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The Joy of GMing - with Special Guest Steve of Forge of Lore
66 Plays1 year ago
Welcome to the sister-series to Anywhere But Now— our Doctor Who Actual Play Podcast! Our special guest today is Steve, DM of Forge of Lore!
Join us for a wonderful chat about what makes a good Norse campaign setting, the cathartic power of a good TTRPG session, plus the benefits of therapy!
We’ll cover some making-of and behind the scenes tidbits of our latest mod as well, so do stick around, with host Casey Jones!
Find our guest Steve on the Forge of Lore Twitch stream!
Be sure to subscribe and leave a comment, and follow us on BluSky and Twitter for more updates. Don’t forget to send your questions & fan art to [email protected]!
Learn more at our Discord! https://discord.gg/qmdUPzun7n
Music by Tabletop Audio
Theme by RJ Pirchinello
TW: Today's discussion includes mentions of self-harm. If you ever find yourself struggling, you can find help at a hotline here or at one of the links below.
https://findahelpline.com/
https://988lifeline.org/
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Transcript
Introduction to the Series
00:00:34
Speaker
Whether you're at a game table, in your comfiest chair reading a book, or listening at home, there's nothing like a great adventure story. But they don't happen by accident. Welcome to the joy of GMing, a special interview series on the craft of great gaming. There's just something magic about sitting down to a good table with great friends, isn't there? If you're a lifelong gamer or a newbie rolling up your first character sheet,
00:01:00
Speaker
If you're a DM or a GM or just can't get enough tabletop talk in your day, this is the show for you. Each episode will bring you amazing guest speakers to talk about writing games and running them, building fantastic worlds and compelling story arcs, and oh so useful tricks of the trade.
Meet the Hosts: Casey & Steve
00:01:19
Speaker
Hear some amazing stories, get inspired for your next game, and join us for an hour and a half or so of lively conversation.
00:01:27
Speaker
This sister series to anywhere but now, our Doctor Who actual play podcast, will be released between mods or episodes with our ongoing serialized show. We cover some making of and behind the scenes tidbits of our latest mod as well, so do stick around.
00:01:43
Speaker
I'm Casey Jones. Over the last dozen years, I've written and produced screenplays, children's animation for TV and film, graphic novels, stage plays, murder mysteries, and audio adventures. I've also been writing and running tabletop games for over 10 years. Join me as we dive deep into tabletop with experts in the field.
00:02:04
Speaker
Experts like our special guest today, Steve Carter. Steve is a dungeon master of the Scald actual play campaign of D&D by Forge of Lore. A tech guru and professional videographer, Steve has over 20 years experience in video production and has been running the Scald campaign for about a year.
00:02:24
Speaker
putting his focus on high production quality and storytelling. I have been looking forward to this. Steve, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for having me, man. Expert is a strong word for me, but happy to be here. We're all experts in something. Yeah, sure. It's great to be here. Thanks. It's great to have you. What can you tell our listeners who aren't familiar with Forge of Lore?
00:02:49
Speaker
Well, we are a YouTube channel. You can find us at forgelord.com. As you mentioned, we do an actual play. Our thing to stand out really is three of the five of us have experienced a video production, professional video production and videography. And I have a degree in computer networking. So I was able to or we were able to bring kind of those specialties.
Behind the Scenes: Production Challenges and Innovations
00:03:18
Speaker
Uh-huh. Into the show, adding like animated backgrounds. My recording setup is extremely convoluted, thanks to my IT background. And yeah, we just like telling cool freaking stories through Dungeons and Dragons.
00:03:38
Speaker
That is really cool. So the fact that not one but three of you have experience in video production, how else has that impacted your show? When we started, we were really looking forward to the, we were pre-recording and then editing, cleaning everything up, and then posting the edited version. Well, three of us are editors and we're like, this is going to be so easy. We can like take turns editing. And then one of us had a baby right as the show started.
00:04:08
Speaker
And suddenly two of us are editing. But I mean, other than that, we all have very sort of creative ideas for effects to put into the show, different kinds of videos to record and just coming up with different ideas for fun stuff that we can do and stuff that looks and sounds cool. Very cool. Fun stuff like what, Steve?
00:04:33
Speaker
Oh, I don't know. One thing we did is, like I said, it's about production value for us. When we started, I was just using Albert Rodeo, you know, your standard 2D maps. But one day I was on YouTube and saw a video on Tailspire. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. It's 3D map making for tabletop games.
00:04:56
Speaker
It's basically digital Dwarven Forge. You just go in, you know, you have tiles and props and you can build a battle map in 3D and you can import everyone's minis from Hero Forge. So that's really cool. That's one thing we do to kind of immerse further into the story. And I don't just use it for battle maps either. I use it kind of for cinematic sequences.
00:05:23
Speaker
Yeah, no, I've enjoyed seeing that on your show. The dining hall, the battlefield, the chapel, things like that. I have a lot of fun. I'm the guy that, yeah, I played Sims 4, but I never actually played Sims 4. I just built buildings and stuff like that. So it kind of speaks to that bit of me of just building something cool and then having my friends play in it.
World-Building and Mythology in Gaming
00:05:48
Speaker
See, I think there's something very crucial, like core-level cornerstone stuff of, I just want to build something cool and then let my friends play with it. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's in the DNA of a lot of GMs and DMs.
00:06:04
Speaker
I mean, yeah, it goes to the core of being a GM, right? Build something cool. Here, have fun. Go wreck it. Exactly. Exactly. Now, as I understand it, you, like a lot of DMs, you came to it by seeing and hearing others run an actual play. How did it feel to see others doing something you realized you wanted to do?
00:06:27
Speaker
It, of course, is most it was mostly started with Critical Role, but actually my first sort of introduction to actual play and Dungeons and Dragons in general was actually from a podcast, Harmon Town from Dan Harmon, Episode Two or something. He started playing Dungeons and Dragons at the end and
00:06:49
Speaker
Of course, he doesn't really know how to play and is drunk the whole time, but the DM took care of everything. But just that, like, having fun in an open world. The idea that you can just, you know, you could go save the world or, I don't know, you guys want to run a tavern or something, you can do whatever. It was super fascinating to me.
00:07:11
Speaker
I've always been kind of a storyteller. I always wanted to obviously get into filmmaking and stuff. I used to make terrible, you know, sketches on YouTube, comedy, terrible sketches is how we get to better sketches. Exactly. And, you know, I always messed around with like VFX. So I do sketches around VFX and stuff.
00:07:33
Speaker
And then I was like, wait, so I can tell a really like crazy story without spending weeks, you know, making an explosion look real. Yeah, that sounds that's that's for me. That's it. Yep, that's me. That's so cool.
