Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Sam Holness & Tony Holness.
55 Plays4 years ago
Sam, better known as “Super Sam” is a talented Triathlete who happens to have Autism. His current goals are to compete at Kona and to also motivate others with Autism.
Tony is Sam's Dad and Coach.
We spoke with Sam and Tony to learn more about:
Sam's Triathlon story so far.
How they are approaching Sam's current training for his goals to compete at Kona.
We also discuss participation in sport for people who have additional needs.
You can follow Sam on Instagram @samholnesstri and his website is https://www.samholness.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Sam Holness, the autistic triathlete
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to this episode of the UK Sportstart Podcast. I'm Joe Williams. Today's episode I speak with triathlete Sam Holness and his dad and coach Tony Holness. Sam, better known as Super Sam, is a talented triathlete who happens to have autism. His current goals which I've taken from his Instagram are to compete at Kona and to also motivate others with autism.
Sam's journey and preparation for world-level triathlons
00:00:27
Speaker
I spoke with Sam and Tony to learn more about Sam's triathlon story so far and how they're approaching Sam's current training for his goals to compete at a world level. Let us know what you think. You can get in touch with us through our social channels, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. It'd be good to hear your thoughts on the podcast. Enjoy the rest of your day and we'll see you next week on the next podcast.
00:00:55
Speaker
Hi, Sam and Tony. How are you? We're very good. I've been training every day and every week. And Friday is my rest day. I knew today was your rest day. I remember us saying when we spoke last week, so it was a good day for us to arrange this today, wasn't it, Sam? It was. Definitely. Definitely. Good stuff. OK, so.
00:01:25
Speaker
Let's start with that, Sam. What is it that you like to do on your rest days when you're not training? Normally on my rest days I do some one indoor cycle for 90 minutes.
00:01:40
Speaker
or an ill phase, a strafic conditioning. And if I'm not doing any of those, sometimes I go out to have a walk to Kingston, for example, or go for shops or have a coffee in Costa. And sometimes I go to the game shop and have a walk. Nice. I love a Costa coffee as well.
00:02:10
Speaker
What is it that you like about triathlons, Dan? What I like about it is the three disappears, the swim, cycle, the run, the new roads, the new worlds, and the best of all getting the med game medals at the end.
00:02:39
Speaker
Yeah, I love getting the medals as well. It's a good bit, isn't it?
Sam's training routine and motivation
00:02:44
Speaker
So, speaking of medals, do you have a favourite event you've taken part in? Definitely. My favourite of them all is the Superheroes Try Adorny.
00:02:57
Speaker
It's like a fun event with athletes with different disabilities, such as autism, Down syndrome, seizures, amputees, ether, an angel man, and different types of disabilities. And my second favorite part... I had to look at it. Of course.
00:03:23
Speaker
And my second part of, er, my second favourite is at Kaskais. Kaskais is the best part of the Kaskais, whereas I cycled through the F1 track in Israel. Oh wow, that's cool, isn't it? Definitely, yeah.
00:03:41
Speaker
That's very cool. Of course. Yeah. I had a look at the, just for listeners to know, we had a chat last week, didn't we, to arrange this? And you mentioned the Dorney Lake event and I had a look at that and it looks fantastic. I think we might come and take part in that one next year. Yeah, that'd be fun. Yeah. Tell me, how do you prepare for these events then? So on the evening before and on the day of an event,
00:04:12
Speaker
okay because i i've prepared a checklist i have a checklist this checklist makes me check what i've got to prepare like swim gear cycling gear and running gear
00:04:29
Speaker
and most importantly water bottles and nutrition. So I check to see if everything with me wins it with one side so I can get it on the other side and run it in the other just to make sure everything's sorted and ship shape. And for dinner,
00:04:51
Speaker
For dinner, I'm normally a gluten-free. I eat gluten-free. No red meat, just white meat only. And a special shake, for example, with bananas or milk, the season races. Yeah, that all sounds easy on your gut for the next day for win the racing. Definitely. Yeah. So do you...
00:05:19
Speaker
Do you have a favourite discipline out of the three? Swim's my favourite discipline out of three. I started swimming when I was little before I can speak. Yeah, brilliant. Swimming also makes me confident and reacts.
00:05:44
Speaker
Yeah, so my son, I know we mentioned this last time, is autistic and he loves swimming and he's the same as what you just said. It seems to really relax him when we take him swimming. So yeah, it's lovely to hear. I enjoyed your video. I watched it on YouTube and on there you have got a t-shirt with autism is my superpower on it. Can you tell me
00:06:14
Speaker
Yeah.
