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Family Chat: Being An Afro-Latina With My Cousin, Shailyn Tirado
52 Plays1 year ago
In this episode, I talk to my cousin, Shailyn Tirado, about Blackness as an Afro-Latina, and more specifically, in our Dominican culture.
We Talk About…
- Being Afro-Latina
- Colorism
- Being Dominican
- Distinctions between race and ethnicity
- The role of platforms in anti-racism education
- The influence of colonialism, and African ancestry on self-identification
Resources:
- Follow @sugarshai
- Full episode transcription and citations: https://www.taylorraealmonte.com/on-the-outside-podcast
Keep In Touch:
- Visit taylorraealmonte.com
- Instagram @taylorraealmonte
- TikTok @itstaylorraealmonte
- YouTube /@TaylorRaeAlmonte
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.
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Transcript
Introduction and Show Structure
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome back. This is another family chat on On The Outside.
00:00:19
Speaker
All right, we are back. We have another family chat this week. And friends, this is one of two final family chats. I don't have one for our final week, that final week of the season, which is gonna be week 12. I just have an interview and I have my solo little full season recap episode.
00:00:41
Speaker
So this is it. We got Shailene for two weeks and two more iconic family chats coming at you.
Meet Shailene: The Guest
00:00:49
Speaker
Shailene is honestly just so much fun and I am so excited that she is on the pod for this conversation. So let's get into it.
00:01:03
Speaker
Okay, so we are here. We have another family chat this week and we are with my cousin. Can I say my favorite cousin? I feel like our other cousins are going to listen to this and they would not love that. But top Myspace top eight favorite cousin. Shailene is here. So tell the people who you are. Hi friends. My name is Shailene.
Shailene's Background: Afro-Latina Identity
00:01:25
Speaker
I am a 35 year old
00:01:27
Speaker
Afro-Latina, currently living in Minneapolis, Minnesota, where I work as a research director for a legal and financial services organization, where I've spent the greater part of probably close to a decade now. I have got two degrees under my belt, a BA and an MA, both in legal studies
00:01:52
Speaker
and law and governance respectively. And that's primarily because I had law school aspirations many, many moons ago, but that is no longer the case. And I thought that Charlene was a lawyer or worked in a law office for so long. She was like, I'm a research director because every single time I see her, I'm like, are you a lawyer? And she's like, still no, that is not what I do. But I do know your job.
00:02:17
Speaker
I remember it. It's in my heart. It's in my mind. I know this for sure. Well, I'm so happy that you're here. I'm so glad that you're on the pod and you're my final family chat guest. You're it. I'm honored. You're the culmination of the family. I had my mom, or I had Richard the first week, then I had my mom for like three weeks, then I had Richard again, then I had Talia and I'm finishing off strong with you.
00:02:42
Speaker
I love that. And I've learned so much from the ones you've had already. So hopefully you've listened to them. Yes, of course. I'm your big fan. Hello. And it's so funny when we were at grandpa's birthday, it was his 94th or 95th? 95th milestone. 95th, our grandpa's birthday.
00:03:00
Speaker
All the family was coming up to me and my mom and they were like, oh, we listened to your podcast episode. Uncle Hector listened to it. I was like dying. I was like, this is amazing. That's adorable. Now you're listening to my podcast. So cute. I love that. I love family support. I feel like that's I feel like that's pivotal. Plus I like seeing like our family's little names on your Instagram likes. Oh, yeah. Support each other. Yes.
Complexity of Afro-Latina Identity
00:03:22
Speaker
I think this is a perfect segue because in today's episode we're getting into a little bit of like our family experience being I also identify as an Afro-Latina which I like said before I think I feel most comfortable with that like if I have to label myself that is how I feel most comfortable I do
00:03:42
Speaker
feel, I was just talking to Talia about this, not on the podcast, but like in normal life about like, because Talia is Dominican and Argentinian, but she's like, some people say she's white passing, though she doesn't necessarily see that of herself. And then she also feels like more than anything, I'm a Latina, but I can't just like, that's not a race. So I feel very just like conflicted and kind of similarly, like I, I feel like
00:04:12
Speaker
so much of my childhood, I was like confused about what my race was. And then in my adulthood, I very much was like, okay, I'm accepting my blackness, I'm taking that in, I'm learning about it, I'm embracing it. But then I was also simultaneously told like, no, but you're not really because you're Puerto Rican and Dominican. So Afro-Latina feels like the most comfortable to me, but like, how do you feel about that?
