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Stay Sparked #33 - "Relationship Transitions"
6 Plays2 years ago
Is it possible to transition peacefully from lovers to friends? What is the difference between "Breaking Up" and "Uncoupling?" What relationship practices can help ease the pain of separating?
BOOK MENTIONED:
"Attached: Are you Anxious, Avoidant or Secure? How the science of adult attachment can help you find – and keep – love" by Amir Levine & Rachel Heller
HOSTS
BETSY FINKLEHOO is a healer of massage therapy, CranioSacral and Dharma Coaching. She is an 8 year burner and has spent the last several years seeped in the personal development world, cultivating her passion for transformation and growth. Her recent project, The Power Affirmation Journal and virtual group empowers women to cultivate self awareness and healthy habits so they can live in greater freedom, mind body and spirit.
http://poweraffirmation.com/
Click here to get a FREE affirmation for Stay Sparked Listeners!
HALCYON is full-time Love Ambassador. He is the founder of Hug Nation YouTube channel and daily zoom gratitude circles. He is co-founder of the Pink Heart Burning Man camp and the 1st Saturdays project for people experiencing homelessness. In his free time he coaches individuals on how to live joyfully and authentically. His other podcast is "Hard on the 80's."
http://JohnStyn.com
JANUS REDMOON is a 10-time Burner, and has spent the last several years as an advocate for psychedelic medicine research and treatment. He is the founder and CEO of NuWorld Nutritionals, a nutritional supplement company providing mushroom-based, all-natural products to improve and maintain health for both body and mind. (Use code "SPARKED" for 10% off)
http://www.nuworldnutritionals.com
MASSIVE Thank you to Dub Sutra for their beautiful opening music. Check out their incredible music catalogue online.
https://dubsutra.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Stay Sparked Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Stay Sparked.
00:00:04
Speaker
On this show, we explore how to stay inspired in the modern world through the most profound lessons from Burning Man, relationships, entrepreneurship, psychedelics, spirituality, travel, and more.
00:00:17
Speaker
On today's episode, we talked about the ends of relationships.
00:00:20
Speaker
We talk about the difference between uncoupling and breaking up.
00:00:24
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And how do we navigate these end of relationships with compassion, grace, and applying the wisdom that we currently have?
00:00:32
Speaker
Enjoy the episode.
Meet the Hosts: Betsy, Halcyon, and Yannis
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Stay Sparked.
00:00:37
Speaker
We are three longtime friends who have been inspiring each other and lighting each other up for the last decade or more.
00:00:44
Speaker
And we are here to share some of these conversations aimed to spread sparks into your lives.
00:00:49
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening.
00:00:51
Speaker
If you have been enjoying these conversations, we so appreciate you leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts so that way we can keep spreading the sparks.
00:01:00
Speaker
I'm Betsy.
00:01:01
Speaker
I'm Halcyon.
00:01:03
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And I am Yannis.
00:01:05
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I am the founder and creator of the Power Affirmation Project, teaching life skills for sustainable happiness.
00:01:12
Speaker
I am the host of the Hug Nation YouTube channel and Daily Gratitude Circles.
00:01:16
Speaker
I am the founder of a nutritional supplement company called New World Nutritionals and I'm going to be a dad soon.
00:01:24
Speaker
So that's exciting.
00:01:27
Speaker
Definitely a big role and full-time job.
00:01:30
Speaker
Yes, indeed.
00:01:31
Speaker
Yes, indeed.
00:01:33
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No tapping out of that one.
Gratitude Sharing
00:01:36
Speaker
So we always love starting with gratitude.
00:01:39
Speaker
So love to spark us off with some gratitude over here.
00:01:43
Speaker
In this moment, I am really grateful for classical music.
00:01:48
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I got to go to a really beautiful concert this weekend in La Jolla.
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Speaker
And it was mostly strings and clarinet and piano.
00:01:57
Speaker
And it was so different than the weekend before I went to like large bass, Burning Man sound system experience.
00:02:05
Speaker
And then I got to experience this classical music show and it was so peaceful and so beautiful.
00:02:11
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And I felt so calm and serene afterwards.
00:02:15
Speaker
So my gratitude is for classical music.
00:02:19
Speaker
Nice.
00:02:20
Speaker
That sounds fun to me.
00:02:22
Speaker
My gratitude is for a phrase that my partner and I have been using with each other, which is, you got the part.
00:02:30
Speaker
Meaning like you already got the job, you just relax.
00:02:33
Speaker
I had a period of a few days of kind of being in a funk and getting a little down on myself.
00:02:38
Speaker
And I have a tendency to spiral into judgment and then go to a place of unworthiness.
00:02:43
Speaker
And just the phrase, you got the part, let me be vulnerable and feel like it was okay to be in that place, which then made it easier for me to receive support from her.
00:02:56
Speaker
So, so grateful that I got the part.
00:03:00
Speaker
Nice.
00:03:01
Speaker
That's fun.
00:03:03
Speaker
So my gratitude today, also partner related, is that, yes, as mentioned, got a baby on the way.
00:03:14
Speaker
And my partner is...
00:03:17
Speaker
has been on it as far as like scheduling all the stuff and knowing what needs to happen to happen and who we got to talk to and what needs to be scheduled, what classes we got to take, so on and so forth.
00:03:28
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She is like on top of all of it.
00:03:31
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And it's allowing me to kind of keep my bandwidth free for the stuff that it needs to be free for.
00:03:37
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So, I mean, I could definitely be on it a little more, but the fact that she is handling it is just kind of like,
00:03:44
Speaker
All right.
00:03:45
Speaker
Good.
00:03:46
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Good.
00:03:46
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It definitely provides a small bit of relaxation in my world.
00:03:51
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So, so I'm definitely feeling gratitude for these days.
00:03:57
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Oh, that's awesome.
00:03:58
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Big shout out to Shakti Shannon, your lady love.
00:04:02
Speaker
That's right.
00:04:03
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Shout outs to her.
00:04:04
Speaker
Amazing.
00:04:06
Speaker
Well, I love that you guys both used your partners for your gratitude today because the spark of our conversation is kind of in that realm.
Exploring Relationship Transitions
00:04:15
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And so we all know that love, romance, dating, being in partnership, marriage, divorce is a huge part of our world.
00:04:24
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And you weren't always with these partners.
00:04:27
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you were with other people beforehand that led you to where you are now.
00:04:31
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We've all been through a journey.
00:04:33
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And so we wanted to share some conversations around transitions in relationships and in particular, moving from being together to not together.
00:04:44
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So uncoupling versus breaking up the processes that we've been in, the things that we've learned, also potentially transitioning from
00:04:53
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friends to lovers or lovers to friends.
00:04:57
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So love to start with an inquiry with whoever wants to share first on your journey of getting to be here where you are and love now.
00:05:07
Speaker
How do you feel about the process of uncoupling or breaking up?
00:05:14
Speaker
I'm going to jump in with a quick inquiry because it's like, how do we feel about uncoupling or breaking up?
00:05:23
Speaker
Betsy, what's the difference?
00:05:26
Speaker
Oh, well, that's a really, really great clarification point.
00:05:29
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So my perspective on coupling versus breaking up is there's a grace that comes with uncoupling.
00:05:37
Speaker
It sounds even just sounds gentler, right?
00:05:39
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If you see two beings and it's just like, let's just gently unwind them.
00:05:44
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There's this like grace that comes with it.
00:05:47
Speaker
Breaking up is hard and it's abrupt and it's
00:05:50
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It's, you know, intense.
00:05:52
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And, you know, that's, I think, the biggest difference when it's amicable versus not so amicable.
00:06:00
Speaker
okay that's that's that's a quality definition thank you thank you i just wanted to if in case anybody was initially having that same curiosity after hearing you know this or that so uh i just thought that was a that was valid so so now halcyon i see the floor to you well i'm lucky in that every single uh ending of relationship i've ever had has been harmonious and never any disagreements or fighting whatsoever
00:06:25
Speaker
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
00:06:26
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:06:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:27
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Sorry.
00:06:27
Speaker
That's not exactly true.
00:06:28
Speaker
That's not exactly true.
00:06:30
Speaker
No, I'm looking for my, I'm looking for my buzzer.
00:06:33
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Clearly if anyone follows you on Facebook and watches all your daily lives, I think they know it's not true.
00:06:40
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No, but, but, but I, I, I do feel that I am now in a loving, harmonious relationship with all of my former partners, which is something that I, I didn't used to be able to say, but,
00:06:53
Speaker
And I actually used to have an identity.
00:06:55
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I felt that I was someone who did not get along with my exes.
