Transcript
Speaker: And welcome back. We're back in the room and I'm glad that you can join us. well in ah Join me, really, because it's just me. This is the last time it'll be just me. This is the last in the ADHDville Summer Series. um Next week, it will be Paul and myself. So let's go to the place where the distractions, the landmarks and the detours on the main roads. Welcome to ADHDville.
Speaker: I've just realised I don't have a trunk. Too late now. I'm just going to have to go through this episode dry like sandpaper.
Speaker: So hopefully my voice will hold out.
Speaker: How are you doing? My name my name is Martin West and I have was officially diagnosed with the combined ADHD poo-poo platter in 2013. And i strongly suspect I'm more autistic as well.
Speaker: And this week we are going to be talking about the very interesting subject of are you uncomfortable using people's names?
Speaker: Now this is a very interesting topic. But before we get into that, um I have news. i have news. This is, I've said that Paul is coming back next week and he is.
Speaker: The next episode will be me and Paul, but the news is it will be Paul's last episode. um He has decided to not continue doing ADHD-ville after hundred and forty odd episodes,
Speaker: and i'm not surprised So next week will be his farewell goodbye episode. um So I hope you'll be there. It'll just be Paul and I. and We'll sit down and we'll just chat and talk about do podcast and the old times. And then that will close out season one of ADHDville.
Speaker: What happens after that? Well, don't worry. ADHDville will carry on. um So I hope hope that eases any of your anxiety.
Speaker: All right. Well, let us talk about this interesting topic. Are you uncomfortable with people's names? Now, do you find it strangely uncomfortable to use someone's name when you're talking directly to them?
Speaker: I kind of do. I kind of feel like when I use someone's name, when they're in front of me, I feel like there's a lot of added, a little ball of anxiety kind of comes up around it. And I feel uncomfortable saying the name. is it It's not that I don't know their name.
Speaker: it's just kind of going, it's that thing of saying, hi, how's it going? There's a difference between that and hi, Sarah, how's it going? I kind of feel like when I, when I plop in someone's name, feel, feel my anxiety is like rising up now.
Speaker: Because somehow it kind of feels weirdly intimate. kind of feels slightly odd, artificial, embarrassing, little cringy, a little wrong. So you kind of, I kind of tend to avoid it.
Speaker: Which is weird. Now this thing apparently has a name. It's called lexinomia.
Speaker: it's kind of weird because it has the word Alex in it. I'm not quite sure, is that Greek or something? um it just like some i mean, someone's name anyway it is So a lexinomia is a term researchers have used for for the difficulty or the discomfort using other people's names in direct interactions.
Speaker: So, you know, it's it's not that you've forgotten their name. You're not necessarily afraid of ru mean, you you you might be a little bit afraid of getting it wrong. um you just You just don't want to address the person with the name. Right.
Speaker: And yeah, you might be thinking, oh, hang on a second. Do other people do this? Is this a thing? it Is this a thing that you do as well?
Speaker: Is this just another way that ah we find ourselves that that we aren't unique after after all? I mean, did you realize it just now or is this something that you've always kind of felt?
Speaker: You know, can you can you comfortably say the word you know the the name of your partner or your kids or your parents or your close friends or your boss? or you know um When you use their name, does the discomfort you feel change?
Speaker: or depending on who whose name you're using using um now is it easier to use a nickname
Speaker: you know or like a pet name some little kind of fun way of saying it you know it's i've i find it interesting because um In a way, the longer I've known someone like Paul, for example, i because i've yeah I've known him so long, i almost feel like I don't have too much of a problem saying the name.
Speaker: if I've just met someone and I say their name which um I may do because you know one of the things is like I forget names so easily someone could say hey my name's John what's you know what's your name oh you know and then I'm panicking about saying my own name um and then or So therefore, I don't really take in what their name was and I i don't rim ri rim remember. So one of the ways I try and overcome that is by saying their name.
Speaker: like that's the If they say, oh, hi, I'm John, i will try and say, oh, hello, John, my name is, yeah so that I can at least stand a chance of actually remembering them. um But a stranger...
Speaker: I guess, you that's the most, that's that's the most, well, that is quite a large amount of anxiety just saying their name to someone that I've just met because, you know what, maybe I said their name, maybe I misheard it.
