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EP549: TL Nuggets #149 - Marc Von Musser - Successful Sales Strategies That Work In 2024
145 Plays8 months ago
“The leaders of tomorrow will be the most aligned, congruent, and willing to serve their fellow man. They must truly care.”
The old-school sales tactics that use pressure and posturing don’t cut it anymore. The noise coming at us from every direction is always growing louder, and when it comes to sales, buyers have seen it all and are programmed to be skeptical. The sales process is cold, giving them nothing to hold on to so they demand certainty. That’s why it’s time for a shift towards heart-driven selling. They demand certainty but what they need is authenticity. Real relationships with people who genuinely care about solving their problems. People who would walk away if they realized they don’t have the solution the buyer needs.
These are genuine, grown-up conversations built around truth and integrity. That’s what a heart-driven selling is all about. It’s about understanding your clients’ needs and working together to find the best solutions.
The program “Get Booked & Get Paid”, incorporates heart-driven sales into its methodology for podcast guesting. Countless business owners have achieved lower refund rates and higher referral rates, proving that this really is the sales methodology of the future. If you’re ready to take your business to the next level, it’s time to embrace heart-driven selling. It’s not just about making sales; it’s about building meaningful relationships and creating lasting impact.
Visit eCircleAcademy.com and book a success call with Nicky to take your practice to the next level.
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Transcript
The Shift to Genuine Sales Strategies
00:00:00
Speaker
It's time for good people to start winning. This isn't theory. This is the best way because I'm not triggering all the buyer defenses, but you can't fake it. And it's a lot easier just to be a good human being and really care. That's what buyers require today. And so what's happening, the businesses that have this, the entrepreneurs that are incorporating this, the podcast guests that do this, they're getting new clients left and right. And day by day, the posture, pressure selling tactics are becoming less and less effective. It's a choice.
Podcast Introduction: Thought Leader Revolution
00:00:32
Speaker
Welcome to the Thought Leader Revolution with Nikki Ballou. Join the revolution. There's never been a better time in history to speak your truth, find your freedom, and make your fortune. Each week, we interview the world's top thought leaders and learn the secrets of how they built a six to seven figure practice. This episode has been brought to you by eCircleAcademy.com, the proven system to add six to seven figures a year to your thought leader practice.
Guest Introduction: Mark Vermeuser on 2024 Sales Strategies
00:01:02
Speaker
Welcome to another exciting episode of the podcast, The Thought Leader Revolution. I'm your host, Nicky Baloo. And boy, do we have an amazing, exciting episode lined up for you today. Today's guest is our goat guest, the greatest of all time, the one, the only, the legendary, Mark Vermeuser. Welcome to the show, Mark.
00:01:22
Speaker
Thank you, excited to be here. It's gonna be a fun topic. Really fun topic. So Mark, you and I wanna do a bunch of these over the next few weeks and months because we did a couple that were really effective and people got a lot of value out of. And the topic that we wanted to get into today was successful sales strategies that work in 2024.
The Importance of Effective Communication
00:01:44
Speaker
So Mark, let's dive right in. Why is this important for people to know about today?
00:01:51
Speaker
That's a great question. So the reason it's important is because right now, being able to effectively communicate to ideal prospects and clients is critical. There is more noise in the space than there ever has been. There is more skepticism than there ever has been. There are more people spewing a bunch of crap about all the bonuses they're going to get and they're not delivering results. So the reason it's so important
00:02:16
Speaker
is that people that have a heart-driven approach are much more effective than people that are using outdated strategies. The buyer has evolved. The buyer is more skeptical. The buyer is more hesitant to pull the trigger. What's happening is the majority of the sales trainings that are out there and the approaches
00:02:37
Speaker
are triggering the buyer defenses and not giving the buyer certainty. What's happening is they're having to spend more on marketing, they're having to go ahead and do a lot more calls, and they're having less and less success because buyers can sniff through all those used car pressure tactics and the old way of selling the way it's taught.
