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#129: Ashley Bizzell: The power of lifestyle medicine to reverse disease and improve health
658 Plays22 days ago
In this episode of the Kate Hamilton Health podcast, I sit down with Ashley Bizzell, a registered dietitian and diabetes care specialist with a deep passion for using lifestyle medicine to reverse chronic disease. We dive into the powerful connection between nutrition, fasting, and sustainable health - and how small, strategic changes can lead to big transformations.
Ashley shares her clinical experience and gives us a closer look at the science behind the fasting-mimicking diet, what makes it unique, and how it supports metabolic health, insulin sensitivity, and inflammation reduction. We also talk about real-world strategies for creating long-term habits, how to balance whole foods and supplements, and why telehealth is changing the game for accessible, ongoing care. If you're curious about reversing conditions like type 2 diabetes or heart disease through lifestyle shifts, this episode is packed with actionable insight.
Disclaimer: I don’t personally recommend fasting as a universal approach and share my concerns in this episode. This conversation is meant to inform - not replace personalised medical advice.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:
[0:17] - Ashley’s journey from traditional nutrition into lifestyle medicine and telehealth
[1:24] - What you need to know about fasting and its metabolic benefits
[6:15] - The difference between intermittent and prolonged fasting
[14:16] - Real-life examples of how fasting and nutrition reversed chronic conditions
[25:23] - Finding the right balance: lifestyle, nutrition, and practical change
[32:43] - Ashley’s top dietary recommendations for sustainable health
[41:33] - Whole foods vs. supplements: what really matters for your body
[50:50] - How telehealth is transforming access to coaching and chronic care
Links & Resources:
- Connect with me on Instagram here
- Connect with Ashley on Instagram here
- Learn more about KHH coaching here
- Learn more about L-Nutra here
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with friends who might benefit. For more health and fitness tips, follow me on Instagram and TikTok @katehamiltonhealth.
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Guest
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Kate Hamilton Health Podcast. So in today's episode, I chat with Ashley Bizzell. Ashley is a highly experienced registered dietitian and certified diabetes care and education specialist with over 15 years of clinical expertise.
00:00:27
Speaker
As the clinical nutrition manager at El Nutri Health, Ashley leads clinical nutrition coaching, curriculum development and training for global partners, focusing on advancing initiatives around type 2 diabetes remission.
Passion for Telehealth and Lifestyle Medicine
00:00:41
Speaker
Her specialty areas include weight management, cardiovascular disease and critical care nutrition. Ashley is deeply passionate about leveraging telehealth, which I didn't know what it meant until I chatted to her, and lifestyle medicine to reverse chronic diseases and improve patient outcomes.
00:00:56
Speaker
She holds a Bachelor of Science degree from Clemson University and completed her dietetic internship at Winthrop University. Ashley brings a wealth of clinical experience combined with a passion for evidence-based patient-centered care that empowers people to take control of their health, which is exactly what we talk about.
00:01:17
Speaker
Her insights into lifestyle medicine and intermittent fasting offer listeners practical science-backed tools to transform their well-being. Now, saying that, we chat, especially at the start of this podcast, around the topic
Debate on Fasting and Weight Loss
00:01:29
Speaker
of fasting. And any of you who know me at this stage know that I'm not a big fan of fasting, particularly when it comes for weight loss and sustainable lifestyle.
00:01:39
Speaker
However, it was a really interesting conversation to learn scientifically what happens in the body with different types of fasts. That doesn't mean that I think it's something that I would promote to my clients.
00:01:54
Speaker
But hearing Ashley's expertise was really, really interesting on what actually happens in the body and how it can actually improve your
Reversing Diseases through Fasting
00:02:02
Speaker
health. We talk about, in relation to fasting and other lifestyle factors, reversing chronic diseases like type 2 diabetes and heart disease.
00:02:11
Speaker
So like this is groundbreaking. We talk about lifestyle medicine, food as medicine. So really looking to eat to be healthy. which is what I'm all about, and having a healthy lifestyle. And that's part of this conversation I found so valuable, that this is about a healthy lifestyle. This is about eating for health.
00:02:29
Speaker
This is not about super restricting everything. And I talk to her a lot around balance and how I feel that balance is a really important part for living our healthy lifestyles. And I do challenge her on that. And she is in agreement that it is important for us to live a healthy lifestyle.
00:02:44
Speaker
So while we talk about fasting, it is very much directed towards reversing chronic diseases from a medical standpoint, which is a really, really interesting narrative to hear.
00:02:56
Speaker
I also got some nutrition tips from her. So as a registered dietitian, what did she think were the do's and the don'ts in relation to nutrition? So I asked her this. She gave her advice. I asked her why the different recommendations.
00:03:09
Speaker
She gave some really, really helpful advice here as well. And what I really loved about this conversation is how much it promotes a proactive approach to our health.
00:03:21
Speaker
And even if we're suffering with chronic disease, we can still be proactive about it. And that's what I loved about this conversation. I think you will love that about this
Fasting Mimicking Diet and Benefits
00:03:31
Speaker
conversation too. And you will leave this conversation feeling more empowered about your own health.
00:03:39
Speaker
Ashley, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Kate. Thank you so much for having me today. I'm really excited to talk about everything that we are going to talk about. Before we do, want let everyone know little bit about you and what you do?
00:03:52
Speaker
Sure. Yes. so My name is Ashley Bazell. I'm a dietician. I'm also a diabetes educator. And I work for L Nutri Health. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Prolonged Fasting. Maybe you've heard of Proline, but I'm in the medical arm of that company and actually the director of clinical nutrition and global training there. So we do evidence-based nutrition care with our patients, incorporating fasting, mimicking diet, along with lifestyle medicine to optimize health and drive chronic diseases into remission.
00:04:21
Speaker
Amazing. What led you on this path? Like this is your life's work now that you're working towards in relation to treating these chronic diseases. Yes. You know, it's interesting. i guess I was always a little bit interested in nutrition and wanted to go into the medical field. And i loved that nutrition was something I could take with me for life.
00:04:41
Speaker
And as I've gotten older, there's not a lot of nutrition education component in medical school. And it's something that's so vital, so basic to kind of our survival and prevention and ended up staying in nutrition, obviously, and I've been practicing for about 20 years.
00:04:57
Speaker
but had been in hospital setting, outpatient setting. I've always loved working with people, but in the outpatient setting, you get to see the outcomes. You get to see people make change and improve their health.
