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The Polish Female Vampire Discovery & The True Story of the Phantom of the Opera
21 Plays2 years ago
This week we’re going Gothic with 2 classic monsters universally known and the true tales behind their masks!
First, Lauren uncovers a case centering around recent discovery of alleged remains of a female "vampire" in the Polish village of Pień. In September 2022, archaeologists unearthed a skeleton dating to the 17th-century that featured some strange burial rituals, including a sickle across its neck and a padlock on its toe. The skull also has a large protruding fang-like tooth! Lauren also explores the 17th & 18th-Century Vampire Controversy in which real life superstition surrounding vampires ran rampant in Eastern Europe, leading to countless deaths and odd burials much like our own Salem Witch Trials stateside.
Next, Felicia tells the true story behind the Phantom of the Opera and all of the true life details that inspired French author Gaston Leroux to write his classic novel first published in 1910. Which of course went on to inspire everything from the Universal Monsters movie from 1925 starring Lon Chaney to Andrew Lloyd Webber’s Broadway smash hit musical. And with the musical finally closing after its epic 35 year run, it feels only fitting to finally learn more about the real history behind the page, the stage, and the screen! In fact, the real life tragedy that took place in an actual Parisian theatre might be even more upsetting than the masked Phantom's tragic tale…
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Transcript
Introductions and Spooky Interests
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome to the Sinister Sisters Podcast. I'm Lauren. I'm Felicia. We're best friends. And we like spooky stuff.
Lauren's Health and Movie Recommendation
00:00:21
Speaker
Yes, we do. And I'm sick. She's out with it right off the bat. Yeah.
00:00:29
Speaker
a podcast recently, so I just started to do a job as a teacher. And I listened to this podcast and I was like, things that they don't tell you as a first year teacher. And one was like, you're going to get sick immediately due to all the germs of the children. And literally I was with the children for two days and immediately got sick. And I was like, oh no. That feels right. Yeah. I'm almost done with it. And now you're going to have such a good immune system after like a couple of weeks, right? Absolutely. Yeah. I'll be unstoppable.
00:00:59
Speaker
I love it. Well, I was just telling Felicia before this that
00:01:02
Speaker
My recommendation this week is barbarian. I won't say too much. It's really good. Lots of twists and turns. I didn't even really realize who the cast is, so I would recommend not even looking up the cast ahead of time because there are some nice little moments that you'll be like, oh, you're in this? Oh, you're in this? That'll be fun, but it's really intense and
00:01:32
Speaker
unsettling and I can't wait for people to see it so that I can talk to more people about it. It really came out of nowhere like I had never I didn't see a trailer I heard nothing about it and then all of a sudden it was in theaters and everybody was like this is a this is a hit.
00:01:45
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I feel like more and more that's happening to me with movies where I feel like I'm not. I don't know. It feels like some are out of nowhere. They'd be more just not clued in. I don't know. I really felt like Barbarian came out of nowhere. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Felicia on 'House of Hammer' and Personal Updates
00:02:00
Speaker
On the opposite end, my other recommendation, that is like a half recommendation because
00:02:05
Speaker
We started it and I was so into it is the new army hammer documentary. It's called the house of hammer. No. Yes. See that's confusing because I would think that was about hammer horror movies. Right? But okay, that's fine. It's fine. I know. It's on discovery plus so you'll have to do a free trial and watch it. Is it worth it?
00:02:29
Speaker
So the start of it is really good because it's much more focused on like the women that he sent crazy messages to. But it's about his like entire family and how it kind of like trickled down because he's from like a
00:02:45
Speaker
you know, fancy, like a Hollywood family. Yeah. I actually don't know if it's like, I guess it is kind of Hollywood. It's sort of just like big money, big money family. Yeah. Interesting. So there's like a lot of abuse that like, you know, abused person abuses person abused person abuses person kind of trickle down. Absolutely. Not making an excuse for him. But it's just interesting how far back all of the craziness kind of goes and his family.
00:03:13
Speaker
Okay. Well, you sold me because I've been very, I'm definitely interested in it because obviously I've only seen the headlines of the army hammer stuff. And so I would be curious to, yeah, just to hear a deeper dive about, about all of it. And it is one of those things too, where I'm like, he put this all in writing, like people like that. I'm like, you are insane. You just feel untouchable. Yeah. It's just, it's the privilege. It's the entitlement. Nothing can touch you. Nothing can hurt you.
