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S1 E11: Being A Black Woman In America And Abroad, DEI, Policing And Founding ACTIV-ISM With Kira West
75 Plays1 year ago
In today’s episode I talk to Kira West, @bykwest. Kira is a Brooklyn born content creator, runner and writer with a passion for making wellness more inclusive.
We Talk About…
- Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI)
- Wellness and Fitness Industry
- Racism and Marginalization
- Personal Growth and Self-Care
- Advocacy Work and Impact of ACTIV-ISM
- Educational Background and Experiences
- Founding of Sanity Miles
- Work-Life Balance and Societal Change
- Experiences of Racism
Resources:
- Follow @bykwest
- ACTIV-ISM E Book: https://www.activ-ism.com/get-active
- Full episode transcription and citations: https://www.taylorraealmonte.com/on-the-outside-podcast
Keep In Touch:
- Visit taylorraealmonte.com
- Instagram @taylorraealmonte
- TikTok @itstaylorraealmonte
- YouTube /@TaylorRaeAlmonte
This episode is supported by the University Life Social Justice Mini-Grant Program. To learn more about the Social Justice Mini-Grant Program visit: https://universitylife.columbia.edu/social-justice-mini-grant-program.
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Transcript
Introduction and Excitement for Season Finale
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome back. It's another episode of On the Outside.
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome back to the podcast. My name's Taylor Rae, and this is on the outside.
Guest Introductions and Activism
00:00:27
Speaker
I'm very excited for today's episode, and I'm also in so much shock that we are in our final weeks of the season. I have Kira West on today's episode. I have Taran Nicholas on next week's episode, and that is it, friends.
00:00:43
Speaker
for season one i cannot believe it so i feel like we should just jump right in i've talked a little bit about the company that i co-founded with kira called activism i did a solo episode about that and we reference our company throughout the show so if you haven't listened to that it's a really quick solo episode so you can definitely give that a listen after this one
00:01:06
Speaker
In today's episode, I talk to Kira West.
Kira West: Wellness, Diversity, and Inclusion
00:01:10
Speaker
Kira West is a Brooklyn-born content creator, runner, and writer with a passion for making wellness more inclusive. She believes that wellness, on a basic level, should be a right for everyone and not an exclusive privilege. Upon defining wellness for herself, Kira naturally began to delve into the lack of diversity and inclusion within this space.
00:01:29
Speaker
As she began to cultivate a community, Kira began to dig more deeply into the lack of support systems and inherent racism at play, which perpetuated health challenges for marginalized groups. Kira has been featured in multiple publications, such as Yahoo, Insider, and E!, for her contributions to change within the fitness industry. Most recently, she was featured in the cover story for Self Magazine, where she discussed what it means to be Black in fitness along me.
00:01:58
Speaker
In this episode, we discuss working in diversity, equity, and inclusion, or DEI roles, being a black woman in America and abroad, making time for self-reflection and self-care, founding activism, and abolishing America's prisons along with so much more.
Childhood Memories and Feeling Like an Outsider
00:02:20
Speaker
Let's start it out by hearing about a time where Kira felt like she was an outsider.
00:02:25
Speaker
So it's funny because when I thought about stories, there were so many that came to mind, but there's one consistent theme throughout my childhood that I think really primed me for being the only one in a lot of spaces as an adult. And so while there are a lot of examples as an adult where
00:02:44
Speaker
I was the only black person in the room or maybe the only woman. I don't necessarily look at those as times when I felt like an outsider because I was already kind of used to that, which is unfortunate in a lot of ways. But I think that really drove me to want to make more change. So I counted as as a blessing in some ways. But when I think back to my childhood, there's a super simple example that always comes to mind. And so I'm allergic to egg. And I remember when I would have birthday parties
00:03:11
Speaker
in my school classrooms, everyone else would have cake. And because the vegan options like 25 years ago were not iconic, I would have like chips. And so I definitely felt like an outsider because it's like, dang, you know, I'm five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. Everyone is eating cake. And I have like the bag that my parents gave me. And like, I couldn't have cake. So
00:03:38
Speaker
I feel like that's the most distinct memory that comes to mind when I think about when I felt like I was on the outside. And I feel like sometimes it's so serious, but for me, it's just no cake. Let's get into our conversation.
Travel, Transformation, and Identity
00:03:57
Speaker
I am currently in Chicago, but even though I pay rent here, I'm rarely here. I'm always on a plane. My husband, I just got married. He came home yesterday. I was there. Yes, you were. And it was iconic. What a time. And I cannot wait for more life to come. But we were talking about how if you break down the amount of flights we've taken, we've taken more flights than weeks in a year.
