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Ep 32: The Wicker Man vs. Midsommar
12 Plays5 years ago
This week we are discussing some Folk Horror titles.
If you want to watch the video version of this podcast head over to www.youtube.com/girlygore
If you have requests for future episodes or just want to hang out follow us on Instagram @sinistersisterspodcast
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Transcript
Introduction to Sinister Sisters Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
What's up, weirdos? And welcome back to the Sinister Sisters podcast. I'm Felicia. And I'm Lauren. And we're best friends. And we like scary movies. And that's it. That's our whole thing. That's the whole thing. That's all we do. Today. So we're really excited because we're going to talk about our favorite movie for the first time on screen together, Midsummer. Yes, it's true. Favorite recent movie, I should say. It's true. And we both actually sort of randomly rewatched it in the last couple of weeks. Yes.
00:00:38
Speaker
And Felicia brought to my attention how similar it is to the Wicker Man. Yes.
Nicolas Cage and Horror Movie Opinions
00:00:44
Speaker
Literally never thought about it. We talked about doing an episode about cults, but that felt really big. Yes. That felt like a little, like we need to scale down a little bit. Yes. So we were thinking about these two movies and how they would be great in conversation together. Yes. And just for the record, we were not talking about the 2006 Wicker Man with Nicolas Cage. Although I have one comment about it. Oh.
00:01:08
Speaker
I know. Can we say it now or later? No, it's a it's a just like a random thing. Okay. I have to include. Oh, I can't wait. I hate Nicolas Cage. I love Nicolas Cage. I hated Nicolas Cage until the day I saw Mandy and then I was changed. I guess I got to see it. I was changed. I'm also going to go see Color Out of Space this weekend, which is also Nicolas Cage. Is it horror? Yeah, it's a
00:01:37
Speaker
Oh my god. Psychedelic. It's a psychedelic, but it's based off of a comic book strip. No, we're just gonna delete this whole part out. Serial box. Lovecraft. Wow.
00:01:54
Speaker
uh i feel like
Humorous Detour: Bad Wine and ASMR
00:01:56
Speaker
i just went in a trance i mean of nicholas cage flashing across my brain and then came out with lovecraft um but i spaced off a lovecraft story and the trailer looks really crazy it looks mandy-esque same producers that's what i felt but i'd never seen mandy so it felt
00:02:15
Speaker
You should see it. You should see it. But it seems like Mandy. Do you want some more wine before we start? Oh wow. You're empty. What service? You're empty. This one's called Poppy. And it says right here, $8.99. This is what I brought Felicia so I can insult it. There was a,
Exploring the 1973 'Wicker Man'
00:02:34
Speaker
this one is actually okay. ASMR? Oh yeah.
00:02:40
Speaker
The only wine that you ever brought that was really bad was she got a deal on a giant bottle of wine. That was like three wines and one. And it was maybe $7? I don't know. And as soon as she started pouring it, it started having like fizzing. Fizzing.
00:03:02
Speaker
You can't be right. And it wasn't. And it wasn't right. It wasn't right. But this is fine. This is nice. We've improved. We wish we could share with you every day. Cheers to you. Cheers to you. Through the microphones, through the screen. Okay, we're talking
Folk Horror: Themes and Landscapes
00:03:15
Speaker
about Wicker Man. 1973, baby. Yes. Before we talk about Wicker Man. Sorry.
00:03:21
Speaker
I want to talk a little bit, like a barely bit, just about what is connecting these movies, which is the sub-genre of folk horror. It's a rather, I would say small sub-genre, and not one that I think we talk about a lot, or I don't talk about a lot on my channel, but it has a couple of things.
00:03:40
Speaker
that encompass both these movies and that I think are interesting to sort of start us off. Yes. So the main or the biggest thing is that folk horror movies have a huge emphasis on landscape.
00:03:56
Speaker
and isolated locations yes so typically you have a community of people that have take over fleed urban environments um and in a cult very cult like way uh we'll go out into nature and so a lot of the movie is like big landscapes so um in midsummer of course we have like the big beautiful green and green mountain and all this stuff um
00:04:18
Speaker
And even though Wicker Man has a slightly gloomier look to it, it's not as sharp, bright colors. It still is very open. It's not small. Folkwear feels more vast, more open. Lots of mountains. Lots of mountains. And it also tends to be about groups creating their own morals, their own laws, their own norms within their own community, as cults do.
00:04:45
Speaker
Right. Particularly it seems around
Plot Summary and Key Scenes in 'Wicker Man'
00:04:48
Speaker
sex and violence and what this means and religion and they tend to have a lot of pagan themes throughout them.
