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Episode 2 - Lions, and Tigers, and Bears After Midnight
8 Plays2 months ago
Overwhelmed by the unpacking of boxes, the ghoulfriends decide instead to unpack a few more so-called "cursed films".
A piece of lost media maybe motivates a manic man to murder. Then, a classic film's creation is considered under current-day concepts. Toxic touch-ups, Poorly-planned pyrotechnics, and on-set violence - Oh my!
Enter the nightmare for notes and sources!
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Transcript
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Nim and Nyleen's Nightmare Cottage, where we discuss dark locations, sinister media, and other tales of the macabre. I'm Nim. And I'm Nyleen. Let the nightmare begin.
00:00:50
Speaker
So it's been quite the day. We've been moving into the cottage. It's been intense. Yeah. To the least. Also, disclaimer, I know that I was laughing a lot during the last episode. So I know that Nam mentioned, you know, she she struggles with with some anxiety. Me too. <unk>s Yeah. Don't we all? Right. So sorry about the laughter. It's nervous laughter. Yep. I am so guilty of that. I laugh at the worst times. Yes. And it's not that I think that any of this is funny. It's people have been murdered and, you know,
00:01:19
Speaker
or died from really tragic cases but definitely not uh yeah we're definitely not amused by any of this but i have this tendency to even i do this with my boss a lot where i just i giggle at the end of everything oh oh no me too yes especially when i get nervous or i'm delivering some bad news yeah my boss has told me that too she's like it makes it sound like like you don't care and i'm like it's not that i don't care it's that i'm really nervous and i don't know what to do with my hands except my face And my voice. No one's called me on it. But I hear myself do it every time. And there's a point where I feel like my, like one of my bosses in particular, once I've done it three times in a row, he ends the conversation because I think he thinks I'm done with him. I don't know. He's like, okay, I'm going to exit the room because you're not. It's like that. That's crazy. Well, it's my office. That's crazy. That's great. Yes.
00:02:17
Speaker
Yeah. So. Oh, that's so crazy. Yeah. So that's, that's the nervous laughter. It happens. We're not trying to be disrespectful of anybody. We understand the gravity of these situations. yeah Just working on it, getting through it, building the cottage and the vibes, building the vibes. Building the vibes for sure. So what have you been up to ah this week? My cat got a hoodie. Grimothy. Grimothy. Grim got a hoodie.
00:02:47
Speaker
It's just a plain black putty. He's adorable in it. I have to exchange it for a slightly bigger size. He's a long cat. How old is he now? He's not one yet, is he? He is. He's one in February. I missed his birth. I didn't miss his birth. He had a birthday. I'm so sad you didn't remind me. Well, now I know. Well, I've been buying him enough presents. I'm sure he made up for it. That's true. as Aside from me, you buy him the most presents.
00:03:14
Speaker
like every time I go to the pet store, I kind of just have to, I have to, I just i just have to, there's just one, they're just so cute, and I'm never gonna have a cat, so. You are practically his anyways, so. Yeah, he's your cat, it's fine. He's communal, he just lives with me. Am I away from the cottage cottage? So how did he feel about the sweater time? Well, he did a little bit of the flopping he does when we first put his harness on. He's like, please, no. But he didn't seem mad about it,
00:03:43
Speaker
Is he still able to climb and stuff? Or he didn't care too? Oh, he jumped and and moved and and he played. Like when we were doing our hardest training, we always started by playing with some of his favorite things. We tried to apply the positive anyways. He's super cute. And I will put pictures of that on Instagram so everybody can see my adorable grim in his hoodie. Yeah. What about you? What have you been up to? Man, everything has been kicking my butt lately. And so I finally, it finally stopped raining, which was amazing.
00:04:12
Speaker
So I was able to take Dojo, oh my little baby boy, was able to take him to the doggy park. And I haven't taken him in forever, honestly, because it's just like the weather's either like been too hot or it's like so sweat or it's just like everything's just weird. My allergy is whatever, right? Always excuses. But I finally took him to the dog park and there's this new one over here that I took him to you and he loved it. Like it was great because there was no one there when we first got there, which was really nice.
00:04:40
Speaker
because he's a grumpy old man. He's like eight now, I think. And so he, he gets real cranky whenever like there's other dogs and they're sniffing his butt, like he just doesn't like it. But this little, this little, if I say a little, that dog was bigger than him and apparently it wasn't even one, came out to him after the fact. And he was so excited to be playing with this dog. They had such a good time. It gives me hope that he can like maybe go to job parks again, because like before it was like any dog that came here. I mean, he was like, please,
00:05:10
Speaker
leave me alone so but I'll post a picture of him too that way you can see both of our little fur but he was adorable at the doggy park so yeah it really helped honestly like just to get out with my baby boy so what are we talking about today we're gonna be talking about dark films again okay So I am going to talk about London After Midnight today. London After Midnight. i've I've heard about this, but I don't know much about it. Yeah. So I've never actually heard about it before I started researching it. Yeah. So I was starting to look into it and like, apparently it was, it's a really old movie just to get a little relevant backstory, right? So it's this movie that this murder is based on and it was a silent horror film.
00:06:03
Speaker
So it was released by Todd Browning in 1927. And then I don't know if you know who Lon Chaney is. I do. Because he was in a lot of old movies, right? He was known as the man of a thousand faces. I love Lon Chaney. Yeah, apparently he was just really good with horror face, right? And I found that really interesting because I did end up pulling up like a lot of pictures to kind of see the craziness. But yeah, so it was really cool. So it started him. He was known as Leonidas Frank Lon Chaney.
