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Episode 110—Scott Neumyer on Podcasting, Writing, and Anxiety
131 Plays7 years ago
"I want to make something happen and I just work really hard to do it," says today's guest Scott Neumyer, a writer and host of the Anxiety Diaries Podcast. Today’s guest has a voice as smooth as velvet. It’s a voice you want to listen to over and over again and you know what? You can! Today I welcome Scott Neumyer to the show. Scott Neumyer is a writer who has been published by The New York Times, Rolling Stone, Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, GQ, Esquire, Wired, Men's Fitness, and many more publications. He is a contributor to the anthology Life Inside My Mind: 31 Authors Share Their Personal Struggles, which Simon Pulse published in 2018. He is also the creator and host of the popular Anxiety Diaries Podcast. He lives in central New Jersey with his wife, two daughters, and two cats. You can find his work at scottwrites.com This is the show where I speak to the best creators about telling true stories, how they’re told, and why it matters so you can apply those tools of mastery to your own work. I’m Brendan O’Meara, and this is The Creative Nonfiction Podcast. Scott has been working hard on his new podcast, Anxiety Diaries, and it’s raw, it’s honest, and it showcases interesting people across the mental health-sphere. In this episode we dig into his origin as a writer, influential writers, lots about the craft of interviewing, and how to launch a successful podcast. If you dig the show, please subscribe and leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Joe Rogan doesn’t need anymore. I need them. Me. Okay, CNFers, thanks for listening, let’s get right into it.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor
00:00:00
Speaker
The Creative Nonfiction Podcast is sponsored by HippoCamp 2018, now in its fourth year. HippoCamp is a three-day Creative Nonfiction writing conference that features 50-plus speakers, engaging sessions, and four tracks. Interactive all-conference panels, author and attendee readings, social activities, networking opportunities, and optional intimate pre-conference workshops.
Conference Details and Discount Code
00:00:27
Speaker
The conference takes place in lovely Lancaster, Pennsylvania from August 24th through August 26th. Visit hippocampusmagazine.com and click the conference tab in the toolbar. And if you enter the keyword, CNF pod,
00:00:43
Speaker
At checkout, you will receive a $50 discount. This offer is only good until August 10th or until all those tickets are sold and they are selling. There are a limited number, so act now. Hippo Camp 2018, create, share, live.
Guest Introduction: Scott Neumeier
00:01:03
Speaker
Wow, today's guest has a voice as smooth as velvet. It's a voice you want to listen to over and over again. And you know what? You can! Today I welcome Scott Neumeier to the show. Scott is a writer who has been published by the New York Times, Rolling Stone, Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, GQ, Esquire, Wired, Men's Fitness,
00:01:26
Speaker
And many, many more. He is a contributor to the anthology Life Inside My Head. 31 authors share their personal struggles, which Simon Pulse published in 2018. He is also the creator and host of the popular Anxiety Diaries podcast. He lives in central New Jersey with his wife, two daughters, and two cats. You can find his work at scottrights.com. Where else can you hear a delightful candor like this?
00:01:54
Speaker
I know that a lot of people say they love writing.
Podcast Focus and Scott's Work
00:01:56
Speaker
I literally hate writing. I hate writing. I don't understand how anyone likes it. On the other hand, I love having written.
00:02:09
Speaker
This is the show where I speak to the best creators about telling true stories, how they're told, and why it matters, so you can apply those tools of mastery to your own work. I'm Brendan O'Mara, and this is the Creative Nonfiction Podcast. Scott has been working hard on his new podcast, Anxiety Diaries, and it's raw, it's honest, and it showcases interesting people across the mental healthosphere.
00:02:34
Speaker
In this episode, we dig into his origin as a writer, influential writers, lots about the craft of interviewing, and how to launch a successful podcast.
Scott's Love for Reading
00:02:44
Speaker
If you dig the show, please subscribe and leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Joe Rogan doesn't need any more. I do. Me. Okay, CNFers, thanks for listening. Let's get right to it.
00:03:04
Speaker
All right. So when I was a kid, books were big in our house. Obviously, you know, we didn't have a ton of money when I was a kid. But the one thing my mom and my dad always said yes to were books. Right. If we were at a store, you know, I had my human and stuff like that. But if if there was a new human, there was a good chance I wasn't going to be able to get it. But if there was a book, they would always say yes to a book. So I always grew up around books. I had books. So that was important for
Career Transition to Writing
00:03:30
Speaker
me. But it really never kind of
00:03:32
Speaker
The feeling of wanting to actually write never came over me until like maybe, I don't know, junior year of high school is when I started like I wrote an essay. I wrote an essay about my grandmother dying or something like that. And that was like that was like juice for the brain, man. Like I just felt the the juice of actually writing that and then reading it in front of the class. It was difficult, but it was exciting. You know what I mean? And that was like that rush of getting that published piece kind of.
00:04:02
Speaker
So that's when I really kind of fell in love with with writing. But I went to college. I went to college to actually I started as a double major in psychology and criminal justice. I was obsessed with the movie Sounds of the Lambs and the books by Thomas Harris. So I wanted to be a criminal profile like Clarice Starling. So I went there and then I started out in college and I realized very quickly that criminal justice is basically all politics.
00:04:31
Speaker
And psychology is way too much biology. So I came to the realization that what I love are stories. Like it's just the stories that I like. It's not, you know, I don't really want to do it. I just want to read about it. So I did that and I started writing short stories and things like that. Took tons of writing classes in all of those respects.
Publicity Career and Writing Opportunities
00:04:56
Speaker
And then after I finished college, I was still doing this stuff on my own, right?
00:05:01
Speaker
I was still writing fiction, mostly fiction at the time. And I went out and I went back to my job that I had before college while I was in college. And it was just working, you know, in pharmaceuticals. It was nothing exciting. And I finally got out of there. And then ever since I was a senior in high school, I had been writing DVD reviews for an online site. At the time, it was called DVDAngle.com. And that folded. And then I went over to another site called DVDTalk.com.
00:05:32
Speaker
And I was writing DVD reviews there. You know, you weren't getting paid. You were just getting DVDs in return for your reviews. So this is 1998, 1999. And I was doing that. And that kind of got me into the job that I did for about eight years after that. My editor at the time knew the PR people that he was working with that would get him the DVDs to review for the site.
00:05:58
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They he knew that they were looking for somebody. So I came and I started working with them. And I did publicity for home entertainment clients for about eight years. And towards the end of that, I started doing some freelance writing, you know, never about the stuff that we were covering, obviously, because I wanted to keep those two very separate, no conflict of interest or anything.
Editorial Work and Podcasting
00:06:20
Speaker
I started writing and I started writing more and more and every single time that I would get a new outlet, it would go into my signature of my email, right? So by the time I had ended up parting ways with them, I had all of these outlets in my signature because it's like a snowball. You know, you get one outlet and then the next one sees it when you start pitching them and then the next one and the next one and the next one and before you know it,
00:06:46
Speaker
You've got bylines at gq.com, details.com, Esquire.com, New York Times, all these places. So the more you do, the more the much more apt you are to get an assignment. So I did that. And then I finally just kind of leapt into doing editorial. And that's what I did for about three years. And now.