00:04:57
Speaker
Something I found on the internet was that the term of old core sort of came about initially through this group of movies that someone has called the unholy trinity which I think is a very epic name for something. Actually I will link the article down below that I stole this from because I thought it was well written and I did not write it but the three movies are
00:05:22
Speaker
Michael Reeves' Witchfinder General, which is from 68. Piers Haggard's The Blood on Satan's Claw from 71. And Robin Hardy's The Wicker Man, here we are, from 73. And so I also think, even though obviously Midsommar's a very new movie, when I think about Folklore, I really do think about hippy-dippy, culty 70s vibes. And I'm sure that's because of my association to The Wicker Man.
00:05:49
Speaker
But that, even in Midsummer, even though that is not the vibe of Midsummer, that is still sort of my lens over it. It's like hippie dippy 70s. But I would say it is. Yeah, it's got parts, it's got something. Yeah. Definitely like the first time I feel like that friend talks in Midsummer, you're like, oh, you're like a hippie. Yeah, exactly. He has like a long hair. Totally, totally.
00:06:12
Speaker
So do you want to start with bigger man? Yeah, this was the first time wait, right? Yes is the first time I saw it same here I had seen the Nicholas cage one. I have never seen the Nicholas. I believe I was actually forced to watch The Nicholas cage one as like exposure therapy
00:06:28
Speaker
From by who? A doctor? No, I think my ex-boyfriend. Oh, well, that's why he's an ex-boyfriend. No, I actually can't remember why we watched it, but I think he was just like, this is hilarious. Oh, okay. There's a lot of punching women. Did I tell you that over Christmas break,
00:06:47
Speaker
We so I feel like a lot of family struggle with this of like after you eat dinner. We're all gonna watch movies together What are you gonna watch? Yeah, and it takes a long time to figure out what you're gonna watch and eventually someone never takes any time in my family Oh my god, it's you know, why no, I say this is what we're watching That's not really true. Most of them. I'm like, what if we watch this movie? No one responds. I put it in
00:07:12
Speaker
That's hilarious. In my family, it's like my mom's like, I don't want to see any naked people. I don't want to see any violence. She's not Jewish. I don't know where that accent came from. She's from the South. She'd say, I believe. I believe in Lord Jesus Christ.
00:07:27
Speaker
Mom, I'm sure you're watching this, obviously. I know you don't sound like that. I love you very much. And we love your Southern accent. We do. We actually wish, I wish I had one. You can have one. I put it on sometimes. Yeah, she's from Virginia. It's like enough. It's a bit close. But, and so, and then like my dad likes to watch like serious things. I don't know. So it's like, we, it's always hard to find something we can all watch as a family that is somewhat appropriate. So you watched The Wicker Man? No. And so Andreas, my brother was like,
00:07:57
Speaker
Oh, what's this Nicolas Cage movie season of The Witch? And I was like, I was like, Andres, I can tell you I've never seen it, but it does have like a 5% or something on Rotten Tomatoes. And apparently it is the worst movie ever made. And he was like, we gotta watch it. And so we turned it on and the first five minutes.
00:08:17
Speaker
I mean clearly it was the worst movie ever made. It was like everyone was in their own movie. No one was in the same movie. It was very strange. And then about half an hour and I would say everyone in my family just passed out. Including under it. Maybe we were all in desperate need for a nap and that was that. So you don't know anything about it.
00:08:36
Speaker
So I don't know anything about it other than it was not good. But that's not what we're talking about today. What are we talking about? We're talking about Lauren. So I didn't look up how to say this word and now I'm embarrassed. But it's set on an island in the Scottish... Hebrides. Hebrides. Hebrides. Hebrides. They all say it in an accent so I have no idea how it's said. Isn't there another thing it's called too?
00:09:02
Speaker
Yes, Felicia. How kind of you to bring that up. Yeah, well you keep talking and I'll find it. But it's basically a police sergeant comes into this, or comes onto this island, comes in this community to investigate the disappearance of a little girl named Rowan. What a weird name. I know, but I kind of like that name now. Oh, she's naming your daughter.
00:09:23
Speaker
She's pregnant. I revealed it. No way. Um, anyway, she, so he receives an anonymous letter and comes to Summer Isle. Summer Isle. They say that a bunch. Oh, well, cause it's, isn't it, isn't that the leader's name? I don't know.
00:09:41
Speaker
Lord Summer Isle. Oh, Lord Summer Isle. I see, I see. Now she remembers. She's Cosm, Christopher Lee. I do, I do. Um, anyway, so can't wait to talk about him in this movie. This police sergeant comes in, uh, and he is a devout Christian, which is key because this group of islanders are all worshiping the pagan, uh, Celtic gods. Yes. And so lots of weird things are happening.
00:10:08
Speaker
people are having sex in the field. There are more naked people. Okay. The only, there's a lot of people in this, but I will say I watched hostile last night and that might've won for the most naked people, but there are a lot of naked people in this. There are a lot of naked people. So he like at night at some point sees like a bunch of naked people having sex in the field and he's like, what's going on? Yes.