Journey with Self-Identification
00:04:38
Speaker
I will say it's been a journey for me. I haven't always felt the same way throughout my life. I've had a lot of very challenging experiences with self-identification. I think it ranged from being very young and
00:04:57
Speaker
realizing that I was and am significantly darker than most of our family. And when I say, when I speak about our family, obviously your dad and my mom are siblings, so it would be that side of the family. And so whenever we would collectively get together, I always paid attention to that other aspect of myself, which was that I was always darker in the cousin
00:05:24
Speaker
group picture. And even though I will say that's something that I kind of took on on my own, because I wasn't made to feel like an other. Like I don't think from our from our uncles or anyone in our family, I don't think it was ever something like, oh, she's darker than everyone else. Yeah, like people were making comments about it. Right, right. But it was just something that was just so obvious. And I want to say that that maybe that's a plight that a lot of dark skinned women perhaps experience.
00:05:54
Speaker
through life and educational settings. Honestly, the list can go on and on, but I do feel that I would agree with you in that when the term Afro-Latina
00:06:06
Speaker
came to be more in the mainstream, I was very much like, exactly, that's me, that is verbatim or what I identify with and where I feel most comfortable speaking about my identity.
HR Challenges and Racial Identification
00:06:19
Speaker
Because even to this day, even with certain self-identification portals that I have at work, for example, it'll ask me my race, but then in parentheses, it'll always say, not Hispanic. And I'm like, no, and Hispanic, it's both. So why are you making me choose
00:06:35
Speaker
And yeah, there's been a lot of HR conversations centered around getting those things amended, you know, but yeah. Yeah, the specific like black, not Hispanic, I'm always like, oh my gosh, relax. I'm like, okay, all right, why are you yelling at me? Exactly. And every listing or every identifier will always say in parentheses, not Hispanic, like it'll say Pacific Islander, not Hispanic. Not Hispanic, yeah. And I'm like, why are we separating? What's going on? It's an ethnicity, not a race.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, I wrote a newsletter so long ago, like three years ago, about why that is. And I actually don't remember. So anyone listening to this, if you want to know why that is, you can find my newsletter on my website. I actually can't remember in the moment. There's like a reason based on the census and based on like, it was specifically talking about like Mexican populations wanting the distinction on the US census. But I actually can't remember like the full history of it.
00:07:34
Speaker
But yeah, very weird. And I agree that Afro Latina feels the most...
Family Diversity and Racial Identity
00:07:42
Speaker
Yeah. When I found that term, I was like, okay, that's me. Right. A hundred percent. A hundred percent.
00:07:48
Speaker
So within our family, I feel like we have people that look so many different ways. Like when we were at grandpa's birthday, I think that was the first time in a while that like everyone has been there. Like there was a couple of cousins that weren't there, but like a lot of the family was there. And like, we all have so many different hair textures, which, you know, hair is like a big thing for me. And so many different skin tones. I think,
00:08:15
Speaker
I was definitely told by my dad primarily that I was not black, explicitly, when I was a kid. We are not black, but people will see us as black.
00:08:31
Speaker
and racism is super real and you're gonna experience it, but it's because people don't really know that you're not black, you're Dominican, which is different. And so when people would say that I was black, like kids in school and stuff, I was like, you're actually wrong.
00:08:50
Speaker
And that made me super confused and like going on. I mean, shout out to my dad for having like an emotional, mental, spiritual, like reevaluation around like 2021 and being like, Oh my gosh, I'm black. Like love that for him. Love that journey. But I was very much, which is like super, a lot of Dominicans say that they're not black.
00:09:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's a whole other ballgame, if we're honest, because I think context is important too, because the times that we are in now are absolutely not the times that we were growing up in. So even having the kind of conversations around I'm not Black, I'm Dominican, like that's a meme in and of itself nowadays, because that's historically how a lot of people would respond.
Dominican Pride vs. Racial Identity
00:09:33
Speaker
And it was mainly because I, and this is kind of how I feel about it. And I've read some literature around it as well, which is that, um,
00:09:41
Speaker
for a lot of Latin countries, the nationality is the pride component. Whereas for a lot of
00:09:52
Speaker
you know, U.S.-based folks that are raised here, it's the race that is the leading identifier. And so I think, I mean, I've had people on my dad's side of the family, on our side of the family, both say like, oh, I'm not Black, I'm Dominican. And throughout life, similar to Uncle Ray, to your dad, it's been people kind of having a coming to Jesus moment of being like, hold on,
00:10:17
Speaker
I am, multiple things can be true, right? I am Dominican and I am black because let's be honest, there are Dominicans that are not black, but they have African roots. And I think the context and how we describe certain things matters. I'm a big proponent of words matter.
00:10:35
Speaker
And so even if you someone who is born in the Dominican Republic, but is white passing they exist, you know, there are folks who have green eyes and very, very fair complexions and burn in the sun, but are born and raised in Dominican Republic and they are a culmination of, you know, colonialism of imperialism of, you know, and, and, but the roots still trace back to Africa. So there is a component of,
00:11:02
Speaker
having African ancestry, but maybe not necessarily being a Black person. So I think it's such a layered conversation. Yeah, 100%. I felt so because
00:11:18
Speaker
One thing that made me super uncomfortable at one point was when I started speaking up more and more and really using my platform to talk about anti-racism education. This is like 2020.