00:07:11
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I'm back and my editorial work goes towards my podcast. I'm doing publicity stuff. I'm doing social for our clients back with the company I was with for about eight years and working with an agent on some book projects and other things. So it's a very exciting time. And it's kind of this is kind of my life. I go through this phase where, you know, I really focus heavily on something, see as far as I could take it.
00:07:38
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and then move on to whatever the next logical step is. But the through line has always been stories. No matter what I've done, it's always been stories in writing.
00:07:48
Speaker
Yeah, and I believe at this current recording, it was two
OCD and Focus: A Discussion
00:07:53
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episodes of your podcast ago where you talked about five things that you do to sort of get back on the rails or recover from a bad day. Part of it was you having laser-like focus on your work, not as a distraction necessarily, but as a way to just channel your energy into something that might positively feed you in a way and kind of get you back on track.
00:08:17
Speaker
Where did that laser-like focus come from? Probably my OCD. So, you know, if anyone listens to the podcast already, they already know that I'm a super anxious person, right? And I haven't been this way my whole life. I've dealt with anxiety and depression, you know, anxiety disorder for about a little over a decade now. When I was in high school, I'd never thought about that. I think back now when I think about times when I had, you know,
00:08:46
Speaker
It had episodes where I would be like, oh yeah, that was anxiety. I just never internalized it. But through my, throughout my whole life, I've always had a little bit of this OCD in me. This thing that I have to have, you know, the car, the seat for my car has to be in the exact same spot every time. I remember dating my wife for like, I don't know, two weeks and our first fight was about
00:09:10
Speaker
because we went to the ice cream place, right? We went to Rita's to go get frozen yogurt or ice cream, whatever it was. I love Rita's. Yeah, it's great, right? So I went out of the car and I went and got it. And I came back and she had moved my seat. And I was like, what the? It was, yeah, it was not a good first fight. And it gave her kind of a taste of my OCD. I'm much better with that kind of stuff now. I mean, when I was in college, I literally took a pen and drew around where my keyboard was on my desk.
00:09:41
Speaker
because I wanted to make sure I could get back in that same spot every time. So I think that part of the anxiety and the OCD that I have kind of in me makes me super focused. You know, Royce White talks about this not only in the podcast that I did with him, but also in the story I did with him, that what comes with his anxiety is something called hypervigilance.
00:10:04
Speaker
And he thinks that's what makes him a really good passer because he's able to see everything that's going on at the time. And that's kind of how it is with me for work. Like this hyper vigilance, this super focus on what I'm doing, I think makes me better at what I do.
Interview Techniques and Influences
00:10:20
Speaker
getting a little bit back to that moment in your life where you were doing the publicity but then you were pitching stories on the side and then you're throwing in those markets into your email signature as that snowballs. What was your first big one that you were proud to put in your email signature and how long did that take and what was that story and how did that manifest itself? That's a good question.
00:10:49
Speaker
big one was. I mean, the Royce White story will always be the biggest one to me because that one made the most noise. I still get emails about it. People still read it. And it's kind of put me on the path for what I'm doing now, you know, and what I feel like kind of my purpose is now is to work and write about that mental health space and kind of bring awareness to anxiety and depression and things like that. But
00:11:14
Speaker
I would say that I was lucky in the fact that since I was already in publicity, I knew a lot of journalists and a lot of editors because I worked with them to get them what they needed to do their stories. So, you know, being friendly with some of them, it was easy for me to reach out and say, can I cover this, which we're not covering. Do you guys hear I wrote this thing? What do you think? So I remember kind of the first people that gave me a shot
00:11:43
Speaker
when I, you know, I had written all these DVD reviews before, but that didn't really mean anything at that point. You know, it was like eight years later and they were just DVD reviews. There was nothing exciting about them. I said the first people that really gave me a shot were Eric Davis and Peter Hall, and they were at movies.com at the time. So for them, I just started writing. I started writing a column called Raising a Cinephile, which at the time, my daughter was my first daughter was very young.
00:12:12
Speaker
So it was really about me introducing her to all the old movies that I liked and all the kids movies that I liked when I was her age. So I started writing this column for them about that. And then more and more ideas came. So I wrote some listicles for them and a bunch of other stuff. And that was really the first one that went kind of into my signature, you know, this recurring column. And that is what kind of started the snowball. So I'm always thankful to those guys for kind of giving me a shot.
00:12:42
Speaker
to get my work out there and to start writing about things at a well-known site. That was really exciting, but at the end of the day, the two biggest stories that stand out to me are the Royce White story for Espination, because I got to work with Glenn Stout, and Glenn Stout's amazing. I'll always say that. He's an incredible editor, one of the best editors I worked with throughout my entire career. And just doing that story was great because, you know,
00:13:11
Speaker
There was a lot of moving pieces that had to fall into place for me to get that story. Just finding Royce was very difficult at the time. You know, he had done a couple stories with people. He had done Chuck Closterman had done one with him. And that was kind of the story that springboarded my idea. I read Chuck's story. And that was what kind of brought Royce White into my orbit. And I was like, wow, I got to write something about this guy and weave my own story into it.
00:13:41
Speaker
I gotta figure out how to get this done. So I started writing the pitch, and I pitched Glenn, and he loved it right away. And he said, this whole thing rests on if you can get Royce to talk to you. If you can get that, you have a story. And I said, okay. And then I spent the next week tracking Royce down through his publicist, and then there was another publicist. And I still talk to Royce today, and it's still just as difficult to track him down.
00:14:11
Speaker
Literally was we I did the podcast with Royce not too long ago right a few weeks ago and Literally called the number that I had in in my phone for him to talk about the episode this was before we were recording and I got his mom and she's like who is this I'm like Royce told me to call him and
00:14:32
Speaker
I had his old number, I guess, that he gave to his mother. And I was like, oh, well, nice, really nice talking to you, Mrs. White. So he's a difficult dude to track down. But back then I had to jump through hoops just trying to find somebody that, you know, was still in contact with him and could get me on the phone with him. And then it just worked out. So I got really, really lucky.
00:14:54
Speaker
How were you able to convince Royce that your story was a little different than the one Chuck did and get him on board so you could write the story you wanted to write? I think that the thing that that immediately got to Royce was the fact that I was very open about the fact that I also dealt with anxiety. You know, the story was literally this is from the very beginning. I had never changed was it was called I am Royce White, you know, kind of me putting myself in his shoes.
00:15:24
Speaker
And I think that when he first heard that I was, you know, I had some good credits at the time. I had landed a couple of good places. I think I was writing for Complex and a couple other places at the time. So I had the credentials, but then he also heard that I was an anxious dude and I dealt with anxiety and I anxiety disorder and I wanted to bring kind of light to it and tell his side of the story.
