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Rings of Power Ep 6
23 Plays1 month ago
Welcome to an unfiltered conversation (verging on rant) about people disregarding all the work that goes into the costumes in this show. Ariel and Melinda are sick of the opinions disguised as fact in conversations online. It's also unfiltered because we were contending with construction noise and cat activity. Consider yourself warned and consider the entire internet on notice.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27580495/?ref_=ttep_ep6
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome back to Rings of Power, where and back again with me and Melinda. ah We are on Rings of Power Episode 6 and I'm just going to hit the recap that I found from the New York Times real fast because it's very long. Am I being sarcastic? 100%. Mirielle tests the waters, period. Sauron tests everyone's sanity, period. That is a really good description.
00:00:51
Speaker
Right? Just nailed it. Thank you, Squirrel, Squirrel, who wrote it. i Noel Murray, thank you for writing that very succinctly for the New York Much appreciated. I love the the allusion to Muriel testing the waters. I think that was like my favorite part of the episode. Oh, I loved that part so much. What was the highlight for you on this episode, Melinda?
00:01:17
Speaker
Oh, um, miriel passinging the waters yeah, definitely. Um, anytime the phrase like sea worm comes into play in a show, I'm like, okay, I'm ready to see a sea worm. Um, and I think like this episode felt a lot, a lot of like the, um, the sort of like mind game control of like the magic and power of the rings going on.
00:01:43
Speaker
um And i I always enjoy that because you, you know, a scene starts and you sort of get this like tingly feeling that everything is a little off and I i always enjoy those moments. So that reveal kind of at the end of the episode was ah fun for me. um What about you? I think that there are two moments to stand out for me. o three moments and each one has a little bit to it. ah When Tom baba Bombadil, I can talk, when Tom Bombadil and the stranger are talking and Tom Bombadil is showing the stranger like you can choose to help your friends or you can find your staff in this like gorge full of dried out trees.
00:02:25
Speaker
um You can choose your friend or your fate. And ah he says something that Gandalf will say in the future to Frodo one day about Gollum after Frodo says, you should have killed him. like And Gandalf says, many that die deserve life. Some that live deserve death. Who are you to give it to them?
00:02:46
Speaker
And I really enjoyed seeing that. And i I think we mentioned it in the last episode. i get I get real annoyed at some of the critique about this show because I feel like it's just very lazy. And one of the things that was extraordinarily lazy that we talked about last episode was that somebody said, oh, at least we didn't have constant callbacks. so the lord like That's one of the most hilarious, stupid things I've ever read with my animals. In this case, I was like, I think that's really beautiful. Even if the stranger is not Gandalf, which is totally fine with me, and I'd be fine with it if it was. But I love that we are seeing these phrases and these things that are parts of the culture that and teachings that travel down. Like, yeah wizards are posed to these questions and they have to think about them for for millennia.
00:03:33
Speaker
and then that changes how they approach things, like instead of fire and fury, think about, does that person deserve life, death, and who the hell are you to make that choice? Because that may be... Yeah, no, I think it's a valid critique because we don't base our culture on ancient texts and writings anymore, you know? Like we don't have any um important books, say,
00:04:02
Speaker
in our culture that were written, you know, thousands of years ago. Like we, we're modern people. I mean, we don't have, we don't, our religions are modern. We don't, quote you know what I mean? Like we don't worry about that stuff anymore. i
00:04:20
Speaker
Okay, for a second I was like, what? Oh no. No, no, no. It's so like, that makes the world not feel real.
00:04:33
Speaker
Yeah, critique on humans and religion and teaching. We don't have philosophical questions that we've been pondering for thousands of years as humans. like We're past that. Not even a little bit. you know so like it's weird that We're so past talking about the Odyssey, that's old news. We don't still study like just ancient Chinese philosophers. Oh, not even a little bit.
00:04:57
Speaker
i I love every single time that something like this comes up. And you also might be hearing a saw in the background or drill. That's my neighbors working on the fence. I'm so sorry, there's nothing I can do about it. So that was a moment for me, was having that little little moment shine through. um But also Sauron slash Annatar in this episode, significant costume change. yeah like camped it up to so much more than like the campy shepherd that he was in the first five episodes or first four episodes even because like Sauron doesn't have to work for Celebrimbor's belief anymore. He's already in there. He's already got his little fingers in Celebrimbor's brain as he shows us by manipulating what Celebrimbor can see when basically the shit is hitting the fan.