Strength training and progression
00:06:15
Speaker
And you've got, oh, I see you've got one on there as well. Can you tell me about how you feel your autism helps you with your triathlon training and your racing? Autism is making me motivated. I never miss a training schedule. Never wait. Yeah. It sounds like you're very focused then. Yeah.
00:06:43
Speaker
It does. And it doesn't matter what the longer distance is, such as a two and a half hour indoor roll or four hour indoor cycle. I did see on your Instagram that you do big four hour cycles on Zwift. I've just joined Zwift. Oh God, definitely. So, yeah.
00:07:13
Speaker
Um, I also love the bit in the video where you, when, when you were saying, shut up legs, go faster. That's a very good, um, technique when things get hard, isn't it? Yeah. Um, tell us about, about your training. What does your training week look like at the moment? Well, on Monday, did a 33 K run at Richmond park.
00:07:40
Speaker
Tuesday, a 30k in row, indoor row, for by an hour's indoor cycle. Wednesday, an outdoor cycle in the park, seven laps, for by a here at run, six here at runs. Thursday, a two hour cycle.
00:08:07
Speaker
followed by a 20k indoor row and today after the chat I'll be doing a 10k run followed by a stratific conditioning build phase Saturday a hill rep run followed by a 90 minute indoor cycle and a build phase
00:08:33
Speaker
Sunday, hill reps, and for about a two and a half cycle, indoor cycle. It's an impressive schedule. So do you do strength training? What strength training do you do? I know you mentioned the rowing now, that's very good for your strength, isn't it? Do you do any specific strength training?
00:08:58
Speaker
Well, I do strength and conditioning, such as, for example, the dumbbell curls, or the kettlebell swings, or the dead wrists, and even core workouts, for example, the site prank or dead bug. Very good.
00:09:24
Speaker
And you're on Zwift, aren't you? I've seen that you're on Zwift. I am. I'm currently at level 48. You're flying. You were on 47 when we first spoke last week.
00:09:40
Speaker
I'm on level seven now. I was on level three, I think, when we first met last week. I've picked it up a bit. I've a long way to go to catch you up, haven't I? Very long way. I've only got two more rifles, two I maxed the cycle, eh? And when that treadmill comes, I'll be using the treadmill for a swift run.
Inspiring others with autism through sports
00:10:02
Speaker
Oh, nice. You're going to do that as well. Very good. I'll make sure to follow you on swift.
00:10:08
Speaker
you better yeah so last question sam uh would you like to give some tips to other people with autism who may not taking take part in sports but would but they would like to don't let your autism stop you not doing in sport i have just become an ambassador for ambitions about autism that really is fantastic well
00:10:38
Speaker
You'll be inspiring lots of people to take part, I'm sure, in more sports, Sam. Thank you. So Tony, to your triathlon coach and also Sam's dad, Sam's got some serious performance goals and wanting to compete at world level and get to Kona. Which races are you and Sam preparing for currently?
00:11:04
Speaker
Well, we were planning to do Marbellus 70.3, but that's cancelled. Then we're going to do Mallorca Iron Man as his first one for the year. And that got cancelled. So right now, it's Covid messing stuff up. So I think we're definitely going to do Cork in August.
00:11:26
Speaker
and Wales after that one, as two we think will happen in the timeframes. And there's a backup, outlaw 70.3 or something like that, if we get it, if the restrictions allow it, you know, give him some race practice, because he needs to race now. Yes. But when was his last race? God, his last race was in probably Kesh Kai in 2019.
00:11:56
Speaker
He's done some virtual Ironman races in the interim. Um, but that's really it is the virtual races. I mean, there's just 2020 just last year, isn't it? You know, competing for everybody, basically. What are your, um, what are your target times to qualify what you named before? So.
00:12:23
Speaker
The first one is to do sub 11 for Iron Man and that's well on. I think we're looking at our swim.
00:12:35
Speaker
five-hour cycle um four-hour marathon which is 10 hours and then whatever happens in the middle should get him sub 11 and he's well on his way to doing that he just did a virtual iron man 70.3 sorry half iron man um and he did that in four hours 46 yeah and we know there's there's there's more time to gain back on that on the cycling so and 446 was good he came
00:13:05
Speaker
an eighth out of three hundred and eighty three virtual competitors and he came third in the UK and I think top in his age group. So it's looking good. It's good. Yeah, very good. So let's go back to the start of Sam's training.