Speaker: Maybe, you know, so it's kind of, there's a lot of risk in just saying their name back to to back to them. Yeah.
Speaker: But it's also, i think the the worst ones for me are the names of people that I don't use very often. I don't see them very often, but see them on a regularish basis. Maybe they're a co-worker, maybe they're a friend ah or a family member.
Speaker: um And you know their name and you know it quite well. And then, but for some reason saying it is, comes with a lot of baggage
Speaker: so as i said you know like why would saying a name feel intimate it's a It's almost like when when you say someone's name, you're like, instead of being like, you know, three foot apart, you're now like three inches apart. that's like that's what That's what it feels like. It feels like you you're suddenly like face to face with that with that person.
Speaker: You know, so, you know, ah if I was just going to ask for a file, say, I know I could so so could turn around to the person, to my co-worker next to me and say, oh, can you can you pass me that file?
Speaker: That's very different to kind of like saying, oh, ah ah Michelle, can you pass me that that file? Yeah. you know that That second one has more social anxiety. It directs attention. It establishes some sort of connection. It creates intimacy. It can establish authority just by asking. you know It can signal affection or or kind kind confrontation. It's like there's a lot of baggage that goes on in there. I mean, you know when I think about my own name,
Speaker: and someone says that name to me, depending on how someone says it, it can mean, you know, like like I can read the subtext of how someone says my name to mean, like you, i love you, listen to me, you're you're in in trouble, in trouble,
Speaker: um you know It can be, you know or yeah yeah i've I've just done something stupid. It can mean a lot of different things just by how someone says my name.
Speaker: I think neurodivergent brains are very good at kind of like, they will just take a lot of context around someone saying your name and then just that add a lot to it.
Speaker: So thought about this thing, which is like, if you can imagine concentric circles, you know, there's on the outside, there's easy, then there's slightly uncomfortable. And then in the inside, there's absolutely fucking not. So, and then place people in them.
Speaker: So, you know, someone that I might in know, a long pool, a long time, like, like, like Paul, he feels like slightly easy. um And even saying my wife's name out loud feels uncomfortable.
Speaker: And then if I meet someone who I've met before and I've talked to before, but we don't have a a very intimate relationship, it's just kind of like more, you know, friends, someone I know, but saying their name may feel like... ah Absolutely not. Especially like a doctor or someone who I perceive as being an authority over me, like a doctor.
Speaker: it' it's It feels very, I would much rather say thank you, doctor, rather than like Dr. Kim or whatever. That feels like o i'm i'm I'm overstepping some sort of boundary here.
Speaker: um So, yeah. Where would you put people in that, in those three circles? Easy, slightly uncomfortable. Absolutely not. You might discover something unexpected. Perhaps strangers names are easier than close friends or the complete opposite.
Speaker: Now, there's been some research in alexionomia that suggests that relationship and emotional context matter, which makes this more interesting than simply some people don't like names.
Speaker: You know, it's like my relationship with that person and the context that I am in and how, you know, how those names are being said.
Speaker: Now, the question is, this is ADHD, is this an ADHD thing? So this is more, for me, this is more of a, you know, like, ah this isn't an ADHD thing.
Speaker: It's not part of the ADHD DSM ah ah blah, blah, blahs. This is this is this feels like it's kind of it's something that feels in the neurodivergent territory, um but it's not necessarily owned by any one thing.
Speaker: um But there are definitely overlaps. So possible over overlapping factors include social anxiety, inhibition, emotional intensity, intimacy, self-consciousness, fear of making mistakes, autism, ah differences in social communication and difficulties around names than them themselves.
Speaker: So I think a good thing is to kind of ask is whether there is actual evidence connecting alexinomia specifically with with ADHD. and My suspicion is that there is there is where um know you know, where this episode becomes especially useful, I think, is because, you know, internet content has a tendency to kind of turn, you know, some ADHD people report this and ADHD, you know, this is an ADHD, this is an ADHD trait and these aren't remotely the same claim, you know,
Speaker: Is it actually lexanomia or something else? You know, um so for your example, I forget names. That is not a lexanomia.
Speaker: I'm afraid I'll pronounce it incorrectly. You know, that's probably something different. um Using someone's name feels too personal. Well, that feels like we're getting into the alexionomia territory.
Speaker: um I know your name perfectly well. I just cannot bring myself to call you it. Now, that's interesting.