Traditional vs. Heart-Driven Sales Tactics
00:02:57
Speaker
So let me break it down into two different categories. Please. There's really two types of enrollments, two types of sales. The traditional way, which is how it has been done, was started by the Fuller Brush Company door-to-door sales, insurance models, car sales models. And so what they did is in the 50s and 60s, when people would go door-to-door to sell vacuum cleaners or Fuller brushes, they had a strategy.
00:03:24
Speaker
Now, those strategies were developed for a time when there was not a lot of competition. So they worked percentage-wise. What they did is they continued and modified those for everything else. The problem is today's buyer is much more savvy. Today's buyer has already fended off thousands and thousands and thousands of sales attempts to try and get you to buy.
00:03:47
Speaker
Those attempts have been online, commercials, direct emails, spam, junk mail, texting sales, all these different things have created a very defensive buyer. So old school selling is really based around posture.
00:04:04
Speaker
And so what a lot of the guys are doing today is what I call posture selling. Posture selling is where I'm going to go flex. I'm going to walk off of the least jet that I have. I'm going to walk away from my Ferrari and I'm going to start saying, you know, look, man, I'm so successful and I'm going to use posture as a way to impress you enough that you're going to assume that I have the solutions. That's posture selling. A lot of guys have done that. Now, the other type are the old school features and benefits.
00:04:34
Speaker
Nikki, let me tell you about what our program includes. Let me tell you, and I give you a brief, hey, Nikki, what's going on? What do you want? Okay, great. Let me tell you about our program. Let me tell you about my coaching. And I'm gonna tell you, you get six sessions. You get a bonus, my free ebook. You also get another bonus with one free bonus call. You also get an, and so they're really leveraging bonuses and the fear of missing out and the fear of getting something for nothing.
The Downfall of Pressure Selling
00:05:01
Speaker
So this has a very low effective rate, but this is what most people use. The last thing is what I call pressure and intimidation selling. This is what happens when people don't have a heart. They don't have integrity. They're not worried. All they want is what I want. They want their sale. They want their commission. They want, you know, and Glengarry Glen Ross, if you remember Al Pacino's character, great example.
00:05:26
Speaker
Where's my Cadillac? I don't care. I'm gonna do whatever it takes. He takes the guy out, gets him drunk, gets assigned, so he gets the Cadillac. That's what I really call is that pressure in the me for selling. Now, the opposite, the new way is something that I've trained on over 5,000 business owners and it works exponentially better for many reasons. It's called advocate selling or heart-driven selling.
00:05:52
Speaker
Now, this focuses, it's the new way. This does not trigger buyer defenses. This is actually having a grown-up conversation built around the truth where you're going to learn how to go ahead and elicit what's going on in their life, the challenges, and then you're going to find out if you're the best person to solve it.
00:06:11
Speaker
And that's kind of the difference. One is engaging. One is more, I'm going to try and power over you. One is let's do this together. So those two things are the two kind of groups that the sales process will fall in. And Nikki, we've done this very, very well with Get Booked and Get Paid to help you, unlike 99.9999999% of people on podcasts who don't make a dime.
Personal Story: Pressure Selling's Impact
00:06:35
Speaker
using the advocate or the heart-driven selling strategies allowed you to go ahead and make $357,000 on other people's podcasts by moving through integrity. Big difference. That's what I would throw out. You know, Mark, as you were sharing this with me, and thanks for all of that, I think that was brilliant.
00:06:56
Speaker
I remember, God, 20 odd years ago when I was in corporate and I was in sales, there was this dude who had this energy. It was a dark energy, but it was a magnetic energy. And he wanted to get me to sign up for his, I don't know, his MLM and Amway. And he was using massive intimidation, massive push to get me. And I was not ready to do it. And he just berated me, you know, and I,
00:07:25
Speaker
For some reason, there's a part of my psyche that wants certain people to like me, even if they're always like this dude was. But I said no to him because it just felt wrong at so many levels. I hated being treated that way by him. And I just thought to myself, my God, I would never want to do that to another human being in a sales situation.
