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Taking the Leap: From Chemistry to Indie Game Development with Mondae Atughonu
34 Plays12 days ago
Summary:
Mondae Atughonu, co-founder of Leap of Faith Studios, shares his journey from being a chemist and hospital manager to leading an indie game studio. This inspiring story highlights his transition from a non-gaming background to game development, his passion for creative problem-solving, and the studio's mission to innovate within the industry. Through their flagship game Haven, Mondae and his team are embracing community feedback, operational soundness, and a philosophy of "taking the leap."
5 Key Takeaways:
- From Science to Gaming (Timestamp: 02:00)
Mondae transitioned from a career as a chemist and hospital manager during COVID-19 to learning game development through Unity and Unreal Engine, showcasing the power of reinvention and passion for gaming. - The Power of Taking the Leap (Timestamp: 08:19)
The philosophy of "taking the leap" drives Leap of Faith Studios. Mondae emphasized the value of calculated risks and learning from failure as key principles for personal and professional growth. - Innovative Gameplay in Haven (Timestamp: 10:13)
Haven introduces unique mechanics, like a companion system where animals contribute to survival strategies (e.g., wolves hunting for food, squirrels gathering materials), blending creativity with functionality. - AAA vs. Indie Dynamics (Timestamp: 13:29)
Mondae contrasted the rigid structures of AAA studios like Bungie with the nimbleness of indie development, where smaller teams can quickly adapt and respond to player feedback. - Preparing for GDC (Timestamp: 34:16)
Leap of Faith's opportunity to showcase Haven at GDC reflects their ambitious vision and commitment to excellence, aiming to attract investment and expand their reach in the industry.
Key Quotes:
- "Taking the leap is not about avoiding failure; it's about learning so much from it that the next leap feels natural." (08:19)
- "Working in AAA taught me the importance of structure, but indie gaming gives us the freedom to innovate faster and better." (13:29)
- "Seeing someone play your game and truly connect with it is the most fulfilling moment for any developer." (06:16)
Where to Find:
Website: Leap of Faith Studios
LinkedIn: Mondae Atughonu
Topics Covered:
- 0:00 – 2:00: Introduction to Mondae and Leap of Faith Studios.
- 2:01 – 10:12: Mondae’s transition from chemistry to gaming.
- 10:13 – 13:28: Unique features in Haven.
- 13:29 – 17:07: AAA vs. Indie game development dynamics.
- 17:08 – 36:59: Preparing for GDC and Leap of Faith’s vision.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Player Driven Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, everybody. Welcome to Player Driven. If you don't recognize us, it's because we've rebranded. But we are still here bringing you the latest and greatest in both gaming and behind the scenes and what's happening.
Mission: Bridging Technology and Community
00:00:11
Speaker
The idea behind Player Driven is to be able to bridge technology and customer experience with both insight, strategy, and heart. A lot of gaming comes from community, and it's important to keep that community together. So with Player Driven, we're looking to make sure we build out that community, hear what you're talking about, introduce you to the people that are making the games that you love,
00:00:30
Speaker
and introduce you to other people that are building tools or building just the platforms that you need
Community Engagement and Discord
00:00:35
Speaker
to see. So a lot of cool stuff is coming our your way. And be sure to check it out at playerdriven.io. We're updating every day with new content, new posts, new information. And we're also building a Discord community. You can find that on the player-driven website. It's on the
Guest Introduction: Mondae Atughonu
00:00:50
Speaker
top right, ah where we're just working with our community, listening to our community, hearing what you want to hear more of, and trying to teach you guys about all the different stuff, again, what makes the game.
00:00:59
Speaker
So we are looking forward to grow with you, for you, and give you the information that you like. With that, we want to bring you into today's podcast. Mondae to a New Drop Spy today to talk about his career and how he got into the gaming industry. Mondae got started in biology and chemistry in a hospital setting. He learned how to become Six Sigma and process oriented. From there, he learned to follow his dreams and his love and started wanting to build games. So he taught himself Unreal and other engines as well. So we're going to learn about his transition from one
00:01:31
Speaker
place to another from that wasn't even related to gaming.
From Chemistry to Gaming: Mondae's Journey
00:01:34
Speaker
That's awesome. ah We get to hear about the unique features that he's building into his games and how he's working with this community to hear what they want to see more of. um We get to hear about his experience from both AAA where he worked for Bungie as well as being an indie game developer under his own brand Leap of Faith and how Leap of Faith is preparing for GDC and what is to come. It's a super interesting episode with showing that anyone can get into gaming no matter what industry you're in. It's a great listen and we hope you enjoy it.
