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Stay Sparked #52 "Alcohol Use"
11 Plays1 year ago
To drink or not to drink? Imbibing is a huge part of our culture. But how can we make sure that we are using chemicals as tools instead of crutches? We talk about our personal histories with drinking and share questions that can help us make sure we are making the best choices for ourselves.
MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
Stealing Fire: https://www.stevenkotler.com/book-pages/stealing-fire
Halcyon's Addiction Journey: https://youtu.be/oyKOQb_YsXo
HOSTS
BETSY FINKLEHOO is a healer of massage therapy, CranioSacral and Dharma Coaching. She is an 8 year burner and has spent the last several years seeped in the personal development world, cultivating her passion for transformation and growth. Her recent project, The Power Affirmation Journal and virtual group empowers women to cultivate self awareness and healthy habits so they can live in greater freedom, mind body and spirit.
http://poweraffirmation.com/
Click here to get a FREE affirmation for Stay Sparked Listeners!
HALCYON is full-time Love Ambassador. He is the founder of Hug Nation YouTube channel and daily zoom gratitude circles. He is co-founder of the Pink Heart Burning Man camp and the 1st Saturdays project for people experiencing homelessness. In his free time he coaches individuals on how to live joyfully and authentically. His other podcast is "Hard on the 80's."
http://JohnStyn.com
JANUS REDMOON is a 10-time Burner, and has spent the last several years as an advocate for psychedelic medicine research and treatment. He is the founder and CEO of NuWorld Nutritionals, a nutritional supplement company providing mushroom-based, all-natural products to improve and maintain health for both body and mind. (Use code "SPARKED" for 10% off)
http://www.nuworldnutritionals.com
MASSIVE Thank you to Dub Sutra for their beautiful opening music. Check out their incredible music catalogue online.
https://dubsutra.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Theme
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Stay Sparked.
00:00:04
Speaker
We are three longtime friends here to share inspiration with you, aim to light you up.
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm Betsy.
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm Halcyon.
00:00:13
Speaker
And I'm Giannis.
00:00:15
Speaker
On today's episode, we talk about intoxication.
00:00:18
Speaker
We talk about when can we know when a tool becomes a crutch?
00:00:22
Speaker
And how do we evolve our relationship with intoxicants to become the best version of ourselves?
00:00:29
Speaker
Enjoy the episode.
Gratitude & Flow State
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome to Stay Sparked.
00:00:33
Speaker
We like to start a broadcast with sparks of gratitude.
00:00:36
Speaker
So Betsy, what are you feeling gratitude for today?
00:00:40
Speaker
I am so grateful for my flow toys.
00:00:44
Speaker
I love flow toys.
00:00:46
Speaker
I do staff and flow flags and poi and hula hoop and some other fun toys.
00:00:52
Speaker
And I love them because they really give me a tool to access flow state.
00:00:58
Speaker
You know, flow state is such a powerful place to get into.
00:01:02
Speaker
And I tried to do my one of my flow toys at least once a day, even just for a few minutes.
00:01:07
Speaker
And it feels so good.
00:01:09
Speaker
So I just used my flow toys right before this.
00:01:11
Speaker
recording so i'm feeling in the flow and really grateful for that nice little little morning hula hoop session so that's pretty good i gotta get you one of those houses um you know guess what i'm doing below the screen that you can't see wow you're good you're good completely still on the top top up it's all happening down here um
00:01:34
Speaker
I am feeling gratitude today for my friends.
00:01:39
Speaker
I am finding a new place to live and I put out a call to my friends and communities, let them know, and I got a lot of instant feedback on all these leads and potentials and possibilities.
00:01:53
Speaker
And it was just another reminder that my friends are awesome.
00:01:57
Speaker
So thanks, friends.
00:01:59
Speaker
Yay.
00:02:00
Speaker
Love, friends.
00:02:02
Speaker
What you put out, you get back.
00:02:04
Speaker
That's right.
00:02:06
Speaker
My gratitude today is for my body.
00:02:10
Speaker
had about a two and a half month of experience with nerve pain that affected my back and my arm and my hand.
00:02:18
Speaker
And it was unlike anything I'd ever experienced in terms of the way I was debilitated, the way I was in it.
00:02:25
Speaker
I'd never had an experience of just pain that did not go away no matter what I did.
00:02:29
Speaker
And so I'm so grateful for the team of helpers and healers and doctors that have been working with me.
00:02:35
Speaker
And I'm just so grateful for the state of non-pain.
00:02:41
Speaker
It's like, I didn't realize how precious a non-pain moment was until there was no relief.
00:02:47
Speaker
And I hope I can hold onto this because the, the, the mind's desire, like, I need this.
00:02:54
Speaker
I need this to be happy after the pain.
00:02:56
Speaker
Like, I don't need anything to be happy.
00:02:58
Speaker
I just, the state of nothing is awesome.
00:03:02
Speaker
It's a really good reminder.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:04
Speaker
Yes.
Sobriety Journey
00:03:05
Speaker
Awesome.
00:03:05
Speaker
Halcyon.
00:03:08
Speaker
Well,
00:03:09
Speaker
Speaking of soothing pain, our topic today is intoxication and inebriation and the substances and chemicals and tools and sometimes poisons that we put into our bodies to have some effect.
00:03:30
Speaker
And
00:03:31
Speaker
I need to explain from the get-go that I am saying this after celebrating my one-year birthday yesterday free from ketamine, GHB, and alcohol.
00:03:43
Speaker
So a year ago, I had an unhealthy relationship to those things.
00:03:47
Speaker
Now I have an abstinent relationship with those things.
00:03:52
Speaker
But I do not have a, I don't want to villainize or demonize or judge any of those chemicals or any chemicals.
00:03:58
Speaker
You know, the substances are neutral and we build relationships with them.
00:04:04
Speaker
And so I think what we want to talk to you today is
00:04:07
Speaker
how in our culture, sometimes there's pressure around those things.
00:04:11
Speaker
Sometimes we can get caught up in those things.
Cultural Pressure of Alcohol
00:04:14
Speaker
How can we use them in positive ways?
00:04:16
Speaker
When can we know that we're using them in negative ways?
00:04:19
Speaker
And just maybe share a little bit of our personal experiences with how intoxication and inebriation has been a part of our lives.
00:04:28
Speaker
I am one who really thought that I had it.
00:04:34
Speaker
Let me think back.
00:04:35
Speaker
I had it all together.
00:04:36
Speaker
Like I consider myself like a professional drug user for a while and I handled my stuff.
00:04:42
Speaker
I was a good person in the world.
00:04:43
Speaker
I didn't miss appointments.
00:04:45
Speaker
And for years and years, I was totally at peace with the way I was using.
00:04:54
Speaker
It was a daily use and people who loved me had concern.
00:04:59
Speaker
But if you looked at my life, I was not a, you know, a addicted in the sense that it was affecting my life in a negative way.
00:05:07
Speaker
And so when people would say stuff like, oh, you're escaping and you're numbing things, I would be like, nope, I just have more fun.
00:05:16
Speaker
It's just, I just love it.
00:05:18
Speaker
And so it's been a really interesting journey for me after taking those things out of my life, realizing some of the ways it was affecting me that I didn't quite realize it.
00:05:29
Speaker
So now I'm stoked to be in this place where it's not a part of my life, but I still recognize that it can be an awesome tool.
00:05:37
Speaker
I just really want to acknowledge you first because it's a journey, you know, to have one year free of those substances that may have had a hold on you.
00:05:47
Speaker
for quite some time, it takes commitment, it takes devotion and dedication, and it's not easy always.
00:05:54
Speaker
Whether it is an intoxicant like you've mentioned, or a food or caffeine or other addictive substances,
00:06:04
Speaker
It really is a, it can be a challenge.
00:06:06
Speaker
So way to go.
00:06:07
Speaker
Congrats.
00:06:08
Speaker
I'm so happy for you.
00:06:10
Speaker
It's beautiful to be witness to you on your journey of sobriety and claiming that as you have been, you know, doing this for the last year.
00:06:18
Speaker
And we've all been on the journey right here with you because, you know, we've been doing this podcast for over a year.
00:06:24
Speaker
So we've watched you transform.
00:06:26
Speaker
And, you know, one of the things that really sparks for me in hearing you speak about it is around how
00:06:32
Speaker
you had your shit together, so you weren't numbing anything or running away from anything, quote unquote.
00:06:37
Speaker
But what I can see is it's almost like a veil has lifted, right?