00:15:50
Speaker
Because at the time, he was getting a lot of heat. You know, there was a lot of people out there saying, well, he's just being a prima donna or he's being a baby and stuff like that. And I wanted to tell the story of this is what it's actually like to live and work with anxiety disorder. And I think he really gravitated towards that. So once I got to him, it was no problem. Like I knew the first time I talked to him that he was going to be on board for it. And like I said, we still talk today. So
00:16:20
Speaker
He understands where I'm coming from and I think I understand where he's coming from in a lot of ways. Yeah, you're probably the only, or one of the few who are actually speaking his vocabulary for this. And the best thing you could do with a guy like Groyce is to let him talk. He has a lot to say and he has a lot of interesting things to say about different things, different subjects. So you ask him questions and you let him talk. And he tells the story himself really well.
00:16:46
Speaker
That's something I've noticed by listening to your show and your skill as an interviewer. You have a really great skill that I listen to a lot of interview podcasts just as a way of me just taking notes and kind of being a student of asking questions and interviewing.
00:17:07
Speaker
You're one of the best because you're not, I'm proving my point of the people I don't like, I'm being very long winded. You're not very long winded. You set it up well, you ask the question, then you get out of the way. There's no post-amble, as I like to call it. Some people ask a question, then there's all these post-amble. And I wonder, how did you learn and hone that skill so you could go to Royce, ask the question, and then get out of the way so he can tell the story? It took me a while.
00:17:37
Speaker
I had a lot of advantages when I started really going into writing, really concentrating on it because not only was I a publicist, but I had sat in on plenty of interviews with people as a publicist. So we would set up the interview and then I would listen in and connect our clients with the journalists. So I would get to hear all these different journalists asking questions in their own way and doing things like that.
Inspiration Behind the Podcast
00:18:03
Speaker
So there were several years of me listening to interviews.
00:18:06
Speaker
So I would get the kind of that perspective. And then when I started writing, I started interviewing all these different people. And I noticed that there are way too many people out there that do interviews that think that the interview is about them. And it's not. I don't want to be the subject unless I'm the subject. Like the Royce White story specifically has me as a subject of the story.
00:18:32
Speaker
So I felt a little bit more able to put myself in there and not worry as much about it. But when I'm interviewing a celebrity or a famous person, nobody cares what I think. They want to just hear the answer. So you ask the question, then you listen. The one of the most powerful things in the world is listening. And I learned this probably all the way back from a boss of mine when I was, you know,
00:19:01
Speaker
16 years old My best friend's dad hired me at the pharmaceutical company and I learned a ton of things from him But one of the main things I learned from him was to be quiet he's a very very loud guy like he's boisterous and loud and you know, he'll yell and When we were kids the way he would call us in was he would literally whistle and you'd hear him all the way down the street right and that that's how we knew it was time to come home, but as a boss I
00:19:28
Speaker
He said, you have to not talk so much when you're in a meeting. I was a buyer at the time. So I had to negotiate prices. I had to negotiate deals for us to get the best price. And one of the best ways to do that is to just be a little bit uncomfortable. Sit there and just don't say anything. And watch how quickly people start to tell you things that they don't realize they're telling you or fall into deals that they don't realize they're giving you a better deal than they might have because they're awkward.
00:19:58
Speaker
Most people don't understand how, you know, how to deal with that awkward silence. So for me, I found that the best way to get really good answers is one, to come up with great questions, questions that they may not have been asked before. You know, listen, I interviewed Kathy Bates, I've interviewed Mel Brooks. These people have been interviewed so many times, right? Literally, probably thousands of times in their careers.
00:20:28
Speaker
What am I going to ask them? That's that's different. You know, they get the same questions all the time. So my goal is always to come up with a question they may not have heard before or an interesting take on that question. And then once I ask the question, shut up and let them talk. Just let them talk, you know, let them get out whatever they need to get out and give them an extra beat at the end, because one, they may have something else to say.
00:20:55
Speaker
Two, they may try to fill that awkward silence with something that's really interesting. And three, nobody cares what I'm going to say anyway. So just let them talk. And that's kind of been my philosophy since then. You know, I don't do as much writing now. I don't do as much journalism as I had before, at least not the very moment. Right. I've I went through kind of a weird last three years.
00:21:21
Speaker
to be the place I am now. And one of the reasons I started the podcast was to be able to interview people and talk again, because that was what I missed most about writing. You know, I was editing for the past two years and I wasn't really writing anything. And the main thing I missed was talking to people, interviewing people. And the podcast allows me to do that. Now, I've just talked a lot, but usually my goal when you're the subject. Yeah, I'm a subject here, so I guess it's OK.
00:21:50
Speaker
When it's my podcast, I really do try to just get out of the way and let the people shine because that's what people are there to listen to. They're not there to hear me unless it's me doing a solo episode.
00:22:01
Speaker
Right, right. And when you were developing that skill and that eavesdropping on certain journalists and noticing who was good and who was bad, and then even stepping more into the recorded limelight of having your own podcast, who did you look to to model your interviewing style after? So it resonated with your taste and subsequently, you know, you know, your listeners would come be along for it.
00:22:29
Speaker
I mean, the right answer would be like Terry Gross, right? Everybody's like, that's who you should say. And while I do appreciate her and I like her, I like her style, the person that probably comes to mind is Howard Stern. And not because I, you know, I agree with or appreciate everything that he's done or or does, but the way he interviews people is brilliant. And he does kind of exactly
00:23:00
Speaker
what I said is just let them tell their story and give them the space. He sets them up in a way where he'll ask a question that sets them up to say something interesting. You know, so that's the person that when I was I don't listen to him anymore, honestly, because I don't have serious and I just I don't have time. I'd rather listen to podcasts right now. But I grew up listening to him. And just the way he would talk to people just seemed like he was just sitting down chatting with like a buddy.
00:23:28
Speaker
And that felt like a good way for me to approach interviewing at first. So that was kind of, I guess my model was Howard Stern's method of interviewing. Was there a specific length to his question that you think worked best? Did he get out of the way quickly? Or was there a big, like you were saying, a big setup to let them go? What did you notice most about that?
00:23:55
Speaker
In my experience, it was the way he made them feel comfortable. And that's something that I've always tried to do because a lot of times when you deal with celebrities or actors or actresses, they do not have a lot of time. You know, you'll get 15, 20 minutes max. If you're doing a phone or with somebody, if you're doing a big profile, you go sit at their house for a day or whatever. But most of the time when you're just doing a small story, you get 15 to 20 minutes max, you need to get in there.