00:10:26
Speaker
and then um he's also uh he's so catholic that he is not uh he's a virgin he's not gonna gonna have sex until he's married i think he's engaged he's engaged betrothed betrothed and so he really is looking around and is so shocked and overwhelmed by the sin
00:10:45
Speaker
Yes. And it's going down over here on this island. Does it happen first? So he like, where he's staying, the landlord's daughter is like beautiful. Yes. This beautiful appearing Scottish woman. And so she kind of tries to seduce him. There's a scene where she's just like dancing naked in her room and he's... That's my favorite scene. Yeah. Okay. Well, there's... I mean, her body is great. Her body is great. Also, she was pregnant, I think, and they did body doubles for some of that. Is that the right actress?
00:11:13
Speaker
You're just making up stuff left and right. I'm just kidding. If it didn't happen, then you know, I'm just wrong. But everyone's a different actress. OK, the singing. So there's a lot of singing in this movie. A lot of singing. Which was also shocking to me. Me too. How much singing there was. But there's definitely in terms of like, yes, there's like some pagan things going on. Some of the singing does feel very
00:11:39
Speaker
like an incantation kind of deal. And I'm sorry, I'm just jumping ahead right to this moment, but you mentioned it, so I'm talking about it. But that moment where she's in the other room and she's singing naked and dancing and like hitting the wall in this like really dramatic way. Felicia has done that also. Yes, it's a hobby of mine. And then in the other room, you can tell that the police officer is just like,
00:12:05
Speaker
Having a meltdown like can't take it like literally is about to go in there and loose his virginity and then like so But I'm also like unclear if he's like seeing her in like I don't know I can't visions of her. It seems like he is it's yeah It seems like he's like experiencing whatever she's putting out. Yeah But it from a different room, but I'm also like why she got such a thing from oh
00:12:28
Speaker
People love outsiders. No, I think it's like, and so that's part of the thing that's, we can talk about in Midsummer too, but it's like about seducing the outsider and getting him in and getting him captured. Because everyone on the island's related, so. That's probably true. That's definitely true. So more weird things that are happening. The children are very involved in the May Day celebrations, which is different than
00:12:51
Speaker
Yes, it is which we'll talk about in a little bit, but he like walks into a classroom and This like teacher is is teaching these children about how the Maypole is like a phallic symbol. Yes, and he's like these are children Yeah, it was truly hilarious to me about all of his reactions to everything Howie
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah. He's continually outraged. He's so outraged, but he's not outraged in an American way, which is like, I'm outraged, but I'm going to be really like quiet and just give you a weird look about it. And then I'll go home and like type out on the internet. He like walks in, stops the class and is like, you're a boy. And like, he's like, he's literally interrupting their daily life and stepping in, which is very different.
00:13:38
Speaker
And the most intense part about this movie, I feel like, is that he is seemingly a crazy person. He's yelling, and everyone who's actually doing all these crazy things is just like, oh, interesting. You think we're crazy? Yes. Oh my god, yeah. That's what teachers like, wow.
00:13:54
Speaker
I'm gonna keep teaching him this. So it's something I think is really interesting about Howie is that because he is a man of the law and he's a Catholic and that's how he understands life, these people are not technically doing anything illegal.
00:14:09
Speaker
So he can't stop anything that's happening, where he's usually, I'm assuming, used to having the power to be like, you stop that, because I'm a police. And he keeps saying that, he's like, I'm a police, you say he's a police officer. And they're all just like, okay, cool. And it's just great. So in that classroom scene, he does like, and he does ask them if anyone's seen Rowan, they all act like
00:14:34
Speaker
She's not there. She doesn't exist. Yes. They act like she's never existed.
Isolation and Outsiders in Folk Horror
00:14:38
Speaker
Yes. They don't know who she is. And then he's like, her name's on the roster. Yes. I don't know how he finds the roster now. He just grabs it from somewhere. He just grabs it. Anyway.
00:14:50
Speaker
but at that point I will say oh they're also sorry the other scene that I found so upsetting was that they the scene where the mom like is it a mom what's the toad in the little girl's mouth because she's a sore throat she's a sore throat so it's like clearly they have a different way of dealing with things no medicine there yes um so keep going uh I lost it uh the next thing I was gonna say sure
00:15:15
Speaker
So the schoolteacher is the one that tells him finally about her burial plot, Rowan's burial plot. He goes, he asks the leader for permission to go to dig up her grave. And then the leader kind of explains that they've had this tradition of that like, basically, they're all pagan because this leader's grandfather said like, if we worship these pagan gods, our harvest will flourish.
00:15:43
Speaker
Yes, and it did. And so there was always someone, like I guess they pick a May queen, brings you know a harvest to them, and then they continue on with the tradition. But the police sergeant finds a picture of Rowan, this little girl, amidst empty harvest boxes. So the uh sacrifice failed, clearly, and so then he's still on his quest to like to find her.
