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The Joy of GMing with Special Guest Amy Vorpahl!
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🔥 D&D Interview with Amy Vorpahl | Dungeon Master, Dimension 20, Candlekeep Mysteries 🔥
We sit down with Dungeon Master, musician, and official Dungeons & Dragons writer Amy Vorpahl (Candlekeep Mysteries, Fizban’s Treasury of Dragons) for an in-depth conversation about creativity, teaching, and leveling up your DM skills.
In this episode, we discuss:
• Amy’s journey from performer to professional D&D creator
• Her approach to teaching Dungeon Mastering
• Writing for official Dungeons & Dragons books
• Her time in the Dome with Dimension 20
• Creating and producing her one-woman show, She’s Got NPC Energy: The Musical!
If you’re a Dungeon Master looking to sharpen your craft — or a D&D fan curious about writing for official books — this episode is packed with insight and inspiration.
🎵 Listen to Amy’s song “I DM” here: • I DM by Amy Vorpahl: Official Music Video
🎭 Learn more about She’s Got NPC Energy: The Musical here
Background music by @Tabletopaudio
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Joy of GMing
00:00:14
Speaker
you
00:00:35
Speaker
Whether you're at a game table, in your comfiest chair reading a book, or listening at home, there's nothing like a great adventure story.
Target Audience of the Series
00:00:43
Speaker
But they don't happen by accident. Welcome to the Joy of GMing, a special interview series on the craft of great gaming.
00:00:51
Speaker
There's just something magic about sitting down to a good table with great friends, isn't there? If you're a lifelong gamer or a newbie rolling up your first character sheet, if you're a DM or a GM or just can't get enough tabletop talk in your day, this is the show for you.
Guest Speakers and Content Overview
00:01:09
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Each episode will bring you amazing guest speakers to talk about writing games and running them, legends and lore of your favorite TTRPGs, and oh-so-useful tricks of the trade.
00:01:22
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Hear some amazing stories, get inspired for your next game, and join us for an hour and a half or so of lively conversation. This sister series to narrative feats, the Tabletop Anthology, will be released between episodes with our ongoing serialized show.
00:01:39
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We cover some making of and behind the scenes tidbits of our latest mod as well, so do stick around.
Casey Jones and Amy Vorpahl's Backgrounds
00:01:46
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I'm Casey Jones. Over the last dozen years, I've written and produced screenplays, children's animation for TV and film, graphic novels, stage plays, murder mysteries, and award-winning audio adventures. I've also been writing and running tabletop games for over 10 years.
00:02:02
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Join us as we dive deep into tabletop with experts in the field. Experts like our special guest today, Amy Vorpahl,
00:02:15
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amy but Amy is an actor, a writer and comedy content creator. With a background in sketch and improv, her dungeon mastering is delightfully silly.
00:02:26
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Known for her contagious laughter, Exhibit a Amy has guested on Critical Role and Dimension 20, written for official D&D books and served as the creative director for alchemy RPGs, Dark Symmetry.
00:02:40
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Her two music albums, Songs in the Key of D&D and Behold Her Dreams, were inspired by many characters and experiences at the table. Amy's comedy writing includes shows like Mothership and Sidekick with Matt Mira.
00:02:55
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She can be seen acting on TV shows such as The Newsroom and writing for Emmy-nominated Making a Scene with James Franco and sold a half-hour sitcom to Hulu called Must Love Dragons.
00:03:08
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In the digital space, she's been a writer, a producer, and talent for platforms like Nerdist, Geek & Sundry, Buzzfeed, and Dropout TV. Amy, welcome to the show. Hey. Oh, you reading that makes me want to edit my bio. Um... Like, that's long. But I i do have ah i do have a document that has like 30 different bios. And so I try to choose the one that fits the best. And it's like, oh, we might need another one. We might need 31. completely sympathize. I completely sympathize. So.
00:03:46
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Welcome. ah You referred to yourself
Improv Skills in Performance DMing
00:03:49
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as a performance player and a performance DM. And as well as acknowledging your extensive background in improv and sketch comedy, can you tell our listeners how you took what you learned in improv and sketch and brought it to you performance DMing?
00:04:06
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Sure. i you know You and I, it sounds like, have written across mediums, and people are like, i do I am of the persuasion that if you can write one thing, you can actually write all the things, because the main skill in writing is clarity and efficiency. And if you can get your ideas across but quick and clear, like where people know what the hell you're actually saying... then that's it. Like whether it's a song or a joke or even and a narration or game design, everyone wants you to get get the thing, get get to the verbs and the the stuff, the fun stuff as soon as possible. So what how do I bring it to jamming? I think jamming
00:04:48
Speaker
It's prep and improv, and that's it So you're
Preparation vs. Improvisation in DMing
00:04:52
Speaker
writing, it's not even necessarily writing. It's like it's the ideas part of writing and then and then being able to be flexible when rubber hits the road. So in a lot of ways, it's it's easier than improv because you don't have to do it on the spot.
00:05:05
Speaker
And then like your idea like you can front load some pretty good ideas. And then, ah and then yeah you you just are... improvising the whole time. Yeah, i don't don't tell anybody, but that's all you're doing, the whole thing. just making it up as we go. um that's That's fantastic. Yeah, no, I 100% relate to the whole being clear and efficient because as a word nerd, I used to lean more heavily into the sesquipidian loquaciousness and realized That if I was dropping five and $10 words that nobody had an idea what the hell I was talking about, I would lose people. So from that point on, I wrote and spoke to be just easily understood. And I think it's made a real difference just in connecting with people, you know? Yeah. Oh, that's great.
00:06:00
Speaker
um Yeah, i i I guess, yeah, it's, I think, I don't want to say like you have to not use the words that you like, but but it is more of... um yeah like Tolkien got away with it like some people get away with all the descriptions and stuff and it's like but but a lot of times what even in we want to get to the verbs of it all we want to get to like what like playing playing the game not waxing poetic on someone's um what I say this is from God some different different experiences different people but you can't play lore so like stop writing your lore stop stop
00:06:40
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so like Like, have an idea, but you can't you can't physically play it unless what happened a thousand years ago is apropos to right now. And the only stuff in a thousand years ago that is apropos right now, like, that's it. That's all you have to do. You can do everything else. Just, I guess, don't trick yourself into thinking you're prepping for your game if what you're doing is writing lore and world building. Don't just don't trick don't conflate the two you're two. You're doing two different. things. But that's, that's from, that's from, yeah, just different experiences where you're like, I, that's so good. and And you can be good at that. And that's its own little skill. Just don't confuse that you're actually not prepping for your session. If you're doing that.
00:07:24
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Well put, well put. I'm gonna remember that phrase, you can't play lore, ah which makes an absolute ton of sense. um We've also heard the advice and given it before of like, don't walk your players through your novel. um Like they need to be able to have choice and be able to dive in and get to the verbs as you say. There is a point where you like reach saturation of, we get it, we know where we are, we're immersed.
00:07:51
Speaker
can we get to do the things now that you've been telling us about for two and a half or
Game Design Philosophy
00:07:55
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more minutes? Um, because like, in addition to just spinning that story and pulling people in, we also need to give them the reins as soon as possible.
00:08:07
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Yeah, i I didn't know I would be so excited to talk about all of this, um which shouldn't be a surprise. You know, like I should know that I'm excited to talk about this. ah But I say that game design is problem design. So you're actually not designing, you're just designing problems.
00:08:22
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That's true. And you're just, like, your job is is is hurdles that can be overcome, but it also isn't your job to overcome them. It's to let them overcome them. So so if you are game designing, I mean, even in, like, cozy games, like Animal Crossing or whatever, like, you design a problem that then the characters can ah fix in their own way. 100%. 100%.
00:08:47
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hundred percent hundred percent um I would i would ah vehemently, violently agree that game design is problem design, um especially when we're working on something like the Sladium, where entire maps are nothing but death traps and alleys full of monsters and like twists and turns and opportunities to...
00:09:10
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either find great loot or find opportunities to betray the people that are with you. And you say it so well of like, it's not, we don't have to come up with the solutions. We just come up with the problems and give them the tools to get the solutions themselves. And um I've said this before with other about other players, but like I can pre-plan of like a couple, like a handful of different solutions they might grab out of the various pieces and then they'll ignore all of them and do something even more brilliant, which is just endlessly satisfying.
00:09:45
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Yeah, that that is my experience as well. I almost don't even try to Do I try to have some? I guess you do. You kind of can't help yourself um solve your own puzzles. But um but also ah sometimes DMs will ask me like, hey, my it's happened a number of times like my we're we're a few months in and my players aren't really motivated to do the things I'm putting in front of them. And I might fix for that is like, well, how?
