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S2 Ep155: Monster Hunter: Rise
81 Plays5 years ago
Join Dave, Jake, and special guest Justin as they sharpen their weapons, pop some demon drug, and try not to cart in this week's episode!
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Thoughts? Comments? Requests for new episodes? Feel free to email them in!
SoapstonePodcast@gmail.com
Like our podcast? Like our podcast! We'll post when new episodes are uploaded!
https://www.facebook.com/SoapstonePodcast/
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Transcript
Introduction and Technical Difficulties
00:00:46
Speaker
Hey, that looks like a progress bar. Natural intro, beautiful, love it. This is the future. This is what the kids want. Justin has a face that I'm thinking of. Are we going off of this or is it a? Yeah. And then we go. No, we don't we don't clap around here. How's it going, everyone? Welcome to another episode of Soapstone. My name is Jake. I'm joined by my co-host is always Dave.
00:01:16
Speaker
And Justin, because you've already heard him at this point. Fucking ruins.
Weather and Microphone Banter
00:01:22
Speaker
How's it going tonight, Justin? It's going all right. I won't steal Dave's headwind with the weather, but it's pretty nice inside.
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah, bro. I'm a little bit behind on the headwind, if you know what I'm saying. I don't know what that means. I really don't know what you're saying. I was like, I'm sure this is a drug term. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, are we all doing good? Yeah, I know. We've had some technical issues starting up this time around, and then we've been a little bit giggly and dumb beforehand, so I hope that carries over.
00:02:03
Speaker
Most of us are sober, I think. All of us? Yeah. At least 33 percent of us. I haven't touched alcohol since I was last at Justin's house. I had Sake two nights ago. But Dave, you guys are recording with the same microphone. I know.
Podcast Focus: Video Games Discussion
00:02:22
Speaker
Anyways, this is a podcast where we talk about video games. Sometimes we have guests on. That's me. That's this is one of those times.
00:02:33
Speaker
It's not always the best. It's usually pretty good though. The main thing is just content, right? Like people help us with content more than anything. So thanks for showing up, Justin. Hey, no problem.
Introducing Monster Hunter Rise
00:02:54
Speaker
I'm here to wax poetic about a video game that recently came out. That's good. Cause I'm not.
00:03:02
Speaker
All right. Justin, do you want to say what video game that is in case people can't read the fucking title? So I'd like to talk about Monster Hunter Rise. Pass next. What do you get? Next idea. You played anything else recently before? Near. We fall back on that. Near. Well, this is how do you like new near, right? The replicant. The remaster.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah, remaster, not remake, because it's the same game. It's the re-eplicant. Regastaltenen? Oh my gosh. Yeah, no wonder they didn't use that name for the second one. I'm glad they used a memorable series of numbers. It's the square root of 1.5.
00:03:51
Speaker
Huh. I'm sure that means something. I don't like it. This is a Kingdom Hearts thing. That's what this is. How far are you in it?
NieR: Replicant Time-Skip Discussion
00:04:00
Speaker
Because I think Jake has yet to pick it up. Is that correct? No, I haven't. I've played through as much as I'm going to play through, which means I've officially beaten the game. But where are you at now? I did the there is a time skip, a very anime time skip, and that's basically where I am.
00:04:19
Speaker
I know things that are going to happen because I did not expect to be able to actually play this game. So I had watched a video back after beating Automata, I believe.
Memory Retention in Games
00:04:33
Speaker
Gotcha. And I have my memory and Rachel is disappointed in that memory because she played the game and I remember more about it than she does. Yeah, you hate to see it.
00:04:47
Speaker
How do you guys feel about Monster Hunter,
Monster Hunter Rise: Graphics and Gameplay
00:04:49
Speaker
though? That's another game that came out recently. It's great. Cool. All right. Well, thank you, guys. If anyone has ideas for future episodes. Elaborating a bit off, great. I know that we've had an episode. This is me stretching my memory back. We've had an episode on Monster Hunter World. And by stretching my memory back, I mean, we literally talked about this before we started recording.
00:05:14
Speaker
And Monster Hunter World was the first Monster Hunter game that was playable. Not like to me, just in general. Yeah, I can understand that. So as someone who's coming from Monster Hunter World, how does Rise work? I mean, like the graphics are going to be worse. I mean, we're gamers. It is a different stylization. It is definitely...
00:05:40
Speaker
a more Japanese themed and also switch limitations like you're alluding to. But it definitely takes a lot of the game design improvements from World and simplifies some of them even further.
00:05:58
Speaker
not necessarily to the detriment, but there's definitely a lot of instances where Rachel and I found us kind of missing some of the attrition that we had to deal with in previous games. So I started with
00:06:19
Speaker
for you on the new 3DS. Rachel has played all of them. Oh my god. Good jeez. And so there's definitely things like, oh yeah, we had to use to do this, or we had extra options here that we no longer have, but they didn't really add anything to
Palamute and Movement Enhancements
00:06:44
Speaker
it.
00:06:44
Speaker
Um, right. But it is definitely the next generation from world. So it's taking a lot of the things that were improved and liked from world and then elaborating on them. Hmm.
00:06:59
Speaker
but let's not go into specifics. Well, we could jump around, right? I had a chance to play the demo with you guys when this shit came out because Rachel's like, do this. And she threw something at me, even though I don't live near you guys.
00:07:17
Speaker
But I think there were two bosses out. So there's like you go to the main hub and then there's like two missions you could do at the time. Yeah. And that was free to try on switch. So I did. But yeah, it felt very quick in comparison to world that felt a lot more weighted because you're zipping around on amount immediately, which you had to unlock in the world. And then there are other little things you can get for boost and then everything is felt very streamlined and quick.
00:07:47
Speaker
Do you unlock a mountain world? When you get the endemic life up to a certain point on each map and possibly complete a quest with the Palicos, you would then be able to call a mount. It basically moved at the same speed that you did, which is where it deviates a little bit here in Rise. But you could do things like sharpen wall on the move, and it would automatically pass. It was basically a taxi.
00:08:14
Speaker
So in Rise, we got a Palamute instead of a Palico.
00:08:19
Speaker
Right, this is a dog, presumably. Exactly. Palamut, I think. If I don't say it correctly, I will hear about it later. Tough homework. But you completely control the Palamut when you're on it. It even has a drift boost, kind of Mario Kart-like. So it is very quick at getting you from point A to point B.