00:07:48
Speaker
Yeah, no. Something I've learned both running games myself and also interviewing other GMs at the table and DMs is that you don't need top-of-the-line fully rendered graphics to be part of your storytelling toolbox. But making an effort, putting something together, whether it's two-dimensional or three-dimensional with something like Tailspire, which is really amazing,
00:08:17
Speaker
your players really appreciate that there's any kind of scaffolding they can suspend their disbelief on right right yeah it's it's it's much easier when you're just hanging out with friends telling a kind of cooperative story
00:08:33
Speaker
It's just very easy to get engrossed in the story and just play off of each other's ideas and stuff like that. It's a lot of fun and it makes it much easier. I only started playing D&D about two years ago because I could never find the people to play with.
00:08:55
Speaker
But once I did, uh, within the first month of me starting playing my first campaign, I was suddenly in three other campaigns. It's very addictive. Oh, you don't need to tell us how addictive. I can quit anytime I want. I'm in control. I'm in control. Sure. Why not? Um, hang on. I gotta go play this game real quick.
00:09:22
Speaker
I'll be back. I just got to go schedule three more interviews. It's fine. Yep. I don't have a problem. So I did want to ask you what drew you to Norse mythology for your scam, for your campaign? Why Scald?
00:09:36
Speaker
The answer, the true answer, I fear is always more disappointing than people expect, which is, I think Vikings are cool. I think Norse is awesome. It might be that I'm a metalhead, but I've always found, I'm not really into history, and listen, between us squirrel friends, I'm not really into fantasy all that much.
00:10:04
Speaker
But there's something I know, but there's something about Norse mythology that is just I can't even put my finger on it. It's just so fascinating. And then, you know, I knew quite a bit about it. And then once I started writing the campaign, doing my research into the details in Norse mythology, like the more I learn about it, the more I love it, how it's, you know, the the classic thought of Vikings and Norse are like they're
00:10:34
Speaker
burly dirty men that just want to see blood and all that, but you look into their stories and there's a lot of really good stuff. There's stuff about how to survive. The stories aren't about brutality, they're about how to survive. The example I always give is
00:10:58
Speaker
During Ragnarok, you know, the big battle of the gods. The end and the beginning of the whole cycle. Exactly. The enemies will arrive in Asgard in Nagulfar, which is a ship made of the untrimmed toenails and fingernails of the dead.
00:11:21
Speaker
And that is a lesson that you better trim your nails, which is a really good way to avoid getting sick and dying in those times. You better trim your nails or else you're going to, you know, contribute to Ragnarok. It's just like little things like that of how to take care of yourself, how to survive. It's fascinating. Well, I'm thrilled that you find it so fascinating because it sounds like you're that you are doing the research so that you are making it feel
00:11:50
Speaker
genuine for your players, for your listeners, because we don't have to be scholars. We don't have to be historians with a master's degree in Norse history or Norse mythology behind us in order to be able to do some light research and figure out the bones of a story that resonates with us that also still feels true to the time period, or in this case, the campaign setting that you want to tell it in.
00:12:20
Speaker
Right. The kind of route that I go is accurate to a degree. Mostly I just take I'll learn about stuff and take inspiration from it. And I'll try to be as sort of accurate as possible. I mean, obviously there's certain things about the Old Norse culture that I'm like, yeah, that doesn't have a place here. Stuff like that. But, you know, I still give myself room to sort of bend.
00:12:48
Speaker
rules and bend kind of facts. But I then go in and kind of sprinkle little just factoids or whatever. Like when we were doing the raid battle, you know, they were raiding a town. I was like, you know, Viking isn't a people. It's a job. It's you know, you would go Viking by going Viking. You would become a Viking. It's like saying pirate.
00:13:15
Speaker
But just like little factoids like that just sprinkled in for funsies. That's really cool. I got to give a shout out to Jackson Crawford is my main source of info. He's on YouTube. When I came across it, it was the weirdest thing because you turn on the video and it's
00:13:34
Speaker
A very cowboy looking dude. He's wearing a cowboy hat. He films all of his videos in the mountains of Colorado, meaning like behind him is this huge vista of mountains and wildlife. And, you know, he's he's got kind of this southern draw and stuff. And he's like, well, let me tell you all about Odin's have them all. Just like.
00:13:59
Speaker
And he knows his stuff, and it's like he's very good at taking that sort of Christian and, you know, that kind of lends off of the stories and getting down to just what the texts say, the surviving texts, and what he thinks they mean without any sort of lens or agenda of like,
00:14:22
Speaker
these heathens, they didn't know what they were talking about or or, you know, there's some YouTube's out there that are like, this is actually my religion. He's not, you know, he doesn't believe in Norse mythology. He's just telling facts about what was said and what was told. And it gets down to the root. And it's it's where I pretty much learn all my old Norse and the stories, the mythology. It's they're really entertaining videos, too.
00:14:52
Speaker
Wonderful. How has Norse mythology informed your storytelling with Forge of Lore? Oh, that's a good question. Like, are you borrowing Norse themes? Are you using characters that are inspired by those archetypes? Yeah, for sure. First of all, it's kind of easy because a lot of D&D and lore and the character classes and stuff
00:15:17
Speaker
They come from there's a lot of Norse mythology in there. The berserker class of barbarians, that's based off of a berserker, which is Odin's warrior that when in battle, he'd go into a rage and suddenly would be supposedly impenetrable to steal and fire. And that's exactly what the barbarian and five does.
00:15:44
Speaker
And, you know, a lot of stuff come from the Lord of the Rings, which in turn, a lot of the Lord of the Rings comes from Norse mythology. And especially the Nibelung, the Ring Saga.
00:16:00
Speaker
Mm hmm. Tolkien was really into Norse mythology in it. The Lord of the Rings saga is completely like covered in Norse mythology stuff. And I kind of take that as well. We get down to it. One of the main reasons that I went with Norse mythology is I don't know much about the D&D pantheon of gods and goddesses. Mm hmm.
00:16:30
Speaker
But I know Norse and I'm like, okay, I'll just make all the gods Norse. Yeah. We'll just go off that a little bit out of late laziness. I tend to be kind of lazy, but once I kind of latch onto something, I go all in. Well, you know, the Pantheon's written for me. I'll just use that. Good enough. See, as a storyteller, I'm a big believer in things like.
00:16:53
Speaker
Necessity is the mother of invention and limits help us get more creative. Absolutely. And applied here, like if your sole area of theological expertise in terms of D&D, if you don't have the names of all the fiends and dragons and half angels and whatnot memorized, and you're a lot more comfortable,
00:17:19
Speaker
with the Norse mythology, I don't know if Pantheon is the correct term, but being able to use those for your own storytelling feels like a really smart choice. I mean, you've already produced and released more than 40 episodes of Skald, so it's clear that you're not exactly like hurting for creativity,
00:17:41
Speaker
or for material that you can make clay with, you know? Next week, we is our 52nd episode, our one year anniversary. Oh, wow. Yeah, we're actually and just speaking of that, we're we're switching to like
00:17:59
Speaker
streaming the recording of it on Twitch and stuff. So really excited there. We've done a lot in a year and yet it doesn't feel like a year. It's very eerie. The time just flies by, yeah. Absolutely. We've been working on anywhere but now
00:18:19
Speaker
for, it feels like a year at least.