00:05:09
Speaker
Moved into the telehealth space in 2020, as a lot of people were kind of forced to do, um but I've been here at L-Nutra Health and and I've just seen tremendous improvements incorporating both fasting and just good daily habits to optimize their health in the long-term and prevent disease.
00:05:27
Speaker
So it's a great place to be, but just something thing I'm truly passionate about in helping others.
Nutrition Beyond Weight Loss
00:05:32
Speaker
I'm really excited to talk about this because in this world and this online world of health and fitness,
00:05:39
Speaker
Everything is about fat loss. Everything is about weight loss. Everything is about here's a quick fix. Here's a drug to take. It's always something in order to how you look and what's the quick and easy way to do this. So I'm really, really excited to talk about nutrition for health.
00:05:56
Speaker
And even just by you talking about seeing these tremendous changes to have an empowering conversation around chronic disease and what. So if someone is at the early stages of type two diabetes or, you know, or whatever that They don't need to feel hopeless. is I'm really excited to talk about this.
00:06:13
Speaker
So I suppose what I really want to ask first is let's talk a little bit around fasting. So quite often what I find in the health and fitness space is people really want to fast and they really want to fast because they think they're going to lose weight.
00:06:27
Speaker
And that that's the reason why they're doing it. As a health and fitness coach who's trying to help people just build steady habits, I tend to pro promote, let's spread your meals out and let's make sure that we don't leave too long. So we're not, you know, that we're not getting too hungry and then make really bad choices.
00:06:41
Speaker
So what I would love to hear is from you is the yeah the science behind why someone might fast and what that's going to do to help them. Sure, that's a great question.
00:06:52
Speaker
And first of all, I wanna address two different types of fasting because that's really key too. So most people are familiar with intermittent fasting. You know, that's where you maybe do A 12-12 fast, so 12 hours of the day, you know you keep all of your meals within those 12 hours and the other 12 hours you rest. Some people do ah more concentrated window where they eat everything within eight hours and then rest for the other 16 hours or or every other day, water fast, things like that.
00:07:20
Speaker
you know There are benefits to intermittent fasting. There's metabolic benefits, there can be weight loss benefits, even kind of some mental clarity benefits. But there's also prolonged fasting.
00:07:33
Speaker
And that's different. That's when you're fasting for greater than 48 hours and where your body kind of shifts into all these really cool science processes, something that our body just naturally knows how to do.
00:07:45
Speaker
That is where we see not only weight loss benefits, but that's where we see true cellular benefits, true kind of systemic changes because it impacts all of the cells in our body. In fact, we go into something called autophagy. Have you ever heard of autophagy?
00:08:02
Speaker
No. So autophagy, auto meaning self, phagy meaning eating, is our body's kind of natural ability to self-clean. It's like we're cycling and our body just knows how to do it. We just don't get a chance because as you mentioned a minute ago, we're all about instant gratification and we can door dash anything. We can have food at our house in moments.
00:08:23
Speaker
But this is where we give our body rest and it goes into this mode of cleanup. And the way it gets there is that it's not triggering these nutrient sensing pathways that are in our body.
00:08:37
Speaker
And so it allows the body to just kind of rest, to go into cleanup mode. That's where we see improvement in insulin sensitivity, reduction in inflammation, reduction in that visceral fat that you were talking about.
00:08:49
Speaker
But what's really neat is that there's preservation of muscle mass. And as you know, the health space too, like muscle is so key to health span and overall health. That's our good metabolic tissue.
00:09:01
Speaker
So that combination of um you know, getting to do some of that fasting, both intermittent. And then if you want that autophagy and the cellular cleanup with prolonged fasting gives you these long-term health benefits.
00:09:15
Speaker
And in fact, can reduce your cellular age or your biologic age. Wow. Okay. I have so many questions. i'm literally writing them down here as you're talking because I'm like, I need to remember what I want to say.
00:09:26
Speaker
Once I get started, it's hard to stop, Kate. Yeah. No, it's this is so fascinating. Okay. So I have lots of questions. First of all, so you're we so yeah intermittent fasting, when we're talking about 12 on, 12 off, 8 on, whatever, minus that, 16 off. Then you're talking about more prolonged fasting. How long might someone fast for?
00:09:47
Speaker
Sure. I mean, there are people that do prolonged fasting for days at a time. ah You know, what I love in the the fasting mimicking diet, ah which is a five-day fast, you get nourishment.
00:09:59
Speaker
So it's essentially a tool that's used to get you into autophagy, get the benefits of the cellular rejuvenation and renewal, but with nutrition.
00:10:10
Speaker
In fact, it gives you just enough kind of flying under the radar there that you can get into the process of autophagy. But it takes away the safety concerns of maybe micronutrient deficiency, maybe low blood sugar, low blood pressure even, or dehydration.
00:10:28
Speaker
But let's face it, it also just takes away adherence because I know I'm personally not strong enough to do a five-day water fast, and this gives you some nourishment throughout to make it- Oh, so you're consuming a product, is it?
00:10:41
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah, consuming a product. It's a structured kind of meal plan that gives you just enough macronutrient that you're flying under the radar, but you get the benefits of a prolonged fast.
00:10:55
Speaker
Okay, and you would do this for five days? You would do it for five days. And the reason why we stopped there is because that's a good amount of time to get into this autophagy, this cellular cleanup, but that people can fit it into their routines and make it something that they could do you know quarterly if they're already healthy or if they have maybe a chronic disease that they're trying to improve.
00:11:19
Speaker
that you might do it in a program setting like the L-Nutri Health programs that allows you support and guidance on how to utilize the product and help you in between. Okay.
00:11:30
Speaker
So that kind of answers my question then on how does one get the discipline to to do this and how often that that would need to happen as well. I suppose what happens after?
Sustaining Health Benefits Post-Fasting
00:11:41
Speaker
So like my experience from... Diet culture would be, you know, all these fasts, all these diets, all these quick fixes. And that's great. People see improved health benefits. They see, they drop body fat, but then what?
00:11:55
Speaker
They go back to their usual old habits and we're back to square one. Yes. That's where having a coach to really motivate you is so helpful.
00:12:06
Speaker
There's so much science behind, you know, doing ah prolonged fast and there's the benefits are independent of any changes that you do in between just by doing the fast and several cycles of that.