00:06:30
Speaker
also known as the Man of Thousand Faces, ah due to his advanced makeup technique. So like I said, he just, he could change exactly what he looked like. um So he was cast as the villain, Edward C. Burke. He was actually supposed to be a Scotland Yard inspector, and then eventually revealed later on to be the villain, right? So the movie was actually a flop, interesting enough, but the reason that it's remembered is because it was lost in the 1965 fire at MGM's Vault 7 studio.
00:06:59
Speaker
because they made the film with like what nitrates back then. And so like it apparently like the whole thing lit on fire. They lost a bunch of films and this was one of them. So it was a lost film. Something about me is that one of the things that pisses me off more than anything in the entire universe.
00:07:15
Speaker
was the burning of the Library of Alexandria. Right? Yes, because it's like, really, how advanced were things back then? We don't know. We really don't know. Right, in all of the history that was lost, like, anyways, so this is kind of, that's so funny because I was thinking about this when I was putting my notes together for our next episode.
00:07:31
Speaker
so this is like that losing of this is the only copy this is the only way we have it and now it's just gone and interesting enough though back then like not to get too off topic apparently it wasn't really a big deal for them to keep a lot of the copies like a lot of movies they would just show them and then they would just destroy them because they were like well onto the next one right right i mean i don't think they really thought that it would get to where it is now where we don't know where where we can access so much media right So anyways, it was lost in the 1965 nitrate film, Real Fire, right at MGM studio. So it didn't destroy the final known copy of the movies. That's really what made it famous as people were like, well, like it was supposedly this big horrifying movie, but it was a flop because it didn't make sense. But Lon Chaney and his amazing art, right? In 2003, Turner classic movies actually reconstructed the film and they use stills that were like, that they were able to find, like obviously not the full film, but stills.
00:08:28
Speaker
and I actually will link to our page. There's two of them. So one of them is the original 45 minute long that Turner Classic put together and it it's the full one that they created. But it's only stills because remember the dialogue wasn't included at the time. So it stills with just the dialogue on the screen. Right. And then it was a silent film. So it's silent. But somebody did piece together the basis of the movie. Right. And it's 18 minutes long and includes original pieces from the Turner Classic movie.
00:08:59
Speaker
and a really pretty score that just, it highlights it so beautifully. So I'll link both of those so that, you know, someone really wants to see the whole 45 minutes they can or they can just see the 18 minute one. That's awesome. yeah I was about to ask how to find it because I need it. Yeah, it's really pretty. Yeah, it's beautiful. It was really, really pretty neat part of movie history, I think. I mean, I never obviously got to see the full thing with the full music, original music, but so this is extremely relevant because, let's see, I sent you a picture of Lon Chaney as the villain. So look at that link I just sent you. And I'll put this on our page as well. So he is pretty creepy looking, right? And I love it. Just look at that first picture, right? So it's beautiful, right? It it is really beautiful with those old pictures. So Raming eventually produced London After Midnight as a talkie later on, but he started Legosi instead, right? And how do we know Legosi? Because he has stands for doing Dracula, right?
00:09:55
Speaker
And so many, many things. Yes. So Browning named the remake of the movie, Mark of the Vampire, that was remade in 1935. But this one didn't really seem quite as spooky. And then there was a recent movie too, The Babadook. Yes. It was released in 2014. So it said that the monster in that movie, The Babadook, was based on the image of Lon Chaney in London after midnight. So I sent you that second picture.
00:10:20
Speaker
And you can kind of see like the similarities in the eyes and that crazed smile. Yeah. No, before you even sent that second picture, I, I can immediately see that. Yeah. of it yeah Yeah. And so I've seen this one too. and And it was, they do look pretty similar and it's a decent watch if anyone yeah hasn't seen it, but I am scared of everything. So, you know, just go into knowing that it's all relevant because in October 23rd, 1928,
00:10:48
Speaker
Robert Williams, he was 28 years old, unemployed. He was a Welsh carpenter. He was discovered on the ground in London Heights Park and he was discovered bleeding from the neck and he was disoriented. So this was after the movie? Yes, this was after the movie released. The movie released in 1927. Yes. And this happened in 1928. Okay. So Robert Williams discovered by the ah groundskeeper, right? He was just checking the grounds out.
00:11:16
Speaker
Beside him was a blood covered razor and an Irish house made named Julia Mangan and she was age 21. So the patrol officer stated that he leaned down to help Williams and he heard him say, quote, I did it. She's been teasing me. And then Mangan, he looked, she was just laying there clutching her neck wound and bleeding out. So she was still alive at this moment, but she couldn't do anything, right? Cause she is bleeding out. So she was rushed to the hospital, but died the next day.
00:11:43
Speaker
Information on this case is a little bit spotty. I'm not sure because it was a 1928 or just because it's pretty straightforward. But according to Julia's brother, Robert Williams and Julia Mangan have been seeing each other for about a month. And over this month, Williams' mental state seemed to decline. He admitted that for like two or three days before the murder, he had carried around the razor blade that he used in an attempt to end his own life. He wanted to end his own life. And he had also asked but apparently been asked by Mangan to stop drinking at one point in the relationship. So it kind of seems like maybe he was just drinking a lot, was a little suicidal, but he was telling investigators that he would never actually want to hurt her so he doesn't know what happened. So he told investigators that he and Mangan were friends, he wanted to marry her, and then she had refused. So Williams claimed the last thing he remembered was hearing Mangan whistling
00:12:39
Speaker
And then, quote, then I felt as if my head were going to burst and the steam was coming out of both sides. All sorts of things came to mind. I thought a man had me in a corner and was pulling faces at me. He threatened and shouted at me that he had me where he wanted me. End quote. Williams claimed to have seen visions of Lon Chaney's character urging him to kill a mangan, but that he never intended to hurt her.