00:06:59
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And so I had a history of breaking up.
00:07:02
Speaker
And it was not something I was proud of.
00:07:05
Speaker
It was something I felt like it was a deficit.
00:07:08
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And so as I have grown, I feel like the relationship transitions have become more healthy, which has facilitated the ability to be in continued relationship.
00:07:22
Speaker
with, with those people.
00:07:24
Speaker
Um, yeah, but that being said that, that, you know, this is something I'm certainly, you know, in a learning phase and some of my, uh, the people that I'm closest to now, the transitions were rough.
00:07:37
Speaker
They were, they were not harmonious transitions.
00:07:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:43
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I wish, uh, I wish I could say that.
00:07:45
Speaker
I wish I could say that all my, that I'm in a harmonious relationship with all of them.
00:07:49
Speaker
Um,
00:07:50
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former partners um i am not i'm probably batting about 50 50 about 500 on that so um and the ones that i am friends with it's it's great it's it's fine it's casual it's cool like we see each other we like like each other's stuff on social media and you know we have dude check in on you know on occasion like oh you got married that's awesome so so we're yeah so the ones we're friends with are great
00:08:15
Speaker
I will say that I try and I don't want to say it's all them.
00:08:19
Speaker
It's not me as far as like the ones that are not harmonious.
00:08:24
Speaker
But what I have learned, what I learned a long time ago, what I've seen kind of play out over the course of some of my former relationships is when, and I've been on both ends of this as well, is that when somebody is bound and determined to cast you in a role for themselves, there is nothing you can do to shake that off.
00:08:43
Speaker
There's nothing you can do to not be that person for them other than to just check out of the engagement.
00:08:51
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And
00:08:53
Speaker
I had an opportunity to kind of reconnect with a former lover, just on a friendship level, because it wasn't like we just really went our separate ways.
00:09:02
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And that was kind of it.
00:09:04
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But I valued them as a person, as a love, the unconditional love part of that.
00:09:11
Speaker
But then when checking into, because we happened to find ourselves vacationing in the same place at the same time, there was like a check-in to be like, hey, so what are you up to?
00:09:19
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And they were like,
00:09:20
Speaker
we need to clear some stuff up because dah, dah, dah, dah.
00:09:23
Speaker
It's like, Oh, this again.
00:09:25
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Okay.
00:09:26
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And it was just me just, okay, we're still there.
00:09:29
Speaker
That's fine.
00:09:31
Speaker
And honoring, you know,
00:09:33
Speaker
there's, there's something to be said for honoring what we evoke from people and acknowledging what we evoke from people.
00:09:38
Speaker
And so it's like, this person is awesome, but for whatever reason, when we get together or our energies start to mingle, it's rare.
00:09:45
Speaker
So be like, okay, it's, you know, it's not them.
00:09:48
Speaker
It's me.
00:09:48
Speaker
It's not me.
00:09:49
Speaker
It's them.
00:09:49
Speaker
It's a little bit of both.
00:09:50
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So, um, so yeah, so yeah, long story short, I wish I was a little bit better with that.
00:09:55
Speaker
What about you guys?
00:09:57
Speaker
Dynamics are a thing.
00:09:58
Speaker
Yep.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yep.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yep.
00:10:00
Speaker
Um, yeah, I have had a unique journey of uncoupling.
00:10:05
Speaker
Um, when I was in high school, I had a high school sweetheart and we were together for about two and a half years.
00:10:12
Speaker
And at the, towards the end of our relationship, we were still very much in love, but I was a younger than him and he was,
00:10:21
Speaker
Still in high school and I was in college and we made a conscious choice to separate our relationship, not based on a fight or because we didn't love each other, but because of the situation where it was like, you know, a little long distance and also it was just...
00:10:37
Speaker
We just weren't able to see each other.
00:10:39
Speaker
And so that was the first time I ever experienced this really beautiful unwinding of a relationship that was mutual.
00:10:46
Speaker
And then over a series of relationships, I've had been long-term relationships for a large part of my life.
00:10:55
Speaker
I've had some really incredible experiences of finding harmonious conversations with my beloveds to be able to part ways.
00:11:04
Speaker
It was not always easy.
00:11:07
Speaker
Of course, because there's so much love and there is process.
00:11:11
Speaker
But I would say that it's been a huge part of my journey of love is learning how to use the bridge and communication and resources to be able to find the most harmonious unwinding.
00:11:27
Speaker
That being said, I also have had some pretty gnarly ones too.
00:11:31
Speaker
In college at one time, me and this guy, we were dating for a while and we just got so mad at each other that we started doing mean things to each other.
00:11:40
Speaker
Like silly, silly things, like kind of like
00:11:43
Speaker
you know he would come over and like pour snow on on the front of my door so i couldn't open the door and i would like you know throw eggs at his house or whatever these like silly things and we were just little kids you know now we message each other and we say hi to each other and we laugh about it but that was definitely a breakup we're like no i'm gonna do something mean to you no i'm gonna be something mean to you no i don't like you anymore
00:12:10
Speaker
And so it was kind of fun and playful, but also like...
00:12:16
Speaker
kind of ridiculous.
00:12:19
Speaker
I prefer the more loving, kind, like, let's talk about this, let's move through this, the process.
00:12:27
Speaker
Because, you know, I feel like we all have something for each other.
00:12:31
Speaker
You know, when we enter into a relationship with somebody, because we have these, we have reflections for one another, we have something to share with each other to support our growth and our evolution.
00:12:42
Speaker
You know, I feel like relationships are like the highest form of a spiritual practice because they provide a mirror for us to grow and to learn and to evolve.
00:12:52
Speaker
And in the uncoupling is oftentimes where some of the biggest insights can come from.
00:12:59
Speaker
What is the shadow here?
00:13:00
Speaker
What do I need to look at with myself?
00:13:03
Speaker
What am I learning from this person?
00:13:06
Speaker
And what are the contracts that we had that are coming to a completion?
00:13:11
Speaker
So those are kind of considerations I like to be with.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:15
Speaker
I feel the, you know, that's to paraphrase that one quote.
00:13:19
Speaker
It's like, if you ever get to feeling like you've reached some sort of level of enlightenment, go spend a week with your family.
00:13:27
Speaker
And I think that can also be applied to relationship.
00:13:29
Speaker
Like go, go, go, go travel with your partner for a week or go to Burning Man or go to Burning Man.
00:13:35
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:13:36
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:13:37
Speaker
There's like levels to this for sure.
00:13:38
Speaker
So it'll make or break.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:41
Speaker
And I think it's important to, and I want to talk with you guys also about like the tools that we have acquired to assist us with the process of like kind of, you know, navigating a conscious of coupling as opposed to like just getting smashed on the rocks of a relationship.
00:13:59
Speaker
So.
00:14:00
Speaker
I'm curious with Halcyon, like you said, you've got a, you've, you've, you're on quality, high quality terms with a lot of your, your, your exes, your former, your former partners.
00:14:08
Speaker
What tools have you been able to apply to, to that to kind of help, help create that?
00:14:14
Speaker
I mean, I think the most significant is time and wisdom and aging amongst all parties.
00:14:22
Speaker
If I look back, I, I,
00:14:25
Speaker
I don't think until very recently was I ever really interested in building a life with another person.
00:14:34
Speaker
I was interested in spending time with another person and having a romantic partner and having an adventure partner, but I was never interested in building a life.
00:14:42
Speaker
And for a long time, I thought that that was evidence of my strength and evidence of my
00:14:50
Speaker
my spiritual evolution that i was a lone wolf i didn't need anyone i just you know was able to to spend time with someone and i felt like i communicated that with words to my partners but and then i i would sometimes even resent them for wanting more and so that was often a sticking point you know in in what ended a relationship is when my partner would be like what are we are we building something and i would be very clear we are not
00:15:15
Speaker
know we are choosing each day to be together and i thought that was a victory that was like hey that's awesome we're choosing each day to be together and it took a lot of of growth and actually and seeing the suffering in my partners to recognize that's not a spiritual holy union you know that is not how you build the kind of spiritual growth you're talking about in relationship to me what i witnessed is that that there needs to be a foundation of
00:15:42
Speaker
safety and security, especially I think the feminine, not necessarily women, but the feminine in us really needs a sense of stability and security to feel safe and blossom.
00:15:52
Speaker
And I was so resistant to that.
00:15:55
Speaker
I felt like that was impinging upon me and my freedom.
00:15:59
Speaker
And so that was a, that became the reason for almost all of my ending relationships because I wasn't ready.
00:16:07
Speaker
I didn't want that.