00:12:18
Speaker
But it really helps to have somebody encourage you along to to shift maybe your habits and help give you some practical advice and and some motivational interviewing to keep you on track.
00:12:29
Speaker
And putting into play other lifestyle factors that are so impactful to our overall health, sleep, stress management, exercise, strength training, you know, avoidance of risky substances, you know, all of these, they all kind of work together to help us with our health if we use them, if we incorporate those techniques into our are routine.
00:12:51
Speaker
How do you manage when you find that your service or your product is attracting people who are inclined to disordered eating or eating disorders where they're like, oh, great. at Like, at you know, this fasting diet, this restrictive, this, like you know, because there's with obviously promoting things online
Fasting Precautions and Success Stories
00:13:09
Speaker
as well. You know, it can be helpful or extremely detrimental.
00:13:12
Speaker
Everything can be extremely helpful or extremely detrimental depending on who's consuming. and You're absolutely right, Kate. That is something we screen for. It's really important. We would never want something to survey, especially if somebody has kind of been in remission and doing well to exacerbate those symptoms. So it's, that's why kind of in a support just setting, you know, our, we have dietitians that are trained to, to know, to look out for those things, but that is one of the exclusion criteria that we,
00:13:38
Speaker
would not recommend fasting for, for that purpose. Cause you do, you see some immediate changes in your body, weight loss changes, but we don't want to ever contribute to you know a disease for someone. Yeah.
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah, especially I suppose your objective is disease reversal, which brings me into, let's talk a little bit about what you're saying that with these this fasting and we'll talk about the different types of of of things you do as well.
00:14:08
Speaker
We're talking reversing things like type two diabetes and heart disease. Am I right? Yes, absolutely. In fact, you know we've got so many great stories, like patient stories and how they've been successful. This one gentleman's coming to mind that He'd had diabetes about four years, type two diabetes, and and was on medication.
00:14:29
Speaker
um he just wasn't taking it seriously. You know, sometimes we live in denial of what's really going on because we don't feel it. You know, diabetes is one of those things that you don't feel pain unless it's really bad. You really see kind of those long...
00:14:43
Speaker
you know, negative effects with neuropathy and different things like that. But, you know, Steve saw his A1C climbing and it finally got to a point, was like, I've got to do something about this. And he started taking his medication and then he found out about the fasting mimicking diet and the programs. And he thought, I need support to be successful.
00:15:02
Speaker
I know I can't do this on my own. And so he joined the program. His A1C was 7.2 He was on metformin to control his blood sugars. But after three cycles of fasting, and then we worked on just like simple, simple steps, like increasing your steps, setting a goal of steps each day. He's trying to do some strength training twice a week, trying to just cut back on some processed foods, just really simple things.
00:15:28
Speaker
He was able to bring that A1C down to 5.5, which is not only out of the diabetes range, but out of the prediabetes range too. And so then from there, his physician that works with us too, he said, you know what, let's drop down off of some of this medication, which he did.
00:15:45
Speaker
And then three cycles later, he was maintaining that A1C without the medication. And now he's been off a good six months. He's lost about 22 pounds and he has been able to sustain that great A1C loss and in his weight and and continuing on with healthy habits.
00:16:04
Speaker
But what I love, because all those data points are really cool. But what I truly love is when you hear somebody tell you, Ashley, I've got energy that I haven't had before.
00:16:14
Speaker
I'm sleeping better. I just feel so much more confident in my own skin. To me, those are the big wins. And he's just not feeling kind of the the daily burden of having to be strapped to taking medication and going to the doctor so frequently and things like that. Like those things, those remind us of why we're doing what we're doing.
00:16:35
Speaker
I know that's amazing to hear. What exactly is happening in the body what to cause these reversals? Like, I presume it's that your product that you're talking about that that people consume during the fast is more just to keep safe levels of nutrition in place. And it's actually the fasting that's doing the work. Am I correct?
00:16:54
Speaker
Yes, you're absolutely right. You know, fasting kind of, it triggers a shift.
Improving Health with Fasting and Lifestyle Medicine
00:16:59
Speaker
from burning glucose as the main source of fuel, which is what happens for most of us, to going into burning fat and kind of going into some ketosis, burning those ketones, fatty acids.
00:17:12
Speaker
And what that does is it improves insulin sensitivity. It reduces levels of IGF-1, which is one of those nutrient sensing pathways I mentioned earlier. It's a growth factor that's linked to aging.
00:17:24
Speaker
and disease, but also activates that cellular cleanup. So that promotes some regeneration. you know, a lot of our research will show improvement and beta cell function, which is something that gets destroyed kind of over time that you see in the diabetes population.
00:17:40
Speaker
And so it just helps kind of overall with improving the reducing visceral fat, reducing that inflammation and the insulin sensitivity. That's amazing. And I love what you say then as well about it like, yes, you use this, this fasting tool to, to, I suppose, help along the way, but then it is the fundamental habits. It's the lifestyle.
00:18:07
Speaker
Like, yeah is this what, is this what you refer to as lifestyle medicine? Yes, absolutely. You know, lifestyle medicine is really all about kind of addressing root causes.
00:18:17
Speaker
of chronic disease. So instead of, instead of being bandaid healthcare, care where we're just treating the symptoms, you know, we want to dig a little bit deeper and, you know, that's using things like movement and sleep hygiene and stress and strength training, all of these kinds of fundamental habits to, to build those up, to help support your overall health.
00:18:38
Speaker
And that's really where we see, you know, these reversal and remission of conditions like type two diabetes and cardiovascular disease. And for most people that you're working with, are they people who are struggling with these diseases or do you get people coming to you from a preventative point of view that that maybe is already healthy and is but like, I want to make sure I'm optimizing my health or is it really just, we focus on people who are dealing with diabetes and heart disease?
00:19:10
Speaker
Yes, all of the above. In fact, our company is El Nutra. That's kind of like the larger umbrella and we have a consumer division, Prolon. For anybody that's looking to kind of improve longevity, do some prevention, they can utilize the fasting mimicking diet there.
00:19:26
Speaker
And then we have L-Nutra Health. That's where I work and that's our medical arm where it's a disease management program. But within that, we have two great programs. There's a metabolic program and really anybody can fall into their cape. I have people that come in with prediabetes or maybe they just want to lose some weight and get in better healthy habits.