00:07:45
Speaker
Not just you, every heart-driven person, every coach that I work with, the people that care, it's kind of like if you get into healthcare, it's because you hate seeing people that are sick, right? People that become coaches, people that become consultants, hate seeing people lose and they want to go ahead and help other people. That really comes from the heart. Now, when you take a heart-driven person,
00:08:06
Speaker
such as yourself or some of these other people, and then try and use a manipulation pressure selling tactic, it will never resonate. Now, you as a consumer back then, also your intuition, which was run through the heart and the gut, that was triggered saying, this isn't right for me.
00:08:23
Speaker
Now, if he had been truly there for you, it would have been a much more open communication. But you sensed that it wasn't about you, it was about him and what he wanted. That's pretty consistent with the pressure selling. So pressure selling, slimy selling, manipulation selling, posture selling, call it what you want. The couple of distinct differences is it focuses on self.
00:08:47
Speaker
These are like the Al Pacinos. These are the ones who want their Cadillac. They want their commission check. You are simply a means to their end what they want. When they don't get what they want, they're generally pretty nice and using fake rapport. Nikki, you seem like a great guy. I love your beard. Man, I can't draw a beard like that. Wow, Nikki, you've got such a great laugh. You're so smart. Oh my God, Nikki, you're so smart. I can tell you're the kind of guy that wants the best in life.
00:09:14
Speaker
And you're smart enough to know that you got to make sense. And so they kind of plant these seeds. The minute you say it's not for me, they become who they really are. Well, Mickey, are you going to be a man or a mouse? Arguably, the largest sales trainer uses this tactic a lot. He came from the car sales industry. Now, here's how it went. He would get people and a lot of the sales trainers have done this. They show their boiler room, right, where all their junior closers are on the phone. They walk up and go, give me the phone.
00:09:43
Speaker
Hello, this is John Doe. Do you know who I am? Are you a man or a mouse? Put your right hand in your right pocket. Put your left hand in your left pocket. Now shake hands. Do you feel anything? Then make a decision. If you're sick and tired of being broke, then get me my credit card so we can make you rich. If you're not ready to be rich, don't call back. What's it gonna be, slick? And it's that kind of pressure.
00:10:07
Speaker
I know a couple of other people that have done that. And what they did is they were calling a guy in the other department. It was all fake. But what that does is give the wrong impression to people. Wow. If the top sales guys are doing this, that's what I need to do. And that will never resonate with a heart-driven entrepreneur. So that's the second thing.
Benefits of Heart-Driven Selling
00:10:25
Speaker
The other part is they're always trying to come up with fake urgency and more bonuses.
00:10:30
Speaker
But wait, there's more. If you order now, you get a free set of steak knives, you get a free ebook that you're never gonna read that I had AI write out in five minutes. You're gonna get this and you're gonna get this, but I only have a few spots left. Time is limited and obviously, and so they're trying to use fake that. Now, because you as a consumer have had thousands and tens of thousands and maybe over 100,000 attempts to sell you, you've kind of sniffed through those scams.
00:11:00
Speaker
Now, on the other hand, with the new way of doing it, I actually show up. I don't try and care. I do care. There's another very large sales trainer. Now, he made his money in multi-level marketing. He's pretending that he made it in sales. But he was a part of two fraudulent MLMs that were shut down because of fraud. Now he's pretending that wasn't his background. He's pretending he made it legitimately in sales. And he will teach you something like this.
00:11:29
Speaker
Now, when they say this, Nikki, you got to say, wow, that's really that's got to be hard for you. What do you think is preventing? And he starts doing this and he goes, now, listen, did you hear how I was using caring in my tonality? That's an insider secret. And I'm like, how about you just care?
00:11:54
Speaker
How about let's stop the charade? How about you actually be a good human being and you say, Nikki, I know you're a father of two boys. I know that you're going to make a difference in this world. Let's have a real man to man conversation and see what's going on and see if I can help. But I actually care because I'm a father of two girls. I know what that's like. Notice the difference. One is an act.