00:05:54
Speaker
And he can convince Celebrine Board that it's not. I loved the costume, that anatar the clothing that Annatar was wearing. There's this asymmetrical feathery situation. As soon as I thought, I was like, oh, this is Ariel's shit right here. like It was so good. Hell yeah.
00:06:13
Speaker
And like the fitted sleeves up to the elbow where they blow out a little bit the like the beautiful like gold leafing and the the massive almost like kind of like Celtic weave belt like gold belt and his little crown is gone.
00:06:30
Speaker
because he kind of doesn't need to represent the kind of power that he was trying to represent with that. He doesn't need to anymore. And so he's really going full camp towards the Sauron that we saw at the very beginning of the show who's kind of dressed like what we would recognize as like Julius Caesar. And this like black get up has these like shiny beaded bits around the tight fitting sleeve, like close to the wrist, which I loved.
00:06:58
Speaker
And um it really reminded me, again, another callback to Lord of the Rings. I just get so annoyed at people. But um another callback is that this kind of reminds me of when Grima Wormtongue and King Theoden in Two Towers refer to Gandalf as Stormcrow.
00:07:16
Speaker
because he feels like this dark harbinger of what is coming and he's not trying to hide it by being all light and leafy anymore. He's like, no, I am goth and I'm gonna let you know. Like I am darkness, I am here but you can't, you're too wrapped up to figure it out. Oh yeah, I love it. And then the third thing for me was every time I see Desa, I genuinely enjoy her costume. I feel like there's always something that hits me a little bit differently every time I see her. yeah And in this one, I really loved the collar and the um the triangles that are hanging from the collar.
00:07:57
Speaker
and do again, complaining about human people that are not a part of this show. I tried to Google her costume because she she really looks like a Mooka painting to me. She kind of reminds me of Mooka's Judith and the Head of Hall of Firenaise. And it's not like a one for one, it's just that Mooka used a lot of the triangular shapes in his artwork.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah. And I really enjoy that with Deesa. And so I tried to Google her costume to see if there was any anything. And of course, like the first like 50 things that come up are all people complaining. So I watched and skipped through like just a couple minutes of this little video of somebody trying to fix Deesa. Oh, okay. I wanted to flip a table because just real quick, ah real real quick,
00:08:46
Speaker
This person in their YouTube video pulled up videos of Thorin from The Hobbit. and Gimli from the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and was like, as we can see by how these male dwarves are dressed, ah it's very cold in the mines. So why would Disa be XYZ, right? Well, Disa is from 3,000 years before Thorin and Gimli. Also, both Thorin and Gimli, even if the mines are cold, we're not seeing them in clothing that they would be wearing with their people. We're seeing them in travel gear.
00:09:20
Speaker
So like, yeah let's go a step further. They have dressed for a journey. They're not wearing the same things that they're wearing on this journey in the mines necessarily. Also, their people are acclimated to the insides of a mountain. So yeah, maybe it is cold, but maybe they feel the cold a little bit less strongly than you do. Maybe the fibers that their clothing is made of retains warmth.
00:09:46
Speaker
it's It's just like there's these thoughts where I go, what? That is the weirdest critique I've ever heard. and It's also a very, I'm going to use the word again. It's a very lazy critique because of a couple points. One is that this is thousands of years before the people you are using as a reference.
00:10:04
Speaker
also different representations of gender and sex and the roles that they occupy. She is kind of like a priestess, so she has ah ah a uniform. And like the men in the mines have their knees showing because they're essentially wearing kilts, some of them.
00:10:22
Speaker
So why aren't you talking about that? Maybe this person did in the rest of the video. I didn't care to find out. But it's like also to not recognize that in these medieval times, et ceterat cetera, et cetera, et cetera, you would be wearing things if you're going on a journey to to prepare you for any kind of weather. If you're walking to Mordor, you have an elven cape because it's lightweight and it's going to keep you cold or protected or whatever. But you have to apply so many different types of thinking instead of just going to... I hate it. like If you want to like disregard all of that, which you shouldn't because it is all extremely valid, but even if you want to disregard all of that. Here's my problem with that kind of critique. We're recording this on Thursday. ah The Emmys just happened. And I was watching the Emmys. I was watching the red carpet coverage because that's who I am.
