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"When the storm is racing" ACN Pod 163
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Jon, Clare & Tom are joined by Glen Riddersholm, former Norwich City assistant coach, who was a senior figure at Carrow Road less than a year ago. We talk about projects, promises and trust, Josh Sargent, the best place to live in the UK (world), Neil Adams, Ben Knapper, and plenty of the philosophy and psychology beliefs Glen's developed over his decades long coaching career.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Norwich podcast, glancing at the globe during this international gap, gathering our thoughts as the glorious PC world goes quiet. With no Carrow Road game to glean over, we got ourselves thinking how we could get chatting with a man who once helped guide the yellow and green. We're taking a gander at a great former assistant who brought gleam and glint to the dugout. It is, of course, Glenn Ridders home.
00:00:41
Speaker
Glenn, thank you so much for joining us. For those of us that haven't done the in-depth background reading that we've obviously all done and and think of you, obviously, I only discovered you as Johanna's assistant. Could you maybe give us ah a bit of a background of of yourself and your career before Norwich?
00:00:56
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And thanks for being on this podcast. I hope you're all well. And I'm really happy that Norwich City is doing pretty well now since Clรฉment came in. So i'm I'm really happy about that.
00:01:08
Speaker
Yeah. um o How long time do we have? I'm actually ah in my 40th year as a coach. and I started very early on ah year 13.
00:01:19
Speaker
At that time in Denmark, there were no full-time coaches. So I really come from hard work, discipline and and and and a clear goal from age 15. I wanted to to like work one day being a full-time coach. So it took me 20 years with full focus on that. and at coaching youngsters, youth development. And in 2004, I went full-time in my in the club I
Building Successful Teams
00:01:50
Speaker
spent most years. And I was also a part of building FC Midtjylland that you know pretty well now, also from EuroLeague. I started in 1999 when the club was founded um and in 4 I was like a kind of like individual coach there.
00:02:06
Speaker
And then in the summer of 4 we started the first academy ever in Denmark. I was the first full-time coach. And we managed yeah to to bring really, really top-skilled players ah through the system like Simon Kier, Winston Reid, playing for West Ham for many years, and a lot of other players. So I was there ah until 6, and then the Federation wanted to call me in. They wanted, like... making like a new um style of play, a new development in in Danish football, like we have seen in Germany, in Belgium, a little bit. We wanted to also like create a new foundation for Danish football.
00:02:47
Speaker
And they took me in. um I spent two years there. um and I came back as assistant in Midtjylland, and in 2011, I took over as a head coach, and in in pretty tough times, after one year where we won the bronze in the first season,
00:03:03
Speaker
i am we we cut down 60% of our financial um a situation, so that was pretty tough. So we ended up with a group of players average age 20.6%,
00:03:18
Speaker
and then from there we just really built a sustainable team with the behavior profiles with a lot of innovative thinking and then matthew benham that you all know from brentham brentford he took over the club in 14 and there we we had we had like the quality and the talent to win the trophies but And over two years, calendar years in 13 and 14, we were the best in average per point. But it was difficult for us to to put it together. So we won the trophy because we we didn't have this squad with enough of good players. And we could do that with Benham's um introduction to Midtjylland. And then we won the trophy in 14-15.
00:04:01
Speaker
And that was a big moment for me also coming there from the youth and and being a part of that history of the club. And then from there, I went on to AGF, a big historical club in Denmark, trying to build something there. was there almost two years.
00:04:14
Speaker
I went from there to um yeah a little bit. I had three months as a spawn director ah because I helped actually Joachim Andersen's dad. Joachim was playing for Fulham as a center back. I know he's dad because I also had Joachim in the Midtjylland Academy. And he needed Jens Bertel Eskow, who is now in Motherwell in Scotland.
00:04:35
Speaker
He was actually the head coach there. And they wanted me as a little bit more experienced guy to to come in there and and support the the coaching team. That was him, Jens Bertel Eskow, who also played in Norwich. I know him really well. And um Mike Thulberg, who is now the head coach of Midtjylland.
Joining Norwich: Mission and Vision
00:04:53
Speaker
Actually, I took him to Aarhus. So and yeah, pretty pretty amazing. And then I was there three months, came to Sundaryuske, a smaller club in Denmark, where I really wanted to build like a new project, wanted to be like a top club.
00:05:07
Speaker
Unfortunately, the money they they couldn't yeah the money was not big enough, the financial muscle was too little, but we managed to to do really good. Hachi Wright, I took him from Holland, who is now top leading top scorer, I think, in Coventry.
00:05:21
Speaker
Hachi and I found them Alexander Ba, who is now playing for Benfica. And we also had Emil Holm, who's now in Juventus. So we we were really good picking up these talents and and sell them for the biggest the amount ever and in the history of the club. And we actually won the cup in 20 and lost the cup final in 21. The first trophy like in Midtjylland of the club's history.
00:05:42
Speaker
And then from there, I moved on to a to Belgium, Genk. um I wonder, like, at that time, I have two kids. um and My son, who is now full-time coach, he became student. So my wife and I could really, like, explore and and travel outside Denmark. And we went to Genk, to Nordrลกjรถping, Norwich.
00:06:04
Speaker
And now I'm here. And that was as short as I can do it. 40 years being a coach. I say, given you've had such a variety of different um roles in football, what what role do you enjoy the most? And do you have, like, you've been a manager and an assistant. So do you find that transition a fairly easy one?
00:06:22
Speaker
Yeah, I find it pretty easy because i' I try to say that I'm a football man. I'm from From my younger ages, I've always been like very open-minded. My family and I have had like five different players that I've actually coached as seniors in our house as ah football sons. we I have a pedagogical background.
00:06:44
Speaker
I'm...
00:06:48
Speaker
i'm have an always respect I'm good to connect with people, um no matter where they're from. And I've always always put a lot of interest in the human being behind the football player, not only the football player. So if ah if a bad day on on the in the office as a player, my first question as a coach is always, a is everything in his life good? um Is he having trouble at home often if the player is really shitty or bad?
00:07:17
Speaker
It's not about him training well or doing well. It's often something in his personal life, just and as you guys and everybody else listen to this podcast. We have ah good days and and bad days, but football players are just football players. They get money to perform, but yeah, there's also a person behind every football player. So in that term, i have tried everything in football. And for me, it's it's about the project. It's about, can I can i make a difference here? Can I do something with what I believe in? And and speaking about coming from Midtjylland and spending 16 years there, I believe so much in projects. projects I believe so much in on the long-term thinking.
00:07:57
Speaker
And they unfortunately, nowadays, it's really difficult to find these kind of projects because what you see, my my good friend Thomas Frank, now he got sacked there in Tottenham after, i don't know, five and a half months, six months, 38 games. I don't like that development in the business. I think I also said that when I was introduced to Norwich in the summer 2014.
00:08:19
Speaker
Something I'm really interested in, Glenn, when you talk about projects, is is how the the move to Norwich materialised. So you know how did that come about? And actually, from what we understand, it was very much the the club that approached you rather than Johannes maybe having those conversations with you before you came. Just just tell us a little bit about what happened there.
00:08:42
Speaker
Yeah, um after leaving Sweden, um I had a couple of months back home, um January, February 24. i had some negotiations with some clubs going out as a head coach again.