00:10:13
Speaker
how mean are you being? Not necessarily to them, but to the world. to the world Like, is is everything just okay? Like, whether they do something or not, are people going to be fine? um It's like, turn the lights off. The sun doesn't work anymore. You know, like, what something make be mean. Like, make the world be a problem like make more problems because um if everything's just kind of okay and there's not then yeah there's not really a motivation to do anything but but you can motivate people by sorry being me like that's 100 how you get them to do things you know absolutely god case in point god you know be god
00:11:00
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Absolutely. Like, no matter what you're writing, whether it's a piece of fiction or a problem for your characters to solve, I have found one of the first things to nail down is understanding what the characters want.
00:11:14
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And by identifying what it is that, like, my table of five strangers want, besides getting out of Barovia in one piece, I can...
00:11:25
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tug them in directions towards getting things done ah by giving them like, oh, it reminds me of my personal vendetta against so-and-so so or, oh, yeah that that that sounds like it might lead to my absentee father, you know, um to to just give them that extra nudge down the road.
00:11:42
Speaker
Yeah, i almost like these days. ah So I don't know if you know, but i I taught a couple of sessions of my dungeon master school where I just give people the what I do, you know, basically. And then people take the class and I'm like, wow, that's crazy that you're taking my class. um But ah but I can't play.
00:12:04
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like yeah, like I don't. I know there there is a sect of people who play TTRPGs for the the mechanics of it, which I do wind up loving the mechanics, especially of D&D. I really love it, but I can't play without character. like i yeah i can't I can't do it. i almost I almost can't game design without character either. um So yeah, I'm i'm happy that you're you're bringing up how to lead via motivation.
00:12:32
Speaker
Mm-hmm. um like I've run tables for people who have never played a game before. And like for the first half hour or so, they might be you know a little stilted, a little stiff with like my character does so-and-s so and so.
00:12:47
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um And like they're making choices, but they're not personal. They're not like getting into it. And that's when I start asking them questions of like, you just saw your friend take somebody's head off. What is going through you right now? You just experienced blah, blah. What are you thinking in that moment? And like, just by lulling them into getting into their character's headspace, that's when the connection happens and we have character and not just people with a character sheet, you know? And by that point, they forget about like the mechanics that they have to worry about and they just get into, well, can I do so-and-so? Is that too shenanigan? And I'm like, let's find out. Let's make it work. Yeah.
00:13:31
Speaker
But ah yes, one of the things I wanted to ask you about is, can you tell us about your dungeon mastering
Amy's Dungeon Mastering School
00:13:37
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school? That sounds really interesting. Oh, hell yeah. um This was an experiment. So this was, what year is it? We're 2025. So this was in 2024. I had just come off of a running goblin mode. um And- Knackbrekka rules.
00:13:51
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Knackbrekka rules. And and i was like, this was such a cool experience. And I went through my own, you know, imposter syndrome. And then i was i just came out going like, God, I actually, people, i don't know if anyone feels like they could never, but I definitely have felt like I could, i me, I couldn't, me, not me, surely, that's not who you want. And then to go through it, be like, oh, wait, I i can,
00:14:21
Speaker
And i I don't like I have, you know, years of experience improvising, writing sketch comedy, performing and acting, um writing TV like and I don't know that in order to DM you need all of those things, but it sure helps me. So let me like disseminate I want to see if I can teach what you need to dungeon master through the eyes of all of these things. And so someone doesn't feel like they have to have the 20 years of entertainment experience in order to do their big thing. Because there's no way you need all of that. So it was just that. And it was...
00:14:59
Speaker
very much the other part of the experiment was like can right now the way people get reps is you gather your group together and you play for four hours and that's a lot so i wonder if i can uh even make that smaller and go let's do reps in 15 minutes of you prepping and prepping something and then dming for 15 minutes and just knowing what that feels like and and doing a combat like a short combat and seeing it what that feels like and so that that was what the class wound up being and i taught it again um this year so the first one was 12 classes long this one was eight classes long and if i do it again i'll do 10 classes because there were some things that i i was like i can cut all this and then um then people were like oh wasn't it fun when when you did this class and i was like i cut that class so the students who were all talking together didn't have and i was like yeah that was really fun and i cut it because i didn't think it was necessary they're like no but it was fun
00:15:53
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, what the fuck was I thinking? Like I was trying to get to like, you need to know a militant almost like you need to know these things. um And they were like, no, but this other thing, i I refer to it all the time. And I'm like, oh, okay. Well, oops, oops on me. I can get pretty i can get pretty intense pretty quickly. um We are all our own worst critics.
00:16:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. ah But it was so lovely. And the thing, the the fun thing about it that came out, so about 10 people took the first class that wound up being, it was a beta version.
00:16:24
Speaker
yeah But it was like, I would do three classes a month. And then the last week, I would like pivot and do whatever I needed to do to the curriculum. And we did it for four months. And so that there were 12 classes. And then this next one was all done in, you know, eight weeks, or yeah, eight weeks all done in two months. And i I guess what I learned that I did not expect this to happen was these people got wildly close and, and like the first kind cadre all went to Gen Con together and and stayed together and they're planning a trip for next year. And it's like, oh nice Oh, I, I did not realize I was going to, and now they all, they started a podcast together. Like, it's very much like, oh I shouldn't be surprised. Cause that's what improv classes do.
00:17:11
Speaker
But that is what happened. And so they they, you know, formed their own little community. And and that was really special. um It wasn't what I, you know, it's not one of those things that I thought, oh, this is what I'll promise. I'll promise you'll make best friends, you know, and then they just kind of all turned into each other's best friends.
00:17:28
Speaker
It was so cool. Yeah. That's awesome. And it's also it sounds so organic, too, which is lovely. i think there's something to do with like, you know, if you're going to take you're a certain type of person, if you want to take a dungeon master class.
00:17:45
Speaker
Breach. and And you're a certain type of person if you want to specifically take dungeon master class from Amy Vorpahl.
00:17:55
Speaker
yeah You're very it's like accurate. I had a friend say there's not a version in my brain that would ever think I needed a dungeon masterclass. Like I would just do it. And I'm like, yeah, but I would have loved it. Like me personally would have loved someone to walk me through just mindset and and or and and what they do like checklists and just and and reps like i would i would have loved that um i think part of dungeon mass you're talking so much you got to build a word bank of just shit that is in your you know the the bow and the stern of a shit you know like there's some things that you just have to come out of your mouth and uh and so
00:18:33
Speaker
it it But anyway, so it was like the certain type of people who found it, took the class. ah They were all we were we were all the same person. So it was nice. That's wonderful. um So was this remote? Was this in person?
00:18:49
Speaker
Yeah, it was over Zoom. um And there were even, i guess the people who were furthest away, there were a couple of Saudi Arabians who took it. And they they're starting their own um like actual play YouTube now, too. That's awesome. so Yeah, very cool. Really, really like i' I keep trying to chant. I'm like this.
00:19:11
Speaker
I don't I don't I feel like I can't take credit for how excellent these people are. You know what I mean? But at the same time, they pass through ah my class. And so I'm just like, yes, look, go do go forth and do this is amazing.
00:19:23
Speaker
I think it's a perfectly natural to recognize and like put aside, quote unquote, any kind of credit for what the students are able to accomplish. But nevertheless, you are the one that aligned them in technique and mindset to the point where they could start, you know, throwing hands and dice and things and like watching sparks ah leap off their fingers. So that's really cool.
00:19:51
Speaker
I think a lot a lot of the classes, um you know, we do it together on Zoom, so it is like performance or like someone's watching um in class. And then I also have assignments that are, ah you know, do that and record it and send it to me and I'll look at it and like watch for patterns or whatever that I think is happening. And And so, i mean, it's like, it's a lot of work for them. It's also, it's a lot of work for them. And it's a lot of work for me too, because the second round had 16 people enrolled. And so I was, I was watching, you know, and I always tell them, please limit it to 15 minutes just for my, for what I can handle. And guys, when you do, yeah you know, like you plan a three hour session, you're going to do a six hour session, but yeah, they go to 20, 25 minutes and I'm like, all right, I'll, you know, I'm going to watch it. Um, But ah anyway, because so much of it was recorded and presented, recorded and presented, so many people got the reps, so so many people started posting on social media. And I think there was, you know, I'm so used to being on camera that I didn't realize that was another bonus too, that like, oh, I thought we were all good with it. We all just record ourselves, right? And that's okay. And there were so many people with performance anxiety and I was like, oh yeah.
00:21:02
Speaker
Well, get over it because that's what being a DM is. And so so people got over it and started posting on social media. Really fun stuff to not just um face to camera like they started expressing themselves. So it was really God. It was just so great. I really i really love that the experiment um worked and and, you know, fed me as much as it did them, too. So I sound like a broken record, but that's flipping cool.