Challenges and achievements in sports
00:13:24
Speaker
I'm really interested in the journey taken so far. So I understand that with autism, there are challenges, which are things like gross and fine motor skills and
00:13:35
Speaker
as Sam said before, that communication as well. What challenges have you had to overcome together that are presented because of Sam's autism? I think when we started out, I mean, I didn't know anything about coaching, yeah, at all. And what we did is a normal thing. We sent him to Sam, had the challenges of not wanting anyone to physically touch him or
00:14:05
Speaker
touch anybody basically, you went through that phase for quite a while. So we did what all good parents do and we sent him to judo classes. It's full contact, yeah. And I think the answer is that we always, you always have expectations of your children. So it doesn't matter what teachers and psychologists tell you and ed psychs and stuff like that.
00:14:34
Speaker
So Sam was always good at computer games. He was a good gamer. So he could concentrate for long periods and he had dexterity on the computer. So thinking, hang on, you know, and he can also type up 40 words a minute. So although the motor skills, fine motor skills weren't there, when he wanted to do something,
00:14:57
Speaker
It's like you could do it, so we had to find a way to pull that out of him. So he did judo, he got a brown belt, and then we sent him, he went to a running club, a local running club, because his record, he ran like Daffy Duck to start with, and then he was a duck out of water, but all of that's gone and improved. And I think it happened because
00:15:21
Speaker
what the autism allows sound to do is to, he learns visually so he can see something, learn it and repeat it, practice it until he gets it right.
00:15:32
Speaker
And that's basically what we've done. Let's not just gloss over what you just said there, because Brown Belt is a high belt, isn't it, in Judo? Yeah, it's one below black. And you'd have got this black belt if Covid didn't happen and they've had to close the dojo at the local school. Yeah. Yeah, of course. The best thing is.
00:16:00
Speaker
He just took to it, and he was the first one at the gym, last one out, and he'd fight anybody. It doesn't matter how big they were, third degree Dan, he was the first guy to put his hand up to fight. So, brave.
00:16:16
Speaker
I don't know. I wouldn't call it brave, but he was brave. He was just absolute. He's absolutely fearless like that. Yeah. So, um, so, you know, it's a sensei at, um, the dojo that caught that named him super Sam because he took him from the beginning. I mean, it's, it's gosh, it's really interesting you asked that question. So when Sam first went to the dojo, he sat on the side for three or four weeks watching.
00:16:47
Speaker
and wouldn't join in. And then he joined in a little bit during the warm-up, so it was press-ups. And press-ups were hard, yeah, because of the coordination of press-ups. You know, he was bending his back instead of his arms, and that took time to learn, for example. And there's still a few exercises like that which are a bit
00:17:08
Speaker
You know, a bit difficult, but we just don't use those now. And then he joined in and slowly, gradually, I remember the first time we tried to pick up the mat in the gym and to pick it up and put it on his shoulder in the correct way is something you had to learn. So I talk about Sam learning to swim and everybody knows you got to learn to swim, but Sam also had to learn to run.
00:17:36
Speaker
properly to get the motor skills. Yeah. Just like to learn to ride a bike. Yeah. So it's been that learning process all the way through. How did you coach him to learn to run? Videos.
00:17:59
Speaker
taking it, breaking it down into small chunks. So it's about working out mid strike versus
Overcoming sensory challenges
00:18:08
Speaker
heel strike, getting the right biomechanics. And then you went to the running club, I think Tuesdays and Thursdays. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Tuesdays and Thursdays. And yeah.
00:18:22
Speaker
I had a little altercation with the coach, which I seem to always do with coaches because I had a little bit of expectations of him. I saw I knew Sam was physically strong. I think a lot of people notice him, you know, when when Sam used to get angry, I could feel his strength. Yeah. So he had really strong core strength. Everything uses body. If we had to have a little
00:18:48
Speaker
You know what it's like with autistic kids. Yeah. You got to hold him sometimes. Yeah. And, um, he was always strong. And I think the whole thing was transferring that strength, that physical strength into something like running. So we had to break it right down from the steps to mid strike, not heel strike, um, to doing strength conditioning. And it took a long time, um, to get him to breathe properly was also key.