00:16:08
Speaker
And they got to a point where
00:16:10
Speaker
I eventually want to build something with somebody.
00:16:13
Speaker
And so I think what has made it to a point where we can now be friends and connecting is recognizing that we were not the person for each other.
00:16:23
Speaker
And so we can now go back and say, okay, within the things we did share together, there was lots of beautiful lessons.
00:16:29
Speaker
And now we are safe to find what we want in other people.
00:16:32
Speaker
Hmm.
Understanding Attachment Styles
00:16:35
Speaker
Wow, so beautiful.
00:16:37
Speaker
That was some wisdom, pink wisdom coming through.
00:16:41
Speaker
Thank you for that.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's really huge.
00:16:44
Speaker
You know, that claiming of freedom and needing to be able to like claim your independence, but also then recognize within yourself now that that was sort of a resistance to building something and how that's related to safety.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's really powerful.
00:17:00
Speaker
I got a huge, you know, awareness, studying just the surface level of attachment theory and realizing that what I considered to be evidence of my strength and healthy mental place was actually, you know, avoidant attachment.
00:17:17
Speaker
And as I started to look into it, these symptoms of deep trauma was manifesting in my independence
00:17:24
Speaker
And the more I looked into that, it was like, oh my gosh, this is not an area where I can be so confident that I'm right.
00:17:34
Speaker
Because now that I can see the studies and see it in other relationships and in books and reading, like this is a place of growth for me.
00:17:41
Speaker
And it was humbling in a beautiful way that allowed me to kind of move on from that.
00:17:48
Speaker
And you really see something beautiful there around learning and going into the resources that are available, right?
00:17:57
Speaker
Maybe in the younger years that we've all had and being in relationships, we didn't study relationships.
00:18:02
Speaker
You know, it's not taught to us in school.
00:18:04
Speaker
One of the primary things that we all aspire to experience in this life is to be in partnership, to be with somebody, but it's not, there's not a class, right?
00:18:13
Speaker
Right.
00:18:13
Speaker
But now here we are.
00:18:14
Speaker
We have so many resources.
00:18:16
Speaker
You mentioned a book called Attached.
00:18:19
Speaker
So we can put that on the show notes.
00:18:20
Speaker
Attachment theories, right?
00:18:21
Speaker
Is that the one?
00:18:24
Speaker
It's one of the main ones.
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:26
Speaker
So to be able to have access to this kind of information, I feel like is a key component to be able to navigate the process, whether or not you're going to stay with somebody or shift out of it, to be able to recognize that our core values are in alignment, our attachment styles are harmonious or not.
00:18:45
Speaker
You know, we're both growing in the same direction.
00:18:47
Speaker
Our intentions are aligned, you know, to be able to have those tools,
00:18:53
Speaker
And that's like the question that you posed, Yanis, is like, what are the tools that we use to be able to move through this journey of being in love in relationship and out of relationship?
00:19:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:06
Speaker
Yeah, and it comes to that awareness and knowledge of self, for sure, and to kind of speak to what Hal Sam was talking about.
Men's Fear of Relationship Entanglement
00:19:14
Speaker
I think a lot of us, and to really put a microscope on what Hal Sam was referring to, is when it comes to a lot of men's approach, or let's say the masculine's approach to relationship, is that there is a fear of entanglement.
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:34
Speaker
because in my in my experience that the idea of like you know come to kind of the growth of my own kind of just you know awareness and awakening about just all things is that when it comes to relationship this relationship is going to end at some point it might end when we're both 100 years old uh it might end tomorrow uh for various reasons my partner might wake up tomorrow be like i'm done or i might wake up and do do that
00:20:02
Speaker
One of us gets hit by a bus, kidnapped by aliens, whatever.
00:20:05
Speaker
This relationship is going to end at some point.
00:20:07
Speaker
So when it ends, it's like, oh, okay, this is how it's ending.
00:20:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:12
Speaker
And, you know, I may, I'll feel sad about that.
00:20:15
Speaker
I will grieve, I will mourn, and I will get over it.
00:20:20
Speaker
as humans do.
00:20:21
Speaker
So there's really, that kind of, for me, has taken the anxiety out of relationships.
00:20:28
Speaker
Like, oh, okay, this was always going to end.
00:20:30
Speaker
This is all temporary.
00:20:31
Speaker
So kind of having that awareness kind of allows me to kind of breathe in a relationship.
00:20:38
Speaker
And as far as the entanglement goes, I think a lot of us
00:20:42
Speaker
as men, we look into this, this idea, like, okay, we're going to build a life with this person.
00:20:48
Speaker
Otherwise, what are we doing?
00:20:50
Speaker
And there's a, there's a lie.
00:20:51
Speaker
I definitely have my own process with that, where it's like, okay, so what, we're going to like move in together and we're going to, what, we're going to like, what, have kids.
00:20:59
Speaker
We're going to get married.
00:21:00
Speaker
We're going to buy a house together.
00:21:01
Speaker
We're going to do an offense.
00:21:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:05
Speaker
We're going to install the fence and nine years down the road,
00:21:10
Speaker
I'm going to wake up and be like, this is not my beautiful house.
00:21:13
Speaker
This is not my beautiful wife.
00:21:14
Speaker
And be like, okay, what have I done?
00:21:17
Speaker
And there's, I think a lot of men, they look ahead of that.
00:21:22
Speaker
They're like, I'm going to avoid that.
00:21:24
Speaker
How about we just enjoy the moment?
00:21:26
Speaker
How about we just enjoy being together?
00:21:29
Speaker
And it's really, it's difficult to find somebody who's on that same page for the same reasons and not coming from a fear-based perspective.
00:21:36
Speaker
I think a lot of women,
00:21:40
Speaker
effeminate it's kind of wired to be like no let's let's create a nest let's do this otherwise what are we doing after like a couple years and i think a lot of they are
00:21:51
Speaker
You know, and they kind of short circuit things because they just they fear the future entanglement.
00:21:57
Speaker
And it's like, oh, so it's a lot easier to separate now than it is, you know, after marriage, house, kids, this, any other thing, because then now you're now you're now you're in there.
00:22:08
Speaker
And it's like, it's going to be a lot.
00:22:10
Speaker
You know, there's a there's a perceived lack of fear.
00:22:13
Speaker
freedom where we're losing something we're not as opposed to like what we're gaining we see what we don't see what we're gaining from that we see losing from that we don't want to lose that so we don't even want to go too far down that down that route i'm sure this is true for women as well um in some in some some cases um but you know kind of for me it always comes back to the awareness of of self and like you know what what am i looking to create this life what am i looking to to do here is this person aligned with what i'm looking to
00:22:42
Speaker
to with the sort of life I'm looking to live.
00:22:45
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:22:46
Speaker
So beautiful.
00:22:47
Speaker
I relate to that so much because alignment is everything.
00:22:50
Speaker
And I actually went through that, you know, where it was that devotion to freedom and sovereignty, but also being in love and finding love and being with this person and navigating how to just stay in the moment as much as possible.
00:23:10
Speaker
And we did that for quite some time.
00:23:12
Speaker
And then we got to a point where we were like,
00:23:15
Speaker
wait, where are we going?
00:23:17
Speaker
We were like on this ship, you know, and we're like, we're like cruising.
00:23:22
Speaker
We're going to check out this island over there and that island over there.
00:23:24
Speaker
And this is so beautiful.
00:23:26
Speaker
But then after a while, we're like, where do you want to steer this ship?
00:23:30
Speaker
You know, and we both got to have some hard conversations around
00:23:36
Speaker
Do we want to keep building something together?
00:23:39
Speaker
Because you're inevitably building something.
00:23:41
Speaker
Like you said, you know, you're resisting the building of a life together, but after a while, you just inevitably are building something.
00:23:48
Speaker
And so to have those check-ins, I feel like is a really important part of the process, another tool.
00:23:56
Speaker
There's a word for it.
00:23:57
Speaker
And one of the relationship trainings is radars, having radars.
00:24:02
Speaker
So whether it's weekly or monthly, um,
00:24:05
Speaker
in partnership to check in.
00:24:06
Speaker
How are we feeling?
00:24:09
Speaker
How are you feeling about our relationship?
00:24:12
Speaker
Is there anything that we need to clear?
00:24:14
Speaker
Do we need to tend to our
00:24:15
Speaker
the garden of our relationship?
00:24:17
Speaker
Is there something that doesn't feel good for you or something that really feels good?
00:24:22
Speaker
And I feel like having those check-ins can really support the process because there might be something in there that can get cleared and then it might keep coming up, keep coming up, keep coming up.