00:24:23
Speaker
Immediately establish a report with someone that you don't know and they don't know you at all All they know of you is that you're a journalist and they've talked to a million journalists and they expect to get 50 of the same questions So you not only do you have to immediately just create a rapport with someone but then you have to use that and Kind of just try to be I don't want to say charming charming is not the right word but use a
00:24:49
Speaker
that rapport that you've created in the first two, three minutes of that call at most to be able to make them feel comfortable. Because when they feel comfortable, that's when they're going to be fun, they're going to be gracious, they're going to talk to you. And I think that's what I got most from him was just he just made people feel comfortable. You know, even when he was making them feel uncomfortable because of the antics on the show, they still felt like they were kind of in a safe space being with a guy who just seems like another normal guy.
00:25:17
Speaker
You know, so that was always my tactic when I would get on these interviews with people was Immediately try to ingratiate myself with them not in a sleazy way like I don't want to lie to anybody If I don't like their work, I'm not obviously one. I probably wouldn't be interviewing them anyway because I always try to stick to things that I feel good about like There's no reason for me to do a teardown. I'm never interested in teardowns I would rather tell you about something I like then spend time wasting wasting my time talking about something I hate so
00:25:47
Speaker
I would tell them, you know, either about a project that I loved or a very interesting project that most people don't talk about. Like I believe, for instance, I once interviewed Cloris Leachman and most of the interview was about this one silly TV movie that was just like, no one has probably asked her about this TV movie in 30 years.
00:26:11
Speaker
And I love this TV TV movie. So immediately me telling her that kind of put her in my court. Like she was like, oh, this kid, not only does he know his stuff, but he's also interested in my entire career. That's a good way to establish that rapport. So that's what I always tried to do. And I think that's even right now. Still, that's what I try to do, you know, make make people feel comfortable and make them understand that they're the subject of this story because they're an interesting person.
00:26:40
Speaker
much more interesting than me. And how does your style change when you know you've got say just 15 minutes and maybe they're a bit long winded versus a longer form interview when you can have some throat clearing and you can have that leeway? It's difficult, especially because when you have that 15, 20 minutes with somebody,
00:27:03
Speaker
A lot of times, too, you need to focus on whatever they're promoting, you know, or whatever you're writing about, because that's usually the subject of your story. You know, nobody's writing about. I don't know. Nobody's writing about Kevin Bacon when he doesn't have anything coming out because he's just being Kevin Bacon. He's just being a normal human dude. But if Kevin Bacon has a movie coming out now, you're going to talk to him about that movie. My goal was always right away establish the rapport, then
00:27:32
Speaker
get into specific questions about that movie or that project because it's their job to promote it. Right. So they want to make sure that they want to make sure that you're getting in there and asking questions about that movie or that show or whatever it is they're promoting because then they know they've done their job. Right. So once you've covered that, at least a few questions, you know, quick questions, then
00:27:58
Speaker
You can go on to ask them pretty much whatever you want. You know, obviously you don't want to ask them rude personal questions. Some people do, but that's not my thing. I really don't care. You know, I always I always told people when I was setting up interviews was that I had no interest in gossipy celebrity gossip. I would always do that. And then I would try to finish the the interview with a question or two that was. A little bit more broad.
00:28:27
Speaker
but something they probably haven't been asked. So I would sometimes ask, what's the best advice they've ever gotten? Or, you know, what's their favorite memory of Christmas? If it was something about Christmas, like, what's your favorite Christmas memory? You know, or something like that. And those are always the best stories because they don't get asked that stuff that often. So they usually have a story saved up somewhere in their brain. And two, it reminds them of when they were kids, you know, like, that's exciting.
00:28:57
Speaker
That's exciting for them to be able to talk about something they don't normally talk about. I remember interviewing Dennis Haskins. I don't remember exactly what it was for, but I remember I was going back to all the people I interviewed and I was putting together a Christmas memory story for Parade at the time. So I would go back to them and be like, I just need like a quick anecdote. And that set him off on like a 20 minute Christmas story, which was fantastic. And then
00:29:25
Speaker
Afterwards, he emails me pictures from it when he was a kid playing with trains in his basement. You know, so it's a chance for them to talk about something they don't usually talk about, which is exciting for them. That was always kind of the way I walked myself through interviews. You know, if you're talking about how to kind of move on, if someone's rambling, it's a lot more difficult. And sometimes you can approach it in like a soft way, you can try to like just pivot out of it, you could
00:29:55
Speaker
You could say, oh, yeah, I agree. But or, yo, I agree. And write the yes and thing. Yeah. Yeah. Or you could be a little bit more heavy handed and just say a lot of times if that's happening, sometimes the publicist will even step in and say, OK, two more questions. So at that point, they know that they've got a hustle, you know, so you could just kind of stop them and say, you know, I want to be respectful of your time, but can I ask this last question or something like that? I still do that now, you know.
00:30:24
Speaker
Even after 45 minutes with somebody else, they'll be like, I want to be respectful of your time, but I have one more question. And they almost always say yes, you know? For sure. And when you were starting or wanted to step onto that ledge and start your own podcast, which ones had you been listening to that you're like, oh, those are probably good ones to kind of model mine after in my own niche.
00:30:50
Speaker
I wasn't listening to a lot in the mental health space, to be honest with you. I felt like there was, there were some out there. You know, there are a couple anxiety podcasts, but most of them are solo podcasts.
Mental Health Podcast Goals
00:31:05
Speaker
You know, the guys, it's mostly guys, mostly guys talking about what they're dealing with or, or giving tips on how to deal with it. And I didn't want to do that. I wanted it to be about, you know, some episodes would be about me or some tips.
00:31:20
Speaker
Some episodes would have tips. Those episodes actually do fairly well. They do pretty well considering. But most importantly, I wanted it to be, and this is why my main goal right from the beginning was to put it in the tagline, was to say a weekly podcast about mental health, incredible people and more. The most important thing to me was incredible people. I wanted to make this show about people that could come and talk about what they're experts about
00:31:50
Speaker
or what they're experts on, discuss those topics, talk about themselves, because they're much more interesting than I am. These are the interesting people, and I wanted to focus on them. So I would say that it wasn't really in the mental health space that the podcast that I really loved and listened to a lot were This American Life, obviously. That was the one that always gets me.
00:32:18
Speaker
I mean, they could tell them the craziest story. Like, the one story that always comes to mind for me was the one about, um, bung hole, pig bung hole, where they, I don't remember who the, who the, who the, um, journalist was, but they went and basically wanted to see if they could tell the difference between real calamari and pig bung hole. I don't remember what episode it is, but it's a great episode. I listened to all the other popular ones like cereal and,
00:32:48
Speaker
But that was probably the biggest one. I just loved. Ira Glass is a genius, you know, like the way he handles interviews, the way he talks to people. That's another one that I modeled myself after. I think I tried to at least was was that. And outside of podcasts, I think that a big influence on me was documentaries.