00:13:05
Speaker
So he says, everything went black. He woke up at the hospital with a nurse washing his feet. And after seeing Lon Chaney's face from the movie, I mean, I could see where that face would stick with somebody, especially in like in the 1920s, right? They aren't seeing these kinds of things every day like we are. They don't have all this information on the how a horror movie makeup is made, whatever. I can see where this would have been extra horrifying, but not excusing the murder. But I could see where he's scared at least. But he's saying that basically Lon Chaney,
00:13:34
Speaker
convinced him to do it. So Robert Williams was charged with attempted suicide and murder. And during his child, he told the court that he committed the murder due to an epileptic fit after seeing the horrifying vision of Lon Chaney. The defense resulted in a hung jury and then a retrial was issued in 1929, so like a year later. And in this trial, the judge claimed he saw nothing that would indicate Williams was epileptic or that the vision of Chaney was enough to cause one.
00:14:03
Speaker
After being given this direction by the judge, the jury found Williams guilty, and he was sentenced to death by hanging. Two weeks later, the sentence was reversed by Home Secretary Sir William Johnson Hicks after reading the official medical report, claiming william Williams was in fact insane. Yeah, so there's medical reports saying he was insane, but the original judge was like, nah, nah, he's not eclectic. Let's just, let's just kill him. It's fine. So it was decided.
00:14:30
Speaker
that William should serve his sentence and brought more criminal lunatic asylum instead. And I hate to say that I honestly don't know which ones works. Knowing what we know of asylums at the time. Right. Kind of might have preferred. I know it's not a quick death to be hung, but those asylums were not right places to be during that time. Do we know what his stay was like or how he was treated once he was there? No, I know. There's nothing on him after that, right? So there's no records after that.
00:14:55
Speaker
But London After Midnight did become the first motion picture to ever explicitly be named as part of a murder case trial. So that's so interesting because like I said, it was in 1920s. It was a silent film originally. It was lost in a fire. Apparently it was a flop. And yet it still remembered to this day because it was the first one that was ever named as part of a murder trial. That's so sad because yeah if mental health care was anything at the time yeah i mean we've come a long way and we we all know like and especially like i said with the judge just being like yeah no he's not crazy even though there were plenty of things apparently enough for this home secretary to be like nah man he's insane we need to back off you know i wonder how that person knew i agree yeah no there wasn't a lot of information like i said i did so much digging trying to find out where did these records come from or about the trial but i do think you know maybe with it
00:15:50
Speaker
the way that she was murdered or something. There just wasn't a lot of information on it. I mean, that's it. That's that's the that's the end of London after midnight. And I just thought it was a really interesting case, like I said, because of how it was lost and yet still promoted.
00:16:07
Speaker
to tell me about Wizard of Oz because I love that movie. So I know it's like so overplayed and everyone thinks it's either really great or really horrible, but it's considered one of the greatest movies of all time still. When people do the big major lists on Time magazine and things like that, it's still in the top 10 pretty consistently across the board. So I'm i'm actually I was was going to ask if you had Wizard of Oz in your childhood because I very much did. Yeah, it was one of my my sick day movie Me too! That's in my notes. Yeah, it was definitely one of my sick day movies. Whenever I wasn't feeling good, I remember we put on a Wizard of Oz on VCR. Yes. And I loved how it would start in black and white and turn to color later. And I remember I would sit there with a bowl of Lipton's chicken noodle soup with the noodles. The new high, not the one with the chicken in it.
00:16:56
Speaker
and some crackers and I would just eat that and just just fall asleep to the music and wake up every once in a while but I love that movie I've seen it so many times and I love all of the music that goes along with it and I know it has some like pretty weird weird things that happened during the, not just the filming of it, but also like during the, just with the cast in general, like in, in casting. So I'm ready. I'm excited to hear about that. So first I need to talk about how much I love Wizard of Oz. It's been a big thing in my family. It was also a sick day movie for me. Me and my mother have quoted it at each other my whole life and still continue to do so. Not even just one part, but just,
00:17:36
Speaker
so much of it and i actually haven't seen it in a really long time and i guess sometime within the last year i rewatched it and i was going to rewatch it again after talking about it I was amazed how much every word of that movie is part of my DNA. And Judy Garland. Oh my gosh, Judy Garland. I love Judy Garland in that one. Yes. Judy Garland was also a big part of my childhood. Probably a big part of that was because of Wizard of Oz. Just her voice is beautiful. And then, you know, yeah, she, uh, we're going to talk about that a little bit. We'll get there. Okay. I mentioned her films before and
00:18:15
Speaker
As I was even researching my first cursed film, I i just became to hate the word cursed. but Yeah, because it's like, it makes it feel like it was a horrible, I mean, you know, horrible thing to happen. It makes a story for yourself to make it easier. I also watched the cursed films documenting around Shutter to get information for this, as well as other places that I'll link in the show notes. But in that was Adam Savage, who was in Mythbusters, because that is okay. He was one of the people who was talking about it with one of the talking heads.
00:18:43
Speaker
for the stories and he had this great quote so I'm going to quote Adam Savage. I think that when some people look at films that are super beloved and they hear stories about the difficulties or tragedies that that happen on set, they then go on to ascribe that production as cursed. Because it's hard to hear of these stories of tragedy and you want to believe that at least someone or something is in charge is because the reality is no one's in charge and the universe doesn't care about you but that is too crushing to encompass with our minds.
00:19:10
Speaker
So we come up with the idea that this production is cursed because it makes us feel a little bit better about the terrible things that have happened on set. I don't want to like poke at anybody's beliefs or anything like that. It's mostly this the fact that we use that to cope. In this kind of situation, we use that to cope. Yeah. And that's fine. We're all going to acknowledge that. I'm going to stop saying that movies are cursed. So but I am going to talk about the very dark things that happen on set.
