48
Speaker
Now you're asking the big questions. That's a hard-hitting question. Yeah, what does what does that look like? Podcast exclusive. Yeah, a little teaser perhaps.
00:29:59
Speaker
um I think, yeah, fore and foremost, it always has to be finishing, particularly with like race that is as regal as what OCC is, you know. It's like a milestone sort of race for for many people. So I think honouring that is definitely important. And then I think ah think secondly, i I just want to – I mean, you can think about – yeah you know, positions and timings.
00:30:24
Speaker
I think for me, it's hard to gauge a position, you know, like I haven't haven't seen the people. You know, there's plenty of people that I don't know over here and and around the world.
00:30:35
Speaker
um But I think... purely just off a feel like I want to finish that line, um, with a big smile on my face. And when I finish a race with a big smile on my face, it means that I've, um, paced it correctly and performed, uh, in a way that I know that I can. And so yeah think it's like, yeah, particularly like UTA and, and now, um, this race in Spain, they've been both been points within those races where I feel like I haven't paced it right and blown up at the wrong time. Um, so I think, yeah, going to OCC, knowing that it's 60 kilometers, it's a bit longer. Uh, that's honestly, it's probably the main thing. Um, cause you were with Blake at UTA, weren't you?
00:31:19
Speaker
Yeah. And then you went off and he stayed back. Yeah. And I think like, yeah, I think. I went off and he stayed back. I went off because I think ah from experience the year before, I knew that that's where I made the difference on um Vlad. Yeah. And I know that downhill running in some sense is my ah is my strength.
00:31:38
Speaker
I think I'm still gauging like the toll that a downhill, like ah a push downhill effort in a race that long can have later in in the race. I'm still learning that.
00:31:50
Speaker
um But, yeah, I think that – ah Like that just comes to mind because Blake, I think Blake would be probably our top performer at OCC for the Aussie men for the last little while. And so in my head, I'm like, think like Blake when it comes to pacing because he was coming through and taking souls at the end, as you know, he's always going to. think him and Tate very similar. But, yeah, I think Tate actually had similar because I think he didn't feel so good in the first half and then he had a bit of last. They both came through. came through, yeah, I think so. Yeah, nice. Yeah.
00:32:24
Speaker
And, yeah, that's a really good point because, yeah, doing UTA with Blake and running, you know, getting to gauge him as a runner, it was – yeah, he's just wiser than me. Oh, he's very wise. You know, like he's had many more years and, yeah, an understanding of his capabilities that, like – edged me out on that particular day and so um ah the thing i love about racing and like but particularly racing with people and getting to to spectate right there is that like almost every race that you reeled off earlier in that this episode like i can i can take away a lesson um from each of those from people that i've run with you know like yeah and so yeah i think uh
00:33:10
Speaker
yeah i think uh i would take that into a occ for sure yeah nice love it i'm so excited for this one brodie you got any questions to fire at toby yeah a couple um just to just you saying before you're doing some muscular endurance training what does that what does that look like for you what are you doing if you're allowed to share the secrets yeah mean i mean i can share i think like Yeah, okay, yeah, more so more specifically, um it's been a lot of Stairmaster with a backpack on, with weights weights in it, to be honest. That's ah yeah been ah that's been most of the muscular endurance work. um on top of the sort of hiking that i already do already i think in a sense that also contributes getting a bit of that already yeah what um what how do you fit that into your week like do you do that after a running session after a gym session how long are you doing it for what sort of stuff um yeah usually it's on its own its own little session um and so yeah there'll be a workup uh like a
00:34:16
Speaker
warm up and then into the stair master and then uh yeah i'll just do maybe it's been growing as the weeks have been going on but i've been doing sort of um yeah like 10 to 15 minutes sort of intervals by by four or so um on the stair master which has just been the sweatiest thing ever oh yeah like yeah yeah it's hard work in there um But, yeah, that's that's sort of been how yeah been been the sessions really.
00:34:47
Speaker
Nice. cool And I guess you have haven't been doing it for super long, so hard to know and and you've only done the sort of one race over here. But do you feel like have you noticed any difference in other parts of your training or just in general?
00:35:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah' yeah it's ah that's a question that I've been asking myself. It's like, where is the like benchmark and how can I gauge where I'm seeing improvement? um I think from a feeling perspective, like when I got sort of three of these sessions in and we running some of the hills at home, i was feeling as though I was more efficient and like it was just less hard, if that makes sense.
00:35:24
Speaker
Um, but I definitely, before running in Spain, I spent a bit over a week in Andorra and I, I think it's just like a difference in gradient. Like there was so much more.
00:35:35
Speaker
Yeah. It didn't feel like I'd necessarily was all that much of more efficient. Um, uh, and through the race, I didn't really feel like, yeah, I felt quite heavy. So uh, I, I, I trust the process. Um, I, yeah, I think that I'm getting a better climber, but, um,
00:35:53
Speaker
Yeah. Andorra is different. Yeah. and Like Europe's different, but then Andorra is like particularly steep, you know, like it's not really. My first race, my first race ever in Europe was ah uphill world champs in Andorra. And that was the, possibly the worst thing to have as your first experience of Europe when you're like at 2,500 meters up some of those climbs in Andorra. Yeah. So Andorra is different. Yeah.
00:36:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's pretty weird. And I think it's hard to it's hard to know like like you probably would have felt a whole lot worse if you hadn't. Potentially would have felt worse if you hadn't done the muscular endurance training. It's hard to know. I think most Australians when they go over to Europe and they're running yes somewhere in the mountains, they're noticing a difference in how hard it is.
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah. And I think like there's so there's a couple of different variables that sort of add to that, right? Like we've talked about altitude, but then like I've come from a Tasmanian winter into a Spanish summer, you know, it's like 30 degrees as well, you know, like throughout the day. And so the heat no undoubtedly is also contributing to that.
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, there's lots to it. got one more question for you, Toby. I think, i reckon you, we first chatted when you were living on Christmas Island and that was many years ago. And I guess when you were first talking to me then, that was quite a long time i actually forgot about you for a little bit and then when you started doing results again I was like oh that's Toby that's the guy that talked to me a few years ago like what made you want to start doing trail running because I know some people like they've done they've done running sports their whole life and that sort of stuff what what was the thing that you went I want to do trail running and I want to sort of take it to the top level
00:37:36
Speaker
um Yeah, it's ah it's a really good question and I'm glad that you remember that little message that I sent you, Brodie, because it was full of heart and soul. um what is how you can know it you can tell it I think you could tell at that point you were you were already motivated to get the best out of yourself and that was a few years ago.