00:04:22
Speaker
which is wild to think about between work and life and wedding and all the things. So yeah, I love to travel personally. It's also just a huge part of what I like to talk about on my platforms. I just got married, which is epic, iconic, you were there. And I'm really in a big season of transformation. So going into 2024, I mean, most people are reflecting going into this
00:04:48
Speaker
next year, I'm really thinking about, you know, who I want to be, how I want to show up, and what I want that to look like. I'm really always have recently gotten more into my yoga practice. I've really been loving hot yen. But yeah, I'm trying to like slow down and find more moments of mindfulness and balance. So that's me.
00:05:09
Speaker
While Kira intentionally shared a more lighthearted story in our intro, she definitely expressed a lot of other ways that she's been made to feel like an outsider.
00:05:19
Speaker
I mean, sharing that example, saying that as an adult, there have been many spaces that you've maybe not felt like an outsider, but maybe been the only one. And I feel like you've also worded it like that. Like I've heard you word it like that before that you're like in a space and you're the only one, you're the only black woman or the only person of color or the only whatever fell in the blank. So as an adult, do you feel like, I mean, in
00:05:44
Speaker
I know as well from like even in content creator spaces, like influencer events, stuff like that. A lot of times I feel like I'm the only one. We've also talked so much about feeling like we're the only one in those spaces. But how do you feel like you show up and maybe don't feel like an outsider, but both? Just like what is that experience like? What are the positive aspects, but what are the negative aspects? What weighs on you? What do you feel like you're maybe even numb to at this point?
Navigating Predominantly White Spaces
00:06:10
Speaker
That's such a great question. So to take it back really quickly, I went to pretty diverse like middle and high schools. And I didn't really realize when I got to college how much I had shifted into being
00:06:26
Speaker
in predominantly white spaces for a lot of the time. So I went to Cornell University, amazing Ivy League education, but they are not known for diversity when it comes to representation on campus. And so I'm really grateful that I found amazing mentors and had some really great friends that I made throughout my time there. But my time at Cornell and in college, which was challenging in many ways,
00:06:50
Speaker
and traumatizing in some for sure I think made me a lot more numb or just a lot more aware of how to be successful in those spaces which I'm grateful for going into my professional career. So I will say at this point in my life and even before you know we had all of our conversations on what this meant and even before I realized the power in acknowledging that fact and then figuring out how I could pry and hold the door open for others
00:07:15
Speaker
I wasn't as connected to the feelings behind it. It was just kind of a fact that I had gotten used to. I think in terms of adult life, with all of that context shared, there are now spaces where I notice I'm the only one. And instead of being as frustrated by it or as annoyed by it, I am focused a lot more on what I can do to change it. In the beginning, I definitely think coming out of college, I just thought, OK, this is the real world.
00:07:45
Speaker
It's normal, like this is what it is. But now I'm like, oh, there's a power to continue to change the systems that create that. And that little by little through conversation or through just making it a point to make different choices, I can be a part of shifting things. So it does weigh on me. I mean, it happens to me in my professional life.
00:08:06
Speaker
where I'm the only one. And I also have risen my hand to have conversations around difficult things like inclusivity within my workplace. So that can be challenging, but it's something that I enjoy and really feel uniquely positioned to do. It happens, as you mentioned, within the content creation space.
00:08:23
Speaker
So there are so many times where I am one person and you know it's real when you look at the picture and you're the only one that looks like you. I think again you know now there's more effort and I put more onus on the brands and companies that I work with to think differently so I don't find myself in that situation as much.
00:08:44
Speaker
Yeah, but it definitely does
Identity Shift and Personal Growth Practices
00:08:46
Speaker
weigh on you. And I think I've also released myself of a lot of the expectation I put on when I first started in content creation or first started in my career to be the only change or to be the change all the time. Because I think after a while that got exhausting.
00:09:01
Speaker
Kira has been a content creator, full-time corporate girly, marathon runner, and entrepreneur as long as I've known her. Being a runner has been a huge part of her identity for the last few years, but she shares how she's also been prioritizing other forms of movement.
00:09:16
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I didn't know you were getting more into yoga practice. In my mind, you're just like Kira, she runs all the time. Yeah, I mean, it's funny, I've been training pretty much always on for the past two to three years. I was off, but it was never because I like wanted to take a break. There was some life trauma that I was dealing with. And so this is the first time I've been able to have the freedom and flexibility to like really try new things. And I've always struggled with yoga, showing up for myself and
00:09:45
Speaker
meeting myself where I'm at and not being good at something is really difficult. Yeah, I feel that.