00:19:33
Speaker
But first, a wee bit of history. Okay. The Wizard of Oz is based off of the book. It's a wonderful Wizard of Oz written by Frank L. Baum. I forgot about that. Yeah, man, I had this hardback set when I was a child of itty bitty thing in the 80s. And I don't date yourself. I'm pretty sure that that's gonna happen. in matter life because of I have to explain things this way. That's fair. But man, I wish I still had that book set because well, one, I would give it to to bash.
00:20:02
Speaker
it was just it was the hardback it had all of this art and it was beautiful and it was from decades before that because they were my mom's yeah so I don't know where they ended up or yeah where we parted ways but that memory but anyways the books but we're gonna just talk about the first book but that came out the book was published in 1900 it was written by somebody who was in the United States in the late 1890s or in the 1890s and in the things that were going on in America at that time so People frequently talk about the analysis of Henry Littlefield. He wrote his theories about the Wonderful Wizard of Oz in the 60s, so it was much later. Basically, he claimed that the novel is an allegory for the political and economic issues of the 1890s. It allegedly alluded to the rise of populism movement, which is basically the political approach that tries to appeal to every man, but their concerns are super disregarded from the elite groups, like everything's kind of run by the elite. I don't sound familiar.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, a little bit. So Littlefield claimed that every aspect of the book represented a significant amount to American politics at that time. The scarecrow represented farmers. The Tin Man represented industrialism. Dorothy represented that every man, supposed to be you, you're self insertion. A bit more specifically, he says that the cowardly lion was represented William Jennings Bryan who ran against William McKinley for president. McKinley is represented by the Wizard of Oz himself. I mentioned the the yellow brick road is the gold standard, which is how you measure what your money's worth. yeah The country uses gold, is that still? They wanted to go to silver or a biometallism kind of thing. Biometallargic, I don't know, there was a weird word in some weird way notes.
00:21:37
Speaker
and then the emerald city being green, green being the color of money. And how they were like locking themselves in, yeah. Yeah and then the uh in the book she had silver slippers but because of technicolor they wanted to do the ruby slippers yeah because they can really show that off but so there's the gold and silver there that was um indicated in the books. So this is just an analysis by this guy decades later and there there's a lot more to that theory and it's it's a fun read so I'm going to link that whole thing in the show notes. Cool.
00:22:03
Speaker
But having said that, while there were intentional American-specific symbolism and references, when I was reading about the author, Frank L. Baum, it feels more like this was more intended to be like a wonderful story for kids with thoughtful brushstrokes of Americana. Baum had an affinity for Alice in Wonderland and the works of Brothers Grimm, which, oh, we know my cat's name, and it's named after Brothers Grimm, pictures on Instagram.
00:22:27
Speaker
So he set out to create an American fairy tale and that's really what he did. I also just want to mention the inclusion of the good witch is likely influenced by his admiration for his feminist mother-in-law Matilda Jocelyn Gage and the research she did on the horrible things that happened to women who were accused of witchcraft.
00:22:42
Speaker
hmm so even even back then our feminists were i love that yeah again links to all of those because there's just so much to the story and i can't cover everything so so we're going to move on to the film so it was made in 1938 and released in august of 1939 so the book was written in early 1900s it was it was published in 1900 1900 okay and then the movie was made like what 20 30 years later 39 years later 39 years okay yeah So what's going on in 1939, you know? No, I don't. It's towards the end of the Great Depression. Okay. And the movie released in the United States, I think it's it's one or two weeks before World War Two started. Oh, wow. America wasn't involved yet. We did the whole being neutral shit, saying they were claiming neutrality is the words I'm looking for. Okay.
00:23:30
Speaker
That timing of this releasing is at least part of the extreme success of the movie, because everybody needed some hope at that time. And MGM, they found out that Snow White, which was a film for the family, it was a family film, did extraordinarily well for Disney, and they wanted to capture that too, but they were gonna do it live action, and they were gonna do it in technical. I'll say yeah, because Snow White was one of the first ones that was in color, wasn't it? Yes. Yeah, it was one of the first. The first big ones that was, yeah you know, really out there. yeah Because I remember like that movie started with it started in black and white until after the she got to the new land when she got to Oz. Yes, after the cyclone and her wonderful re rendition of somewhere over the rainbow. But NGN was super invested in making the best piece of art. We're going to call it that it does not excuse all of the shit that happened. Everything that happened was horrible, but they were committed to making this be as perfect as it could be. There was a lot of writers involved. There's a lot of things going on that could have made this fail, but it was just kind of this perfect storm that made that perfect movie that we see mostly perfect. We'll talk about that later. I was like, I thought it was beautiful. We already talked about how this was our sick day movie. This is where that landed in my notes. Did you ever watch the watch the movie with Dark Side of the Moon, The Pink Floyd? I think I did. Fair.
00:24:48
Speaker
I never did. I always loved Pink Floyd, and I always loved Elizabeth Ozzie, but I never actually sat down to do it. I think I always meant to, or and maybe it was on in the other room, but I never did it. So, but apparently that's a fun thing to do and it matches up with different things in the music. So I'll find a link for that for everybody too. But there's a lot of talk about the bad things that did happen on set. A lot of people talk about the munchkin that's supposedly hanging himself in the background. Yeah, but I never saw that. And I don't know, maybe I saw a remastered version or something, but I don't remember that.
00:25:18
Speaker
I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I don't remember it being on the actual film. Right, so the claim is that they remastered it to take out what was there and they put in birds instead. I've seen both and I don't really care why they remastered it. Has it been confirmed as real? No. Oh. I don't think that even the one that they say is the real thing. It doesn't look like that. Those set trees are not gonna hold a body like that. yes like it's I mean, I don't mean to be dark, I'm sorry, but I don't believe that that happened.