00:03:41
Speaker
because you have money. So yeah, interesting. For recommendations for me, I feel like I have nothing because I've been just starting my new job, but I did finish the newest season of MasterChef, which was just wonderful, really enjoyable, big surprise on who won, but I'm very happy for them. And then I have also as my like, and I've said this probably before, but like the show that I watch over
00:04:12
Speaker
breakfast and sometimes like in the evening. I've been watching early seasons of Law and Order SVU. Why? I don't know. I've seen them. I love it. But I like them. I don't know. For some reason, for me, it's kind of like I know it's like all the most horrible things that could happen to someone. But for some reason, it's just like calming background noise for me to like exist in. So I don't know why that is. But I don't want to dive too deep into that right now.
00:04:40
Speaker
I love that. I mean, you know, whatever is calming to you. You got a new set. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But
Vampire Folklore and Historical Practices
00:04:48
Speaker
that's it for me. I will try to think of somewhere for the next time we try to actually watch some other movies. I love it. Amazing. Well, I'm going to do a recent news story this whole. I know I'm going to tie it into like some further history going back.
00:05:05
Speaker
But basically on September 2nd this year, the remains of what we think could be a female vampire were found in a village in Poland.
00:05:19
Speaker
So, you know, it's going to be closer to, you know, Salem witch trial kind of thing where probably not a vampire, but someone that they believe to be a vampire at that time. So it was discovered during, you know, archaeological work at this 17th century cemetery in the village of Pien in Poland. I do just have to shout out because I know so many of them listen.
00:05:46
Speaker
The family that always listens is my Polish side, so this is a real treat for them, I hope. This is for you. This is for all of the Kowalcs, the short answer Kowals. So this skeleton that they found had a sickle across her throat, seemingly preventing her from returning from the dead or sitting up.
00:06:10
Speaker
She also had a toe that was padlocked. So these tactics were supposed to keep them dead and staying dead. And the researchers also found a silk cap on her head that had silver and gold thread. So definitely shows that she's from a higher social status, which I think is interesting as far as if we're using kind of the same
00:06:37
Speaker
most likely it was an outsider or, and I'll get into this a little bit more later, but the fact that she was a higher social status I think is interesting that they thought she was a vampire. Yeah. Wait, I'm sorry. Can I ask a stupid question? I just misheard you. Did you say a toe padlock? Yes. Her toe was padlocked.
00:07:00
Speaker
Why? Is that a thing? To keep her from standing up? Oh my God. I guess. I've never heard of that. That's just fascinating. I wonder. There's got to be a picture that we can put on Instagram. I hope so. I've never heard of that.
00:07:15
Speaker
That's wild. Sorry, keep going. I just had to, I mean, that's just, I've never heard that. A padlocked toe. I mean, that feels like it would also really hurt if it was- Yeah, oh my God, terrible. That sounds like something out of scary stories to tell in the dark or something. Yes, yes. There's definitely, isn't there a lost toe story? Yeah, the big toe thing. I love it.
00:07:36
Speaker
Oh, I will say though, you'll see on her skeleton very clearly as well. I did not know how clear until I looked at the picture, but she did have a very significant protruding tooth in the front. Yes. Just one. Maybe. Yes. Not two fangs, just one big tooth. So perhaps that is why they thought she was- Why am I laughing? I haven't seen the picture, so to me, this now sounds like a Looney Tunes. But-
00:08:07
Speaker
That was so funny. It is kind of funny when you see the picture, so I think that's the right reaction. I mean, I feel terrible for her. I also feel confused about teeth now. I'm like that a 17th century skeleton was buried and still has full set of teeth is kind of shocking. Wow. Yeah. My teeth is bone, right?
00:08:29
Speaker
Yeah, but still. The rest of her skeleton's like a little decayed. I'm like, man, she brushed those teeth at least. Really? That one big tooth. Sorry. Okay. Back to business.
00:08:45
Speaker
So the team leader of this day was professor, I'm gonna butcher this name, Professor Darius Polinski from Nicholas Copernicus University. And he said that this form of burial was very rare and unusual.