00:19:15
Speaker
Yeah, because it's breathing. So what happened is once he started running and you're swimming already, then your body's forced to breathe in a certain way. And once that breathing takes over, it helped to reduce his anxiety. So that's one reason I think sport is so important. It controls your breathing. It controls, you know, if you're not breathing right, you can't run far.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah, when you're tired, it forces your body physically to breathe a certain way. So that's some of the stuff we actually did. And then we took him to park runs, which is also interesting because we had to take him outdoors to run in a group of people didn't like crowds. Yeah. And then we saw his competitive nature come out of him.
00:20:02
Speaker
because he would just chase people all the time. And then you did some 10K races. Yeah. So we went for the 10K and then we did the first half marathon. Where was that? It was in the river. There was no waybridge. Yeah, it clocked. I think just around 92 minutes and he'd never done one before on a winter muddy day.
00:20:32
Speaker
And that was like, where did that come from? It's natural. It's natural, but I think the, once you, yeah, so that's the trading, the judo, the same thing happened. He can skate as well. He can ice skate. So he went to a group called the werewolves. Werewolves down in Amsterdam. I don't know if you ever heard about them.
00:21:01
Speaker
I don't know them. I don't know them. They run a skating program for autistic kids.
00:21:17
Speaker
And we took Sam there and he learned to ice skate. It took him probably a lot longer than you or I would, but he got significantly better because he took his time to learn and repeat. So lots of things like that. And he is where he is today. He just keeps pushing.
00:21:37
Speaker
He's got a big engine on him, massive engine, and now we've just got to get him faster. Sorry, just to go back a stage, I love how you described that. Running is strength in motion, and that's that journey that you've taken through. It's a really, really good way to explain it.
00:21:59
Speaker
differences. Have you had anything different with his strength training, for example? I mean, you mentioned press ups there and things like that because of his motor skills. Yeah. So I think the main thing we've done is to he had the good things. We got some a PT who's a good friend. He's a really great guy. And he helps them with the coordination, lifting weights and stuff like that. And we tend not to do
00:22:24
Speaker
Um, big weights, low reps. We tend to use smaller reps, high, high reps. Um, so it doesn't injure himself. It's really key. Um, and that's because sometimes to get his back in the right place when lifting heavy weights, he just injured himself and there's absolutely no need for it. So he does a lot of kettlebells. And I think he, he also, I think if I'm going to tell you, he does yoga every night.
00:22:51
Speaker
for stretching and using the TRX as well. So using his body weight for resistance. And that's the way we've done it. And we don't, but I've also moved away from him doing a lot of running as well, just pounding, pounding, pounding. And I'd say 90% of his running is done around the football pitch on trail. It's all trail running.
00:23:16
Speaker
So even some of his times, I know are not fast, but he's on a trail and he's on a lumpy trail. Yeah, he's not run a marathon on the road yet. And I know he'll be fast on the road because the engine is there. Yeah. So all of that is naturally strong. I think that the main thing for triathlon is strengthening his core. Because if you're in the bike position for a long time,
00:23:43
Speaker
One of the things that happened in Kashkai is that because he was in the era position for the whole cycle, he got his IBS played up. Yeah. And then he got bloated and cramps. And for everything I've seen, that's about him strengthening his core.
Training adaptations and dietary management
00:24:02
Speaker
So what we did, we've done in the last six months is we've moved to indoor rowing.
00:24:07
Speaker
for a lot of his aerobic and anaerobic work and strength conditioning because it's a full core workout rowing. It's probably the best exercise. And he's the guy in the gym. You know, when you go to the gym and everybody is rowing machine sitting there on its own, Billy, no mates. Yeah. Sam's the guy who's sitting on the rowing machine. So, you know, two and a half hours on it. And people, even the guys in the gym are saying,
00:24:35
Speaker
It's an animal, yeah? But if he has a task to do, he just gets on with it. Yeah, he's not a 15 minute, 20 minute guy on the rowing machine. It's like two hours plus with intervals or just a straight aerobic session. So we use the rowing machine a lot. That was shredding his core, shredding his upper body for swimming, because there's no swimming on now. So we moved to the rowing machine to help with that.
