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The Stephen Kenny Legacy: Unqualified or Underappreciated?
34 Plays1 year ago
Join us on a deep dive into the polarizing tenure of Stephen Kenny as the manager of the Ireland men's football team.
Whether you believe Stephen Kenny was a visionary ahead of his time or an ill-equipped manager for the task, we will navigate the complexities of his legacy and attempt to answer the burning question: Was Stephen Kenny truly unqualified or vastly underappreciated in his role as the manager of the Ireland men's football team?
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm not into podcasts Back of the net
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Not A Pundit podcast. It has finally happened.
Stephen Kenny's Departure Announcement
00:00:21
Speaker
Stephen Kenny is gone from the Ireland job. In a statement this evening by the FAI, they thanked him and his staff for their service, saying that having reviewed the Euro 2024 qualification campaign in its entirety and recognizing how difficult the group was and the results needed to realize our goal of qualification for the tournament were not achieved.
00:00:43
Speaker
The board agrees that now is the right time for change ahead of the friendly matches in March and June 2024 and the next Nations League campaign starting in 2020, September 2024. And this was following a meeting and presentation to the board by CEO Jonathan Hill and Director of Football Mark Kammen.
Analyzing Kenny's Tenure and Legacy
00:01:02
Speaker
The FBI board has decided that Stephen Cady's contract for the Men's Senior National Team will not be renewed following the conclusion of the qualification process.
00:01:13
Speaker
So this evening we are going to be looking at Stephen Kenney's tenure and his legacy. Is he underappreciated? Was he unqualified for the job? And we have brought in the full and
00:01:32
Speaker
Hall of Fame worthy stable that we have in not upon the towers. We have the confident Conor Glennon. We have the reliable Robbie Redmond and the noble Nathan Byrne and myself the lowly Cillian Ginnity. Lads, how are we doing?
00:01:52
Speaker
We are all good, my friend. Nice introduction there. Couldn't be happier on this merry eve of jubilation for the Irish national team. I'm sure Robbie is celebrating there.
00:02:05
Speaker
No, I'm actually sad kidding. I'm sad for Stephen Kenny.
Ireland's Performance Under Kenny
00:02:11
Speaker
I'm sad for Irish football and I'm just glad this is over. Someone put out their misery and I'm also glad that there's no more international bikes now till March and no more competitive Ireland matches till next September. So who knows if you ever get to see all of them in a match again. So I'm ready to move on after we talk about this, of course, but I'm just relieved it's all over.
00:02:34
Speaker
Nathan, what was your initial reaction to the news? The poor guy was put out of his misery. Um, that was my initial reaction was probably six games too late and, and he's been, he's been freed. Um, yeah, I think the painful thing in the last couple of games has been, it's sort of like a guy that's properly drowning in the job. And yeah, I think I'm happy that now he can move on and Ireland can move on and everyone can move on. So yeah, that's where I'm at.
00:03:04
Speaker
Connor, what do you think the logic was for keeping Kenny around for the last couple of games? Because qualification for practically the last six months has been beyond our reach, if not mathematically, but realistically. Was there any benefit to keeping him around for that extra time, like Dead Man Walking?
00:03:26
Speaker
I don't think so. I think the way they were looking at it was a couple of ways, I suppose. The first of all is they can keep the powder off their nose and they don't have to make a decision and they look like, oh, we gave him every chance. That's one angle on it. I think the second angle is I don't believe this to be true, but in a way it could be give him a chance to sell his worth for his next job. Could he pull off a couple of wins?
00:03:52
Speaker
And by the end of it or at least some decent showings, which we all know we didn't And I think the final one was they just didn't have anyone to replace him And they didn't want to go into that merry-go-round again and of another interim manager Bringing the big mic discussion. I think they were just kind of trying to control the media and like Nathan said like jokes aside as I said at the top where I'm jubilant about it like I think everyone feels sorry for him at this point, you know, it's it's it's been a
Critique of Qualification Tactics
00:04:21
Speaker
As Nathan said the last six probably but definitely the last three years It's just been bleak and no one wants to see a man of his vintage crying on national television as much as the deplorable football we've been playing Robbie and should we really expect more from this qualification process like Well, were we ever going to get to the Euros?
00:04:44
Speaker
See this is the thing and this is where Steven Kenney and maybe a lot of fans, not yourself Kenney, but a lot of fans might get confused. The qualification process started last year with the Nations League. So we were in a group of equal quality teams ranked around us, Scotland, Ukraine and who was the other one? Scotland, Ukraine. Give me two seconds. You want me to cut this out.
00:05:07
Speaker
Yeah, Scotland, Ukraine, Armenia, basically. So yeah, we were the qualification group with those guys. So they were ranked around us. We finished toward in that group. We lost to all three teams. If we had to finish second, or sorry, fourth in that group, because we beat Scotland at home. If we hadn't even got a draw away to Ukraine, or draw a home with Ukraine, and beat Armenia away, we would have topped that move. Kenny would have now have a playoff in his back pocket. So this group,
00:05:35
Speaker
basically Kenny was landing in this group which people said he's unlucky it's kind of shows how all Kenny really has the last while is the narrative that's all he's been able to kind of because the results on the pitch and the performances don't do him any favor but he's been trying to control the narrative a lot the last maybe six months or a year and he's I think he's seen the writing on the wall but
00:05:56
Speaker
Qualifications started a year ago and I was at those games and we were beaten comfortably by teams on our level so you can have no complaints then when he ends up in a group with Netherlands and France and even Greece who are probably one of the better fourth place teams so it's it's ultimately his fault really that we didn't we had a chance to beat teams on our level and we didn't and that's where he's lost this he hasn't lost his job because he lost to France and Netherlands because we're always gonna lose those games so
00:06:25
Speaker
I don't think you can have any complaints. I know it became one of Irish media's kind of favourite headlines in the last couple of weeks but can we still qualify for the Euros now that we've lost to the Netherlands?
00:06:38
Speaker
Robbie? No, we're goners. The whole thing is over.
Reasons for Euro Qualification Failure
00:06:41
Speaker
The whole thing is done. And the playoffs have been made and Greece will play Kazakhstan for a place at a tournament like that. That's the level. So basically 21 teams qualify directly.
00:06:55
Speaker
Sorry, 20 teams called it by the record. If you're Germany, you're getting host, then you're going to have three teams from the playoffs. So there's basically, let's say, 30 odd teams who are in contention or qualify for the Euros, 54. And Ireland are one of those other 20 that aren't in contention with San Marino and the likes. So it's utterly
00:07:17
Speaker
absolutely brutal. It's just the same thing over and over and over again you know it's getting bloody old at this point miss it's like you go into tournaments going I'm not gonna even pretend I'm gonna end up at this tournament you just know we're not going like you know yeah so we managed to qualify not qualify a tournament that is becoming harder and harder to not qualify to Nathan can we take any positives out of this qualification like roundabout that we've endured
00:07:47
Speaker
and to be honest I know I think it comes down to the hard facts that yeah we were in a group with France and Netherlands but I think as football fans especially football fans that support Ireland as you can separate the performances from the results and
00:08:04
Speaker
I don't think there was many performances that you could look at and go like that was a good performance so I think that was really what put the nail in Kenny's coffin was the performances but yeah like as soon as that group came out it was always going to be be hardship to get to get to the tournament but yeah it is annoying seeing the not like the lower ranked teams that are still in contention and we're not we're not there you know what i mean it feels like
00:08:34
Speaker
We're going to be watching the Euros in the summer, but we won't be cheering on, cheering on Ireland. Do we have any confirmation about, is it just Kenny that's gone or is his staff gone as well? Because both FAI representatives in the statement did thank the staff, but it was only head coach position has gone up. I tell you, I was about to say he'll either hold on for dear life and find a way to survive the apocalypse, but that dude's gone, I'd imagine.