00:09:00
Speaker
And so they're planning to continue this archaeological work and research at this cemetery. They're also going to do DNA testing on the remains to see if they can kind of learn more about this dead woman, which is very exciting. So I'll try to keep you guys posted on those developments as well.
00:09:21
Speaker
I will say this isn't the first discovery of remains like this. I mean, obviously, as I said, there was this kind of vampire epidemic that took place throughout Poland in the 17th century. And so there were other archaeological kind of findings, I guess. I don't know if that's how you say that.
00:09:41
Speaker
In 2014, there was a group from the University of South Alabama who found six very similar vampire skeletons, very much like this. And this was in a slightly different village of Poland. It was about 130 miles from where this female vampire was found in Pian.
00:10:03
Speaker
So all of these vampire skeletons also had either sickles placed across their neck or body, or they had large rocks stacked under their chin, which also seems kind of crazy. Like they ran out of sickles and then they just had to put these big rocks on them. Just also not a great way to go. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. That is like a thing. I remember it's like not being stoned, but stones just being laid on you. I know.
00:10:32
Speaker
torture, inquisition, et cetera, et cetera thing. I don't know. Sad. I know. Really just awful. But in that cemetery where they found those six skeletons, all of the other bodies were perfectly normal. So their initial thought back then was that the people could have been from outside the region. Maybe there were foreigners who came to town and they thought,
00:10:57
Speaker
you know, they were assumed they were vampires because they were different. But those researchers in 2014, extracted the tooth enamel of these skeletons to see like what their diet was. And turns out they were likely from the same area. So not outsiders, but you're gonna say and turns out their diet was blood.
00:11:22
Speaker
I wish I wish it was like actually I don't know maybe I don't wish that vampires were real but yeah I hear that but they do kind of like as more bodies were being found or as this was a kind of being thought about they do think that possibly these victims could have been suffering from cholera and
00:11:44
Speaker
Oh, yes, classic. Yeah, exactly. Basically just a disease that spread in the 17th century that people didn't really know what it was. And so it could kill you pretty quickly. It's basically just drinking contaminated water, but without treatment, it could happen. I think I read it was like within seven days you could die. So just like Samara. Wow.
00:12:10
Speaker
But it's very fast. So it's like you just drank water and then drop dead. So obviously people were not knowing the science behind any of it. We're just trying to explain why this could have happened. And so vampires were used in that way or thought of in that way.
00:12:33
Speaker
So back then, I will say that vampires were considered very real, and even scientists and doctors thought of it as a medical disorder. So there's a lot of books that were written back in the 1670s. There were all of these Latin books about grave eating, where the undead were dug up to find that they had either been eating their own shrouds,
00:12:58
Speaker
which is just like death clothes or that they had been feasting on their own limbs and bowels, which is disgusting. That's horrible. So I don't know if that's, you know, I have a feeling that's probably like,
00:13:13
Speaker
mental illness leading to being buried alive, leading to all of these things, but there hasn't been a ton of findings there. There are also sightings of vampires that were reported in journals in Poland and Russia in the 1690s. They're pretty intense. They basically talk about these creatures that suck the blood out of humans and animals
00:13:38
Speaker
and then engorged, blood would flow from their eyeballs, pores, and other orifices, which I feel like we don't see a ton ton in our movie content of vampires, where once they're full of blood, bleeding from their eyes seems so scary.
00:13:59
Speaker
It's a great image, but it's horrifying. Right? I know. I'm like, I can't believe they haven't done that more. But once dug up, their coffins were said to have been swimming in gore. And then even as a protection against these creatures, this is really gross, local people advised making bread from this very blood to protect themselves from contracting vampirism. No, don't do it.
00:14:27
Speaker
So I'm like, basically, they were becoming vampires by thinking that they were real. And protecting them. It's like trying to protect themselves. They decided to drink blood. Yes. No, but worse, just make it into bread. Ew. Make it into bread, blood. Wait, that's amazing. This is incredible.
00:14:47
Speaker
So I don't have too much more facts after that. I did think it was interesting. They said, you know, sometimes corpses were burned, smashed with stones, placed face down to bite into the ground, which I also thought was weird. Like they made them like, I guess just buried them face down so that they couldn't like bite their way out or had their heads and legs cut off, which is also just brutal, brutal.