00:25:02
Speaker
That's kind of leading on to accessibility. How accessible has all parts of training been for Sam? Is it venues, for example? So I think about loud music with my son. We don't often go places where there's loud music, which very often there is in gyms and places like that. Is there any considerations like that you have to take into it? It's interesting, Joe. We've been through the music one for years and years and years where
00:25:30
Speaker
You didn't like loud music, did you, before? You didn't like loud noises. So Sam didn't like loud noises. He didn't like crowded places. And we are good parents, so we took him to crowded places where there were lots of noise. So we took him to athletic meets around a lot of people. And I think the way we broke out of it is... Yeah. ...Amosper supporters. So I took Sam to his beloved Chelsea.
00:26:00
Speaker
to watch European nights, which has everything that would challenge him. But I know he loved Chelsea more than the noise. Yeah. And therefore that was sort of the process towards getting him to be around people, taking the tube with lots of people on and the noisy environment. So it's mum always says that if you
00:26:28
Speaker
The way you can get around some of this is distract the person so you change the environment and he's so focused on the football that he's not worried about the noise of the people. I'm so excited about being at Chelsea.
00:26:44
Speaker
football club. And I don't know if you've ever been to Chelsea before, but during the game, they have a section where they sing stand up if you hate Tottenham, stand up if you hate Tottenham. And of course, what does Sam do? He stands up and he says, my dad is a Tottenham supporter. Yeah. In the middle of, you know, 40,000 people at Chelsea.
00:27:05
Speaker
You know, so, yeah, and I just sit there, you know, like, yeah, and it's like, ooh. You know, it's okay. So we use things like that. I think the big breakthrough with the noise for Sam, biggest breakthrough, is when he went to uni. And I think in year two, he started going to the BOP. And it's, you know, he started going to the BOP there and it's like, there was noise, but I think the atmosphere, the socializing,
00:27:35
Speaker
know being around his classmates you know mixture girls and boys for example around the girls it was all of a sudden it was like this is cool you know so every Friday night he was at the BOP and the noise the noise issue we challenged because I used to
00:27:52
Speaker
I used to have big reggae sound system boxes and he always hated it. And I wanted him to get into music like me. And now, you know, he's in the house. If he's playing his own music, he's cool. He's used to the noise of music now because we've always had music in our homes. Sometimes he doesn't like it, but it's you never get over it. Yeah. Sometimes you get anxious by the noise. And we always say, go to your room, you know, it's
00:28:21
Speaker
you know, go on the bike and cycle two hours, you know, get away from us, but we're not turning it down for you. So we challenge his space all the time. If we were to really dig into the nitty-gritty of his training, you know, and his performance in races at the moment, what's that nitty-gritty that you're working on? You mentioned CORE before, but there's kind of an incremental... Yeah, incremental string we're cool with, yeah.
00:28:47
Speaker
Running, it's about speed work. Okay, so his aerobic capacity is huge. So it's about getting the speed work done now. Tracks are closed, but we found a relatively flat part of Richmond part that he can do some work in. It's a tarmac, so we're doing some speed work there. We're going to start doing some speed work, which means I've got to get on my bike.
00:29:14
Speaker
you know, and be in front of him and get him to follow me. So that's my next task. So we're going to start these with speed works very key. On the bike, interestingly enough, it's about proper gear selection. Okay. We spent the past few months working on higher cadence type of pressure cycling. So
00:29:40
Speaker
If you look at the cyclists out there, one thing they say about triathlons is if you cycle in a big gear, you're going to be using the muscles you need to run. Whereas if you're in a lower gear and you're spinning a lot more, you'll save a lot more yourself for the run. So we've moved up probably from about 75 RPM up to about 90 RPM. So it's more of a crisp room.
00:30:03
Speaker
type of cyclist now than someone churning out the big gears. So that's one thing we've done to save his legs. And then bike control is really important. So he's not been out a lot because of the winter and the weather. So he's now started to go out in Richmond Park again on his tri bike in his era position, start cycling there. I think the next set of things
00:30:35
Speaker
for cycling is to do, so he does four hour rides, so we know he can ride 180k, not a problem. So what we're doing is getting up to, he's riding 120k quite comfortably indoors. So it's riding, the other day did 120k and a 5k run.
00:30:56
Speaker
You have to see, you get this thing called jelly legs afterwards. You have to come off the bike, your legs don't belong to you. So I've got him to a 5K run. And then what I'm going to do is get him to do maybe 80K and a 10K run and break all of that down. So eventually,
00:31:11
Speaker
He's doing 120K and a half marathon, for example. Then we'd go back to 80K and 33K and so on. And we'd get as close as we can to full Ironman. Um, the way we're doing them, we'll do the shorter ones in a brick session, back to back. But the others, what we'd probably do is have him cycle 120K in the morning, have some lunch, have a rest in the nap in the afternoon. He calls it a Federer. He's two hour nap every day. And then he can get up in the evenings.