00:09:52
Speaker
I feel that. But I'm on the road to not being a perfectionist and yoga is one of the places where I push myself to show up and just be in the moment and like give what I've got. Hot in also is like a slower, like more stretchy practice and so I found that it pairs really well with the other things that I like to do.
Challenges Faced by Black Women in America
00:10:14
Speaker
And it's getting cool outside or it is freezing already. So it's nice to be warm.
00:10:20
Speaker
A very famous Malcolm X quote that you might have seen or read that I truly think about so often says, the most disrespected person in America is the black woman. The most unprotected person in America is the black woman. The most neglected person in America is the black woman.
00:10:39
Speaker
And I just want to share with you some recent statistics about what it's like being a black woman in America. Black women are two to six times more likely to die from complications of pregnancy than white women. Black women are also almost four times more likely to die during or in the first year after pregnancy than white women.
00:11:03
Speaker
Companies led by Black women receive less than 1% of all venture capital funding.
00:11:12
Speaker
Black women over the age of 20 in the United States have the highest unemployment rates than other groups of women and higher rates of unemployment than black men. Even though compared to black men, for example, black women are more likely to earn degrees, actually 64% more likely to receive a bachelor's degree and almost 72% more likely to receive a master's degree.
00:11:40
Speaker
Black women disproportionately experience homelessness, making up 27% of the unhoused population while only representing about 7.5% of the United States population. Black women are made to feel that they must be two times better than those around them
00:11:59
Speaker
to get half as much. They must work harder, be smarter, and excel in ways that others simply do not have to in order to just be noticed. Kiera and I both suffer from perfectionist tendencies. And honestly, with statistics like this, it's no wonder. Whenever I am talking about my perfectionist tendencies, I'm like, but someday I think I'm going to get there. Like, someday I will be perfect. And he's like,
00:12:27
Speaker
Well, let's keep talking about this. So I can't even say I'm a recovering perfectionist. I'm still aspiring for my perfectionist.
Perfectionism and Self-Reflection
00:12:37
Speaker
I mean, I say it, but I think about like the ways in which I still don't give myself grace to step away from that. But I think to kind of go back right to being on the outside, there's an exercise that I sometimes do when I'm giving inclusive trainings. I talk about inclusivity in the context of marketing pretty frequently.
00:12:55
Speaker
in my work life. And these are conversations that I've also had with brands as a content creator. But I talk about a time when people felt not included. I use different words, but the examples can vary. So mine was about a dietary restriction. Some of them are heavier. They're about race, ethnicity, body type, you know, different types of things. But at the same time, like everyone can think of an example when they didn't feel included, even if it was as simple as like not being invited to a party. And so it's almost a universal truth. And I think within that,
00:13:25
Speaker
like allows you to think about how you can give yourself more grace and so I'm trying to like be on that journey. So I say recovering perfectionist lightly because I'm still working on it but you know that's at least my aspiration. I asked Kira how she shows up for herself. I know that you've been thinking a lot about how you want to show up differently in your life, how you want to make more space and more time. You mentioned giving yourself more grace. What does that look like for you?
00:13:54
Speaker
I am still trying to figure it all out. So I will caveat this with saying like, I'm still really a work in progress. And maybe if you ask me in like three weeks, once I've had like a really good long break, finally, I might have a more evolved answer. But for now, I think I really reflect back on why I started sanity miles. So I was starting to get really involved in running and I found myself being so tied to like time, distance and metrics. And you'll know,
00:14:20
Speaker
Honestly, if you've done anything for a really long period of time, running is just one of the many examples that there are always points where progress is not going to be linear and it's not going to be achieved in the milestones that you might have initially been looking at. And so for me, I was looking at my runs in this really like type A metric focused way and it just wasn't serving me and it was ruining my love of the sport. And so I took a step back
00:14:49
Speaker
I did the 4-4-48 challenge which is a David Goggins challenge where you run four miles every four hours for 48 hours and I added journaling onto it and so I was dedicating my runs. This was the way I was processing grief. I was processing a really big change in my life and so through that I realized the power of like intentionality, mindfulness, like going into it with giving myself grace so there's no way that you're going to run
00:15:16
Speaker
the same way on your last four mile segment as you did in the first four mile segment and so slowing down in that first four mile segment like helps you out later and there was just a lot that I like tactically worked through and so I kicked off sanity miles which is basically a mindful tool for running I've got some products out there I've done some really great challenges and we'll see what what's next with that work but
00:15:37
Speaker
where I am in my life now I reflect on that but at scale. So looking at my entire life right which sounds I guess to your point a little bit dramatic but when I look at my entire life I'm thinking about how can I take another look at the metrics
00:15:54
Speaker
that I've been zeroing in on and think about, are those the right metrics for success? What other metrics can I look at? So instead of measuring myself by how many things I check off of a to-do list, what if I thought about the amount of quality time I spend with my husband or the amount of time that I dedicate to rest, which is something I really struggle with?
