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Human Diversity
18 Plays1 year ago
Diversity is a fact. Every time two human beings come together, there is diversity. This includes when a coach meets their clients and engages in a coaching partnership. What is the impact of diversity concepts in coaching, and what must coaches keep in mind as we strive to embrace the context and the humanity of our clients?
#diversity #DEIB #coaching #inclusion #coachingskills #context #mindset #ICF #beingHuman
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Transcript
Introduction to the Prime Space Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Prime Space, a Prime Coaching Academy podcast with your host, Elias Scultori.
00:00:13
Speaker
So hello, my friends.
Guest Introduction: Nick Dugan and Diversity in Coaching
00:00:15
Speaker
This is another fun episode that I so enjoy because there is a guest.
00:00:23
Speaker
And today our guest is Nick Dugan.
00:00:27
Speaker
Hello, Nick.
00:00:28
Speaker
Hello, Elias.
00:00:29
Speaker
So good to be here.
00:00:31
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So Nick, it's truly a joy for me to talk with you and bring some of your experience and wisdom and beauty and knowledge to our listeners.
00:00:45
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Thank you so much for spending these few minutes here with us.
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Nick, if you don't know Nick, Nick is a leadership and executive coach.
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And Nick has been developing people in organizations for the past 20 years.
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More specifically, Nick has a decade of experience in leading learning and development and diversity, equity, and inclusion teams.
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And so we are going to talk specifically about diversity and diversity in coaching.
00:01:21
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But I also have to share that
00:01:23
Speaker
One of the things that Nick and I have in common is our sci-fi Star Trek passion.
Shared Interests and Future Discussions
00:01:30
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And we even had to cut our conversation short here because prior to the recording, we were already diving into Star Trek world.
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But that would be another episode right now.
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Yeah, the lessons of Star Trek for coaching.
00:01:42
Speaker
That would be a great episode.
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Speaker
We'll plan on that.
00:01:45
Speaker
That's a great idea.
00:01:46
Speaker
Let's have that.
00:01:47
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But Nick, let's talk about diversity.
Diversity as a Core Competency in Coaching
00:01:49
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Yeah.
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And diversity, diversity and coaching.
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Speaker
What's the connection there?
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Yeah.
00:01:56
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So diversity is obviously a buzzword right now, certainly in the, in the media, but it's not new.
00:02:03
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It's been something that we have been looking at and thinking about, uh, for a long time.
00:02:08
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And in terms of where it shows up in coaching, it's right there in the competencies, right?
00:02:13
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If you look for diversity related words, there are things like, uh, identity and understanding context in particular, it shows up in the, uh,
00:02:23
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the the competency around trust building trust and and safety there's one that says seeking to understand the client within their context which may include their identity environment experiences values and beliefs another one is demonstrating respect for the client's identity perception style language and then adapting our coaching to the client so to me it's really a
00:02:45
Speaker
core piece of coaching is being able to understand the diverse backgrounds, identities, experiences of all of humanity and understanding how that's showing up for each individual client, being able to step outside of our own assumptions and our own experience to be able to meet the client where they're at, which is really part of the core of what coaching is in general and understanding how
00:03:07
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the principles of diversity in terms of experience and background and identity is really the mechanism, one of the mechanisms by which we do that as coaches.
00:03:16
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Oh, yes.
00:03:17
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Thank you, thank you, thank you for that.
00:03:19
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You know, and this is one of the things that I was thinking when we were planning for this podcast.
00:03:26
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You started by saying that, you know, diversity became this buzzword and everybody's talking about DEI and DEI initiatives and everything.
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And then people, there is so much of an emphasis about the labels and all of this, the fad of this particular topic.
00:03:46
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However, I always say like when there are two people in the room, there is diversity.
00:03:51
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We have been dealing with diversity since the dawn of time.
00:03:56
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We humans are diverse and therefore as coaches, we need to be mindful of the diversity of this person, this individual that is right in front of us.