00:31:42
Speaker
and do his half marathon or 33K. So we don't have to do everything together, because I don't want to overstress his body. But that whole break between morning and afternoon, so it's two sessions a day, and then probably once a week or twice a week, we'll really stress him, and then give him a day afterwards to recover. So most of it's about getting speed. It's about getting speed on cadence, about proper gear selection.
00:32:10
Speaker
Um, the final thing, which I think is going to be a challenge for everybody is mechanics. Fixing the chain slip, repairing a flat, yeah, on the road because we use two less tires at the moment. And that's going to be the old gooey white stuff in there if he's on the road changing. So that's what we're doing. A lot of what we're doing now is the mechanics, you know, touch wood. He's not at a flat yet, but mechanics is important. I don't want him to DNF because he can't fix his bike.
Sports accessibility and inclusion
00:32:40
Speaker
Are there any extra considerations for the two of you? So you say you're going to go to Cork, for example, or Wales. I love it down there, by the way. It's beautiful. So are there any extra considerations for the two of you when you travel to events?
00:32:58
Speaker
I'm thinking, so when my son goes, we have support from a local hospice, so we'll make sure he's got all of his teddy set up the way he has them set up in his bedrooms. He's a, that comforts him. Is there any, is there anything to travel that you have to consider and make sure that they're in place? You know what, Joe, it's taken time to get to where we are. And I think, I tell everybody that when they meet Sam,
00:33:26
Speaker
It's the 28th, you know, it's 28 next week. You're seeing him at 28 and not at 8, 10, 12 or whatever, yeah? So you're seeing the end product and all the stuff you go through in the middle.
00:33:40
Speaker
And I know when Sam travels now, even when we're on the plane, so you pack your own bag, don't you? What do you put on that bag, in your bag, when you travel on the plane? Normally, I pack my DVD player games, such as free disc or a switch, some magazines.
00:34:00
Speaker
and suduko and some snacks. Yeah. So he has his pack that he carries with him. So he can listen to music, watch DVDs, videos, the things that calm him down that are familiar. The big one that we made a mistake with over the years is he can't eat. He has to have gluten free, no red meat two days before he travels.
00:34:29
Speaker
on a plane or does long journeys. This upsets his stomach. And the last time, where were we? We were coming back from Wettucey's grandparents in Jamaica. And coming back on the plane, he did the biggest Ralph you could ever see on the person sitting in front of him. And
00:34:48
Speaker
It was like everything just came out, you know what I mean? It's like, and I'm just sitting there and I'm going, you know, it's all over me as well and his mother going, oh my God, this woman screamed, you know what I mean? But we just, we thought it was okay. We planned and then we just stopped and had a quick meal before the flight.
00:35:08
Speaker
And that just set everything off. It's just the bloating and the pain. And I mean, that was eight hours. You know, as soon as the tour was up, six hours, it was like the pain. It's awful to see. But once it came out, it was cool. You know, he just put his headphones back on and watched the video. The poor woman had this stuff in her hair.
00:35:29
Speaker
Sam spoke about it before as well, didn't he? So that's what he's taken forward and now as part of his preparations for races. So that was the first stage we made. And so the other thing is.
00:35:43
Speaker
Sam's mistakes, I can hold my hand up as dad, coach, caring parent and saying, we should have seen it. So we learning as well. And so the prep, the prep, the prep is also nice to get his bag ready. I packed the bikes, break down the bikes. I
00:36:03
Speaker
carry the bags, I make sure the nutrition. I mean, I'm this bag carrier and taxi driver. He just sits in the back and chills out. I mean, my job is to do the mechanics, bike the bikes, everything. I drive them there. I get them up at four o'clock in the morning and drive to an event. I get everything ready the night before with Sam. And what I'm doing is giving him more responsibility.
00:36:27
Speaker
in terms of his checklist and billing a checklist to get things done. But, you know, I'm taxi driver, bag carrier. I mean, you know what it's like. I just, that's my role. And afterwards, it's like, I'm the guy sitting on the side with his mom worrying, is he gonna be all right? Is he gonna come back when he goes off on a 40K cycle and stuff like that? So it's rewarding. It can be scary.