00:08:57
Speaker
I got a call from our agent. and At that time, I actually didn't know the agent had also Johannes. But he talked about this project in Norway and I said, yeah, yeah, it's good. But listen, I want to go there as a head coach. So For me, I'm not interested really. But then he said, but Glenn, I know you. and And the story about him as an agent and is he was actually the spawn director ah hiring me in Midtjylland 11. So he really knew me well and know me well. So I was thinking, yeah, but what can I do there? um yeah, but Glenn, they really want to like start this project that you like and they want to go long term and they want to develop young,
Youth Development and Culture at Norwich
00:09:39
Speaker
skillful players. They want to have an attractive style of play. There's a really good club, et cetera, et cetera.
00:09:45
Speaker
And I knew Norwich from ah yeah following English football, but but I've never been there. So I said, yeah, but I'm actually in negotiations. So let's see what happens. And then um I got in in contact with Johannes and we had some meetings when he was still at Nordschelan. talking a little bit about um how he could see me. I said, listen,
00:10:06
Speaker
i I want to go there and and talk to the people in the club of Norwich before I make my final decision. I think it sounds interesting. What kind of role do you see me in? ah Because it needs it needs to make sense for me. um And because I came from my my my job in Sweden, I was not happy. Sweden was a big mistake and that I took at that time. I was so far away from how I look at things and not so professional as I hoped.
00:10:32
Speaker
So, um yeah, and then, you know, i spoke a little bit to Ben and we came over i um and I had this amazing feeling. So i actually turned down offers as head coach, one in Australia and one in Europe. So and to to go to Norwich, because they're my, if you can say that, my romantic side of my personality in football, right?
00:10:57
Speaker
it really took over because it was like my, you call it my last shot and in to say, okay, is this really still and possible in in the world of football to be in a project where you really think long term? And after meeting the guys at Colham, I was not in doubt. I called my wife, said, hey, I'll do that because these people, I really think we can make something big there over time. So it it was actually an easy decision to make for me.
00:11:29
Speaker
It's interesting that you mentioned about getting having conversations with Ben Napa and the guys within in the club, because what what we've heard about the most recent appointment was the honesty that came across at the mistakes that had been made previously. So um we've, you Ben Napa's had the typical rollercoaster ride of and these signings aren't very good. You're terrible. This manager has done well. You're great. This manager has done badly. You're bad. This manager is doing well again. You're great again. And, and you know, if you if you're the person who's responsible for those appointments, you're going to you're going to get the good and the bad.
00:12:02
Speaker
He's done very well out of comments that have come recently, as I say, from Clement saying the stark honesty of these are the things that went wrong. and And he said that that wasn't common in the game. So would would you say that that would you would you agree with that, that you so many managers, particularly someone with such a storied coaching experience, you know it's not like you just hung up your boots and this is your first first turnaround.
00:12:25
Speaker
Surely they there's a lot of clubs that will tell you Yes, we want to give people 10 year contracts. Yes, we want to build around your philosophy. that That's got to be quite common. So how do you how how did you approach that conversation, Ben? And what was it that you heard that made you think that actually Norwich genuinely did want to to do a long term kind of create a long term environment for for you and Johannes to thrive in?
00:12:48
Speaker
um Yeah, you you you really came on and in the way that I have heard so many sport directors and clubs telling fairy tales about how what they want and how they want to approach and etc. And so it all sounds so good. and But I live from the sentence. ah I don't want it to to be good on paper and shit on grass. I want it to work.
00:13:11
Speaker
um And I'm a guy who walks the talk. So if you ask me to do this, I will follow it 100% completely. i'm I'm a team player. And it just came across to me that them it was so genuine, good people. um and Neil, Ben, the guys that I met the first time, first like like this and over teams. And then when I was physically meeting them in them in Norwich and and my feeling being at the training ground and and talking a little bit to the to the people there, it just
00:13:49
Speaker
yeah It was just very easy because it came across that they they wanted to go long term. They wanted to buy 100% into what Johannes have done in North Zealand. And I was pretty sure that I could support him with my my leadership experience, with my way of... Also, leaving a project like in Midtjylland, where ah Johannes also left a really good sustainable club in Nordjylland, where you know every time when you go in there, you just know every people in the club just know what the main idea what the strategy is. So you don't need to waste a lot of time discussing, talking, because this is where we are going. And I came from that. And I remember when I stepped my first step out of Midtjylland, it was a shock for me to enter the like real world, because...
00:14:39
Speaker
I couldn't take anything for like granted, like I could in the past. And that there I could really like support Johannes besides of many other things as well. But yeah, it came across, uh, that, that it was good. And, and, and when I hear Ben also talk about his reflections and honesty and stuff like that, with my experience, I gave them some feedback, uh, when I was called in and, um, they said with that, we, we should stop, um, um,
00:15:07
Speaker
our working together um because yeah I'm experienced. but But I also, from my perspective, just to lift it a little bit up, Ben is coming in, coming from Arsenal and, you know, me, my myself as a person, You need to make mistakes and you need to understand. And and the strongest quality that Ben has shown here is um that he has reflected.
00:15:34
Speaker
and and and And he has also looked back a little bit. And one of the things that is normal in business that I'm, of course, I'm sad about it. I also said that I'm still actually in connection with the guys. I i speak to Ben and and to Neil and all these guys. so um But m i so You know, when the storm came, if it's the first job as a spawn director, and there is a storm, and there was a storm there where with the results, but actually all the underlying parameters was actually going really, really good. We performed to be in the top six, and there was a lot of, some will call it excuses or natural reasons, but we were there, we could also see of all the data that we spent, and we had meetings about every third month,
00:16:21
Speaker
the big that that this was actually going pretty well. Also, we had a lot of injuries with very important players as well. so But then when the storm came, that that is also where where Ben needed to learn maybe something that it's it's not just to to, in this case, now it's back in time, but sack people, but really...
00:16:41
Speaker
That's also why maybe I said to them, i have lost faith in these projects and for now, because every time there is a storm, the the easiest thing is just to sack the coaches. And I don't believe in that. And therefore I was like, I was, yeah, I was really sad um and that day in April.
00:16:58
Speaker
Well, you mentioned Neil there. I should be really interested to and to hear a bit about about him because we we've, as fans going back, we we remember him as a player and then he had his time in the media and and was a real...
00:17:13
Speaker
a real ah a figure of love when he when he was covering the the club because his love for the club came across when he was covering it. And but then obviously went into into a few different types of roles in the club. Can you talk about a little bit about the influence that maybe at Colney and around the club, someone like Neil, bearing in mind, he's now announced that he's, you know, he's going to be moving on at the end of the season.
00:17:35
Speaker
A couple of words, because one of the things I don't think Ben and the other, and we hear that he's been great, but we haven't heard much about what he has he has done, you know what he actually has contributed. So if you could share some light on that, especially if you're still in contact with him, that would be really interesting to hear. Yeah, I need to admit that I still follow Norwich a lot. So I've also followed a little bit of all the discussions, especially in that really, really tough period before Christmas.
00:18:01
Speaker
And there was a lot of emotions going on there. And and to be to fair to Neil, I think it's not fair. For me, he is what you need in a football club. He is walking culture, if you ask me. And if you really think that he just took his car from his and from his family and went to the job and then went back home again and didn't do anything, then you're totally off. I just need to say that. He has tried so many things in in the club. He has had so many different roles.