Cultural Differences in Racing
00:37:57
Speaker
It's cool to see you still doing it and actually living it now as well. Yeah, it's true. It's a thought that I yeah that i had that um you know coming onto the show. and yeah was I was thinking about that message that I had sent you and sort of yeah reaching out for advice and how it is that I can do this. And now I'm kind of i'm kind of there living that sort of, yeah, what it what it was that i yeah sort of living what it was that I was dreaming, I guess, back then. um So, yeah, I assume you kind of touched on adventures sort of being intertwined into my athletic existence. And, yeah, I guess that's purely where it came from. um
00:38:37
Speaker
ah Yeah, started it was when I started guiding, I started merging with people who were running ultras. Um, like there was a couple of people that worked there who told me that they had run a hundred kilometers and before I'd never even heard of being able to run that distance and like conceptualizing it then, I was like, that is just the craziest thing. And something intrigued, intrigued me about that. And, you know, the more that I sort of worked and, and, uh, and, sort of rubbed up against adventurous people, you know, i remember one lady sort of telling me, she's like, oh, well, trail running's just like, slightly quicker than a walk or like the hike that we're doing right now. I'm like, oh, man, that's so true. And so ah think, um yeah, like many, i think that, yeah, Billy Curtis is one and listening to Lincoln the other day, they all mentioned that suddenly in Tasmania, you've got these multi-day walks that can be done within half a day or within a day, you know? And so, yeah, living in Tasmania, I guess that adventure sort of aspect sort of nudged me into trail running, I guess.
00:39:43
Speaker
Um, but then it's just like, i guess it just comes from, uh, uh, yeah. And then like, I guess then the competitive side, um, stems from an understanding that I've had some natural ability since i was young.
00:39:58
Speaker
Like I was i in high school, you know, I was i was running at the you know within schools, high school and like into sports and stuff. I was winning or setting records or whatnot. And I think there was just like a Sutton Lane dormant there that I knew that that is like one of the things that um' that I've been gifted with. and so know liking the outdoors liking a adventure and then knowing that i have natural ability and also being kind of competitive with things that i care about it just made yeah sense to move into trail it just seemed like it allows an exploration that maybe road running doesn't in the same way and i think
00:40:36
Speaker
an aspect of that really appealed to me. you know like you can Yes, maybe I didn't run to the best of my ability in the Pyrenees, but God, did I get to see an amazingly beautiful place and have this yeah yes this cultural experience. And like um and i think, yeah, despite the competitive and results side of things, this reward far, far beyond that really appealed to me. Yeah, yeah ask the Sub 3 Christmas Island Marathon woke you up. Woke it up. There you Brady.
00:41:06
Speaker
He ran the Sub 3 and went, I can do this. There you go, yeah. Well, that definitely resonates with me, like that feeling of adventure, but also like you've obviously got that competitive side to you and who wants to sort of push yourself to the – to the highest level and like you said like you can have a bad day in a trial race and still have a good time i don't know how many people are having a bad day in a road marathon and still loving it compared to you up in the mountains yeah no not many yeah it's a complete contra
00:41:37
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Awesome. Awesome. Well, finishing us off with we've got one listener question for you now and we've got a couple more that we're going to cover at the end of the show for our Patreons. um But for this one, Brodie I.B. has asked. I think it's Ian Best, I believe. always I was going to say, I keep forgetting that. It's Ian Best. Indisguised as his acronym. I know. um You've raced in Australia, Asia, South America and Europe.
00:42:06
Speaker
Have you experienced any interesting differences racing on four different continents? ah Yeah, I mean, that's a good that's a good question. ah i i feel like like even within, you know, and we see it within Australia as well, like races all have their own sort of flavour and it comes with you know, participation rates and then also, you know, where it is. Like in in Asia, I guess I've run in Thailand at UTMB, Chiang Mai. It's like a huge event. It's like one of the biggest in Asia. so
00:42:38
Speaker
it feels consumeristic and it feels like there's a lot of ah people sort of recording the moment, I guess, which is, yeah, beautiful in its own own regard.
00:42:51
Speaker
Um, and then, yeah I saw, I guess like if i then go to a place like Ecuador, where it's like a lower participation rate and like the aid stations are like Utes with Coke out the back and like some lollies and, and like pretty bare bones. They've got different, yeah, different feels to them. um I think, yeah, like all those things that just come with different countries, it's within the food, it's within the cuisine.
00:43:21
Speaker
um And then depending on the race, I feel like the the history that's sort of behind it, um the The one here just in in Spain felt like it was a bit, I don't know how old it was, but it felt like an event that had been around for for some time, and just in the way that it was sort of embraced, I guess.
00:43:43
Speaker
But yeah, I don't think there's like... because if you went to every big scale sort of event in each continent, they would in some ways feel similar, I think.
00:43:54
Speaker
But yeah you have the yeah the cultural sort of twang that would be a little bit different. And yeah, in the food and the language and and the whatnot. Yeah, i think that you're right in that the big scale events everywhere have similar similarities and the small scale events everywhere have their similarities. Um, but then there's just those key cultural differences. One of my favorite ones to like, especially when you're not racing all out and you're just there for the adventure, but one of my favorite things to note is going into the aid stations and seeing what exactly they have at aid stations and whether it's salami and cheese Or it's some traditional soup that you can get or like the things that are that each, and this isn't even just a continental thing. It's like different countries in Europe will also have different things at their aid stations. Different countries in South America will have different things. And um yeah, that's one of my favorite things to take note of is just people are running on cheese. Really? Yeah.
00:44:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think I got offered like a salami sandwich two-thirds of the way through last weekend. And I was like, oh, I just sit sit a bit heavy, reckon. My stomach would not handle that. I can't handle that sort of like meaty stuff in like even before I race or train, I have to avoid that stuff. That would be the worst for me. No, I had someone hand me once, um ah like, they were almost like salami sticks, but like the little ones. And I thought I was being handed like a gel or something and it was literally just meat sticks. As I was running along, I'm like, I can't eat these.