00:09:03
Speaker
I think O'Shea will stick around because O'Shea is kind of a company man. He was already in the system before Kenny. So I think he'll be sticking around. You never know. I agree. Gus Playette might give him Andrew's a job. Yeah. But just on going to recency bias, Connor, you were live tweeting the New Zealand friendly on behalf of the NAP guys.
00:09:33
Speaker
It really didn't look good. You had a good world ranking tweet about the opposition that we were being, at worst, a best case scenario being matched by, worst case scenario being that we were actually outclassed by at times.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, for my sins, I was live tweeting that one. It was definitely an awful watch. And, you know, to be honest with you, I kind of looked at it after about 15 minutes ago and I kind of was just watching how New Zealand played more than anything and kind of seeing how they navigated.
00:10:08
Speaker
going back to the start that you were saying I think they're around a hundred and third in the world or 108 something like that and you know we're playing teams like that and getting shown up drawing one all okay look these things happen you can you know you can
00:10:23
Speaker
concede the 90th minute and getting lucky but it wasn't that you know this was a performance where if we were up against even the likes of Sam Marino i think could have beaten us last like last night it really was awful football um
00:10:39
Speaker
Mikey Johnson had some good play. I know we were kind of chatting about him in the Nada Ponda group and I'm sure that'll come to the fore at some point, but you know, outside that was a fairly uninspired performance. And yeah, I mean, you know, you look around the New Zealand team and I mean, I think Singh and Garbut were about their best players. Chris Wood's decent, you know, I'm going to have the black and white lenses on, but when he's your captain, you got slight worries in your team.
00:11:06
Speaker
But yeah, all in all, really poor performance. But I mean, I don't know what we expected going into it. We were very much just there because we had to be there. And even in fairness to Kenny, I think, even if he hadn't been in the dugout for that game, I think we will play the exact same match. I think
00:11:23
Speaker
We really need to completely rebuild the infrastructure that is the FAI. I'm not even talking to C-suite people. I just mean from grassroots up Ireland, Irish football needs serious change and it's not going to happen
FAI Infrastructure and Grassroots Program Overhaul
00:11:39
Speaker
in the short term. This is a long-term rebuild, I think. Nathan, is this where we fall into that like 103 in the world is
00:11:48
Speaker
genuinely putting it up to us albeit a friendly and a friendly where our managers gonna be going but like we're meant to be in the 50s in the world's ranking like is this what we have to get used to are we gonna like are we gonna be coming up against the likes of I don't know bloody American Samoa and kind of having to double check our homework before doing so
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah, it is extremely worrying, specifically the part where you hear people go, oh, Nazeetum are good, Nazeetum weren't good, we made them look good. I didn't see anything that showed that they were a great team or anything of that kind.
00:12:27
Speaker
we've got to the point where even on days where McLean's hanging up the international boots could be Kenny's final game. It's like we can't even get up out of bed to beat New Zealand, you know what I mean? So I think that just shows the level we're at and I think we're at a point where
00:12:44
Speaker
if we don't get our next manager correct and I know it's a hard thing it's like football in Ireland could be looking at a very tough tough time like you know another three year period I know it was New Zealand but you see the attendance of the Aviva the other night like it's it hurts the eyes like and so I think another three years we could be in a world of her
00:13:09
Speaker
Robbie, you were covering Ireland extensively before Kenny came around. You've covered him extensively throughout his tenure. Have we gotten worse or is this par for the course from what he took over from?
00:13:29
Speaker
I think it can become much easier to be. So like I was looking back to just notes, like word docs you just take when you're watching matches and every time you do type like, aren't these to play against? Gaps in midfield. Like so it definitely became easier to be, but I also think like people have probably lost sight of the context of what the push was to appoint Steven Kenney. It happened because this is five years ago. The world is a very different place, but
00:13:54
Speaker
Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane, the team was going nowhere. Not only were they going nowhere, they weren't being coached properly. The players weren't being told what formation to play in. They weren't working on set pieces. They kept conceding the same goal over and over. We lost 5-1 to Denmark and Dublin. We lost 4-1 away to Wales and Cardiff. We were terrible and we lost Rice, we lost Grealish.
00:14:17
Speaker
The idea was that Kenny was like this successful League of Ireland manager who was successful in Europe and it was never this idea that he would be this like Irish Pep Guardiola. I don't know where that idea came from but he bought into it and he appeared to believe it and so we spent the fourth year of him
00:14:34
Speaker
having like Shane Duffy, whoever, playing, trying to play ball from the back, but he's totally not capable of doing that. Like, and he had like, he tried James McCarty, he's like the pivot type player in midfield or, or Connor Herahan, like these guys aren't good enough. And we went from managers talking down the level of the players to talking them up to the point that it was borderline ridiculous. Like, were you thinking now of how some of these players were hyped up, like Adam Iida, Troy Parra,
00:15:03
Speaker
Jason Knight, what the heck do I do on a pitch other than run around? He doesn't really play football. I don't see what Kenny saw in these guys and he very much bought into this idea that he was the kind of saviour and earlier he had to be the one to change the style.
00:15:18
Speaker
the management of the international team doesn't change the style of the whole country. That happens on the ground and the manager comes in at the end of the production line and the style of play never mattered. So the people who defended them and still defend them, they were getting it all wrong. They were looking at it backwards. It was never about how we played. It was never, can you say stuff like, oh, we now place an emphasis on technique and skill. I'm like, why?
00:15:44
Speaker
What are you placing emphasis on winning? I could say I'm placing emphasis on being a billionaire but I'm not a billionaire. The players don't have a technical skill. That's nothing against it. That's not Stephen Kinney's fault. That's a production matter going forward or back. It's being pragmatic.
00:16:02
Speaker
Then he had decent coaches with him. We got a bit of an upturn like Anthony Barry who was now at Bayern Munich. There was a definite upturn there. He kind of downloaded the tactic that Chelsea would play in this 3-4 tree and it was getting him a couple of results and 0-0 at home to Portugal. We almost beat them away, 1-1 at home to Serbia. But people forget, because it was Jordan Calder, at one point he ordered him at 11 hours of scoring a goal under Stephen Kenny.