Storytelling Techniques in Role-Playing Games
00:18:23
Speaker
And that's just like the planning stages and the casting and finding the right table and running a session zero so that you can kick the tires on the chemistry and everything before we get to the places of like, okay, now we actually have some things put together. We can start putting content together. We can start recording episodes and I'll be honest,
00:18:48
Speaker
Having seen what you have put together, not only on your YouTube, but also the following you've got on Discord has been an inspiration. Oh, thank you. Because you're welcome. There's something really refreshing about watching storytelling unfold with visual effects you've put into place, but without making them the star of the show. They're just there to facilitate your storytelling.
00:19:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely the balance we we try to strike. You know, like I said, our backgrounds are animated, but it's very subtle and stuff like that. We just try to we focus on the story that was our plan from the very beginning. You know, you were talking about like all the work you went through before you even started recording. I think we had three to four months of pre-production.
00:19:35
Speaker
that involved me actually writing the campaign, which I'm still writing it. I'm one of those that just, I started with a very high view of what the campaign was gonna be. I mean, between us, I haven't even made all the villages in either of the continents. I mean, I just do it as I go. I'm like, okay, they're gonna go over here probably within a month. I should probably actually make that. Yeah, that would probably be good.
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah, it'd probably be good for them to have something worth discovering over in that neck of the woods. Yeah, yeah. It's just that outline that I have certain story beats and I have a plan all the way to like level 20. It'll probably be another year before scalds over at least. And let me tell you, I am one that loves, obviously loves sharing cool ideas with friends and strangers.
00:20:33
Speaker
Otherwise, why would I be doing this? But it is the most difficult thing in the world, I have found being an actual play DM that likes sharing these cool ideas because I can't share it with anyone. I have crazy ideas for down the road, like super bonkers. And I'm really excited to tell literally anyone, but anyone that would actually care or understand either watches the show or is part of it. And I'm like, man,
00:21:04
Speaker
that is that is an encumbrance that is that is difficult i got lucky my partner and spouse has gotten used to me brainstorming and kicking the tires on ideas and just you know letting things flow but yeah no it's important to have at least one other person to bounce ideas off of so that you're not creating just strictly in a vacuum
00:21:29
Speaker
There's a wonderful player and artist and book binder. Her name is Kitty. She was on one of my Doctor Who tables for
00:21:40
Speaker
a couple of mods when we started putting anywhere but now together and they had a full plate. I asked them if they would mind if I bounced ideas off of them from time to time. Right. Because when you find someone with a similar sense of humor and someone with a similar sense of, oh, that particular story beat is really cool.
00:22:01
Speaker
when you find someone whose mind works similarly to yours, but not quite the same, and like, yeah, no, there is potential there for brainstorming, there is room for, if not collaboration,
00:22:16
Speaker
Because again, they have a full plate already, right? But just you know a laboratory of exploring ideas. Oh Just just the ability to bounce ideas off of someone that can comprehend what you're you know, telling them that's invaluable Absolutely
00:22:33
Speaker
Luckily, I started hanging out with DM Dave from the Careful Can Trip podcast and love a shout out. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to them. It's a great show. Not too dissimilar from ours, but I originally went to him for advice about, you know, an actual play. They're more successful than us. We were seeing stagnation and fighting burnout and stuff, but
00:22:55
Speaker
I went to him and just for advice, and then I found myself eventually dumping a half of the secrets that I've been holding up in my head. And his main response was like, that sounds awesome. And I'm like, yeah, sorry about just spewing all that out. I've been holding that in for a while. Thank you for not telling me to shut up. Yeah, no, it can be really difficult to keep stuff bottled up, especially creative beats.
00:23:25
Speaker
that you were just champing at the bit to get out and share with people. But that's the other thing, the delayed gratification of like, oh, yeah, just take your time.
00:23:38
Speaker
You'll get there when you get there. Oh, yeah. I took and scald, you know, it started out kind of slow and stuff. And my campaigns always have what I call the turn, which is, you know, they're going about their normal life. Then the turn happens. And that's when the adventure starts. Something changes in the world.
00:23:58
Speaker
We took 10 episodes to get to the freaking turn in Skald before finally all hell broke loose and I had been practicing narrating that turn event for about two months prior and when it happened and just seeing the reactions and I had to like pace myself because I was excited I just wanted to spew it all out at once but
00:24:23
Speaker
just seeing their reaction of that like rollout of, yeah, everything's fine. Snap. Everything is hell. It was so gratifying. Question for you. This story beat the turn when things got darker and more difficult for your players.
00:24:42
Speaker
Between the version you rehearsed and practiced and what actually made it to the table, how much of a difference was there between the living document, the outline that you've been working on for months and months, and the actual performance of, okay, these characters whom I cannot fully predict
00:25:01
Speaker
or anticipate have gotten here at their own tempo in their own way and might have actually smashed through certain walls that might have been load bearing. How did it play out for you? How did you find it different from what you expected in your head?
00:25:14
Speaker
Surprisingly enough, it wasn't that different. The main problem I had, you know, without giving too much away, essentially they were in a city and then suddenly all hell broke loose in that city. And I was like, I needed them in a certain place. What they ended up doing was they had just finished a mission retrieving an item, a MacGuffin. Coming back to the city to return it when all hell breaks loose and they end up with that MacGuffin.
00:25:43
Speaker
They were being very careful with the MacGuffin. They decided that the rogue that was very good at disguise would take the MacGuffin, leave for the city separately and do his disguise so that even they didn't know who he was. And I'm like, oh, OK. You know, the rest of them are like exactly where I need them to be. And the other guys a ways off. And I'm like, you're following them, man, right? Yeah. OK.
00:26:13
Speaker
It's the worst place. You're putting something back. I love it. Exactly. Luckily, it worked out. He didn't end up too far from where I needed him. But as far as their reactions and stuff, they were very, you know, I go through this long narration of what's going on and I kind of stun them. And really, the only difference from the way I pictured it is, you know, them being like, I want to do something right now. I want to do something right now. I'm like, you're in the middle of a cutscene. Hang on. Hmm.
00:26:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Cutscenes can be wonderful. They can also be a bit of a two edged sword. Right. With a background of playing video games and this I won't call it training, but there's this expectation nowadays of once you have finished a level, cleared a dungeon, beaten a boss or leveled up. In some cases, there's some kind of sequence
00:27:08
Speaker
Well, this is the next beat of the story before your character takes over again and blah blah blah. I have gotten further away from those as I've gotten more in tune with my players.