00:19:48
Speaker
and they know that they need support. We have people in there that just have high blood pressure or high cholesterol. And then the diabetes program, the more, the, our most complex program is a 12 month program. And that is specifically for people with type two diabetes. And, and we have people all ages, you know, 35 to 85 and in either of those programs. so age is not a ah limiting factor.
00:20:12
Speaker
You get great support in both. There's labs in both. So you can assess progress. You know, we use body composition scales, so we can also use that to kind of motivate you. It's so motivating when you see that visceral fat being driven down, but that you can keep your muscle mass up.
00:20:28
Speaker
And that that's really helpful. So those are our main two programs, and that's really a good place for anybody that's looking to prevent some disease, or maybe you're already showing, have a few biomarkers that you know you need to to be a little bit active and work on.
00:20:44
Speaker
Is it ever too late in relation to reversing chronic disease or in relation to age? I know you've said we work for with people from 35 all the way up, but is it less effective the older you get?
00:21:01
Speaker
I just wanted to interrupt the podcast for a moment to talk to you a little bit about Kate Hamilton Health online coaching. So we have two coaching options available.
00:21:12
Speaker
We have our elite coaching and we have our group coaching service. Our elite coaching service is bespoke individualized coaching, which will help you to finally break free from diet culture with one to one, anytime support from your coach and with access to a safe, supportive community.
00:21:31
Speaker
This is a higher ticket coaching option and the coaching is by application only. If you go to my website, KateHamiltonHealth.com, you will be able to apply for elite coaching through there and we will be in touch to organize a call and to get you up and running.
00:21:46
Speaker
In relation to our group coaching, our group coaching starts on the first Monday of every month. When it's full each month, we do close the doors. With the group, coaching is about building the habits, body and energy of the healthiest version of yourself and finally make it stick.
00:22:04
Speaker
We include personalized calories and portions, food lists, recipes, meal plan ideas, step goals, home or gym based workouts, depending on what you want.
00:22:15
Speaker
Changed every eight weeks. Mindset work, app access. So that's the Kate Hamilton Health app, which will be your hub for everything. Weekly yoga classes, WhatsApp group community, weekly group Q&A with myself, fun challenges, daily habits form, weekly self check-in. fortnightly check-ins with your coach, a library full of lifestyle guides, a library full of lessons, seminars, and all of this is updated regularly.
00:22:43
Speaker
We have weekly group Zoom calls with myself and the team, regular guest seminars where we get experts on to talk more to you about different topics that we need experts on for.
00:22:54
Speaker
And then we have in-person events twice a year that you will get at a major discount as being a member of the Kate Hamilton Health community. So as I said, this starts the first Monday of every month. If you go to my website, KateHamiltonHealth.com, you will see when the next group coaching intake is starting for you. So we close the doors as soon as that intake is full or the Monday before the group coaching starts. So usually that last Monday of the previous month.
00:23:25
Speaker
So if you head over to Kate Hamilton Health dot com, all of that information that I've talked through is on the website. You'll be able to book your spot for the next intake there. And I will chat to you all then.
00:23:40
Speaker
No, we've seen great results at all different ages. And yet we've seen great results with maybe the length of time that you have been struggling with something. You know, we have people that have had type two diabetes for 20 plus years and they've been on medication the whole time and they've tried diet after diet and and just not been successful or or they have been successful in the short term and as soon as they stop, you know everything goes back to the way it was before, including their weight and sometimes more is added on.
00:24:09
Speaker
We see success with people who have had diabetes 20 years and and still be able to come down off of a significant amount of their, whether it's insulin, whether they're on multiple medications,
00:24:20
Speaker
you know most people with type two diabetes are on at least two or more, some even six from other comorbidities too. So seeing improvement in those and and I know I've focused on diabetes meds, but we see people come down off of their blood pressure medication too and statins and things like that. so all of these kind of chronic diseases that are related to age and and behavior.
00:24:43
Speaker
Like this makes so much sense. And just from my own perspective, I love to hear when people don't need medication for things anymore or, you know, are able to reduce it down because I hate that we are being controlled people medication so much now, and I know it all has its place. it very much depends on what someone is going through and medically, you know, that's, but I just think, you know, there's so much we can do, particularly preventatively with lifestyle, but even just to hear that we don't have to, you know, I think a a lot of humans feel like when they're diagnosed with something, they lose the hope a little bit and it's like, okay, I surrender to this now. And that, but that to know that there's something you can do is, is really, really empowering.
Balancing Lifestyle Changes
00:25:22
Speaker
However, I also yeah just as as a nutrition coach, as ah as a personal trainer, a health coach, I preach a lot of balance because just from my experience of working with a lot of people that although like, it makes me a little bit skeptical about restrictive diets.
00:25:40
Speaker
And even with the science and the medicine behind it, like that, I i respect that, you know, the science behind it. But I find sometimes that even things that, you know, are prescribed by dietitians, and I mean this very respectfully, by dietitians and doctors can sometimes, when it translates to an ordinary person's lifestyle,
00:26:03
Speaker
although they know all the information and they know this is so super important and this means this for myself, my body, in their day-to-day lives, it's very hard for them to keep, even with coaching, without a little bit of balance. So my part was like my question here is,
00:26:24
Speaker
When someone does a fasting stint and then you do that, you bring the lifestyle medicine in and you get all these habits in place. like Is there strict rules or are these people able to be like, it's okay to have a bit of chocolate every now and again. It's okay to go out for dinner with your girls and have a glass of wine. Or, you know, like is is there balance there?
00:26:44
Speaker
Because I think sometimes what people are hearing from doctors and from dietitians, I don't mean yourself. I just mean in general, it can just be like, You need to do this. And it seems so unreachable for some people, if that makes sense.
00:26:58
Speaker
No, absolutely. And I'm right there with you. i believe in balance. In fact, in between fasts, we, you know, we encourage more of a pescetarian vegetarian diet, but people come in and have all different, they're everywhere. And we just help them kind of transition to make healthy habits, but nobody can be a saint all the time.
00:27:17
Speaker
In fact, food is one of life's enjoyment and you, we want to be able to have balance there. And that's really where you help people be sustainable. If they feel like, oh, okay, I can have that glass of wine and that's okay.
