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Workplace Happiness, Retention, and Letting Go with Ruthann Peace Brown
6 Plays7 days ago
In the very first episode of MustardHub Voices: From the Frontlines, Julie sits down with Ruthann Peace Brown, a longtime Primrose Schools franchise owner, educator, and founder of RPB Consulting.
Ruthann shares what it really looks like to lead from inside the business—through COVID, staffing shortages, growth, and personal burnout—while still building a culture where people want to stay. Drawing from her background in teaching and entrepreneurship, she breaks down why retention is often about simple human connection, not expensive perks, and why delegation is one of the hardest (and most necessary) leadership skills to learn.
This conversation explores work-life balance in frontline environments, generational shifts in expectations, and the uncomfortable but freeing process of letting go so others can lead. It’s an honest, funny, and deeply practical discussion for owners and operators who want to build sustainable businesses and still have a life outside of work.
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Transcript
Introduction to Mustard Hub Voices and Guest
00:00:06
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Mustard Hub Voices from the Front Lines. Here's where we talk with leaders who roll up their sleeves and work side by side with their teams. From healthcare care to hospitality, retail to the trades, we're diving into real stories and real strategies from the people who make it happen every day.
00:00:23
Speaker
And today i am so happy this is our first episode of Mustard Hub from the front lines. And I'm here with Ruthann Peace Brown. ah She is one of my favorite people. ah She is a Primrose School franchise owner ah who owns a few schools in Ohio. and does a lot of really cool stuff. ah So welcome, Ruthann. If you could hop right in and tell us about yourself, tell us about um your business, you know, give us the scoop.
Ruthann's Entrepreneurial Journey
00:00:54
Speaker
I'd love to. Thank you, Julie. Hi. I'm so excited to be here and I'm super, I don't know how to say it, just so...
00:01:07
Speaker
Touched that you picked me to be first. Thank you. That's so sweet and so kind. um Yes, I'm a Primrose owner, a franchise owner in the Cincinnati market in Ohio. I joined Primrose in 2015. And so it's been 10 years. We made it through COVID, which was hard for everyone, I'm sure.
00:01:28
Speaker
And in 2023, I started doing some consulting work and started RPB Consulting. And since then, have started writing my book, which will come out next year. or So it's exciting.
00:01:43
Speaker
That is really exciting. And I'm very excited for you to be a published author. Like, it's such a fulfilling journey. and you know It's also a really good part of even self-discovery and you get to learn more about yourself um in the process. So um it's all really exciting. I think it's exciting like 20 times over. I'm just really happy you're here.
00:02:04
Speaker
Oh, me too. It is. And honestly, in the process of researching for the book and things that I really wanted to talk about with franchise owners and business owners and just even everyday individuals and young people and our employees and just being happy in general is for everyone.
Transition from Teaching to Business Ownership
00:02:27
Speaker
And that's what it's about is about finding happiness, not only in the workplace, but in your everyday life, because that's what we're here for. Right. No, exactly.
00:02:39
Speaker
Why I love Mustard Hub, I mean, i think I beat down Curtis to get involved well far before he was ready. Well, you know, it's one of our slogans is talking about, you know, trying to be you know, you want to be a destination for workplace happiness and someone who, you know, you're kind of this bastion of love and light and happiness and enthusiasm. um So, you know, it makes it makes sense that it's not only just about workplace happiness, it's just like, in general, like, what the what the heck else are we doing here?
00:03:07
Speaker
Right. I mean, if it's not fun, i don't really want to participate. And I feel like most people feel that way. It's why yeah became a teacher. i didn't like school. School wasn't fun. So I was going to be a teacher to make school fun. And it was. We had a great time in my classroom. And so it it transitioned into that when I became a franchise owner was that work's not fun.
00:03:31
Speaker
Let's make it fun. And employees, I tell them all the time, i want you to come to work and want to be here and be happy. and I'm going to celebrate you if you do something else with your life. But if you're coming in every day with a smile, we're winning and you're winning. Yeah.
00:03:49
Speaker
I mean, so what made you decide to transition you know from teaching to owning a business? What made you decide to be like, I am going in with this and going full entrepreneur?