00:27:24
Speaker
Right. Like I've been running games of Doctor Who for over a decade. And with my own background in voice acting and audio mixing, I've been able to put together those cut scenes just like you're talking about where the characters have just accomplished a thing or snuck into a new room or third thing. Right. You know, just like, OK, stand by, click, make sure the volume's up high enough. And then a sequence will start where they have little to no autonomy.
00:27:54
Speaker
Right. I have tried to pull back on those as much as I can. Not because I don't enjoy them. I love a good cutscene. Especially if there's like just some particular beat with a death ray attached, you know.
00:28:10
Speaker
But I've also found myself relying on them less and trading them off more for very short interactions that the characters don't have an impact around. And they're usually around a transformation sequence or a cliffhanger.
00:28:29
Speaker
where in both cases the prevailing wisdom is the heroes are so shocked and stunned by what they are witnessing that they can take no action immediately. Exactly. And that works. That can be a great beat to hook an ending on, but if it's coming at the end of the first act,
00:28:51
Speaker
then you really need to figure out, well, just how much agency am I taking away from my players? How much autonomy am I cutting out of there? Because my spouse and I have been rewatching David Tennant's tenure as the 10th Doctor. Classic. There's this wonderful beat in Tooth and Claw, where an alien timey-wimey version of a werewolf has started the painful, shocking, terrifying transformation sequence.
00:29:19
Speaker
And the locals, their jaws are on the floor. They're quivering and screaming and whatever. And then Rose is like, we do not have time for this. We are jammed to the wall. Everybody focus up. Pull. Yeah, there's definitely a fine line between railroading, of course, is a bad word, but it depends on what you mean by it. The real badness of railroading, like you said, is taking away agency.
00:29:45
Speaker
There's definitely a fine line between, you know, I need to get this story beat out, sort of uninterrupted with exactly the way I want it to versus just controlling your players for you. The route I went with that specific one, the turn was, and it makes sense with the story because basically, I mean, the turn was considered like new Ragnarok and it started with
00:30:12
Speaker
a machine doing a very loud ear piercing horn. And I basically made it so that, you know, everyone has to cover their ears, drop to their knees and are essentially paralyzed. Oh, that's smart. Everybody give me an auditory constitution check.
00:30:30
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So I kind of built it into the mechanics. And granted, I didn't give them a save or anything, but I made it so that it kind of tied in with the story, you know, with it being the gala horn, it was, you know, that's the start of Ragnarok is the horn going off and just the panic everywhere. And I just wanted it to be one of those scenes, like you said, just like in a video game and
00:30:56
Speaker
I really do structure my campaigns like video games. The first 10 episodes were essentially training levels and stuff like that. Level grinding. Yeah, exactly. Essentially, the way I designed it was the first 10 episodes up until the turn were pretty scripted as far as what happens, what they need to do, where they need to go.
00:31:20
Speaker
And then as soon as the turn happened, that's when I was like, okay, so now what do you guys want to do? It's all up to you. Just like in a video game, once you finish the tutorial, the world's open. Where you going? What you doing?
00:31:38
Speaker
You've got this whole sandbox to play in. It's up to you now. And I gave them a suggested route, you know, of, you know, what they should do and where they should go to sort of figure out what the heck happened during the turn. And I gave them sort of enticement for that. But other than that, you know, if they were like, no, I want to I want to head to the ocean, head to the southern continent, I'm like, OK, I'll figure that out. Sure.
00:32:08
Speaker
Okay, yeah, we'll do that instead.
00:32:11
Speaker
I do want to talk about your team.
Team Dynamics and Player Development
00:32:15
Speaker
So we've got Emmy playing Niferim, Josh playing Sidorik, Eric playing Gendry, and Sam as Marcus, this one-track mind paladin of Thor. I wanted to ask you, did you help your team build their PCs? Were you guys friends first? Did you meet them putting the table together? Did they come fully formed? What has all this been like?
00:32:40
Speaker
So our sort of origin story was, as I mentioned before, I started my, you know, my first D&D campaign with friends and I was at work telling, you know, my work friends like, oh, yeah, I just started this D&D. It's awesome. And one of my coworkers was actually my supervisor was who's Josh was like,
00:33:04
Speaker
Oh, I'm in a D&D campaign, want to see if you can join mine? And I'm like, yep, yep, yes, yes. And Eric, and Eric was the, is the DM, we're still playing through that campaign. Eric's the DM of that campaign.
00:33:19
Speaker
And so they brought me in and I started playing with them and we were hanging out, having fun. And then Emmy ended up joining. Emmy's my wife. She ended up joining and playing along and we were having a bunch of fun. And then one day Eric messaged Emmy and I and was like, Hey, would you guys be interested in doing like an actual play and like recording this? Cause I think we have a lot of fun.
00:33:46
Speaker
And we were like, we love making videos and stuff. So yes. And also that sounds awesome. So yes. And then we're like, okay. Yeah. So we're essentially the three of us are the producers and we're the ones with video experience. Brilliant.
00:34:04
Speaker
And we sat down and discussed what we wanted out of this. Like, we decided we just want to have some fun and entertain some people. If it makes money, cool. If not, whatever. We just want to entertain. We decided we wanted to focus on the storytelling and stuff like that. We wanted to focus on role playing rather than, you know, the mechanics and everything.
00:34:26
Speaker
Once we decided all that, then we started literally interviewing our friends to be a part of the show. We had, you know, we'd have a literal interview where we're like, we gave them the expectation, you know, it's got to be role play heavy because the campaign we were doing, it wasn't a lot of role playing, you know, it's just friends like hanging out, having fun and beating orcs over the head with hammers. Like one does.
00:34:53
Speaker
Exactly. And we're like, you need to focus on storytelling and the emotion, that kind of stuff. If that's not what you're willing to do, then that you're not, you know, you're not for this, the show's not for you. We interviewed Josh and he was totally down and loved the role playing aspect and he got on board and then we were interviewed a couple others, but then we got to Sam and Sam was a
00:35:21
Speaker
a curious character just because Sam's pretty shy and when we were playing in the home campaign with him it was almost no role-playing he's just like he's a wizard so of course he's just like yeah i'm just gonna fireball okay cool and then you know i just want to go do this okay i'm doing that now
00:35:41
Speaker
he showed interest and when we interviewed him we're like this is gonna be role-playing are you sure that's what you want to do and he's like no i'm totally down i i want to do this we're like okay we'll give it a shot and then we did three
00:35:56
Speaker
Session zero encounters, including a tech rehearsal on the third one, where we essentially recorded it like a show, making sure everyone's systems are up and doing everything that they would during the show. We had a bunch of fun. Everything worked out.
00:36:13
Speaker
And so we started playing, you know, recording. And if you watch those first few episodes, Sam's pretty quiet and reserved. I mean, it was a running joke when we first started that all he would do is say, indeed. It's like, does everyone want to like go to this village? And he's just like, indeed. OK, thank you, sir.