00:16:13
Speaker
And then I think I also do this thing that's not really, really realistic where I'm like, Oh, I'll make time for it at some point. Or, you know, I have a false sense that somehow I'll be able to sneak it into my priority list or make time for it. But I haven't planned for that. Like I've planned for everything else. And then I wonder why months pass by and it hasn't happened.
00:16:33
Speaker
So a part of what I want to do is be more proactive with creating space. So that might mean blocking my personal calendar. That might mean also blocking my work calendar. If I know between 9 and 9.30 a.m., that's when I am at my best time to do something, then let me be proactive.
00:16:50
Speaker
and scheduling around that versus them trying to schedule on top of and move things. So those are some of the things that I'm doing. I'm also being really intentional and then thinking about outside of performance related things and outside of like metrics that
00:17:05
Speaker
Can sometimes be really hard to achieve? What can I do to set myself up for success next year? And what measurements can I put in place that help me achieve goals around things like rest and balance and wellness? And how can I create space for the things that I've prioritized?
Balancing Life and Defining Success
00:17:22
Speaker
I think some of the voice notes that I sent you, and if you are friends with me,
00:17:26
Speaker
No, I love a good voice and that's honestly what's been saving some of my friendships for the last several months. Crazy. But I think what I shared with you is the initial like realization that I need to prioritize I need to like write things down and I can't have a full plate.
00:17:43
Speaker
I'm expect to have room to put things on it. I need to really take a look at what's on the plate. I need to eat things. I need to throw them out. I need to recycle them. I need to do whatever I need to do to like set that up for success. And so I kind of have done the initial exercise and now it's like tactically, how do I maintain that balance and how do I really live that?
00:18:01
Speaker
We continued by talking about what success looks like for Kira. You know, I define success through impact. And I thought a lot about where can I maximize my impact? And we do all have a finite amount of time in the day, in the week, in the year. And so I think when it comes to making space and making time, a lot of it is about prioritization. And at this stage of my adulthood, I think I have the privilege of thinking about
00:18:27
Speaker
what's most important to me and my family unit at this moment, and how do we prioritize with that in mind? We don't yet have kids, and there are lots of complexities that come down the line that make it a lot harder, but I think we now have a lot of control over where we're at in life. I think we've earned some of that, but to your point, thinking about where is it best for me to spend my time?
00:18:51
Speaker
knowing that it's finite. There was a piece of advice that I heard in a podcast or read in a book, I can't remember which one, but it was like, you can do it all just not at the same time or not all at once. And that's what I've been thinking about. So because of that, where do I want to put my time? So to your point, you're like, after evaluating, which is definitely a privilege, this is where I want to give my time because
00:19:13
Speaker
you know, you intrinsically have thought about it a lot or you know, you see different value versus like kind of what other people might see. In 2014, Shonda Rhimes gave the commencement speech for Dartmouth University. I heard her speak about it later on a podcast and what she said really stayed with me. Shonda, how do you do it all? The answer is this, I don't.
00:19:35
Speaker
Whenever you see me somewhere succeeding in one area of my life, that almost certainly means I am failing in another area of my life. If I'm killing it on a script for scandal, for work, I am probably missing bath and story time at home.
00:19:51
Speaker
If I am home sewing my kids' Halloween costumes, I am probably blowing off a rewrite I was supposed to turn in. If I am accepting a prestigious award, I am missing my baby's first swim lesson. If I am at my daughter's debut in her school musical, I am missing Sandra Oh's last scene ever being filmed at Grey's Anatomy.
00:20:09
Speaker
If I am succeeding at one, I am inevitably failing at the other. That is the trade-off. That is the Faustian bargain one makes with the devil that comes with being a powerful working woman who is also a powerful mother. You never feel 100% okay. You never get your sea legs. You are always a little nauseous. Something is always lost. Something is always missing. And yet, I want my daughters to see me and know me as a woman who works. I want that example set for them.
00:20:39
Speaker
I like how proud they are when they come to my office and know that they come to Shondaland. There is a land that is named after their mother. In their world, mothers run companies. In their world, mothers own Thursday nights. In their world, mothers work. And I am a better mother for it.
00:20:59
Speaker
I mentioned this speech to Kira when discussing how balance is found within our lives and how sometimes it's never found. We went on to discuss that and more of our work in DEI.