00:12:18
Speaker
One is actually being a good human being where you actually love on somebody. Now guess what? When you do the latter, and I'm doing that where I'm actually truly caring about a fellow human being, you will sense that too.
00:12:32
Speaker
And you're going to be much more open because you know, I'm not trying to get my hand in your wallet. I'm not trying to manipulate you. So I get my commission check. I'm trying to see if I can help. And I have faith that I know when I do that, I have better enrollment numbers. I have a lot less cancellations and refunds and you can't fake caring.
00:12:52
Speaker
And it drives me crazy when these sales trainers are teaching this NLP. And I love NLP, but with the intent, it has to be in alignment. You can't fake it. And those are some of the key distinct differences that are happening. Now, if I use pressure or posture selling, here's what it also comes with.
00:13:09
Speaker
It comes with a high refund rate. It comes with a contraction in the client and yourself, because if you're a good person, you won't do it. There is a reason so many high pressure salespeople, I don't care how successful they are, even if there's a movie about being the wolf on Wall Street. Why do you think they ended up with a drug addiction and an alcohol problem? It's because they can't quiet the voices. They know they're fraudulent. They know they're not doing it the right way.
00:13:36
Speaker
The second third thing is that it's argumentative. It doesn't feel good, Nikki. It's like a fistfight.
00:13:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's adversarial, right? It is adversarial. And it just doesn't feel good. I knew a guy that I worked with. I had my approach. He had his approach. We're selling software. I would put up 100 to 120 sales every month, excuse me, every two weeks, cold calling. He would go ahead and put up about 80 to 90 to 100, but he would go home and drink and cry because he had to lie to get the same, try and keep up with the sales, Sam, as I was getting. He had a gigantic refund rate. He had a ton of complaints.
00:14:12
Speaker
I slept like a baby because I wasn't screwing anybody. He didn't believe in the product, he didn't believe in the people, he just wanted his trophy. Same platform. Now, the other thing, this is a key, is that if I use pressure selling and even if I happen to bully you to get a credit card, here's the big problem. I destroy the coaching relationship.
00:14:34
Speaker
a few days from now, we're gonna jump on the phone. I'm gonna try and coach you to a better life. But if you already don't trust me and don't have a good feeling because I bullied you, I pressured or shamed you, that's done. And so what happens though, it also kills all referrals.
00:14:52
Speaker
That's why timeshare companies can't get referrals. They have tons of process to try and get them, but they won't get them because the sales process generally was deceptive. Now let's look at the positives of what happens on the new way, the advocate or heart-driven selling. Number one, you have an incredibly low refund rate because people are proud and they're like, oh my God, you saw me, you served me. I'm going to tell my friends. So you get a lot of referrals.
00:15:17
Speaker
And lastly, it is a great launch into the coaching relationship. So you have better results, better results, faster results, a better relationship means you have longer staying clients and you get more referrals and you as the owner feel better about it.
Podcasting as a Sales Platform
00:15:33
Speaker
So now let's talk about this because podcasting is an example. How does it apply there? It also applies on stages. It also applies on breakthrough calls. It also applies on one-on-ones or in Leeds Club or BNI. So what happens on a podcast?
00:15:50
Speaker
Podcast is a great thing. There's 5 million podcasts out there. It has the highest economic and demographic status, meaning the people that make the most money, they buy the most from that vehicle. So why isn't everybody making money on podcasts? Because A, they don't know how to articulate their message properly. They don't know who they should be talking to, and they don't know how to serve them instead of try and sell them.
00:16:14
Speaker
You fix those three problems, and if you know how to do it, and that's really why we started Get Booked and Get Paid. I remember you talking to me, Nikki, and you said, hey, I already have a podcast. It's a lot of work. And I said, Nikki, I'm not talking about your podcast. I'm talking about other people's podcasts. He goes, yeah, I know a ton of people that do that, but no one makes money. And I said, you're right, because no one knows how to do it.