00:16:10
Speaker
They realized that this year something has gone wrong. They did not have a harvest. Even when he gets there, he has dinner and they feed him food out of cans or something. And he's like, aren't you guys known for your produce? This is really weird. And I did remember what I was going to say now, which is...
00:16:25
Speaker
that in the school scene, that is the moment where we understand that not only are the adults hiding something, but the kids, everyone knows something that the police, that Howie does not. And that is like, okay, now we're really us against them.
00:16:45
Speaker
Yes. Faux show. Faux show. And then I don't, that's pretty much it. Then we go, I didn't want to really see the dancing around the fire naked. Oh no, we haven't talked about that. Oh, I love the dancing around the fire naked. There is that. And he's shocked by it. Cause apparently, even though they all looked like adults to me, but he keeps saying they're kids. Kids, maybe even teenagers. I don't know. They're just dancing naked around them.
00:17:10
Speaker
There's a lot of dancing to get a lot of dancing to get a lot of singing. That's great. There's some scary animal ass. But then we get into like the final scene pretty much. Yes. Yes. And there is also a moment where he every year there is like some sort of picture of the celebration. Oh, this is all your stuff. I just saw. Sorry. Oh, I was reading this. I was reading this and I was like, it's on my nose. I was like, please.
00:17:36
Speaker
I should have changed sections. No. I was just trying to make sense of it. Yes. But basically, as the movie starts spiraling towards the end, I'll say, he's really getting really upset about not being able to find this little girl and starts and it's so sure that they're hiding her somewhere and he can't find her. And so he is literally Oh, we should also say inside her burial plot is a rabbit.
00:18:05
Speaker
yeah I can't it's her other form like that's Rowan in her other form and he's like yeah and they also um
00:18:15
Speaker
Yeah, okay, well, we'll get to themes in a second, I guess. So he's literally breaking into everyone's house, trying to find her, and they're just making fun of him in a way. There's this one part where a different little girl pretends to be dead to scare him. Everyone's just like, yeah, come on in here, rip this place apart, man. Whatever you gotta do to feel better about yourself. It's very strange that he's really spiraling. And then he decides that he is going to go take a nap.
00:18:44
Speaker
I don't know if you wanted a full plot summary, but that's what we're giving you today He goes to take a nap and he overhears that they're going to give him some sleeping Situations going on so he doesn't wake up for a long time and we don't and we assume And he assumes that's because they're gonna go do whatever ritual that he's found out about which is basically what he assumes is gonna be a child sacrifice He assumes that they have her somewhere and they're going to kill her in order to get her props. Yes, I
00:19:12
Speaker
and so he uh wakes he when they walk away he's like okay i'm awake and realizes they have a burning hand next to his head uh which is supposed to be lulling him into his sleep i guess i don't know didn't work i can't i don't know i don't know what that was about uh but it was a fun visual yes um and then he knocks out like the innkeeper bar dude and uses his costume to go to the
00:19:38
Speaker
to the ceremony,
Comparing 'Midsummer' and 'Wicker Man'
00:19:39
Speaker
to the meeting. In disguise. In disguise. He's got a mask on, everyone's wearing animal masks. Everyone's wearing animal masks. Super scary animal masks. Yes. Well, no, the super scary animal masks come later. Oh, no. Or are they wearing them at the ritual?
00:19:53
Speaker
They're even wearing them around town. Yeah, right? Yeah. I'm just remembering that scene where they come up over the wall. Yeah, yeah. Right at the end. So good. So good. And it's funny because it reminded me of if you guys saw the Pet Sematary remake, the trailer of that, they kept showing all these kids an animal mask. And it was so cool, so creepy. And they did absolutely nothing with it in the film. And this, it works much better, I think. It works really well. Yeah. But they do play this scary game at the ritual where they put their head through these blades.
00:20:23
Speaker
They're like one by one going through the blades and then like somebody it goes off on someone and it's like a fake head There's a lot going on. It's a lot a lot of ritual. I don't know if we should just literally ruin it now Yeah, it's from the 70s I think we can ruin it okay, but so basically they reveal that he is going to be the sacrifice Yes, Rowan come he finds Rowan. Yes, she tricks him to follow her as she runs and he's like I'm gonna save you and then she's like
00:20:52
Speaker
Gotcha. And then they put them in a giant, giant wicker man and they burn them alive. With live animals. With live animals and it's a big sacrifice so that they can have good crops again. Yes. Basically. Yes. Yes. So now we're going to sort of talk about it with Midsummer. Is there anything else you wanted to say about wicker man specifically?