00:02:03
Speaker
Good morning. Good afternoon. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Player Driven podcast. Greg here. Today, we have with us Mondae Atughonu from Leap of Faith Studios. He is the co-founder and he has a super cool story on how he started his game studio. He was a chemist and is now in gaming. And we're going to hear all about that and what
Creative Leaps in Game Development
00:02:24
Speaker
they're doing. So first of all, Mondae, thank you so much for joining us today. You want to do a quick introduction of yourself?
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. um So, yeah. Hey, everyone. Like Greg was saying, my name is Mondae. We can just keep it Mondae. It's easier. I have like a Nigerian last name, so it gets to be a mouthful. um But yes, me and a friend of mine, we co-founded Leafaface Studios earlier this year, and it's just been a whirlwind. I mean, like like Greg was saying, my background is pretty unconventional. I like to call myself the most non gamer gamer in existence because I have like three games that I play, but then I put in like 30 minutes to an hour in almost any game people suggest to me. um And we've just been able to leverage that, leverage our experience and our background and kind of like our spin on making games into leap of faith. um And it's been a great ride. And we're really excited to learn about it. I think I love the non-conventional background of how you got there. and
00:03:20
Speaker
Mondae and I first kind of became acquainted at MDev.
Indie vs AAA: A Creative Comparison
00:03:23
Speaker
He's one of those studios in the Midwest. I think Tennessee is considered the Midwest, right? ah Close enough. its mid southwest Yeah, Yeah. But there have been built something new and something exciting. So before we jump big into it, let's hear about your background. You were in public health, I believe, when you were first getting started. So so tell us about your journey when you were in school and and how you went from there.
00:03:45
Speaker
Yeah, so school, I am one of those people that's like forever learning. um I've been too many years in school to even count or brag about. At this point, it might be embarrassing how many years I keep going back to school. ah But I went to school originally for biology and chemistry. um I actually wanted to make clone troopers. I fell in love with Star Wars. And I was like, I want to make people that are clones of people. That sounds really cool. um And so did that. ah From there, I actually fell in love with chemistry. And so I spent my first few years out of like college as a professional chemist, doing polymer chemistry, which was very interesting. And from there, like Greg was saying, I got into public health, I wanted to do epidemiology. So went back to school, brought in my knowledge there, ended up in hospitals, kind of working in sterile processing to get my foot in the door. um And then, you know, the opportunity arose and they were looking for a manager and I took a shot. I was like, you know, I feel like I'm smart enough to be a manager. I applied for the role and
00:04:45
Speaker
became in the manager of not only that hospital, but four hospitals across ah the Chattanooga area and Alabama. So it was like
Management Skills in Gaming Industry
00:04:54
Speaker
crazy that overnight I was now like the big man in charge of all these hospitals. And with that, I had to learn a lot very quickly. So did a lot of courses about management, leadership, team building, operational, um actually went and got like my PMP, my project management professional certification became a black belt in link six Sigma. so really just exploded into this management world and wanted to learn as much as I could. um But hospitals are stressful. And I was in the hospital pharmaceutical world during COVID and really needed some sort of like brain outlet that was not, you know, surgeons and hospitals and sick people. And so my wife actually suggested to me like,
00:05:36
Speaker
hey, you play a Division 2 all the time. And you're like always gushing about Division 2. Have you ever tried to make it? you know People make games all the time. And honestly, started tinkering with Unreal Engine was very overwhelmed. So I switched to Unity, easier inch path to entry, um did a coding boot camp. And it just made so much sense in my brain that I was like, this is what I want to do. And from that point forward, I just started applying for jobs. and you know, like most people do following tutorials, doing Udemy courses, just building my knowledge of like game design and game development. um And eventually got my job as a production engineering manager with Bungie on the marathon team. And from there, you know, the rest is kind of history went from Bungie to leap of faith. So that is crazy. So
00:06:23
Speaker
First of all, the biggest thing I got out of there is that you want to be some sort of Sith villain by building clone troopers, which is- Pretty much. I respect that. I mean, you know what you want and you got it. so you Then you go to chemistry and biology. You start then becoming a manager for hospitals. That's going to bring out a whole different set of skills than you've probably ever thought about before.
00:06:43
Speaker
As you mentioned, I mean, management, leadership, team building. um And you got Six Sigma certified, which is crazy because that is not an easy process to go through. And yeah, I remember looking at that when I was in school,
Community Feedback in Game Design
00:06:54
Speaker
it's just like, wow, that is a ton of work. And I respect it like it's a process, process, process. But like, yeah, and you keep going. You're you're working there during code, which could not be an easy period in anyone's life. It was not easy for anyone. And then we found the number one game that you like Division two.
00:07:11
Speaker
And your wife pushed you towards it. And I love that. And so you started with unreal. You went to unity. Unity was easier. You went to bootcamp. You started doing tutorials and then you went to work for bungee. That is a wild ride. First off, do you think you're in the place you want to be now? Are you going to change again in a number of years? o You know, it's hard to say. I feel like I'm in the place because there's so many things that you can do.