00:04:00
Speaker
Yeah. um I will tell you that some of my teacher friends were like, are you nuts? Are you crazy? Like, why? We get summers off. Like, why? Why would you do that? um I come from an entrepreneur entrepreneurial um hu entrepreneurial family. So I come from an entrepreneurial background and family. And so with that, the fear of jumping or leaping isn't as strong in me. yeah um So that was easy. But going from teaching to a small business was kind of, I always knew that i was going to be in administration. i just didn't know if it was going to be in public school or on my own.
00:04:47
Speaker
And when I realized that I could selfishly make more money working for myself, I went
Learning Through Business and Consulting
00:04:56
Speaker
that route. um And I was very, very lucky to have people that believed in myself and my vision and the franchise that i chose to be a part of to back that because I was a teacher. So I financially couldn't afford to do any of that myself. Yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker
So you have to get creative in these spaces be able to ebb and flow and flex in and all of those things. And being flexible is the reason that we survived COVID. It's the reason that corporate asked me to speak to 500 plus schools about best practices for retention of staff during COVID.
00:05:32
Speaker
It's because those things matter. and you know, it's honestly selfish. It costs me less time and money to keep people than it does to have turnover.
00:05:45
Speaker
No, a thousand a thousand percent. You know, and it's, it's i I really appreciate that, you know, as you've been taking these learnings from your your um your experience as a Primrose owner to your consulting practice as well, because these are, you know, um before working with Mustard Hub, I came from the agency space ah in marketing.
00:06:06
Speaker
And, you know, you learn all these things as you're running your business. And some of these, you're like, oh my gosh, I'm a genius. And then other times you're like, oh my God, that was so dumb. And you're like, and everyone else is about to do the same thing. So being able to have that perspective to be like, okay, well, let's guide you in the right direction. And like, I'm always thinking like, oh dear God, if you do not need to make this mistake too, like, let's let's get there. So, you know, I i admire that you're you know, kind of sharing the wealth a little bit when it comes to your your knowledge and experience and, you know, what you've built up there.
Embracing Change and Growth
00:06:39
Speaker
It feels very much like parenting. um And I think that's probably why teaching, parenting, they kind of are so similar in the sense that, you know, I've reached an age and a maturity in my ownership where I'm in that middle ground, right? I'm not brand new, but I'm also not stuck in my ways.
00:06:59
Speaker
And we say, you know, if you're not willing to grow, it's time to go. um Because it is. It's time to rest. If you're not growing, it means you're in a season of rest.
00:07:09
Speaker
It's time to relax. It's time to appreciate the things that you've contributed and sit back and watch as the next round of people cultivate. right and And that's something that we see all across our country of people who are afraid to let go because they've lived in these careers. And so then you have people under them who are ticked because they're ready to shine. They're ready to show what they can do and change the world and in all of the ways that they've been ready to do it and technology and all of the things and and people aren't letting off. Right? Yeah.
00:07:48
Speaker
all of All of this is my jam, right? Like teaching and because we have in my family, we call it love and launch. In my classroom, it's love and logic. and But it's that we're preparing individuals to, like you said, not make the same mistakes we made.
00:08:12
Speaker
And so if I'm in this middle zone where I'm not stuck in my ways, but I'm not green, Don't make it so hard on yourself. You don't have to. Let me tell you what I've already done and screwed up that's still technologically valid to you.
00:08:30
Speaker
And then also teach me how to not get stuck in my ways and also relax when its and let go and be ready to... you know, actually enjoy myself because everybody before me said, you have to clock in and clock out till you die.
00:08:47
Speaker
soon I don't want to, none of us do. i don't think anybody in my age group and lower, we don't want to. Right. So we have to learn how to let go of what generations told us for years.
00:09:02
Speaker
You, you have to do this until you're 65, until you're 70, you know, now they're saying till you're 70, Wrong. None of us want to do that. So let's let's find ways to utilize who we have because it'll cost us less time and money to do it and we'll all be happier for it.
Work-Life Balance and Leadership Style
00:09:22
Speaker
A thousand percent. i don't know about you, but I want to see a beach before I'm 65. Right. Exactly. Exactly. I'm like, I'm tired already. I don't want to keep going that long. I'm already tired. Okay. And I don't know one mom or dad or millennial in general who's not tired.
00:09:41
Speaker
We're all tired. ka We've lived through every ah promise of an apocalypse known to man and they don't ever happen. and we're like, yeah, right. We'll still be at work on Monday. Cause what's today? Monday. Where am I? At work.