00:45:31
Speaker
yeah um but yeah Yeah, back in the vest for a post-race snack, I reckon. Oh, yeah, post-race, yeah. No better way to get your protein in. Yeah, get that meat stick in. um what What I would say to that I think is like for me is like if you, like you said, the big scale races, you're going to get a similar experience wherever you are with a slight difference in flavor. um But if you want to I found like the small races in the countries that I've been to, they like, they're sort of like an extension of traveling to that place and you really sort of absorbed into the culture of that. Yeah.
00:46:06
Speaker
of that sort of small place or that that area um so yeah i love like obviously love competing in in big races but i also think those sort of they don't necessarily have to be small but like those sort of less uh less well-known ones less less utmb like the more maybe the more culture that you can engage with so yeah it depends what you're looking for but i i love that part of traveling and finding a a local race to sort of jump in and try and sort of be amongst it. 100%. You meet cool people. Often they've got like food on the go at the end and everyone's just sitting around having like traditional food of wherever you're at and it's so good.
00:46:50
Speaker
And in general, people love Australians. I don't know why, but people just love us. They do. They love I love the token Australian, which is great coming from a country that's somewhat well regarded.
00:47:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's classic. And I guess like on extension, it's not just – often it's not just a running race, right? It's a running festival and I think that encompasses so much so much more.
00:47:11
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Although some of my favourites are like the little ones in Italy where it is – especially some of the uphills where it is just a one-off race. Everyone goes off and there's maybe 100 people there and then at the top there's someone there on the barbecue, there's food there and it's just the smallest little thing. Everyone destroys themselves on the uphill.
00:47:30
Speaker
eats some food and walks back down together, honestly, some of the coolest experiences you'll ever get because you meet the most random people and it it just feels wild um to be doing. um There's no festival about it. It feels like you're at someone's like family get-together.
00:47:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's like kicking the soccer ball around at the local oval. It's like the equivalent of that. 100%. it feels like it when they're that small. They're some of my definite favorites. But great question.
00:47:59
Speaker
Great question, Ian. Well, Toby, thank you for giving us the rundown of ah sort of where you've been, where you're at. And now everyone can cheer you on and sort of know a bit more of your journey towards OCC this year, as you said, biggest race you've been you've tackled so far, which...
00:48:15
Speaker
I'm excited for you. This is going to be very, very cool. A quick break in the show to thank Bix. Bix has just come out with their 30 gram gel in two brand new flavors. This is a new gel, new flavors. You've got the choice of the salted strawberry or the berry. The salted strawberry is also packing 300 milligrams of sodium as an increase, whereas the berry has 200 milligrams. Both make them perfect for the conditions we have in Australia, yeah whereas most gels on the market do not have sodium within them. What Bix has done here is take the recipe for the gels that work so well, that 1.8 ratio that is very, very friendly on the stomach and added a soft, subtle, but very tasty twist that you can dial in your race day and your training nutrition to that extra fine detail.
00:48:59
Speaker
As you know, Bix has been supporting the show from the start and it literally helps keep the podcast coming to you every week. So if you want to support the show, level up your own nutrition game, head over to the Bix website, use our brand new code PEAK, P-E-A-K for 20% off at checkout. And with that, let's get back to the show.
00:49:16
Speaker
Brodie, moving to give a bit of an update from you, obviously you're in this like ah waiting period. Have you been doing much training or has it all been house preparation? yeah like I've been trying to do what I can, um which is like is I'm theoretically doing as much as i want. Like I could nearly do like i I have time to do more, but I'm trying not to overdo it. Yeah.
00:49:43
Speaker
So, yeah, I've been sort of getting to the gym. um I tried the stepper the other day um to try and get something a little bit more running specific back into the program and it felt pretty good. And then talked to Lockie and said, is that a smart idea? I did it before I talked to him just as a test. I only did it for like I did it for like two minutes just to see what it felt like and he was like, yeah, theoretically um should be fine. So I've started incorporating that like not a huge amount like I've been doing sort of like 10 to 15 minutes um and now I've slowly added a little bit of weight but not much. You can build it up to Toby style, four by 10 minutes. Yeah.
00:50:28
Speaker
I'd love to. um ah The thing is, like, I feel like both that and riding, I feel like I could do a lot more, but I'm trying not to overdo it. I'm in this sort of spot where I'm, it's interesting because, like, I'm a bit anxious about how it's feeling, not so much from the integrity of the of the Achilles, like, repair, but more about the tendinopathy thing.
00:50:52
Speaker
coming back um so like every small feeling i'm like overthinking which is like to some extent iss a good thing um because i feel like in the past i've overdone it um and and let it go too far but i also said acknowledge it's not very healthy to be like poking my heel every sort of 20 minutes and seeing what it feels like because it just doesn't are you fine now are you fine now are you fine now yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or are you better now? Are you better now? Because it started like a bit of painful on the bone, like right on the bottom of my heel where I haven't really probably had it before. So I don't know if it really matters and I don't really get it in function. Like I don't get it when I'm moving around. I can only really get it by pushing on it. But yeah, it's that sort of like classic overthinking that I usually do.
00:51:41
Speaker
um and I feel like in the past with my Achilles, I've overthought so long to then go, Now overthinking it's not useful. Start doing things and then I've done too much. So yeah, I'm trying to get that balance right, which is tricky. um Lockheed is going to be back from Europe in a in a week or so. So I'll catch up with him, which will be good um because the hospital physio is seeing sort of that sort of petered out a little bit because they're less like they're very busy and don't have time. It's less less important now that I'm further down the track. Um, so, yeah, it'd be good to sort of run some things past. But yeah, I'm i'm trying to do more. i'm I'm worried because my calf is so different size that I just I need to wait for that to catch up. But there's a little bit of impatience to start doing more. um
00:52:35
Speaker
And knowing what is the right amount is, yeah, the thing that I'm trying to sort of get right. fulfilling the upcoming. I'll have a baby here in the next few days and then I won't be thinking about it. Yeah, the upcoming period of sleep deprivation might um might help with that. Yeah, yeah.