00:25:49
Speaker
ah There's people online, you can find videos online of people who swear and they like point at it and they have their grand theories and I think that one's a little far-fetched. Yeah. I'm not going to spend too much time. We're going to talk about the real things that actually happen. I'm not going to spend too much time on any particular one of them because I want to cover as many as I can.
00:26:08
Speaker
All right. So first we're going to talk about the Tin Man. Have you heard about the May I have stuff with that? Okay. And I heard that it wasn't the original actor that they chose. Exactly. So originally the role went to Buddy Epson. Well, okay. So it didn't originally go to Buddy Epson. It went to, I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, but it's Ray Bolger or Ray Bolger. Okay.
00:26:26
Speaker
but he originally got the role of Tin Man, but he really wanted the role of Scarecrow. Oh, interesting. So he approached the director and Buddy Epson was originally gonna be the Scarecrow. Ray went to the director and said, I really wanna be this. He went through the whole thing. Everybody was cool with it. Buddy was cool with it. He didn't care. And they both just switched. They just switched.
00:26:45
Speaker
they just switched and they, you know, buddy Epson was a dancer, which is why they wanted him to be the scarecrow because he could move into all the like, yeah yeah, but he taught Ray how to do it. And so he was able to to do the moves and everybody was happy with this, they went through rehearsals, but then it came time to film.
00:27:01
Speaker
What happened, the base of his makeup was like regular clown white grease paint, but then they dusted it with this aluminum powder. yeah And not only is that aluminum toxic to you in general, like to touch your skin, but I mean, they say that they had that barrier, right? But it also, he was breathing in that dust.
00:27:18
Speaker
I thought he had like an allergy to it. The allergy is the fact that it's toxic. Oh, wow. I thought he was just allergic to it and bed bad luck for him. No. Oh, wow. Okay. No, it was the fact that they use the dust and it coated his lungs and he was hospitalized and he was out. He just couldn't do it. Oh my God.
00:27:35
Speaker
Jack Haley stepped in to play the Tin Man at that point. They changed the makeup from an aluminum powder to an aluminum paste. Oh, good timing. Great. So yeah, so they did that. He still got an eye infection and stuff, like an irritated his skin still. So it still wasn't great. But at least he wasn't breathing it into his lungs. Right. Yeah. He was not hospitalized. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's basically it with the Tin Man. Next, I want to talk about the amazing Margaret Hamilton who played the Wicked Witch of the West. Okay. She also ended up getting hospitalized during filming. Oh, really?
00:28:05
Speaker
Yeah. In the scene when she first meets Dorothy, at the end she disappears in a burst of flame and a plume of thick red smoke. There is a trap door that after the the smoke comes up, it opens and and she goes down like a little elevator thing. Yeah. And then after she's down past the line, the flame comes up, so they use real fire. Oh my gosh. Right. So I mean, practical effects or die, right? Yeah. Like that's all they really had to work with then. So the first time it worked fine everything went as it should have. The second time either the elevator didn't go down fast enough or the fire went off too early and she was burned. And it was made worse by the fact that her green makeup was copper based. Oh no! Yeah. So she was taken out of production for three months. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I imagine she probably had some permanent damage. Yeah. That's so sad. Yeah, not great. But she came back.
00:28:54
Speaker
wow Right, so I don't know if I would have trusted anyone on set after that I mean, I understand like being an actor I guess in that time period but well, there's more. Oh good. Okay. Fantastic No safety curve apparently the scene where she's doing the sky riding. Yes. Okay on her broom, right? Yes There's the shots that are straight on and she's like cackling cackling and doing things and there's like sparks sparks and fire coming out Yes, I realize nobody can see me doing this
00:29:23
Speaker
me like there're spark as forensic off it's fine yes ah that's That's the scene in question at the moment. As they're getting ready to film that direct on thing, wardrobe comes over and brings her a flame retarded costume. And she's like, I'm sorry, what? She looked at that the fact that there was gonna be fire there and they wanted to put her in that scene again. And she's like, no, I'm good. I was gonna say, I would not trust them with fire again after that. Yeah, and then so her stunt double did it and there was a malfunction with the broom and then she had to be hospitalized for severe wounds. Oh my gosh. I would be like a afraid of fire for like the rest of my life.
00:29:58
Speaker
Yes, I'm sure she was. But yeah, at least she, ah I mean, not great for her stunt double. Yeah, but she saw it coming. Anyways, she's great as the Wicked Witch and I love her. Yes, yes. These are the ones that feel heavy to me because they're not things. I mean, they were things that happened during filming, but they also have lifelong effects for the people involved. This is going to be where we talk about the late great Judy Garland. Okay, thank you.
00:30:21
Speaker
The actors in this movie that was so very, very important to be done exactly correctly, just because they were stars, just because she was the star does not mean that she had any control over anything. She was really young too, wasn't she? She was. To keep her thin, they gave her pills. To keep her awake and energetic, they gave her pills.
00:30:44
Speaker
to counteract that so she could sleep. They gave her pills. Oh, that's so sad. I don't believe that this is the first film set that did this to her. It most definitely was not the last. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. Well, that's it. I mean, she she died from a drug overdose. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it's really As amazing as she is and the fantastic entertainment she brought to so many people, there's a lot of video evidence of interviews and stuff she's done over the years where she's clearly intoxicated and having a hard time. Oh, that's so sad. She was so talented. She was so talented. It's it's just... really awful, but this is that the drug things wasn't the only problem that they had with this. Another messed up thing that happened. There's a scene with the Cowardly Lion. Actor Burt Larr, who played the Cowardly Lion, i kept making her laugh. and Everything thing he was doing, she just she just had a big fit of the giggles and just could not quit it. But obviously every moment was very expensive for the studio. So the director, Victor Fleming, took her behind a tree on the set and smacked the crap out of her. Oh my gosh. Yep, he did immediately feel bad. But
00:31:46
Speaker
I mean, he fucking did it. Yeah. That doesn't excuse. No. No, it does not. Let me just smack you. Oh, I'm sorry. Right. That's horrible. It is horrible. This whole thing it was basically a factory to make this movie and they are all just the the factory workers and they're being put through it and they have to listen because you're like ruining this movie for me though because like I said it was my sick day movie it was my comfort movie and now I'm gonna think of all these horrible things. There's a lot of other wonderful things that happened with this movie and it is amazing. Ruined. No.