00:04:08
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Yeah, there's a saying, I don't know who originally said it, so I can't credit it, but it's diversity as a fact.
Adapting Coaching to Diverse Identities and Systemic Issues
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Inclusion is the action that you take in order to cultivate diversity and help people feel a sense of belonging.
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I love that.
00:04:21
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So what should coaches have in mind, keep in mind around diversity as they are developing their process with their clients?
00:04:33
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Yeah, to me, it really starts with that word identity, right?
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Being conscious that identity is a factor in people's experiences.
00:04:41
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And I think it starts with acknowledging and paying attention to differences.
00:04:46
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The good news is that there's a lot out there, right?
00:04:49
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The diversity, equity, and inclusion is not a new field.
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It may be a newer term to some, but it is something I was on a call on Monday with a group of
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very experienced folks that have been doing what we now call DEI work for 40, 50 years.
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So it's been something that has been happening throughout the corporate world and in different parts of the business world in general for a long time.
00:05:14
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So I think it starts with acknowledging and paying attention to differences.
00:05:18
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I think we as coaches have a responsibility to continue to learn about different cultures and identities, certainly of the people that are showing up in our community.
00:05:27
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as clients for us, but in general, just understanding more about people from different backgrounds so that we can be more prepared to adapt our coaching.
00:05:36
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I think it's especially important to understand systemic and societal issues.
00:05:41
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Coaching is very much an individual, is usually an individual process.
00:05:47
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Certainly we have group coaching and team coaching, but ultimately,
00:05:50
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The overall philosophy of coaching, as I understand it, is helping people to connect to what's true within themselves and the trust that our client, as you always say, our clients are perfect, right?
00:06:01
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They have their answers within them.
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And I think that is really helpful.
00:06:07
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And it's important to recognize that we all exist.
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As someone recently said, we exist in the context of all that comes before us.
00:06:16
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And that includes understanding systemic and societal issues, right?
00:06:20
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It is different to be a person of color in the United States than it is to be a white person.
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Since we're on audio, I will mention I identify as white.
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I'm a cisgender man.
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I identify as gay.
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The issues and privileges and experiences that I have are going to be very different.
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walking around town than a black man going around town.
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And that's what I think a lot of the media is showing and bringing attention to is that our identities very much impact our experiences.
00:06:48
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And not just when we're walking around town, when we're at work, when we're thinking about our careers.
00:06:52
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So as coaches, understanding that it's not just about individual experience, it's about these societal and systemic issues related to our identities is very, very important in understanding that context that is mentioned in the competencies.
00:07:07
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Broadening our vision and understanding of the context of the other client.
Acknowledging and Learning from Diverse Experiences
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One thing that you're speaking there and it's coming up for me very clearly, this aspect, it's so easy for us to believe that our context or our experience is
00:07:25
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Our cultural experience, the way we see the world is the way the world is and not realize that this other person, this other individual that we have may have a completely different experience, perhaps even have look like the same as we do.
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but they may have a completely different experience.
00:07:48
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And then when we don't look alike or there are specific distinctions between my experience and the other person's experience, how important it is for us to
00:08:01
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open our minds and stretch and be curious about what the other context is happening in the other individual.
00:08:12
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So thank you for bringing this up for us.
00:08:17
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Let me ask you a question.
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So what are the little things that a coach can do to demonstrate and to create this environment of
00:08:28
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safety for the other person to really come and open their hearts without concern of acceptance or not?
00:08:38
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Yeah, that's such a great question.
00:08:40
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I think it really starts with things that we as coaches do long before we're in front of a client.
00:08:47
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I think it starts with acknowledging our own identities and where that positions us in relation to others.
00:08:53
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I will say, you know, I feel comfortable talking about diversity on this podcast because of my corporate experience.
00:08:59
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I did lead a diversity, equity and inclusion team, and I don't consider myself an expert on diversity in coaching.
00:09:06
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There are plenty of people.
00:09:07
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thought leaders that do think about that.
00:09:10
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And I have a particular perspective as a white man that you aren't going to hear from a woman of color or a trans person.