00:07:38
Speaker
especially like running your own studio. I mean, we're very much indie. It's like two of us and then some like volunteer developers. So there's a lot of different hats that I can just like swap out every day if I ever get bored. Um, but I like, I like this world because there is something about when people play your game for like, maybe not the first time, but when they, when you get to the point where people play your game and you have your in your head, it's like,
00:08:03
Speaker
man, I want people to like play this boss. And when they get to this boss, I want them to feel like they're winning. And then when they do the boss transformation, they like, I'm like, Oh my gosh, what do I do next? And when you see that happen, there is like, it's like the Grinch moment where you're like your heart grew 10 sizes that day. Like you have that feeling where it's like, they get the game and they want to keep playing. And, you know, working on Haven and coven, you know, we've gotten so many things where it's like, as the developers, you look at it and you're like, it's not exactly what I want it to be.
00:08:31
Speaker
But then when people play you know your seven minute demo and they're like, can I play again? You're just like, of course you can. Please keep playing my game.
Game Development Techniques in Unreal Engine
00:08:39
Speaker
ah So I think I'm here to stay. like I have not been in any career that's given me that sense of fulfillment. um And it's you know it's very naive for me to say, like oh, I've learned everything. like There's so much to learn. There's new AI integrations that are changing every day. like Games themselves change every day. And there's so many genres. like just sit here and say like, oh yeah, I think I'm done with games because I've made a crafting survival game. It's like, well, you've never made a fighter. You've never made a mobile game. You've never made a game for Nintendo Switch. Like there's so many things that you haven't done that I think I'm here for the long haul.
00:09:14
Speaker
just just Just to point out, you've mentioned the Grinch now. That's two protagonists we've got going on here. But I love it. yeah I think you're right. I think there's so many tools you can play around with. And being able to see people play games, I mean, you know, it's funny, in a hospital, people get better, people get healthy, and you see that's exciting. And in gaming, you see people playing games and getting excited. There's two huge payoffs with with both sides. and One's actually health, and that's great, and I get that. but You know, you're at Leap of Faith Studios. You were with Bungie, and they're two different cultures. So let's start with Leap of Faith, because that's the one we're talking about right now, right? I loved how when we had our pre-call, you talked about it was about taking the leap. That was something that just stuck with me. That was a great slogan, a great company name, because you know what? When you don't have the background of a gamer, which you don't, and that's fair to say, and anyone can get into the industry without the background, but you are taking that chance.
00:10:11
Speaker
What does that philosophy mean to you personally and how does it reflect in games like Haven and Coven? Yeah. Well, personally, I mean, I feel like taking the leap to me personally, it's just kind of almost like a mantra that was like unspoken for so long, because I've always just done it. Like I'm not one person who's very like apprehensive. I, of course, like I'm very analytical. So I plan things out and I weigh the odds, of course, like the where there's the sands of time, feather versus like your own weight.
00:10:40
Speaker
um which is another protagonist. I need to stop. I have all these dark protagonists. um But I've always been the one to like, if I see it, and I want it, and if I've like, slept on it, and I've done my due diligence, and I still want it, I'm just going to try it. Like, it might fail. I've had tons of failures. But in those failures, you learn so much that like, the next time you decide to take the leap, it's not a failure anymore. Like, you know, you're taking a leap with more surety in yourself and of what you're doing.
00:11:06
Speaker
And so integrating
Personal Insights and Networking
00:11:08
Speaker
that into leap of faith studios, you know, me and Robert have both have very similar backgrounds. We come from operationals. Robert Byers, our co-founder with me. And we knew that the one thing that we saw in like the AAA climate of the gaming industry is just that There's a lot of lather rinse and repeat of like, Hey, this game has been successful for X amount of years. We don't want to change it and we don't want to do too much because then players might get mad or players might not. And you end up with these games are like, yes, you know, we're creatures of habit. We're going to keep playing it, but that love for that game is not the same. We're not asking our friends to come over and play with us or different things. And so for us, we wanted to.
00:11:48
Speaker
integrate the concept of taking the leap into the studio name, Leap of Faith, and also how we approach games. So any game that we do, we really go through like a vetting process. It's informal, but formal at the same time because we really deep dive into what the game could be to make sure like, you know, for Haven crafting survival, what is going to make us different from Valheim and Don't Starve and Power World? Like what are the things we like and we don't like from those genres? How are we going to expand it and make it deeper and make it richer?
00:12:16
Speaker
and then surprise the player with things that maybe they don't expect. um So one of the things with Haven is like our companion system. like You see raccoons and squirrels and things running around the world, and you can use abilities gained in the game to make them your companions. And a lot of people are like, oh, that's cool. I can like pet them and do stuff. It's like, no, like there is strategy to getting a wolf as a companion. Wolves can go hunting. And so they can bring back meat for you. a and they can patrol and become like guard dogs for like your homesteading area um versus like a squirrel, which is my favorite companion in the game. I can send him out and he'll come back with like sticks and stones and more building resources for me. And so there's like this deep strategy to these elements that are surprising the player that again, might not be for everyone. People might be like, I don't need, if it's a companion, I want it next to me. I don't need it to go off to the jungle and come back, but for a some it will.