Wirebugs and New Dynamics
00:08:48
Speaker
I personally don't actually use that. There's another movement mechanic that they introduced that I am a big fan of. Wave shine. Yeah, wave dashing. Yeah, wave dashing. So they introduced what they call wire bugs, which have a lot of combat, but also general movement things that they facilitate.
00:09:12
Speaker
And so basically, you're just zipping. It's it's how every game now has a has a. Slingshot like a. Yeah. Yeah. Are you talking like a grapple? Grapple is like the big one, which there was a form of that in world, and this is again kind of.
Evolution from World to Rise
00:09:31
Speaker
calling back to Monster Hunter Rise being a sixth-gen Monster Hunter game just elaborates on things that worked well in world. Right. Because Monster Hunter is basically the call of duty of the Monster Hunter series. Yeah. So typically... It's everything of the Monster Hunter series. The way that Capcom handles it, they typically have
00:09:58
Speaker
they have a main generation game, they have a spin-off game, and then they have an expansion. So we had 4U and then Generations
00:10:13
Speaker
was the spinoff game for the fourth generation. And then we had World and Iceborne were the fifth generation games. And now Rise is kind of that difference between a fifth gen and it's technically considered their sixth generation game. Hmm. I just realized you said Monster Hunter for you. Yes.
00:10:37
Speaker
That's it. Do you think from at least when you're playing around 4th generation, have you noticed the improvements between the generations?
Transition from 3DS to PS4
00:10:50
Speaker
Yes. I mean, the big generation change between 4 and World was... That was insane. I mean, graphically, because you're going from a 3DS to the PS4. But the big structural change was something that you guys brought up in your World discussion, which was the unified maps.
00:11:14
Speaker
There's no loading screens between the zones and stuff like that. And that does carry over into rise. So each of the maps you load into and they're. They're not as cluttered, but they feel a lot tighter than world's maps did. So roughly the amount of like collectible nodes and stuff feels roughly the same. They added a lot of.
00:11:45
Speaker
busy touches and filling out the aesthetics of the maps, I think. It actually took us a couple of hours to get comfortable in the maps to be able to piece out the things that we could interact with and the things that we couldn't.
00:12:02
Speaker
Oh, gotcha. It's got like a lot of clutter. Yeah, that's a weird feel. I I like seeing something, whether it's in animation, like that's going to move because like it's drawn differently. And I look for that same type of thing in video games. I'm like, oh, I definitely know I can like fuck around with this versus just like touching a wall randomly. And it's like, oh, that was a fake wall.
00:12:22
Speaker
And they do a good job calling out certain things. And like I said, now that you're used to what they are using to call that stuff out, it's easier to parse. But the first time you boot it up, part of that is likely because of the internal resolution of the switch. Because they added all of these details to things, they don't read as cleanly as they potentially could. Right. Even when.
00:12:50
Speaker
I was going to ask, are you using the upresed adapter? I saw people were talking about that. I am primarily playing docked, much to Rachel's detriment. I actually moved a television upstairs so we'd have two TVs in the living room again, even though we literally just got rid of the second television up there.
00:13:11
Speaker
Because I find playing in handheld mode, it's just hard to read. Some of the iconography is incredibly small, and I prefer playing with a specific controller
Weapon Changes and Preferences
00:13:22
Speaker
that I am very used to, versus the positioning of the controls on the Joy-Cons in handheld mode. I got used to being able to do certain things.
00:13:37
Speaker
actually played the world on a ps4 controller using claw grip which isn't very old school.
00:13:47
Speaker
the way of playing it when it was on the Vita, apparently. But it allows you to access items better. They fix that. I just never got used to the way that they fix that. So I actually, I kind of like dual mode item usage for certain things. Jesus. Gotcha. Gotcha. How do I play? Like, you
Item Management Complexities
00:14:09
Speaker
guys remember, I didn't really use item sets or anything like that. I'm like, run away, cycle through the D-pad. Like, where the fuck's my potion?
00:14:16
Speaker
grabs potion gets poison runs away tries to find antidote if I have one.
00:14:23
Speaker
I mean item, item management and monster hunters kind of like it's crazy by default. It's like a resident evil sort of specific design decision where it's just like, you're just not going to be able to hold all that much fat, but in monster hunter, it's like, you're going to have to cycle through everything until you use those radial menus. It's kind of an interesting design decision in a way, because like, because
00:14:50
Speaker
I feel like I should qualify that. Like usually when games are trying to tailor across like all audiences, they're like, we'll just make it so if something is accomplished, you can accomplish something as an advanced player, make it so like if you can easily do something as an advanced player, make it so less advanced players can also do it kind of easily. And by that, I mean like,
Learning Curve in Monster Hunter
00:15:16
Speaker
In this example, like if you start playing monster hunter, you're going to cycle through all your items, right? But an advanced player can just be like, Oh, I'm going to like flick the radial menu and like drop a trap like instantly or like post a sticker, you know, important stuff. Very important poses next to monster about to be trends. Yeah. Um, and it's kind of,
00:15:40
Speaker
That's Monster Hunter-esque that they don't call out, here is the very efficient way that you will end up doing this, as opposed to the flick through all of your items rapidly. Monster Hunter encourages customization in a lot of its systems, but it also avoids removing systems that
00:16:03
Speaker
are less optimized. And you can mix and match them, which is how I'm doing it. So I use the radial menu for about four specific items, things that basically hit a certain priority where it's like, I want to be able to access this without having to thumb through that menu.
00:16:22
Speaker
Because they left the old menu system there, I will be doing one of those while also shifting my other item menu to find a limited use item that I might want to be able to shortcut shortly on. So that's where my traps go, my tranks, and my single use buffs.
00:16:42
Speaker
And then there's actually a third support menu now that is where my pet actions go. So I'm able to basically set all of those up as like the first couple of minutes on a hunt and be good to go.
00:16:58
Speaker
To me it sounds like you're Dark Souls speedrunning at this point, more than anything. So I am at 100 hours in Rise. I have red checkmarked all of the Village and Hub quests, which we will get into.
00:17:13
Speaker
Um, not if I have my way. Um, so I have, I have put enough time in this that I understand the rise systems. And honestly, I feel if I tried to go back to world at this point, I would have some difficulties, um, because of mechanical and structural changes that they made. Um.