00:32:20
Speaker
Watch it again and you'll be good. Because even, okay, even the really dark thing I'm about to tell you after this that I actually feel is there's more? Yes.
00:32:30
Speaker
With Judy Garland, there's other instances. Okay, so I was ready to transition to the thing that is darker, but I want to preface this with the fact that the actors that played the Munchkins got to have extraordinary lives because of the Wizard of Oz. Really? But they also... I imagine they weren't treated well. They were not treated well in a lot of ways, and there was a lot of assumptions and stereotypes being made. And I'm gonna kind of get into that a little bit more, but Despite all of that, they had an extreme love for Judy Garland, they they had an extreme love for their time on the film, and you know, in general love their involvement. There were a lot of bad things that came out of it, so let me get into that. So this is the mistreatment of the little people that played the Munchkins. It played them well beyond the end of production. There were
00:33:13
Speaker
over 120 actors playing the Munchkins, and they all stayed in the same hotel in Culver City during production. Like all large groups of performers, there's bound to be that pocket of rowdy assholes. Yeah, they're very anxious. Yeah. Yes. But unfortunately, whatever happened in that very small group of people, rumors made it seem like the whole group was very rowdy. and There was rumors of debaucherous, drunken orgies taking place all over the hotel in public. Yikes. Right. So yeah, there's bound to be a few that are rowdy, but... Yeah, a few bad eggs just ruined the whole budget. It really did. It creates a reputation that's like impossible to break down. I know I keep saying this, guys, but it's sad. it's so Is it sad? It's just sad.
00:33:53
Speaker
So with the allegations of the loud drunken parties and or orgies and and destructive behavior, there is no specific stories. There's like that nothing specific and people assume these stories are truth and then apply them to all of them. Unfortunately, and one of those previously mentioned Judy Garland drunken interviews, I say drunken, I don't know if it's, I don't know, but she was not sober.
00:34:14
Speaker
She was on ah The Jack Parr Show, and this was in the 60s, so you know two decades later. she was She was telling stories about being on side of The Wizard of Oz, and and she was just trying to be funny. I mean, you can cannot kind of tell when you look at the whole clip, but she said that the Munchkins were drunks and that they were just rowdy and and whatever.
00:34:32
Speaker
But then she was also saying like when they were scooping them up with bug mets, like she was clearly trying to be funny, but when you're not sober, you're not thinking. And, yeah you know, even without the internet, especially when everybody has three channels, words go viral. So it became part of the Wizard of Oz zeitgeist. Those actors, all of those wonderful actors were asked about those rumors for the rest of their lives. Like that never went away. That sucks. What made it worse though, in 1981, there was a movie called Under the Rainbow that came out. Okay. And it had some big names. Chevy Chase was in it, Gary Fisher was in it, and it looked like it was like a production for the time. It doesn't look like anything else. If you look it up and you haven't really seen a lot of 80s, early 80s movies, it's gonna look jarring, but it's...
00:35:15
Speaker
i love that but from the time But okay, so the director was at a Steve rash and it's about it basically the movie is about a hotel that gets booked by some unlikely guests like and Like an assassin and a duchess and I'm probably saying these things wrong But it's like a lot of like weird like clue time random Yeah, and then also all of the munchkins from was revised much Okay, right. So it depicted the munchkins was drawing the hotel swinging from chandeliers and just committing all sorts of shenanigans the director after having watched it for the first time and
00:35:48
Speaker
decades was horrified at how racist, sexist, and elitist it was. He no longer thinks it's funny, and honestly, that's a hard thing to admit. Yeah. So I planned him for that. He was on the Cursed Films documentary on on Shutter. Like, as one of the people talking. As one of the people talking, yeah. He seems like a cool dude. Like, he's he has genuine remorse about what what he did, and he said something like, some people find that funny, I no longer do. Anyways, so I thought that was at least something, but the movie just perpetuated rumors and made it harder on little people in general. Or the stereotype that everything they did was funny, like everything that they do is funny. something yeah yeah None of, I think only one of the little people in that whole movie, The Under the Rainbow, was even a character. The rest of them were just
00:36:31
Speaker
extras. Yeah. Yeah, just generic little person number 120. So that's the severely abridged version of the horrible shit that happened on the set of Wizard of Oz. That's really sad. It is really sad. Sorry, I need to write another descriptor, but it's really sad. It was. I'll get you at the source. Thank you.
00:36:51
Speaker
Seriously, that's, there's a lot of information out there about the making of this truly iconic movie. I mean, there's, there are good stories that are to be had. I wasn't here to talk about those today. That's why I feel bad because like, I don't want to completely ruin the movie for you. There is a lot of great stuff that came from this. Oh, but yeah, I was going to say there's a lot of information about there. Lots of university papers that are really well researched and thorough and cited, like they have a like links and stuff where you can go to see where they research their information. And I'll put some of those links in the show notes too, because I kept going down rabbit holes. There's just so much, so much information to find about the Wizard of Oz, the making of, yeah all of that stuff. i I just pressed Google and that was a mistake. You pressed Google? I pressed the Googles. I did a Google. You tell me I'm aging myself. Listen, I sound older than I actually am. I know. I'm just an old soul.