Struggle with Societal Labels
00:11:27
Speaker
This is very brand new to me. And I had this girl in my DMs be like,
00:11:33
Speaker
I don't even know if I've ever told you this, but she was like, you're not black. I would never want my little sisters to look at someone like you and see that as someone aspirational because you're a Puerto Rican. You're not a black woman. And for you to be like, you know, talking about this, your face looks so mad right now. You're ready to fight someone.
00:11:53
Speaker
She was like for you to be like talking about this like sure you could be and What's most insane is this girl spoke on a panel for my company that I have with Kira activism She spoke on a panel with us. That was how I met her like she spoke on a panel for my company That's how she knew me my anti-racism company, which that is what it is called She's that's how she met me and she was like, but you can't refer to yourself as a black woman because you're not and I was like
00:12:22
Speaker
for so long people said I was black and I said I wasn't and now I'm saying I'm black and people are saying I'm not and I was like what am I like what is going on like I was freaking out I was like this is so scary and I had such a you know not that I necessarily needed to like be validated in my identity but I had such a validating experience in I read this entire book for a class about the Haitian Revolution and it talks a lot about
00:12:49
Speaker
the way in which slaves were brought over and where they were brought, and more slaves were brought to the island of Dominica than the US colonies at the time. More slaves were brought to the Caribbean than were brought to mainland North America. And I was like, this is so interesting because I feel like there's such a narrative about
00:13:14
Speaker
what constitutes blackness in the United States, like who is black and who gets to be black when you may not look a certain way. And what this girl said in my DMs, which was the funniest part, is she was like, I knew right away when I saw your hair that you weren't black.
00:13:29
Speaker
I was like, you mean this weave that's on my head? Because if there's one thing that is the most black about me, it is my hair. Like, you're literally so confused. Like, this is a weave, girly. That was when I was doing my long weave. So I was like, you're so confused. Like, what? So, yeah, that was like, really? Oh, my gosh. Thinking about it, my palms are sweating. It was such a stressful moment. I mean, it's it's it's stressful to hear it just because obviously, you know how overprotective I am of you. And so after we wrap this up, I want you to point her out to me.
00:13:57
Speaker
But I think, I don't know, for some reason, there's just this incessant gatekeeping of like the, quote unquote, oppression Olympics of like who gets to be one or the other. And it's really like we all started off at the same location, we were dropped off in different places. That's why the largest population of black people outside of Africa is Brazil.
00:14:18
Speaker
that's Latin America. You know what I mean? It's not even U.S. You said I read the literature, girls. Absolutely. I know it. Yeah. And it's unfortunate that there are folks who feel the need to police it in that way because no one knows what you've gone through. No one knows what your experience is. And I think for you, at least, it's highlighted even more because you grew up in a predominantly white town, space, school.
00:14:47
Speaker
where you were made to feel like another. And so you were faced with, you know, addressing these, um, questions about self-identification much younger than a lot of us. I grew up in a very diverse town. Like there were people that looked like me or not, or like there's people from every corner of the world where I went to school in the town that I grew up in and a lot of Spanish speaking
00:15:13
Speaker
Black people and vice versa. And it's just, yeah, you had to kind of address it head on at an age where maybe you didn't have all the tools. For sure. For someone as an adult who met you through your platform to then spin that around and tell you what you are not is kind of comical to me. And when she said, I would never want my little sisters to look up to you.
00:15:41
Speaker
This is so unnecessary. This is so unnecessary. What girl? You're literally speaking so mean to me for no reason. I'm older than you and I look up to you. I love you. I look up to you, you little freaking cutie. And it was during Black History Month, I did a Black History Month class and raised money for an organization and that's what I had posted. And she was like, I would never want my sister to look up to you with this. I was like, I'm upset.
00:16:11
Speaker
maybe talk about because I think it centers our Afro-Latinidad and at the same time just this
00:16:21
Speaker
habit, I think that it's... Again, I can't speak for other cultures, but I know it's absolutely in Latin culture and definitely in Dominican culture, where we will give sort of endearing nicknames to people based off of physical descriptors, right? Everybody knows a flaca or a bordo, or for me, growing up, my parents, to this day, and I have it tattooed on my foot, my parents have always called me Morena.
Cultural Nicknames and Identity
00:16:47
Speaker
And it's something that only as I grew up was I like, why is my nickname about my race? And or based off of the nature of what I look like, because my sister is probably closer to your complexion than to mine, doesn't have a nickname like that.