00:09:17
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And so I think I always like to say that in terms of you want to make sure that you're hearing from all different people and in particular, learning about the experiences of a community from that community.
00:09:30
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So I certainly can't speak on the behalf of
00:09:34
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Asian or Latino or black or trans folks.
00:09:38
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And so it's really important to seek out those those sources.
00:09:40
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Right.
00:09:41
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And finding there are plenty of people who talk openly about their experiences from different identity communities on LinkedIn, for example.
00:09:48
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I found that to be a tremendous place where people are very generous with sharing their experiences.
00:09:54
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learning, reading books, finding information about different cultures, right?
00:09:59
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So that you can understand what are some of the general differences.
00:10:01
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Now, it's important not to group everyone together and say all women are this way or all non-binary people are that way.
00:10:10
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But there are general things that you can learn.
00:10:13
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There's a great book called The Culture Map by Aaron Meyer that focuses more on global culture.
00:10:18
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But it's about how do you adapt if you're American working with a German client or if you're working in an East Asian culture, there are differences that you can adapt to.
00:10:29
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And so there is great research and information out there.
00:10:32
Speaker
So I think part of it is doing that pre-work, right?
00:10:35
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So that you are coming...
00:10:37
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not expecting.
00:10:39
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There's something that I've heard from people from marginalized backgrounds is that they get very frustrated when people from a dominant background expect them to do the educating.
00:10:50
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Especially if you identify as someone from a majority group, so men or white folks,
00:10:56
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Don't expect someone, a person of color or women to be responsible for educating you.
00:11:02
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It's our responsibility to do that.
00:11:04
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Now, as coaches, of course, we always want to learn how it's showing up for that particular person.
00:11:09
Speaker
So I think to your point about simple things we can do, include it in your intake, right?
00:11:14
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It can be very simple, right?
00:11:16
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I ask a question, something like...
00:11:18
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I know that identity plays a big role in our experiences.
00:11:21
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I wanted to create a space for you to share what, if anything, around your identity, your background, your experiences might show up in our coaching relationship.
00:11:31
Speaker
I sometimes I don't have it right in front of me, so I can't read it verbatim, but I also acknowledge that we have different identities and our assumptions may be different.
00:11:39
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So I, and I, I never forced them to, to share, but I always say, I want to create this space.
00:11:44
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If you're, if there's something you want to share.
00:11:47
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And it's interesting because there are some, you know, visible differences that I expect.
00:11:52
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And that sometimes come up there.
00:11:54
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Sometimes I expect someone to say something about an identity and it's not really relevant for them.
00:11:58
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And then sometimes there are differences that you don't see.
00:12:01
Speaker
like neurodivergence or mental health.
00:12:04
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Or one woman that I spoke to said being a working mom was for her, which now that she said it, of course, that's a huge impact in terms of how we show up and how your career unfolds.
00:12:14
Speaker
But I hadn't had that in mind when I asked the question.
00:12:16
Speaker
So being able to just surface that, you know, I think,
00:12:21
Speaker
There are some small things that you can do to demonstrate that you are working on being open.
00:12:28
Speaker
For example, I think sharing your pronouns, if you're comfortable doing so, I think that's something that's
00:12:33
Speaker
not, you know, the best thing for that is to be optional because there are a lot of reasons why people might not want to share their pronouns.
00:12:39
Speaker
But the reason for people, why you may see them sharing them on Zoom or in their email is to signal that we understand that gender is not binary and some people may use different pronouns.
00:12:50
Speaker
And so if people see that, it is a signal that you are being thoughtful about the role that identity plays.
00:12:59
Speaker
And then I think just...
Embracing Diversity in Coaching Practice
00:13:03
Speaker
Continuing the conversation, right?
00:13:04
Speaker
I mean, I'm making sure that you're exposed to learning around diversity so that it's not just a one-time thing.
00:13:10
Speaker
You read the culture map and you put your pronouns in your bio and that's it.