00:33:12
Speaker
Obviously, you know, I worked in film. I'm working in film now as a publicist, you know, mostly doing social now, but cinema TV, that's like my bread and butter, right? If you go in my basement, all the all the walls are lined with DVDs. So documentary for me was huge, like, you know, Werner Herzog, Aral Morris. Aral Morris, to me, is like like the pinnacle of interviewers, you know,
00:33:43
Speaker
Documentarians. So things like Thin Blue Line, stuff like that really had an influence on me in a way that you could take a subject, get an answer, and shape it through editing or asking the right questions. Shape it in a way that makes their answer not only interesting, but even more interesting than it would have been if you just sat there and listened to them tell it. So I love
00:34:11
Speaker
I love documentaries, man. That's great to me. I love that kind of stuff. I have a love-hate relationship with Netflix right now because documentaries. I mean, I'm glad they're there and they put out these great documentaries, but I also hate the fact that they're putting out documentaries that seem like they're from people who are documentarians and they're really just people advertising something.
00:34:35
Speaker
And the thing that's scary is that people that don't realize that, like a lot of these food documentaries that are out there, if you look at the production credits, you'll see that it's like a lobbyist or it's like a food group lobby making this film. And people don't look at that kind of stuff when they see it on Netflix. They're just watching it and then of course they're believing it. So that's scary for me. If you're like Zero Dreams of Sushi, you'll like this and then you don't realize that. Exactly.
00:35:05
Speaker
They're selling you something, you know what's interesting about the the inspirations that you've noted is that the the way that those are structured and
Incorporating Personal Experiences
00:35:17
Speaker
the way the interviews inform those Shows is that mostly and Ira's Ira Glasses is this is like his true genius really is that they
00:35:29
Speaker
there the way they interview is they get the person to talk in terms of narrative and scenes and that's that's it and they get them talking in story and then they're able to shape that into a larger narrative so I think that's as a storyteller I'm sure that's what's really resonating with you is that they're building these story blocks through the course of a compelling interview yeah absolutely I mean you know I didn't
00:35:58
Speaker
I didn't read a ton of non-fiction when I was younger. I was really a fiction guy, you know? I went to college and I was writing short stories thinking I was like Raven Carver. I would write stories that literally would, literally would kind of just mirror Carver. Everyone does this, right? Every writer does this at some point. But I would just mirror Carver in my own way and think it was brilliant when it really wasn't brilliant. It wasn't very good.
00:36:28
Speaker
You know, I read fiction over and over and over again. And it wasn't until like the past decade or so that I really started focusing on nonfiction more and journalism. But there was always documentaries there and always storytelling in some way. That was interesting in the mimicry of of Carver. How did you eventually develop your own voice as a writer? That's a good question.
00:36:59
Speaker
I think that, you know, you use that it's kind of the same template for like artists, right, you learn the rules, and then you break them. So you mimic all these people, you learn all the rules of fiction or nonfiction. And then you kind of once you've kind of mastered those rules, then you can, you can muck with them a little bit. So I think the way that it came to me was
00:37:27
Speaker
I've just tried to always bring something of myself into my story. I don't want to make myself the focus of a story unless I specifically want to, like the Royce story. That was specifically structured so that it was telling both of our stories. But most stories are not about me. But they still have my point of view in them. You know what I mean? Like just back as far as I was telling you before with raising a cinephile,
00:37:55
Speaker
That was a column that I created to basically tell my stories about the movies that I loved through the eyes of my kid now. I think that the thing that separates what I do from what somebody else might do is that I always try to take a little bit of me. Even if it's so subtle that the normal person wouldn't see it when they're reading, that little bit of me is still in the story in some way.
Balancing Full-Time Job and Writing
00:38:26
Speaker
And when you were developing this voice and hanging up your own shingle, so to speak, of course, being in this line of work is stressful. Sometimes you don't, there's delayed payment, you don't know when your check is gonna come, it might never come, and there's all that fighting and infighting. How did, in the midst of any self-doubt and anxiety that you were experiencing just from the work itself,
00:38:55
Speaker
How did like who might have been like that, that gentle hand on the soldier shoulder? Who was that person? And maybe who gave you the permission to keep going when things were bleak? I'm too much of an anxious person to ever, you know, I've said this a couple times in the past, I could have easily gone full time freelance and probably done okay. You know, and there was a few times where I was close to doing that.
00:39:23
Speaker
but I'm way too anxious of a person to not have a steady paycheck of a full-time job. So luckily for me, I've always had a full-time job and then I do all of my writing on the weekends and nights. So I just work really, really hard. You know what I mean? Like, I want to make something happen and I just work really hard to do it because
00:39:49
Speaker
I know I have my full-time job and my full-time job is always my number one priority, no matter where I am. Even if I'm very unhappy at that full-time job, which came into play in the last two years or so before I was able to come back to the incredible company I'm at now, that full-time job is always still the number one priority. So I just work really hard afterwards, nights and weekends, probably to a detriment.
00:40:14
Speaker
So that eases my anxiety, having that to fall back on. But, you know, also, I've got a wife and two kids who, you know, they rely on me, they rely on my income. So I know that I'm going to keep going no matter what. Like, even if I'm anxious, I'm going to sit there and write the story. You know, I'm going to get it done. I hate I know that a lot of people say they love writing.
00:40:38
Speaker
I literally hate writing. I hate writing. I'm so glad to hear you say that. I do. I hate it. I mean, I don't understand how anyone likes it. On the other hand, I love having written. There is no high in the world as good of a high as when you get something published like and that was the cool thing about like that was the cool thing about doing freelance writing for
00:41:06
Speaker
all these different places was that almost every single day I would have a story hit another site or a story, you know, in another print magazine or something. It was that constant rush of like, wow, this new thing came out. I could share it with people and people would be excited about it. People would like it, you know. So I hate writing. It's grueling it.
00:41:34
Speaker
You know, at the end of the day, I'm glad to be able to do it. I'm thankful I'm able to do it to get my story down and feel like I'm kind of making an impact in some way. But it's grueling, man. It's like, it's like gnawing your fingers off. It's horrible. But then when it's done, it's the most beautiful thing in the world.
00:41:56
Speaker
Where do you feel most engaged and maybe find the most joy in the process? So, you know, you love having written. So, you know, where in that process do you feel most engaged and most alive? Probably right after I start. The start is very difficult. Obviously, the blank page is like the blank page is impossible, right?
00:42:23
Speaker
So you look at the blank page and every single notebook I have, I have a ton of notebooks. Everybody does. Millions of notebooks. Every single notebook I have, the first thing I do is open them up and I write, the first line is always the hardest. This gets it out of the way. In every notebook. So every notebook you find in my house, you'll see that's the first line in every single one. Because all of a sudden the page isn't blank anymore. You know what I mean?
00:42:52
Speaker
And I love the idea. I love taking an idea that came to my head and shaping that very beginning of it. Like a lot of people hate writing leads. I love writing leads that that doesn't bother me at all. It's all the muck afterwards. That's the hard part. You know, trudging through four or five, six pages of story.