00:16:36
Speaker
Let me walk you through the process, which we did, and you took it like gospel and you went out there and you started doing it. And now here's a hidden benefit. Everything you've done is not done selling and not done properly doing it. Your voice, your message is properly placed in front of 1.5 million listeners as of right now. It's crazy, I know. So you and I are talking, guess what? There's 1.5 million people that could be listening to Nikki Blue right now.
00:17:06
Speaker
That's pretty awesome
00:17:09
Speaker
You know, Mark, everything you've said here is so, so on point. It's gold. And a few things struck me. If you're engaged in posture selling, you're gonna have a high refund rate, and that pairs with a low referral rate. So if your refund rate is high, your referral rate's gonna be low. But if you're engaged in advocate selling, you're gonna have a low refund rate, and that pairs nicely with a high referral rate.
00:17:37
Speaker
And I think that's really, really fantastic. And what you said about how being a pressure salesman destroys the coaching relationship while being a heart-driven salesman.
00:17:50
Speaker
launches the coaching relationship, it's bang on. And Mark, you know, I've been saying this to people forever, but it took you saying it back to me for the freaking dime to drop in the old fashioned telephone booth, right? And here's the dime to drop. People who listen to podcasts are seekers. They want better lives. They're winners. These are the people that are looking for ways to improve. So guys,
00:18:16
Speaker
Who do you want to be your clients if you're a coach? You want the people that are looking for ways to improve. You want the people who listen to lots of podcasts because those are the people that want to get better and therefore are more likely to invest. That's why 35% of them make over 100 grand a year. And in society as a whole, less than 10% make over 100 grand a year. That's incredible. And that's why 38% of the people who listen to shows by the products and services that are
00:18:46
Speaker
listed on those shows. So I just thought this was pretty fantastic, Mark. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing all this. This is going to be very beneficial to a lot of people.
00:18:57
Speaker
Yeah, I hope so because it's time for good people to start winning. When I came up, I was kind of only shared my secrets and strategies with a handful of people and they worked magnificently.
Aligning with Modern Buyer Expectations
00:19:07
Speaker
I've now shared them over 5,000 businesses. Our businesses that I've helped with that have applied it have over a billion dollars in sales to get new clients for themselves and the relationships, the coaching relationships. This isn't theory. This is the best way because I'm not triggering all the buyer defenses, but you can't fake it.
00:19:26
Speaker
You either care or you're faking it. And it's a lot easier just to be a good human being and really care. Because nobody, I think, if they realize they have two choices. You can do pressure selling and along with it comes the alcohol and the drug addiction. It comes with the self-loathing. It comes with a hardened heart. Or you can decide to do heart-driven selling where you actually care. You're inspired. People are calling you, writing you, saying thank you. They're posting thank you, thank you, thank you. It's not the old school.
00:19:54
Speaker
And that's what buyers require today. And it's funny, when I first started teaching this, I remember some of the big sales trainers got it and copied a lot of the language, but nothing changed. They didn't care, but they were using the word service. They were using the words, but I heard them and I know them backstage. They don't care. And you will feel that, that intuitive. Your clients will feel that.
00:20:16
Speaker
And that's one of the things, so I'll leave on this. The leaders of tomorrow will be the most aligned, congruent, and willing to serve their fellow man. They must truly care.
00:20:28
Speaker
And if you do that, you have a unique opportunity to capture market share because we're noticing the money, the clients, they're starting to require this. And so what's happening, the businesses that have this, the entrepreneurs that are incorporating this, the podcast guests that do this, they're getting new clients left and right. And day by day, the posture pressure selling tactics are becoming less and less and less effective. So it's a choice.
00:20:57
Speaker
Amen, brother. And I really love doing these conversations with you because I learn every time, and sometimes things that I thought I knew, I hear them in a different way, and they just click. The dime drops, as they said. God bless you, brother. This episode has been brought to you by eCircleAcademy.com, the proven system to add six to seven figures a year to your thought leader practice.