00:13:14
Speaker
Finding people on LinkedIn or Instagram that are talking about issues around diversity so that you can start to understand on a longer-term basis, what are the issues and questions and challenges facing these communities?
00:13:26
Speaker
So that when you do have a client that identifies as a member of that community, while you are, of course,
00:13:31
Speaker
open to and tuning into what, how it shows up for them being aware that, you know, if, if a black person was killed by police in the last week, they may not be in a place where they're really excited to talk about their career.
00:13:46
Speaker
Right.
00:13:46
Speaker
So I, I think, I mean, that's a really tragic example.
00:13:48
Speaker
That's unfortunately very prevalent in the United States, but having that awareness of what's impacting people based on their identity is, is really important to be aware of.
00:13:57
Speaker
Thank you for that description there and all of these points.
00:14:01
Speaker
I appreciate this.
00:14:03
Speaker
This aspect that, you know, diversity affects all of us.
00:14:09
Speaker
It's not just a United States issue.
00:14:12
Speaker
It's not just an issue about certain groups.
00:14:16
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It's not just about their problem.
00:14:19
Speaker
It's all of us.
00:14:20
Speaker
We are all involved regardless if we are human being.
00:14:24
Speaker
diversity is a fact.
00:14:25
Speaker
So I appreciate that you said that.
00:14:27
Speaker
And for us as coaches to be mindful of that so that we can embrace, like you just mentioned, like this client saying, I am a working mom.
00:14:37
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Like this is, you know, something that we may take for granted, but it is something special about that particular individual.
00:14:45
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How can I stretch myself around that?
00:14:47
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And the importance for us as coaches to keep our minds open, keep being committed to
00:14:53
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to learning and developing ourselves so that we can create a space that is of trust, of comfort, of ease for our clients to really bring themselves fully to the coaching conversation.
00:15:08
Speaker
Nick, thank
Resources and Conclusion
00:15:09
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you so much.
00:15:09
Speaker
How can people connect with you?
00:15:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:14
Speaker
So my website is deeperwork.com, all one word.
00:15:18
Speaker
And I am on LinkedIn quite a bit.
00:15:19
Speaker
So people search for Nick Duggan, N-I-C-K-D-U-G-G-A-N.
00:15:24
Speaker
I'm on LinkedIn.
00:15:24
Speaker
Feel free to find me there.
00:15:26
Speaker
I do also want to just share quickly a couple resources for folks that are interested beyond my own work.
00:15:32
Speaker
One is I...
00:15:36
Speaker
group called Fifth Domain Coaching that's led by Sukari Pinnick-Fitz and Amber Mays.
00:15:41
Speaker
They've really done a great job of coming up with an extensive model and body of knowledge around incorporating DEI into coaching.
00:15:49
Speaker
So if you're interested in taking this further, they have some great resources.
00:15:53
Speaker
And then there's an organization called ACTO, A-C-T-O, which stands for the Association for Coaches and Coach Training Organizations, that has made a really strong commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion in the coaching profession.
00:16:05
Speaker
So those are two ways to learn more and get involved and continue to expand your awareness in this space.
00:16:12
Speaker
Oh, thank you.
00:16:12
Speaker
Thank you for those resources.
00:16:14
Speaker
I'm a member of ACTO and they do a fantastic job.
00:16:18
Speaker
I so appreciate the effort and the stress on diversity that they are bringing.
00:16:23
Speaker
So thank you so much for this.
00:16:25
Speaker
Nick, I am sure that we are going to have another podcast another time.
00:16:29
Speaker
Maybe a Star Trek podcast.
00:16:30
Speaker
Yes.
00:16:32
Speaker
Great.
00:16:33
Speaker
Thank you so much for this and for being here with us, everyone.
00:16:37
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening.
00:16:39
Speaker
Don't forget to subscribe and to share this podcast, this episode with others that you believe will benefit from this conversation with Nick.
00:16:49
Speaker
And take good care, everyone.
00:16:51
Speaker
And I will see you next time.