00:27:29
Speaker
I can have some chocolate here and there, but helping them to be able to find that balance. Sometimes people don't know what that could look like. And so being able to help them kind of curate that for themselves and not feel deprived, but also feel and more control. I think a lot of times people feel controlled by carbs or are by salty foods and processed foods. And so helping them find that we can incorporate some different things and you don't have to be perfect week after week. In fact, a lot of the science behind just the fasting mimicking diet, there are no changes in their day-to-day
00:28:08
Speaker
you know, life with eating habits and they just do the fast, you know, monthly. But of course we want to help people have long-term change and and be able to improve, optimize their health in between and move towards healthier diets that are also supportive of of reducing chronic disease.
00:28:26
Speaker
But yes, it is not about perfection. In fact, just this week I was telling One of my members, like practice is not about being perfect, but it's just about progress.
00:28:38
Speaker
Let's just kind of put some good habits into place to help you move forward, just to to make progress in that direction. So definitely not anything that's overwhelming or you have to, oh, everything changes today.
00:28:52
Speaker
You know, we don't want that. We want it to be this gradual where you feel empowered, you feel confident, And then you're wanting to continue on because it's doable. I think that's crucial. It's the wanting, isn't it? You need to want to do. You're not doing something because your dietitian tells you you have to do it. You're doing it because you want to.
00:29:11
Speaker
And I think if it is a case of, you know, we're talking about chronic disease, it's to make sure that it's not out of fear of the disease and that it's like that you want to feel a certain. It all comes back to like wanting to feel And what, ah like my experience, you know, anyone that I work with that, you know, might be kind of pre-diabetic or, you know, and their GPs would refer them to me like, you know, you need to work with a nutrition coach or whatever, you know, and a lot of what what gets people into that position in the first place, I find in relation to, you know, imbalance with food and overeating and maybe an inactive lifestyle is it comes down to emotional eating, stress and guilt.
00:29:52
Speaker
So,
Emotional Factors and Small Changes in Health
00:29:53
Speaker
yeah. I think what doesn't work for a lot of people when it comes to restriction is when they think they have to be perfect and then they can't be perfect because none of us are perfect.
00:30:03
Speaker
right But then they feel so incredibly guilty that they can't do it. They feel like a failure and then they just revert back. to the habits that that they've been living, which has put them into this position in the first place. And I think this is why people feel so trapped. It's such a deep rooted, complicated, emotional yes issue as on top of like all of the, you know, the stuff that is going on inside our body that you're talking about, it can really feel like an impossible journey for some people.
00:30:30
Speaker
Yes, no, it can. i think that's why it's so important to just start small. yeah to Start small, one meal, one habit at a time, you know, focus on adding nourishing foods without being restricting, you know, having support of ah a lifestyle coach or a dietitian or nutrition coach to help personalize, you know, the plan for you, provide you with some accountability.
00:30:55
Speaker
And I think that can really help it feel more manageable and something that you can fit into your life. Yeah. We also sometimes need to look at our lives, don't we as well? Like, it this is what I find. And I'm always really careful with this. this my I talk about this more in the podcast than I do really with my clients, because like you said, it has to be very step by step. yeah But if your life is so, so stressful and so hectic that it's making you sick or it's making you eat in a disordered way,
00:31:25
Speaker
Something needs to be done about the lifestyle. Like something needs to be done about the life, whether it's the job or the relationships or the, you know, the combination of it all. And that doesn't mean quit your job, leave your partner, just run away from your kids. It doesn't mean that, but it means as well as looking at your habits, your health habits, it's also looking at the other things because like, otherwise it again, you just trying to climb up that hill that you keep falling back down.
00:31:49
Speaker
Right, right. we can If we keep trying to do the same thing without really making changes, we just get so frustrated. You know, like, oh, nothing's happening for me, but you haven't, you're just doing the same kind of diet after diet. You're not really addressing some of those, like you mentioned, other causes like the stress or the lack of sleep or just setting yourself up for success with having the right types of foods in your house.
00:32:15
Speaker
you know, or whatever it might be that things that can have a big impact. Yes. All of those are so intertwined. And sometimes you have to kind of look through each of them to figure out. It's almost like being a detective sometimes, you know, working with, with someone to kind of figure out, okay, is this an area that, that could be contributing to these habits, you know, so that you you Again, a root cause.
00:32:38
Speaker
It's the same thing, addressing a root cause of what's going on. Definitely.
Nutrition Recommendations
00:32:42
Speaker
In relation to nutrition then, as a dietitian, I obviously would love to ask you this. So what do you recommend? like What are the do's and don'ts in relation to, if we're moving away from the topic of fasting and we're just talking about our day-to-day what do you recommend?
00:32:58
Speaker
And I know there's no one size fits all. So I'm asking you a very general question. I suppose if we break this into two questions, if we are someone who is seemingly healthy and we just want to live a healthy lifestyle, what kind of balance of macronutrients and micronutrients should we be having?
00:33:13
Speaker
Any do's or don'ts there? And then secondary to that, then if we are someone who is pre-diabetic or is diabetic, separate to fasting, what kind of nutritional, I suppose, what frameworks do we need to consider?
00:33:26
Speaker
Yes, no, I think, I think these are great questions. And in fact, I really would say the same for both really would say, why don't we try to shift from less animal products?
00:33:37
Speaker
So maybe less red meat incorporating foods that have good fatty acids in them that are heart protective, that are anti-inflammatory. So more fish. So cutting back on the saturated fats. That's really what I'm getting at from reducing animal products.
00:33:53
Speaker
incorporating more non-starchy vegetables of all different colors, just to help optimize micronutrients that we get. So more fiber, so it's better for our gut microbiota.
00:34:05
Speaker
I would include more foods like nuts, you know, that are, They are calorie dense, but they have some protein, they have fiber, they have healthy fats, are really good for our bodies and keeping us full.
00:34:17
Speaker
I would say, you know, more fruits that are not too high in sugar, so berries, and I love like color. You know, if i want us to include more a color in our diet and less processed foods, less simple sugars from beverages, less processed foods from lot of boxed types of meals, a lot of convenience foods.
00:34:38
Speaker
and just stick to more whole foods, more plant-based types of foods um in your diet. And hydration is so important. Sometimes we don't talk about that a lot, but staying hydrated with water.
00:34:50
Speaker
I think that's really, it was a good diet for anybody, whether it's you have prediabetes or if you're just looking for prevention or maintenance is to really shift from too much saturated fat, less simple sugar, more fiber,
00:35:07
Speaker
more healthy fats in our diet, not be afraid of fat. A lot of people are afraid of fat. Yeah, no, I love that you said that. So really we are kind of talking Mediterranean style diet. Yes, absolutely. Yes. Yeah, I know. And sometimes people are like, if they hear a diet has a name, they're like, oh no, if a diet has a name, it's a bad one.