00:43:13
Speaker
And then editing. I used to hate editing like with a passion. I hate. I always thought everything I wrote was perfect the first time. Right. So many people. But then I found good editors, people like Glenn Stout and people like Mike Ayers, who I worked with when he was at Rolling Stone. He's now at Money and he just has a book coming out next year from Abrams. Such a good dude and such a great editor.
00:43:40
Speaker
People like Mark Graham at decider.com. Really, really good editors made me love editing. They just made my story. KJ Delantonia, who has a book coming out in August called how to be a happier parent. She was the editor at the mother load blog on New York times.com. Fantastic editor. She also has a great podcast with Jess Leahy called hashtag am writing.
00:44:09
Speaker
OK, that's her. Like Jess has been on my show a couple of times. And yeah, so I know Jess and that's that's great that there's that connection there. You should have her on for the for the new book. Yeah, it's really good. I'm reading it now because I'm going to be talking to her soon, but it's really good. Anyway, so she's a great editor. So really, really good editors made me like editing my stories because they showed me how I could make it better.
00:44:37
Speaker
And they showed me how I could take something that was okay and turn it into something that was really good.
00:45:00
Speaker
is actually the winnowing down. It's like you want your set to have six-pack abs. And in order to get six-pack abs, it's like you have to get rid of a lot of things that you really love to get that. So you might even have great material, but you've got to be so Spartan-esque with your, and ruthless with edits, like throwing things that are really good onto the cutting room floor to get to the oar of it all.
00:45:25
Speaker
If
Editing and Podcast Growth Strategies
00:45:26
Speaker
you want six pack abs, like forget drinking IPAs, you know, it's, you know, forget dessert, forget all the great food out there if you really want to have that chiseled look. And so to get your work chiseled, it's like, yeah, you got to get rid of the fat, but you got to get rid of even some good stuff, too. Yeah. Listen, I would love to have six pack abs. And I think my wife would love it if I had six pack abs.
00:45:50
Speaker
Um, I just went to the doctor this morning to get my refill on my medications, you know, because I'm an anxious dude and medication is okay. If you need it, you need it. So anyway, so I went there and turns out I'm a little overweight. This is something I've known for the last few years. So this is no surprise, but it's totally true. You have to, right? It's the cliche, kill your darlings. You have to kill your darlings sometimes. And there are so many that I think are so perfect.
00:46:19
Speaker
But these good editors, Kate Rope is another one. Kate Rope is great. She has a book that recently came out as well. Fantastic editor. They just pushed me in the right direction to say you don't need this. It's OK to let that piece go. And it's better. So you know what else? And honestly, this is a weird connection, but I'm a huge horror movie buff. Like there's two loves that I have when it comes to cinema and TV.
00:46:48
Speaker
and that's horror and animation. So I look at horror movies from the 80s, which I believe in my heart is the greatest decade of horror movies. And almost all of them are very short. 80, 90 minutes, most. Get in and get out, you know? You really have to know how to cut. It's unfortunate that you have to sometimes.
00:47:12
Speaker
But on the other hand, don't ever lose anything. I save everything. You should see some of my drafts from things. I have literally every single cut is a new save. My hard drive is full of stories that are like one, two, three, four, five. Because every time I cut something, I relabel it because I never want to lose a piece because I may be able to use it later on.
00:47:34
Speaker
Yeah. Similarly, if, oh, if I'm making big cuts like that, I have each story will have a scrap pile or a scrap file. So if I can cut, I'll just cut and paste it into that document. So like I can see like the garbage over here.
00:47:50
Speaker
and oftentimes those little nuggets, those could lead to something else or it's good to know that it was there. It's like what Hemingway always said about the iceberg below the water. It's like you have to write that stuff. You can't cut the fat before you put it onto the page. You actually, it has to be written even if it's gonna get lost because the pulse and the energy of that stuff you cut will come through the work, but it's gotta be there first in order for it to actually pulse through the whole piece.
00:48:20
Speaker
I'm a chronic overwriter. If someone tells me I have 400 words, I'm going to write them 800. And that's my own fault. But I'm very upfront about this with it with the editors I've worked with. I've said in the past, I'm like, listen, I'm I'm a chronic overwriter. I always put too much in. But I always feel like that's fine because we could take it out. You know, I'm not going to if someone gives me 1500 words, I'm not going to write them 6000. But there's a good chance I'm going to probably give them 2500 rather than 1500. And it's just who I am, you know,
00:48:50
Speaker
But I'm never going to lose those other thousand. They're always going to be there somewhere in case I need them later on. Yeah. And with respect to your podcast, it's such a great show for one. And I'd love to get a sense of why you wanted to do it.
00:49:12
Speaker
the storytelling around the show and how you were able to promote it so well and the tinder you were able to throw on that fire, because it really caught fire. I think it even caught you off guard how much momentum it garnered early on. So maybe you can maybe talk to or speak to the strategies you've used to tell the story of the podcast that subsequently helped the podcast grow and gain traction.
00:49:41
Speaker
The reason I wanted to start the podcast was because it was because of the fact that I was still getting emails about the Roy story. And I was still getting emails about the story I wrote that Psychology Today reran. Anxiety makes the holidays harder. And I still get emails about all these mental health stories that I've written more than any other story. And that told me that people are looking for help. People are looking for somebody to tell them that they're just like them.
00:50:11
Speaker
And I am just like them. So I wanted to combine the fact that I really wanted to help people and I seem to be able to do it previously with the written word. So I wanted to be able to do that in the podcast form. Two, I wanted to talk to really interesting people on a regular basis. And three, I wanted to be able to use my ability to kind of just put myself out there and share. I've always been an over sharer.
00:50:41
Speaker
I just I really never care what people think, to be honest. So I've always kind of been very open about talking about whatever I'm going through or whatever, you know, whatever bothers me. I don't care what people think at all. I wanted to be able to put that in as well. And then right away, I knew that I wanted the tagline. I knew what the name of the podcast would be. I knew the tagline and then I knew I needed to get good branding.
00:51:10
Speaker
So I did all this ahead of time. So I started the Instagram for this page about a month before the actual podcast was to launch. So I started this Instagram, started building it up just with like quotes from books that I've read on anxiety or mental health and tagging those people with their quotes. And then I got the logo done by somebody who had previously done another logo for me.
00:51:41
Speaker
I went back to them and they did it and I loved it. I think the colors are beautiful. I love the fact that it's green because green is the mental health awareness color. And then I posted that. So I was building up to this before the first episode even dropped. And then. The tagline had to be like short, concise and told what this podcast is about, because the title itself is a little bit
00:52:09
Speaker
It's a little too small of a box, right? So I didn't want people to think it was just about anxiety, which Anxiety Diaries podcast would make you think it is. So what I wanted to make sure was that the tagline delivered the fact that it's a mental health podcast and not just an anxiety podcast and that it's also about interesting people so people can expect to see interviews. People can expect to hear from other people other than just me.