00:06:42
Speaker
It's like you didn't maybe even know what you were missing out on until you lifted that veil and then things start to become more clear, right?
00:06:50
Speaker
I think that's a really big part of what happens with, especially with alcohol, because alcohol can tend to be like a cloud, right?
00:06:59
Speaker
especially if you're using it regularly, it can just make things a little more dim, more dull.
00:07:05
Speaker
You can't quite see the magic in the world or your problems for that matter.
00:07:10
Speaker
That's why a lot of times.
00:07:11
Speaker
That's the idea.
00:07:12
Speaker
Right, exactly.
Coping with Emotions
00:07:14
Speaker
People use alcohol to be able to kind of like deal with emotions.
00:07:18
Speaker
And so that's been a lot of my contemplations lately, especially in this conversation that we're in right now around
00:07:28
Speaker
how alcohol is so widely available in our culture.
00:07:32
Speaker
It's everywhere.
00:07:33
Speaker
It's, you know, social things revolve around it.
00:07:37
Speaker
It is very widely accepted.
00:07:40
Speaker
And it is, it seems like there is a correlation between our relationship to our emotional process, right?
00:07:47
Speaker
Because most of us, we're not really trained how to express our emotions in a healthy way as adults, right?
00:07:53
Speaker
And so,
00:07:55
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When something hard comes and it's like, oh, I have all these emotions.
00:07:58
Speaker
I don't really know what to do with them or how to express them in a healthy way.
00:08:03
Speaker
So I'm just going to go ahead and just drink something that helps me just kind of relax and not actually feel it and kind of let it go and forget about it.
00:08:12
Speaker
And it's just, you know, a way to be able to move through because...
00:08:16
Speaker
I'll give an example like for grieving, right?
00:08:19
Speaker
A grief process, a natural grief process in the physical body usually and can be like wailing, screaming, throwing our bodies around.
00:08:29
Speaker
Like children have tantrums.
00:08:30
Speaker
They know how to move emotions through the body, but that's not really socially acceptable for adults to be able to go like, you know, scream and throw their arms around and like it'd be okay to have the somatic emotional release.
00:08:45
Speaker
And so I was like, all right, you know what, I'm just going to like get inebriated and wasted.
00:08:49
Speaker
And then I can feel like I can sort of let loose and maybe I'll throw my arms around and be a little belligerent because I need to figure out a way to how to process, you know?
00:08:58
Speaker
And so it's really fascinating how there's so much more research and more discovery and more acceptability too around grief, for example, and emotional pain.
00:09:08
Speaker
Somatic processing, at least from what I can see in the profession I'm in and in the cultures that I'm in with, you know, the evolution of humanity and where we're at.
00:09:19
Speaker
So that's some of my initial thoughts.
00:09:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:22
Speaker
Oh man, I am so much of what you said is hitting.
00:09:26
Speaker
And, and I wanted to speak to what you said about the numbing and escaping.
00:09:31
Speaker
And I was so resistant and I did not think that applied to me because that feels judgmental.
00:09:37
Speaker
It feels weak to not face your emotions.
00:09:40
Speaker
And I didn't see myself as someone who was weak.
00:09:42
Speaker
I did not see myself as someone who is not able to face struggle and hardship.
00:09:48
Speaker
And I see I can see now that there were way deep aspects that I was struggling with.
00:09:57
Speaker
So if you had a conversation with me about some topic, I think I could face it head on.
00:10:02
Speaker
But there were parts down deep inside me of social anxiety that was even deeper than that is aspects of self-worth.
00:10:09
Speaker
And so without even really meaning to or thinking I was doing it, I was helping myself to avoid accessing the roots of these things that I was medicating with, with substances.
00:10:26
Speaker
And it's like, you know, when you have a stressful thing, you have a drink.
00:10:30
Speaker
We are so trained to do that.
00:10:32
Speaker
Now that I'm not drinking, when I watch television, I'm like, oh my God, anytime somebody walks into a room and goes, how was your day?
00:10:38
Speaker
Oh, it was rough.
00:10:39
Speaker
Want a drink?
00:10:39
Speaker
Oh, pour me a drink.
00:10:41
Speaker
I've had a rough day.
00:10:41
Speaker
Oh, give me a drink.
00:10:43
Speaker
Oh, and it's like, oh yeah, that's just, that is way more a part of our cultural training than that sounds really hard.
00:10:50
Speaker
Do you want to sit, should I sit with you while you cry?
00:10:53
Speaker
Yeah, should we take 10 deep breaths together?
00:10:57
Speaker
Hey, I had a rough day.
00:10:57
Speaker
Let's take some deep breaths.
00:10:59
Speaker
That's way too woo-woo.
00:11:02
Speaker
No way.
00:11:03
Speaker
Whiskey it is.
00:11:04
Speaker
And I can see, yeah, I can see
00:11:08
Speaker
now how many times I used alcohol specifically is one that helped me to access pain and, and frustration that was clogged in me, you know?
00:11:19
Speaker
So I like, uh, I can remember when the night that Trump was elected, I hit the whiskey bottle and
00:11:28
Speaker
And just started bawling, crying.
00:11:30
Speaker
And I did it publicly online and it felt so good to release the stuff.
00:11:35
Speaker
Now, I don't know if I had the capacity to get to those emotions at that time without it, but it was a tool for me at that moment, you know.
00:11:45
Speaker
And I was able to really purge and release any of the parts of myself that were embarrassed or ashamed and just really just surrender in that.
00:11:56
Speaker
I mean, I was numbing the parts of myself that were overly self-aware and afraid of being judged.
00:12:03
Speaker
And so by numbing those parts, I was able to be fully expressed.
00:12:08
Speaker
Side note, someone took a screenshot of that night and it went viral with the hashtag liberal tears.
00:12:14
Speaker
Yes.
00:12:14
Speaker
I think I saw that.
00:12:16
Speaker
I saw that.
00:12:17
Speaker
You've had a few of those.
00:12:18
Speaker
I've had a couple of those viral tears moments.
00:12:23
Speaker
You know, it's interesting listening to both you guys.
00:12:27
Speaker
It kind of strikes me for the first time really how alcohol is almost an adaptogen.
00:12:35
Speaker
Like it almost brings you, it can do that numbing thing that I think we're very conscious of that.
00:12:45
Speaker
The idea of getting off work and I got to stop by the bar before I go home, which will allow me to deal with my home life, whatever that looks like.
00:12:54
Speaker
How many millions of people do that on a daily basis, Monday through Friday at least, having to stop by and just numb themselves before they go home?
00:13:04
Speaker
But then it also has a way of...
Alcohol as an Adaptogen, True Emotions?
00:13:08
Speaker
accessing what's real for you, what's true for you.
00:13:11
Speaker
You know, we all are familiar with the idea of a happy drunk or a sad drunk or an angry drunk.
00:13:16
Speaker
And I think we walk through these lives with this, this mask and this costume and this little bit of artifice that we put to the world, but we take a few drinks and I really feel that the true, the true nature comes out.
00:13:28
Speaker
It's like, Oh, this person's actually kind of a happy soul at the, at the, at the root of it.
00:13:33
Speaker
After they drop through all their stuff or they're really angry.
00:13:38
Speaker
After a couple of drinks, like, oh, I think they got some stuff to work out.
00:13:42
Speaker
So I feel I really feel like alcohol can be good to kind of show you.
00:13:47
Speaker
And unfortunately, in other cases, show the rest of the world who you really are and what you really have to, you know, what's really going on with you.
00:13:55
Speaker
And I feel a good question.
00:13:57
Speaker
I'm trying to I think somebody asked me this back in the day when I was when I had stopped drinking myself.
00:14:05
Speaker
Well, I paused drinking, I would say.
00:14:08
Speaker
But a good question to ask yourself on a fairly regular basis is what are you avoiding or what are you trying to avoid?
00:14:15
Speaker
Not necessarily in regards to your substance use or abuse, but I think that's just a good question.
00:14:21
Speaker
You certainly don't have to answer to somebody else, but it's a good question to ask yourself.
00:14:25
Speaker
What am I trying to avoid and what am I doing to avoid that?
00:14:32
Speaker
For me, yeah, it was a lot of, you know, you know, childhood stuff, childhood pain that was, that had carried into adulthood.
00:14:41
Speaker
Back in 20, just really quickly, back in 2011 is one of those times and, you know, I did a life assessment, kind of looked over my life and what it has been up to that point and realized that all of my most embarrassing or awkward or
00:14:57
Speaker
painful moments that I had as a human being, those moments I had to apologize to somebody for many occasions.