00:21:29
Speaker
Thanks. that's Yeah, I think so, too. There's just that wonderful feedback loop of they feel better about themselves because they've been empowered to express themselves. And you feel fulfilled because you've watched them undertake something with intention and pull it off and start to come out of shells, perchance. yeah that's yeah That's magic.
00:21:51
Speaker
That's magic. One student said, you know, sometimes you just need um someone you look up to to tell you you're doing a good job. And I'm like, hey, yeah. Yes, we are the same person. Yes, 100%.
00:22:07
Speaker
But yeah, no, I think there's something really wise about building a curriculum around things I wish I'd known, um especially with something with as much nuance and technique that can be involved with dungeon dungeon mastery, um which is just awesome, awesome.
Amy's Musical Show
00:22:26
Speaker
um So before we go any further, please tell our audiences all about your upcoming musical show, She's Got Non-Player Character Energy.
00:22:37
Speaker
i I've already chipped in on the Kickstarter. I hope our listeners can do the same. um But ah by all means, give us the spiel. Tell us what it's about. Tell us where the idea came from, where you're taking it, all of the things.
00:22:52
Speaker
amazing yeah thank you uh so it's this was an idea i had like five years ago and i i i really i did a reading of it last december and i would say i had maybe three had meant more song whatever it but it was i didn't God, how did this come to be? It's like, I just got tired of not having it in the world. i guess that's it it. Like not doing it wore me down. um And I just realized, wow, I can really keep not doing this. Like this, this is fine. Like my life is fine without it. And so I'll just keep going. And I was like, yeah, but I kind of owe it to myself to try um and make this And
00:23:38
Speaker
And then the Kickstarter was born of just I had done a Kickstarter before. And there's something about being a little bit surveilled. like i Like now I have accountability and ah a deadline. and you know so what it is, it's a story. It's a narrative musical where I'm going to play all the parts about a non-player character ah who is just an idea in the dungeon master's brain, just like all the other NPCs there. Everyone is just an idea in the dungeon master's brain. And boy, do they want to get put into the game. And everyone knows that that's the hierarchy here. Like if you're in the game, you're wanted, you're chosen. The dungeon master wants you.
00:24:18
Speaker
the players interact with you. There's there's something special about that. And then there are some that just don't ever get used. They just remain ideas. And so our lead character once is like, im I'm going to get put into the game. And I'm not going to be just like a Kevin, Jeff, Steve, Bob, who just like materializes. I'm going to be prepped. I'm going to be like the best NPC. and There's a whole song about how she's going to learn kind of be every NPC. Bless you.
00:24:46
Speaker
i mess you But she's like going to learn all the skills and and she she even says like, I'm going to learn how to change my species. Oh, no, no. That's the one thing I won't do. I won't change my, I'll just i'll just be a human lady and that's all right. We don't need me to change my species. Okay, great. So it's like she'll do everything. She'll like pretzel herself into so many different ways. And then in the end, like, you know, spoiler alert or halfway through, she gets into the game.
00:25:13
Speaker
and then And then she ah gets killed because she's so random and wild and the dungeon master wields her poorly. And she discovers that she's a one-off character. So what does that mean? And that'll be the that's the second act. Just an hour long, but it's like, God, how do you how do you come to grips with like god being chosen is great and it also can't like you can't be chosen every second of your life so what do you do in the meantime like who are you in the meantime being chosen is a wonderful thing to have happen and and i hate the term choosing yourself because i no longer know what the fuck that means um it's i think been overused but it is like
00:25:52
Speaker
who Who are you, what do you stand for, and how is that manifested in your life? And so it's the the second act is a little a little more serious, but um but it it just goes into those themes. And i I don't know, that's just what's kind of been on my mind, and you know being in the entertainment industry in general. um it's it i know one of the reasons I haven't done this show is because i it's scary. It's hard to say.
00:26:19
Speaker
it's hard when you're not chosen. You know, like, yeah yes, I'm chosen in so many avenues, but the entertainment industry has gone down and ways that I have earned a living before aren't the same anymore. And I have made that mean something about myself when that's not rational or helpful. And it's scary to it's scary to say any of that. Like you want to put on the face that like, I'm fine. Look, I'm fine. And I don't need you. And and look i'm look, I'm not desperate. at all. And when in reality, the the industry is such that there you can't help it. so No, no.
00:26:57
Speaker
no But as i as I tell more and more people, I'm realizing I'm not this like you know insane person who just needs a lot of therapy. It's like, no, the design of our world is this, which is great. and and then And then also you do have to kind of have your own back too. But for a long time, God, I don't know if this was your experience, but things were things were fine. Like I was fine. and And then the last four or five years have been really different. So yeah. yeah
00:27:29
Speaker
A couple of things. Number one, you are not crazy. ah The working definition I use of crazy is someone that tries the same thing over and over again, expecting the same results. And that is clearly not you. um Just on the bio alone to say nothing of the writing you've done. You pivot too often to be crazy. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. No, that's the word of the year. The pivot. ah Yes. Yeah. it was Oh boy.
00:27:57
Speaker
But you do bring up an interesting thing that as creatives, especially creatives in Hollywood, that a lot of us may have gone through or are going through.
Creative Career Advice
00:28:07
Speaker
um And I'd like to share, if I can, a perspective shift that I experienced that helped me. Yeah.
00:28:16
Speaker
Because when I got here about seven, eight years ago, um i was ghostwriting a lot. I was writing to be I was hired to to be writing. And i was also devoting time to my own pilot scripts or feature scripts and things like that. and would go to like networking events and things and have this very transactional headspace of, well, I'm going introduce myself to this person and they're going to see how I can be helpful to them and going to see that they can be helpful to me. and we're going to be, um I guess we'll become friends if that happens by accident. Great. um
00:28:51
Speaker
And did not get anywhere for years and did not know exactly what it was I was doing wrong. And all through this time, I was like yourself trying different things. I was writing screenplays. I was writing television. I was writing murder mysteries. I wrote a intergrade of like the characters, like 12, you know, um and like learned different things from all of these different types of writing and things. um But the approach of like, I've got this script, I have this need because I need so-and-so in order to execute it. um And there is that that that whiff of need, of neediness, of like desperation, I think was the word. but Like, please help me because I can't do this alone. um
00:29:40
Speaker
And I stopped thinking like that. I leaned more into ah dungeon mastery, went pro and leaned into game design and have been building an audience over the last year and change now with a different headspace. of not at all come see this thing that I need you to be involved in. It's I'm making something awesome. I think you would enjoy it.
00:30:08
Speaker
Come give it a try. And yeah that's the energy of the parties here, whether you are here or not, the party will be great. But if you want to come to a cool party, you're welcome. Yeah.
00:30:19
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. And that shift has made all the difference. Like metaphysical, metaphorical doors are opening in my life and career because of that perception shift and also just a change in what I am doing. And to our listeners that are creatives that either are in LA or aspire to be there. And like, God knows there are enough types of writing careers that don't require you to have proximity to major fault lines.
00:30:48
Speaker
ah Do the thing, and if it's not working, try a slightly different version of the thing, and then try another one, and then try another one. Like, if you don't feel like you're getting somewhere with what you're doing, shake it up. Try a different version, because you may be like just 10 short degrees away from a version of what you want to do that really works. and i remember clinging to this idea for the longest time of like well i'm a screenwriter i know what i am and i need to make my money this way and i need to identify myself this way and the more i was able to let go of that narrow alley of like well i know what i'm doing i know who i am i know what i have to do to make a living and open up to other opportunities i i have started to flourish and that has felt
00:31:40
Speaker
really heckin' good, and I want our audience to be able to share in a similar experience so that they don't just keep hitting their heads against the wall, trying the same thing over and over again, and not getting anywhere.
00:31:56
Speaker
You know? Yeah. Yeah. I think I don't have really anything to add to that. That's amazing. That's really sweet advice. And it's very hard, like wholehearted advice. And um I know, i know that not everyone is out here trying to be a face of something, you know, like, I, I do, i am a person who needs to be on a stage and needs needs to sing a song and have applause like that. That is someone who I just know that, like, you got to feed the beast and and that beast is loud sometimes. So but I know that not everyone has that. And it's just but but it doesn't matter like what what you like, whatever you're doing. like Creativity is enough for enough sake, I will say and I have been disagreed with this, but I i wholeheartedly believe this, that
00:32:45
Speaker
if you don't extrovert your art, you actually are a taker. You have taker energy because it is, it is a gift.