00:21:15
Speaker
I want to bring up one thing just because I don't think it's going to come up in the midst of our conversation and sort of back to talking about the differing religions going on in this one. I just think it's interesting that Christopher Lee's character
00:21:33
Speaker
very understanding of the fact that he is like a Catholic he's like oh yes the Catholics like they tried that it didn't work we get better results here as pagans blah blah blah and he's very understanding and
00:21:46
Speaker
in a way, even though he's gonna end up sacrificing him alive, but Howie is so resistant. Yes. Which I do think will come up again later. Yes, and it does feel like it is, I mean it's like half that his beliefs are like law related and half that his beliefs are religion, but it does feel like a lot more religion than Midsomer. Yes. Yeah, in that way. Yeah, and total
00:22:12
Speaker
like lack of any attempt at understanding any of it. Yes. Just like full. Outraged like from the beginning. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So now Midsummer. Yes. I won't give like as full a plot because I feel like there are more people that haven't seen it yet, haven't seen it, but it's similar themes where like a couple, except that it's a couple and a group of people, a couple and then a friend group are traveling abroad to Sweden to visit their friend's hometown for its fabled Midsummer festival. Yes.
00:22:41
Speaker
And then things get weird. Pretty much. Yes, things get weird. When they realize it's a cult. Yes. They arrive and a couple of members are there to really study the anthropology of what's going on here because it's like a society that has been relatively untouched by the outside world. Yes. When you get to a certain age in the society, they travel out, which is how we
00:23:08
Speaker
meet our character, what's his name, Pita? I always forget his name, I'm sorry. But they sort of, they venture out into the world, they see the world, and then they come back home. And that's really, also this is Ari Aster, if you don't know, he is the guy that did Hereditary in 2018, just for a little reference in case, I'm assuming those people know about Midsummer, but it's very possible that someone does not.
00:23:36
Speaker
Pele? Yeah. Pele. Yeah. Pele. Pele. You think I would remember, but I don't. But I will say it starts with, I mean, the, the plot itself starts with like them going into their friend's home.
00:23:54
Speaker
so it's already has a tone of like acceptance and they're trying to like learn about the culture and they're trying to um they're happy to be there they're happy to be there and it does feel like kind of like a not a vacation but like they're going to like get away instead of like you know our poor police sergeant who's literally coming in to try to figure out a crime so it's like he's on the defense from the very different vibe yes but it does have like a similar reveal of of you know where it's like
00:24:24
Speaker
actually that's not really true in wicker man i feel like right away he's like there are people having sex yes there's something weird here but i feel like in midsummer it is more of like a slow burn of like something is not right but you do know pretty immediately yeah well you i think they accept immediately there are going to be rituals and things that they don't understand and they really like show that like even it's like clear they're wearing american clothes and you know everyone else is not uh they're in they're very like swedish um
00:24:51
Speaker
What's that word? Ceremonial outfits, if you will. And it's clear they don't understand the culture, they're sitting at the wrong times, they're standing at the wrong times, but they're listening and they're extremely open. And there's like an open line of communication between both parties.
00:25:10
Speaker
I was just gonna say, even though they do start out differently, there is like a similar theme of it starting off with like a traumatic thing. Absolutely. Even though, you know, Dani in Midsummer is not necessarily like going to figure out what happened, but it is like that sort of like, she kind of pulls her into. Yeah, she goes through a big tragedy and her and her boyfriend who are on the rocks,
00:25:34
Speaker
Are traveling there and so she is really like trying she is going through something already Yeah, and she is trying to like rediscover what life is gonna be now and But yeah, definitely I hadn't really thought about that, but they do both start out with like
00:25:50
Speaker
a trauma of some sort. Right. Some other just similarities that are sort of like what Felicia was talking about with folk horror as well, where they have these like creepy rituals that include most of the time a lot of sex stuff. Or violence. Or violence. There's maybe some mind altering drugs like that weird burning hand. Oh yes, there's definitely mind altering drugs in mid summer. In mid summer for sure, but in Wicker Man
00:26:18
Speaker
i feel like even that scene with the the girl seducing him through the bedroom wall like something funky and that's interesting yeah it's not about that connection but yeah flower headdresses it's true um so
00:26:35
Speaker
Oh I will say the other thing that we discussed with Wigerman where he's so outraged and angry but everyone's kind of greeting him with like everything is fine like what are you talking about like that sort of thing definitely carries over to Midsummer where you know as soon as like they're I think like the first two like random people who go missing or maybe it's the girl that goes missing first.