00:18:32
Speaker
So he actually... he gives like, a for me, he was important. and But also, he he just knew everything about what is was going on in the club. But I didn't see a guy who was like, not motivated, not committed, not having the passion anymore. He he was full of compassion. passion he He came in and to our office so many times during the day. he yeah, but I can only speak positively. I also wrote ah wrote wrote some nice words to him. um
00:19:07
Speaker
for his farewell. So for me, he's walking culture, and being there and people supporting Norwich should be so grateful. Coming from a playing career that was really good, I've heard, and you have told me it was good. I don't know how much you can trust that, but but I know because actually I saw a guy coming in, a fan and that wanted actually Neil Adams on his back of his new shirt for the previous season. So yeah, then you're big, huh?
00:19:35
Speaker
ah but But yeah, but he he connected all the dots like Ben and and Neil tried to explain before we arrived. He he had a lot of connection with the academy.
00:19:48
Speaker
He was like this link that just building the bridges between everything. And they for me, it was so great to have him there. And I think it's it's often like that, that it's when you see people leaving that you find out how much they actually left behind them that you will miss them.
00:20:07
Speaker
and And in my opinion, Neil is one of those characters that... ah you need in a football club because you know coaches come and leave and and there is so much but you need these cultural figures that is just there and and he will always be there standing tall and and being a Norwich City football not only fan but also yeah walking culture I guess he offered the continuity for all the other changes he sort of was the one that was still there I guess I totally agree on that point
00:20:39
Speaker
Do you think that's part of the part of the challenge of, you mentioned when a storm comes along, and if we have we're used to getting almost daily updates from our football club, from the Pinkham lads, and nuds and and you know we're we're very fortunate.
Handling Media and Community Relations
00:20:54
Speaker
And I don't know how much when you were coaching in Norwich, obviously you say you follow from afar,
00:21:00
Speaker
we see other local media when we're, when, when we're away games or or what have you. And when we're, when the only way we can get commentary, for example, is from, from the opposition's point of view, ah we we think we're very well served in terms of the the people that cover our club. So we're used to getting a lot of of information. We used to get a lot of stories.
00:21:19
Speaker
And I feel like, or I'd be interested. do Do you agree that, football clubs have to do a better job than they ever used to of explaining this is what Ben is contributing. This is what Neil is contributing. Because in the absence of explaining that glue guy, in the absence of explaining the contribution, if there's a storm that comes along, the fans are looking to point the finger. And if they see someone who's in a position and they can't point to when they were told they contributed something, they end up kind of maybe getting some of the fire that they that they don't deserve.
00:21:49
Speaker
do you agree with that or or not? some Yeah, I agree. I agree. But but you know, a PINGON follows really closely Norwich City Football Club and every movement in in every aspect.
00:22:01
Speaker
ah You have a lot of the podcasts. You have ah and what is the name of the guy who's always many making the tactical analysis on the X. Oh, NCFC analysis. and all numbers is no and So there is so much attention following the team. and And from my opinion, it's good But football is also emotional. And, you know, and the social media and and the fans, the media can put so much pressure on today's leaderships that is I can, from a personal and human side, understand why it's so tough and difficult to to face that and stand up in in in in situations like that.
00:22:44
Speaker
and And you just see that not only in Norwich, but everywhere that football clubs can't resist or stand against that pressure coming from the outside. so So I understand how it works, but I would hope it was different because you you know if you want a strong club, you also need the strong board, sport director, the strong leadership. in every aspect, if you believe you have the right persons, of course. um
00:23:15
Speaker
But, yeah, and also just to underline, i really... i Sometimes you can hear coaches ah feeling it difficult to to talk about the the past and and the clubs, but to be honest, I also said that the the last day i was at the club, you know, i didn't regret coming there and And 98% of everything was so positive. Even not getting sacked, that was one of the 2%, maybe. but i would say if they but But, you know, I can see it because of, yeah, I'm...
00:23:52
Speaker
I have been around in the football for so many years, so I could see also and read between the lines. And therefore, it was very easy for me to go out there the day after and and and take a good farewell with the staff and the players, because I understand how it works. And and Ben, for me, is is a huge talent being a sport director. he's He's smart, he's intelligent. And of course, he has learned his lesson and he has learned it. So in the past, he will only improve and getting better.
00:24:19
Speaker
So I can really not speak bad about these persons because they are, they're they're good people. And they yeah. Yeah. ah You've just said yeah how positive the experience it was. Outside of the job itself, from what was out on social media, it looked like you really enjoyed living in Norwich and embraced life there. um ah don't know if you saw recently that Norwich was actually voted the 2026 best to live in the UK. Yeah, we're very proud of that. Congratulations. Obviously, I'm sure you agree with that. and
00:24:50
Speaker
And you you famously declared your love of thorns DIY shop, which went down a storm with all the locals. Exactly. Exactly. Did you have any knowledge of Norwich before you came? like Do you have any expectations? And also, what were your favorite parts of of the city and the county of Norfolk?
00:25:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah. e An important part ah going out is also that your family in this situation, my wife, she also loved to being there. So, of course, that also have a positive effect on me. And and and we to be honest, we're really missing Norwich in so many ways. and I didn't know much about the city before we arrived. i come from Esbjerg in Denmark. So I knew because the sea, the North Sea is close to Esbjerg. So I knew that there was Norwich and and it was close to the sea. and One of my my first experience was live in England. It was going on the Old Highbury and watching actually a game against Norwich. and and nor Arsenal won 4-3 and that was back in that was back in let me see in 80s in like 89 or something so I remember that the game and the Canaries and the Yellow Jersey and all that And then, you know, following from distance, you know a little bit about the club. And I knew, of course, Jens Berthel has played there. And also Henrik Mortensen and other Danish players, Helve.
00:26:15
Speaker
But besides that, not so much. ah But now reflecting, yeah, what did I like? Everything almost about Norwich. I don't know if you know, but I walked from, um I lived in Princes Street.
00:26:28
Speaker
um And at... I never took my car to a game. um so I walked through the city, forth and back. When I had meetings at at the stadium, I always walked. And actually I had the ambition to to bicycle to the training ground, but you know, the roads in Norwich, they're so narrow. And i will say i I didn't have the courage to go by bike there, to be honest.
00:26:53
Speaker
But otherwise we just enjoyed, you know,
00:26:58
Speaker
The church, we lived just across the the cathedral, and the market. and we We thought it was amazing to go there every day and just buy what you needed of groceries and, and you know, not wasting anything because you could just go and buy buy and one or two of everything and the cafes and just ah the the atmosphere in the city and the people around and Yeah, we just, we really loved it. And yeah, we we we saw a lot of Norfolk as well um in the in the short time I had of of spare time. But the yeah, we will definitely go back one day.
00:27:36
Speaker
You'd be very welcome, I'm sure. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's so it's always nice when you get the impression that those that are in charge of your beloved football club also love your beloved area. And and when that comes across well, that's ah that's such a positive thing. Quick fact check. It was 4th of November 1989, the Arsenal versus Norwich four three Do you remember that it ended in 21-man brawl though, Glenn? I remember that fight. It was a great fight. yeah It was.
00:28:02
Speaker
Actually, I didn't remember. But I remember one special thing. At that time, and i don't know why, but at at the at the instant of Highbury, there was like these pictures on a like a wall.
00:28:17
Speaker
There was no fans.