00:15:03
Speaker
So they were, each and every one of them had an alcohol component to it.
00:15:08
Speaker
I was either, you know, buzzed or drunk or whatever, and just not acting as my best self.
00:15:13
Speaker
So I was like, all right, how about I take a break from this?
00:15:15
Speaker
Because I would just, the moderation button would just go missing on occasion.
00:15:18
Speaker
So
00:15:19
Speaker
I took about 14 months off.
00:15:22
Speaker
The idea was to take a year off and just kind of recalibrate my relationship with alcohol, which was a huge success, frankly.
00:15:30
Speaker
And ever since then, I think I can count the number of times I've been like drunk on like one hand.
00:15:35
Speaker
I just don't get drunk anymore.
00:15:38
Speaker
And it's been good.
00:15:39
Speaker
It's allowed me to kind of actually get some things done in my life.
00:15:43
Speaker
And it's important.
00:15:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's important to examine your relationship and realize that it's relationship with substances, alcohol, what have you.
00:15:52
Speaker
And really be honest with yourself and be like, OK, so how is this is this enabling me?
00:15:57
Speaker
Because as you as you mentioned, as you guys both mentioned, it's these are these are tools.
00:16:01
Speaker
They're neutral.
00:16:01
Speaker
They're neutral.
00:16:02
Speaker
It's like, what are we doing with them?
Intoxication & Confidence
00:16:04
Speaker
What are they doing to us?
00:16:05
Speaker
And if it feels like it's doing something to you, you definitely want to step back, reexamine now, which, you know, which which, you know, which who's the tool and who is the user?
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:18
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like I was a very fun drunk.
00:16:23
Speaker
I feel like I'm really good at being intoxicated.
00:16:28
Speaker
And there was a part of me when I stopped that was scared that I wouldn't be nearly as fun.
00:16:35
Speaker
I wouldn't be nearly as entertaining.
00:16:38
Speaker
And I finally got something that many of my close friends have said to me where they're like, I really like John a lot better than I like Halcyon.
00:16:48
Speaker
You know, like when I'm in like, like entertainer mode, like I get a buzz on and I'm telling stories.
00:16:55
Speaker
And I, in my mind, that's the best version of me.
00:16:59
Speaker
That's the part, that's the one that everyone likes, you know, and, and through this journey of, of taking those away, the crutches and the numbness and looking at the stuff, I'm now clear that I'm
00:17:12
Speaker
I'm overcompensating.
00:17:14
Speaker
I really need people to like me.
00:17:16
Speaker
You know, it's a masking a need for my own self love.
00:17:22
Speaker
And so the entertaining, even though people are leaving the conversation like, man, that guy's great.
00:17:31
Speaker
It's not the same level of connection that I have access to now where I'm much more present now.
00:17:37
Speaker
I'm a better listener now.
00:17:40
Speaker
Sure.
00:17:40
Speaker
I still tell great stories.
00:17:41
Speaker
I'm not going to lie, but I'm not in this kind of like energetic zone of performance.
00:17:47
Speaker
That is that it took me it took me sobriety to realize the the negatives of it.
00:17:54
Speaker
It's it's I mean, it's not negative.
00:17:57
Speaker
It's it's an awesome part of who I am.
00:18:00
Speaker
But.
00:18:01
Speaker
It it keeps.
00:18:03
Speaker
a part of me from connecting with others.
00:18:06
Speaker
And that's the part of the numbing and escaping that I back then I couldn't see.
00:18:11
Speaker
And I resented people saying, and now I can see it.
00:18:16
Speaker
So I think that's a common thing to want to use a substance like alcohol or other chemicals to be able to feel more socially adept.
00:18:28
Speaker
You know, that part of you that was like, yay, the fun one and celebrating and I can like let loose and tell stories and be silly and engage and, you know,
00:18:36
Speaker
you know, there's also this deep part that is like really insecure and doesn't really know how to connect with people.
00:18:43
Speaker
And so the alcohol then helps to create that bridge.
00:18:46
Speaker
And I think that's likely why, you know, a lot of social gatherings are, have those substances, you know, because we don't always feel comfortable to come into a social setting and it takes practice and it takes
00:19:00
Speaker
you know, just a lot of different layers of our own insecurities to soften, to come into a conversation with someone else.
00:19:11
Speaker
And a drink, a little drink can help you like relax a little bit and it's natural.
00:19:16
Speaker
And so, you know, as you're
00:19:18
Speaker
You were saying, Janice, too, it's like, well, it's a tool, right?
Moderation & Self-Awareness
00:19:22
Speaker
And so I definitely feel like it can be supportive to people, right?
00:19:27
Speaker
To be able to just relax a little bit and kind of let go of some of the insecurities and to just feel a little bit safer to be able to be expressed, you know, because maybe those parts are shut down.
00:19:41
Speaker
And also, just like anything, if there's an excess use, then it can be detrimental to your relationships, to your health, to all kinds of things.
00:19:53
Speaker
So it's even like social media, right?
00:19:55
Speaker
It's a tool.
00:19:57
Speaker
Right.
00:19:57
Speaker
We can pop on there once in a while and gain some inspiration and it might actually fill some need for connection or some kind of need.
00:20:06
Speaker
Right.
00:20:06
Speaker
But if you're doing it every day, scrolling every day for many hours a day, then you're taking a lot of time out of your day to be going into this, you know, as I will have one drink every once in a while or you have a drink every single day.
00:20:18
Speaker
Right.
00:20:19
Speaker
It's a moderation.
00:20:20
Speaker
It's a tool.
00:20:22
Speaker
And so I think that, you know, what you brought forward, Yanis, too, is in that question, you know, how is this actually serving my highest and best?
00:20:32
Speaker
Is this a tool?
00:20:33
Speaker
Is this a substance that is actually contributing to the betterment of my life?
00:20:39
Speaker
And sometimes if we're in it, it's hard to see it.
00:20:41
Speaker
You know, whether it's alcohol or coffee or sugar or whatever, you know, something that has, might have a hook on us, nicotine, you know, I think it is really powerful to pull up and out and see if this is in contribution to my life or maybe not.
00:20:59
Speaker
And if it's not, then how do we take the reins, right?
00:21:03
Speaker
Halcyon, like you stopped a year ago.
00:21:06
Speaker
How did you do that?
00:21:07
Speaker
Like, how do you just stop doing something that's a huge part of your life?
00:21:11
Speaker
Right.
00:21:11
Speaker
That is a, that's a, like I said, takes commitment, takes devotion.
00:21:14
Speaker
It takes a lot of self-awareness and it takes asking for help as well.
00:21:19
Speaker
You know, surrounding ourselves with people that support us, you know, it is really, really important to be able to have that kind of
00:21:26
Speaker
strength to be able to first call yourself out and second, have people in your lives in an environment that can support that, right?
00:21:33
Speaker
If you're in a habit pattern of going to the bar every day after work, you know, that's, that takes some effort to start to shift that habit, right?
00:21:42
Speaker
What, what can you do instead, right?
00:21:44
Speaker
What is the alternative?
00:21:46
Speaker
Do you go into nature?
00:21:48
Speaker
Do you call a friend?
00:21:49
Speaker
How do you do it?
00:21:51
Speaker
Yeah, there's so much of having to let go of the person you were
00:21:58
Speaker
because that equation worked with intoxication in it.
00:22:03
Speaker
And when you take that out, a bunch of things that used to serve you become problematic.
00:22:10
Speaker
I wanna touch on the socializing part because it can be a tool to help you get over insecurities and it can be more social when you're feeling introverted and things.
00:22:26
Speaker
I found this really interesting shift that's happened in me is that I think it used to give me confidence because it would kind of, I would be numbed.
00:22:39
Speaker
I would forget about the parts of myself that I was insecure about.
00:22:44
Speaker
But the whole aspect of being insecure is because some part in your mind thinks you should be a certain way or thinks you should be accepted in a certain way.
00:22:54
Speaker
And so you're performing, you're auditioning, basically.
00:22:56
Speaker
You're constantly auditioning and hoping that the people around you say, you got the part.
00:23:00
Speaker
And so this new kind of awareness of like, oh, I was always auditioning and to going back to a new place of, can I just trust and have faith?
00:23:14
Speaker
that who I am will be enough.
00:23:18
Speaker
You know, like, can I trust that I don't need to perform?
00:23:20
Speaker
Can I trust that?