00:32:55
Speaker
And if you are withholding it out of fear, which normally that's what it is, or another reason that's taker energy. What the fuck are you doing? Like you, it, you don't necessarily have to do it on social media, but if you don't share your art with people, um, I don't get, I, I, I don't,
00:33:13
Speaker
I guess like the the only argument that I've heard is just like, what if I make it for myself and I still i still default to my thing? Like that's take our energy, man. you've You've been given a gift. like why Just because you're you have you if you can heal someone, if you heal yourself, do you think you've done enough?
00:33:32
Speaker
don't you think you should go out and heal other people? That's what I think that I just really like, I, it that's the metaphor. And obviously it's like pretty intense and diabolical, but it's how i it it truly is how I feel. And I've, I've been on the receiving end of my own advice too. Like just, you have to, like you, you, what are you doing? You're going keep this to yourself, you selfish person. Yeah.
00:33:57
Speaker
Can you expand on that? You call it taker energy. And while I have an idea of what taker energy means, if someone is just keeping all their creativity and stuff to themselves, what are they taking?
00:34:09
Speaker
Well, you know, like when there is a lack of some or like the the the opposite of you know God, I don't know. The opposite of giving is taking the opposite of having a thing is like the negative space that it creates if it weren't there.
00:34:25
Speaker
um So it's it's like, yeah, you you are you are physically. I mean, ah it's so intense. i i I can't believe I'm saying this in public. I say this to my community, but I guess since I believe it, I may as well say it that like you are, yes, obviously you're hoarding. You're not putting something out where there could be. Sure. i believe that whatever you do...
00:34:47
Speaker
is a permission slip for other people to do the same whatever like so if you if you are withholding your art you are giving permission for other people to withhold their art if you are being out there being bright and shiny you are a permission slip that it's safe and fine and good to be bright and shiny and so if you if you hold on to your stuff now others are holding on to their stuff and now it's just it's it's just a ah downhill spiral where we're we're people who may may not necessarily see you or watch you, like the energy though, is that, oh, I can i can just take, i can yeah, I can take from the world. i feel like, I don't know. It's a bad explanation because it's i know it's so much metaphor, but it is it does feel like you're taking from the world and yeah not giving back.
00:35:36
Speaker
It's an imbalance. I get that, I'm picking up on it. um I do feel like it was reasonably well explained. I'm gonna one step further and say beyond the hypothetical of like, you have the option of giving back and sharing your creativity. i am giving you permission, if permission needs to be given, to go out and do the thing. You have the blessing of someone you've never met.
00:36:05
Speaker
bully you have the encouragement if not the impetus to go and do the thing make it happen because no one else is going to do it for you that is another thing I've learned uh the hard way probably is not coming to save you unfortunately no I spent a long time in my life thinking that they would They don't, though, as it turns out. No. ah Gondor can call for aid, but ah the wizard and the backup aren't coming until you can prove you don't need them, which is an irony of itself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. oh my God. oh wow. Thank you for talking to me in words that I understand. Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. There's there's this is another thing that ah that can help our DMs. But um like if you talk with someone and they start showing you who they are with their sense of humor, with the vocabulary, you can mirror that back to them.
00:37:08
Speaker
and have more of a resonance as you get on the same wavelength with one another like, oh, we are speaking the same language and the same dialect and everything like that. yeah um And it can be done by accident and it can be done with intention. um But you're 100% welcome. You're absolutely welcome.
00:37:28
Speaker
Yes. I don't know ah why this reminded me of another thing that I i really like talking about is comedy. Okay, please. And what funny is slash sense of humor.
00:37:39
Speaker
Because because it is a lot of people, especially this comes up in like dating advice a lot too, just because people are always like, I want someone funny. And like, or I want someone with a good sense of humor. And that can be so subjective. But but what it it's like, what what you're you're not actually so so, you know, because everyone knows that that's what people want is they're like, fuck, now I got to go learn how to be funny. And it's like, no, no, no, you actually it's it's not it's that language is. um
00:38:12
Speaker
it's it's semantics but what everyone's talking about is delight actually and like when stand-ups are are very funny or joke writers are very funny like what they're actually what you're tapping into why you are able to laugh together or whatever is someone who is willing to delight and willing to be delighted and and even that's still subjective but at least it doesn't require training and i don't i don't actually believe that funny necessarily requires training there's there's ever like for anybody i think everybody's funny but like it's it's but that's because we have this natural um sense of play and we
Delight in Gaming vs. Pressure to be Funny
00:38:48
Speaker
we basically when we're talking to each other we just want to go like hey want to play do do you want to play do you want to play right now would you play with me like and that that i think can take a lot of pressure off if you just stop if you just don't think of the word of ah the words as funny or like the dungeon master has to be funny or i want to create a funny experience where everyone's laughing it's like change it to delight just change it to delight
00:39:11
Speaker
My favorite definition of laughter is a smile you cannot keep to yourself. And to hear you inject delight as the cause of that yeah clicks for me.
00:39:24
Speaker
So 100%, 100% agreement there. But don't you think it can sound very like, oh my God, ah funny. Funny sounds hard somehow. Funny sounds like dance monkey dance. Funny sounds like, God, you know, a switch that you have to flip on. Whereas Delight- Funny makes people nervous because it has so many definitions to so many different people because of how subjective it can be Delight, I know what Delight is.
00:39:51
Speaker
It's a way of being. like you you can You can generate Delight. You can generate Delight by doing by doing by like action in the world, almost doing nothing and just ah being Delight. you know like you can You can decide to Delight. like It's just a decision. You can be full of Delight and become Delightful.
00:40:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's it. Yes. Yes. Outstanding. Outstanding. So on the topic of delightful things, in addition to all this amazing comedy work, you've also written for official D&D books like Candlekeep Mysteries and Fizben's Treasury of Dragons. You've written RPG adventures.
00:40:30
Speaker
How did you venture into that? And what did you learn as you did it? I ah had written a couple of adventures for my friend David Crennan, who runs and owns Dungeon in a Box, which is ah a service that I just recommend for everybody, especially new DMs.
00:40:48
Speaker
um Every month you get a full adventure and everything you need to run it, including maps and minis. Oh, sick. At a very, very affordable price, like I think 25, 30 bucks a month. um Bespoke Dungeon Adventures can be yours.
00:41:01
Speaker
Yes, yes. i So I had written one for him and then I wrote another. And then this is all over the course of maybe like a couple of years, this whole tale. And then Chris Perkins tweeted who I had met and played a game with at a con um on camera. But he had tweeted like, hey, anyone out here in my circle have, you know, have experienced writing adventures? And I just responded, to me, I have written a couple And then about a year later, I got an email that was like, would you write adventure for us? And I was like, do do you have the right email address? Like this? but Are you trying? You you mean Amy Vorpahl, not Amy Dorpahl or Mordahl? Yeah, right, right. There's a lot of us.
00:41:43
Speaker
Yeah, it was this lovely man named Bill, and he was like, no, we want you. And so it just was like... And then and then I submitted my idea. got a got a Actually, the word... God, I still keep this. He was like, this sounds delightful, which is crazy to think about that we've just had that discussion. But his like Chris Perkins' like review of my pitch was, this sounds delightful, start writing it. Isn't that crazy? um And then... i think it makes perfect sense. and Yeah, and then I wrote it, and then...
00:42:13
Speaker
I got it. And then I got basically a lot of notes back that were basic basically a page one rewrite. And I couldn't look at it for a week because it hurt my feelings so much. And then when I did look at it, it was almost like a boot camp in how to write an adventure. Like the way that he dissected everything, I was like, oh, oh, got it.
00:42:36
Speaker
um The big shift for me was... that you are writing, you're you're writing an Ikea manual, you're not writing a story.
00:42:48
Speaker
no so you're absolutely right. So it's like, your your mystery, that everything you think is fun about your adventure, you need to say in the very first four sentences, because the dungeon master needs to know what's fun, where the twists and turns are, and they need to know it now. They need to know it now, because they're gonna be they're goingnna be the ones obscuring the veil for the players but i i had written it there were so many things wrong with the way i wrote it um i had been like i don't know if the guys in this room then this is gonna happen and he's like if the guys know like you have you ah the the mindset was you when you're writing you have to be finite so that the dungeon master can be infinite and do the improv and that is
00:43:37
Speaker
so less fun. I will say it like, right, it's so much less fun to write to write adventures than to play them. But you do have to be crystal clear and you have to make definitive decisions without hypotheticals, um minus the end and the aftermath and all of that. there can And there can be so you know some caveats, but but it's like you have to be so specific and finite about this These people are here. This is what they do. This is the building, scaffolding, whatever. And then the dungeon master can do what you do, which is take what you need and spit out the bones and fill in the rest.
00:44:14
Speaker
And i I didn't like it but but it has helped my DMing actually, because it made me go like, oh, I have to make decisions. And then and like, I make a decision and then I release the wheel to the players. And then I make the next decision and release the wheel.