00:17:35
Speaker
So one of the things that I actually like that they brought back from older Monster Hunters is they separated out the quests.
Quest System and Scaling
00:17:44
Speaker
So in all Monster Hunters previous to world, there was basically what was called a village or
00:17:52
Speaker
Single player story and then there is the hub quests and basically the village quests were a glorified tutorial Which is basically kind of how low rank and world worked But you can never do village quests in co-op right hub quests have low rank and high rank and are always considered co-op
00:18:19
Speaker
In previous games, that was a detriment because all of the monsters had fixed HP. They did not scale to the enemies. Okay, they didn't scale. So the hub quests were just always harder. You always wanted to try and get multiplayer for them. Gotcha. In the hub quest for Rise, they do scale. They are balanced to be harder even when you are solo. So you fight a Kulu-Yaku in village low rank versus a hub low rank.
00:18:48
Speaker
It's going to take longer to kill that hub, Kulu Yaku. Right. They kind of want to incentivize playing with people in that mode. Yeah. But you're not locked out of them. I remember trying to solo some of the high rank hub quests in 4U and possibly even G rank. And even when we had two players, they always balanced them around three players, three-ish. Yeah.
00:19:16
Speaker
So it was very hard if we weren't able to get like Rachel's brother involved in those hunts and stuff. It just ended up taking longer. So I do really appreciate the scaling and probably one of the reasons why I've gone through and completed all the quests at this point already is because of that.
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah, I can't imagine playing that game alone. Like I've definitely had to for some expeditions. I'm still Mad World, but I really enjoyed the multiplayer aspects of it because it's like sometimes I was bad with items. I wasn't the best at DPS. So it was nice to have other people to like round off my faults.
00:19:56
Speaker
With their strengths or I could just rotate. Oh I'm poison cool. I'm gonna go deal with that you swap in and take a little more focus in aggro Yeah, the main thing was literally just like getting a breather right like when we got to nergigante It was like
00:20:13
Speaker
Am I just going to get cut down repeatedly? Roll constantly. Because I don't know his moveset. Like if you're playing in multiplayer, you didn't have to have necessarily. You can be carried, is basically what I'm trying to say. But also just the monsters jump between people. Yeah. So it gives you breathing room. If you don't have the fastest reflexes for using consumables,
00:20:34
Speaker
you have more time if you're in multiplayer. One of the new skills they added in RISE is actually, I think it's called Diversion, and it's essentially a increased aggro skill. Right, you can tank. Yeah, well, it's not perfect. But there's also, so they changed the endemic life substantially. They got rid of the mantles. We should define that, I think. For people who haven't played once in a year.
Endemic Life Mechanics
00:21:02
Speaker
So endemic life was a concept introduced in world where there was basically creatures and you took a picture of them, you captured them and they would help you back at home. Basically another resource to gather. They repurposed endemic life for RISE. There are still some that are just
00:21:21
Speaker
cute things you capture and take pictures of. But for the most part, a lot of them are considered hunting helpers. So they take the role of things like the affinity booster, the cleanse booster and like the mantles from world. So you but you find them on the hunt, you don't bring them with you. So you have a limited inventory you can pick up, but learning the map is strongly encouraged because of them.
00:21:45
Speaker
Okay, so like you run through, you get buffs versus like bringing certain buffs like the spray or the mantle before engaging in your fights. Or if you need to like rezone. And I think that part of the Japanese theming comes through in this.
00:22:03
Speaker
Because they're all like cute creatures You get a bird that call that makes a really annoying call that other monsters want to attack So it'll pull monsters onto the map with you. So it's a reverse dung pod There is an anti Antidobra, it's a antidote Cobra that gives you like a buff icon that makes you immune to status ailments for a while But
00:22:31
Speaker
So yeah, basically they just use that as a more interesting theming, I think, for that. And yeah, you do have spirit birds, which are permanent buffs that you pick up during a hunt. So they don't drop off, but they basically replace some of the food buffs you would get in a world. So instead of eating for certain stats, they still have that eating mechanic.
00:23:00
Speaker
But you definitely do want to know how a map works. And if you're having difficulties with a hunt, finding those helpers can be the difference between a successful hunt and a triple cart.
00:23:13
Speaker
So is that in addition to having other things to like, let's say, do you still have antidote potions and you didn't find the antidote? Yes. OK. So you like that.
Aggressive Playstyle and Weapon Choices
00:23:25
Speaker
I said, do you like the new system more versus like eating and like bringing a mantle or a healing spray?
00:23:31
Speaker
uh the mantles so the way that i used mantles was a stat stick um i was throwing them on to give myself extra gem slots once that was added in iceborne um right it didn't i didn't
00:23:48
Speaker
use them to change my play style. I'm a very aggressive player, I guess I should say. My primary, my starting weapon in Rise was dual blades and I am now a switch axe main as of this time. What was the reason for the switch, if you will?
00:24:07
Speaker
Dual blades were fine, they didn't feel as punchy, and I spent pretty much all of the world playing dual blades, so I just needed a change of flavor. They made some significant changes to how Switch Axe plays, which ended up being very fun. We'll cut this part, but I'm not hitting stop at this point.
00:24:32
Speaker
Keep it going, Justin. What are you talking about? SwitchX is what I've been playing mostly, and the big changes that they added are really damage-based in how it feels.
00:24:49
Speaker
The SwitchX has what they call an amp meter. You have to do a certain number of hits in sword mode, and you build up amp meter. Previous in world, you basically always wanted to use a power file. It was just a stat on the weapon. But they made it so that different files charge amp at different rates, and since amp
Weapon Evolution and Skills Consistency
00:25:12
Speaker
gives you extra damage pretty substantially. You want to try and be an amp phase as much as possible. So the non-power file has actually become more useful because you can get into amp quicker. Is that an electric guitar? Is that the joke that they're making?
00:25:33
Speaker
Because it's a switch axe, right? Yeah. It pretty well could be. We don't get the musical instrument version, though. I know Rachel's played some hunting horn, and some of those look real cool or really disgusting, depending on which monster you made them from. Yeah. Dude, I created a weapon out of your snoot, sorry.
00:25:55
Speaker
And they added some new skills that make, once you have, it makes Switch Axe feel so much better. Theoretically applied to Charge Blade, too, but I haven't touched Charge Blade since Friday. So do they keep the weapons and weapon sets from previous games? Like, do they mostly stay the same, or are they still modifying and evolving them?