00:15:17
Speaker
corpses have been found with metal rods or stakes hammered through their skulls to ensure that they stayed dead. But honestly, reading about all of it and, you know, you should do your own research. There's a lot of like vampire history. And I was a little sad because there's not a ton specific to Poland. So it was like once I was like, okay, there's not a lot of Poland research. I didn't want to go too far into like the history of vampires.
00:15:42
Speaker
But it does feel very much like the witch trials and kind of, you know, these people that were either kind of social pariahs or sick with disease and people couldn't really explain it. And so they're, you know, were just assumed to be this like,
00:15:59
Speaker
terrifying creature even though it really wasn't you know it wasn't that situation they were just either and also like mental illness I have a feeling was a big part and people being buried alive obviously it was like a huge issue didn't have the science to like truly determine if someone was dead I feel like so all of that kind of lumping together to making these
00:16:23
Speaker
you know, what they thought to be vampires, which probably weren't. But I think it's super interesting that they're still discovering these skeletons that were buried in all these crazy ways. Yeah, absolutely. Very interesting. And now we know about tow padlocks. Yeah, I was getting ready to say this is one of my favorite stories you've done because all the imagery was so good. You had the big front tooth, the tow padlock, the blood bread, the face down eating the dirt.
00:16:54
Speaker
I mean, you really had it all. It's really a marketing, you know, buzzwords in there. Seriously. But that was that was good. And we've actually had a request, I know, from one of our listeners named Martin, who wanted us to do like a deeper dive on like Nordic or like European vampires. And so I feel like you kind of just you just gave some of that. Yeah, a little bit. I know there's a lot out there. So I feel like it's different from region to region and like
00:17:23
Speaker
you know, people talk about tuberculosis being another thing that was like a big, you know, big people thinking it was vampires. So there's a lot more out there and we can definitely, you know, keep covering other versions of this or more too. For sure. All right.
Phantom of the Opera: Origins and Inspirations
00:17:51
Speaker
Shall I dive in?
00:17:53
Speaker
dive in i'm ready today's today's topic has inspired by a musical i love it phantom of the opera so here we go i literally just randomly googled is there a true story behind phantom of the opera
00:18:17
Speaker
Because I was curious. I was curious. Yeah, I'm very curious. Yeah. So let's do overview first. So if we had to have the opera, the main way that you probably know it is either the film or the musical. So the musical is from the 80s 1986.
00:18:35
Speaker
music by Andrew Lloyd Webber, lyrics by Charles Hart and libretto by Webber and Richard Stillgo. And it is based on a novel of the same name. It's a French novel from 1910 by Gaston Leroux. And we'll talk a little bit about him and I'm at it. But so the musical and the movie and the book basically all follow
00:19:00
Speaker
a masked phantom that is living in a labyrinth beneath the Paris Opera House. And he becomes obsessed and in love with a beautiful soprano named Christine. Just amazing. It's just beautiful. It's just beautiful. Who played her in the movie? It's the Disney. Yes, Emmy Rossum. Yes, yes.
00:19:23
Speaker
Then I think the original Broadway cast was Sarah Brightman. Yeah, your fave. My fave also from Repo the genetic opera. So I mean, there's a lot of connections here. So I am going to go into some of the true story for Phantom of the Opera. But now I feel like there's just there's a lot about this topic that I got very excited about. So in addition to the musical that I am a fan of,
00:19:47
Speaker
Gaston Leroux, I actually did some research on him a few months ago when I was looking into horror theater. And he was a big patron and fan of the Grand Gagnol Theatre in Paris. And I don't think I've done an episode on that. But I think I will either next week or the or the week after, because it's it's just amazing. It's like very early special effects techniques.
00:20:15
Speaker
live horror on stage. It's just awesome. But he was a fan of that and was inspired by that and some of the events I'm about to talk about to write fans about the opera in 1910, which by the way, wasn't actually very successful as a book. But then it got turned into the 1925 film starring Lon Chaney. And then it was very popular. And then of course, the 80s musical. And now it's you know, just part of our
00:20:44
Speaker
part of our hearts. So what parts of this of the opera actually have a little bit of truth to them. So the Paris Opera House is called the Palais Garnier. And it is just, I mean, just as stunning as you would imagine a gorgeous Paris Opera House to be. It's a huge, huge staple in France.