00:13:12
Speaker
I love that. I love the different strategies that you're implementing just by the actual companion that you have. Are these concepts that were there from the beginning or are you just kind of sitting around with the you and the co-founder and kind of coming up with different ideas?
00:13:32
Speaker
A mix of both. So me and him, again, like with our operations, we had we were like change managers, which is like a very common term that people say. But one of the things that we've been like trained on multiple times from going through seminars and things is like change and iterative process and design changing and things like that. And so we didn't want to get stuck into a game where it's like our first design is the only way we're going to do it.
00:13:55
Speaker
We wanted the game to like evolve with time based off of player your feedback, based off of like how it feels to play the world once you introduce new elements. um But introduce that design in a way where it's not creating crunch with the team. And so the companions specifically started off with, like we knew we wanted the player to be able to like have that cute moment when you have a pet squirrel and you can turn around and pet it. Because like you know Hogwarts Legacy, you can pet the cats and people were freaking out that you could pet the cats. and In power world, you could interact with your pals. And so we knew we wanted some element like that. But then as we started playing the game, we realized that since the survival is so harsh inside of Haven, we needed a way to make it so
Cultural Differences and Creative Freedom
00:14:36
Speaker
I am building a structure here, but my player is hungry. So how can we solve the player hunger? And then you're like, oh.
00:14:42
Speaker
or wolves go hunting. So what if you could send your wolf out hunting, it'll bring back meat. So you build your structure, you now have meat and you can keep going. And it was just something new that we hadn't seen before. Going back a moment, ah something you mentioned that I really liked was that you talked about AAA as being a bunch of, a lot of rinse and repeat. And that's something we've heard on multiple, multiple of our podcasts with, with studios that are AAA studios of saying, you know what?
00:15:09
Speaker
You don't want to piss the player off too much or change something too much because they're used to this, whether it be a looter shooter or a team-based shooter, right? Like these studios want to take these chances, but they also know that there's money in the formula that they have it and they're stuck. And I think that's something you talked about a little bit while you were at Bungie as well. I just talked about it here and on our pre-call and I thought that was fascinating because Now with leap of faith, you get to take these chances, but the question will be is how long will it be until you then kind of get yourself put in a box? And and that's probably years down the line, right? so So you're listening to your community, you're kind of creating this change iteration. I guess what other differences do you feel from a AAA to an indie that maybe gave you that more creative freedom? I mean, honestly, the speed, like, indies have
00:16:03
Speaker
an uncanny ability to pivot and iterate and put things in front of the player at a speed that AAA and AA just can't because there's so much more risk into it. So AAA just don't have the speed versus indies, you know, usually lower investment, lower risk, and they're more connected to the community because those indie developers are the community. Like they started off with the community focus and, you know, whether they came from like AAA background or just somebody building something like in their room or something like that, they can i pivot like, Hey, I put this in front of 10 people last month and they said they didn't like this new climbing mechanic. Let me take that out, put a new buildup on itch or on steam and keep going um because it's just less risk. And so, but us now in the indie space, I think that's how we're going to make sure that we stay kind of like ahead of like not being too tied to anything specifically is like,
00:16:57
Speaker
For the companions, if we put it in front of people and they were like, hey, we don't like the fact that my wolf disappears because he's hunting, cool, it's gone. um Not necessarily saying like anything the player say is gonna change, but we can just, we can do that. It's lower risk, it's okay. um Or we can implement new things very quickly because we're not tied to, well, you know, our parent company is expecting us to integrate these things or we don't have to put like those monetization gotcha moments where it's like, oh, players want this armor that sets things on fire.
00:17:28
Speaker
Let's make sure we make that $3.99 and like, yeah, it's there, but you have to pay for it first. we We're just not chained to it the same way. Yeah. I think that speaks magnitudes to, again, just having a parent company, right? ah And how much your hands are tied. And I think you experienced that as well while you're Bungie, obviously reporting up to Sony. Well, now with Leap of Faith, you have that creative control, right for better or for worse. it's kind of So what you and Robert have come up with is it's your baby. You can do what you want. You're going to listen to your community, work with your community, and build the things that they want to see in there and the things that they will engage with. Because if they'll engage with it, they'll come back to the game again and again and again. You just need to keep your ears open. What are some of the tools that you are using to work and build the game? So Haven right now is built inside of Unreal. um And so we're using a lot of, like,
00:18:21
Speaker
procedurally generated kind of like tools and systems in place to kind of help us create a massive world quickly. um A lot of it right now is manual, like we're doing it by hand. So we're building like procedural generation splines by hand and placing them in the world. We're doing the art ourselves.