00:16:32
Speaker
Bleak as hell isn't it? One thing that I think going back to your piece on technique Rob is that like I think that stems from his time in the 21s because that kind of emphasis is more on the underage game. I think he was used to having players that you know have a bit of ability and he can coax it out of them and develop them and improve that technique and
00:16:54
Speaker
To be fair, in his 21s time, he was good, but when you're bringing that into guys who are anywhere from 24 to 34, you just can't come in with that approach, you know? No. And then the jirthing, Katie, that he's saying is that we brought so many players through. And I'm like, of course you did. Like, what are you going to do? Play Paul McGrath? Like, or Hayden Beatty? Like, these guys are ancient. Like, Glenn Reeland's not being kept out of team by Josh Colin. Glenn Reeland's finished. Like, he's not. So who are these people who
00:17:20
Speaker
went before that Kenny had to brush his side to bring through the new young blood. They don't exist like there was a gap and there was no one like Jeff Hendrick. He played Jeff Hendrick for probably a 20-30 matches like because I was at most of them. He played Conner Hurrah and all these guys played and they weren't good enough. So it wasn't that he was bringing these through. He will say that and he'll cling to that but ultimately like his in-game management was what let him down and this is where
00:17:44
Speaker
Not existing like that's a car and I remember watching matches like I remember not Luxembourg match at home in during the pandemic Freezing cold and we lost one nail empty stadium and I'm like, oh god, like this is not
00:17:59
Speaker
But this is one of the things still is that like Luxembourg, whenever people want to say about them, they're now a good team.
Team Progress Concerns Amidst Global Improvements
00:18:08
Speaker
Like they are on the verge of qualifying and they're competitive at this level, Nathan. And like, I'm starting to kind of wonder, have we sprinted to stand still while everybody has been able to sprint to get ahead?
00:18:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's definitely a good angle. The thing that I struggle with and I've always struggled with, specifically with international football is, especially with a team at Ireland's level, it's like, okay, Stephen Kenny comes in, he wants to play this nice football and he speaks about it and it's sort of like the thing that he uses to wow people over. But a lot of the team is made up by players that are battling relegation or, you know, playing in the championship. It's like,
00:18:51
Speaker
these players don't play this on a week-to-week basis and then they go away with Ireland and at maximum, all you get is a week with them and it's like how are you going to teach these players how to play that type of football in a week period at a time and it's like yeah
00:19:07
Speaker
I think with international football, and specifically the standard that Ireland's at, it's like you have to take what you got, your level, and transfer that into a way that gets results. And I think that is just pragmatic football. As much as we don't like it, I'd much rather be winning than going, oh, look at us. We can press here. We can do this. We can play a nicer style of football. I think you've got to take into consideration the level that these players are at and what they play on a week-to-week basis.
00:19:36
Speaker
I've been here on a week-to-week basis. He's not playing fancy football. He's playing to stay in the Premier League, you know what I mean?
00:19:45
Speaker
I struggle with the direction, I really do. You sometimes need the Tony Pueller style of football, I just grind them out, you know? Yeah, they've been asking the wrong questions all along, we've been focused on the wrong things, like the reason why I pushed for Kenny in 2018 was because I would watch them doc and watch them in Europe and you'd hear stuff like about them, like do you work well coach? Like you're like all right, well there's a guy, he's Irish, he's passionate,
00:20:10
Speaker
And it would mean a lot to him. And we can't go down this old British manager route of Martin O'Neill anymore, British style manager, because that didn't work. Kiv Kenny a try. But it was almost like all I was looking for was him to coach the team. Like the team under O'Neill was in coach. That's the truth. Like I'm going one day over to the FBI for a press conference and like the latter just kicked the ball down for a couple of minutes. And then half an hour later, Martin O'Neill will be in for his press conference.
00:20:38
Speaker
like stuff from the 60s and 70s like so I was just thinking well Kenny will bring more to the table than that but he bought too much into this idea like Nate's saying about pretty football and all this stuff no international teams play good football even fans like yeah fans are best collection of players in the world and they're not that good to watch really because they just kind of sit back England boring away through tournaments like their fans are bored stiff watching them but they're always in contention and they've good players we don't have really
00:21:05
Speaker
good players and we don't have that in game manager that was going to say is that it's not even a league of Ireland thing there could be a league of Ireland manager out there who's tactically issue and can react quickly but even last night New Zealand were better in the second half than Ireland because 100% they figured out that okay went in a half time took stock Ireland get them their best shot and were all overs in the second half and Kenny at no point did he make a switch to
00:21:30
Speaker
to influence the match. He just doesn't have that level of in-game coaching. And that's what we've seen exposed from League of Ireland to elite level. That's what Gus Poirier and Ronald Kuhlman, average enough Premier League managers, they have that because they've been competing at this level for 25, 30 years. But it's like we talked a bit before, Rob. We talked about before the killers that are elite managers.
00:21:55
Speaker
Even Kenny doesn't have it in him. He talks about this great team that he's left in place and all the youth that he's brought through. At no point in his tenure did we play good football. At no point did we get better. Statistically, world rankings wise, we've
00:22:12
Speaker
jumped so far down. So it's like, for me, the thing that I would have really appreciated at the end, like, look, no one's saying he's a bad guy. He is definitely a nice man. He's an honorable guy. And he knows football. He just was out of his depth. But at no point did he go, I got it wrong. I could have done this better. Like, there was no... You got quite vicious at the end. Very feisty. He got salty. Yeah. Like, I got a quote here from him.
00:22:40
Speaker
This was I think the press conference the day before and it's just him bashing other managers and egos. Listen, we played Holland the other night, one of the best teams in Europe. It wasn't like we lost 4-1 to Wales or got hammered in Cyprus or Macedonia, which is a dig at O'Neill's start to McCarthy.
00:22:57
Speaker
He goes, it was a tight game in Holland. We lost at 1-0 and deserved to lose. It was one of those tight games. I think a bit of perspective is needed on that. And it's like, no, a bit of perspective isn't. None of us expected to roll in against Holland and absolutely smash people. But we expected to at least compete. And going back to your points earlier, I don't expect to beat Holland. I expect to beat Qatar. I expect to beat Luxembourg, San Marino. It's just lunacy. What game was he watching?
00:23:27
Speaker
like the Netherlands could have scored like four or five like literally like they they missed yeah yeah but but this is the thing about the Netherlands if we're putting things in the perspective this is not the Netherlands of old this is the Netherlands that up until what the last 18 months 24 months Ryan Babel was still fucking playing for them like this is still around it that is frightening I forgot he was even alive
00:23:51
Speaker
Yeah and I was playing international football up until scarily recently I think it was only in the middle of the of the pandemic that he stopped and it's not by his choice just they were in such a basket case but like this is not a Netherlands of old this they yes they have good players but this is not like a 2010 year or 2012 euros or 2008 euros whereas one of these teams that was like
00:24:16
Speaker
good individuals but also a good team. The Netherlands right now are going through their own transitionary period. Yes they're coming out of a very very bad time and they have some stars coming through like Javi Simons but nobody's expecting them to be winning the Euros so it's you can't even compare
00:24:35
Speaker
Like what Katie's trying to say about them. It's like Brazil of 2002 came over. It's, you know, it's like we had the Ronaldinho and Roberta Carlos team roll in. It's like, no, we just semi average Holland team that, you know, I'd argue our 2002 team could beat, you know.