00:23:21
Speaker
And honestly, that is a huge chasm for me, you know, is like, is letting go of what I know works, you know, what I know, this personality, this whole identity.
00:23:34
Speaker
And when I took alcohol away going, oh my gosh, it was, I only was able to access that because, you know,
00:23:41
Speaker
because I was forgetting that I was trying to achieve a certain thing.
00:23:47
Speaker
I was trying to be seen in a certain way.
Substances & Deep-Seated Issues
00:23:49
Speaker
And there's this real liberation of...
00:23:54
Speaker
healing enough of myself going, I'm enough, I'm enough, I'm enough.
00:23:58
Speaker
And then it doesn't matter what the world thinks.
00:24:00
Speaker
It's like the Ram Dass quote about, you don't go into a forest and start judging the trees, it's crazy.
00:24:06
Speaker
You don't look at a cloud and go, that shape ain't right.
00:24:09
Speaker
And if you are being genuine and true, then it's a crazy person that judges you.
00:24:16
Speaker
And that requires you to be genuine with yourself.
00:24:22
Speaker
And for me personally, I think I knew that as long as I had a daily intoxication habit, that was a splinter in my psyche, that I knew that I was not being in alignment.
00:24:33
Speaker
I wasn't being the best person I was.
00:24:35
Speaker
And so it was kind of a self-fulfilling thing.
00:24:39
Speaker
I used so that I would forget that I didn't think I was enough.
00:24:44
Speaker
And part of why I didn't think I was enough is because I used.
00:24:48
Speaker
It's a really hard one to get off of.
00:24:49
Speaker
And there it is.
00:24:50
Speaker
And there it is.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah, we are the we are the easiest person in the world for us to bullshit.
00:24:56
Speaker
It is weird.
00:24:57
Speaker
We are so easily fooled by ourselves.
00:25:00
Speaker
It's it's it's important.
00:25:01
Speaker
That's an important thing to remember.
00:25:03
Speaker
And it's it's interesting when you say Halcyon that, you know, like the people, you know, people like the house.
00:25:12
Speaker
Like when somebody said to you recently, like I like John more than I like Halcyon.
00:25:17
Speaker
And when you were in that halcyon space or just when you were in the space where you were enjoying all these substances and alcohol, you believed that people liked that halcyon, that people like this is the version people like.
00:25:30
Speaker
This is the person people want me to be.
00:25:32
Speaker
And it turns out that wasn't always the case.
00:25:35
Speaker
There's a lot of people like you and I have been friends a long time.
00:25:40
Speaker
I would see Halcyon doing their thing.
00:25:44
Speaker
I never got that from you personally.
00:25:47
Speaker
When we were one-on-one, you were never on with me.
00:25:51
Speaker
You were always kind of who you are now, slightly pinker, but the essence is the same.
00:25:58
Speaker
Where I would see you across the room, where I see you at a functional and apply, I'm like, oh, Halcyon is...
00:26:03
Speaker
Halstead is on.
00:26:04
Speaker
And even when you would be on it, we would connect it, like when you're serving ice cream or whatever, it would just drop and you would just, and we would just be, you know, real like, like we are now.
00:26:14
Speaker
And I remember thinking back in the day, that's, that's interesting how he kind of drops that when we, when we get in person and then I would see you turn it right back on like somebody else.
00:26:24
Speaker
Which is not to say that, oh, I'm evoking the real version.
00:26:27
Speaker
I mean, whatever.
00:26:29
Speaker
But I feel like we – there is something that – to be said for what we evoke from each other and what we – how we feel comfortable with each other.
00:26:42
Speaker
And when you get comfortable with yourself, you can show – you don't – you cease to care about –
00:26:49
Speaker
what you how you look to others, how you come off to others.
00:26:53
Speaker
And I think that's what allowed you
00:26:56
Speaker
and allows people to eventually kind of overcome their addiction to these things and be like, you know, I'm actually not fully comfortable with myself, but comfortable enough that I can go out into the world without
Authenticity & Overcoming Anxiety
00:27:09
Speaker
these crutches.
00:27:11
Speaker
And people are gonna, you know, people are gonna get what they get and they're gonna like it or not.
00:27:15
Speaker
And there's something to be said for, you know, that getting comfortable in your own skin, but it starts with really, you know, some strong self-inquiry.
00:27:25
Speaker
to um to be able to realize like how comfortable we actually are with ourselves and that's a practice you know self-love is not necessarily an easy thing
00:27:37
Speaker
It takes some effort to become our own best friend, you know, to be loving and accepting of the parts of who we are, whether we're alone or with other people.
00:27:48
Speaker
It's definitely a practice.
00:27:49
Speaker
I personally am really lit up by that because right now I'm actually in a little private 21 day group where we are cultivating practices to help us to be kinder to ourselves, be more loving to ourselves.
00:28:04
Speaker
I'm using affirmations and just practices to be able to keep coming back to that place of feeling comfortable being just who we are, you know.
00:28:13
Speaker
And, you know, maybe there is something about the alcohol or different substances that, you know, help us process that.
00:28:20
Speaker
And it is a really deep journey.
00:28:24
Speaker
to be able to come into that relationship with ourselves and to like you shared when you come into an authentic expression of who we are, then we're comfortable, relaxed, not in the place of anxiety.
00:28:37
Speaker
You know, I think anxiety is a far too common, unfortunately, social anxiety.
00:28:42
Speaker
It's a real thing.
00:28:43
Speaker
I think we've all experienced that and sometimes a little shot of tequila will just help.
00:28:47
Speaker
No, just relax.
00:28:49
Speaker
And then you're, you know, it's like, well, then what other tools do we have to be able to moderate potentials for anxiety, social anxiety, excess stimulus, these different kinds of things.
00:29:01
Speaker
And so I actually would love to tune in with you guys around.
Adaptogens & Non-Alcoholic Options
00:29:05
Speaker
Well, if we are choosing to use different things,
00:29:10
Speaker
what are our options to help us relax?
00:29:12
Speaker
And you mentioned adaptogens.
00:29:16
Speaker
I'm not sure if everyone out there knows what they are, but it is becoming more and more available on the shelves, especially here in California.
00:29:23
Speaker
There's all these amazing drinks that have no alcohol, that have adaptogenetic herbs,
00:29:31
Speaker
and all kinds of wonderful, delicious things that make it feel like you are drinking a cocktail, but it's really a mocktail, you know, that actually has things in it to help our nervous system to either relax or to stimulate.
00:29:45
Speaker
I love seeing on menus a lot of food
00:29:50
Speaker
restaurants, nicer restaurants, especially that have options instead of wine, beer, cocktails.
00:29:56
Speaker
There's also mocktails.
00:29:58
Speaker
I recently saw one that was like a section of the menu said zero proof, you know, as all these really amazing, delicious drinks.
00:30:05
Speaker
Cause there's something really fun about when you're out and you get served up a beautiful glass that has, you know, garnish on it.
00:30:13
Speaker
And then you're like sipping on something.
00:30:15
Speaker
I know for me, that's been one of the more challenging components because
00:30:20
Speaker
You go out and, you know, you want to have something in your hand.
00:30:23
Speaker
There's something nice to hold.
00:30:25
Speaker
you know, you get to a gathering and you're like, Oh, do you want to drink?
00:30:27
Speaker
And it's like, okay, it's nice to have something that feels really kind of fancy or like, you know, just feels like comfortable, you know, and it's nice to have these options.
00:30:38
Speaker
I see more and more, uh, available.
00:30:41
Speaker
Like I went to a party recently here in San Diego and there was a whole bar, but there was no alcohol on that bar.
00:30:48
Speaker
It was amazing.
00:30:49
Speaker
It's like, this is pretty incredible.
00:30:52
Speaker
And it was actually kind of funny because the party was going on and there was like 60 people and then this band arrived and as they're setting up, I saw one of the band members kind of like looking around and looking for something and so I was like, hey, can I help you find something he goes?
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah, is there a beer?
00:31:09
Speaker
And I was like, oh, no, I don't think so.
00:31:13
Speaker
And he's like, oh, is there any cocktail or anything?
00:31:16
Speaker
I was like, oh, gosh, you know, I don't think there is.
00:31:19
Speaker
Oh, it looks like someone brought a bottle of wine for the host.
00:31:22
Speaker
Do you want some wine?
00:31:23
Speaker
You know, he was just so shocked that there was no alcohol at this party, that there was all these really fun people and
00:31:30
Speaker
I sent him to the bar and he ended up making a little like sparkling drink and it was really sweet.