00:09:54
Speaker
Right. Tell me there's aliens. That's fine. I'll still be at work on Monday, but I want to clock out and go on my PTO and not be bothered while there's aliens.
00:10:06
Speaker
I don't care. but Let me see Area 51 on my own PTO time without an email. Prepare the others. Yeah. No, they're really it's true. They're really, one, there has to be balance, period. Like, we can't be on all the time. And then, two, like, I mean, we well, there are some people who live to work.
00:10:30
Speaker
Most of us, most of us don't. We're working to live. We hopefully are working with things that we are passionate about and we enjoy and we care about. But- You know, there's there's a time to maybe, you know, have that turn into a hobby or visit the beach and and spend more time there than you do behind ah your desk or behind a counter or, you know. Well, and there are people, look, there are some jobs where you have to be on twenty four seven Look, Mr. Lighthousekeeper, thank you.
00:10:59
Speaker
Thank you. I'm glad that you work and live there. You are on 24-7, but I'm guessing you love that life. I'm guessing you signed up for that life.
00:11:09
Speaker
You wanted that. I don't want to be on twenty four seven So we yeah, our society requires people who love to work and yeah who live that life and they're thrilled about it.
00:11:21
Speaker
You know, i'm I'm grateful for that because our ecosystem needs the balance. yeah But I'm not that person and I want to be equally loved for not being that person.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah, no, that is that is so that is so fair. So as you are not being that person then, in your terms of like with with your schools, what does your role look like now in those businesses? Like how often are you, you know, in the trenches um with with the kiddos? Yeah.
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah. So it looks very different during the summer than it does during the school year, ah just because of my personal life with my kids. But if I were talking about maybe this year versus last year, It's very different. And it's very different because I've learned that the best way to lead is through delegation. and um let's be honest, teachers, as as in many professions, we're type A. We like to control our little um environments, right? um This is my...
00:12:27
Speaker
little environment that I get to say how things go and these are the rules of my classroom and I get to dictate how it goes, right? Yeah. And all of us, our favorite teachers, were the ones who allowed us to be part of the rulemaking process. Yeah. and so that for me is everything, right?
00:12:48
Speaker
That's how i ebb and flow is by getting – to pull my staff, my people, everybody into the decision-making process. And that's kind of how this works for our schools. That's how the system works for us is, you know, yeah, we, we picked a system, but they're picking the reward.
00:13:15
Speaker
no Yeah. they're Right. So they, it's kind of like when I tell my kids, you have to shower but do you want a shower tonight or do you want a shower right now? You have to do it. It's not a choice, but I give them perceived power, right? Yeah.
00:13:30
Speaker
That's a lot of what this is is, I'm not giving up the power of the owner, even though I'm not there day, like herping on everyone. And yeah not i don't want to say herping because that sounds awful, but i honestly, the micromanaging that comes very easily because let's be honest,
00:13:50
Speaker
This is my business. This is my livelihood. This is my family's livelihood. We are in it. And so letting go for most people is like the kiss of death in their mind.
00:14:08
Speaker
so So I've surrounded myself with people who are strong where I'm not. And others that are strong where I am to be me when I'm not there. And then the ones who are, you know, who have talents where I lack, they are able to shine the light on things. And because let's, in the grand scheme of things, I'm a visionary.
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah. I love ideas and I can see the big picture and I can fix a big problem, but I don't want to be in the weeds. I don't. I don't want to stand in line Kroger for three hours to get gift cards for Christmas. I love all of my people so much, but my time is so valuable, right? So all of these things kind of I feel like I've gone on a tangent now, no but really are the reason why we're here.
00:15:06
Speaker
you know ah I think you've touched on so many things that so important. And I think one of the big ones is, you know while we think of being, you know again, title of the series, From the Front Lines, a lot of times people are thinking, well, I'm the business owner, and so I'm going to be in it, and I got to do the things, and I have my hands all the pies.
00:15:21
Speaker
But the reality is, you're just not going to be that effective if you are really trying to be in everywhere. Like you really have to realize where your time is best is spent, what, what your strengths are, and then who you have on your team who can best handle these things so that you, you can actually be the most effective in growing your business and supporting your people and creating this kind of environment that where people can be happy because, you know,
00:15:50
Speaker
If you are managing multiple schools, you running this consulting practice, you can't be in line at Kroger. Can you imagine how frustrating it would be for the people who work with you if they're like, oh my gosh, there's an emergency. And you're like, oh, sorry, I'm like seven people deep because these Starbeast cards won't I had to get the gift cards. Yeah, sorry, I had to get the gift cards. And guy told me he wasn't sure I could count to 75.