00:21:11
Speaker
It was built for House of Paris Opera for Napoleon III. It's extremely ornate, all the art in there. It's just, it's beautiful. And just like the book, movie and musical, there was a tragedy there involving a chandelier.
00:21:36
Speaker
So if you don't know, in the musical The Phantom of the Opera, there is a part where the chandelier kind of not fully falls, but kind of drops down a little bit from the ceiling in a big scare tactic way to distract us from the Phantom kidnapping Christine.
00:21:56
Speaker
It's so good. So good. It's it's it's immersive theater in the 80s. It's very exciting. It really is. Yeah, it's amazing. And so this actually did happen. So in, let's see, 1896. So the actual chandelier in the opera house didn't fall. But
00:22:25
Speaker
So on May 20th, 1896, there was an incident at the upper house where not the chandelier, that the whole chandelier didn't fall, but the counterweights fell out of the ceiling and crashed down onto a spectator, killed them,
00:22:44
Speaker
and injured a bunch of other people. Oh my god. Killed someone? It did. It killed somebody. It's very bad. It's very bad. And this happened during a performance of an opera that is mostly forgotten, but it's called Hell. But it's H-E-L-L-E. So I'm not sure what that translates to. Let me see if I can book it up for you really quickly. Helly. Helly.
00:23:14
Speaker
Oh, it's grace. Oh, sorry. It's actually based on the Greek myth of Ellie, which I don't know that either. But I was hoping it was it was an opera about hell. Me too. And then they sent that person straight there. That was kind of what I was hoping for. But unfortunately for us, it's it's not really true.
00:23:36
Speaker
But yeah, so the chandelier and the bronze reflector, I'll post a picture behind it, were supported on the ceiling by a bunch of counterweights, like slightly above the ceiling. And somehow something broke and boom, right in the middle performance came down, killed one person who this was very sad. So the woman's name was Madame Chomet. And
00:24:00
Speaker
she, they didn't even realize that she was dead because it like, it hit her and everyone fled. And then they and then a girl said, Hey, my mom is missing. I can't find my mom. And then they go back in and they found her body underneath this thing. And she was dead when they got there.
00:24:20
Speaker
That is horrifying. It is horrifying. I'm sure there was like a lot of chaos when it happened of people just running out and like, you know, I'm sure it was very, very chaotic. And I think it also did like start like a small fire like it didn't burn down the place or anything. But I'm sure there was a lot of chaos. But still, like, dang, so sad. It's really dark.
00:24:42
Speaker
Yeah, so that's the first part. So that's like the big, you know, imagery of Phantom of the Opera, the giant chandelier falling. But also underneath the Paris Opera House are some things that are included in Phantom of the Opera. So there actually is a lake of sorts underneath the Opera House. So this is very strange.
00:25:04
Speaker
So there is a water tank down there that was that was built because when they were digging out to build the opera house, there was all this groundwater that they couldn't get rid of. So they were trying to get rid of it so they could lay down the structure. And for some reason, all this water kept flooding in. So what they decided to do instead of trying to fight it more is actually build like a well system that could take in the water.
00:25:30
Speaker
This literally is Phantom of the Opera. Yeah, so I'll post pictures of this as well. But so there there is this actual lake underneath that is and in addition to the lake, there are tunnels built underneath the Paris Opera House.
00:25:45
Speaker
just like in the book and the musical. And it looks, I mean, it's not as, there's not as much fog, I guess. It's not as romantic. Yeah, there's not as many high E's. Handles? Yes. But it still is like very spooky looking. But one weird thing about this lake is so they actually use it. So first of all, apparently there is a, I don't know, this is just in some articles that there is one catfish that lives in the lake.
00:26:18
Speaker
I don't know why. I don't know why they would not take that thing out. But also firefighters use this lake to practice swimming in their gear for like
00:26:29
Speaker
drills, which I thought was very strange, but kind of nice. Yeah, why there? I don't know. I don't know. Nowhere else. No pools available. There's no pools in Paris. There's only the lake under the Paris Opera House. Why? I don't know. The question is if there's that creepy Christine doll. Does she live down there? Oh, you know, I haven't found that, but just for the sake of this conversation, yes, it's done. She does.