00:31:36
Speaker
It was, it felt like a cool moment to see that not all parties circle around alcohol anymore.
00:31:42
Speaker
Things are changing.
00:31:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:45
Speaker
There's like, there's like a, I'd have had a flask with me probably.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah, you wouldn't have even risked it.
00:31:54
Speaker
The old dude is like, no, I bring my own.
00:31:57
Speaker
Yeah, for me, there's definitely a...
00:32:01
Speaker
Like a physical component.
00:32:02
Speaker
I mean, I don't know if I'm using the word somatic correctly, but there's like a somatic component to this.
00:32:08
Speaker
I think that's been shown that that's why people who stop smoking end up gaining a lot of weight because there is a hand to mouth feature that if you're not smoking, you're not doing that anymore.
00:32:18
Speaker
But your body is used to your hand going to your mouth.
00:32:22
Speaker
So you end up eating more because that's the same motion.
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:26
Speaker
There is, for me, what would help me, and still helps me actually, there's a lot of times where I feel like I want a beer.
00:32:33
Speaker
I'm like, it's not really going to, I don't feel like I want a drink though.
00:32:37
Speaker
I would just get something bubbly, whether it's kombucha or it's, you know, tapache, but something with bubbles in it.
00:32:43
Speaker
And I like champagne too, but I don't even want to drink champagne.
00:32:45
Speaker
So I would get something with bubbles and that absolutely scratches that itch for me to drink something bubbly, like beer is bubbly.
00:32:53
Speaker
And then it was like, oh, I didn't, I didn't want a beer.
00:32:55
Speaker
I just wanted something.
00:32:57
Speaker
I wanted the sensation of bubbles in my body.
00:32:59
Speaker
It's bubbles going down my throat.
00:33:00
Speaker
So get something bubbly.
00:33:01
Speaker
And I was like, oh, and I'm completely fine.
00:33:04
Speaker
The desire for a beer would just be gone.
00:33:06
Speaker
And I was like, oh, it's not the beer, it's the bubbles.
00:33:09
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:33:10
Speaker
Sometimes it, you know,
00:33:11
Speaker
That's not me.
00:33:12
Speaker
I'm like, sometimes I just want an IPA.
00:33:14
Speaker
Give me those apps.
00:33:15
Speaker
I was going to say.
00:33:16
Speaker
Sometimes I do absolutely want an IPA.
00:33:19
Speaker
Just give me some celery.
00:33:20
Speaker
Yeah, this is true.
00:33:24
Speaker
This is true.
00:33:28
Speaker
It's adorable that that can scratch the itch for some people.
00:33:31
Speaker
I never have a craving for a cocktail or the taste of a cocktail.
00:33:38
Speaker
I miss being fucked up.
00:33:40
Speaker
And so like if I went to a party, I wasn't, oh, I want to have a cocktail, man.
00:33:43
Speaker
I would probably have a few gulps from a flask before I went into a party.
00:33:48
Speaker
And then I would make sure I had enough to get the buzz I wanted when I was in there.
00:33:52
Speaker
So I have yet this whole year, I have not...
00:33:56
Speaker
had a fake, you know, a no zero alcohol beer.
00:33:58
Speaker
That is not what I crave.
00:34:00
Speaker
There's been, it's just, it's a different thing.
00:34:03
Speaker
And that's kind of a thing that I've been, you know, in this conversation about people always ask me like, well, how long before during sobriety, how long was it before you could go out and be social again?
00:34:12
Speaker
And you felt comfortably in social.
00:34:13
Speaker
I'm like, the problem comes if you try to go, how can I get back to being the kind of social person I was?
00:34:23
Speaker
I've had to say,
00:34:25
Speaker
I'm going to go out and I'm going to have whatever experience I have.
00:34:29
Speaker
So I'm going to go early.
00:34:31
Speaker
I'm going to have the ability to leave whenever I want and not try to have the experience I used to have.
00:34:38
Speaker
And there was some grief around that and continues to be some grief around that.
00:34:41
Speaker
I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't wander through a party with this buzz of socializing and just sharing big energy and receiving big energy.
00:34:52
Speaker
And I don't think I can access that.
00:34:56
Speaker
with this chemical way, but I can be there authentically and have a different kind of rewarding experience.
Community Support in Sobriety
00:35:03
Speaker
And I think for it to work for me, it isn't about scratching old itches, it's new paths and new expectations for myself.
00:35:12
Speaker
So powerful.
00:35:13
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:14
Speaker
I think it's so, so important to look forward, you know, to recognize that if we are on a path of growth and evolution, who are we becoming?
00:35:24
Speaker
Right.
00:35:24
Speaker
And it can sometimes be easier to focus on who we were, what we're letting go of and letting go of letting go of, but like really starting to look forward of who I'm becoming.
00:35:34
Speaker
Who am I without the substance?
00:35:36
Speaker
Who am I in a different social scene?
00:35:40
Speaker
What do I want to embody?
00:35:42
Speaker
And I think that something here that is worth mentioning is I think that there's something really beautiful about this time we live in where there is community based around recovery.
00:35:53
Speaker
And there's so many people that are sober and that embrace that as a path.
00:35:58
Speaker
And that is actually part of the spiritual practice for a lot of people.
00:36:03
Speaker
It's pretty incredible.
00:36:05
Speaker
I grew up going to AA meetings with my dad and my stepmom.
00:36:11
Speaker
So I got to have firsthand experience as a child, getting to see all these people that were gathering together and supporting each other and coming to places of their vulnerability and their authentic sharing and their conversations.
00:36:25
Speaker
kindness and challenges and all of that.
00:36:28
Speaker
And it's been so cool to see how more and more people are open about that.
00:36:35
Speaker
I remember when I was young, it was like kind of a hush-hush thing.
00:36:38
Speaker
Like you couldn't really talk too much about it.
00:36:40
Speaker
There was like code words around being in recovery.
00:36:43
Speaker
Now it's so much more widely acceptable and it's cool.
00:36:48
Speaker
be in recovery i see people posting about it all the time they you know this many days sober you know i have a friend that is 11 years sober i have another friend that is like you know seven years you're a year it's a celebration it's really pretty amazing to live at a time where there is so much community support for these powerful choices you know so i just really wanted to put a little spotlight on that
00:37:14
Speaker
Yeah, cool.
00:37:15
Speaker
That's and that's a real kind of a hidden gift to be able to I'm sure you felt a certain type of way like having to go to AA meetings as a child, frankly.
00:37:24
Speaker
But I think it's to be exposed to that at an early age and it kind of have some language around that has really I would imagine served you pretty well into it.
00:37:32
Speaker
Well, the smell of coffee and cigarettes is definitely deeply imprinted.
00:37:37
Speaker
I always smell coffee and cigarettes.
00:37:38
Speaker
I'm like,
00:37:39
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:37:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:37:41
Speaker
Uh, what is the saying?
00:37:42
Speaker
Um, each day, a new beginning, you know, like remembering the 12 steps.
00:37:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:47
Speaker
So, um, and this, I understand that this is looping kind of back to what we were talking about before, but I trust you will be able to kind of bring us back into the moment, Betsy, but I wanted to get your, um, kind of,
00:37:59
Speaker
your take on, on your journey with, you know, substances and experiences and
Cultural Acceptance & Lifestyle Change
00:38:04
Speaker
alcohol.
00:38:04
Speaker
And what has that been like for you?
00:38:05
Speaker
Any, any, have there been any issues that you had to address at any point with your usage?
00:38:11
Speaker
Yeah, well, you know, yes, I grew up in going to some of these meetings.
00:38:15
Speaker
But then by the time I was 14, I was drinking and using all kinds of different drugs, psychedelics, not any of the hard things, but smoking weed really young.
00:38:27
Speaker
By the time I was in college, I had, you know, pretty
00:38:30
Speaker
heavy drinking practice and much of my socializing was around drinking, you know, the typical college scenario of beer pong every weekend and going to the bars.
00:38:41
Speaker
And it was quite unfortunate, you know, that blacking out was not
00:38:46
Speaker
you know, was semi common.
00:38:48
Speaker
I blanked out quite a few times.
00:38:50
Speaker
Unfortunately, I had multiple DUIs as well.
00:38:54
Speaker
Thank God no one was hurt.
00:38:57
Speaker
It was very, very intense time of my life.
00:39:00
Speaker
And, you know, even just being in this conversation, I'm like really looking at like, why?
00:39:04
Speaker
Why?
00:39:05
Speaker
why did I go so hard at that time in my life?