00:17:09
Speaker
But my brother does, they call my brother, at least my dad does, he'll call my brother Moreno. And growing up, I always thought it was just very sweet. I was like, I just love that whenever I hear that phrase or that name, I know it's my parents calling me. It's my mom and my dad calling me.
00:17:29
Speaker
And it's always come from a place of love, like, even when I call them to this day and night, and then they answer the phone, that's kind of what they'll say, hi, Morena. And that's just always what it is. When they text me, my mom will say, Morena. And I hear it in her voice. But it was something that only after I went to get it tattooed on my foot that the tattoo artist was like, what does this mean? And I was like,
00:17:55
Speaker
black. It technically means either dark skinned or dark hair. But I knew what it meant for me, towards me. And I spent a lot of time thinking about that, especially after, as he was tattooing it, I was like, why am I getting this? And then I remember being like, is this
00:18:18
Speaker
Is this what I want to be? Do I want to continue to be identified this way? Do I want it on my body? Have I thought this through?
00:18:32
Speaker
23 when I got that tattoo. So I was an adult legally, but maybe not mentally, but it was just something that I never really questioned until someone outside of the safe space kind of asked me what it meant. And in that moment, me being confronted with, why has my family been calling me an endearing term to them? But it's something that just continued to highlight
00:19:00
Speaker
this otherness that I already felt. Because at that age, even at 23, I was not comfortable with my skin tone, with what I looked like. I struggled a lot with that. Growing up, I never wanted to be in the sun. Whenever my friends made plans to go to the beach, I was always like, is anyone bringing an umbrella? I'm not trying to get darker. And I don't know where that came
Friendship and Identity Acceptance
00:19:22
Speaker
from. But I remember specifically saying to my friends, and I have many friends to this day, that even if I post a picture at the beach,
00:19:28
Speaker
they'll comment and they'll say like, wow, I remember when you hated the beach. Like I remember when you hated to be in the sun. And I think of you, yeah, I think of you as such a beach girl. Yeah. Like big time beach girlie. Yeah.
00:19:39
Speaker
But there was such a significant, I would say a majority of my life, I've spent it hiding away from the sun, not wanting to get darker, not wanting to contribute to this nickname that my family gave me. I just kind of wanted to separate myself from it. And I would say that probably having similar complexion, like one of my best friends, Francis,
00:20:08
Speaker
I always say to her that when I met her freshman year of high school, she was a major player in my self-acceptance because I saw someone else. She was born in Puerto Rico, raised in the Bronx, and very Afro-Latina, very similar upbringing to myself.
00:20:27
Speaker
through her through our friendship I've self-discovered what I love about what we look like and me seeing it and being like I love my friend and I think she's stunning and I think people that look like her are stunning so that was I was able to reconnect with me through my friendship with her and Yeah, and that's why even growing up, you know, everybody wanted to be Beyonce I wanted to be Kelly Rowland like I always
00:20:51
Speaker
wanted to be Kelly Rowland to this day, you'll see me post on Instagram like I do. Yeah, because I'm like, that's who I saw. I was like, that's who I look like I was a very skinny girl with muscular arms, who was like, always
00:21:06
Speaker
like my friends were always like celebrated in terms of beauty. And I was just like the friend. And I was like, I kind of just, I don't want to, and I can't even say that I was comfortable or uncomfortable. I'm inclined to say I was uncomfortable because it's a staple in my memory. But it's just always
00:21:26
Speaker
Yeah, I was always like, no, I'm not the main girl. I'm the bestie. I'm the Kelly. And yeah, so I know that was kind of a cornucopia of life. I feel like I learned so much about you, honestly. And I'm thinking back, remembering. I mean, obviously, how much older than me?
00:21:49
Speaker
You're not the same age as my sister because you're younger than my sister. You're younger than your sister, yeah. Okay, so you're like four years older than me because I'm about to be 31. Because I just remember you being like the coolest ever, me being like when you said that you were like skinny with like muscular arms, I distinctly remember being like, wow, Shailene is so ripped when I was like,
00:22:12
Speaker
I don't even know in middle school when I started like thinking about like bodies because I think before then you really don't and I was actually so ripped like love that for her like when we'd go on vacations and I thought you were so cool I thought you were like 10 out of 10 and then when we got older and you were like my friend I was like oh my gosh yay we're friends now and here we are. That's probably like one of the best my like favorite parts of our
00:22:33
Speaker
because, yeah, I was like, me and your sister were like yin and yang, because obviously our age, you know, we were a year apart. Yeah, we were closer in age. And you were always like, oh, Taylor. She's going to tell on us or something. Tattle Taylor. Tattle Taylor, literally. And then the older you got, the more I continue to fall in love with you. And I'm like, I'm obsessed with her. She's my favorite. Thanks so much for listening, and thanks so much for being here. I will see you next week. See you out there.