00:52:51
Speaker
Yes, I'll have bigger things to worry about, which will probably be good because even then, like just since like I i worked the last time on Friday and even since then, I've noticed like a massive increase in the amount of time I'm thinking about it. um So I feel like having other things to take my mind off it will be a good thing. um So, yeah, it's the it's interesting for sure. But, um yeah, I'm coming around. I'm trying to sort of reframe it in my mind now that, look, I'm 30, turned 32 in like a week or so.
00:53:22
Speaker
I've had a long run. Like, yes, I'd love to get back to being competitive, but I also feel like that chase of trying to get back to being competitive may not be very useful both for my mental health and its actual recovery. So I'm trying to work towards reframing it in my mind where I've got other things that is fine. Like, I don't know, it feels like semi-retirement. I don't think it is, but like it feels like that feeling where I'm trying to get meaning from other things that can replace the meaning. Like I've been –
00:53:56
Speaker
like I'm not going to go as far as to say i'm necessarily an elite. Like, yeah, it's hard to say what ah what the description of an elite athlete is, but I've been doing serious competitive sports since I was 15.
00:54:08
Speaker
fifteen So it's like it's hard to then take yourself away from that, I think. um Oh, yeah. so I'm working on trying to sort of reshape things and go, I can still sort of be engaged with these things that I love by – coaching and doing the podcast and sort of like still being involved in the sport in other ways. and And look, I'm not saying I won't be back to being competitive. I hope that I am. But if that doesn't happen, then I've got to get –
00:54:39
Speaker
I've got to work towards accepting that, I think. And I don't think pushing myself from a competitive point of view is going to help with my recovery. So, yeah. Yeah. yeah It's almost like like I'm resonating with a lot of what you're saying right there um because I'm in a similar thing of like feeling like I can't push. But I guess I've just reframed it as don't push for it to return, let it come back to you.
00:55:04
Speaker
Slowly. yeah it's It's not chasing. Like you're not chasing anything. You're just putting in the work to allow it to come back in a way. Yes. um Yeah. Yeah, I think the thing with that that I find hard is like I think I've always, I've chased for the last three years because I've been like, well, I'm taking it seriously. I'm like sacrificing time spent.
00:55:25
Speaker
working on my career and time spent with my family and my friends and Laura and all that sort of stuff that it's hard to like, I find it hard to conceptualize committing. I know a lot of people do it because everyone does it. Everyone. Most people listen to this podcast commit and I'm sure they struggle with the same thing, like commit to training when like maybe they're not at the top end competing or and people like yeah I don't and know if I'm butchering saying that, but like it feels hard to say I'm not trying to, i'm I'm not sort of pushing myself to the limit and therefore I can't sacrifice the time to to do it. But then again, I do want to get back being active. Yeah.
Simone's Training Insights
00:56:03
Speaker
yeah I think this is actually where I'm thankful that my journey into running was one of not being very good, jumping in all of the mass participation races and like I was that person. I was giving my absolute all to come 300th back there sort of thing. And it's like it's the exact same.
00:56:23
Speaker
Like it nothing has changed other than I'm further up the field. And it's that it's almost like you can actually hold the same relationship. It's almost like you don't actually have to change your relationship with the sport. It's almost like you just have to quiet down the sort of possibly ego side or like the side that says you should be in a different spot. Because definitely like when I was coming into it, it's like, I didn't know where I should be or where I shouldn't be. So I was just like, well, here I am.
00:56:48
Speaker
This is my position. And it's, I paid zero attention to people around me. Like even when I actually did well in races, it wasn't even a, I'm racing the person next to me. It was always internal and going, I'm running as fast as I bloody well can. And it's like, I'll keep doing that till I'm 80. I'll be way, way back. You'll be waiting for me. But it's like you can you can do that the whole time.
00:57:07
Speaker
And as long as as long as that's sort of what you're actually putting the goal at of getting the most out of yourself, um it's like it you do get the same feelings. You get the same relief. Exactly. elation relief it's all the same it's just trying to so turn off any external factors of what are people going to think of this result are people going to view me differently am of a different worth because i'm in a different spot in the field because the answer is no not at all um it's just the way you look at it that might change whereas like the way you go about it and the way you can do it doesn't need to change at all
00:57:42
Speaker
And even then, I'd almost say that the more seriously I've taken the sport, it's almost like the more I've listened to my body, the more I've rested, the more I've taken time off when I need it, the more I've like taken things slowly as opposed to that desperate chase for results and fitness and um proving myself in a way I don't know but it's like it's ah it's a really cool transition to the most let go of the chase and just develop the joyful I'm doing this for me side of it which is usually the way that you're going to get back to the best you anyway does that make sense yeah yeah yeah no definitely I think that
00:58:20
Speaker
can i Can I hop in there? Go. I like to think that Brody, you never started out to run just because you're super competitive and you're ultra good at it all the time. and There was also a love for the movement within itself.
00:58:33
Speaker
So all those good things that come from running in terms of, yeah, like in endorphins or just being a part of something or moving freely through an environment is like also, I know it's ah it's a tough sort of adjustment.
00:58:47
Speaker
But is also, you know, I think we're like to be honest, that that's the thing that I still like even over the last 15 years, like i'm I'm a competitive person, but none of my best memories are the best results, really, like some of them are. But most of them are like other experiences that I had whilst training or even racing when I had like a shitty like I didn't have my best performance, but I had ah like a great experience. So and most of that was around like the experience of being out there and doing a challenge and and that sort of stuff. I feel like that's still going to be there for me, but yeah, it's just, I don't know. I still have this, uh, and I think we all have it and people who are retiring have it of like, what could have been like, what, what am I leaving on the table? I don't want to, it's, it's this like, I don't know.
00:59:32
Speaker
It feels very strange because it's not a big deal at all. It's only for myself. I don't even care what other people think. It's literally only for myself. But it's like this sort of like self-legacy that I can look back on in in future and go, yeah, i left it all out out there on the table. Whereas I feel like the last few years of... limping along with injury have left me with this sort of like unsatisfied feeling. Like i probably should have retired in 2023. No, no, no. This where it's like you just, you do the comeback right and there's no reason why you can't. Yeah. Like there's there's no there's absolutely no reason. that lot of the best people in the sport, especially as you get into sort of longer distances, but even in the 50, like you can be 35 to 38 to more and like still be wildly competitive. yeah. So many examples of that. Shout out to Ian Best crushing it. Shout out to my friend from Finland, Thomas Kari. He's like 42 or 43 and he's like doing a 20. He did a two and a half hour race on the weekend in Finland at like 340s or something like bonkers. You could take two years from right now to still come back and actually get to full fitness and get to wear anything and you'll still be fine. Exactly,
01:00:44
Speaker
And like like Toby said, the main reason I want to get back is so I can go out into the mountains and move through them relatively pain-free or like from injury pain-free. Like I'm happy to feel discomfort while I'm out there, but like yeah yeah I don't want to have the injury feeling while I'm out there. That for me is the main priority. But I still i so really struggle to fight that like background urge of being like, oh, but then you can get back to your best and you can perceive towards this. So it's interesting. Like I'm just... Feeling a lot of feels at the moment.