00:16:18
Speaker
Yeah. well No, exactly. You know what i mean? And then you run into just people in life, right? And this guy is not doing any harm. You know, he's just asking a question. But you're when you're already frustrated, because this comes from real life events. I mean, I really stood at Kroger for three hours for Christmas gift cards.
00:16:37
Speaker
um So you have somebody telling you that, you know, are you sure you got 75? Sir, I taught first grade and we counted to 100 every day. I got this.
00:16:48
Speaker
I got counting to 75. I promise. Right? But he's just doing his job. So you get those normal frustrations of life in there too. And I will tell you, i mean, you know that I had to part ways with a business partner last year.
00:17:05
Speaker
And my children have told me, they're like, Mom, we're tired of seeing the top of your head on your computer. miss you. And, you know, – i I love what I do.
00:17:20
Speaker
um and people probably would have said, oh, Ruthie doesn't have work-life balance. And until the last year, i wouldn't have agreed with them. And my children wouldn't have either. They would have said, yeah, we go to events for the schools, but mommy's present at my stuff and she watches movies with us and all the things until this last year. and it really took everything. And it took every tool – to keep the culture that I had built when I came on um but to keep that even though we lost a very integral part of our group.
00:18:00
Speaker
And then Mustard Hub was a huge part of that because we were moving in a wave of younger individuals and And we have restructured our management program to now where I'm touching very high level things. And I took my son to his ambassador training today at school.
00:18:20
Speaker
And yeah that's not something I could have done before. It would have been my husband would have had to drop him off. It would have been a tag team. And now, you know, being able to trust others with things, see, that's, you know, a thing I had to let go. Yeah. and You can do this. And I hired you to do it. Yeah. See, why am I paying somebody to do something if I'm going to do it?
00:18:45
Speaker
Why wouldn't I fire them, pay myself if I'm going to do the work anyway and miss out with my family? Yeah. Or I could let the people that I've hired to do their job, one of which has um a doctorate who is, you know, on paper more intelligent than me. And why wouldn't let her do her job?
Enjoying Work and Life as an Entrepreneur
00:19:08
Speaker
Yeah, right? Right? Like, yes, Dr. Shannon Reeves, here is your shout out. You can do it all. and i And I trust her implicitly. She is capable, competent, and caring. Of course she's going to make the right choices. And if I didn't hire somebody who could – then i needed to I need to let them go and find someone who can because I can't do it all. No one can.
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah. and And I think that's what this helps us realize is the more you kind of lean into this life, you're like,
00:19:43
Speaker
I kind of felt wrong. Like, I really feel like this it's like this trend, like, is this illegal? like yeah know like I feel like it's wrong that I should should be enjoying work that like this. Yeah.
00:20:00
Speaker
No, it's it's so interesting. And what we're going to shift a little bit and talk about people problems. But one, as an entrepreneur, yeah, it almost feels wrong as you start to be able to actually so establish work-life balance. Because you know one of the things, too, there's also so many generational approaches to this. And I think there's you know there's certain folks that feel a certain way. And I think you know i don't like to lump generations together. But you know there is that kind of especially elder millennial approach.
00:20:26
Speaker
urge, where it's like, we've seen so much of from our boomer parents, and we've seen so much from the Gen Xers that we probably are older, you know, our younger, older relatives that we probably grew up were married to, or we' married to there you go i had one of those ones as well. And, you know, as you're, you're, you know, you're like, Okay, well, you know, it's like, you know, work hard, you do things. It's like, well well, no, like, again, that live to work or work to to live. I i personally am a fond of, you know, working, you know, working to live. um And it's like, you have to think too. And I think this sometimes gets lost depending on the industry. Like,
00:21:05
Speaker
your employees wanna do that too. And I think sometimes, i don't know, I feel like there's certain work environments where that are more flexible. If you're behind a desk, you're able to have like things like possibly unlimited PTO or Fridays off or whatever that's going to be. But in a lot of businesses, um you have these undesked employees that it's like, no, like you're you're with kids. You can't just not, we can't take, fright we can't say, oh, we just take Fridays off because- yeah Yeah. Yeah. Then you'll just have a bunch of like children, like standing outside of these locked doors and a lot of really pissed off um yeah piss off parents, you know? So it's, it's just doesn't work like that. But of course, you know, these people, your employees need work-life balance too. And there's things that they want.