00:44:31
Speaker
um as opposed to, I think, how I, I don't know how I was doing it beforehand, but it felt, it feels good now. I like, I like, I didn't like writing it. I like having written it. And now I actually do like writing adventures because I see, I see, you know, the macro has grown and the beautiful mind of it all. You know, you can zoom in and zoom out and be like, i think this is what they would, this is what I would do with it, but I can only write this down and and just, you know,
00:44:56
Speaker
leave it leave it alone and let them and go and the reason sorry the reason is because um you don't have access as you're writing you don't have access to player characters and they're the main characters so you can't write you can't write story because you don't have access to the main characters how the fuck are you going to write story without main characters so you just have to write up the ikea manual that the the characters interact with I think that depends, I know might've been a rhetorical question, but I honestly think that depends on the setting and the nature of the adventure in question. Because my experience has been that you can set up a scenario where no matter which characters are put into it, they're gonna have the same goal of either get the hell off this island or get the hell out of this ah fighting tournament.
00:45:47
Speaker
Like those are the two primary ones. um But also like having run certain modules I've written for like Doctor Who or D&D and run them a number of times and seen how characters, you know, like materialize in their TARDIS and step out and discover the same things, the same gingerbread crumbs that are around.
00:46:09
Speaker
to lead them to make similar decisions as the people before them, even though they can make delightful ah choices along the way that surprised the hell out of me. And I'm smiling just thinking about it.
00:46:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. that i i so yeah That's definitely you know with some
Player Agency in RPGs
00:46:28
Speaker
caveats. But the the flip of the switch was definitely like, I can't bury leads.
00:46:34
Speaker
um I can't expect these things you know to happen. if Towards the end, I can pick one of three paths and hope one of those three things is decided on and give some aftermath of that. And then And then otherwise it is a scaffolding for them to feel like they're, you know, pushing the buttons and and ideally trying to break things. I will say in my, in the candle keep one, there's a, you know, there's a big thing, a big reveal. And, and have you read it by the way, or do you know what I'm talking about?
00:47:11
Speaker
i have, I've glanced at it. It's on my pile. No worries. okay. I mean, I'm a DM. It's going to be a spoiler when I try to run it anyway. So please, by all means. That's true. for listening or watching, anyway, there's a big reveal and there's a magic item that would severely inhibit this reveal like that, like end the game kind of.
00:47:31
Speaker
And I put it in my adventure because I was like, fuck it. Let's, you know, like put that, put the thing in that breaks the game. Cause I like that. And they took it out. And so it's not in there anymore. And anytime I run it, I put it back in because I'm like, if like, what's the the worst that could happen is yeah, it breaks the game, but that doesn't mean the story's over. And I like when that happens. I like the, i like giving them the thing that makes them feel like, oh yeah, well I'm going to be a little stinker. And I'm like, yeah, be a little stinker. I'll figure something out But they took it out. More fools them ah for for for limiting your input. But honestly, like if you're running a table and they're having fun, you're doing it right.
00:48:15
Speaker
Yeah. That is the ultimate takeaway. takeaway Yeah. And then the Fizzbans thing came about because they were looking for someone. They were like, who who would be, who would have, ah because what I wrote in Fizzbans was the flavor text of like what I called wizard tweets, like what Fizzban wrote. And I just want to play the character Fizzban. And they thought of me because they were like who's kind of like, who would be good at comedy? Because Fizzban's kind of a comedic character. And they got little me to fill in the gaps.
00:48:48
Speaker
Who's good at delight? Who's good at delight? Oh my god. oh my god. Might be me. the That needs to go into one of the bios of like an expert at delight.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yeah, although that that might be a high promise. I mean, I know that is like who I am, but i can't. You don't want you. You want to. You want to. you want to You want to leave yourself some room to surprise them.
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah, under promise, over deliver. Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. Okay. If requested, can do delight. Yeah. Delight available on request. And then a shruggy emoji. Yeah, they're just like... Value of delight may be subjective.
00:49:33
Speaker
Yes, exactly. So I did want to mention your song, IDM. Oh, It may have become a like a song of power for me. so john Let's go. go.
00:49:49
Speaker
No, absolutely. i mean, you get it. You just get it It's... it's it's That's magical. Rest assured, we will be putting links to all of these things in the doobly-doo, listeners and viewers. So you will be able to click on a thing and go to the song IDM, which is delightful. I actually shared it with my Discord earlier today of like, y'all need to hear this. This is for all my DMs.
00:50:16
Speaker
Go. Oh, thank you. I like sharing good stuff. Yeah, thank you. That was on my latest album. And I that was the song I put the most ah intention behind. I want to say it was like the it it wound up.
00:50:32
Speaker
It's hard to tell, like how long things take, but it was the one that I was like, I need I need a DM's anthem. because I had written on my first album, the DM's Lament, which is just all the gripes and grievances of DM's. And that one went, that one did really well. But I was like, you're choosing to be, it's leadership. So you're choosing to be a leader. And that's really great. Like the world needs more leaders. The the world definitely needs fewer reluctant leaders and and more people like stepping in their own power and saying like, not in a toxic way, but but going, yeah, I'm a leader and and I have something to give. And if there's something
00:51:08
Speaker
I don't know. it was It was a lot about my journey and I was like, well, this this could... Because you can't create without the demons. You can't like grow without the growing pains. And so I wanted i really yeah did want a celebratory anthem that's like, screw y'all. I'm just going to do it my way.
00:51:28
Speaker
Which honestly can be the best way. no you're absolutely welcome. Yeah, you know what? Creating out of spite is still creating. So... I say that to myself a lot too. Very much, very much. like Prove the haters wrong. Prove them wrong. Not only prove the haters wrong, but prove your own past insecurities wrong.
00:51:52
Speaker
There's this wonderful book, The Alter Ego Effect, ah an author's name TBD because I cannot remember. But basically it's about adopting the headspace of a character you connect with so that you can do things that you and your primary headspace don't think you can do.
00:52:09
Speaker
Oh my god, that's so anime, isn't it It's anime point of view. It is a very anime point of view. It is also like a real life thing people have done.
00:52:21
Speaker
Bo, I want to say Jackson was the football player who also had a career in baseball. So now we're getting into a territory. I truly know nothing about. I'll keep it short. It's just an alcove. for But The author of this book was a professional coach, not only for athletes, but for, you know, business owners and things like that. And he sat down with Bo and said, OK, you've had record breaking numbers of touchdowns. How did you do it? And Bo looked him in the eye and says, that wasn't me.
00:52:52
Speaker
That was Jason Voorhees. And like the controlled rage of the hockey mask wearing killer from all the Friday the 13th movies who can break people in half, storm through doors, you know, show up behind you at a moment's notice was all perfectly controlled and nothing could stop him.
00:53:14
Speaker
So, Beau internalized that character of, I'm going to use the exact right amount of force I need to be unstoppable, to push these things out of my way, and not kill them, to just plow right through.
00:53:28
Speaker
And that stayed with me. so that when, ah after doing some soul searching and getting past certain internal blocks of like, oh, I don't really get to have that, or I shouldn't really be putting myself forward in that way. I finally asked myself like, okay, if we are genuinely trying to impress ourselves,
00:53:51
Speaker
What does that look like and who do we consult? And my inner mastermind, this criminal mastermind with experience building empires and entertaining people to death and things like that was like, I'll help.
00:54:04
Speaker
And he became the architect of what I'm working on now. And he just didn't stop. Because like where I might say, that's that's good. He's like, there's never good enough.
00:54:17
Speaker
There is never enough. We must always keep pushing. we must always keep pressing. We must always be advancing the line. And just kept building and building and building. Like, holy crap. Like, yes, I know. You did that. Now let's do some more. And like that headspace of the the ambitious inner mastermind has been a huge help ah with like writing the things I didn't think I could do, you know? Yeah, yeah. So you're saying you've gotta be a little bit sociopathic.
00:54:46
Speaker
Got it. Yeah, yeah. Just a soup song. A soup song of sociopath. I love it, I love it. Oh, that's so great. What a good practice. I'll have to figure out who my who i person is.
00:55:00
Speaker
I mean, I'm sure you've played her, him, or them at some point. There's gotta to be one of those dozens of voices in there that like, you know what? This gives me an idea, an evil idea. yeah etc Yes. Yes.
00:55:19
Speaker
Absolutely. yeah So while we have you, I admit to being incredibly curious. What was it like in the dome? What was it like playing in games like escape from the blood keep? What was it like running your own season of geek and sundry with Murtis where knack Brecca rules? Like tell us, share that singular experience that only a handful of people have had. Cause I'm dying to know.