00:26:15
Speaker
They always seem to change exactly what skills and how the decorations work and stuff like that between games. They really won't change a lot of that inside a game. Like during patches, they'll just keep adding more to kind of fix some of those problems. But you kind of get a rough idea of like, okay, a Rathlo set is going to be focused on fire attack and base attack.
00:26:41
Speaker
A Besserios is going to be this. So when they start announcing new monsters coming in in patches, you can kind of get an idea of what skills are probably going to focus on, but you never necessarily know exactly how much it's going to give her a certain thing and stuff like that.
00:26:58
Speaker
Right.
Player Rituals and Habits
00:26:59
Speaker
When you say new monsters, you mean monsters that have been in the series for like 20 years? Yeah. Sorry. NBA2K. Sorry. I'm thinking of FIFA. But no, there was a decent number of legitimately new monsters, which some of them have been real fun. Right.
00:27:18
Speaker
I don't want to name names and spoil things, but there's... They'll come for us. Yeah. But they always bring back a good share of monsters. There's fan favorites. And those monsters that they bring back had skill sets that they'll still kind of emulate with whatever the new mechanisms are.
00:27:40
Speaker
It is kind of a core part of Monster Hunter that the skills you sort of used, the nature of Monster Hunting tends to persist. You always have a leg up if you played the previous games. I think when we were first suggesting this episode,
00:28:04
Speaker
I mentioned Monster Hunter is really interesting because it does actually form rituals. There is the make sure that you eat, make sure that you pet the poogie, which unfortunately there is no poogie in this one. Yeah, so this is the reason I haven't picked it up. Yeah. Well, you can't pick up the poogie. That's what Jake's saying.
00:28:28
Speaker
encourages you to form a habit and in some cases, apply a little bit of like superstition to that habit for trying to get item drops. And yeah, that's a lot of that is a learned habit from playing previous games. And when they remove certain systems from that, it can get a little, it can feel weird until you adjust.
00:28:54
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, it's not like it's all the rituals are superstition. Some of the rituals are literally eat food, use buffs, switch out to the right gear. Yes. Yeah.
00:29:06
Speaker
But the game's always been, or at least in World, it felt like a large part of that. Literally someone on Steam just started playing Monster Hunter World. I find that funny. As I said, the word World actually. But I think it's a significant portion of that. Have they adjusted the, I'd say the monster prep?
Balance of Preparation and Hunting
00:29:29
Speaker
versus like the monster hunt ratio at all in this? I feel like we are hunting more, but some of that is curse of knowledge. So Rachel has a friend that she's had, like a childhood friend. Rachel's love Monster Hunter, but this friend never got into it, but was interested in Rise. She has a Switch finally, like a console that would play it and was in a prime state to finally engage with it.
00:29:59
Speaker
Right. Emotionally ready. Yeah. Emotionally available, that's what I'm saying. So they're coming in from ground zero. They know nothing. And Rachel was telling me that they've completed all the quests up to the point that they are, but their playtime is somewhere like 50% higher than what my playtime is, and I have the quest complete.
00:30:24
Speaker
Um, so she's getting more different, different forms of enjoyment out of that time playing, but also some of it was trying to figure out what the game wasn't teaching. Um, so they, it's a game based around optimization. You're going to find yourself in situations where like, I'm going to play with friends that have like been playing the series for awhile and you load it and you're like, man, this map looks cool. And they're like already like on gliders on the opposite side of the map.
00:30:51
Speaker
And you just get like a screen notification. It's like Rathian's been pulled or whatever. It's like, that doesn't actually pop up in the game, but a similar effect, essentially. You show up, the monster's like already asleep in a trap. You just kick it once. You're like, aha, you helped. Good job, guys. You're just swinging your blade, trying to keep your allies off of it as much as possible so you can actually get some game time.
00:31:17
Speaker
They kind of improved some of that too. So the first time you zone into a monster, into a hunt for a monster, their icon is a question mark, but you see it from second zero. So in World, you had to like find tracks and guide you where it was, and eventually you'll figure out that, oh, it's on this map point.
00:31:42
Speaker
But there's essentially none of that.
Streamlined Monster Tracking
00:31:45
Speaker
It's just information that's given to you. The assumption in the lore is that you're from like a high class hunting village. Like from day zero, you were raised to be a hunter and there are scouts constantly looking at these regions. So they know where the monsters are and they only send in the hunter once.
00:32:04
Speaker
They need to take care of it, basically. Gotcha. You're not like one of those pours that has to use scout flies. Yeah. You just you just use money and you pay off all the scouts in the region. They're just like, yeah, monsters over there. We like put it in a pen. It's sedated. Like just just go smack it a little bit and start throwing scales and gems at you. Yeah. Seated by the scouts.
00:32:31
Speaker
But yes, it's less monster hunter and more monster killing, I guess. There is still a lot of external stuff of making items, but they reduced the item pool a little bit.
00:32:47
Speaker
there used to be like might pills which were very short duration. Those are completely gone. They do still have dust and the seeds stack. So there is the optimization from item usage there. But it's one less thing to juggle.
Endgame Content and Pacing
00:33:08
Speaker
And it was if you're in a solo speed run, it was very hard to use those pills because like they're like
00:33:14
Speaker
15 second duration. So they were primarily used by a like hunting horn player that was running wide range would use the pill while the SwitchX users were doing ZSDs and terminology for terminology's sake.
00:33:35
Speaker
You're just describing Monster Hunter. Where everybody else is, you thought the game ended at the credits. And then there's you who knows the game begins after the credits. That's a tour that was long. That's a tour. I mean, one of the complaints about Rise was that the first credit scroll happens too quickly. There's actually a relatively few number of quests in the base game.
00:34:04
Speaker
they are patching that so we just got the 2.0 patch which added some much needed like endgame stuff but getting the first credits came in
00:34:16
Speaker
15 hours 20 hours something like that. Um, so a reasonable time in any other game, but uh, i'm not monster And then high rank i mean so i'm at like 100 hours, uh with all quests cleared um, but I don't think any of the
00:34:36
Speaker
star ranks, so there's seven ranks of hunts. I don't think any of them in base game had more than two pages of hunts. They got rid of a lot of the filler quests, so the quests to go grab an egg, the quests to go... They basically consolidated a lot of those... Dave's just shaking his head.