00:21:51
Speaker
So I guess how two parts, first part is in terms of work-life balance, Do you think that employers, one, are getting it, particularly around when it comes to these different generations and like what the heck it is people want? And then two, getting tips and tricks or like how like people like if maybe reframe the conversation to be like, OK, business owner to business owner. Yeah, let's fix this. And this is kind of some of the things that we talk about in my book. So I i am super excited to talk about all of this. One of the things in education, and if if any of us think back to our favorite teacher, why were they our favorite teacher?
00:22:36
Speaker
Was it the subject that they were teaching or was it the way that they engaged us? Right? It's the engagement piece. So if I walk into work and no one ever says hello, no one ever says good morning, no one ever asks about my day, nothing. There's no engagement of any kind, right?
00:22:58
Speaker
That can work for some people. Some people are fine with that. But if I work in an environment where I'm walking past other people, and especially myself, like I'm a social person, that's going to feel like I'm not welcome. as i'm right that's That's not going to feel great. Yeah. So there i don't think I think one of the biggest things that people honestly, where they go wrong is they overthink it.
00:23:26
Speaker
Okay, teachers, so when I was teaching in public school, do you know how happy we were to have a jean day? to wear jeans to work. To wear jeans.
00:23:38
Speaker
That's what we wanted. We wanted less days where we had to dress up. Do you know how it incredibly excited my staff is to wear open-toed shoes in the office? Okay. in the office now it's not in the classrooms you're not allowed to do that because they have to protect their toes and i've told all of the girls i'm like i might have to have you sign a waiver for each tootsie so that i don't get in trouble that your toes aren't covered right but either way they're like awesome we can't wear shorts up front because we do tours but we can have open toes that we're so excited
00:24:15
Speaker
I think people overthink it and they're sitting at their desk and they're like, oh, should I buy them ah a knife set for Christmas or should I give everybody a big bonus or blah, blah, blah. Why don't you just walk around and say, hey, how's it going?
00:24:30
Speaker
How are you? what What's your favorite color? yeah You know? Yeah. Just even the little things because I can tell you that if somebody walks in with a Diet Coke for me, I'm thrilled. Yeah.
00:24:42
Speaker
We had a principal one time that would walk around um every once in a while with a cart and it had it was a coffee cart. And then he realized every time he came around, i never took anything.
00:24:55
Speaker
i don't I don't drink coffee. It's like one thing. I just don't – I love the smell. i don't like the way it tastes. Same. And so he started – Packing the cart with pops and he'd give out a coffee or a Coke or a Diet Coke or Spray. And I'm like, thank you. Now he was already doing something kind, right?
00:25:14
Speaker
But he adjusted it because he realized that he wasn't hitting every staff member. Yeah. Yeah. Did it cost him a few extra bucks? Yeah, but it was minimal and it just threw it into a routine he already did. If you're already walking to the copier, make it a point to stop by two desks on your way and say hello.
00:25:36
Speaker
yeah it's It's really not as big as we think it is. And there's a lot of things that we do that are zero dollars. Yeah. That our staff love. It's just people want to be loved and they want to be a part of a community. That's it.
00:25:50
Speaker
Point blank, that is a basic need for everyone. And so if you make them feel loved and part of a community, you're in. You're done.
Closing Remarks and Future Work
00:25:58
Speaker
yeah it That's all you need. yeah Yeah. No, I think... if you If you suck at that, like my sister always says, she's like, i don't...
00:26:06
Speaker
That's not my thing, okay? My sister doesn't like to be hugged, any of that, okay? This is perfect for her because this is like affection digital style, okay?
00:26:19
Speaker
I don't have to, and it's great for me because I can send sweet notes and be like, oh my gosh, I'm so proud of you. I'm so sorry. couldn't be there because I'm getting busier, so I'm not getting to see my people as often. But for her, it masks that she doesn't like that. Okay.