00:39:09
Speaker
You know, what was it that I really needed to feel like I wanted to drink so much?
00:39:15
Speaker
And, you know, in the reflection of it, it really did feel like there was unexpressed emotions around frustration, resentment,
00:39:23
Speaker
I didn't really want to be where I was.
00:39:27
Speaker
I went to a college to appease my dad's request.
00:39:32
Speaker
I didn't really want to be there.
00:39:34
Speaker
And so I was just kind of a little bit of a rebel.
00:39:37
Speaker
And I guess I thought just drinking would
00:39:40
Speaker
support that.
00:39:42
Speaker
And it was also very socially acceptable.
00:39:45
Speaker
That was a huge part of what we did in college, especially, and in high school.
00:39:50
Speaker
You know, tons of us had fake IDs.
00:39:52
Speaker
We're going to the bar, growing up in Ohio.
00:39:56
Speaker
You know, that is, that's what you do socially.
00:39:59
Speaker
You know, what is there to do?
00:40:00
Speaker
You go to the bar.
00:40:02
Speaker
And so I remember when I finally made a shift in my life and recognized that I didn't have to be there, that I could make a choice on my own.
00:40:11
Speaker
I could go to a college that I really wanted to.
00:40:14
Speaker
I was able to shift out of that.
00:40:17
Speaker
And when I moved, I moved to Arizona and went to a massage school and I started to learn about healing and about energy.
00:40:28
Speaker
And I started to shift some of my drinking habits.
00:40:32
Speaker
Obviously, there was a little bit of a different social dynamic.
00:40:36
Speaker
You know, when I'm going to a university where there's lots of drinking and socializing in that way versus a massage school, the environment was very different.
00:40:45
Speaker
So naturally my habits started to change.
00:40:47
Speaker
And then the biggest shift for me was when I moved to California and I met the Burning Man culture.
00:40:55
Speaker
My first burner party I went to, it was like, wait a second,
00:41:00
Speaker
We can gather and have fun and not be at a bar.
00:41:04
Speaker
Like that just felt like such a foreign concept to me, you know, and I started to find other ways to gather with people that was not focused around drinking.
00:41:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:13
Speaker
There are some alcohol at parties and whatnot.
00:41:15
Speaker
People are drinking, but it wasn't focused around alcohol.
00:41:18
Speaker
Whereas like when I would go back to Ohio, I even saw it after I had moved and I came back and was like, Hey, you want to get together?
00:41:25
Speaker
What bar do you want to meet up?
00:41:27
Speaker
And I was like the only option.
00:41:29
Speaker
Like, oh, okay, I guess, yeah.
00:41:31
Speaker
Or maybe we go to dinner or you want to go to the bar afterwards?
00:41:34
Speaker
Like, oh, great.
00:41:35
Speaker
And now here I am.
00:41:38
Speaker
I don't remember the last time I went to a bar.
00:41:41
Speaker
You know, it was just not even part of the scene in my life.
00:41:44
Speaker
And I don't know very many people that actually go to bars.
00:41:48
Speaker
And so I think that that was a huge shift for me in the environment and the people that I spend time with and just starting to pull the
00:41:56
Speaker
the alcohol out of the center of the socializing and then start to be able to make choices differently.
00:42:04
Speaker
Um, and so I'm very grateful for that time.
00:42:07
Speaker
It was like wild exuberant time.
00:42:11
Speaker
It was a very unhealthy time.
00:42:13
Speaker
I didn't know hardly anything about who I was.
00:42:15
Speaker
I didn't know anything about nutrition and
00:42:17
Speaker
I didn't really realize the impact that it was having on my body until I started to stop and I started to get more in shape and healthier.
00:42:26
Speaker
I even look back at photos of myself.
00:42:27
Speaker
I was a little chubbier and I was like, you know, just, yeah, it's just a different person.
00:42:33
Speaker
And so I'm also right there with you.
00:42:36
Speaker
Yanis too is like, I don't, I don't drink these days to have a buzz.
00:42:40
Speaker
I don't remember the last time I even was drunk.
00:42:44
Speaker
But now I am grateful to be able to have a relationship with alcohol that I can sip a glass of wine.
00:42:50
Speaker
and enjoy the notes and enjoy the flavor of a really fine tequila, for example, or have a one IPA at dinner just to like satiate, you know, that sense of like, I don't know, whatever an IPA is, it gives me some fulfillment.
00:43:07
Speaker
And it feels really nice to be able to have the reins of my control mechanisms around how much I wanna drink and how much I don't.
00:43:18
Speaker
That's great, thank you.
00:43:19
Speaker
Thank you for sharing it.
00:43:21
Speaker
I heard something recently, maybe one of you said it to me, but there's a difference between addiction and enlightenment.
00:43:30
Speaker
Addiction is a narrow, what brings you happiness is narrow.
00:43:39
Speaker
Whereas when it comes to enlightenment, what brings you happiness is expansive.
00:43:44
Speaker
Enlightenment is not this place you reach, it is a journey.
00:43:51
Speaker
And once you kind of let go or move away from the addiction, more towards the enlightenment, the expansion, you're able to take enjoyment out of these same things without having to go overboard.
Addiction vs Enlightenment
00:44:07
Speaker
Like you're able to have like one drink and get the same fulfillment that you would earlier would take you six or seven drinks to get to.
00:44:15
Speaker
And I think that's the, you know, that, that, that fucked upness that you, I just want to, I just want to feel something, you know, it's like you're, you're more readily available to feel something.
00:44:25
Speaker
So you don't need to do nearly as much of the thing.
00:44:29
Speaker
Um,
00:44:30
Speaker
once you kind of reframe, you know, your approach to it.
00:44:34
Speaker
So it's, yeah, so it's an important thing that the bigger, the bigger we become, the less reliant I think we become on, you know, all these substances, all these tools.
00:44:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:45
Speaker
That, that idea of, of addiction, narrowing the circle of what can bring you joy and enlightenment, increasing the circle of what can bring you joy.
00:44:55
Speaker
I find that to be really significant for me on, and keeping on my path, uh, because I still have memories of how fun, you know, getting intoxicated is, but I also remember how more and more the,
00:45:14
Speaker
that was the thing I craved or that's anything that would be fun.
00:45:18
Speaker
I wanted to add intoxication to it, or I would be at a party and go, this is kind of fun here rather than stick it out and see who else I'll talk to.
00:45:26
Speaker
I'll go home.
00:45:27
Speaker
Cause I know I'll have a good time if I do that.
00:45:30
Speaker
My partner asked me recently, like how much of your addiction was
00:45:37
Speaker
seeking kind of these spiritual enlightenment experiences and, and, and divine cosmic things, which is a part of my experience and how much of it was escape.
00:45:48
Speaker
And so that's a hard question to answer.
00:45:50
Speaker
And I'm sure that's the right way to ask it because, um, addiction, I was, I
00:45:59
Speaker
It was when the balance went out, you know, like using substances as a way to access experiences or to access states or access parts of yourself is a beautiful thing.
00:46:10
Speaker
But then as addiction narrowed my circle, that became all I wanted to do.
00:46:15
Speaker
And it became the priority.
00:46:16
Speaker
And it became the thing that if you if a partner in the past said, it's either me or your drugs, I'd be like,
00:46:23
Speaker
Well, it's been nice.
00:46:25
Speaker
Goodbye, partner.
00:46:26
Speaker
I have a dedication to this.
00:46:30
Speaker
And that's kind of when I started to realize that my
00:46:36
Speaker
that I had an addict's brain, you know, like that I was starting to make decisions and make choices.
00:46:40
Speaker
And since you mentioned earlier, like, how did you stop?
00:46:43
Speaker
I just went briefly, I'll share.
00:46:45
Speaker
And I'll say that I'll put a link in the show notes to a longer explanation of my kind of addiction journey.
00:46:51
Speaker
But I got my heart broken and someone told me some really hard things about myself that I couldn't see and saw that I was out of integrity.
00:47:05
Speaker
And realized that that story I had that it's fine that I do all this stuff because I'm still a good person.
00:47:12
Speaker
They showed me ways that I had been dishonest and ways that I had been sneaky.
00:47:16
Speaker
And I couldn't believe it.
00:47:19
Speaker
Like I couldn't, I didn't see it in myself.
00:47:22
Speaker
And then, but she pointed out like, yes, I have been hiding things.
00:47:25
Speaker
I have been doing things without telling people.
00:47:28
Speaker
not outright lying, but sneaky.
00:47:31
Speaker
And that just messed up.