00:26:55
Speaker
Uh, it's the guy first. The guy first. Yeah. She's like, wow, would you leave me? He would never leave me. Exactly. Yeah. So like they're, they're so angry. And again, like the community's like, Oh, they just went to the store. Like, Oh, it's everything's fine. Um, but they have like these kind of like chilling, friendly attitudes, even while these like horrific things are happening. Yeah. And
00:27:19
Speaker
this other sort of theme of like isolation that we were talking about with folklore where the protagonists are in a community where they are the outsider, they're separated from everyone and it's similar to like you know being in the middle of the woods in a cabin where it's like that does make it easier for horror to happen. Yeah and I think in both of these like in terms of them being isolated like
00:27:41
Speaker
He in wicker man I think he talks about like it would take him like a week to get home and back to like bringing it back up if you will You know Danny is halfway across the world with no family no one No one else to turn to other than her boyfriend that they're not getting along with that's next to her Who's just terrible? But yeah, it's like they're both just like stranded. Yes. Yeah, I
00:28:05
Speaker
The next thing I was gonna say the two communities have which I feel like now is also just like kind of a pagan Thing but they have a sort of similar outlook on death where in the wicker man You know, they see the dead rabbit and he claims it's like her other form
00:28:23
Speaker
So they believe in reincarnation or being, you know, transferred into nature somehow. And in midsummer, the community believes that the dead are not actually dead, but they live on in nature or other members of the community that have their same name, which I totally forgot. Oh yeah. Isn't that weird? I forgot about that too.
00:28:42
Speaker
I was like, what if you have a really common name? Got a lot of souls inside of you. That is interesting. Yeah, but it is definitely a thing of death being a continuation of life versus a very Christian version of death is the end of this life and then you will go to heaven or hell or whatever. But that's the end of your time on earth where in these other religions, it's all like a circle. Right. Yeah. Which I like. I like that too.
00:29:11
Speaker
We're pagans. Yeah, we're pagans now. They both sort of focus on, this is also folklore, the like power of mass belief where like this whole community believes this whole, you know, has the same sense of
00:29:27
Speaker
Morals and skewed whatever and really blind belief. Yeah, which is like the cult aspect of it. Yes Which I always find so fascinating like some of my favorite like true crime stories are like cult stuff just because
00:29:42
Speaker
it's always amazing to me the lack of questioning that's going on. It's like, and these particular, like all these kids that you see in Midsummer Working Man, like they're born into this, right? They're not being brainwashed or anything, or I mean guess maybe in a way it is, but it's like if you're born into it, like you have the belief of your parents and your family, your community. And it's like there is no question of like, is this the way?
00:30:07
Speaker
But I don't know about Wicker Man because I don't know if they go into this part of their culture. But in midsummer
Cult Beliefs and Audience Reactions
00:30:14
Speaker
you do have where at a certain age you are supposed to go out into the world and experience things. Which isn't that also a thing in like Amish culture? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Those TLC shows, right? I don't know. I'm sorry. You're saying those like Amish people in New York TV shows? No. Should I watch that?
00:30:32
Speaker
Let's just see what that's called. Is there a trailer? Breaking Amish. Breaking Amish? Yeah. So they get a cell phone? Oh, but actually, never mind. That's them breaking away from being Amish. So very different. Oh, that's different. That is different. But yeah. But there is something about that. But I don't know if that's a thing in Wicker Man. It doesn't seem to be. No. It seemed like they just kind of stay there. They stay there. Yeah. So then the final. Is it final?
00:31:00
Speaker
I think it's kind of final. The final similarity that I want to talk about is the ending, because it feels very dead on to me. We're like, yes. And the wicker man, the police sergeant goes into this giant wicker man statue, along with other animals. And the villagers, like, kind of sing around it, right? Do they sing? Wait, I'm sorry. They surround it, the villagers. Yes, yes. Surround the wicker man and sing? Yes, and they're swaying. Yeah. It doesn't look like the Grinch. It's smiling. Yes, it does look like the Grinch. Oh my god, it's definitely, like,
00:31:34
Speaker
Sorry? She's a singer. Where did that happen? Um, but in Midsummer, Danny's boyfriend is put in a disemboweled bear and then placed in the temple along with sacrifices and set ablaze as the villagers like scream. Yes. They wail on the outside except for Danny who is like
00:31:55
Speaker
Wailing at first and then smiling. Sort of smiling. She likes it. Oh, are we doing differences in like a separate part? Yeah. Okay. Soon. Great. That's the next section. But I just want to say this is the Nick Cage movie. Okay. Is that Nick Cage disguises himself in a bear costume for the ritual.
00:32:16
Speaker
What? So Midsummer was looking at the Wicker Man remake. Yes. Yeah. I love the idea of Ari Aster looking to the remake of Wicker Man for inspiration. That is hilarious. What kind of animal do we put them in? Oh, that's sweet. Oh, Nicholas Cage looks so good in it. It's got to be something with pagan cultures and I'm sorry for being offensive, but I did notice that. That's very, very funny. So now, differences. You want to go? Should I keep going? Mine are not going to be in the right order, I'm assuming.
00:32:44
Speaker
I don't know, there's no order. Okay, I'll talk. The first thing that I feel like I really noticed is while there is a similarity in the openness about sexuality in both of these culty places, it definitely seems that Midsummer seems to have a very different view around violence.