00:24:33
Speaker
And it's like, well, actually this is really becoming a wedge between us.
00:24:36
Speaker
We need to address this.
00:24:37
Speaker
and tune in to see if we are indeed aligned.
00:24:40
Speaker
And that's what happened in this particular situation I was in, where there was this one piece that neither of us were willing to compromise on.
00:24:48
Speaker
And we worked through it multiple times, and it just kept coming back.
00:24:52
Speaker
And we both got to see the mirror in the other person and see where our core values were not a match.
00:24:59
Speaker
And so then we were able to get to a place where we returned to friendship.
00:25:06
Speaker
And releasing the romantic part of our relationship, which of course was painful.
00:25:13
Speaker
We love each other so much and love to be able to like have that fantasy life where everything is just so perfect and beautiful.
00:25:22
Speaker
But it was became very clear that we just were not ready to build something together.
00:25:26
Speaker
And so we were able to find our way through it with some conversations and some breath.
00:25:34
Speaker
And spaciousness and patience.
00:25:36
Speaker
And I'm so grateful because now we can still be in each other's lives as allies and we can come back to the fond memories of each other and not the resentments and frustrations.
00:25:46
Speaker
And why couldn't he be more like that?
00:25:48
Speaker
And, you know, or these like, you know, negative thoughts about each other.
00:25:52
Speaker
That's good.
00:25:53
Speaker
I think you touched on this idea of radars or check-ins.
00:25:59
Speaker
And there's something you mentioned that sounds simple, but is so not easy, which is letting someone know if things aren't okay, you know, or bringing up something that could be a problem.
00:26:10
Speaker
I mean, I think that is one of the big pieces of, can you get to a place of harmonious,
00:26:18
Speaker
disconnection and finality is if along the way you are having the hard conversations, if you are being transparent along the way.
00:26:27
Speaker
I think I've had a tendency in the past to seek harmony as opposed to truth.
00:26:34
Speaker
So there might be a deep down concern that I know that if I bring this up,
00:26:39
Speaker
this is going to have some short term tension, if not long term tension.
00:26:43
Speaker
So, you know, it's not that big a deal.
00:26:45
Speaker
It's not that big a deal.
00:26:46
Speaker
And then maybe it comes up when I get angry and get pushed to my limit and I'm tired.
00:26:50
Speaker
And then the thing comes up, you know, but if it can be a topic discussed in calm times with a radar or whatever, then it's so difficult for me, at least, I think for a lot of people to bring to light something that is not a
00:27:05
Speaker
what you want to hear.
00:27:06
Speaker
And it was something I learned in poly world that is the best advice for any relationship is get comfortable saying things that the other person doesn't want to hear.
00:27:15
Speaker
And that's in relationship, in business, in anything, you know, and if because if you can trust that the other person will have a momentary flare up of emotion and get to the other side of it, you will build trust.
00:27:28
Speaker
you will trust the other person is able to hear the thing and that you will able to trust each other's honesty.
00:27:33
Speaker
You can trust each other's yeses and nos.
The Role of Honesty and Communication in Relationships
00:27:37
Speaker
But you have to risk that momentary, that triggering feeling of this isn't what I want.
00:27:44
Speaker
This isn't, this is scary.
00:27:45
Speaker
This is triggering some old feeling of abandonment or whatever.
00:27:48
Speaker
And I've in the past been guilty of like, I don't want to deal with that.
00:27:51
Speaker
So I think it's fine.
00:27:52
Speaker
I think it's fine.
00:27:53
Speaker
And then what the big problem is, then when you eventually get to the breaking point, not only are you having the grief of ending a relationship, there's a feeling of
00:28:03
Speaker
dishonesty and betrayal that's added to there because like wait how long have you been thinking this how long have you been what and then the feeling of like how long you did you not even ever love me at all like those those are things that are really painful and those happen when you have this thread of it's not lying but it is it's not like like intentional transparency that is really difficult but so important
00:28:28
Speaker
unspoken yeah absolutely so beautiful he said i'd love to mention a book actually that really helped me a lot it's called radical honesty and that is a really powerful resource to be able to learn how to communicate because it comes back to responsibility
00:28:46
Speaker
you know, what you're speaking to is being able to take responsibility for our feelings, our needs, and being able to know how to communicate them in a way that our partner or our friend, even, you know, people in our lives can receive it, you know, like learning how to use nonviolent communication, for example, you know, we're not pointing our fingers, you never do such and such.
00:29:09
Speaker
That's not a way to be able to actually share our truth, that is projections and blame and, you
00:29:15
Speaker
You know, so learning again, coming back to learning, how do we communicate with the most, um,
00:29:21
Speaker
just centered responsibility to be able to communicate in a way that can clear and can eradicate some of the tension and the density that can get built up.
00:29:34
Speaker
You know, my, my previous partner and I, um, he always would say grains of sand.
00:29:38
Speaker
It's like grains of sand, right?
00:29:40
Speaker
If those grains of sand don't get addressed, then it just starts to build up, build up, build up.
00:29:44
Speaker
And then eventually the scale gets tipped and
00:29:47
Speaker
And it's just, or like, there's the other analogy that that pile of sand, you just feel buried underneath it, right?
00:29:55
Speaker
Because we were in relationship for many years and it took us a long time to get to counseling.
00:30:01
Speaker
We were, and by the time we got to the counseling, there was just so much to unpack, so many layers of unspoken things.
00:30:07
Speaker
And it was very difficult.
00:30:09
Speaker
So the radars, the check-ins, the tools, I think are such a valuable resource to be able to
00:30:15
Speaker
Yep.
00:30:15
Speaker
Keep coming back to harmonizing the relationship.
00:30:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:24
Speaker
And what you're speaking to, Bessie, is something I wanted to mention.
00:30:27
Speaker
All the people I know, you guys may have heard this as well, but all the couples I've known who, let's say, didn't make it as a couple and who tried couples counseling,
00:30:39
Speaker
almost all of them are like if they could do one thing differently they would have started counseling earlier 100 because and the best time also goes what you're speaking to helsine it's ours like having these conversations the best time to have these conversations the best time to go seek couples you know coaching or couples um therapy is when everything is awesome when there's no when there's no like emotion like it's time that
00:31:05
Speaker
time to have the radar and that's something that anybody can look up like right just look up radar multi-amory and you'll find like the framework for having these conversations um having these conversations when there's no emotion let's say tied to it when things are great that's the perfect time to have them because then you could just come you can just like talk about it and there's no like yeah there's no everything's awesome
00:31:26
Speaker
one thing I would like to see a little bit more of in our relationship is this.
00:31:29
Speaker
And the other person is going to be in a much better place to receive that.
00:31:32
Speaker
They might have a moment like, oh, well, how long have you been holding on to this?
00:31:35
Speaker
I'm not holding on at all.
00:31:37
Speaker
It's just come up for me recently.
00:31:39
Speaker
Thought I'd bring it up to you because everything's awesome.
00:31:41
Speaker
And I want to just kind of address this thing now because X, Y, and Z. And so having these conversations before
00:31:49
Speaker
These topics get loaded with any sort of resentment or feelings.
00:31:55
Speaker
God forbid we should have feelings in these conversations.
00:31:58
Speaker
But yeah, do that early.
00:32:01
Speaker
And another thing to do also when you're – and this is a super analytical, maybe over analytical, but I find there's some value to it.
00:32:11
Speaker
To kind of assess our relationship is, okay, so what –
00:32:16
Speaker
You know what, if I'm not, if I'm feeling uncertain about a relationship, which is, which is going to happen, certainly.
00:32:23
Speaker
But I feel like we can be fair, we can fairly assess our relationship and, you know, not looking for perfection, not expecting perfection from our partners.
00:32:32
Speaker
But there, there comes a time where we really need to like, analyze our relationship with a critical eye and be like, okay, how, what's going on in this relationship?
00:32:41
Speaker
How happy am I?
00:32:42
Speaker
in this relationship how happy should i be in this relationship and something that i've applied um that other people have found some some value in as well is okay what percentage of of this relationship am i stoked about like how off how often am i stoked to be in about this relationship so
00:32:59
Speaker
what you know as far as percentage of time goes okay there's no relationship that's going to be 100 awesome I have zero negative feelings about that relationship does not exist so scrap that but what about a 90 of the time 10 of the time I'm like uh possible still kind of a high bar so I'm like okay so if I'm only if I'm only like brand 10 of the time I can live with that anybody should be able to live with that 80 20
00:33:24
Speaker
That's pretty good.