01:01:14
Speaker
But I also feel like in a week's time when I'm a dad, none of this will be important at all. Quite possibly. Quite possibly. oh well, we will I'm looking forward to that from from that perspective as well. It's definitely going to I think it's definitely, from having talked to a lot of parents, it's definitely going to reshape my perception on a lot of this stuff. So, look, life's for feeling. So feel the feels and ah get on with it.
01:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. We'll be watching this space for sure. um And yeah, I guess on my front, as I said, I'm ah resonating a lot with Brodie on some of those things, mostly just for the like um chase, like as I said, like I'm trying not to chase back fitness, um but I am what, five days out from leaving for Europe now. um I did just actually what on paper,
01:02:04
Speaker
looks like put together a decent training week. And I know that it was a decent training week, but I think I'm sort of in some ways in if for very different reasons where you were, Brody, when you had that had the constant niggle at every run.
01:02:19
Speaker
And so it's it's like it's you're running and you're training, but none of it actually feels that good because it hurts. so essential But that's just i'm having to get used to some of those things because, know,
01:02:33
Speaker
Even some of my physios are like, well, it's going to be probably more rare that I have a pain-free run than I have a painful run in like forever. But well, um, essentially i yeah, I did race on the weekend. I actually did also for the so first time I've done 12, I did 12 by five minutes uphill treadmill threshold, 12 by five minutes on two minutes off, which takes like an hour and 20 something minutes. Yeah.
01:02:59
Speaker
And I freaking love That's a real swap training theory there. that Yeah. Well, i I just copied it off swap. Like I copied it off the, um they, they did a YouTube of like, this is the hardest workout we ever do. And I was like, bang, done. Let's go do it. i can ah So went and did it. Absolutely loved it. Um,
01:03:20
Speaker
It was actually probably the first time where I got to the end and I was like, I feel like I don't feel fit because the speed wasn't at what I would normally be able to do But the feeling was the same, if that makes any sense of like how training used to feel, where I could like at a slower speed, but I could get the same feelings without being exhausted, without being like, and that uphill treadmill run was actually pain free. Um, and that was on the Wednesday after I did 35 Ks on the Monday, I did two trips up and down Mount St Leonard, um, trying to condition these quads very last minute cramming. So I did big Monday, big Wednesday, and then raced Yu Yangs on Saturday, um, as well, which, uh, like it was a good plan training wise, but
01:04:04
Speaker
But the whole week I had the left calf was a niggle and the right hip was a niggle. And when I say a niggle, like I have a problem with my right hip where my leg will literally give way underneath me because it won't catch me every now and again. the first two Ks, I can feel the joint moving about until things stiffen up a bit. It's really not fun. And I wouldn't recommend. And I'm honestly running along going most people would just stop, you know, like they just wouldn't run through this. Are you doing some sort of like activation before you start?
01:04:32
Speaker
ah It takes me about two hours to get out the door at this point between foam rolling and activation. And then I have another like hour or two to two, quite literally, I mean an hour to two of foam rolling every evening trying to even my body up because I feel that uneven and feral right now. Like it's almost, and that it's been explained to me where like I had all this strength before I got really sick and had to take all the time, which was what was holding all my joints in place. And then the time off essentially has meant that I've gotten heaps weaker, especially through where my joints are unstable, which is mostly my hips and my ankles. And then the return to run, essentially, I need everything to strengthen back up and stiffen up. But what happens is that it initially it keeps doing it really unevenly. And I'm getting like overloads in different areas. It's really freaking painful. In different areas, I'll get nerve pain through things. And it's just like,
01:05:29
Speaker
this battle of like I have to strengthen and work it and then release it and strengthen and work it and then release it so that it doesn't um tighten up in like really wrong ways like I'll end up with twisted pelvis and a really high hip and it's all I get out of whack really quickly So it feels like at the moment I'm fighting an uphill battle just to keep my body moving. um But I did still put together the 125Ks for the week, which is my biggest week in a year. So part of me is just like, you still got it done.
01:06:01
Speaker
um But I'm going to say that like even you, Yangs, on the weekend, I had about 6Ks of feeling good. And i was like, you know what, at this point I'll take 6Ks. But then at 16 Ks and not many people thankfully have had this, but I had one of my typical psoas cramps, which the psoas is a muscle that shouldn't cramp on you. And it's, it literally attaches your femur to your spine. So it's like my femur is getting like pulled up towards my spine as you're trying to run. And it is so painful. Um,
01:06:34
Speaker
that it's like I could kind of feel it coming on already at about 6K, held it off and it kind of stayed held off until 16 because the race flattened out. um But then when it came on, it it just became such a death march to the finish line that I finished and went, was it a good idea or a bad idea to do that? I don't know because it was really painful. Um, and so I'm kind of still in that period now where I'm like, that didn't give me any confidence for the fact that I can make it through 30 Ks with 2,600 up and down in like a week and a half, but it's where I'm at. So I'm a bit, as I said, like before Brady, when you were, it was resonating with me, I'm a bit in that period of going, well, I can't chase it now. There's absolutely nothing I can do to sort of make this
01:07:19
Speaker
Like that doing a whole heap more now isn't going to fix this. Possibly doing less might if I'm like fresher going in. There's a chance that like my muscles are able to handle it a bit more possibly. But it's also just that thing of going, well, yes, I'm off to Europe. Yes, it's for a few races, but I'm having to have a completely different mindset to usual of going like confidence of where my performance is going to be is low.