00:33:07
Speaker
yeah whereas wicker man there's not really any violence in wicker man like it does there's a lot of wicker man that almost doesn't feel like a horror movie until the end yeah sort of feels like a crime yeah drama thriller i don't even know um because you don't there's not a lot of like blood blood
00:33:25
Speaker
Yeah, pop out scares. Exactly. It's also not like, it doesn't, well, keep going. It is fine. But in Midsummer, yeah, there's a lot of real horror moments of not even just in terms of cycle of life stuff, but also in terms of how they're sacrificing people and all those things. It seems to be a lot more colorful, I'll say. Yes, yes.
00:33:50
Speaker
And like the opening scene in Midsomer, like that first trauma that she experienced is very like gross looking. It's brutal. And intense. So I was going to say like the biggest difference I found that we actually have talked about a little bit along the way, and I didn't think we were going to as much, but is that, you know, the police sergeant dies because, you know, maybe he's so stuck in his way or he's not like accepting of the culture.
00:34:15
Speaker
where like Dani fully embraces that culture and kind of becomes the queen. I mean, she is the May queen, but like sort of becomes like the queen of her surroundings where she's like the most of this world. Absolutely. She like releases into it. Yeah. And loses her old self, you know. She burdens her boyfriend a lot. It's true. And it really, I think it's an interesting thing where
00:34:41
Speaker
It seems like, so the Wicker Man, they're really drawing this person in literally for this sacrifice. They say at some point it's better to have a full adult man or whatever. There really is negative intention there. Even though it's positive intention for the group, it's negative intention for this one person.
00:35:02
Speaker
And in midsummer, it really feels more like bringing people in to actually become a part of the cult versus just to die. Because they all die.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah, but I don't think they necessarily mean for that to happen. I feel like can't tell. Because some of them I think die, like I think that one couple dies because they want to leave. Right. I think that another character dies because he disgraces a very important tree. Like there's things that happen. Oh, the other guy like looks at the secret book. Like I feel like they do wrong. You're right. You're right. Yeah. I actually am literally realizing this as I'm saying it for the first time. I never thought about this before.
00:35:44
Speaker
She's having an epiphany. I wish I had said it in my review a million months ago. Now go back and watch her review a million months ago. But it's interesting that it's like they want different kinds of blood to come in because they also I think they talk about the fact that there's like these really detailed charts to make sure that they don't have like too much incest unless it's intentional incest.
00:36:07
Speaker
We don't like it. No incesture. So yeah, they need new people to come in. And they want people, and this is like the cult thing, it's like the...
00:36:18
Speaker
Manson Family thing, it's of all cults where it's like you bring in people that are really vulnerable and very susceptible to the teachings because they need something really badly. Like they need a home or they need friendship, they need family, they need these things which are truly the basic human needs and so it makes sense.
00:36:40
Speaker
But people can easily take advantage of it. I would say Danny is she start she enters this place at the most vulnerable state imaginable yeah, and that seems to you I Pelé is like
00:36:51
Speaker
You have to come. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I always have wondered when you were talking about, I was like, I wonder if he knows she's like gonna be the May, May queen. I don't know. I guess not. Cause I guess you have to win. Yeah. And I wonder if like outsiders have won before or if this is like a very new thing. And even when I was watching it back, I was like, do they just let her win? But it goes on for so long. It does. It does. I don't know. Hard to know. I want to be the May queen. I know. Right? So many flowers.
00:37:19
Speaker
Um, I also, uh, we forgot to talk about as a similarity, the horror movie in daylight. Oh yes. That was on here. I saw it. I just forgot to say it. Um, but yes, both of these are horror movies that have a lot of daylight scenes and a lot of, of the horror, the scary things happen while the sun is still out. Um, which
Concluding Thoughts and Audience Engagement
00:37:40
Speaker
is scary. And it's, I think it's much more so in midsummer. Yes. I was going to say, I feel like there are like night scenes.
00:37:47
Speaker
in Wickerman? Yeah. I think there are. Definitely. It's also like a gloomier... I think they filmed it in like the fall or something. Like it's a gloomier time of year. It's not so like... Maybe Scotland versus Sweden. I don't know. I don't know. I think Scotland's probably rainy. It feels like London and rainy. I don't know. I don't know. We haven't been there. We haven't been there. But in Midsummer it definitely feels more intentional to be this really bright, bright movie. Yes. Yes. That's that.