Speaker: that's That's the interesting one, I feel like. I just cannot bring myself to use your name in front of you. So, you know, there's another interesting twist to this, which is during conflict, when we're in a feeling like we're where're we're in a in a fight um does a lexanomia disappear when you're angry?
Speaker: So some people who rarely use names, and maybe you can relate to this, um they suddenly remember and use your name emotionally you know during an emotionally charged combat conversation.
Speaker: So there is a difference between saying, that's not what I said, to no Paul, That is not what I said. You you might find that actually suddenly using someone's name and and those feelings that you have behind it kind of gives it more power.
Speaker: You know, that name suddenly has a job. It creates emphasis and you know or or distance from the person. But you might find, if you think about it,
Speaker: that you that perhaps someone's name is even harder to just say when they're emotionally close to them.
Speaker: So what I mean by that is like, you know, names and childhood. So
Speaker: it's worth exploring cautiously I think that, you know, ah weren't you know and when we when when we think back to our childhoods and parents and people in or all authority, were names used when you were being told, told off?
Speaker: You know, if they said your full name, your first and your last name, Martin West, come here. I knew, oh boy, i was in trouble.
Speaker: If they use my middle name, Martin Paul West, come here. That was it. i I hope that I have my affairs in order because because that would be my last day on planet Earth.
Speaker: and i did Did your family actually address each other by name or did did you use nicknames? you know were the well Did you have affectionate names in your family? We didn't have affectionate names. No one no one called each other anything other than our name. you know and And in fact, my my brother, will i if I remember correctly,
Speaker: Correctly, wasn't called Andy. it was called Andrew. The full name. Not a nice little cuter condensed contraction. No, it was like the full name.
Speaker: Ah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's. it's one of those It's one of those things i find interesting. Now, might know just this is one of the reasons why I hate my own name. I hate my first name.
Speaker: I don't like it. I've never liked it and it's And I suspect that quite a lot of neurodivergent people don't either. I can remember I put out post maybe a year or two ago where I said, I don't like my name. And I've got a massive response.
Speaker: So many people don't like their first name, they their they given name. And that's... I feel has a lot to do with when you're a child and when there was conflict and when you were getting when you were in trouble, your name was used and you just ended up associating your name with being in in in trouble. If someone if if someone shouted out your name, do you think
Speaker: Oh, good. Someone wants to talk to me. Someone might need my help. Or do you think, oh, fuck, what have I done now?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: ah So.
Speaker: Here's a question. maybe an experiment perhaps this would be in in interesting how often do you actually use people's names when speaking directly to them um
Speaker: is this i'm just i'm just trying to something think actually i've also lost my my place on the but my but my little notes
Speaker: Right, here we go. b listen day wrote I've written this one out as listener ig xx experiment. How often do you actually use people's names when speaking directly to them?
Speaker: yeah not And I don't mean talking ah about them. I mean, you're in front of them and you're talking directly to them.
Speaker: So rather than just kind of saying, oh, thanks, you say, oh, thanks, Sarah.
Speaker: And when you do that, notice how you feel inside. Nothing. Okay, fine.
Speaker: A slight cringe. Strong cringe. Very uncomfortable. Have a go.
Speaker: yeah Just consciously think about it. And then constantly consciously think how you feel inside when when you use someone's name.
Speaker: um I think it's it's kind of interesting um to to do that, to just to kind of like, just to note how feel inside how we feel about it.
Speaker: And also, I guess, let me know in the in the comments if you did this um and or you know were even in how you how you feel about it. And then you know ask yourself why it felt different, if it felt different from one person to someone else.
Speaker: you know Did I feel more comfortable talking to this person saying their name or that person? Why was that? you know, um because in, you know, I'm not saying that you should force yourself to start naming everyone, but, you know, think it's just a good exercise to kind of notice that our brains, that we don't, you something that we don't normally think about, but just kind of like just to notice, you know, what is going on. So,
Speaker: so the bigger question, I guess. You know, and this is this is this is the kind of weird little fun stuff that I like. So on the surface, some people don't like saying names. Fine, who cares?
Speaker: But underneath there's something more interesting. There's something much bigger. You know, names are one of the earliest and most powerful social signals that we learn. We recognize our own name really early.