00:33:25
Speaker
I can, I can, I can roll with that because again, it's like no one's, no one's expecting
Assessing Relationship Satisfaction
00:33:29
Speaker
for perfection.
00:33:29
Speaker
I'm sure I'm a jerk 20% of the time.
00:33:32
Speaker
If the person can, um, person can do with that.
00:33:35
Speaker
My personally, my bottom line, my bottom bar is like 70, 30.
00:33:40
Speaker
So I gotta be like, I gotta feel pretty good about this relationship.
00:33:43
Speaker
70% of the time, 30% of the time is like, okay, there's just life might happen.
00:33:46
Speaker
So on and so forth, 60, 40, 40,
00:33:49
Speaker
okay, what are we doing here?
00:33:51
Speaker
Because if I'm only feeling good about this relationship, just better than half the time, that's a problem.
00:33:58
Speaker
We have to, we gotta, we gotta work some stuff out.
00:34:00
Speaker
So we gotta, we gotta, we gotta talk 60, 40, frankly is not good enough for me.
00:34:05
Speaker
So, and there's some people that are like, okay, that's fine.
00:34:08
Speaker
But 60, 40 is like, okay, there's a lot of tolerance going on here.
00:34:12
Speaker
There's a lot of like, hmm,
00:34:13
Speaker
I'm just going to let that slide.
00:34:15
Speaker
It's like these grains of sand coming in.
00:34:17
Speaker
Like 40% of the time, I'm collecting these grains of sand, these pennies in my pocket.
00:34:21
Speaker
That's going to add up for a while.
00:34:23
Speaker
So sitting back, analyzing our relationships, being like, okay, so not expecting perfection, but how much good stuff
00:34:31
Speaker
What's the minimum amount of good stuff I need in a relationship to feel good about continuing this relationship?
00:34:37
Speaker
As people's percentage might be might be different, but I think it's good to have this assessment when you're feeling good about things.
00:34:43
Speaker
And then, you know, as far as deciding, OK, we need to talk.
00:34:47
Speaker
We need to get some stuff addressed and need to critically be like, OK, is this relationship going to give me what I want?
00:34:53
Speaker
Am I going to be able to give this person what they want the majority of the time?
00:34:57
Speaker
so powerful yes well that's really powerful and i have something coming up around it because something i personally experienced and witnessed and other people is that um can get to 50 50 or less like 40 60 and then a feeling of not knowing how to shift so how do we transition you know i was just um
00:35:22
Speaker
talking with a friend who's been married for many many years and they recently got divorced and it was probably about five years that they were in that like 50 50 or less of happiness you know and i see a lot of people that go through that get stuck in that kind of place where it's like how do i actually transition out of this relationship so i'd love to hear from either of you just how how do you
00:35:49
Speaker
make that shift?
00:35:50
Speaker
How do you actually move from that deep relationship into friends when there is just so many layers of complexity?
00:36:00
Speaker
I'm totally picturing someone's partner picking up a spreadsheet and being like, what is this about 65% here?
00:36:08
Speaker
Like, yeah, I got to talk to you about this.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:11
Speaker
The pie chart.
00:36:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:12
Speaker
About that.
00:36:14
Speaker
I know some couples that are very like, you know, in the spreadsheets that probably would do really well using like pie chart and everything about their relationship, but a lot of people probably wouldn't.
00:36:24
Speaker
So like, what's the reality of being able to have those hard conversations?
00:36:28
Speaker
You know, where's that moment where you like rip the bandaid off?
00:36:32
Speaker
I mean, I know I've, I've had a few, but it's like, yeah.
00:36:35
Speaker
Any wisdom either of you got on that?
00:36:39
Speaker
I mean, I've found that, you know, it's good.
00:36:41
Speaker
That's it.
00:36:41
Speaker
That, that,
00:36:43
Speaker
I've found that I've had difficulty finding mutual agreements that this is the right time.
00:36:50
Speaker
And that's, it often takes one person to say enough.
00:36:56
Speaker
I had a moment where I had like a, I was at Burning Man one time and I had almost like a voice tell me, say, you're out of integrity.
00:37:05
Speaker
You got to make things right.
00:37:06
Speaker
And where I knew that my partner would not
00:37:09
Speaker
would stay with me indefinitely, even though I wasn't what they wanted.
00:37:12
Speaker
You know, they wanted me to commit to them and I wasn't willing, but I didn't want something else.
00:37:18
Speaker
So I was just willing to just keep going.
00:37:19
Speaker
And I just had this massive hit, like you're out of integrity, make it right.
00:37:24
Speaker
And so as soon as I got onto the road and had cell phone service, I said, look, we have to talk.
00:37:30
Speaker
But I don't know.
00:37:34
Speaker
I mean, like I've also had,
00:37:37
Speaker
in therapy sessions, you know, having a therapist say, you know, are you, are you gotta be a fuck yes to this.
00:37:42
Speaker
And as I, as I stood in that, I'm like, oh, I'm definitely not a fuck yes to this.
00:37:46
Speaker
And then that was like the click.
00:37:48
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:48
Speaker
I know that this has to happen.
00:37:50
Speaker
And it had to be when we were discussing together, we couldn't come to that agreement together, but it had to be like, I had to have the clarity myself and then just make a, make a decision.
00:38:01
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:38:04
Speaker
Well, there is something inherently unfair about relationships because it takes two people to decide that we're going to get together and we're going to be in a relationship.
00:38:14
Speaker
It takes one person to decide that this relationship is over and it is over.
00:38:21
Speaker
So that's something that if we find ourselves on the receiving end of that or the delivering end of that.
00:38:27
Speaker
understanding like if we're looking to like, okay, this isn't working for me and I just feel it's best to transition out of this.
00:38:36
Speaker
Understanding that there is just something inherently like, eh, about that, to be on the receiving end of that, I think that allows us to move into that level of conversation with a little bit of grace, like you're mentioning, Betsy, and just compassion and being like, you know, accepting how this person is
00:38:57
Speaker
while also realizing like, okay, you're fine.
00:38:59
Speaker
There's actually nothing wrong with you.
00:39:01
Speaker
This connection is no longer working for me.
00:39:05
Speaker
I no longer like what's the direction that we're going in.
00:39:09
Speaker
I feel like we are going to
00:39:12
Speaker
It's, you know, we are better, we are going to be better served, you know, finding a way to maybe not go all the way into it's not you, it's me.
00:39:21
Speaker
But there's some validity to that, being like, no, this is not working for me.
00:39:25
Speaker
And the other person doesn't have to like it, but as long as we just kind of hold ourselves with,
00:39:30
Speaker
uh, grace and compassion for delivering that.
00:39:33
Speaker
And also with, if we find our place in like, we're receiving that because I think we've all been on the, on the receiving end of that.
00:39:39
Speaker
And it, it sucks and it hurts and be like, okay, but having, having the tools and the process in our own life life's journey to be like, all right, I know what I'm bringing to the table.
00:39:51
Speaker
Um,
00:39:51
Speaker
And if this is not working for you, yes, I'm going to feel sad and I will grieve and I'm going to have some feelings about that.
00:39:57
Speaker
But I'm feeling pretty secure with what I what who I am in this world.
00:40:02
Speaker
And if this is if who I am does not work for you, by all means, go, go be happy.
00:40:07
Speaker
This is a big world.
00:40:08
Speaker
Go find go find what you're looking for.
00:40:10
Speaker
That has my full support.
00:40:13
Speaker
And something that has helped me in the process with that is.
00:40:18
Speaker
If I remember these numbers correctly, okay, if only 1% of the people on this planet find you attractive or would enjoy being in a relationship with you, 1%, we're talking about 8 million people.
00:40:34
Speaker
There are 8 million people on this planet who, that's 1% of the planet, would find you attractive, would want to be, oh, I'd be interested in building a relationship with this person.
00:40:43
Speaker
So if we find ourselves like this person's leaving us, like, oh,
00:40:46
Speaker
What's happening is like, dude, there's 8 million.
00:40:48
Speaker
That's the minimum, minimum number of people.
00:40:52
Speaker
I mean, we're all, we're all good looking people here.
00:40:54
Speaker
I think that number for us is probably a little bit higher.
00:40:57
Speaker
So let's say 5% of the people on this planet find me attractive.
00:41:00
Speaker
That's 40 million people.
00:41:01
Speaker
If you want to leave, if you want to leave me and what's going on here, I love you.
00:41:05
Speaker
I got 40 million people out here dying to meet me.
00:41:08
Speaker
So I, you know, I, the queue is open people.
00:41:12
Speaker
The queue is open people.
00:41:13
Speaker
Exactly.