00:37:43
Speaker
You really are. I very frequently forget that you are... Yeah, it's really weird. I don't know where I got half this information from because even like my sister who's older than me doesn't have all this information. It's a life force thing when you were draining my life force. I accidentally left a little bit in there.
00:38:00
Speaker
but
00:38:02
Speaker
Oh, God. I shouldn't end that, right? No! All right. Well, I mean, you know I will say you made me really sad. I might have to watch it again. You really shouldn't. It's like I knew that there were problems with Judy Garland like not like she was a problem but you know what I mean like that makes me sad though. I didn't realize that all that stuff had happened to her and I knew she was really young when she'd started the movie but there were a lot of really really great things about that movie that were just very comforting and I did I did remember doing I think I do remember trying to read the book when I was younger and it just didn't work out for me just
00:38:40
Speaker
wasn't my cup of tea. I do remember having I think I had to do like a a research paper, but basically like and analysis on the movie for something and I don't remember what it was for. Yeah we were going into what the symbolism was and in like a lion and the and the tin man and and the wicked witch and all of that but. I think I've always had kind of a thing for the girl going on an adventure thing. I love Alice in Wonderland. I love I do. Labyrinth. Yeah. yeah Others. but My brain isn't thinking. I'm really surprised you haven't seen Once Upon a Time. It's a show.
00:39:12
Speaker
Oh, I saw the first season and I was really mad that they wrapped it up perfectly and then ruined it in the last eight seconds of the show. And so I refuse to watch anymore. But I think that... There's so much more that gets into it. I know. Every season you get a new don't on time. I know, but it was like, it could have been perfect. They could have, they could have ended it there. I know, but like... But why? Yeah, I know. There was so much to explore and I get it. I get it. That's, that wraps up.
00:39:41
Speaker
The Wizard of Oz. That you've ruined. I know! I need you to still love it. We'll see what happens. ah Watch it and then text me everything. I am disappointed. In what? In life. Oh I know. Just because of the movie though. So the more you know. Like it's just it was my comfort and now I'm not feeling so comforted. You knew what this was. That's true. I did. I kind of set myself up for failure. I guess.
00:40:11
Speaker
what else just set yourself up for like
00:40:15
Speaker
excitement. Maybe. The thrill of my life. Okay, well you gave me a quiz last time. I did. You did. You gave me a quiz. I'm not giving you a quiz. Have you ever played would you rather? Like never have I ever. No, I never have I ever. It's would you rather. Okay.
00:40:36
Speaker
This horrible thing or that horrible thing? Oh wait, yeah, those are two separate things, you're right. So never have I ever is... Have you ever done this fucked up thing? If you have or haven't, then you drink it. Sorry, I drank some gum juice, it's fine. We can do this now. So would you rather? Cool. Some of this is dark. What the sound? What was that sound? It sounded like you swallowed a vomit. What was that?
00:41:06
Speaker
Do I want to know? I'm going to start with that one so you can know what the most I didn't react to. Would you rather have every mirror you look into show your future or your death? That's rude. Definitely not death because Final Destination really destroyed me. Like I already can't live my life at all.
00:41:34
Speaker
And so like knowing what like how I'm going to die, even if it just showed water, I would be like, I've never, ever, I don't know what, how do you survive that? I don't know. So definitely that the mirror, I hate mirrors already though. I'm always afraid that something spooky is going to happen.
00:41:58
Speaker
definitely. I think I prefer the mirror that shows the future. Even though that would suck, but yes. Okay. Moving on. We're going to do three of these. Would you rather sleep in a coffin for one night or spend the night in a morgue? Where are they though? Like where's the coffin and where's the morgue? Like I told you, I wanted to be a Friends of Pathologists. I'm not too afraid of being in a morgue. What am I doing in the morgue? You're going to have a nap. A nap? Like anywhere? like it long as Like you're in the room with the drawers. Okay. Do I get a blanket though? Cause I get cold. I would imagine. Okay.
00:42:32
Speaker
you don't even have a pillow like so let's say there's a cod yeah like as long as it's not i'm like laying on body juice or anything like i mean i'm just being realistic you're in a morgue you know what i mean like as long as it's clean and i'm just chilling i'm fine not chilling though because i don't want to be cold but i'm like the coffin thing actually and i don't think i like the coffin thing because i have this thing where i don't like feeling hot breath. You know what I mean? Like, I would sleep in a casket that has the top open. Yeah, the top open is fine. But you know, but yeah, I'm claustrophobic as hell. Yeah, I'm not really, I wouldn't say I'm claustrophobic. I'm just like, like, I like to sleep with the blanket over my ear. Because like, it just feels nice to be like all like cozy. But like, my, my nose has to be out because I need fresh cold air. Yes. You know?
00:43:16
Speaker
So more, definitely. That's kind of part of the claustrophobic thing, though, is because I feel like I can't get fresh cold air if I'm. Oh, you just like instilled a new fear in this. I haven't this. Sorry. Ruining my life every second you're here. It's the nightmare. It is a nightmare cottage and you are making this very nightmarish. Well.
00:43:38
Speaker
Would you rather walk through a forest where the trees have faces and whisper your name or swim in a lake where shadows swim beneath the surface? No, a hundred percent the trees. yeah That would be cool. Water with anything. No, no, I can't be in water that I can't like, I have to be able to feel the ground. And even then I have been in water where I can feel the ground, but I can't see anything. And I can't deal with that. Like, even if it's a swimming pool, like I don't,
00:44:07
Speaker
It's that, that jaws fear. I don't. In a pool? Yes. I understand that there can't realistically be a shark in a pool. Okay. You know what? I know exactly what it was because my mom used to tell me all the time, be careful when you're diving. Cause I used to be on the diving team. She'd say, be careful when you're diving, because I ah heard of a little girl who got her bathing suit stuck in the drain and then she drowned and died. And so I'm like, I'm just afraid that I'm going to get stuck on something or suctioned into something and just drown.