00:35:23
Speaker
And like Mediterranean diet is like health based. Like it doesn't have to be called the Mediterranean diet, but like it's literally basically what you've just described, obviously. In relation to coming from like perspective of anyone listening who is listening to a lot of personal trainers online, that's, you know this gym culture and everyone is talking about, you need more protein, eat more protein. And everyone everyone's like stuffing protein bars in their face and protein powder and all of this stuff. And you know, someone who goes to the gym, I do like to try and make sure I eat enough protein, know not to an obsessive amount, but I know that a lot of people are misguided with how much protein they need.
00:35:57
Speaker
particularly if they're strength training, particularly if they're a woman over the age of 30, yeah, from 30 onwards, isn't it? We start to lose our muscle mass. So how much protein and is it possible to get enough protein through the diet that you've mentioned?
00:36:11
Speaker
Yes, it is possible to get enough protein through more of a plant-based diet for sure. And that's something, you know, working with a coach to help you figure out those foods and kind of combinations to get there is it really key.
00:36:24
Speaker
But yes, I mean, we we recommend adequate protein for age. you have to take into consideration goals. I think personalized nutrition is really um important. So if somebody is trying to add on muscle mass, then we wanna help support that with, you know maybe you go to the gym and you do some strength training, and then we wanna follow up with maybe 25 to 30 grams of protein to help support muscle synthesis, you know helping them with with what their goals are with individualized nutrition, but you're absolutely right. Everybody gets inundated with, you know, more protein is better.
00:37:00
Speaker
it solves all your problems. But in fact, that's not true because too much protein is not stored as muscles in our body. You know, it can it's still be stored as fat. If it's too much, it's extra than what our bodies really need and can process. So I think it's important to have balance in our diet to assess what your goals are, make sure we're meeting your needs.
00:37:23
Speaker
As we get older, we do need a little bit more protein too because we lose that lean mass at a more accelerated rate. And so, you know, having a coach to kind of give you some guidance there with what that looks like for you is really important.
00:37:38
Speaker
And i what I've noticed with people that, you know, they go hell for another with the protein is suddenly they have digestive issues and they're like, why so bloated? Why am I so backed up? And I'm like, are you eating any fiber?
00:37:49
Speaker
And it's like, oh, I forgot. I'm supposed to eat carbohydrates and vegetables as well as my protein. And then, you know, they increase that and then they're like, why do I still feel like crap? And then you're like, are you drinking enough water? It's like, and I always call that the magic trio. I'm like protein, fiber, water. Like you have to remember the fiber and water if you are increasing your protein.
00:38:07
Speaker
It's to not take it to such obsessive levels and to, two you know, like the one question I get so much from people is how do I increase my protein in my diet? And I'm just like, eat a little bit more of your protein source in your meals. Or, you know, people are like, give me some some protein snack ideas. was like, you don't need protein snacks.
00:38:24
Speaker
You need a little bit more protein source, whatever that is for you in your breakfast, your lunch and your dinner yeah rather than like ye having to have a protein yogurt or having to have a protein bar or what are your thoughts on? Because those can be really processed too. I was just going to say that a lot of these protein bars and shakes You know, you still have to look at those labels because they oftentimes can masquerade as a healthy option for you, but they can be chock full of all kinds of unnatural ingredients.
00:38:54
Speaker
And so that's why we really do push for more whole foods, more plant-based types of foods as much as possible. Yeah. Because if something says protein on the box, they're marketing to you.
00:39:05
Speaker
So it's like, yeah, then there may be good protein in it, but have a look at the ingredients. Make a decision on it yourself. Absolutely. Same with, them I would say the same, you know, to a lot of my patients that maybe they are vegetarian and they're like, I'm, I'm doing, I'm already eating really healthy.
00:39:19
Speaker
and But I never stop there. Like I want to dig a little bit because sometimes they're eating a ton of processed vegetarian. Processed vegetarian stuff. Yeah. So it's it's still so important to to have an understanding of what you're putting into your body.
00:39:33
Speaker
And I see this in Ireland now. There's a lot of like, you know, vegan culture it has suddenly risen in Ireland in recent years. But our supermarkets are just filled with all these vegan products. It's like vegan sausages and vegan, I don't know. Brownies.
00:39:47
Speaker
Yeah, vegan brownies, all of these stuff. And like, even if we bring it back to the protein products and we're looking at like protein cereal bars or protein pasta I've seen, which actually, by the way, has the same amount of protein as normal pasta. I looked at the labels, but that's besides point. All of these things that processed.
00:40:03
Speaker
I mean, if you enjoy a protein bar, Have it as a treat. But like personally, I would prefer to have some Cadburys, like chocolate. but Like I prefer to have some real chocolate myself personally, if I'm going to have some sugary treats rather than having a protein bar and think I'm being healthy.
00:40:19
Speaker
Now it's so important to be able to know how to differentiate there because it is very, very misleading. Yeah. What are your thoughts on protein powder? Like, is there a place for it within a diet?
00:40:33
Speaker
I know protein powder is processed, but are there some that can be better than others or is it something that you just don't recommend?
Role of Protein and Supplements
00:40:40
Speaker
No, we we recommend it depending on what somebody's goals are, because if somebody needs extra protein to support them,
00:40:47
Speaker
and they're struggling to get that, then I think there are some good quality proteins out there. In fact, we we actually have a protein too, an L protein that's a vegan protein powder that can be used. So I think, you know, I always encourage first,
00:41:03
Speaker
you know, using real foods, but if you need help getting there or, you know, maybe you need, sometimes with our protein powder, like we have recipes that we'll send to, to help incorporate that.
00:41:13
Speaker
So it's not just a drink, but, know, maybe put it with in a chia pudding and some berries, you know, ways that you can use it to help you meet your needs. So I don't think it's out of the question. You can't do it or anything like that. I think, you know, always push for whole foods first, but I think it can have a place on our diet.
00:41:31
Speaker
to supplement a diet, I suppose. And this actually brings me into this nice point then around supplements, because this is another question I get asked so much. What supplements do you recommend? What, like, what supplements should I be taking? I'm like, just fix your diet. I'm like, just eat more color. But I know that there are certain, especially, you know, I work with a lot of women that are going through perimenopause. Sometimes there are supplements that are particularly helpful.