00:41:13
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:41:14
Speaker
So,
00:41:15
Speaker
You know, just apply some logical
Ceremonial Uncoupling: A New Approach
00:41:18
Speaker
numbers to it.
00:41:18
Speaker
It's like, this is a big planet.
00:41:21
Speaker
That takes a lot of self-love.
00:41:23
Speaker
It takes a lot of trust as well, that there is something that is more aligned.
00:41:29
Speaker
You know, I think that that's a key, what you're speaking to.
00:41:32
Speaker
And also what I have felt deeply in the process of the shifting transitions in relationship is trust.
00:41:38
Speaker
Trust the much bigger unfolding of our life journey, you know, to be able to rip that bandaid off and trust that I'm going to heal.
00:41:48
Speaker
I trust that this person is on their own journey and on their own path.
00:41:52
Speaker
I trust that I'm on my own path and being in that, uh, the, the place of, uh,
00:41:59
Speaker
breath and spaciousness and grieving as well.
00:42:02
Speaker
I think grieving is an important part of it.
00:42:04
Speaker
You know, when we let go of a big part of our life, whether that's a long-term relationship or even a short-term, you know, and give ourselves the space to, to cry and to be sad and to be upset about it is like, it's a really valuable part of the process.
00:42:19
Speaker
I know personally, I had a relationship where we, um,
00:42:23
Speaker
We were uncoupling.
00:42:25
Speaker
It was my choice, but he had been feeling it too.
00:42:29
Speaker
So we kind of, we came to that realization together.
00:42:34
Speaker
And we actually took 24 hours or so.
00:42:35
Speaker
We...
00:42:38
Speaker
turned our phones off and we just got together and we just cried and we held each other and we processed, we got to share some things that were really difficult.
00:42:48
Speaker
We just shared all the beautiful things.
00:42:51
Speaker
Um, we actually ended up one of the, um, the things that was like a salve for us was we compiled all of our photos and videos from our time together as sort of a completion.
00:43:04
Speaker
It was like an honoring of our time together.
00:43:08
Speaker
And that was so healing.
00:43:09
Speaker
It was so nourishing.
00:43:10
Speaker
And then it also became something that we got to share with our community.
00:43:15
Speaker
We posted it and we let people know like, hey, we are transitioning and please hold us and love us and know that we're doing this in a way that feels right for both of us.
00:43:26
Speaker
And it was really interesting, actually, the feedback that we got because there was...
00:43:30
Speaker
Quite a few people that reached out that were like, they were sad.
00:43:34
Speaker
They were more sad than we were, you know, because they saw this, you know, picture perfect relationship, but they didn't really understand the depth of what we were processing through.
00:43:45
Speaker
We had our own and our workings of our karma and our alignment, you know, that just we needed to work through.
00:43:52
Speaker
And so, yeah, it was really beautiful way to kind of ceremonialize, you know, the unwinding.
00:43:58
Speaker
And I like to consider also, you know, oftentimes people get married and have a ceremony around it and create these vows and, you know, commit to each other.
00:44:09
Speaker
And then when someone gets a divorce,
00:44:11
Speaker
There's no ceremonies usually.
00:44:13
Speaker
Maybe some people have little uncoupling ceremonies.
00:44:18
Speaker
Can you imagine how powerful that would be to come back together in a sacred and reverent way and make new vows to each other?
00:44:25
Speaker
Like I vow to honor and respect you as my friend.
00:44:29
Speaker
I vow to take the lessons of our relationship and implement them into my life with a new partner, right?
00:44:36
Speaker
There's so many beautiful things that can come from
00:44:39
Speaker
the completion cycles, honoring the completions, but we're not taught how to do that.
00:44:45
Speaker
You know?
00:44:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:47
Speaker
There's some, that's a, that would be a powerful, that's like, that's like, you know, like purple, like universal crown, crown level, like processing, like, okay, like a divorce party or an uncoupling gathering, like how you get our community of friends together to witness us as we transition out of relationship, out of romantic relationships,
00:45:09
Speaker
into friendship back in the community to be witnessed by that and to be celebrated like you guys had an awesome run fantastic let's whoop it up let's have a let's have a great night uh great day together and you know yeah just the the exact like flip of a you know marriage or you know hand fasting ceremony or whatever that's like next level and uh totally yeah i thought i thought about that'd be a great business idea
00:45:34
Speaker
You know, officiants for wedding, but also officiants for divorce ceremonialize the process.
00:45:39
Speaker
There you go.
00:45:40
Speaker
It might get a little messy, you know, but shadow.
00:45:44
Speaker
I was going to ask you and you feel free to dismiss this and say what you were about to say, but have you ever, or do you see value in like in your process with the relationship?
00:45:57
Speaker
Have you ever been like witnessed by community?
00:46:00
Speaker
Have you ever been, have you ever done the conscious uncoupling post-
00:46:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:04
Speaker
And that's, that's what I was going to speak to it because, because I mean, so much of my life I share publicly and often that after, after many deep conversations with my partner is the agreement, you know, like, are you comfortable with this being something that I share?
00:46:19
Speaker
At some level,
Public Sharing and Community Support
00:46:21
Speaker
I'm either going to share, I have a partner with an initial and not put their picture online, or I'm going to truly invite them into what I'm speaking in the world because I'm sharing my journey as part of my journey.
00:46:37
Speaker
teaching and part of my that's part of what that's what i do and so it feels uh out of integrity to share a love story and then just say it's over that's that person's not a part of the story anymore it's like whoa whoa whoa now to be fair
00:46:54
Speaker
Usually some time passes, a little bit of tearing, so that the ending can be told in the most beautiful way possible.
00:47:01
Speaker
There is always some pain involved with a uncoupling.
00:47:10
Speaker
for my experience.
00:47:11
Speaker
And so that is not necessarily, that is kind of sugar-coated, still explained like, hey, we've gotten to a place where, you know, we're unable to support each other in the ways that we want to and trying to celebrate.
00:47:23
Speaker
These are the things that we, these are the good times that we're always going to remember.
00:47:26
Speaker
These are the things we learn from each other.
00:47:28
Speaker
This is the ways that we hope to support each other in the future.
00:47:30
Speaker
And I found that to be an exceptionally helpful way to
00:47:35
Speaker
to reframe this just overwhelming emotional like grief experience and find some gratitude in it.
00:47:43
Speaker
And it's usually something that we will write each our own and then have the other person read it over and say, are you comfortable with this?
00:47:50
Speaker
Are you comfortable with this?
00:47:52
Speaker
with some pictures to allow the people who have celebrated our love story to witness the conclusion of this chapter because i mean i can look back at every single one of my relationships none of my relationships were failures none of them didn't work out
00:48:07
Speaker
They've all been incredible parts of this journey that I'm at now.
00:48:13
Speaker
You know, my my current partner is like, I'm so grateful for your past.
00:48:16
Speaker
I'm so grateful for your past.
00:48:18
Speaker
Like, yeah, because it took all of that to get here.
00:48:21
Speaker
And so and I think that the public uncoupling story is part of that, like forced processing and go, wait, there's there's so much good in this.
00:48:31
Speaker
There's so much goodness.
00:48:32
Speaker
Let's let's let's wrap this up in a bow so that we can start the next chapter.
00:48:37
Speaker
Totally.
00:48:37
Speaker
Yep.
00:48:38
Speaker
I wholeheartedly agree.
00:48:39
Speaker
And I feel like that's also something really beautiful we can give to the community, especially because, you know, on social media, there tends to be this sort of like, oh, let's just only share what's beautiful and like, oh, love.
00:48:53
Speaker
And oh, there's like hundreds and hundreds of likes on marriage and proposals.
00:48:57
Speaker
But then there's not always as much sharing around the shadow aspects or the like uncoupling.
00:49:03
Speaker
And then there's this sort of feeling of like story, like, you know, like, oh, are they still together?
00:49:09
Speaker
I don't know.
00:49:10
Speaker
And that's kind of awkward.
00:49:11
Speaker
How do I, you know, it's
00:49:13
Speaker
it's an interesting kind of thing.
00:49:14
Speaker
And so I know personally, I've gone through that too, where I've had multiple partners where we took that time, we had our own processing behind the scenes, and then came to a place of deciding that we wanted to share with our community that we were in transition.
00:49:31
Speaker
And we did it from that place of kindness
00:49:34
Speaker
and authenticity around that yes it was hard but we are choosing to focus on the good things and the beautiful memories that we shared and the lessons and it was really powerful because that also for me
00:49:49
Speaker
helped me to not be in the story so much when I would see people in person.
00:49:54
Speaker
You know, when I share publicly, then my community can hold me.