01:07:48
Speaker
But that's okay. And it's kind of just that stepping stone on the way back and kind of going, well, outcomes, don't think about the outcomes. Just try and like have something that goes good in each race or that gets better or that like is a layering stone for the next part of sort of getting back to where I was. Because, yeah, it's almost like because of how unstable I am, I'm actually looking forward to uphills and dreading downhills, which is about as sad as it gets for me.
01:08:15
Speaker
Because normally I'm hanging for those downhills. And at this point I'm a bit like, I don't know if my body can handle the downhills at all. So we'll see.
01:08:26
Speaker
But fun times, um interesting times. Yeah, I don't know. That 4,000 meters of descent in chemo will be great then. Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:37
Speaker
Yeah, it will be. um The 2,000-meter descent to finish, i'm the 2,000-meter climb to start, I'm a bit like, well, that will be sweet. I've been doing that. Like I actually still got within in that 125K, I had 5,000-meters vert. Like it was ah overall a really good week. um It's just that I feel like I've ended the week less confident than I started. For the descending, do you find it easier when it's, say, more runnable and you can go faster or when you sort of have to go slower because of the technical part of the terrain?
01:09:12
Speaker
Like, the slower would it be better, I assume, like... No. So anytime I'm like running normally, even if it's technical, that's fine. I actually found that the descent for Yu Yangs really wasn't, probably was one of the worst because it's almost a kilometer and a half of stairs. And so you're jumping each one. And so the landing's quite heavy. It's, it's.
01:09:31
Speaker
If I'm running down, because my muscles are doing most of that work and there's less of the, like, you're jumping onto one leg. It's when I jump onto one leg that, like, on my left side, my ankle doesn't hold it and on my right side, my hip doesn't hold it.
01:09:45
Speaker
So I'm, like, ah falling apart at two places, um essentially. Or, like, I have two weak spots that are abnormally weak.
01:09:55
Speaker
um Like, when I'm running along and just if I go on a downhill, I can feel my fibula head pop out of place. on that side because of how weak that ankle is. Like I can physically feel it come out and go back in. And I'm a bit like, and I tape it and I need to keep taping it more actually. But it's a bit like, oh, that shouldn't happen. um yeah and But there's nothing I can do about it. It's just going to keep happening. So it's a bit like, it's almost like I need to retrain my body to get strong in the weird ways it needs to be strong to actually hold my joints together the way that it used to. Because it had it's been doing it for years. So I have every faith that it'll do it again.
01:10:31
Speaker
it just needs more time. And so in my head, I'm just like, well, look, you're off to Europe in a week or in four five days. But it's, and I knew this when I signed up for this, that's why my brother's coming along and there's a road trip in between. Like there's a lot of really cool things we're doing in between the races to make it a trip.
01:10:48
Speaker
But at the same time, I guess there was like that hope at the back where you're just like, maybe I'll be ready, maybe to like actually compete. And then there's me at the moment going, ooh, Like I'll give myself every chance on the day by taking off slow and hoping I can come through knowing that that might not happen and that's okay.
01:11:07
Speaker
Essentially, it's where I'm at. but Well, you've got a lot of time to warm up in Kima, that 2,000-meter climb. Very fun. ah That might be where I can actually feel like I'm, like, competent, though. That might be where I try and actually go with people um because like I've been doing climbing. Climbing I feel great with compared to even how I used to feel. So um it's almost the rest of it. Then then it'll probably start to get higher. But you have plenty of time to practice before you do the race. Well, yeah, I do i do a hike of the race. i've i've got I'm in Italy. I'm in the area for a long enough time to get a bit more conditioning. Is it going to be enough for Kima? ah
01:11:49
Speaker
i I have hope, but not much. um But at the same time, is it going to be a very cool experience? Yes. so I'm not sure you can ever be fully ready for Kima unless you live in the Alps. Yeah, well, even for the one I'm doing in a week and a half, it's only just dawned on me it goes to 3,200 metres and I have zero altitude acclimatisation beforehand.
01:12:11
Speaker
So I'm prepared really. It also climbs 1,900 metres in the first 13K, something like that. it's something both That's good training for chemo. Oh, it's perfect chemo training. It's perfect. It's just... Don't push too hard.
01:12:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's just scary. um But either way, either way, fun times on all fronts. And for the pod overall for the next couple of weeks, I think we've got four of us in ah Europe and Brodie having a baby. So... If we're a bit off on timings, people, if we're getting episodes out, you know why. um And we apologize in advance, but we've got a we've got a mayhem period coming up for the pod.
01:12:54
Speaker
um it's good What's going on? Just a little bit. But either way, um I don't think ah we've got much news for the week. I don't think we'll cover that UTMB one this week. Maybe we can touch on that at another time because we've been going for a while and we'll get into results. I'll quickly run through. We had some international results. Kate Avery won, the queen that she won Monterosa 15K. Ian Best was 11th at Mont-Dunit-Aiguille 20K, which is, that's in France, yeah? That's a really well-known one.
01:13:28
Speaker
um Yeah. and I have a feeling it was maybe part of the Mountain Running Cup, like one of the, maybe not one of the gold label, but one of the, don't know, I feel like they have silver label races.
01:13:39
Speaker
Yeah, World Mountain Running Association, it's definitely one of theirs usually. And then we've got some decent runners. I think also some of the, I know some of Mikey's teammates, because Mikey's back in Chamonix, some of the ASICS runners doing that. So it was pretty, think it was a pretty strong field.
01:13:56
Speaker
Nice, nice. Well, Ian, when Twinsies with Toby, because Toby, you were also there 11th at the Marathon de las Turcas for our international results as we've covered. And Charlie Hamilton was letting rip at Monterosa and I was tracking and he was doing really bloody well, but I haven't actually got the story on what went wrong, but he was in the end a DNF. Brady, do you know what happened or we'll have to get Charlie on I'm not sure. By the time I was watching the live splits or I jumped onto the live stream to have a look and he wasn't being featured and then I looked at the live results and he was sort of back in sort of 15th and I think shortly after that he pulled out. So I'm not exactly sure what happened but, yeah, it would be cool to hear from him at some point about how that went. I'm sure he probably doesn't want to talk about it that much.
01:14:49
Speaker
Probably not. We all just want to move on from those ones. So we might let him do that. He had fun weekend being a babysitter. So um both Lockie and Kate run the 15K though. So good on him. He still had a good weekend.