00:18:39
Speaker
Um, really because we
Leap of Faith's GDC Participation
00:18:40
Speaker
don't want, like, we kind of like the feeling of getting our hands dirty and like being into it. Uh, cause one of the things that we really stay in behind is we agreed that we never wanted to lead a team doing things that we couldn't also in some capacity know what's going on. And so this early on, what we didn't want to do is have like, you know, a whole bunch of like accessories and add-ons that are like generating this world for us and creating AIs for us. And.
00:19:06
Speaker
creating player behavior for us, and then we go in and we can't fix our own game. um And so we're staying very close to like the development, which makes it very easy for us to integrate feedback. like We know how everything works in that game, so we can very quickly go in, change one thing, update one thing, add a new thing. um so But yeah, it's a lot of procedural content, so a lot of splines. um We're using, of course, like Blender for art and things like that. and I mean honestly just like the resources of like you know tutorials like if there's something that we don't understand we are we are humble enough to say we are not all knowing beings and so we use like community resources discord servers we connect with people on like who have done cool mechanics and games just to see like hey how did you guys implement this or do you have suggestions around that um and a lot of focused play testing so
00:19:59
Speaker
we do a really good job finding people that match the genre of the feature or the thing we want to test and get their specific feedback. So for the companions we did focus play play testing with like cozy gamers that like the whole like animal aspect of games of seed like does this feel good for a building we talked to people who play like you know uh what is it like sons of the forest and rust and like art that have more like a building mechanics Uh, and then for the crafting survivor overall, you know, Valheim don't starve, don't starve
Conclusion and Farewell
00:20:29
Speaker
together. Uh, power world kind of enshrouded. Those are a little bit farther away from like our core demographic, but really just getting in there and figuring out what they want. So, but yeah, tool wise, I mean, it is, it is hands. We are just like hands on and brains on just getting it done. I love it. I think I love the way you're going about it. I know people are really embracing AI and I'm all for that, but I love.
00:20:54
Speaker
the human touch you're putting on the levels and and everything. And at the end of the day, people understand the human touch. They can feel it when they're in the game. We've played a lot of games. It's procedurally generated. Uh, as you can see, one of my favorites over here, uh, levels. And it just starts to feel like repetitive, repetitive, repetitive. And eventually it will get better and i it's already getting better. Right. But I, but I love the fact that you're,
00:21:17
Speaker
your hands on right now. And so yeah you're just learning because that's what you got to do at this point. There's just be a sponge, whether it be blender that you've never used before and you jump into it and learn how to use it. Right. Or maybe you're not a community guy and you say, Hey, how do I even work with discord and build that community? Right. You just got to do it and get started with it and and see where it goes from there. Yeah, honestly. I mean, especially with like level design and world design, like I tip my hat so much to level designers because the process of designing and blocking out a good level that tells the story without having to say anything is such a skill. um And even with us using like procedurally generated content, our co-founder Robert right now is doing the world design because I do a lot of like the feature feature design and feature programming. But there is something to be said about having a path that's intentional that is leading the player to something. And how do you make the player know that like
00:22:11
Speaker
This path is the intentional path. This is like a sub category path, but then like you can still explore everything. um a To me, you can get that with like you know AI assisted generation and you can speed things up.
00:22:23
Speaker
by You know, even with bungee, like there is still that level of the level designer goes in and make sure it makes sense and puts those touches. Like whether it's like, you know, uh, color telegraphing, like red naturally means bad for people. So they might put like red flowers along one one path that leads to the boss battle or green means health. So if you're like trying to tell the player, like health is down this alleyway, you might put like a green shimmer or something like that.
00:22:49
Speaker
And those little touches for like level designers, I'm just like, oh, that's so good. It tells the story so well. Yeah, we did a podcast a while back with one of the level designers from ah Marvel Rivals, Jack Burroughs. And the detail he talks about, level designer, things just like, I am not an organized person. I am not a detailed person. i don't I can't see any of these creativity things. And the way he talks about it is just astonishing. It's just like a eye-opening moment of like a lot of work goes into this and making it work isn't just a computer building something up for you. Like you have to be there and understand it and and walk the walk to be able to do it. It's nuts. Yeah, it really is. It's a different type of brain. Let's go to our quick fire around. We're about halfway through here and we got some quick fire questions for you. You good to go? Good to go. Favorite gaming memory from the Division 2?