00:34:57
Speaker
Fucking hated that So most of the most of the quests you get are go kill or capture this thing and that's it I'm actually in village.
Streamlined Quest Approach
00:35:07
Speaker
I don't think there was a single capture quest if I'm remembering correctly So that's not something you encounter until you get into hub as the necessity. You can still
00:35:17
Speaker
Your character has to go through the cycle of murder until there's a transformative moment in their backstory. And they're like, maybe this is wrong. Maybe I should be taking nonviolent means. They realize that the monsters have feelings. It's like, I'll just enslave you instead. Right. Your parents were monsters or something like that. And you're like, oh, no.
00:35:38
Speaker
I mean, do you like the transition in this? Or do you just like you see some upsides and downsides with it? Because it seems like overall, it's it's very streamlined for Monster Hunter. Like I do remember a lot of the as you put it earlier, the attrition of world of having to go and find something. And it definitely felt more weighted, not necessarily in a bad way. But compared to that demo, I was like,
00:36:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the base game is definitely more like a Monster Hunter than the demo is. The demos, they've had demos for previous games and they were the same structure. They're more like the arena quest where you get a given armor set and you're most of just go kill the thing. You're dropping on it. Whereas the game has you do certain things, build those rituals. They just para drop you onto the map and you're like, if you can hit the monster, then you start out mounted. You're like, great, let's go. There's a little bit of that, but I don't know.
00:36:32
Speaker
But I enjoy it because I've already experienced the full attrition one, so I can appreciate not having to do some of that. I'm just there for Fashion Hunter and Collection at this point, basically, waiting for new content to come out. For someone new, there is still plenty of...
00:36:53
Speaker
learning curve to get over. So simplifying some of those systems so that that curve doesn't have as high of a plateau is probably for the better.
Skill Customization in Rise
00:37:03
Speaker
I don't necessarily think anything of super consequence was lost.
00:37:08
Speaker
They traded some of the things and some of the things that I enjoyed from the generate Monster hunter generations the game have also been brought back so you can actually change your You have to do certain quests and do certain actions outside of hunts to unlock additional skills for your weapons There's basically three skill slots that you can swap a a move set for It's path of monster hunter
00:37:36
Speaker
A little bit. They're not locked out in any way. You can swap them freely. They're basically equipment. It's Monster Hunter, Lord of Destruction. That doesn't work. We couldn't do that in Diablo 2. It would have been 3, but Diablo 3 didn't have a subtitle, so it didn't work for a joke. I digress. But that's not saying that the game doesn't have faults from certain things that they also decide to bring back. Stars.
00:38:07
Speaker
in World, they made the decorations that you got were RNG based, you would go and do investigations and the tier of investigation would have a certain chance to drop a certain style of decoration and you'd be good to go. So you would spend a lot of time hunting like the same small subset of monsters that dropped the decoration grade that you wanted
00:38:29
Speaker
Primarily attack farming route for anybody who's not super monster hunter versed. These are like stat boosting Gem to put in equipment. Yeah, it was called decorations, but that's separate from your styling Yeah, yeah, the decoration actually is not cosmetic But
00:38:52
Speaker
And that was new. So typically you crafted decorations. So you got the materials and you made the decorations to fill out whatever skills you wanted. So they're back to the older system, which was talismans. So in World, you had a necklace was just basically a gear piece. You could craft them. They had given stats on them. Piece of armor.
00:39:15
Speaker
They didn't change. So now the talismans are our RNG mechanism, which is how 4U and Generations and stuff did it.
Talismans and Gear Customization
00:39:27
Speaker
So they're gear slots that can roll up to two random skills and up to three random slots. So depending on what talismans you get can kind of open up and change what armor pieces you want for certain skills.
00:39:44
Speaker
So is this like you get a necklace and it has all of those affixes predetermined? Or is this like you have a necklace and you can slot things in your talisman? You get a necklace with RNG skills and gems. So when you generate one, it's random what skills it has and what gem slots it has.
00:40:07
Speaker
And then if you didn't get a set that you wanted, you have to pay the price again, do a hunt, and then get another one back out. But these are gem slots, right? So you could get a talisman with two prefixes or affixes. Then you're like, oh, this is good for damage. I want to stack more damage in there. And then put those specific decorations in to maximize that. Yeah. Gotcha. OK. That's interesting. But there's a problem with it, though, in that
00:40:38
Speaker
you're locked out of certain builds. You can never max out a certain skill possibly with the gear that's available. There are certain
00:40:48
Speaker
there's a potential for there to be a talisman that you can get that has skills on gear that you cannot get yet. So if you're trying to do a certain build combination, you may not be able to hit earplugs five, which would actually prevent you from getting screamed out of the sky because you didn't get a talisman that gave you that.
00:41:10
Speaker
Which was the same in Worlds, right? They just had a lot of gear with a lot of different effects. And because we are still early in the patch cycle, there's a lot of gear that has the potential of getting added to allow that building. And when 2.0 came out, which was their first patch a month after release,
00:41:31
Speaker
that kind of filled out a lot of those options. We actually didn't have decorations for certain skills, so you needed a talisman with X skills on them to be able to kind of hit a endgame gear set. Now to alleviate a little bit, you could kind of fudge the skills a little bit on the talisman and still get away with having a relatively complete gear set.
00:41:56
Speaker
Because of the year that it released and the year that it was developed in, they weren't able to hit all of their stuff before release. So what we would normally have in a full game, we're getting in the first couple of patches.
00:42:12
Speaker
because of Covid. Right. He said it. I mean, that's what Animal Crossing did, too. Yeah. Do you like that from like a intermittent release thing where you can keep going back to check on it or are you looking to kind of binge all of the content the game has at once and then set it aside?
Content Updates and Patches
00:42:35
Speaker
This one feels really good to play.
00:42:40
Speaker
So from a tactile standpoint, I enjoy the actions of doing a hunt.
00:42:50
Speaker
So I'm getting a satisfaction out of refighting monsters, even though they're not doing anything necessarily new. The fact that the 2-0 patch came within a month of the game, roughly a month of the game's release, and the 3-0 patch is expected this month of May. So two months. That's a pretty quick turnaround.
00:43:13
Speaker
Exactly, which is why it definitely feels like they were things that were in the pipeline. They just weren't able to get them for the targeted release dates because those were set by different departments than whomever. But having that additional like, tick tock of content, especially with how substantial 2.0 felt.