00:47:32
Speaker
I'm like, I cannot be that person.
00:47:33
Speaker
And so I decided I am going to do whatever I can to, to get over this and become a person that is what, first of all, is worthy in the eyes of the person who dumped me.
00:47:45
Speaker
I'm like, I, I, I want to be a good enough person.
00:47:48
Speaker
And then that kind of migrated to just, I want to be a worthy person to my friends, my family, and a future partner.
00:47:55
Speaker
And it was the dedication to that, that,
00:47:58
Speaker
that it kept me pushing to do things like I started seeing two therapists started to figure out aspects of early childhood stuff that was still affecting me.
00:48:09
Speaker
I went to Betsy and said, tell me anything that's helped you because you are a happy person.
00:48:15
Speaker
And, you know, went to see healers and do practices and read things.
00:48:19
Speaker
And it was all of these steps of therapy.
00:48:23
Speaker
saying yes to everything, to breath work, to healers, some of which were awesome, some of which weren't for me.
00:48:28
Speaker
And then slowly recognizing, oh, there is, I now can see what I've been numbing and then trying to reparent and work on that
Steps in Sobriety & Ongoing Growth
00:48:36
Speaker
stuff.
00:48:36
Speaker
And so, but it, it, it, it continues to be a process and it's, but it took making the decision and then just trusting that I don't know how long it's going to take, but I will, I will get to a place that will be better, even though I couldn't see it at the time.
00:48:54
Speaker
You know, there's a conversation I have with a dear friend recently.
00:48:57
Speaker
And the idea of approaching our days or our lives or our actions with an idea of what our favorite version of ourself looks like.
00:49:08
Speaker
What does the favorite version of myself do?
00:49:12
Speaker
What does that person have for breakfast?
00:49:14
Speaker
What does that person do with their days?
00:49:17
Speaker
All these actions.
00:49:18
Speaker
So kind of approach it like that.
00:49:20
Speaker
And if you kind of dedicate yourself to that or commit to it,
00:49:26
Speaker
It's a really great way to make some profound changes in life and it can approach your intake with substances.
00:49:32
Speaker
I was talking with my friend about this and he's like, yeah, the best version of myself likes
00:49:37
Speaker
a couple glasses of wine every night.
00:49:40
Speaker
Okay, fantastic.
00:49:42
Speaker
If that's if that is a real and true thing for you, by all means, go with it.
00:49:46
Speaker
As you know, as long as there's that's not feeding any sort of bad behavior, then I think I think it's fine.
00:49:52
Speaker
There's nothing.
00:49:53
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with using this stuff.
00:49:55
Speaker
As long as I think as long as we are doing it mindfully, as long as we're doing it consciously, we're not just completely on autopilot when we come home and we crack open a beer.
00:50:05
Speaker
pour a glass of wine or a shot of tequila.
00:50:07
Speaker
As long as we're focused on this thing and be like, this is me enjoying my, enjoying my margarita.
00:50:13
Speaker
And I like to enjoy my margarita.
00:50:15
Speaker
I do love a margarita.
00:50:16
Speaker
Um, but I think as long as we were approaching these things, like mindfully with awareness, there's really nothing wrong with a lot of this stuff.
00:50:23
Speaker
It's that, it's that autopilot aspect of it where, you know, we just, I go to Burning Man.
00:50:29
Speaker
So I'm clearly, I'm going to be taking these things, you know, these substances or whatever, but
00:50:34
Speaker
And it's funny that that reminds me of my I did one burning man completely sober because I was because I was getting ready to not be sober down in the Amazon jungle like right afterwards.
00:50:47
Speaker
So I was on dieta for the entire week.
00:50:49
Speaker
So I was sober for the week, the one in one time I did that.
00:50:53
Speaker
And I got to say, I didn't really enjoy that year.
00:50:57
Speaker
I kind of felt like the playa for me.
00:51:01
Speaker
needs that enhancement for me to really kind of dive into it.
00:51:06
Speaker
You know, because there's a lot, an ultimate of staying up all night and drugs are great for that.
00:51:10
Speaker
And so I wasn't able to kind of stay up all night and do the, do that, have that experience.
00:51:16
Speaker
And when I would share that with people, the vast majority of people would look at me like, wow, my sober burn was like the best one I ever had.
00:51:24
Speaker
And I got a lot of feedback from a number of people that I would share my experience with.
00:51:29
Speaker
And almost uniformly, people were like, wow, I did a burn sober and it was amazing.
00:51:35
Speaker
Or I've done every burn sober and it was awesome.
00:51:37
Speaker
I'm like, huh, all right.
00:51:39
Speaker
Maybe that's something.
00:51:41
Speaker
Yeah, maybe there's something here about that.
00:51:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:44
Speaker
I had my mind was like that the last one.
00:51:48
Speaker
And it was a completely different experience to have.
00:51:53
Speaker
that kind of spaciousness and rest.
00:51:55
Speaker
And there were so many moments where I was like, I'm so grateful I'm sober right now.
00:52:00
Speaker
You get to really experience it in a totally different way.
00:52:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:03
Speaker
Yeah, sobriety is underrated, people.
00:52:05
Speaker
It is.
00:52:06
Speaker
Well, I'll say just in the spirit of being honest and transparent, this was my first sober burn, and I really missed being intoxicated at the burn.
00:52:18
Speaker
Yeah, but you were there for the mud burn, too.
00:52:21
Speaker
That's true.
00:52:21
Speaker
Important caveat.
00:52:24
Speaker
But it also highlights what is to be expected on the path, and I'm still going through this place of
00:52:33
Speaker
of transitioning into embracing new things versus wishing things were like they used to be.
00:52:42
Speaker
Going someplace and going, oh, I miss being XYZ is hard to let go of in your brain instead of seeking out what's the new thing I can do here.
00:52:50
Speaker
And I wasn't really, I struggled with that at the burn this year.
00:52:56
Speaker
Yeah, well, you were still really new on your journey of sobriety.
00:52:59
Speaker
It was only a few months in, so.
00:53:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:02
Speaker
That's still up at very early stages.
00:53:06
Speaker
So it's a little stumbling, you know, when you start something new, you know, so...
00:53:11
Speaker
I think that this is a really deep and rich conversation and I just really want to honor all of you listeners who are being here with us and knowing that we are all each at a different stage of our relationships with different substances.
00:53:23
Speaker
We are by no means any experts on this topic.
00:53:27
Speaker
We're just sharing from our own personal experience, our own personal perspective.
00:53:31
Speaker
So we do hope as always that as you are listening, it might open up some perspectives for you and your
00:53:38
Speaker
your own journey and relationship to different intoxicants and substances because it's very much a part of our world and we all get to make choices based on our own authentic connection and so um in the spirit of that uh some closing sparks sure um i i wanted to share in closing that you know my patterns and habits worked for me until they didn't and i think that's is a
00:54:10
Speaker
It's good to check in occasionally and just because it's the way it's been, it can shift into something that no longer works for you.
00:54:19
Speaker
And that's a tough place.
00:54:20
Speaker
And then you got to start asking the questions that we've been talking about today of like, what am I not facing?
00:54:24
Speaker
What am I avoiding?
00:54:26
Speaker
And a part of that facing things that has become a mantra for me lately is the idea of seeking growth over comfort.
00:54:37
Speaker
Growth over comfort.
00:54:38
Speaker
Because to me, getting high, getting intoxicated was always a way to seek comfort, to feel better, to make the social situation easier, to make the night better, to just... And it was...
00:54:52
Speaker
It was an easy access to feeling better.
00:54:59
Speaker
But in doing so, I was sacrificing a whole bunch of growth.
00:55:03
Speaker
And so the growth path is more difficult, but it's the one that you can build on and build on and build on.
00:55:10
Speaker
And that's the warrior path.
00:55:14
Speaker
And so I kind of had to keep reminding myself, what kind of person do you want to be?
00:55:18
Speaker
Do you want to be the kind of person that continually seeks comfort and avoids their growth?
00:55:23
Speaker
That is no, no.
00:55:25
Speaker
And if I can be, if I can just keep making that choice, then I can fall into the kind of confidence that allows me to be without anxiety.
00:55:33
Speaker
To kind of just keep feeding itself.
00:55:36
Speaker
Yeah, well said, well said.
00:55:39
Speaker
And another version for that, you know, it's a closing spark for me.
00:55:44
Speaker
Another version of that is,
00:55:47
Speaker
You know, the concept of let go or be dragged.