00:24:52
Speaker
He's been very selective in all his narratives and everything he picks. It's always there for his own view, which probably ties into how he's reading the games in-game as well. He's just not seeing the negatives or he's not seeing the flaws in his own view and he doesn't seem to have anyone around him.
00:25:08
Speaker
quickly from a media perspective i didn't have any around to stare and write and tell and make that's a really stupid thing to say well like we see the post-match interviews that they broadcast you've been in the rooms where you know you're seeing more like what's he what's he like in there is he drowning is he just
00:25:26
Speaker
yeah drowning completely yeah like um he'll come in it's usually the times i've covered him it's he comes in like 20 to 11 maybe when that sounds like a real force world uh swashorn doesn't need to give out about because you want to catch the last train but you're like
00:25:41
Speaker
come in mate and be bullish but he comes in late, mumbles through stuff, rambles on a bay and if you ask him a question he'll go onto something else but as opposed to say Mick McCarty, I remember, Ireland, we had a bad result at home and McCarty came in and he was so bullish and
00:26:00
Speaker
so confident and had his back up and it just it did really kind of own the room you know that way whereas O'Neal had his own kind of prickly style from being a successful manager and a player that he just looked down on the Irish press didn't think any of them really where Kenny
00:26:17
Speaker
I think he was trying to explain, show people, look what I know. He'd be talking about the full back step in the midfield, and this is our plan, and this. And I'm like, mate, that's not what we were watching. That's just not what I have quotes here I was looking at. He says, we have built this team over the last two years. It's a new Irish team with a high emphasis on technique and skill. It's a team where every player is comfortable in possession in every area of the pitch. It has speed in attacking areas with a real cutting edge and has shown the capacity to score goals.
00:26:46
Speaker
We've had several injuries, we've strived to build a team at depth to cope with such scenarios. We've built this team at the ultimate ambition to qualify for European Championships in Germany. He said this after Ireland lost 2-1 to Norway in a friendly.
00:27:08
Speaker
Tell me any manager in world football that's ever had a full team, no injuries, no suspensions, like it's complete bullshit. Yeah. Nathan, has Kenny over the last little while, has he lost the fans? I know what tendencies are down, but like there's been a a glut of sport over the last little while. Has he actually lost the backing of the nation?
00:27:32
Speaker
There was no support of that Grease game, I can tell you that. There was more boos than anything. But yeah, like, see, this is the fine line where I struggled to actually come across what I think in terms of, I don't know if I feel bad for him or I don't know if all of it was sort of a lie that he bought into
00:27:56
Speaker
You know what I mean? I can't distinguish. I think he invented the lie. Yeah. I think I think going back to Rob's point, I think he got this job and goes, I have a massive job. I need a new persona. And he goes, I'm this pep Guardiola type. And I think that's what you're I think that you're summing it up perfectly. Do you do you think he fell in love with that lie and sort of like bought into it and like he sort of became part of the lie? Or do you think he like it was sort of like he was too far and deep that he couldn't he couldn't just go like.
00:28:23
Speaker
I think Keith Andrews telling him, I think Keith Andrews telling him, no, no, I'm seeing this too. I genuinely think he had yes men around him and whatever he believed just got elevated to a point where you can't really see outside of it. And then he probably had siege mentality where he's like, oh, the media are going to be against me regardless of what I do. And I think it was just delusional. That was peak COVID.
00:28:50
Speaker
but I remember there was a real bad spell there where he went like 11 hours of scoring and I think it would be Andor or something like that or someone really really small and then scored against Serbia and then lost but that first year was absolutely terrible for him and he'll say it was mitigating stuff like
00:29:11
Speaker
covid rules and stuff like that but i think now it just doesn't matter he was just it wasn't gonna work anyway he might have got a bit of bad luck but it was i think we look back and see it was clear from the start this was wasn't gonna happen for him well 2020 we'd eight games and he didn't win one um he had one two three four draws in eight games like how like that's the kind of thing if you
00:29:37
Speaker
This is why I do think this is a prime example, going into the next manager, whoever it is, short-term contract, it has to be. Short-term contract with huge bonus options to get interested parties in, even if it's a two-year cycle. Because then you go into 2021, and I won't go through every team, I'll just bring up the ones that kind of stick out to me.
00:30:01
Speaker
we lose one nil to Luxembourg absolute joke we draw one all with Qatar we then we beat Andorra 4-1 that was kind of that was his first win so he started in September of 2020 and we've our first win in in a friendly in June in 21 like what are we doing here
00:30:24
Speaker
We go down the list, then we go hungry, we draw a nil all. Portugal, we lose 2-1, that's fine. Azerbaijan, we draw one all. Serbia, we draw one all. And then we start getting a bit better, two wins on the bounce, three nil win against Azerbaijan, four nil win against Qatar, but like, right now we wouldn't beat Azerbaijan, right now we wouldn't beat Qatar. Qatar went to the World Cup, I know it was in Qatar, but like, they would beat us, I think.
00:30:52
Speaker
But if you look at a lot of the teams there that we're saying that we should beat, so let's say Bulgaria, Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, like.
00:31:03
Speaker
they have now what Ireland used to have which was the ability to just be dogged and grind out a result and just if nothing else know as a unit we're gonna live and die by this we'll put our fucking backs against the wall we'll yeah just get anything like be pragmatic about it and Nathan
00:31:26
Speaker
I can't remember ever seeing Kenny be as flexible as to kind of go, listen lads, just huff it, last 25 minutes, let's try and get something here. Yeah, we really didn't and you have to question if he even had it in his back locker to begin with. Like that's what I struggle with so much is like, at some point there must have been a conversation at camp where we go, do we just close shop for a game and see how it works?
00:31:52
Speaker
you know what I mean? Play off whoever up front and just go let's try and nick a goal hold on to the lead. Like surely that conversation had to happen because we didn't see it in the games so like they clearly didn't didn't choose to do it and I think it's something that dates back to like international experience. It's like
00:32:10
Speaker
I think it carries so much value is having a manager with previous international experiences. They know how to get them wins. I think we're looking back earlier and we're like, Trappitoni. His win record, when you look back, I think it's 40%. It's much higher than Stephen Kenny's. But it was boring football, but he couldn't win. You know what I mean? That's the thing about one. It matches where you see the mistake. Sorry, Nate. That did it for me. He lost away to Armenia 1-0.
00:32:40
Speaker
it comes from a shot from outside the box because the hole in my field kind of opens up like Trappithoney would never allow that but those gaps were always on Shaw and Kenny's team or they played fancy at home last year or they did a show and people were like oh Ireland played well
00:32:56
Speaker
But then Josh Cullen gives the ball away on the edge of the box and how about it scores from outside the box. Now someone who's just casually watching that might think that isn't that bad luck. That guy just really hit that ball really hard and flew in the top of the net. But if you were watching it enough and watching closure, not at all. That mistake happens because Steven Kenney is telling them.