00:43:33
Speaker
kind of helped revitalize it as I was starting to wane out of the idea. I did everything available. I'm not really looking for anything else right now. And then it was like, okay, now there's more stuff to do again. And it's on the more difficult end. So it brought me back.
00:43:51
Speaker
And that's very much like, that's the Monster Hunter content cycle anyways, right? Like they'd never like, all right, we release the game and that's it. Like get ready. Popias want to see the next one in a couple of years. Like they're just like patches. And like this one has Street Fighter characters. This one has Mega Man. And this one's like a holiday event.
00:44:13
Speaker
Yeah, they're back to the handheld style with that a little bit. They're mostly going to be tied to Event Quest, probably. But those Event Quests don't time out like they did in the world. It's a little bit less games as a service, at least as it feels right now. But also no subscription and stuff like that. And we are 100% expecting a G rank slash ultimate
00:44:41
Speaker
game release in a year and a half time that will add the next rank that's above high rank.
Speculation on Future Content
00:44:49
Speaker
Gotcha. So are you expecting, I guess, them to kind of weigh more heavily on new monsters for this? Or also bring back some old classics for this new G rank?
00:45:03
Speaker
They're always going to add some new monsters, and I think that there's certainly some interesting things they can do. One of the new monsters in Base Rise uses a system very similar to our Wirebugs, one of the movement mechanics that we have. So that was fun. If they had more monsters do stuff like that, I think there's...
00:45:26
Speaker
And they have a good track record for originality in their monster design. It's just how much effort they'll dedicate to that. Right. So I actually have a question here too, because the convenient, right, in that we're doing this sort of like Q&A format.
00:45:49
Speaker
So Monster Hunter World was the game I could get into for multiple reasons. But one of them was that it was released on a major powerful console. First, obviously, it came out. And then I played it on PC, too. And it was really nice to be able to play it on PC. And then immediately after, they're straight back to the handheld. Do you know why they expanded the audience for World? The platform.
00:46:16
Speaker
that they were the platforms that they were deploying to for world and then immediately kind of like pulled back to
Console to Handheld Transition
00:46:21
Speaker
handheld. I don't have the exact details, but we are expecting a PC release for Rise.
00:46:27
Speaker
Um, so there is going to be a PC port for it. Um, I'm assuming Nintendo was like, Hey, we want some of that monster hunter stuff. And also the handheld versions. So world sold phenomenally in the West. It was basically average in Japan, which is kind of expect, right? Yeah. It's not like massive.
00:46:51
Speaker
But even the console versions, it's harder for a lot of Japanese audience to have a console, and they spend so much time commuting that it being on a handheld system really works with their lives better. Gotcha. They can squeeze in a 15-minute hunt someplace, whereas you can't necessarily go home and squeeze it in.
00:47:25
Speaker
I just figured it was market saturation and kind of getting more so in better than Tendo because they're fucking huge.
00:47:33
Speaker
I think they've always had a good working relationship with Nintendo. It went from Sony to Nintendo for a while, and I'm sure Nintendo, possibly. Obviously, I'm not privy to any of the details to this. Pretend you are. You say things authoritatively, and most people won't know.
00:47:52
Speaker
But there was probably some kind of deal where they always planned on having a mobile release too. They just wanted to see if they could break into the Western market by going for a full console release and stuff like that. They even got a movie out of it that they're kind of disowning.
00:48:09
Speaker
There's nothing more traditionally in the video game space than making a movie about your IP and then pretending that it never happened. We've all been there. Do you know what everyone else who doesn't follow this will love? This thing they know nothing about. Do you know what everyone will hate who does care about this? Oh, okay. I'm sure World of Warcraft movie was good or something. I don't know.
00:48:30
Speaker
I don't think it can be good. I would like to be proved wrong, but... It came out, didn't it? Yeah, I saw it in theaters. On point. Not good, right? Not particularly. I didn't think it would be. Justin, before I forget, I did want to ask, and I know I keep putting it off, it's not natural in the flow of conversation, but skippable cutscenes,
Skippable Cutscenes
00:48:54
Speaker
yes or no? Yes. Oh my god, I might get the game.
00:48:57
Speaker
There's also no, like, you have to see the cutscene to start a hunt. Rachel's friend, we were able to hop into her hunts as soon as they started, because they play a cutscene introducing the monster as soon as you load a given quest for it. And then you can skip that cutscene if you want to, but there's no, like, finding the monster on the map and then, like, it's setting up a scene. It's just...
00:49:22
Speaker
Yeah, you're hunting this thing. You already know what it's called. You're not like investigating. There's less investigation. I hate when like you're specifically trying to run somebody new through some content and you're like, hey, it's that thing. And then it's like 10 minutes of fucking Kabuki theater. We're like, we know. Let me kill it.
00:49:42
Speaker
We were playing this this came up I guess for not like a super recent episode But when you're doing the Outriders demo or no, not Outriders. It was the magic the magic legends magic legends like you couldn't actually remember the name because I played it for like one weekend and I was like, I don't know I mean like some of the abilities are kind of cool and stuff and then I was like It's weird that I can't like do co-op or like invite people yet How long is that gonna take and it's like two hours?
00:50:10
Speaker
of gameplay before you can even like invite anybody to play with you. And this reminded me a little bit about Monster Hunter Worlds where I was just like, I want to play with friends. And like the friends are just like standing at the side lanes and they're just like, no, no, he needs to do this for himself. Cut scene plays. Okay, now we can help him with the actual monster.
00:50:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's like I started playing.
PS4 to PC Transition
00:50:36
Speaker
I say started playing. There was an hour where a friend's like, hey, I'm getting a demonstrator on the PC. I did play it on PS4. I'm trying to get, you know, a new account sped back up like, yeah, sure, let me know.
00:50:46
Speaker
So I hop on, and it was literally an hour of me waiting, where he's like, oh, sorry, I have to do this expedition. Oh, sorry, I have to do this expedition. And he's like, hey, do you want to play something else? I'm like, yeah, let's do that. But that was the exact experience. I'm sure many other people have had that as well. And it fucking sucks. Because the game should be for the gameplay. It's fine to have cinematic experiences.
00:51:09
Speaker
Specifically, when we transitioned from PS4 to PC, I just found a save online that had the story completed up to the first patch so that when Rachel was doing hers, I was basically already ready to just drop in. Right.