00:52:38
Speaker
So I had all those elements in place. And then when I launched the podcast, I wanted to make sure that I had two or three episodes ready to go right from the beginning. So when I launched, I launched with one the first day. And then I think two or three days later, I followed up with two more. And that really kind of gave it a lot of momentum. And the most important thing to the growth of this podcast so far, Instagram has been big.
00:53:07
Speaker
We have a smaller following on Facebook and Twitter. I don't believe that they've contributed quite as much. Instagram took off in a way I never expected. I did not expect to have 20,000 followers on Instagram at this point. But it obviously just goes to show that people are looking for someone to connect with in this space, right?
00:53:25
Speaker
Yeah. And how are you because the pictures and the graphics that you shared Instagram with regularity, I think, are very engaging and supportive. So how did you come to that? Like, what are you using there to design these quotes and everything that help help drive people to the to the site and the and just make people feel good? Yeah, so I wanted them, you know, I found this kind of formula from
00:53:54
Speaker
there's a whole niche out there of motivational Instagram pages that are huge, right? And they're all kind of doing their own thing. They motivate people either in business or success or you see a lot with like suit and tie guy, right? Suit and tie guy and then like a quote on it that says, work your butt off. And those are cool. That's fine if that's what your niche is. But I wanted it to be something specifically related to mental health and I wanted it to be
00:54:22
Speaker
I wanted the photos to be different than that. I didn't want them to be just people in suits or successful people. I wanted them to be beautiful photos. And luckily, there are a lot of royalty free royalty free beautiful photos out there. So I'm very well versed in Photoshop, like extremely well versed. And you would think that would be my go to to create them. And that was what I started with.
00:54:47
Speaker
But then I discovered a couple other apps that make it so much easier. Adobe has one that is not only on the web, but it's also a mobile app. It's called Adobe Spark. And they have a video and a photo app, one on the other. I don't use the video one, but the photo one is great. It makes it super easy to put text on photos to go through the royalty free library that they use from Unsplash and Pixabay and other places like that.
00:55:17
Speaker
Find the photo you need that's already telling you it's royalty free so you can use it or creative commons or whatever it is. You know your mileage may vary so you want to check to make sure you're using the right stuff. But that and then just a combination of like other apps if I need things tweaked here and there. But that's the main one that I use. I've been using the over app quite a bit lately. O V E R.
00:55:42
Speaker
And that app's really good. It has the same kind of group of royalty free photos you can use, but it also, there's like a pay service for that if you want to use some of their fonts and upload your own fonts and all this stuff. And I already pay for Adobe because I pay for Photoshop every month, you know? Yeah. So it's much easier for me to use that. But that's how I make the images. And I really just want to.
Engagement and Audience Connection
00:56:06
Speaker
I really just want to make people realize that one, they're not alone and two, that it's OK to feel the way they feel.
00:56:12
Speaker
And three, that it's okay to be positive. Like, I'm not trying to, you know, positive somebody into feeling better, because that's not how it works. Like, I don't, I don't think I'm gonna fix anybody with these images, right? But I can tell you this, since I started posting these images, I've been doing a little bit less the past week or two, right? I've slowed down a little bit. But for the first three months or so,
00:56:37
Speaker
It was two posts per day, at least seven days a week, every day. So people knew it was consistent. They knew when to come back for images. It was always showing up on their feed. And two, I've started feeling more positive, creating, just creating these images. You know, I've told this story a bunch of times now about the, the smile experiment.
00:57:02
Speaker
You know, back in the 70s, they took people and they were seeing what made them happier. It was a big, huge experiment. I've talked about this before, but they put a pencil in their mouth. Like you put a pencil sideways in your mouth and it makes you naturally smile. And physiologically, those people started feeling happier. Their endorphins went up. And that's just because they were smiling, whether they wanted to or not, just because the pencil was in their mouth. So for me, these are like that pencil.
00:57:30
Speaker
just the creation of these images, the posting of these images. And I think on the other end, the people seeing these images every day just makes them feel better. At least it makes me feel better. And, you know, if that's enough for me. Yeah. Oh, they make me feel better, too. I love it. I'm like, this is cool. Like Scott's in my corner. Yeah. And you know what? They're really shareable. Like people love them because I'll tell you what.
00:57:54
Speaker
they get so many saves and that's probably why the page grew as big as it did as fast as it did because obviously we all know Instagram when you get likes and comments they they send your picture out to more people in your feed you know the reach goes up and I also believe that they heavily take into account saves the little bookmark and these things are tailor made for that like you know you see this
00:58:23
Speaker
Do you want to save it because it's not a specific person, as you've probably noticed over the past month or so, I've really started to focus just on silhouettes and almost every picture is a silhouette. And that's because one, I don't want it to be. It's like if you put a famous actor in like a cameo, you know what I mean? You don't want them. You don't want that actor to overshine kind of. Yeah. But by people saying, oh, that's, you know, Dan Aykroyd or somebody like that.
00:58:51
Speaker
I want it to be kind of faceless. I want these people that are reading this to be able to put themselves in the place of these silhouettes. So that's kind of the approach I've taken and it's done pretty well.
00:59:07
Speaker
how quickly the podcast has galvanized and rallied a subset of people. I'm sure some people would feel overwhelmed by it and all of a sudden you start feeling the weight of that audience. It wasn't very gradual. You had a hockey stick moment very early. How have you internally processed that as you've gone forward? I don't know if I have.
00:59:37
Speaker
It's it is difficult. It is difficult and I've talked about this in previous episodes. I think a little bit The episode with Bailey who has a hundred dozen followers on Instagram at anxiety support That in that episode with her we both kind of talked about it a little bit is that there is a lot of pressure like once you start getting people DMing you all day asking for help or asking questions and
01:00:02
Speaker
It does make it hard because you want to just being the person you are, you want to help everything go on. You want to answer every single question and that's not easy. So there is, you know, there is a bit of guilt sometimes in that I didn't expect the podcast to do as well as it did. I thought it would do well. I thought it would do okay.
01:00:25
Speaker
But I did not expect it to take off the way it did. And I do have to say that a lot of the credit for the way not not necessarily the Instagram, but the podcast itself, a lot of the credit for how much traction the podcast has gotten since it launched in April has to go to my guests because they've all been really, really cool and really, really good about sharing, sharing their episodes.
01:00:51
Speaker
And that brings in new people every single time. The biggest number one contributor to the growth of the podcast was having Sarah Wilson on the podcast. Sarah Wilson, the author of First We Make the Beast Beautiful, she shared the podcast on her Instagram page when it went up. And the next two days were like 2,000 download days, 2,000 downloads each for those two days.
01:01:19
Speaker
And it has not stopped since then. Every single episode since hers has done really, really well. So I have, and that was one that I never thought I'd get. I tweeted like five different times. How do I get Sarah Wilson on the podcast? And do you know how I got her on the podcast? She saw the tweet and she reached out to her publicist, you know, that we were publishing First We Make the Beast Beautiful in the US. And she reached out to her publicist and her publicist emailed me.