Letting Go of Habits
00:55:52
Speaker
Like life, life, life has an idea for you.
00:55:56
Speaker
Life, I do believe that there is a, we are on a path and it's easy to get into a groove where everything is awesome.
00:56:07
Speaker
And I want this to continue forever.
00:56:09
Speaker
And so when things start to shift for us, for whatever reason, we tend to like, no, I actually like that.
00:56:15
Speaker
I actually enjoy that.
00:56:16
Speaker
That's fun for me.
00:56:17
Speaker
And it's like, no, life has, life is taking you in a different direction.
00:56:21
Speaker
And the more we hold onto these things, whether through habit, or we just, just, we just prefer it to be the way it is, things become painful and getting dragged through life is painful.
00:56:33
Speaker
But when we
00:56:34
Speaker
float more, steer less, as a friend of mine likes to say, we are likely going to enjoy the results.
00:56:41
Speaker
It can be a little bit uncomfortable.
00:56:42
Speaker
And there's that space of kind of being in that void of not, as the new thing is coming in, sometimes we're left feeling like, I don't know what is going on here.
00:56:50
Speaker
But we very quickly are shown like, okay, your path is going this way.
00:56:56
Speaker
And I think our usage of alcohol and substances can be part of that, often is part of that, where it's just...
00:57:04
Speaker
If it's not working for you anymore, let it not work for you anymore and let go of this thing.
00:57:13
Speaker
And if you need help, get help to do that.
00:57:16
Speaker
But let go and you are going to
00:57:19
Speaker
very, very likely enjoy where you end up at.
00:57:23
Speaker
But the concept goes back to what you're saying, Halsey, like the growth, the growth choice, you know, and frankly, it's a more interesting story to, as opposed to just the new thing.
00:57:34
Speaker
So yeah, so choose, choose, make the choice that makes it a better story later.
00:57:38
Speaker
Love that.
00:57:42
Speaker
My closing spark is in reference to a book as called Stealing Fire.
00:57:49
Speaker
It's a really great book.
00:57:51
Speaker
Great read.
00:57:51
Speaker
It's a couple of authors.
00:57:53
Speaker
We'll put it in the show notes.
00:57:54
Speaker
I think Jamie Wheeler and I'm blanking on the other author, but it's really a beautiful book.
00:58:03
Speaker
outline of our human tendency to seek some kind of an ebriation, intoxication, states of ecstasis, whether that's through drug use, psychedelics, or adrenaline junkie type people, even animals that seek that kind of an ebriation or ecstatic states.
00:58:25
Speaker
It's really insightful.
00:58:26
Speaker
If you haven't read it, it's a beautiful read.
00:58:30
Speaker
And I feel I've gained a lot out of that.
00:58:33
Speaker
I think that there is something inside of each of us that desires to expand into other states or explore different states, you know.
00:58:42
Speaker
And so that'll be my closing spark is Stealing Fire.
00:58:48
Speaker
If you haven't read it, check it out.
00:58:51
Speaker
I've heard a lot of good things about that book.
00:58:52
Speaker
It's on my list.
00:58:53
Speaker
I have one more spark.
00:58:54
Speaker
I have to share one more spark.
00:58:55
Speaker
Sparks are making sparks.
00:58:56
Speaker
It's because this is something that really continues to help me is the question of what's at stake.
00:59:04
Speaker
That what are the things that
00:59:08
Speaker
If you can know inside you that you have some patterns and uses that maybe are not ideal or not healthy, just asking, well, what's at stake?
00:59:16
Speaker
What is it keeping me from?
00:59:17
Speaker
And for decades, I knew that certain aspects of my life were being compromised.
00:59:22
Speaker
And I was happy with that choice, that I was fine with it.
00:59:25
Speaker
And until I wasn't, and then kept a list on the wall of the things that would be out of my mind.
00:59:31
Speaker
reach if I continue my old patterns and it's an easy one.
00:59:36
Speaker
What's at stake?
00:59:36
Speaker
What's at stake?
00:59:37
Speaker
What's at stake?
00:59:37
Speaker
And that can be used for anything that you're trying to keep yourself motivated to what's at stake.
00:59:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:42
Speaker
All right.
00:59:42
Speaker
Easier to make the decision.
00:59:45
Speaker
And with that, I would like to share where we can find one another online.
00:59:50
Speaker
Can I start with saying I will put in the show notes my intoxication journal and then send you to my brand new freshly refurbished personal site, which is now at lifestudent.com.
01:00:05
Speaker
Life student.com has all my links and T-shirts and gratitude circles and coaching and all the good stuff.
01:00:14
Speaker
So come have a, have a looky and tell me how beautiful it is or yes, no matter what, tell me how beautiful it is.
01:00:19
Speaker
I'm very vain.
01:00:20
Speaker
Well, I love that.
01:00:22
Speaker
The congratulations life student.com.
01:00:25
Speaker
That's so wonderful.
01:00:26
Speaker
We almost called this podcast life student.
01:00:30
Speaker
Awesome.
01:00:31
Speaker
Thank you.
01:00:32
Speaker
Halcyon.
01:00:34
Speaker
I'll jump in.
01:00:34
Speaker
You can find me on poweraffirmation.com where you can find the journal that is really a tool to help people to get into a better relationship with themselves, their thoughts, reprogramming belief systems.
01:00:47
Speaker
And there's lots of audio affirmations on there as well.
01:00:50
Speaker
I'm working on a course.
01:00:51
Speaker
There's some cards coming.
01:00:53
Speaker
That is one of my wonderful passions to help people to cultivate that healthy dialogue, inner dialogue.
01:01:01
Speaker
And then you can also learn more about the modalities that I offer on my website, finkelwho.com.
01:01:07
Speaker
I do body work and energy work and intuitive coaching.
01:01:10
Speaker
So check me out.
01:01:12
Speaker
Find me on Instagram, of course, do.
01:01:14
Speaker
Fantastic.
01:01:15
Speaker
We're going to check you out.
01:01:16
Speaker
That's it.
01:01:17
Speaker
Cool.
01:01:18
Speaker
I have a nutritional supplement company called New World Nutritionals, spelled N-U, World Nutritionals.
01:01:25
Speaker
And we have some mushroom-based products that are designed to improve and elevate your state of mind.
01:01:31
Speaker
My partner calls it a spa day for your brain.
01:01:34
Speaker
And they help with focus, learning, memory, retention, overall mood elevation.
01:01:39
Speaker
Definitely puts you in a positive mood.
01:01:41
Speaker
It can help with things like early onset dementia and anything neurological.
01:01:46
Speaker
It's actually very good for all of that stuff.
01:01:48
Speaker
So you can find us online.
01:01:50
Speaker
Check it out.
01:01:51
Speaker
NewWorldNutritionals.com.
01:01:53
Speaker
That's N-U-World Nutritionals.com.
01:01:56
Speaker
And you can use the code SPARKED for 10% off of all of our products.
01:02:01
Speaker
So, Betsy, you have an affirmation to send us off with.
01:02:08
Speaker
I would be happy to.
01:02:10
Speaker
Yes.
01:02:12
Speaker
Ah, okay.
01:02:13
Speaker
Spirit of this conversation and some of the sparks that have come through, I'd love to just bring through an affirmation to support the integration
Affirmations & Gratitude
01:02:21
Speaker
of inspiration.
01:02:21
Speaker
So go ahead and close the eyes.
01:02:24
Speaker
Take care.
01:02:27
Speaker
The affirmation is, I make healthy choices every day in every way.
01:02:33
Speaker
I am making healthy choices every day in every way.
01:02:38
Speaker
I am aware of...
01:02:40
Speaker
the substances I put in my body and I choose mindfully.
01:02:44
Speaker
I am aware of substances I put into my body and I choose mindfully.
01:02:49
Speaker
I am mindful.
01:02:51
Speaker
I am mindful.
01:02:52
Speaker
I am mindful.
01:02:53
Speaker
I am mindful.
01:02:58
Speaker
And just taking a deep breath continuously, coming back to that centered space of awareness of who we are, knowing that we have the power to choose.
01:03:07
Speaker
our thoughts, the power to choose our actions, and we get to really keep returning to the highest and best choices.
01:03:17
Speaker
I love you guys.
01:03:17
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening out there.
01:03:20
Speaker
Thank you, my spark brothers.
01:03:24
Speaker
Stay spark people.
01:03:26
Speaker
Find us on Instagram at stay sparked and leave us a five-star review on Apple podcast.
01:03:32
Speaker
Thanks so much for helping us spread these sparks.