00:36:38
Speaker
You're not an under five you can say more than five lines here. Yep. Yep But as one thing that's kind of I love seeing and I'm really proud of him because he's come out of his shell He's a very private person
00:36:53
Speaker
and like I said very shy but as the story progressed like at this point a year in he's interacting he's part of every bit he's always got something to say he's starting conversations the first time he started a conversation with another character I was like oh who's this guy this is awesome
00:37:14
Speaker
It was, it was very surprising, but awesome. Like just seeing him come out of his shell, cause he's a very fun guy, but if he doesn't know you very well, then he's just going to shut up and mind his own business. It's just the kind of guy he is. So it's, it's been really fascinating seeing him evolve and seeing his character evolve.
00:37:36
Speaker
Like you said, it started out pretty one-dimensional, but as the story progresses, it's been getting more and more in-depth, and he's starting to show more and more sort of emotions and stuff like that. You can kind of tie it into, well, maybe that's kind of how his character was. He didn't know these other people that he's adventuring with. They were just thrown together, and he's had this crazy life, so why would he be all chummy-chummy with these absolute strangers that he doesn't even know what they want?
00:38:05
Speaker
No, absolutely. Maybe Marcus the Paladin has his walls up for a reason. Exactly.
Therapeutic Benefits of Tabletop Gaming
00:38:11
Speaker
Now, you've written that you find the tabletop, and I'm going to expand that larping as well, can be a form of therapy and expression that can't be found elsewhere. Absolutely. Can you expand on that for our listeners?
00:38:28
Speaker
Yeah, I've found it fascinating since starting playing Tabletop. How much I've learned about myself. My first character, his name was Slick James. He was a, um, a Arcane Trickster, rogue slash bard of, was it School of Eloquence? He was a con man. He would lie about everything, didn't trust anyone, would play tricks on the other players just to have fun, uh, stuff like that. And kind of a jerk.
00:38:58
Speaker
And I realized sort of after playing him for a while, oh, that was James's younger me. Like when I was a teenager, holy cow, I was a jerk. I was such a jerk as a kid. Just didn't care what anyone- Do you care most of us were jerks? Oh, absolutely. Kids are jerks. I mean, I love them, but kids are jerks. Come on. It was interesting after playing James for a while, thinking back about what makes James James
00:39:28
Speaker
and suddenly realizing and recognizing, oh, that's all the stuff I used to do that I got rid of when I became an adult. And not to get too into it, but there was a point in my life where I was really down and depressed. And I just I took like a year to sort of analyze myself, find what I didn't like about me and work to make changes to be a better person, stop being a jerk.
00:39:56
Speaker
And I'm like, James is me before that. And then I get the bonus of well, now I get to role play his evolution, like starting to trust people, starting to care about other people.
00:40:12
Speaker
It sounds silly, but the first time he equipped a healing spell was a big deal, because he's like, I don't care about healing people. I'm here to wreck stuff, whatever. But suddenly he's like, his friend went down and he's like, oh no, I care. Uh oh. Oh, I've never done this before. I've never cared. What do I do? And just looking back.
00:40:35
Speaker
Looking back at that moment and being like, I remember that moment in my life when I started caring what people thought and, you know, caring about the people around me and stop being self-centered. And it's a really good way to take certain aspects of yourself, whether you like those aspects or don't, and just exploring what they mean.
00:40:58
Speaker
safely, where they come from. Yes, safely in a literal sandbox environment that can't harm the rest of your life. And just exploring your insecurities, where they come from, why are you the way you are? And just playing that out with other people, like you said, safely, where it won't hurt them. Like, you can make fun of a player's character as your character,
00:41:26
Speaker
and they know you're not making fun of them, you're making fun of the character. And it's not you, it's your character. So it's like this proxy. That's the perfect word for it. Of yourself. Yeah, exactly. It's a proxy of yourself and you're sort of experimenting with it. Like, what if this sort of facet of my personality did this? How would people react?
00:41:54
Speaker
And then you just do it in game and see how the other players react. And you're like, OK, well, now I know what that means. It's fascinating that the deep how deep you can dive into your own personality.
00:42:11
Speaker
just by playing a game and rolling dice. Absolutely. There's a line from an episode of Sherlock about how every disguise is ultimately a self-portrait. Yeah. And I think a lot of overlap is resonant with a character that we adopt, a role we play, whether it's around a table or if we're larping.
00:42:35
Speaker
Because even when we're making the conscious decision to veer away from, well I'm so-and-so, I want to play something that's different for me, we still end up embodying parts of our own psyche with the same issues to work through or stumble over or ignore and have those consequences in a made-up arena.
00:43:00
Speaker
I remember playing a vampire in Requiem, LARPing, probably about eight, 10 years ago, and had just finished playing a PC who was quick and charming and on his feet and got along. And that had been fun to play a character without my personal hang ups. Exactly. Around meeting new people and just able to have a good time and whatnot and let people let their guard down.
00:43:30
Speaker
And that was really interesting, but then I wanted to try something different. I was like, okay, what if we played an absolute monster? What if we played someone whose idea of a good time was making you scream?
00:43:43
Speaker
and not in pleasure, but in pain and fear, the Nosferatu, without any of the illusions of nicety. And hindsight, 100%, hindsight, like I was I did not know I was working through some things or attempting to work through some things at the time.
00:44:01
Speaker
Right. But Gerhart had his own walls up, and people were still fascinated by this creature that made absolutely no compunctions whatsoever about what he was good at, what he responded to, and the way that he fed. Right. While still, you know, very loosely upholding the masquerade, etc.
00:44:26
Speaker
But the characters around him that bothered to climb over those walls, the ones that actually decided to get to know the man inside of the monster, the poet inside of the sadist, those PC relationships, those bonds felt really special, you know? Oh, yeah. And in hindsight, my own
00:44:50
Speaker
penchant for formality, for being polite, not only as a matter of course, but also as a means of keeping people at a distance. Because if I'm being polite, I'm not being personal. While I still use politeness as a show of respect, because I do, I want my first impression with people to be one of someone who's got their shit together and knows how to pay other grownups.
00:45:18
Speaker
their due respect. Sure. Whether or not those grown ups have any self-respect to put on display, let alone respect for others, is entirely up to them. Right. But letting go of some of the pressure of like, oh, I have to be polite enough for both of us. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man, I'd say I let my hair down, but I don't have any. I literally shave it all off. It's liberating, though, right?
00:45:44
Speaker
It really is. It really is. People with hair on their heads don't know what they're missing. The sun on a warm day, the breeze on your scalp when it blows past, or rain on a bald pate feels wonderful. Can't recommend it enough.