00:38:17
Speaker
um oh this is what i was gonna say earlier when you're talking about like feeling is that like midsummer feels more like a traditional horror movie to me where like there are there like my theater when i saw midsummer was like laughing a lot right yes where it's like wicker man i did not feel except a couple times with like his like little children yes but like just because it's dated and less about like the
00:38:40
Speaker
director wants me to laugh here. Absolutely. Where like Midsummer there's so many more times that you like are just like this is ridiculous. I also feel like and this is very fine to me because a lot of people I read a lot of comments about this when the movie first came out where people were like everyone had very different theater going experiences I will say and so some people were very angry at the fact that people laughed a lot during Midsummer
00:39:06
Speaker
I laughed a lot during Midsommar to be clear and I am a horror movie fanatic and so it but it really even like during the sex scene that I know it's like very serious it's it's outrageous so it's like yeah it's sort of this thing where it's like I'm not even laughing cuz it's funny I'm laughing cuz I'm it's it's so shocked it's so like I'm like what like I'm right I don't know
00:39:29
Speaker
Which is like what I kind of felt like heredityary was like lacking, so. Right, totally, totally, totally. It was like mid-summer. There was like more space. Let's you laugh. Yeah. But Bookerman, I will say, definitely feels a little bit more like, like kind of lenient, be like, what? Even though there are like weird shocking things, like them being like teaching kids about like phallic imagery and things like that, like that, but maybe because it's dated, it doesn't feel that way to me. But maybe when it first came out, it felt that way. I'm not sure. But it does feel like, and it feels very like real.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah. Or like trying to be grounded in realism. Totally. Where like midsummer is real but like there's so many things that you're just like that would never happen that way. Yeah, yeah.
00:40:06
Speaker
Um, but we talked about, we talked about this mostly, but Wicker Man feels much more about the clash of religions. I feel where Midsommar is less about the specific religions. Like no one talks about or none of the Americans talk about their religions, right? Not really. I don't think it ever really comes up or like any of their belief systems. Right. And even, even like, I feel like they in Midsommar, I forgot this until I was researching this, but the people take turns writing the sacred texts.
00:40:36
Speaker
in the community. Really? I thought it was just like a fact. Yeah, but I guess because he hasn't been the prophet forever. Oh, right. It's like whoever the new prophet is. So it's written by many people. Right. Yes, yes, yes. And not just like a deity. That's true. That's which is like in the in Wicker Man. They're all you know, they're worshiping. Yes, they're following one thing. Yeah. That is a good point. I think that's all I had to say.
00:41:02
Speaker
I also really, even though I don't think about it much in Midsummer, it's funny because the marketing of Midsummer was so much about the deformed incest guy that is sort of their profit or whatever, or intentional profit. I don't know exactly how to say it. Even though he's not a big plot point and it's something I actually enjoy was the fact that his writings were
00:41:26
Speaker
paintings and then they had to be like interpreted. I just thought that was really interesting. And I can't remember now, Wicker Man, is there a sacred text or is it just like tradition of songs and things like that? It doesn't feel like anybody's like studying a book. Yeah, like I can't remember like there's not like a church.
00:41:47
Speaker
No, I also don't know anything. I don't know a lot about like, like, how did they learn about their paganism? Is it like there were schools just through these other activities? Is it Tom? I'm assuming it's like a mix of all of it. Yeah, I don't know. It's something else that I think is interesting as like a difference between the two is Wicker Man. They seem to be a little bit more
00:42:14
Speaker
capitalized, like what am I trying to say? Like there are businesses, there are bars, there are candy stores, there are these things versus Midsorf is like everyone does everything. And it's much more like a communal, like farming. No contact with outside world.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah, no contact with outside world. They're not trading or they're not exporting things. Like yeah, like to wicker and they're exporting their produce. And it seems, I mean, maybe this is just me not watching closely enough, but it felt to me like they were much more like outsiders come in and out.
00:42:49
Speaker
Right, I think instead of like that was like mid-summer was like, okay. These people are coming this time of year and that's it Yeah, yeah, and I actually forgot about how worker man. He was certain so I was listening to a podcast about it today, but it's like The reason he finds out about this little girl's missing is he gets like an anonymous letter. Yeah, and he just goes Yeah, like he doesn't like
00:43:12
Speaker
call or do any research or anything he just like gets a tip basically and then just goes by himself yeah which i think is very strange i also wonder like how they like picked him yeah well that's what i was like i wonder if they sent 30 letters and he was just the only one that showed up that would be very funny it's like mamma mia but yeah only one person is that maybe it um maybe
00:43:39
Speaker
I have not been exposed to a lot of folk horror movies. Me neither. I'm excited to look into it more. Yes. So if you guys have folk horror recommendations, please put them down in the comments. Yes. Literally, to tell the truth, my horror movie club
00:43:57
Speaker
They, everyone out there is so much smarter than me to be like so real. Like every week they give me like 20 movies to watch. And I'm just like, oh my God. She watches one. I try so hard. But it is true. Like I want to know more full core movies. I know we did mention a couple here. We mentioned Witchfinder General, Blood on Satan's Claws. But if you guys do any more, especially any that came out more recently. Yeah. Anytime past like the eighties, I would be curious about, cause it feels like these three are the unholy trinity.
00:44:27
Speaker
are like really collected in like the 60s, 70s. And I'm like, did this sub-genre just like go away for a while? Like I don't really know the history of it. But maybe you do, so let us know. Let us know. All right, I think that's it. All right, we will see you later. See you later. And have some sweet, sweet nightmares. There we go. Bye. Bye.