00:33:15
Speaker
pass the ball pass the ball and he's not telling them in a situation like that lads clear lines and get up the pitch and keep her shape like that's that's that's sunday league football and but again it had to be his way of playing and all these individual mistakes i've seen some guys on a thread on twitter of all the individual mistakes that occurred when there's even kenny basically saying look at how unlucky he is i look at that and go these mistakes happen but in the context of his management they are a direct result
00:33:44
Speaker
Exactly. That's a pattern of stuff. That's a pattern of management and play. I remember you sending me that thread, and when a thread gets that deep, you're getting your tin hat on. When you look at the teams we won, it won't take long to go through them, because there's not many. We got a win against Gibraltar. Sorry, two wins against Gibraltar. One against Latvia. Malta, Armenia. Scotland, decent win there. Lithuania, Luxembourg.
00:34:14
Speaker
Qatar, Azerbaijan, and Dora. Like, they're all games that any other team if we were saying, Oh, look, look at the games we want, they laughed. They're absolutely laughing. So they're not, they're nobody's like, like, I mean, come on. Yeah. Like, what are we doing? lads? Has Kenny, has Kenny been a victim?
00:34:36
Speaker
and the beneficiary of a transient FAI where he, it was set up for failure. He was brought in on the, oh, you'll be under 21s and big Mick, you're actually going to be able to have a job in two years. And I actually, Mick, forget it, just we'll put Kenny in now anyway, and kind of being put in a kind of out with a plan. Um, but also because they've been in such a.
00:35:00
Speaker
transitionary period themselves that they were able to take the eyes off the prize and off of him and a lot of the issues that user after highlighting over the last five minutes kind of just went unnoticed. Kenny was Kenny was Delaney's last gift to us that genuinely it was because that whole McCarthy situation would you see that in any other football association in the world? No.
00:35:26
Speaker
Not in that way. Canada did not something similar, but they had a plan in place. So John Herdman was the women's national team coach, then he was brought in as the assistant manager, then he was made the manager and he's the one that brought through the likes of Alfonso Davies and Jonathan David and
00:35:48
Speaker
There's a logic to doing that. Whereas the FAI was a little bit kind of like big mic. That was like a holding appointment to keep people off his back. And he wanted to be 21s manager.
00:36:02
Speaker
And I think he would have tried to get Mick to stay on longer and I think he wanted Robbie Keane as manager as well because he gave Robbie a four-year deal whereas Mick only got a two-year deal. So like Delaney's final victim or final gift is Kenny. So in the macro context of it,
00:36:23
Speaker
it's a lot of stuff isn't his fault really and also it's not his fault that app is coming out of time when we've never had fewer top-level players and also we can't get players over to the UK the way we used to because of Brexit and we aren't developing players here because standards have raised so much highly elsewhere like we'll still get the odd one like there'll be an Evan Ferguson in there every so often but most of our players are they're just kind of like
Youth Development and Talent Visibility Issues
00:36:51
Speaker
Well, Nathan Collins is quite talented. They have to say he is, and he's highly rated. But generally, like Benny and guys like this, they're over level. And Kenny can't do much about that, which is so surprising that he spoke them up like they were the Italian 90 squad at times. Even last night, he was saying how much he's going to miss them. I wouldn't miss some of them that much, to be honest.
00:37:15
Speaker
And Evan Ferguson isn't not going to miss him. You know what I mean? Like he's a once in a generational talent for our country anyway. And you're telling me he wants Stephen Kenny at the helm of his international career? I don't think so.
00:37:29
Speaker
just while we are recognizing John Delaney's role in all this should and maybe we're not qualified to really make this call because it might need a bit more of a deep deep deep dive in to get the actual results but does rude doctor have a lot to answer for in the sense that like are we he was brought in to bring in a style of football that was going to be brought from the grass roots up and
00:37:56
Speaker
Have we seen the benefits of it yet? Grassroots in this country is a joke. There is people across this country that give their lives to grassroots and I adore them. It is the best part of the game but from a governing point of view
00:38:12
Speaker
it's a disgrace the lack of investment. The pitches, you look around, in no way a GAA connoisseur, I wouldn't know as much as I do about football, but what GAA have at least been able to do in their communities is give top level services across the nation. You can't say the same for football. There's areas where
00:38:34
Speaker
better pitches, but across the board, you go to a town, any rinky-dink place, solid G8 pitch. We don't have to. Yeah. To the league of early clubs development. That's what he created. He's actually at the launch of the league.
00:38:47
Speaker
as they were creating this new underage league, like a structure where all the best young players are going to play together and they'll be like, so instead of playing for crumbling in the night or cherry orchard, the best players will go play for St. Pat's or bohemians or all these different things. But these think of organ clubs as trying to keep the lights on, like they're not academies, like they're not professional academies. I remember doing a piece a couple of years ago that my nephew played for cherry orchard.
00:39:10
Speaker
and he went over to Valencia and him and his Cherry Orchard team like beat Valencia to beat Barcelona beat loads as teams small over Europe these were when you were 14 but like within four years I remember calculating that my nephew played football twice a week those Spanish guys were probably playing four times a week five times a week that results in thousands of more errors with the ball so the times are 18 of course they're going to be better like you have you get them Irish lads playing against them again
00:39:37
Speaker
And they're going to wipe the floor with them. So it's been a bad, whole structural failure going back decades, just decades. And people like real doctor, these bureaucratic guys, they're 10 a penny. There's probably someone in there now. And now they're looking for government investment, the FBI, and saying, how do we get the money that goes to Greyhound racing? Or how do we get betting money? We need to invest in the infrastructure, all this type of stuff.
00:40:02
Speaker
I just think at this rate, the way we're going, probably about 30 years behind our rivals, like, and it's just, um, yeah, it's, it's pretty grim. I just believe in our, you know what I mean? Yeah.
00:40:17
Speaker
But I do think Irish football as a whole is such a false image in its current state. We go play against other international teams in this lovely Aviva stadium, packed out sometimes, and it's a nicely done up product for it to see on the TV.
00:40:38
Speaker
It was really cool to see Pats versus Bowes in the Aviva. It looked like a proper match, proper football match. But if you peel that back one level, the drop-off is crazy, you know what I mean? I think that's such a big eye-opener. You have to rise the whole tide. You can't just have the finished product on the top and go, look at that. You know what I mean?
00:41:03
Speaker
It's it's like, say, Greece, like the stadium they play in, it's like it's it's level to the to the league that they're in. It's like we don't have that. It's like such a huge gap between our actual grassroots and league. And it's like you need you need to close that gap. You really do. Otherwise, you're just you're just you're you're playing up for the TVs and the sponsors and the advertisers. That's all you want. No industry at all. So we're just basically picking off scraps, really.