00:51:28
Speaker
I had to farm all my gear myself and stuff like that, but it was just... You chose to. You didn't have to. You chose to. You wanted to be legit. I understand. Respect for cheating, but also for being not cheating. Again, I enjoy playing the game. It is funny.
00:51:48
Speaker
This isn't really the topic, but the I know the save game editor for Monster Hunter World is literally just like you could just pick your gear, pick your decorations, slap them on there.
RNG and Speedrunning
00:51:59
Speaker
And it's kind of it's weird, right? Because it's kind of is to take the throwback almost to that single player.
00:52:07
Speaker
ruin the experience like right out with the cheat code, right? Because Monster Connor is literally about grinding past the point. And it's just like, you could not have that instantly with the save game editor. But we do it anyways. And it's because I think people are psychopaths, but. Well, there's some. So this gets to some of the older style things. So some of the RNG related to the Talismans.
00:52:34
Speaker
So because there's RNG related to Talismans, there's also a time attack community, the speedrun communities for killing X monster, X hunt with X weapon in X amount of time and getting those times lower and lower speedrun communities. But because there's an RNG mechanic to the gear that you have access to, there are people that will smurf a...
00:52:59
Speaker
talisman that has really good skills theoretically possible in game uh not necessarily attainable in game gosh, yeah huh so is that like a split amongst the community of like well they're not really a hundred percent it's more of like any percenters but there's like three things that people are talking about trying to do but
00:53:21
Speaker
trying to curate that and stuff like that. It's just basically YouTube videos, right? People post videos of me. I killed this guy and you can take that for what it is, but there's even a, uh, a charm editor for the switch version. Um, so game shark power to the place.
00:53:40
Speaker
Man. I gotta say, I do kind of miss some of the chaos and customizing your pets and having cool armor sets of Monster Hunter. But at the same time, it is so much chaos. Like I just remember a lot of grinding. Like you'd hop on, you'd probably spend two hours running some hunts with people. And that was maybe like four or five missions.
00:54:07
Speaker
Well, it's kind of like the people who are really into monster hunter are like, they're circuit runners and they're like continually going around the track and you can kind of like be like, man, that kind of looks kind of fun. Like, it looks like they're getting a good exercise or killing monsters as they run around the track.
New vs Veteran Player Challenges
00:54:22
Speaker
I want to like jump in and you jump in for like a lap and you do like another lap.
00:54:27
Speaker
And you're like, hey, you know how long are we going to be running here? And they're like, we're never going to stop. And so you're just like, I'm going to go play Starcraft or something for a little bit. And then you just keep playing. And they keep haunting. And they're on Monster Hunter Rise while you're still on World. And you haven't even finished beating Teyostre yet. And people have told you to check on Iceborne. But you're like, maybe I'll get around to it sometime. And it just never happened for you.
00:54:55
Speaker
So weird who would tell you that yeah, this is a purely theoretical analogy not grounded in reality Yeah, I'll just keep doing my like 10-minute hunts of seven stars and you guys just join up anytime, right? Let me cue into this It is crazy that like real talk for anybody who's not super monster hunter versed ten minutes is insane a lot of
00:55:20
Speaker
I think historically, Monster Hunter has capped out at 50 minutes, is that correct? Correct, yep. So you have a total of 50 minutes to prep, do whatever the fuck, kill a monster, and harvest their organs, and then you're done. At 50 minutes, you're hard evacuated. So if you can beat something at what is currently the highest tier in a game, at 10 minutes, 1 fifth of the allotted time,
00:55:43
Speaker
That is insane. That really speaks to Justin's skill as a gamer, gamer pride, but also how much quicker the game has gotten. Yeah. Well, so bringing up that point, Rachel's friend there talking about earlier, the monster that I was farming before coming up here to do this podcast,
00:56:04
Speaker
We always make our guests prep. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Humblebrag was, uh, I did some 10 minutes. I had some refights there a little bit longer than 10 minutes. Fine. Whatever that same monster. Um, the person who had just started actually did legitimately time out the first time she encountered her. Um, it has, it's, it's the intro quest to the highest rank. It has a whole bunch of new moves. It has more limbs.
00:56:32
Speaker
than most other monsters do. Spoilery, not spoilers. It's a spider. It's a hydra. Don't worry about the limbs so much. I'm just imagining the skinner, or like principal skinner overhead view, like pathetic image macro. That's what I hear in this humble brag comparison.
00:56:53
Speaker
Um, but no, so the 15 minutes I had actually asked Rachel, it's on like, what is the point of the 50 minute timer anymore? It seems kind of weird. And like in world, there were investigations that had a 15 minute timer, which felt tight. A lot of circumstances you were killing elder dragons with one car in 15 minutes, or you failed. Um, this doesn't have any of those like super tight timing windowed ones.
00:57:18
Speaker
So it was kind of just weird that everything was dying fast, and why do we have 50 minutes? But then being able to still hear it, it comes back to that curse of knowledge of playing Monster Hunter long enough that I know how to prep for a fight, even if it's a new fight for me, compared to somebody just coming in from the ground floor.
Multiplayer Dynamics
00:57:37
Speaker
I can back you up that there's a very big difference in pacing between clearing a monster that you never encountered for the first time in a game where you don't know the shortcuts to how to do things and Justin's gameplay.
00:57:56
Speaker
I can get 10 more raw damage out of this? Yeah, I'll take that. Thank you. And I'm like, what's raw damage? It's just due to sheer benevolence that it shows up for Co-op, I think. I realized the monster hit points scale up with more people in play, which is nice. It's better than the opposite you described, where it was always scaled for multiplayer.
00:58:22
Speaker
But like sometimes just in the back of my head I'm like I'm probably doing like 15% of the damage on this thing This guy this guy would have wiped out a pack of Rathalos He was like running this solo right now It's it's it adds a certain layer of fun to playing with buddies though like that's true it's legitimately like
00:58:45
Speaker
Rachel hates it, but she has to cover me a lot of times. And I enjoy that. She gives me additional openings that I wouldn't be able to exploit normally. And then there's just
00:59:01
Speaker
the extra chaos that Dave was bringing up earlier of I don't know what's going on. And that means that this is more interesting right now. Yeah. Because if you're playing solo, the way I portrayed it earlier is like the random aggro kind of like going between different like monsters focusing on different players at different times. That sounds like a straight plus if you're just like, oh, I need time to take a breather, use a mantle, pop some consumables, whatever in Monster Hunter World.