00:55:42
Speaker
Um, I mean, everything you're imagining is correct. Like it's, it's delay was so good. I, I swear to God, it was like, you know, after, after goblin mode, after that season was over, I literally hired a life coach because I was like, whatever that was, I want more of it, whatever, whatever it was, I need to do more of it because it was,
00:56:04
Speaker
a Manna from God. Like I, you know, I will say doing Escape from the Bloodkeep, we were the first um side quest. We were the first side quest. Also, you know, little known fact, probably may maybe more widely known, but I knew Brennan because he was the i'm actually question writer when I was on the couch many seasons.
00:56:27
Speaker
And and so in the time that I've known him, he's like, you know, become I mean, he's always been that person, but it was it was very. Now other people know him now. Yeah, yeah. And and the reason there was this moment after one I'm actually episode where it was me, Mercer, Murph.
00:56:49
Speaker
And I think, and then Trap and Brennan, but but it was all of us standing at the elevators waiting to go to our car parking lot. And we just stood there. Like we didn't go on the elevator because we were like, wow, you love D&D so much. And we were just having like the nerdiest D&D conversation. It was just like passionate nerds um who had had known of each other and but didn't know that ah like our love of it went so deep.
00:57:15
Speaker
And And it was, yeah, really magical. so So the fact that we were all playing that one game, I look back on that as like, wow, I took that for granted. I had no idea. i had no idea what I had at the moment.
00:57:29
Speaker
And it was it it was amazing to be at a table like with Brennan running the game, but it was also amazing to be, yeah you know, it was definitely, i also feel like we got to play the campaign that Brennan had been sitting on for 25 years. You know, like he had probably imagined that concept and and had that plan for a while. That's how it felt.
00:57:50
Speaker
And so to be a part of that, I definitely think I was, I didn't know, you know, you just don't know until until later. And then the, just the superstars at the table who were involved in the storytelling as well were like,
00:58:04
Speaker
Oh my God, like, like really, truly the best of the best. So yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know magical. and And I think in that moment, I, I, I, from, from my just hindsight, I definitely took it for granted and did not know what we had.
00:58:21
Speaker
And then Goblin Mode was, I think, not my first time. It was my first time DMing on camera for 20 episodes. Like, that's true.
00:58:31
Speaker
It wasn't my first time DMing. It wasn't my first time DMing on camera, but it was my first time being responsible for a whole ass thing. And... Do you know what I mean, though? like i i I do. I do. And i don't I had done home games.
00:58:46
Speaker
Had I done home games longer than that as a DM? Maybe. But like that even is a little different. And this felt like show running, man. like it was It was so cool and good. And and i I really liked...
00:59:00
Speaker
where we landed. I really like, I really like just the stuff I even, i don't know, just made myself do. We had, and the wrenches that were thrown, like, hey, Amy, um tomorrow we're adding one of these guests. Can you do, can you add a guest? And I'm like, yep.
00:59:15
Speaker
Yep. ken now Can now. We can make it about that. We can like give them a lot of play space too. And the emails I would send to these guests that were so like almost too much information. And, and it was all wonderful. Like I, I really did hire a life coach and was like, Hey, this was great. How do i how do i live my life in this mode? Yeah. Incredible. Incredible. Yeah. No, I,
00:59:39
Speaker
A couple of things. Number one, I have had similar experiences on stage with a theatrical production where everyone brought their A-game and everyone was perfectly selected for their role or their job or their position. So like there was that confluence of like everyone is is is just perfectly suited for exactly where they are. And then it is over. And you you feel that like, oh, my God, that really was something special, wasn't it?
01:00:11
Speaker
And like you, you sit and you like, number one, am I ever going to recapture that again? Number two, what is that going to be like when it does?
01:00:21
Speaker
Will I recognize it when it happens again? Um, so like, I think there's something of a shared experience there. Um, The other thing I wanted to say, as someone who has written entire seasons of television, produced or otherwise, and had to build the arc and had to lay out, okay, this is going to happen so that B can happen, so that C can happen, so that D reminds people of A, and then E and F and G,
01:00:47
Speaker
um and like have the the the short range, keep one eye on the short range, on the short term of like, okay, here's what is going to happen today versus here's where we are leading to three months from now.
01:01:02
Speaker
h And to be able to turn that into game writing, to turn that into a season of an actual play and give that to players to explore, to run around in, to fail sometimes and reckon with like, oh, oh, the planet's blown up.
01:01:23
Speaker
Okay. um Well, holy shit. hey Yeah. ah Okay. And then have that stay with them the rest of the season of like, because of your actions, you did not stop a planet from blowing up.
01:01:38
Speaker
People died because of choices you made and did not make. And that impacted their choices the rest of the, the rest of the, I say season, because it was a season. um But like, if...
01:01:52
Speaker
our listeners and our viewers, if you're going to commit to like building out either a season of an actual play or even a campaign with a start and a middle and an end and things like it is tricky because on the one hand,
Planning Campaigns and Engagement Strategies
01:02:08
Speaker
you're not writing a novel. You cannot dictate start to finish what is going to happen because your players, if they know what they're doing, will surprise you. That's that's half the fun.
01:02:17
Speaker
But like, to to come up with like a dozen to 20 of these open ended things and like, well, this is going to lead us in that direction, I hope, which will lead us in that direction, I hope, which will lead us in that direction, I hope. um It is. It is it is a juggling act of its own that is that is just freaking delightful it's just freaking yeah as far as advice goes if you're if you do like because for goblin the one thing i will say that you can do that will be in your favor if you can't really see the forest through the trees decide the macro decide where you think maybe it'll and end up and then decide geographies
01:02:56
Speaker
If just decide geographies, environments, that'll that'll help because then you'll just know that, oh, if they didn't go, that we'll move, you know. And then um and then choose, ah what was I going to say? Yeah, macro geographies.
01:03:14
Speaker
Oh, and then for every, like, figure out a fraction you like. For me, it's kind of one-sixth. So at one out of every six episodes or or a chunk that you think you have to prep, one of them don't. That's a freebie, and you don't know how you're going to use it.
01:03:30
Speaker
you don't Like, don't even plan, because you're going to need it, you know? Like, like if if you need it to be episodic in a certain way, like, one, one you should leave blank in case of...
01:03:42
Speaker
emergency or in case of shopping montage or, you know, like like following, following what's, what really is fun where they feel like this is uncharted territory. There's always a way to get back on track. But I, I, to me, it's like, you know, you, you write it down, you feel like it's sacred. And um if you don't write it down, then, then it isn't. And I, that was just, it was always,
01:04:06
Speaker
really helpful to be like, we'll go, we'll we'll do, we'll do what we do. Like, like it doesn't yeah have to be. And I will say mine, these episodes were like, shoot for two hours to be edited down to an hour and a half so it was it wasn't like you know six hours or anything like that but don't know anybody that does shows like that our runtime yeah that would be yeah you might need to prep but hey that's interesting i might ask you the same question my friend um is dming and he was like hey do you do you prep two hours for every one hour of game time and i was like
01:04:40
Speaker
Not in a million years. I prep. I think I just on average prep for two hours and that can get me through kind of anything just but but I also like I also understand that my knowledge of what the game is and and how how time works and what people will spend time doing is like I just have experience with that. So but but I'm curious, do you have a I was like, who's telling you to prep for two hours for one hour of like, I guess if you need to learn the rules,
01:05:11
Speaker
that's what I would spend the extra hour doing is like learning rules if I didn't know them. but But beyond that, why would you like, I don't, I don't, why you would prep for two hours for one hour of game time?
01:05:22
Speaker
I don't prep for a given set of time. i prep for beats. um There's a wonderful model um of gameplay I'm going to bring up because I'm running a game later today. um Where it's not um a question of how much time are we playing in? Because I run games that last three hours. I run games that last four. um And in both cases, they start with situation number one. They move on to event number one. They slip into situation number two.
01:05:59
Speaker
They get into event number two. They find themselves in situation number three. And somewhere in all of this mix, there has been combat, one hopes, um which leads to an ending where either they've learned something, accomplished something, failed something, or wound up in a cliffhanger because I am a sucker for cliffhangers.
01:06:19
Speaker
But, like, I run games several times a week that are three hours and will come in for a landing right at that three-hour spot of like, and that!
01:06:31
Speaker
is where we're going to pause you today in water deep dragon heist. And like, and that is when you feel the dagger sticking into your back in the Barovian alleyway. And we'll see you next week. And like, maybe it's just like, just years upon years of doing it. But like, I go for beats so that when I have my table and I play with them- I do too, but what does the time look like? Cause he was specifically asking how much time does it take you prep?