Implementing Long-term Football Philosophy
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah, they were redeveloping the ground. Yeah, maybe, yeah yeah and yeah. But it was a a big experience. and And I have been, since I was like, let's say, since five years old,
00:28:33
Speaker
And up through the middle 80s, it was not just like a feeling. It was something that sustained me. I have been a Liverpool fan. and So, yeah, always. So... um um but but but Norwich, um I'm also Norwich's friend today, for sure. Good. Well, we had there was some some great football that was played during your tenure. so so So going back to what happened on the pitch, it really did, you know, obviously started well despite a few hiccups with the you know, Mr. Johnny Rowe and and and things like that.
00:29:07
Speaker
But that there was ah there was a style of football that that the crowd seemed to be buying into. And and there was some initial patience. And and we if you know we did give, you know, as as a fan base, we we'd bought into the project and we were told, OK, we understood why the appointments had been made, why yourself and Johannes and the Blackhound was explained to us well.
00:29:27
Speaker
Um, what, how were those first few months for you kind of trying to, you know, when when you were still in project mode, trying to imprint that style of play throughout the, the whole squad?
00:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, ah first of all, ah the the weather was amazing there. and And I called my wife and said, I think I will sleep at the training ground because the pitches there were so great. Just smelling to the pitches was amazing. yeah ah But no, it it was tough in the beginning because all the players were not there, actually. So it was a lot of the young players and we we we we started out with.
00:30:03
Speaker
And then there was like Borja and there was... Johnny Rowe and a couple of other players but then we were missing all the guys from international and so the first 14 actually it was when we went to the camp in in Belgium that and there we still missed a couple of players but the first time that we could really work but we just tried to build in the culture on and and outside the pitch day by day and then hope that when they return back to the locker room the other guys there would tell about the what we have been doing and and we were really structured and clear and and because we we were there for the long term. So we we built like, it was never any kind of short term thinking.
00:30:48
Speaker
Even in the bad periods of results, we we never like turned back and was afraid of our jobs or wanted to do something else just to protect ourselves because then we would never bring in all the young players that we continue bringing in during February, March. you know we we just ah Coaches under pressure of feeling afraid of their jobs would never pick these players there and and try to stay loyal to the to the project and the process. So from there, we we just knew,
00:31:19
Speaker
There was such a dramatically shift in in how we wanted to approach the game that we needed to to to really not from between the games in the beginning, before we played three games in a week, we just needed to be so much on the training ground and have a lot of video meetings every morning and maybe sometimes in the afternoon. And we also have IDP groups, as we call it, where we had like seven, eight players every coach.
00:31:45
Speaker
giving feedback. I had the lines of defence, midfield. We had meetings all the time because we we wanted the players to understand. We wanted the ball more on the ball city.
00:31:56
Speaker
and We wanted to be dominant in and out of possession. We we wanted all that. and and And we worked, you know, step by step and always in like themes, never short term, like, oh, now we need to improve that. no, no, no, there we will we will get there someday because that was actually the mandate we had and that was what we what we agreed on.
00:32:19
Speaker
So, um yeah, um it was it was really interesting. And of course, you know, as a coach, when when the results are not there, then there will be doubts. And and then it's about staying strong and and and continue doing what and speak and confident Yeah, close connected to the players. And um i think we we tried our best to continue with the on the pathway that that we worked on. and And, you know, looking back, if you look at the the numbers of that season, you could see we we went being second in the position, second in attacking.
00:33:02
Speaker
So we had a lot of this attacking mindset and we knew our defensive situation was not the best. We knew our goalkeepers maybe didn't save what they needed to save. And then we had all these injuries that really didn't help the team with the with Nacho, who we don't speak about today, I know, um and playing for Ipswich with Kenny. Never heard of him.
00:33:25
Speaker
Sargent that we also don't speak about, but never very important players at that time that we needed because we need to remember a lot of pretty experienced players left and and in came. Yeah, young players like Kellen Fischer. We took in Lucien, Mahoubo from the second team, all these players. And, you know, they are young.
00:33:45
Speaker
They need to play a lot of games to gain experience. And then we are back to... see the person behind the players because all that pressure, of course it has an impact on, on these players.
00:33:57
Speaker
And there I tried to, from my point of view, be the filter that took away the pressure and, and stayed focused on, on the longterm thinking and, and helping supporting on the short term for every single player. But it was, it was, there was a lot of, um, things going on. And that is what I, when I look now at, um,
00:34:18
Speaker
Clemant's regime, you can see Kellen now have played last season and how much it's helped him. You can see these players now really fitting in. Now they have more experience. So it's easier to adapt. And and Paul, I know him also from Belgium. He's an amazing manager. So in in that terms, ah but yeah, that was how we worked. And I would say no regrets at all in in in the way that we approached the things, because that was what we promised and what we said before we came in. And I remember I made a podcast in in our podcast camp in Austria where I where i sit like like created like a myth for where I tried to say this is like ah a big ferry, a ship in a small lake and you want to like turn this ferry or big ship in a lake and that just takes time in football.
00:35:05
Speaker
And you know, and we thought it should take ah year three we should promote to Premier League. And that was all our focus doing that.
00:35:16
Speaker
And ah yeah, um that's how it is. you You talk a lot about the um the younger players, Glenn. I'm i'm interested in in some of the actually the ah older professionals that you worked with, the senior pros. Because for me, looking at... ah you know, your body of work, it looked like um yourself and Johannes really technically improved players. So there was a real emphasis on, you know, being good with the ball and and someone like, you know, I mean, Kenny McLean, I think really benefited from from your guys' coaching, but actually someone like Shane Duffy, who wasn't necessarily known for um for being a technical footballer, um you know, but actually...
00:35:58
Speaker
He kind of almost rebuilt his career that season. And that was a career that was hanging by a thread. You know, he'd had difficulties. i had He'd had the drink drive um situation, you know, kind of on the eve of ah the the playoff semifinal, the the season previous.
00:36:12
Speaker
think a lot of clubs and a lot of managers and, you know, coaches might have just cast him by the wayside and and just just let him rot. Yeah. But you guys didn't. you know kind of and I'm really interested in how much of that was out of necessity with the injuries and and how much of that was was actually just you know kind of development and working with him on ah on a human level.
00:36:33
Speaker
I would say it was both. um To be fair, when we saw the players, we didn't we didn't think that Dovish should play like this big role that he did when we started the pre-season.
00:36:49
Speaker
and But then because of all these injuries and and and and things, then he ended up being very important for the team in in in in that season. Even though with all the things, you know, he could play every game.
00:37:03
Speaker
And just having that mentality and character, that that really helped. And, you know, i i spoke with him. He was in my group of players as well. and He's a genuine good guy and you know every people in life have some difficulties and they struggle with things and they make mistakes.
00:37:21
Speaker
But the biggest gift you you can have as ah as a human being is to forgive. um and and and and And for me as a coach, the most important thing is to get the bow best out of every character and person. And I think Duffy is grateful when he looked back one day at his Norwich career that that he actually was in a club that that also wanted him and supported him in a really, really respectful and a good way. I could i couldn't mention many examples of players that that wouldn't have had a second or third chance like he had had. And I think he will really appreciate that. And that also speaks a lot about what kind of a club Norwich City Football Club is, but also why they maybe signed us in. and Because it was like, you know, he was not this perfect fit to the new style of play, and to be honest. And he knew that, i we all knew that.