Speaker: Hearing your name immediately grabs your your your attention. I mean, you know, um if so, people called called Ashley,
Speaker: And I feel I feel sorry for them because it sounds so much like actually. So if there's conversations going around and someone says, oh, yeah, well, well, actually, I think this, you know, your brain is going to think that they've just said your name.
Speaker: <unk> Ashley. What? What?
Speaker: that Do you have one of those names that just sounds like another word, another common word? um
Speaker: So, you know, when we think about saying another person's name, we acknowledge them directly. So so so maybe the interesting question isn't,
Speaker: Why don't I use people's names? Maybe it's more like, why does saying someone's name sometimes feel like I'm doing something to the relationship between us?
Speaker: Almost like kind of giving it a tag. Like, are we creating intimacy? We're drawing attention. We're showing affection, maybe. We're establish your establishing or authority. We are risking rejection by saying it, you know, and we're making ourselves socially visible.
Speaker: And that's a lot of, him as I've said, that's a lot of emotional baggage in one little word. So have a think about it. Do you use people's names? Whose names are easy? Whose names are uncomfortable? Are there people that you've known for years or names that you've never actually out you know actually are there any people's names are there any people that you know you know their names and you've never said it out loud hey Jim you've never said these words it's always been something else um
Speaker: Yeah, does that ever happen? Are there any people like like that? Yeah, but I feel like if you're if you're if you're emotionally feeling some of that stuff that that we've been talking about for the last half an hour, if you feel some of that in your gut, know, you are not the only one Apparently, as I have found out, researchers and researchers have even have given this name, this phenomena, a name. It's called alexinomia.
Speaker: um And obviously i don't feel comfortable saying alexinomia. there we go. Fascinating, fascinating subject. I do kind of like...
Speaker: names I think there's there's a lot of fun stuff in there. Right, well, I am going to quickly read out a comment from two...
Speaker: two episodes ago where we were Amy and I were chit chatting about stuff and Alexandra as always wrote an amazing comment in our in our YouTube section so go and you know if you want to see my face and read her comments they're all over there and she says let's pull this over onto this screen here we go she said in one one of one of the things that she said was I was listening to a doctor and he was saying that ADHD isn't the lack of the ability to focus or to stay still but a difficulty with regulation and I can relate to that it's definitely an imbalance issue for me she goes on to say if I focus too much on one thing
Speaker: I totally miss the other parts of myself that need attention. The problem with ADHD, and my belief, is that we can keep up with the routines and then the routines get overwhelming.
Speaker: So it's just a cycle. she She finishes with with this nice thought. is I need the break because otherwise i get even worse long term, except if I'm doing my special interest. Then please do not talk to me and bring me sandwiches.
Speaker: you know And I actually like, so thank you, alex Alexandra, for that. and do And I would say that I actually like the idea that ADHD might be less about attention and more about regulation because you can be incredibly good at regulating one thing, but then but only by completely abandoning everything else you know I always think of it as like there used to be this stage act
Speaker: which was the spinning the spinning plates so you would have like a stick and and you'd put a plate on the top and you'd spin it and then you put a whole bunch of sticks on the stage and you'd spin plates on top of them and then by the time you'd done the fourth or the fifth the first plate was starting to wobble so you run over to that one and keep that one spinning And then so you had to kind of like try and keep all the plates spinning all at once. And and it and it kind of feels like we can we can just hyper focus on the one plate and then everything else kind of crashes.
Speaker: behind us and that's kind of like that feels quite like adhd to me all right well thank you for hanging around and being my uh my company during this this episode um and remember so this was the last of the adhd summer series thank you for uh bearing with me while we kind of, while while I ah went through this summer period. And next week, just a reminder, it is Paul's last episode.
Speaker: um so please join me and Paul for one last ADHD world together. um It's just going to it's just going be a nice, pleasant, fun little time. So,
Speaker: That is next week's episode. so that just leaves me to hit the outro button up there and say that ADHD rule is delivered fresh every Tuesday to all providers of fine podcasts. Please subscribe to the pod and rate us most, uh, namely.
Speaker: Yeah, now we do. And feel free to correspond at will in the comments. But wait, there's more. If you wish to see our beautiful, beautiful faces, then sally forth to the TikToks and the YouTubes.
Speaker: You can also pick up a quill and email us at ADHDwill at gmail.com. But in the meantime, fucking kind to yourself. There.