00:41:33
Speaker
They might get a lot over the England. He might do well. We also think we don't understand the context of how competitive Primarily football is like like I remember a couple years ago people giving out saying that Joe's marina was a fraud for not starting Troy Parrott And I'm like that's like Joe's me I was a multiple European Cup in a manager Troy Parrott's probably gonna end up back in the League of Ireland There are levels to this sport that just aren't there in in those other sports that people follow in our like rugby or GA like there's no the levels and swap football are just
00:42:03
Speaker
look almost indescribable to describe how good some of those players are in in Premier League compared to our guys and that level is just we'll never bridge it at the moment but when we say when we say when we say like you know we'd look at our team in at one stretch you're like oh Colin Robinson great player for Ireland he is so buying average in the Premier League it is unbelievable he's not even Premier League you know like he's Irish but he's British made you know not like we haven't developed him in our system like so
00:42:32
Speaker
It's hard to claim any credit for him, even if he was good. You know that way, like, we're just getting scraps. But on that, you know, I like an out of left field suggestion. Wouldn't be like it. So in the Philippines, in their league now, they see the team has since collapsed. But I think it's a model that should be looked at for the first division and potentially the Irish Premier League.
00:43:00
Speaker
is we should have an FAI team where if so like we said before by Cherry Orchard and all that not being able to like the teams can't afford to have an academy and the likes of Cherry Orchard can't afford to keep the lads on beyond a certain age that the
00:43:19
Speaker
Yeah, so there should be that kind of a bridging club where basically a version of the Irish under 19s or under 20s, under 21s, up until the age of 21 is playing in the league. So if cherry orchards can't afford to keep you, you want to move up a level where they can get signed to the FAI themselves, play in against men, get good experience, maybe one of the teams will sign you.
00:43:47
Speaker
And it's that kind of second chance, but it's also a place where, like, if you're a damn good 16-year-old, well, I'm sure Sean Grovers could loan you out to the FAI team, and then you're gonna be in the system, and you're gonna be feeding into the under-19s team. I'll give you a better chance. It comes down to money, because, like, I like the concept in some respects, but I think it's also, if you're a 16-year-old who's good enough to get into that team, you can earn
00:44:14
Speaker
five, six, seven, 10 grand a week in the UK. And it's been able to keep a hold of them, you know, but it's the thing is about getting them seen first. And I think that's where we're missing. And as Nathan, I'm sure you're about to say is the link is no longer there. So the European scouts need to have an area that they can see them.
00:44:35
Speaker
So having this kind of a team being able to go, right, yeah, they might be facing against Kerry or whatever. But I'd much rather see a young lad going up against a 30-year-old who's fighting for half his week's wages, because at least that's going to be an actual experience. Yeah, no, actually, when you say it like that, yeah. I remember years ago, there used to be a staff that of, I think it was actually under O'Neill's,
00:45:01
Speaker
O'Neill's tenure that most of the Irish players that were in the Premier League had actually came from the League of Ireland and those that had gone from the League of Ireland that were in the Irish national team ended up having a longer career because they had better experience from the gecko. Basically they didn't have an ego, they got used to being battered around and they were going to actually have a professional career
00:45:25
Speaker
rather than these lads are getting muddy coddled, kick gloves, go on to U-Team's U-Team, and then look at Connor Clifford. Connor Clifford captained Chelsea to an underage FA Cup against the likes of Pogba and stuff, and couldn't even get into an ox team two years ago. The standards was there. They think of all that by age and their homesick, and it's the standards of those 18, 16, 17, 18-year-old guys from all over the world are just so high that a lot of them are nearly better staying here, and
00:45:54
Speaker
Basically, I remember writing this a couple of years ago. It's like we have this product, this market we used to export it to. We don't really need it anymore in England. Like they have their own players or players from all over the world. So you need to create a kind of a market for it here, really. And that won't happen unless if you build an actual industry and for that to happen, then we need a proper functioning, competitive, lucrative big of Ireland. And I've got many years away from that early, probably 50 years.
00:46:25
Speaker
Well, this is what I was going to say. I like the concepts of all of this and I would like to do a call back. We redesigned the Premier League, redesigned the FAI, but we just don't have the people in place to implement that. And that's not to say that the volunteers at the grassroots level or even the people, not everyone in the FAI is incapable of doing this, but I mean, the people that would be the decision makers and the power brokers of this, I don't think.
00:46:51
Speaker
have the knowledge base to execute it correctly, you know? But I think one thing as well is like going back to what Kilian said about the FAI team, it's like they've got a model there with what the IRFU do as well. It's like they sign people up and they distribute the talent to each team. And I know it's different because there's only four provinces.
00:47:11
Speaker
But it's a good system to look at in terms of you can dictate how good a team is in a league or this and that. So I do think it's a model that could be explored in the future. I just, as you said, I don't know if the people are there to do it, but they have the model right there if they're willing to put the money in.
00:47:28
Speaker
and some guy wanted to bring that in years ago in 2007 and John Delaney yet a guy called Patrick Smith and as soon as he said that I reminded him of a piece of f2 years ago and basically I think when this was written he was with Colorado Rapids as like CEO and he wanted to bring in a centralized system where the FBI held the contracts for the league of orient clubs like the RFU model and
00:47:54
Speaker
Yeah that's smart. That's what this piece says anyway. So there has to be people with these ideas and ambition and it just hasn't come to any type of fruition at all.
00:48:07
Speaker
But I think coming up as well, because the players can't go to the UK at such a young age now, it's like the only way for them to get top level football is through Europe. I know we've got Shamrock Rovers who have a nice amount of money now and stuff like that, but we need to stack a team and have our best talent playing in Europe year in, year out, you know what I mean? Show them off.
00:48:31
Speaker
but yeah like 100% like and I I do think like that that's the ultimate goal is I know it's not good as a product for for the league of Ireland but we do need to like raise the level for a few teams to where you know there's clear outliers in the league because Europe and I particularly leagues overseas it's like we we all turn a blind eye at one team leads and who win this and
00:48:59
Speaker
when it year in year out but that's how you grow your league is you have people competing in Europe but we don't have that right now.
00:49:10
Speaker
Yeah. And I think this is one of the things that it's been good in context of Kenny to get this kind of chat kind of going. There is issues where with our development chain, there is issues with the the governing body.
Future Management Possibilities for Ireland
00:49:23
Speaker
But I kind of want to bring things back to pre Kenny times and kind of put things into context. And when O'Neill was leaving the job, I've gone back to 2018 and dug out the managers who were linked with the job at the time.
00:49:42
Speaker
This is a very, very grim list when you see who's being linked with the job now. So the number one time, so this is from an Irish examiner article at the time, the number one candidate for the job was Mick McCarthy. The number two candidate was Stephen Kenny. Number three was Chris Houghton. Four, Neil Lennon.
00:50:07
Speaker
five Sam Allardyce, six Fengorn Erickson and then a rabbit run around of Roy Keane, Robbie Keane, Lee Carisley, Steve Bruce, Brian Kerr and this interesting one, Arson Wenger.
00:50:26
Speaker
It is grim that every one of them bar from Harrison Venger is linked with a job again. Yeah, that's Jesus. As he went on, I was like, Oh, he's in it. He's in it. He's in it. Like mother of God. Like, I understand. This goes back to the question I asked earlier is, are we any worse off?
00:51:05
Speaker
more destructive really. I think we're Kenny, I think we're going to go to this period anyway, but maybe a higher level manager would have us now in more contention, but I don't know if we will be doing a lot with this squad anyway, if that makes sense. I don't think he's been, I think it'd be, I think the history would be kind enough to him, you know, that way, because you can always think that we've all true, but he's definitely not the top level coach required, the tactician that we'd need to get us to a tournament or even improve the ranking.