Creating Safe Spaces and Support Systems in DEI
00:21:11
Speaker
How do you bring yourself to that work and make it a safe space for you? Because when you're working on, even you were saying if you're leading like a training through talking about diversity and inclusion practices, how do you come to that work to make it a safe space for you? Because as someone that's part of a marginalized groups or even multiple marginalized groups as a woman, as a person of color, as a black woman, all these intersections of your identity, how do you bring yourself to this work?
00:21:40
Speaker
That's a tough one. I think first and foremost, therapy is really impactful and important. Having a space to be able to discuss the challenges of needing to show up is important and being supported in that. And that's something that I dedicate time to solo. I dedicate time to with my husband. And I want to continue making sure that I have as a part of my regular schedule. So I would say that's one is user resources and having support is really important.
00:22:09
Speaker
We love therapy. Yes, I think in addition to that too, like, you know, your network and your village are so important. And so like, we have lots of conversations on like boundaries and like supporting each other and a lot of this work. And I have a lot of friends who have different vantage points, but also offer similar support. And I think that's really important. So those are a couple of things. But honestly, I'm still really working on it. It has become so much more of my life. And you'll probably resonate with this over the past couple of years.
00:22:39
Speaker
I was a lot more passive in terms of how I was having inclusive conversations, or a lot more small in thinking of what I thought was possible several years ago. And I think now as the kids are saying the Lulu, is this the Lulu or whatever they're saying?
00:22:56
Speaker
But I feel like I really believe that I can be a part of making grand change and that in a really small way, I can contribute to changing the world more broadly, whether that be through my community through content, whether that be through sanity emails and making people who didn't feel like they could run or didn't have something to celebrate, feel like they have that thing, or whether that even be through my full-time work, which I've become increasingly more invested and involved in. I think those are
00:23:26
Speaker
the things that make it worth it, but I'm still really figuring out how I can protect myself, protect my mental health, and create better boundaries. And I think that's one of the pieces of transformation is this work takes a lot of thought, it takes a lot of energy, and it takes a lot of yourself when you are a part of marginalized communities. And so that means I need more rest, I need more space to think,
00:23:51
Speaker
talking so much about these kinds of things and having conversations all the time. It really helps being in a grad program where we're constantly talking about things that are really tough or things that feel really vulnerable or things that are really
00:24:10
Speaker
little bit more complicated that you wouldn't really have these conversations every day with just a friend because there's a lot of historical context but we've all done the same reading in class so we can like start from you know base level we all have a lot of information on a topic that really has helped me when I when a family member comes up to me and is like hey this is happening in the world can you tell me about it I
00:24:33
Speaker
find that so easily I'm like, yeah, I can, would love to, would love to talk to you about this because I don't really get to talk to people all the time. Like my classes are only an hour and a half and I'm like, girl, I have so much more than I wanted to say about this thing. So now in real life, when Richard's like,
00:24:50
Speaker
Oh, can you tell me about this? I'm like, I would love to. I have so much that I could say about this. So I think for me, talking and having practice talking, which I mean, we've talked about this so much, just having topics, having conversations about hard topics.
Language in Activism and Meditation through Movement
00:25:07
Speaker
We wrote an e-book about it. So that will be in the show notes if you want to buy it.
00:25:11
Speaker
But having conversations makes it a lot less of a mental load for me, because when I have them, I think, oh, I'm practicing for the next one. And I think that helps me a lot. Kira and I founded activism in 2020, and I have a whole solo episode that goes more into our story of how and why we did that.
00:25:33
Speaker
I think one thing that we talk about a lot in the context of activism that we haven't even delved into in our conversation here yet is having the right language. So I'm so grateful for all the work we've done, all the research I've done, all the spaces I've been in to learn. But having the words to be able to talk about these topics are what a lot of people are lacking. And it seems very simple and fundamental, but being able to have that as a foundation
00:25:58
Speaker
is really impactful and I do think because I have had so many of these conversations I now don't feel the same fear, anxiety, pressure as I did in the beginning and you do look at it a little bit more like a practice round. I think one thing we've talked about too is I don't engage in conversations I don't think are going to be productive so there's only a certain level of depth I'll get into if I'm in a situation that's
00:26:24
Speaker
just not going in a productive direction. I hate to use the word hostile, because I feel like that's really not it. But on social, if I'm chatting with somebody who is really coming from a different viewpoint and not willing to see other sides or see other perspectives, and for me, that's not really worth the energy. And I think that's something that you might have shared with me really early on in this work, is before you get into a conversation, that grounding is important. And then one of the other core tenets that was the reason why we founded activism was
00:26:53
Speaker
movement. And so while running when I was so focused on the metrics and details kind of took the love out of the sport for me. When I run and I'm trying to think through like a complex issue or challenge or approach to something or problem I'm facing, and I use the time to like meditate, chew on it,
00:27:12
Speaker
kind of dissect it and then put it back together. I find that fully productive. I, you know, have started to just do different workouts at different times in the day for different reasons. So I show up for myself in the morning and moving in the morning helps me to set the day up for success. And now I've found that doing something at night, whether that's my yoga practice, whether that's Lagru Pilates class, doing something at the end of the day to help me separate and unwind has been really helpful.