00:38:13
Speaker
But that is also like being in this project, taking steps by steps, that there will still be players along who have a very important role to play. And then, you know, in in the next transfer window and the window after, there will be like, you have also seen now since we left, ah players coming in, building this long-term strategy project. So we knew that, but in that time in between,
00:38:38
Speaker
It's about getting everything out of people. And if you don't connect with people, you cannot get anything out of them. So it's about understanding where they are and respect them for who they are and then work together because that's it the job of a coach. It's not to be judgmental or whatever, um because then there would always be no players left in the business. you You've talked a lot about players and and as a more on a human level and it seemed like you had quite a a strong interest in the psychological side to football and the more mental aspects and from what we saw you seem to integrate the club psychologists a lot more with the team that maybe we've seen with other managers before and since. is Is that something you really believe in?
00:39:21
Speaker
yeah and Yeah, we do. And I think a part of it is because um there is a big, big cultural difference being coached in Denmark or in England. And i knew i knew that before I arrived because I've been watching the and trainings and been visiting the biggest clubs in England, also in my time at the Federation.
00:39:42
Speaker
I had the young players that I coach on the national team, Morton Nielsen, for example, in Chelsea. And when when you when you see how much young players aged 16 earn and you see how much they get and actually to be, don't misjudge or misunderstand what I say, but...
00:40:01
Speaker
the culture that what I can't come from, I i just saw players get, get, get, and I never saw they should deliver, deliver, deliver anything. And then actually I also saw many years before I arrived that, you know, it, you players was just a number.
00:40:19
Speaker
Oh, maybe he will make it. Ah, that would be great. Then it's a return of investment. yeah If not, yeah, that's a part of the game. And for me, In Denmark, you can never do that. you you You make two, three, four, five extra steps. You do everything. If you have a plan, okay, maybe it's a psychologist you bring in, or maybe it's a whatsoever kind of a specialist, because it's not like out, out, out. Yes, he's in. No, no, no. Here, there, you really put a lot of effort in in making everybody
Cultural and Psychological Coaching Strategies
00:40:53
Speaker
succeed.
00:40:54
Speaker
And and that that was also... Now we speak honestly, and I don't know how many is listening to this podcast. One of the things that I think was also cultural difference from what I come from.
00:41:07
Speaker
Now I can see Steve Cooper having difficulties in England. It is like, you know... It is a cultural thing. And I love English football, but I also see this little bit, this lack of 2-3% of hunger, eager understanding of how much it takes because there are so much money.
00:41:26
Speaker
but When I look at at at what the players have in Norwich, it's unbelievable compared to a lot of the places I've been at. and And that's not bad, but the environment, the culture really need to push ah harder and better to to get more out of it.
00:41:41
Speaker
And And m I think if I understand the human being, I have worked, like I said, with behavior profiles ah in my successful teams winning trophies.
00:41:57
Speaker
um For me, if I understand a human being and I understand that every people is different, it also makes me able of helping every player and meet him where he is, not like I want him to be, but how I know and therefore met... and ah Johannes and I, where we come from, that's normal. We tried to introduce him also to a little bit different approach. We wanted him to also sometimes stand in front of the players and speak about this, because why have specialists and experts if they never do anything? yeah And that's our approach. And that was also a kind of a new approach ah compared to the past.
00:42:36
Speaker
and And because we are a little bit unconventional, you say that, but It's not like, yeah, I'm the boss or I'm the assistant manager. We we don't care so much about the status. we We care a lot more about everybody going in the same direction, using all the qualities of every employee or player that we have available and then really go on this pathway together. that That's... that's ah my approach and our approach.
00:43:03
Speaker
Makes a lot of sense. Not not to to dwell too much on the 2%, but ah just to go back to that that kind of surprise, or was it a surprise when when the call came and you effectively were told to come in and it was a case of, right, we're going to stop this project.
00:43:21
Speaker
I mean, how, just talk to us a bit about how much of a, of a shock or a surprise that was, because like you say, the data was all going in the right direction. There were the, the circumstances of the injuries and what have you that you'd come up against and maybe people not saving as many as they should, which we certainly remember from that season.
00:43:39
Speaker
Um, so yeah, yeah well Just describe to us how much you and Johannes were kind of blindsided or or were you? Were you starting to think that ah they're not asking us about transfer window, they're asking us about pre-season, etc.?
00:43:56
Speaker
and No, the you know it was still in April, so all these conversations... about the camp yeah we were definitely speaking and also about that we we also created like a new scouting system for a video of every position inverted the wide player so we we had so many projects going on in that 10 11 months it's unbelievable how much we we did um but that i hope they are still there uh tools they can use uh for the future but
00:44:28
Speaker
No, I've been around. I've been sacked before. So, you know, it's it's a part of the job description um as a coach. But I will say it was not a shock, but I was negative surprised.
00:44:43
Speaker
um And for me, it was like, yeah, um you need to sometimes to be honest and and say, okay, I don't tell myself that I'm perfect and I i don't hope that Johannes is not as well. And of course we could see we were in a really bad situation at that time. And you know, it also gets, when you are in a tough period of time, you need to go through that and learn from it and then come out stronger. And we never, you know, got the time to do that.
00:45:14
Speaker
and And then it's a part of that. But I was disappointed and I said it straight to them in a really good way. I think we had an excellent conversation. that that That for me, it was disappointing because I also said no to a lot before I arrived because I was so committed for these three years.
00:45:33
Speaker
um So in terms of that, a big disappointment. ah But, you know, yeah,
00:45:43
Speaker
yeah that was it. i I was pretty clear and I was not like in ah in a shock. ah Because when you get the call in the early morning or text, can you can you swing by the office today on a day off?
00:45:57
Speaker
Then I grabbed the phone and called Johan and said, you also got a text? Yeah. Okay. maybe Maybe we should get a bag so we can empty the office because I think that's a clear sign.
00:46:08
Speaker
and Yeah. And you know... ah leaving a club, being so many hours together, it feels like you've been there for three, four years because it's so intense.
00:46:19
Speaker
and It was not a happy day, to be honest. um And I would have hoped it was different, but yeah, that's also a part of the business. So ah yeah.
00:46:30
Speaker
In thinking back, 2020 hindsight, is there anything differently that you would have done? No. Okay. Not, you know,
00:46:44
Speaker
I try to be transparent and as honest as I can be. Of course, there is also things I cannot say. and But I think I have been very open-minded here in this conversation so far. and Being in that position that I had, obviously, and then you don't have the final decisions in some matters.
00:47:05
Speaker
And I would lie if I say, but that's also how it works today, even though the regime is doing really well. There will be a different point of views. And we also had different point of views, Johannes and I. That is obviously.
00:47:19
Speaker
But that is like it and that we needed to, because if we were only aligned and we had the same thoughts every time, it will not be dynamically enough to really make steps forward. um And there, of course, we we didn't agree on everything. um and And the only thing you can do there is to um to to give your point of view.
00:47:41
Speaker
And then it's up but to him in this situation to to do what he feels best and what he feels is the right decision. And then it's about us backing him up. um I've also, if you ask me the question, I can i can i can take it up front. I also heard that someone writing about that... the ah Jack Wilshere should never have come in because when he arrived, there was the death or the end of etc. etc.
00:48:08
Speaker
i can I can just say that the the guys there in the office, they they worked very hard and loyal and and did everything they could. and And then I hope and I guess they also had different thoughts.
00:48:21
Speaker
And especially in in in times, ah my experience and my believing is, Stick to the plan, stick to what you have done, and make the right decisions, make the leadership that you need to do against experienced players, younger players, whatsoever.