00:51:07
Speaker
from having had his tenure.
00:51:37
Speaker
Right lads, I'm gonna put the question to Ichi as Nathan, Connor, then Robbie. Stephen Kenny's legacy. Underqualified or underappreciated in his own time?
00:51:49
Speaker
underqualified and a professional waffler. That's what I got. I think I alluded to it back then. I think he came in with good intentions, thought he had it figured out, fell into his own lie and continued with it. I think it went past the point, probably six, seven. There's definitely a game, I think it was maybe Grease Away, but
00:52:18
Speaker
The FAI keeping them on that long, it became a prison sentence rather than anything else. We were always going to get to this point. And I think that's when I started to feel sorry for them was when they purposely kept them on for their own personal gain.
00:52:37
Speaker
And I think, yeah, I think he was definitely, I think he was definitely not the right man for the job at the time. And three years or, yeah, like it's such a long period when you look back that I think you've done a lot of damage that we'll look back on for a time to come. Connor, underappreciated or unqualified?
00:53:03
Speaker
I think under qualified, delusional and kind of on Nathan's point, a bit of a snake oil salesman in his media approach, but one point on the, that I think will stand to him long-term and may go into the underappreciated. Nathan, what was that stat you were telling me earlier about teenagers in Kenny's teams?
00:53:32
Speaker
Oh, yeah, it was actually Rob's one. It was about the teens. He actually. 42 made an appearance under him, 42 times a teenager made an appearance under him out of a total of 50 in the history of Ireland. So that's a big, big number, you know what I mean? So.
00:53:52
Speaker
Like, out of that 42, even if three of them come through, Ferguson's one of them. By proxy. I don't know how much he used that as a crutch though, you know what I mean? Oh, massively. At what point did it go from good intentions trying to blood through young players and stuff to something that he chilled himself with, you know what I mean?
00:54:12
Speaker
I don't know where that distinction crossed the line between he had good intentions and that's what he was going for and then he used it as a defence mechanism. I don't know where that was. I'm going to be fair to him. I do think ultimately he was under qualified given his lack of tactical acumen and exposure to the top level of the game.
00:54:37
Speaker
harmful. I do think we should have got one of these three tournaments, maybe this Euros with a proper nations league campaign with a better higher level coach. Long term, no, I don't know if it would be too damaging as we've brought through a lot of players.
00:54:56
Speaker
and it was ultimately a failed experiment. If you look at the brass tacks of it, we weren't even anywhere near close to getting to a tournament. So from that perspective, it's been a failure, but I'd give him a three out of 10 maybe about the ranking. What are you saying, Cillian? What's your vibe on him? I think in five years' time, we'll be glad that it was him. I think if we had
00:55:22
Speaker
some of the other names amongst the likes of a Steve Bruce we wouldn't have we wouldn't have these guys bedded in at a time when we're going to need them. So when Ferguson and Morin and Bizounu, Keller and Collins, Festy, the list genuinely can keep going on and on.
00:55:43
Speaker
by the time that they're all well used to playing with each other and we are in a position to be challenging with a few other youngsters coming true for qualification we'll be glad to have had him and we'll be looking back on this time going Jesus it was rough but we came out the other side with a team that is ready and willing and able to work through stuff like you know they some players need a
00:56:11
Speaker
Well that's what we had here. Would we be at the Euros though if we didn't have Stephen Kenny? If we had Steve Bruce would we be at the Euros? Well I think on those managers you mentioned that were up for the job the last time. I guarantee you anyone on that list had they got the job would not still be in the job right now.
00:56:28
Speaker
They would have been pushed out. With the crop of players we have, there's no way a manager would have lasted, what was that, 2018, five years? No way. The only one I think that might have done a creditable qualification process would have been Mick. Because I think he had that kind of level of pragmatism. But we would have had nothing after it. We would have been kind of going, right, Mick's gone. Let's restart. Well, it would have been 2003 all over again. I think we need to get away from that old school British type manager.
00:56:56
Speaker
and Kenny's not the answer by any means but he's probably closer to the answer than i'll be very um philosophical here closer to the answer than Martin O'Neill was or or Stephanie Steve Bruce like i think that's when i just go that's it for me like i'm not watching this like this oh no no
00:57:21
Speaker
Mrs. Doubtfire will not win us games, I tell you that much. I've been here before boys, I've seen them. There's loads of these guys in the middle, loads of these top level coaches who
00:57:41
Speaker
Look, for example, it's more like typing them down. It's like, imagine typing the football manager. I want the guy with 15 speed or 10 tactical acumen or whatever. It's almost like identifying attributes and then going and finding them. Like when Trappatoni got appointed, Trappatoni was a successful art manager. His name wasn't anywhere near the contention for that. It became, he came along later in the process because he knew he wanted a top level manager after stomping.
00:58:05
Speaker
He wanted someone who was available, obviously, who can put shape on the team and coach them correctly. And that's why he did. Trappatoni had spent hours working. Being able to speak English would have been nice. That would have been an extra trick.
00:58:20
Speaker
Yeah, we all have that billionaire to pay us wages. Apparently, like, as I've since paid a billion, there's a million a year. And I'm like, that's what I might take. That's double what Kenny was on. FBI have had their government fund and suspended. So, so like, these are big issues. Jesus. He's on a million. On this, the willpower odds for the next Ireland manager. Neil Lennon, two to one. No. No, one of them. Lee Carsley, four to one.
00:58:51
Speaker
Don't think he'd take it. Roy Keane, 5-1. What's your vibe on that lad?
00:59:01
Speaker
Look, it's all about, it's all about content. Big makes as the assistant. He's not watching the Ireland team. They're bored 21,000. What do you think Roy Keane's going to be there? Like, I remember I used to go, when, when Keem was the system manager. Yeah, you turned off, yeah. Before games, you had people like, filming him, like thousands in the stadium, filming him, doing volleys before the game, and them keeping up. He's like, um, like he's box office. So if you're not going to get a good coach, what is it getting? Getting the content machine that is Roy. Who's next on the list? Who's next on the list?
00:59:31
Speaker
Steve Bruce 11 to 2? No. Big Sam. As the only guy here who has actually had a Steve Bruce team do well with Sunderland us finishing 7th at one stage, stay the hell away from him. It always ends in flames. Remember the last time we talked about this, we were like, it's probably going to be someone like 10th on that list. Go down middle of that list. Here we go.
01:00:00
Speaker
So Chris Hughton 21, Anthony Barry 22, I want to take Chris Hughton, I want to take Chris Hughton. Yeah I wouldn't bother from him. He's living life, he's living wealth. The next one I think could be the guy.
01:00:21
Speaker
John Eustace, 25 to one. Hear me out. He was the Anthony Barry replacement, but then he had to leave after a couple of months because he was given the Birmingham job where he kept them up and was doing well until Tom Brady came in and wanted a big name and appointed Wayne Rooney. And apparently the Brummie fans weren't best pleased to see in Waza in Birmingham. So he plays a reasonable and at times pragmatic style of football.