00:26:35
Speaker
It's perfect. it It works for everybody because it leans into whoever you are. Right? Yeah. No, i I love that. And I think one of the things is, you know, we we think about whether it is engaging your team or work-life balance or or creating that workplace happiness. It's really about everyone is individual. You know, and I said, like, ah I don't like to lump the generations. Everyone wants and needs different things. And it's really about finding out what the heck it is to allow that, allow that to happen. And, you know, adding on to that, you know, having those boundaries, like, you know, well, yes, you can't have off every Friday, but you know what, when you've taken that PTO day, we're going to leave you alone unless something is on fire. um Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:19
Speaker
so I have threatened to fire people who call. i I'm like, if you call so-and-so while they're on their vacation, I'll fire you. I think that's fair. they're like, what? And I'm like, because when you're on vacation, I'm going to say the exact same thing.
00:27:33
Speaker
And these girls get nervous when, you know, like the state comes for a visit. And that's fair. But it's not the end of the world. It's not. And to be honest, if you're doing something that gets you shut down, you should have been shut down.
00:27:47
Speaker
You should be. should don't call someone on their vacation to say we're getting shut down. You're still going to be shut down tomorrow. that's what happens, yeah. So let them go on vacation and leave them alone.
00:28:00
Speaker
Yeah. Because Lord knows that they're going to need it. and make Yeah. i oh Yeah. No, all that's doing is just creating more stress and frustration. And again, really undermining the idea of creating this happy collaborative workspace. And so being a place where you have work satisfaction, it's just a bunch of like worker dread because, you know, for a lot of these, you know, a lot of these kinds of roles, when you are working with folks who actually have to physically show up to work and physically deal with clients, customers, small children, you know, you need to be able to to pull that away. You can't be on all the time. And especially if they are hourly employees, dear God, let them be on that beach. They are not getting paid for this. Let them drink that pina colada in peace.
00:28:46
Speaker
For the love. Yeah. For the love. Leave them be. Leave them be. And here's the thing is, I know that I would be bothered if I were with my family trying, yeah you know, now granted, I i probably wouldn't be bothered, bothered to be honest, because i own a small business and I knew what it would be like. And I knew that I would get phone calls and I knew how that would go.
00:29:12
Speaker
Right. But as I've gotten older and I'm not green anymore because that does, it comes with time. At first you want to be available to everybody all of the time. I'm committed. i want you to see I'm committed. I'm here a hundred percent.
00:29:26
Speaker
And then, you know, you you're in it and you've shown that and you're like, okay, maybe people don't need to call me at 10 o'clock at night. Yeah. Maybe that, maybe i could not answer that call. maybe i can And so as you balance those things out, i think that you realize that everybody deserves that space, that time, and it doesn't matter what part of you know the hive you live in yeah It's what makes it all run smoothly.
00:30:04
Speaker
And each, each person adds to that. And if we tick off Susie while she's on her vacation, then when you go on vacation, she's going to make sure to be sick.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah. No. And I, you know what? I wouldn't blame her. wouldn't blame her. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So this has been great. Um, so as we wrap things up, um,
00:30:30
Speaker
First of all, super mega thank you. ah Such a pleasure to have you as our first guest. So if people want to follow up with you to learn more about Ruthann, to learn more about your schools, to learn more about your consulting, where do you want us to send them?
00:30:46
Speaker
Where should they go? Where can we find more Ruthann? I don't know yet. I mean, we're going to. um So the book, it the book comes out next year. okay It was titled 100 Friends, but I'll be really honest with you. Nobody needs 100 friends. And this is now currently called Infinite Friends. OK. Because it's about opening the door to the possibility of infinite friends. Right. That anyone could be your friend.
00:31:14
Speaker
um And it's about finding self-love through grace of yourself and others. And so that comes out next year. You should start seeing things on social media. and um i'm love it. But this has been so much fun. and Yeah. And this group, everything. i you know couldn't be paired with people who are more you know in tune with what I hope the world transitions into.
00:31:41
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, Ruthann, I appreciate you so much. ah Thank you again for being here. um And for everyone who is watching or listening, um please be sure to check out the descriptions, the show notes, et cetera, because I will toss some links in there for all of the great places to um keep up with Ruthann. So, you know, you can... um learn more about ah all the awesomeness she's doing and maybe, you know, keep an eye out for when that book comes out. um Otherwise, though, this has been Mustard Hub Voices from the Front Lines. Thank you again for kicking it through our first episode. Like, subscribe, follow, share, comment, do all the good stuff. ah And looking forward to talking to next time.