00:44:34
Speaker
Same thing with like lakes. She was like don't ever swim in lakes or rivers because you're gonna, a logs gonna come and get you and it's gonna drag you under and you're gonna die. Now my mom was like... who I wonder why you have anxiety. That's true. I don't know. I mean some of that is the same for me. and but In my family I was never allowed to swim at at the lakes when we would go we'd yeah fishing or camping or whatever but we weren't allowed to get into the water.
00:45:01
Speaker
And my parents would say ah the words water moccasins, which is what kept me not wanting to do that ever. But later I went to go stay with a friend where there was a lake. They got into the freaking water all the time. So I did that there. And then at another point, I somehow ended up at one of the lovely Texas beaches. Yeah. And I'll just leave that as what I just said. And I got into that water.
00:45:28
Speaker
because my my step-siblings did and that was okay I guess then too but I now right now knowing what I know yes I still remember with my dad I always wait to go in with my dad because he would let me piggyback on him and so he would be like doggy paddling and I mean obviously he could reach a lot further so he'd be doing that weird bouncy thing right on the ground but like I was because the second oh I hate that shift when it's like, everything's warm, everything's warm, and it's suddenly cold. And you're like, I've hit deep water, I've hit deep water, there's horrible things here, I can't do it. So when I had that experience, I didn't have any fear because I had i didn't know any better. Yes. And so, but i got to I got to experience it with that that childlike, just wonder. Yeah, before you knew what horror was, what absolute terror was, what being dead was.
00:46:25
Speaker
but Besides your parents telling you. It got a little worse another time when I went to another beautiful Texas beach and there were like, when we would, we would dive into the waves, but that we were diving into schools of fish. Oh my gosh. And the first time that happened, and there was also jellyfish. I was just, Oh man. It just kind of, that probably started it because I just don't want to go with jellyfish. Yeah. We went to one that had the stingrays at the bottom. And I remember they were telling, like they had signposts everywhere, like careful stingrays.
00:46:55
Speaker
And they were telling us to shuffle our feet to make sure you don't step on them. Because if you just shuffle, they'll like go away. But if you step on them, they'll like try to murder your face. Sure. But you got to go in there anyways. Oh, yeah. I'm not an- Moving on. I'm clearly not a not-door kid. At least not even anymore.
00:47:18
Speaker
Aside from my garden, I'm safe in my garden. Yeah, but I'll go walking on a symmetra. It's really funny, like the amount of times like I would just go walking off in the woods with no like path and be fine and you know.
00:47:37
Speaker
Well, cool. I would like to perhaps try a little thing called nightmare fuel. Oh, God, what's that? So this is going to be a place where we can recommend spooky shit that we like. spooky shit. Yeah. So as an example, today, I'm going to recommend a book I just read called I was a Teenage Slasher by Stephen Graham Jones. So I actually listened to it on audible and it was a great narration.
00:48:07
Speaker
It's ah set in ah the 1980s in West Texas, and the the the narrator did not butcher the accent because I think they it was a real accent. Anyways, it was it was super good. It was fun. It had a humor to it, which is kind of required for for me. And if you enjoy plays on tropes, not unlike Scream, you know, where you're playing on the fact that it's movie tropes, it kind of dives into that a bit. And it's fun. So I recommend that.
00:48:37
Speaker
love it. I'll hopefully have something for you. Yeah, and it can be whatever if you just find a cool link, or if you find it's a movie, a book, a song, an artist, whatever, a thing you like, whatever the hell you want, because it's our podcast. Or something I learned. What did you learn? So I learned that the author of Frankenstein, Mary Shelley, that she, her husband, Percy, he drowned. And apparently his body and those of a few other sailors it was found like 10 days later like after he had drowned right so obviously he died and then so they were cremated and his heart didn't burn they think it's because he had tuberculosis earlier in life so Mary Shelley being the absolute nutter that she was decided to just keep his heart in a little silk bag and just carry it she carried it around she didn't even like just you know put it on her mantle if she carried it around which i mean okay
00:49:35
Speaker
I mean, I understand it kind of like was not cremated and didn't burn, but like, wouldn't it still rot? Am I crazy? Or was it just smoked? It was like smoke. I'm not sure. Mary Shelley is the original macabre goth bitch. And I love the hell out of her. She was the mother of science fiction. I know it's not it doesn't excuse that fucked behavior if that's true. And because I know there was like real yuckers. That's all I'm saying.
00:50:06
Speaker
but I agree, but it still makes a good story. and Yes, it's true. So that's my nightmare fuel is just imagine you invitee your friend over to dinner and she just brings her husband's heart in a little soap bag everywhere. so But even more so, I encourage you to look up facts about Mary Shelley because she's a badass. Interesting.
00:50:31
Speaker
All right. Well, thank you for joining us today. Hopefully we'll get better at this and stop laughing at horrible, horrible things that we shouldn't be laughing at. But I doubt it because we both have horrible anxiety. And we're sitting in our nightmare car. It is just full of nightmare fuel that just keeps making us more anxious. But it's mostly in boxes, so we're going to unpack it as we go. Indeed. Indeed. See you all next time. Bye.
00:50:55
Speaker
If you have topic suggestions, movie or book recommendations, questions for the cottage, or just want to say hi, you can email us at nightmarecottage at gmail dot.com. You can find us on Instagram at nightmarecottage and on our website at nightmarecottage.com. Sleep tight, if you dare.