00:41:59
Speaker
yeah for What would you recommend if we we're talking female specific now at the minute, are there any supplements that you think that females should be taking? You know, I don't really push supplements too much. Just like you said a minute ago, I just really push for the diet first.
00:42:12
Speaker
If it seems there are areas where they're lacking, maybe it's foods that they don't like, that they avoid, you know, for various reasons, then I would recommend a good quality multivitamin to help, you know, supplement some of those micronutrients.
00:42:25
Speaker
There are good supplements that help, you know, probiotics if needed to help too, to support the gut microbiota. A lot of the good kind of omega-3 fatty acids, you see a lot of people taking fish oil,
00:42:36
Speaker
But those are really the ones I stick to. Now, if I know somebody is taking a medication, for instance, but and this one comes up because a lot of people I see have diabetes, maybe they're on metformin.
00:42:47
Speaker
And if they're on that chronically, I know they can be deficient in vitamin B12. So things like that, really looking at their whole kind of clinical picture, what's going on to make those suggestions, but absolutely first focus on good quality nutrition.
00:43:03
Speaker
Yeah. So really supplementation is ah an individual thing with your doctor or your, your dietitian. You're like, what are you actually deficient in? What do you actually need that you're not getting from your food or because, because of medication that there, there is no general need for it for unless it's specific.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yes, I agree. Absolutely. yeah What about magnesium? You know, a lot of people are using magnesium and and have deficiencies in magnesium too, or use it to help maybe with with gut function or sleep, especially as you're talking about the perimenopausal menopausal women that maybe are struggling with some sleep at night.
00:43:39
Speaker
So I think that is one that also can be very beneficial to include if that's something, you know, if you're having some symptoms that may warrant that. What foods are high in magnesium if we didn't want to supplement or we couldn't afford to supplement?
00:43:52
Speaker
I think it's important to include, first of all, a variety of foods into your diet. But yes, I would say, know, that's where some of the protein foods are important that you need to have. And then A lot of our vegetables are important too for magnesium.
00:44:08
Speaker
Are you thinking about specifically like magnesium citrate or glycinate or what? I was thinking more glycinate. So I think a lot of the goods, you know, oats can be good for a lot of people with magnesium. Brazil nuts can have magnesium and selenium. Spinach are good options for you too. Chia seeds.
00:44:28
Speaker
are good quality and a lot of times people use those in a smoothie or pudding, things like that. um Or in their oats, yeah, so they're getting plenty oats. Or in their oats too, yes. um Even avocado and even some dark chocolate too. So they're definitely,
00:44:42
Speaker
a variety of foods that you can use to get you know your magnesium. And actually I learned somewhere, and this maybe be it's due to the magnesium and in it as well, or there maybe there's other compounds in it, that oats can actually make at a really nice evening meal, like a supper, because they can help you sleep.
00:44:59
Speaker
I read this somewhere and I found that really interesting, but you know the way sometimes if people struggle with late night snacking, rather than having like loads chocolate bars or whatever that, you know, making a nice bowl of oats with some seeds in it and maybe a bit of dark chocolate in and create a nice kind of little porridge bowl.
00:45:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. reading likes yes Salmon is a good, I was just trying to think of other foods too. Salmon is a good source too. Pumpkin seeds are a good source of magnesium.
00:45:26
Speaker
There's lots of options, you know, and think we're just so used to, we just feel like, oh, I'll just take it in a pill form. and not have to worry about my diet. It's so important to have that variety.
00:45:38
Speaker
Thank you so much for all of this insight in relation to this, because it's so good to hear from a dietician as well on these different things that are quite, like I suppose, trending a lot now and people are taking in a lot of information online. And I know a lot of women that listen to my podcast are confused by things they're hearing online and It can be a little bit overwhelming for people.
00:45:57
Speaker
And I just love that you're like, eat more color. I'm like, yes, get as much variety, get as much color in as possible.
Reducing Aging with Dietary Changes
00:46:03
Speaker
In relation to less animal products or like less meat, what is the thought behind that? Is that really due to saturated of fat?
00:46:12
Speaker
Like, would you be saying that like, we really should be minimizing chicken and turkey as well? Or is it really just more red meat we're talking about? yeah First, I start with with more of the red meat because of the saturated fat.
00:46:24
Speaker
And then you know maybe limiting some of the the chicken and turkey, especially the skin and things like that. But I think those can it can be included. And even with the red meat, you know I have clients that they don't want to give it up completely. So we may you know limit it to twice a month or something like that. But but it's really for that saturated fat.
00:46:44
Speaker
And then You know, IGF-1, I mentioned that nutrient sensing pathway earlier that's associated with aging. So when we overdo it on the protein, a lot of times we're, where you know, simulating, overstimulating some of those nutrient sensing pathways and that are related to aging. So that's why we try to cut back on those some and focus more on the plant-based protein. So again, balance.
00:47:09
Speaker
As we mentioned earlier, we try to find good balance and shift towards Mediterranean diet for kind of ultimate ah to follow So interesting. So if we're consuming too much protein, particularly in the form of animal products, we could actually be aging ourselves.
00:47:25
Speaker
Yes, if it's too much. And, you know, we go to restaurants and the portion sizes are just out of control. You know, it's a 12 ounce ribeye. It's a huge porter, you know, all of these huge portion sizes that over time you kind of, you just keep eating, you clean your plate or you kind of adapt to think that that is really what you need. But it's, it's, it's way too much, way too much.
00:47:50
Speaker
Yeah. So really as well, looking at our portion sizes. Yes. It's a really important to look at those portion sizes too, because there can be too much of a good thing too. Yeah.
00:48:01
Speaker
It's hard to overeat broccoli. I'll, you know, i think we would agree on that, but, but yeah, some of these foods, you know, we just have to be mindful of how much we have. You know, I usually try to keep things simple when I'm explaining it to people like, let's just try to do like a quarter of your plate, be your protein source then and a quarter of your plate be a healthier starch, like a quinoa or a barley or an oat and then and 50% be non-starchy vegetables, whether that's a big salad with tomatoes and cucumbers, maybe its there's peppers, maybe there's spinach or broccoli or you know any of the other beautiful colored vegetables there to help support and provide you with fullness and that fiber that we need.