00:49:58
Speaker
And then when they see me, they're not like, so what's been happening for you?
00:50:02
Speaker
How's your heart?
00:50:03
Speaker
Are you okay?
00:50:04
Speaker
Like, is your, you know, you guys broke up or whatever.
00:50:06
Speaker
And all the stories is like, instead people come to me and go, wow,
00:50:10
Speaker
Thank you for sharing your post.
00:50:11
Speaker
That was really helpful for me to understand what you're going through.
00:50:14
Speaker
It was very beautiful.
00:50:15
Speaker
And it was such a different feeling than like pity, you know?
00:50:20
Speaker
And so, and it also like, again, like the video I had shared, it's like, you know, salve for the relationship.
00:50:26
Speaker
It's a place to process and to keep coming back to the joyful things that we got to experience and celebrate.
00:50:33
Speaker
And it's a classy way to tell the world you're back on the market.
00:50:39
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
00:50:40
Speaker
The queue is open.
00:50:42
Speaker
The queue is open, people.
00:50:45
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely a huge value of being witnessed by your friends and community because I almost look at life sometimes as like a group therapy session.
00:50:55
Speaker
It's like doing this alone, doing so many things alone is so much harder than doing them together or doing them together.
00:51:05
Speaker
you know, being witness while you're doing something.
00:51:07
Speaker
And even, you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, even if we're, even if we feel we're alone, we are indeed together in all this.
00:51:14
Speaker
So it's important to, you know, you've got resources.
00:51:17
Speaker
We have resources.
00:51:19
Speaker
We have friends who actually care about us.
00:51:21
Speaker
So, you know, bring some, bring some reinforcements in, bring some, bring some needed perspective.
00:51:26
Speaker
We all have people we love and respect.
00:51:28
Speaker
bring these people in to be like, yeah, it's like, yeah, you're, you're doing this awesome.
00:51:32
Speaker
Or I see you, or maybe you can do something a little different.
00:51:35
Speaker
You know, don't do these things alone.
00:51:37
Speaker
So this reminds me and that I don't, I'm not sure how much, how much time we have left, but this reminds me of, you know, a saying that, you know, if, if the truth would destroy a thing, then that thing should be destroyed.
00:51:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:56
Speaker
And there's a lot of – and I want to also acknowledge the other side of this.
00:52:00
Speaker
We've been talking about conscious uncoupling, which is like the ideal way to transition in a relationship.
00:52:07
Speaker
A lot of times, like we would like – let's say we would like to get to that point, but our relationship is such –
00:52:14
Speaker
shambles that for us to get to a point where we can do this like highly enlightened uncoupling is just not feasible it's just not working so um so i think it's important to recognize if we find ourselves in that situation
00:52:29
Speaker
know use the you know apply the hippocratic oath in this case okay do from this point do no harm or do no more harm if it just needs to be over then it just needs to be over um and we can just like okay for the sake of everybody involved we just gotta call it uh if you find yourself in that position don't feel like we need to get to this place of a conscious like winding and such this relationship needs to be over
00:52:56
Speaker
End it.
00:52:57
Speaker
End it.
00:52:57
Speaker
Rip the bandaid off.
00:52:59
Speaker
Make the hard transition.
00:53:01
Speaker
And when we wake up to that, to the reality that this is, wow, what am I doing?
00:53:09
Speaker
What am I doing here?
00:53:11
Speaker
Kind of reminds me of a couple that she was going into her first ayahuasca session when I was helping to organize these things.
00:53:19
Speaker
And her boyfriend actually called me and was like, can you not have her be in this?
00:53:23
Speaker
Can you just tell her it's full?
00:53:25
Speaker
And I'm like, why?
00:53:26
Speaker
Because I think I'm afraid that she goes into this.
00:53:29
Speaker
She's going to break up with me afterwards.
00:53:31
Speaker
And I was like, oh, I am wholly unqualified to have this conversation.
00:53:38
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:53:39
Speaker
I wish you guys all the best, but she's in it.
00:53:41
Speaker
And, you know, whatever comes out of that, it comes out of that.
00:53:45
Speaker
And so we had the session and I didn't get a chance to check in with her right away, but I did see her the following weekend at an event.
00:53:52
Speaker
I'm like, Hey, so how was last weekend for you?
00:53:54
Speaker
How'd it go?
00:53:55
Speaker
And she was like, well, you didn't tell me about the whole needing to change every aspect of my life thing.
00:54:00
Speaker
I'm like, Oh yeah, that, that's that, uh, ayahuasca kind of does that.
00:54:04
Speaker
She's like, yeah,
00:54:05
Speaker
I broke up with my boyfriend.
00:54:06
Speaker
I'm moving out of his house.
00:54:07
Speaker
I'm quitting my job and doing all this stuff.
00:54:10
Speaker
And it's complete life reset, which was awesome because she ended up creating her own business, finding the love of her life, marriage, kids, this, that, and the other thing.
00:54:19
Speaker
But she had to completely reset her thing.
00:54:22
Speaker
And she said she did not have the awareness or even the ability to do that until half her
00:54:27
Speaker
going through the, you know, taking the medicine coming out and being like, Oh, wow, none of this is working.
00:54:32
Speaker
And I've been so afraid to do something about it.
00:54:35
Speaker
I'm no longer afraid.
The Importance of Self-Reflection and Space
00:54:37
Speaker
Rip the bandaid off, you know, just pull the car over, get out, start walking, whatever, whatever analogy you want to use.
00:54:43
Speaker
But yeah, yeah, it's important to, once you have the awareness, like this is not working, you can either try to make it work or you could just be like, all right, call it.
00:54:51
Speaker
This is it.
00:54:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:53
Speaker
Yeah, and I think I want to highlight just the essence of that is coming back into yourself, right?
00:55:01
Speaker
Whether that is doing a ceremony of ayahuasca or taking a few days or a retreat or just taking some space can oftentimes bring a lot of clarity around how to move forward and how to shift, you know, like I just need to have a retreat and check in with myself.
00:55:18
Speaker
And then to be able to come to that place of kindness within and hopefully anyways, to be able to have those conversations from that more centered place when you're not so swept up in each other's energy.
00:55:31
Speaker
So yeah, I think that there's, of course, I love these conversations because there's always more and more and more and more.
00:55:36
Speaker
We could keep sparking and staying in this conversation.
Closing Insights and Affirmation
00:55:40
Speaker
And maybe we will for a future episode, but I think it probably is good to start to
00:55:45
Speaker
find our way into some closing sparks on this topic.
00:55:49
Speaker
Sure, I'll jump in with a spark that's related to some of the things you guys have just been talking about, which is that I think that it's so the goal is always a harmonious, peaceful, beautiful uncoupling.
00:56:03
Speaker
But before that, or the more the priority above that is integrity and honesty.
00:56:11
Speaker
I've seen people stay together because they don't want to hurt the partner.
00:56:15
Speaker
And they're trying to avoid causing pain and the suffering that's gonna happen with the breakup or the splitting.
00:56:23
Speaker
And so this temporary maintaining the peace is built on lies.
00:56:31
Speaker
It's built on this deceit.
00:56:33
Speaker
And I think the deeper, you know,
00:56:38
Speaker
crime against your partner is postponing this thing and having them live in a lie.
00:56:45
Speaker
They think things are okay.
00:56:47
Speaker
And that is a way worse thing than the temporary suffering.
00:56:51
Speaker
And so I think that part of it's ideally you leave as co-heroes of an epic love story, but it's also sometimes you have to be the villain in someone else's temporary story.
00:57:04
Speaker
And that's how growth happens.
00:57:06
Speaker
Sometimes it's gotta be a rough chapter.
00:57:08
Speaker
Sometimes you are the person that somebody is angry at.
00:57:11
Speaker
And often when they go through their journey, they can look back and say, I needed that.
00:57:18
Speaker
I'm so grateful that you did that.
00:57:19
Speaker
And I think that we can all look at our lives and look at times in the past when we, during an ending of relationship, we're like, no, I can't live without you.
00:57:28
Speaker
And then four years later, you're like, oh my God, I'm so glad they're not in my life anymore.
00:57:32
Speaker
And the more that happens, the more you can go, this is just the way life is.
00:57:36
Speaker
And it takes that those hard conversations with your partner and with yourself and going, I need to get right.
00:57:45
Speaker
I need to be in integrity for both of our sakes so we can reach our potentials and good luck.
00:57:54
Speaker
Woo.
00:57:54
Speaker
Bring in some sparks.
00:57:58
Speaker
I'm about to start some fires there.