00:36:57
Speaker
But it's what he does, what he does. A lot of my questions really are pointed towards barriers. And if I think about just in general, and I'm in society, 9 out of 10 places where there's probably not the right changing facilities, let alone people championing people with additional needs taking part in sports at high levels like this.
00:37:27
Speaker
What other support and things are needed in your opinion to make sports more accessible for people with additional needs? There's so much. I can't even, you know, it's probably a whole other podcast on this. So the first thing is coaches. So coaches need to be trained or coach to coach people like Sam.
00:37:54
Speaker
And in saying that, they have to have reasonable expectations of them. I call it about finding somebody's gift.
00:38:06
Speaker
I think that makes them happy, makes them smile, and then nurturing that and bring it to the fore. So a lot of coaches meet someone like Sam and they sort of go, well, it's autism. He's not necessarily interacting with me, talking to me. So they talk to the other people. As a matter of fact, sometimes when I'm with him, they talk to me and I've got to say, speak to Sam.
00:38:30
Speaker
Yeah, he's he's he's he's he's the athlete. He's your customer. Don't talk to me. It's like I've got to translate. And there's a little story behind that when he was at school, they his house had a local company and they had a swimming meet. And they wanted volunteers to swim. And they sent a note home with Sam saying, can he swim? Does he understand what swimming is?
00:38:59
Speaker
And Mark, he's been swimming since he's been three or four. And he was one of the best swimmers in the school. And they just totally overlooked him. And probably overlooked him because he wasn't a great footballer. You know, he wasn't a gobby kid, that sort of stuff, you know, so he wasn't shy, but he just wasn't necessarily seen in that light, for example. So talent spotting, coaching, the other big one that I,
00:39:28
Speaker
The other big one that I'm really concerned about that I'm chasing now is in the triathlon world, the World Triathlon Council, and I use the word discriminate and I'll use it because it's the only way I can see it. They will not allow athletes with intellectual disabilities to participate in the Paris.
00:39:53
Speaker
because he hasn't lived to disability. It's only allowed for athletes with physical disabilities to go to the Paralympics. Then Sam can't do Special Olympics because his IQ is greater than 75. Yeah, so he's in this world where he's just got to compete against neurotypical athletes. So when he goes out in a race, you know,
00:40:22
Speaker
And then the reason he's doing distance races as well is because if you're doing sprint or Olympic distance triathlon, it's tactical. It's always fast. Everything's fast. The transition's fast. It's just quick, quick, quick. Where at least in Ironman, he has time because you can catch up on the road or catch up on the bike. So you might lose 30 seconds a minute in the transition.
00:40:50
Speaker
He can make it up. But if you lose a minute in an Olympic or sprint distance, you can forget about it. You're not going to place well. And that's one of the reasons we're having him doing longer distance as well, rather than the other. So it's not necessarily set up for, Sam's not set up for the tactical type of race. You know, more tactical, you just need, you can just go out there and do his job. I think I always compare it to, is it,
00:41:18
Speaker
Borg, I think, Bjorn Borg's dad said to him when he was training him, you know, tennis, just hit the ball over the net as far as hard as you can. And as far away from the guy in front of you, it was that simple. Yeah, it wasn't, you know, another this, you know, that's all Borg, that's all he did. And that's what I tried to do to simplify it. So you talked about barriers, Olympics, the coaching,
00:41:45
Speaker
Schools, you know, I suppose the other one is identifying talent. Yeah. So I think there are lots of people like Sam out there, lots of athletes like Sam. And I'm not saying they're true athletes or runners. They could be doing anything, you know, from, you know, I don't know, wheelchair, volleyball, bokeh, anything like that.
00:42:10
Speaker
But they're not really a talent. And I think the other thing is, which I'll raise, I'll do is that if you look at triathlon, aside from Sam's autism, there's hardly anybody who looks like him. Now, Sam doesn't care about that. He just gets on. But for me, I'm trying to make the sport more inclusive and more diverse. And that's not just about, you know, black kids. I'm talking about kids from poorer backgrounds as well, you know, to get involved in the sport.
00:42:39
Speaker
especially endurance sports, swimming and all of these sports. So that's something I'm doing in the background with a mate of mine to create that. We're trying to set it up with ambitions about autism to get more people with autism into sport. That's one of the reasons they made him an ambassador. And he described the journey that you've been
Impact of triathlons on social skills and independence
00:42:59
Speaker
you've been through over the years. Has Sam's recent success with triathlon impacted his skills away from sport, so social for example? The big answer is yes. I can't
00:43:16
Speaker
Maybe the big word is confidence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You said, because for all the listeners, we prepared this by having a phone call last week so we could meet each other properly. And you said to me that 12 months ago, perhaps Sam might not have been able to do an interview like this. Yeah.