00:48:41
Speaker
Yeah, so that you're bulking up your mouths with with the non-starchy vegetables. They're never the problem. ah so And in fact, you know, a lot of people sometimes don't know that one of the benefits besides the ah micronutrients is that that fiber slows down digestion.
00:48:56
Speaker
and so it helps to keep you fuller longer so that you're not just grabbing a quick piece of bread or a little bit of um rice or maybe some cereal and you don't have it coupled with anything else. And then 30 minutes later, you're still hungry.
00:49:11
Speaker
You're just not being satiated. And it's helping with your gut health, which is helping with your hormone health, which is helping with and your immunity and yeah all of those things.
00:49:21
Speaker
Absolutely. yeah which is all going to help with cravings as well, which I know is also a huge issue for people. So I suppose like I was going to ask you about food as medicine, but I think we've pretty much covered that. Is there anything else in relation to food as medicine that that you think we should know?
00:49:36
Speaker
no I think, you know, we can use food therapeutically, you know, choosing good ingredients, choosing dietary patterns that actively promote healing and prevent disease. So, and that just goes, you know,
00:49:50
Speaker
goes beyond nutrition for just sustenance, but it's about kind of influencing that microbiome composition that we were talking about and systemic inflammation. So food truly can be a tool to optimize our health. And the fasting is also a tool to help us optimize our health.
00:50:06
Speaker
Yeah. Do we have to fast? You know, I think you can have good nutrition. It's a great question, Kate. You can have good nutrition and and be doing a really good job of maintaining your health.
00:50:17
Speaker
Exercise is key. All of these things are really important. The fasting does help reduce biologic age, the age of ourselves and being more efficient and effective. So for somebody that's healthy, for you or even for myself, I do maybe be three to four cycles of fasting.
00:50:35
Speaker
per year just to optimize kind of cellular cleanup and these misfolded proteins that are in our bodies and broken cellular components and things like that to help clean that up. So I do think it optimizes your health.
00:50:47
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. That's so interesting to know. suppose before we finished up, I've heard you mentioned the word and telehealth.
Telehealth and Remote Coaching Benefits
00:50:56
Speaker
Yes. What is telehealth? Because this is this is a new word to me. Okay.
00:51:01
Speaker
Yes. You know, telehealth, I feel like has really expanded care across, you know, all different kind of bridging that geographical barrier to where, you know, I see people all over, all over the country.
00:51:15
Speaker
Just kind of like you and I are talking like this type online, like it's online coaching. Yes. Online coaching, virtual coaching, are you getting to see them, you get to know them, you have that relationship.
00:51:28
Speaker
But it's not in person. So it's convenient. I think it's like a convenience factor. You can be in your own setting. And so there's a comfort too for many people that just helps to give you that accessibility.
00:51:43
Speaker
And you get to chat to people across the world like we're doing right now, which is amazing. I love it. But I've never heard it called telehealth before. Now some other people listen to me like, Kate, come on, have you never heard that? But I've never heard it. But basically it's, yeah, it's what I do then. It's like online coaching, basically. Online consulting.
00:51:58
Speaker
Right. And, you know, some people, of course, they live, you know, in a city, but a lot of people don't and they're in more rural areas and even under underserved areas. And so it gives them access to specialized care when it may not have been possible before. So there's lots of benefits.
00:52:16
Speaker
Cool. So the company then that you work for, L Nutri Health, you provide meal plans, products, coaching, like nutrition, coaching, yeahing and Yes, we do. So in our diabetes program, we actually provide physician overseeing too. So we partner with a telehealth physician group. And so they approve a person into the program, look at their labs, look at their medication. And then that RD coach is there to support them, empower them, give them guidance, both during the fast and then in between.
00:52:46
Speaker
Because over time people get more metabolically flexible. They understand the fasting and that piece is easy, but they need help in between and there's 25 days and that support. So, um but we have it structured so that every couple of cycles, we do labs that physician sees them again and and decides, Hey, can we cut back on some of this medication?
00:53:06
Speaker
Can, that's what we're trying to do. It's not about improving someone's health at the cost of how much medication we can give them to make those numbers look better. It's about digging deeper, helping them improve their overall health and doing so with less medication if we can. yeah but no That's amazing. So it's like a whole panel of professionals helping and guiding you to. too Right.
00:53:28
Speaker
It's that team, team approach to overall health. And in the metabolic program, there's not the physician oversight, but there is that support with the coach that's yours, that you can communicate with anytime, not just during those two telehealth visits, but through our app, through our our EMR, which is our electronic medical record. You can send text and and we'll exchange, you know, send sometimes like video links of what to expect this day or meal plans that personalized to them, or maybe just education on tell me what are plant proteins.
00:54:00
Speaker
and Tell me what looks like a normal amount of protein for a meal. People sometimes take pictures of what they're eating and send them to me. They're like, hey, Ashley, is this okay? Is this a good meal for me? So, you know that telehealth gives you a lot of flexibility to help that person.
00:54:15
Speaker
It's amazing. So anyone listening, if they want to reach out to you and find out more about what you do, where's the best place to reach you? Yes, you can reach us at l-nutra, N-U-T-R-A, health.com.
00:54:30
Speaker
Okay. Amazing. And I will share that in the show notes. Or you can just Google Nutri Health also. Yeah. If we Google L Nutri Health, it'll come up and they can reach you guys through the website and find out more.
00:54:42
Speaker
Absolutely. There's a little chat bot on there and it'll say, Christy. Christy is fantastic. She will help and you know answer any questions that they have, inform them about the programs and and just help them to find the best place for them.
00:54:55
Speaker
Thank you so much for this conversation. And I know I've challenged you on loads of different areas as well, just, but it's so interesting for me to, to, you know, to get to talk to a dietitian like yourself and find out all these different things. And it's been a really interesting conversation. So thank you so much for sharing your expertise and your approach with us all. I do appreciate it.
00:55:13
Speaker
Thank you, Kate. It was a pleasure. Anytime.
00:55:19
Speaker
I just want to say thank you so much for listening to the podcast. I would just ask for one thing from you. If at all possible, could you make sure that you subscribe to the podcast? It really does make such a difference.
00:55:31
Speaker
If there's a particular episode that you've enjoyed, please do share it in your WhatsApp groups. Share it on your stories. Tag myself and the guest. in your stories. All of these things really do help to grow the podcast. And obviously, if there's anything you'd like to reflect on, please do leave a comment.
00:55:48
Speaker
It would mean the world to me and I will see you on the next one.