00:23:43
Speaker
Ooh, so there's a boss battle when you're trying to take on the cleaners, which are the flamethrower people. um If you play it with one player, pretty much the number of players that are doing that um mission, that's the number of final bosses that spawn. And it's just like big hulking guy with like flamethrowers. And like my favorite memory was me and my brother did it trying to like beat it together. And like we beat the first one and then the second guy comes in and me and him just like,
00:24:11
Speaker
take off because there's fire everywhere. But like moments like that are why I like the vision too, because like you think you're done and then it's just like, oh crap. Like we hear something coming down the hallway and then you turn around and it's right there. Love it. What is your first gaming memory? Uh, oh, uh, okay. So my first PS one, so like the mini kind of like light grayish one that they came out with, we got that on Christmas.
00:24:40
Speaker
And my mom didn't know that it doesn't come with a game. It just came with the old school demo disc. And me and my brother play, I think it was called Bloody Roar. We played Bloody Roar on repeat. And you only had two characters because it was the demo. And we would fight because we were kids and we thought the controllers determined what character you pick. And so we would fight over what controller gets to play as what character instead of just picking the other characters. But yeah. that Yeah, that's that's a core memory unlock. That's an achievement right there. and like that That's my first one. What'd you have for breakfast? Coffee. I am not a breakfast person. Me either. How do you take your coffee?
00:25:19
Speaker
So I used to take it black. I am to the point now where I'll add like two, two scoops of sugar to it, but very dark. ah You're going the wrong way, man. You're supposed to start with sugar and then I graduate to just black coffee. Oh yeah. I'm going the bad way. Um, final question I have is as the founder of a studio, as someone that worked at a AAA studio and also at a hospital, there's many skill sets that you've done. Is there a specific skill you love to tap on the most?
00:25:51
Speaker
um question for quickfire. Yeah, it is. So I would say, okay, I'll give two answers, but from two different perspectives from as a dev, I think the skill that I like to type into the most is like my kind of like, um like, I'm not afraid to just try it, like being like quick on your feet and being instead of like overthinking a feature as a developer and like,
00:26:17
Speaker
Oh, but this needs to do that. Like just do it, just prototype it, just get it in, just see what it feels like. Um, I love that. I have that kind of like get a prototype done, make it a feature later as a founder. Um, I would say my ability to connect with people, like I always think that I'm like an introvert because my friend circle is pretty small, but. Whenever I'm like, you know, we met at M dev and I've connected with a few other people from M dev. Like I liked the fact that I can build worthwhile connections and meaningful connections that stay connected long term. And from a business perspective, I mean, especially in the I think that's just how you grow your community, like being able to be personable to talk with people um to make people want to talk to you and ultimately to make them want to play your game.
00:27:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think come conversing networking from a business perspective is one of the most important skills and the beauty of the gaming industry is that you all have one thing in common. You all play games, right? So it gives you an easy way to break the ice and get started in talking with someone. Absolutely. I agree. Let's talk about the AAA world because you were at Bungie and you worked at Marathon and I probably have a million questions about Marathon and how it would be different than Concord, right? and the But we're not going to go there.
00:27:32
Speaker
we're going to talk about the structure of Bungie, the studio of Bungie. And you know, Bungie was the Halo creator, they went on to building Destiny, Destiny 2 acquired by Sony, right? What is working at a AAA studio like in your perspective?
00:27:51
Speaker
So working at the AAA studio, I cannot lie, it's a dream come true. Like if you're a gamer, and you have aspirations to work, In games, I feel like working in that AAA studio gives you all the things. Bungie was a unique case because they were a big studio, a growing studio that still wanted to feel small and very local. So like for one of their celebrations, you know, Bungie Day, the celebration of the studio, they send out gifts and t-shirts that make you feel really involved, even if you're remote.
00:28:22
Speaker
um Of course, you're watching like the inside source of like all these great games being built and the discussions that you never even knew were being had. So from that perspective, it's a dream come true and it's very exciting every day to like open up your computer and you're making games. From the other one, it's kind of like a shocker to realize that like games are still a business because from the outside, you're like, oh, it's entertainment. It's great. Everyone is so excited. And you hear stories about crunch and people being laid off and like the employee discontent and things like that. But it's real. It's a business. And the downside is working with creatives and managing creatives is not as simple as people want to make it. like Creatives are great. Our brains fire on all cylinders and then some. But we also need a special type of management structure that allows us to explore those creative thoughts while still being like put in a lane.