00:43:42
Speaker
I probably like judo said to Sam, come on, interview, off you go. And, you know, we just dive right in. And I think the first six months, maybe even longer, even recently, I'm sitting here just waiting to jump in and help him and answer his questions for him. And I'm having to learn to sit back a lot more and let him get on with it. And it's just that the confidence, the ability to
00:44:13
Speaker
to interact with people. It's simple things. Before sport, to get Sam to go into Costa Coffee and order his own tea and coffee wasn't the easiest thing in the world to do. And now he goes in and does that. He goes to Kingston and he goes to the restaurant on his own, has a pizza, orders a pizza and so on. And it's that independence it's given him as well. Going to the gym,
00:44:43
Speaker
you know, Sam just packs his bag, gets on the bus, goes to the gym, checks in, comes back, puts all this stuff away. And he's better than me. I always leave my goggles or something behind. He's never left anything, yeah? Because it's, it's, it's routine, repetitive, and so on. So stuff like that has been for us quite big. Like, you know, go and get the bus, go and do it on your own, find your own way back. You never get, he doesn't, he's not gonna get lost.
00:45:11
Speaker
But I think everything works when everything is working. It's when things are not working that it becomes interesting. And I think, what's the best story about that? I think he was going to university and the trains were canceled. He's never been late for lecture. Mark you, yeah? So he gets the 922 train, is it? Yeah, it is. 922. Train's canceled.
00:45:37
Speaker
And he thinks, my God, I'm gonna miss my 10 o'clock lecture. Now you think, what would we do? So how does he problem solve? So he thinks, right, I'm gonna get a couple of buses. Sam runs to uni. Yeah, four miles away with his backpack on. And the lecturer says to him, Sam, we know the trains are down. It doesn't matter if you're late, but he doesn't like being late.
00:46:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a DNF for him. So he ran, he ran to uni with his backpack on. And that's how I'm in a nutshell, I think, actually. Well, I've loved chatting to you both. There's so much, I often say that this, when I speak about my son, he's non-verbal, and I say, I learn more of him than I do any other person on this planet, every day, you know, to live your life, and he can't speak.
00:46:32
Speaker
and the things that you've told us there. Just the story of patience and persistence and resilience. So sitting at judo for four weeks before he actually joined in and then the focus and the determination and the will to compete.
00:46:53
Speaker
Finding that spark, that one thing that works, everything you're describing applies to everybody, but not everybody will apply themselves and dedicate themselves or take the time. There's so much that people with additional needs
00:47:09
Speaker
can give to society and it's great that you're championing that. And Sam, it's amazing that you're an ambassador now and that you are going to inspire more people, I'm sure, to take part in sports. It's really brilliant what you're doing, mate. Yeah, I am, definitely.
00:47:31
Speaker
Thanks very much for coming on and chatting to me on the podcast. I really look forward to following, following your racing and over this year and following your journey. Where can, where can everybody follow you on, on social media and can people, what's your handle? So people can find. It's handle on Instagram is at Sam Hollis try. One word. Yeah. And his website is samhollis.com. One word. Yeah.
00:48:00
Speaker
We'll share that in the podcast notes as well, so people can follow you. Thanks so much. Andrew, look, what you've just said, and I didn't say it there, but I'll tell you, you can put it in if you want to, but I think for me, my blessing is that I've got to know Sam as a man at 28.
00:48:21
Speaker
which if he'd left home and got married and had children or whatever, I wouldn't have had this experience with him. And as a dad that I can't put money on that right now. You know, the times you want to get out of the house or whatever, I got kicked out home at 17. Yeah. Like a lot of people did at that time, but I have had a chance to get to know him. And that's the, that's what he's done for me basically. Yeah. So that's, that's, that's, that's Justin saying about your, your, your boy as well. Yeah.
00:48:50
Speaker
I just, I understand entirely. Big thank you from me to Tony and Sam for coming on and chatting to us. And do give Sam a follow on his Instagram channel at Sam Wholeness Tri. Wholeness is double S T R I Sam Wholeness Tri. Thank you very much for listening and we'll see you on the next podcast.