00:27:40
Speaker
And so I think leaning into movement in a way that helps you to process the challenges can be really impactful as well. We continue the conversation by talking more about how we got into the work that we do. I had started my anti-racism education newsletter a few months maybe before we started activism, but that was, you know, I was writing all of my thoughts down and that was very different than
00:28:07
Speaker
Virtually getting up in front of a hundred people and sharing my perspective on something. So it was very impactful for me as well. And I totally agree that that was a huge moment where I found my voice and really found the I mean, it's just so it's really powerful in a way that goes beyond describe description when
00:28:33
Speaker
People feel really connected to what you're talking
Finding Voice Through Activism
00:28:35
Speaker
about. They feel really seen. They learn something new. It's really transformative for them. Being a part of that was so special and definitely impacted my life after that. So I'm glad that we did that. Go us. Go little baby Kira and Taylor. Kira also shared more about her story. I studied American Inequality Studies at Cornell, created a major around it.
00:28:59
Speaker
did a lot of work around inequity when I worked with nonprofits and NGOs early in my career, showing them the power of digital marketing when we were just dealing with Facebook and Instagram before Tech Jack was even a thought. And so it wasn't the first time, but I do feel like it was the first time that I really made that statement and came at it from the educator's point of view, where it was like leading the conversation versus just participating in it.
00:29:24
Speaker
I will say, and we have talked a lot about this, but not necessarily in this space, 2020 was a transformational year for me. I went into it with the goal of finding my voice and I didn't know what exactly that would look like.
00:29:40
Speaker
where exactly that would come to life. But I did find it and I think a part of what I realize is I'm uniquely positioned in some of these spaces where I've been able to get my foot in the door to open the door really wide and make sure that other people that look like me, or just that look differently from the people that are in the room already have access.
00:29:58
Speaker
And so with that being said, activism is one of the ways I think we use our voices collectively to create change. And I think that was one of the first times I had used my voice in that way. And it definitely was a part of a really big change in my life in terms of helping me to feel like I had the tools to be able to do a lot of the work that I do now from a corporate perspective at my full-time job or even to hold brands and companies accountable for my community.
00:30:27
Speaker
been to share some of my vulnerable experiences. I didn't share the one that I actually shared at the beginning of the Black Lives Matter movement, which is probably because it's quite traumatizing and maybe not as quick as my cupcake versus chips. But I think sharing that story and really talking about, you know, experiences that I had never really spoken about before was a huge part of my change.
Global Racism and Systemic Change
00:30:55
Speaker
After checking in with Kira, she decided to share more about her experience in Australia, which we briefly mentioned earlier. Yes. So I'll give the context that I could never study abroad in college, but I was really passionate about being able to travel abroad. And so I ended up doing a lot of work and like internships abroad. I would call them internships a bit loosely, but I had proposed to an organization in Australia because I really wanted to go.
00:31:21
Speaker
between one semester and the next winter break, I was going to go and work for the Kokoda Track Foundation, which is a nonprofit that serves Papua New Guinea. And I was there alone. I really wonder what my parents must have thought when I was like, yeah, guys, I have no money, but lend me this 900 bucks. I promise I'll get it back from Cornell. And I want to go do this work experience for four to six weeks in Australia over winter break.
00:31:47
Speaker
I don't know anyone out there, but like promise I'll be fine. And I was maybe 20, 20 at the time, because I hadn't even turned 21 yet. So I'm in Australia. This was maybe like the middle to the end of my trip. And I walked around like I took the train and Australia is pretty safe.
00:32:06
Speaker
Overall, I was going home, I think from going to a mall or I had gone to run some errand. So I was waiting on a bus stop and a man who we believe was on some sort of drug started yelling like obscenities at me. And it was the first time that I felt
00:32:27
Speaker
Black before I felt American, which was very interesting. And it was funny because I remember him yelling that I was a Black, C-U-N-T from the third world. And I'm from America. So it's first of all, it's not the third world. Second of all, you don't know me. You don't know my story. You don't know who I am.