00:59:28
Speaker
The trade-off is for the high tier players, like our podcast guest. It's like the monster is now less predictable than if you were just 1v1ing it, right? Like a Diablos in the sand pit. Oh, yeah. And just like, oh, that charge move is at me in this line. Yes. Oh, it's great to turn and hip check you. Well, that means that that hit value zone is now 10 percent of what I was planning on. Thanks. Yeah.
00:59:57
Speaker
It introduces variables, which is how programming works. There were probably programmers on this game. Really? Interesting. Oh man. Well, as we have come to the sunset of Rise episode, I guess the
Concluding Thoughts on Monster Hunter Rise
01:00:20
Speaker
game's still out. It's going to have a lot of patches probably. There will definitely be content.
01:00:24
Speaker
what would what would your takeaways be for someone who's
01:00:30
Speaker
Maybe just played Worlds or hasn't really played the series yet, even. Maybe that's a more interesting question. I think more people have probably still not taken their first step into Monster Hunter. And maybe don't have the PC for Worlds, don't have a PlayStation, but pretty much everyone and their dog has a Switch. I know I've seen their Miis. So would you recommend Rise as an entry point into the series? Rise is a great entry point into the series.
01:01:01
Speaker
all of the quality of life improvements have certainly helped get people through the content. There's the demo available, which alleviates some of that. What you see in the demo is what you're going to be doing the majority of the time, so I would definitely check that out. If you're even slightly inclined and you have
01:01:26
Speaker
the desire to pursue the game fully, the village quests make it your story. And they definitely lowered the barrier of entry of actually playing with friends, which is always a win. I like the phrase you make it your story. It kind of makes it reminds me a little bit. It's like you really feel like the monster. Which is good, which is good if I get you there.
01:01:52
Speaker
I mean, Jake, are you converted at this point? No, I'm just here for the content. Yeah. No. I mean, realistically, I don't know. Cause I still, like you said, it's kind of a joke. I still haven't completed iceborne and I find myself when I'm in a monster hunter type mood, like really enjoying monster hunter world. So if I haven't cleared that other than the social experience and knowing that people have switched over to rise.
01:02:23
Speaker
Like, what necessarily is my incentive to jump over and start over? It's really that social aspect, probably the.
01:02:32
Speaker
The big thing is you're comparing Iceborne, which there's no longer getting content updates. So it is a complete game to Rise, where they are still adding content in, patching things, minor changes. They don't make substantial changes in patches for actual movesets, stuff like that. But you're going to be fighting as available. And because Iceborne is the world's version of Ultimate G rank,
01:03:02
Speaker
those fights are harder from a base level than the stuff that you might be encountering. This is how you sell me on it. You say like Monster Hunter Rise is an easier game. And I'm like, I could maybe go for that, you know? I don't. That's a good hot take. We'll just leave on that. No, I'm just kidding. There was a lot of community complaint that Rise was too easy of a game when it first came out.
01:03:29
Speaker
And I think most of that stems from the curse of knowledge that I talked about earlier. But if you're looking for something just to be able to fight and if people have to start commuting or your computer isn't available or you just want to sit not at your computer desk for a couple of hours after you know. The Switch version may do that for you.
01:03:57
Speaker
What about you, Dave? I know that you like difficult games, and it sounds like Monster Rise is for babies, so...
01:04:03
Speaker
I occasionally I appreciate the difficulty in certain things, like from a Dark Souls standpoint, because it's fixed, right? I don't have the option to pick easy, medium, hard. But when I'm planning playing a lot of other games, I'll just go in at like, give me whatever the default is so normal. Occasionally, if I'm like, that was some baby shit, let me go back and try and flex, I'll probably bump the difficulty. But that's kind of few and far between. Right.
01:04:32
Speaker
But I'm still not crazy to jump into Monster Hunter again. I really did enjoy the time I had with it. But if I was going to play, I would have it docked and play on this monitor here versus just the small resolution. Right. Because I'd be drinking potions to knock your poison or something. I'd be drinking. I do miss some of the aspect of it, but I don't know if it's going to be a pickup for me in the near future at least. Yeah.
01:05:03
Speaker
Just as a heads up, we are not currently planning on double dipping for the PC release though. So you either you play with this on the Switch or
01:05:12
Speaker
You if you can't handle us at our best The reason I'm kind of dissuaded from the switch or the PC option Not knowing anything about this other than what you've told me is because the graphics are less like high fidelity on the switch version unless they're like specifically uprising and then increasing texture quality and stuff like that on the PC and
01:05:35
Speaker
I almost don't see the point, actually. I'm going to be using controller anyways. Usually the reason I play games on the PC is because the graphics are a bit better. Since the Rise is built on the RE7 engine, there's a good chance that there's probably just some...
01:05:51
Speaker
toggles they can turn on on the PC version to increase foliage and stuff like that. Modules probably change. You turn that off anyways. Yeah. You can't see hitboxes if you're looking at bushes and trees. Turn that to zero. And notches always are not here anyways, so. I go to Andross tier of Polygon in my finds. Right. This is how the pros play.
01:06:14
Speaker
But I would like to thank Justin for being on this episode, trying to solve a game that we had no hope. Justin, between you and me, Jake has never thanked me for being on. I'm just going to put it up there. Dave keeps showing up. No, it is. It sounds like an interesting continuation in the Monster Hunter series. I think it'll have pretty big
01:06:37
Speaker
For people who didn't care about Monster Hunter at all, world was their end, and this is the continuation. So we'll see where it ends up. And it's cool that it's on the Switch, because that's one of the consoles that I own. Thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, thanks for being on. No worries. Again, we will continue to pester you for episodes in the future, roughly on a rotation as we go through other people, roughly.
01:07:05
Speaker
But if you guys out there in the wide internet world have ideas for episodes that you would like to send in or Celebrity guests that you would like to suggest you can send those ideas into us at soapstone podcast at gmail.com or You can join the discussion that presumably still happens on Facebook. I don't know at facebook.com slash soapstone podcast And as always we'll see in the next one Have a good rise
01:07:36
Speaker
Was that bad? Justin, you should probably system to cleanse that palette. The sun is setting. Perfect.