00:26:58
Speaker
Yeah, so and then, in addition, so the the main character of Phantom of the Opera is Eric, who is a disfigured man. It describes as in the book is described as being almost like a skeleton, like having no nose, very tights, yellow skin,
00:27:19
Speaker
against the bone where it almost looks like a skeleton. And the law of Cheney fits with the opera image is kind of the closest to what the book has. Yeah, he looks real similar to that. Yes, exactly like that. And then the musical we have a more romanticized version of it so we can have this kind of like romantic story between or this romantic triangle really of the Phantom Christine and Raoul and the Phantom like
00:27:47
Speaker
has a little bit of sex appeal to him. So it's just like half of his space is actually like bird, I think in the musical it is. Is that right? I think so too. Something like that. Yeah, he's like afraid of fire, right? Yeah, he's afraid of fire. Exactly. I don't know though. There's that whole like flashback to him being like a little like kid in the circus or the sideshow. Oh, yes. I can't remember. Yeah, yeah. So I think and I'm not, I'm honestly not sure how much of this is the book versus
00:28:16
Speaker
movie versus musical versus whatever. But yeah, I think the story of Eric is that he was so deformed that his his parents abandoned him at age eight, and a traveling circus picked him up.
00:28:29
Speaker
He was with them for some years, and then he escaped to somewhere in Prussia, and then learned how to be an architect. And then there eventually found himself in the Paris Opera House. Is there more? I can't remember. That's most of the backstory. Honestly, how little we have accomplished when that man had everything against him, and he really... What have I done? He really is 11 large. I know. I know.
00:28:59
Speaker
Why haven't I joined the circus yet? You should. I should. Honestly, I would be down. Okay, so the last thing I'll say about about this is that there were some random bodies on earth. So that the the story about Eric, the the phantom isn't really necessarily true. Sure, they tell the story because of the book and stuff. And people say like, Oh, maybe we saw the phantom while we were at the
00:29:25
Speaker
opera house, there's not really a great story that goes along with that. But so let's see, in 1907, they were trying to bury a time capsule with 24 phonographic recordings of opera singers of the time, burying it in a cellar in the opera house.
00:29:47
Speaker
And then so LaRoe Gaston LaRoe, the writer for the opera, he says that the body of a disfigured architect named Eric was found during that process. That's not true. But what is true is that they did find random bodies there. And this I mean, Paris is really old. So I feel like this happens a lot more in Europe, where just bodies are buried under cities. And we also we had that in New York too. And we're not even that old of a country.
00:30:16
Speaker
So I don't think it's so crazy, but they were finding random bodies as they were trying to bury this time capsule. So
00:30:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's yeah, that's really it. I I wanted the story of the actual Phantom himself to be true. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Becca Staun, LaRoe did pull a lot of inspiration from the actual Paris Opera House. And I think he was greatly inspired by the grand gong y'all horror theater that was happening in Paris at the time. And so I'll try to cover that another week because it's it's very interesting. And that's that's it.
00:30:55
Speaker
I just have one question for you, Lauren. Are you a fan of Phantom of the Opera, the musical? I am. I really am. I feel like I was really into the movie because it hit right when we were in middle school or something, or elementary school. I don't know if I've actually seen the movie, which I know is sad. Really? Oh, you should see it. It's actually a pretty good movie musical. Yeah, I'll watch now.
00:31:22
Speaker
Patrick Wilson and Emmy Rossum and Gerard Butler. I mean, it's a great cast. I feel like people who loved the musical were not super sold on the movie, but I didn't really have a reference for the musical, so I liked it a lot. I don't know. I liked the music. Do you like it?
00:31:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I saw the first time I actually saw it was I saw a high school production of it, which is hilarious. Oh, my God. How'd they even do it? I don't know. Probably. Poorly. I mean, I thought it was good. And then I saw the Broadway one. And yeah, I don't know. I like it. I like it. It's creepy. It's romantic.
00:32:07
Speaker
That's what I think I like. It feels so like old Broadway drama. It's fun. Yes. Big costumes, the whole thing. Yeah. But thank you all so much for listening. I appreciate you. And we hope you have some sweet, sweet nightmares. Bye.