00:11:19
Speaker
If you're watching any kind of, I mean, like you could literally apply this to any event at all, but let's apply it to the Emmys. You have a parade of men wearing suits, tuxedos. We know what those look like as humans in a western society. We have shirt, jacket, pants, shoes, closed-toed. Now you have a parade of women in these like a beautiful, airy, flowy, gossamer-y gowns. Lots of exposed skin. We're talking sleeveless, maybe even strapless. We're talking about these
00:11:58
Speaker
beautiful lightweight gowns, we're we're seeing like a slit up to the thigh, like we're seeing open-toed shoes. So to say that that the men would be wearing more clothes, the women might be wearing thinner layers or more exposed skin and less clothes, therefore the entire construction of your culture in this fantasy show is invalid is the dumbest thing you could possibly say.
00:12:28
Speaker
And I encourage people to close their mouths when they have those types of thoughts and just take a moment and keep those thoughts inside your head. That's crazy. Well, there's so much critique. There's so much critique over the costuming in this show that just is befuddling to me. And it's like, I understand if you have something to say against Jeff Bezos, but say that against Jeff Bezos. What you are doing is shitting on the work of essentially artisans who are making these costumes. And the costumes are lovely. They really are. yes And one of the complaints, like, okay, what what some of these complaints about the costuming boils down to is, well, it looks too new. Hey buddy, I got news for you. This is again, it is thousands of years before the stories that you know. And there's this leap that people make where they see distressed clothing and they think that somehow that makes it more legitimate than something that is not distressed.
00:13:26
Speaker
And both can be beautiful. This is crazy. Every kiss of clothing is new when it is made. It's insane. Exactly. And this is also, we talked about this in episode five because of Numenor. But this is a time of prosperity for a lot of these cultures. This is before everything hits the fan. So that's literally what the story is building up to, is when everyone comes together and is basically bowled over by the same horrific events.
00:13:56
Speaker
that that destroy what I'm assuming are going to be crops, cities, you know all these things that are providing textiles and skilled labor. Eregion is at risk right now, and Eregion is like the central place for the elves where they make beautiful things. So that's going to alter some stuff.
00:14:16
Speaker
And guess what wasn't a place that we went to in The Lord of the Rings was not a place named Eregion, which leads you to think that maybe something bad is going to happen to it, and it's not going to exist in the same way. Yeah, it's going to be in ruins. It's going to be in ruins. And so it's just like this this assumption that looking at Aragorn in The Lord of the Rings and going, well, that costume is more valid than Galadriel in this one.
00:14:43
Speaker
It's just silly because like and we're talking, and this is where your your disbelief and your imagination have to come into play because this is not a real world, right? But like oh Elvin textiles are going to be potentially different.
00:15:00
Speaker
than human exiles, all right, textiles, um because, you know, different cultures, different willingness to share like the dwarves with their mithril. They don't want to share it unless there's something equal in return that they will be receiving. But like, it's, it just drives me nuts. It just drives me nuts. If you want to compare it to the world that we live in. the only reason that we Exactly. The only reason that we have access to silk in a Western culture is because at some point in the past, the people who were producing it decided to trade it with people outside of their area. Or somebody from a different area stole it from the people who were making it. Absolutely. We can look at um in India,
00:15:54
Speaker
with, ah I keep forgetting the name of it, but there was that specific type of muslin that was so thin. It was made from a specific like plant and it was so thin that you could see through it and it was the most expensive and it's now being brought back, which is incredible. But it was the most expensive test style in the world and the so British destroyed it and destroyed the weavers by like mangling their hands and doing horrific things. like These resources, even in a fictional fantasy world, have meaning. And ah with our Farazans folk in Numenor, we see again more spread of like the symbolism of our Farazans sun rising. And we see some people holding on to like the older identity like Mirielle when she gets into the water and she looks ethereal and beautiful with her light.