00:48:37
Speaker
I have my own point of view there. But of course, Jack has
Player Development and Injury Challenges
00:48:42
Speaker
his thoughts. And what, as a player with that career, when things go, there is some noise around Then you you use, ah and maybe we should do this. and Maybe we should go a little bit more defense. Maybe everybody, you know, go more Everybody try to bring to the table what they think.
00:49:02
Speaker
And I think that's strong when you can do that. And then it's up to, in this case, Johannes to make the final decision. But everyone, of course, we we shouldn't agree on everything, even though on the on the basic things, of course, that we were aligned in every aspect of the of the way.
00:49:19
Speaker
You mentioned you... Talking about Johannes for for a moment. Sorry, Tom. Yeah, I was talking about Johannes for a moment. um This is purely rumours that had come out, you know, kind of um post post you guys leaving the club.
00:49:31
Speaker
But there was a suggestion that that p perhaps... Johannes' leadership style, and you talk about like English football and the culture, but his leadership style was quite serious um you know kind of and and maybe not necessarily um suited at that point maybe to to the the group that was there.
00:49:49
Speaker
Is that something that you saw, you know, kind of, or, you know, was there something else? Was there something different that that you think that, you know, kind of happened? Because it felt like there was a bit of a shift with the players towards the end of of your tenure at the club. and And I don't think anyone could really put their finger on on what had happened.
00:50:06
Speaker
No, it's also very difficult. Maybe some of the things is like I just tried to explain that players who have been going through tough periods. Of course, they also have their own kind of solutions and answers to how to get going from there. And automatically, you will try to navigate away from from the high road and and try to like make shortcuts.
00:50:32
Speaker
But what about when you have done those shortcuts? What about all the effort and work you you do for the long term? And I think let's let's take an example. Arsenal is a very good example of sticking to to a plan and a strategy and really build on that on long term. So, of course, there was a lot of different opinions. But but I think for me...
00:50:57
Speaker
A lot of players developed in a good way. um And a lot of the players suited really well. Let's speak about Boja, who had an unbelievable season. And we scored still a lot of goals because we also had good very good players in that aspect. But I think the biggest difference for me was, and also i can speak for both of us, Johannes, was we work a lot in detail.
00:51:26
Speaker
um it's not ah like this yeah we go out and we have a good training and then into the shower we and there for me it was like this digging into the detail about everything in some aspects uh maybe was a little bit different from what especially the the uk players was used to uh we we we we The detail work is is really down to detail. And I understand if you have been in the business for a long time, it can be feels a little bit boring at times. And then it's about navigating and trying to adapt. And to be honest, i
00:52:06
Speaker
I'm not sitting here to defend Johannes or myself, but I could see how much Johannes actually changed. and Because from his standpoint or point of view from day one,
00:52:18
Speaker
until we finished, I could see that he changed and he learned during the the the months we were there. And he also adapted. But one thing he didn't want to adapt to He did it in ah in some situations going, let's let's say, the Portsmouth game away before Christmas. We really played defensively and we tried to adapt i mean and find this compromise about the feeling in the squad compared to how we wanted. So he also changed showed that it he wanted to change a little bit.
00:52:50
Speaker
and But he deep in in his yeah ah football mindset, he couldn't... change his basic principles and his believing in how football needed to be played. and And that, I think, is a strength for a coach because otherwise it would be so easy for the for players or other ones to point finger and say, you said this there and now suddenly you get a little bit insecure and now you change everything.
00:53:18
Speaker
So there is like always never... like it an easy way in football because you can always judge or find a critical approach or critical angle to every um situation that is there.
00:53:33
Speaker
And there, I think he tried to find the best balance to navigate in that. And I think he he improved a lot in that matter. If we just talk about something a bit more positive that I think you and Johanna's really introduced at Norwich and has continued to to sort of cap in, is that you're so passionate about youth development. And i think you really reintroduced bringing academy players through and that's transitioned through to now, particularly Kellen Fisher, um someone that really stood out and has continued to to progress and really stands out still. How high do you think his ceiling is?
00:54:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's actually a really good question. There was a lot of discussion and a different opinion um about Kellen. and I think he's a very um modern ah player, obviously.
00:54:24
Speaker
If you look at how he played the first season, it was unbelievable. Young player playing left fullback in critical moments in his first like almost the full season. He played on the right fullback and and and took a a good player like ah Jack away from his position. He also played midfield.
00:54:45
Speaker
And in the build-up, he played inside in the midfield. So many... so many different the things that we put at him or, and he just,
00:54:57
Speaker
He was amazing how he he he did that. And for me, he's like an intercontinental player. I think you say that. He's a European player. yeah He's this modern, versatile player that you can really put in a minute. And he's very intelligent. He don't have this physical presence, even though he is a little bit of a terrier. And he can make these hard sliding tackles. And he can... I talked with him, come on, you need to show some emotions. You need to... Come on, you cannot be this choir boy with the nice hair and...
00:55:24
Speaker
be nice You need to really show some personality out there. And it was very easy for him to do that. Really, really good guy that I just wish the best. And talking about his ceiling, I think he can he can make it, especially if we should like, in a team playing like, let's say, Brighton, the Serbian ball, all that. where you want to be very dominant on the ball, he he will have a big career. And then it's up to him and his agent always, if he don't stay true to Norwich all ah his career, to find this pathway. Because there you just if you from my point of view, if you need or ah you take the right pathway, then you never look at the money.
00:56:04
Speaker
There you look at the opportunities and the style of play, because then the money will come in no matter what. But don't make the wrong decision because it can destroy your career. And I hope he will like a lot of the players we work with. I'm so happy to see Rory doing so well now.
00:56:22
Speaker
yeah We were never in doubt about him. And and look at the how he plays now. And he actually also lifts Cordoba. Because it's it's a young, you know, Cordoba, Jose, difficult playing with this, ah I don't think I offend him, this old school defender like Shane.
00:56:39
Speaker
And this ah little bit the South American, Panama style. It was, you know, ah but here, this young guy coming in, Rory, and I like that a lot. Kellen, Jose, Lucien.
00:56:53
Speaker
For me, Lucien's ceiling is amazing. The problem now is all his injuries. And I don't know why, because I know the guys there the performance um department, they they try to do everything because his ceiling is really high.
00:57:08
Speaker
but When I look back at all the players I have been able to develop for Premier League, Serie A or La Liga, Wow, he he can he he can really make it if he gets a sustainable period of more years. Because, wow, and Gabriel, the same, Forsyth, too many injuries, unfortunately. He's really interesting player.
00:57:33
Speaker
um A little bit like a young version of Kenny, and maybe, with his left footer, and he has a great character. and it really nice family. He was in my IDP group as well. I talked with his mom and dad sometimes. Amazing.
00:57:50
Speaker
Top class. They go from Scotland for every game. And yeah, i just love that. um And then you have like Liam Gibbs also, unfortunately, too many injuries and a local guy and who who also have, who's one of those players that you just need to have in an environment.
00:58:09
Speaker
He's like this player that, Make sure all the other players get better because he's so loyal and what you need, you cannot have like these 11 eagles on the pitch running ah around at the same time. You need these guys.
00:58:25
Speaker
Tony, wow, I'm so happy for Tony. yeah he was oh He was Tony almost, but...
00:58:31
Speaker
he was injured almost but What a fire. is His personality, his character. I love talking to him a lot and he went through a really tough time and he at one time was afraid his career would end. So I'm so happy to see him. And then of course, Ante, now also bad injury and Oskar Svartow. Yeah, i was going to ask about Oskar because you obviously brought him into the club and how happy are you to see that he's still progressing so well? Yeah.