01:15:01
Speaker
Do the thing where we wait for his next really good result, get him on then, and then ask what happened. Yeah, great After he's had another good one. That's always a nicer way and that' way to put it. um Okay, Brodie, you bring us back to our domestic results or some of them.
01:15:15
Speaker
Yeah, so we had a big um big weekend of racing across the country and a lot of a lot of people um racing in, yeah, a lot of the sort of best elites as well, racing as well, which was cool to see. so I'll start up in Queensland for the Guzzler, which is a very well-known Queensland race in Brisbane, similar trails to... Well, I guess it's probably older than Brisbane Trail Ultra, which now doesn't exist, so it's sort of hung around, but it's that similar um trails around Mount Cootha.
01:15:49
Speaker
ah The 100K, the winner was Hugo Rocher in the men in 11 hours 03. Blake Burke was second in 1224 Ulus Naranya.
01:16:01
Speaker
narana Narayana, sorry, 1254.52. Just beat out Ben Wilson, who was 1254.53. Sprint finish at the end of the 100K. 100, ow. Yes, very good. ah In the women and also second outright was Jemima Cooper. Sorry, Jemima, I missed that as i was the men's and females were separated. So she was actually second outright, which is very cool. She ran 12 hours, 15, 17. I think that was a course record as well.
01:16:32
Speaker
I believe so. Yes, you did. Based on their socials. Probably you. um Ash Smith was in second in 13 hours 55 and Jessica Collins was third in 14 hours 50. Yeah, I think someone said it was maybe Holly Ranson's course record.
Race Results and Highlights
01:16:48
Speaker
So I think this race has been around for a while and had some... Some some good people run, so it definitely has some good course records. So always a good race when one of them goes down. In the 50K, the Glasshouse full, I believe, maybe also a course record i compared to the website. Again, I don't know if these courses have changed, but...
01:17:09
Speaker
jim Jamie Cascario came first in 4-1-21-27, which I think maybe it's it's faster than the course record listed of Ben Dufus. So I'm not sure if the course is exactly the same, but if it is, it's a very impressive time from... Jamie there. Eddie Keough was second in 4 hours 34-40 and Zane Robertson was 4 hours 50-26. In the women's, ah Zoe Manning got the win there in 5 hours 52. Jessica Schlatter came second in 5 hours not far behind. And Denise Davies was third in 6 hours 52.
01:17:50
Speaker
And then I'll just give the winners of the 21 or actually this is, again, the 21K also quite competitive, the big sipper. ah Ben ran the 21K this year. I think he has the course record for that and the 50. This was not as fast as his...
01:18:08
Speaker
fastest but still a very quick time of one hour 28 20 for a 21 case pretty fast david vernon was second in one hour 32 54 and we know how quick david vernon was running earlier in the year so to beat uh david by four minutes is pretty impressive although ben on these trails i think is maybe leo pederson can beat him but apart from that he's pretty unbeatable on these home trails of his he's yeah he's very good at them Lachlan Christie was third in one hour 50, 14. In the women, Jane Hoskin was first in one hour 53, 35. Christy Laurie second in one hour 56, 16. And Katie McLean in one hour 59, 23. Nice.
01:18:54
Speaker
nice I'll give the winners of the 10K, sorry. Zach Milligan in 42, 30 was the win. And Laura Mayers 108, 29. So was... so that was A lot going on up in Queensland, some some pretty impressive runs across all distances. Awesome. I can give you a break and take us to Yu Yang's before yeah bring us to So Jin Moi. There's just as many races at Yu Yang's. That's like the most different distances I think I've seen. Oh, I know. I know. I'll just go through the winners of each of the distances because there is a lot of them. So in the 100 mile, we had Brett McAvoy with the win in 22 hours 30 on the men's side and Nagisaka Maze in 26 hours.
01:19:33
Speaker
23 for the women. ah In the 100K for the women, we had Katie Dawson with the win in just over 15 hours and James Bland winning for the men in 10 hours, 58 for the Okay.
01:19:45
Speaker
for the fifty k Chris Wilder got the win in 4 hours 28 and Sophie Broome was first female and third overall in 4 hours 48. So not too far behind there. And a great run from Sophie. She's doing CCC, yeah? Yeah.
01:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, that would check out. um So that's a good build-up race for her. On the 42K, the women's winner, who was also third outright, was Catherine Elliott in 401 and the men's winner, Keith Smith, in 3 hours 44. The 30K, Sav Mathrophetus, got the better of Matt Cree, and so that was a nice probably a nice battle for them, but he's 2 hours 19. And Jillian Turnbull, Jill Turnbull, got the women's win in 2 hours 48.
01:20:33
Speaker
In the 21K, Matt Bailey had a really good run. He ran an hour 30, which I think is the second fastest time on this course, only to Nathan Pierce, who I think ran an hour 27, 28.
01:20:44
Speaker
twenty seven twenty eight So Matt had a really good run there and won by 10 minutes um for the men's. And then oh yeah I got the one win in the women's, um but back in an hour 50.
01:20:58
Speaker
there and then for the 15k jensen wheeler got the men's win in an hour eight this one was nice and close with the top three in about two minutes of each other and jessica mcnamara got the women's win in an hour 16 and that's that's actually all the distances there we go wasn't even too bad Although they did notice, they have actually introduced at this one a canny cross race, like a 15K. You can run the 15K with your dog. Oh, cool. They start like 15 minutes. Are dogs allowed in you, Yangs?
01:21:33
Speaker
and ah They must be allowed. There was people walking their dogs there too, so they must be allowed. But like, yeah, there was they they just started 15 minutes before the other 15K runners and they had the canine section.
01:21:48
Speaker
So it looked pretty cool. I love that they've included that. Very cool. Nice one. Well, I'll take us back to, we'll go to head up to Canberra where we had the Sir Chinmoy Canberra Trail Series. um This one looks to, I think these ones always have a few runners, but this one looks to have attracted a fair few people. um It was called the Aranda Meander.
01:22:12
Speaker
Great name. um It was twenty k I had the climb. I've lost it. Great podcasting. 20K with.