00:46:00
Speaker
No, it's it is liberating though like uh letting that's kind of another aspect like not just diving into your your own sort of you know psychosis but also letting go of certain psychoses like like i said my first character was he was always this you know had to be the wittiest in the room the smartest in the room no like
00:46:24
Speaker
Nobody could, you know, outsmart him and stuff like that. And then my second character that I play in Eric's campaign, I'm like, I'm going the exact opposite because they needed a healer. And I'm like, OK, what I'm going to do is I'm going to make literally the opposite of James. So I made Bud and Bud is a druid cleric elf.
00:46:51
Speaker
that is a stoner. He sounds like Tommy Chung, man. And he all he wants to do is help. That's all he wants to do. Like, Eric, you know, when I was giving him my character, he's like, all right, what's what's Bud's goals? And I'm like, helping, just helping. He doesn't have any grand plan of the world or whatever. He just wants to help people.
00:47:16
Speaker
And then, you know, when I was building out the character, I realized shortly after I was done with them, I was like, oh, I didn't ask Eric how much gold I would get. And then it was at that moment that I was like, Bud will never have gold. James was all about gold. He would do heists, you know, he would pickpocket people just for funsies and gain wealth.
00:47:38
Speaker
Bud will never have gold. I am never, I want to play a character where I don't even think about gold. Like a vow of poverty. Yeah, it's like, he doesn't care about getting rich. He doesn't care about wealth. He just cares about helping people. And if it's by saving the world, awesome. If it's by
00:48:00
Speaker
you know, helping an innocent person on the side of the road, just as awesome. And like one of the things that I made that interesting was I decided he'd be gullible. Again, the opposite of James, just completely gullible. Trusting. He'd believe anything. Yeah, he'd believe like, why would anyone lie to me? That'd just be, you know, kind of a jerk move. Why would anyone do that? He it doesn't occur to him.
00:48:29
Speaker
And then next thing you know, like there was a time when there was someone like he heard screams of a child over a cliff edge. And while the others are like and there was a guy like kind of watching over the edge of the cliff. And while the others are like, wait, what's that guy doing? Bud was like, nope, I'm jumping over the edge and going after that that kid. Absolutely. It ended up being a trap.
00:48:55
Speaker
but it was really fun just kind of exploring what if I didn't care about myself at all and just cared about helping and everyone else's health and happiness and it was again I started learning about myself how much I enjoyed just helping people out
00:49:14
Speaker
and stuff like that. It was another aspect of myself that I ended up learning more about and learning how to handle it and how to handle people. It's the best therapy in the world. Let us make a point of saying that neither Steve nor I are licensed therapists.
00:49:31
Speaker
Correct. Boilerplate is everyone's friend.
00:49:48
Speaker
That said, I am a big proponent of therapy and stuff. I mean, if you're having trouble, seek help. There is no shame in it. Absolutely. Therapy is wonderful. Even if you're relatively healthy, just having like mentally, just having someone to talk to that will actually listen because not everybody has friends that actually listen.
00:50:09
Speaker
Yeah, but your friends shouldn't also be your sole source of mental health balance. Absolutely. I know that therapy has had a stigma around it for decades of like only people who are weak.
00:50:25
Speaker
need help. It's a shame. Only people who are troubled need therapy and I could not disagree more. Therapy is about maintenance. Therapy is about repair. Therapy is about mental health for the mentally healthy. I see a therapist twice a month and thoroughly enjoy, I don't know, I won't say enjoy the process, but like I
00:50:51
Speaker
See you there. Enjoy the results. The results, sure. Like it helps me gain perspective. It helps me process feelings. It helps me unravel confusion around different feelings that may or may not have anything to do with each other, but they have become entwined and entangled over years of misunderstandings, years of misconceptions about myself, et cetera. And yeah, no, I could not be a more positive proponent that therapy is good and good for you.
00:51:21
Speaker
Same. Absolutely the same. Everyone needs maintenance. Even a well-running Ferrari still needs the oil change. Thank you. Thank you. There's no difference. Exactly.
00:51:35
Speaker
Granted, a tabletop arena is not necessarily the place to defend the merits of finding a therapist, but there are a lot of options out there. Just gonna say that. But I would like to circle back to how roleplay, both tabletop and larping,
00:51:53
Speaker
can be a wonderful practice for interacting with other people. You can try on what it sounds like to be confident. You can try what you think feels like if you were going to attempt to be funny. You can work out how it feels to be in a dynamic with someone for the first time or the hundredth.
00:52:14
Speaker
Because even pretending to work hard at something with other people will build those ties of we have worked hard on something together. Absolutely. Absolutely. Learning the social dynamics in teamwork. No one 5E character class can do everything. No. Except maybe Druid, but that doesn't count.
00:52:40
Speaker
I love playing a druid, jeez. Everything takes teamwork and you learn that sort of dynamic of how to bounce ideas off of people, how to understand the relationships between not only friends but
00:52:58
Speaker
teammates, coworkers, stuff like that, how to understand where others are coming from. You know, a lot of people will do during tabletop role-playing, they'll express their inner monologue. They'll be like, well, you know, my character's acting this way because he's thinking this or so and so.
00:53:17
Speaker
And even that is just an insight into that is the thought process people are going through when they act certain ways.
Life Skills and Personal Growth through Gaming
00:53:27
Speaker
And then you can even compare that with your own. And do I like think before I talk or, you know, think before I act? The answer to that is no for me, but whatever.
00:53:39
Speaker
Well, I think there is something to it about how role playing can be good practice for socializing in the real world. Absolutely. There can be a real issue with things like talking over other people. And so you've got like a room full of people where everyone's trying to talk at once and nothing is actually being reached. And if you can actually take a second and realize, OK, wait, we're not all the sole protagonist of this adventure. We are an ensemble.
00:54:09
Speaker
What if I take a breath and actually make some room in the conversation for someone else to make a contribution and then we can riff off that together, you know? Absolutely. I agree completely. It's learning.
00:54:24
Speaker
how to be a person, how to be a good person and socialize. Honestly, I firmly believe that tabletop games should be taught in school. I have learned more about socializing and social dynamics in role-playing games and watching role-playing games than I ever did in school.
00:54:49
Speaker
I it's it's good therapy. It's good socializing. It's how to work together. It's problem solving. It's strategizing. It's everything you need as an adult in life in a game. And it gamifies it.
00:55:07
Speaker
you know you you literally you do it well you know you work well with others and you'll be rewarded with loot and leveling it's gamifying literally life you're practicing living it's everything you need
00:55:22
Speaker
They should teach it in schools. I do think there's some wisdom to that. Like we spend so much of our energy at school just trying to fit in and making sure our grades are good enough and hoping that, you know, we present as something approaching normal or if we have confidence in ourselves abnormal.