00:32:50
Speaker
And so it was really interesting that it was like, wow, you see me and you've passed that judgment without knowing anything. At this point, I was like almost to getting a Cornell degree. It's like all these things about myself that were irrelevant to this man. And what was very scary was like he was really yelling like at me. And I didn't really know what to do in those situations. A lot of times we think, oh, I'm going to clap back. I'm going to have such a reaction. But at 20 years old in a country where I didn't know anyone, I didn't even know like
00:33:21
Speaker
where the nearest police station was, I'm like, I don't know how to handle this. And so I'm standing at the bus stop pretty frozen. He continues yelling a bunch of other things that was the one that stuck. And I'll never forget, like I was waiting for the bus to come just like praying that this bus came as quickly as possible. He spat on me at one point, which I think is just one of the most degrading things someone can do. It's also disgusting.
00:33:45
Speaker
in general and there was this like small scrawny like white guy that was like you can't talk to her like that he like got in between us and like started to stick up for me and i don't know if i felt any better until the bus came i got on it and i was like out of the situation
00:34:02
Speaker
But I'm like, wow, I appreciated that he was like, I'm not going to stand by and watch like a lot of people do in those types of situations. And there's tons of books you can read about bystander effects. And there's a whole psychology behind it. But I was like, I appreciate that whether or not he could have actually like, thought this guy or physically defended me, he was like, I don't feel like this is right. And I'm going to say something.
00:34:22
Speaker
I really appreciated. So that was like the net net of the story. It was the first time I think my parents felt like, wow, my dad was like, I ended up telling my parents and I think it was the first time he really felt like I can't protect her. She's out in the world and I just have to trust that she has the tools to make the right decisions on how to handle situations. So I'm sure that was scary for him.
00:34:45
Speaker
I was fine like physically unharmed. It was more just like emotionally shattering and I remember going back to the Airbnb that I booked in a shared apartment with Glenn and his wife and I came back and I ended up crying. At this point I had been staying with them for like
00:35:03
Speaker
maybe two to three weeks like we knew each other and when you're when you're living with people um you definitely share the common spaces and whatnot and so they were like what's wrong what's happening and without even knowing it they were just such incredible allies they were like that's not right we're taking the to the police station and drove me there and we're like we're gonna make sure you're okay like
00:35:25
Speaker
And it was beautiful because they didn't know me before I came to say at their Airbnb for four to six weeks. And I don't even know if they thought about it. We talked about it afterward after I posted it. And I don't think they thought about it as we're being allies. They're just like, you know, we don't believe this is right. You know, and as people, they empathize with me. And so, yeah, they took me to the police station. It was the whole thing. I submitted my shirt for evidence, like we made a whole report, but it really stuck
00:35:53
Speaker
by me that they, as soon as they found out, we're like, Oh, no, like, we have to support you in this. And it was really special. So that's the story. There's more detail. I probably shared more vividly back then. But the point was, if you see something, say something. Yeah.
00:36:12
Speaker
And it's interesting how people will perceive you, especially in other places in the world, and how that can get conflated with some of the negative stereotypes that we have. Personally, none of it was true. But I'm also just like, it's very sad that that's how you see people that look like me.
00:36:31
Speaker
If I was someone from Africa who had just moved It doesn't make me any less of a person. It doesn't mean that you spitting on me is okay So lots of lots of thoughts I think came out of it But that was the experience definitely a tough one a lot longer of a story and I think the first time I Felt othered in a way that felt like it could be harmful to my being but definitely not something that is unheard of throughout the world not unheard of and
00:37:01
Speaker
in the US and a reminder that racism is real and we need to change people's understandings of the world. And yeah, it's funny because a lot of people were like, oh, well, that must mean you didn't love Australia or you would never go back. I'm like, oh no, it was one of my favorite places I've ever been. It didn't change my love of the trip or the incredible people that I met. It was just an experience that I had. And I have traveled enough to know that that's not
00:37:30
Speaker
the Australian experience. I shared about an experience my husband Richard and I had on the subway platform in Brooklyn when we were called racial slurs and had a box cutter pulled out on us in 2020.
00:37:44
Speaker
it was coming right out of the pandemic also. So I was already feeling, I mean, I've been taking the subway since I was a child, because I grew up not far from the city. You grew up in the actual city. Very jealous of you, because you know I didn't. But I have been doing the subway my whole life, like love the subway, love that for me, best way to travel. But I
00:38:04
Speaker
hadn't taken it in almost a year because of the pandemic. Probably not a year. It's probably less than that. But it felt like forever because we were in lockdown, etc, etc. One of the first times that we took the train, we had someone come up to me and Richard with a box cutter, like yelling names at us. And that was wild to your point that happened to me in Brooklyn, right? It's not necessarily that in
00:38:27
Speaker
going to dictate how you feel about a specific place in the world because, unfortunately, racism exists everywhere. Racism is not even an American problem. Racism is everywhere, whether you want to call it racism or colorism, depending on where you are in the world. And it's unfortunate, but it is true. And I've had friends from other countries be like, we don't have that problem here. I'm like, no, girl, you do. You do.