00:57:59
Speaker
Halcyon.
00:58:00
Speaker
Good.
00:58:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:02
Speaker
The, you know, there's, there's a definition of hell, which describes it as being forced to live forever with everything you ever wanted.
00:58:10
Speaker
And getting everything you ever wanted.
00:58:13
Speaker
And, you know, we,
00:58:16
Speaker
It's important to speak to what Halcyon's talking about.
00:58:20
Speaker
Being able to, we go through this life in this world with an actual, we have a level of sovereignty, even if we don't acknowledge it.
00:58:28
Speaker
Like I'm in this world, I'm with this partner and so on and so forth.
00:58:31
Speaker
It's like we come into this world alone, we leave this world alone.
00:58:34
Speaker
And there's a large aspect of our journey
00:58:37
Speaker
which is most of it is frankly about us and being, being cool with, with, with that and knowing kind of really acknowledging that we are not as much as I love my partner, as much as we are building a life together, there's a lot of my world that is all about me and being able to look myself in the mirror and a lot of different, you know, realms and areas, particularly in this case about relationship.
00:59:05
Speaker
I haven't always been, I haven't always been able to do that.
00:59:07
Speaker
and getting to a point where like, okay, if we're going to unwind this relationship, I have to feel good about how I'm doing this.
00:59:15
Speaker
And also if I'm on the receiving end of that, I'm going to, I have to feel good about how I show up for this person who is leaving me.
00:59:22
Speaker
Um, if so, if I'm, so what, no matter what end,
00:59:25
Speaker
we're approaching this uncoupling from.
00:59:28
Speaker
We have to be able to like look ourselves in the mirror and feel good about who we are, feel good about how we handle things.
00:59:34
Speaker
I did, I handled this to the best of my ability.
00:59:37
Speaker
There's really frankly, no, no, not many better feelings than that to be able to know in our heart of hearts, like, okay, you know, that integrity is defined as like what we do when nobody's looking and knowing like, okay, I handle this to the best of my ability.
00:59:53
Speaker
Always do your best, one of the four gradients.
00:59:55
Speaker
And that best is going to vary from day to day.
00:59:56
Speaker
But if we can look at ourselves and be like, I handled this uncoupling, this unwinding to the best of my ability.
01:00:04
Speaker
you that's that is something that's like we can take with us moving forward.
01:00:09
Speaker
And that is going to serve as well, knowing that we did our best and that we received this in our best way.
01:00:15
Speaker
So so, yeah, just kind of double level in the house and saying that integrity piece is huge.
01:00:20
Speaker
So doing our best is going to serve as well.
01:00:24
Speaker
Mm hmm.
01:00:25
Speaker
Well said.
01:00:26
Speaker
Yes.
01:00:27
Speaker
Closing sparks all crystallize it.
01:00:29
Speaker
Kindness, integrity, honesty.
01:00:33
Speaker
responsibility, receiving wisdom from other people that have gone through processes, receiving support from community, from family, from friends that hold us in the highest and best way, asking for guidance when lost and not sure how to move through.
01:00:54
Speaker
you know, taking space.
01:00:55
Speaker
These are all things I think are really, really valuable things to be able to implement into the process of navigating when a relationship is, is ready for a shift.
01:01:07
Speaker
And I think the last piece too, as you spoke to this right at the beginning, Yanis is around impermanence.
01:01:13
Speaker
Everything is impermanence.
01:01:14
Speaker
This too will pass, whether it's through a physical death or transition and
01:01:19
Speaker
Just a relationship.
01:01:20
Speaker
This is a part of our existence is this too will pass.
01:01:25
Speaker
And lastly, if we feel like our story doesn't have a happy ending, it's because your story's not over yet.
01:01:33
Speaker
So just allow things, you know, step back and allow, know that your life, this is ongoing journey that this relationship is, is not your life.
01:01:42
Speaker
This is a chapter of your life.
01:01:44
Speaker
And, um, if it seems like it's like, you're moving into a different aspect of the story, the saga of your life.
01:01:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:51
Speaker
There's, there's some grace, you know, you can let, let turn the page with some grace.
01:01:56
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:01:57
Speaker
And our hearts are, our hearts are meant to feel all the feels, not just joy and love, but also sorrow and grief.
01:02:04
Speaker
So to honor the, all the feels of the heart.
01:02:10
Speaker
All right.
01:02:11
Speaker
Wow.
01:02:11
Speaker
Thank you guys so much.
01:02:13
Speaker
So thank you guys for listening out there.
01:02:15
Speaker
Always open to receive your comments, messages, feedback, thoughts, conversations.
01:02:23
Speaker
You know, this is a very deep and complex conversation.
01:02:26
Speaker
So please do send us a message.
01:02:29
Speaker
And also, if anyone out there would like to work with us or receive our offerings in the world, love to share with you how you can do that.
01:02:36
Speaker
So I'll start.
01:02:38
Speaker
I am the founder of the Power Affirmation Project, which is a journal that helps with reprogramming limiting beliefs and getting into a deeper and more loving relationship with yourself.
01:02:48
Speaker
And I offer audio affirmations, also one-on-one coaching virtually and in person.
01:02:54
Speaker
I also do mind, body, spirit healing sessions with massage therapy, energy work,
01:02:59
Speaker
aerial somatics and retreats.
01:03:02
Speaker
So if you want to find me, you can check out power affirmation.com.
01:03:06
Speaker
You can also find me on the socials.
01:03:08
Speaker
And then also in the show notes, there's a free gift for an affirmation that you can download.
01:03:13
Speaker
Beautiful.
01:03:15
Speaker
My place of digital access is johnstyn.com, J-O-H-N-S-T-Y-N, and it has access to the Hug Nation YouTube channel, which has been 2,000 or so videos.
01:03:28
Speaker
So if you want to see what I've been like in past relationships, you could probably witness that if you search back far enough in the archives.
01:03:34
Speaker
But there's also links to my Medium,
01:03:37
Speaker
which has a bunch of blogs about also relationships and everything else I've been going through and daily gratitude circles that are happening in zoom.
01:03:45
Speaker
So I would love to connect.
01:03:48
Speaker
Cool.
01:03:48
Speaker
Cool.
01:03:49
Speaker
I am available on the internets at newworldnutritionals.com.
01:03:55
Speaker
That's spelled N-U, worldnutritionals.com.
01:03:57
Speaker
And this is the name of my nutritional supplement company, which has a main product called Micromacell Plus, which is good for mushroom-based.
01:04:07
Speaker
It's a mushroom-based product that allows people to help alleviate symptoms that anxiety, depression, ADHD, PTSD.
01:04:13
Speaker
It's also helping with forms of dementia, dementia,
01:04:16
Speaker
MS, Parkinson's, anything like neurological, it's proven to be fantastic.
01:04:20
Speaker
And even for people who are just looking to focus, improve their memory of retention, they're just looking to honestly just feel good, have a good day.
01:04:30
Speaker
And my partner calls it a spa day for your brain.
01:04:32
Speaker
It's a great product for that.
01:04:34
Speaker
So you can find that online at newworldnutritionals.com.
01:04:39
Speaker
And you can use the code SPARKED for 10% off of all of our products.
01:04:43
Speaker
Hmm.
01:04:44
Speaker
Amazing.
01:04:45
Speaker
Thank you for that.
01:04:47
Speaker
Beautiful guys.
01:04:48
Speaker
All right.
01:04:48
Speaker
So let's close it up with an affirmation based on this conversation.
01:04:54
Speaker
The word that's coming to my mind and heart is harmony.
01:04:58
Speaker
And so love to share an affirmation on harmony.
01:05:01
Speaker
So if you'd like, you can close your eyes, maybe take a nice deep breath and allow this affirmation to guide you.
01:05:12
Speaker
embody harmony in all of my relationships.
01:05:15
Speaker
I embody harmony in all of my relationships.
01:05:20
Speaker
I allow harmony to guide my conversations.
01:05:24
Speaker
I allow harmony to guide my conversations.
01:05:27
Speaker
I am a harmonious in all my relations.
01:05:31
Speaker
I am harmonious in all my relations.
01:05:34
Speaker
I am harmonious in all my relations.
01:05:37
Speaker
Harmony guides my way.
01:05:39
Speaker
Harmony guides my way.
01:05:42
Speaker
I embrace change.
01:05:44
Speaker
I embrace change with grace.
01:05:47
Speaker
I embrace change with grace.
01:05:50
Speaker
And so it is.
01:05:52
Speaker
Thank you guys for listening.
01:05:54
Speaker
Stay sparked.
01:05:55
Speaker
Stay sparked, people.