00:59:01
Speaker
I'm so happy, especially also because under Liam ah menning yeah and Manning, yeah he he really played also a lot. and Yeah, he did.
00:59:12
Speaker
Yeah, he did actually. And and now also under Clement. ah Paul and now he will get back again. I'm still in closely connect contact with him. and I was also a little bit, and my wife, a little bit his mentor helping him moving away from Denmark to England. So he came also for some dinner here and there.
00:59:31
Speaker
and So we promised his mom that we will take care of him. He's still so young as well. So he's another one who the ceiling seems so high because under Manning, we've talked about this on on on our podcast and on previous conversations, but under Manning, he's one of the few players who through that period actually could hold his head up high in terms of his standards were were really strong all of the time, even when people around him didn't want the ball. and he he he came out of that with some real credit.
01:00:02
Speaker
Yeah, and then you have Errol, who was also, you know, I i followed the Premier League two team a lot, saw all the games I could and yeah, the youth teams as well. But Errol Mundel, also we had him in a lot of our trainings and Jacob Wright, one of my favorite characters. and I can see now he's struggling both under Paul Clamont and also under Liam Manning, but In my point of view, with the style of play that that we tried to to develop, I must say, Jacob, what a character. are And he he will have a great career no matter what. ah ah he
01:00:40
Speaker
He has all what it takes, to be honest. And you'll be proud of him one day. I think he he really has a ah great future. um And he will, he's not playing, out he will be one of the players I will steal if I can. hundred no, no. No, No, no.
01:01:00
Speaker
No, but just, you know, and it is. But, you know, I'm... Now we're talking about young players, but you know you also need the glue.
01:01:11
Speaker
um you You need these ah old, experienced players. You cannot just have success and you can never promote to Premier League if you only have young players. So you need then to have the right and old, more experienced players who can lead the culture, drive the culture, who have the understanding of what a process or how you work long term in connection with the with the with the coaching staff. And and there there is really good players as well um in the squad. And I can also see a lot of experienced players came in.
01:01:42
Speaker
so um And then Liam Manning, we have not talked about. We won't talk about him. We're trying to keep things positive. However, I'm i'm about to ask about something relatively negative. Glenn, the amount of times you you mentioned injuries when you were talking about players there, um ah it really it's really stark. And and I think it's...
01:02:04
Speaker
It's been an underlying issue you know over several head coaches at Norwich. You guys experienced an injury crisis. um David Wagner's team, you know kind of prior prior to you guys arriving, you know had I think probably 10, 11 players injured at any one time.
01:02:17
Speaker
Phil Clermont is now going through that at the moment with you know kind of I think it was 14, 15 players injured at any one time. Do you think there's something that perhaps is, don't know, Colney, the training centre is either cursed or this there's something that's going on with the sports science department at Norwich? Or or do you think actually it's it's a bit more about you know kind of modern day football now? There's much more load you know that players have to take on. There's many more physical demands on players. like It just feels like there's more and more injuries in the modern game.
01:02:48
Speaker
yeah um him is it Yeah, it's true what you're saying. Of course, when you have so many injuries, you you need to reflect and you need to have conversations and you need to discuss ah we are we making the right decisions in every aspect. Another part of that is also that every time you change a coach,
01:03:09
Speaker
And if he then have like a little bit of a different kind of approach to the style of play, then the demands physically will also variate. And that is also in ah in in all, ah if I should take...
01:03:24
Speaker
the the physical department a little bit in into, if I should defend them a little bit, it's very difficult, all the the coaches regimes to, to, to handle that because every style of play has a different approach physically. And, and that was one of my, my biggest disappointments, not with Liam Manning, because I, he came across as a really genuine good guy when, When we played Bristol in in the season, I was there home and away. in you know When the manager meets after the game, great guy.
01:04:00
Speaker
um And unfortunately, now he he suffers this personal issue. and but But what what was the for me a little bit you know sad to see was You know, one thing was what we did and we got sacked. But then, of course, when you sit back home in Denmark, you watch, okay, what is then... When you didn't see all the underlying parameters go in a totally different way of what we tried to create and and do, I was not happy about that. Now I can see they're on the right path again. But that that was a little bit strange for me that they just...
01:04:36
Speaker
played without possession, offensive part, all that. And that has nothing actually nothing to do with Liam because I guess everybody knows what kind of a coach came in.
01:04:46
Speaker
ah But that that that was not the positive to see because then I get more and more in doubt about these projects because you talking about injuries, if now the the process and the their approach was the same, there will never be all these injuries.
01:05:04
Speaker
um And then another part that is also important, when you take players, and the youth, as the academy is so important, how they create, and develop athletes physically. And I could see that worked a lot. But then when you also take from other clubs,
01:05:21
Speaker
and And we were so professional, you know. Juracek, we brought our physical department down there two weeks before he came. That is so professional. What more do we want to do? We we had physios and physical coaches going there to Prague and training with him.
01:05:39
Speaker
And then he ended up in ah in a situation like that. So... You know, coming from different backgrounds, from different cultures, training, and then coming together.
01:05:50
Speaker
It is... it isn't And with that load of games, insane load of games, then, of course, you'll get a lot of injuries. And and therefore... keeping this squad, keeping this coaching staff, keeping these staff members, hopefully for a longer period of time, two, three, four years, I'm 100% sure all these injuries, they will drop dramatically.
01:06:19
Speaker
Because then as a physical coach, you also need to understand what kind of a player is Jacob Wright or what kind of a player is Lucien or what kind of a player where he comes from. What did you do in that club? How did you work there?
01:06:32
Speaker
that That is difficult in ah in ah in a tough environment where you want to to deliver results every weekend. But you also need to learn about your employees before you can actually come to the best solution, how to get the best out of everyone in technical, tactical, physical, psychological matter.
01:06:52
Speaker
There are so many things that need to be yeah fit together.
01:07:00
Speaker
you mentioned um Josh Sargent earlier, what are your thoughts on what happened? Because obviously to us, he seemed like a model professional. We all adored him, scored all those goals for us. And then out of nowhere, down tools. Did you see that coming with him? Like what what are your feelings on players' behaviour like that? Because you had a similar experience with Johnny Rowe. Or did you have some sympathy for Josh? I cannot sit here and speak badly about Josh, ah to be honest. and He's absolutely a top guy, a great family. he he could all When we were there, he he could actually go and at that time in the transfer window.
01:07:39
Speaker
But he stayed and there was no problem and he worked very hard. He was a role model. he He did everything he could for the club, for the for the players. he he he approached He was also one of those players that where you could say, we want him to be a on our journey yeah because has all what it takes to make us promote to the Premier League because the way that he sets the standard.
01:08:03
Speaker
That was so important for for the for the group of players. um I had a really good relationship with him. I always had a lot of finishing with him with him in the in the end of every session and especially before and the day before every game and and And we had a lot of humor in our relationship.
01:08:22
Speaker
Then on the other side, it also makes me sad to see ah a great personality and a great player leave in that way. And and without being really into what happened, I totally understand the the the the how the... I think the club handled that in a really good way. Yeah.
01:08:39
Speaker
from what I can see from the outside. Paul Clermang, you can see a very experienced manager who who have dealt with players like that and and and situations like that.
01:08:51
Speaker
And ay The only logical solution I can ah can think of is that there has been like ah whispering in his ear, ah doing something, and then for forever reasoned.