01:01:49
Speaker
and said, do you want to have her on the podcast? I said, hell yeah. When you're asking that, how are you asking your guests to share their episode or are they just doing that when you blast it out and then they retweet or repost or reshare?
01:02:05
Speaker
I try to make it really super easy for them. My goal in everything I do is always to make a turnkey for everybody else. So not only do I put together all the elements, you know, the photos, the videos, you've seen the videos I use, you know, not only in Instagram stories, but Instagram feed, IGTV, I put together all this stuff myself. And then I literally make it like
01:02:30
Speaker
Super turnkey if it's a video and it's bigger I'll put it in like a Dropbox link and then I'll send the email saying Here's the Dropbox link for the photos and they're all labeled super specifically so you can't screw up where it's gonna go, right? And then I'll say here's the text that I'm gonna use feel free to use it or use whatever you want Just make sure you include this link so
01:02:54
Speaker
For each episode, I create a specific link on the website that redirects to the iTunes page because 99.9% of my podcast downloads are from iTunes. At that point, I do have a good amount from Spotify and a good amount from Anchor, but 99% are from iTunes. So at this point, I direct everybody to iTunes.
01:03:19
Speaker
If for some reason they don't use iTunes, they can go to the website and find their way to whatever one they want to use it on or search for it however they want. But it's way too big of an audience not to focus on iTunes. So almost every episode now I send out the link. That link goes directly to Apple Podcasts. But with them, it's just really making it as easy as possible for them to not have to do any work.
01:03:47
Speaker
You know what I mean? Just copy and paste and that's it. They're done. How is the podcast sort of energized in and energize you in doing it and how is it maybe changed your, I don't know, just your outlook on, on, on things as you've, you know, your what, nine, 19 or so episodes in at this point, like, how, how has it affected you as, as, as you've been doing this project since April?
Podcast Fulfillment and Community
01:04:16
Speaker
It's made me realize how many people are out there that need help or want help or want to talk or have questions that you didn't realize. I knew there were a lot of people that are anxious. I knew there were a lot of people that needed help, especially in the mental health space, but I did not realize how many people just had simple questions. You know, I make it very clear that I'm not a psychologist. I'm not a doctor. I'm not a medical professional. If you need help,
01:04:46
Speaker
from one of those two people go and get that help. I'm not that person. But if you have a simple question that isn't medical related, but is really, you know, related to how I've experienced something, I'm always happy to answer it. And I get DMS every day now asking me, you know, this one girl, like last week, DM me saying that, you know, there's this girl that she knows that used to be her friend and is now bullying her. And
01:05:13
Speaker
She's going to spread this horrible rumor about her. She didn't tell me specifically what it was. And she said, I don't know what to do. What can I do? I don't know where this girl was from. So I said to her. I said, did you tell someone in authority? Did you tell your mother or your father? She said, I can't. I can't tell my mother or my father. She said, my mom has too much to deal with on her own. She's sick. And if I tell her, it will make her more sick. And I said,
01:05:39
Speaker
I have two kids. I know what it's like to be a parent. I said, your mother loves you. Your mother wants you to tell her. She wants to help you. I said, I don't care how sick she is because I wouldn't care how sick I was if my kids needed help. You got to tell your mother.
01:05:59
Speaker
And she goes, OK, well, and then like two days later, she DM me back and she goes, thank you so much. I told my mother and she said, my mother made me feel so much better. She just told me, don't worry about that girl. That girl, you know, she's going to say this and no one's going to believe her because everybody knows how good you are. And like that was it. Like that's all she needed. She just needed somebody to tell her that they cared about her. Yeah.
01:06:28
Speaker
So that is like the biggest thing on the podcast for me, like just being able to tell people that they are cared for, that someone cares about you, you know, that's been huge for me. And that makes me feel good. It makes the people feel good. People get the help they need. And if I can't help, I always just direct them to someone who can. So that's been really exciting for me, man. Like I'm just happy with I'm happy with how it's going. It's reignited me to I want to write more.
01:06:57
Speaker
I haven't written much, obviously, because I'm busy with the podcast and busy with my job, but I do have projects in the works. Just to tag your social channels and everything so people can adequately find your
Finding Scott's Work and Conclusion
01:07:14
Speaker
stuff. It'll be in the show notes, of course, but I'd also like you to say it. So where can people get more familiar with the podcast and a lot of your writing, too? Sure. You can find all of my writing. I used to have a website.
01:07:28
Speaker
ScottRights.com. You can get there at ScottRights.com or ScottNewmyer.com, either way, or just Google me. But that all redirects to Contently now, which is just links to all my old stories that I've had written with, you know, the major stories up top, the New York Times story, the Royce White story, all that kind of stuff. The podcast is you can get there from www.anxietydiariespodcast.com or www.imsoanxious.com.
01:07:58
Speaker
And there are links to listen to it anywhere pretty much. You can get a podcast, Google podcast, Apple podcasts, Spotify. It's available wherever you get your podcasts. We're on social media. We're on Instagram at anxiety diaries podcast. Links to all this stuff is on the website. But yeah, you could find me pretty much anywhere. If you Google me, you'll probably get about 18 pages worth of stuff. Don't go too deep.
01:08:22
Speaker
You never know what's done. Right. Fantastic. Well, Scott, you're doing amazing work. Your writing has always been great. And then what you're doing with the podcast is it's a great, structurally great podcast. And the content is fantastic too. And it's a great public service too. So thank you so much for your work and we'll have to have another round two some at some point in the future.
01:08:46
Speaker
Thank you, man. I truly appreciate that. I've been listening to your podcast since the very beginning. You and Long Form Podcast and Am Writing, you guys were like the main writing podcast I was listening to, and it's really cool to be on, so I appreciate it. And yeah, I'll come back, sure. We'll talk about woodworking at one point. Fantastic. Awesome. Well, that means a lot. And keep doing what you're doing, man. And thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right. Talk to you later, Scott. Later, man.
01:09:20
Speaker
Thanks for listening, CNF buddies. Thanks again to Hippocam 2018 for the support. Be sure to use that CNF pod coupon code to save $50 on your registration fee. Stop procrastinating. Stop doing what you do.
01:09:38
Speaker
and register. Head over to BrendanOmera.com for show notes and to sign up for my monthly reading list newsletter for books and what you might have missed from the world of the podcast. Once a month, no spam can't beat it. Again, if you'd leave a review on Apple Podcasts, I will kindly and honestly
01:09:58
Speaker
Edit a piece of your writing of up to 2,000 words because you don't get better unless it's honest feedback. Just send me a screenshot and I will coach up your writing. Like I said, up to 2,000 words, that's only fair. I dig this groovy tune. So I'll see you next week right here. See ya!