01:22:24
Speaker
Great. still Still lost it. I don't know where it went. Oh, it was 20K. It had a a good, decent amount of climb. It went up ah up over, well, not quite to the top of Black Mountain, but around Black Mountain and then back down. um In the men's race, the winner was Andrew Gattenby, who I'm not sure we've seen for a little while, so maybe his first sort of race back in a little bit. He ran 1 hour 17.36. In second was Ben Butler in 1 hour 18.08. And third was Jared Sopanewski in 1 hour 19.06. Thomas Banks in fourth in 1 hour 19.15, so just behind that. So pretty...
01:23:03
Speaker
tight racing and I think like 126 59 was eight so you had about eight people within um eight minutes and that's some pretty decent runners as well so good bit of that up in Canberra in the women's race also a strong field Britt Harridan who we spoke to was that last week a few weeks ago yeah um She took the win. i think she's won a few of these ones now. um She ran 1.33.41. Alice was second hour, And Bernie Connors was third in that was the...
01:23:43
Speaker
twenty 20K and they also had a 10K. The winner in the men was Levi Davies in 40-48 and in the women, the winner was Prue Davies in 46-40. So I wonder if they are related in some way. Two Davies took out the win. So...
01:24:02
Speaker
That'll be fun. Always good to get a joint win in there. Awesome. We'll just whip through a few of the smaller races that happened over the weekend. There was one of James' races up in um Over River Arena trail running series where Ellie Jackson again went wild, got, I think James said, an 11-minute course record to run an hour 29 on the long course coming second overall.
01:24:23
Speaker
ah Rory Parnell got the men's win in an hour 26. And in the short course, Amy Sullivan was the female winner in 49 minutes and Bo Meganley, the men's winner in 45. Then at Goldfields Pipeline Marathon, this I think is the one that bre um Vlad might have done before um or maybe he the 50K. Yeah, I think did it last year.
01:24:46
Speaker
Yeah, and because they've got pretty quick marathon times, the men's winner Thomas Tedge in 2 hours 53 and the women's winner Lisa Mannix in 3 hours 25. But then the half marathon, the men's winner was Matt Smith in 73 minutes, which seems very fast if it depending on, I don't, I don't, I'm assuming it's a rail trail or he said the Goldfields Park. think it's sort of like a dirt road slash. Yeah, still very quick. Pretty good surface. I think it was.
01:25:15
Speaker
Yeah, and then women's winner Neve Daly in an hour 27. So again, very quick. And then the 50K Sota Mahara in the men's winner, three hours 46 and Katie Nichols 419 for the women.
01:25:30
Speaker
um And then Brodie, you've got one more before we take it to Tassie with Toby. Yeah, I got so two up in Queensland. i'll just ski the We had the Boyne Valley 50. So the winner in the women's was Gemma Berry in four hours 26.
01:25:49
Speaker
Second was Charmaine Thompson in four hours 58. And third was Olivia Briggs in five hours 58. two And in the men's, Rhys Williams took the win 3.27, Lachlan Landy in second in 3.38, and Jack Smith in 3.57.
Conclusion and Announcements
01:26:06
Speaker
Nice.
01:26:08
Speaker
yeah then we had and the night, Wild Horse at night race. i'll just give the winners in the Gareth I've definitely not said that right. Two hours of 7.20. Sorry, Gareth. um That's definitely not right. And ah these results are very hard to read. I've lost my... There we go. ah In the women's, the winner was Leonie Bradfield in two 33.59. So that was wild horse at night.
01:26:37
Speaker
so that was a wild horse at night Nice. And last but not least, you've got the insider info here, Toby. Take us to Tassie. Yeah, Tassie Tobes, given the results. So... um We have the, yeah, so the Northwest Trail Running Series, which is a nice little local three-part series up in the northwest of Tassie. And it was its first round ah over the weekend.
01:27:05
Speaker
And there were three different distances. So we had the long course, which was 20 kilometres with 700 metres The medium metres of gain.
01:27:20
Speaker
So we might start with the short and I just might mention the winners here. so starting with the ladies, we had Evelyn Blythe with 29.37. And then on the male side, we had Jovi Rand Nice.
01:27:39
Speaker
um heading over tonight medium course ah We Lynn St. John 1 hour 0647 for the ladies.
01:27:51
Speaker
And into the men, we had Isaac Carmack with 5626, which great.
01:27:59
Speaker
which is great And then on to the last, the 20K long course. I might mention all three here. We'll start with the fellas. So Thomas Willis came in with an hour 44.28, followed only 24 seconds behind with Rowan Grant at one hour 44.04. And then Thomas Merton taking it out with one hour 36.18. little bit ahead of the pack. And on to the ladies, ah we have Sasha Rolston for 2 hours 13.02 and then Stella Foley in at second place at 2 05.37. And then at the top of the race was Amy Lampert at 1 hour 54.34. So the Series. Have you run up there before, Toby, Yola? I've never i' never heard of Yola, so I had to see where it was. Oh, I actually, yeah. So yeah, good point. Yolo is just inland of like Bernie and Wynyard. Apparently it's like a mixture yeah of mountain biking tracks and maybe some roads, but yeah, I haven't, I haven't put my feet on them yet. i haven't seen them. So definitely a place to check out. Nice. Yeah.
01:29:15
Speaker
The next two rounds will sort of be in Railton, which I also haven't ran around, and then in Penguin, so I presume around the Dile Range, which is some beautiful trail running around there.
01:29:26
Speaker
Yeah, nice. Nice. Awesome. Well, very busy weekend all around the country for this one. and Next weekend, there's not quite so much coming up with the Australian Outback Marathon in Northern Territory, which is one of the few races we do get in Northern Territory. So that should be fun. And then Sydney Ultra Marathons and Burrallow Bush Run in New South Wales all coming up. this weekend, so slightly lighter on weekend, but it's always a busy August once we get to August. So lots coming up.
01:29:57
Speaker
But thank you, everyone, for joining us for episode 119 with Toby. For our Patreon listeners, keep listening. We've got a few of your questions coming for Toby in our Patreon bonus show. and if anyone listening is not yet a Patreon and interested in joining, you can click the link in our show notes. We appreciate any and all support. possible and you will get access to asking all the questions that we answer on the show and as well as a few extra bonuses that pop up from now and now and then and early access to all of our interviews and main shows so have a look on the link in the show notes but and for now Toby thank you very very much for coming on and joining us from Europe and Brodie
01:30:42
Speaker
The wait continues, but good luck for the next week of changes in your life. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks all for the chat. Thanks so much for having me.