01:09:10
Speaker
he He did that, and when he did that, maybe he regretted it, but then you already stepped out. yeah where you The damage was done. with Yeah, the damage was done. So, and i to be honest, I understand the frustration and the disappointment of the fans, because I also know the Norwich fans. you are you You give so much, and you put all your heart, and it's like...
01:09:37
Speaker
Yeah, you're part of something bigger and and and and the season ticket holders and all that. that You earn so... yeah Yeah, I understand it. And also with the the situation with Johnny Rowe, absolutely...
01:09:56
Speaker
So it disappoints me that... that there are other parts of our football world that that actually in some way or the other destroys and the players' reputation. reputational reputation and But that's that's where also the money and all that comes in in in the football business because they they are good guys. And now I know Emil Holm who played with Johnny Rowe in Bologna.
01:10:23
Speaker
Johnny was also a really good guy. I cannot speak bad about him in the time I worked with him. And and I don't know, like I said previously, I think the biggest gift you you can have as a human being is to forgive.
01:10:38
Speaker
And if I was a Norwich fan, I would hope Johnny one day came back or Josh because they are so good players and then they understand what Norwich is all about. But I also understand the other... um The fans that say, hey, never anymore.
01:10:52
Speaker
and we might We might forgive Josh, but we won't forgive Marcelino, I don't think. No, Marcelino also, yeah. That was also really stupid. But there i understand a little bit more. um Also from, you know, cultural side, you know, if you have worked with people coming from South America or Africa,
01:11:16
Speaker
that that agenda is a little bit different than, you know, a normal guy coming in from Europe and a pretty good, decent background. there are There are some things there that you also need to take into account that can maybe, and yeah, make the reputation of the players bad. But I hope, i think that you understand what I mean. that It's also about, yeah,
01:11:44
Speaker
That's safetiness. And, you know, they don't have the same as we have in our part of the world. So that that there there is other things on on the agenda there. So I don't say it's it's okay, but i I can put myself because I have also traveled in these countries and I have seen with my own eyes what they come from.
Ownership Transition and Future Outlook
01:12:05
Speaker
you You talked um a lot about human beings and ah and actually two human beings that really love our football club, Delia Smith and Michael Wynne Jones, and conscious that that when you were at the club, um you bridged two different ownership models. you know So Delia and Michael were majority shareholders, and then that passed to Mark and the and Norfolk Holdings Group.
01:12:29
Speaker
I guess it's ah it's a two part question. um How warm a welcome did you receive from Delia and Michael? Cause we hear a lot about, you know, how, how much they care about the the staff um and how much they look after them.
01:12:40
Speaker
And then two, like when there was the transition, the kind of slow transition over to, um to Mark's ownership, did anything change? You like, did, did the vibes change at all?
01:12:52
Speaker
No, really not really. Not from what I could see. Um, First of all, my wife is sitting here in a couch next to me almost. And she could actually speak here about what she thinks about Delia and Mike.
01:13:09
Speaker
Unbelievable people. and how they How they welcomed us and and how my wife could talk to Delia and how, yeah, it was, you know,
01:13:23
Speaker
You're blessed when you have an ownership like that for so many years. And maybe the financial situation was not the best, but that's also not only what Norwich is about, what I have learned. So that...
01:13:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's second to none, in my opinion. And it's absolutely a 10 out of 10.
01:13:41
Speaker
And her legacy and Michael Slessie must be forever yeah in Norwich City Football Club. And Mark, from my point of view, what I could see, and i met him once at the training ground and with his son, and I had a really positive meeting with him.
01:14:02
Speaker
um I think... And ownership like him is what, you know, you have seen so many different kind of ownerships. And i myself have tried, you know, Benham in Midtjylland, but I also saw a guy, American guy called Platek who took over in Sundaryuske. And that was really not positive. if He just killed the club and they relegated it after. not yeah Maybe also because I left, but he destroyed 14 years of of culture and history. and and And now they're back again in in the best league. But,
01:14:37
Speaker
e you need to be careful about all these ownerships talking about it and and the regulations needs to be... I understand money rules the world, but it's also about what kind of a club do we want to be? And and I think Delia, she has for many years had the idea that she wanted to bring in an investor, but it needs to be the right investor.
01:15:00
Speaker
And first of all, I i trust her judgment. ah and and And secondly, how he also works strategically, it seems like the best the ownership that you could ever wish as a football club, because maybe there was some chaos ah from summer to winter, and there was a lot of fans I saw after the games being not so happy but about this and that.
01:15:26
Speaker
Otherwise, they they they work strategically. they have they are And when you see how he worked and also built this ah baseball team he has, then you know he it seems like he really walks walks the talk and he's in it for the long term. And what what what else can you wish for as a football club? So there, I think you should be really grateful for that from my point of view.
01:15:49
Speaker
Going back on the honesty point, I think it speaks to a fantastic culture and in theory, a strategic long term project focus ah that comes from Norfolk Holdings Group down that you've got a sporting director who actually felt safe enough to say in managerial interviews, we make quite a lot of mistakes actually on on my watch. we We maybe got rid of the previous guys too quickly and and lurched as soon as there was a storm. and So maybe that is also ah a very clear indication of that. So yeah, but just finally, again, thank you so much for spending the time talking about your time with Norwich. We were sad to see you go and I think you yeah you were really popular with the fan base. um So, you know, you you didn't because of the nature of it not being the end of the season with lots of outgoing press conferences. So do you have a kind of a farewell message or anything that you you would have loved to have had the chance to say to the fans if you'd have had that proper send off at the time when you left the club?
01:16:48
Speaker
ah First of all, I have received so many amazing and messages after I left, but also during time, and I still do. um So i I really feel appreciated and I just wish...
01:17:04
Speaker
Norwich City Football Club, all the best. And I think yeah it was was wonderful being a small part of your club. I will follow Norwich forever and and and hopefully one day come back. I would love to to come back, maybe work even for Norwich again. and So you have a big place in my heart. And you know, it's...
01:17:28
Speaker
people often say things like this and then because it's polite but i really i really really mean it i hope it comes across like that it's just not something i say i'm a very honest person i only say what i mean so yeah and thank you for for for amazing month and time and also on behalf of my family and wife we my My kids love to to visit us there and and friends as well. So, um yeah, I just wish everyone best of luck and I will cheer for Norwich City promoting to um to Premier League. And to be honest,
01:18:03
Speaker
maybe it's not so good that you go into this top six this season, even though I hope, because i i think actually on the long term, it will be good because next season you can really get there. and if you If you keep ah the coach that is there now and and and keep this sustainable pathway and the group of players and keep everything together and then...
01:18:26
Speaker
I think there has been some really great players in and I know almost all of them because they have played in Denmark, almost all of them. So I think it's a very, very interesting group of players you have. And I'm i'm pretty sure that in one or two seasons we'll see Norwich City in Premier League again. And then just one to underline.
01:18:46
Speaker
then you're not there to relegate because that was also what we committed ourselves to when we get up there is to stay there. And and that is that is what you need to to do now now, everyone. And there you need also in the tough times to be a little bit more optimistic and positive because it's so easy to point fingers and be negative. But it's it's in the rough times and tough times when the storm is racing that you really show what this amazing club is all about. So, yeah, thank you.
01:19:13
Speaker
Thank you so much, Glenn. Claire, thank you for your questions. John, I acknowledge you exist. Everyone else will see you after the next set of games. mind how you go.