00:16:50
Speaker
like like again with the net beating, all that stuff. yeah But we're not seeing the same shapes, because this was another complaint that I saw was that people couldn't, quote unquote, and I'm doing massive finger quotes, justify the new menorean costumes as being part of the world of Lord of the Rings. And that critique, which is not a legitimate critique to me, you can hear Aida in the background,
00:17:14
Speaker
um Blew my mind as well because every pre-culture has a different taste and a different flavor. And this is also 3000 years before what you're expecting to see. People are not going to be the same for 3000 years, and except for arguably the elves. Right, because they're still this literally the same character, like Galadriel is the same, Elrond, same person. They hold on to their yeah they have a different say hold on to yeah their their identities differently because their sense of time is different, as you just said. right So I just, I don't know, I went on one. As you can tell, I'm very calm and cool and collected. I understand if you have critique. I welcome critique, but when it's as lazy as, well, it could never happen because, okay, so you live in a world where everyone is homogenous completely, right? That's pretty crazy. I feel like it's like, and I'm going to be really shady right here. So just, you know, board morning, morning. Bring it.
00:18:13
Speaker
I think it's fine if people don't like it and that's great and i don't I don't even really need you to have an intellectual reason not to like something. you I would prefer that you didn't intellectualize it. yeah like It's likes a desperate need to intellectualize it to like prove that your right yeah is where I lose the thread with that that kind of, because you can just say, I don't like it. Like that's, it's 100% subjective in that sense. Like you can like it, you can hate it. You can feel absolutely nothing about it. Like all of that is fine. And I don't think that you need to create these bizarre rationales for why Especially when you can't even apply, like,
00:19:01
Speaker
We do all live in a world that is real. This obviously show takes place in a fantasy world, but if you can't apply your logic to the world that we live in, how can you apply it to a world that doesn't exist? Yes. And it also, there's this like arrogance that comes with it where if you don't like it, that is totally fine. But if you are making critiques because you are under the assumption that the production team never once thought about it. yeah That actually, that really puts me in a place of like being very frustrated is a nice way to say it because every costumer I've ever met from somebody who is not designing but is like dressing or just like corralling or and doing laundry, whatever, people have, I'm so mad about it.
00:19:57
Speaker
People have put in a lot of work, a lot of work. And costumers have been under the boot of the filming and theater industries for a very long time and have suffered, like actually suffered. And unions have been fighting ah at slower paces than some are willing to support for for basic rights for costumers.
00:20:23
Speaker
Just being paid fairly. Just being paid fairly, but also being a conditioned being yeah allowed to eat. Like there are production companies that would prefer to pay the fine than let their crew have 30 minutes to eat.
00:20:39
Speaker
because it's easier and cheaper. And so, like, the amount of work and labor and time that has gone into this show, we have talked upside down about the beading and the finishing, all these things that we have seen in these costumes. Again, in this episode, there's beautiful embroidery. When um Sauron puts this, like, vision in Celebrimbor's mind when Eregion is just about to, like, be attacked and, you know, everybody's freaking out, but Celebrimbor can't see it. He just sees a beautiful summer day. like We actually see an elf.
00:21:08
Speaker
embroidering a leafy motif and so like I was like yay and there are like children playing with kites and we get to see all of these like oregano elves with like different velvets and we get to see Celebrimbor in the daylight outside which is beautiful because we haven't seen that in a while it is very frustrating to me when people just dismiss all of that yes if you have a successful costume design there is a point where it should disappear and people shouldn't really be thinking about it because then you have done your job, the world is cohesive. And sometimes yes, things are supposed to stand out like Sauron in this episode is meant to stand out because there's like symbolism in what he's wearing. It's telling you where the character is going. But for you to just assume that these people have not put in hours of research, hours of meetings, hours of labor,
00:21:58
Speaker
to make these things and just say, well, it doesn't look like what it looks like in my head drives me crazy. Nobody working on this show stumbled in off the street like these people are dedicated. They're the top of the field.
00:22:14
Speaker
They work incredibly hard. Do I know any of them personally? No, not one. I don't need to. Are they being paid to say this? No. I would be defending a musical the same way if somebody just came in and said, well, I didn't like the show and the costumes were dumb. I would ask, why were they dumb?
00:22:31
Speaker
Yeah. maybe like If you're going to present it as like an objective fact. The moment you do that, I'm livid. The moment you may get an objective fact, I lose my mind. Yes. You were not present for all these meetings, for all the times, for all the versions of the designs. you know like What were the versions of Numenor? Maybe they were more Grecian. you know And then somebody said, oh, well, that's too close to how we have these people looking. So we should look somewhere else.