00:55:45
Speaker
in school and get criticized for that, get picked on for that. And worse, at a time in our lives when we're feeling our squishiest, our most vulnerable, our most, I don't know what the hell I am or who I am or what I want, a game where we can practice, where we can try on these roles and see how they bump up against other people also trying on roles possibly for the first time.
00:56:11
Speaker
can be educational. I think there's a big reason why a lot of first-time players are teenagers and adolescents. Oh, yeah. We're just spreading those imaginary wings for the first time of like, oh, this is what independence feels like. This is what choice feels like. OK. You mean I can do anything? Yeah, anything. Like anything, anything? Yeah, absolutely. Like anything?
00:56:39
Speaker
Well, you know, we want to respect the personal space and safety of our other PCs. Right. Goblins, not so much. Oh yeah, no, screw them. Orcs, right out. Just...
00:56:54
Speaker
But I do think there is something to it because as a communal device, the story, the ability to put yourself into someone else's shoes so that you can learn their lessons, experience their feelings, share in their catharsis.
00:57:11
Speaker
you know, blowing up the Death Star, swinging across the ravine with the princess in your arms, yelp, making the smirk and shooting first under the table. But having a story where you can play a part and have those emotional experiences that you might not get working at a cubicle for 40 plus hours a week or experiencing those kinds of sensations, they can provide a more well-rounded experience.
00:57:41
Speaker
just like you said. Right. You can literally learn how to live through tabletop and the game rewards you for doing those things right. Like you said, it's a good practice in how to socialize and all that.
00:57:59
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Very much so. And it's fun. And it's fun. And it's... Well, I hope so. First and foremost, it is a game. Games should be fun and we should feel safe in the playing of them. I am a big fan of tools like lines and veils. Yeah. And checking in with my character, with my players on a semi-regular basis
00:58:24
Speaker
if things are going to get too scary, if things are going to go in a particular direction. When we were just starting out with anywhere but now, I checked with my players about how comfortable they were being around a pregnant NPC.
00:58:42
Speaker
And there had to be some clarifications of like, no, they are not pregnant with a parasite. No, the birth will not kill them. No, it is very unlikely that you yourself will be called on to help deliver the child. And none of these things actually happened. Right. I made the choice of including a pregnant woman as a character because there was on a thematic level an idea that was about to be given birth.
00:59:08
Speaker
And having someone who is physically, literally pregnant in the story, I felt helped put us in the mindset of, oh, something important is just about to start. And having that in the back of the mind made it more effective storytelling. But at the same time, I wanted to make sure I checked in with my PC players ahead of time to make sure that they weren't going to be uncomfortable or put out of source.
00:59:37
Speaker
or anything like that by the presence of a character like that. I mean trust especially in any social interaction but especially with something where you're opening yourself up mentally and emotionally as much as you do in role-playing. Trust is absolutely the most important thing and in order to you know have trust you need to make sure everyone's on the same page.
01:00:04
Speaker
Yes. I had a similar thing with Skuld where I was writing and I came up with an idea that involved self-harm. Basically someone did something for the big bad without realizing what they did that caused, you know, the death of tens of thousands of people and they couldn't handle it. And before
01:00:29
Speaker
a couple weeks before the session i kind of called a meeting of all the players and was like so here's what i'm thinking i want to know how you guys you know feel about including this in the story not just if you feel comfortable with this topic in the game but also do you feel comfortable having it on the channel hmm
01:00:53
Speaker
And I explained that it was a good motivation and way to, of course, hate the big bad and understand the impact that the big events, the, you know, the villains events have had on the individual people and the people that are involved.
01:01:10
Speaker
But also, I've had friends that have had issues with self-harm. I've been there as well, and I saw it as well as a chance to sort of bring it up to the audience.
01:01:31
Speaker
trigger warning. We did a warning at the beginning. We talked about at the end, we included all the hotline links and stuff like that. I saw it as doubling as a chance to talk about this thing that no one wants to talk about, but lots and lots of people
01:01:47
Speaker
struggle with. And a lot of those people are afraid to talk about it. Because it's a taboo, because there's a stigma, because even admitting that you might be feeling weak in a certain area or feeling troubled or that you have additional burdens that are making it harder just to get day to day,
01:02:06
Speaker
absolutely it's i feel it's important to talk about those things that no one wants to talk about that are troubling people because they're not a lot of them won't do it themselves and i like i said before i started i
01:02:22
Speaker
I had to check in with everyone. Here's what I want to do. I gave him a vague outline of the event without spoiling too much of it. And then I gave him my reasoning, not only story-wise, but
01:02:39
Speaker
as I just said, like socially wise, you know, show wise. And I'll give it to all of them are like, absolutely. We'll take this seriously, right? Like this in all of them instantly. Oh, absolutely. No, there's no jokes around that very obviously. And I'm like, OK, we're all on the same page. That's exactly what I want and what I like to hear. And it ended up working out well. That's beautiful.
01:03:07
Speaker
Like if it's possible at a table of four to five people to openly discuss and say, Hey, we're going to be talking about some uncomfortable things here. We're going to be talking about some things that might feel potentially scary or uncomfortable. Let's make sure we're making room for everyone to feel safe and heard while we're talking about these things.
01:03:32
Speaker
I think is, again, wonderful practice for real life because it is scary out there and we don't see automatically what someone else is dealing with privately because we don't all come with character sheets on our backs that tell you what our mental
Addressing Sensitive Topics in Gaming
01:03:49
Speaker
constitution is and how many hit points we have in confidence today.
01:03:53
Speaker
Absolutely. And you can get into the details you know I kind of leading up to it I got into the details of they first talked to the the victim's wife and she was upset that you know something was wrong with her wife that you know she wouldn't talk about and
01:04:14
Speaker
the constant arguments, the kind of impact that those feelings and thoughts that one person can have, the impact that it ripples out to everyone you know and how it affects them. Yeah. And it's it feels good exploring that and kind of bringing that to bear rough as it can be for some people to hear that stuff.
01:04:38
Speaker
I just feel it's important to make sure everyone understands like if you know, you know, someone that is going through a bunch of stuff and they are acting differently or terribly towards other people or themselves or themselves. It may be time to talk with them and have that real talk or get them to get some help and stuff like that. Understand that they're not just being a jerk. You know, everyone's going through something.
01:05:08
Speaker
Everyone's always going through something. This is true. I think it is also worth mentioning that there are licensed therapists out there that use games and RPGs as part of their therapy. I have seen that. It's very good to hear.