00:29:19
Speaker
um And, you know, I was a manager at Bungie, so it was my job to kind of like help with that. And that was like the one thing that I kind of like from talking with some of our friends who are other studios and from what I saw, like, I think the the lack of strong management skills at some AAA studios is really like the disheartening part, because it's more of it was an artist that got promoted to being a manager, but was never trained to be a manager. So now the team is kind of falling apart or people don't have direction. um And I think we see that in a lot of the products, like
00:29:51
Speaker
games being published that are like half-baked or are still buggy or get delayed or over budget. I mean, to me that just screams poor management and poor operations, but it's because a lot of times the people in those seats do not have those skills. Do you see I feel like this is a silly question, but do you see the differences between what you learned from management in the hospital setting compared to the creative setting here at Bungie? Like did the Six Sigma and the other trainings that you've taken at the hospital prep you properly or enough for? Honestly, no. Uh,
00:30:34
Speaker
I will say it lightly, but I felt like my my skills in Lean Six Sigma and like project management almost were like null and void inside of the AAA space because the space that I was in at least wanted to kind of like rebuild a system in their own way instead of going with a known system that has been successful because they they wanted to avoid the corporate feel. We don't want to feel corporate. We don't want to feel like corporate America. So instead of following true agile practices or true lean practices or true project management practices, we're going to create our own in-house solution, name it something different, and then have people follow this thing that's like based on nothing, when it would have been easier to point everyone at a found, like a multiple used, founded solution. um So that was like kind of my frustration because you know I came in and I've done project management before, and now I'm being asked to like lead projects and lead a team.
00:31:30
Speaker
And I don't speak the language because the in-house project management tools are in-house and they don't follow the project management standards that I've been trained to and the expectations that I had been trained to. So then when you and Robert decide to start Leap of Faith, both of you being Bungie driven people, right? He was working on Destiny. You were working on Marathon. Do you see yourself, and maybe it's too soon to tell, but do you see yourself leaning more towards the management structure that you saw at Bungie or things that you've learned previously?
00:32:02
Speaker
I don't think it's too soon. We're definitely doing things that we had learned previously. And of course putting like our understanding of the creative mindset and the creative needs on it. But one of the, one of like the biggest pillar of leap of faith is being like operationally sound. So as we're moving forward, we know we want to keep the team small, not because like, Oh, it's cheaper or anything like that. It's because we don't need a big team. Like our team can operate and be effective with the headcount that we've denoted. We don't need.
00:32:31
Speaker
20 artists to do the job of five. like That's just not smart. um So definitely that, I mean, I don't think we're going to implement and like lean too much because this isn't process-oriented, maybe in some of the steps of how we make games will implement lean, but definitely like going to the core root of like agile methodology and making sure that like our teams are working with like that agile mindset using the agile toolset, very much so. um Because we also don't want to create situations where like people that come and work at Leap of Faith Studios only know how to make games for Leap of Faith Studios. And then their skills aren't transferable because we taught them like an in-house thing that only exists when they're working with us. Do you have a favorite story from Bungie?
00:33:19
Speaker
ah Honestly, the first time, so I joined the marathon team um and as part of the onboarding, of course, like you, like it's like see the game, like you need to understand the game.
00:33:31
Speaker
And I will say I'm so excited for Marathon to come out. Like I hope fans with Bungie don't change. Cause I think that game is not going to be a Concord. It's going to be great. Um, I can't speak to it too much cause I'm not there anymore. So I don't know what it looks like now, but from what I saw, it was great. Um, but I think it was like my third day joining Bungie and they was like, finally like, okay, Mondae, let's get you into a play test. And when I saw it, it like all sunk in that like, Oh my gosh, I work at a game studio. Like.
00:34:00
Speaker
I am playing a game that no one has seen before. And it's like a game. And it's like my dream to make a third person shooter. So of course, like Marathon isn't going to be a third person shooter. But like seeing that and then talking with like the weapon engineers and the weapon artists and like understanding how they how Bungie makes successful shooters. It's like it was just blowing my mind. I loved every moment of it.
00:34:23
Speaker
That is awesome. And I could just imagine that's, that's the, oh my God moment, right? It's something I think everyone will be envious of. I think everyone has so many questions about marathon, but your enthusiasm for it is enough to sell it to at least give it a shot. Um, I'm a metaphor. And with that, I have no more questions on AAA unless there's anything else you want to share. No, I think we are good. Let's talk about GDC.
00:34:49
Speaker
because you have a seat at GDC to show off Haven. And that is awesome. Can you tell us about how that came to be and what it means for Leap of Faith? Yeah, so it actually came to be because um our legal representation, Perkins Coie, sponsors are booth. And so I don't know if they drew our name out of our hat or if they were like specifically like this would be a great opportunity for Leap of Faith, but they reached out to us and said like,
00:35:17
Speaker
If you guys can afford to come out here, then the booth is yours. And of course we're going to pinch our pennies as hard as we can and ask for extra money for Christmas to make it work, but it's a great opportunity. Um, we had had it as a milestone that we would love to go to GDC, but definitely not as soon as next year. We were like, you know, maybe like 2026 or something. So it's exciting for us. I think for leap of faith and for Haven specifically.
00:35:44
Speaker
This has kind of like accelerated some of our timelines because we know what we want in that GDC build because we know what the competition is going to be at GDC and what people are going to be expecting. But I mean, this could be an explosion. I mean, just looking at like the response that we got from NDev and what happened with our community based off of that, GDC is huge. And so we have the same kind of success at GDC, you know, I mean, this could lead to investment. This could be funding. This could just be, you know, we break.