00:23:01
Speaker
and they pulled from something else. Maybe they didn't pull from Eastern Asian cultures because it's people have been very guilty of doing that in sci-fi and fantasy and making something other or you know fantastical and magical and making it look Chinese or Japanese historically and and aligning being different than what we're familiar with in the West. you know like there's There's so many conversations that happen there that I feel like I'm like flames on the side of my face. yeah But it's just this... when When you are looking to critique the work that people have done, I would like to ask you, where is that feeling coming from? And it's not to say that, you know like I said, you you can not like something. That's absolutely fine. like it Not everything's for everyone, but this need to...
00:23:55
Speaker
to dominate the conversation with it is where I start to put on my boxing gloves and get really angry about it. The fact that I Google these costumes and I would have to dig for a hot minute to find something that is just talking about the construction or just talking about the design and is not looking to shit on it. Like a vicious takedown. Exactly.
00:24:22
Speaker
That's a problem for me, and I would like more people to explore in themselves why that's the take that they're taking. um Because i I enjoyed this episode. i I enjoy where we're going. My husband actually asked me, did you like the episode? And I was like, everything's doomed.
00:24:37
Speaker
like It's bad, it's all. It's so bad. But i every episode, I stop at some detail. Yes. And I love the detail that was put there. I do. And like there was like gold leafing in this episode. like There were the the armor, the breastplates of the Numenorean royal guards when they're marching like Muriel and Elendil to this like pool to be eaten by the sea worm. They have these like,
00:25:09
Speaker
they don't have crazy chiseled abs. And that stood out to me that like their breastplates don't have this kind of Roman overly muscled thing. They actually kind of look like dad bods. But like strong metallic dad bods. And I was like, everyone this is interesting that we don't have like this. Like that stood out to me. And that's just my eyes and my opinions. But there is so much thought going into every single one of these cultures. And what I'm so happy about is that they are representing that this is a time of prosperity, a time of great wealth for a lot of these cultures who are at the pinnacle of their histories right before this massive fall that's coming to them.
00:25:48
Speaker
And that these designers and these costumers have taken the time with the people who are farther away from the camera and layering the looks that they are wearing to represent the culture that they are that they are a part of. So it's like,
00:26:03
Speaker
being able to pause if you, depending on the quality and size of what you're watching on, if you pause, you can look past your first like actor who's close to the focal point and you can see like, especially in Numenores in my mind, you can see like all these shell details or sun details. You can see the arc throughout the series of when the sun becomes more present over the sea. There is symbolism, there is work that is happening here.
00:26:28
Speaker
And there are colors here. There's so many jewel tones, especially in this episode, amongst the elves and Numenoreans. That wide shot of everyone standing on like the rocky coastline Numenore and just kind of like, because we haven't looked like it it's rare to get that far out of a shot with just costumes. yeah And it was just a really lovely moment. And it's like,
00:26:57
Speaker
this type of show. is not one where you can just like throw a bunch of things on the extra. It's like everything has to be done so carefully. And I think that's why we're so like different. So frustrated. There was a point in this. There's so much work happening here. So much work. There was a point. And I would like you to think this. If you are also finding yourself critiquing the costumes, I would like you to ask yourself, what was the process for the costumers when they were arming the orcs?