01:07:01
Speaker
Like per hour of gameplay. And I was like, that doesn't, mean like that doesn't, I don't have a this to this ratio. It just normally takes me about two hours regardless whether I'm home brewing everything or I'm reading, yeah, The Curse of Strahd and trying to memorize these goddamn NPCs and all of their similar sounding names. Like it all it all merges into about two hours for me. But but do you have a,
01:07:30
Speaker
ah Like this much prep equals this much. or Or do you have, have you timed it? um i have I use Pomodoros. I use Pomodoros of like a 50 minute window of concentrated effort where I'm not on, I'm not checking my mail. I'm not on discord. I'm not wasting time on Reddit and just spend 50 minutes on a thing, take a 10 minute break and then do another hour.
01:07:53
Speaker
um Typically at this point I can get through prep for and a game of something that is someone else's work like Waterdeep or Curse of Strahd and be done in 50 minute window and have the recap so that our players know where they where they were and get back into the zone.
01:08:17
Speaker
Have that seven that six or seven layout of event, situation, event, situation, event, situation. um and make sure the maps are populated with the monsters they could run into or NPCs they could run into. Make sure the music is set up so that I know what I can click on because I love immersion. um But here's what I freaking love. ah There's also the things I homebrew and I use permanent prep.
01:08:44
Speaker
where, for instance, with the Sladium, we have 20 of these different arenas with different environments like the Wintry Wasteland or the Jurassic Jungle or the Crushing Caverns, for instance. And for each of those, there are five ways in. There are monsters in any given...
01:09:04
Speaker
wedge of that experience they can run into and based on the player's choices, they're going to go into one of those. But because i have set these things up and gotten the maps ready and gotten the soundtracks ready and everything like that, I only need 10 minutes at most to prep for a four hour game of the Sladium um if it's a one off. And it's just like, okay, you're going into Minotaur's maze number three today. We'll go with, go have fun. Here are your NPCs to play with. Here are the routes you can choose from and have a different experience every time. But by coming up with permanent prep that I can come back to again and again, i save myself some time.
01:09:48
Speaker
That's very cool. Yeah, I don't have anything like that. So I spend, I wonder, cause I spend most of my time Whether it's a one-shot or not, I'll do my own kind of... i just... I can't help myself, but I'll do my own encounter design, and it'll always be like... like you choose But it's like always three-tiered. It's like the fight the fight, the secondary objective, the tertiary objective, and and they all might work together or not, or just like ways to end the battle early, or ways for them to feel like they're sneaky when really like you knew that that was possible the whole time, or... you know like like just things that are because i'm i'm realizing i don't know i don't even know what i i well let tell me this because as i'm speaking about dnd but i have so i have to play this game with 18th level characters and and you know examine i looked at all their character sheets and i'm like
01:10:47
Speaker
I don't think higher levels equals higher fun. I just, and maybe I'm a fucking like grognard person, but I'm like, less a lessa grognard. Actually, maybe I'm just like a a story, a story whore, you know? And I'm like, and or an like a role play. We're whores for story. let's let's yeah Let's call a spade a spade.
01:11:05
Speaker
Yeah, but but it's like these these extra mechanics, like I don't know. There's like a wizard spell that basically is just like, I know everything. Like you just cast it and you just know everything. And you're like, okay.
01:11:17
Speaker
Is it omniscience? I never remember what it is. but That's just the word that means I know everything. Yeah, yeah. Oh, totally. but there And it's just like the dungeon master just has to tell you what the heck is going on. And you're like, okay. Including puzzles, like including the answers. That's really boring.
01:11:35
Speaker
I know, but that's what I mean. It's like, I don't think higher levels equals higher fun. And okay, great. We're in an agreement. Okay, great. I was just having this conversation with another DM and and it was like, yeah, like I know we want to level up and all of that, but there gets to a point where you're like, well, if you can just...
01:11:53
Speaker
change the thing I prepped to be, you know, like instead of playing in this layer, now we're in the clouds and this is where we are now and it's your home base. Okay. I guess you can just do that now and, you know, fine. Okay. Let's do it your way. And I guess you'll, you'll completely win. um But wow.
01:12:14
Speaker
I bet. I hope you feel special. Like, On the question of do they have more fun, like I've got one player who plays in a couple of different games and have through character craft come up with PCs that ah like avoid 90% of the damage they would otherwise take. Yeah. Roll obscenely high, have backup hits and and, you know, like makes flurry of blows look like a brush against the shoulder and things. Yeah. And like, they're constantly explaining why the thing didn't hit them or the trap didn't work, et cetera, because of like things they've come up with on their sheet or you, or, or gotten like, are you having fun?
01:13:01
Speaker
Like, cause it doesn't sound like, like they explained the thing. I'm like, Okay, and move on. um Number one, they seem to be having the most fun when I challenge them anyway, where the thing they are counting on does not work, or the thing they left behind to come back to is not there anymore.
01:13:20
Speaker
um Like, that's when they get more engaged, when they are legit challenged again. Like, when I'm when i'm running the Sladium, they start out at level 10. so that they've got some juice, they they can do some things, they can do some fun things, their characters are built, you know, so that number one, it's not gonna be an instant slaughter fest. um I enjoy a faster purple worm kill kill, but like, I don't want it to be a foregone conclusion that everyone will die.
01:13:48
Speaker
You know, so like level 10 is a nice round number where like, yeah, they've got a good chance. They've got great HP. They've got some wonderful spells and skills and feats and things up their sleeves. Awesome. They are still going to get their teeth kicked in if they are not careful and specific and deliberate with their choices. And that's what they show up for.
01:14:08
Speaker
um yeah But like, do they have more fun? I don't think you do. I don't think you do have more fun ah if you've got like the character build that anticipates all the things. um And like, they have more fun when I have anticipated those little outs that they have built and then have something that works around that anyway.
01:14:31
Speaker
Like when they are legit actually challenged and like, oh, I felt that one. Okay, yeah, I do have to make some specific choices in here instead of just walking through like ah ah one of those cat tractors that can just plow over anything yeah without getting too much damage.
01:14:47
Speaker
um But yeah, like with the prep of, okay, I see your character sheets. I see what your feats and skills and spells are. What can we do? Uh, well, if you have, uh, resistance to acid damage, enjoy this cold spell, you know, as an example.
01:15:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good discussion. I'm, I'm only curious cause I, I don't really run high level that certainly not that high level. Um, and I've got to get, it's a table of eight, the eight 18th level. And I'm like, and we have three hours. drinks Bring a big cup to hydrate. That's the thing. Well, that's what I'm saying is like, we only have three hours. And so it's just like, to me, at some point, it just is a game of number go uppy, which just means, okay, we're going to be sitting at the table for a little longer doing combat like that. That to me isn't.
01:15:37
Speaker
more fun. So um i'm doing I'm doing what I can to like put some little hooks in there to make it fun. but But my instinct is like, if this is just for a gimmick, I don't know i don't know if it's the right gimmick. and And by the way, I don't have a say on this. It's it's not a design for me. like They're telling me you have eight 18th level players. And I'm like, okay.
01:15:58
Speaker
And I will... see That right there, that's why I and incorporated a home a home rule, a house rule of on any given attack, you can add a spell to embellish the whammy, or you can use a feat to embellish the whammy, but you cannot use both on the same attack.
01:16:17
Speaker
Because otherwise it is just going to be numbers go up e and you're just stacking all these things on top of each other. And the thing is, by level 10, they have multiple attacks per round anyway. So they do get the enjoyment of like, I'm going to use a spell on this one and a useful feat on the other one. And they still have to choose rather than grocery list of damage. I'm doing this round, which just bores me to tears.
01:16:41
Speaker
Cool, cool, cool. That's interesting. All right. Yeah, I got to play higher level characters, but I will soon enough. You're welcome to build a level 10 and see how you do ah in the stadium. I'd love to see what you do with a with a violence based character. Oh, my God.
01:17:03
Speaker
Yeah, that would be awesome. Amazing. um So you made a point ah ah on the form you filled out for us of wanting to give encouragement to our audience to go after their dreams. And I wanted to make sure you you did. of me good it's it's It's delightful. um Like this is your opportunity to fire away if there is any unspoken nuggets of encouragement.
01:17:31
Speaker
Um, I mean, I, I don't know that there's a DM out there who, who wouldn't agree that like, it's easier than you think it's, it's like the things that you think will be hard, will not be hard.