01:05:26
Speaker
Yeah, I was on a panel last year, somewhere in September or October, talking as a writer about coping with loss. I had written a graphic novel about superheroes that had all lost their powers and were never going to get them back. Oh, wow. Rather than waiting for their powers to inevitably return in Act Three,
01:05:47
Speaker
They just had to deal with it right if they were injured They stayed injured and just started to heal slowly if you were trapped in the body of a chimpanzee You're stuck as a chimpanzee for the rest of your life Wow. Yeah
01:06:01
Speaker
And I was on a panel with therapists who were using games, like these storytelling, this interactive story that their patients and their clients can tell and experience these feelings in a safe environment. Absolutely. Because just the fear, just the anticipation of, oh, I can't think about those things because there are too many
01:06:29
Speaker
hurty, spiky feelings wrapped around them like thorns that have grown up around a general store that you have to visit sooner or later. And if we can approach those feelings, whether it's recreationally in a game or in a safe setting with a licensed therapist, you can have those experiences. You can feel those feelings.
01:06:55
Speaker
and understand that it's not the end of the world. Because even as we have these feelings, even as we experience these dark times where we think there is no hope, where we think there is no way out, look at the games. These people brave into dungeons filled with dragons and orcs and gelatinous cubes, and they come out the other side.
01:07:17
Speaker
And they do it because they don't Leroy Jenkins in without thinking first. They actually go in with a plan and say, if you get hurt, our healer will be there for you. Teamwork. If you stumble, our tank will get in front of you and absorb those hits. Absolutely. That teamwork, that collaboration, that relying on each other
01:07:40
Speaker
by bringing your best to each other and saying, you are relying on me to do a thing and act a certain way, I will be that thing and act that certain way here. You can rely on me to do my part and we will get out of this together. We will get through this together. Absolutely. Teamwork makes the dream work. It's not no one person can just like in D&D, you know, in life, no one person can do everything.
01:08:09
Speaker
You will not do absolutely everything in your life yourself. No. You shouldn't try. You gotta find the people that can help you do what you need to do and in turn you can help them do what they need to do.
01:08:24
Speaker
It can be difficult to admit. It can be difficult approaching, admitting, hey, I can't do everything myself. Hey, I cannot juggle a dozen different responsibilities putting a show together. I can only do so much as a working writer, as a husband, as a apartment renter. Yeah, yeah.
01:08:47
Speaker
and owner of two cats and the dutiful son-in-law, etc. We wear so many different hats. We have so many different roles that we play.
01:08:58
Speaker
whether or not there's overlap and there usually is a lot of overlap. Yeah. It's really nice to know that something as simple as a D&D table is there where we can have a simpler experience and maybe work off some aggression. Smashing through a couple of dungeon levels of orcs and goblins with our enchanted hammer.
01:09:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah, absolutely. After like the longest, you know, week of work, just going over to a friend's house with some Doritos and dice and just whomping a lich. It's so satisfying. You as soon as you dive into that world, you just forget all your troubles, you know, like going through like a rough breakup or something.
01:09:49
Speaker
Don't think about that right now. You got a dragon to slay. You got the world to save. You gotta go save the king. You can put your attention on something else for a couple of hours. And get that good, heroic feeling of you accomplish something after a week of lack of accomplishments.
01:10:11
Speaker
Even though it doesn't mean anything in the real world, it's just as satisfying. Not only is it satisfying, but we can use that practice and apply it. Absolutely. The confidence that we have as a level 10 Paladin could
01:10:31
Speaker
be borrowed by our actual selves. There's this wonderful book called The Alter Ego Effect. In it, basically boiled down, if you can adopt the headspace of a fictional character that you relate to, you can borrow the skills or the mindset of that character to do a thing that you personally don't think you could ever do. Absolutely. Absolutely agree with it.
01:11:00
Speaker
Like, I've used it in my own life to some levels of success. Like, Casey knows on some level how to break down a big scary project into a to-do list, even if I don't always feel like I have the spoons for something like that, or I don't even know where to begin.
01:11:22
Speaker
blah, blah, blah. Or if I have one of those days where I'm feeling depressed and low on myself and like, I don't even know where to get started. And then that's when I can tap into someone like the Victor, a criminal mastermind who has confidence and unshakable belief in my ability to accomplish the things I set out for myself to do.
01:11:45
Speaker
Therefore, step one is simply to break it down into steps. We know we have to accomplish a certain amount of things today. You know what those things are. Don't see the forest, look at the trees, and then break out the chain.
01:12:04
Speaker
absolutely just applying that little bit of ruthlessness to oh wait no i know what i really need to do let's cut through the bullshit let's actually focus on the thing instead of our feelings that may be wrapped up around the thing and do what is going to help us get further
01:12:20
Speaker
before tomorrow absolutely it's you just you find aspects of whether it be your hero in the in the game or someone else or someone in a book or show or something just finding those aspects that you know you're watching them do something in a certain way and you're like i want to beat that
01:12:43
Speaker
How do I beat that? And just learning, learning those skills and sort of techniques of how to deal with the crud that you can't really deal with. Right. Because we can only do so much at once. Yep. We are at last only human. Absolutely. Never. Even if we enjoy playing a dwarf sometime. Yeah. Yeah. Dwarf is cool.
01:13:10
Speaker
Although I always go elves just because I like the four-hour long rest. I don't know. That's gotta be good. That's gotta be nice. I wish I could get through a day with only a four-hour long rest. I know, right? I would get so much more dumb. Oh, man. Oh, my God. That'd be nice. Why can't I be an elf?
01:13:28
Speaker
Why can't we? Steve, this has been absolutely delightful. Can you tell our listeners how they can get in touch with you, where they can find you? Absolutely. This has been a total pleasure, man. You can find us at Forge of Lore dot com. I'll take you straight to our YouTube. Like I said, actually, Thursday, the 17th, I don't know when this is airing, but is the premiere of us. It's our one year anniversary episode.
01:13:56
Speaker
And it's us recording live in front of the audience on Twitch. We're still doing the nice polished edit on YouTube every Wednesday, but you get to watch the behind the scenes. We called it the backstage pass.
01:14:13
Speaker
because it's just hanging out with us and watching us record. But we've also added stuff where you can interact, you can use channel points which are free to give advantage, disadvantage, even summon the gods to help out the group, either solve a problem or in battle.
01:14:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's gonna be super fun. Twitch.tv slash Forge of Lore. We got a Discord that is super fun. It's active every day. Just people hanging out. Discord.forgeoflore.com. Yeah, and we're on Insta and all that stuff, but you can find everything from ForgeOfLore.com.
01:14:56
Speaker
Beautiful. And finally, to our listeners, another great big thank you for sharing your precious time with us. If you feel it's been well spent, please share the joy of GMing with your friends who are looking to enjoy themselves. You can email your questions for me and our future guests and send that lovely fan art to anywherebutnowpodcastatgmail.com. And if you'd like me to run a game of Doctor Who for you, reach out on startplaying.games.
01:15:26
Speaker
Leave a review, rate the show, and follow us on Blue Sky, Twitter, and YouTube at anywhere but now and wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to join our Discord. Links to everything in the doobly-doo. From all of us, I'm Casey Jones. There's exciting things to come, my friends. I'm glad you're along for the ride. Thanks so much, and have a great day.