00:38:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's interesting because especially in Australia, it looks different. In America, we have systems at play. A lot of them are surrounded by conversations around race. But to your point, there are so many different systems of oppression. Ava DuVernay's film, Origin, is incredible. I was able to screen it
00:39:18
Speaker
a couple of months ago and it made a huge impact on me. As you think about connecting those systems, racism, classism, and like just the systems of oppression throughout history, it's fascinating when you look at what they have in common and what connects them. So for me, it's interesting because I didn't look at that as like, oh, I'm never gonna travel again or like I'm never gonna come back to Australia. I was like, this could happen anywhere. It happened to me here in this context, but to your point, I could be in Brooklyn or I could be out in Chicago.
00:39:46
Speaker
And it just is a sign that there's still work to be done, which is kind of how I now see that. I wanted to finish the episode asking Kira a challenging question, which I don't think either of us has the answer to.
Abolition and Envisioning Alternatives
00:40:00
Speaker
She mentioned in her retelling of her experience in Australia, contacting the police, and as a very vocal abolitionist, I knew I wanted to get into that a little bit.
00:40:09
Speaker
Would she do the same thing now, years later? Would I, Taylor, make the same choice? What options do we have when, systemically, there are not many solutions to issues like violence, mental health emergencies, familial crises, domestic disputes concerning disturbances?
00:40:27
Speaker
Police were not trained to deal with most of our problems, but we only have the option of calling them when there's an issue. Until we have a system that allows for widely available solutions, it's hard to know what else we might be able to do. I wanted to talk about that a little more with Kira.
00:40:44
Speaker
I have many thoughts and I feel this could be probably a podcast and conversation all its own because there's so many intertwined systems that lead us to the shortcut of the police. But I agree with you. What if there were other resources? What if the systems were set up differently? I don't think Abolition has like, let's just open the doors and let everyone know.
00:41:09
Speaker
But a lot of people do when they hear that word, they're like, oh my gosh, that's crazy. You're just going to let everyone out. And that is listeners. That's not what abolition is. Thankfully, I'm going to have two solo episodes that specifically talk about abolition and mass incarceration. And so I will give more of my context and kind of take on that, but continue.
00:41:33
Speaker
I do see how people in the world could think that though. And I think part of it stems back to just, and I will say because this could be a very long conversation, I'm gonna trim this down to like simplified US context. I think the way that we as a society value those who work within the social space and like the sector of people that serve the community and how undervalued that is here in like a very capitalist society.
00:42:00
Speaker
contributes to some of the challenges that we have as a result of that. I think we would need to really look at how we're upending and shifting a lot of systems for that to work, which is the challenge. If we were to truly create change, we would have to fundamentally change some massive archaic systems. And unfortunately, in the US, with this grounding of capitalism, I think that's really hard.
00:42:28
Speaker
the prison industrial complex and prisons making money is gonna be really hard to wrestle with if you then say like, we're a society that really cares about values and people versus being like, we're a society that cares about money and operates that way. Unfortunately, in the US, I think we sometimes forget that reality. I have been consistently disappointed with
00:42:54
Speaker
how much we've gone backward it feels on a lot of progress we have made to shifting these systems. But I think it's a great question to ask around what could we be doing differently? And I think in my example, or like there are some situations where you're like, okay, I'm in danger. I don't know enough to be able to categorize this, but in a lot of situations you do. And with that categorization, you still are like, okay, the police are the option versus like,
00:43:22
Speaker
someone that's more specialized, mental health is a massive problem. And we kind of lump that in one category that gets handled by people who are not professionals in, you know, being able to support that specifically, that's going to create more challenges to your point, addiction, right? Like has mental health implications, but has a completely different set of like circumstances and challenges. And we don't necessarily have professionals that we're valuing highly enough who can support that work.
00:43:52
Speaker
So it's really tough. I think, you know, I also take a second to recognize where you have bigger expertise and to take the opportunity to learn. But fundamentally, I think our values are pretty aligned, which is part of what we figured out really early on in our friendship as we were working through some of these things. And it's kind of cool to reflect back on that.
Conclusion and Farewell
00:44:22
Speaker
Okay friends, as always, thank you so much for being here. You can follow Kira West at buykwest on social. As always, a full transcription of the episode along with citations can be found on my website. All of those links are available in the show notes along with some of the resources that we shared today. A link to our ebook for our company Activism and just more about us will be there as well.
00:44:52
Speaker
Friends, thank you for listening, for learning with me. This has been such an incredible first season. See you out there. We only got one week left.