00:36:14
Speaker
150 people playing Haven. um We are hoping that we can get full multiplayer setup by GDC. So the one thing that's going to make our GDC build different than MDiv is like people will be able to play with each other and experience Haven together. And we just think that that's going to be the tipping point that we need to get people into Haven playing more consistently. I think this is awesome. I think it embellishes ah the the company's slogan of take the leap, right? Yeah, it's nice. It's nice to have a deadline, right? Even if it's months out, it's just like, all right, this is the point in time, we need to have x, x, x and x working and by by that time. And if it's not working, we got to make it work. There's no not working. And and I think that's fantastic. I think it'll be super exciting. And I think, as you said, like, of course, you're gonna take that opportunity, right? this is Yeah. Time to network time to meet people.
00:37:07
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. We're very, it's like that, uh, like top of the roller coaster excitement when you're like waiting for that fall to happen, because you know, that's the fun part of the roller coaster, but your stomach is in knots too. Cause you're like, crap, we're about to fall. Um, we're not about to fall, but it definitely feels like this is a big thing that we need to make sure we are on top of. But I mean, I'm so confident in the team and even, you know, we had a check-in with them yesterday just to see how things were going. And I was, I'm constantly amazed with like,
00:37:36
Speaker
how not only they put some of these features in place, but then take it that step further, you know, take that leap and they're like, Hey, you know, we want the building system to be this, but I also was like, well, what if our building system did this? Because I was thinking about this and how I wish it could be like this. so I'm in other games. so Let's do it in hours. I'm like, absolutely. Yes. Full send it. Have you put any thought into, if you can get one thing out of GDC, what would it be? It would probably,
00:38:04
Speaker
Yeah. I think more than anything, it would be investment. Like right now we're still pre-funding with leap of faith. Um, investment is really kind of like our main goal. Uh, of course building the game and continuing to have like a good working prototype, but investment means that we can start, you know, building out the team. So right now, like I was saying, it's mainly me and Robert, we have an advisor team, and then we have two other kind of like volunteer developers. But investment means that, that, that team cannot be fleshed out. We can get the core team.
00:38:34
Speaker
Um, and we have the funding we need to like safely and confidently get haven to that, you know, out for build. Um, and so yeah, we just, that would be the biggest win, like to have that. Even if it's not, you know, the full on, like here's the check, but having that like shark tank moment where an investor comes up and they're like, Hey, send this your pitch deck. Let's have coffee the next morning. Let's grab dinner. Um, and kind of start moving down that pipeline. That would be the biggest one. Cool, man.
00:39:01
Speaker
Well, Mondae, I think that's all the questions I have for you today. Can you let us know where our audience can find Leap of Faith Studios and yourself? Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn. I'm probably the only Mondae you know, hopefully. If not, then I might need to go fight some days of the week, but super easy to find on LinkedIn. So I'll make sure, Greg, that you have all of those. um You can also catch up with Leap of Faith Studios at our website, leapoffaithstudios.com. um From there, you can get the link to Play Haven. Haven is available on Steam as a demo. And yeah, and then from there, you can also get into like our Discord servers that we kind of update people with as well. So all of those links are on our website. Cool, man. Well, Mondae, this has been awesome. We'll have links to Mondae's account. We'll have links to Leap of Faith Studios, which is just leapoffaithstudios.com, on our player-driven
00:39:52
Speaker
blog or podcast. I don't know what I'm calling it yet, but we're going to have it there. ah I'm super excited. I love your story. I love the ambition of getting into gaming from a field that was not at all to get me. I love that. It was your wife that gave you that push. You taught yourself unreal. You taught yourself unity. You went built out unreal.
00:40:09
Speaker
you've done it all. And I love that mantra of just always keep learning, man. Like, yeah, for one life, absorb what you can be that sponge, learn what you love to do, learn what you don't love to do. But you're clearly building something out of passion with you and Robert. I'm excited to be able to watch the progress of haven and coven as it's as it starts coming out. And I thank you so much for coming out today. Thank you so much for the opportunity. We'll talk again soon.
00:40:33
Speaker
We hope you enjoyed today's podcast with Mondae and get inspired by his story showing that anyone could get into gaming if they put their mind and some time into learning the tools that are available to them. Next week, we have a great episode coming to you with Scott Reyes-Monas. He is the founder of Mod.io. We are going to talk about UGC's role in expanding game life cycles, breaking down barriers for console modding, and the business case for UGC.
00:40:59
Speaker
It's an awesome episode with lots of cool content about UGC if you want to start learning what that is and how you can utilize it in your game. So we hope you have a great week. Be sure to check us out at playerdriven.io and we'll talk to you later.