01:00:49
Speaker
He knows the setup, so he knows what he's getting into. And he hasn't quite got enough of an experience at management to be able to charge what the likes of a Carusli could. He's not on that list. So he's an Irish man, proud Irish man, coach at the top level, great public speaker, and currently in a job. But Ireland don't play a competitive match again next September, so you can see how it goes. Brendan Rodgers.
01:01:22
Speaker
He's done it all ourselves. What's he going to do? Get knocked out of the championship again and win the treble, treble, treble, treble, wherever it is he's going for. I don't know, aim high. That could be one because at one point, he has such a big ego and he's such a good coach. He's like that, an ego.
01:01:45
Speaker
He'd be one of them lads that's worth a chat if he can get the hour with him. Oh, you think the only way he does that is if he can keep club job and does it on the side. I don't think he does it full time. The FAO would need a financial aid. Rogers is a wealthy man. Well, if you're still in a part-time, and that's if you had a good assistant. He has a property empire. This guy is not short of any money. And he's a proud Irishman. I know he's from Northern Ireland, but he can play Gaelic, and he's from a nationalist background.
01:02:14
Speaker
I don't know. That's your thing. It's more to think about for them. If it's not Rodgers, don't be thinking you have to go against Steve Bruce. He can wait a couple of months on this. There's going to be lots of changes. Managers get sacked all the time. I wouldn't like them to go straight to Karlie and not look at anyone else.
01:02:32
Speaker
Yeah, 10 months. Well, we've got time. That's the thing. We actually have time to select some. By the way, is Frank Lampard on that list? No. Good. OK. Thank God. It goes as far as 40 to 1 being John O'Shea and Lampard doesn't make the list at all. The other names are Duff 25 to 1, Keith Andrews 33 to 1, Rafa Benitez 33 to 1.
01:02:58
Speaker
Money again, wouldn't cut him though. What about goes play out? What's your thoughts on that? The tracks is over.
01:03:05
Speaker
Well, I think, and Nathan, I think I know where you're going to come back with this. I think, boy, it's a bloody snake. I think he's slimy. We need a snake. That's what we need. We need someone that's not the safe option. Like, we need someone that's going to go in and he's either going to set the world on fire for us or burn the whole house down, you know what I mean? I think that's where we're at. We're in the middle.
01:03:33
Speaker
I don't think we can build any further, like with a manager that comes in and with a new project. I think we're at the point where it's Roy Keane or Ghost Poet they come in, they either do really well or they bring the empire down with them. I'll make the case for Ghost Poet again, Sunland have gone through every manager so if you ever need to know, we have it.
01:03:56
Speaker
Gus Poyer likes to play a good style of football, but he's very pragmatic. He'll just go, right, what? Let's try this. Oh, God, like, this is what happens sometimes. God, no, you aren't able for that. God, no, no, no, no. Let's just, like, let's just play football. Let's just get it done. This 442, we get it. And he did The Great Escape with us. He is a nice guy. He did get a bit
01:04:19
Speaker
bitter at the end of his time with Sunderland and I hate saying as a new comes from but you have better players than we do in Ireland You know what I mean? Like he had more to work with than he does now. He's paying better teams as well You know Like the other thing about him though now is he's a lot more experienced because the Brighton Revolution did not begin with Graham Potter it began with Gus Poyette and
01:04:45
Speaker
people forget that Gus play it's the one that got them from league one that's the show you can't forget that that's where son that lent got him from was when he had bloody Buckley playing on the wing and doing well he had his own and assistant playing right right back
01:05:04
Speaker
Mauricio Teresa who I think briefly it was his assistant he was briefly under keen at Ipswich and then there was another guy another Spanish dude so he brought in all these kind of influences into League one in like 2009 2010 which was pretty damn good
01:05:21
Speaker
So he is a bit of a forward thinker. I know he has his son Diego now as a performance analysis, who is the most hench transformation you will ever see before he turned into like Fernando Tara's level of build. Fernando wishes. Cause he went from being like a slim 20 year old at West Ham and Charlton to just being like he
01:05:42
Speaker
His arms now is the total size of what he used to be. So I definitely wouldn't pass up the opportunity to have the chat with Paulette, because he's gone and he's done it. He's managed now in France. He was doing well in France until he had a floor now with the ownership. He's done it in China. I don't trust a guy who's got a job and publicly tries to get another one while he has one. That's where I'm saying he's a snake.
01:06:05
Speaker
No, you can't blame him. It's the tracksuits, man. We'll give him a green one, we'll give him a black one, we'll give him a... He wants a tracksuit, so we'll give him a tracksuit. That'll be in his contract. But I do think one thing that serves him so well is the international experience as well.
01:06:22
Speaker
Yeah, no, he's coming straight from an international job into another one. I think that's where he didn't do bad. Exactly. Yeah, he beat us. But he's probably going to go to the Euros now, is he? So, you know what I mean? So lads, before we finish up, I want to ask you
Podcast Conclusion and Farewell
01:06:42
Speaker
each gave me a name who you want to replace Kenny and I'll do a football manager simulation and with posters on our socials and we'll see who ends up with the better coach at the end of let's say the next Euro cycle. So that's, you have a Nations League, you have a World Cup and then another Nations League and the Euros. Robbie, who do you want in the hot seat? I like it. Connor.
01:07:13
Speaker
I agree with Rob and Brendan Rodgers, but outside of that, I'd be curious as to what we could do with Lee Carsley. Okay. Nice. Oh, Gus Playa and Roy Keane, which one? That'd be a great YouTube boxing fight, wouldn't it? I'm going to say Gus Playa. That's what I'm going to go for. What are you saying, Kylie? We need the fourth one in here.
01:07:41
Speaker
okay the one i would like i don't think it's gonna happen but the one i would really like will be graham potter i knew you couldn't get through this conversation with bringing that man's name i know graham potter like just like guess what i'm going to get him like and then happy day and just yeah like i wish you'd have him we don't
01:08:05
Speaker
go back and listen to his interviews when he first started managing. Like when he was at, was it Swansea University or Essex University or one of them? Like from then he, like he, he is exactly what, he's the exact opposite of a Roy Keane. Watch it now, Nathan. In the picture, the Graham Potter scene will win just out of pure chance. Oh yeah. We'll do a Chelsea episode next week and it'll still be awesome for him to be the manager of Chelsea.
01:08:31
Speaker
No, no, no, no. Chelsea's too much of a shit show. So what we're going to do then is we'll have Brendan Rodgers versus Gus Poyette versus Lee Carsley versus Graham Potter versus the Bucky's favorite Roy Keane. And we'll see who has a better run of it in Football Manager 2024. And lads, that brings us to the end of the podcast and to the end of Stephen Kenny.
01:08:58
Speaker
Long may he rest, and long may we go without a mention of him. My thanks as always goes to our irreplaceable roster of not a pundit, not pundits. Connor Glennon, Robbie Redmond, Nathan Byrne, and I'm just here. I'm Gillian Ginnity. Thanks a million lads. Bye-bye. Pleasure, bye. I'm not into podcasts.
01:09:29
Speaker
What a hit! Back of the net.