00:27:28
Speaker
because there are so many different styles of armor that have been made that are being kind of pickpocketed, I would like to know what the design process was for that. Like, did the designer create a bunch of renderings for like, this is this work, this is this work, like this is, you know,
00:27:44
Speaker
here's a runner orc and this is what they should look like. Here's a messenger orc. Here's like a, um, an orc that fits this station. It's like a pawn. And then here's like a captain of the guard, you know, like, did, yeah is that going in there? And then there are pieces that then we're just like, okay, make sure that these guys have that, like, what did that process break down into when they were getting the actors ready? You know, like was, see like, if I'm, if, if I'm,
00:28:11
Speaker
ah having to put together a character like that. Obviously, I've not worked on a project with the kind of bullshit that Rings of Power has. I haven't, you know, I haven't had to completely fabricate that it from my imagination outward. I've had like a dress form and items and I can like collage yes with real things. And like,
00:28:34
Speaker
They're not, I don't, are they doing that? I don't know that they have the, you know, I don't know. And even if they are, when does that technique kick in? You know, like when are they starting to do that versus being more determined and more specific? Like there's, there's so much thought that has to go into this. So this episode has been basically i'm dedicated to being frustrated, to talking about that. But that is a thing with this industry where people are very quick to sweep it aside and like kick it down the hill and just go,
00:29:03
Speaker
I hate this," without thinking about why. like It is okay if you just don't like something, if it is not to your tastes. That's fine, man. yeah But like completely disregarding the skills, the knowledge, the work, the time that has gone into this, like that feels really um' just rude. It feels real rude. It's rude. It's very rude. if I feel like it comes from a place so of just not and not thinking about and not knowing about what it takes to put this together. and that Most of the complaints are about, well, like I don't even understand why they did this. it's like they didn't They thought about it, but they thought about it. You might have come to a different conclusion if you did all the research. and
00:29:52
Speaker
legwork. Like maybe you would have come to a different place and like that's fine, but this is the place they came to. Yes, this is the place that they came to. And listen, if you're, this is what cosplay is for. This is what, you know, getting into the field is for because maybe someday you can advocate for like a, another series that has to do with something else from the Silmarillion or Children of Huron, whatever. But like,
00:30:14
Speaker
If you want to represent what's in your head, then make your art. Oh my god, make your art. Put more art into the world instead of trying to detract from it. Please, more art, please. we Learn how to make these things. Even if you never put it into practice, read a little bit about it. Give it a shot. Take a class. Why not? like Learn some of these skills so that you actually understand what goes into it. Just do a drawing of what yours would be. Exactly. And then put that on the internet for us to see and enjoy. like Let us talk about it because we would love to share those things. But even in the tiniest details of this show, there is work. The last thing I'm going to say is Elendil's shirt when he is jailed. That shirt is beautiful. And it is distressed. It is disgusting because he's been sweating out of fear. He's been like in dirty hay in a dungeon. And yet there is still
00:31:05
Speaker
hand detailing and I'm saying hand detailing because like I'm assuming in the world that there would be a person who is not using a machine because machines like this don't exist in that world. yeah That there is this embroidery or beating or studying whatever it is that's happening around his neck is this purposeful thing that exists that shows the craftsmanship of the world in which he lives and the culture of which he is a part of. It is a testament to how how like fleshed out that world is, that even this undershirt would have that much purpose put into it.
00:31:41
Speaker
and so don't disregard all of this so quickly. Yes, this is our hyper focus. Yes, this is our passion. And like lighting designers, other designers could totally advocate for whatever and totally justifiably. Yeah, I would not be able to critique any other department. Except for lighting when I can't see anything. That's the only thing that I would say. That's supposed to just request for more. It's a critique of what's there. Exactly. It's just a request. I just want more. I would like more.
00:32:11
Speaker
But i I am in the story. I am loving these like departures from what we've seen so far. Sauron's fashion journey is, yeah I'm looking forward to it every episode. And this one was a really fun one because he was like, I can take off the shepherd mask and really show you the mask of doom. And I feel like that's what we've done here today. yeah Philosophically speaking, we really pulled it back and said what we really mean. This is unfiltered. This is like, you know, everyone's fighting in Middle Earth and we're fighting here today. We're here to fight today.
00:32:52
Speaker
Um, we are working on our little tiny, tiny versions of our characters and it's just taking time because I'm unemployed and I'm in my feelings about costuming at the moment. And that's my own thing. And Melinda is working on a gig. So it's happening in our own time. There's so much happening behind the scenes. You guys, you have no idea. Yeah. We're learning how to film ourselves while we work, which is pretty crazy because I've never worked in a studio where I've recorded myself during the process.
00:33:22
Speaker
um But it's fun and I'm actually going to spend a couple hours working on it today. I have my Mirielle's coronation dress draped. The sleeves are cut. I have the cape cut and draped and now I need to start laying out embroidery. I spent like two hours yesterday figuring out the embroidery pattern. so This is the kind of work we're talking about. Exactly. And this is for a half scale or whatever this is, quarter scale, whatever it is. like right This is tiny and there's a lot of time and effort going into it, which is fun and I'm passionate about it. But yes. And we're going to go so we can get back to it. 100%. So thank you for for watching the episode and thanks for giving us a listen. Bye. Bye.