01:17:42
Speaker
There are going to be some things that are harder than you think, but it's not what you can prep for. It's more, it's more mental things and like, uh, people management, I suppose it's like, you just have to get your, year but, but, um, you know, when people sign up for the DM school, they're like, yeah, I can really use a brush up on rules. And I'm like,
01:17:58
Speaker
too bad you're dming right now like you go you know like and this is not rules review this is technique yes yes and and and the rules i do i play that yeah i'll play it i know them i know them like the back of my hand but like is that what makes it fun it just isn't so so and you'll learn along the way like there's no there's nothing stopping sometimes it's even fun to go in and be like what is that again oh that's you know it's fun it's fun to learn that together so So everyone comes in thinking they need help in one thing. And it's like, no, you just need you just need to... The only thing you're missing is confidence and belief in yourself, actually. And you're the only one who can give yourself that. But start way before you're ready. Start way before you're ready. and
01:18:44
Speaker
This is how you get to ready. Yeah, don't prepare to get ready to begin. Don't do that. um Just do it. And we've already said so much about it. And you did such a great job too of of giving people yeah permission. it It really is. um I really think DMing is such a gift and the world needs more leaders and DMing is such a natural way to be that leader.
01:19:06
Speaker
in the world. And the the one, the only thing else about leadership, it it seems daunting. And the number one, um there, I think that a leader has only two jobs, one, accept that they are the leader, and just be in that role. Just be like, yep, I'm the leader. Got it. I'm the leader.
01:19:23
Speaker
So be the DM, just show up as the DM, you'll be doing 90% of the work. And then two is make decisions. And that's it. So, but a lot of people don't like
Leadership and Decision Making in D&D
01:19:32
Speaker
making decisions. So they want to get a consensus or we or have to wait until we have a quorum or I want to see what everyone thinks about this. And it's like, unfortunately, if you're the leader, you just make decisions.
01:19:42
Speaker
But that's a D&D. That's just, that's a D&D thing for me too, because it's like, yeah, there are three doors behind every single one is adventure. You can't screw it up. So, but that's the same thing for a DM too. Like you you're not going to screw it up.
01:19:56
Speaker
Choose something, make something up, say that this is how it goes. You'll be fine. You'll be fine. You'll be fine. I would, with with your permission, I would embellish on what you've said about choosing to be a leader. And I would go a step further and like make a specific choice about what kind of leader you're going to be.
01:20:18
Speaker
um In my own case, I am a dungeon maestro. It is my job to make sure the entire orchestra gets heard so that the person that's, you know, sucking up 90% of the oxygen in the room is not the only thing that we hear from, you know, so that Argo Blar the timid also gets a chance to be heard, to be checked in with, to make choices that impact things and like just making music with everybody one, one section of the orchestra at a time.
01:20:47
Speaker
I love that. Yeah. there There's what you decide. It's also like way the way, you know, I said delight. You can just choose. It's a decision to be delightful. You just choose it. You just say, I'm doing this now. But that's the same thing for like what you stand for. Like if you stand for fun, if you stand for wonder, it's a switch. You just turn on the switch and go, I'm fun. I'm fun.
01:21:08
Speaker
Not I'm giving you fun. Not I'm making fun. I am fun. And therefore fun will be had. And you just decide. And it's, um, That's harder. That's harder than it can. Because sometimes you're in in a group of new people and they're strangers or it's at a con and you're like, oh, I don't know what they're going to even like. But but it's it's leadership so interesting in that way. I do think that, you know, your audience is a reflection of you, which is why I found so many kindred spirits and folks who want to take my class because it's like, oh, I see. Yeah, I i see that imposter syndrome in you. I know her well, you know, um so
01:21:45
Speaker
Yes, a thousand percent agree what kind of what kind of leader you
Creating a Safe Space for Creativity
01:21:50
Speaker
get to be. It's amazing. um I find that one of the ways to help those like stiff and unsure of themselves because they don't know each other, they've never played before kind of things. I find that either by deliberately or just through
01:22:08
Speaker
example, building a safe space where none of their choices are going to get laughed at. No one's going to be ridiculing them for like taking too long or anything like that. But like they feel that like no matter what they choose,
01:22:23
Speaker
is gonna lead to something interesting and fun. That helps grease the wheels of the creativity of like, yeah, okay, I can say the stupid thing.
01:22:34
Speaker
um And like, basically, I think at some point I say like, don't worry about sounding ridiculous. We're all going to sound ridiculous. So take away that pressure. That's great. Yeah, another way in is to ask yes or no questions at the beginning. So like, i think I think in this, you know, describe the world. This is where we are. I think some of you are from this town and some of you are not. ah Raise your hand if you think you're from here.
01:22:57
Speaker
Oh, great. We have some. And some people are coming in and those are you guys. Okay, cool. Do you want And then and then you can expand on that. Like in this town, you guys are from here. So so is there a role that you think you play in this society? But it's like it's like giving them chocolate or vanilla instead of going...
01:23:12
Speaker
So how do y'all all be here right now? You know, it's like, no, this is what I've imagined. Oh, and you think I was a paladin. You think you can. I was also thinking that, you know, and and just going, yeah like helping them, helping them along the improv, almost like Mad Libs style. Like this is, this is how we're going to get you in has been really.
01:23:31
Speaker
ah I don't know. It's how I hesitate to say i I am in such a bubble. Like the people I play with are mostly performers and improvisers and very story coded, you know, people. So it has. And I'm also i think it helps that I'm a woman like there's not or maybe I don't know, maybe other people have had different but
Dealing with Player Dynamics
01:23:54
Speaker
I've had different. so many story forward people that, that it's, it's hard for me to answer some questions when they're like, can you get, can I get advice on how to handle this sort of person? And I'm like, Oh, the sort of person I've literally never interacted with. Um, yeah I don't know. Because they behave differently around you. yeah yeah that makes laugh yeah Yeah. I don't know that they, they sound, that sounds hard. Um, maybe, maybe,
01:24:19
Speaker
maybe kick them out. Like, I need no likey. Like, oh oh, actually, we're going to take a picture. Can you step to the right? And even can you go further? A little further a little more you lot more? Yeah, yeah, exactly. like i Get them out. That sounds hard. man.
01:24:41
Speaker
oh man Um, it's been a delight. My cheeks hurt from smiling. I know. Same, same. Uh, Amy, how can our listeners get in touch with you and where can they support what you do?
01:24:56
Speaker
Oh, amazing. I am, you can mostly find me on my Instagram at Vorpal sword. And that is my real last name. It's V O R P A H L plenty of other Vorpals in, uh, in America actually.
01:25:10
Speaker
not playing D&D. And so that's Vorpal's sword. and ah The And my Discord's hopping. You can find that at my Instagram too. And then if you, there's, the Kickstarter's over. It's like wildly successful. I'm so proud of it. And um if you want to late pledge on any level, we still have a lot of late pledges available. Oh, cool. And you can get merch or you can get a ticket or you can get You just donate for reason reasons that you, I don't know, hold
Closing Remarks and Audience Interaction
01:25:40
Speaker
dear to yourself. But that's if you just Google, she's got NPC energy, um which Casey, when I named the show, she's got non-player character energy because I wanted it to be like, I want to be very clear what this is about. And more people in my life know what an NPC is.
01:25:58
Speaker
I don't even say in my life, people who don't play D&D, people who don't know video games, more people know what NPC is than they know what non-player character is. I think it's a term that the internet made pop. Isn't that crazy? I thought I was doing a service, but people are like, I've literally been like, she's got non-player character energy. They're like, okay, okay. And I'm like, you know, like NPCs, they're like, oh, an And I'm like, you knew NPC, but you didn't know what it stood for?
01:26:25
Speaker
ok But that's a real thing. That's a real thing. That is that is a paradox. It surprised me. And I only learned it in the last month. So it makes sense, though.
01:26:37
Speaker
It does make sense a little bit. Like there's there's a click in my brain of like, yeah, that's how people think now. OK, sure. Yeah, I think I think it became pop a tick tock. I don't know, whatever. But, you know, that's that's out there. So I learned that and now you know it too. Hey,
01:26:56
Speaker
um Amy, thank you so, so, so, so much for joining us today. This has been blasts. I'm so glad to hear that. That's that's that's what we're for what we're here Yeah.
01:27:08
Speaker
And finally, to our audience, another great big thank you for sharing your precious time with us. If you feel it's been well spent, please share the joy of GMing with your friends who are looking to enjoy themselves.
01:27:22
Speaker
You can email your questions for me and our future guests to narrativefeatspodcast at gmail.com. And if you'd like me to run a game for you or take my workshop on character voices, reach out on startplaying.games.
01:27:37
Speaker
Leave a review, rate the show, and follow us on Blue Sky on TikTok and YouTube at Narrative Feats or Sladium Games, wherever you get your podcasts. You can learn more about our work at sladiumgames.com.
01:27:51
Speaker
Don't forget to join our Discord. Links to everything in the doobly-doo. From all of us, I am Casey Jones. There are exciting things to come, my friends.
01:28:03
Speaker
I am delighted you're along for the ride. Thanks so much and have a great day.